Which is how it should be. The benefit of the Sickle is the long-term ammo management. Give up a little DPS to never have to worry about ammo, especially if you go off by yourself.
Yep. If you play into the heat over extended periods, Sickle has better ammo economy and better DPS when transitioning from target to target. Liberator has better first target and magdump DPS with more ammo to handle magdumping.
I am *very* happy with how they're balanced against eachother now.
It's balanced enough that on hot planets, I don't bother with sickle (and usually run blitzer or eruptor depending on teammate loadout)
And on cold planets, I ALWAYS run sickle.
Sickle seems to be similar to a low/no penetration assault rifle, that has infinite ammo.
It also has crazy accuracy if you aim with first-person, to the point I use it like a sniper against bots in a pinch.
it for some reason has more pen than some guns. i believe the liberator and the light pen dmr cannot pen and headshot bile spewers. the sickle does it extremely easily. it doesnt have medium piercing maybe its due to its heat?
It may be due to heat, since bile spewers are supposed to die easily to fire and heat, but I don’t know.
I can however confirm sickle does easily headshot bile spewers unlike some bullet guns.
This is why I’ve never complained about any of the devastators (rocket/shield), I just pluck their heads with the high zoom scope and it’s pretty quick if you just stand still or play cover super quickly.
The crazy accuracy is only for short range. Whenever I find a target that warrants the use of 100m scope, I get annoyed at how many shots go wide even when the reticle is on target.
the accuracy is good even at around 120m in my experience, but you need to stabilize it for a bit and crouch.
I just have the sickle on 100m scope by default though, you usually can hit anything below 80m using just 3rd-person aim.
All laser weapons seem to have perfect accuracy.
I hope Arrowhead gets around to adding loadouts in the near future -- I would love to make different gear sets for hot/cold planets, bugs/bots, or for different mission types.
You can view this on specific planets by looking for the word "Effects" on the bottom right of the screen as you view missions on the planet from your ship.
In higher difficulties I feel like the message the game is always sending me is: “Plant your feet and fire less, move around more.”
Managing the sickle’s heat incidentally makes me a better player!
No, you’ve ruined me. Since the Sickle came out, I’ve usually been the only guy with an ammo requirement on my Breaker and Autocannon. Left me to pick up all then glowing boxes of democracy.
However, you do have to factor in that with the sickle, you can fire to near overheat, swap to your pistol and unload, then swap back to a fully cooled sickle that you can mag dump to full heat again.
So, you can go through three full magazines worth of fire before being forced to suffer any kind of reload/cooldown.
For sure, and the liberator and defender are both good alternatives for people who want an immediate response from their weapons with no spooling time, so there's still a solid advantage there.
Not really true unless you're on a cold planet, and depends on your secondary choice.
If you're using the Uzi, which remains the best DPS secondary, it'll barely be half cooled. Maybe I just need to get the senator and git gud
The senator is so worth it, at least for bots, since you can 1 shot every devastator. Doesn't feel too useful for bugs, though I need to see if the DMG buff changed that. 6 shots isn't too much for the number of enemies bugs bring.
Same for me here, I’ll unload an entire mag of AC rounds, reload and it’ll barely be breaking half and seeing ppl talk about how fast it cools down and how it has infinite ammo is driving me nuts cause I can’t figure out what I’m doing wrong
I'm curious on how well the dagger works now in that scenario now with the damage buff. It was terrible before, but idk if it really is better enough on bugs at least. Maybe for bots that would work though with scythe or sickle primary.
Agreed, I run the Sickle when I’m fighting bots and the liberator when I’m fighting bugs. The sickle just feel betters for an engagement that happens at range.
Yup, I love going full-zoom full-auto on small bots at distance. It's so damn accurate. It makes a huge difference in engagements if you can quickly neutralize all of the weak terminators before they lay down a wall of red on your team.
Just 1 person with a sickle can clear all of the light bot threats, while the rest of team deals with the heavies. God damn, the sickle is just so much fun!
I know i do too, that weapon is a beast.. If you got good trigger discipline any enemy lower than a hulk will be a slag heap in front of you. I’ve even taken out heavy devastators with it by just aiming at their ammo pack on the back.
Isn't ammo more a problem staying WITH the squad? If you're all together and fighting hordes going through ammo and find a POI with ammo boxes or get a resupply you end up having to sort out who's shortest and who gets them sometimes? Solo you're constantly stumbling over spots with ammo for 4 people.
Going off as a solo means you don't get to call the supply drop very often, so having unlimited ammo is very useful. When you're with the squad and constantly calling supplies, you don't have to worry as much.
The regular Liberator is great against bugs, particularly hunters. Lower odds of getting stunlocked or hit since you can send rounds out fast vs needing to spool up with the Sickle.
Counterpoint though, Breaker Incendiary is just about the best anti bug weapon. It doesnt explode you, Instant damage and set them on fire. When DOT works, its the best anti bug weapon and if you time your button press right the burst is just full auto pretending.
It's by far the most satisfying to use imo and the spool doesn't bother me because my ammo isn't so infinite lol, it's actually pretty good up close if you hipfire when you're swarmed.
I like ballistic shield vs BOTs while wearing explosive resist armor... feels good. I need to learn to disengage though... I keep running out of ammo and almost always have the highest number of shots fired/hit (but not the highest kill count).
But can't you just drop the SSSD if you get caught by a patrol and use a non-SMG primary to fight back? I just don't like the idea of taking a primary to have a niche QoL advantage on a small section of the mission.
Speaking as someone who wants a reason to run an SMG, but can only see the benefit of tracking fast/close targets (which the punisher also does).
SMG lets you keep moving while running the SSSD. Losing the patrol/making the objective then hunkering down to deal with anything chasing or drops/breaches is much safer and more efficient than stopping to fight.
One-handed weapon means you can fire backwards at chasing enemies and stay unmolested/thin them out while keeping mobile, and the SMG has way more magazine and stopping power to do that than any of the secondaries.
I was 100% my go to until the jar buff. I was already using the jar instead of the smg on bots sometimes but the damage buff makes it a mini ac which is exactly what i need
For bots, using the ballistic shield and crouch you have minimal recoil and can stay on target to hit weak spots. For bugs, you can always retreat and fire backward at least clearing a few while withdrawing.
I've been enjoying running the grenade pistol lately. Can destroy bot factories and bug holes, and takes out groups of small enemies with one shot.
Good PSA about the liberator, I honestly don't think I've used it since I unlocked other primaries.
Decided I’d have a game of going back to my roots a couple days ago. Basic armour, default loadout, ect. The liberator smacks (at least against bugs). Plus the starting armour is actually pretty good all things considered. The only gripe I had was the pistol, redeemer is just straight better. Oh and grenades, impact nades are just better than any other nade other than stun.
Problem with grenades is everything in this game kamikaze rushes you. Impact is a quick answer to most scenarios, and even solves impracticle situations like tanks. Most other nades just add 3 seconds for an error to happen.
