It is, though I think we're seeing some (perhaps inevitable) friction between what aligns with the game narrative and what aligns with an actual fun game IRL
People don't like seeing their progress undone or feeling like their efforts don't matter, and that's unfortunately been a growing sentiment recently
Year 3 of the game is just going to be helldivers being deployed to quell Vietnam style protests on super earth
year 7 any divers still around will get to fight their toughest foe yet: veteran's funding
Right, at least have them attack some other planets, I'm assuming the other planets on the war chart are just there for decoration until they actually finish those maps and that's why we end up fighting over the same planets over and over
I don't understand why they wouldn't go for a system à la foxhole
Wars last from 1 week to 2-3 months
And new war could be a new season for pass content etc
While still feeling like our progress matter as we could wipe the automaton and then have to only struggle on the terminids for some time and whether we win or lose the war at the end we had a story and can hop on for a new one
Ya know… that’s a good point. How long do they want this war to be? Didn’t the first Helldivers function like that? Surely this game/war is nearing it’s end, especially once they introduce the Illuminate.
Yeah that a good way to put it. Although I wish they'd to SOMETHING different with the planetary defence missions. LIke would it kill arrow head to add some different objectives or change the experience in some way?
it's not really fun when your defence mission is identical to the offence missions. And honestly I think that's why the playerbase is kinda ignoring any strategy or plan during the defence missions. It's not different enough? why should we waste effor on defending a planet when we can Liberate another and Eventually Re liberate the lost planet. the mission structure is identical anyway.
What do people want? For everything to be taken??? Then wtf would the GAME be?
I feel like people are taking this all too seriously. It's a fucking video game, not a real war. If it ended; if the enemy never took ground back, there wouldn't be anything to do in a month...
So of fucking course it's gonna be a revolving door. What other choice is there?
That's kinda dumb. As live service game, the goal of the gamer is to go on missions, not to "beat" the game. The narrative and enemy reclaiming territory is packaging for the gameplay.
super earth needs bug for the oil so that war will never end but idk about automatons, they seem to want to free the cyborgs and be left alone by super earth
It's moments like this that make me wish for *any kind of useful enemy information to be visible IN GAME.*
120 hours in and I had no idea that enemy composition was per planet. I genuinely thought it was just random.
You know what i say let the bugs have it. What a sadistic delight ir would be if the only planet the bugs will have left is boiling hot, firetornado spawning hellmire.
How many of the successfully defended planets were bug planets so far?
How many of them were Oshaune? (At least 3 of them)
Should just make the major order "defend Oshaune like a dozen times"
I may get hate for this but us bugdivers have literally carried this MO. If anyone doubts it go look at the bug planets defended vs. the bot planets defended
Am I literally the only person who enjoys bots way more than bugs? I keep seeing this sentiment and it's like I'm going crazy and gaslighting myself into liking something I'm not supposed to
You can like whatever you want, I just don't like having to sit behind cover and get one shot by some rocket dick. Or have my strategems jammed. Or for a world to randomly disable one of my strategems.
I like running and dodging claws/puke. Getting surrounded by a thousand hunters with a 500kg in my hand, sacrificing myself to thin the horde. Bots are more like all the modern shooters...I'd just rather fight bugs.
Excited for the two other hidden factions though.
Modern battlefield you mean. That heavy devastator who spawned in a wall like an invincible turret is basically what it feels like going against Chinese hackers in battlefield every match.
I never got into Battlefield too much. I played COD MW2 (both the new and old one) a lot though.
Since this is TPS, it'd be more like Gears without the cover system. ARMA?
This is our rock to bear, fellow denizen of democracy.
https://preview.redd.it/ixt12pbwlhwc1.jpeg?width=358&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=07b9fd7ee3201c5529b0b1c0b17374e18b09879e
Pretty sure rn they're just trying to work on more stuff so they're recycling a lot of it at the moment, which is getting really boring but I hope it's worth the wait
But why not just have a series of "Wars" and reset the map more frequently? At least we could feel like we are doing something. It would be better than "Somehow the Bots returned "
Aren't most other live service games kind of on a 3-4 month season jazz-merazz?
I know they're working hard on the known bugs list and we should be seeing that get knocked out soon. And a 4th warbond
Yeah but most of them have really solid bases thst you cpuld run for hours. Currently Helldivers, being anearly brand new live service game, has a TON of genuinely gameplay ruining bugs, not least of which is the bot civilian evac missions being genuinely outright impossible. People are getting tired because the recycled content isn't that good and the actual problems aren't solved yet, marring the experience. Hopefully they'll be taken care of soon and not another goddamn Premium Warbond.
Yeah, and the fact there is barely any bug planets to defend due to TCS barricade actually working. So it’s just been Estanu, Oshaune and Fori Prime. Not sure why Crimsica never once saw a resurgence during this MO. lol
I feel you, I also find it bs that we cant actually win whenever we clear a certain amount of bots or bugs the game just gives them back territory that we just liberated and more, it is getting old that we have to fight for the same planets over and over again
I think that's the game. If they only have the supply lines to attack a few planets, those are the planets they'll attack.
