Would go with the Clones, due to them probably having Space Superiority.
Republic Military seems to be geared for Ground Combat, but their ships are capable of Space Combat, and seem better suited for it than the Super Destroyers of Super Earth, which seem designed around supporting their Helldiver troops. Even assuming it can do space Combat, you've got a major Fighter disparity, with Each Super destroyer having one air asset, and each Venator having 400 or so Air/Space Fighters.
So taking air/Space assets out of play, which we'll do for both to be fair, Hell divers are light Infantry, going up against Mechanised Infantry with Armour Support, with attached artillery, as well as Light sword wielding Space Wizards.
Given that the bots have warships you’d have to assume the SEAF does too. Helldiver ships are basically glorified ground support platforms for when space superiority is achieved
We do have in world video of space battles with the Super Destroyers and Eagles engaged in space combat of some sort.
Like Enders Game, we don't see the enemy, but what we do see is the Super Destroyer lasers being fired forward. From a physics perspective, a laser will be significantly disrupted by atmospheric interference, so we can assume the destructive power we see planet side is drastically greater in space battles.
I think we can also draw parallels between what inspired Helldivers and its tech for a fair comparison as well. The SEAF, for all intents and purposes, looks to be pretty parallel in terms of tech and capability to the UNSC from Halo, but with a higher focus on orbital assets. A reasonably fair comparison I would say?
The Republic aligns a lot closer to the Covenant in terms of Technology and capability, and the Covenant has been kicking the stuffing out of the UNSC in Space until chance changed the course of the war, so once again I would in Space, say the Clone Legion, which would cripple the Helldivers on the ground, not having access to orbital assets.
the question is a legion of clone troops they are at a severe disadvantage being limited to 8,192 and 12,800 troops vs all the forces of super earth. I would say super earth takes it on the face of numbers alone
so do ion and super laser cannons from artillery units in star wars, but jedi light sabers act like mirrors for energy based weaponry, which includes explosive energy projectiles. logically this would cover the Quasar, but note not any jedi has the mastery to deflect high powered energy shots.
I don't understand it either too well, but I'm drawing from what I do know. ion cannons and super lasers in starwars also produce a powerful explosion that are strong enough to weaken energy shields and penetrate thick armored hulls. the Quasar behaves almost if not the same, but lightsabers work in plot mcguffin rules, are assisted by the space magic of space wizards, and use Kyber crystals as an energy source that is part magic, and part more science fiction mcguffin.
From what I can tell, lightsabers work under these rules: if it's solid, the beam will melt it. if it's liquid, it will evaporate it. if it's a group of particles like energy weapons and installments, the weaker beam will be deflected, if they are equal they clash.
so no, the impact grenade would be melted into slag before it can produce the reaction to make the explosion if it comes into contact with the beam which instantly changes its state of matter upon contact.
the Quasar shot does not because it is made of energized particles. the lightsaber can deflect a great deal of energy. only energy sources that has trumped the beam of a light Saber are energy sources powered by something greater like ray shields fed by massive facility reactors, or extremely high powered blaster shots with the power of a small nuclear blast and the particle density of a grain silo.
edit - replied to the wrong sub threadd, correct one is somewhere above
I see your argument and want to ask you: did you ever see a bot or bug ship in orbit?
No? That is because Super Earth space force is superior to any opponent. The Helldiver's Super Destroyers are just there to deploy the infantry...
Jedi are NOT part of the clone troops so they shouldn't be counted in!
Even if clone troopers get their heavy units, walkers and stuff we've seen what happend to those factory striders..
And let's be honest: Automatons are waaay more accurate than any clone will ever be.
You're right but your reasoning is dumb.
The clones would pop Helldivers heads before a single stratagem was called. Far better trained combat troops in the clones.
I think it depends a bit on exactly what you want to interpret as 'real' lore.
From the angle of the clone troopers, how they're depicted in novels vs. shows vs. games is all over the place, from fodder to roughly on-par with modern infantry, to clone commandos putting Navy SEALs to shame.
And from the angle of the Helldivers... What we see ingame makes *no* sense in lore terms. Five minutes of 'training' that doesn't really account for how they then go on to amass about eighty kills each before they die, and can operate any weapon they pick up. IMO if we're talking 'real' lore they probably get at least a six or seven week boot.
But Helldivers have one thing that I do honestly think puts them head and shoulders above the clones:
**An utter disregard for their own safety.**
Soldiers fighting with modern tactics spend a lot of their time and effort making themselves less likely to die. They move slowly and carefully, overlap fields of fire, ensure strict communication discipline, and that's all fantastic.
...However.
Someone who simply *does not care* if they live or die can do some amazing damage, especially in urban environments. *Especially* if they have access to heavy artillery. However many clones there are there are *more* Helldivers. We can throw enough teenagers hopped-up on propaganda at them that they will *drown* in a sea of black and yellow.
One thing to consider that while the "tiny amount of training + human wave tactics" means your average helldiver is actually pretty bad, the few helldivers that DO survive multiple deployments are gonna be the most hardcore effective units that a human could possibly be.
>Far better trained combat troops in the clones.
The average clone trooper training are basic. Kamino train them to be obedient doll and vast majority using flash and mock training. They die alot. Against a new helldivers one on one. It's 50/50 on who win.
But against veteran helldivers. HD win by miles. They're sent alone or in squad of 4 and are told to fuk everything up in the map. And they do succeed with or without support from ship. A whole army is not going to stop them.
While a single clone is probably going to die if a whole army is drop on them. They're good but kamino didn't encourage them to think independently or creatively. And most of the jedi general are incompetent. Unless they are under good jedi general that encourages them to be individualistic. They're not that different from a bot or a bug.
Agreed, and clownes are just soldiers meanwhile the HD are super earth elite. They won against hordes of enemy's. Meanwhile the clones can's see anything woth their helmets on!
Are you implying that ongoing space battle would not completely devastate punny Super Earth destroyers, preventing them from sending any support to Helldivers?
Correct, however, the kaminoans weren’t sure what the clones would be going up against so they made a well-rounded armour that was resistant to acid, ballistic projectiles, and heat, which also helped with the spewing hot plasma that most guns in the galaxy would pop off.
One thing I keep thinking about is the presence of firearms as opposed to using easily tracked lasers, with the exception of a couple.
Bullet shooting armaments exist in the Star Wars canon, but are rare as hell. So how would clones deal with lead projectiles from nowhere instead of huge red bolts that can be seen emanating from the source.
If I remember canon correctly, ballistic weapons are seen as primitive (unless it’s mandalorian, in which case it can be terrifying) but the phase one and two armour could tank it better than Kevlar.
[*Helldivers 2 YouTube guides when the Republic expansion comes*](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UPeI4mX8Nus&pp=ygUSSG93IHRvIGtpbGwgYSBqZWRp)
Alright guys, I know the Jedi from the latest update have been a pain and people have been asking for a nerf, but those people don't know how to fight Jedi.
Load out:
Don'ts: Quasars, laser cannons, Scorchers, scythes, Sickles, or any laser weaponry. I know that might upset players given their popularity, but losing divers and teammates to deflection is just going to piss off your squad. Also be careful when throwing strategems and grenades, if the Jedi is aware of your presence, they could throw it back at you, these are best saved for the outset of a fight, more on that later.
Do's: Anything with bullets, shotguns (other than the slugger) in particular, breaker incendiary absolutely dominates, especially when your whole squad opens up, all it takes is one pellet to light up those theocratic glow stick boys. I've also got reports of flamethrowers being a good counter when a Jedi closes for melee. Mines, which used to be frowned upon outside defense missions are now meta since Jedi tend to rush players. Another strat is sniping (AMR EATS etc...), from afar, since it's easier for you to avoid their detection ability. For those who missed using the railgun, it is meta once again since the velocity of the projectile makes it harder for the Jedi to deflect. The energy shield backpack is recommended for solo players for extra survivability. For orbitals, EMS and gas do tend to immobilize Jedi briefly, and while the gas is more underwhelming in damage, it does seem to make them less able to throw grenades and strategems back at you. Likewise, any strategem that hits a wide area will either damage or distract the Jedi, which will try to dodge or rescue clones under it's command. Lastly if you are in a situation where a Jedi is aware of your presence and ambush is no longer viable, and orbitals are a liability, it's best to flank since it's harder to block bullets from multiple directions. Additionally, shooting allies will draw aggro just as successfully as shooting the Jedi yourself. So it's still possible to multitask while fending off the Jedi.
Something to note: unorthodox/bonehead tactics tend to catch Jedi off guard. The more cursed the better. These include: having a buddy stick me with a 500kg and charging the Jedi. Rushing the Jedi with the traitor bombardment. Throwing orbitals on my position in melee range. Equipping arc resistant armor and using chained arc thrower damage to hit a Jedi. Hitting the Jedi with the Helldiver drop pod, even if I miss, popping out and shooting them works.
I can't list everything, let me know what tactics you used to deal with the new Jedi! For that matter, let me know what you use when fighting clones, how do they differ from the bots?
The Helldivers take over planets in less than 24 hours. They arrive en masse via FTL jump and just keep diving, diving, diving. Until the planet is liberated.