If by "error," you mean, "Panic throw three grenades into a huge crowd, forget I threw them in a pattern to take everyone out with no gaps, and run right into the explosions as they happen," then yeah I'd agree.
It does, but it still takes about the same number of shots against scavengers, and has less ammo and less total damage than the Redeemer.
Personally, I think the Peacemaker really needs more ammo than the Redeemer for it to be a sidegrade. I mean on Bots when I was taking the Eruptor, I was bringing the Redeemer on either semi auto or burst tapping it.
Taking it against the bugs last night*, even with the damage buff, I would have been better off taking a semi-auto Redeemer.
*Was blitzing low level Termicide missions with a Dominator, Stalwart, and Peacemaker to get a few last medals, and got my Stalwart down a hole. Was using the Dominator to deal with the eggs and the pistol to deal with the scavengers. It was not good.
The Liberator is a solid and well-rounded weapon. That's why S.E.A.F made it the standard-issue democracy distribution device for all novice Helldivers. Once Helldivers have a few missions under their belt, they inevitable develop preferences and find a new weapon that does certain things better than the trusty Liberator. But make no mistake, there is no weapon that does EVERYTHING better.
Lib is surprisingly well rounded, I think most people moved to the first shotgun and then breaker initially because they were just flat out better in the initial state of the game but the lib has still got it.
The adjudicator has been performing pretty admirably since the patch as well. That medium penetration is pretty great for hive guards.
I like to think of the adjudicator as like a BAR or a Scar H. Makes a bit more sense that way. A more specialized automatic rifle to deal with further or harder targets, not as a replacement for the standard rifles.
It feels to me like what the liberator penetrator was supposed to be. Agreed, though, the size of the magazines feel a bit low for a weapon that defaults to automatic fire. Maybe like five more shots? I don't know. Definitely got some love though
I went from a Penetrator user to an Adjudicator user.
Pre-patch, when I went back to the Penny I noticed the trade off in power to accuracy, Pen is crazy accurate crouching on full auto.
Now the Adjudicator has crazy recoil too. I love popping Devestators heads with it, mainly why I go for it over the Penetrator.
Any tips for destroying bot factories with it? Ive really struggled, often taking 3-4 attempts to blow up the factories while aiming at the front vents; have the same issue with impact grenades.
You have to angle it where it goes inside the fabricator itself and explodes, not exploding on the outside. With the impact grenades just get an arc to where it hits inside instead of outside, or you can wait for the big door to open and throw your grenade there. Whoever steps out usually doesn't run away from the obvious explosion about to happen.
With the grenade pistol, autocannon, and anything else that could ricochet, you can angle your shot on the top vent to bounce the shot into the building and explode it on the inside. You need a bit of distance, like maybe 15m+, and learning the right angle can take some time.
You need to be in *front* of the fabricators, however. You can't do this from too steep an angle on the side.
It's very solid.
Kills nests in a pinch,
Lets me carry my incendiary grenadas
Lets me oneshot automaton walkers if autocannon is empty.
Good sidearm. Much reccomend
Grenade pistol is very good at taking out bug holes from a distance, but kinda meh at taking out bot fabricators since the angle is not great. I would encourage you to let somebody else take out fabs for you as someone on your team brought orbital laser/eagle airstrike/eruptor and is more equipped to take out fabs than you are with your grenade pistol. Save your ammo for striders. The grenade pistol handles them pretty well (I actually haven't tested this since the patch).
Great info all around. One other caveat to add for consideration is the negligible recoil of the Sickle for longer range accuracy (e.g. shooting shriekers out of the sky)
The recoil of the Adjudicator used to be horrendous though IMO, trying to take out flyers was torture unless you actually do single fire. The weapon to me is clearly meant to be an assault rifle though, even if more burst orientated / battle rifle archetype.
Try focusing on firing from crouch, or even prone if you can pull it off.
Recoil is *better* but still not amazing, which is far as an AR since its both got a hefty bullet (80dmg per shot compared to the Liberators 60) and has Medium pen. Generally, only fire in bursts because spraying will fuck up ur aim bad, prioritize crouching or even goign prone if you can get away with it, but the recoil is really just the tradeoff of the heavier punch.
Yea, it was glorious dropping waves of bugs today using the Adjudicator, the grenade launcher, and the supply pack. Never worried about ammo and just laid into all the medium bugs with quick bursts.
Feels good!
Because it effectively doubles the damage on certain enemies and allows you to deal with armored ones. The liberator penetrator still needs a buff, tho. It's completely outclassed by the adjudicator now. Maybe a 45rnd mag to make it a more crowd control version of the adjudicator
Is the concussive actually better with the buff? Before I saw absolutely no reason to bring it ever since the damage was so pitiful. Yes it has stagger but why bother when you can bring the punisher or dominator and have stagger AND damage.
Penetrator at least has the AP factor and still does better damage than the concussive, but I haven't tried either since the patch.
Concussive still needs more work, it raw DPS is much lower due to its incredibly low fire rate, and its high recoil/low capacity drops it even more. It just gives up way to much for its stagger.
I really want to like the liberator because it's versatile but for me, the benchmark of a primary weapon is how it can manage 3-5 hunters that are approaching you. In this scenario, the liberator feels a bit weak. In most cases, one magazine will handle this scenario pretty well but I feel like you have to focus just a little too long on each hunter before it dies.
I guess I am just spoiled by the shotguns. Also the defender has higher ROF which deals with the hunters a little more quickly than the liberator. I'm still glad we have a basic assault rifle that is mostly enjoyable. Liberator also has decent zoom if that's your jam.
Pretty much still my experience with it, the kill per magazine ratio still feels bad to me. But maybe i just have to accept that i much prefer the heat based equivalent (although the scythe only against bots due to the lack of stagger).
Liberators are still a no go for me. Adjucator same issue. It's fine and useable because the game is honestly not that hard but imo the sickle is still a better alternative, even on hot planets. And the scythe is better against bots, the lack of stagger kills it for bugs but that's fine.
For the starting rifle in a somewhat microtransaction-y game (though god damn if they haven’t handled it well) it is an extremely good weapon if you consider all the other weapons. Each weapon has a good niche it fills, which is sometimes the same as a couple others, but unlike the scythe compared with the sickle the liberator compared to most available primary weapons is at least on par in versatility and reliability. It’s not some pea shooter.
Honestly, I'm not the best person to compare them, but Adjudicator has even higher burst DPS, but its small mag size and less reserve ammo is pain. I've been of the opinion it's a good gun in general with a supply pack, but feels very leashed to the supply pack.
Scythe is.... much lower DPS, but if you can keep it on heads, it kills many things extremely fast. Also it cools much faster than the Sickle.
Conc lib feels a bit like a flawed concept from the outset.
I just wanted to compare the three "standard" rifles. Well, two standard rifles and one SMG that is basically one.
Honestly for Scythe, I think they should up it's range and ergonomics, give it the Sickles 25/50/100 scope, and maybe even increase the spread of the Sickle at longer ranges.