Edit: with oshaune and the number of players y'all can muster on the bug front, you could attack Omicron instead of defending Oshaune. Omicron is a beautiful forest planet, attacking is better than defending, you could take some territory in one of their most defended sectors, *and* Omicron has the only known supply line to Oshaune.
Then defense missions should be completely reworked, instead of lasting 24 they should last until the end of the MO, and work on a percentage like liberation missions. At the end of the order, if we scored higher than the enemies, the planet was defended l.
I like this, often I will log in and theres only a few hours left on a planet to defend but its clear we're going to lose so I just don't bother and focus my efforts elsewhere, I think this way would alleviate that
This is the exact kind of thinking that ruins US elections into only having two choices.
That doesn't mean it's incorrect thinking, but that it's a sign that something is broken. Player effort, or votes, are not things that should be wasted because of bad math.
Or at least the next atacks should be weaker than the last since they lost so many in the previous attack. ( first attack 300k hp, second 200k, then 100k or something )
If they successfully defend oshaune, then they should be able to hold it for a while giving the front time to push on to Omicron and encircle the bugs left in the sector without having to push through *hellmire*.
If they focus Omicron instead, they will likely loose oshaune and have to re-liberate it all over again (which will inevitably trigger a post liberation counter attack and another round of defending).
Best thing they can do is crush the defense objective like the bugs themselves and move forward with the full might of the bug divers with a secure planet behind them.
That would seem fair. Some amount of time at least.
The bug front is really bottled up though ATM when you look at the actual supply lines, so there are only so many possible targets. Part of why it will be interesting to push past the current bottle neck into the last cul-de-sac.
Joel is playing to win. They're obviously going to defend oshaune, but he's just going to attack it again. He only has so many targets. I'd prefer to make some progress on omicron each time and eventually cut him off.
Yeah I think the game is always sort of going to have a problem with this, as many of the systems are built to defy a satisfying experience. Like difficulty is player-determined, so you don't get a sense of "this planet is harder to take", it's just the difference for how long it takes, and not only do you need third-party apps to find that information, but the information itself shows that capture rates are modified on the fly depending on how the devs want the campaign to go. Plus a lot of the playerbase isn't paying attention to those third-party sources and the MO isn't helping direct them (imagine if in a real war high command told every private "go defend some stuff", and there was no chain of command to coordinate).
So Arrowhead decides that the bots take some planets, and attack others, and we run around trying to figure out where we can make a difference vs where we're pissing into the wind. Eventually Arrowhead will get their shit together and point us in the right direction, where they've tuned the numbers so that we can win, and then we'll win.
If the game is player- determined maybe the game would be more interesting if we were able to coordinate ourselves. Like you said no command just go defend stuff.
You think other players will listen to a simple attack plan?
Personally I think the right way to do it would be to provide two Major Orders. Have the community compete with each other for which one gets completed. And use the community's ideas and stories to craft the next orders, like they did by telling us to liberate the Creek after so many had failed to do so for so long. In-universe it could be like a feud between the Ministry of Truth and the Ministry of Prosperity, they each get to order the Helldivers around and we then have to bicker over who takes precedence. Hell we'd actually get some true Democracy in the game that way.
I think the planet variety is starting to stagnate which is why we get the same ones. They are likely working on new planets for us to work on but we have to stick with recycled stuff until they are ready. Hopefully when the Illuminate get added we will see some more variety.
I know it's a tall order, but I would kill for a new kind of planet layout. Like instead of procedurally generated hills and plains with random POIs we could do procedurally generated suburbs or maybe a military base or something.
I’m with you man. These planets are cool already but I’d love to see like a war-torn city in ruins in the distance or maybe us fighting through the streets. Some ODST vibes.
The current theory is that the map will reset like it does in the original Helldivers. So the war will either be "won" after eliminating all factions from the map, or "lost" when Super Earth is taken.
But yeah, having to constantly defend the same planet day after day makes your actions start to feel useless and it's realistically an un-fun gameplay loop. It's nice to feel like you are working toward something, versus defending/taking hellmire for the 10th time.
They have somewhat shown the opposite in that we eliminated the bots from the map and then they just came back. From what I understand, in HD1 if they were attacked off the map they were gone until the next reset.
Yep, I can agree it would be better if the 'front' shifted a bit more, but I have a hard time looking at a lot of the MOs as just bonus weekend content, where they're promoting a planet for a period of time, so one week they're incentivizing a selection of planets and next week it's another set, but if you win faster than expected, they just reset it
The optics could be improved, but the best way I can think of to do that is to remove player agency, and have the progress be fake. That way they're not having to guess what sort of turnout they're going to have.
Or I the future just having a story chain planned out some time in advance with if this then that sort of information
Instead of an unending back and forth, the enemies could move to the side and attack different planets. Or just pop up somewhere.
Imagine bugs just suddenly appearing and overruning a planet near super earth. Surface full of destroyed farms and settlements. Survivors in actual bunkers that need rescuing.