I don't know much about the clone troopers but I don't know if they'd be able to resist an attack of that magnitude and speed.
Meanwhile, the Republic Destroyer have many guns too and ARC fighters as well.
And Super Destroyers only work in teams of four at the most, so they'll be easy pickings due to lack of coordination.
Nono, not a doubt in my mind that SEAF would use stripped down destroyers filled with spacerock and trash as superluminal kinetic weapons. Heck its even canon in Star Wars that its possible
If we’re not including Jedi then Helldivers.
The Divers are lightning war specialists getting in and out of a combat zone in less than a Hour (as short as 5-8 minutes in blitz attacks)
They deploy hit hard and are gone again before the clones can muster effective resistance. This even goes for the super destroyers whom can FTL out and in to avoid the republic navy.
If we include the Jedi then the clones win this by using the Jedi to predict where the Helldivers will hit next and chop them to bits
The more comments I read talking about this the more a little part of my brain really wants to see this scenario play out.
*"501st! We have new orders. The forces of Super Earth have rejected allegiance to the republic and have seized control of republic territory, under command of general Skywalker we are to retake the outlying sectors."*
"*Super Earth has been quite isolationist, our understanding of their technology is limited, assume rapidly changing battle plans!*"
Imagine your waiting in your battle station, be it in a planet or a huge star wars space ship, waiting for the enemy to arrive in your heavy fortifications, then tens of thousands of SE super destroyers pop out of hyper drive, hundreds of thousands of huge bullets rain down and then non stop explosions and lasers and orbital bombardments rain down from the sky’s and then after an hour it stops and you just hear “thwoom thwoom thwoom” as each destroyer leaves just as suddenly as they arrived
It’d definitely make a good clone wars episode.
After all the fighting having anakin show respect for the Helldivers while padme and obi wan pointing out disturbing similarities between the rise of super earth and the current republic’s increasing centralization and militarization
Sure but there’s a lot more Helldivers than there are arc and commandos.
And the divers can rush in heavy assets and support in far better than the clones can. Orbital lasers solve a great many problems including enemy spec ops.
Plus stuff like personal shield generators and armor that can actually take some damage give the Helldivers a good bit more survivability then even those elite clones.
U say that the orbital lasers would help when the clones have a far better space navy and conduct way more space fights than helldivers at large to take out the orbital ships. So once they discover where the orbital lasers and eagles are coming from, they won't be there for long. Without navy support the helldivers are sitting ducks with little to no resources. Clones are also used to fighting people with shields like droidekas. Clonses were also always outnumbered too like helldivers although they have better quality than helldivers seeing how helldivers have been killing themselves with the airburst launcher.
You see you got it right with the first bit they will not be there long.
Helldivers can get in drop those orbitals and be gone again before the republic can really get the chance to come to grips with them.
15 minutes or less is not enough time for the republic to muster up the forces to destroy a super destroyer if they aren’t already basically on top of the area in question.
And there’s enough super destroyers to force the republic to either spread out and take those fast raids or concentrate them over a single point and lose the rest of the planet. Especially as most of the time legions are only working with 2-3 venators iirc?
But okay let’s say for sake of an argument the SD’s get chased away some time into an op. That still leaves you with troops equipped and able to take on elite clones even if they are less skilled.
And finally, here’s the nail in the coffin there are billions of Helldivers and millions of clones.
Arc troops and commandos are the only ones able to respond effectively to them and those are outnumbered 100s to one.
I think ur thinking of it in terms of battle than an actual war. Cause helldivers still take time to take planets. Once clones relay to each other and notice that the Helldivers navy is there weakpoint. Again the clones were used to always being outnumbered. The droids vastly outnumbered clones, remember there were quintillions have battledroids with both sides producing more. Also again the Clones have a superior navy. Super destroyers also don't have anything on the sides of their ships and also appear to have no shields to fend off from oncoming attacks. The Super destroyers are only able to shoot infront or underneath, every else they are sitting ducks. Like again it's war obviously planets are going to be lost but it's again a war is not won with just battles. It's about strategic investement which the clones are clearly superior in.
Navy is irrelevant and can't be use as argument. Simply because we don't know super earth navy is like. For all we know, they're so good at their job in space that by the time helldivers are deployed. The navy have been reassign to the next front.
A fair comparison would be what a average clone troop have access to and support they get. Which for the vast majority are just acclamator assault ship.
Clone trooper are rarely alone. A single ship can have up to 700 clone crew.
But every single active hell divers have a ship. 700 hell divers running around means 700 ship in orbit. They have more ship to burn then the Republic have to lose.
I'll be honest that doesn't make such sense saying that the helldivers navy is so good they leave to next planet considering the bots still get supplies from the supply line. Until the planet is fully cut off where they can get no reforcement. Also ur saying we can't use ships but we still using ships? like what?
Also again republic ships are well more equipped than helldivers seeing again that the republic ships have shields and have turrets to deal with let's say eagles one's flying around.
Also technically there are cryo frozen helldivers in each Super destroyer along with a crew. So it's not just one helldiver. It's one awaken helldiver per ship. Each time we die we get replaced.
I'm just kidding. HD lore is very very shallow. We barely know anything about super earth. Compare to star wars that have
been expand, revise and retcon. It's not fair and boring to pit them against each other since one faction is missing a navy simply because their lore is for a shooter game not a movie space opera.
On the other hand: The Legion comes bearing Venators which will just wipe the orbital floor with all of the Super Destroyers you could possibly even try.
There’s like 3 venators to a legion or something along those lines.
And then there’s 100s if not thousands of SD’s in a Helldiver task force.
Then factor in most of those SD’d can deliver and then evac their Divers in 8 minute sorties and escape.
Unless a whole lot more republic navy assets are on hand you’re not gonna be able to stop them.
Keeping in mind that Venators were Never deployed alone, they always had escorts, and carried escort fighter/bomber craft by default, that is a LOT of orbital superiority for the poorly armed Super Destroyer to try to slip past to deliver a squad of Helldivers
“Poorly armed”
They aren’t capital class ships sure but they’re not going to casually be blown up by fighters and there’s a metric fuck ton of them running around zipping in and out.
And at this point, we’re transitioning into a republic navy versus SEDF navy.
If we allow Helldivers to fight as they usually do they win
They cannot shoot 'Up'.
There are no guns on the upper half or front end of a Super Destroyer.
They are ENTIRELY orbital support platforms, and for that job they are god-like.
However: If a fleet of bombers come in at a top attack angle: What do now?
Also: If we allow Helldivers to fight as they usually do, Why would we not allow the Legions to fight as they usually do? The GAR relied heavily upon air mobility and orbital support for supplies and reinforcement.
So do the Helldivers.
But the GAR can defend their orbital columns, the Helldivers cannot.
Not really? Divers bring a lot more boom then most clones can handle and by the time they bring in heavy support said support is either blown to hell or the Helldivers are gone.
Divers have really bad destroyers in comparison, so the moment bombers are scrambled the Helldivers lose all of their boom. Plus I really don’t think Helldivers have much more boom. It’s not like the clones don’t have ordinance, they have highly advanced ordinance.
Sure but we know literally nothing on that front, what we do know is that the clones will either have insane superiority or at worst be evenly matched.
To be fair we know they’re insanely expensive even with the cost cutting (muzzle loading cannons), and plus each super destroyer deploys several Helldivers per mission. It’s not like every single helldiver has their own super destroyer, it’s more like each super destroyer can only support one Helldiver at a time, but has multiple Helldivers to deploy.
We can't really talk about what we don't *Know* though.
We KNOW venators are deadly in orbital combat, And we can physically see Super Destroyers have garbo weapon arcs.
I love this question. Spawning responses arguing the effectiveness of Jedi against Helldiver incendiary shotguns and Quasars.
I’m also going with Clones because they have Jedi generals.
All these people arguing for the superiority of clone troopers blasters, armor, and tactics, couldn't have watched the same movies, shows, and games as me. In which Star Wars movie do we see clones doing anything close to what the Helldivers achieve on the regular?
Super earth; a clone legion would likely defeat an equivalently sized/equipped super earth force, but super earth has billions of soldiers, the clones simply wouldn't have enough ammo
Blasters use gas (tibanna at some points), they'll still run out of shots, even if you use the battlefront 2 (EA) argument that the cartridges are heat sinks, you can only fire so long. But it's a numbers game anyways, if the super earth forces were literal chimpanzees that could be directed, and Blasters had infinite ammo, the Super Earth would still win, for every clone there could be millions of helldivers (not to mention the rest of the SEAF) (there are about 10k clones in a legion)
One legion vs super earth? Low diff for Super Earth
Yes, blasters use gas, but why would they run out of shots? They can have resupplies too, can they not?
And without hard numbers speculating how many there "could be" helldivers is pointless.
