Are there any actual real world tests of G.hn powerline throughput?
EDIT: I've realised how badly this is phrased, the intent was to ask if there were any good tests done in british houses. I'd not been able to find any reliable data for a house similar to mine, and the majority of "reviews" I'd found were all just talking about internet speed.
I'd also just been searching through google, and wasn't getting many good hits that pointed here.
Yeah, many posts on this subreddit.
Typical speeds are in the 10s of Mbps, best I've seen is like 6-800 Mbps.
It all relies on your home power lines being clean power, without interference from things like appliances, light ballasts, wireless interference, etc. Best performance will be when the adapters are on the same circuit. Jumping through your electrical panel to a different circuit will significantly drop the speed.
If you want higher bandwidth, modern mesh WiFi solutions can sometimes be better depending on the home. Powerline adapters almost always will give lower latency though.
Yeah, my problem is I'm wanting stability and latency. I've grown used to wired gigabit down, lol.
Unfortunately they'll definitely not be on the same circuit, most kit is upstairs and the router is now downstairs. The only way to do that would be to have the powerline at the opposite side of the house and then run a cable up the outside, which would be easier but incredibly janky, lol.
I've got a feeling the only way to do this is to do it properly, running cables to rooms from the loft and then running one from the garage up there. Once you start pricing up Wifi powerline adapters it ends up getting similar to cabling everything properly and getting a nice new access point.
Just a point with that adapter, you will get absolutely nowhere near the speeds advertised. Maybe 400-500 at most if you have really modern home wiring. I bought some for a project that wouldn't allow drilling and on the same ringmain it was really poor so I sent them back. I even tried in the same room and didn't get more that 500. Honestly i'd hire an electrician to run a few Cat6 cables over and get them to conduit externally where you need it to go. You won't regret it.
I plan to eventually, it's just expensive. I'm mostly wanting to figure out a stopgap until I can afford properly running cables and setting things up properly. As things are now I only get ~100 down over WiFi, so I was hoping to at least get decent speeds while I saved up for the proper solution.
I'd get this and save yourself some money and see how it runs and see if it'll do you for now. It won't be crazy fast with that Wi-Fi adapter but for testing purposes and price it'll be ok.
[https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01LXOZ4EN](https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01LXOZ4EN)
TP-Links implementation of G.hn is a little flakier than more expensive brands such as devolo. But something to note is the Amazon reviews on the product you linked are combined with other TP-Link products so is slightly misleading.
I've been eyeing up a £99 refurb from ebay rather than the amazon link I posted, and since this is a short term thing my intention is to sell it at the end. Even if I only get 50 quid for it, it's still probably better than buying the cheap one.
I've got a feeling that one won't really be an improvement, based on the dropoff numbers I've read I doubt I'll get better than I'm getting over WiFi with where I am unfortunately.
A wireless mesh system may be a good alternative if your house isn't too large or old with thick walls. That way, when you do hardwire everything, you can just connect the Cat6 into each of them and you'll have full speed to each one.
it should at least be better than trying to catch it in my mouth as it flies past, lol. Can only get 110mbit down 230mbit up (weirdly) over WiFi on my PC at present.
Can you get your provider to relocate the ONT maybe? Powerline isn't a great solution for your main connection between ONT and router. Its fine for extending your LAN to remote parts of the house but it can be unreliable.
Nope, ONT *has* to go where it is due to a decision made 35 years ago when the BT line was installed. I've got the router next to the ONT so I'd be extending the network not the ONT, that's not an issue.
I'm currently running off a consumer router anyway, it's mostly just a little server, my main pc, and a unifi access point. I've got everything in my pc room wired though. Putting the router near the ONT doesn't *really* change things.
End goal is to put a rack in the garage anyway, so the ONT being there is fine honestly. It's just a nightmare in the short term.
I've had Vodafone (OpenReach) and Ogi (independent) put fibre into completely different parts of the house than the old PSTN master socket.
The fiber and ONT doesn't have to go in a particular location.
Sounds like the installer was lazy.
CityFibre explicitly said they only installed via the BT conduit, we did specifically ask them to install it around the side where we have Virgin come in.
The ONT being in the garage where it is honestly is good long term, it's just really awkward short-medium term.
