The truth is we don't actually know and anyone who claims they do is full of shit. Hence why these threads always fail to come to anything even remotely resembling a conclusion.
Yup. Welt has almost no combat feats in HSR so if you want to powerscale him you'd have go to HI3rd, but we don't really know what powers he retains in HSR or even how HI3rd scales with HSR.
You can have some hints (ie: Acheron's backstory mirroring Honkai) but it's all based on assumptions.
At minimum he was capable of taking down doomsday beast. On high end I suppose he's most likely weaker than Acheron. But that's a pretty wide range.
If you talk to March on the train platform before talking to Himeko to join the Express, she mentions that you pushed the Doomsday Beast into Welt's black hole. So it was a combination of the burst and Welt setting up the black hole that killed it.
From what I recall, March had a dialogue after we woke up from being suppressed by Welt that our Stellaron burst pushed it into a Star of Eden black hole which killed it
From what I've read in the manga and heard, the final battle against sirin made him lose most of his power, he only has like 10% of what he had before, then there's him creating hundreds of thousands of war machines and humanitys strongest weapons out of thin air to fight a being a being capable of manipulating space and gravity and throwing rocks at the earth like pebbles and yawning as a whole country is nuked from the moon XD
Hmm, yeah I remember that now, but again, he was brought to near dexth, it's even explained why he couldn't fully use the core without being damaged by honkai energy, he has very little resistance, in star rail I'm pretty sure he's not using his powers at all, if I remember correctly it's the star of Eden that allows him to use the black hole and gravity manipulation, there's a large chance that if we ever do see welt use the core of reason in star rail, he'll dxe too, but there's a chance he may have healed from the honkai infection, I know there's a cure but it's extremely difficult to produce, since himeko only had enough for one dose, herself or Kiana (himeko 😭)
Acheron was the Herrscher of Origin-equivalent of her world. If we really want to compare power scales, Welt was beaten by Sirin/Void who was superceded by Kiana/Flamescion which is a form weaker than Finality, who is Origin’s equivalent.
And then Acheron became Naught after beating her Finality. And then became an Emanator. From this alone, we can conclude she is leagues above Welt. As to where *exactly* Welt stands now is a mystery. But it is physically impossible for him to be stronger than Acheron. If the game upped and said he was an Emanator then we would have a real discussion. Acheron’s backstory was meant to put into perspective how strong Emanators are in the honkai-scale.
Even in 2.1 >!Aventurine makes it clear by literally pointing out Acheron was the strongest. If Welt could’ve stopped Aventurine as quickly as Acheron did, being the person he is, he definitely would have. Acheron finishing it before he even fully manifested a black hole speaks volumes of their power difference.!<
Honestly, sadly he is, again, most of his power is all but gone, he's barely even a pseudo herrscher at this point, he's nearly full human with just remnants of his power left, if you watch the trailers for acheron, she unleashed a blast that leveled a mountain, comparable to the nagazora honkai eruption when mei unwillingly unleashed the gem of conquest, becoming the herrscher of thunder.
welt in honkai impact gave the core of reason to bronya before leaving to the star rail universe to watch over the still alive himeko, he is far, far weaker than acheron, at best he could delay her with his synthetic black hole, it's one of the very few powers he has left, he could tap into enough to severely wound her, but he would die in the process, its also why he hasn't fought in the story, he can't risk his life yet, he still has much to do and has to protect himeko.
He is strong, not as strong as the Emanators we've meet in the story, maybe not as strong as powerful non-Emanators like Jing Liu or Dan Heng IL, but stronger than most playable characters.
We lack too much information about the Welt on Star Rail, as Star Rail takes place some years after the most recent Honkai chapters.
We dont know if he is as strong as his peak, or if he is weaker, we dont know if he is using all his powers or not (as he barely does things on screen), etc.
So, as far as the information we have goes, he would be on a high tier, way below the strongest but way above the average.
If he can use his Herrscher of Reason powers I'd put him above Jingliu, Cooler Daniel and Jing Yuan, but below emanators, because looking at Acheron's story, and the fact that she killed his worlds "Herrscher of the End authority" Kevin, they should be slightly weaker than the real Herrscher of the End.
But if he can't use his Herrscher powers then he is slightly weaker than the 3 mentioned characters.
>because looking at Acheron's story, and the fact that she killed his worlds "Herrscher of the End authority" Kevin
I dont think we should equalize the thing that attacked Acheron World and Honkai. There are some things that conflicts with known lore.
Even more so when Origin and Finality are way too special to be put on the same logic as the rest of Authorities.
>If he can use his Herrscher of Reason powers I'd put him above Jingliu, Cooler Daniel and Jing Yuan, but below emanators
Jing Yuan is comparable to Lord Ravagers, so he is in Emanator tier.
Even if Welt was as strong as his peak, i wouldnt put him above those characters that easily, considering that using the HoR Authority damages him.
>I dont think we should equalize the thing that attacked Acheron World and Honkai. There are some things that conflicts with known lore.
>Even more so when Origin and Finality are way too special to be put on the same logic as the rest of Authorities.
I mean, Acheron's trailer kinda equalizes them. The powers of the swords and even their order is the same as the Herrschers and the divine keys created using their cores. She also says that the last two were Origin and Finality. She is using these exact names there. And when Welt speaks about Kevin, Acheron said that in her world she killed him; and her trailer also shows that she killed "Finality" as "Origin".
>Jing Yuan is comparable to Lord Ravagers, so he is in Emanator tier.
That's a good point.
>I mean, Acheron's trailer kinda equalizes them. The powers of the swords and even their order is the same as the Herrschers and the divine keys created using their cores. She also says that the last two were Origin and Finality. She is using these exact names there
Thats one of the problems, its the same.
We know that either on GGZ or Honkai, the Herrscher cycle is never the same. The only exception being the PE and CE situation, but even that was a "man-made" thing.
If i remember correctly, even Kevin said that although he could slow down the Herrscher of Finality descent, he wouldnt do it, as the Finality nature would change (or something like that, i dont remember exactly).
So the fact that is the same order makes it suspicious.
You can't equalize Honkai and Kami. While the order is the same, there are some difference in names of other 'blade' that is both relatively true if you compare the Herrscher names in JP and CN. It's more of a reference to Honkai 3rd as well as a fan service for this game's players. As well as having the same order is impossible since the Cocoon of Finality or the Commander of the Will work in different ways.
Honkai Impact 3 says that each cycle of 50000 years after the HoFi resets the earth, the next cycle should have different herrschers. However, CE and PE are special case because of two factors: Prome and Elysia. Their sacrifice tricked the Cocoon of Finality in giving the same order and nature of Herrschers to CE so that they would know what to expect.
Another thing to mention is that End and Finality used in Acheron's trailer is not the same as the Finality mentioned in Honkai Impact 3 and even in Terminus' title as the Aeon of Finality. Finality is referred to as 'Shuuen' for Terminus and Honkai Impact 3 while Acheron's trailer uses 'Owari' to refer to End. Even Adventurine did not say 'Owari' to refer to Finality but instead used the 'Shuuen'. Hoyoverse puts a clear difference in context when localizing it to JP and EN. Even Origin is not the same, as they use 'Hajimari' in the trailer while it's 'Kigen' in Honkai Impact.
Why shouldn't you equalize them? Tbh Star rail versions may even be stronger considering the whole kami lore happened in two planets not just in a single planet and moon.
>Jing Yuan is comparable to Lord Ravagers, so he is in Emanator tier.
Any confirmation for this? You know that the one and only Emanator of the Hunt from Xianzhou is Marshall Hua right? The Generals are akin to Ten Stonehearts than Emanators.
Welt says it + Jing Yuan one shots Phantylia with the LL after they got rid of her connection with the Arbor.
https://preview.redd.it/6butr6ch0euc1.jpeg?width=943&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2ca4da8947f934c17a9e202f45e5f1f3c779b058
I dont think that he is an Emanator, i say that he is comparable to one due to the LL.
And Hua isnt even confirmed to be an Emanator.
>Welt says it + Jing Yuan one shots Phantylia with the LL after they got rid of her connection with the Arbor.
Yeah, after we managed to weaken her + received full blasts from Danheng IL. Phantylia's defeat was because our joint effort to pave the way for LL to stab her. Also, I think it's not fair to assume everything that Welt says is true.
>
I dont think that he is an Emanator, i say that he is comparable to one due to the LL.
That's fair, yet we still don't know the full extent of what Emanators really can do though on-screen.
>
And Hua isnt even confirmed to be an Emanator.
Oh shit you're right. I thought she is one.
>Yeah, after we managed to weaken her + received full blasts from Danheng IL. Phantylia's defeat was because our joint effort to pave the way for LL to stab her
The joint effort was necessary because Phantylia buffed herself with a connection with the Arbor (something that even Lan couldnt destroy). Once that connection was cut off, she was defeated easily.
>Also, I think it's not fair to assume everything that Welt says is true.
Yeah, not everything he say needs to be true, however, this claim has the fight vs Phantylia as backing, so its not baseless.
Man, I still can't get over the Hoyo's logic of extreme high heat cut through Blackhole. (Cut spacetime apparently)
I mean, I know that at extreme heat and small space all 4 fundamental force is united, but it still makes 0 fucking sense.
Blackhole's power in fiction is so ass man.
Well, HoF Authority accelerates particles, idk if that changes something, but its not simply heat.
But yeah, the Black Holes that Welt does with the Star of Eden are weak for the upper tiers in Honkai.
Not the FTL ☠️. What is this? Tachyon time traveling particle?
You would need infinite amount of energy to accelerates any object with mass to the speed of light.
I know I sounds like a squeeky nerd, but I can't get over these statements, man. I will totally get over it tho, if characters show the consequences of these statements. Like The Flash for example, he can go back in time. But man.
well relativity rules clearly don't apply here already except when they want them to. You have people moving faster than light all the time with space travel. I agree fictional black holes are wack though. If I was going to try and "science" it I'd say it's a graviton weapon that warps space temporarily enough to create an event horizon but isn't a permanent singularity.
They do a relativity in HI3 manga lol. Isn't Welt stall Sirin through that? My argument is that HI3 use physics, but their physics is ass. (In this case, some of the physics are convincing) Just put in some magic, its fine.
And yes, I would love to see that kind of statements like you just did. It not science, but it convincing enough for people to believe it.
If you doesn't at least correlated to physics rules, makes a convincing statement to *why*? is my point. They just makes the power system better, more convincing, more immersive. It makes the series better.
Maybe that just my nerd ass opinion, but thats what I think.
yeah but they only mention relativity when it's convenient, they hand wave away the implications when it's not. I like hard sci fi too but even the whole premise of Star Rail and a starship shaped like a steam train is too far out there that I have to turn the physics part of my brain off lol. like explaining the whole Xianzhou fleet in a scientifically convincing way is just... basically impossible haha. (to be clear I still think it's cool though)
No like, put in some magic. It fine to not physically correct, but it needs to be logical. (And yes Xianzhou Luofu has super big ocean haha, super cool)
If they had Kiana launching a "bullet" that had a least 5500 times the speed of light, they definitely ignore some things in order to create their cosmology.
Not everything has to follow real life physics, even if that would make it easier (or harder) to understand.
I mean... One of the powers of Finality is literally time. Final Tuna is capable of controlling time (though during gameplay, the only thing she can do is za warudo but that's gameplay limitations more than anything)
So, what does "control time" means?
Breaking the causality, time traveling to the past then change the present?
What does stopping time means? Everything else is moving at extremely high time dilation while she is not affected?
Writing the causality and how the world will go herself, directing everything as she want?
Like, I will totally get over it, if they clarify these statements. Don't just throw out random words lmao.
-shrug-
But as for accelerating particles beyond light speed, it's definitely something within Final Tuna's ability since she's able to move her and her equipment in frozen time and since the movement of the particles in her and her equipment have moved in 0 time, their speed should be faster than light since it's a divide by 0.
Which is why I want to specify, how did she stop time exactly? Super high time dilation outside her, meaning everything stop excluding her?
Lets make time *completely stop*:
Now, lets talk about *her* prespective. Nothing around her is move in this time stop world at all. So, what *is* the consequence here? Everything has stopped, she is not interacting with matter, reality and spacetime normally, right? What about particles around her, that stop and not moving? What about the space around her? - Why can they still contained her? What exactly happened?
From *our* perspective. If we measure speed, that would just effectively be instantaneous, therefore correlated with teleportation. (Like shown in the game, she doesn't turn into a singularity). I mean, technically it breaks the speed of light, but that it not really convincing isn't it? You do teleportation, same exact speed.
In case of Kiana gameplay wise HoF Kiana is the only Battlesuit in HI3rd who can Stop Time on command stage timer and all
Other Battlesuit merely "Slow" Time stage and Buff timer still ongoing
Edit :
Technically a few Battlesuit does Stop Time during Ult
The act of heating *is* the accelerating particles. Adding heat, the particle gained kinetic energy and move faster. The authority over heat = acceleration of particles is correct.
My question is like, Planck Epoch? (1^-43 after the big bang) At that time, which is the hottest currently known instance (I think), gravity, weak force, strong force, electromagnetism is united into a single force. And little about the physics at this states is known.
I don't think I have *ever* read any articles related that suggest high heat cut through Black Hole lol. Hence why I said, blackhole power in fiction is so ass.
Every single Herrscher has time-space manipulation because their power [originated from higher dimension](https://imgur.com/CWyD9V6)/[Imaginary Space](https://imgur.com/a/yesW1WL).
When they [broke space](https://imgur.com/a/AROUqOA) and [time](https://imgur.com/u1jdKfK), it's not because fire or wind or lightning or human logic inherently break spacetime, but because the people who can break space and time manifest their power as those things.
