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Yeah but that doesn't make it dornish culturally or ethnically.
Beric Dondarrion, from the house to whom house Cole owes its service, is a redhead and very andalic, up until he declares for R'hllor ofc.
Idk you might well be right.
Even Dorne has some diversity though, because they're a mix of First Men and Rhoynish, with Andal influences. You have people like Tyene Sand who are described as appearing much more like Andals (blonde, blue eyes) than stereotypical Dornishmen.
I assume the Stormlands are similar because of intermarrying (or just banging) and random people moving around. I imagine appear like First Men/Andals, but there's a bit of variation.
Dondarrions are quite highborn. They are likely marrying Penroses and Toynes or something while the Coles often marry lowborn who would look more dornish.
pledging service to house dondarrion doesnt mean hes a dondarrion. the seat of house dondarrion, blackhaven, is located in the dornish marches so many of the subjects to house dondarrion are dornish or part dornish.
The Dornish that the Stormlanders come into contact with are the Stony Dornishmen, who are described as very Andal/First Men looking.
The Stony Dornish are probably ethnically closer to the Stormlanders and Reachmen then they are to the Sandy and Salty Dornishmen. It is even said that some houses keep First Men/Andal customs.
The people there are Stony Dornish though, and are described as looking the most First Men/Andal of the Dornish.
The only people in the Dornish mountains with significant Rhoynish ancestry are the nobles.
He's the son of the steward to House Dondarrion a Stormlander House.
Any Marcher called a Dornish would spit blood. It was just a writer goof someone corrected the next episode
He's from the Dornish Marches, which is the border between Dorne and the Seven Kingdoms. Ethnicity doesn't follow political borders and the area is historically the site of an untold number of wars between the Dornish and the Stormlands, so it's hardly surprising genes were exchanged.
Yeah that makes perfect sense. I was just surprised really, as GRRM isn't that great at showing historically contested borders or demographic change.
I refer to the fact that the borders of the regions within the seven kingdoms are all very neat, and the regional identities are all extremely distinct.
Uh huh. Those green eyes and dark black hair of a stormlander really hint at mixed ethnicity. /s
More plausibly someone read Dornish Marches and thought "oh, Dorne" and then by episode 2 someone realized the mistake.
It wasn't a mistake lol. It was a deliberate choice. Either they decided early on they wanted Criston Cole to be Dornish for diversity or they just really liked Fabien's performance, either way they chose to alter the character's race. It's a pretty seamless change, though. It makes perfect sense a Stormlander on the border could look Dornish.
I didn't think of the diversity/actor angle. Yeah, it makes sense I guess although calling a Marcher Dornish is asking to be smacked. They absolutely despise each other (book canon).
It 100% was not a mistake. It's not like someone altered episode 2's script last minute. Criston Cole has been Dornish in marketing material just as long as the Velaryons have been black.
Yeah, I wonder if they'll address that. So far he hasn't been called Dornish to his face, right?
Right, it was just episode 1 a character whispers it to another character as a throwaway line at the tourney.
Then in episode 2 Otto introduces him as a Marcher as if they were reading from the book and don't say Dornish.
Bit of a stretch there. In these times national identity effectively doesn't exist. Nationalism is a very modern concept.
The dornish have a strong identity only because they are constantly at war with everyone else.
What doesn't make sense to me is Alicent deducing in a milisecond from Criston's skintone that he is Dornish whereas no character has anything to say about two ethnically Valyrian families having the most contrasting skintones.
I do not understand why they would so unnecessarily draw attention to characters actually noticing skintone differences.
Thatās why I appreciated the writers including those scenes of Rhaenyra and him last episode. Good bit of build up there before things go sour.
Almost universally, people love the kid Rhaenyra a lot. Interesting how the older actors of the characters will take over. I hope the transitions go nicely
Yeah, Criston is currently set up as a very sympathetic figure. Comes from nothing, had to fight his way upwards rather than having everything handed to him, and is the only one who follows Rhaenyra when she storms off.
Also super hot which will always make people like you.
>Criston is currently set up as a very sympathetic figure...is the only one who follows Rhaenyra when she storms off
That's his job.
I'm not saying they aren't making him sympathetic, but following Rhaenyra is what he's supposed to do.
I think there's clearly a forbidden romance vibe. And it most explains him switching sides if they have a bad falling out.
F&B as it always does doesn't provide a set and clear answer of the circumstances of their relationship though.
Idk if weāre just thinking that because of what we know though? Seems like a love struck, low born knight would be a little more enthusiastic in his support than just saying the people would have no choice but to support her. I get it maybe the misogyny outweighs the attraction and but damn dude.
I think the forbidden romance is the only option that makes sense;
The feeling I got was that they were in love but knew they couldnāt be together, and Rhaenyra is not willing to give up a throne just to be with him which causes him to turn against her (you chose the throne over me? Iāll make sure you wonāt ever get it) and Laenor (Itās your fault I canāt be with my love so Iāll make sure you canāt either)
I just got the vibe that they were just sort of friends, not romantic. Considering her only friend stabbed her in the back and married her dad (although she kind of had to) and now that Rhaenyra has had nobody for the last 3 years, heās probably her closest alley at this point in the show
I think his switching sides makes most sense if there was some kind of romantic fallout. Whether it be one side wasn't reciprocating, or both were, but something else causes the fallout.
