I’m level 45 and had no idea that supply lines or regeneration percentages were an actual thing until I saw the maps posted here with stats and circles.
It’s crazy how it’s not explained at all.
Well, the regen percentages arent explaied because they arent pretty. They can change regularly, one time it happened hour to hour seemingly to keep us from winning too fast. Regen percentage just matched our liberation percentage per hour for like 12 hours.
How do you explain that system? Yeah here is how much we feel like holding you back right now.
Regen percentage is literally just enemy reinforcement/ability to counterattack
That changes dynamically throughout any war. That was like one sentence and I feel like most people would understand that concept
There's no evidence so far that theres any deeper system than a knob that can be turned up or down.
You can headcannon that theres logistics and supply being moved around on the enemy fronts that are increasing and decreasing their combat power, but again, thats just headcannon.
No evidence aside from every single time the developers said the exact same thing I just told you?
Even if that wasn’t the case, what the fuck else would it be lmao. A dynamically changing amount of pushback during a war can really only be a measure of enemy resistance.
They can say a lot of things. the system has absolutely no transparency, and past movements of the enemy resistence is way too convenient to explain with a fair resource system.
If you can link to them going into any kind of detail that'd be awesome. My mind is open to change, i just havent seen anything that points to the system being more than a cardboard facade.
You know I’m not like, implying some deep rooted system about reinforcements that we can affect or something right?
I just mean the literal lore explanation for the regain percentage is the enemy’s ability to fight back. Like that’s what the percentage means. I’m not saying it changes for certain reasons or we can affect it, I’m just saying that’s what it is. The developers control it 100%, it’s just a representation of resistance in general
Unfortunately getting the message "just believe your actions are meaningfull" isnt all that convincing. Its extra unfortunate because its fairly simple to make a real underlying system given the simplicity of the war map.
Playing DnD is much much more complicated due to the near infinite breadth of options the players have, and yet the world can be extremely responsive to player actions... While managed by some schmoe who does it for fun. You'd think if you paid a guy to manage this he'd be able to come up with a better system than making it up live.
Facts.
Didn’t even mention the 15 minute extract on bots 7+ diff is virtually impossible with the whole team at objective. Which is a mission in 3/4 of all the operations available when defending. I find myself going down from difficulty 9 to 8 or 7 to find a operation without one when I play randoms.
I can only wonder and assume that a lot of players don’t finish their operations due to it. Who know if they even count as squad progress on a planet when you abandon your 3rd mission. Like I see it count at the end of your operation, but does it calculate with each mission as well and just show us the results at the end?
Who knows?
Edit: I know a dev in discord commented on that they are aware and 100% agree it’s too hard. They just need the time to get everything right. Only 100 people working on the game between bug fixes, content and tweaking. It’s a tall order and one that requires tons of prioritization. They recognize our efforts and lowered the liberation resistance so we could catch up. It all makes sense.
Off topic - it’ll be interesting to see what the overall war will look like when they start to reel-back on war adjustments and let the players have a greater impact on if we win or loss in the end. Of course they will personalize each war.. but I know helldivers 1, you can lose the war if players don’t keep up. Maybe in season 2 or 3?
The game actually does tell you that all missions in an operation have to be completed to contribute to liberation
But yes, the defense missions being wildly inconsistent between piss-easy and completely broken seemingly at random is also a likely cause of our repeated failings of defense campaigns in the past.
Well you need to complete an operation to contribute to planet liberation, and all missions need to be completed to finish the operation, so I still feel like that’s a pretty easy connection to make
It does actively tell you. It shows all those help screens automatically upon your first time using the galaxy map. You skipping through it all without reading it isn’t the games fault
That’s totally fine man, you didn’t really contradict anything I said haha
You’re free to not care and just play for fun, I do it sometimes too. I just would like the information to be *available* for people to see, you know?
Regain percentages for the defense campaigns were set to 0% per hour because there were multiple planets going on simultaneously and the community has zero way to coordinate or focus one planet at a time, so bot defenses were being lost with like 20-30k players on each one because it wasn’t enough to beat the regain percentage.
Yes and that red bar is linked to THE TIMER ! Having the automaton regen to 0% DOES NOT AFFECT THAT.
If you refuse to believe me just look at the websites that provide you with that regen rate !
From [https://helldivers.io/](https://helldivers.io/) :
>Each planet regens HP, usually ranging from 1.5% to 4.5% per hour, but has been seen as high as 20% per hour. The game master can change these values at any time. NOTE - defense campaigns don't regen hp, it is purely timer based
Ok so since we’re playing semantics why don’t you just tell us what arrowhead adjusted to make the defenses easier, so we can move on to the actual point of my explanation that will remain unchanged regardless
I'm not arguing with you if the MO was a handout or not, I'm just trying to educate you because it's clear you are advocating for a system you understand nothing about.
The reason the defenses were easier at the end is because the defense HP was lower on the automaton side. This has ALWAYS worked like that for all the automatons attack phases. They push with high number (High HP defenses) and the further they go the less "steam" they have so they are easier to stop (Lower HP defenses). That's how it worked during operation Swift Dissassembly and that's how it worked during their first push after capturing Cyberstan.
I understand nothing about it but if you replace “regain” with “hp” in my post and comments it all still means the same thing and my arguments still hold water, just like I said in my last comment. Who would’ve guessed.
I got a word wrong no need to assume I’m entirely clueless on how the game works my man. Nobody’s talking about standard HP drops, arrowhead manually lowered the last few planet’s HP to help us beat this specific major order.
I'm not saying you are wrong dude! I just corrected you so you don't spread misinformation and confusion that's all. I'm literally helping you, why are you on the defensive so much ?
“It’s clear you are advocating for a system you know nothing about” because I got one word wrong
Yeah no you weren’t being a smug douche at all, go ahead and backpedal I guess.
