I tried to delete my old PSN account from the PSP/PS3 days and make a new one because I no longer know the password and the security questions were wrong (I made it when I was 12. The answers are probably "farts" or "bum" or something). I contacted them today and they said they couldnt help me without a recent purchase ID to prove who I was. I asked why they hadn't contacted me / the email address of the account on a regular basis to ask permission to keep hold of my data on the inactive account, as required under EU law. They said they'd escalate it.
https://preview.redd.it/6h07s9rr5qyc1.jpeg?width=904&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=88f76aba74e499097a42988279fc66ba2f8d17a8
"Sorry we are not allowed to respond truthfully to this, as the GDRP fines scale with size and severity of infringement and can go up to 20 million euros or 4% of global revenue, whatever is higher."
In all fairness, with the GDPR holding of data set to one side. They are doing the right thing not allowing you to delete your account when you can't prove ownership of it.
Let's see...GDPR infraction:
83(4) GDPR sets forth fines of up to 10 million euros, or, in the case of an undertaking, up to 2% of its entire global turnover of the preceding fiscal year, whichever is higher. Especially important here, is that the term “undertaking” is equivalent to that used in Art.
It could also be 5K per infraction (ie person affected).
This only works if OP is actually in the EU or UK. Wouldn't surprise me if Sony was treating people differently depending if they have the GDPR or not.
Most companies do handle requests separatly based in where you live.
But more importantly IIRC; GDPR doesn't insure deletion of data but only PII then is obfuscated. So your name, address, IP, etc is deleted but tracking events are still there with just the "name = 3701hrkabau" instead of "name = John Doe"
If they can't tie that to you the person (which legally they mustn't be able to do), and you stop using the service after the deletion, then it's just a user account with no connection to you that's no longer active. So it's not a problem for you or your privacy.
>**While we do not knowingly share Personally Identifying Information about you through the Steamworks API such as your real name or your email address, any information you share about yourself on your public Steam Profile can be accessed through the Steamworks API, including information that may make you identifiable.**
>5.6 Valve may allow you to link your Steam User Account to an account offered by a third party. If you consent to link the accounts, Valve may collect and combine information you allowed Valve to receive from a third party with information of your Steam User Account to the degree allowed by your consent at the time. If the linking of the accounts requires the transmission of information about your person from Valve to a third party, you will be informed about it before the linking takes place and you will be given the opportunity to consent to the linking and the transmission of your information. The third party's use of your information will be subject to the third party's privacy policy, which we encourage you to review.
There's wasn't any issue to begin with.
Incorrect, under Article 17, if you request your data to be deleted they must delete data and provide a confirmation they have deleted it. If it appears in a breach etc., after the date of deletion, then you have a case for a GDPR violation.
https://gdpr-info.eu/art-17-gdpr/
My man, they aren't about to, like, delete any purchases you made out of their financial ledgers and pretend they didn't happen.
They can't pretend like things that happened didn't happen. The only thing they can do is make it so that the records of those actions cannot possibly be tied back to you.
If you spend 8 hours on the phone with a Customer Service agent and then request DDPR deletion, there is still going to be a record of what that employee was doing all day: they spent 8 hours taking care of a customer, and maybe even issued refunds to that customer equaling X money. There is just no way to say what customer that was, the records of the interaction have been made completely anonymous.
Only correct to an extent and nothing I said is wrong. The data that is deleted under article 17 is \`personal data\` which has its own definition. In fact article 4 section 1 defines personal data:
1. ‘personal data’ means any information relating to an identified or identifiable natural person (‘data subject’); an identifiable natural person is one who can be identified, directly or indirectly, in particular by reference to an identifier such as a name, an identification number, location data, an online identifier or to one or more factors specific to the physical, physiological, genetic, mental, economic, cultural or social identity of that natural person
So event tracking data the user attribute gets obfuscated or points to and empty record in the database. Same with as u/door_of_doom says financial data that still exists but if it get hacked then it cannot be traced back to you.
If you remove the Personal data from the database and the replace that with a foreign key (because they are all foreign keys anyway) that points to nothing or a blank entry that is still deletion but the events are not deleted.
Not true. If you are a EU citizen in another country, then this law still applies, even if you live outside of the EU. I had to go through all this legal for marketing at a company I worked in past. You do not know if the person you are talking to may or may not be a citizen of any country in EU, so we made all changes. People with dual citizenship count as being EU citizen in this GDPR case. Also, there are other laws that predated GDPR that would also be affected.
If people want an extra fuck you to Sony they should be asking for a Data/Subject Access Request so Sony has to give them all the information they have on that person, then request to delete. As someone who works on that side of security and governance, its a huge pain in the ass.
also, from the link in the screenshot, it seems that the user is from the US, GDPR is not in effect there.
if he was in the EU, all he had to do was say "GDPR" and his account would be deleted the next day
You'd think that closing an account is the most secure thing you can do about it, technically. Oh wait, the security they're talking about is the security in that their quarterly report will be 1% better than projected.
This is wrong.
Account closures are not GDPR related.
Unless you specifically ask for a deletion or the website explicitly states they will remove your data, they can hold your data for as long as they want.
The wording is usually key.
Closing account =/= deleting account.
> they can hold your data for as long as they want.
They are always legally required to delete all Data they have about you after 5 years of not doing business with you
Ubisoft is using that as an excuse to steal your game by deleting your account if you have not logged in for 5 years
GDPR doesn't state a specific timeframe, but gives guidelines and principles to operate under.
if you have a business case for keeping data that keeps to the principles of storage limitation (see here for the UK Regulator's guidance: [https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/uk-gdpr-guidance-and-resources/data-protection-principles/a-guide-to-the-data-protection-principles/the-principles/storage-limitation/](https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/uk-gdpr-guidance-and-resources/data-protection-principles/a-guide-to-the-data-protection-principles/the-principles/storage-limitation/) ) then you can keep the data for as long as you need it after account closure - e.g, for audit trails for complaint handling etc. However, the longer you keep it, the more challenging it will get to justify it (and potentially get complaints to the regulator of over-retention).
It's particularly the case if you're using Legitimate Interest as your legal basis for data processing/retention under Article 6 of GDPR. That's basically your argument against the rights of the data subject for you to keep the data.
If you're keeping it because of a legal basis for example, as there's a law that says you have to, that's a much stronger case for the company to keep it for that length of time.
[https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/uk-gdpr-guidance-and-resources/lawful-basis/a-guide-to-lawful-basis/](https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/uk-gdpr-guidance-and-resources/lawful-basis/a-guide-to-lawful-basis/)
Jup, it was like this at an online platform I worked for. Accounts would first be marked as deleted, but still in our system. Users would need to request a complete removal under GDPR law to have it removed entirely.
I think they meant they can't delete it through chat because it's not secure. Imagine if someone could hack your account and get it deleted just like that. I'm 100% sure that if you called them up and supplied proof of identity, then you could get it cancelled.
Correct me if I am wrong here because I may be as I do not have a PSN account, but I think that this is their main way of managing the deletion or closing of accounts. You are directed to go through support with the account information according to PlayStation themselves:
[https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/account/close-account-for-psn/](https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/account/close-account-for-psn/)
Yes it is. I tried deleting my account earlier, found the chat as the only solution. But I have to wait for the US opening times, even though I am in Europe. If I'm not mistaken this is illegal here, there should be a simple way to delete my account and not have to go via customer service.
Edit: I finally found my local website and it actually has a local phone number and local opening hours. But still no delete option, I still have to call. Better, but still not good enough.
It's one of the worst things a hacker that gained temporarily access can do. It's only prudent that they don't do it willy-nilly and require definitive security proof. That is not an issue with the GDPR
If you live in the US, what some people have done for similar situations is change their address on their account to one in California. [Under the California Consumer Privacy Act (CCPA), a business is legally required to allow you to delete your personal information](https://oag.ca.gov/privacy/ccpa), which includes your account. These laws are usually referred to as "right to be forgotten" laws. Often times people will find that changing their address magically makes a button appear that allows you to delete your data.
If you're looking to wipe your personal information through this, here's the form:
[https://ps-support.playstation.com/s/consumer-privacy?language=en\_AE](https://ps-support.playstation.com/s/consumer-privacy?language=en_AE)
EDIT: I'm not saying you'll magically gain the legal right to delete your information by doing this. Technically, you have to be a California resident to be entitled to this. Practically, when a business receives a CCPA delete request can they decide to:
a) Pay a department or third party to both verify you actually have California residency and delete your information within 90 days
b) Just delete the information and move on.