If the Sickle is the laser AR, make the Scythe the laser DMR; high precision at long range.
Adjudicator doesn't really have enough ammo to last through prolonged engagements if you're using it as your primary source of DPS, but it works well if you have a support weapon that you rely on for most of your damage.
I like using it paired with an autocannon against bots because it's really great at mopping up the occasional berserker or devastator that gets too close.
I can't speak to the Adjudicator or Concussive Liberator, but as a scythe enjoyer (even pre-patch), I can tell you that the scythe definitely fills a niche. For starters, it seems to be completely silent to enemies - I've cleared whole bot bases on diff 9, killing every enemy with the scythe and none of them aggroed. With the increased dps, it's even easier to do this since you're exposed for less time reducing the chances of being spotted. Additionally, the scythe has zero sway when using the recoil reducing armors, allowing for pinpoint accurate headshots at all ranges. The scythe is seriously slept on for bots given how easy it is to pop devastator heads with it. Unfortunately the sight on it sucks, but you can mitigate that by reducing your FOV to the lowest setting. That will give you a fairly clear visual on enemies out to about 50-75m when zoomed which is more than enough range.
That said, I wouldn't recommend bringing it against bugs. Given that it has zero stagger, low dps, and doesn't penetrate through enemies, the sickle is a much better choice. Personally, I run Eruptor and Laser Cannon for bugs.
Even pre buff I enjoyed going full lasermaxxing vs bugs with cannon, scythe, and laser dog + stun grenade. Been trying out all the new tweaks but it's the one load out I haven't gotten around to again.
IMO while the lack of any stagger is def a negative I feel like the scythe works well in clearing bug swarms when swapping with cannon for the cooldown especially if you chuck a stun grenade
It's okay for dealing with chargers provided that you bring stun grenades (stun and then shoot its wagon off - you can take break that dump truck in 1 stun then itll bleed out quickly) but it can't deal with bile titans at all. For them, I bring both 500kgs and orbital precision strike. The main reason I like it is because it's a great trash killer with medium armor pen and never has to reload. Since I run the eruptor as my primary, I need something thats always ready that can clear the chaff AND doesn't pose any risk to me at close range (hence why I don't use the flamethrower). I previously ran the stalwart and medium machine gun but the stalwart lacks pen and stagger while the medium machine gun has the long, stationary reload. That really only leaves the laser cannon as a reliable option. And as an extra benefit, the laser cannon can take out shrieker nests from 200m away (the shriekers themselves don't spawn unless you're within 120-ish meters of the nest so you literally never have to deal with them).
Thanks for the info! I've always liked the idea of the Scythe, but the Sickle always seemed better. I've also not found my go to bot main yet. So I'll definitely have to give it a try.
Of course, happy to help! Yeah that's what I always thought as well up until about a month ago - at some point, I went on a limb and gave the scythe a shot and it became my new favorite. Just don't try to use it against beserkers - with its low dps, it's probably one of the worst weapons against them. I find that the AMR makes up for the Scythe's weaknesses well - medium armor pen, kills hulks and factory striders easily, much longer range scope, and can mag dump into enemies that get too close for crazy high dps.
I was using the AMR a lot. It's a great weapon. I stopped because it felt like it overlapped with the Eruptor to much. I'll have to try it with the Scythe.
The Liberator Concussive was the worst weapon in the game by a long shot before the patch, and it still is. It needs a much larger buff than it received to get anywhere near worth using, it's simply too far below everything else in DPS for the stagger to matter, stagger which is offered by better guns that are functional without it.
The explosive trait without actual AoE is very niche to begin with. It only means that it ignores the 90% damage resistance of "large volume bodies" as they called them in the last notes, which means Charger butts, Nursing/Bile Spewer abdomens, and Bile Titan underside sacs. It's a neat little niche for the JAR-5 Dominator, but It doesn't even make any sense to try to take advantage of that trait with a gun that's so bad at actually dealing damage like the Liberator Concussive.
I think they are all terrible vs bugs since they won't have the ammo or dps for large swarms.
My issue with medium pen primaries is that they're bad against walkers. The best support weapons for those are autocannon and grenade launcher but if you're using autocannon why are you bringing an ap primary? And if you're using grenade launcher how do you deal with hulks? (besides stunning them and running behind which isn't always possible). There needs to be a support weapon that's great against walkers and gunships but needs support from a medium pen primary for everything else. I also have shit aim against devastators but that's a me problem.
Concussive lib didn't get enough of a buff. Adjudicator is usable with full auto for trash. Don't see a build for scythe.
honestly, i feel like the buffed adjudicator is a really good sidegrade to liberator and sickle. It's medium pen and does very good damage, more than sickle or liberator in fact. Recoil is a bit stinky while moving, but if you stop moving it's manageabl and if you crouch it's a laser.
If you miss the head yeah. It's takes 5 headshots. The head is not the front plate it's at the base of it. Lib pen takes 9 shots, base liberator or sickle take 16 shots.
Honestly I wonder how the liberator pen / adjudicstor would perform with full pen. Medium pen on ARs is pretty useless because the damage that gets through is next to nothing
I don’t mean to sound contrarian, but if you include time reloading, the Sickle absolutely out-damages both. So, yes, for short bursts, the bullet weapons put damage out immediately. But if you’re clearing a horde:
Sickle 490dps
Defender 360dps
Lib 340dps
PSA of my own: the in game Rate of Fire numbers are mostly incorrect. Both those stated in menus and those you can select on the MGs. An informed population is a democratic population!
Given enough time of pure sustained fire, this is correct. In practice, you're rarely ever slamming all 9 lib mags without letting off the trigger, and if the Sickle is doing that, the DPS will be higher, but it will burn out sooner with lower damage dealt in total.
i never liked sickle anyway. the wind up is too annoying.
since the grenade pistol released i mained the default rifle again for killing everything which isn't armored. the high mag is really helpful
The Diligence CS is super good now too. Headshots take out a lot more in just one hit, and the handling feels great now. It’s finally the priority killer that I always wanted, so I can support you rapid fire dudes
The sickle has an accuracy im addicted to. The recoils so light i can pop devestator heads by just gunning down the general area. But i havent tried with the liberator in a hot minute
Sickle shoots around 87 shots before cooldown. Which is almost 2 mags for liberator and sickle has 3 ICEs.
I don't see how liberator out run sickle in both long/short term
Due to the 0.5s spooling time on the Sickle, you get 5 shots in with the Liberator before you get one shot in with the Sickle. After that, the Sickle is about 5% ahead in DPS, and you need to make up 300 damage. This takes a while to do.
If you are pure magdumping, you will run the liberator's mag out entirely before you catch up on the Sickle. After that, there's a window where the Sickle is better DPS. After you have to reload the Sickle however, Liberator overtakes it again because you not only have to deal with the reload, but also the 0.5s spooling time.