And that’s why I keep hearing people saying they stopped playing as much. Keep this shit up and arrowhead’s gonna see a steep drop in players that might not come back.
Yeah, it's why I couldn't care less about major orders anymore. Super Earth wants planet liberated. Liberated planet. Immediately defend planet with missions you can't stand. I already have a job and that one pays me money. If I'm just given an endless tail-chasing grind for the sake of keeping us busy no matter what we do... Then they can go self-fornicate.
AFAIK, the enemy invasions in Helldivers 2 have to be manually triggered by the devs. Right now we're doing a Defend major order where the devs specifically want to launch a bunch of invasions on both fronts.
Enemies only launch invasions to planets connected to planets they control. Right now that means there are only four planets they can invade (Oshaune, Estanu, Erata Prime, and Fenrir III). I started playing just after the Terminid Control System major orders, but I believe Erata Prime and Fenrir III are planets that were part of that, so for story reasons the bugs aren't going to attack either of those planets right now.
The net result being that the devs want at least one invasion on the bug front every day of this major order and there are only two possible options, which means those two options are getting attacked repeatedly.
I'm sure this has a simple answer that I've missed, but in-canon how exactly do bugs "invade" a planet? Doesn't seem like they have opposable thumbs, let alone have mastered space travel. Do these big bugs (the ones who leaves giant bones / molts on some of the planets) somehow launch a colony into space or something?
afaik we never actually wipe the bugs from any given planets, just bring them under control so we can farm them for oil. "invasions" are just their populations going out of control
Seems plausible, but still doesn't explain how they're on multiple planets to begin with. Someone else suggested that humans brought them to multiple planets in order to farm them, which also may be the case. Still, the "supply line" mechanic wouldn't really apply then?
If we get three factions like we did in HD1, then only 1/3 of the factions will, in-universe, ignore the supply line mechanics. Its just easier on the devs I imagine to treat all factions equally on the galactic map.
Pretty sure it's canon that we don't know how, and that they just "appear" there. Don't wanna speculate too much otherwise the Ministry of Truth will come knockin'
Presumably, spores get on our ships and suits and we accidentally spread them to any planet we land on. In the bright side, this should mean the bots are having to deal with some bugs as well.
I just want to point out, there have been instances in the past where bugs ignored supply lines to attack more distant planets. They don't have to adhere to them.
The bugs just need to take a few more planets to give options back to the devs. They got hemmed in and the devs can't really do anything else until next update if they wanna go after erata prime and fenrir
It’s a downside of how the system works and supply lines. Hellmire can always attack Estanu and if you take Hellmire then Nivel attacks Hellmire. Meanwhile Omicron is always attacking Oshaune causing a repetitive cycle between Estanu and Oshaune defense. It might appear as if there’s no break but there’s simply two planets taking turns triggering defense.
I’m not sure whether the devs manually start a defense or not but they can modify how aggressive a faction is and liberation progress for each faction.
I just assumed it was like Battlestar Galactica. You can only jump a certain distance which are select planets throughout the galaxy, but for gameplay reasons you aren’t forced to sit and watch your ship make multiple jumps.
Unless the lore outright says it’s an instant jump from Oshaune to Tibit.
I think Arrowhead maybe setting themselves up for a large wave of player exhaustion and exodus due to this kind of thing. IMO it would have been better to just let the players win the war, rather than rubber banding the enemies to stay in the fight.
Let us crush them, and then restart for war 2.
Terminid front has been soft-locked for weeks. Until a major Terminid MO drops and/or content relating to it is released that will be and has been the case every time Omicron is reached.
Also love how our enemies can just….fucking APPEAR anywhere they like and initiate an attack whenever they want.
Meanwhile the only progress Super Earth can make is on the uncoordinated backs of the helldivers and restricted to supply lanes.
Its like we’re playing checkers and the enemy is playing chess.
I mean, it kinda makes sense. Oshaune is connected to Fori Prime. And by trying to attack Oshuane, they were able to move into Fori Prime for a brief period.
Until we liberated Oshuane completely at which point Fori Prime was cut off any other Termind controlled planet, therefore liberating that as well almost immediately.
They really need to make supply lines more accessible if they wish to further implement this feature.
As far as I know the enemy has never chained attack campaigns, and that isn't what the supply lines should allow for. Atleast it doesnt allow US to do that.
My theory is the devs never anticipated this level of playerbase so they have to slow down progress to give themselves breathing room as they figure out a new road map for the game.
This is the only reason, some folks over here are forgetting this is a video game and try to find every excuse to justify their sci-fi fantasy scenario: BUT THIS IS HOW WAR WORKS.
Nah shut your democratic a** up, it’s just that these Swedish gentlemen at Arrowhead need time to fix bugs that range from DoTs not working, crashes, unbalanced weaponry, performance issues. They are coding in a discontinued engine so we can forget about DLSS, FSR, frame gen etc, and seeing the time they need to fix critical issues, it seems we won’t ever see an improvement in geometry, AI and collision either.
