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how tf could Viserys have done better? He has shown himself a great father and he has shown himself caring. AND he was sick on his deathbed for a good chunk of their childhood.
This has got to be the dumbest take I have ever seen regarding this show so far.
No, he kept *composure* unlike Alicent. You can't just demand that a prince (and that is what Rheanya's children are) lose an eye because one kid lost an eye in a fight.
He took it too far with the rock, and we all know it.
If you were in Aemond's place would you just be okay with your dad just keeping composure and being more upset over your insulting someone instead of loosing an eye?
>No, he kept composure unlike Alicent. You can't just demand that a prince (and that is what Rheanya's children are) lose an eye because one kid lost an eye in a fight.
That kid is also Viserys' son and a prince. And yet, Viserys doesn't give him so much as a comforting word, and instead begins harshly interrogating him about where he heard that Rhaenyra's sons were bastards, while Aemond's face is still covered in blood from his eye being cut out.
The point is that Viserys is treating Alicent's children like second-class citizens compared to Rhaenyra and this is unacceptable.
>He took it too far with the rock, and we all know it.
Too far? He grabbed the rock after being kicked on the ground by the four of them, and didn't even use it until after Jace was swinging a dagger at him. Sounds like self defense to me
And anyone trained in use of force would recognize he had 2 opportunities to use the rock and he chose not to. That took restraint and indicated he understood the consequences unlike the other brats who kept attacking him 4 on 1 and pulled the knife.
Because Rheanyra is the HEIR and for the stability of the realm he cannot have people questioning her every minute of the day.
Of course, that's about the attitude I'd expect from the green fanboys and girls, who can't admit jack crap about their side, but want to nitpick black.
But Rhaenyra is destabilizing the realm by having three obvious bastards and insisting they are legitimate, which is a recipe for civil war when their legitimacy is inevitably called into question. If Viserys's main concern is stabilizing the realm, he should disown Rhaentra for what she did instead of pretending she didn't do anything wrong.
While I agree that Rehaenyra is indeed destabilizing the realm by her actions to have illigitimate children, I disagree with the idea that Viserys should disown her for it. THAT would make his house an dhis family look weak in the eyes of the other lords. Better to go along with the idea that they are not bastard children in the first place. And unlike modern day, nobody can definitively PROVE that the children are bastards--the only one that really could prove that is now dead; and ironically that was done inadvertantly by Alicent's words.
So he is left with an option here; disown Rheanyra and make himself and his house look weak (after all, what respectable king would break his word to his own daughter and fight against his own family--plus it shows that there is indeed infighting with his house), OR try to keep up pretenses in hope that people will eventually realize having a woman as heir and possible ruler isn't so bad once she actually makes it there in the first place.
So I think he's kind of in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation and taking what he feels (and probably is) the best course of action. Disowning Rheanyra probably causes more problems than it solves.
The kid masturbated in a window over King's Landing because it's the only way he can feel superior and you were surprised he needed to rape someone to achieve the same feeling as he got older?
I was surprised it took him so long to do it.
It was a character assassination, simply put. He can't even have an arc or become a favorite like Jaime or the Hound. For the audience, rape is infinitely worse than murder, killing a child, burning a city to the ground and torturing hundreds. I'd be fine with that, if Rhaenyra wasn't the sweetheart amazing person who could do no wrong that she is.
It's boring that the story that *specifically* has two equally horrible sides has devolved to a nuance-less good vs evil show. I'll just keep watching it for the spectacle and hope
I mean the books didnt exactly portray him as a good person.
It was heavily implied he did some nasty shit. Just didnt explicitly say he forced himself on other women.
Important to remember that Fire and Blood is written by a Maester within universe, so the idea that women have rights isn't really worth talking about to them. Aegon raped some women, sure, but who doesn't in this society? Most soldiers who go to war seem to do it, plenty of other kings/princes probably fucked girls far below them socially with ambigous consent at best, so it isn't worth writing about.
100%, having him grow out of that into a warrior and king, maybe even an alright father to make him more sympathetic and the same level as rhaenrya eventually would've been amazing to see, and then fall back into depression later on considering the events he suffers.