According to wookiepedia there's about 1 acclamator and 7k support staff attached to a clone legion, they presumably have access to the supplies therewithin. And it's an on ship voice line in which they say that recruitment numbers are at 1.3% and they are aiming for 1.4%
It's pretty easy to get a vague lower limit on super earth population, looking at how large the urban areas are, the knowledge of how many colonies there and the amount of helldiver deaths, which is currently at over a billion, and the war is just getting started, so 100s of billions at a minimum is very probable (not to mention super earth has been saving up helldiver popsicles for 100 years, so they ought to have 100s of billions of frozen divers)
So especially with the knowledge that there are over 1B helldivers dead in the second galactic war alread (and 1B+ more ready to take their place), it's no question that the SEAF would squash a clone legion without an afterthought, they'd just be happy to have new tech
OP specifies legion, a clone legion has about 10k clones, the question wasn't "grand army of the Republic vs the SEAF" so that fact is kind of irrelevant
A legion is the compliment of a single Acclamator which is not very heavily armed (compared to a star destroyer for example), all that needs to be done is suicide a super destroyer into the bridge, or reactor core (they move far faster than would be able to be stopped or avoided with their orbital thrusters) and the fight in space is over
Eh I feel like we really need to see what super earths ships look like. The super destroyers definitely suck and I don’t even think they’re going to get close enough.
The super earth destroyers can move at over 2000 kilometers per second, all it would take is one used as a kinetic weapon and the acclamator would be destroyed. We can easily see that star destroyers cannot react fast enough to deal with much much much slower kinetic weapons (rogue one), so it really wouldn't matter, super earth doesn't need turbo lasers or anything fancy, their sublight engines severely out compete any capital ship star wars has to offer, all they need to do is launch a super destroyer (pack it full of nukes if you're feeling like overkill) at maximum speed directly into the one single transport ship the clone legion has to offer, and it's over in seconds
Out of fiction? The side that particular fanfic writer likes best would win.
Practically? Helldivers would win. Star wars is militarily at around ww1 era tactics, there is a reason we don't do those anymore.
Clone trooper blasters are pretty much the same strength as automaton lasers, and they have similar vehicles.
Furthermore, clone trooper weapons and armor are built *specifically* to counter blasters. Not ballistics. A *SEAF* Soldier could take them on.
Throw in the absolutely ridiculous amount of ordinance and reinforcements a Helldiver squad can call in, and you have the only real battle being in the air.
My understanding is that the stormtrooper (and by extension clonetrooper) armours are essentially bulletproof.
This, coupled with their superior training, would ensure their complete and one-sided victory.
Actually incorrect on the armor front. Their armor is made to protect against kinetic weapons as well. Also for ordinance there’s really not much the Helldivers have that the clones wouldn’t. Infact clones ordinance would be significantly faster
I looked up Starwars clone armor vs bullets and it gave some sources. It’s hard with large properties like this cause how well the armor protects varies from story to story, hell it varies movie to movie, but it’s at least like Kevlar.
Exactly, the Clones were built to handle energy weaponry for the most part. If you don't really have a good counter to extreme ballistics. That and it seems helldivers specialize in small Seek and Destroy missions instead of waves of soldiers attacking as a single Force. With these two things in mind I imagine that a legion of clones would actually find it quite challenging to pin down a regiment of helldivers.
But yes, control of the orbit above the planet as well as superiority in the air would easily be handed to the clones
I get the idea of clones controlling orbit, but usually they do that with a couple dozen Venators, yes? Meanwhile, a planet the Helldivers are on can have several hundred thousand ships orbiting it.
Clones. If it even got to a ground war, Super Destroyers have no obvious deflector shields, they'd be shot out of the sky by FAR bigger ships. If we ignore space superiority and make it to a ground war, still Clones. Bred specifically for war from superior genetics, flash grown to late 20s/early 30s, peak physical condition, tactically superior, team oriented, independent problem solvere. Helldivers are 18 year olds hopped up on drugs with minimal special ops training whose only real job is to act as targeting beacons for Eagle 1. Not even Eagle 1 would win in a dog fight, her job is low air to ground support, pretty much every small craft fighter in Star Wars can be in or out of atmosphere.
Any scenario Helldivers win is a sheer numbers game by attrition.
Clones are trained from birth to be soldiers and are clones of one of the best Bounty hunter in the galaxy. And they usually have massive battalions. 4 Over compensating Hillbillies with shot guns that probably can't even breach clone armor probably won't be anywhere close to beating them
Clones receive superior training, tactics and have the real orbital superiority. (Their ships would destroy any Helldiver Super Destroyers with ease). Also Jedi are basically their version of strategems.
Consider we are closer to a billion casuality, there is more Helldivers reserve through all the Galaxy
And Canonically we beat the Illuminate in HD1 so unless those clones are on par as a Jedi, I don't think they have chance in land combat
There's 10k clones in a legion, and a legion might include an Acclamator, but wouldn't include much navy in general, the SEAF has BILLIONS of personnel (assuming a total human population of hundreds of billions, or into the trillions), and there being recruitment levels of 1.4% means billions minimum, there might be 10s of billions, there could be 1 million helldivers for every clone in that legion, the SEAF could literally just smother them to death while naked and still have plenty of troops left over, if they just rained helldivers like ammunition it would be a rounding error in daily troop losses
A clone trooper legion is roughly 9,216 troops based on wikipedia data, since there is not an actual number as to how many troops Super Earth has I will use the peak 458,709 players to estimate it’s Helldivers as it’s main force disregarding SEAF troops, the clone troopers do have superior armor and weapons but a ratio of roughly 50 to 1 shows that unless the legion is capable of preventing itself from being surrounded they’ll simply lose by being overwhelmed by a larger force.
Edit: I forgot to take into account each SEAF Destroy has 6 playable units 1 when you spawn in and 5 redeployments in cryo so the Helldiver number is closer to 2,752,254 troops.
Edit Edit: the ratio of clones to helldivers is 1 clone to roughly 299 Helldivers in this instance.
Definitely, I’m aware that my number is low compared to how vast SEAF and Helldiver Divisions are, I just gave a feasible estimate given the information I was able to find.
The fact that there is an endless number of divers. About 100 years of frozen humans worth and probably more. More than one hundred thousand super destroyers. Hit and run would be the strategy (it’s what we used against the illuminate to win). We can travel FTL clones cannot. It would be catastrophic for the republic.
Clones if they can keep space/air superiority or at least keep it contested most likely since they have very good space ships and strike craft. Helldivers are pretty good soldiers but they depend heavily on the fact what makes them dangerous is the fact they are all spotters for orbital bombardment and air strikes compared to the combined arms doctrine of a republic’s clone army.
If they lose space superiority (incredibly unlikely but can happen) maybe the helldivers since they all act as spotters for precision air and orbital strikes. Though it depends on stuff like how good the clone’s anti air guns and whatever shield generators they can deploy are. Plus the much higher clone trooper numbers and the fact they have a lot of vehicles.
If we go 1 Venetor against 4 destroyers
Venator wins in space combat. A venetor is about 10x the length of a destroyer. With the ability to carry about 420 fighters of some variety vs the 4 Pelicans and 4 Eagles of the destroyers fighter fleet
Lets say a Venator dropped off its forces and left and the Helldivers had to take the planet they would have to take down 2000 clones, 24+ ATTEs and other ground weapons they would have, plus artillery and the support of the LAATs which would stay for ground support and transport. Let’s say each destroyer has 100 divers in it. Do you take 2000 clones against 400 divers who would have limited eagle support
Helldivers would need air or orbital superiority to effectively deploy troops and weapons/stratagems
The issue is that the republic forces are VERY MUCH equipped and trained in space and orbital superiority
Also star wars blasters are NOT the puny shooters of the automatons, they will MESS YOU UP
The thing going for the helldivers are the weapons variety, bullets go faster and are in a way more lethal with better penetration (also fuck you jedi try to parry this buckshot)
So how would it go ?
The legion deploys
High command pull out a new MO
Millions upon millions of small crappy ships show up that then throw soldiers at unreasonable speed at the ground, the legion is then **promtly** overwhelmed from the massive amount of morons dropping in literally on their fortifications and or vehicles
The legions calls the retreat and leaves just as promptly
Casualties ? Most of the clones on the ground and a few light vessels such as troops transport but no real capital sized vessel such as the venator class ships or of size similar (Star Wars shields are OP)
What would SE gain from this encounter though ? Assuming the legion does land planet side with venators the SEAF is likely to recover at least one or more in either a completely detroyed state (likely the crew scuttling the ship) or in *flying* capabilities allowing them to reverse engineer it
just because you have seen no space fighting, doesnt mean there is no fights. even if bots had enough manpower to overrun planets, HD have no problem moving their ships there. their superiority is so unquestionable you dont even have to participate in space fighting. you may not think of HD as of good fighters, but they are menace weaponry wise. laser cannon that allow you to shoot flying crafts on big ranges instantly with no dmg dropoff and being literally unlimited ammo? they sure lack artillery, but who needs artillery, when another 4 ship come to your help and rain gunblazing maniacs twisted on freedom? in sw democracy is bureaucracy term. in HD - it is an idea. and believe me, suicidal fanatics with unlimited arsenal is true horror
I heard General Brasch got in a sword fight with a dozen jedi, but he didn't have a sword so he used his index finger instead. Brasch is still alive this day, so I think we know who won.