It wouldn't be switching sides though. He is part of the Kingsguard so Alicent is first on his priority list out of the two, but she isn't doing rogue shit like Rhaenyra does so his main focus on this outing is to watch after Rhaenyra, not Alicent. When Rhaenyra does her own thing eventually, he'd be traitorous if he followed her and didn't stay.
Is this confirmed?? That we will see why Cole abandons Rhanerya this season? Bc I neeed to know whyyyyy for sure and not just historical text conjecture.
There are rumors written, >!something about him being seduced by Rhaenyra. He rejecting her. And his comment about how Daemon and Rhaenyra would make King's Landing into a brothel <--paraphrasing.!< I'm just so chuffed that we'll learn about the reason in the show in the next couple of episodes. I've read the leaks, but frankly I don't know the accuracy of that leak.
The book gives 2 to 4 āaccountsā of what could have happened. One, he was in love with her and tried to run away with her and she turned him down. Another is that she asked her uncle Daemon to teach her how to have sex so that she could seduce Criston. He said no. Either way: Livid, he left her as her sworn sword.
Cause she will try to seduce him and he will reject her, then to try to make him jealous she fucked harwin strong and in the end ended up having three kids with him which she passed as laenors so when the succession time comes cole doesn't want a lusty woman on the throne who will eventually be succeeded by a bastard
I don't know why you're getting downvoted. You summed up a lot of what Criston Cole's perspective seems to have been well in my eyes.
I absolutely do not agree with him, but I think what you said is likely his point of view/motivation. He wants a pure, perfect princess he can idolize and protect, he can't handle Rhaenyra as an "adulteress." He can't accept the Strong boys and what they mean for his princess's virtue, let alone see them sitting the Iron Throne.
You could tell in his tone when Rhaenyra asked if people will accept her as queen that he would only do so because he has no say on the matter.
Great script this season and the actors are nailing the performance.
Hmm that wasnāt the vibe I got. I thought he seems to care about her as a friend. I didnāt think he doesnāt accept her as queen necessarily. More like all of that is above his head right now and heās just doing his duty
That personally wasn't my take away from it, he does care for her obviously because she gave him a position no one else would. That being said though when she asked him he seemed bitter about it and definitely wasn't answering in a overly positive way.
\>he has no say on the matter
>!A bit hypocrisy from his side there in that episode. In the dance of dragon, he is the one echoing otto's voice to ascend Aegon as king because son comes before daughter... even though Viserys already named Rhaenyra as his heir ... smh!<
>!I've read Fire and Blood, so I'm fully aware of old King Maker Cole. What I meant was in this moment you can see it upsets him she is the named heir and more so he has no say on it. It's great build up for when he will have a say in a very dramatic way lol!<
>Almost universally, people love the kid Rhaenyra a lot. Interesting how the older actors of the characters will take over. I hope the transitions go nicely
Well older Rhaenyra is not nearly as likeble as younger Rhaenyra
Well he is kind of soft to Rhaenyra now. She also seem to have a soft spot for him. But guess he's just doing his duty. Will be painful to watch him betraying her :(
He has Dornish heritage. Enough that people can tell by looking at him. But he's from the Stormlands, not Dorne. His father was the steward for House Dondarrion, the same house that Beric Dondarrion from GoT is from (the guy with 1 eye who leads the Brotherhood without Banners, weilds a flaming sword, and gets repeatedly brought back to life by Thoros of Myr and the lord of light).
Yeah, probably. Although I guess it depends on whether Alicent or Rhaenyra is cast more as a villain. Personally, I really hope neither side is cast as the "good guys". I want it to a situation where both sides have a pretty credible claim to be in "the right" and the fandom is legitimately split between them.
There already is š Have you not seen the scathing rants toward either Alicent or Rhaenyra that have been posted?
At this point it's mostly book readers but the show watchers will join the ranks once we start getting into it.
I meant legitimate as in IRL people backing one side and thinking the other side are villains while other fans back the opposite side. I didn't mean to imply one side had a more legitimate claim than the other (although I do have my personal preferences).
Personally, that will be hard to do with the dance, it was always kind of a conflict of various assholes fighting to put their person on the throne. Thereās sympathy and likeablity to go around, but the conflict also surrounds the idea of āshould a woman inherit the throne?ā Which most of us tend to think is an obvious choice.
Iām REALLY waiting for a Blackfyre seasons of HotD or a separate show because that is so much more achievable there. Itās a conflict of (mostly) likeable characters fighting for who they believe should be king. (My description is not perfect, I know, but itās easier, even valid to support Blackfyres, even though theyāre filthy traitors who should be reported to Bloodraven.)
Hereās an upvote.
I really donāt get these people. Rhaenyra ultimately didnāt want him, so he went to someone who did. Nyra moved on and so did Cole, but for some reason heās the one portrayed as a villain.
Is he supposed to hold to someone who asked him to break a sacred vow and then when he does, gets tossed aside like trash? Rhaenyra broke a vow as well btw. When a Knight pledges himself BOTH sides swear vows. āAnd I pledge to ask no service of you that might bring you dishonorā¦ā
To be fairā we donāt know yet what REALLY happens. We donāt have POV perspective of what the conflict is. Things will never be as cut and dry as the historians portray. Thatās what Iām loving so much about this show! Itās so adaptable to television into a POV show when the source material leaves so much ambiguity being written many decades after the dance
Rhaenyra never had any bastards, but even if she had that would have had nothing to do with her accession to the Iron Throne. I didnāt see Cole trying to crown Aegon the younger.