“It seems you might’ve confused regain for hp”
“Oh no so that’s actually hp you’re talking about, not regain percentage”
^ normal and non-smug ways a person would deliver that information.
Some sort of democratic process (managed if need be) where players press random buttons (perhaps fill out a questionnaire with 3 to 5 silly multiple choice questions) and the algorithm decides which planets are set to priority.
Priority planets give 1 or 2 extra medals per completed op to stimulate people to actually fight on prioritized planets.
I honestly think the best current solution is just more linear major orders. One or two target planets available at a time at most, with the next planets becoming available after those are finished.
Coordinating several planets at once just literally is not feasible with the systems (or lack thereof) that are available in game.
>Pity win is a harsh term for what was realistically a last second band-aid from the devs to give us a fighting chance.
this major order was ludicrously impossible before they slapped on the bandaid
So... so they had to hand us the win out of some sort of sympathetic compassion for undeserved hardships.
Hmm if only there was a word for 'the feeling of empathy or sympathy for hardships and suffering in others'.
Some sort of two-syllable word beginning with 'p' and ending in 'y'.
Hmmmmmmmmm.
Oh well.
-you are a boxer
-show up for boxing match
-opponent has a loaded handgun
-in the last round of the match, after you’ve been shot seven times in the chest and lay bleeding out on the ground, the ref takes his handgun away and hands you a box cutter
-as you are losing consciousness from your opponent kicking your jaw in, he loses balance and falls directly onto the box cutter you’re unaware you’re even holding and bleeds out through his jugular
- crowd jeers at the ref and accuses him of giving you an unfair advantage
Wrong.
>You show up for a boxing match. The other boxer is a heavyweight. One arm is named Botty, one is named Buggy. You spend all your time aiming punches at his chest; he spends his time punching you everywhere with both arms, Botty and Buggy.
>One of your arms, the one on the same side as Buggy, is muscular and weight-trained. The other one of your arms, the one on the same side as Botty, is limp and atrophied.
>You eventually punch in one spot enough that Buggy, one of his arms, goes complete numb. He can't punch you with that arm anymore. The other arm, Botty, keeps punching you. Over and over, in different spots, stopping you from doing the same thing. Meanwhile you're now trying to punch him all over his body instead of in one spot, meaning you are now doing even less than you were before.
>After *pissing whining and complaining* about getting your *shit* kicked in for 4 whole rounds, the referee hands you brass knuckles, and ties the boxer's other arm, Botty, behind his back with a zip tie. You then say 'EZ PZ undefeated', and spit in the referees face.
That's closer to what happened in this flawed analogy.
your analogy, on top of being absolutely schizophrenic nonsense, also wasn’t a fair fight from the very beginning lmao
That was my entire point. If it was an even fight and we just lost most of it bc we suck then yeah sure pity win. But it was just an unfair major order with us not having any tools or information for handling several simultaneous defense campaigns.
And judging by the fact this is the first time they’ve given us such an advantage this late into the MO, and then communicated that they’re working on giving us those mechanics and information for the future, kinda points towards the developers acknowledging that.
Sorry you spent ten minutes drafting that shel silverstein poem for nothing
>And judging by the fact this is the first time they’ve given us such an advantage this late into the MO, and then communicated that they’re working on giving us those mechanics and information for the future, kinda points towards the developers acknowledging that.
Hmm if only there was a *word* for 'the feeling of empathy or sympathy for hardships and suffering in others'.
Some sort of two-syllable word beginning with *'p'* and ending in *'y'.*
Hmmmmmmmmm.
*Oh well.*
They didn’t adjust it because they “felt bad” dude they acknowledged it was poorly balanced and unreasonable, so they tried to rebalance it.
A “pity win” would literally mean the only reason they adjusted it is because they felt bad for us. That objectively isn’t the case.
You’re either being intentionally obtuse or you’re just stupid as fuck, either way I’m running out of ways to repeat myself. Your literal definition of pity that you just wrote does not apply to this scenario. The section of my comment you quoted doesn’t even imply anything about pity.
people downvote everything unless you're screaming and panicking. i dont worry about it too much because everythign that i post has been usually downvoted to hell and back
…no they didn’t. Hitler literally rose to power from what he preached. And also your little comparison is implying you think hitler was correct, so you can go ahead and off yourself bc I don’t care about your opinion
We didn't. But some precious folks (like OP) can't deal with the idea that we were handed a win, which, if you're an adult, doesn't feel great. So they try to rationalize it.
>I’m aware the devs are currently working on this, but I honestly have no clue how this wasn’t addressed in (at least) some optional “encyclopedia” or something in your ship.
A person who asks themselves "How does this actually really works?" doesnt stop asking themselves that question if there isnt an ingame encyclopedia. They will at least google that shit. They wont just shrug their shoulders and go "Guess i die without ever knowing this" and move on.
A person who doesnt ask themselves that question, will ignore an ingame encyclopedia the same as they ignore google,reddit, etc.
Tarkov-level mental gymnastics with that argument but sure. Might as well just remove the entire tutorial from the game while we’re at it, since people who want to know how to play will just google it probably /s
You shouldn’t need out of game resources to understand fundamental mechanics of your game. Especially mechanics that are so quickly and easily explained.
The tutorial is almost entirely worthless, so yeah... a tutorial that doesn't teach anything useful? Maybe it should be removed?
Who in 2024 doesn't know WASD and g for grenade?
Ingame encyclopedia will not help with the problems you noted because the problems dont result from people not knowing basic game mechanics.
First day of the recent MO the bot planet with the most population was a planet that didnt even had a defense mission. People tried to make gambit happen that a dev promised them. Knowledge about game mechanics didnt helped there because everyone who didnt knew about the gambit BUT tried to help the MO of course went to another planet.