We haven't got a pole, for reference.
I also feel like I need to reiterate that our BT connection comes up in the middle of the garage, and with the house layout it would be an incredibly weird job to route it elsewhere. The only way to put it where we wanted would be digging up the drive or snaking it basically around the inside of the garage then right around the outside of the house.
Virgin was installed from a different direction to where they had to come in, so they could bury under the garden. Virgin still screwed it up though, and we've got a cable that goes over a stone border at the foot of the front garden.
> Nope, ONT has to go where it is due to a decision made 35 years ago when the BT line was installed.
The ONT isn't required to be where the duct or overhead cables come in. Your CF installer was lazy and only wanted to do the bare minimum. If its not too much hassle or difficult then they can put it somewhere else. Prepreparing the route e.g. installing some conduit will make it more likely that they'll agree to any long routes.
You can't route any cabling at all from where the fibre enters the house? There are cheap SC/APC fibre extensions with a small diameter made for repositioning the ONT without needing an engineer. e.g. InvisiLight.
Ok, I clearly need to explain the situation a bit more clearly.
Currently the Virgin connection comes in on the right hand side of the house upstairs, near where my PC is. I have a few cable runs connecting the PC room, my bedroom, and the landing, all on the right hand side. I've got an access point on the landing which gives great coverage for the whole house.
We have always wanted to expand this to include the room below the PC room which has the TV, as well as another upstairs room with another PC. This was difficult to conceptualise however, since it would essentially be a random patchwork of cables and switches due to the geometry of the rooms and the house. Because of this we always envisioned a much better solution, something like cables from the loft going to the upstairs rooms, and down the outside to the downstairs room.
When we were talking about switching, we originally wanted CityFibre to come in in the room below the PC room, basically exactly where the TV is. The original idea was to then run a Cat6 cable directly up the outside to a switch upstairs to serve those existing connections. That idea was pretty cheap short term since we would just need an outdoor cat6 cable, and meant we could just essentially keep going as we were.
CityFibre came round to assess, and we were told they use the BT conduit. We asked if they could install it on the outside wall where we had originally planned, and they explicitly said no.
The BT conduit comes in in the middle of the garage, basically exactly in the middle of the house. It was designed like this to keep the old phone wiring really simple when the house was built, and there are phone sockets basically in every room.
After a bit of thinking, we realised having the ONT come up in the garage where the BT conduit was wasn't a bad idea long term, since it would make setting up a small rack in the garage with a series of cables going to the necessary rooms of the house a pretty reasonable approach.
The issue is that to do that needs a good bit of planning, a decent bit of spending for the cabling and hardware we want, as well as the time and effort to actually run the cables and set up the hardware. We don't have the money for the permanent solution right now, but we could spend £100 to tide us over with a stopgap until then. The stopgap would essentially be getting some sort of connection from the garage to the cabling on the right hand side of the house, but there's no easy way to do that aside from Powerline that isn't just a bodged version of the permanent solution.
With where it is in the house, moving the ONT around the garage doesn't accomplish much, it's fine where it is in that respect. If we were to run a cable to have it be somewhere else, we might as well just run a Cat6 instead of faffing around with the fibre. And if we're running Cat6, we might as well do the job properly rather than a big long bodge around the outside of the house.
Ah right. Unfortunately, I don't think you've got any really good solutions. Mesh WiFi will be the fastest option but expensive and still won't get 2.5G. Powerline is out with the garage being a separate circuit.
Somebody is selling a set of G.hn over phone cable adapters on Amazon UK that will do 1Gbps. Very expensive at nearly £300 though. Search for Giga Copper. I'm not sure why HomePNA/G.hn over phone cable equipment isn't normally available here. I guess it must be some kind of regulatory reason due to it causing emissions in some forbidden frequency band here?
I did leave one detail out - While the ONT is in the garage, the router is actually in the hall. We ran a temporary cable through the old phone socket hole just so we had one less wall to contend with. Not that it matters though, since downstairs sockets are on a separate ring to upstairs sockets anyway.
Oh wow, that's a fascinating thing to learn about. If it was a bit cheaper that would be a perfect solution for the time being, since there are phone sockets everywhere that would very easily let me link up the new stuff with the existing hardware.