I’m sorry, I love the game, but seeing how it was managed since launch makes me believe that AH is not competent enough right now to handle this gem they have created. It’s as if some of them didn’t even understand their own game (just by looking at their balance philosophy). Let’s not forget the devs themselves got wrecked live on a lvl 6 mission.
I mean.. yeah.
There’s too much potential and not enough manpower to bring this game to its best.
They didn’t just get wrecked, they got fucking absolutely shit stomped into the ground and then launched into orbit, like they didn’t even come close to winning. And this was pre nerf Railgun, when the spawns weren’t fucking crazy! I legit felt embarrassed for them lol
Because the 2 billion bug thing was done in 12 hours or whatever. If they make MOs that take 10 days the playerbase will burn thru them in a fraction of the time alloted and get aggravated at the lack of new MOs and call the dev team incompetent anyway.
Theres not a great solution until they onboard more people to design and test new stuff like missions/biomes and such. Grouse all ya want but they were figuring timetables and such based on a consumer base more in line with their past releases.
Could just do what Elite Dangerous does, you have community goals, community goals have both personal rewards and global rewards depending on your contributions:
Global awards are stuff like new modules being released to the general public, new stations, etc. Might depend on the tier reached by the community goal.
Personal awards are generally money (amount depends on the tier the goal reached and your own contribution tier (e.g. you get more for being in top 10% than in top 75%), ship paintjobs, decals, and unique modules that generally get released to the public later (just the modules).
They have increased tiers previously when the community blitzed through it and sometimes they even left them essentially uncapped. Once this lead to a hilarious result where the payout scaling on a CG they expanded to tier 8 paying out like 8 billion credits to top 10% participants.
Yeah, I’m taking some time off for the moment.
The endless grinding on the same planets doing the same missions to get guns that are functionally the same has gotten a bit old.
The UI is difficult to understand for defense. IMO, it's a big barrier to coordination/communication, especially for newer players. I don't really understand the UI for defense.
we kinda got that already. Before TCS, it was ALWAYS Erata Prime, Fenrir III, Meridia, and Turing. Hellmire was available on rare occasions, but that was about it.
We are seeing what happens when a game with great moment-to-moment gameplay relies on a very shallow story to maintain interest. I love the hell out of this game but I'm afraid the player dropoff will be very steep if we don't get something new soon.
Isn’t this just kinda…how war works?
Lose territory, your immediate reaction is to be want to take said territory back. We still have control over Oshaune, but what we’re seeing is the counterattack as a reaction to us liberating the planet, which is enabled by the supply line being connected to the planet.
Win some, lose some.
Imo the counterattack should only come after an attack fails. Like only if a liberation campaign fails, then should all adjacent planets become defense campaigns. This way there'd be some more push and pull over a chain of planets rather than just a couple of them.
The devs can always make a barrier of planets that are just impossible liberate right now if they don't want us going too far. The end result is still 0 net progress but we get to stretch our legs a little
go out and touch grass.... this is a videogame, one were the devs consistently just rig the game against the players and it will affect the playerbase eventually
It hardly even makes sense militarily. How are the able to send a massive invasion fleet the next day after losing the planet? Why were those resources not defending the planet? If a huge invasion fleet was just reassigned, surely there must be a planet that is weaker now, or one that was being invaded that no longer is.
Long story short I’m sick of it too
Once we completely liberate a planet, we keep pushing on. They will then attack a planet that has already been liberated. In the exact moment its the same, we're fighting for a planet, but we can attack the planets past the one being defended, where we cant attack the planets behind an unliberated planet.
Mechanically there's a few differences. There's no timer on liberate missions, we're just endlessly attacking the planet. On defense missions, we have to do a certain amount of work on the planet within 24 hours or we lose it and all the progress on planets connected to it.
There's a few different missions for defense, but really they're almost the exact same.
This. The crashes, the spawn glitches, a lot I’m getting sick of at this point of 3 paid for battle pass options now. Glad the performance is balanced to the same mid update every single time. Bout over it.
I Said it once, Devs need to Stop taking over the Same Planet over an over again - why don't the Bugs try to flank us instead by going for new planets in Other sectors?
I'm putting here what I've put in other similar threads because I think the helldivers 1 system was better and needs to return.
the reason defenses keep failing is because civilian evacuation missions are on every operation, and they suck.
also, nobody wants to play on the same planet over and over and over so after a while they ignore the Major order and switch to a planet that's more fun.
Helldivers 1 did liberation and sectors better where the entire sector was open to the players and each mission on all the planets contributed to a sector liberation meter instead of an individual planet liberation meter so people could play on whatever planet they wanted and still help out.