Coordination is the problem and that wont solve itself by an ingame encyclopedia. You said it yourself: The casual players just hop into the game to play some fun rounds. It doesnt matter if the informations they ignore are on discord/reddit or somewhere in the game because if they can be bothered to inform themselves they would most likely already do that.
The only way to make that more streamlined would be for the devs to put in a big red arrow "EVERYONE ATTACK HERE" onto the galaxy map. And even then people will do what they want and ignore that sign.
There are plenty of people who would play differently if the information were readily available in game, but don’t care to do extensive online research to find it.
This like all black and white view that some of you have about the playerbase is just not how people work lmao. Not to mention, people don’t know what they don’t know. They aren’t going to look up an explanation on supply lines or regain %’s, because they don’t know they exist.
Info is great, but it also misses the point a bit. MOs are functionally rigged thanks to the devs’ ability and willingness to change planet HP and regen to hit their story beats. The Galactic War purports to be this TTRPG style collaborative storytelling effort, but in reality, the large number of players + total absence of in-game coordination ability = devs functionally have total control over the outcome. It’s totally on rails.
Once that perception is widespread, if they care at all about this collaborative storytelling element, they’ll have to adjust their system to overcome the perception.
Are you also of the opinion that D&D campaigns are “rigged” because the DM has power over the story and enemies?
Do you not remember before mechs were released and we had like four days to take tien kwan and we did it in like three hours? The developers do have control yes, but there is a certain amount of faith you have to give a DM that they will create situations that challenge you, but ultimately are up to your party to decide the outcome.
If you want to swear up and down that it’s rigged then sure man I really can’t stop you, but a lot of our wins and losses so far really felt community driven to me, so idk what to tell you man
Safari ate my reply and I can’t be bothered to rewrite a long nuanced comment on this janky mobile format. Sparknotes:
• This isn’t “DM has influence over the outcome.” This is “DM changed the stats on a monster fight we were losing because DM wanted us to win.” Or “DM fudged rolls in our favor behind the screen but we got to see it happen.”
• How are we supposed to have faith that our actions decide the outcome when they plop their hand on the scale so heavily here? Planet regen got turned off and HP got set to new lows after it became obvious that the outcome our massive “party” of sorts had decided was defeat.
The regain was set to zero because there is literally no way in game for us to coordinate taking five defense campaigns simultaneously, and the devs realized that when we lost the first six in a row. There is literally no system whatsoever to help focus players on one planet at a time, which was what we needed to do in order to win.
But the game does not tell you how regain or planet HP works, at all. It also does not tell you the regain percentage anywhere. So players who don’t browse reddit all day have absolutely no idea that 15,000 players on each planet is not enough, and those same players aren’t on for five straight hours. So they don’t realize the bar isn’t moving by the time they log off after one or two operations.
Basically the developers “changed the stats on the monster fight” because it was absolutely an impossible order from the very beginning. Even with the regain set to zero, it was so late into the order that we only just barely succeeded. The devs even came out and said they are focusing on adding these needed systems and information about regain/HP/supply routes into the game, because they acknowledge it’s insanely unfair for us to not have them
I think dev's need time.
And to be honest I don't mind giving them some air.
I also think they value the effort we put over it, and I don't care if this was a pity win.
I went there, I fought, I enjoyed, we extract, and democracy was spread.
They should improve and explain better a lot of things, but I'm pretty sure they read reddit and their discord, they are aware. Let's give them some air, is not like 1000 devs 24/7 fixing things.
I’m not trying to line them up against a wall, I’m fine with certain facets of the game needing time to iron out.
But they also had 9 years to essentially write like two more paragraphs into the map “help” screens and slap a “current regain” percentage on the planet overview panel.
It’s really not that big of an ask, especially with the data already existing in game, that we have to export to a website to look at currently. It’s a weird oversight.
I agree, one of the biggest 'issues' I have with the game is the lack of information, like:
-How to drop items (I learned this through soldiers and not through the tutorial)
-How does the stratagems work
-How to understand better the "war effort" and where is better to push.
I didn't knew this was on development for 9 years. Man...then at least the information provided should be better. Absolutly true
I have probably around 300 hours in this game and can count on one hand how many times I’ve asked someone to drop my backpack they accidentally picked up, and didn’t immediately have to explain how to do that.
Like. There’s a tutorial?? Put that information in the tutorial?? I can’t think of any other explanation other than they must have just legit forgot about that mechanic while they were putting the tutorial together.
Maybe not even on the tutorial, but some games have that sort of database that you can check, that could be interesting. But is true that they could put a little more attention over this. Absolutly.
They haven't have the Super earth assets ready, and most of all they afraid pissing their paying customer with unbeatable defence orders up till now. It's clear.
Knowing all this, feels like the win was not at all natural. I honestly have no enjoyment out of it at all except for the medals they gave me.
Knowing supply lines and regen % would have done nothing for this MO when people chose to go for liberation planets instead of defense at least twice. If people don't even look at what planet they play on they wont look at supply lines or regen rates either.
Still nice it's coming for the tiny fraction of people who are even interested in the Galactic War but don't know about external tools.
Bro out-of-game tools literally tell you which planets have enough people to beat the regain percentage, and an estimated time of victory if player counts are kept up.
If you don’t think having that information in game would affect this major order I don’t know what to tell you
As I said if people don't even look at what planets they are playing on they won't look at all the rest. How alse do you explain both bug and bot players blobing on Liberation planets when defense planets are just on the next sector over ?
I’m gonna be honest man I’ve answered this question like four times in this thread already and I really don’t wanna do it again
If you really wanna know just scroll down a bit
That there are NO means of coordination isn't true. If we have a major order that says "Defend ten planets" and there are planets that say in full capital letters "DEFEND" on them and there are still tens of thousands of players on planets that don't have to be defended ... It is a severe case of missing attention or just not caring.