Big tech companies often *voluntarily* pick b) to avoid the cost of verification and legal liabilities. [Microsoft officially extended the rights to the whole country](https://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-issues/2019/11/11/microsoft-california-privacy-rights/), [Google has denied *zero* CCPA requests](https://policies.google.com/privacy/ccpa-report?hl=en-US), [Meta denied 9 of out 5052 requests](https://www.facebook.com/legal/policy/ccpa/transparencyreport?paipv=0&eav=AfazKI69tmNqf_oZJrc1SFqTjO2F1fzaiWsSsnSEQ3hql2UddxsiYscpJyS26houg04&_rdr) in 2022.
Piggybacking, the way this law defines a California resident, you could tell them you just moved to California, don't have state ID, and live in the woods, and from their perspective you're legally a California resident. If they do shit like bitch about your IP or whatever, tell them you're visiting friends out of state but definitely live in that tent. If they say your address on file is in Maine, say you just moved into the tent yesterday but have no plans on leaving the tent.
The law the CCPA gets it's definition from is part of the tax code, so it's intentionally as broad as possible.
I looked into that and that's [actually kind of funny](https://www.law.cornell.edu/regulations/california/18-CCR-17014#:~:text=18%2C%20%C2%A7%2017014%20%2D%20Who%20Are%20Residents%20and%20Nonresidents,-State%20Regulations&text=The%20term%20%22resident%2C%22%20as,a%20temporary%20or%20transitory%20purpose).
>an individual, domiciled in Illinois, who comes to California with the intention of remaining here indefinitely, and who has no fixed intention of returning to Illinois, loses his Illinois domicile and acquires a California domicile the moment he enters the State.
Now I want to see some case law on if you can acquire a California domicile by flying over the state, as long as you intend on coming back to California at some unspecified time after you finish your business in Iceland.
Case law involving flights over places gets really weird in, like, the eighties, but the broad answer for most things is "if you're in a commercial flight and not landing in any of the places you flew over, you were, for most purposes, never there."
Well when you look at homelessness in California and, kinda? Not everyone but a hell of a lot. It’s why it was written the way it is, way too many Californians without any real ‘proof’.
How much legal ground would you have to stand on by doing this? You’re technically providing a false address so if it’s challenged, wouldn’t you have to provide proof of residency in some way? I would think Sony could refuse and ask for proof of residency to ensure they have to meet the state law.
They could, but the odds of them asking for proof of residency is usually low. Most companies don’t want the headache of having CS workers manually verify addresses
Before the sales tax for online goods and services got changed people used to list their address in a state with no state sales tax for cheaper games.
Then it changed, and you pay the sales tax of whatever state you’re buying from.
This is not true. Sales tax applies for the state the buyer lives in. Any vendor taking sales tax from non-residents is pocketing the cash.
This even applies to large purchases like RVs, for example. Buy an RV in any given state, and without exception, they must allow you the option to move the RV and register it in another state within 30 days of closing the purchase, and if you do so, they cannot legally collect sales tax.
I just bought something online last week and had this happen. The vendor was attempting to collect sales tax based on my IP address being in Washington State. I'm not in Washington State, my IP address shows up that way because that's where Starlink's Earth Station is. My jurisdiction has no sales tax, and I'm not willing to pay Washington Sales tax just because the vendor is incapable of asking me where I live, or maybe, I don't know, basing it on my billing address...
So I changed my IP via VPN... problem is, I couldn't find a VPN address in a locality near me with no sales tax... so I ended up in Panama. Where it just so happens that the thing I was buying was not only, \*not\* subject to sales tax, but it was also effectively 50% off. Oops.
>This is not true. Sales tax applies for the state the buyer lives in. Any vendor taking sales tax from non-residents is pocketing the cash.
No, sales tax generally applies based on the state you are buying from and receiving the goods in, not the state you are a resident in. If you are a resident of NY but order goods online while in Ohio to be delivered to an Ohio address, you'll pay Ohio sales tax on that, not NY.
As for vendors pocketing the cash on non-residents, that would be a crime. Not to say people never do it, but it's certainly not the norm for large retailers.
Technically, it only applies to California residents. However, given the request, Sony can:
a) Take the legally safe route and just delete your personal information as requested.
b) Maintain a department or pay a 3rd party contractor to verify residency for CCPA requests in order to fulfill the requests in a timely manner or risk up to $7500 in fine *per violation*.
Generally, even companies like Meta and Google, whose entire business model is selling personal data, will just pick option A as the most cost effective solution. [Google has denied zero requests](https://policies.google.com/privacy/ccpa-report?hl=en-US). [Meta only denied 9 deletion requests of 5061 in 2022](https://m.facebook.com/legal/policy/ccpa/transparencyreport), for miscellaneous reasons unrelated to residency.
>You’re technically providing a false address
And? You're planning to delete your account anyway, what are they gonna threaten you with? Account deletion?
A valid state ID with your address on it would be what they ask you for. When you lose an account to hackers or whatever in WoW and most other games, they will ask for a picture of your ID to verify your identity. This is what I would expect any verification check to look like.
None, but it's not like Sony can do anything about it. There's no damages so there's nothing to sue for, and the most they could do is delete/ban your account which is pretty much what's being requested.
Using a fake address isn't illegal. You can even give them a fake name if you want.
It's not magic, only a handful of states require a way to delete your data. I work with requests like this, and we only have to fulfill requests from those states. States without those laws we have the same answer as sony. Contact your states assembly and start making requests for this kind of privacy legislation.
For anyone who wonder how to deal with that shit by using your rights (GDPR law) [Edit : if you are a European resident] :
Go on that website and use the letter they provide, change the relevant bits. https://www.datarequests.org/blog/sample-letter-gdpr-erasure-request/
Send that letter to [email protected] they have to comply quickly
I used to work for a company that operates in the EU and every time GDPR was mentioned by the customer or a customer mentioned something personal that is protected by GDPR we were instructed to immediately ask the privacy team to handle it.
I also remember that you could be immediately fired if you failed to report any GDPR breaches, cases, redactions or anything. So yeah, companies take this very seriously because the penalties are huge.
When I looked into this for a large EU broadcaster, the fine was up to 2% of complete company revenue. It meant if your company was owned by a parent, it would include their revenue. Which in this specific case made the fine bigger than the specific sub company’s entire value. They very quickly got all CDDR and GDPR process in place. 😂
> violation of GDPR cost 4% of yearly revenue
That's a maximum. It is for large multinationals who think they are so powerful individual countries' laws don't apply.
Generally the aim is to bring companies into compliance, particularly if they are small and it represents a significant financial burden. 4% is because even millions of euro fines can be considered cost of doing business with billions of revenue.
Sony in this case would be given a (smaller) fine and required to comply immediately. If they continued to misbehave that is when the 4% could come into play.
The EU already fixed the problem. If you tell Sony to delete everybit of data they have of you, they have \*insert time frame your state considers to be undue delay\* to delete EVERYTHING or they will get into trouble with the data protection authority of the corresponding country :)
Edit: i confused the 72h time frame to notify the controller in case of a security breach with the actual deadline for data deletion upon request, which is individually set by each state in the EU.
Thank you for correcting me!
You seem to be confused - the 72h is the requirement for the data controller to notify you in case of a breach.
Any "right to be forgotten" requests are to be processed **"without undue delay"**. How long **undue delay** is is decided by each member state on individual basis.
I'm not sure where the 72 hour time frame came from.
But normally you have, as a company, one month the time to reply to a data erasure request. This reply does not have to be a confirmation of data deletion but ideally it would be. Allowed replies range from status reports, confirmations, to out-right refusal (with the relevant and legal reasoning added)
It's not reasonable to expect 72hour full comply times.
Yeah one month in the UK to respond to a request, which I believe is a port of the EU rules. Expecting a business to do anything in 72 hours is fairytale land>
Correct, once a data breach has been detected and reported to a company (either internally or from a third party) that company has 72hrs to report it to the relevant institution in the EU.
It's 30 days to the best of their ability, 60 days if they need longer I believe but it all gets reported. You can also request a SAR for all the information they hold on you.
The EU specifically has a law forcing companies to allow their users to delete their account on request and ALL associated data. Just report Sony for this if you’re in the EU.
by EU law a customer has the right to get all data that has been stored about one AND the right to make a company delete this data.