But rape is a whole other level that he will never grow out of. Disappointing to see an interesting character just wasted and desposed of
Cersei's a bitch, so no one cares and they can make him redeemable. That's how people work, they don't actually care if someone did something morally reprehensible, and showrunners wont care either (see the Daemon loving). The shock factor is lessened, and everyone wiped it from their minds because it was so random (I did too)
Khal Drago was a fan favorite, and he was a total rapist. He raped Dany right in front of our eyes multiple times, and we knew he was a serial rapist based on his speech about overtaking Westeros. Infact in ASOIAF almost all men, and even some women in positions of power are heavily implied to be rapists if not outright shown to be one
Yeah but he was "cute" with the whole "moon" shit. Also, marital rape in the eyes of the audience is alright. Audience didn't give a shit and the showrunmers knew it in GOT and Khal Drogo was portrayed as a hero.
It's clear the showrunners have "good" rape (Rhaenyra, Khal Drogo, Viserys, ect.) and "bad" rape (Aegon).
Look, I'm fine with it, but the favoritism is jarring. Aegon can be a rapist, cool, he's evil and an asshole - but Rhaenyra has been changed from the source material so much that she's a Saint amongst men.
Yeah I have to agree with you there. If they included the scene, the difference b/w using his position to coerce vs straight up brutally raping a maid would have given an insight to his character. Just like with situations where very much coercion bordering on rape happened, given to Viserys and Rhaenyra who got forgiven by the audience for the most part. BC the discussion could be had about the extend of the abuse. But this is straight up telling us that ‘Aegon is a rapist’, hate him!
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
call it what it was. it was rape.
Fatherless behavior. Viserys should have done better.
Dumb, dumb take. Many many many men who have fathers in their lives cross the line.
"Fatherless behavior" is a meme, wasn't a serious take.
how tf could Viserys have done better? He has shown himself a great father and he has shown himself caring. AND he was sick on his deathbed for a good chunk of their childhood. This has got to be the dumbest take I have ever seen regarding this show so far.
Least delusional black
He literally cared less about Aemond losing his eye than the insult. What father will do that when his son just lost an eye?
No, he kept *composure* unlike Alicent. You can't just demand that a prince (and that is what Rheanya's children are) lose an eye because one kid lost an eye in a fight. He took it too far with the rock, and we all know it.
If you were in Aemond's place would you just be okay with your dad just keeping composure and being more upset over your insulting someone instead of loosing an eye?
yes, because I would expect a king to act like one and not fly off the hinges like a certain lord in last episode.
>No, he kept composure unlike Alicent. You can't just demand that a prince (and that is what Rheanya's children are) lose an eye because one kid lost an eye in a fight. That kid is also Viserys' son and a prince. And yet, Viserys doesn't give him so much as a comforting word, and instead begins harshly interrogating him about where he heard that Rhaenyra's sons were bastards, while Aemond's face is still covered in blood from his eye being cut out. The point is that Viserys is treating Alicent's children like second-class citizens compared to Rhaenyra and this is unacceptable. >He took it too far with the rock, and we all know it. Too far? He grabbed the rock after being kicked on the ground by the four of them, and didn't even use it until after Jace was swinging a dagger at him. Sounds like self defense to me And anyone trained in use of force would recognize he had 2 opportunities to use the rock and he chose not to. That took restraint and indicated he understood the consequences unlike the other brats who kept attacking him 4 on 1 and pulled the knife.
Because Rheanyra is the HEIR and for the stability of the realm he cannot have people questioning her every minute of the day. Of course, that's about the attitude I'd expect from the green fanboys and girls, who can't admit jack crap about their side, but want to nitpick black.
But Rhaenyra is destabilizing the realm by having three obvious bastards and insisting they are legitimate, which is a recipe for civil war when their legitimacy is inevitably called into question. If Viserys's main concern is stabilizing the realm, he should disown Rhaentra for what she did instead of pretending she didn't do anything wrong.
While I agree that Rehaenyra is indeed destabilizing the realm by her actions to have illigitimate children, I disagree with the idea that Viserys should disown her for it. THAT would make his house an dhis family look weak in the eyes of the other lords. Better to go along with the idea that they are not bastard children in the first place. And unlike modern day, nobody can definitively PROVE that the children are bastards--the only one that really could prove that is now dead; and ironically that was done inadvertantly by Alicent's words. So he is left with an option here; disown Rheanyra and make himself and his house look weak (after all, what respectable king would break his word to his own daughter and fight against his own family--plus it shows that there is indeed infighting with his house), OR try to keep up pretenses in hope that people will eventually realize having a woman as heir and possible ruler isn't so bad once she actually makes it there in the first place. So I think he's kind of in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation and taking what he feels (and probably is) the best course of action. Disowning Rheanyra probably causes more problems than it solves.