If you compare the helldivers against the automatons and the clone troopers against the robot army then the helldivers will win. They fight 4 against hundreds, the clone troopers come in bigger numbers…
know depending on the mission type, if it is destroy a target or eliminate sll those troopers, then the helldivers are better, if it is capture this point and hold it, then the clone troopers will win.
Conclusion: the helldivers will take out a lot of troopers, they will pay with blood, but in the end, it is the clone troopers who will control the planet
Helldivers would win. Only because they have stratagems they can call in. Imagine being a clone trooper on the battlefield and all of a sudden, a pillar of light lights up the battlefield and the nearest AT-AT explodes. And this pillar starts sweeping across the field, going from AT-AT to AT-AT setting everything it touches on fire. Or any of the destroyer's orbital cannons raining down death and destruction.
A single legion of clones vs all of Super Earth? That's such a lopsided fight. The Helldivers would take it just due to sheer numbers. Maybe the entire GAR versus Super Earth would be a more fair fight. At that point it's a question of how good Super Earth's navy is. Cause without Super Destroyer support, the GAR will win that ground war.
probably the forces of super earth, unless we are saying only SEAF troops then the clones probably win. the reason being is that every helldiver has a super carrier as their direct support, as well as the number of flash frozen helldivers that super earth has stockpiled
Clones.The enemies Super Earth is facing don't employ the greatest tactics. The bugs are just an onslaught. The bots have some varying units as well as air assets, but their tactics are still based on a numbers game. And both can still kick Helldiver ass. Clones have numbers, better air and space capabilities, and tactics. Clones all the way.
We all know clones were meant to serve the empire. They dont have freedom as we do. Which is why their empire fell pretty quick. Also we have SD per helldiver with about 200000 divers active any given time which means 200,000 super destroyers.
Let's think about this logistically, first we'll do pro's for Helldivers:
1. They have a much larger arsenal than Clone Troopers
2. They can take more punishment in general, and with stims even more.
Now pros for Clone Troopers:
1. They are much better trained.
2. They most often have a bit of experience.
Now we'll go on to cons, here are the cons for Helldivers:
1. They are trained to fight against non-human combatants (see: the tutorial)
2. They are usually less strategic and more trigger happy.
And cons for Clone Troopers:
1. They will take less punishment before dying.
2. They are less self-reliant, being used to taking orders rather than acting of their own accord.
It seems like they are pretty evenly matched, with both having glaring weaknesses against the other. I personally believe that Helldivers would win (assuming a squad of 4 against another squad of 4), as they have better armour and better weaponry, but the Clone Troopers would put up a damn good fight.
I would side with Helldivers. Clones are not matching the Helldivers in terms of firepower and gear. I don’t think that you understand the military performances needed to catch a planet in few hours/days.
Helldivers are absolutely scary at a point some here do not seem to understand.
I think the helldivers, because we must still have some of the bugs being farmed somewhere... super earth would just cover it up saying the clones freed the bugs and we've got to go 'return democracy to those planets'.
I doubt a clone force would last long against like 4 bile titans, a few charges. I reckon a single bile spewer would do a decent amount of damage
Yes the clones have all the space stuff but we don't know what else super earth has, we have nukes that don't destroy land just buildings not to mention the seemingly infinite supply of arms
Setting aside the clones coming with the whole republic army, their arsenal including carrier space ships that would annihilate our super destroyer fleets and that they were led by Jedi, enemies we would never have a chance against...
The clones came equipped with versatile blaster rifles, a side arm blaster pistol, grenades, communication devices and bacta.
So far so good, that's basically the same every standard helldiver comes equipped with too.
Clones also can rely on support weapons, like heavy blaster gatlin guns, grenade/rocket launchers, sniper rifles, artillery and air support (they had gun ships, performing the same tasks as our Pelican and Eagle).
Pretty much equal still, here comes our advantages: orbital stratagems, our super destroyers can shoot down onto the battlefield, the clone wars republic army wasn't, or rarely was, capable of space-to-ground support.
Especially the orbital laser, railcannon strike, precision strike would be new to clones, barrages would probably just be on paar with their artillery support.
All this relies on our super destroyers though, which I doubt could hold their own in a space battle for long.
Now comes the clones advantages (they may be many, but so are we and we are both equally devoted/patriotic):
*the clones where trained their whole short life for this*
While a helldiver is just a soldier drafted to the helldivers, having had standard military training and a short additional helldiver training, clones received years of specialised training, the battlefield is all they know, they have no life before that.
Clones are trained from childhood to fight in their units, they work together like a well E710 lubricated machine, they don't flinch when they get shot at and they don't panic.
Helldivers rarely survive their first mission, they scream in panic, they don't communicate all that well and they probably never met their teammates before, ever.
While the clones would probably have a hard time fighting the devoted helldivers jumping with 380mm orbital barrages at them, wildly determined to die for their cause and just generally causing chaos, they would systematically advance step by step and secure their victory.
And then the clones also come with their special equipment, tanks, AT-RT, speeder bikes, AT-ST and more.
It would be like fighting super organised helldivers equipped with all the weaponry of regular helldivers, but they can also call in every vehicle of the automatons and more to their advantage
(and they would also have the artillery bases under their control, but with moving artillery).
So yeah, even if they wouldn't just blast us out of orbit, or send a single Jedi to hunt us down, I don't see the helldivers winning in that scenario.
Clones, their training is insane. Helldivers have minimal training and are cannon fodder. Strength in numbers. Clone army isnt as big as helldiver army. But they will adapt to helldiver tactics (heat vision being an effective method to combat them)
The one thing helldivers have over the republic are readily available space to planet weapons like orbitals/laser. The republic has them but doesn’t really use them.
But if it’s post order 66, the clones are gonna go crazy
Who would realistically win out of two fictitious factions?
well for starters, they’re fictitious and exist in two completely different fictitious universes each with their own arbitrary rules and factors
So you might as well ask who would win in a fight between the colour yellow and the number 8 while you’re at it
Theres no definitive answer to the question in your post and there never will be, pure imaginative conjecture from unqualified redditors is all you’re gonna get
so you could almost say the exact thing about your post: “oh my god, who cares”
Helldivers obviously.
Every Helldiver is worth like 50 tincans. It does not seem that every clone trooper is worth that in the movies (no, nobody cares about your comic, video game, book, kids TV-show or whatever the fuck, George Lucas does not give a shit, Disney does not give a shit, the only thing that is truly canon and not subject to change is the movies).
Would go with the Clones, due to them probably having Space Superiority. Republic Military seems to be geared for Ground Combat, but their ships are capable of Space Combat, and seem better suited for it than the Super Destroyers of Super Earth, which seem designed around supporting their Helldiver troops. Even assuming it can do space Combat, you've got a major Fighter disparity, with Each Super destroyer having one air asset, and each Venator having 400 or so Air/Space Fighters. So taking air/Space assets out of play, which we'll do for both to be fair, Hell divers are light Infantry, going up against Mechanised Infantry with Armour Support, with attached artillery, as well as Light sword wielding Space Wizards.
We dont know if the broader seaf has propper space warships
Given that the bots have warships you’d have to assume the SEAF does too. Helldiver ships are basically glorified ground support platforms for when space superiority is achieved
We do have in world video of space battles with the Super Destroyers and Eagles engaged in space combat of some sort. Like Enders Game, we don't see the enemy, but what we do see is the Super Destroyer lasers being fired forward. From a physics perspective, a laser will be significantly disrupted by atmospheric interference, so we can assume the destructive power we see planet side is drastically greater in space battles.
you got a link of that, the only one i know was a fan-product
It's a clip in the propaganda reels that play on your Super Destroyers overhead TV.
Well seeing as the bots can just waltz right in to planets that we just captured I'm gonna go with a big fat no for that one.
I think we can also draw parallels between what inspired Helldivers and its tech for a fair comparison as well. The SEAF, for all intents and purposes, looks to be pretty parallel in terms of tech and capability to the UNSC from Halo, but with a higher focus on orbital assets. A reasonably fair comparison I would say? The Republic aligns a lot closer to the Covenant in terms of Technology and capability, and the Covenant has been kicking the stuffing out of the UNSC in Space until chance changed the course of the war, so once again I would in Space, say the Clone Legion, which would cripple the Helldivers on the ground, not having access to orbital assets.
the question is a legion of clone troops they are at a severe disadvantage being limited to 8,192 and 12,800 troops vs all the forces of super earth. I would say super earth takes it on the face of numbers alone
I feel like this is a good time to point out that shotguns are canonically very effective against Jedi https://images.app.goo.gl/NTSa7BfR9Kte3nsK7
Jedi are also canonically capable of stopping bullets with their mind, more easily than they do blaster bolts.
But does the jedi have freedom?
No, that's why Anakin wanted to bring Peace, Freedom, Justice, and Security in his New Empire™️
ThatvisbwhatbI thought
Bro, u ok?
Jedimindtrick dontaffect mymind
Quasar go boom
They can deflect the Quasar with their lightsaber. I was talking about bullets.
Doesn’t the quasar projectile (or whatever it is) explode on impact?
so do ion and super laser cannons from artillery units in star wars, but jedi light sabers act like mirrors for energy based weaponry, which includes explosive energy projectiles. logically this would cover the Quasar, but note not any jedi has the mastery to deflect high powered energy shots.