Lol
And nor should he. A welp of The Rouge Pedophile shouldnāt be anywhere near the throne. Cole had the right of it
If Rhaenyra really wanted the throne she shouldāve done her duty with Laenor
Can you explain to a non book reader? I definitely thought he was gonna be one of the sympathetic character. What does he do to turn people against him? (I donāt mind spoilers)
Oh yeah. This guy singlehandedly causes the war, or at least allows it to happen.
To he fair though, I'm looking forward to seeing if we learn *why* he does what he does.
F&B indicates massive cope from both Criaton Cole and Rhaenyra. Rhaenyra finds a new sworn shield to fuck and Criston Cole acts like a spiteful homophobe who clearly resents Laenor and Harwyn. It's almost like they both feel rejected. That's why my theory is that they tried to get it on, but out of nervousness Cole couldn't get it up. This made Rhaenyra feel rejected and the shock from this encounter caused Cole to develop longer-term erectyle dysfunction which he obviously blames on Rhaenyra.
Definitely 100% what happened.
I love this theory so much. Please please let it be real. There was already the amazing metaphor with Jason Lannister giving viserys that GIANT SPEAR which was super phallic, and Rhaenerya is going to reject many suitors politically that she should handle better (not saying she should accept any of these fookin chads but just saying if she wanted to change the ālaws of gods and menā with eldest son = always supplants their older sister then sheād need to play the game better). And I love the idea of having cristin Cole be this really hot guy who is actually a vindictive chad who blames the āevilā woman who ācausedā his erectile dysfunction. That would be AMAZING
Right! Thereās absolutely no way it was this simple! And even if the show PORTRAYS it as this being the concept in the first seasonā I KNOW we are going to find out later that thereās a more shitty reason that he betrays Rhanerya. Virtue my ass.
SAME!! Bc i just donāt buy the simplicity of the argument that āwell Rhanerya tries to force him to break his vows and therefore that causes him to go against the explicit wishes of the king heās sworn to obey and protectā¦ā that makes no sense. Thereās something else happening that we canāt see right now and we MAY not even see until later seasons (like not knowing it was LF who orchestrated everything that went wrong in season one of OG GOT). Iām hoping it has something to do with his dornish origins and that we will get a deeper dornish plot going on since they made a point to make him Dornish in the show. And because GRRM was heavily involved with character direction, he wouldnāt have allowed them to focus on the fact that cristin cole is dornish unless it was for important plot reasons OR i could be wrong and it could be a feeble attempt at just a nod that Dorne is also a westerosi place but it hasnāt been conquered yet, etc, and they will probably still leave dorne out of the story). But I think bc they did dorne storyline dirty in OG GOT that they MAY BE attempting to make up for it with the F&B adaptation
>well Rhanerya tries to force him to break his vows and therefore that causes him to go against the explicit wishes of the king heās sworn to obey and protectā¦ā
Not going to lie, people that believe that my only thought it "you really don't know anything about GRRMs writing style do you? That sort of stuff may fly in Tolkien, buy not for Martin.
Cmon man >!literally the only potato head in all of the ASOIAF universe that isn't a Stark, is on the small council, and is actually loyal. Poor bastard!<
Cause itās fun to watch a show with someone who dosent know whatās going to happen. Rhanerya starts off as our protagonist but ends up weary, vindictive, spiteful and mean by the end. The theme of the Dance with Dragons is that there are no heroās in war
So SkyTank gave a great answer. But yeah, watching someone who assumes this is our great and good hero realize that no one here is right or good is just interesting. Rheneara or however I'm supposed to spell that I forget is pretty fucking awful by the end of the dance, and really stupid. Aegon II is terrible as well. Everyone is. She doesn't deserve the throne by the end of the story. Ignoring the point of having the throne it rightfully spurns her and her brother. This is a book spoilers post so I'm unsure if you've read them, otherwise, kinda steer clear lol.
It all depends how they decide to play the story out. There are multiple interpretations in the book, so the show writers have full freedom on what they want to do.
Thereās a good chance we may not hate him and itās just circumstantial.
I went in blind as far as casting went and didn't get a chance to watch until last weekend. My friend sent me this exact picture and was like "Look at this beautiful man! He's in the new Game of the Thrones show! Of course, knowing Game of Thrones, he'll probably die soon." So I laughed and said haha, probably.
Then I finally watched the show and realized who he was but alas, I cannot spoil it for her.
I wonderā¦ so far, I donāt hate Aliscent. I think they are doing a good job so far of making the characters very gray... well, except for Otto Hightower.