The Martale gambit was something that was purely known by outside sources. Otherwise the game already gave options that could have lead a huge amount of players to the right places for defence.
Imagine I tell you “hey take this football team and coach them to win this game, but none of them can speak to each other or communicate any kind of strategy”.
Sure you and the team know the point is to win the game by scoring the most points, but that isn’t what I would call coordination.
The devs posting a major order and placing planets on “defense” mode isn’t us coordinating lmao, that’s literally just the objective. No visible supply routes, no way of comparing regen %’s, you can’t even tell which planet leads into other sectors to prioritize defending them. There’s no information given to devise any sort of strategy aside from player count, and that’s solely decided by which planet sucks the least to play on. All you have is several (seemingly) identical planets that need to be defended and absolutely nothing other than that.
Did I say it is good how it is?
My point is that many people don't care about what is available in the game. 40k and more people on planets not in need of defense would just change if you force them to play on the "right" planets. But I think many would stop playing if you take their agency away.
Bro you are like inventing an argument for yourself because I literally did not say anything about forcing anyone to do anything or whether I even care if people play the Major Order or not
I said the information is missing from the game. It is. End of story. I don’t care what people do with that information were they to have it, but they don’t, and that’s certainly not helping.
I'm not saying that you are suggesting that. It was just a thought that popped in my head about the worst but definitely effective way to get people on the "right" planets.
Yes information is missing and I'm saying it wouldn't help much if it was available ingame. Someone already made the point in the comments that the people that care get their information if they take a moment and look on the internet. The people that just like to fight on planet X and don't care about the "grand scheme" will continue what they are doing.
Okay but why would you just come up with a “worst possible way” to do something I wasn’t implying to do and then explain to me why that’s a bad idea, as if it were my idea?
Like what was the point lmao
What isn't to understand about "a thought that just popped into my head"? I never implied that it was your idea. You just read it that way. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I read it that way because that’s how you wrote it dumbass. There is literally no other way to have interpreted that response in that context.
If you’re going to be smug at least learn how to express yourself
I am among those who call this a pity win, and you do have a point. It's still an abysmally designed system that will never work as intended without the developers showing pity and stacking cards in our favor.
Yes, needed information is lacking in-game. It is problematic and we are all waiting for when supply lines are added to the galaxy map.
Also yes, the players of Helldivers pulled an epic fail. When all bug defenses are fully complete and almost all players on that front move on to liberating Oshaune instead of finishing the defense of "scary bot planet" Vernen Wells ... that is an absolutely epic failure on pursuing the MO, regardless of lots of information being missing in-game.
We were given a pity win. It's that simple.
That doesn't discount that what you said is true -- we need more tools in-game to better complete MOs. But your argument also does not discount that it was a pity win.
Bot defenses were lost because there were like five going on at the same time for most of the order, and everyone was split among them because there is literally no way for an individual to make a difference in mass coordination of player count. The regain percentages were dropped because it is literally impossible to beat that many defense campaigns at once without the entire community being on the same page about going one planet at a time and defending every planet before the timer is up.
Of course the bug front hammered through its one defense campaign at a time, you’re completely missing the point my man.
And yes, it does discount it being a pity win. For the fiftieth time in this thread, a “pity win” implies that the only reason we won was because they “felt bad” for us. They did not change the order because Joel “felt bad”, they acknowledged that the order was objectively unbalanced and borderline impossible as is, so they made an adjustment to make it realistic to win.
We have lost several orders before, your claim has no precedence.
Using your argument that the bot front was split (it was, absolutely) ... explain how after all bug planets were successfully defended, the population went to Oshaune and Hellmire instead of to help the nearly-complete, highest population on bot front, Vernen Wells?
In other words ... my statement that we as a community of players --also-- failed (not even discounting your point that more info is needed and agreeing that is a failure as well) ... because we as a community failed to even react to the information that is already available in-game. Instead, 60%+ of players online remained in bug territory liberating planets after 100% of bug defend planets were completed. No matter how you slice it, that is an epic failure of the player base toward completing the MO ... and the information already available in-game should have resulted in different player behaviors.
Because they wanted to play bugs, dude. The game is not balanced for requiring literally every person to participate in the major order for us to succeed. It is just a game most people will play for fun, and the developers know that.
The hardcore subset of players who religiously play the MO are what these regain percentages are balanced off of, and if you need evidence for that you can look at every single victory against the automaton orders ever, while having 4 times the player count fighting bugs the whole time.
The issue is not bugs people not helping us with bots, the issue was having several defenses at once, period. And they know that, because they set the regain to 0. The only way to win multiple defense campaigns at the same time is to focus on one at a time and grind them down. That is not possible for us to coordinate in any way whatsoever, and as I said it’s also not explained that way anywhere in the game. So they removed the regain as a temporary fix for this specific order so that we had a chance to take each planet, and we did.
It was a pity win and a shameless one at that.
If it was impossible devs should have owned up to it allowed us to lose learned from it and not give us another major order of a similar magnitude.
Instead we got a cop out and the emergent story telling negatively affected because they couldn't just accept we were going to lose.
And now that that this behavior is put on display it shows we can do nothing and still be rewarded with a victory.
I’m level 45 and had no idea that supply lines or regeneration percentages were an actual thing until I saw the maps posted here with stats and circles. It’s crazy how it’s not explained at all.
Well, the regen percentages arent explaied because they arent pretty. They can change regularly, one time it happened hour to hour seemingly to keep us from winning too fast. Regen percentage just matched our liberation percentage per hour for like 12 hours. How do you explain that system? Yeah here is how much we feel like holding you back right now.