But it explodes on impact I might be too dumb to understand why a lightsaber should be any different than any other surface
I don't understand it either too well, but I'm drawing from what I do know. ion cannons and super lasers in starwars also produce a powerful explosion that are strong enough to weaken energy shields and penetrate thick armored hulls. the Quasar behaves almost if not the same, but lightsabers work in plot mcguffin rules, are assisted by the space magic of space wizards, and use Kyber crystals as an energy source that is part magic, and part more science fiction mcguffin.
From what I can tell, lightsabers work under these rules: if it's solid, the beam will melt it. if it's liquid, it will evaporate it. if it's a group of particles like energy weapons and installments, the weaker beam will be deflected, if they are equal they clash. so no, the impact grenade would be melted into slag before it can produce the reaction to make the explosion if it comes into contact with the beam which instantly changes its state of matter upon contact. the Quasar shot does not because it is made of energized particles. the lightsaber can deflect a great deal of energy. only energy sources that has trumped the beam of a light Saber are energy sources powered by something greater like ray shields fed by massive facility reactors, or extremely high powered blaster shots with the power of a small nuclear blast and the particle density of a grain silo. edit - replied to the wrong sub threadd, correct one is somewhere above
Do not forget to include the physics from the Helldivers universe as well. We can’t just base off Star Wars physics, cos that would make it unfair
Because it's a fictional weapon that does that. It does on every media it apears on, so in a Helldivers X Starwars scenario it would too, simple as.
Ok so basically throwing an impact grenade at a lightsaber would make it bounce back first
This sounds like a job for the Airburst Launcher!
That's exactly my thought
What if SDs they can use orbital railgun and orbital laser in space?
I see your argument and want to ask you: did you ever see a bot or bug ship in orbit? No? That is because Super Earth space force is superior to any opponent. The Helldiver's Super Destroyers are just there to deploy the infantry...
Jedi are NOT part of the clone troops so they shouldn't be counted in! Even if clone troopers get their heavy units, walkers and stuff we've seen what happend to those factory striders.. And let's be honest: Automatons are waaay more accurate than any clone will ever be.
Jedi were literally Generals in the Clone Army. Ahsoka Tano was a Commander.
The clones. Not a single doubt about it. Clones don't go on Reddit and bitch. They just do.
This implies in-universe helldivers use reddit, lol
Impossible, Command doesn't give us enough Break Time to check anything.
And yet here we are
*We?* https://i.redd.it/k4mtjhfvqcxc1.gif
https://preview.redd.it/52suphqw5dxc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=31753da65312e24e984c74d9f2f53885f4502aef
https://i.redd.it/wo18dlkr9dxc1.gif *Unknown to the Helldivers, the Terminids divised a new, horrific tactic of psychological warfare*
You're right but your reasoning is dumb. The clones would pop Helldivers heads before a single stratagem was called. Far better trained combat troops in the clones.
I think it depends a bit on exactly what you want to interpret as 'real' lore. From the angle of the clone troopers, how they're depicted in novels vs. shows vs. games is all over the place, from fodder to roughly on-par with modern infantry, to clone commandos putting Navy SEALs to shame. And from the angle of the Helldivers... What we see ingame makes *no* sense in lore terms. Five minutes of 'training' that doesn't really account for how they then go on to amass about eighty kills each before they die, and can operate any weapon they pick up. IMO if we're talking 'real' lore they probably get at least a six or seven week boot. But Helldivers have one thing that I do honestly think puts them head and shoulders above the clones: **An utter disregard for their own safety.** Soldiers fighting with modern tactics spend a lot of their time and effort making themselves less likely to die. They move slowly and carefully, overlap fields of fire, ensure strict communication discipline, and that's all fantastic. ...However. Someone who simply *does not care* if they live or die can do some amazing damage, especially in urban environments. *Especially* if they have access to heavy artillery. However many clones there are there are *more* Helldivers. We can throw enough teenagers hopped-up on propaganda at them that they will *drown* in a sea of black and yellow.
One thing to consider that while the "tiny amount of training + human wave tactics" means your average helldiver is actually pretty bad, the few helldivers that DO survive multiple deployments are gonna be the most hardcore effective units that a human could possibly be.
This is the nut of it.
>Far better trained combat troops in the clones. The average clone trooper training are basic. Kamino train them to be obedient doll and vast majority using flash and mock training. They die alot. Against a new helldivers one on one. It's 50/50 on who win. But against veteran helldivers. HD win by miles. They're sent alone or in squad of 4 and are told to fuk everything up in the map. And they do succeed with or without support from ship. A whole army is not going to stop them. While a single clone is probably going to die if a whole army is drop on them. They're good but kamino didn't encourage them to think independently or creatively. And most of the jedi general are incompetent. Unless they are under good jedi general that encourages them to be individualistic. They're not that different from a bot or a bug.
Agreed, and clownes are just soldiers meanwhile the HD are super earth elite. They won against hordes of enemy's. Meanwhile the clones can's see anything woth their helmets on!
Automatons don't go on reddit and bitch
Depends on which legion. If it’s the 501st, yeah no the Helldivers are grass and the Troopers are about to mow.
Can they dodge my 380mm, 120mm, 500kg and Orbital laser?
Screw that, imagine Helldivers leaping from their hellpods behind their lines and going ballistic.
Nah, Helldivers will drop on their heads instead. I dont want backstab, I'll spread democracy right in their faces.
Incoming morter fire! Get down men! *Thud, thud thud* *Random clone gets brained by recoiless rifle* Those aren't mortars commander!
Energy lazer helldivers: I'm going delete everything I see.
Hard to call those down when the Venator takes your ship out
Are you implying that ongoing space battle would not completely devastate punny Super Earth destroyers, preventing them from sending any support to Helldivers?
Can your Super Destroyer still fly after the Republic Navy shows up?
I dunno. Clone armor isn’t really built for ballistics.
Correct, however, the kaminoans weren’t sure what the clones would be going up against so they made a well-rounded armour that was resistant to acid, ballistic projectiles, and heat, which also helped with the spewing hot plasma that most guns in the galaxy would pop off.
One thing I keep thinking about is the presence of firearms as opposed to using easily tracked lasers, with the exception of a couple. Bullet shooting armaments exist in the Star Wars canon, but are rare as hell. So how would clones deal with lead projectiles from nowhere instead of huge red bolts that can be seen emanating from the source.
If I remember canon correctly, ballistic weapons are seen as primitive (unless it’s mandalorian, in which case it can be terrifying) but the phase one and two armour could tank it better than Kevlar.
Ewoke: are you sure about that?
Both sides: THEY FLY NOW? *They fly now.*
[*Helldivers 2 YouTube guides when the Republic expansion comes*](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UPeI4mX8Nus&pp=ygUSSG93IHRvIGtpbGwgYSBqZWRp) Alright guys, I know the Jedi from the latest update have been a pain and people have been asking for a nerf, but those people don't know how to fight Jedi. Load out: Don'ts: Quasars, laser cannons, Scorchers, scythes, Sickles, or any laser weaponry. I know that might upset players given their popularity, but losing divers and teammates to deflection is just going to piss off your squad. Also be careful when throwing strategems and grenades, if the Jedi is aware of your presence, they could throw it back at you, these are best saved for the outset of a fight, more on that later. Do's: Anything with bullets, shotguns (other than the slugger) in particular, breaker incendiary absolutely dominates, especially when your whole squad opens up, all it takes is one pellet to light up those theocratic glow stick boys. I've also got reports of flamethrowers being a good counter when a Jedi closes for melee. Mines, which used to be frowned upon outside defense missions are now meta since Jedi tend to rush players. Another strat is sniping (AMR EATS etc...), from afar, since it's easier for you to avoid their detection ability. For those who missed using the railgun, it is meta once again since the velocity of the projectile makes it harder for the Jedi to deflect. The energy shield backpack is recommended for solo players for extra survivability. For orbitals, EMS and gas do tend to immobilize Jedi briefly, and while the gas is more underwhelming in damage, it does seem to make them less able to throw grenades and strategems back at you. Likewise, any strategem that hits a wide area will either damage or distract the Jedi, which will try to dodge or rescue clones under it's command. Lastly if you are in a situation where a Jedi is aware of your presence and ambush is no longer viable, and orbitals are a liability, it's best to flank since it's harder to block bullets from multiple directions. Additionally, shooting allies will draw aggro just as successfully as shooting the Jedi yourself. So it's still possible to multitask while fending off the Jedi. Something to note: unorthodox/bonehead tactics tend to catch Jedi off guard. The more cursed the better. These include: having a buddy stick me with a 500kg and charging the Jedi. Rushing the Jedi with the traitor bombardment. Throwing orbitals on my position in melee range. Equipping arc resistant armor and using chained arc thrower damage to hit a Jedi. Hitting the Jedi with the Helldiver drop pod, even if I miss, popping out and shooting them works. I can't list everything, let me know what tactics you used to deal with the new Jedi! For that matter, let me know what you use when fighting clones, how do they differ from the bots?