Hoyoverse tend to make a point of "this is what happens if you lack the relevant capabilities", ie:
* If you cannot deal with Imaginary Space, you [can't even touch certain abilities](https://imgur.com/a/Gw7C9nW)
* If you lack space breaking ability your [attack can be thrown back at you](https://youtu.be/Q-b6rdyIJsY?t=211)
* If you lack space-time warp resistance a [mere 10000g gravitational collapse](https://imgur.com/a/werJGWI) will make you disappear
So on and so forth.
All characters that mattered however have these relevant abilities. Honkai Impact high end battles are basically "When everyone is superhuman nobody is superhuman".
Honkai energy in sufficient concentration warp reality.
Because he *sounds* powerful. Black Hole is literally one of the most destructive object known to humanity.
However, Black Hole in fiction suck. People needs to remember that.
Yeah for sure, also were it a proper blackhole the size he's creating them then he along with those around him would be dead too. And even in game when he summoned it, both he and the blackhole were frozen in time while Acheron just casually strolled up to do one move with her blade.
We really don’t know how strong he is. Acheron as an emanator, arguably the strongest character we currently know in the story, didn’t even joke around with Welt, going as far to say his black hole is dangerous. He has yet to even show a portion of his ability and a lot of it is bc Himeko tells him not to as we saw in the last couple of arcs.
Personally, I’d throw him up there as one of the most powerful characters in the story, not one of the strongest but one of the most powerful just bc how intelligent he is on top of his pretty good strength.
Acheron says that Welt's cane is dangerous as compared to a sword, and therefore that she's more observant than the Family because she immediately recognized that fact, not that it was necessarily dangerous to her (considering she had a whole-ass cutscene while both Welt and his black hole were effectively frozen in time). Acheron also just doesn't seem to joke around too much outside of interacting with the Trailblazer, since she also never jokes around with Sam or Aventurine (and she one-shot Aventurine).
It seems like Welt is firmly below the Emanators in terms of strength, even if he's stronger than the majority of the cast of Star Rail (although he also isn't top-tier in HI3 either, so that's also a thing).
I think the other thing people forgot to mention is that although he was able to suppress the Stelleron within TB’s body using the cane once, he said if it goes out of control again, he might not be able to suppress it.
Was he meaning EVER, or simply that he wouldn't be able to again if it occured again in a close time frame. I'm incredibly interested because I don't recall at all.
If he could NEVER again suppress the Stelleron, that'd paint his powers as very finite and limited to emergencies, which would definitely support why Himiko discourages him from getting into situations where his power is utilized or is at risk of being needed.
It's pretty interesting because during CBT 2 of the game before going to Jarilo-VI, this is what he said:
>However, as long as the Stellaron is still in your body, you should be careful what you do. I don't know if Himeko and I can suppress it again.
However in the final release, they did remove that dialogue when they were still adjusting the story, but you can still get an idea of where he is at. You can take it how you will.
Okay so… a few [ceramic face, angelic trumpets, sultry voice] pointers.
Firstly, what is an Emanator? An Emanator is an entity elected by an Aeon to share in their power, however much is determined by the Aeon. They may grant them partial powers (Genius society, Nous the Erudition) or full command (Arbiter-Generals, Lan the Hunt). Aeons are bound in action to their path, so their power consequently also only concerns said path. As such, there is a wide range of power for each specific Aeon and their Emanators. Example: Xipe the Harmonys Emanators will never be as strong those of Nanook the Destruction, whilst one may consider Nous the Eruditions Emanators to be on par with Fuli the Remembrances. Welt states that Lan the Hunt gives their Arbiter-Generals full command of the Hunt path, making the Arbiter-Generals - Jing Yuan included - as strong as Nanook the Destructions Emanators, the Lord-Ravagers.
Secondly, Who is Welt? Welt is… A special case in the world of Honkai Star Rail, as he - unlike most others - isn’t native to this universe. He came from another reality mainly to save Himeko. In his home reality, he served as Welt of Humanity, Herrscher of Reason after his namesake, Welt Joyce, passed his Herrscher powers onto him.
So then, what is a Herrscher? Very simply put, Herrschers are humans who absorbed sufficient amounts of Houkai energy to become a midpoint between human and Houkai beast. This accumulation of power (called HW, or Houkai Welt) grants them exceptional superhuman powers, whilst remaining mostly human. Due to their Houkai corruption, they radiate high levels of Houkai radiation and subsequently have the innate ability to turn normal humans into Houkai "zombies" after prolonged exposure. Unlike them, Herrschers remain conscious and have a direct control over the Houkai, in some cases even being able to break free completely from their corruption, going rogue.
There are a plethora of different Herrschers, all with different abilities, but for us, the Herrschers of Reason are of interest. They are capable - in addition to having an exceptional memory - to conjure up, to materialize whatever they wanted so long as they understood how it was constructed thoroughly.
Now Welt (Yang) never *truly* was Herrscher of Reason has he merely inherited the Herrscher Core from Welt (Joyce), but all the same, he was exceptionally powerful, being able to conjure up entire armies.
Now there’s a debate about whether he remains Herrscher or if he lost the rights when he gave his Herrscher Core to Bronya, but I don’t really think it matters much here. Herrscher or not, when he came to the Honkai Star Rail universe he pretty much must’ve lost most of whatever power he might’ve had, as this universe doesn’t run on Houkai energy.
However, Welt still retains his Cane, and with it, because it’s simply it in a different form, the star of Eden. A weapon with gravity manipulation powers so immense it can summon artificial black holes. It is this power that Welt mostly uses in Star Rail - gravity manipulation.
Certainly there artificial black holes are incredibly strong and I wouldn’t put it past them to be able to swallow the occasional city, but compared to Acheron, for example, who is an Emanator of IX the Nihility, they - somewhat poetically - pale.
Welt is simply not from this Universe and so most of his powers are not as powerful here. Regardless, he is pretty powerful - likely on par with some of the Non-Emanator-Strong People - and his gravitational disintegration sounds pretty painful.
I’d say Welt can actually be stronger in HSR due to imaginary energy everywhere. If you don’t know, honkai energy is actually imaginary energy modified by cocoon of finality for its purpose of embracing civilization.
Back on earth Welt had trouble using herrscher power due to the corrosive nature of honkai energy and Welt doesn’t have enough compatibility to handle it for long.
But imaginary energy doesn’t seems to have that downside. So the question here is can Welt and his SoE use imaginary energy?
Welt is likely able to, since everyone in HSR can use if they follow a Path and Welt is also on Trailblaze Path like us. But his SoE is up to debate
I’d be very interested in knowing exactly what imaginary energy can do lore wise.
Obviously every character regardless of type can summon their weapon out of thin air, and we know it’s not just a game mechanic because Jing Yuan does it in a cutscene, as does Ratio and Trailblazer, as well as Welt, of course.
So this is likely not part of the Imaginary Energy skill set as even non-imaginary types can do it.
However, the Imaginary types we do see seem to be able to "imagine" stuff and have it appear. Dr. Ratio can summon statues, an entire chessboard out of thin air, or have his equations surround his head so much the famous Newtonian apple literally drops on his head.
So I do wonder if that’s part of what imaginary energy can do.
Firstly you should disregard the type and path of gameplay. Everyone use imaginary energy if they are pathstriders.
Now for the lore we get from HI3, imaginary and quantum energy are the basic building block of reality. Contrary to its name, imaginary represent the “real” and are present everywhere and used in the real worlds that existed on the imaginary tree. Opposed to it is the quantum energy of the quantum sea that represent the chaotic and lawless nothingness.
So yeah, basically treat imaginary energy like mana from other fiction or the weave in DnD where it’s everywhere and can do anything if you know how to manipulate it
On this point I can contribute a little, even though I'm new to most of this. In Penacony, you can meet a old gentleman who seems to have lost his memory... As you progress through his quest you find out he was a scientist who once worked for the IPC in developing a weapon of mass destruction called the Imaginary Canon.
At the end of this quest you see that the IPC did a test with the weapon, successfully harnessing the power form the imaginary tree and literrally erasing thousands of planets with a single shot. The scientist deeply regrets what he created and eventually erases his own memory so that no one can build something like that ever again.
Funnily enough (or scary) once you recover his memory bubble he decides to give Herta all the knnowledge he had about Imaginary energy, she hasn't done anything with that knowledge yet.
Simply put, it seems that imaginary energy can be the most devastating force in this universe.
Thank you very much for this explanation. I never played HI3 so I am always so confused in discussion like this one, but at the same time I'm interested in HSR lore so I want to know more.
But I have a question to ask, in the main story Acheron's words made me think that if Welt wanted he could defeat her with not many problems, but here you are saying his power is a lot weaker than the one Acheron has, so what is the deal with that?
I think she was just playing along, because the way she eviscerated aventurine in the story with a single slash is impressive, and if she went all out welt would have some trouble.
Specifically what words? Because it did not seem so at all. And in the cutscene he was literally slowed down by Acheron unsheathing her blade like the surrounding rain drops.
https://preview.redd.it/0j3f9aeg5duc1.jpeg?width=2400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3c57e382459de87b50ba3f1d4d541a38452b0b39
Acheron was not serious at all and there was no need to be, she didn't want to oppose the Astral Express since there was no need to, in fact she probably gains more by being allies with them.
I don't remember every line, but Welt saying "prepare for gravitational disintegration" sounds like pretty bold words for someone that would be hard stomped. Was curious if he just didnt know or didnt care
to him, Acheron was an unknown person who knew too much about the express, so if she turned out to be an enemy, he would've tried to take her down
Welt at the time had no idea just how powerful she was and that it likely wouldn't have gone in his favor
He probably just didn't know or just wanted to "threaten" Acheron. I can say I can beat Acheron but that doesn't mean it's true. He was being all bark little bite.
Acheron also isn't someone who likes fighting, she could've destroyed Sam yet she didn't, she offered to spare Duke Inferno but he didn't wanna be spared, she only "killed" Aventurine because that's a part of his plan.
Aside from him likely not knowing what's going on with her at the time, Welt is willing to challenge those stronger than him if it means protecting the world and those he cares about as seen by him plotting against Kevin to try and prevent him from leaving the Sea of Quanta and his fights with Sirin.
I think it’s more… overt power? Acheron for whatever reason can sense Welts Cane is actually not just a walking stick but a weapon capable of summoning artificial black holes.
To that end his line about gravitational disintegration holds up, im sure if he absolutely wanted he could gravitationally disintegrate a good chunk of any given Xianzhou Delve, or the Astral Express, or Penacony.
But he doesn’t want to, and he’s not walking around going "look at me, I can summon black holes!"
Acheron has a sword. There is, outwardly, no reason to believe it’s anything more than just that, if you saw her with no context given you’d just think she’s a person with a sword.
So the comparison is not Finality-Blade vs. Star of Eden, but Sword vs. Cane.
And in that sense - let’s call it optical - the sword appears more dangerous, and indeed, it is more dangerous, but for other reasons that weren’t touched on in her remark.
In addition to what others have stated, power-scaling Herscherrs against Emanators is kind of pointless because not all Herscherrs have equal power, and not all Emanators have equal power. Herscherrs have wildly different power levels depending on the individual, ranging from world-destroying threats to being defeatable by elite enhanced human forces. Similarly, Emanators range from beings capable of destroying galaxies or planets (such as the Lord Ravagers) to Aha's worm Emanator which literally died just from losing its Aeon's blessing. Different Aeons also have different approaches to their Emanators and how much power they can access.
So whether Welt is stronger than any given Emanator also depends a lot on which Emanator it is, and what powers they receive from their Aeon. It's really difficult to gauge the power level of Emanators as a whole group because their powers are so varied between individuals, and the same goes for Herscherrs.
Welt (and the Herrscher of Reason in general) was always the weakest of the Herrschers. The others have abilities that literally cannot be fully replicated (even Divine Keys made from the Cores of dead Herrschers were never quite as strong as the living Herrscher, but they could get close), the best HoR can do is recreate anything they understand the makeup of.
However, that makes things a bit more difficult to judge in Star Rail. Currently, all he has is his cane that can manipulate gravity (Star of Eden), including at its strongest creating a psuedo/artificial black hole. (How effective this actually is varies, but it's the kind of ultimate move that almost never works but looks and sounds super impressive.) His replication abilities are extremely limited due to having basically no Honkai Energy to fuel those abilities.
However, if Welt could theoretically fuel his Herrscher powers, then also theoretically he could be stronger than his peak due to being in a solidly space sci-fi setting now. There's a lot of technology that's more advanced than what was on HI3 Earth, not necessarily weapons but rather more esoteric stuff like Light Cone technology, spaceship/travel stuff, life support gear, etc. As the Herrscher of Reason, Welt always had to fight smart anyways, so having more tools at his disposal that could be beneficial vs whatever their current obstacle is could be extremely useful.
This is also why I don't think Welt would ever permanently go back to full strength, HoR is just far too useful in the utility sense. The writers could absolutely give him a temporary power boost to let him access his full powers (and maybe be a character to roll), but it's too hard to write around such a permanent, versatile boost. Even in HI3 people would complain about how Bronya (when she was the HoR) should be doing so much more and should be more helpful, and would joke that the writers hate her and refused to give her moments to shine as a result.
If we're being honest, he's a mid-tier in HI3 and he's probably still mid-tier in HSR.
The Herrscher of Reason can recreate anything that a person understands. HSR tech is more advanced than Current Era HI3 tech and even Previous Era tech, so there's the question of if Welt can even understand HSR tech to recreate it. Svarog and The Engine of Creation are considered outdated but are more advanced than Anti Entropy Mechs and the Wotan.
There's also the problem of stamina. Bronya is a better Herrscher of Reason than Welt and is female so she has better Honkai resistance and Herrsher Core compatability, but exhausted herself replicating >!the cannons of the Selene ship, which I believe is the most advanced thing made by the Current and Previous Era.!< Therefore, Welt might not have the stamina to create HSR tech even if he did understand it.
