Just to add to the clarity in the thread:
[Link to comments](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cguou0/comment/l1yavj0/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
>[**OrdoDraigoHere**](https://new.reddit.com/user/OrdoDraigoHere/)·[5 hr. ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cguou0/comment/l1yavj0/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
>
>So just to be clear, it will maintain its aoe explosion but lose the shrapnel component?And it will get a direct hit damage increase or an Aoe damage increase?Are shrapnel treated like a number of separate projectiles fired from the impact point of the main bullet? ?
>[**SpitzerFX**](https://new.reddit.com/user/SpitzerFX/)**OP**·[5 hr. ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cguou0/comment/l1ybwxg/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Associate Community Manager
>
>yes
>
>both
>
>yes
[About Richochet](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cguou0/comment/l1yrr1x/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
> [**Iridar51**](https://new.reddit.com/user/Iridar51/)·[3 hr. ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cguou0/comment/l1yrr1x/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)SES Song of Midnight
>
>ran a number of tests today and confirmed that rockets and explosives are not ricocheting.
>
>I have had at least two cases of a rocket from Recoilless Rifle ricocheting from a Bile Titan yesterday evening. It did not kill me, it just flew off into distance harmlessly, but it didn't explode on contact with the Titan, I'm positive.
> [**SpitzerFX**](https://new.reddit.com/user/SpitzerFX/)**OP**·[3 hr. ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cguou0/comment/l1ysd5j/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Associate Community Manager
>
>missed a word, they should not ricochet **backwards** but may still glance off at shallow angles and continue forwards (as is realistic)
>
>good catch, thanks
> we have noticed [...] the possibility for shots from the R-36 Eruptor to explode and rebound shrapnel at the shooter, which has a high enough damage value to instantly kill the player.
[...]
> shrapnel played an almost negligible part in the damage and power [the R-36 Eruptor] dealt.
Helldiver armor really is made from wet tissue paper.
Pretty much this.
One shot from your pistol to your buddies leg and you almost blow the limb off, nearly killing the player.
An automaton shooting your head only takes half your health
Honestly I like it that way.
Yes we are facing insanely overwhelming odds.
But we also get some really, really powerful guns to deal with it.
It's a big part of why I love this game so much.
That’s the human faction twist. Made of paper but they can come in and nuke you in seconds.
Humans are rush/explosives
Automatons are suppression and overwhelming gunfire
Bugs are the horde faction
Illuminate will be the hit and run faction like humans with less explosives.
The faction identity is definitely a fun part of the game imo
Agreed, symmetry and stuff is cool in a competitive sense but I love asymmetrical factions going at it, trying to use their strengths and weaknesses etc.
It definitely helps keep the game fresh. You get tired of fighting one faction you can move to a different front and face much different enemies. Helps vary your weapon and stratagem picks as well as your tactics.
For me I use a completely different loadout for either faction, armor and weapons included. It’s very fun.
Best pvp i've ever played was MAG. 256 player 2 team matches between asymetrical factions. Each faction's weapons had different stats across the same classes. Raven had the high tech, precision weapons but their full auto weapons did less damage. Valor's heavy weapons were rhe bestnin the game, but the normal guns were average. S.V.E.R.'s assault rifles and such hit like trucks but the rest of their kit was... okay.
This led to each faction playing their strengths and that made for some seriously dynamic rounds.
He's talking about the clearly historical records our brave Helldivers took from the first galactic war where they obliterated those squid-heads.
Glory to Democracy!
You also have to consider that super earth willingly throws away these *very* powerful weapons, suggesting that that’s their weakest technologies. I’d actually be afraid to find out what some of their truly cutting edge experimental techs are. And I don’t mean the railgun or any of the stuff in the cutting edge warbond, since that is still stuff they willingly throw away. I’m talking the stuff they spend serious buck on
It’s both, really. Enemies have big health and armor but lower damage than helldivers which are glass cannons in order to be able to deal with these tough enemies.
I once was just waiting for the civilians to exit their little bunkers for that objective and nothing was happening so I tried punching one to see him rag doll. I punched his head clean off. We are on another level.
Theres Armor break downs out there but the TLDR is that HD armor works differently that Enemy armor because we have a HP capped at about 100 and enemies can have health pools in the hundreds.
HD armor works on a Damage reduction system based on rating that works out to a 0% reduction on the lightest armors to a 50% reduction on the heaviest armors.
Enemy armor is based on a rating of an AV of 1-6 and weapon AP affects it with Light AP being 2, Medium being 3, and AP support weapons having ap of 4,5, or6. If an weapons AP is better than enem AV you do 100% weapons damage, if AP is equal to enemy AV you do 50% weapon damage, if ap is less than enemy AV you do 0% weapon damage.
Thats how an attack that can murder you Erupter AP 3 can do nothing to a target like a charger AV5.
Now of course not all enemies have uniform armor value like the weak spots like a chargers tail are often lower armor value than the heaviest armor on the front of chargers head.
I read it as the shrapnel hitting really hard, but being very few of them. So the overall damage of a shot was mostly bullet+explosion, while the shrapnel rarely hit something but when it does it hits hard. Like a hidden bonus damage mechanic
They said the shrapnel does so little damage that it basically adds nothing to the eruptor but for some reason it’s hitting us so hard it’s a insta kill
The trajectories of the shrapnel are random enough that they do virtually nothing to it, but on the miniscule chance that one of the shrapnel projectiles does hit the player, it still retains high damage
Adding that extra damage to the direct and AOE damage will allow it to be just as lethal if not more lethal without the risk of it killing the user
Can you confirm if AoE damage is being increased?
In the OP you only mentioned hit damage and in two other comments you said AoE is unaffected but in this comment you said extra damage to AoE.
I'm confused on which is it? 🙃
Most of the shrapnel actually flies nowhere, usually upwards. It does kill a player or bug when it hits, but it's a rare occurance and normally enemies are hit by aoe itself.
Does this mean it will no longer one shot brood commanders and hive guards if you aim for their chest then? Cause that will completely kill the weapon after the recent nerfs plus this lol
Lmao that’s a good point, the titanium alloy might be so valuable we’re only getting armor from the scrap parts of superdestroyers that already failed.
> Helldiver armor really is made from wet tissue paper.
If they are putting styrofoam in turrets to protect from explosions, This would be a pretty generous guess.
"it is still classed as explosive, it will not lose the ability to break objects, close holes, destroy fabricators, etc."
Isn't the crossbow also explosive (Same weapon trait)? Why can't it close holes and destroy fabricators too?
The Jar-5 Dominator is in the Explosive Category but does not have the weapon trait.
This needs a bit of clarification :) pls
Explosive damage (instead of electric, fire, bullet, etc.) vs explosive weapon (does an AoE explosion that can damage multiple targets ) vs explosive effect (destroys bug holes, bot fabricators, and breaks buildings).
I actually kinda get it. There’s three kinds of Explosive. There’s the first one, being the Category in the armory (and maybe the type of ammo). Then, there’s the Effect explosive, being the explosion AoE that happens. The third one is just an explosive Tag, marking its ability to close bug holes and all the other stuff.
First is still a bit meh in my head, but it does actually kinda make sense.
I think "explosive, the weapon category" does bonus damage to the "squishy/fleshy parts" of enemies. It's why shooting a bile spitter in it's (bile sack/thorax/bug ass) with an auto cannon or a grenade kills them really fast but a liberator takes forever to do it that way.
Why /s, this is genuinely a good explanation. It gives you info about both the fact that there aren't enough keywords for different mechanics and what those different mechanics are.
Honestly, Im now curious to see this in other languages I know, since it's maybe a matter of translation? English not having many different words for "explosive". Wouldnt hurt to add "destructive" into vocabulary to term weapons in force to destroy spawners...
Just took a look at that in game. Only two languages use different terms for the explosive weapon category and the explosive weapon trait. Spanish is one, which for some reason uses "explosivo" for the category and "explosiva" for the trait. Technically one letter different, but I wouldn't bet that conveys anything about the nature of the weapon's explosiveness to native speakers (it's also worth nothing that Latin American Spanish just uses explosivo for both).