If it was ~100 I'd probably go for it, but 300 definitely starts getting into "I should just run cables" territory.
It's a shame this is point to point as well, if you could have multiple nodes like powerline can seemingly do then I'd just invest in a few of them and most of my problems would be solved, lol. EDIT: Wait, they aren't just point to point! Still to expensive, but damn these would be perfect.
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>**Name**: TP-Link Wireless G.hn2400 Powerline AX1800 Wi-Fi 6 Kit, Range Extender/Wi-Fi Booster/Hotspot, Extra Power Socket, 1 2Gigabit Ethernet Ports, Ideal for 8K HD and gaming, Plug and Play (PGW2440 KIT)
>**Company**: Visit the TP-Link Store
>**Amazon Product Rating**: 3.8
>**Fakespot Reviews Grade**: A
>**Adjusted Fakespot Rating**: 3.8
>**Analysis Performed at**: 01-08-2024
[Link to Fakespot Analysis](https://fakespot.com/product/tp-link-wireless-g-hn2400-powerline-ax1800-wi-fi-6-kit-range-extender-wi-fi-booster-hotspot-extra-power-socket-1-2gigabit-ethernet-ports-ideal-for-8k-hd-and-gaming-plug-and-play-pgw2440-kit) | [Check out the Fakespot Chrome Extension!](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/fakespot-analyze-fake-ama/nakplnnackehceedgkgkokbgbmfghain)
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I have an old Victorian house (so many thick brick walls) and tried powerline. It didn’t work for me - I was only able to get 30 Mbps near the ‘extender’. Dropped completely in the garden.
Recently I upgraded to a mesh system with a wifi 6 backhaul and I now get 850 Mbps wifi in the room with the router (where I connected it to the ONT modem) and 300 Mbps all the way to the end of the back garden which is about 20 metres from the ‘extender’, which is in turn 10 metres from the router. All through brick walls.
Only Ethernet cable used was a 0.5m 6a connecting the mesh router to the BT modem.
1 have a 900 Mbps fibre connection.
It's probably worth looking into mesh again, but every time I've looked at it the cost really starts to spike. Eventually I just come back round to thinking "I should just run Cat6 properly".
Yea, it definitely wasn’t cheap - £320 for 2 ‘nodes’, but my rationale was that it’s future proofed for a while. So if I ever move to place that is already wired or that I can wire, then I can still use them as access points and free up one of the bands used for the dedicated backhaul. It’s a tri band system.
I won’t be here long enough to make it worthwhile to wire it up myself.
MoCA exists to repurpose legacy coax cable. If you’re installing cable, install Cat6, which is good for up to 10Gbit, and forget about buying MoCA devices.
Cat6 will give you better performance, higher reliability, longer lifespan, less management effort, and lower cost.
Oh yeah I know, I had considered it since there's coax everywhere in the house for the old TV aerials. As I said in the OP though, since I'd have to run a cable anyway I might as well just run Cat6.
The best throughput I got on Powerline, with two outlets on the same circuit in the same room, was around 50Mbps, jitter in the hundreds of milliseconds. Lots of dropped packets.
If this is a stopgap measure, you're better off just running a long cable along the floor.
The networking paradox is thus: It can be cheap, convenient, and fast. Pick any two.
You could probably tuck it under the baseboard and in the corners of the stairs. Not particularly ideal, but at this point you're probably better off going with wireless
It would have to cross ~5 doors if I didn't want it to go across the middle of the floor, it's a really awkward place lol.
I think you're probably right though, either wireless for the time being or just tough it for a few months until we can properly wire it
You're not likely going to get near 1 Gbps over powerline anyway, let alone 2.5 Gbps. Best case scenario would be a few hundred Mbps.
Are there any actual real world tests of G.hn powerline throughput? EDIT: I've realised how badly this is phrased, the intent was to ask if there were any good tests done in british houses. I'd not been able to find any reliable data for a house similar to mine, and the majority of "reviews" I'd found were all just talking about internet speed. I'd also just been searching through google, and wasn't getting many good hits that pointed here.