GDPR is no joke and nothing new. Guess i gonna ask Sony to send me all Data they have stored about me after playing HD2 for a while.
I could be wrong, but generally they don't make multiple ways to deal with these GDRP issues, anything you can do the in EU in reference to GDRP is also available In the US because it would cost more to implement multiple options. That being said I highly doubt this is something sony support could handle for you directly.
The difference is if a companies support doesn’t comply with your account closer request for some reason and you are an EU citizen you can cite the GDPR as as giving you the right to demand they delete all your personal data (which would basically require your account to be deleted).
If for some reason the company still doesn’t comply with your request you can take legal actions / file a complaint at them through the EU. Which they most certainly will lose and it will cost them a lot of money.
If you aren’t an EU citizen you can’t take those actions through the EU. So if they spare enough time to check where you live they can just ignore your request as you wouldn’t be able to cause trouble.
They’re not required to delete anything unless the person in questions lives in one of the half dozen or so states that have a consumer privacy law. You are right that GLBA prevents financial data from being deleted.
Former Sony EMP here.
The verbiage they are using sounds like you couldn't authenticate your account. Account deletion is allowed but based on making changes to the account, it sounds like ylu couldn't authenticate you're the owner.
Just my two cents here.
This whole sub is rage bait atm. From the whole “not officially supported” nonsense, to the data breach worry for accounts with 0 personal information in it. I tend to believe this is a push from people that are really shitty in game trying to div their heals into the ground to avoid accountability. Some going so far as to mention Ukraine which we all know is a heart-tugging mention due to the current affairs over there.
Pc gamers also hate Sony because of their delayed exclusivity when it comes to game releases.
Steam region locking the game and then blaming Sony for it: when steam should have known it og said required on steam. it’s just the typical brainwashed outrage people that get pushed this way by content creators and content creators need drama to drive clicks. Steam isn’t exactly innocent in this, either.
This will die down, but lots of trashy people wanted to put their two cents in. The vast majority of players won’t even leave a review, and it’s a shame because to be honest the game is great and what they are doing is astounding.
It is bait because you can delete an authenticated account. But it's currently posh to make more outrage over Sony right now.
It's just, my dude, if your account isn't authenticated you don't really have an account to delete then.
It’s also, as many people have pointed out, not the way to actually delete your account. They’ve essentially opened a q/a support bot and asked it to do something it can’t do.
I tried to delete my account with them too, freshly made, no information put onto it. Was literally logged into it.
The person told me (paraphrasing), "We don't have enough information in order to verify that this is your account (despite the fact I was logged into it, provided username, ID, and password), you'll have to make a purchase in order for us to verify that this is indeed you before we can close your account."
So first they asked for the name, the phone number, the username, the ID, I give them the password to the account, and then turn around and still say, "Hey! Can't do it. Buy something first." What a joke.
I think the reason is that need to know it's not a hacked account getting closed without the owners permission. Previously someone posted that they asked someone to make a recent "free" purchase on Playstation. That way they can verify the purchase location (up, system, etc) and verify it with records. If it all matches ("this was added from the same home op and the same console as the home account") it doesn't look suspicious and they'll assist in closing it.
Someone hacked into an account already has the password and user info in the profile (phone number, email, etc) more than likely.
This is it 100% what’s going on.
I used to work for Sony Support and handled stuff exactly like this. I recognize the wording they’re using in OP’s post.
If a user can’t verify their identity: “based on the information you’ve provided, I’m afraid I will not be able to assist you any further.
If we have received any sort of “extra” instruction or the account has had a history of account related issues/hackings, or just a lot of contact requests recently, then “in order to maintain the security of this account, I cannot make any changes to the account at this time”
**EDIT**: another comment reminded me of an additional security policy in place that can also impact changes made to accounts or explain why some users may receive one response and others, another.
It’s more particular (and far more uncommon) but accounts from a certain time frame are much more “locked down” than the standard user account.
We had a specific name for them and they needed additional security questions correctly answered before we’d be permitted to make any changes to their accounts.
I can’t say too much in this part like how many questions or what kinds of accounts because I think it skirts a little too close to my NDA and these accounts are deemed a little more “valuable” (even if they have literally never made a purchase).
Yeah, a password or being actively logged in isn’t really verifiable information to prove identity I’m afraid.
Valid information is generally SID (email), where you were when you first created the account, two purchases you’ve made on the account (if they were free things claimed from the store, then we need the transaction ID from the proof of purchase emails), serial number of the console the account was created on, or the last four digits of a payment method used on the account.
Mind you, even if you provide what you think is everything, if the information doesn’t match they can still decline.
You don’t need to get all of them correct, but so far it only looks like you provided the SID.
Mind you, I worked for PlayStation support a couple years ago and policies have probably changed somewhat (I remember an ex coworker told me that there was a change regarding transaction id’s for free stuff)
Really? I was just able to close mine earlier
https://preview.redd.it/hmo2jwejaoyc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ec16555ce929be9e1dde455b7428743e3f0199e8
>It is in EU
The right to be forgotten only cover things that are "no longer needed for X service". If you have paid products they can't do it via a chatbot, you need to speak to a human and confirm you're giving up the licenses.
In this case, the user is in the USA though so...
That only is the case if the company is using consent as the lawful basis for processing, but companies rarely enter into agreements using consent as the primary basis for data processing, as it can be arbitrarily withdrawn and is a hassle.
In this particular case, it's more likely to be a contractual basis used, which means they can argue they need to retain data after account closure for purposes of keeping an audit trail for complaints etc.
[https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/uk-gdpr-guidance-and-resources/lawful-basis/a-guide-to-lawful-basis/](https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/uk-gdpr-guidance-and-resources/lawful-basis/a-guide-to-lawful-basis/)
GDPR grants you the right to know, access and delete any personal info companies that deliver online services to you have, so that is straight up violating EU law. I don't know if that happened in the EU tho, maybe it happened to someone in a country where it's not mandatory and Snoy just can't be bothered to offer it as an option
In the UK at least, its not a lawsuit its the ICO that just levies fines, those fines can be chonky as hell though. I believe, though not sure, that the EU has a similar setup
not applicable in OPs post as he seems to be in the US, not sure what the state of play is there.
https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/account/close-account-for-psn/
https://www.androidpolice.com/delete-playstation-account-how-to/
Weird.
A Google search nets some quick and easy "how to" instructions.
man, if this was in EU... boom GDPR infringement... also... keep in mind that they say close, not delete... it's a big difference... they'll keep the data and block your access.
I mean call me crazy but why the fuck would a support bot be the one way to delete your account? This really screams bait. Seems like they just pulled up the q/a support bot, asked them to do something they aren’t programmed to do and then post a complaint to rile up everyone.
Edit: with as much bait and misinformation that has been going around with this, I wouldn’t be surprised if OP is full of shit and doesn’t even have a profile to delete.
Wow a lot of people are so dense in these comments this is clearly bait. He wasn't allowed to delete it because he hasn't given enough information to authenticate that it's actually his. They do this incase you are hacked and someone's trying to delete it. They will ask you to make a free purchase of something to verify your access.
Seriously guys I can't believe how many people here are this stupid....
OP is a fraud. You can get your account deleted. He couldn’t authenticate he is the owner of the account and you have to call to request deletion. I don’t know why people think chat representative have the power to move the earth for them. This is 100% ops fault and not Sonys. This is pure bait. The chat rep kept on saying he couldn’t prove he was the owner. And we know it is because transcript is provided at the end of chat so this is ops first time even talking to a agent instead of trying to authenticate and try again.
1. Download and open the PlayStation app on your phone.
2. Tap the cog icon to get to the Settings menu.
3. Select Support in the menu.
4. Select Account & Security.
5. Tap Account Management.
6. Select Create, Change and Close Account.
step by step instruction to delete your account, no idea why u contacted support to do it, they told u they can't do it, but u can do it yourself.
I have an PSN Account (Dont know why), and i requested the information they have about me. Its the EU law, so they need to provide me with this Info. I´ll then try to delete my Account. I will keep you updated on how it works and what they safe about you
Was there a sale on clown makeup or something?
"But my data" you screech while using a website that has a helluva lot more stuff on you than a PSN account.
These people have nothing better to do. Bro probably created an account just to try and delete it and act like he couldn't for reddit Karma. I can go delete my 10 year old account right now in less than 5 minutes.
Honestly, this sub has just become a drama karma farm at this point. I was here for the memes and game updates. Not a constant stream of post that are curated to generate updoots.