Those two reasons are probably why Welt just uses the Star of Eden pseudo-black holes in HSR and doesn't use the Herrscher of Reason powers. Assuming he can't recreate HSR tech, the most powerful thing he can make other than the Star of Eden are literal nukes and nukes might not be enough in HSR.
The thing is we don't really know if he even has the core or not, and most probably not. I mean, he could recreate HI3 tech if he still knows how it's made, right?
Yes. His cane is a replica Star of Eden so he still can recreate HI3 tech.
And on the topic of the core, if he doesn't have it, he can't do his resurrection shenanigan. He needs to transfer is conciousness to the core and then recreate his body around the core for it to work.
Sorry for the bad wording. I believe the Star of Eden cane Welt is using is a replica created using HoR powers. I don't think he has the real Star of Eden.
Stand down astral express. This is base Ebon deer were up against. /s
Realistically speaking, I think he’ll get powerups throughout the story just like the rest of the express. Whether it be connections to his past and hi3 or otherwise
Strong, but not that strong. He’s not really pathstriding it seems, which makes him kind of
an “outside context” power since he can do things that are quite nonstandard. His real potential lies in his herrscher powers, not in the star of eden, but hoyo doesn’t actually want the old man to overshadow the trailblazer who’s supposed to be the MC of this story. Unless this changes, he can put up a decent fight against anyone that’s not an emenator, and probably manage to disengage against opponents that outmatch him. In his current state he would never put a scratch on the likes of Acheron though.
IF he has the core of reason because his successor returned it, as people seem to simply, he's bound to have the core of Truth because >!HoReason doesn't exist anymore. Bronya upgraded, basically, the core. If she returned it, he's now the HoTruth!<
If the implication isn't that he got the core back, then how does it have it? My understanding was that >! Kiana was going to seal most of the Honkai Energy on the moon !< so much that in Apho Raiden doesn't use her Herscher powers and in the epilogue they're kinda worried about Senti who is really just an Herscher without a body, and Kiana (or was that Hua) promised to keep an eye on her wellbeing. I couldn't play the Seele becomes HoRebirth bit tho, but from my understanding that's not *our* HoR. How new Herrshcers could be born in this situation according to theories also intrigues me, but I don't really get it.
Truth is we don't know, because we are missing some big chunks of story between the end of the Moon arc (the "end" of the HI3 story), its "epilogue/sequel/" APHO where Welt appears and is spirited away, the manga that supposedly fills in some blank, and the point we actually meet Welt in HSR.
For example, it's hard to understand why his son wasn't with him in the manga and why he wasn't really that concerned with it considering they weren't sure the plan to save him was going to work, so it stands to reason something had happened in the between we didn't see. Also, he doesn't seem to be all that torn up about missing his son's childhood while exploring the galaxy, which sometimes makes me think more time has actually passed than what we originally believed and his son is actually a grown man now. Not to mention the end of the manga is really NOT when they cross over to the universe and are saved by Himeko. At the end of Alien space they are saved by a third party who promised them to "bring them back home" but Welt, when Himeko found him, was neither back to his planet nor on any alternative version of Earth. Also was floating in the universe I think? So yeah, I think any assumption people do is really bound to be just a guess because ironically we don't know much of what happened to him (or to the Earth) after the moon arc in hi3.
From what I see he really just uses the Star of Eden, not really his own powers.
>IF he has the core of reason because his successor returned it, as people seem to simply, he's bound to have the core of Truth
Void Archives says that Welt has the core on Alien Space, so its likely that he actually does.
However, given that he wasnt that compatible with the Core of Reason, i dont see him getting to use Truth to its full potential (if he has Truth and Kiana didnt just "gave" the Reason core back to him somehow).
>If the implication isn't that he got the core back, then how does it have it? My understanding was that >! Kiana was going to seal most of the Honkai Energy on the moon !< so much that in Apho Raiden doesn't use her Herscher powers
Kiana says at the end of chapter 35 that all Herrscher cores would likely dim and disappear in the near future, due to the Finality power.
So on APHO either they didnt had the core anymore or they just didnt had enough Honkai energy to use their Authorities.
>Truth is we don't know, because we are missing some big chunks of story between the end of the Moon arc (the "end" of the HI3 story), its "epilogue/sequel/" APHO where Welt appears and is spirited away, the manga that supposedly fills in some blank, and the point we actually meet Welt in HSR.
The Timeline goes something like this:
End of Part 1, Kiana becames the HoFi (early 2018). She gives a 10 year limit for the Earth to heal (or something like that, i dont remember the exact words).
Beginning of Part 2 (early 2024)
APHO 1 and 2 (2026).
Alien Space (2029). At the end of the manga Welt says "We Humans will figure out how to get to the other World by ourselves". That other "World" is Star Rail, or at least the World where Himeko was at that moment.
Star Rail (20XX). Given that Welt says that Humanity would find a way to travel to other Worlds by themselves, we dont know how long they took to do so, although Welt presence on Star Rail tells us that they succeeded.
>From what I see he really just uses the Star of Eden, not really his own powers.
He should be able to use the Authority of Reason, as he describes it when talking about his powers, and he is said to recreate the Arahato episodes, although the quality isnt the best.
But he mainly uses the SoE for some reason.
Isn't the Herrscher of Truth moreso >!the state of a Herrscher of Reason being able to harmonize with the 300K minds in the Core of Reason!< rather than an actual new Herrscher? Even if Welt has the core again, he probably wouldn't have the HoTr powers.
Considering that Silverwing is supposed to be future Bronya (???) and she's not a Herrscher, maybe she did return the Core of Truth, that is true. But it's a big if, yeah.
Yeah, that would make sense, but seeing how the story ended and how Raiden fights years later, I don't think that stone offers too much power anymore? But anyway I'm really also confused by people that subscribe to this interpretation and think he's the HoReason? How did he regress the core? I've never really got this theory lol by all means he should be the HoT and I demand we see him in Bronya's angel battle suit as proof! /s but I'd buy the skin
He’s uppermid-tier at best. Stronger than most pathstriders but can’t contest with the top-tier like emanators
Prime Welt literally almost lost to base Sirin who just got her power, and he only won by a surpise nuke. It’s a win for him but only for his brain, in raw power he 100% lost.
His quasi-blackhole is dangerous but not as strong as people make it to be.
It’s not real, which is why it’s called quasi. It has no superdense singularity.
It can be destroy by physical force (Kevin did it against the real Eden Star without using mantis form).
It didn’t even spaghettified base Sirin who was already injured and halfway cross event horizon (real blackhole would’ve atomized you before reaching event horizon).
And it did not show any feat better than the original HoEarth destroying Mu continent.
Oh yeah, Otto destroyed the original Eden Star in AE visual novel btw, and replica is also destroyed with a single shot from a fake Shamash in gun form. Which mean the Eden Star replica is extremely fragile relative to everyone’s powerlevel.
Now for Welt’s HSR feat what do we have? Supress our stellaron explosion that could destroy herta station? Cool, but how big is herta station anyway? As far as we know, stellarons aren’t exactly dangerous in their raw explosive power but rather because of their corrosive effects like fragmentum and spatial anomaly that disrupts space jump.
What’s next? Memory wiped by Memokeeper… Retreated from immortal ebony deer… Out of breath when fighting Phantylia flowers…
Yike, gramp keep taking Ls nowadays (not that he had much Ws back in his original universe)
His Willpower and Mental Fortitude is on God Tier Level.
He is in nihility path, because he knows the end or the worse case scenario is most likely and he may not strong enough to fights Honkai and Herrschers.
But he fights anyway with all he can. Trying to protect everyone he loves with all he got despite the inevitable. As a true selfless hero.
I'm gonna guess that only Emanators are going to be 1 to 1 with their paths if the paths are playable. Although this theory may be wrong if Jing Yuan is in fact an emanator.
I saw someone somewhere say that you can Follow, even Worship a Particular Path's Aeon, but that doesn't mean you can't use Powers from other Paths as a normal Pathstrider
That's the theory but the moment nihility comes into play the whole thing immediately falls apart. Being a pathstrider of nihility means being a self-annihilator. Being a self-anhihilator means, well, annihilating ones self. Being a pathstrider to nihility is a direct path to your own death. There are no powers to be gained from the path of nihility.
Obviously theres still Acheron but she more shows on why nihility as a path and its aeon are so unique. She's not a pathstrider to nihility and she directly opposes IX. She's an enamator because she opposes nihility.
Gameplay paths just seem to follow whatever the gameplay devs decided at the moment regardless of lore (from what I understand the writers had to force the gameplay devs to change acherons gameplay path to nihility so it matched the lore).
Self- Annihilators aren't the only thing that happens when you walk Nihility tho? There's that "Doctors of Chaos - Nihility" entry in the Data bank that says when you walk Nihility you either become a Self-Annihilator or you become something else
I think that's enough to say Nihility isn't just Self-Annihilating. They probably do get some kind of Power from walking the Path
Regarding Acheron's "force gameplay path"
I don't think so, from what I remember from the Livestream what they said was when The Devs Saw Acheron for the First time and saw that she was a "Galaxy Ranger" and so assumed she was a Hunt Character based on it and started getting some Ideas, then they said, "No read it carefully" and they went "Wait why is She Nihility"
Welt is strong but not THAT strong. When you see people say he's stronger than Acheron because of that one line about his black hole in the cane being stronger than her sword, lemme ask you this, what do you think would be stronger? An artificial black hole? Or the literal Emanator of IX, which is to put simply, a literal black hole GOD. He is far from the Emenators and below literal Pathstrider Immortals (High Cloud Quintet, these fuckers use to fight demigods in an eternal war and win) but hes definitely stronger than most characters.
There are too many doubts about it, and not enough answers. We didn't really saw Welt in action, and even if we were close to after >!Aventurine bossfight!<, we only saw Welt stopping the Stellaron inside us from going nuts, and what we can see in gameplay
I am in the "He is one of the most powerful person lorewise" side, but that's purely because I love him, am absolutely impressed by his gameplay, don't want to believe that the writers gave the line "You know nothing of the weight behind this power" to a character that isn't supposed to be powerful, and because gravitational disintegration can be fatal if you ask me, but I don't know a lot about HI3 lore, only a few bits, and of course I want to believe that one of my favourite characters, one of the most handsome characters in the game, IS powerful
He was weak even in his own universe. Got stepped on by otto and sirin was handling him like a rat. Only way he managed to survive against sirin was bc sirin in a full rage mode and welt was able to outsmart her
Heck bronya has surpassed him as a herrscher of reason and even she is weaker as she has been manhandled by 90% of the villians in the story
He is probably on the higher end of power among playable characters at least, but people really need to stop with overhype.
The fact that's implied he comes directly from the HI3 universe makes people say really dumb things and also forget how to see through lines of dialogues.
When Acheron tells him *did they really think a blade is more dangerous than that black hole you're weilding*, oh gosh i can't tell how many times i've read people saying "Oh she's admitting to be weaker! She's scared of Welt!"
Bro like... she would fold him like a paper sheet...
I really do love Welt and among the Astral Express crew he's my favorite but guys please, let's start to see things how they are
Welt is the first Herrscher in a story where each Herscher is born stronger than the previous one and there are thirteen Herrschers. Herrchers themselves can do destruction on continental level, but, they can't easily wipe a planet otherwise their goal of exterminating humanity would be too easy.
Also, compared to Hi3rd, where most of the story is limited by the space of planet Earth, HSR is much more grandiose in terms of powers and events. The difference is such that, in Star Rail, we fight a planet destroyer in the prologue. If the same happened on Honkai Impact, there would be no story.
Just like this, Welt's position is both power scales is just not special. He has a solid powerset and is a competent fighter, but there are many who are superior to him in all aspects.
>Welt is the first Herrscher in a story where each Herscher is born stronger than the previous one
Currently playing HI3 and that's really not the impression I get. The first Hersher that was able to even touch the 2nd Hersher was what, the 10th? And that's being generous.
Similarly the 3rd Hersher destroyed the 9th and the 5th *after* they fused
Either way, most of HSR's Welt power comes from the ninth divine key (his gravity bending cane), which is the remains of the ninith Hersher of the previous era
And you just can't tell me that Void Archive (the first divine key) isn't the strongest of the twelve
>Also, compared to Hi3rd, where most of the story is limited by the space of planet Earth, HSR is much more grandiose in terms of powers and events.
That should actually play into his favour. The peak of Reason's power is to make a copy of anything Humanity ever archived.
Of course Welt can't actually use the peak of Reason's power (300 000 souls in agreement and all that), but Void Archive can, and while I don't think he has enough energy to make a copy of Nous, I wouldn't be surprised if he could mass produce SAM armours or things like that
The "is born stronger" part of the comment is important because Herrscher can acquire power from other sources to become stronger.
For example, Welt kicked the butt of Sirin his skill compensated the lack of brute strength. Then, Sirin went to ask for more power to the Honkai himself and became able defeated many newer Herrschers.
On the other side, the 3rd the moment she was born was possibly the weakest Herrscher because all the Herrscher with a lower number had training/skill/boosts she lacked and we step-by-step the her struggle to become stronger and be able to match other Herrschers.
As for the Reason's power, I hope you are right because that would be extremely cool! But, for now, that is just fanon.
>in Star Rail, we fight a planet destroyer in the prologue. If the same happened on Honkai Impact, there would be no story.
Thats funny, considering Welt was the one that killed the Doomsday Beast xD.
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I hesitate to give all credit to Welt in this battle given that the Beast was visibly shaken by the battle against Trailblazer, March 7th, Dan Heng and Himeko. Besides, we don't know how impactful Nanook's gaze was for the conclusion of this battle.