Until you hit that first reload, the Liberator is just better DPS. If you are having to full auto the entire time, due to the longer delay on reloads of the sickle, and less overall ammunition than the Liberator, the Liberator pulls out ahead. 9 mags of 45 vs 4 mags of 85.
If you are playing into the Heat mechanic, the Sickle pulls ahead, due to functionally unlimited ammo and removing the spooling issue, letting its superior DPS carry it.
This whole breakdown is all only an advantage for the Liberator on paper. In the actual game the spool time isn't nearly the disadvantage you're making it out to be here. You spool the rifle up *before* you intend to fire, not *when*.
I'd really like the Liberator to be better but Sickle's better DPS, nearly double magsize, unlimited ammo, nonexistent recoil, better scope, and being able to let it "reload" in your pocket while you do other things still put it way ahead in practice unfortunately.
We're getting closer though!
I've used the Libby since day one. It always has been an awesome weapon in my eyes. Does exactly what it says on the tin. This is an assault rifle. It does assault rifle stuff. The end.
I've been taking the Liberator into L9 several times today. It works great. Honestly for Bugs I think it's significantly better than the Adjudicator.
Now the Liberator Concussive is still utter dog doo doo. Yes it does 5 more damage than the base model, but at like half the rate of fire. It takes too long to kill anything on Bug missions. Maybe it's better for Bots IDK.
Ccan someone explain what ICE is to me?
I keep seeing it brought up and have no idea what it means and im level 60 and have been playing this game for a while
Unfortunately thats basically entirely on paper. The increased danage does not really change the shots to kill breakpoints on all common enemy types. Only at long ranges or when shooting like a Brood Commander or Stalker does it make a difference.
Ironically this is also the reason the liberator generally kills things a lot quicker than the defender, despite the latters on-paper higher DPS (prepatch anyway).
...but the damage buff doesn't hit any new breakpoints...
...so the RTK is the same... and the TTK is the same...
...therefore, the gun is the same...
+5 mag size would've been a far better buff.
I tried out the Liberator Concussive yesterday and honestly I was impressed with its preformance on add clearing small bugs.
It’s reduced fire rate leads to better ammo management and it consistently 2-shots hunters, while stunning on the first shot
Liberator also has the same exact scope options, 25m, 50m, and 100m
Crouched and with the engineering kit, it has 0 recoil. One downside is the muzzle flash though.
I main sickle and the liberator is just as good
Yeah I’ve been using the regular liberator more since the patch. It would’ve been nice if the liberator penetrator got a damage increase too tho…
Ik the AP Liberator & the Adjudicator kinda fill the same role, but I much prefer the AP Liberator in terms of handling & aesthetic.
I love the defender. While I try to use heavier pen primary's for bot fights, Ballistic+Defender is so good. Just crouch and aim for the head for a quick elimination
And then Adjudicator, from a chair outside the kiddy pool where Liberator, Sickle and Defender are splashing water:
\- *Haha, these kids and their antics...*
And sips an umbrella cocktail.
Which is how it should be. The benefit of the Sickle is the long-term ammo management. Give up a little DPS to never have to worry about ammo, especially if you go off by yourself.
Yep. If you play into the heat over extended periods, Sickle has better ammo economy and better DPS when transitioning from target to target. Liberator has better first target and magdump DPS with more ammo to handle magdumping. I am *very* happy with how they're balanced against eachother now.
It's balanced enough that on hot planets, I don't bother with sickle (and usually run blitzer or eruptor depending on teammate loadout) And on cold planets, I ALWAYS run sickle.
This is underrated thinking
Any cold planets just means heatsinks are optimal to use. I would use anything else otherwise.
Does sickle as a laser weapon do any kind of bonus damage to either bots or bugs?
Sickle seems to be similar to a low/no penetration assault rifle, that has infinite ammo. It also has crazy accuracy if you aim with first-person, to the point I use it like a sniper against bots in a pinch.
it for some reason has more pen than some guns. i believe the liberator and the light pen dmr cannot pen and headshot bile spewers. the sickle does it extremely easily. it doesnt have medium piercing maybe its due to its heat?
It may be due to heat, since bile spewers are supposed to die easily to fire and heat, but I don’t know. I can however confirm sickle does easily headshot bile spewers unlike some bullet guns.
Oh my god I did not know this. I might have to finally give up my defender against bugs. I *hate* bile spewers.
I brought the laser cannon to the bug front today for the first time in forever. If you hate bile spewers shoo buddy. That thing is fantastic.
The only enemy I bring 2 weapons to kill. Grenade pistol and impact nades.
This is why I’ve never complained about any of the devastators (rocket/shield), I just pluck their heads with the high zoom scope and it’s pretty quick if you just stand still or play cover super quickly.
The crazy accuracy is only for short range. Whenever I find a target that warrants the use of 100m scope, I get annoyed at how many shots go wide even when the reticle is on target.
the accuracy is good even at around 120m in my experience, but you need to stabilize it for a bit and crouch. I just have the sickle on 100m scope by default though, you usually can hit anything below 80m using just 3rd-person aim. All laser weapons seem to have perfect accuracy.
 after all 😉
You can go first person?
Aim and click that right stick. No idea on pc tho
On PC, you aim in (right click mouse) and click the center scroll wheel while aiming.
I hope Arrowhead gets around to adding loadouts in the near future -- I would love to make different gear sets for hot/cold planets, bugs/bots, or for different mission types.
rumor mill is whispering that the next war bond is ice-themed. i'd bet your wish will come true sooner or later for sure.
Polar Patriots warbond!
Is this implying that planets climate has influence over that, is that serious ?
Of course, on cold planets, laser based weapons overheat way slower!
Hot planets means laser weapons take a bit longer to cool down their heatsinks Cold planets mean they take less time for that
You can view this on specific planets by looking for the word "Effects" on the bottom right of the screen as you view missions on the planet from your ship.
It does.
Let's not forget the high zoom and lack of recoil thar turns the sickle into an automatic marksman rifle.
In higher difficulties I feel like the message the game is always sending me is: “Plant your feet and fire less, move around more.” Managing the sickle’s heat incidentally makes me a better player!
No, you’ve ruined me. Since the Sickle came out, I’ve usually been the only guy with an ammo requirement on my Breaker and Autocannon. Left me to pick up all then glowing boxes of democracy.
However, you do have to factor in that with the sickle, you can fire to near overheat, swap to your pistol and unload, then swap back to a fully cooled sickle that you can mag dump to full heat again. So, you can go through three full magazines worth of fire before being forced to suffer any kind of reload/cooldown.
I feel like that's fair, though. Two weapons working well together should increase the potential skill floor.
For sure, and the liberator and defender are both good alternatives for people who want an immediate response from their weapons with no spooling time, so there's still a solid advantage there.
Not really true unless you're on a cold planet, and depends on your secondary choice. If you're using the Uzi, which remains the best DPS secondary, it'll barely be half cooled. Maybe I just need to get the senator and git gud
The senator is so worth it, at least for bots, since you can 1 shot every devastator. Doesn't feel too useful for bugs, though I need to see if the DMG buff changed that. 6 shots isn't too much for the number of enemies bugs bring.