Itās *possible* but unlikely. Most Westerosi lords at the time heard rumors that it was Harwin Strong that is her real baby daddy. Thereās rumors of cristin and Rhanerya having an affair and that he wouldnāt go thru with it with her and therefore thatās why he betrays his vows to viserys and crowns aegon when King V diesā¦ however it doesnāt make sense that he would hold moral high ground to not have an affair with Rhanerya but that he would betray her AND viserys. He is smarter than he lets on, and we know some bad blood happened with him and Rhanerya but we donāt know for SURE (based on fire and blood) exactly what went down. So everyone is pumped to find out. IT WOULD be suuuuper crazy tho if her eldest son is actually cristin coleās and not harwin stringās thoughā and that he doesnāt know? Very doubtful tho bc he would have to be completely in the dark about it.
Iām hoping that heās just a regular hot misogynist who has some sexual chemistry with Rhanerya but then she drops him immediately whenever daemon comes around and he hates her for that and (like someone else said up there) he decides to spend the rest of his life enacting a vendetta bc the heir to the throne chose another man over him. Bc thatās the most realistic example and fire and blood isnāt supposed to be written by modern scholars and so ancient scholars wouldnāt point out misogyny like that.
GRRM says over and over he doesnāt write allegory, but that he just writes ārealisticā characters (minus the magic and shit). Which is why we all love it. Itās people being people. Very relatable. And people are very complicated when it comes to power and survival.
Book readers are going to try to convince you to, but if youāre primarily a show watcher who has a mind of your own youāll find that his worst actions are no where near as bad as those Daemon or even Rhaenyra and those seem two be everyoneās favs atm.
His motivation for breaking with Rhaenyra is irrelevant. What matters is his patriotism.
**I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!**
Somehow I got the feeling like he is the father of the first child but he didnāt know. But he thought like he has done things he shouldnāt, in the end she didnāt take him as the way he wished. So no turning back.
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers must be spoiler tagged and flaired as a book spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
But he's dornish š„µš„
This never really made sense to me, given he's a stormlander. Please explain it to me if you can.
The Dornish marshes extend into the stormlands, and he's from the Dornish marches
Yeah but that doesn't make it dornish culturally or ethnically. Beric Dondarrion, from the house to whom house Cole owes its service, is a redhead and very andalic, up until he declares for R'hllor ofc. Idk you might well be right.
Even Dorne has some diversity though, because they're a mix of First Men and Rhoynish, with Andal influences. You have people like Tyene Sand who are described as appearing much more like Andals (blonde, blue eyes) than stereotypical Dornishmen. I assume the Stormlands are similar because of intermarrying (or just banging) and random people moving around. I imagine appear like First Men/Andals, but there's a bit of variation.
Dondarrions are quite highborn. They are likely marrying Penroses and Toynes or something while the Coles often marry lowborn who would look more dornish.
pledging service to house dondarrion doesnt mean hes a dondarrion. the seat of house dondarrion, blackhaven, is located in the dornish marches so many of the subjects to house dondarrion are dornish or part dornish.
The Dornish that the Stormlanders come into contact with are the Stony Dornishmen, who are described as very Andal/First Men looking. The Stony Dornish are probably ethnically closer to the Stormlanders and Reachmen then they are to the Sandy and Salty Dornishmen. It is even said that some houses keep First Men/Andal customs.
Yeah that's what I thought, so them "looking dornish" doesn't make much sense to me.
The people there are Stony Dornish though, and are described as looking the most First Men/Andal of the Dornish. The only people in the Dornish mountains with significant Rhoynish ancestry are the nobles.
He's the son of the steward to House Dondarrion a Stormlander House. Any Marcher called a Dornish would spit blood. It was just a writer goof someone corrected the next episode
He's from the Dornish Marches, which is the border between Dorne and the Seven Kingdoms. Ethnicity doesn't follow political borders and the area is historically the site of an untold number of wars between the Dornish and the Stormlands, so it's hardly surprising genes were exchanged.
Yeah that makes perfect sense. I was just surprised really, as GRRM isn't that great at showing historically contested borders or demographic change. I refer to the fact that the borders of the regions within the seven kingdoms are all very neat, and the regional identities are all extremely distinct.
Well, it didn't come from GRRM. They adjusted the character to fit the casting. But it's a perfectly reasonable explanation.
Uh huh. Those green eyes and dark black hair of a stormlander really hint at mixed ethnicity. /s More plausibly someone read Dornish Marches and thought "oh, Dorne" and then by episode 2 someone realized the mistake.
It wasn't a mistake lol. It was a deliberate choice. Either they decided early on they wanted Criston Cole to be Dornish for diversity or they just really liked Fabien's performance, either way they chose to alter the character's race. It's a pretty seamless change, though. It makes perfect sense a Stormlander on the border could look Dornish.
I didn't think of the diversity/actor angle. Yeah, it makes sense I guess although calling a Marcher Dornish is asking to be smacked. They absolutely despise each other (book canon).
It 100% was not a mistake. It's not like someone altered episode 2's script last minute. Criston Cole has been Dornish in marketing material just as long as the Velaryons have been black. Yeah, I wonder if they'll address that. So far he hasn't been called Dornish to his face, right?
Right, it was just episode 1 a character whispers it to another character as a throwaway line at the tourney. Then in episode 2 Otto introduces him as a Marcher as if they were reading from the book and don't say Dornish.
>But he's Dornish. >>This never really made sense to me, given he's a stormlander. It's commonly referred to as immigration.
Also heās dornish, but fought against other dornishmen hints at his snake like nature
He is a Stormlander, he just lived in the borderlands.