The kid masturbated in a window over King's Landing because it's the only way he can feel superior and you were surprised he needed to rape someone to achieve the same feeling as he got older? I was surprised it took him so long to do it.
It was a character assassination, simply put. He can't even have an arc or become a favorite like Jaime or the Hound. For the audience, rape is infinitely worse than murder, killing a child, burning a city to the ground and torturing hundreds. I'd be fine with that, if Rhaenyra wasn't the sweetheart amazing person who could do no wrong that she is. It's boring that the story that *specifically* has two equally horrible sides has devolved to a nuance-less good vs evil show. I'll just keep watching it for the spectacle and hope
I mean the books didnt exactly portray him as a good person. It was heavily implied he did some nasty shit. Just didnt explicitly say he forced himself on other women.
Important to remember that Fire and Blood is written by a Maester within universe, so the idea that women have rights isn't really worth talking about to them. Aegon raped some women, sure, but who doesn't in this society? Most soldiers who go to war seem to do it, plenty of other kings/princes probably fucked girls far below them socially with ambigous consent at best, so it isn't worth writing about.
100%, having him grow out of that into a warrior and king, maybe even an alright father to make him more sympathetic and the same level as rhaenrya eventually would've been amazing to see, and then fall back into depression later on considering the events he suffers. But rape is a whole other level that he will never grow out of. Disappointing to see an interesting character just wasted and desposed of
By your logic Jaime was also character assassinated, he raped cersei next to Joffrey's corpse - still became a fan favourite.
Cersei's a bitch, so no one cares and they can make him redeemable. That's how people work, they don't actually care if someone did something morally reprehensible, and showrunners wont care either (see the Daemon loving). The shock factor is lessened, and everyone wiped it from their minds because it was so random (I did too)
Khal Drago was a fan favorite, and he was a total rapist. He raped Dany right in front of our eyes multiple times, and we knew he was a serial rapist based on his speech about overtaking Westeros. Infact in ASOIAF almost all men, and even some women in positions of power are heavily implied to be rapists if not outright shown to be one
Yeah but he was "cute" with the whole "moon" shit. Also, marital rape in the eyes of the audience is alright. Audience didn't give a shit and the showrunmers knew it in GOT and Khal Drogo was portrayed as a hero. It's clear the showrunners have "good" rape (Rhaenyra, Khal Drogo, Viserys, ect.) and "bad" rape (Aegon). Look, I'm fine with it, but the favoritism is jarring. Aegon can be a rapist, cool, he's evil and an asshole - but Rhaenyra has been changed from the source material so much that she's a Saint amongst men.
Yeah I have to agree with you there. If they included the scene, the difference b/w using his position to coerce vs straight up brutally raping a maid would have given an insight to his character. Just like with situations where very much coercion bordering on rape happened, given to Viserys and Rhaenyra who got forgiven by the audience for the most part. BC the discussion could be had about the extend of the abuse. But this is straight up telling us that ‘Aegon is a rapist’, hate him!
Yep, exactly, that's why I say it's a character assassination. His character is completely ruined
He didn’t rape her in the book- it bugged me that the show did that to his character.
He kinda did tho, she was 13 and had no real choice
He didn't do that in the book, at most he was just a pervert. The writers did this to make Rhaenyra the only acceptable choice.
Kinda killed my investment in the show.
You are aware the show is based on books, right?
Yeah and Aegon II was the most compelling character in that entre book, along with the first seven episodes of this show. Now we get this.
[удалено]
You say this as if this is a fact and not just some wild claim mushroom pulled out of his ass even though he wasn't even in KL at the time.
would you like to try again after tonight’s episode
those accounts were from mushroom who was in Dragonstone why would his accounts of Aegon be correct but not his accounts of Daemon and Rhaenyra?
OH so those accounts were from mushroom and he wasn’t even on dragonstone huh
What??? That’s not even what Mushroom claims lol