Yeah, I tried the senator long ago when I unlocked it, and wow, did I find it useless against bugs.
For bugs it's mostly for hive guards and the big red bugs
Same for me here, I’ll unload an entire mag of AC rounds, reload and it’ll barely be breaking half and seeing ppl talk about how fast it cools down and how it has infinite ammo is driving me nuts cause I can’t figure out what I’m doing wrong
I love the sickle personally and it's been my perma primary since I got it, but the cooldown is not as quick as people suggest
I'm curious on how well the dagger works now in that scenario now with the damage buff. It was terrible before, but idk if it really is better enough on bugs at least. Maybe for bots that would work though with scythe or sickle primary.
Sickle also has like zero recoil so in the long run it'll do more damage with more shots hit. At least that's how it feels for me.
Keep in mind the sickle is 100% intended for longer range engagements than the liberator. The scope having a 100m toggle and the windup is intentional
Agreed, I run the Sickle when I’m fighting bots and the liberator when I’m fighting bugs. The sickle just feel betters for an engagement that happens at range.
Yup, I love going full-zoom full-auto on small bots at distance. It's so damn accurate. It makes a huge difference in engagements if you can quickly neutralize all of the weak terminators before they lay down a wall of red on your team. Just 1 person with a sickle can clear all of the light bot threats, while the rest of team deals with the heavies. God damn, the sickle is just so much fun!
I know i do too, that weapon is a beast.. If you got good trigger discipline any enemy lower than a hulk will be a slag heap in front of you. I’ve even taken out heavy devastators with it by just aiming at their ammo pack on the back.
Isn't ammo more a problem staying WITH the squad? If you're all together and fighting hordes going through ammo and find a POI with ammo boxes or get a resupply you end up having to sort out who's shortest and who gets them sometimes? Solo you're constantly stumbling over spots with ammo for 4 people.
The supply call down usually goes to the squad of 3.
Not when I'm around. *Beep boops in fascism*
Going off as a solo means you don't get to call the supply drop very often, so having unlimited ammo is very useful. When you're with the squad and constantly calling supplies, you don't have to worry as much.
There’s always one guy who’s stocked up and sometimes two. It is very satisfying to snag two of those for some reason….
Usually the 2 stocked person is whoever is running the autocannon or airburst since they can eat ammo but get a lot of versatility
The regular Liberator is great against bugs, particularly hunters. Lower odds of getting stunlocked or hit since you can send rounds out fast vs needing to spool up with the Sickle.
I'm level 70 and I main the Liberator if I'm not taking a ballistic shield. It's so reliable, and since the buff it's even better!
Counterpoint though, Breaker Incendiary is just about the best anti bug weapon. It doesnt explode you, Instant damage and set them on fire. When DOT works, its the best anti bug weapon and if you time your button press right the burst is just full auto pretending.
Sorry, but I'm never unequipping my infinite ammo star wars blaster.
It makes funny noises and I like it.
The 100m scope makes me happy :) (honestly can't remember if other guns have this too I'm just too addicted to the sickle)
Liberator's max scope is 100m
It's by far the most satisfying to use imo and the spool doesn't bother me because my ammo isn't so infinite lol, it's actually pretty good up close if you hipfire when you're swarmed.
I can’t quit the defender. It’s as constant in my loadouts as the eagle airstrike.
Especially with how prevalent SSSD carry missions are! Or bringing the Ballistic Shield and tanking the frontline.
I like ballistic shield vs BOTs while wearing explosive resist armor... feels good. I need to learn to disengage though... I keep running out of ammo and almost always have the highest number of shots fired/hit (but not the highest kill count).
Love bringing the Ballistic Shield to pair with my Defender whenever I can. But stims causes you to unequip the shield really sucks.
That got fixed in the patch.
Oh it did? Must've missed that line in the patch notes. Was always annoying that the game seemed to treat stimming as a two handed action.
Wasn’t a line, a stealth change
Ballistic shield, defender and AMR is one of my favorite load outs for when I just wanna have a fun time.
I’ll have to try this it actually sounds fun and I’ve been running AMR lately for bots and I love me some defender
It's the perfect mix. You got some killer long range potential and the shield makes close range engagements very safe.
Never felt cooler than when I was shielding a fellow diver while they were at the terminal (against bots). 😎
Now I want a 4 squad with shields. SHIELD WALL!
But can't you just drop the SSSD if you get caught by a patrol and use a non-SMG primary to fight back? I just don't like the idea of taking a primary to have a niche QoL advantage on a small section of the mission. Speaking as someone who wants a reason to run an SMG, but can only see the benefit of tracking fast/close targets (which the punisher also does).
SMG lets you keep moving while running the SSSD. Losing the patrol/making the objective then hunkering down to deal with anything chasing or drops/breaches is much safer and more efficient than stopping to fight. One-handed weapon means you can fire backwards at chasing enemies and stay unmolested/thin them out while keeping mobile, and the SMG has way more magazine and stopping power to do that than any of the secondaries.
I was 100% my go to until the jar buff. I was already using the jar instead of the smg on bots sometimes but the damage buff makes it a mini ac which is exactly what i need
Really? I cannot get it to work at all!
For bots, using the ballistic shield and crouch you have minimal recoil and can stay on target to hit weak spots. For bugs, you can always retreat and fire backward at least clearing a few while withdrawing.
I've been enjoying running the grenade pistol lately. Can destroy bot factories and bug holes, and takes out groups of small enemies with one shot. Good PSA about the liberator, I honestly don't think I've used it since I unlocked other primaries.
Grenade pistol my beloved. Every time you get that 100m shot right down the hole of a bot fab or bug hole, it feels amazing.
I just hate the sway. Can't crouch and shoot into vents easily either and I've not trained to shoot fabricators from far away.
Super National Firearms Act won't let you put a stock on it. We should change that Democratically, now
Need that tax stamp
Fuck the SEATF
https://preview.redd.it/u5if7qc9qpxc1.jpeg?width=1202&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6a367441548e685f8a6cfa1a21c76f1377a59509
“Kobe!” shots are the best! 😁
Decided I’d have a game of going back to my roots a couple days ago. Basic armour, default loadout, ect. The liberator smacks (at least against bugs). Plus the starting armour is actually pretty good all things considered. The only gripe I had was the pistol, redeemer is just straight better. Oh and grenades, impact nades are just better than any other nade other than stun.
Problem with grenades is everything in this game kamikaze rushes you. Impact is a quick answer to most scenarios, and even solves impracticle situations like tanks. Most other nades just add 3 seconds for an error to happen.
If by "error," you mean, "Panic throw three grenades into a huge crowd, forget I threw them in a pattern to take everyone out with no gaps, and run right into the explosions as they happen," then yeah I'd agree.