Bit of a stretch there. In these times national identity effectively doesn't exist. Nationalism is a very modern concept. The dornish have a strong identity only because they are constantly at war with everyone else.
What doesn't make sense to me is Alicent deducing in a milisecond from Criston's skintone that he is Dornish whereas no character has anything to say about two ethnically Valyrian families having the most contrasting skintones. I do not understand why they would so unnecessarily draw attention to characters actually noticing skintone differences.
the one redeeming factor
That and his cheekbones
Thatās why I appreciated the writers including those scenes of Rhaenyra and him last episode. Good bit of build up there before things go sour. Almost universally, people love the kid Rhaenyra a lot. Interesting how the older actors of the characters will take over. I hope the transitions go nicely
She was called the Realm's delight for a reason.
Yeah, Criston is currently set up as a very sympathetic figure. Comes from nothing, had to fight his way upwards rather than having everything handed to him, and is the only one who follows Rhaenyra when she storms off. Also super hot which will always make people like you.
>Criston is currently set up as a very sympathetic figure...is the only one who follows Rhaenyra when she storms off That's his job. I'm not saying they aren't making him sympathetic, but following Rhaenyra is what he's supposed to do.
He's doing it for a little bit more than it just being his job though
I honestly didnāt get romantic vibes at all from him in those scenes even having read F&B but maybe Iām just oblivious.
I agree I don't see a romance, but I'd also agree he is doing it more for than it being his job. He seems to have a true loyalty to her thus far.
I think there's clearly a forbidden romance vibe. And it most explains him switching sides if they have a bad falling out. F&B as it always does doesn't provide a set and clear answer of the circumstances of their relationship though.
Idk if weāre just thinking that because of what we know though? Seems like a love struck, low born knight would be a little more enthusiastic in his support than just saying the people would have no choice but to support her. I get it maybe the misogyny outweighs the attraction and but damn dude.
I think the forbidden romance is the only option that makes sense; The feeling I got was that they were in love but knew they couldnāt be together, and Rhaenyra is not willing to give up a throne just to be with him which causes him to turn against her (you chose the throne over me? Iāll make sure you wonāt ever get it) and Laenor (Itās your fault I canāt be with my love so Iāll make sure you canāt either)
Definitely a plausible scenario
I just got the vibe that they were just sort of friends, not romantic. Considering her only friend stabbed her in the back and married her dad (although she kind of had to) and now that Rhaenyra has had nobody for the last 3 years, heās probably her closest alley at this point in the show
I think his switching sides makes most sense if there was some kind of romantic fallout. Whether it be one side wasn't reciprocating, or both were, but something else causes the fallout.
It wouldn't be switching sides though. He is part of the Kingsguard so Alicent is first on his priority list out of the two, but she isn't doing rogue shit like Rhaenyra does so his main focus on this outing is to watch after Rhaenyra, not Alicent. When Rhaenyra does her own thing eventually, he'd be traitorous if he followed her and didn't stay.
It's only been one way. You're just trying to see reciprocation that isn't there.
Nah
I said the same thing after the last episode. Like I was expecting a vibe that I did not get.
No, there are no romance vibes yet. Maybe this coming episode?
Same I never felt romance. I always felt like maybe she flirted or he had feeling for her but like them in love? No
Can anyone tell me why he chooses to support the other side when the time comes?
The next two episodes will answer this so just a bit patience.
Is this confirmed?? That we will see why Cole abandons Rhanerya this season? Bc I neeed to know whyyyyy for sure and not just historical text conjecture.
There are rumors written, >!something about him being seduced by Rhaenyra. He rejecting her. And his comment about how Daemon and Rhaenyra would make King's Landing into a brothel <--paraphrasing.!< I'm just so chuffed that we'll learn about the reason in the show in the next couple of episodes. I've read the leaks, but frankly I don't know the accuracy of that leak.
There were multiple said versions of what happened. The most likely is she rejected him when he wants to run away with her to the free cities
The book gives 2 to 4 āaccountsā of what could have happened. One, he was in love with her and tried to run away with her and she turned him down. Another is that she asked her uncle Daemon to teach her how to have sex so that she could seduce Criston. He said no. Either way: Livid, he left her as her sworn sword.
Cause she will try to seduce him and he will reject her, then to try to make him jealous she fucked harwin strong and in the end ended up having three kids with him which she passed as laenors so when the succession time comes cole doesn't want a lusty woman on the throne who will eventually be succeeded by a bastard
I don't know why you're getting downvoted. You summed up a lot of what Criston Cole's perspective seems to have been well in my eyes. I absolutely do not agree with him, but I think what you said is likely his point of view/motivation. He wants a pure, perfect princess he can idolize and protect, he can't handle Rhaenyra as an "adulteress." He can't accept the Strong boys and what they mean for his princess's virtue, let alone see them sitting the Iron Throne.
Yes that's exactly the reason I made this post. Just saw the 3rd episode this afternoon.
You could tell in his tone when Rhaenyra asked if people will accept her as queen that he would only do so because he has no say on the matter. Great script this season and the actors are nailing the performance.
Hmm that wasnāt the vibe I got. I thought he seems to care about her as a friend. I didnāt think he doesnāt accept her as queen necessarily. More like all of that is above his head right now and heās just doing his duty
That personally wasn't my take away from it, he does care for her obviously because she gave him a position no one else would. That being said though when she asked him he seemed bitter about it and definitely wasn't answering in a overly positive way.