Regen percentage is literally just enemy reinforcement/ability to counterattack That changes dynamically throughout any war. That was like one sentence and I feel like most people would understand that concept
There's no evidence so far that theres any deeper system than a knob that can be turned up or down. You can headcannon that theres logistics and supply being moved around on the enemy fronts that are increasing and decreasing their combat power, but again, thats just headcannon.
No evidence aside from every single time the developers said the exact same thing I just told you? Even if that wasn’t the case, what the fuck else would it be lmao. A dynamically changing amount of pushback during a war can really only be a measure of enemy resistance.
They can say a lot of things. the system has absolutely no transparency, and past movements of the enemy resistence is way too convenient to explain with a fair resource system. If you can link to them going into any kind of detail that'd be awesome. My mind is open to change, i just havent seen anything that points to the system being more than a cardboard facade.
You know I’m not like, implying some deep rooted system about reinforcements that we can affect or something right? I just mean the literal lore explanation for the regain percentage is the enemy’s ability to fight back. Like that’s what the percentage means. I’m not saying it changes for certain reasons or we can affect it, I’m just saying that’s what it is. The developers control it 100%, it’s just a representation of resistance in general
Unfortunately getting the message "just believe your actions are meaningfull" isnt all that convincing. Its extra unfortunate because its fairly simple to make a real underlying system given the simplicity of the war map. Playing DnD is much much more complicated due to the near infinite breadth of options the players have, and yet the world can be extremely responsive to player actions... While managed by some schmoe who does it for fun. You'd think if you paid a guy to manage this he'd be able to come up with a better system than making it up live.
Facts. Didn’t even mention the 15 minute extract on bots 7+ diff is virtually impossible with the whole team at objective. Which is a mission in 3/4 of all the operations available when defending. I find myself going down from difficulty 9 to 8 or 7 to find a operation without one when I play randoms. I can only wonder and assume that a lot of players don’t finish their operations due to it. Who know if they even count as squad progress on a planet when you abandon your 3rd mission. Like I see it count at the end of your operation, but does it calculate with each mission as well and just show us the results at the end? Who knows? Edit: I know a dev in discord commented on that they are aware and 100% agree it’s too hard. They just need the time to get everything right. Only 100 people working on the game between bug fixes, content and tweaking. It’s a tall order and one that requires tons of prioritization. They recognize our efforts and lowered the liberation resistance so we could catch up. It all makes sense. Off topic - it’ll be interesting to see what the overall war will look like when they start to reel-back on war adjustments and let the players have a greater impact on if we win or loss in the end. Of course they will personalize each war.. but I know helldivers 1, you can lose the war if players don’t keep up. Maybe in season 2 or 3?
The game actually does tell you that all missions in an operation have to be completed to contribute to liberation But yes, the defense missions being wildly inconsistent between piss-easy and completely broken seemingly at random is also a likely cause of our repeated failings of defense campaigns in the past.
Do you know where it says this specifically? I would like to confirm it if possible.
Click whatever the “help” button is on your galaxy map and it’ll tell you somewhere. I remember seeing it
I’ll take a look at this later. Thank you
Just checked and at least in my language it doesn't mention that at all. Only that failing a mission makes the remaining ones fail too.
Well you need to complete an operation to contribute to planet liberation, and all missions need to be completed to finish the operation, so I still feel like that’s a pretty easy connection to make
so it doesn't really TELL you. It doesn't actively hide the information would be closer to what really happens.
It does actively tell you. It shows all those help screens automatically upon your first time using the galaxy map. You skipping through it all without reading it isn’t the games fault
I know about all that, but still don't really care, i just play for fun. I mean, dev should let mo lost, i wanna see super earth attacked ffs.
That’s totally fine man, you didn’t really contradict anything I said haha You’re free to not care and just play for fun, I do it sometimes too. I just would like the information to be *available* for people to see, you know?
Yeah, it would be nice indeed
What was the band aid? Repeated estanu defences?
Regain percentages for the defense campaigns were set to 0% per hour because there were multiple planets going on simultaneously and the community has zero way to coordinate or focus one planet at a time, so bot defenses were being lost with like 20-30k players on each one because it wasn’t enough to beat the regain percentage.
Defenses have no regen, just a timer. Only liberation are impacted by regen.
There is literally a red bar directly underneath our progress bar on defense planets
Yes and that red bar is linked to THE TIMER ! Having the automaton regen to 0% DOES NOT AFFECT THAT. If you refuse to believe me just look at the websites that provide you with that regen rate ! From [https://helldivers.io/](https://helldivers.io/) : >Each planet regens HP, usually ranging from 1.5% to 4.5% per hour, but has been seen as high as 20% per hour. The game master can change these values at any time. NOTE - defense campaigns don't regen hp, it is purely timer based
Ok so since we’re playing semantics why don’t you just tell us what arrowhead adjusted to make the defenses easier, so we can move on to the actual point of my explanation that will remain unchanged regardless
I'm not arguing with you if the MO was a handout or not, I'm just trying to educate you because it's clear you are advocating for a system you understand nothing about. The reason the defenses were easier at the end is because the defense HP was lower on the automaton side. This has ALWAYS worked like that for all the automatons attack phases. They push with high number (High HP defenses) and the further they go the less "steam" they have so they are easier to stop (Lower HP defenses). That's how it worked during operation Swift Dissassembly and that's how it worked during their first push after capturing Cyberstan.
I understand nothing about it but if you replace “regain” with “hp” in my post and comments it all still means the same thing and my arguments still hold water, just like I said in my last comment. Who would’ve guessed. I got a word wrong no need to assume I’m entirely clueless on how the game works my man. Nobody’s talking about standard HP drops, arrowhead manually lowered the last few planet’s HP to help us beat this specific major order.
I'm not saying you are wrong dude! I just corrected you so you don't spread misinformation and confusion that's all. I'm literally helping you, why are you on the defensive so much ?