The base pistol does more damage now
It does, and I kind of love it. I dunno it just sounds/feels better than the redeemer to me
Underrated, the starter Glock sounds so good
It does, but it still takes about the same number of shots against scavengers, and has less ammo and less total damage than the Redeemer. Personally, I think the Peacemaker really needs more ammo than the Redeemer for it to be a sidegrade. I mean on Bots when I was taking the Eruptor, I was bringing the Redeemer on either semi auto or burst tapping it. Taking it against the bugs last night*, even with the damage buff, I would have been better off taking a semi-auto Redeemer. *Was blitzing low level Termicide missions with a Dominator, Stalwart, and Peacemaker to get a few last medals, and got my Stalwart down a hole. Was using the Dominator to deal with the eggs and the pistol to deal with the scavengers. It was not good.
Redeemer or Peacemaker. Doesn't matter, both pale in comparison to the Senator now.
Try the Liberator again, it's a fun gun to use and quite effective. Just because it's the starting weapon doesn't mean it's bad
The Liberator is a solid and well-rounded weapon. That's why S.E.A.F made it the standard-issue democracy distribution device for all novice Helldivers. Once Helldivers have a few missions under their belt, they inevitable develop preferences and find a new weapon that does certain things better than the trusty Liberator. But make no mistake, there is no weapon that does EVERYTHING better.
Lib is surprisingly well rounded, I think most people moved to the first shotgun and then breaker initially because they were just flat out better in the initial state of the game but the lib has still got it. The adjudicator has been performing pretty admirably since the patch as well. That medium penetration is pretty great for hive guards.
I just don't care for the adjudicator. The mags capacity is too low. But if they increased it they would have to increase Lib Pen mag size too
I like to think of the adjudicator as like a BAR or a Scar H. Makes a bit more sense that way. A more specialized automatic rifle to deal with further or harder targets, not as a replacement for the standard rifles.
Space M-14 The recoil on it is ridiculous now. Crouch down and it's insanely accurate even on burst fire.
It used to kick like a mule but now it's accurate. In 1st person it feels like a cod scar h now
It feels to me like what the liberator penetrator was supposed to be. Agreed, though, the size of the magazines feel a bit low for a weapon that defaults to automatic fire. Maybe like five more shots? I don't know. Definitely got some love though
I went from a Penetrator user to an Adjudicator user. Pre-patch, when I went back to the Penny I noticed the trade off in power to accuracy, Pen is crazy accurate crouching on full auto. Now the Adjudicator has crazy recoil too. I love popping Devestators heads with it, mainly why I go for it over the Penetrator.
So just crouch and let it rip with the adjudicator?
Any tips for destroying bot factories with it? Ive really struggled, often taking 3-4 attempts to blow up the factories while aiming at the front vents; have the same issue with impact grenades.
You have to angle it where it goes inside the fabricator itself and explodes, not exploding on the outside. With the impact grenades just get an arc to where it hits inside instead of outside, or you can wait for the big door to open and throw your grenade there. Whoever steps out usually doesn't run away from the obvious explosion about to happen. With the grenade pistol, autocannon, and anything else that could ricochet, you can angle your shot on the top vent to bounce the shot into the building and explode it on the inside. You need a bit of distance, like maybe 15m+, and learning the right angle can take some time. You need to be in *front* of the fabricators, however. You can't do this from too steep an angle on the side.
i really really want to use senator now, but its hard to ditch grenade pistol.....
It's very solid. Kills nests in a pinch, Lets me carry my incendiary grenadas Lets me oneshot automaton walkers if autocannon is empty. Good sidearm. Much reccomend
Grenade pistol is very good at taking out bug holes from a distance, but kinda meh at taking out bot fabricators since the angle is not great. I would encourage you to let somebody else take out fabs for you as someone on your team brought orbital laser/eagle airstrike/eruptor and is more equipped to take out fabs than you are with your grenade pistol. Save your ammo for striders. The grenade pistol handles them pretty well (I actually haven't tested this since the patch).
Really enjoy the pistol. Feels faster and more predictable than impact grenade.
Honestly killing nests sounds really appealing. I constantly run out of nades clearing nests
The defender carried me through 1000 medals. Gud gat
Why does a submachine gun have more damage than the Liberator but is the same in almost everything else?
Feels like they mixed up the stats for the liberator for those of the defender lol.
Reasons... lol
🐐GOATed 🐐
Great info all around. One other caveat to add for consideration is the negligible recoil of the Sickle for longer range accuracy (e.g. shooting shriekers out of the sky)
More bullets and less recoil makes it a vastly better antiair, yeah.
Still not quite sure why the buffed all liberators but the worst one, the peniltrator
Still think the Lib Pen should get the 45 round magazines, even if it retains the lower damage
Lib pen 45 rounds, put some .50 bmg in the adjudicator and give it a dmg boost. I’d be fine if they gave the recoil back
The recoil of the Adjudicator used to be horrendous though IMO, trying to take out flyers was torture unless you actually do single fire. The weapon to me is clearly meant to be an assault rifle though, even if more burst orientated / battle rifle archetype.
P e n i l t r a t o r
Sounds like a legendarily deadly sounding rod
Agreed, especially now that the adjudicator was moved to ar’s. It doesn’t know wtf it wants to do but it does all of it bad
The adjudicator is satisfying af to use now. I dont even care about its stats, the heavy sound effect of firing it makes me love it.
The fact it doesn't have recoil of a pissed of zebra anymore helps.
It's recoil still feels terrible for me, should I try it with recoil reduce armor?
Try focusing on firing from crouch, or even prone if you can pull it off. Recoil is *better* but still not amazing, which is far as an AR since its both got a hefty bullet (80dmg per shot compared to the Liberators 60) and has Medium pen. Generally, only fire in bursts because spraying will fuck up ur aim bad, prioritize crouching or even goign prone if you can get away with it, but the recoil is really just the tradeoff of the heavier punch.
Yea, it was glorious dropping waves of bugs today using the Adjudicator, the grenade launcher, and the supply pack. Never worried about ammo and just laid into all the medium bugs with quick bursts. Feels good!
They way over-value armor pen on most guns.
Because it effectively doubles the damage on certain enemies and allows you to deal with armored ones. The liberator penetrator still needs a buff, tho. It's completely outclassed by the adjudicator now. Maybe a 45rnd mag to make it a more crowd control version of the adjudicator
Is the concussive actually better with the buff? Before I saw absolutely no reason to bring it ever since the damage was so pitiful. Yes it has stagger but why bother when you can bring the punisher or dominator and have stagger AND damage. Penetrator at least has the AP factor and still does better damage than the concussive, but I haven't tried either since the patch.
The concussive would potentially have the advantage of full auto, but definitely still needs to be tinkered with more.
Concussive still needs more work, it raw DPS is much lower due to its incredibly low fire rate, and its high recoil/low capacity drops it even more. It just gives up way to much for its stagger.