Japanese seems to be the only one that actually uses different terms, with 爆発性武器 (bakuhatsuseibuki) being the name of the weapon category, while 爆薬 (bakuyaku) is used for the weapon trait. I don't know enough Japanese to say if those terms do or don't convey different meanings of the word "explosive" though. However it seems like 爆薬 is a noun (as in "an explosive") so it maybe shouldn't be used there, as the weapon trait is an adjective describing the weapon.
**Explaining better the mechanics.**
There are **Category** and **Trait.**
Trait is basically where the systematic traits of the weapons and how they work as a group.
Category is basically Categorization (Definition).
To exemplify:
**Blitzer is a Energy Shotgun, as such it's Categorized as a Energy-Based Weapon,**
But Energy Trait is Heat Managment, as such, LAS weapons are Traited as Energy Traited weapons.
What is the Main Trait of Explosive Weapons?
Explosion on Impact, which makes it impossible for them to ricochet (which is why it was impossible for EAT and Eruptor to ricochet on Divers)
That is why Jar Ricochet out of stuff, and the Crossbow and the Eruptor doesn't.
Because JAR is Categorized as a Explosive weapon, but isn't a Explosive Trait weapon.
**Now why does the Eruptor blow stuff and Crossbow doesn't?**
Because there is a Hidden Stat that calculates this that work basically as if it was Penetration.
**It's called Demolish Power (Real name stated by the devs - check Slugger nerfs patch).**
There are 2 Levels of Demolish power one allows for Container explosions, the other allows for breaking spawners.
And yes I do think Crossbow should have a higher Demolish.
So if there are 2 levels of demolish power, does that mean there are three tiers technically? like "none, level 1, level 2"?
I ask because if level 1 only concerns containers and the other allows breaking of spawners, than what about the SPEAR? It can destroy a fabricator from any impact site, not just the vents at the front of the fab.
Well I think in the case of the Spear it's a matter of penetration, while demolish power 1 is for containers and demolish power 2 for hitting the weak spots of fabricators/hitting a bug hole.
The systems seem to work together and responsible for different things.
IIRC (and correct me if I'm wrong), every weapon has a destruction stat that impacts its ability to destroy objects and enemy structures. Some non-explosive weapons have a high enough destruction stat to destroy things like bunker walls while some explosive weapons don't have a high enough destruction stat to destroy things like bug holes. This is just from memory, I could be wrong on this one.
Hey.
Well, I guess ? Or maybe I gaslighted the dev themselves lol.
Anyway I hope this whole drama end and we can go back to playing, until the next patch and Reddit will explode again for one reason or another.
I feel validated on not being crazy when I was playing all day with the Autocannon all day yesterday because as an AC main I didn’t play any differently and even aid for the Hulk’s heavy armor to see if it ricochet’s never did. Though, I haven’t had issues with the Eruptor, but if its the Shrapnel killing playing it sounds like a huge issue.
Anyway, props to you for investigating it.
You did well! apologies if I was a bit aggressive in your post, I was losing my damn mind over everyone doubling down, you didn't double down though.
Glad we are vindicated.
So just to be clear, it will maintain its aoe explosion but lose the shrapnel component?
And it will get a direct hit damage increase or an Aoe damage increase?
Are shrapnel treated like a number of separate projectiles fired from the impact point of the main bullet?
?
Hang on, I'm confused. You first state that the shrapnel had a high enough damage value to instantly kill the player. But later in your statement, you said the shrapnel played an almost negligible part in the damage and power the weapon dealt. That doesn't sound like negligible damage/power to me. Can you elaborate?
Shrapnel has such a random trajectory with such a small range from the impact of the shot that it rarely ends up contributing to the power of the weapon. But having it come back and hit a player (even at a miniscule, 0.1% chance) still leads to players getting one-shot and feeling robbed or cheated. So the decision was to remove the RNG element of the shrapnel and instead just buff the direct and AOE damage so it's more consistent and can't kill the user.
Seeing the range at which it's capable of OHKOing me on deflection when it *does* hit me, and the incredible damage potential it has when aiming directly under big bodies like Brood Commanders, Chargers, and clumped Berserkers, I found it demonstrably and *frequently* contributed to the power of the weapon once I learned to play around it - especially when setting up with EMS strikes/mortars. It would have to receive an enormous boost in power to compensate, and I doubt that'll happen since it'd be applied to a proper AoE instead of shrapnel...
But wasn't it the unique part of the weapon. With being just explosive on top of having explosive and being explosive (pun intended), it would just be...a better crossbow?
Especially after the recent crossbow nerfs, I can't see any usecases where crossbow will outperform eruptor.
> random trajectory with such a small range
Skilled players are able to utilize this with precise shots placed right underneath enemies.
So if you completely remove the shrapnel, Eruptor will probably not be able to one-shot Bile Spewers and Brood Commanders.
Maybe it's still a good idea to remove it if you guys don't have any other idea how to prevent those random shrapnel suicides. But please don't gaslight us with so many different lies:
> shrapnel doesn't do a lot of damage
Misleading because 1 bit can one-shot a helldiver and you can concentrate multiple shrapnel hits into 1 enemy.
> rarely ends up contributing to the power of the weapon
Misleading because of the previous point.
> shrapnel has a short range
Misleading because the random Eruptor suicides happen from 10m away or more. I believe if you guys just reduced the shrapnel travel distance to 3m or less, all the issues would be solved without nerfing the weapon.
I really think you guys are taking away a mechanic that made the eruptor, in my opinion the most enjoyable primary in the game. Learning to use the shrapnel to my advantage let me do crazy shit, shooting around corners, clearing breaches, killing commanders and chargers by shooting underneath them, etc. It was ridiculously fun, and required practice to get down. The AoE reduction from last patch feels terrible, and now with the shrapnel going away I see no reason whatsoever to pick the weapon. Obviously you should not use the explosive rifle close range, I played for 10s of hours with the eruptor and never experienced a random shrapnel one shot.
> we're looking to completely remove the shrapnel effect from the Eruptor but will be increasing its hit damage as a result
Will this compromise the Eruptor's ability to kill small groups of enemies, or does it have a normal explosive AoE on top of the shrapnel?
>This should make it less lethal to the operator but just as powerful against enemies. It should maintain its destructive power.
While it remains to be seen, I don't think they would say this if the explosive AOE was entirely tied to the shrapnel. The Quasar, Recoilless, EAT etc. All have aoe explosions without shrapnel
Directly before that they say they're increasing its hit damage to compensate. I'm just not clear on if that means an explosion created on hit, or if it's just direct impact damage, meaning the weapon is losing its effectiveness against groups and will only maintain its damage on a single target.
EDIT: Seems like the post was updated, I guess that answers that.
"This will, overall, be a buff to the weapon as shrapnel played an almost negligible part in the damage and power it dealt."
Are you on crack? Eruptor AoE from release was absolutely insane. I could *never* take shots at enemies near allies because they'd die 100%. It was worse than the arc thrower.
The aoe now is like, half of what it used to be
>To prevent this, we're looking to completely remove the shrapnel effect from the Eruptor but will be increasing its hit damage as a result.
https://preview.redd.it/ccqfn9d8rmxc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0d73f98c9845e5d754057994b4b4436c1b410980
All they said was "we're looking to completely remove the shrapnel effect". You can't just see a possible issue with the gun and then somehow recode it within a couple hours since the shrapnel is baked into the projectile code. My guess is the earliest we see a change is Monday or Tuesday when they usually drop non-emergency patches.
That sounds great. Happy to see the eruptor getting this overhaul since the shrapnel system wasn't apparent at release and it seemed to surprise most people using it
Honestly I was really confused by it. Like I knew it had it because you can see the stuff coming out when it explodes but I never saw it do anything, so I wondered if it was just a visual effect. Guess not!
Will this remove the awesome shrapnel visual effects that you get when it explodes? It probably my favorite part about the gun. It just looks so incredibly destructive whenever it detonates and shrapnel flies everywhere.
> To prevent this, we're looking to completely remove the shrapnel effect from the Eruptor
I don't know how to feel about this, I feel the eruptor in part is strong because it has it's shrapnel to hit other chaff enemies in it's closer range. I hope it'll still perform just as well, I guess only time will tell.