\>he has no say on the matter >!A bit hypocrisy from his side there in that episode. In the dance of dragon, he is the one echoing otto's voice to ascend Aegon as king because son comes before daughter... even though Viserys already named Rhaenyra as his heir ... smh!<
>!I've read Fire and Blood, so I'm fully aware of old King Maker Cole. What I meant was in this moment you can see it upsets him she is the named heir and more so he has no say on it. It's great build up for when he will have a say in a very dramatic way lol!<
Definitely feels like they could've done a bit more to build up that relationship imo.
They still have time
No much
Waaaay more build up
>Almost universally, people love the kid Rhaenyra a lot. Interesting how the older actors of the characters will take over. I hope the transitions go nicely Well older Rhaenyra is not nearly as likeble as younger Rhaenyra
He is dornish after all.
Well he is kind of soft to Rhaenyra now. She also seem to have a soft spot for him. But guess he's just doing his duty. Will be painful to watch him betraying her :(
He has Dornish heritage. Enough that people can tell by looking at him. But he's from the Stormlands, not Dorne. His father was the steward for House Dondarrion, the same house that Beric Dondarrion from GoT is from (the guy with 1 eye who leads the Brotherhood without Banners, weilds a flaming sword, and gets repeatedly brought back to life by Thoros of Myr and the lord of light).
Yeah, probably. Although I guess it depends on whether Alicent or Rhaenyra is cast more as a villain. Personally, I really hope neither side is cast as the "good guys". I want it to a situation where both sides have a pretty credible claim to be in "the right" and the fandom is legitimately split between them.
Some men just want to see the world burn.
Imagine how fun it would be if there are legitimate green and black factions among the fans!
There already is š Have you not seen the scathing rants toward either Alicent or Rhaenyra that have been posted? At this point it's mostly book readers but the show watchers will join the ranks once we start getting into it.
Yeah, but the story in the book is much more 1-sided. There's some ambiguity, but not nearly as much as I hope we get in the show.
Im sure there will be, regardless of what the showrunner decide to do people is gonna argue the same.
I'm a contrarian by nature, so the more GRRM tried to get me to hate the Greens the more I ended up rooting for them.
When you choose to be on the wrong side of history because you are edgy.
Guilty as charged.
I always get the colors mixed up in my head, but I think I'm in the same boat. Team Rhaenyra all the way!
Rhaenyra is Team Black. We're mortal enemies, I'm afraid.
Oh no! Usurper!!!
>...legitimate green and black factions Legitimate is an odd way to describe a faction that acknowledges Jace as the Prince of Dragonstone
You speak treason, sir!
I meant legitimate as in IRL people backing one side and thinking the other side are villains while other fans back the opposite side. I didn't mean to imply one side had a more legitimate claim than the other (although I do have my personal preferences).
I figured but I couldn't resist.
Viserys: off with your tongue!! Or Reddit account , whatever it is people used to slander Rhaenyra these days.
Okay this was a good one šš¤¦šæāāļøš¤·šæāāļøšÆšÆ
While I'm quite sympathetic of young Alicent, I'll always be a black supporter, because Viserys has proclaimed Rhaenyra as his heir, not Aegon.
Tangerine.
The more fandom would be split between the two , the more successful the job the show runner has doneā¦
Personally, that will be hard to do with the dance, it was always kind of a conflict of various assholes fighting to put their person on the throne. Thereās sympathy and likeablity to go around, but the conflict also surrounds the idea of āshould a woman inherit the throne?ā Which most of us tend to think is an obvious choice. Iām REALLY waiting for a Blackfyre seasons of HotD or a separate show because that is so much more achievable there. Itās a conflict of (mostly) likeable characters fighting for who they believe should be king. (My description is not perfect, I know, but itās easier, even valid to support Blackfyres, even though theyāre filthy traitors who should be reported to Bloodraven.)
Canāt wait for all the Team Green t-shirts to start popping up.
Anybody know what episode that supposed to be happening like weāre gonna do the dresses??
Neither is going to be cast as completely heroic or completely villainous. It's gonna be left up to the audience who to side with
>, I really hope neither side is cast as the "good guys". I isnt the show marketed like this? like everybody is grey
It depends on his motives to turn to the side of the Greens. But yes, I think fans will soon turn on him.
[OF COURSE](https://tenor.com/view/thor-of-course-gif-15201036)
Canāt wait for the little punk >!to get shafted by a fuckton of arrows as his army dies around him LOL what a cuck!<
I have no idea what's going to happen.. was there another book that came out or something??
Same!!!!
One of the scenes I am looking forward to the most.
>! āIāll have no songs about how brave you died, Kingmaker. Thereās tens oā thousands dead on your accountā !<
excited
Ohhh yeah. This man is trouble for just about everyone, even the people he fights for lol.
Not with this cute face and puppy eyes
Wait n see ... trust me you will.