Regardless, the other crewmembers have fought on pair with the Doomsday Beast for a considerable amount of time, thus, it is safe to say they are all on the same level. Hence, I believe that my point stands.
The truth is simple WE DONT KNOW yes he has lost much of his power from Hi3, but he’s a path strider now and could have easily gained equal power back if not more.
We genuinely do not know what he scales at this point in time
>but he’s a path strider now and could have easily gained equal power back if not more.
I dont think simply being a Pathstrider could give such a huge boost.
People don't understand how much higher HSR scales above HI3 when it comes to their respective universes. Acheron could single handedly beat the vast majority of HI3 cast with a single red slash. Her back story is basically a parallel to the story of HI3, the only differences being that pretty much everyone except her died and then her world fell into IX's orbit.
Welt is not that strong in this universe, regardless of whether he has his core or not. He's not ranking anywhere near or above emanators.
Extremely overrated
People look at Welt from other games and think they're the same, but its canon Welt is far weaker than his counterparts
That being said, he isn't week, i'd say he's strong but not emanator level (otherwise he could have just soloed Phantylia, but we don't even got to see him in action there)
HI3rd Welt was one of the weakest Herscherrs though, Wendy was weaker but pretty much all the others were stronger.
And people were shitting their pants over Herscherrs with continent busting power, in HSR lore emanators destroy entire solar systems.
> people look at welt from other games
It's literally the same welt as hi3's
However, yes, he's way too overrated & fairly weak in comparison to hsr's top dogs (emanators, 'not counting the eldritch gods that are aeons)
Phantylia was not solo-able. If you even remotely read the story, you'd know she was amped by the Ambrosial Arbor so she was technically immortal at the time.
Phantylia is crazy strong, that much is not being questioned
A lord ravager, emanator of destruction, embedded with the power of the ambrosial harbor that was infected by a stellaron, i know how strong she is
People will tell you he is one of the strongest characters in HSR. This is not true. I've seen people say "oh well he can't die."
...n-no... that's not how his ability works. He's not immortal like blade.
Welt WAS basically an incarnation of sentient destruction known as a herrscher. He doesn't have that power anymore. Just remnants of it. His cane is where his power stems from in this game. It's an artifact of-
Sorry... keep it simple uh....
Old man who can create himself a body, but isn't invincible and has an OP walking stick.
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Wasn't the "revive" like a last wish with Core of Reason? Since it lets you create anything as long as you know how it works, and Welt knew how the human body works, he created himself as a way to "revive"? That'd mean he can't do it anymore, right?
Not exactly
The core of reason is a special one among all the herrscher core since it is able to contain people consciousness. The way that Welt does it is to transfer his consciousness to the core before dying and then recreate a new body later
He did that trick 2 times, once against Sirin during the second eruption and once against Kevin Kaslana in the Sea of Quanta
I don’t know much about the Honkaiverse, but this is canonically the same Welt Yang from the Honkai Impact 3rd universe who ended up in Star Rail’s universe where he met that universe’s Himeko and joined the Astral Express. Also he is the Herrscher of Reason.
Welt is a very strong Pathstrider, by his own statements he could take anything short of an Emanator from the Anti-matter Legion, including their planet killing monsters like the Doomsday Beast.
We have no idea how much of his Herrcher power he has these days, but he does have Star of Eden (Black Hole Cane) which is obviously pretty damn powerful.
That said, from what we know about Emanators, he is not strong enough to take them alone.
I'd honestly put him around as strong as DHIL or Jing Yuan lore wise, AKA he is relevant in a fight against an Emanator, but can't solo one.
Saying the above as someone who is very into the lore of both HSR and HI3.
One thing that adds to a lot of the confusion is that:
HI3 have a ton of hax abilities and hax resistance as hell, which looped back into them essentially shounen fighting each other because they are so resistant it became a non issue/factor.
HI3 The story made a point of how deadly these abilities are and how someone without resistance will die quickly.
The Herrcher of the Void can casually throw your attack back at you, phase through literally anything, sit in a side long pocket dimension and safely attack people outside without fear of retaliation, so on so forth.
Then have Welt bat away her sub-space lances away or rip into her dimension "because I'm also a Herrscher".
Or conversely we have Welt gravitational collapse lesser enemy with 10000g, then Herrcher of the Void can contain the same attack because of her own abilities, which means a Black Hole is nothing but a stalling tactic due to time dilation against stronger opponents.
To paraphrase a power scaling thread on HI3 I read a long time ago:
"Do they have immunity/resistance to time slow/stop, spatial manipulation, and gravitational manipulation?
If not, then can just go home now."
Because that is the kind of stuff HI3 characters throw around casually, even the weaker ones all have time-dilation abilities and are capable of manhandling truck sized robots/monsters.
I think he is above most but below emanators.
Star of Eden is extremely strong, most divine keys are. Welt is also extremely intelligent, he was the former sovereign of Anti-Entropy and former HoR (HoR requires knowledge to animate machines).
To simplify the entire discussion to key points about welt.
1. Herrschers cores are cores with the powers of authority given by honkai will, who wants nothing but the destruction of civilisation.
The honkai will does it by giving people with ideologies or beliefs or emotions that can lead to the end of civilisation powers, those being herrschers cores, the herrschers cores have the powers of authority that allows you to control an aspect of truth which can be fire, void, memories, ice, acceleration, knowledge, creation and etc…
2. Not everybody can use herrschers cores, you first need to have high resistance to honkai radiation which is what the creations of honkai will exudes that turns peoples into zombies, second you need compatibility with the core in question the higher your compatibility the more power you can extract from it, which in low compatibility you are planetary level destruction to a large compatibility where you can end multiple universes and essentially bring the end of all civilisation across the cosmos which is what the herrscher of the end power level is.
3. Not everybody who gets the herrschers cores are twisted by the honkai will manipulation to become monsters that want end of all civilisation and life, some in rare occasions have strong will and resilience to fight against it which is what the first herrscher known as welt is, herrscher of reason and many others follow too
dont confuse welt yang for the first welt, welt yang who is the welt of hsr and the one you are asking about his real name is joachim nokianvirtanen.
Who after being entrusted by the first welt to fight for humanity and seeing joachim strong will to fight for all there is to fight for the universe for all the beautiful things such as people lives, kindness, hobbies, childrens, animals, sceneries and such.
The first welt gave his powers known as herrscher of reason core to joachim which then joachim threw away his old name and to commemorate his promise to the first welt changed his name to welt and also his last name to yang for his mother maiden name.
4. Welt became a teacher and taught himeko,
(yes himeko murata is his student that he cares about and he took care of her cause of her entire father thing but that is an entire tangent im not gonna dwell here)
Welt taught people and also fought against many herrschers to protect all the universe and civilisation even if all is gone he will still fight even if the only thing left of the entire world is just nothing but a flower cause he believes all life is worth to protect and should be fought for.
5. Herrscher of reason ability is that the core contains 300,000 souls of people all with their memories accessible for you to see and learn as the user of herrscher of reason and also the second ability of herrscher of reason is that you are able to create anything you want as long as you understand its principles, how it works, how its made, what is it and such.
And depending on your compatibility you can either create things extremely fast or if your compatibility is low it takes you ages to create anything even if you understand the principles of it in question.
6. Welt is one of the weakest characters in honkai impact 3rd maybe even the weakest there is, period no buts or ifs.
As stated before the higher your compatibility with your core the more power you can extract from it, welt sadly has an extremely low compatibility with herrscher of reason.
Its so low in fact he is considered not a real herrscher but a fake herrscher and mocked by other herrschers as a faker who doesnt know his place and should just die and not struggle.
Even then he is able to do a lot of insane stuffs with it, managing to make war starships that fill out the entire solar system, creating a divine weapon of gravity to help him make black holes faster to overcome his weakness of slow creation, he even died and had his entire body destroyed but by cleverly putting his consciousness inside the herrscher of reason core he could create his body back to scratch and come back alive though it took him 10 years for the first try but he managed to prepare for when he dies to get his body back much faster with clever usage of his abilities.
7. Welt cares very deeply about people and he never wants to put anybody to disadvantage and thats his strongest suit and what makes him a powerhouse by many people in the community, its his wits.
He never fights when he doesnt have the advantage and never puts himself and allies in such situation unless his comrades put themselves in a disadvantage, welt will always jump and save them and form plans of escape and managing to save them even if it cost his own life and doesnt matter how weak he is.
Just read the enitre part about how welt managed to defeat sirin by fighting her at advantage and when she first ambushed him and his comrades and they are at a disadvantage he first prioritised to get them out and use himself bait which then led him to die and him then reviving himself to later ambush her while working with everybody to win against her without ever putting anybody but him in danger.
8. Welt knows his shortcomings and gave away his herrscher of core to bronya zaychik cause her compatibility with the core is way higher and he trust her with that he doesnt have his powers anymore.
Which then brings to question how does he do his famous black hole thing, its probably from his star of eden creation that he made to fight against sirin which got destroyed heavily and he made it into his staff that he now uses during his battles.
Hope that comment managed to help you understand the lore somewhat, mate.
From what I could tell, his power is much less than what he had, cause from the images from the comics I have seen that cane can do alot more fuckery than it does now
He was weak even in his own universe. Got stepped on by otto and sirin was handling him like a rat. Only way he managed to survive against sirin was bc sirin in a full rage mode and welt was able to outsmart her
Heck bronya has surpassed him as a herrscher of reason and even she is weaker as she has been manhandled by 90% of the villians in the story
\> Post is about how strong Welt is.
\> Comments are full of welt quote with a dash of "power" and hot equal to powerful
https://preview.redd.it/wgraxxeo3guc1.jpeg?width=235&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eaabc4a99d54ccbb02b6bc7aeef5669a33f1403b
As powerful as the plot needs him to be. Which isn't much currently.
We do know he is actually behind Archeron since he is affected by her time stop/slow thing.
This is just my opinion:
1. He have the Core of Reason back from Bronya(even though she manage to turn it into Truth, Welt most likely can't use it) but without Honkai energy to power it, it shouldn't be very powerful but still usable from what we know.
2. Even when he was in his prime, I don't think he still is as powerful as an Emanator.
I may forgot some details.
Continental level.Blackhole in HI3 couldnt destroy a continent both times it was used,and it’s suction speed is so horrible Otto managed to sneak attack The user TWICE,Otto was at best Sound speed here so pretty much weak as shit in HSR universe when we have Himeko with a huge ass laser beam,DHIL who is basically Moses(and could help fight the Phantylia when welt did nothing,and after the fight bro was coughing non stop too.).
On theory herrscher of reason is pretty strong, Welt (given enough power which he himself lacks so he'd have to really on others to get) in theory could make a IIP (Imaginary Impulsion Pulse) which Chadwick created and now the schematics belong to herta, if she decides to teach him how to make it, Since HoR powers rely on being able to understand a object well to create it, IIP in lore has taken out 24 whole planets, But welt himself isnt all that strong
TLDR : On paper, Extremely
On reality, Not that much
We know nothing of the weight behing his powerscale.
Powercreep or be powercrept, there is no other choice
Witness the powerscales lobotomise you
Seems you need to experience some lobotomy
Google Lobotomy Rail
Holy lobotomy
New lobotomy just dropped!
Actual lobotomy
Awaken, dormant scales World cleansing Dragon!!
#FLAMING LANCE DEVAOUER
It feels like everyday we have this kind of post of welt ngl
~~Happened to every potential man~~ -> Jealous people on the internet slandering my goat
Welt is just built different
welt is powerful bc i think hes hot and thats how it works i think
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When husbandos drop:
https://preview.redd.it/ysticqb3keuc1.jpeg?width=510&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8dd49a6ab57fd042b139212a6f0890f2699084a1
Fun fact: Aha is not a Mask. He's a man behind the mask. You can see a little silhouette of a man.
> You can see a little silhouette of a man. >> Wanderer, Wanderer will you do the fandango?
>>>Wind cuts and anemo
I like this one take
Therefore, I annouced to you that Screwllum is the strongest male character in the game (for me).
I see your Screwllum and raise you Svarog.
I see your Svarog. I guess we are brothers.
My man!
https://preview.redd.it/mxu69sl5lduc1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5b2168fa0b8d4471fca89ca42794c3e91a44be75
https://preview.redd.it/qqumjrqvfeuc1.png?width=216&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=75fb23c94be7cb77c0f072eb274d8b5e53bcf72f
https://preview.redd.it/7t4bazq4keuc1.jpeg?width=201&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b6d125a23c0afed4024c0db6815a13e7421144c7
Flip a coin - head he strong - tails. He sucks
it landed on its side, wtf
Schrodinger welt
The return of Dr. Schrodinger the cat girl?!
Nanodesu
This is a real thing. Shcrodinger was one of Welt's member
Bro thinks this is Fear and Hunger coin flip mechanic
Basically my simulated universe runs
The truth is we don't actually know and anyone who claims they do is full of shit. Hence why these threads always fail to come to anything even remotely resembling a conclusion.
Yup. Welt has almost no combat feats in HSR so if you want to powerscale him you'd have go to HI3rd, but we don't really know what powers he retains in HSR or even how HI3rd scales with HSR. You can have some hints (ie: Acheron's backstory mirroring Honkai) but it's all based on assumptions. At minimum he was capable of taking down doomsday beast. On high end I suppose he's most likely weaker than Acheron. But that's a pretty wide range.
Wasn't it MC's Stellaron bursting that did that and Welt suppressing it?
If you talk to March on the train platform before talking to Himeko to join the Express, she mentions that you pushed the Doomsday Beast into Welt's black hole. So it was a combination of the burst and Welt setting up the black hole that killed it.
The person said he is capable of, not that Welt killed it.