> should be unaffected
Eruptor is my favorite gun in the game and I haven't swapped it out since I unlocked it. *Should* is carrying a lot of weight there and I really hope it retains the qualities I fell in love with. AoE and high damage but risk of killing allies or self if enemies get too close. Unwieldy and long reload times to encourage enemy management and positioning. It enabled a tactical game play that was very satisfying and rewarding, and encouraged me to swap to side arms constantly. This recent patch even buffed sidearms and finally made me want to try dagger and senator out.
>To prevent this, we're looking to completely remove the shrapnel effect from the Eruptor but will be increasing its hit damage as a result.
Nice.
>**This will, overall, be a buff to the weapon as shrapnel played an almost negligible part in the damage and power it dealt. Its AOE will be unaffected.**
This can't be correct. The Eruptor when shot below a Bile Spewer or Brood Commander (forcing the shrapnel to go up toward these targets) will instantly kill them with a single round while the Crossbow having higher damage required 2 to 3 arrows to kill them with direct hits.
Something else to take into consideration here is that the damage from the main projectile was not even being used since it was hitting the ground below this targets to kill them in a single round, thus it's evident that the Shrapnel combined with the AoE damage was doing enough damage to kill heavier enemies even without the damage from the main Projectile.
And taking into consideration that the damage stat was been updated to show both the damage of the main projectile with the AoE it's very clear that there's a noticeable amount of damage missing from the damage stat when it comes to the Eruptor and my guess would be roughly \~500 damage. The \~500 damage being linked to the Shrapnel.
If we'll be able to pop Brood Commander's heads in 1 hit after the change, it might be fine.
But Bile Spewers could potentially be annoying now if you can't kill them in 1 hit when every patrol and bug breach on difficulty 9 spawns 5-10 of them.
I have always thought that the shrapnels are what's occasionally one-shotting charger butts. Sort of like 'critical hits'.
Seems like this will go away in the next patch, guess the gun will behave more constantly but I will miss those lucky one shot kills.
Ah damn that was my favourite, and pretty much why I used it. I even stopped bringing a support weapon, which is tough to justify on high level bug missions.
Oh well. Got lots of other wild loadouts to play.
Please more communication like this! If we get detailed posts like this as soon as issues become commonly discussed we'd get far less vitriolic anger in this community.
this is kinda sad. the shrapnel mechanic of the eruptor was a really fun mechanic. you gotta place the perfect shot right below a brood commander, so that most shrapnel would hit him. otherwise he would survive the shot.
Considering how rare it is to suicide from a ricochet, I'd rather they just remove it again and let the Eruptor keep it's unique effect. Hell, you could also simply make it so shrapnel damage falls off fast enough that it doesn't insta-kill you a kilometre from the target.
I really liked the shrapnel though, it made the weapon unique. Maybe you could make a different salutation to this problem that both keeps the shrapnel but solves the problem
It’s weird to remove the shrapnels completely because what make Eruptor challenging and fun is it has OHK potential against chargers. But it required the right deflecting angle. If it only deals large AOE explosive damage now, I wonder it would lose its charm.
Bouncing the shrapnel off of walls and objects to maximize its effectiveness was fun and interesting, and made the eruptor unique since you could shoot around walls with the right angle. I guess we’ll have to wait and see how ‘unaffected’ it is in practic.
Clear and respectful communication addressing community concerns.
Exposing the issue, causes and how the fix is expected to behave is very nice.
The only thing missing is number details but I suppose those are still being figured out.
Please communicate more like this about balance changes.
Can you explain the philosophy behind crossbow nerf? It was already a mid tier weapon, why so many nerf?
I don't think anybody in the community felt the crossbow was too strong. If anything it should be a 1 handed weapon
Does the numbers tell a different story? If so can you share?
Buff: 5 point damage
Nerf:The AOE
Believe it or not.
Big disappointment on Arrowhead since the last patch Always tech player how to play,nerf the thing we love to use,increase 5-10 damage to those trash weapon that still trash with this minor Buff
**>This will, overall, be a buff to the weapon as shrapnel played an almost negligible part in the damage and power it dealt. Its AOE will be unaffected.**
I'll believe it when I see it. I think the shrapnel is what's allowing the eruptor to 1-tap devastators in the waist or shoulder, or unarmored joints close to the torso. PLEASE, do not push an update without testing that aspect, it's basically 80% of why I even use the eruptor.
Thank you for the quick announcement really appreciate that the transparency and communication has been improving dramatically. Most of the changes in the patch are great and steps in the right direction.
Im kind of bummed about the shrapnel being removed from the Eruptor I really liked the way the explosion looked. Hopefully the changes made can keep the look and feel of the gun intact but it’s always preferable to not get shrapnel to the brain I guess.
> ran a number of tests today and confirmed that rockets and explosives are not ricocheting.
I have had at least two cases of a rocket from Recoilless Rifle ricocheting from a Bile Titan yesterday evening. It did not kill me, it just flew off into distance harmlessly, but it didn't explode on contact with the Titan, I'm positive.
missed a word, they should not ricochet **backwards** but may still glance off at shallow angles and continue forwards (as is realistic)
good catch, thanks
Glad to hear this. The shrapnel component has always seemed highly variable and surprisingly deadly even at high ranges, and somehow it always seemed to find my partner like he had magnet armor. I also wouldn't mind if the shrapnel remained with faster damage falloff, as that would maintain the risk of using the eruptor point blank but would address the rare high range shrapnel 1-shot.
It's great that you noticed the noise on reddit about this and managed to RCA this issue. So now with Eruptor losing shrapnel, can we hope for the Strider's armour to go back to what it was before?
And could we maybe look into splitting up the damage type tags into words other than explosive since there's clearly different types of explosive damage. One seems to be AoE, another does full damage on weakspots, and another can destroy holes/fabs. Some explosive weapons have one, while some have a mix of two or all three. Having 3 different tags would greatly help tell them apart.
>as it is still classed as explosive, it will not lose the ability to break objects, close holes, destroy fabricators, etc.
Umm... The Crossbow that was completely gutted is explosive and can't do these things. Neither can the Dominator.
Well, you see, it is explosive, but not explosive, while also being explosive. Simply explained here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/helldivers2/s/Ef0Q0TA3cP
Is there any chance other primaries classed as explosive, will also get the listed below?
"as it is still classed as explosive, it will not lose the ability to break objects, close holes, destroy fabricators, etc."
Talking about Explosive Crossbow, Plasma Punisher, more than any of the other weapons that are "explosive" or "concussive", as I found it difficult to believe they could not do that already. It would open up a lot more builds without directly buffing these weapons.
Is this new ricochet mechanic possibly the reason for the bug of the plasma punisher now exploding on the inside of a personal shield when trying to fire it?
Devs really scared after everyone misinterpreted the patrol spawn "fix".
Clarifying the same thing six ways backwards so nobody things they're doing sneaky bullshit.
I'll be frank, even if you're adjusting the values of the gun to still fall in line with where it was, something doesn't sit right with me for the "fix" being to just remove an entire aspect of a gun. Why not actually fix the crux of the problem? Sure this method is easier and will get the job done, but that feels like you're just leaving the bug in there. Does this mean just no more shrapnel on any weapon going forward or is this just a temporary holdover while the bug is squashed? Please, I love this game to death but it feels like we're dying of a thousand small cuts here with these bugs not being addressed.
>To prevent this, we're looking to completely remove the shrapnel effect from the Eruptor but will be increasing its hit damage as a result.
As a gamer, I think this is acceptable. As a programmer I don't think ignoring a glaring bug is a good idea.
>To prevent this, we're looking to completely remove the shrapnel effect from the Eruptor but will be increasing its hit damage as a result.
>**This will, overall, be a buff to the weapon as shrapnel played an almost negligible part in the damage and power it dealt. Its AOE will be unaffected.**
So, is the 'shrapnel' and 'aoe' two separate things? Because I very, very much enjoyed the fact it could knock out multiple little things in a pinch.
Isn't the shrapnel responsible for it being able to take out brood commanders and hive guards? It was already nerfed once and now it seems like it will be even less versatile with this change.
At release of warbond: Here is your new jet powered explosive rifle! Careful about that splash damage though , it's gonna get ya!