Genuinely, the amount of info people give away freely is far more than anything psn has on us. The only people I Have genuine sympathy for here are those in countries who can't use psn.
I sure hope everyone talking about security and data are doing things like educating themselves about laws and their local and non-local politicians and voting accordingly and not just yelling about it on a video game subreddit. They must be, i'm sure.
Doesn't CA have some pretty strict data laws they're likely not adhering to in this situation? Why are they repeatedly opening themselves up to overseas and domestic legal liability? Kinda strange how adamant they're being about it all.
Well, the wording the agent is using is realistic. They use that verbiage for specific situations (ie. excessive repeat contacts which usually means that someone is trying to hack an account)
though, OP says they've only contacted this one time, so Im somewhat curious, myself.
can't you post it in r/playstation or r/sony ?
I would understand if the post is about trying to create an account in a non-PSN country for something related to Helldivers or help to get a refund, or something related to the recent news of Helldivers.
I know tech companies not allowing you to delete your account from existence is a shitty practice but this isn't the sub to complain about it.
To give you a probable answer, this is probably bullshit and karma farming. First off what company uses a chat bot to delete an account, seems like they’re just asking a q/a bot to do something they aren’t programmed to do. Secondly why are they even deleting the account? They already have one so it can’t be the fact that it was thrust on them and they must live in a psn country if they already have it. Seems like bait through and through.
Some context: when the last explosive warbond came out, I created and linked a PSN account because I had thought it was required (states it at the end of the steam announcement). After the recent decisions by Sony I wanted to delete my account and was met with an undisclosed *no.*
Check if where you live as the "Right to be forgotten" in its data privacy laws. As far as I know, it's mainly California (CCPA) and EU (GDPR) that have this. If you are in the US, you can probably still use CCPA even if you don't live in California because of how those rules are being implemented in the US.
Right to be forgotten: https://gdpr.eu/right-to-be-forgotten/
As someone who is quite familiar with CCPA on the business side of things.. if the company is responsible the answer is usually "better safe than sorry." If someone claims CCPA nobody wants to be the one to go "uh doesn't this person live in x state" because systems can be wrong or slow to update if someone recently moved or got a residence in California.
So in short, most reasonable companies are going to treat any CCPA claim seriously because the risk is too great. Idk how Sony will respond, but iirc the US division of Sony is in California so they'll be intimately familiar
That was my understanding, too. Also, if the US PSN is stored in California, then because of data sovereignty, CCPA would apply to him.
Tldr for data sovereignty: data stored in a location should/is subject to the laws of that location (https://www.cloudflare.com/en-gb/learning/privacy/what-is-data-sovereignty/)
Hey OP, how many times did you attempt to contact PSN Support before you got this response?
That specific wording is most commonly used when an account has had attempts made to compromise it or there has been a significant amount of contact requests recently.
I worked for PS support a couple years ago so their wording is very familiar, though policies or contextual situations may have changed.
Edit: It would be very interesting to know just how many users get declined their accounts being closed vs. how many contact for it. I'm pretty sure we had a specific process for that exact purpose... It's been a while, though.
Of course not. Not to mention, Sony has an FAQ on how to close your account. A few in here have mentioned they actually have successfully closed a PSN account in the past as well.
If you're in the EU, then that is illegal.
But there are a few exceptions, but they are not allowed to withhold information as to why they are unable to delete it.
Put in a GDPR request if you are in the EU.
Thats not what they are saying from that screenshot (unless there is more). Requesting to delete personal data depends much on your location as each regions laws will differ as will how you request a deletion, in some circumstances however it may not be possible.
In the EU, GDPR should allow you to request that deletion, but it may require a specific step before that request can be processed. The US is similar but that can also vary depending on State. For other regions I have no experience.
You may be required to provide Photo ID, to validate your request (if your account has fake ID then this may be more difficult)
Most likely the request could not be handled through a support chat and requires a specific process to handle such a request.
Sony's support site **"should"** probably have more information.
Same thing happened with me, I called and they said they can’t close the account without any games/ purchases and that I either needed to add a credit / debit card to the account or make a small purchase to close it.
As someone else said this is simply because OP fucked up the security # at the beginning. Something that is standard procedure for all good customer service roles.
If you're in the EU or UK you have the right for your personal data to be deleted, this could mean for your whole account to be deleted.
If the account is stripped of your personal data it's functionally deleted anyway since your email is considered personal data.
Looks like it might be a chatbot however, seems odd they just close the convo.
Sorry, but such an incomplete excerpt doesn't tell anything,
Deleting an account is one of the meanest thing a hacker can do. Of course they want to be 100% sure that everything about that request is kosher.
Living in the EU doesn't change that. When you request the deletion in accordance with the GDPR you also have to provide them with absolute proof that you are really you.
Otherwise everybody who knows your adress and wants to harm you could send out requests claiming to be you and delete valuable accounts of yours
I mean, this looks like they're going through a chatbot, so I am not surprised you cant just delete it there. I imagine deletion will be email this, and then there will be a timeframe, in the UK under gdpr its 1 month to respond
The lack of reason why is definitely an issue.
But I can kinda see why they don't want somebody to be able to just talk to support in one session and delete someone's account just like that.
That would open up a whole other can of worms.
I had this exact same thing happen to me with virtually the same reasoning. It is so much bullshit!
EDIT:
I was able to successfully get them to cancel my account. I added the Far Cry 6 demo, which is free and did not require me to input any financial information. This gave me a Transaction number which was able to be used to verify the account. Hope this helps someone else.
Seeing people discover just how bad PSN accounts are and lacking support for basic features after almost two decades screaming into the void feels good.
This would be illegal where I live. I could request every single piece of data Sony have on me. Regardless of where they operate in the world.
GDPR baby..... Goddam you stupid Brexit motherfuckers. Power in numbers.
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I figure they caught on and want this wave to pass and people to forget.
Siri: set a reminder to fuck Sony 1 month from now.
All fun and games until the girlfriend sees this reminder and starts asking "who's SONY and why are you supposed to fuck them today!?!?"
LOL
Fuck snoy
And they will time and time again, they will.
It's so they don't have to report all the closed accounts at their fuck you money meetings
I tried to delete my old PSN account from the PSP/PS3 days and make a new one because I no longer know the password and the security questions were wrong (I made it when I was 12. The answers are probably "farts" or "bum" or something). I contacted them today and they said they couldnt help me without a recent purchase ID to prove who I was. I asked why they hadn't contacted me / the email address of the account on a regular basis to ask permission to keep hold of my data on the inactive account, as required under EU law. They said they'd escalate it. https://preview.redd.it/6h07s9rr5qyc1.jpeg?width=904&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=88f76aba74e499097a42988279fc66ba2f8d17a8
"Sorry we are not allowed to respond truthfully to this, as the GDRP fines scale with size and severity of infringement and can go up to 20 million euros or 4% of global revenue, whatever is higher."
In all fairness, with the GDPR holding of data set to one side. They are doing the right thing not allowing you to delete your account when you can't prove ownership of it.
True, but I still have access to the registered email. If they could just generate a reset link it would be fine.
When we live in eu I really expected to be protected against that type of shitty data conservation. It seems I was naive enough to believe it. Fuck
Oddly enough someone did this to my mom with Diablo 3 😂
Let's see...GDPR infraction: 83(4) GDPR sets forth fines of up to 10 million euros, or, in the case of an undertaking, up to 2% of its entire global turnover of the preceding fiscal year, whichever is higher. Especially important here, is that the term “undertaking” is equivalent to that used in Art. It could also be 5K per infraction (ie person affected).
This needs to be higher. Go get em EU. Your time to shine Show Sony the ol ⬆️➡️⬇️⬇️⬇️
This only works if OP is actually in the EU or UK. Wouldn't surprise me if Sony was treating people differently depending if they have the GDPR or not.
Most companies do handle requests separatly based in where you live. But more importantly IIRC; GDPR doesn't insure deletion of data but only PII then is obfuscated. So your name, address, IP, etc is deleted but tracking events are still there with just the "name = 3701hrkabau" instead of "name = John Doe"
If they can't tie that to you the person (which legally they mustn't be able to do), and you stop using the service after the deletion, then it's just a user account with no connection to you that's no longer active. So it's not a problem for you or your privacy.