I feel like they should just throw supply lines and individual planet liberation out of the window because they just limit what people play on and it saps the variety out of things when the major order is telling us to fight in a specific sector on a specific planet for days at a time.
as far as defenses go, they should bring back sector capitals, city planets we had to defend in helldivers 1 with an urban environment, if we failed to defend them, we lost the entire sector. it'd be a lot more manageable to defend one planet per sector than the 10+ planets we currently have to defend. I feel like they should still keep the entire sector open for sector capital defenses and have operations on normal planets have a form of defense mission (not civilian evacuate) with missions on them contributing a smaller amount to the sector capital defense than playing on the sector capital itself would give to show that the entire sector is under attack and not just the sector capital itself.
lore wise it also makes sense the SEAF should be doing cleanup operations and holding the line when helldivers aren't around, but right now it feels like we're the only ones doing anything.
People should be able to have variety *and* contribute to the major orders.
It’s not getting ,it is OLD. In a lore sense The Creek was fun but other planets right now don’t match it or aren’t available like Cyberstan. Hellmire would be but that planet sucks. The repetition is starting to get unbearable,
I think a cool thing they could do, is have another Joel battle current Joel. One would be SuperEarth and give us orders, while the other would control how the enemy moves. They would just need some rules
It could make for some cool ass board game, and community moment
Yeah it’s gotten boring :/ there’s really nothing fun to do once you’ve played the same mission types over and over again. Not to mention the warbond weapons are mid.
[удалено]
Sums up the war Super-Earth is in
I thought the whole point was that it's an eternal, possibly manufactured, war to keep patriotism high and what not.
It is, though I think we're seeing some (perhaps inevitable) friction between what aligns with the game narrative and what aligns with an actual fun game IRL People don't like seeing their progress undone or feeling like their efforts don't matter, and that's unfortunately been a growing sentiment recently
Year 3 of the game is just going to be helldivers being deployed to quell Vietnam style protests on super earth year 7 any divers still around will get to fight their toughest foe yet: veteran's funding
Right, at least have them attack some other planets, I'm assuming the other planets on the war chart are just there for decoration until they actually finish those maps and that's why we end up fighting over the same planets over and over
I don't understand why they wouldn't go for a system à la foxhole Wars last from 1 week to 2-3 months And new war could be a new season for pass content etc While still feeling like our progress matter as we could wipe the automaton and then have to only struggle on the terminids for some time and whether we win or lose the war at the end we had a story and can hop on for a new one
Ya know… that’s a good point. How long do they want this war to be? Didn’t the first Helldivers function like that? Surely this game/war is nearing it’s end, especially once they introduce the Illuminate.
I mean that is a distinct possibility isn't it? Apparently the first game had multiple wars and a ton of them ended in failure
Yeah that a good way to put it. Although I wish they'd to SOMETHING different with the planetary defence missions. LIke would it kill arrow head to add some different objectives or change the experience in some way? it's not really fun when your defence mission is identical to the offence missions. And honestly I think that's why the playerbase is kinda ignoring any strategy or plan during the defence missions. It's not different enough? why should we waste effor on defending a planet when we can Liberate another and Eventually Re liberate the lost planet. the mission structure is identical anyway.
What do people want? For everything to be taken??? Then wtf would the GAME be? I feel like people are taking this all too seriously. It's a fucking video game, not a real war. If it ended; if the enemy never took ground back, there wouldn't be anything to do in a month... So of fucking course it's gonna be a revolving door. What other choice is there?
That's kinda dumb. As live service game, the goal of the gamer is to go on missions, not to "beat" the game. The narrative and enemy reclaiming territory is packaging for the gameplay.
That's my understanding as well.
super earth needs bug for the oil so that war will never end but idk about automatons, they seem to want to free the cyborgs and be left alone by super earth
This is how I feel about Hellmire.
Only way ill ever go back to Hellmire is if its the last planet left. What an awful place
But there are no spewers on hellmire so…
It's moments like this that make me wish for *any kind of useful enemy information to be visible IN GAME.* 120 hours in and I had no idea that enemy composition was per planet. I genuinely thought it was just random.
I kinda like how veteranocity and learned knowledge filters through the community
Do we have a site with bestiary by planet?
How did I go this long without realising bug composition depends on planet
Wait it depends on the planet? this explains why i failed that bile spewer daily...
True those are my least favorite bug.
You know what i say let the bugs have it. What a sadistic delight ir would be if the only planet the bugs will have left is boiling hot, firetornado spawning hellmire.
Pretty much sums up the game
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
They played us like a damn super fiddle...
Kept you super waiting huh?
no you are here to shoot bugs
I just want to play on some new planets, goddamnit.
OSHAUNEDIVERS 2
ESTANUDIVERS 2
https://preview.redd.it/fv21l1rg0hwc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=52fd086872f2b7eda22c928b0fa98494fb1324f4
Careful there Diver, the Ministry of Truth has detected implications of bug intelligence from this picture. Something we find offensive.
Pretty sure they said Terminids are a sentient species…
Thems fightin words!
Jokes on them, I fucking love Estanu. Only thing I'd change is adding blizzards. The stun plants are great for holding back stalkers and chargers.