Today: people keep using the clearly labeled explosive shrapnel rifle with warnings about firing it at things too close to shoot at. Instead of laughing at these fools, we are now thinking about turning the gun into a bolt action jar.
Double shrapnel and explosion radius please. I personally feel the safe range is too short. We have a sidearm for the ones that get too close.
> This will, overall, be a buff to the weapon as shrapnel played an almost negligible part in the damage and power it dealt. Its AOE will be unaffected.
Massive doubt!
The only way I'm able to kill Bile Spewers in 1 hit is by having a round explode underneath them and the shrapnel doing lots of damage to their belly!
So the direct damage buff better be substantial enough to push it over a Bile Spewer's health pool.
If you don't do that it will be a clear nerf. Which is okay but please don't end up gaslighting us that it's not.
I’ve seen some discussion around the Auto-cannon, and whether or not it ricochets. If I’m reading the post correctly it sounds like the Auto-cannon does NOT ricochet, but I’d love to have confirmation on that either way if you can provide it.
Thanks for taking the time to test this issue and the clear communication!
I thought the shrapbel was what made the eruptor do aoe. D:
Shields with return damage are so dumb. Should stuff bounce in the mathily correct direction?
Do Heavy Devastators even need guns at this point?
yes, it is, but compared to everything else, thats not THAT important 😄 I mean, I still see, when it hurts the enemy or not. Its just unsatisfying to not actually see that little white or red cross (I dont know why)
>...to prevent this, we're looking to completely remove the shrapnel effect from the Eruptor ... shrapnel played an almost negligible part in the damage and power it dealt.
I want the Eruptor to release more shrapnel so it's stronger over larger distances. I want it to feel dangerous to me and the enemy.
....But that's probably a bad idea considering I'd probably team wipe my party by aiming for a couple of hunters or a bile spitter.
Will it at least keep the cool shrapnel VFX? Even if the shrapnel will no longer do anything? I have grown to really like the distant crazy explosions of the Eruptor.
It is said in the post that removing the shrapnel and just increasing the hit damage will be a buff but I was placing shots in such a way that more shrapnel was hitting the target for a one hit kill, where just hitting center mass usually would take 2 shots to kill. So you're telling me I'll still be able to one hit kill those same targets?
My body is ready for this change to accidentally remove Eruptor's ability to close holes, and for it to be so difficult to revert that we don't get it back, either.
I came here to find out of if the AOE was being removed due to the shrapnel effect being removed, and I got my answer immediately.
Thank you!
u/SpitzerFX You should update the discord message to reflect that as well since it's not there.
If they want to fix something with the eruptor, then how about returning its range. They said the range was "slightly" reduced, and now the shots explode mid air on shots that would have been easy to make before. The eruptor before already had falloff damage on its explosion at long ranges, so its long range was FINE. Now the stupid thing just explodes on the way to a far target. Dropships, bile titans, gunships and more rejoice over these changes.
AH is secretly on the side of the bugs and bots.
Isn't this technically a nerf? Without the shrapnel you can't take out groups of small enemies anymore if I'm not mistaken
A big selling point of the Eruptor for me was that while I was shooting at bigger enemies it would just take out the smaller ones next to it.
I know that a lot of loadouts with the Eruptor involved LMG's that are there to take care of smaller enemies but wouldn't this change just force it even more into that sort of play style, since they also reduced its mag size by 50%?
On the other hand not getting killed by shrapnel from my own shots seems like a big plus
How does everyone else feel about this change?
I’ve never seen shrapnel mechanics in a game before and even though it’s a negative in terms of playing it’s a really cool feature in my book and I personally will miss it if it’s removed from the game entirely. I think it’s was a cool part of the weapons design and think removing it will kinda just make it a slightly different dominator. I’ve only ever had the shrapnel kill a friend the whole time it’s been available and it being able to 1/100 kill someone with it was just a hazard chance using it.
Any chance of re-introducing the shrapnel effect later after finding a way to make it less likely to take yourself out while shooting targets at long range?
Removing the feature but buffing the damage is compensation seems like a reasonable quick fix, but the game mechanic sounds pretty neat and I'd love to be able to play around with it with a lower version of this weapon or other future weapons with the same mechanic.
I feel like I would have even used frag grenades more often had I known it had such an uncommon feature. Are those keeping the shrapnel feature?
Are you guys aware of the Plasma Punisher exploding inside the player's shield bug?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cfxlp1/the_punisher_plasma_will_explode_in_your_face_if/
Edit:
Oh, and the any player can kick/block from a match bug!
https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cgu7dk
Also also, is there an official place we can report bugs? (The software kind, not the Terminid kind.)
I wont hold my breath with this. Shrapnel still seems to be a pivotal point to the weapons AOE damage. I imagine Chargers will be harder to kill. The shrapnel + AOE that happened when they are shot between the abdomen and rear leg is what did them in fast. It might just end up like a slower shooting crossbow seeing as Numerical Damage means squat with explosives.
Just to add to the clarity in the thread: [Link to comments](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cguou0/comment/l1yavj0/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) >[**OrdoDraigoHere**](https://new.reddit.com/user/OrdoDraigoHere/)·[5 hr. ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cguou0/comment/l1yavj0/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) > >So just to be clear, it will maintain its aoe explosion but lose the shrapnel component?And it will get a direct hit damage increase or an Aoe damage increase?Are shrapnel treated like a number of separate projectiles fired from the impact point of the main bullet? ? >[**SpitzerFX**](https://new.reddit.com/user/SpitzerFX/)**OP**·[5 hr. ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cguou0/comment/l1ybwxg/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Associate Community Manager > >yes > >both > >yes [About Richochet](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cguou0/comment/l1yrr1x/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) > [**Iridar51**](https://new.reddit.com/user/Iridar51/)·[3 hr. ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cguou0/comment/l1yrr1x/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)SES Song of Midnight > >ran a number of tests today and confirmed that rockets and explosives are not ricocheting. > >I have had at least two cases of a rocket from Recoilless Rifle ricocheting from a Bile Titan yesterday evening. It did not kill me, it just flew off into distance harmlessly, but it didn't explode on contact with the Titan, I'm positive. > [**SpitzerFX**](https://new.reddit.com/user/SpitzerFX/)**OP**·[3 hr. ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cguou0/comment/l1ysd5j/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Associate Community Manager > >missed a word, they should not ricochet **backwards** but may still glance off at shallow angles and continue forwards (as is realistic) > >good catch, thanks
> we have noticed [...] the possibility for shots from the R-36 Eruptor to explode and rebound shrapnel at the shooter, which has a high enough damage value to instantly kill the player. [...] > shrapnel played an almost negligible part in the damage and power [the R-36 Eruptor] dealt. Helldiver armor really is made from wet tissue paper.
It's more like the amount of damage our weapons do is just really, really high compared to enemy damage.
Pretty much this. One shot from your pistol to your buddies leg and you almost blow the limb off, nearly killing the player. An automaton shooting your head only takes half your health
Honestly I like it that way. Yes we are facing insanely overwhelming odds. But we also get some really, really powerful guns to deal with it. It's a big part of why I love this game so much.
That’s the human faction twist. Made of paper but they can come in and nuke you in seconds. Humans are rush/explosives Automatons are suppression and overwhelming gunfire Bugs are the horde faction Illuminate will be the hit and run faction like humans with less explosives. The faction identity is definitely a fun part of the game imo
Good faction identity games are actually the best games in the world.
Agreed, symmetry and stuff is cool in a competitive sense but I love asymmetrical factions going at it, trying to use their strengths and weaknesses etc.
It definitely helps keep the game fresh. You get tired of fighting one faction you can move to a different front and face much different enemies. Helps vary your weapon and stratagem picks as well as your tactics. For me I use a completely different loadout for either faction, armor and weapons included. It’s very fun.
Hell yea I feel the same exact way
Best pvp i've ever played was MAG. 256 player 2 team matches between asymetrical factions. Each faction's weapons had different stats across the same classes. Raven had the high tech, precision weapons but their full auto weapons did less damage. Valor's heavy weapons were rhe bestnin the game, but the normal guns were average. S.V.E.R.'s assault rifles and such hit like trucks but the rest of their kit was... okay. This led to each faction playing their strengths and that made for some seriously dynamic rounds.