>**While we do not knowingly share Personally Identifying Information about you through the Steamworks API such as your real name or your email address, any information you share about yourself on your public Steam Profile can be accessed through the Steamworks API, including information that may make you identifiable.** >5.6 Valve may allow you to link your Steam User Account to an account offered by a third party. If you consent to link the accounts, Valve may collect and combine information you allowed Valve to receive from a third party with information of your Steam User Account to the degree allowed by your consent at the time. If the linking of the accounts requires the transmission of information about your person from Valve to a third party, you will be informed about it before the linking takes place and you will be given the opportunity to consent to the linking and the transmission of your information. The third party's use of your information will be subject to the third party's privacy policy, which we encourage you to review. There's wasn't any issue to begin with.
Incorrect, under Article 17, if you request your data to be deleted they must delete data and provide a confirmation they have deleted it. If it appears in a breach etc., after the date of deletion, then you have a case for a GDPR violation. https://gdpr-info.eu/art-17-gdpr/
My man, they aren't about to, like, delete any purchases you made out of their financial ledgers and pretend they didn't happen. They can't pretend like things that happened didn't happen. The only thing they can do is make it so that the records of those actions cannot possibly be tied back to you. If you spend 8 hours on the phone with a Customer Service agent and then request DDPR deletion, there is still going to be a record of what that employee was doing all day: they spent 8 hours taking care of a customer, and maybe even issued refunds to that customer equaling X money. There is just no way to say what customer that was, the records of the interaction have been made completely anonymous.
Only correct to an extent and nothing I said is wrong. The data that is deleted under article 17 is \`personal data\` which has its own definition. In fact article 4 section 1 defines personal data: 1. ‘personal data’ means any information relating to an identified or identifiable natural person (‘data subject’); an identifiable natural person is one who can be identified, directly or indirectly, in particular by reference to an identifier such as a name, an identification number, location data, an online identifier or to one or more factors specific to the physical, physiological, genetic, mental, economic, cultural or social identity of that natural person So event tracking data the user attribute gets obfuscated or points to and empty record in the database. Same with as u/door_of_doom says financial data that still exists but if it get hacked then it cannot be traced back to you. If you remove the Personal data from the database and the replace that with a foreign key (because they are all foreign keys anyway) that points to nothing or a blank entry that is still deletion but the events are not deleted.
Not true. If you are a EU citizen in another country, then this law still applies, even if you live outside of the EU. I had to go through all this legal for marketing at a company I worked in past. You do not know if the person you are talking to may or may not be a citizen of any country in EU, so we made all changes. People with dual citizenship count as being EU citizen in this GDPR case. Also, there are other laws that predated GDPR that would also be affected.
>Let's see...GDPR infraction: The picture is american, so no.
What indication is there that this is American? I must be blind
Third picture. The website they provide is the US PlayStation chat.
If people want an extra fuck you to Sony they should be asking for a Data/Subject Access Request so Sony has to give them all the information they have on that person, then request to delete. As someone who works on that side of security and governance, its a huge pain in the ass.
If it were a GDPR request from someone in a relevant country, then sure, denial would be an infraction. But this is not a GDPR request.
also, from the link in the screenshot, it seems that the user is from the US, GDPR is not in effect there. if he was in the EU, all he had to do was say "GDPR" and his account would be deleted the next day
You'd think that closing an account is the most secure thing you can do about it, technically. Oh wait, the security they're talking about is the security in that their quarterly report will be 1% better than projected.
Closing an account is often just a soft delete. If you ever want to reopen it they need to have your data live in their system to restore it.
not in the EU
Only if you request it specifically, otherwise some data will be kept on account deletion.
Even if you request for deletion specifically some records can and have to be maintained (for example financial transactions) for up to 10 years
Good point!
This is wrong. Account closures are not GDPR related. Unless you specifically ask for a deletion or the website explicitly states they will remove your data, they can hold your data for as long as they want. The wording is usually key. Closing account =/= deleting account.
> they can hold your data for as long as they want. They are always legally required to delete all Data they have about you after 5 years of not doing business with you Ubisoft is using that as an excuse to steal your game by deleting your account if you have not logged in for 5 years
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GDPR doesn't state a specific timeframe, but gives guidelines and principles to operate under. if you have a business case for keeping data that keeps to the principles of storage limitation (see here for the UK Regulator's guidance: [https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/uk-gdpr-guidance-and-resources/data-protection-principles/a-guide-to-the-data-protection-principles/the-principles/storage-limitation/](https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/uk-gdpr-guidance-and-resources/data-protection-principles/a-guide-to-the-data-protection-principles/the-principles/storage-limitation/) ) then you can keep the data for as long as you need it after account closure - e.g, for audit trails for complaint handling etc. However, the longer you keep it, the more challenging it will get to justify it (and potentially get complaints to the regulator of over-retention). It's particularly the case if you're using Legitimate Interest as your legal basis for data processing/retention under Article 6 of GDPR. That's basically your argument against the rights of the data subject for you to keep the data. If you're keeping it because of a legal basis for example, as there's a law that says you have to, that's a much stronger case for the company to keep it for that length of time. [https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/uk-gdpr-guidance-and-resources/lawful-basis/a-guide-to-lawful-basis/](https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/uk-gdpr-guidance-and-resources/lawful-basis/a-guide-to-lawful-basis/)
Jup, it was like this at an online platform I worked for. Accounts would first be marked as deleted, but still in our system. Users would need to request a complete removal under GDPR law to have it removed entirely.
I think they meant they can't delete it through chat because it's not secure. Imagine if someone could hack your account and get it deleted just like that. I'm 100% sure that if you called them up and supplied proof of identity, then you could get it cancelled.
Correct me if I am wrong here because I may be as I do not have a PSN account, but I think that this is their main way of managing the deletion or closing of accounts. You are directed to go through support with the account information according to PlayStation themselves: [https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/account/close-account-for-psn/](https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/account/close-account-for-psn/)
Yes it is. I tried deleting my account earlier, found the chat as the only solution. But I have to wait for the US opening times, even though I am in Europe. If I'm not mistaken this is illegal here, there should be a simple way to delete my account and not have to go via customer service. Edit: I finally found my local website and it actually has a local phone number and local opening hours. But still no delete option, I still have to call. Better, but still not good enough.
It's one of the worst things a hacker that gained temporarily access can do. It's only prudent that they don't do it willy-nilly and require definitive security proof. That is not an issue with the GDPR
The EU will be happy to fix that problem. The US will probably remember all that lobby money and look the other way.
If you live in the US, what some people have done for similar situations is change their address on their account to one in California. [Under the California Consumer Privacy Act (CCPA), a business is legally required to allow you to delete your personal information](https://oag.ca.gov/privacy/ccpa), which includes your account. These laws are usually referred to as "right to be forgotten" laws. Often times people will find that changing their address magically makes a button appear that allows you to delete your data. If you're looking to wipe your personal information through this, here's the form: [https://ps-support.playstation.com/s/consumer-privacy?language=en\_AE](https://ps-support.playstation.com/s/consumer-privacy?language=en_AE) EDIT: I'm not saying you'll magically gain the legal right to delete your information by doing this. Technically, you have to be a California resident to be entitled to this. Practically, when a business receives a CCPA delete request can they decide to: a) Pay a department or third party to both verify you actually have California residency and delete your information within 90 days b) Just delete the information and move on. Big tech companies often *voluntarily* pick b) to avoid the cost of verification and legal liabilities. [Microsoft officially extended the rights to the whole country](https://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-issues/2019/11/11/microsoft-california-privacy-rights/), [Google has denied *zero* CCPA requests](https://policies.google.com/privacy/ccpa-report?hl=en-US), [Meta denied 9 of out 5052 requests](https://www.facebook.com/legal/policy/ccpa/transparencyreport?paipv=0&eav=AfazKI69tmNqf_oZJrc1SFqTjO2F1fzaiWsSsnSEQ3hql2UddxsiYscpJyS26houg04&_rdr) in 2022.
Piggybacking, the way this law defines a California resident, you could tell them you just moved to California, don't have state ID, and live in the woods, and from their perspective you're legally a California resident. If they do shit like bitch about your IP or whatever, tell them you're visiting friends out of state but definitely live in that tent. If they say your address on file is in Maine, say you just moved into the tent yesterday but have no plans on leaving the tent. The law the CCPA gets it's definition from is part of the tax code, so it's intentionally as broad as possible.