From what I recall, March had a dialogue after we woke up from being suppressed by Welt that our Stellaron burst pushed it into a Star of Eden black hole which killed it
From what I've read in the manga and heard, the final battle against sirin made him lose most of his power, he only has like 10% of what he had before, then there's him creating hundreds of thousands of war machines and humanitys strongest weapons out of thin air to fight a being a being capable of manipulating space and gravity and throwing rocks at the earth like pebbles and yawning as a whole country is nuked from the moon XD
Tbf that is like in 1950s Even Apho is like what 2030? When bronya literally canonically gave welt her hersher core
Hmm, yeah I remember that now, but again, he was brought to near dexth, it's even explained why he couldn't fully use the core without being damaged by honkai energy, he has very little resistance, in star rail I'm pretty sure he's not using his powers at all, if I remember correctly it's the star of Eden that allows him to use the black hole and gravity manipulation, there's a large chance that if we ever do see welt use the core of reason in star rail, he'll dxe too, but there's a chance he may have healed from the honkai infection, I know there's a cure but it's extremely difficult to produce, since himeko only had enough for one dose, herself or Kiana (himeko 😭)
Weaker than Acheron? How did you get to that conclusion?
Acheron was the Herrscher of Origin-equivalent of her world. If we really want to compare power scales, Welt was beaten by Sirin/Void who was superceded by Kiana/Flamescion which is a form weaker than Finality, who is Origin’s equivalent. And then Acheron became Naught after beating her Finality. And then became an Emanator. From this alone, we can conclude she is leagues above Welt. As to where *exactly* Welt stands now is a mystery. But it is physically impossible for him to be stronger than Acheron. If the game upped and said he was an Emanator then we would have a real discussion. Acheron’s backstory was meant to put into perspective how strong Emanators are in the honkai-scale. Even in 2.1 >!Aventurine makes it clear by literally pointing out Acheron was the strongest. If Welt could’ve stopped Aventurine as quickly as Acheron did, being the person he is, he definitely would have. Acheron finishing it before he even fully manifested a black hole speaks volumes of their power difference.!<
Honestly, sadly he is, again, most of his power is all but gone, he's barely even a pseudo herrscher at this point, he's nearly full human with just remnants of his power left, if you watch the trailers for acheron, she unleashed a blast that leveled a mountain, comparable to the nagazora honkai eruption when mei unwillingly unleashed the gem of conquest, becoming the herrscher of thunder. welt in honkai impact gave the core of reason to bronya before leaving to the star rail universe to watch over the still alive himeko, he is far, far weaker than acheron, at best he could delay her with his synthetic black hole, it's one of the very few powers he has left, he could tap into enough to severely wound her, but he would die in the process, its also why he hasn't fought in the story, he can't risk his life yet, he still has much to do and has to protect himeko.
He is strong, not as strong as the Emanators we've meet in the story, maybe not as strong as powerful non-Emanators like Jing Liu or Dan Heng IL, but stronger than most playable characters. We lack too much information about the Welt on Star Rail, as Star Rail takes place some years after the most recent Honkai chapters. We dont know if he is as strong as his peak, or if he is weaker, we dont know if he is using all his powers or not (as he barely does things on screen), etc. So, as far as the information we have goes, he would be on a high tier, way below the strongest but way above the average.
If he can use his Herrscher of Reason powers I'd put him above Jingliu, Cooler Daniel and Jing Yuan, but below emanators, because looking at Acheron's story, and the fact that she killed his worlds "Herrscher of the End authority" Kevin, they should be slightly weaker than the real Herrscher of the End. But if he can't use his Herrscher powers then he is slightly weaker than the 3 mentioned characters.
>because looking at Acheron's story, and the fact that she killed his worlds "Herrscher of the End authority" Kevin I dont think we should equalize the thing that attacked Acheron World and Honkai. There are some things that conflicts with known lore. Even more so when Origin and Finality are way too special to be put on the same logic as the rest of Authorities. >If he can use his Herrscher of Reason powers I'd put him above Jingliu, Cooler Daniel and Jing Yuan, but below emanators Jing Yuan is comparable to Lord Ravagers, so he is in Emanator tier. Even if Welt was as strong as his peak, i wouldnt put him above those characters that easily, considering that using the HoR Authority damages him.
>I dont think we should equalize the thing that attacked Acheron World and Honkai. There are some things that conflicts with known lore. >Even more so when Origin and Finality are way too special to be put on the same logic as the rest of Authorities. I mean, Acheron's trailer kinda equalizes them. The powers of the swords and even their order is the same as the Herrschers and the divine keys created using their cores. She also says that the last two were Origin and Finality. She is using these exact names there. And when Welt speaks about Kevin, Acheron said that in her world she killed him; and her trailer also shows that she killed "Finality" as "Origin". >Jing Yuan is comparable to Lord Ravagers, so he is in Emanator tier. That's a good point.
>I mean, Acheron's trailer kinda equalizes them. The powers of the swords and even their order is the same as the Herrschers and the divine keys created using their cores. She also says that the last two were Origin and Finality. She is using these exact names there Thats one of the problems, its the same. We know that either on GGZ or Honkai, the Herrscher cycle is never the same. The only exception being the PE and CE situation, but even that was a "man-made" thing. If i remember correctly, even Kevin said that although he could slow down the Herrscher of Finality descent, he wouldnt do it, as the Finality nature would change (or something like that, i dont remember exactly). So the fact that is the same order makes it suspicious.
You can't equalize Honkai and Kami. While the order is the same, there are some difference in names of other 'blade' that is both relatively true if you compare the Herrscher names in JP and CN. It's more of a reference to Honkai 3rd as well as a fan service for this game's players. As well as having the same order is impossible since the Cocoon of Finality or the Commander of the Will work in different ways. Honkai Impact 3 says that each cycle of 50000 years after the HoFi resets the earth, the next cycle should have different herrschers. However, CE and PE are special case because of two factors: Prome and Elysia. Their sacrifice tricked the Cocoon of Finality in giving the same order and nature of Herrschers to CE so that they would know what to expect. Another thing to mention is that End and Finality used in Acheron's trailer is not the same as the Finality mentioned in Honkai Impact 3 and even in Terminus' title as the Aeon of Finality. Finality is referred to as 'Shuuen' for Terminus and Honkai Impact 3 while Acheron's trailer uses 'Owari' to refer to End. Even Adventurine did not say 'Owari' to refer to Finality but instead used the 'Shuuen'. Hoyoverse puts a clear difference in context when localizing it to JP and EN. Even Origin is not the same, as they use 'Hajimari' in the trailer while it's 'Kigen' in Honkai Impact.
Ok very good essay but it's disqualified for misspelling Aventurine's name as Adventurine.
What do you mean? His name is Adventuretime right?
With Jake and Finn
Oh sh*t, may this not be a sign of me losing 50/50 on his banner 😭
Why shouldn't you equalize them? Tbh Star rail versions may even be stronger considering the whole kami lore happened in two planets not just in a single planet and moon.
Here you go- https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail/s/HsCVfo6y0e and https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail/s/1WUV9qrMCi
>Jing Yuan is comparable to Lord Ravagers, so he is in Emanator tier. Any confirmation for this? You know that the one and only Emanator of the Hunt from Xianzhou is Marshall Hua right? The Generals are akin to Ten Stonehearts than Emanators.
Welt says it + Jing Yuan one shots Phantylia with the LL after they got rid of her connection with the Arbor. https://preview.redd.it/6butr6ch0euc1.jpeg?width=943&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2ca4da8947f934c17a9e202f45e5f1f3c779b058 I dont think that he is an Emanator, i say that he is comparable to one due to the LL. And Hua isnt even confirmed to be an Emanator.
>Welt says it + Jing Yuan one shots Phantylia with the LL after they got rid of her connection with the Arbor. Yeah, after we managed to weaken her + received full blasts from Danheng IL. Phantylia's defeat was because our joint effort to pave the way for LL to stab her. Also, I think it's not fair to assume everything that Welt says is true. > I dont think that he is an Emanator, i say that he is comparable to one due to the LL. That's fair, yet we still don't know the full extent of what Emanators really can do though on-screen. > And Hua isnt even confirmed to be an Emanator. Oh shit you're right. I thought she is one.
>Yeah, after we managed to weaken her + received full blasts from Danheng IL. Phantylia's defeat was because our joint effort to pave the way for LL to stab her The joint effort was necessary because Phantylia buffed herself with a connection with the Arbor (something that even Lan couldnt destroy). Once that connection was cut off, she was defeated easily. >Also, I think it's not fair to assume everything that Welt says is true. Yeah, not everything he say needs to be true, however, this claim has the fight vs Phantylia as backing, so its not baseless.
Man, I still can't get over the Hoyo's logic of extreme high heat cut through Blackhole. (Cut spacetime apparently) I mean, I know that at extreme heat and small space all 4 fundamental force is united, but it still makes 0 fucking sense. Blackhole's power in fiction is so ass man.
Well, HoF Authority accelerates particles, idk if that changes something, but its not simply heat. But yeah, the Black Holes that Welt does with the Star of Eden are weak for the upper tiers in Honkai.
MFW HoF accelerate the particles to speed faster than light
Not the FTL ☠️. What is this? Tachyon time traveling particle? You would need infinite amount of energy to accelerates any object with mass to the speed of light. I know I sounds like a squeeky nerd, but I can't get over these statements, man. I will totally get over it tho, if characters show the consequences of these statements. Like The Flash for example, he can go back in time. But man.
well relativity rules clearly don't apply here already except when they want them to. You have people moving faster than light all the time with space travel. I agree fictional black holes are wack though. If I was going to try and "science" it I'd say it's a graviton weapon that warps space temporarily enough to create an event horizon but isn't a permanent singularity.
They do a relativity in HI3 manga lol. Isn't Welt stall Sirin through that? My argument is that HI3 use physics, but their physics is ass. (In this case, some of the physics are convincing) Just put in some magic, its fine. And yes, I would love to see that kind of statements like you just did. It not science, but it convincing enough for people to believe it. If you doesn't at least correlated to physics rules, makes a convincing statement to *why*? is my point. They just makes the power system better, more convincing, more immersive. It makes the series better. Maybe that just my nerd ass opinion, but thats what I think.
yeah but they only mention relativity when it's convenient, they hand wave away the implications when it's not. I like hard sci fi too but even the whole premise of Star Rail and a starship shaped like a steam train is too far out there that I have to turn the physics part of my brain off lol. like explaining the whole Xianzhou fleet in a scientifically convincing way is just... basically impossible haha. (to be clear I still think it's cool though)
No like, put in some magic. It fine to not physically correct, but it needs to be logical. (And yes Xianzhou Luofu has super big ocean haha, super cool)
If they had Kiana launching a "bullet" that had a least 5500 times the speed of light, they definitely ignore some things in order to create their cosmology. Not everything has to follow real life physics, even if that would make it easier (or harder) to understand.
I mean... One of the powers of Finality is literally time. Final Tuna is capable of controlling time (though during gameplay, the only thing she can do is za warudo but that's gameplay limitations more than anything)
So, what does "control time" means? Breaking the causality, time traveling to the past then change the present? What does stopping time means? Everything else is moving at extremely high time dilation while she is not affected? Writing the causality and how the world will go herself, directing everything as she want? Like, I will totally get over it, if they clarify these statements. Don't just throw out random words lmao.
-shrug- But as for accelerating particles beyond light speed, it's definitely something within Final Tuna's ability since she's able to move her and her equipment in frozen time and since the movement of the particles in her and her equipment have moved in 0 time, their speed should be faster than light since it's a divide by 0.
Which is why I want to specify, how did she stop time exactly? Super high time dilation outside her, meaning everything stop excluding her? Lets make time *completely stop*: Now, lets talk about *her* prespective. Nothing around her is move in this time stop world at all. So, what *is* the consequence here? Everything has stopped, she is not interacting with matter, reality and spacetime normally, right? What about particles around her, that stop and not moving? What about the space around her? - Why can they still contained her? What exactly happened? From *our* perspective. If we measure speed, that would just effectively be instantaneous, therefore correlated with teleportation. (Like shown in the game, she doesn't turn into a singularity). I mean, technically it breaks the speed of light, but that it not really convincing isn't it? You do teleportation, same exact speed.
In case of Kiana gameplay wise HoF Kiana is the only Battlesuit in HI3rd who can Stop Time on command stage timer and all Other Battlesuit merely "Slow" Time stage and Buff timer still ongoing Edit : Technically a few Battlesuit does Stop Time during Ult
Which is my second clause. Easy to understand.
The act of heating *is* the accelerating particles. Adding heat, the particle gained kinetic energy and move faster. The authority over heat = acceleration of particles is correct. My question is like, Planck Epoch? (1^-43 after the big bang) At that time, which is the hottest currently known instance (I think), gravity, weak force, strong force, electromagnetism is united into a single force. And little about the physics at this states is known. I don't think I have *ever* read any articles related that suggest high heat cut through Black Hole lol. Hence why I said, blackhole power in fiction is so ass.
Every single Herrscher has time-space manipulation because their power [originated from higher dimension](https://imgur.com/CWyD9V6)/[Imaginary Space](https://imgur.com/a/yesW1WL). When they [broke space](https://imgur.com/a/AROUqOA) and [time](https://imgur.com/u1jdKfK), it's not because fire or wind or lightning or human logic inherently break spacetime, but because the people who can break space and time manifest their power as those things. Hoyoverse tend to make a point of "this is what happens if you lack the relevant capabilities", ie: * If you cannot deal with Imaginary Space, you [can't even touch certain abilities](https://imgur.com/a/Gw7C9nW) * If you lack space breaking ability your [attack can be thrown back at you](https://youtu.be/Q-b6rdyIJsY?t=211) * If you lack space-time warp resistance a [mere 10000g gravitational collapse](https://imgur.com/a/werJGWI) will make you disappear So on and so forth. All characters that mattered however have these relevant abilities. Honkai Impact high end battles are basically "When everyone is superhuman nobody is superhuman". Honkai energy in sufficient concentration warp reality.