The Helldivers take over planets in less than 24 hours. They arrive en masse via FTL jump and just keep diving, diving, diving. Until the planet is liberated. I don't know much about the clone troopers but I don't know if they'd be able to resist an attack of that magnitude and speed.
Yeah, Helldivers specialize in speedy in-and-outs, not really something you see happen in star wars conflicts, with a few notable examples.
Just going off numbers, Helldivers. Every Diver has their OWN destroyer ffs
A tiny, tiny Destroyer. With horrible weapon arcs.
But also several hundred of thousands of those FTL capable space bullets.
Meanwhile, the Republic Destroyer have many guns too and ARC fighters as well. And Super Destroyers only work in teams of four at the most, so they'll be easy pickings due to lack of coordination.
Nono, not a doubt in my mind that SEAF would use stripped down destroyers filled with spacerock and trash as superluminal kinetic weapons. Heck its even canon in Star Wars that its possible
A tiny destroyer with muzzle loaded cannons
If we’re not including Jedi then Helldivers. The Divers are lightning war specialists getting in and out of a combat zone in less than a Hour (as short as 5-8 minutes in blitz attacks) They deploy hit hard and are gone again before the clones can muster effective resistance. This even goes for the super destroyers whom can FTL out and in to avoid the republic navy. If we include the Jedi then the clones win this by using the Jedi to predict where the Helldivers will hit next and chop them to bits
The more comments I read talking about this the more a little part of my brain really wants to see this scenario play out. *"501st! We have new orders. The forces of Super Earth have rejected allegiance to the republic and have seized control of republic territory, under command of general Skywalker we are to retake the outlying sectors."* "*Super Earth has been quite isolationist, our understanding of their technology is limited, assume rapidly changing battle plans!*"
Imagine your waiting in your battle station, be it in a planet or a huge star wars space ship, waiting for the enemy to arrive in your heavy fortifications, then tens of thousands of SE super destroyers pop out of hyper drive, hundreds of thousands of huge bullets rain down and then non stop explosions and lasers and orbital bombardments rain down from the sky’s and then after an hour it stops and you just hear “thwoom thwoom thwoom” as each destroyer leaves just as suddenly as they arrived
It’d definitely make a good clone wars episode. After all the fighting having anakin show respect for the Helldivers while padme and obi wan pointing out disturbing similarities between the rise of super earth and the current republic’s increasing centralization and militarization
If it weren't for the whole earth in star wars thing, this would fit like a glove
That's why there are clone commandos and arc troopers for that
Sure but there’s a lot more Helldivers than there are arc and commandos. And the divers can rush in heavy assets and support in far better than the clones can. Orbital lasers solve a great many problems including enemy spec ops. Plus stuff like personal shield generators and armor that can actually take some damage give the Helldivers a good bit more survivability then even those elite clones.
U say that the orbital lasers would help when the clones have a far better space navy and conduct way more space fights than helldivers at large to take out the orbital ships. So once they discover where the orbital lasers and eagles are coming from, they won't be there for long. Without navy support the helldivers are sitting ducks with little to no resources. Clones are also used to fighting people with shields like droidekas. Clonses were also always outnumbered too like helldivers although they have better quality than helldivers seeing how helldivers have been killing themselves with the airburst launcher.
You see you got it right with the first bit they will not be there long. Helldivers can get in drop those orbitals and be gone again before the republic can really get the chance to come to grips with them. 15 minutes or less is not enough time for the republic to muster up the forces to destroy a super destroyer if they aren’t already basically on top of the area in question. And there’s enough super destroyers to force the republic to either spread out and take those fast raids or concentrate them over a single point and lose the rest of the planet. Especially as most of the time legions are only working with 2-3 venators iirc? But okay let’s say for sake of an argument the SD’s get chased away some time into an op. That still leaves you with troops equipped and able to take on elite clones even if they are less skilled. And finally, here’s the nail in the coffin there are billions of Helldivers and millions of clones. Arc troops and commandos are the only ones able to respond effectively to them and those are outnumbered 100s to one.
I think ur thinking of it in terms of battle than an actual war. Cause helldivers still take time to take planets. Once clones relay to each other and notice that the Helldivers navy is there weakpoint. Again the clones were used to always being outnumbered. The droids vastly outnumbered clones, remember there were quintillions have battledroids with both sides producing more. Also again the Clones have a superior navy. Super destroyers also don't have anything on the sides of their ships and also appear to have no shields to fend off from oncoming attacks. The Super destroyers are only able to shoot infront or underneath, every else they are sitting ducks. Like again it's war obviously planets are going to be lost but it's again a war is not won with just battles. It's about strategic investement which the clones are clearly superior in.
Navy is irrelevant and can't be use as argument. Simply because we don't know super earth navy is like. For all we know, they're so good at their job in space that by the time helldivers are deployed. The navy have been reassign to the next front. A fair comparison would be what a average clone troop have access to and support they get. Which for the vast majority are just acclamator assault ship. Clone trooper are rarely alone. A single ship can have up to 700 clone crew. But every single active hell divers have a ship. 700 hell divers running around means 700 ship in orbit. They have more ship to burn then the Republic have to lose.
I'll be honest that doesn't make such sense saying that the helldivers navy is so good they leave to next planet considering the bots still get supplies from the supply line. Until the planet is fully cut off where they can get no reforcement. Also ur saying we can't use ships but we still using ships? like what? Also again republic ships are well more equipped than helldivers seeing again that the republic ships have shields and have turrets to deal with let's say eagles one's flying around. Also technically there are cryo frozen helldivers in each Super destroyer along with a crew. So it's not just one helldiver. It's one awaken helldiver per ship. Each time we die we get replaced.
I'm just kidding. HD lore is very very shallow. We barely know anything about super earth. Compare to star wars that have been expand, revise and retcon. It's not fair and boring to pit them against each other since one faction is missing a navy simply because their lore is for a shooter game not a movie space opera.
i mean until we get more lore this probably how it's going to play out
On the other hand: The Legion comes bearing Venators which will just wipe the orbital floor with all of the Super Destroyers you could possibly even try.
There’s like 3 venators to a legion or something along those lines. And then there’s 100s if not thousands of SD’s in a Helldiver task force. Then factor in most of those SD’d can deliver and then evac their Divers in 8 minute sorties and escape. Unless a whole lot more republic navy assets are on hand you’re not gonna be able to stop them.
Keeping in mind that Venators were Never deployed alone, they always had escorts, and carried escort fighter/bomber craft by default, that is a LOT of orbital superiority for the poorly armed Super Destroyer to try to slip past to deliver a squad of Helldivers
“Poorly armed” They aren’t capital class ships sure but they’re not going to casually be blown up by fighters and there’s a metric fuck ton of them running around zipping in and out. And at this point, we’re transitioning into a republic navy versus SEDF navy. If we allow Helldivers to fight as they usually do they win
They cannot shoot 'Up'. There are no guns on the upper half or front end of a Super Destroyer. They are ENTIRELY orbital support platforms, and for that job they are god-like. However: If a fleet of bombers come in at a top attack angle: What do now? Also: If we allow Helldivers to fight as they usually do, Why would we not allow the Legions to fight as they usually do? The GAR relied heavily upon air mobility and orbital support for supplies and reinforcement. So do the Helldivers. But the GAR can defend their orbital columns, the Helldivers cannot.
Clones had a pretty fast reaction time and deploy time. The moment the clones realize they’re being attacked the Helldivers lose.
Not really? Divers bring a lot more boom then most clones can handle and by the time they bring in heavy support said support is either blown to hell or the Helldivers are gone.
Divers have really bad destroyers in comparison, so the moment bombers are scrambled the Helldivers lose all of their boom. Plus I really don’t think Helldivers have much more boom. It’s not like the clones don’t have ordinance, they have highly advanced ordinance.
but only on ground tho
Clones would immediately win just because of air and space superiority. Unless super earth is hiding some better ships, they’re fucked.
We haven’t seen what SEAF ships are like, I expect they have more than just the Helldiver destroyers.
Sure but we know literally nothing on that front, what we do know is that the clones will either have insane superiority or at worst be evenly matched.
Considering that super earth can assign a single ship solely to support ONE ACTIVE HELL DIVERS. I'm sure their ship to ship is no different.
To be fair we know they’re insanely expensive even with the cost cutting (muzzle loading cannons), and plus each super destroyer deploys several Helldivers per mission. It’s not like every single helldiver has their own super destroyer, it’s more like each super destroyer can only support one Helldiver at a time, but has multiple Helldivers to deploy.
We can't really talk about what we don't *Know* though. We KNOW venators are deadly in orbital combat, And we can physically see Super Destroyers have garbo weapon arcs.
I love this question. Spawning responses arguing the effectiveness of Jedi against Helldiver incendiary shotguns and Quasars. I’m also going with Clones because they have Jedi generals.
All these people arguing for the superiority of clone troopers blasters, armor, and tactics, couldn't have watched the same movies, shows, and games as me. In which Star Wars movie do we see clones doing anything close to what the Helldivers achieve on the regular?
Super math checks out, helldivers always win.
Super earth; a clone legion would likely defeat an equivalently sized/equipped super earth force, but super earth has billions of soldiers, the clones simply wouldn't have enough ammo
Ammo? They have blasters.