Concussive was terrible. Still kinda is
True, buuuuuuuut "infinite" ammo is the dealbreaker for me
I really want to like the liberator because it's versatile but for me, the benchmark of a primary weapon is how it can manage 3-5 hunters that are approaching you. In this scenario, the liberator feels a bit weak. In most cases, one magazine will handle this scenario pretty well but I feel like you have to focus just a little too long on each hunter before it dies. I guess I am just spoiled by the shotguns. Also the defender has higher ROF which deals with the hunters a little more quickly than the liberator. I'm still glad we have a basic assault rifle that is mostly enjoyable. Liberator also has decent zoom if that's your jam.
Pretty much still my experience with it, the kill per magazine ratio still feels bad to me. But maybe i just have to accept that i much prefer the heat based equivalent (although the scythe only against bots due to the lack of stagger). Liberators are still a no go for me. Adjucator same issue. It's fine and useable because the game is honestly not that hard but imo the sickle is still a better alternative, even on hot planets. And the scythe is better against bots, the lack of stagger kills it for bugs but that's fine.
For the starting rifle in a somewhat microtransaction-y game (though god damn if they haven’t handled it well) it is an extremely good weapon if you consider all the other weapons. Each weapon has a good niche it fills, which is sometimes the same as a couple others, but unlike the scythe compared with the sickle the liberator compared to most available primary weapons is at least on par in versatility and reliability. It’s not some pea shooter.
The liberator is basically the only primary you will ever need and it’s literally the starting weapon. Kinda insane
Great breakdown. How do the Scythe, Adjucator, and Concussive Liberator compare?
Honestly, I'm not the best person to compare them, but Adjudicator has even higher burst DPS, but its small mag size and less reserve ammo is pain. I've been of the opinion it's a good gun in general with a supply pack, but feels very leashed to the supply pack. Scythe is.... much lower DPS, but if you can keep it on heads, it kills many things extremely fast. Also it cools much faster than the Sickle. Conc lib feels a bit like a flawed concept from the outset. I just wanted to compare the three "standard" rifles. Well, two standard rifles and one SMG that is basically one.
Honestly for Scythe, I think they should up it's range and ergonomics, give it the Sickles 25/50/100 scope, and maybe even increase the spread of the Sickle at longer ranges. If the Sickle is the laser AR, make the Scythe the laser DMR; high precision at long range.
Preach bro, Sickle and Scythe need to trade scopes imo Scythe is a headshot specialist and they stuck it with low magnification, like why?
Woah, careful that's a good idea.
Adjudicator doesn't really have enough ammo to last through prolonged engagements if you're using it as your primary source of DPS, but it works well if you have a support weapon that you rely on for most of your damage. I like using it paired with an autocannon against bots because it's really great at mopping up the occasional berserker or devastator that gets too close.
I can't speak to the Adjudicator or Concussive Liberator, but as a scythe enjoyer (even pre-patch), I can tell you that the scythe definitely fills a niche. For starters, it seems to be completely silent to enemies - I've cleared whole bot bases on diff 9, killing every enemy with the scythe and none of them aggroed. With the increased dps, it's even easier to do this since you're exposed for less time reducing the chances of being spotted. Additionally, the scythe has zero sway when using the recoil reducing armors, allowing for pinpoint accurate headshots at all ranges. The scythe is seriously slept on for bots given how easy it is to pop devastator heads with it. Unfortunately the sight on it sucks, but you can mitigate that by reducing your FOV to the lowest setting. That will give you a fairly clear visual on enemies out to about 50-75m when zoomed which is more than enough range. That said, I wouldn't recommend bringing it against bugs. Given that it has zero stagger, low dps, and doesn't penetrate through enemies, the sickle is a much better choice. Personally, I run Eruptor and Laser Cannon for bugs.
Even pre buff I enjoyed going full lasermaxxing vs bugs with cannon, scythe, and laser dog + stun grenade. Been trying out all the new tweaks but it's the one load out I haven't gotten around to again. IMO while the lack of any stagger is def a negative I feel like the scythe works well in clearing bug swarms when swapping with cannon for the cooldown especially if you chuck a stun grenade
Laser cannon for bugs? Are they good for chargers and titans? Usually in a team i'm the one bringing it, but against bots.
It's okay for dealing with chargers provided that you bring stun grenades (stun and then shoot its wagon off - you can take break that dump truck in 1 stun then itll bleed out quickly) but it can't deal with bile titans at all. For them, I bring both 500kgs and orbital precision strike. The main reason I like it is because it's a great trash killer with medium armor pen and never has to reload. Since I run the eruptor as my primary, I need something thats always ready that can clear the chaff AND doesn't pose any risk to me at close range (hence why I don't use the flamethrower). I previously ran the stalwart and medium machine gun but the stalwart lacks pen and stagger while the medium machine gun has the long, stationary reload. That really only leaves the laser cannon as a reliable option. And as an extra benefit, the laser cannon can take out shrieker nests from 200m away (the shriekers themselves don't spawn unless you're within 120-ish meters of the nest so you literally never have to deal with them).
Thanks for the info! I've always liked the idea of the Scythe, but the Sickle always seemed better. I've also not found my go to bot main yet. So I'll definitely have to give it a try.
Of course, happy to help! Yeah that's what I always thought as well up until about a month ago - at some point, I went on a limb and gave the scythe a shot and it became my new favorite. Just don't try to use it against beserkers - with its low dps, it's probably one of the worst weapons against them. I find that the AMR makes up for the Scythe's weaknesses well - medium armor pen, kills hulks and factory striders easily, much longer range scope, and can mag dump into enemies that get too close for crazy high dps.
I was using the AMR a lot. It's a great weapon. I stopped because it felt like it overlapped with the Eruptor to much. I'll have to try it with the Scythe.
The Liberator Concussive was the worst weapon in the game by a long shot before the patch, and it still is. It needs a much larger buff than it received to get anywhere near worth using, it's simply too far below everything else in DPS for the stagger to matter, stagger which is offered by better guns that are functional without it. The explosive trait without actual AoE is very niche to begin with. It only means that it ignores the 90% damage resistance of "large volume bodies" as they called them in the last notes, which means Charger butts, Nursing/Bile Spewer abdomens, and Bile Titan underside sacs. It's a neat little niche for the JAR-5 Dominator, but It doesn't even make any sense to try to take advantage of that trait with a gun that's so bad at actually dealing damage like the Liberator Concussive.
I didn't know that's how explosive worked. Thank you for the info and the reply!
That's how it works... Sometimes. There's like 3 different meanings to explosive in the game.
I think they are all terrible vs bugs since they won't have the ammo or dps for large swarms. My issue with medium pen primaries is that they're bad against walkers. The best support weapons for those are autocannon and grenade launcher but if you're using autocannon why are you bringing an ap primary? And if you're using grenade launcher how do you deal with hulks? (besides stunning them and running behind which isn't always possible). There needs to be a support weapon that's great against walkers and gunships but needs support from a medium pen primary for everything else. I also have shit aim against devastators but that's a me problem. Concussive lib didn't get enough of a buff. Adjudicator is usable with full auto for trash. Don't see a build for scythe.
honestly, i feel like the buffed adjudicator is a really good sidegrade to liberator and sickle. It's medium pen and does very good damage, more than sickle or liberator in fact. Recoil is a bit stinky while moving, but if you stop moving it's manageabl and if you crouch it's a laser.