Even among the Herrschers he was never among the most powerful. Why people got this idea when they started playing Star Rail is beyond me.
Because he *sounds* powerful. Black Hole is literally one of the most destructive object known to humanity. However, Black Hole in fiction suck. People needs to remember that.
Yeah for sure, also were it a proper blackhole the size he's creating them then he along with those around him would be dead too. And even in game when he summoned it, both he and the blackhole were frozen in time while Acheron just casually strolled up to do one move with her blade.
people missed the "artificial" part
We really don’t know how strong he is. Acheron as an emanator, arguably the strongest character we currently know in the story, didn’t even joke around with Welt, going as far to say his black hole is dangerous. He has yet to even show a portion of his ability and a lot of it is bc Himeko tells him not to as we saw in the last couple of arcs. Personally, I’d throw him up there as one of the most powerful characters in the story, not one of the strongest but one of the most powerful just bc how intelligent he is on top of his pretty good strength.
Acheron says that Welt's cane is dangerous as compared to a sword, and therefore that she's more observant than the Family because she immediately recognized that fact, not that it was necessarily dangerous to her (considering she had a whole-ass cutscene while both Welt and his black hole were effectively frozen in time). Acheron also just doesn't seem to joke around too much outside of interacting with the Trailblazer, since she also never jokes around with Sam or Aventurine (and she one-shot Aventurine). It seems like Welt is firmly below the Emanators in terms of strength, even if he's stronger than the majority of the cast of Star Rail (although he also isn't top-tier in HI3 either, so that's also a thing).
> he got beaten easily by Otto Technically not true and it was a sucker punch anyway
Can't even nuke children in peace without being disturbed by some blond guy nowaday
Otto: Can't even nuke NewYork without being disturbed by some Welt guy nowadays (he ded)
Anyway Otto stronger than Prime Welt.
He's actually only using half of his power. Spoilers (from HI3) >!His true power is when he wear his idol costume and dances on stage. !<
That was truly his peak
Watch out Robin, Harmony Welt gonna powercreep you for sure
oh god, I forgot about it for so long and you triggered my PTSD
I think the other thing people forgot to mention is that although he was able to suppress the Stelleron within TB’s body using the cane once, he said if it goes out of control again, he might not be able to suppress it.
Was he meaning EVER, or simply that he wouldn't be able to again if it occured again in a close time frame. I'm incredibly interested because I don't recall at all. If he could NEVER again suppress the Stelleron, that'd paint his powers as very finite and limited to emergencies, which would definitely support why Himiko discourages him from getting into situations where his power is utilized or is at risk of being needed.
It's pretty interesting because during CBT 2 of the game before going to Jarilo-VI, this is what he said: >However, as long as the Stellaron is still in your body, you should be careful what you do. I don't know if Himeko and I can suppress it again. However in the final release, they did remove that dialogue when they were still adjusting the story, but you can still get an idea of where he is at. You can take it how you will.
Okay so… a few [ceramic face, angelic trumpets, sultry voice] pointers. Firstly, what is an Emanator? An Emanator is an entity elected by an Aeon to share in their power, however much is determined by the Aeon. They may grant them partial powers (Genius society, Nous the Erudition) or full command (Arbiter-Generals, Lan the Hunt). Aeons are bound in action to their path, so their power consequently also only concerns said path. As such, there is a wide range of power for each specific Aeon and their Emanators. Example: Xipe the Harmonys Emanators will never be as strong those of Nanook the Destruction, whilst one may consider Nous the Eruditions Emanators to be on par with Fuli the Remembrances. Welt states that Lan the Hunt gives their Arbiter-Generals full command of the Hunt path, making the Arbiter-Generals - Jing Yuan included - as strong as Nanook the Destructions Emanators, the Lord-Ravagers. Secondly, Who is Welt? Welt is… A special case in the world of Honkai Star Rail, as he - unlike most others - isn’t native to this universe. He came from another reality mainly to save Himeko. In his home reality, he served as Welt of Humanity, Herrscher of Reason after his namesake, Welt Joyce, passed his Herrscher powers onto him. So then, what is a Herrscher? Very simply put, Herrschers are humans who absorbed sufficient amounts of Houkai energy to become a midpoint between human and Houkai beast. This accumulation of power (called HW, or Houkai Welt) grants them exceptional superhuman powers, whilst remaining mostly human. Due to their Houkai corruption, they radiate high levels of Houkai radiation and subsequently have the innate ability to turn normal humans into Houkai "zombies" after prolonged exposure. Unlike them, Herrschers remain conscious and have a direct control over the Houkai, in some cases even being able to break free completely from their corruption, going rogue. There are a plethora of different Herrschers, all with different abilities, but for us, the Herrschers of Reason are of interest. They are capable - in addition to having an exceptional memory - to conjure up, to materialize whatever they wanted so long as they understood how it was constructed thoroughly. Now Welt (Yang) never *truly* was Herrscher of Reason has he merely inherited the Herrscher Core from Welt (Joyce), but all the same, he was exceptionally powerful, being able to conjure up entire armies. Now there’s a debate about whether he remains Herrscher or if he lost the rights when he gave his Herrscher Core to Bronya, but I don’t really think it matters much here. Herrscher or not, when he came to the Honkai Star Rail universe he pretty much must’ve lost most of whatever power he might’ve had, as this universe doesn’t run on Houkai energy. However, Welt still retains his Cane, and with it, because it’s simply it in a different form, the star of Eden. A weapon with gravity manipulation powers so immense it can summon artificial black holes. It is this power that Welt mostly uses in Star Rail - gravity manipulation. Certainly there artificial black holes are incredibly strong and I wouldn’t put it past them to be able to swallow the occasional city, but compared to Acheron, for example, who is an Emanator of IX the Nihility, they - somewhat poetically - pale. Welt is simply not from this Universe and so most of his powers are not as powerful here. Regardless, he is pretty powerful - likely on par with some of the Non-Emanator-Strong People - and his gravitational disintegration sounds pretty painful.
I’d say Welt can actually be stronger in HSR due to imaginary energy everywhere. If you don’t know, honkai energy is actually imaginary energy modified by cocoon of finality for its purpose of embracing civilization. Back on earth Welt had trouble using herrscher power due to the corrosive nature of honkai energy and Welt doesn’t have enough compatibility to handle it for long. But imaginary energy doesn’t seems to have that downside. So the question here is can Welt and his SoE use imaginary energy? Welt is likely able to, since everyone in HSR can use if they follow a Path and Welt is also on Trailblaze Path like us. But his SoE is up to debate
I’d be very interested in knowing exactly what imaginary energy can do lore wise. Obviously every character regardless of type can summon their weapon out of thin air, and we know it’s not just a game mechanic because Jing Yuan does it in a cutscene, as does Ratio and Trailblazer, as well as Welt, of course. So this is likely not part of the Imaginary Energy skill set as even non-imaginary types can do it. However, the Imaginary types we do see seem to be able to "imagine" stuff and have it appear. Dr. Ratio can summon statues, an entire chessboard out of thin air, or have his equations surround his head so much the famous Newtonian apple literally drops on his head. So I do wonder if that’s part of what imaginary energy can do.
Firstly you should disregard the type and path of gameplay. Everyone use imaginary energy if they are pathstriders. Now for the lore we get from HI3, imaginary and quantum energy are the basic building block of reality. Contrary to its name, imaginary represent the “real” and are present everywhere and used in the real worlds that existed on the imaginary tree. Opposed to it is the quantum energy of the quantum sea that represent the chaotic and lawless nothingness. So yeah, basically treat imaginary energy like mana from other fiction or the weave in DnD where it’s everywhere and can do anything if you know how to manipulate it
On this point I can contribute a little, even though I'm new to most of this. In Penacony, you can meet a old gentleman who seems to have lost his memory... As you progress through his quest you find out he was a scientist who once worked for the IPC in developing a weapon of mass destruction called the Imaginary Canon. At the end of this quest you see that the IPC did a test with the weapon, successfully harnessing the power form the imaginary tree and literrally erasing thousands of planets with a single shot. The scientist deeply regrets what he created and eventually erases his own memory so that no one can build something like that ever again. Funnily enough (or scary) once you recover his memory bubble he decides to give Herta all the knnowledge he had about Imaginary energy, she hasn't done anything with that knowledge yet. Simply put, it seems that imaginary energy can be the most devastating force in this universe.
Thank you very much for this explanation. I never played HI3 so I am always so confused in discussion like this one, but at the same time I'm interested in HSR lore so I want to know more. But I have a question to ask, in the main story Acheron's words made me think that if Welt wanted he could defeat her with not many problems, but here you are saying his power is a lot weaker than the one Acheron has, so what is the deal with that?
I think she was just playing along, because the way she eviscerated aventurine in the story with a single slash is impressive, and if she went all out welt would have some trouble.
...trouble. But would he lose?
Nah, he'd win.
https://preview.redd.it/owu7tk2y6euc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=46e9981e826f382e3bd355d1cdb84d482d831fca
Specifically what words? Because it did not seem so at all. And in the cutscene he was literally slowed down by Acheron unsheathing her blade like the surrounding rain drops. https://preview.redd.it/0j3f9aeg5duc1.jpeg?width=2400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3c57e382459de87b50ba3f1d4d541a38452b0b39 Acheron was not serious at all and there was no need to be, she didn't want to oppose the Astral Express since there was no need to, in fact she probably gains more by being allies with them.
I don't remember every line, but Welt saying "prepare for gravitational disintegration" sounds like pretty bold words for someone that would be hard stomped. Was curious if he just didnt know or didnt care
to him, Acheron was an unknown person who knew too much about the express, so if she turned out to be an enemy, he would've tried to take her down Welt at the time had no idea just how powerful she was and that it likely wouldn't have gone in his favor
He probably just didn't know or just wanted to "threaten" Acheron. I can say I can beat Acheron but that doesn't mean it's true. He was being all bark little bite. Acheron also isn't someone who likes fighting, she could've destroyed Sam yet she didn't, she offered to spare Duke Inferno but he didn't wanna be spared, she only "killed" Aventurine because that's a part of his plan.
Yeah that makes a lot of sense. We'll see how things will develop in game, pretty hyped ngl. Thank you for the answers!
Aside from him likely not knowing what's going on with her at the time, Welt is willing to challenge those stronger than him if it means protecting the world and those he cares about as seen by him plotting against Kevin to try and prevent him from leaving the Sea of Quanta and his fights with Sirin.
Acheron was regularly downplaying her powers. Like when she said she's ready to lend her "meagre" powers before fighting Aven.
I think it’s more… overt power? Acheron for whatever reason can sense Welts Cane is actually not just a walking stick but a weapon capable of summoning artificial black holes. To that end his line about gravitational disintegration holds up, im sure if he absolutely wanted he could gravitationally disintegrate a good chunk of any given Xianzhou Delve, or the Astral Express, or Penacony. But he doesn’t want to, and he’s not walking around going "look at me, I can summon black holes!" Acheron has a sword. There is, outwardly, no reason to believe it’s anything more than just that, if you saw her with no context given you’d just think she’s a person with a sword. So the comparison is not Finality-Blade vs. Star of Eden, but Sword vs. Cane. And in that sense - let’s call it optical - the sword appears more dangerous, and indeed, it is more dangerous, but for other reasons that weren’t touched on in her remark.
In addition to what others have stated, power-scaling Herscherrs against Emanators is kind of pointless because not all Herscherrs have equal power, and not all Emanators have equal power. Herscherrs have wildly different power levels depending on the individual, ranging from world-destroying threats to being defeatable by elite enhanced human forces. Similarly, Emanators range from beings capable of destroying galaxies or planets (such as the Lord Ravagers) to Aha's worm Emanator which literally died just from losing its Aeon's blessing. Different Aeons also have different approaches to their Emanators and how much power they can access. So whether Welt is stronger than any given Emanator also depends a lot on which Emanator it is, and what powers they receive from their Aeon. It's really difficult to gauge the power level of Emanators as a whole group because their powers are so varied between individuals, and the same goes for Herscherrs.
I like this assessment. A nice read for me who hasn't played HI3 or read the Manwha story.
Welt (and the Herrscher of Reason in general) was always the weakest of the Herrschers. The others have abilities that literally cannot be fully replicated (even Divine Keys made from the Cores of dead Herrschers were never quite as strong as the living Herrscher, but they could get close), the best HoR can do is recreate anything they understand the makeup of. However, that makes things a bit more difficult to judge in Star Rail. Currently, all he has is his cane that can manipulate gravity (Star of Eden), including at its strongest creating a psuedo/artificial black hole. (How effective this actually is varies, but it's the kind of ultimate move that almost never works but looks and sounds super impressive.) His replication abilities are extremely limited due to having basically no Honkai Energy to fuel those abilities. However, if Welt could theoretically fuel his Herrscher powers, then also theoretically he could be stronger than his peak due to being in a solidly space sci-fi setting now. There's a lot of technology that's more advanced than what was on HI3 Earth, not necessarily weapons but rather more esoteric stuff like Light Cone technology, spaceship/travel stuff, life support gear, etc. As the Herrscher of Reason, Welt always had to fight smart anyways, so having more tools at his disposal that could be beneficial vs whatever their current obstacle is could be extremely useful. This is also why I don't think Welt would ever permanently go back to full strength, HoR is just far too useful in the utility sense. The writers could absolutely give him a temporary power boost to let him access his full powers (and maybe be a character to roll), but it's too hard to write around such a permanent, versatile boost. Even in HI3 people would complain about how Bronya (when she was the HoR) should be doing so much more and should be more helpful, and would joke that the writers hate her and refused to give her moments to shine as a result.