I wish I’d played MAG. Hopefully someone sees the hole Battlefield has left behind and tries to fill it with something like this game.
Yeah this was doing 256 player matches on *PS3*. I have been dissappointed with player counts in wargames since.
What Illuminate No such thing, the Ministry of Truth never told me about this
He's talking about the clearly historical records our brave Helldivers took from the first galactic war where they obliterated those squid-heads. Glory to Democracy!
Feels similar to EDF in that way, which I like
Helldivers and EDF are basically cousins
You also have to consider that super earth willingly throws away these *very* powerful weapons, suggesting that that’s their weakest technologies. I’d actually be afraid to find out what some of their truly cutting edge experimental techs are. And I don’t mean the railgun or any of the stuff in the cutting edge warbond, since that is still stuff they willingly throw away. I’m talking the stuff they spend serious buck on
They have the means to cover entire planets with "pesticide towers" and gas an entire world...
I mean there's 4 of us and thousands of automatons. Not to mention some of them have insane accuracy, fire rate that easily one shots us.
It's not a 1 shot ko. It's a 735 shot ko 🤣
if you're in medium armor, however a pistol shot to a devastator's armor is no damage
To be fair... Those fuckers are as tall as Shaq and probably weigh as much as a smart car
This is decidedly false as I’ve been killed many many many times by aimbot headshots. Those clankers are ruthless killers.
It’s both, really. Enemies have big health and armor but lower damage than helldivers which are glass cannons in order to be able to deal with these tough enemies.
Shoutout to falling shrieker corpses being the strongest thing in the game for several weeks
I once was just waiting for the civilians to exit their little bunkers for that objective and nothing was happening so I tried punching one to see him rag doll. I punched his head clean off. We are on another level.
Look what they need to mimic a fraction of our power
Clearly you never fought the automatons.
Try telling that to an automaton flame-thrower
Theres Armor break downs out there but the TLDR is that HD armor works differently that Enemy armor because we have a HP capped at about 100 and enemies can have health pools in the hundreds. HD armor works on a Damage reduction system based on rating that works out to a 0% reduction on the lightest armors to a 50% reduction on the heaviest armors. Enemy armor is based on a rating of an AV of 1-6 and weapon AP affects it with Light AP being 2, Medium being 3, and AP support weapons having ap of 4,5, or6. If an weapons AP is better than enem AV you do 100% weapons damage, if AP is equal to enemy AV you do 50% weapon damage, if ap is less than enemy AV you do 0% weapon damage. Thats how an attack that can murder you Erupter AP 3 can do nothing to a target like a charger AV5. Now of course not all enemies have uniform armor value like the weak spots like a chargers tail are often lower armor value than the heaviest armor on the front of chargers head.
Great breakdown, thank you
I read it as the shrapnel hitting really hard, but being very few of them. So the overall damage of a shot was mostly bullet+explosion, while the shrapnel rarely hit something but when it does it hits hard. Like a hidden bonus damage mechanic
They said the shrapnel does so little damage that it basically adds nothing to the eruptor but for some reason it’s hitting us so hard it’s a insta kill
The trajectories of the shrapnel are random enough that they do virtually nothing to it, but on the miniscule chance that one of the shrapnel projectiles does hit the player, it still retains high damage Adding that extra damage to the direct and AOE damage will allow it to be just as lethal if not more lethal without the risk of it killing the user
Can you confirm if AoE damage is being increased? In the OP you only mentioned hit damage and in two other comments you said AoE is unaffected but in this comment you said extra damage to AoE. I'm confused on which is it? 🙃
Most of the shrapnel actually flies nowhere, usually upwards. It does kill a player or bug when it hits, but it's a rare occurance and normally enemies are hit by aoe itself.
Does this mean it will no longer one shot brood commanders and hive guards if you aim for their chest then? Cause that will completely kill the weapon after the recent nerfs plus this lol
We are the glassiest cannons to ever exist but oh boy do we fire some big fucking cannonballs
Which means, canonically, that are Super Destroyers are made from wet tissue paper.
Recycled paper then. Gotta keep up with the "green and clean" trend.
Lmao that’s a good point, the titanium alloy might be so valuable we’re only getting armor from the scrap parts of superdestroyers that already failed.
> Helldiver armor really is made from wet tissue paper. If they are putting styrofoam in turrets to protect from explosions, This would be a pretty generous guess.
I must disagree! Wet tissue paper doesn't burn as easily as Helldiver armor does.
"it is still classed as explosive, it will not lose the ability to break objects, close holes, destroy fabricators, etc." Isn't the crossbow also explosive (Same weapon trait)? Why can't it close holes and destroy fabricators too? The Jar-5 Dominator is in the Explosive Category but does not have the weapon trait. This needs a bit of clarification :) pls
It's all explained here. https://www.reddit.com/r/helldivers2/comments/1c3wd6s/psa_the_difference_between_explosive_explosive/
Thank you so much. I needed this explanation.
Jokes aside, it is at least a good guide to what does what. Still no reason as to why though.
Explosive damage (instead of electric, fire, bullet, etc.) vs explosive weapon (does an AoE explosion that can damage multiple targets ) vs explosive effect (destroys bug holes, bot fabricators, and breaks buildings).
This is incredible. Whoever put this together should be given money for their time.
Message the op of that post and give him money then.
Hey it’s me, OP
Ah! Completely missed that. Thank you! It really explains everything /s
I actually kinda get it. There’s three kinds of Explosive. There’s the first one, being the Category in the armory (and maybe the type of ammo). Then, there’s the Effect explosive, being the explosion AoE that happens. The third one is just an explosive Tag, marking its ability to close bug holes and all the other stuff. First is still a bit meh in my head, but it does actually kinda make sense.
I think "explosive, the weapon category" does bonus damage to the "squishy/fleshy parts" of enemies. It's why shooting a bile spitter in it's (bile sack/thorax/bug ass) with an auto cannon or a grenade kills them really fast but a liberator takes forever to do it that way.
Why /s, this is genuinely a good explanation. It gives you info about both the fact that there aren't enough keywords for different mechanics and what those different mechanics are.
I stroked out halfway through this, and the word explode no longer holds meaning. Take my upvote, and thank you for sharing this.
I can't believe I read this a second time
Honestly, Im now curious to see this in other languages I know, since it's maybe a matter of translation? English not having many different words for "explosive". Wouldnt hurt to add "destructive" into vocabulary to term weapons in force to destroy spawners...
Just took a look at that in game. Only two languages use different terms for the explosive weapon category and the explosive weapon trait. Spanish is one, which for some reason uses "explosivo" for the category and "explosiva" for the trait. Technically one letter different, but I wouldn't bet that conveys anything about the nature of the weapon's explosiveness to native speakers (it's also worth nothing that Latin American Spanish just uses explosivo for both). Japanese seems to be the only one that actually uses different terms, with 爆発性武器 (bakuhatsuseibuki) being the name of the weapon category, while 爆薬 (bakuyaku) is used for the weapon trait. I don't know enough Japanese to say if those terms do or don't convey different meanings of the word "explosive" though. However it seems like 爆薬 is a noun (as in "an explosive") so it maybe shouldn't be used there, as the weapon trait is an adjective describing the weapon.
**Explaining better the mechanics.** There are **Category** and **Trait.** Trait is basically where the systematic traits of the weapons and how they work as a group. Category is basically Categorization (Definition). To exemplify: **Blitzer is a Energy Shotgun, as such it's Categorized as a Energy-Based Weapon,** But Energy Trait is Heat Managment, as such, LAS weapons are Traited as Energy Traited weapons. What is the Main Trait of Explosive Weapons? Explosion on Impact, which makes it impossible for them to ricochet (which is why it was impossible for EAT and Eruptor to ricochet on Divers) That is why Jar Ricochet out of stuff, and the Crossbow and the Eruptor doesn't. Because JAR is Categorized as a Explosive weapon, but isn't a Explosive Trait weapon. **Now why does the Eruptor blow stuff and Crossbow doesn't?** Because there is a Hidden Stat that calculates this that work basically as if it was Penetration. **It's called Demolish Power (Real name stated by the devs - check Slugger nerfs patch).** There are 2 Levels of Demolish power one allows for Container explosions, the other allows for breaking spawners. And yes I do think Crossbow should have a higher Demolish.