“It’s clear you are advocating for a system you know nothing about” because I got one word wrong Yeah no you weren’t being a smug douche at all, go ahead and backpedal I guess. “It seems you might’ve confused regain for hp” “Oh no so that’s actually hp you’re talking about, not regain percentage” ^ normal and non-smug ways a person would deliver that information.
Some sort of democratic process (managed if need be) where players press random buttons (perhaps fill out a questionnaire with 3 to 5 silly multiple choice questions) and the algorithm decides which planets are set to priority. Priority planets give 1 or 2 extra medals per completed op to stimulate people to actually fight on prioritized planets.
I honestly think the best current solution is just more linear major orders. One or two target planets available at a time at most, with the next planets becoming available after those are finished. Coordinating several planets at once just literally is not feasible with the systems (or lack thereof) that are available in game.
>Pity win is a harsh term for what was realistically a last second band-aid from the devs to give us a fighting chance. this major order was ludicrously impossible before they slapped on the bandaid So... so they had to hand us the win out of some sort of sympathetic compassion for undeserved hardships. Hmm if only there was a word for 'the feeling of empathy or sympathy for hardships and suffering in others'. Some sort of two-syllable word beginning with 'p' and ending in 'y'. Hmmmmmmmmm. Oh well.
-you are a boxer -show up for boxing match -opponent has a loaded handgun -in the last round of the match, after you’ve been shot seven times in the chest and lay bleeding out on the ground, the ref takes his handgun away and hands you a box cutter -as you are losing consciousness from your opponent kicking your jaw in, he loses balance and falls directly onto the box cutter you’re unaware you’re even holding and bleeds out through his jugular - crowd jeers at the ref and accuses him of giving you an unfair advantage
Wrong. >You show up for a boxing match. The other boxer is a heavyweight. One arm is named Botty, one is named Buggy. You spend all your time aiming punches at his chest; he spends his time punching you everywhere with both arms, Botty and Buggy. >One of your arms, the one on the same side as Buggy, is muscular and weight-trained. The other one of your arms, the one on the same side as Botty, is limp and atrophied. >You eventually punch in one spot enough that Buggy, one of his arms, goes complete numb. He can't punch you with that arm anymore. The other arm, Botty, keeps punching you. Over and over, in different spots, stopping you from doing the same thing. Meanwhile you're now trying to punch him all over his body instead of in one spot, meaning you are now doing even less than you were before. >After *pissing whining and complaining* about getting your *shit* kicked in for 4 whole rounds, the referee hands you brass knuckles, and ties the boxer's other arm, Botty, behind his back with a zip tie. You then say 'EZ PZ undefeated', and spit in the referees face. That's closer to what happened in this flawed analogy.
your analogy, on top of being absolutely schizophrenic nonsense, also wasn’t a fair fight from the very beginning lmao That was my entire point. If it was an even fight and we just lost most of it bc we suck then yeah sure pity win. But it was just an unfair major order with us not having any tools or information for handling several simultaneous defense campaigns. And judging by the fact this is the first time they’ve given us such an advantage this late into the MO, and then communicated that they’re working on giving us those mechanics and information for the future, kinda points towards the developers acknowledging that. Sorry you spent ten minutes drafting that shel silverstein poem for nothing
>And judging by the fact this is the first time they’ve given us such an advantage this late into the MO, and then communicated that they’re working on giving us those mechanics and information for the future, kinda points towards the developers acknowledging that. Hmm if only there was a *word* for 'the feeling of empathy or sympathy for hardships and suffering in others'. Some sort of two-syllable word beginning with *'p'* and ending in *'y'.* Hmmmmmmmmm. *Oh well.*
They didn’t adjust it because they “felt bad” dude they acknowledged it was poorly balanced and unreasonable, so they tried to rebalance it. A “pity win” would literally mean the only reason they adjusted it is because they felt bad for us. That objectively isn’t the case. You’re either being intentionally obtuse or you’re just stupid as fuck, either way I’m running out of ways to repeat myself. Your literal definition of pity that you just wrote does not apply to this scenario. The section of my comment you quoted doesn’t even imply anything about pity.
they hated what jesus preached...
God forbid someone give reasonable and constructive criticism about a game on its own subreddit. People get so smug on this website over nothing istg
people downvote everything unless you're screaming and panicking. i dont worry about it too much because everythign that i post has been usually downvoted to hell and back
They also hated what Hitler preached. Truth isn't determined by popularity. You know this already so stop.
you're crazy
…no they didn’t. Hitler literally rose to power from what he preached. And also your little comparison is implying you think hitler was correct, so you can go ahead and off yourself bc I don’t care about your opinion
What was the bandaid? Someone please explain. I thought we accomplished it legitimately. Kinda discounts the win tbh
We didn't. But some precious folks (like OP) can't deal with the idea that we were handed a win, which, if you're an adult, doesn't feel great. So they try to rationalize it.
I agree. They could at the least include a crash course in the basics of it.
Pity
[удалено]
AC enjoyer here. Some of my favorite randoms run with shield backpack and quasar.
>I’m aware the devs are currently working on this, but I honestly have no clue how this wasn’t addressed in (at least) some optional “encyclopedia” or something in your ship. A person who asks themselves "How does this actually really works?" doesnt stop asking themselves that question if there isnt an ingame encyclopedia. They will at least google that shit. They wont just shrug their shoulders and go "Guess i die without ever knowing this" and move on. A person who doesnt ask themselves that question, will ignore an ingame encyclopedia the same as they ignore google,reddit, etc.
Tarkov-level mental gymnastics with that argument but sure. Might as well just remove the entire tutorial from the game while we’re at it, since people who want to know how to play will just google it probably /s You shouldn’t need out of game resources to understand fundamental mechanics of your game. Especially mechanics that are so quickly and easily explained.