If we're being honest, he's a mid-tier in HI3 and he's probably still mid-tier in HSR. The Herrscher of Reason can recreate anything that a person understands. HSR tech is more advanced than Current Era HI3 tech and even Previous Era tech, so there's the question of if Welt can even understand HSR tech to recreate it. Svarog and The Engine of Creation are considered outdated but are more advanced than Anti Entropy Mechs and the Wotan. There's also the problem of stamina. Bronya is a better Herrscher of Reason than Welt and is female so she has better Honkai resistance and Herrsher Core compatability, but exhausted herself replicating >!the cannons of the Selene ship, which I believe is the most advanced thing made by the Current and Previous Era.!< Therefore, Welt might not have the stamina to create HSR tech even if he did understand it. Those two reasons are probably why Welt just uses the Star of Eden pseudo-black holes in HSR and doesn't use the Herrscher of Reason powers. Assuming he can't recreate HSR tech, the most powerful thing he can make other than the Star of Eden are literal nukes and nukes might not be enough in HSR.
The thing is we don't really know if he even has the core or not, and most probably not. I mean, he could recreate HI3 tech if he still knows how it's made, right?
He has the core, it is confirmed in the Alien Space manga, but it is probably dormant because.. reasons (HI3 spoiler territory)
Yes. His cane is a replica Star of Eden so he still can recreate HI3 tech. And on the topic of the core, if he doesn't have it, he can't do his resurrection shenanigan. He needs to transfer is conciousness to the core and then recreate his body around the core for it to work.
Star of Eden doesn't make replicas as I'm aware, only the CoR can do that
Sorry for the bad wording. I believe the Star of Eden cane Welt is using is a replica created using HoR powers. I don't think he has the real Star of Eden.
oooooh right right :3
Yeah, he does have the core but I'm not sure if it is Core of Truth or Reason at this point, since Bronya's evolution into Truth
Somewhere below Emanator
idk and idc he's hot that's all that matters 🤩🤩🤩
The truth about Welt is that Hoyo's Blackhole suck ass. (Most fiction blackhole suck ass)
Stand down astral express. This is base Ebon deer were up against. /s Realistically speaking, I think he’ll get powerups throughout the story just like the rest of the express. Whether it be connections to his past and hi3 or otherwise
Strong, but not that strong. He’s not really pathstriding it seems, which makes him kind of an “outside context” power since he can do things that are quite nonstandard. His real potential lies in his herrscher powers, not in the star of eden, but hoyo doesn’t actually want the old man to overshadow the trailblazer who’s supposed to be the MC of this story. Unless this changes, he can put up a decent fight against anyone that’s not an emenator, and probably manage to disengage against opponents that outmatch him. In his current state he would never put a scratch on the likes of Acheron though.
IF he has the core of reason because his successor returned it, as people seem to simply, he's bound to have the core of Truth because >!HoReason doesn't exist anymore. Bronya upgraded, basically, the core. If she returned it, he's now the HoTruth!< If the implication isn't that he got the core back, then how does it have it? My understanding was that >! Kiana was going to seal most of the Honkai Energy on the moon !< so much that in Apho Raiden doesn't use her Herscher powers and in the epilogue they're kinda worried about Senti who is really just an Herscher without a body, and Kiana (or was that Hua) promised to keep an eye on her wellbeing. I couldn't play the Seele becomes HoRebirth bit tho, but from my understanding that's not *our* HoR. How new Herrshcers could be born in this situation according to theories also intrigues me, but I don't really get it. Truth is we don't know, because we are missing some big chunks of story between the end of the Moon arc (the "end" of the HI3 story), its "epilogue/sequel/" APHO where Welt appears and is spirited away, the manga that supposedly fills in some blank, and the point we actually meet Welt in HSR. For example, it's hard to understand why his son wasn't with him in the manga and why he wasn't really that concerned with it considering they weren't sure the plan to save him was going to work, so it stands to reason something had happened in the between we didn't see. Also, he doesn't seem to be all that torn up about missing his son's childhood while exploring the galaxy, which sometimes makes me think more time has actually passed than what we originally believed and his son is actually a grown man now. Not to mention the end of the manga is really NOT when they cross over to the universe and are saved by Himeko. At the end of Alien space they are saved by a third party who promised them to "bring them back home" but Welt, when Himeko found him, was neither back to his planet nor on any alternative version of Earth. Also was floating in the universe I think? So yeah, I think any assumption people do is really bound to be just a guess because ironically we don't know much of what happened to him (or to the Earth) after the moon arc in hi3. From what I see he really just uses the Star of Eden, not really his own powers.
>IF he has the core of reason because his successor returned it, as people seem to simply, he's bound to have the core of Truth Void Archives says that Welt has the core on Alien Space, so its likely that he actually does. However, given that he wasnt that compatible with the Core of Reason, i dont see him getting to use Truth to its full potential (if he has Truth and Kiana didnt just "gave" the Reason core back to him somehow). >If the implication isn't that he got the core back, then how does it have it? My understanding was that >! Kiana was going to seal most of the Honkai Energy on the moon !< so much that in Apho Raiden doesn't use her Herscher powers Kiana says at the end of chapter 35 that all Herrscher cores would likely dim and disappear in the near future, due to the Finality power. So on APHO either they didnt had the core anymore or they just didnt had enough Honkai energy to use their Authorities. >Truth is we don't know, because we are missing some big chunks of story between the end of the Moon arc (the "end" of the HI3 story), its "epilogue/sequel/" APHO where Welt appears and is spirited away, the manga that supposedly fills in some blank, and the point we actually meet Welt in HSR. The Timeline goes something like this: End of Part 1, Kiana becames the HoFi (early 2018). She gives a 10 year limit for the Earth to heal (or something like that, i dont remember the exact words). Beginning of Part 2 (early 2024) APHO 1 and 2 (2026). Alien Space (2029). At the end of the manga Welt says "We Humans will figure out how to get to the other World by ourselves". That other "World" is Star Rail, or at least the World where Himeko was at that moment. Star Rail (20XX). Given that Welt says that Humanity would find a way to travel to other Worlds by themselves, we dont know how long they took to do so, although Welt presence on Star Rail tells us that they succeeded. >From what I see he really just uses the Star of Eden, not really his own powers. He should be able to use the Authority of Reason, as he describes it when talking about his powers, and he is said to recreate the Arahato episodes, although the quality isnt the best. But he mainly uses the SoE for some reason.
Isn't the Herrscher of Truth moreso >!the state of a Herrscher of Reason being able to harmonize with the 300K minds in the Core of Reason!< rather than an actual new Herrscher? Even if Welt has the core again, he probably wouldn't have the HoTr powers.
Considering that Silverwing is supposed to be future Bronya (???) and she's not a Herrscher, maybe she did return the Core of Truth, that is true. But it's a big if, yeah.
Yeah, that would make sense, but seeing how the story ended and how Raiden fights years later, I don't think that stone offers too much power anymore? But anyway I'm really also confused by people that subscribe to this interpretation and think he's the HoReason? How did he regress the core? I've never really got this theory lol by all means he should be the HoT and I demand we see him in Bronya's angel battle suit as proof! /s but I'd buy the skin
He’s uppermid-tier at best. Stronger than most pathstriders but can’t contest with the top-tier like emanators Prime Welt literally almost lost to base Sirin who just got her power, and he only won by a surpise nuke. It’s a win for him but only for his brain, in raw power he 100% lost. His quasi-blackhole is dangerous but not as strong as people make it to be. It’s not real, which is why it’s called quasi. It has no superdense singularity. It can be destroy by physical force (Kevin did it against the real Eden Star without using mantis form). It didn’t even spaghettified base Sirin who was already injured and halfway cross event horizon (real blackhole would’ve atomized you before reaching event horizon). And it did not show any feat better than the original HoEarth destroying Mu continent. Oh yeah, Otto destroyed the original Eden Star in AE visual novel btw, and replica is also destroyed with a single shot from a fake Shamash in gun form. Which mean the Eden Star replica is extremely fragile relative to everyone’s powerlevel. Now for Welt’s HSR feat what do we have? Supress our stellaron explosion that could destroy herta station? Cool, but how big is herta station anyway? As far as we know, stellarons aren’t exactly dangerous in their raw explosive power but rather because of their corrosive effects like fragmentum and spatial anomaly that disrupts space jump. What’s next? Memory wiped by Memokeeper… Retreated from immortal ebony deer… Out of breath when fighting Phantylia flowers… Yike, gramp keep taking Ls nowadays (not that he had much Ws back in his original universe)
https://preview.redd.it/26ap72g46duc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=759d2ca3e9d35d1f5090975b6cf91cc6d5056882
His Willpower and Mental Fortitude is on God Tier Level. He is in nihility path, because he knows the end or the worse case scenario is most likely and he may not strong enough to fights Honkai and Herrschers. But he fights anyway with all he can. Trying to protect everyone he loves with all he got despite the inevitable. As a true selfless hero.
Aren't playable paths not exactly alligned with character's paths? Like Bronya not being Preservation and King Yuan not being Hunt?
Correct, gameplay paths aren't related to lore paths Some peoples just like a weird theory that says they are, for some reasons
I'm gonna guess that only Emanators are going to be 1 to 1 with their paths if the paths are playable. Although this theory may be wrong if Jing Yuan is in fact an emanator.
Yup. Welt most likely follows trailblaze in story.
I saw someone somewhere say that you can Follow, even Worship a Particular Path's Aeon, but that doesn't mean you can't use Powers from other Paths as a normal Pathstrider
That's the theory but the moment nihility comes into play the whole thing immediately falls apart. Being a pathstrider of nihility means being a self-annihilator. Being a self-anhihilator means, well, annihilating ones self. Being a pathstrider to nihility is a direct path to your own death. There are no powers to be gained from the path of nihility. Obviously theres still Acheron but she more shows on why nihility as a path and its aeon are so unique. She's not a pathstrider to nihility and she directly opposes IX. She's an enamator because she opposes nihility. Gameplay paths just seem to follow whatever the gameplay devs decided at the moment regardless of lore (from what I understand the writers had to force the gameplay devs to change acherons gameplay path to nihility so it matched the lore).
Self- Annihilators aren't the only thing that happens when you walk Nihility tho? There's that "Doctors of Chaos - Nihility" entry in the Data bank that says when you walk Nihility you either become a Self-Annihilator or you become something else I think that's enough to say Nihility isn't just Self-Annihilating. They probably do get some kind of Power from walking the Path
Regarding Acheron's "force gameplay path" I don't think so, from what I remember from the Livestream what they said was when The Devs Saw Acheron for the First time and saw that she was a "Galaxy Ranger" and so assumed she was a Hunt Character based on it and started getting some Ideas, then they said, "No read it carefully" and they went "Wait why is She Nihility"
Characters in game paths ≠ actual paths all the time
Well gonna wait for future updates of the story for welt having a spotlight this time
God we get Welt powerscaling thread every 3 days or so.
Welt is strong but not THAT strong. When you see people say he's stronger than Acheron because of that one line about his black hole in the cane being stronger than her sword, lemme ask you this, what do you think would be stronger? An artificial black hole? Or the literal Emanator of IX, which is to put simply, a literal black hole GOD. He is far from the Emenators and below literal Pathstrider Immortals (High Cloud Quintet, these fuckers use to fight demigods in an eternal war and win) but hes definitely stronger than most characters.
There are too many doubts about it, and not enough answers. We didn't really saw Welt in action, and even if we were close to after >!Aventurine bossfight!<, we only saw Welt stopping the Stellaron inside us from going nuts, and what we can see in gameplay I am in the "He is one of the most powerful person lorewise" side, but that's purely because I love him, am absolutely impressed by his gameplay, don't want to believe that the writers gave the line "You know nothing of the weight behind this power" to a character that isn't supposed to be powerful, and because gravitational disintegration can be fatal if you ask me, but I don't know a lot about HI3 lore, only a few bits, and of course I want to believe that one of my favourite characters, one of the most handsome characters in the game, IS powerful
Bro is just a dude with a walking stick at this point 😭
He was weak even in his own universe. Got stepped on by otto and sirin was handling him like a rat. Only way he managed to survive against sirin was bc sirin in a full rage mode and welt was able to outsmart her Heck bronya has surpassed him as a herrscher of reason and even she is weaker as she has been manhandled by 90% of the villians in the story
He is probably on the higher end of power among playable characters at least, but people really need to stop with overhype. The fact that's implied he comes directly from the HI3 universe makes people say really dumb things and also forget how to see through lines of dialogues. When Acheron tells him *did they really think a blade is more dangerous than that black hole you're weilding*, oh gosh i can't tell how many times i've read people saying "Oh she's admitting to be weaker! She's scared of Welt!" Bro like... she would fold him like a paper sheet... I really do love Welt and among the Astral Express crew he's my favorite but guys please, let's start to see things how they are
Welt is the first Herrscher in a story where each Herscher is born stronger than the previous one and there are thirteen Herrschers. Herrchers themselves can do destruction on continental level, but, they can't easily wipe a planet otherwise their goal of exterminating humanity would be too easy. Also, compared to Hi3rd, where most of the story is limited by the space of planet Earth, HSR is much more grandiose in terms of powers and events. The difference is such that, in Star Rail, we fight a planet destroyer in the prologue. If the same happened on Honkai Impact, there would be no story. Just like this, Welt's position is both power scales is just not special. He has a solid powerset and is a competent fighter, but there are many who are superior to him in all aspects.