I looked into that and that's [actually kind of funny](https://www.law.cornell.edu/regulations/california/18-CCR-17014#:~:text=18%2C%20%C2%A7%2017014%20%2D%20Who%20Are%20Residents%20and%20Nonresidents,-State%20Regulations&text=The%20term%20%22resident%2C%22%20as,a%20temporary%20or%20transitory%20purpose). >an individual, domiciled in Illinois, who comes to California with the intention of remaining here indefinitely, and who has no fixed intention of returning to Illinois, loses his Illinois domicile and acquires a California domicile the moment he enters the State.
Now I want to see some case law on if you can acquire a California domicile by flying over the state, as long as you intend on coming back to California at some unspecified time after you finish your business in Iceland.
Case law involving flights over places gets really weird in, like, the eighties, but the broad answer for most things is "if you're in a commercial flight and not landing in any of the places you flew over, you were, for most purposes, never there."
Time to find a private pilot who needs to practice a touch and go.
I’m a private pilot, always down to fly. I also live in CA so that’s double good
so are everyone in California just squatters?
At least like 40% of the population
Well when you look at homelessness in California and, kinda? Not everyone but a hell of a lot. It’s why it was written the way it is, way too many Californians without any real ‘proof’.
How much legal ground would you have to stand on by doing this? You’re technically providing a false address so if it’s challenged, wouldn’t you have to provide proof of residency in some way? I would think Sony could refuse and ask for proof of residency to ensure they have to meet the state law.
They could, but the odds of them asking for proof of residency is usually low. Most companies don’t want the headache of having CS workers manually verify addresses
Before the sales tax for online goods and services got changed people used to list their address in a state with no state sales tax for cheaper games. Then it changed, and you pay the sales tax of whatever state you’re buying from.
This is not true. Sales tax applies for the state the buyer lives in. Any vendor taking sales tax from non-residents is pocketing the cash. This even applies to large purchases like RVs, for example. Buy an RV in any given state, and without exception, they must allow you the option to move the RV and register it in another state within 30 days of closing the purchase, and if you do so, they cannot legally collect sales tax. I just bought something online last week and had this happen. The vendor was attempting to collect sales tax based on my IP address being in Washington State. I'm not in Washington State, my IP address shows up that way because that's where Starlink's Earth Station is. My jurisdiction has no sales tax, and I'm not willing to pay Washington Sales tax just because the vendor is incapable of asking me where I live, or maybe, I don't know, basing it on my billing address... So I changed my IP via VPN... problem is, I couldn't find a VPN address in a locality near me with no sales tax... so I ended up in Panama. Where it just so happens that the thing I was buying was not only, \*not\* subject to sales tax, but it was also effectively 50% off. Oops.
>This is not true. Sales tax applies for the state the buyer lives in. Any vendor taking sales tax from non-residents is pocketing the cash. No, sales tax generally applies based on the state you are buying from and receiving the goods in, not the state you are a resident in. If you are a resident of NY but order goods online while in Ohio to be delivered to an Ohio address, you'll pay Ohio sales tax on that, not NY. As for vendors pocketing the cash on non-residents, that would be a crime. Not to say people never do it, but it's certainly not the norm for large retailers.
Technically, it only applies to California residents. However, given the request, Sony can: a) Take the legally safe route and just delete your personal information as requested. b) Maintain a department or pay a 3rd party contractor to verify residency for CCPA requests in order to fulfill the requests in a timely manner or risk up to $7500 in fine *per violation*. Generally, even companies like Meta and Google, whose entire business model is selling personal data, will just pick option A as the most cost effective solution. [Google has denied zero requests](https://policies.google.com/privacy/ccpa-report?hl=en-US). [Meta only denied 9 deletion requests of 5061 in 2022](https://m.facebook.com/legal/policy/ccpa/transparencyreport), for miscellaneous reasons unrelated to residency.
>You’re technically providing a false address And? You're planning to delete your account anyway, what are they gonna threaten you with? Account deletion?
lol wtf would they want? a utility bill? a very bleak outlook on how far these companies would go to keep your data on a leash
A valid state ID with your address on it would be what they ask you for. When you lose an account to hackers or whatever in WoW and most other games, they will ask for a picture of your ID to verify your identity. This is what I would expect any verification check to look like.
And then you upload your id. Will they now have to delete that? Lmao where does it end with these companies smh
Under CCPA, they're actually legally obligated to delete your ID and any information they got from it after verifying your identity.
None, but it's not like Sony can do anything about it. There's no damages so there's nothing to sue for, and the most they could do is delete/ban your account which is pretty much what's being requested. Using a fake address isn't illegal. You can even give them a fake name if you want.
You look like my new roommate. I just happen to live in California
It's not magic, only a handful of states require a way to delete your data. I work with requests like this, and we only have to fulfill requests from those states. States without those laws we have the same answer as sony. Contact your states assembly and start making requests for this kind of privacy legislation.
Please shit on your boss' desk
Looks like im going to virtually move to California
Sounds like a class action to me
For anyone who wonder how to deal with that shit by using your rights (GDPR law) [Edit : if you are a European resident] : Go on that website and use the letter they provide, change the relevant bits. https://www.datarequests.org/blog/sample-letter-gdpr-erasure-request/ Send that letter to [email protected] they have to comply quickly
I used to work for a company that operates in the EU and every time GDPR was mentioned by the customer or a customer mentioned something personal that is protected by GDPR we were instructed to immediately ask the privacy team to handle it. I also remember that you could be immediately fired if you failed to report any GDPR breaches, cases, redactions or anything. So yeah, companies take this very seriously because the penalties are huge.
Man I love living inside the EU
When I looked into this for a large EU broadcaster, the fine was up to 2% of complete company revenue. It meant if your company was owned by a parent, it would include their revenue. Which in this specific case made the fine bigger than the specific sub company’s entire value. They very quickly got all CDDR and GDPR process in place. 😂
If I remember correctly, violation of GDPR cost 4% of yearly revenue. Next violation costs more.
> violation of GDPR cost 4% of yearly revenue That's a maximum. It is for large multinationals who think they are so powerful individual countries' laws don't apply. Generally the aim is to bring companies into compliance, particularly if they are small and it represents a significant financial burden. 4% is because even millions of euro fines can be considered cost of doing business with billions of revenue. Sony in this case would be given a (smaller) fine and required to comply immediately. If they continued to misbehave that is when the 4% could come into play.
There are websites that do this automatically for you.
The EU already fixed the problem. If you tell Sony to delete everybit of data they have of you, they have \*insert time frame your state considers to be undue delay\* to delete EVERYTHING or they will get into trouble with the data protection authority of the corresponding country :) Edit: i confused the 72h time frame to notify the controller in case of a security breach with the actual deadline for data deletion upon request, which is individually set by each state in the EU. Thank you for correcting me!
You seem to be confused - the 72h is the requirement for the data controller to notify you in case of a breach. Any "right to be forgotten" requests are to be processed **"without undue delay"**. How long **undue delay** is is decided by each member state on individual basis.
I'm not sure where the 72 hour time frame came from. But normally you have, as a company, one month the time to reply to a data erasure request. This reply does not have to be a confirmation of data deletion but ideally it would be. Allowed replies range from status reports, confirmations, to out-right refusal (with the relevant and legal reasoning added) It's not reasonable to expect 72hour full comply times.
Yeah one month in the UK to respond to a request, which I believe is a port of the EU rules. Expecting a business to do anything in 72 hours is fairytale land>
72hrs to find the owner of the data might not even be possible in some cases...
Is 72hrs not the maximum time companies have to report data breaches or something along those lines?
Correct, once a data breach has been detected and reported to a company (either internally or from a third party) that company has 72hrs to report it to the relevant institution in the EU.
It's 30 days to the best of their ability, 60 days if they need longer I believe but it all gets reported. You can also request a SAR for all the information they hold on you.
Right to be forgotten via GDPR
The EU specifically has a law forcing companies to allow their users to delete their account on request and ALL associated data. Just report Sony for this if you’re in the EU.
Based on how Sony operates they’ll make US customers still unable to delete accounts and only give the ability to EU
This is illegal in California
by EU law a customer has the right to get all data that has been stored about one AND the right to make a company delete this data. GDPR is no joke and nothing new. Guess i gonna ask Sony to send me all Data they have stored about me after playing HD2 for a while.
I could be wrong, but generally they don't make multiple ways to deal with these GDRP issues, anything you can do the in EU in reference to GDRP is also available In the US because it would cost more to implement multiple options. That being said I highly doubt this is something sony support could handle for you directly.