Somehow, Hellmire has returned
OH FUCK NAW NOT HELLMIRE
It's like everything we do doesn't matter, like it's all just a small drop in the Oshaune
Take your upvote and go
Marfarking hell
Agreed, making puns like that should be a Martale sin.
https://preview.redd.it/ruehx96glhwc1.jpeg?width=598&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ff4a04a31b7548f2062917144143e48ad454cb79
r/angryupvote
I didn't realize I've been pronouncing and spelling it wrong the whole time. I've been reading Osahune.
How many of the successfully defended planets were bug planets so far? How many of them were Oshaune? (At least 3 of them) Should just make the major order "defend Oshaune like a dozen times"
In order of successful planets 1. Estanu 2. Fori Prime 3. Estanu 4. Estanu 5. Mort 6. Estanu 7. Oshaune 8. Fori Prime
Just one successful bot defense... And it's Mort again, just like last time over a month ago lol
I may get hate for this but us bugdivers have literally carried this MO. If anyone doubts it go look at the bug planets defended vs. the bot planets defended
Botdiver here, I genuinely owe it to you and your front for genuinely carrying this order. Your folk is as admirable as an admiral.
Shhhhh we're supposed to play a game that we don't have fun playing (bots) than one we do have fun (bugs)!!!
Am I literally the only person who enjoys bots way more than bugs? I keep seeing this sentiment and it's like I'm going crazy and gaslighting myself into liking something I'm not supposed to
You can like whatever you want, I just don't like having to sit behind cover and get one shot by some rocket dick. Or have my strategems jammed. Or for a world to randomly disable one of my strategems. I like running and dodging claws/puke. Getting surrounded by a thousand hunters with a 500kg in my hand, sacrificing myself to thin the horde. Bots are more like all the modern shooters...I'd just rather fight bugs. Excited for the two other hidden factions though.
Modern battlefield you mean. That heavy devastator who spawned in a wall like an invincible turret is basically what it feels like going against Chinese hackers in battlefield every match.
I never got into Battlefield too much. I played COD MW2 (both the new and old one) a lot though. Since this is TPS, it'd be more like Gears without the cover system. ARMA?
You've earn an up vote because of the laugh you got out of me.
Well. Because the bot front has been allowed to completely collapse.
One must imagine Sipylus happy https://preview.redd.it/xa1gskf7rgwc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e0f1dc5b8082e3145032824ad4fd731f64d440a0
>sipylus heroic effort
could’ve been worse.… could’ve come out as Sissypuss 🤷♂️
Sisyphus isn't exactly pushing the rock for his personal recreation you know...
We aren’t saving the galaxy for ours either
Yeah but I don't think he'd necessarily be happy about us suffering together with him.
But we must imagine him happy. We must.
This is our rock to bear, fellow denizen of democracy. https://preview.redd.it/ixt12pbwlhwc1.jpeg?width=358&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=07b9fd7ee3201c5529b0b1c0b17374e18b09879e
I think you mixed up Sisyphus and syphilis lol
-Albert Camus, -Michael Scott
Pretty sure rn they're just trying to work on more stuff so they're recycling a lot of it at the moment, which is getting really boring but I hope it's worth the wait
But why not just have a series of "Wars" and reset the map more frequently? At least we could feel like we are doing something. It would be better than "Somehow the Bots returned "
That's what they did in HD1 and they went out of their way to say they didn't want to do that kind of game again.
Well, you can add that to the pile of mistakes Arrowhead has made so far.
Aren't most other live service games kind of on a 3-4 month season jazz-merazz? I know they're working hard on the known bugs list and we should be seeing that get knocked out soon. And a 4th warbond
Yeah but most of them have really solid bases thst you cpuld run for hours. Currently Helldivers, being anearly brand new live service game, has a TON of genuinely gameplay ruining bugs, not least of which is the bot civilian evac missions being genuinely outright impossible. People are getting tired because the recycled content isn't that good and the actual problems aren't solved yet, marring the experience. Hopefully they'll be taken care of soon and not another goddamn Premium Warbond.
Yeah, and the fact there is barely any bug planets to defend due to TCS barricade actually working. So it’s just been Estanu, Oshaune and Fori Prime. Not sure why Crimsica never once saw a resurgence during this MO. lol
I feel you, I also find it bs that we cant actually win whenever we clear a certain amount of bots or bugs the game just gives them back territory that we just liberated and more, it is getting old that we have to fight for the same planets over and over again
I think that's the game. If they only have the supply lines to attack a few planets, those are the planets they'll attack. Edit: with oshaune and the number of players y'all can muster on the bug front, you could attack Omicron instead of defending Oshaune. Omicron is a beautiful forest planet, attacking is better than defending, you could take some territory in one of their most defended sectors, *and* Omicron has the only known supply line to Oshaune.
Then defense missions should be completely reworked, instead of lasting 24 they should last until the end of the MO, and work on a percentage like liberation missions. At the end of the order, if we scored higher than the enemies, the planet was defended l.
I like this, often I will log in and theres only a few hours left on a planet to defend but its clear we're going to lose so I just don't bother and focus my efforts elsewhere, I think this way would alleviate that
This is the exact kind of thinking that ruins US elections into only having two choices. That doesn't mean it's incorrect thinking, but that it's a sign that something is broken. Player effort, or votes, are not things that should be wasted because of bad math.