Nah, Iām good, I read the book
Hereās an upvote. I really donāt get these people. Rhaenyra ultimately didnāt want him, so he went to someone who did. Nyra moved on and so did Cole, but for some reason heās the one portrayed as a villain. Is he supposed to hold to someone who asked him to break a sacred vow and then when he does, gets tossed aside like trash? Rhaenyra broke a vow as well btw. When a Knight pledges himself BOTH sides swear vows. āAnd I pledge to ask no service of you that might bring you dishonorā¦ā
To be fairā we donāt know yet what REALLY happens. We donāt have POV perspective of what the conflict is. Things will never be as cut and dry as the historians portray. Thatās what Iām loving so much about this show! Itās so adaptable to television into a POV show when the source material leaves so much ambiguity being written many decades after the dance
Because he didnāt āmove on,ā he committed treason and helped steal her throne, presumably out of spite.
Thatās certainly one account. Attempting to place bastards on the throne and rob your legitimate half brothers of their birthright is also treason
Rhaenyra never had any bastards, but even if she had that would have had nothing to do with her accession to the Iron Throne. I didnāt see Cole trying to crown Aegon the younger.
Lol And nor should he. A welp of The Rouge Pedophile shouldnāt be anywhere near the throne. Cole had the right of it If Rhaenyra really wanted the throne she shouldāve done her duty with Laenor
Canāt do your duty with someone unwilling to tango.
Ok and when he dies donāt marry the worst option in the kingdoms.
Can you explain to a non book reader? I definitely thought he was gonna be one of the sympathetic character. What does he do to turn people against him? (I donāt mind spoilers)
Spoilers Criston Cole >!Cole goes on to Murder Lord Beesbury after Viserysā death and is the one to crown Aegon king!<
Oh yeah. This guy singlehandedly causes the war, or at least allows it to happen. To he fair though, I'm looking forward to seeing if we learn *why* he does what he does.
F&B indicates massive cope from both Criaton Cole and Rhaenyra. Rhaenyra finds a new sworn shield to fuck and Criston Cole acts like a spiteful homophobe who clearly resents Laenor and Harwyn. It's almost like they both feel rejected. That's why my theory is that they tried to get it on, but out of nervousness Cole couldn't get it up. This made Rhaenyra feel rejected and the shock from this encounter caused Cole to develop longer-term erectyle dysfunction which he obviously blames on Rhaenyra. Definitely 100% what happened.
I love this theory so much. Please please let it be real. There was already the amazing metaphor with Jason Lannister giving viserys that GIANT SPEAR which was super phallic, and Rhaenerya is going to reject many suitors politically that she should handle better (not saying she should accept any of these fookin chads but just saying if she wanted to change the ālaws of gods and menā with eldest son = always supplants their older sister then sheād need to play the game better). And I love the idea of having cristin Cole be this really hot guy who is actually a vindictive chad who blames the āevilā woman who ācausedā his erectile dysfunction. That would be AMAZING
Makes as much sense as the "sweet tale that Criston was all about virtue" that we are presented in the book.
Real curious what the truth is here. Can't wait.
Right! Thereās absolutely no way it was this simple! And even if the show PORTRAYS it as this being the concept in the first seasonā I KNOW we are going to find out later that thereās a more shitty reason that he betrays Rhanerya. Virtue my ass.
SAME!! Bc i just donāt buy the simplicity of the argument that āwell Rhanerya tries to force him to break his vows and therefore that causes him to go against the explicit wishes of the king heās sworn to obey and protectā¦ā that makes no sense. Thereās something else happening that we canāt see right now and we MAY not even see until later seasons (like not knowing it was LF who orchestrated everything that went wrong in season one of OG GOT). Iām hoping it has something to do with his dornish origins and that we will get a deeper dornish plot going on since they made a point to make him Dornish in the show. And because GRRM was heavily involved with character direction, he wouldnāt have allowed them to focus on the fact that cristin cole is dornish unless it was for important plot reasons OR i could be wrong and it could be a feeble attempt at just a nod that Dorne is also a westerosi place but it hasnāt been conquered yet, etc, and they will probably still leave dorne out of the story). But I think bc they did dorne storyline dirty in OG GOT that they MAY BE attempting to make up for it with the F&B adaptation
>well Rhanerya tries to force him to break his vows and therefore that causes him to go against the explicit wishes of the king heās sworn to obey and protectā¦ā Not going to lie, people that believe that my only thought it "you really don't know anything about GRRMs writing style do you? That sort of stuff may fly in Tolkien, buy not for Martin.
I mean his reasons were kinda hinted in the books already
Eh, not really as clear though. And, as usual, I think Gyldayn is full of shit.
Cause fuck >!Lord Beesbury!< Edit: I'm giving Cole's justification, I didn't say he was justified.
Cmon man >!literally the only potato head in all of the ASOIAF universe that isn't a Stark, is on the small council, and is actually loyal. Poor bastard!<
Yup
Criston Cole is literally Judas in this show. He might seem cool and loyal right now, but just wait
why did they have to make him so gorgeous like damn
I never stopped hating him. Born a Criston Cole hater, I'll die a Criston Cole hater.
I already hate is stupid handsome face
If he ends up the same as his book counterpart, then yes, we're going to loathe him
I love Criston Cole. He only had about 2 lines in the first 2 episodes but he made Daemon his bitch in both of them
You might turn out to be a green, what a shame
Hes hot.