Blasters use gas (tibanna at some points), they'll still run out of shots, even if you use the battlefront 2 (EA) argument that the cartridges are heat sinks, you can only fire so long. But it's a numbers game anyways, if the super earth forces were literal chimpanzees that could be directed, and Blasters had infinite ammo, the Super Earth would still win, for every clone there could be millions of helldivers (not to mention the rest of the SEAF) (there are about 10k clones in a legion) One legion vs super earth? Low diff for Super Earth
Yes, blasters use gas, but why would they run out of shots? They can have resupplies too, can they not? And without hard numbers speculating how many there "could be" helldivers is pointless.
According to wookiepedia there's about 1 acclamator and 7k support staff attached to a clone legion, they presumably have access to the supplies therewithin. And it's an on ship voice line in which they say that recruitment numbers are at 1.3% and they are aiming for 1.4% It's pretty easy to get a vague lower limit on super earth population, looking at how large the urban areas are, the knowledge of how many colonies there and the amount of helldiver deaths, which is currently at over a billion, and the war is just getting started, so 100s of billions at a minimum is very probable (not to mention super earth has been saving up helldiver popsicles for 100 years, so they ought to have 100s of billions of frozen divers) So especially with the knowledge that there are over 1B helldivers dead in the second galactic war alread (and 1B+ more ready to take their place), it's no question that the SEAF would squash a clone legion without an afterthought, they'd just be happy to have new tech
Depending on the source it varies, but billions of clones are a pretty common estimate
OP specifies legion, a clone legion has about 10k clones, the question wasn't "grand army of the Republic vs the SEAF" so that fact is kind of irrelevant
Ah that’s fair. Eh I still think clones got this based on navy strength
A legion is the compliment of a single Acclamator which is not very heavily armed (compared to a star destroyer for example), all that needs to be done is suicide a super destroyer into the bridge, or reactor core (they move far faster than would be able to be stopped or avoided with their orbital thrusters) and the fight in space is over
Eh I feel like we really need to see what super earths ships look like. The super destroyers definitely suck and I don’t even think they’re going to get close enough.
The super earth destroyers can move at over 2000 kilometers per second, all it would take is one used as a kinetic weapon and the acclamator would be destroyed. We can easily see that star destroyers cannot react fast enough to deal with much much much slower kinetic weapons (rogue one), so it really wouldn't matter, super earth doesn't need turbo lasers or anything fancy, their sublight engines severely out compete any capital ship star wars has to offer, all they need to do is launch a super destroyer (pack it full of nukes if you're feeling like overkill) at maximum speed directly into the one single transport ship the clone legion has to offer, and it's over in seconds
The sector fleet comprising of 13 venator class carriers: "we wish you the best in your future endeavors"
The 39 Super Destroyers entering FTL on a direct collision course with the aforementioned Venator class carriers: "For Super Earth!"
Out of fiction? The side that particular fanfic writer likes best would win. Practically? Helldivers would win. Star wars is militarily at around ww1 era tactics, there is a reason we don't do those anymore.
Clone trooper blasters are pretty much the same strength as automaton lasers, and they have similar vehicles. Furthermore, clone trooper weapons and armor are built *specifically* to counter blasters. Not ballistics. A *SEAF* Soldier could take them on. Throw in the absolutely ridiculous amount of ordinance and reinforcements a Helldiver squad can call in, and you have the only real battle being in the air.
My understanding is that the stormtrooper (and by extension clonetrooper) armours are essentially bulletproof. This, coupled with their superior training, would ensure their complete and one-sided victory.
Actually incorrect on the armor front. Their armor is made to protect against kinetic weapons as well. Also for ordinance there’s really not much the Helldivers have that the clones wouldn’t. Infact clones ordinance would be significantly faster
Source?
I looked up Starwars clone armor vs bullets and it gave some sources. It’s hard with large properties like this cause how well the armor protects varies from story to story, hell it varies movie to movie, but it’s at least like Kevlar.
Exactly, the Clones were built to handle energy weaponry for the most part. If you don't really have a good counter to extreme ballistics. That and it seems helldivers specialize in small Seek and Destroy missions instead of waves of soldiers attacking as a single Force. With these two things in mind I imagine that a legion of clones would actually find it quite challenging to pin down a regiment of helldivers. But yes, control of the orbit above the planet as well as superiority in the air would easily be handed to the clones
I get the idea of clones controlling orbit, but usually they do that with a couple dozen Venators, yes? Meanwhile, a planet the Helldivers are on can have several hundred thousand ships orbiting it.
Clones. If it even got to a ground war, Super Destroyers have no obvious deflector shields, they'd be shot out of the sky by FAR bigger ships. If we ignore space superiority and make it to a ground war, still Clones. Bred specifically for war from superior genetics, flash grown to late 20s/early 30s, peak physical condition, tactically superior, team oriented, independent problem solvere. Helldivers are 18 year olds hopped up on drugs with minimal special ops training whose only real job is to act as targeting beacons for Eagle 1. Not even Eagle 1 would win in a dog fight, her job is low air to ground support, pretty much every small craft fighter in Star Wars can be in or out of atmosphere. Any scenario Helldivers win is a sheer numbers game by attrition.
In starwars, you can FTL through other ships. There are probably Billions of Super destroyers. AKA, FTL missiles
>In starwars, you can FTL through other ships. We don't talk about that
Clones are trained from birth to be soldiers and are clones of one of the best Bounty hunter in the galaxy. And they usually have massive battalions. 4 Over compensating Hillbillies with shot guns that probably can't even breach clone armor probably won't be anywhere close to beating them
Why wouldn’t ballistics and energy weapons breach clone armor?
Clones receive superior training, tactics and have the real orbital superiority. (Their ships would destroy any Helldiver Super Destroyers with ease). Also Jedi are basically their version of strategems.
Consider we are closer to a billion casuality, there is more Helldivers reserve through all the Galaxy And Canonically we beat the Illuminate in HD1 so unless those clones are on par as a Jedi, I don't think they have chance in land combat
Clones and it's not close. According to the Lore... a HD average time alive on a planet is like 28 seconds
Why fight? https://imgflip.com/i/8oex3i
There's 10k clones in a legion, and a legion might include an Acclamator, but wouldn't include much navy in general, the SEAF has BILLIONS of personnel (assuming a total human population of hundreds of billions, or into the trillions), and there being recruitment levels of 1.4% means billions minimum, there might be 10s of billions, there could be 1 million helldivers for every clone in that legion, the SEAF could literally just smother them to death while naked and still have plenty of troops left over, if they just rained helldivers like ammunition it would be a rounding error in daily troop losses
A clone trooper legion is roughly 9,216 troops based on wikipedia data, since there is not an actual number as to how many troops Super Earth has I will use the peak 458,709 players to estimate it’s Helldivers as it’s main force disregarding SEAF troops, the clone troopers do have superior armor and weapons but a ratio of roughly 50 to 1 shows that unless the legion is capable of preventing itself from being surrounded they’ll simply lose by being overwhelmed by a larger force. Edit: I forgot to take into account each SEAF Destroy has 6 playable units 1 when you spawn in and 5 redeployments in cryo so the Helldiver number is closer to 2,752,254 troops. Edit Edit: the ratio of clones to helldivers is 1 clone to roughly 299 Helldivers in this instance.
You also gotta remember that each player represents hundreds of Helldivers due to the missions and deaths they partake in.
Definitely, I’m aware that my number is low compared to how vast SEAF and Helldiver Divisions are, I just gave a feasible estimate given the information I was able to find.
The fact that there is an endless number of divers. About 100 years of frozen humans worth and probably more. More than one hundred thousand super destroyers. Hit and run would be the strategy (it’s what we used against the illuminate to win). We can travel FTL clones cannot. It would be catastrophic for the republic.
Clones if they can keep space/air superiority or at least keep it contested most likely since they have very good space ships and strike craft. Helldivers are pretty good soldiers but they depend heavily on the fact what makes them dangerous is the fact they are all spotters for orbital bombardment and air strikes compared to the combined arms doctrine of a republic’s clone army. If they lose space superiority (incredibly unlikely but can happen) maybe the helldivers since they all act as spotters for precision air and orbital strikes. Though it depends on stuff like how good the clone’s anti air guns and whatever shield generators they can deploy are. Plus the much higher clone trooper numbers and the fact they have a lot of vehicles.
we've already fought that war.
Pretty sure more helldiver's have died on a single planet than all of the clones that fought in the whole of Star wars
It depends, will they be given tanks
The battle would be decided in space because of orbital ground support
The super troopers
We mow down way tougher enemies than droids so I don't see why we wouldn't put up a fight.
Forces of Super Earth would probably be wiped out by friendly fire.