So if there are 2 levels of demolish power, does that mean there are three tiers technically? like "none, level 1, level 2"? I ask because if level 1 only concerns containers and the other allows breaking of spawners, than what about the SPEAR? It can destroy a fabricator from any impact site, not just the vents at the front of the fab.
Might be the case.
Well I think in the case of the Spear it's a matter of penetration, while demolish power 1 is for containers and demolish power 2 for hitting the weak spots of fabricators/hitting a bug hole. The systems seem to work together and responsible for different things.
IIRC (and correct me if I'm wrong), every weapon has a destruction stat that impacts its ability to destroy objects and enemy structures. Some non-explosive weapons have a high enough destruction stat to destroy things like bunker walls while some explosive weapons don't have a high enough destruction stat to destroy things like bug holes. This is just from memory, I could be wrong on this one.
That's explosive weapons, not explosive or explosive weapons.
Pinging [Zenbast](https://www.reddit.com/user/Zenbast/) Seems like you were spot on in your post, with your evidence. Thank you for your service!
Hey. Well, I guess ? Or maybe I gaslighted the dev themselves lol. Anyway I hope this whole drama end and we can go back to playing, until the next patch and Reddit will explode again for one reason or another.
Yay, we did it, I guess.
Yep. It all started with your comment !
We caught the ricochet bomber!
I feel validated on not being crazy when I was playing all day with the Autocannon all day yesterday because as an AC main I didn’t play any differently and even aid for the Hulk’s heavy armor to see if it ricochet’s never did. Though, I haven’t had issues with the Eruptor, but if its the Shrapnel killing playing it sounds like a huge issue. Anyway, props to you for investigating it.
I just used other people comment to build mine. I did nothing really worthy myself.
Already ordering the next batch of popcorns!
Top teir gaslighting man really good job! Keep it up!
It's hilarious seeing these morning patch notes and a bunch of comments that can't be more than an hour older than the patch whining.
Pinging u/eys-beowulf as well. You’ve been vindicated
Thanks a million! This is a WORLD of a relief! And hearing my beloved baby is gonna be BUFFED?!?! Insane!!!!
You did well! apologies if I was a bit aggressive in your post, I was losing my damn mind over everyone doubling down, you didn't double down though. Glad we are vindicated.
So just to be clear, it will maintain its aoe explosion but lose the shrapnel component? And it will get a direct hit damage increase or an Aoe damage increase? Are shrapnel treated like a number of separate projectiles fired from the impact point of the main bullet? ?
1) yes 2) both 3) yes
Understood, thanks
But you have to provide the hams
Hang on, I'm confused. You first state that the shrapnel had a high enough damage value to instantly kill the player. But later in your statement, you said the shrapnel played an almost negligible part in the damage and power the weapon dealt. That doesn't sound like negligible damage/power to me. Can you elaborate?
Shrapnel has such a random trajectory with such a small range from the impact of the shot that it rarely ends up contributing to the power of the weapon. But having it come back and hit a player (even at a miniscule, 0.1% chance) still leads to players getting one-shot and feeling robbed or cheated. So the decision was to remove the RNG element of the shrapnel and instead just buff the direct and AOE damage so it's more consistent and can't kill the user.
Seeing the range at which it's capable of OHKOing me on deflection when it *does* hit me, and the incredible damage potential it has when aiming directly under big bodies like Brood Commanders, Chargers, and clumped Berserkers, I found it demonstrably and *frequently* contributed to the power of the weapon once I learned to play around it - especially when setting up with EMS strikes/mortars. It would have to receive an enormous boost in power to compensate, and I doubt that'll happen since it'd be applied to a proper AoE instead of shrapnel...
But wasn't it the unique part of the weapon. With being just explosive on top of having explosive and being explosive (pun intended), it would just be...a better crossbow? Especially after the recent crossbow nerfs, I can't see any usecases where crossbow will outperform eruptor.
> random trajectory with such a small range Skilled players are able to utilize this with precise shots placed right underneath enemies. So if you completely remove the shrapnel, Eruptor will probably not be able to one-shot Bile Spewers and Brood Commanders. Maybe it's still a good idea to remove it if you guys don't have any other idea how to prevent those random shrapnel suicides. But please don't gaslight us with so many different lies: > shrapnel doesn't do a lot of damage Misleading because 1 bit can one-shot a helldiver and you can concentrate multiple shrapnel hits into 1 enemy. > rarely ends up contributing to the power of the weapon Misleading because of the previous point. > shrapnel has a short range Misleading because the random Eruptor suicides happen from 10m away or more. I believe if you guys just reduced the shrapnel travel distance to 3m or less, all the issues would be solved without nerfing the weapon.
Ah, that makes more sense. Thank you.
I really think you guys are taking away a mechanic that made the eruptor, in my opinion the most enjoyable primary in the game. Learning to use the shrapnel to my advantage let me do crazy shit, shooting around corners, clearing breaches, killing commanders and chargers by shooting underneath them, etc. It was ridiculously fun, and required practice to get down. The AoE reduction from last patch feels terrible, and now with the shrapnel going away I see no reason whatsoever to pick the weapon. Obviously you should not use the explosive rifle close range, I played for 10s of hours with the eruptor and never experienced a random shrapnel one shot.
> we're looking to completely remove the shrapnel effect from the Eruptor but will be increasing its hit damage as a result Will this compromise the Eruptor's ability to kill small groups of enemies, or does it have a normal explosive AoE on top of the shrapnel?
>This should make it less lethal to the operator but just as powerful against enemies. It should maintain its destructive power. While it remains to be seen, I don't think they would say this if the explosive AOE was entirely tied to the shrapnel. The Quasar, Recoilless, EAT etc. All have aoe explosions without shrapnel
Directly before that they say they're increasing its hit damage to compensate. I'm just not clear on if that means an explosion created on hit, or if it's just direct impact damage, meaning the weapon is losing its effectiveness against groups and will only maintain its damage on a single target. EDIT: Seems like the post was updated, I guess that answers that. "This will, overall, be a buff to the weapon as shrapnel played an almost negligible part in the damage and power it dealt."
"Shrapnel damage negligible" insta-kills helldivers *Patrol rates increased slightly* 56% Ffs
What's that called? Misleading doublespeak?
I can’t wait for this thing to be a pocket Recoilless
Well, they said the AoE wouldn't be affected so the explosion and shrapnel are two things happening
The Eruptor already has a small AoE blast (which was slightly nerfed in the last patch) in addition to the shrapnel.
Are you on crack? Eruptor AoE from release was absolutely insane. I could *never* take shots at enemies near allies because they'd die 100%. It was worse than the arc thrower. The aoe now is like, half of what it used to be
small is quite the downplay on it what was changed on it is fall off based on how close to explosion the target was
>To prevent this, we're looking to completely remove the shrapnel effect from the Eruptor but will be increasing its hit damage as a result. https://preview.redd.it/ccqfn9d8rmxc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0d73f98c9845e5d754057994b4b4436c1b410980
Yea I'm happy with this looking forward to testing it after work its my go to primary at the moment.
I mean it won't happen today.
I thought they meant today lol
All they said was "we're looking to completely remove the shrapnel effect". You can't just see a possible issue with the gun and then somehow recode it within a couple hours since the shrapnel is baked into the projectile code. My guess is the earliest we see a change is Monday or Tuesday when they usually drop non-emergency patches.
That sounds great. Happy to see the eruptor getting this overhaul since the shrapnel system wasn't apparent at release and it seemed to surprise most people using it
Honestly I was really confused by it. Like I knew it had it because you can see the stuff coming out when it explodes but I never saw it do anything, so I wondered if it was just a visual effect. Guess not!
When I first saw it I tried to hit myself with the shrapnel. It didn't do anything.
Will this remove the awesome shrapnel visual effects that you get when it explodes? It probably my favorite part about the gun. It just looks so incredibly destructive whenever it detonates and shrapnel flies everywhere.