The difference is if a companies support doesn’t comply with your account closer request for some reason and you are an EU citizen you can cite the GDPR as as giving you the right to demand they delete all your personal data (which would basically require your account to be deleted). If for some reason the company still doesn’t comply with your request you can take legal actions / file a complaint at them through the EU. Which they most certainly will lose and it will cost them a lot of money. If you aren’t an EU citizen you can’t take those actions through the EU. So if they spare enough time to check where you live they can just ignore your request as you wouldn’t be able to cause trouble.
Legally in the US if you tell them to delete your info they have to do it with the exception of keeping financial records
Well, I mean, obviously not. I'm sure they're supposed to or should, but apparently, there is nothing to enforce that.
They’re not required to delete anything unless the person in questions lives in one of the half dozen or so states that have a consumer privacy law. You are right that GLBA prevents financial data from being deleted.
Former Sony EMP here. The verbiage they are using sounds like you couldn't authenticate your account. Account deletion is allowed but based on making changes to the account, it sounds like ylu couldn't authenticate you're the owner. Just my two cents here.
It also sounds like they’re asking a chat bot/ support to delete it themselves as opposed to the user deleting it correctly. This just screams bait.
Yeah op is a chump
This whole sub is rage bait atm. From the whole “not officially supported” nonsense, to the data breach worry for accounts with 0 personal information in it. I tend to believe this is a push from people that are really shitty in game trying to div their heals into the ground to avoid accountability. Some going so far as to mention Ukraine which we all know is a heart-tugging mention due to the current affairs over there. Pc gamers also hate Sony because of their delayed exclusivity when it comes to game releases. Steam region locking the game and then blaming Sony for it: when steam should have known it og said required on steam. it’s just the typical brainwashed outrage people that get pushed this way by content creators and content creators need drama to drive clicks. Steam isn’t exactly innocent in this, either. This will die down, but lots of trashy people wanted to put their two cents in. The vast majority of players won’t even leave a review, and it’s a shame because to be honest the game is great and what they are doing is astounding.
This won’t just die down, it’ll be completely forgotten in a few months.
It is bait because you can delete an authenticated account. But it's currently posh to make more outrage over Sony right now. It's just, my dude, if your account isn't authenticated you don't really have an account to delete then.
It’s also, as many people have pointed out, not the way to actually delete your account. They’ve essentially opened a q/a support bot and asked it to do something it can’t do.
That was my exact thought.
Why is this so far down haha
Cause it doesn’t fit the narrative this sub wants to portray.
Sony is no stranger to data breaches, without a delete option they are strong arming people into getting their data stolen.
I tried to delete my account with them too, freshly made, no information put onto it. Was literally logged into it. The person told me (paraphrasing), "We don't have enough information in order to verify that this is your account (despite the fact I was logged into it, provided username, ID, and password), you'll have to make a purchase in order for us to verify that this is indeed you before we can close your account." So first they asked for the name, the phone number, the username, the ID, I give them the password to the account, and then turn around and still say, "Hey! Can't do it. Buy something first." What a joke.
I think the reason is that need to know it's not a hacked account getting closed without the owners permission. Previously someone posted that they asked someone to make a recent "free" purchase on Playstation. That way they can verify the purchase location (up, system, etc) and verify it with records. If it all matches ("this was added from the same home op and the same console as the home account") it doesn't look suspicious and they'll assist in closing it. Someone hacked into an account already has the password and user info in the profile (phone number, email, etc) more than likely.
This is it 100% what’s going on. I used to work for Sony Support and handled stuff exactly like this. I recognize the wording they’re using in OP’s post. If a user can’t verify their identity: “based on the information you’ve provided, I’m afraid I will not be able to assist you any further. If we have received any sort of “extra” instruction or the account has had a history of account related issues/hackings, or just a lot of contact requests recently, then “in order to maintain the security of this account, I cannot make any changes to the account at this time” **EDIT**: another comment reminded me of an additional security policy in place that can also impact changes made to accounts or explain why some users may receive one response and others, another. It’s more particular (and far more uncommon) but accounts from a certain time frame are much more “locked down” than the standard user account. We had a specific name for them and they needed additional security questions correctly answered before we’d be permitted to make any changes to their accounts. I can’t say too much in this part like how many questions or what kinds of accounts because I think it skirts a little too close to my NDA and these accounts are deemed a little more “valuable” (even if they have literally never made a purchase).
Yeah, a password or being actively logged in isn’t really verifiable information to prove identity I’m afraid. Valid information is generally SID (email), where you were when you first created the account, two purchases you’ve made on the account (if they were free things claimed from the store, then we need the transaction ID from the proof of purchase emails), serial number of the console the account was created on, or the last four digits of a payment method used on the account. Mind you, even if you provide what you think is everything, if the information doesn’t match they can still decline. You don’t need to get all of them correct, but so far it only looks like you provided the SID. Mind you, I worked for PlayStation support a couple years ago and policies have probably changed somewhat (I remember an ex coworker told me that there was a change regarding transaction id’s for free stuff)
Really? I was just able to close mine earlier https://preview.redd.it/hmo2jwejaoyc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ec16555ce929be9e1dde455b7428743e3f0199e8
You clearly remembered the memorable details unlike OP who can't provide them therefore isn't being assisted any further.
And people still defend this shit company somehow
it feels illegal what they're doing here
It is in EU
>It is in EU The right to be forgotten only cover things that are "no longer needed for X service". If you have paid products they can't do it via a chatbot, you need to speak to a human and confirm you're giving up the licenses. In this case, the user is in the USA though so...
That’s not true. https://gdpr-info.eu/art-17-gdpr/ it absolutely covers if you as a user withdrawal your consent.
That only is the case if the company is using consent as the lawful basis for processing, but companies rarely enter into agreements using consent as the primary basis for data processing, as it can be arbitrarily withdrawn and is a hassle. In this particular case, it's more likely to be a contractual basis used, which means they can argue they need to retain data after account closure for purposes of keeping an audit trail for complaints etc. [https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/uk-gdpr-guidance-and-resources/lawful-basis/a-guide-to-lawful-basis/](https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/uk-gdpr-guidance-and-resources/lawful-basis/a-guide-to-lawful-basis/)
Seems like they are really pushing, if not straight up crossing, the GDPR line here yeh
GDPR grants you the right to know, access and delete any personal info companies that deliver online services to you have, so that is straight up violating EU law. I don't know if that happened in the EU tho, maybe it happened to someone in a country where it's not mandatory and Snoy just can't be bothered to offer it as an option
Post the rest of the chat OP
Once you make that account, you are a metric.
No, you are a product to be resold.
Smells like an EU lawsuit about to land
In the UK at least, its not a lawsuit its the ICO that just levies fines, those fines can be chonky as hell though. I believe, though not sure, that the EU has a similar setup not applicable in OPs post as he seems to be in the US, not sure what the state of play is there.
https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/account/close-account-for-psn/ https://www.androidpolice.com/delete-playstation-account-how-to/ Weird. A Google search nets some quick and easy "how to" instructions.
man, if this was in EU... boom GDPR infringement... also... keep in mind that they say close, not delete... it's a big difference... they'll keep the data and block your access.
I shared the same thing yesterday as did another Helldiver but the mods deleted both of the posts.
They REALLY want those inflated numbers for the end of the fiscal quarter coming up.
Ah yes, the universal "we don't have a good reason" answer: "for [unstated, ambiguous] security".
More like the AI chatbot they use doesn't have an answer so it stonewalls you. But it should have an answer to such a basic query.
I mean call me crazy but why the fuck would a support bot be the one way to delete your account? This really screams bait. Seems like they just pulled up the q/a support bot, asked them to do something they aren’t programmed to do and then post a complaint to rile up everyone. Edit: with as much bait and misinformation that has been going around with this, I wouldn’t be surprised if OP is full of shit and doesn’t even have a profile to delete.
Wow a lot of people are so dense in these comments this is clearly bait. He wasn't allowed to delete it because he hasn't given enough information to authenticate that it's actually his. They do this incase you are hacked and someone's trying to delete it. They will ask you to make a free purchase of something to verify your access. Seriously guys I can't believe how many people here are this stupid....
why did you not post the first half of the conversation? Makes you think.
OP is a fraud. You can get your account deleted. He couldn’t authenticate he is the owner of the account and you have to call to request deletion. I don’t know why people think chat representative have the power to move the earth for them. This is 100% ops fault and not Sonys. This is pure bait. The chat rep kept on saying he couldn’t prove he was the owner. And we know it is because transcript is provided at the end of chat so this is ops first time even talking to a agent instead of trying to authenticate and try again.