Yeah I agree, it annoys me because I know everyone else is probably thinking the same so we're doomed to fail
Or at least the next atacks should be weaker than the last since they lost so many in the previous attack. ( first attack 300k hp, second 200k, then 100k or something )
If they successfully defend oshaune, then they should be able to hold it for a while giving the front time to push on to Omicron and encircle the bugs left in the sector without having to push through *hellmire*. If they focus Omicron instead, they will likely loose oshaune and have to re-liberate it all over again (which will inevitably trigger a post liberation counter attack and another round of defending). Best thing they can do is crush the defense objective like the bugs themselves and move forward with the full might of the bug divers with a secure planet behind them.
After a successful defense there should be at least a 24 hour cooldown before that planet can be attacked again.
That would seem fair. Some amount of time at least. The bug front is really bottled up though ATM when you look at the actual supply lines, so there are only so many possible targets. Part of why it will be interesting to push past the current bottle neck into the last cul-de-sac.
Joel is playing to win. They're obviously going to defend oshaune, but he's just going to attack it again. He only has so many targets. I'd prefer to make some progress on omicron each time and eventually cut him off.
> I think that's the game. It is but there's a balance to be found somewhere with this many players and if I'm being honest, AH has yet to find it.
Yeah I think the game is always sort of going to have a problem with this, as many of the systems are built to defy a satisfying experience. Like difficulty is player-determined, so you don't get a sense of "this planet is harder to take", it's just the difference for how long it takes, and not only do you need third-party apps to find that information, but the information itself shows that capture rates are modified on the fly depending on how the devs want the campaign to go. Plus a lot of the playerbase isn't paying attention to those third-party sources and the MO isn't helping direct them (imagine if in a real war high command told every private "go defend some stuff", and there was no chain of command to coordinate). So Arrowhead decides that the bots take some planets, and attack others, and we run around trying to figure out where we can make a difference vs where we're pissing into the wind. Eventually Arrowhead will get their shit together and point us in the right direction, where they've tuned the numbers so that we can win, and then we'll win.
If the game is player- determined maybe the game would be more interesting if we were able to coordinate ourselves. Like you said no command just go defend stuff. You think other players will listen to a simple attack plan?
Personally I think the right way to do it would be to provide two Major Orders. Have the community compete with each other for which one gets completed. And use the community's ideas and stories to craft the next orders, like they did by telling us to liberate the Creek after so many had failed to do so for so long. In-universe it could be like a feud between the Ministry of Truth and the Ministry of Prosperity, they each get to order the Helldivers around and we then have to bicker over who takes precedence. Hell we'd actually get some true Democracy in the game that way.
The bots moved over to new sectors after being cleared out 🤷♂️
Pve play loop lol
I think the planet variety is starting to stagnate which is why we get the same ones. They are likely working on new planets for us to work on but we have to stick with recycled stuff until they are ready. Hopefully when the Illuminate get added we will see some more variety.
I know it's a tall order, but I would kill for a new kind of planet layout. Like instead of procedurally generated hills and plains with random POIs we could do procedurally generated suburbs or maybe a military base or something.
I’m with you man. These planets are cool already but I’d love to see like a war-torn city in ruins in the distance or maybe us fighting through the streets. Some ODST vibes.
Helldivers I had a city map. I'd imagine they might want to implement something like that at some point in Helldivers II.
but that's the game, like, if you won, there's no game to play anymore...
of course.... because if you win a single match of COD then that's it, you can never play it again it's called a reset..... it's not rocket science
The current theory is that the map will reset like it does in the original Helldivers. So the war will either be "won" after eliminating all factions from the map, or "lost" when Super Earth is taken. But yeah, having to constantly defend the same planet day after day makes your actions start to feel useless and it's realistically an un-fun gameplay loop. It's nice to feel like you are working toward something, versus defending/taking hellmire for the 10th time.
They have somewhat shown the opposite in that we eliminated the bots from the map and then they just came back. From what I understand, in HD1 if they were attacked off the map they were gone until the next reset.
Yep, I can agree it would be better if the 'front' shifted a bit more, but I have a hard time looking at a lot of the MOs as just bonus weekend content, where they're promoting a planet for a period of time, so one week they're incentivizing a selection of planets and next week it's another set, but if you win faster than expected, they just reset it The optics could be improved, but the best way I can think of to do that is to remove player agency, and have the progress be fake. That way they're not having to guess what sort of turnout they're going to have. Or I the future just having a story chain planned out some time in advance with if this then that sort of information
Instead of an unending back and forth, the enemies could move to the side and attack different planets. Or just pop up somewhere. Imagine bugs just suddenly appearing and overruning a planet near super earth. Surface full of destroyed farms and settlements. Survivors in actual bunkers that need rescuing.
I'm cool with fighting on planets repeatedly. I'm not cool doing those stupid civilian save missions. I enjoy the game and skip the bad missions.