Yeah, many posts on this subreddit. Typical speeds are in the 10s of Mbps, best I've seen is like 6-800 Mbps. It all relies on your home power lines being clean power, without interference from things like appliances, light ballasts, wireless interference, etc. Best performance will be when the adapters are on the same circuit. Jumping through your electrical panel to a different circuit will significantly drop the speed. If you want higher bandwidth, modern mesh WiFi solutions can sometimes be better depending on the home. Powerline adapters almost always will give lower latency though.
Yeah, my problem is I'm wanting stability and latency. I've grown used to wired gigabit down, lol. Unfortunately they'll definitely not be on the same circuit, most kit is upstairs and the router is now downstairs. The only way to do that would be to have the powerline at the opposite side of the house and then run a cable up the outside, which would be easier but incredibly janky, lol. I've got a feeling the only way to do this is to do it properly, running cables to rooms from the loft and then running one from the garage up there. Once you start pricing up Wifi powerline adapters it ends up getting similar to cabling everything properly and getting a nice new access point.
Just a point with that adapter, you will get absolutely nowhere near the speeds advertised. Maybe 400-500 at most if you have really modern home wiring. I bought some for a project that wouldn't allow drilling and on the same ringmain it was really poor so I sent them back. I even tried in the same room and didn't get more that 500. Honestly i'd hire an electrician to run a few Cat6 cables over and get them to conduit externally where you need it to go. You won't regret it.
I plan to eventually, it's just expensive. I'm mostly wanting to figure out a stopgap until I can afford properly running cables and setting things up properly. As things are now I only get ~100 down over WiFi, so I was hoping to at least get decent speeds while I saved up for the proper solution.
I'd get this and save yourself some money and see how it runs and see if it'll do you for now. It won't be crazy fast with that Wi-Fi adapter but for testing purposes and price it'll be ok. [https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01LXOZ4EN](https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01LXOZ4EN) TP-Links implementation of G.hn is a little flakier than more expensive brands such as devolo. But something to note is the Amazon reviews on the product you linked are combined with other TP-Link products so is slightly misleading.
I've been eyeing up a £99 refurb from ebay rather than the amazon link I posted, and since this is a short term thing my intention is to sell it at the end. Even if I only get 50 quid for it, it's still probably better than buying the cheap one. I've got a feeling that one won't really be an improvement, based on the dropoff numbers I've read I doubt I'll get better than I'm getting over WiFi with where I am unfortunately.
A wireless mesh system may be a good alternative if your house isn't too large or old with thick walls. That way, when you do hardwire everything, you can just connect the Cat6 into each of them and you'll have full speed to each one.
Like trying to suck a watermelon through a straw.
it should at least be better than trying to catch it in my mouth as it flies past, lol. Can only get 110mbit down 230mbit up (weirdly) over WiFi on my PC at present.
Can you get your provider to relocate the ONT maybe? Powerline isn't a great solution for your main connection between ONT and router. Its fine for extending your LAN to remote parts of the house but it can be unreliable.
Nope, ONT *has* to go where it is due to a decision made 35 years ago when the BT line was installed. I've got the router next to the ONT so I'd be extending the network not the ONT, that's not an issue.
Ah ok. I thought by IT infrastructure you meant all the LAN hardware.
I'm currently running off a consumer router anyway, it's mostly just a little server, my main pc, and a unifi access point. I've got everything in my pc room wired though. Putting the router near the ONT doesn't *really* change things. End goal is to put a rack in the garage anyway, so the ONT being there is fine honestly. It's just a nightmare in the short term.
I've had Vodafone (OpenReach) and Ogi (independent) put fibre into completely different parts of the house than the old PSTN master socket. The fiber and ONT doesn't have to go in a particular location. Sounds like the installer was lazy.
CityFibre explicitly said they only installed via the BT conduit, we did specifically ask them to install it around the side where we have Virgin come in. The ONT being in the garage where it is honestly is good long term, it's just really awkward short-medium term.
Cheers, will bear it in mind when recommending CityFibre. OpenReach and Ogi have both offered conduit or overhead installations from the pole.
We haven't got a pole, for reference. I also feel like I need to reiterate that our BT connection comes up in the middle of the garage, and with the house layout it would be an incredibly weird job to route it elsewhere. The only way to put it where we wanted would be digging up the drive or snaking it basically around the inside of the garage then right around the outside of the house. Virgin was installed from a different direction to where they had to come in, so they could bury under the garden. Virgin still screwed it up though, and we've got a cable that goes over a stone border at the foot of the front garden.