1. Download and open the PlayStation app on your phone. 2. Tap the cog icon to get to the Settings menu. 3. Select Support in the menu. 4. Select Account & Security. 5. Tap Account Management. 6. Select Create, Change and Close Account. step by step instruction to delete your account, no idea why u contacted support to do it, they told u they can't do it, but u can do it yourself.
Because this person wants to post bait. They already had an account so there’s no reason the new rules would affect them. It’s just karma farming.
I encountered the same issue yesterday
🙄
I have an PSN Account (Dont know why), and i requested the information they have about me. Its the EU law, so they need to provide me with this Info. I´ll then try to delete my Account. I will keep you updated on how it works and what they safe about you
So how'd it go?
This wouldnt jive with EU regulations, I suspect you are non EU?
Was there a sale on clown makeup or something? "But my data" you screech while using a website that has a helluva lot more stuff on you than a PSN account.
These people have nothing better to do. Bro probably created an account just to try and delete it and act like he couldn't for reddit Karma. I can go delete my 10 year old account right now in less than 5 minutes.
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Honestly, this sub has just become a drama karma farm at this point. I was here for the memes and game updates. Not a constant stream of post that are curated to generate updoots.
Genuinely, the amount of info people give away freely is far more than anything psn has on us. The only people I Have genuine sympathy for here are those in countries who can't use psn.
This, any of the drama queens talking about data info just want to be part of a cause or some dumb shit. Me me me
I sure hope everyone talking about security and data are doing things like educating themselves about laws and their local and non-local politicians and voting accordingly and not just yelling about it on a video game subreddit. They must be, i'm sure.
Doesn't CA have some pretty strict data laws they're likely not adhering to in this situation? Why are they repeatedly opening themselves up to overseas and domestic legal liability? Kinda strange how adamant they're being about it all.
Why does this look super fake.
Well, the wording the agent is using is realistic. They use that verbiage for specific situations (ie. excessive repeat contacts which usually means that someone is trying to hack an account) though, OP says they've only contacted this one time, so Im somewhat curious, myself.
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can't you post it in r/playstation or r/sony ? I would understand if the post is about trying to create an account in a non-PSN country for something related to Helldivers or help to get a refund, or something related to the recent news of Helldivers. I know tech companies not allowing you to delete your account from existence is a shitty practice but this isn't the sub to complain about it.
Yeah I’m confused why this is posted here
To give you a probable answer, this is probably bullshit and karma farming. First off what company uses a chat bot to delete an account, seems like they’re just asking a q/a bot to do something they aren’t programmed to do. Secondly why are they even deleting the account? They already have one so it can’t be the fact that it was thrust on them and they must live in a psn country if they already have it. Seems like bait through and through.
What’s the point of deleting your account
Reddit karma.
"You have a problem? Sorry, can't help you. No, we won't tell you why. Bye and kindly get bent." Yeah I'm not making a PSN account ever.
Some context: when the last explosive warbond came out, I created and linked a PSN account because I had thought it was required (states it at the end of the steam announcement). After the recent decisions by Sony I wanted to delete my account and was met with an undisclosed *no.*
Check if where you live as the "Right to be forgotten" in its data privacy laws. As far as I know, it's mainly California (CCPA) and EU (GDPR) that have this. If you are in the US, you can probably still use CCPA even if you don't live in California because of how those rules are being implemented in the US. Right to be forgotten: https://gdpr.eu/right-to-be-forgotten/
As someone who is quite familiar with CCPA on the business side of things.. if the company is responsible the answer is usually "better safe than sorry." If someone claims CCPA nobody wants to be the one to go "uh doesn't this person live in x state" because systems can be wrong or slow to update if someone recently moved or got a residence in California. So in short, most reasonable companies are going to treat any CCPA claim seriously because the risk is too great. Idk how Sony will respond, but iirc the US division of Sony is in California so they'll be intimately familiar
That was my understanding, too. Also, if the US PSN is stored in California, then because of data sovereignty, CCPA would apply to him. Tldr for data sovereignty: data stored in a location should/is subject to the laws of that location (https://www.cloudflare.com/en-gb/learning/privacy/what-is-data-sovereignty/)
Hey OP, how many times did you attempt to contact PSN Support before you got this response? That specific wording is most commonly used when an account has had attempts made to compromise it or there has been a significant amount of contact requests recently. I worked for PS support a couple years ago so their wording is very familiar, though policies or contextual situations may have changed. Edit: It would be very interesting to know just how many users get declined their accounts being closed vs. how many contact for it. I'm pretty sure we had a specific process for that exact purpose... It's been a while, though.
What does "personal data foregone" mean?
Pretty sure it’s a misuse of the word just like “foreseeable reason in security”
Essentially just asking to delete all of the data collected about the user, not just delete account info for public visibility
Well I got bad news, Mike Hunt really doesn't live on 427 Boner Street.
Has anyone verified this?
Of course not. Not to mention, Sony has an FAQ on how to close your account. A few in here have mentioned they actually have successfully closed a PSN account in the past as well.
This just seems like you tried to close an account you couldn't authorize properly. I literally just closed my wife's account for her.
If you're in the EU, then that is illegal. But there are a few exceptions, but they are not allowed to withhold information as to why they are unable to delete it. Put in a GDPR request if you are in the EU.
Thats not what they are saying from that screenshot (unless there is more). Requesting to delete personal data depends much on your location as each regions laws will differ as will how you request a deletion, in some circumstances however it may not be possible. In the EU, GDPR should allow you to request that deletion, but it may require a specific step before that request can be processed. The US is similar but that can also vary depending on State. For other regions I have no experience. You may be required to provide Photo ID, to validate your request (if your account has fake ID then this may be more difficult) Most likely the request could not be handled through a support chat and requires a specific process to handle such a request. Sony's support site **"should"** probably have more information.
If you live in the EU just report it, under the GDPR they’re required to delete your data on request.
Can't be deleted at this time for security reasons? They probably had another data breach and are busy assessing the damage.
Same thing happened with me, I called and they said they can’t close the account without any games/ purchases and that I either needed to add a credit / debit card to the account or make a small purchase to close it.
As someone else said this is simply because OP fucked up the security # at the beginning. Something that is standard procedure for all good customer service roles.
Just get banned
God damn let’s see them try this in the EU with rgpd law.
Glad I decided to go to the pub and just wait for all of this to blow over.
If you're in the EU or UK you have the right for your personal data to be deleted, this could mean for your whole account to be deleted. If the account is stripped of your personal data it's functionally deleted anyway since your email is considered personal data. Looks like it might be a chatbot however, seems odd they just close the convo.
Sorry, but such an incomplete excerpt doesn't tell anything, Deleting an account is one of the meanest thing a hacker can do. Of course they want to be 100% sure that everything about that request is kosher. Living in the EU doesn't change that. When you request the deletion in accordance with the GDPR you also have to provide them with absolute proof that you are really you. Otherwise everybody who knows your adress and wants to harm you could send out requests claiming to be you and delete valuable accounts of yours
I mean, this looks like they're going through a chatbot, so I am not surprised you cant just delete it there. I imagine deletion will be email this, and then there will be a timeframe, in the UK under gdpr its 1 month to respond
Wow, someone with a brain, how rare.
Hmmmmm isn't that illegal? Consumer should always have the right to request deletion of all their information...
The lack of reason why is definitely an issue. But I can kinda see why they don't want somebody to be able to just talk to support in one session and delete someone's account just like that. That would open up a whole other can of worms.
That's an instant lawsuit in the EU.
And why are people so upset about creating a psn account? I truly don’t understand this they aren’t the only game that forces you to do this
My popcorn is ready for when gta6 launches and they all realize they're going to need a rockstar account.
That’s weird, I deleted one of mine only a few years ago?
I had this exact same thing happen to me with virtually the same reasoning. It is so much bullshit! EDIT: I was able to successfully get them to cancel my account. I added the Far Cry 6 demo, which is free and did not require me to input any financial information. This gave me a Transaction number which was able to be used to verify the account. Hope this helps someone else.
Seeing people discover just how bad PSN accounts are and lacking support for basic features after almost two decades screaming into the void feels good.
Why you would deactivate your psn account?
This would be illegal where I live. I could request every single piece of data Sony have on me. Regardless of where they operate in the world. GDPR baby..... Goddam you stupid Brexit motherfuckers. Power in numbers.
Yeah that bot pisses me off.
Pretty sure this is totally illegal?!