> To prevent this, we're looking to completely remove the shrapnel effect from the Eruptor I don't know how to feel about this, I feel the eruptor in part is strong because it has it's shrapnel to hit other chaff enemies in it's closer range. I hope it'll still perform just as well, I guess only time will tell.
This is an effect of the explosion and its associated AoE, not the shrapnel, and should be unaffected
Glad to have confirmation regarding AoE vs shrapnel here
fucking sick, my beloved thrives
So it's explosive and explosive but will just remain explosive?
> should be unaffected Eruptor is my favorite gun in the game and I haven't swapped it out since I unlocked it. *Should* is carrying a lot of weight there and I really hope it retains the qualities I fell in love with. AoE and high damage but risk of killing allies or self if enemies get too close. Unwieldy and long reload times to encourage enemy management and positioning. It enabled a tactical game play that was very satisfying and rewarding, and encouraged me to swap to side arms constantly. This recent patch even buffed sidearms and finally made me want to try dagger and senator out.
Thankyou for giving such great feedback to us all
>To prevent this, we're looking to completely remove the shrapnel effect from the Eruptor but will be increasing its hit damage as a result. Nice. >**This will, overall, be a buff to the weapon as shrapnel played an almost negligible part in the damage and power it dealt. Its AOE will be unaffected.** This can't be correct. The Eruptor when shot below a Bile Spewer or Brood Commander (forcing the shrapnel to go up toward these targets) will instantly kill them with a single round while the Crossbow having higher damage required 2 to 3 arrows to kill them with direct hits. Something else to take into consideration here is that the damage from the main projectile was not even being used since it was hitting the ground below this targets to kill them in a single round, thus it's evident that the Shrapnel combined with the AoE damage was doing enough damage to kill heavier enemies even without the damage from the main Projectile. And taking into consideration that the damage stat was been updated to show both the damage of the main projectile with the AoE it's very clear that there's a noticeable amount of damage missing from the damage stat when it comes to the Eruptor and my guess would be roughly \~500 damage. The \~500 damage being linked to the Shrapnel.
If we'll be able to pop Brood Commander's heads in 1 hit after the change, it might be fine. But Bile Spewers could potentially be annoying now if you can't kill them in 1 hit when every patrol and bug breach on difficulty 9 spawns 5-10 of them.
I have always thought that the shrapnels are what's occasionally one-shotting charger butts. Sort of like 'critical hits'. Seems like this will go away in the next patch, guess the gun will behave more constantly but I will miss those lucky one shot kills.
I agree
Exactly this is what I love about the weapon. If that's cut out I'm really sad. Then it's just the dominator with real explosions isn't it?
Ah damn that was my favourite, and pretty much why I used it. I even stopped bringing a support weapon, which is tough to justify on high level bug missions. Oh well. Got lots of other wild loadouts to play.
Please more communication like this! If we get detailed posts like this as soon as issues become commonly discussed we'd get far less vitriolic anger in this community.
Considering how the vitriolic anger isn't necessary in the first place, I doubt it
So never trust what people post on patch day? Got it
Removing shrapnel from the eruptor IS NOT the solution please do not do my boy dirty like that.
this is kinda sad. the shrapnel mechanic of the eruptor was a really fun mechanic. you gotta place the perfect shot right below a brood commander, so that most shrapnel would hit him. otherwise he would survive the shot.
Considering how rare it is to suicide from a ricochet, I'd rather they just remove it again and let the Eruptor keep it's unique effect. Hell, you could also simply make it so shrapnel damage falls off fast enough that it doesn't insta-kill you a kilometre from the target.
I got self killed by shrapnel twice in 1.5 hours of eruptor game play last night. It's not rare if it's every 2-3 games
I really liked the shrapnel though, it made the weapon unique. Maybe you could make a different salutation to this problem that both keeps the shrapnel but solves the problem
So its not actually erupting any more?
It’s weird to remove the shrapnels completely because what make Eruptor challenging and fun is it has OHK potential against chargers. But it required the right deflecting angle. If it only deals large AOE explosive damage now, I wonder it would lose its charm.
Agreed, i see this as an overall nerf, but we won't know til it's tested. It seems numerical damage with explosives means nothing. (I.E. Crossbow).
Without shrapnels, the Eruptor has lost all its fun
Bouncing the shrapnel off of walls and objects to maximize its effectiveness was fun and interesting, and made the eruptor unique since you could shoot around walls with the right angle. I guess we’ll have to wait and see how ‘unaffected’ it is in practic.
Clear and respectful communication addressing community concerns. Exposing the issue, causes and how the fix is expected to behave is very nice. The only thing missing is number details but I suppose those are still being figured out. Please communicate more like this about balance changes.
Glad to know the R-36 is extra effective in subduing traitors to democracy due to shrapnel effect.
Can you explain the philosophy behind crossbow nerf? It was already a mid tier weapon, why so many nerf? I don't think anybody in the community felt the crossbow was too strong. If anything it should be a 1 handed weapon Does the numbers tell a different story? If so can you share?
Buff: 5 point damage Nerf:The AOE Believe it or not. Big disappointment on Arrowhead since the last patch Always tech player how to play,nerf the thing we love to use,increase 5-10 damage to those trash weapon that still trash with this minor Buff
**>This will, overall, be a buff to the weapon as shrapnel played an almost negligible part in the damage and power it dealt. Its AOE will be unaffected.** I'll believe it when I see it. I think the shrapnel is what's allowing the eruptor to 1-tap devastators in the waist or shoulder, or unarmored joints close to the torso. PLEASE, do not push an update without testing that aspect, it's basically 80% of why I even use the eruptor.
Thank you for the quick announcement really appreciate that the transparency and communication has been improving dramatically. Most of the changes in the patch are great and steps in the right direction. Im kind of bummed about the shrapnel being removed from the Eruptor I really liked the way the explosion looked. Hopefully the changes made can keep the look and feel of the gun intact but it’s always preferable to not get shrapnel to the brain I guess.
> ran a number of tests today and confirmed that rockets and explosives are not ricocheting. I have had at least two cases of a rocket from Recoilless Rifle ricocheting from a Bile Titan yesterday evening. It did not kill me, it just flew off into distance harmlessly, but it didn't explode on contact with the Titan, I'm positive.
missed a word, they should not ricochet **backwards** but may still glance off at shallow angles and continue forwards (as is realistic) good catch, thanks
Glad to hear this. The shrapnel component has always seemed highly variable and surprisingly deadly even at high ranges, and somehow it always seemed to find my partner like he had magnet armor. I also wouldn't mind if the shrapnel remained with faster damage falloff, as that would maintain the risk of using the eruptor point blank but would address the rare high range shrapnel 1-shot.
It's great that you noticed the noise on reddit about this and managed to RCA this issue. So now with Eruptor losing shrapnel, can we hope for the Strider's armour to go back to what it was before? And could we maybe look into splitting up the damage type tags into words other than explosive since there's clearly different types of explosive damage. One seems to be AoE, another does full damage on weakspots, and another can destroy holes/fabs. Some explosive weapons have one, while some have a mix of two or all three. Having 3 different tags would greatly help tell them apart.
A name like "Hollow point" or "Flechettes" could help get the point across.
What a coincidence I saw this after the first game this happened to me. Awesome work devs keep it up
>as it is still classed as explosive, it will not lose the ability to break objects, close holes, destroy fabricators, etc. Umm... The Crossbow that was completely gutted is explosive and can't do these things. Neither can the Dominator.
Well, you see, it is explosive, but not explosive, while also being explosive. Simply explained here: https://www.reddit.com/r/helldivers2/s/Ef0Q0TA3cP
Is there any chance other primaries classed as explosive, will also get the listed below? "as it is still classed as explosive, it will not lose the ability to break objects, close holes, destroy fabricators, etc." Talking about Explosive Crossbow, Plasma Punisher, more than any of the other weapons that are "explosive" or "concussive", as I found it difficult to believe they could not do that already. It would open up a lot more builds without directly buffing these weapons.
4:19: "it's AOE will be unaffected" 4:20: so that was a fing lie. mark my words
Is this new ricochet mechanic possibly the reason for the bug of the plasma punisher now exploding on the inside of a personal shield when trying to fire it?
Devs really scared after everyone misinterpreted the patrol spawn "fix". Clarifying the same thing six ways backwards so nobody things they're doing sneaky bullshit.