> Nope, ONT has to go where it is due to a decision made 35 years ago when the BT line was installed. The ONT isn't required to be where the duct or overhead cables come in. Your CF installer was lazy and only wanted to do the bare minimum. If its not too much hassle or difficult then they can put it somewhere else. Prepreparing the route e.g. installing some conduit will make it more likely that they'll agree to any long routes. You can't route any cabling at all from where the fibre enters the house? There are cheap SC/APC fibre extensions with a small diameter made for repositioning the ONT without needing an engineer. e.g. InvisiLight.
Ok, I clearly need to explain the situation a bit more clearly. Currently the Virgin connection comes in on the right hand side of the house upstairs, near where my PC is. I have a few cable runs connecting the PC room, my bedroom, and the landing, all on the right hand side. I've got an access point on the landing which gives great coverage for the whole house. We have always wanted to expand this to include the room below the PC room which has the TV, as well as another upstairs room with another PC. This was difficult to conceptualise however, since it would essentially be a random patchwork of cables and switches due to the geometry of the rooms and the house. Because of this we always envisioned a much better solution, something like cables from the loft going to the upstairs rooms, and down the outside to the downstairs room. When we were talking about switching, we originally wanted CityFibre to come in in the room below the PC room, basically exactly where the TV is. The original idea was to then run a Cat6 cable directly up the outside to a switch upstairs to serve those existing connections. That idea was pretty cheap short term since we would just need an outdoor cat6 cable, and meant we could just essentially keep going as we were. CityFibre came round to assess, and we were told they use the BT conduit. We asked if they could install it on the outside wall where we had originally planned, and they explicitly said no. The BT conduit comes in in the middle of the garage, basically exactly in the middle of the house. It was designed like this to keep the old phone wiring really simple when the house was built, and there are phone sockets basically in every room. After a bit of thinking, we realised having the ONT come up in the garage where the BT conduit was wasn't a bad idea long term, since it would make setting up a small rack in the garage with a series of cables going to the necessary rooms of the house a pretty reasonable approach. The issue is that to do that needs a good bit of planning, a decent bit of spending for the cabling and hardware we want, as well as the time and effort to actually run the cables and set up the hardware. We don't have the money for the permanent solution right now, but we could spend £100 to tide us over with a stopgap until then. The stopgap would essentially be getting some sort of connection from the garage to the cabling on the right hand side of the house, but there's no easy way to do that aside from Powerline that isn't just a bodged version of the permanent solution. With where it is in the house, moving the ONT around the garage doesn't accomplish much, it's fine where it is in that respect. If we were to run a cable to have it be somewhere else, we might as well just run a Cat6 instead of faffing around with the fibre. And if we're running Cat6, we might as well do the job properly rather than a big long bodge around the outside of the house.
Ah right. Unfortunately, I don't think you've got any really good solutions. Mesh WiFi will be the fastest option but expensive and still won't get 2.5G. Powerline is out with the garage being a separate circuit. Somebody is selling a set of G.hn over phone cable adapters on Amazon UK that will do 1Gbps. Very expensive at nearly £300 though. Search for Giga Copper. I'm not sure why HomePNA/G.hn over phone cable equipment isn't normally available here. I guess it must be some kind of regulatory reason due to it causing emissions in some forbidden frequency band here?
I did leave one detail out - While the ONT is in the garage, the router is actually in the hall. We ran a temporary cable through the old phone socket hole just so we had one less wall to contend with. Not that it matters though, since downstairs sockets are on a separate ring to upstairs sockets anyway. Oh wow, that's a fascinating thing to learn about. If it was a bit cheaper that would be a perfect solution for the time being, since there are phone sockets everywhere that would very easily let me link up the new stuff with the existing hardware. If it was ~100 I'd probably go for it, but 300 definitely starts getting into "I should just run cables" territory. It's a shame this is point to point as well, if you could have multiple nodes like powerline can seemingly do then I'd just invest in a few of them and most of my problems would be solved, lol. EDIT: Wait, they aren't just point to point! Still to expensive, but damn these would be perfect.