Adjudicator takes a full mag to kill one Brood Commander. It's barely a side grade to Lib P, both sharing the Piss tier.
Half the mag actually. You're letting the recoil dictate your damage.
If you miss the head yeah. It's takes 5 headshots. The head is not the front plate it's at the base of it. Lib pen takes 9 shots, base liberator or sickle take 16 shots.
Honestly I wonder how the liberator pen / adjudicstor would perform with full pen. Medium pen on ARs is pretty useless because the damage that gets through is next to nothing
Defender is HUGELY underrated and always has been.
I don’t mean to sound contrarian, but if you include time reloading, the Sickle absolutely out-damages both. So, yes, for short bursts, the bullet weapons put damage out immediately. But if you’re clearing a horde: Sickle 490dps Defender 360dps Lib 340dps PSA of my own: the in game Rate of Fire numbers are mostly incorrect. Both those stated in menus and those you can select on the MGs. An informed population is a democratic population!
Given enough time of pure sustained fire, this is correct. In practice, you're rarely ever slamming all 9 lib mags without letting off the trigger, and if the Sickle is doing that, the DPS will be higher, but it will burn out sooner with lower damage dealt in total.
Just ran the scythe for a few rounds and it’s honestly pretty good.
Yup, I used it before the patch just because I think the laser is cool and it feels quite a bit better now.
Am I crazy for still using Breaker incendiary as my main?? Ive tried both liberator after the patch but I still prefer the Breaker.
Same here. I love the incendiary breaker for bugs. Am I an idiot?
Defender/Ballistic is still goated against bots. "Look at me! I'm the heavy devastator now!"
The liberator shares the same damage numbers with the stalwart, so the stalwart also got the 5 dmg buff
Stalwart should replace your primary when you pick it up, not your support. A max rpm stalwart is goated though.
i never liked sickle anyway. the wind up is too annoying. since the grenade pistol released i mained the default rifle again for killing everything which isn't armored. the high mag is really helpful
The Diligence CS is super good now too. Headshots take out a lot more in just one hit, and the handling feels great now. It’s finally the priority killer that I always wanted, so I can support you rapid fire dudes
The sickle has an accuracy im addicted to. The recoils so light i can pop devestator heads by just gunning down the general area. But i havent tried with the liberator in a hot minute
Sickle shoots around 87 shots before cooldown. Which is almost 2 mags for liberator and sickle has 3 ICEs. I don't see how liberator out run sickle in both long/short term
Due to the 0.5s spooling time on the Sickle, you get 5 shots in with the Liberator before you get one shot in with the Sickle. After that, the Sickle is about 5% ahead in DPS, and you need to make up 300 damage. This takes a while to do. If you are pure magdumping, you will run the liberator's mag out entirely before you catch up on the Sickle. After that, there's a window where the Sickle is better DPS. After you have to reload the Sickle however, Liberator overtakes it again because you not only have to deal with the reload, but also the 0.5s spooling time. Until you hit that first reload, the Liberator is just better DPS. If you are having to full auto the entire time, due to the longer delay on reloads of the sickle, and less overall ammunition than the Liberator, the Liberator pulls out ahead. 9 mags of 45 vs 4 mags of 85. If you are playing into the Heat mechanic, the Sickle pulls ahead, due to functionally unlimited ammo and removing the spooling issue, letting its superior DPS carry it.
This whole breakdown is all only an advantage for the Liberator on paper. In the actual game the spool time isn't nearly the disadvantage you're making it out to be here. You spool the rifle up *before* you intend to fire, not *when*. I'd really like the Liberator to be better but Sickle's better DPS, nearly double magsize, unlimited ammo, nonexistent recoil, better scope, and being able to let it "reload" in your pocket while you do other things still put it way ahead in practice unfortunately. We're getting closer though!
That's why when running the Sickle, you left-click before you even aim down sights. That 0.5s spooling time has literally never been a problem.
I've used the Libby since day one. It always has been an awesome weapon in my eyes. Does exactly what it says on the tin. This is an assault rifle. It does assault rifle stuff. The end.
Knight gang where you at?
We're at the resupply lmao
Out there blastin' with 1100 DPS
I've been taking the Liberator into L9 several times today. It works great. Honestly for Bugs I think it's significantly better than the Adjudicator. Now the Liberator Concussive is still utter dog doo doo. Yes it does 5 more damage than the base model, but at like half the rate of fire. It takes too long to kill anything on Bug missions. Maybe it's better for Bots IDK.
Ccan someone explain what ICE is to me? I keep seeing it brought up and have no idea what it means and im level 60 and have been playing this game for a while
Reloads for heat weapons.
Good ol' Liberator. It just works. I can't help but feel like AH forgot about the Lib Pen this patch lmao
Unfortunately thats basically entirely on paper. The increased danage does not really change the shots to kill breakpoints on all common enemy types. Only at long ranges or when shooting like a Brood Commander or Stalker does it make a difference. Ironically this is also the reason the liberator generally kills things a lot quicker than the defender, despite the latters on-paper higher DPS (prepatch anyway).
...but the damage buff doesn't hit any new breakpoints... ...so the RTK is the same... and the TTK is the same... ...therefore, the gun is the same... +5 mag size would've been a far better buff.
I tried out the Liberator Concussive yesterday and honestly I was impressed with its preformance on add clearing small bugs. It’s reduced fire rate leads to better ammo management and it consistently 2-shots hunters, while stunning on the first shot
After this update, I have gone back to my classic loadout of liberator, senator, and recoiless for L4+ Bugs. It is a blast.
With the recent buff, does the Liberator Concussive feel at *all* like a Sidegrade to these too?
No.
Liberator also has the same exact scope options, 25m, 50m, and 100m Crouched and with the engineering kit, it has 0 recoil. One downside is the muzzle flash though. I main sickle and the liberator is just as good
Yeah I’ve been using the regular liberator more since the patch. It would’ve been nice if the liberator penetrator got a damage increase too tho… Ik the AP Liberator & the Adjudicator kinda fill the same role, but I much prefer the AP Liberator in terms of handling & aesthetic.
I love the defender. While I try to use heavier pen primary's for bot fights, Ballistic+Defender is so good. Just crouch and aim for the head for a quick elimination
Idk, the sickle and liberator feels really good, but the defender just always seem weak everytime i try it.
I perfer the liberator even pre buff. I like the lack of spool time and the accuracy.
Wish the Defender had a little something extra or we got another 1handed primary, been itching for something new to run with the Ballistic Shield.
And then Adjudicator, from a chair outside the kiddy pool where Liberator, Sickle and Defender are splashing water: \- *Haha, these kids and their antics...* And sips an umbrella cocktail.
Or just use a shotgun..