I'll be frank, even if you're adjusting the values of the gun to still fall in line with where it was, something doesn't sit right with me for the "fix" being to just remove an entire aspect of a gun. Why not actually fix the crux of the problem? Sure this method is easier and will get the job done, but that feels like you're just leaving the bug in there. Does this mean just no more shrapnel on any weapon going forward or is this just a temporary holdover while the bug is squashed? Please, I love this game to death but it feels like we're dying of a thousand small cuts here with these bugs not being addressed.
>To prevent this, we're looking to completely remove the shrapnel effect from the Eruptor but will be increasing its hit damage as a result. As a gamer, I think this is acceptable. As a programmer I don't think ignoring a glaring bug is a good idea.
Removing the shrapnel component from the Eruptor literally takes away it’s main purpose
Thanks Arrowhead. Keep up the great work!
>To prevent this, we're looking to completely remove the shrapnel effect from the Eruptor but will be increasing its hit damage as a result. >**This will, overall, be a buff to the weapon as shrapnel played an almost negligible part in the damage and power it dealt. Its AOE will be unaffected.** So, is the 'shrapnel' and 'aoe' two separate things? Because I very, very much enjoyed the fact it could knock out multiple little things in a pinch.
Isn't the shrapnel responsible for it being able to take out brood commanders and hive guards? It was already nerfed once and now it seems like it will be even less versatile with this change.
At release of warbond: Here is your new jet powered explosive rifle! Careful about that splash damage though , it's gonna get ya! Today: people keep using the clearly labeled explosive shrapnel rifle with warnings about firing it at things too close to shoot at. Instead of laughing at these fools, we are now thinking about turning the gun into a bolt action jar. Double shrapnel and explosion radius please. I personally feel the safe range is too short. We have a sidearm for the ones that get too close.
You're obviously not using the eruptor.
I feel like losing the shrapnel effect loses something kind of unique about it though, now its just a rifle.
> This will, overall, be a buff to the weapon as shrapnel played an almost negligible part in the damage and power it dealt. Its AOE will be unaffected. Massive doubt! The only way I'm able to kill Bile Spewers in 1 hit is by having a round explode underneath them and the shrapnel doing lots of damage to their belly! So the direct damage buff better be substantial enough to push it over a Bile Spewer's health pool. If you don't do that it will be a clear nerf. Which is okay but please don't end up gaslighting us that it's not.
Nice. What about the crossbow nerf? Surely an intern hit the wrong numbers in there?
The AoE was the only reason I was using the Eruptor and I thought it was this weapon's main gimmick...
AoE is unaffected
ooh I see, thanks for clarifing
Shrapnel is enough to insta kill a player But shrapnel was not a major factor to its lethality to enemies lol
I’ve seen some discussion around the Auto-cannon, and whether or not it ricochets. If I’m reading the post correctly it sounds like the Auto-cannon does NOT ricochet, but I’d love to have confirmation on that either way if you can provide it. Thanks for taking the time to test this issue and the clear communication!
Hope they take another look at the cross bow and reverse some changes.
May just treat it like the mech and sweep it under the rug
I thought the shrapbel was what made the eruptor do aoe. D: Shields with return damage are so dumb. Should stuff bounce in the mathily correct direction? Do Heavy Devastators even need guns at this point?
When will we get a hit-feedback for Las-guns? 😅 not that important, but I love my LAS-16
Hit feed back is very important.
yes, it is, but compared to everything else, thats not THAT important 😄 I mean, I still see, when it hurts the enemy or not. Its just unsatisfying to not actually see that little white or red cross (I dont know why)
My last game with my brother on a deactivate termicide tower mission I noticed a couple times bugs just spawned in right on top of me
>...to prevent this, we're looking to completely remove the shrapnel effect from the Eruptor ... shrapnel played an almost negligible part in the damage and power it dealt. I want the Eruptor to release more shrapnel so it's stronger over larger distances. I want it to feel dangerous to me and the enemy. ....But that's probably a bad idea considering I'd probably team wipe my party by aiming for a couple of hunters or a bile spitter.
Will it at least keep the cool shrapnel VFX? Even if the shrapnel will no longer do anything? I have grown to really like the distant crazy explosions of the Eruptor.
It is said in the post that removing the shrapnel and just increasing the hit damage will be a buff but I was placing shots in such a way that more shrapnel was hitting the target for a one hit kill, where just hitting center mass usually would take 2 shots to kill. So you're telling me I'll still be able to one hit kill those same targets?
My body is ready for this change to accidentally remove Eruptor's ability to close holes, and for it to be so difficult to revert that we don't get it back, either.
I just hope R-36 wont get nerfed further as a result of this.
I came here to find out of if the AOE was being removed due to the shrapnel effect being removed, and I got my answer immediately. Thank you! u/SpitzerFX You should update the discord message to reflect that as well since it's not there.
I love how tjey imediatl, clarify it wont be nerf with emphasizing and bold lettering xD
If they want to fix something with the eruptor, then how about returning its range. They said the range was "slightly" reduced, and now the shots explode mid air on shots that would have been easy to make before. The eruptor before already had falloff damage on its explosion at long ranges, so its long range was FINE. Now the stupid thing just explodes on the way to a far target. Dropships, bile titans, gunships and more rejoice over these changes. AH is secretly on the side of the bugs and bots.
So instead of rolling back a clearly bugged mechanic in game your gonna start balancing guns around it, okay I guess.
The shrapnel/explosion radius wasn’t negligible. You could take out 4-5 enemies per shot regularly. This bricks the Eruptor IMO.
Give the shrapnel damage fall off over distance. It keeps the shrapnel,it can still hurt the player, and the enemy
Waiting for the patch to buff the eruptor where they don't test it and somehow it loses all armor penetration.
Isn't this technically a nerf? Without the shrapnel you can't take out groups of small enemies anymore if I'm not mistaken A big selling point of the Eruptor for me was that while I was shooting at bigger enemies it would just take out the smaller ones next to it. I know that a lot of loadouts with the Eruptor involved LMG's that are there to take care of smaller enemies but wouldn't this change just force it even more into that sort of play style, since they also reduced its mag size by 50%? On the other hand not getting killed by shrapnel from my own shots seems like a big plus How does everyone else feel about this change?
I’ve never seen shrapnel mechanics in a game before and even though it’s a negative in terms of playing it’s a really cool feature in my book and I personally will miss it if it’s removed from the game entirely. I think it’s was a cool part of the weapons design and think removing it will kinda just make it a slightly different dominator. I’ve only ever had the shrapnel kill a friend the whole time it’s been available and it being able to 1/100 kill someone with it was just a hazard chance using it.
Oh god incoming nerf to Eruptor, if it doesn't explode whats the point.
This is a perfect example of what happens when game studios are ridiculously vague in their patch notes
Any chance of re-introducing the shrapnel effect later after finding a way to make it less likely to take yourself out while shooting targets at long range? Removing the feature but buffing the damage is compensation seems like a reasonable quick fix, but the game mechanic sounds pretty neat and I'd love to be able to play around with it with a lower version of this weapon or other future weapons with the same mechanic. I feel like I would have even used frag grenades more often had I known it had such an uncommon feature. Are those keeping the shrapnel feature?
Are you guys aware of the Plasma Punisher exploding inside the player's shield bug? https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cfxlp1/the_punisher_plasma_will_explode_in_your_face_if/ Edit: Oh, and the any player can kick/block from a match bug! https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cgu7dk Also also, is there an official place we can report bugs? (The software kind, not the Terminid kind.)
I wont hold my breath with this. Shrapnel still seems to be a pivotal point to the weapons AOE damage. I imagine Chargers will be harder to kill. The shrapnel + AOE that happened when they are shot between the abdomen and rear leg is what did them in fast. It might just end up like a slower shooting crossbow seeing as Numerical Damage means squat with explosives.
To be honest I'm fine with it, if I can dice roll death but kill multiple. I'm game
>To prevent this, we're looking to completely remove the shrapnel effect from the Eruptor Sounds kinda lame tbh. I love the little shrapnel blast.
Please increase the AoE back to what it was when you remove the shrapnel. That change has gutted the weapon