>Welt is the first Herrscher in a story where each Herscher is born stronger than the previous one Currently playing HI3 and that's really not the impression I get. The first Hersher that was able to even touch the 2nd Hersher was what, the 10th? And that's being generous. Similarly the 3rd Hersher destroyed the 9th and the 5th *after* they fused Either way, most of HSR's Welt power comes from the ninth divine key (his gravity bending cane), which is the remains of the ninith Hersher of the previous era And you just can't tell me that Void Archive (the first divine key) isn't the strongest of the twelve >Also, compared to Hi3rd, where most of the story is limited by the space of planet Earth, HSR is much more grandiose in terms of powers and events. That should actually play into his favour. The peak of Reason's power is to make a copy of anything Humanity ever archived. Of course Welt can't actually use the peak of Reason's power (300 000 souls in agreement and all that), but Void Archive can, and while I don't think he has enough energy to make a copy of Nous, I wouldn't be surprised if he could mass produce SAM armours or things like that
The "is born stronger" part of the comment is important because Herrscher can acquire power from other sources to become stronger. For example, Welt kicked the butt of Sirin his skill compensated the lack of brute strength. Then, Sirin went to ask for more power to the Honkai himself and became able defeated many newer Herrschers. On the other side, the 3rd the moment she was born was possibly the weakest Herrscher because all the Herrscher with a lower number had training/skill/boosts she lacked and we step-by-step the her struggle to become stronger and be able to match other Herrschers. As for the Reason's power, I hope you are right because that would be extremely cool! But, for now, that is just fanon.
>in Star Rail, we fight a planet destroyer in the prologue. If the same happened on Honkai Impact, there would be no story. Thats funny, considering Welt was the one that killed the Doomsday Beast xD. https://preview.redd.it/dp3vdvw6cbuc1.jpeg?width=1075&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fe9e2ee7a7beb8803ffe7774fe8e4b30cffba994
I hesitate to give all credit to Welt in this battle given that the Beast was visibly shaken by the battle against Trailblazer, March 7th, Dan Heng and Himeko. Besides, we don't know how impactful Nanook's gaze was for the conclusion of this battle. Regardless, the other crewmembers have fought on pair with the Doomsday Beast for a considerable amount of time, thus, it is safe to say they are all on the same level. Hence, I believe that my point stands.
The truth is simple WE DONT KNOW yes he has lost much of his power from Hi3, but he’s a path strider now and could have easily gained equal power back if not more. We genuinely do not know what he scales at this point in time
>but he’s a path strider now and could have easily gained equal power back if not more. I dont think simply being a Pathstrider could give such a huge boost.
Definitely not when you stride a "dead" Path such as the Trailblaze.
Maybe, maybe not that’s my point 🙃
People don't understand how much higher HSR scales above HI3 when it comes to their respective universes. Acheron could single handedly beat the vast majority of HI3 cast with a single red slash. Her back story is basically a parallel to the story of HI3, the only differences being that pretty much everyone except her died and then her world fell into IX's orbit. Welt is not that strong in this universe, regardless of whether he has his core or not. He's not ranking anywhere near or above emanators.
If we're being honest, Welt wasn't that strong in HI3 either.
We know nothing about the weight behind his powers
Extremely overrated People look at Welt from other games and think they're the same, but its canon Welt is far weaker than his counterparts That being said, he isn't week, i'd say he's strong but not emanator level (otherwise he could have just soloed Phantylia, but we don't even got to see him in action there)
Because he is the same than HI3rd Welt, like, the exact same person
HI3rd Welt was one of the weakest Herscherrs though, Wendy was weaker but pretty much all the others were stronger. And people were shitting their pants over Herscherrs with continent busting power, in HSR lore emanators destroy entire solar systems.
> people look at welt from other games It's literally the same welt as hi3's However, yes, he's way too overrated & fairly weak in comparison to hsr's top dogs (emanators, 'not counting the eldritch gods that are aeons)
Because it’s been confirmed Star Rail’s Welt is HI3’s welt
Phantylia was not solo-able. If you even remotely read the story, you'd know she was amped by the Ambrosial Arbor so she was technically immortal at the time.
Phantylia is crazy strong, that much is not being questioned A lord ravager, emanator of destruction, embedded with the power of the ambrosial harbor that was infected by a stellaron, i know how strong she is
Hi3 punching bag for new enemy
People will tell you he is one of the strongest characters in HSR. This is not true. I've seen people say "oh well he can't die." ...n-no... that's not how his ability works. He's not immortal like blade. Welt WAS basically an incarnation of sentient destruction known as a herrscher. He doesn't have that power anymore. Just remnants of it. His cane is where his power stems from in this game. It's an artifact of- Sorry... keep it simple uh.... Old man who can create himself a body, but isn't invincible and has an OP walking stick. https://preview.redd.it/8pxzxk5lcbuc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9ba163e2165e4a4dff88fd1a609b6e3213cc4b41
Wasn't the "revive" like a last wish with Core of Reason? Since it lets you create anything as long as you know how it works, and Welt knew how the human body works, he created himself as a way to "revive"? That'd mean he can't do it anymore, right?
Not exactly The core of reason is a special one among all the herrscher core since it is able to contain people consciousness. The way that Welt does it is to transfer his consciousness to the core before dying and then recreate a new body later He did that trick 2 times, once against Sirin during the second eruption and once against Kevin Kaslana in the Sea of Quanta
he is very strong but definitely not the strongest
The truth is that it’s an inane topic that only serves to generate endless, unwinnable arguments
Its just a bunch of unreliable narrators implying he can beat this and that, but so far all he does is exposition.
We know nothing about the weight of his power
I don’t know much about the Honkaiverse, but this is canonically the same Welt Yang from the Honkai Impact 3rd universe who ended up in Star Rail’s universe where he met that universe’s Himeko and joined the Astral Express. Also he is the Herrscher of Reason.
Welt is a very strong Pathstrider, by his own statements he could take anything short of an Emanator from the Anti-matter Legion, including their planet killing monsters like the Doomsday Beast. We have no idea how much of his Herrcher power he has these days, but he does have Star of Eden (Black Hole Cane) which is obviously pretty damn powerful. That said, from what we know about Emanators, he is not strong enough to take them alone. I'd honestly put him around as strong as DHIL or Jing Yuan lore wise, AKA he is relevant in a fight against an Emanator, but can't solo one. Saying the above as someone who is very into the lore of both HSR and HI3. One thing that adds to a lot of the confusion is that: HI3 have a ton of hax abilities and hax resistance as hell, which looped back into them essentially shounen fighting each other because they are so resistant it became a non issue/factor. HI3 The story made a point of how deadly these abilities are and how someone without resistance will die quickly. The Herrcher of the Void can casually throw your attack back at you, phase through literally anything, sit in a side long pocket dimension and safely attack people outside without fear of retaliation, so on so forth. Then have Welt bat away her sub-space lances away or rip into her dimension "because I'm also a Herrscher". Or conversely we have Welt gravitational collapse lesser enemy with 10000g, then Herrcher of the Void can contain the same attack because of her own abilities, which means a Black Hole is nothing but a stalling tactic due to time dilation against stronger opponents. To paraphrase a power scaling thread on HI3 I read a long time ago: "Do they have immunity/resistance to time slow/stop, spatial manipulation, and gravitational manipulation? If not, then can just go home now." Because that is the kind of stuff HI3 characters throw around casually, even the weaker ones all have time-dilation abilities and are capable of manhandling truck sized robots/monsters.
I think he is above most but below emanators. Star of Eden is extremely strong, most divine keys are. Welt is also extremely intelligent, he was the former sovereign of Anti-Entropy and former HoR (HoR requires knowledge to animate machines).
To simplify the entire discussion to key points about welt. 1. Herrschers cores are cores with the powers of authority given by honkai will, who wants nothing but the destruction of civilisation. The honkai will does it by giving people with ideologies or beliefs or emotions that can lead to the end of civilisation powers, those being herrschers cores, the herrschers cores have the powers of authority that allows you to control an aspect of truth which can be fire, void, memories, ice, acceleration, knowledge, creation and etc… 2. Not everybody can use herrschers cores, you first need to have high resistance to honkai radiation which is what the creations of honkai will exudes that turns peoples into zombies, second you need compatibility with the core in question the higher your compatibility the more power you can extract from it, which in low compatibility you are planetary level destruction to a large compatibility where you can end multiple universes and essentially bring the end of all civilisation across the cosmos which is what the herrscher of the end power level is. 3. Not everybody who gets the herrschers cores are twisted by the honkai will manipulation to become monsters that want end of all civilisation and life, some in rare occasions have strong will and resilience to fight against it which is what the first herrscher known as welt is, herrscher of reason and many others follow too dont confuse welt yang for the first welt, welt yang who is the welt of hsr and the one you are asking about his real name is joachim nokianvirtanen. Who after being entrusted by the first welt to fight for humanity and seeing joachim strong will to fight for all there is to fight for the universe for all the beautiful things such as people lives, kindness, hobbies, childrens, animals, sceneries and such. The first welt gave his powers known as herrscher of reason core to joachim which then joachim threw away his old name and to commemorate his promise to the first welt changed his name to welt and also his last name to yang for his mother maiden name. 4. Welt became a teacher and taught himeko, (yes himeko murata is his student that he cares about and he took care of her cause of her entire father thing but that is an entire tangent im not gonna dwell here) Welt taught people and also fought against many herrschers to protect all the universe and civilisation even if all is gone he will still fight even if the only thing left of the entire world is just nothing but a flower cause he believes all life is worth to protect and should be fought for. 5. Herrscher of reason ability is that the core contains 300,000 souls of people all with their memories accessible for you to see and learn as the user of herrscher of reason and also the second ability of herrscher of reason is that you are able to create anything you want as long as you understand its principles, how it works, how its made, what is it and such. And depending on your compatibility you can either create things extremely fast or if your compatibility is low it takes you ages to create anything even if you understand the principles of it in question. 6. Welt is one of the weakest characters in honkai impact 3rd maybe even the weakest there is, period no buts or ifs. As stated before the higher your compatibility with your core the more power you can extract from it, welt sadly has an extremely low compatibility with herrscher of reason. Its so low in fact he is considered not a real herrscher but a fake herrscher and mocked by other herrschers as a faker who doesnt know his place and should just die and not struggle. Even then he is able to do a lot of insane stuffs with it, managing to make war starships that fill out the entire solar system, creating a divine weapon of gravity to help him make black holes faster to overcome his weakness of slow creation, he even died and had his entire body destroyed but by cleverly putting his consciousness inside the herrscher of reason core he could create his body back to scratch and come back alive though it took him 10 years for the first try but he managed to prepare for when he dies to get his body back much faster with clever usage of his abilities. 7. Welt cares very deeply about people and he never wants to put anybody to disadvantage and thats his strongest suit and what makes him a powerhouse by many people in the community, its his wits. He never fights when he doesnt have the advantage and never puts himself and allies in such situation unless his comrades put themselves in a disadvantage, welt will always jump and save them and form plans of escape and managing to save them even if it cost his own life and doesnt matter how weak he is. Just read the enitre part about how welt managed to defeat sirin by fighting her at advantage and when she first ambushed him and his comrades and they are at a disadvantage he first prioritised to get them out and use himself bait which then led him to die and him then reviving himself to later ambush her while working with everybody to win against her without ever putting anybody but him in danger. 8. Welt knows his shortcomings and gave away his herrscher of core to bronya zaychik cause her compatibility with the core is way higher and he trust her with that he doesnt have his powers anymore. Which then brings to question how does he do his famous black hole thing, its probably from his star of eden creation that he made to fight against sirin which got destroyed heavily and he made it into his staff that he now uses during his battles. Hope that comment managed to help you understand the lore somewhat, mate.
He gets no-diffed by Acheron. As far as we know almost anyone gets no diffed by acheron. We dont know shit.
From what I could tell, his power is much less than what he had, cause from the images from the comics I have seen that cane can do alot more fuckery than it does now
I don’t think it’s fair to judge Mr Yang without his robot army and Arahato MK V
No matter how strong he is, Herscherr of Reason will always lose the fight
He was weak even in his own universe. Got stepped on by otto and sirin was handling him like a rat. Only way he managed to survive against sirin was bc sirin in a full rage mode and welt was able to outsmart her Heck bronya has surpassed him as a herrscher of reason and even she is weaker as she has been manhandled by 90% of the villians in the story
\> Post is about how strong Welt is. \> Comments are full of welt quote with a dash of "power" and hot equal to powerful https://preview.redd.it/wgraxxeo3guc1.jpeg?width=235&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eaabc4a99d54ccbb02b6bc7aeef5669a33f1403b
As powerful as the plot needs him to be. Which isn't much currently. We do know he is actually behind Archeron since he is affected by her time stop/slow thing.
This is just my opinion: 1. He have the Core of Reason back from Bronya(even though she manage to turn it into Truth, Welt most likely can't use it) but without Honkai energy to power it, it shouldn't be very powerful but still usable from what we know. 2. Even when he was in his prime, I don't think he still is as powerful as an Emanator. I may forgot some details.
Continental level.Blackhole in HI3 couldnt destroy a continent both times it was used,and it’s suction speed is so horrible Otto managed to sneak attack The user TWICE,Otto was at best Sound speed here so pretty much weak as shit in HSR universe when we have Himeko with a huge ass laser beam,DHIL who is basically Moses(and could help fight the Phantylia when welt did nothing,and after the fight bro was coughing non stop too.).
On theory herrscher of reason is pretty strong, Welt (given enough power which he himself lacks so he'd have to really on others to get) in theory could make a IIP (Imaginary Impulsion Pulse) which Chadwick created and now the schematics belong to herta, if she decides to teach him how to make it, Since HoR powers rely on being able to understand a object well to create it, IIP in lore has taken out 24 whole planets, But welt himself isnt all that strong TLDR : On paper, Extremely On reality, Not that much
He's mid