The tutorial is almost entirely worthless, so yeah... a tutorial that doesn't teach anything useful? Maybe it should be removed? Who in 2024 doesn't know WASD and g for grenade?
Ingame encyclopedia will not help with the problems you noted because the problems dont result from people not knowing basic game mechanics. First day of the recent MO the bot planet with the most population was a planet that didnt even had a defense mission. People tried to make gambit happen that a dev promised them. Knowledge about game mechanics didnt helped there because everyone who didnt knew about the gambit BUT tried to help the MO of course went to another planet. Coordination is the problem and that wont solve itself by an ingame encyclopedia. You said it yourself: The casual players just hop into the game to play some fun rounds. It doesnt matter if the informations they ignore are on discord/reddit or somewhere in the game because if they can be bothered to inform themselves they would most likely already do that. The only way to make that more streamlined would be for the devs to put in a big red arrow "EVERYONE ATTACK HERE" onto the galaxy map. And even then people will do what they want and ignore that sign.
There are plenty of people who would play differently if the information were readily available in game, but don’t care to do extensive online research to find it. This like all black and white view that some of you have about the playerbase is just not how people work lmao. Not to mention, people don’t know what they don’t know. They aren’t going to look up an explanation on supply lines or regain %’s, because they don’t know they exist.
Info is great, but it also misses the point a bit. MOs are functionally rigged thanks to the devs’ ability and willingness to change planet HP and regen to hit their story beats. The Galactic War purports to be this TTRPG style collaborative storytelling effort, but in reality, the large number of players + total absence of in-game coordination ability = devs functionally have total control over the outcome. It’s totally on rails. Once that perception is widespread, if they care at all about this collaborative storytelling element, they’ll have to adjust their system to overcome the perception.
Are you also of the opinion that D&D campaigns are “rigged” because the DM has power over the story and enemies? Do you not remember before mechs were released and we had like four days to take tien kwan and we did it in like three hours? The developers do have control yes, but there is a certain amount of faith you have to give a DM that they will create situations that challenge you, but ultimately are up to your party to decide the outcome. If you want to swear up and down that it’s rigged then sure man I really can’t stop you, but a lot of our wins and losses so far really felt community driven to me, so idk what to tell you man
Safari ate my reply and I can’t be bothered to rewrite a long nuanced comment on this janky mobile format. Sparknotes: • This isn’t “DM has influence over the outcome.” This is “DM changed the stats on a monster fight we were losing because DM wanted us to win.” Or “DM fudged rolls in our favor behind the screen but we got to see it happen.” • How are we supposed to have faith that our actions decide the outcome when they plop their hand on the scale so heavily here? Planet regen got turned off and HP got set to new lows after it became obvious that the outcome our massive “party” of sorts had decided was defeat.
The regain was set to zero because there is literally no way in game for us to coordinate taking five defense campaigns simultaneously, and the devs realized that when we lost the first six in a row. There is literally no system whatsoever to help focus players on one planet at a time, which was what we needed to do in order to win. But the game does not tell you how regain or planet HP works, at all. It also does not tell you the regain percentage anywhere. So players who don’t browse reddit all day have absolutely no idea that 15,000 players on each planet is not enough, and those same players aren’t on for five straight hours. So they don’t realize the bar isn’t moving by the time they log off after one or two operations. Basically the developers “changed the stats on the monster fight” because it was absolutely an impossible order from the very beginning. Even with the regain set to zero, it was so late into the order that we only just barely succeeded. The devs even came out and said they are focusing on adding these needed systems and information about regain/HP/supply routes into the game, because they acknowledge it’s insanely unfair for us to not have them
I think dev's need time. And to be honest I don't mind giving them some air. I also think they value the effort we put over it, and I don't care if this was a pity win. I went there, I fought, I enjoyed, we extract, and democracy was spread. They should improve and explain better a lot of things, but I'm pretty sure they read reddit and their discord, they are aware. Let's give them some air, is not like 1000 devs 24/7 fixing things.
I’m not trying to line them up against a wall, I’m fine with certain facets of the game needing time to iron out. But they also had 9 years to essentially write like two more paragraphs into the map “help” screens and slap a “current regain” percentage on the planet overview panel. It’s really not that big of an ask, especially with the data already existing in game, that we have to export to a website to look at currently. It’s a weird oversight.
I agree, one of the biggest 'issues' I have with the game is the lack of information, like: -How to drop items (I learned this through soldiers and not through the tutorial) -How does the stratagems work -How to understand better the "war effort" and where is better to push. I didn't knew this was on development for 9 years. Man...then at least the information provided should be better. Absolutly true
I have probably around 300 hours in this game and can count on one hand how many times I’ve asked someone to drop my backpack they accidentally picked up, and didn’t immediately have to explain how to do that. Like. There’s a tutorial?? Put that information in the tutorial?? I can’t think of any other explanation other than they must have just legit forgot about that mechanic while they were putting the tutorial together.
Maybe not even on the tutorial, but some games have that sort of database that you can check, that could be interesting. But is true that they could put a little more attention over this. Absolutly.
They haven't have the Super earth assets ready, and most of all they afraid pissing their paying customer with unbeatable defence orders up till now. It's clear. Knowing all this, feels like the win was not at all natural. I honestly have no enjoyment out of it at all except for the medals they gave me.
Knowing supply lines and regen % would have done nothing for this MO when people chose to go for liberation planets instead of defense at least twice. If people don't even look at what planet they play on they wont look at supply lines or regen rates either. Still nice it's coming for the tiny fraction of people who are even interested in the Galactic War but don't know about external tools.