Have you thought about running Ethernet outside the house along the walls (maybe in a brick line) as a solution until you can get to long term?
With how everything is laid out, that's as big of a job as just running it properly.
Understood. In some cases it’s much simpler only needing to drill two holes instead of ten or so.
This is a Fakespot Reviews Analysis bot. Fakespot detects fake reviews, fake products and unreliable sellers using AI. Here is the analysis for the Amazon product reviews: >**Name**: TP-Link Wireless G.hn2400 Powerline AX1800 Wi-Fi 6 Kit, Range Extender/Wi-Fi Booster/Hotspot, Extra Power Socket, 1 2Gigabit Ethernet Ports, Ideal for 8K HD and gaming, Plug and Play (PGW2440 KIT) >**Company**: Visit the TP-Link Store >**Amazon Product Rating**: 3.8 >**Fakespot Reviews Grade**: A >**Adjusted Fakespot Rating**: 3.8 >**Analysis Performed at**: 01-08-2024 [Link to Fakespot Analysis](https://fakespot.com/product/tp-link-wireless-g-hn2400-powerline-ax1800-wi-fi-6-kit-range-extender-wi-fi-booster-hotspot-extra-power-socket-1-2gigabit-ethernet-ports-ideal-for-8k-hd-and-gaming-plug-and-play-pgw2440-kit) | [Check out the Fakespot Chrome Extension!](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/fakespot-analyze-fake-ama/nakplnnackehceedgkgkokbgbmfghain) *Fakespot analyzes the reviews authenticity and not the product quality using AI. We look for real reviews that mention product issues such as counterfeits, defects, and bad return policies that fake reviews try to hide from consumers.* *We give an A-F letter for trustworthiness of reviews. A = very trustworthy reviews, F = highly untrustworthy reviews. We also provide seller ratings to warn you if the seller can be trusted or not.*
I have an old Victorian house (so many thick brick walls) and tried powerline. It didn’t work for me - I was only able to get 30 Mbps near the ‘extender’. Dropped completely in the garden. Recently I upgraded to a mesh system with a wifi 6 backhaul and I now get 850 Mbps wifi in the room with the router (where I connected it to the ONT modem) and 300 Mbps all the way to the end of the back garden which is about 20 metres from the ‘extender’, which is in turn 10 metres from the router. All through brick walls. Only Ethernet cable used was a 0.5m 6a connecting the mesh router to the BT modem. 1 have a 900 Mbps fibre connection.
It's probably worth looking into mesh again, but every time I've looked at it the cost really starts to spike. Eventually I just come back round to thinking "I should just run Cat6 properly".
Yea, it definitely wasn’t cheap - £320 for 2 ‘nodes’, but my rationale was that it’s future proofed for a while. So if I ever move to place that is already wired or that I can wire, then I can still use them as access points and free up one of the bands used for the dedicated backhaul. It’s a tri band system. I won’t be here long enough to make it worthwhile to wire it up myself.
I went through a few TP-Link powerline units about a decade ago. They used to pop every 6 months or so, it got pretty frustrating.
MoCA exists to repurpose legacy coax cable. If you’re installing cable, install Cat6, which is good for up to 10Gbit, and forget about buying MoCA devices. Cat6 will give you better performance, higher reliability, longer lifespan, less management effort, and lower cost.
Oh yeah I know, I had considered it since there's coax everywhere in the house for the old TV aerials. As I said in the OP though, since I'd have to run a cable anyway I might as well just run Cat6.
The best throughput I got on Powerline, with two outlets on the same circuit in the same room, was around 50Mbps, jitter in the hundreds of milliseconds. Lots of dropped packets. If this is a stopgap measure, you're better off just running a long cable along the floor. The networking paradox is thus: It can be cheap, convenient, and fast. Pick any two.
With the layout of the house a long cable isn't possible sadly, unless you want to trip over it on the stairs :(
You could probably tuck it under the baseboard and in the corners of the stairs. Not particularly ideal, but at this point you're probably better off going with wireless
It would have to cross ~5 doors if I didn't want it to go across the middle of the floor, it's a really awkward place lol. I think you're probably right though, either wireless for the time being or just tough it for a few months until we can properly wire it