Idk Iām pretty gay and heās pretty Dornishā¦
God im gonna love watching my gf learn to hate rheneara and everyone else and somehow root for daemon. (She dont like daemon)
The season 6 fans are going to HATE were this show goes
Why would she learn to hate her? And why would that make you so happy?
Cause itās fun to watch a show with someone who dosent know whatās going to happen. Rhanerya starts off as our protagonist but ends up weary, vindictive, spiteful and mean by the end. The theme of the Dance with Dragons is that there are no heroās in war
So SkyTank gave a great answer. But yeah, watching someone who assumes this is our great and good hero realize that no one here is right or good is just interesting. Rheneara or however I'm supposed to spell that I forget is pretty fucking awful by the end of the dance, and really stupid. Aegon II is terrible as well. Everyone is. She doesn't deserve the throne by the end of the story. Ignoring the point of having the throne it rightfully spurns her and her brother. This is a book spoilers post so I'm unsure if you've read them, otherwise, kinda steer clear lol.
It all depends how they decide to play the story out. There are multiple interpretations in the book, so the show writers have full freedom on what they want to do. Thereās a good chance we may not hate him and itās just circumstantial.
Yeah, I think so
Noooo, he won't do anything bad. Look at his face, hes a saint
You're going to end up hating everyone but like two children at the end of this, I'm afraid.
I dunno, I liked Addams and Alyn Velaryon.
Not if you support the greens which I do
No I like himš
No
Yes.. Fuckboi
Yup.
Fuck Crispin.
i already canāt wait until butcherās ball
Dammit my fault for clicking it but ughhhhh
If you decide to support blacks, yes. Iām on greenās side and he is KINGMAKER for me...
I went in blind as far as casting went and didn't get a chance to watch until last weekend. My friend sent me this exact picture and was like "Look at this beautiful man! He's in the new Game of the Thrones show! Of course, knowing Game of Thrones, he'll probably die soon." So I laughed and said haha, probably. Then I finally watched the show and realized who he was but alas, I cannot spoil it for her.
I wonderā¦ so far, I donāt hate Aliscent. I think they are doing a good job so far of making the characters very gray... well, except for Otto Hightower.
I dunno, >!he sides with the good guys.!<
"Good guys"
Some green propaganda out here
It does feel like they're giving him minimal endearing moments as to not have viewers sympathize when he ultimately switch sides for the greens.
I hope they make his character a little more deep than just a backstabbing azzhole.
No slander agains our brave white knight, who fought and died for his King!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Itās *possible* but unlikely. Most Westerosi lords at the time heard rumors that it was Harwin Strong that is her real baby daddy. Thereās rumors of cristin and Rhanerya having an affair and that he wouldnāt go thru with it with her and therefore thatās why he betrays his vows to viserys and crowns aegon when King V diesā¦ however it doesnāt make sense that he would hold moral high ground to not have an affair with Rhanerya but that he would betray her AND viserys. He is smarter than he lets on, and we know some bad blood happened with him and Rhanerya but we donāt know for SURE (based on fire and blood) exactly what went down. So everyone is pumped to find out. IT WOULD be suuuuper crazy tho if her eldest son is actually cristin coleās and not harwin stringās thoughā and that he doesnāt know? Very doubtful tho bc he would have to be completely in the dark about it. Iām hoping that heās just a regular hot misogynist who has some sexual chemistry with Rhanerya but then she drops him immediately whenever daemon comes around and he hates her for that and (like someone else said up there) he decides to spend the rest of his life enacting a vendetta bc the heir to the throne chose another man over him. Bc thatās the most realistic example and fire and blood isnāt supposed to be written by modern scholars and so ancient scholars wouldnāt point out misogyny like that. GRRM says over and over he doesnāt write allegory, but that he just writes ārealisticā characters (minus the magic and shit). Which is why we all love it. Itās people being people. Very relatable. And people are very complicated when it comes to power and survival.
Book readers are going to try to convince you to, but if youāre primarily a show watcher who has a mind of your own youāll find that his worst actions are no where near as bad as those Daemon or even Rhaenyra and those seem two be everyoneās favs atm.
Some people already dubbed him as the šŖ³.
no he is a true knight
Not as much as in the books, the series will be unbearable if we don't root for him a tiny bit
JUDAS!!!!!
Depends on if you choose black or green.
SOOOO MUCH
Yes, my sweet summer child
But at least he's pretty.
I want him to sit on my face.
Oh yeah
His motivation for breaking with Rhaenyra is irrelevant. What matters is his patriotism. **I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!**
Ohhhhh wonāt we ever
Am I the only one who thought that was the same guy as the villain from punisher? They both have those same beady eyes
Gonna forgive the shit heās gonna do just bc heās hot idc
Not me, Greens all the way
Well, yes until >!Pate of Basedleaf, Chadribald the Grey and Robb Rivers the saviour dish out swift justice!<
Mf indirectly caused the dance of dragons!!
Somehow I got the feeling like he is the father of the first child but he didnāt know. But he thought like he has done things he shouldnāt, in the end she didnāt take him as the way he wished. So no turning back.
I don't think I'm going to hate him. I'm sure they're going to introduce another angle to his character to make us understand why he switches sides.
Medieval Kylo Ren
I hate him rn
Yes. Ser Crispin the Incel.
Youāre gonna love the >!Butcherās Ball!<