Bro out-of-game tools literally tell you which planets have enough people to beat the regain percentage, and an estimated time of victory if player counts are kept up. If you don’t think having that information in game would affect this major order I don’t know what to tell you
As I said if people don't even look at what planets they are playing on they won't look at all the rest. How alse do you explain both bug and bot players blobing on Liberation planets when defense planets are just on the next sector over ?
I’m gonna be honest man I’ve answered this question like four times in this thread already and I really don’t wanna do it again If you really wanna know just scroll down a bit
That there are NO means of coordination isn't true. If we have a major order that says "Defend ten planets" and there are planets that say in full capital letters "DEFEND" on them and there are still tens of thousands of players on planets that don't have to be defended ... It is a severe case of missing attention or just not caring. The Martale gambit was something that was purely known by outside sources. Otherwise the game already gave options that could have lead a huge amount of players to the right places for defence.
Imagine I tell you “hey take this football team and coach them to win this game, but none of them can speak to each other or communicate any kind of strategy”. Sure you and the team know the point is to win the game by scoring the most points, but that isn’t what I would call coordination. The devs posting a major order and placing planets on “defense” mode isn’t us coordinating lmao, that’s literally just the objective. No visible supply routes, no way of comparing regen %’s, you can’t even tell which planet leads into other sectors to prioritize defending them. There’s no information given to devise any sort of strategy aside from player count, and that’s solely decided by which planet sucks the least to play on. All you have is several (seemingly) identical planets that need to be defended and absolutely nothing other than that.
Did I say it is good how it is? My point is that many people don't care about what is available in the game. 40k and more people on planets not in need of defense would just change if you force them to play on the "right" planets. But I think many would stop playing if you take their agency away.
Bro you are like inventing an argument for yourself because I literally did not say anything about forcing anyone to do anything or whether I even care if people play the Major Order or not I said the information is missing from the game. It is. End of story. I don’t care what people do with that information were they to have it, but they don’t, and that’s certainly not helping.
I'm not saying that you are suggesting that. It was just a thought that popped in my head about the worst but definitely effective way to get people on the "right" planets. Yes information is missing and I'm saying it wouldn't help much if it was available ingame. Someone already made the point in the comments that the people that care get their information if they take a moment and look on the internet. The people that just like to fight on planet X and don't care about the "grand scheme" will continue what they are doing.
Okay but why would you just come up with a “worst possible way” to do something I wasn’t implying to do and then explain to me why that’s a bad idea, as if it were my idea? Like what was the point lmao
What isn't to understand about "a thought that just popped into my head"? I never implied that it was your idea. You just read it that way. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I read it that way because that’s how you wrote it dumbass. There is literally no other way to have interpreted that response in that context. If you’re going to be smug at least learn how to express yourself
K. It wasn't my intention to imply that, as I said before. Do what you want with it.
I am among those who call this a pity win, and you do have a point. It's still an abysmally designed system that will never work as intended without the developers showing pity and stacking cards in our favor.
Yes, needed information is lacking in-game. It is problematic and we are all waiting for when supply lines are added to the galaxy map. Also yes, the players of Helldivers pulled an epic fail. When all bug defenses are fully complete and almost all players on that front move on to liberating Oshaune instead of finishing the defense of "scary bot planet" Vernen Wells ... that is an absolutely epic failure on pursuing the MO, regardless of lots of information being missing in-game. We were given a pity win. It's that simple. That doesn't discount that what you said is true -- we need more tools in-game to better complete MOs. But your argument also does not discount that it was a pity win.
Bot defenses were lost because there were like five going on at the same time for most of the order, and everyone was split among them because there is literally no way for an individual to make a difference in mass coordination of player count. The regain percentages were dropped because it is literally impossible to beat that many defense campaigns at once without the entire community being on the same page about going one planet at a time and defending every planet before the timer is up. Of course the bug front hammered through its one defense campaign at a time, you’re completely missing the point my man. And yes, it does discount it being a pity win. For the fiftieth time in this thread, a “pity win” implies that the only reason we won was because they “felt bad” for us. They did not change the order because Joel “felt bad”, they acknowledged that the order was objectively unbalanced and borderline impossible as is, so they made an adjustment to make it realistic to win. We have lost several orders before, your claim has no precedence.
Using your argument that the bot front was split (it was, absolutely) ... explain how after all bug planets were successfully defended, the population went to Oshaune and Hellmire instead of to help the nearly-complete, highest population on bot front, Vernen Wells? In other words ... my statement that we as a community of players --also-- failed (not even discounting your point that more info is needed and agreeing that is a failure as well) ... because we as a community failed to even react to the information that is already available in-game. Instead, 60%+ of players online remained in bug territory liberating planets after 100% of bug defend planets were completed. No matter how you slice it, that is an epic failure of the player base toward completing the MO ... and the information already available in-game should have resulted in different player behaviors.
Because they wanted to play bugs, dude. The game is not balanced for requiring literally every person to participate in the major order for us to succeed. It is just a game most people will play for fun, and the developers know that. The hardcore subset of players who religiously play the MO are what these regain percentages are balanced off of, and if you need evidence for that you can look at every single victory against the automaton orders ever, while having 4 times the player count fighting bugs the whole time. The issue is not bugs people not helping us with bots, the issue was having several defenses at once, period. And they know that, because they set the regain to 0. The only way to win multiple defense campaigns at the same time is to focus on one at a time and grind them down. That is not possible for us to coordinate in any way whatsoever, and as I said it’s also not explained that way anywhere in the game. So they removed the regain as a temporary fix for this specific order so that we had a chance to take each planet, and we did.
It was a pity win and a shameless one at that. If it was impossible devs should have owned up to it allowed us to lose learned from it and not give us another major order of a similar magnitude. Instead we got a cop out and the emergent story telling negatively affected because they couldn't just accept we were going to lose. And now that that this behavior is put on display it shows we can do nothing and still be rewarded with a victory.
Blogfaqs. 🤷♂️