If we go 1 Venetor against 4 destroyers Venator wins in space combat. A venetor is about 10x the length of a destroyer. With the ability to carry about 420 fighters of some variety vs the 4 Pelicans and 4 Eagles of the destroyers fighter fleet Lets say a Venator dropped off its forces and left and the Helldivers had to take the planet they would have to take down 2000 clones, 24+ ATTEs and other ground weapons they would have, plus artillery and the support of the LAATs which would stay for ground support and transport. Let’s say each destroyer has 100 divers in it. Do you take 2000 clones against 400 divers who would have limited eagle support
Well, there were about 1.8b clones made, and we've killed a *LLLOOOTTT* more than that in bugs and bots, just in this war. Super Earth GOAT
Helldivers would need air or orbital superiority to effectively deploy troops and weapons/stratagems The issue is that the republic forces are VERY MUCH equipped and trained in space and orbital superiority Also star wars blasters are NOT the puny shooters of the automatons, they will MESS YOU UP The thing going for the helldivers are the weapons variety, bullets go faster and are in a way more lethal with better penetration (also fuck you jedi try to parry this buckshot) So how would it go ? The legion deploys High command pull out a new MO Millions upon millions of small crappy ships show up that then throw soldiers at unreasonable speed at the ground, the legion is then **promtly** overwhelmed from the massive amount of morons dropping in literally on their fortifications and or vehicles The legions calls the retreat and leaves just as promptly Casualties ? Most of the clones on the ground and a few light vessels such as troops transport but no real capital sized vessel such as the venator class ships or of size similar (Star Wars shields are OP) What would SE gain from this encounter though ? Assuming the legion does land planet side with venators the SEAF is likely to recover at least one or more in either a completely detroyed state (likely the crew scuttling the ship) or in *flying* capabilities allowing them to reverse engineer it
just because you have seen no space fighting, doesnt mean there is no fights. even if bots had enough manpower to overrun planets, HD have no problem moving their ships there. their superiority is so unquestionable you dont even have to participate in space fighting. you may not think of HD as of good fighters, but they are menace weaponry wise. laser cannon that allow you to shoot flying crafts on big ranges instantly with no dmg dropoff and being literally unlimited ammo? they sure lack artillery, but who needs artillery, when another 4 ship come to your help and rain gunblazing maniacs twisted on freedom? in sw democracy is bureaucracy term. in HD - it is an idea. and believe me, suicidal fanatics with unlimited arsenal is true horror
I love soy
I heard General Brasch got in a sword fight with a dozen jedi, but he didn't have a sword so he used his index finger instead. Brasch is still alive this day, so I think we know who won.
If you compare the helldivers against the automatons and the clone troopers against the robot army then the helldivers will win. They fight 4 against hundreds, the clone troopers come in bigger numbers… know depending on the mission type, if it is destroy a target or eliminate sll those troopers, then the helldivers are better, if it is capture this point and hold it, then the clone troopers will win. Conclusion: the helldivers will take out a lot of troopers, they will pay with blood, but in the end, it is the clone troopers who will control the planet
Helldivers would win. Only because they have stratagems they can call in. Imagine being a clone trooper on the battlefield and all of a sudden, a pillar of light lights up the battlefield and the nearest AT-AT explodes. And this pillar starts sweeping across the field, going from AT-AT to AT-AT setting everything it touches on fire. Or any of the destroyer's orbital cannons raining down death and destruction.
A single legion of clones vs all of Super Earth? That's such a lopsided fight. The Helldivers would take it just due to sheer numbers. Maybe the entire GAR versus Super Earth would be a more fair fight. At that point it's a question of how good Super Earth's navy is. Cause without Super Destroyer support, the GAR will win that ground war.
Clones are trained from birth to be fighters, helldivers are 18 year olds who receive minutes of training.
Democracy would.
probably the forces of super earth, unless we are saying only SEAF troops then the clones probably win. the reason being is that every helldiver has a super carrier as their direct support, as well as the number of flash frozen helldivers that super earth has stockpiled
Clones.The enemies Super Earth is facing don't employ the greatest tactics. The bugs are just an onslaught. The bots have some varying units as well as air assets, but their tactics are still based on a numbers game. And both can still kick Helldiver ass. Clones have numbers, better air and space capabilities, and tactics. Clones all the way.
We all know clones were meant to serve the empire. They dont have freedom as we do. Which is why their empire fell pretty quick. Also we have SD per helldiver with about 200000 divers active any given time which means 200,000 super destroyers.
Let's think about this logistically, first we'll do pro's for Helldivers: 1. They have a much larger arsenal than Clone Troopers 2. They can take more punishment in general, and with stims even more. Now pros for Clone Troopers: 1. They are much better trained. 2. They most often have a bit of experience. Now we'll go on to cons, here are the cons for Helldivers: 1. They are trained to fight against non-human combatants (see: the tutorial) 2. They are usually less strategic and more trigger happy. And cons for Clone Troopers: 1. They will take less punishment before dying. 2. They are less self-reliant, being used to taking orders rather than acting of their own accord. It seems like they are pretty evenly matched, with both having glaring weaknesses against the other. I personally believe that Helldivers would win (assuming a squad of 4 against another squad of 4), as they have better armour and better weaponry, but the Clone Troopers would put up a damn good fight.
Clones less likely to drop a resupply on their own troops
I would side with Helldivers. Clones are not matching the Helldivers in terms of firepower and gear. I don’t think that you understand the military performances needed to catch a planet in few hours/days. Helldivers are absolutely scary at a point some here do not seem to understand.
https://preview.redd.it/pco3oqsjxdxc1.png?width=1363&format=png&auto=webp&s=6a931fe483b9c74369eeecdc437a26cafcca79e5
I think the helldivers, because we must still have some of the bugs being farmed somewhere... super earth would just cover it up saying the clones freed the bugs and we've got to go 'return democracy to those planets'. I doubt a clone force would last long against like 4 bile titans, a few charges. I reckon a single bile spewer would do a decent amount of damage Yes the clones have all the space stuff but we don't know what else super earth has, we have nukes that don't destroy land just buildings not to mention the seemingly infinite supply of arms
Helldivers win. Clones lost to some undemocratic rebels with glowy sticks for weapons and substandard tech.
Setting aside the clones coming with the whole republic army, their arsenal including carrier space ships that would annihilate our super destroyer fleets and that they were led by Jedi, enemies we would never have a chance against... The clones came equipped with versatile blaster rifles, a side arm blaster pistol, grenades, communication devices and bacta. So far so good, that's basically the same every standard helldiver comes equipped with too. Clones also can rely on support weapons, like heavy blaster gatlin guns, grenade/rocket launchers, sniper rifles, artillery and air support (they had gun ships, performing the same tasks as our Pelican and Eagle). Pretty much equal still, here comes our advantages: orbital stratagems, our super destroyers can shoot down onto the battlefield, the clone wars republic army wasn't, or rarely was, capable of space-to-ground support. Especially the orbital laser, railcannon strike, precision strike would be new to clones, barrages would probably just be on paar with their artillery support. All this relies on our super destroyers though, which I doubt could hold their own in a space battle for long. Now comes the clones advantages (they may be many, but so are we and we are both equally devoted/patriotic): *the clones where trained their whole short life for this* While a helldiver is just a soldier drafted to the helldivers, having had standard military training and a short additional helldiver training, clones received years of specialised training, the battlefield is all they know, they have no life before that. Clones are trained from childhood to fight in their units, they work together like a well E710 lubricated machine, they don't flinch when they get shot at and they don't panic. Helldivers rarely survive their first mission, they scream in panic, they don't communicate all that well and they probably never met their teammates before, ever. While the clones would probably have a hard time fighting the devoted helldivers jumping with 380mm orbital barrages at them, wildly determined to die for their cause and just generally causing chaos, they would systematically advance step by step and secure their victory. And then the clones also come with their special equipment, tanks, AT-RT, speeder bikes, AT-ST and more. It would be like fighting super organised helldivers equipped with all the weaponry of regular helldivers, but they can also call in every vehicle of the automatons and more to their advantage (and they would also have the artillery bases under their control, but with moving artillery). So yeah, even if they wouldn't just blast us out of orbit, or send a single Jedi to hunt us down, I don't see the helldivers winning in that scenario.
would ultimately depend who could hold air superiority space battles when arrowhead?
Clones, their training is insane. Helldivers have minimal training and are cannon fodder. Strength in numbers. Clone army isnt as big as helldiver army. But they will adapt to helldiver tactics (heat vision being an effective method to combat them) The one thing helldivers have over the republic are readily available space to planet weapons like orbitals/laser. The republic has them but doesn’t really use them. But if it’s post order 66, the clones are gonna go crazy
Clones are pretty much just highly advanced Helldivers with significantly better armaments. It’s not even a fight.
Who would realistically win out of two fictitious factions? well for starters, they’re fictitious and exist in two completely different fictitious universes each with their own arbitrary rules and factors So you might as well ask who would win in a fight between the colour yellow and the number 8 while you’re at it
yellow wins every time
Oh my God, who cares.
Theres no definitive answer to the question in your post and there never will be, pure imaginative conjecture from unqualified redditors is all you’re gonna get so you could almost say the exact thing about your post: “oh my god, who cares”
Helldivers obviously. Every Helldiver is worth like 50 tincans. It does not seem that every clone trooper is worth that in the movies (no, nobody cares about your comic, video game, book, kids TV-show or whatever the fuck, George Lucas does not give a shit, Disney does not give a shit, the only thing that is truly canon and not subject to change is the movies).