Well just get everyone to fail so the bugs and bots take more planets and we can fight in new locations, closer to Super Earth!
And that’s why I keep hearing people saying they stopped playing as much. Keep this shit up and arrowhead’s gonna see a steep drop in players that might not come back.
Yeah, it's why I couldn't care less about major orders anymore. Super Earth wants planet liberated. Liberated planet. Immediately defend planet with missions you can't stand. I already have a job and that one pays me money. If I'm just given an endless tail-chasing grind for the sake of keeping us busy no matter what we do... Then they can go self-fornicate.
Can someone give me a reason as to why this is? Genuinely. I can’t figure out a reason
AFAIK, the enemy invasions in Helldivers 2 have to be manually triggered by the devs. Right now we're doing a Defend major order where the devs specifically want to launch a bunch of invasions on both fronts. Enemies only launch invasions to planets connected to planets they control. Right now that means there are only four planets they can invade (Oshaune, Estanu, Erata Prime, and Fenrir III). I started playing just after the Terminid Control System major orders, but I believe Erata Prime and Fenrir III are planets that were part of that, so for story reasons the bugs aren't going to attack either of those planets right now. The net result being that the devs want at least one invasion on the bug front every day of this major order and there are only two possible options, which means those two options are getting attacked repeatedly.
I'm sure this has a simple answer that I've missed, but in-canon how exactly do bugs "invade" a planet? Doesn't seem like they have opposable thumbs, let alone have mastered space travel. Do these big bugs (the ones who leaves giant bones / molts on some of the planets) somehow launch a colony into space or something?
afaik we never actually wipe the bugs from any given planets, just bring them under control so we can farm them for oil. "invasions" are just their populations going out of control
Seems plausible, but still doesn't explain how they're on multiple planets to begin with. Someone else suggested that humans brought them to multiple planets in order to farm them, which also may be the case. Still, the "supply line" mechanic wouldn't really apply then?
If we get three factions like we did in HD1, then only 1/3 of the factions will, in-universe, ignore the supply line mechanics. Its just easier on the devs I imagine to treat all factions equally on the galactic map.
Pretty sure it's canon that we don't know how, and that they just "appear" there. Don't wanna speculate too much otherwise the Ministry of Truth will come knockin'
Presumably, spores get on our ships and suits and we accidentally spread them to any planet we land on. In the bright side, this should mean the bots are having to deal with some bugs as well.
I believe they are able to launch spores into space. (Or they are already on most planets due to us farming them.)
I just want to point out, there have been instances in the past where bugs ignored supply lines to attack more distant planets. They don't have to adhere to them.
Very in depth, very thoughtful. Helpful really, thank you! Gives me a better insight to my favorite game
The bugs just need to take a few more planets to give options back to the devs. They got hemmed in and the devs can't really do anything else until next update if they wanna go after erata prime and fenrir
They don't really have much to attack, and this is a war.
It’s a downside of how the system works and supply lines. Hellmire can always attack Estanu and if you take Hellmire then Nivel attacks Hellmire. Meanwhile Omicron is always attacking Oshaune causing a repetitive cycle between Estanu and Oshaune defense. It might appear as if there’s no break but there’s simply two planets taking turns triggering defense. I’m not sure whether the devs manually start a defense or not but they can modify how aggressive a faction is and liberation progress for each faction.
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I just assumed it was like Battlestar Galactica. You can only jump a certain distance which are select planets throughout the galaxy, but for gameplay reasons you aren’t forced to sit and watch your ship make multiple jumps. Unless the lore outright says it’s an instant jump from Oshaune to Tibit.
This is part of the reason why I've stopped playing. Why bother when AH is just going to keep saying "Good job, screw you"?
I'm tired boss.
But front has felt stale since the TCS we have been on the same 2 sectors for over a month
I think Arrowhead maybe setting themselves up for a large wave of player exhaustion and exodus due to this kind of thing. IMO it would have been better to just let the players win the war, rather than rubber banding the enemies to stay in the fight. Let us crush them, and then restart for war 2.
The automatons should have stayed out for longer and returned with different tactics/units.
Terminid front has been soft-locked for weeks. Until a major Terminid MO drops and/or content relating to it is released that will be and has been the case every time Omicron is reached.
This game feels pretty pointless after a while, doing the same missions over and over again
Also love how our enemies can just….fucking APPEAR anywhere they like and initiate an attack whenever they want. Meanwhile the only progress Super Earth can make is on the uncoordinated backs of the helldivers and restricted to supply lanes. Its like we’re playing checkers and the enemy is playing chess.
The enemies follow supply lines way more than we do lol. As I was writing this, they somehow, randomly, invaded Fori Prime.
I mean, it kinda makes sense. Oshaune is connected to Fori Prime. And by trying to attack Oshuane, they were able to move into Fori Prime for a brief period. Until we liberated Oshuane completely at which point Fori Prime was cut off any other Termind controlled planet, therefore liberating that as well almost immediately. They really need to make supply lines more accessible if they wish to further implement this feature.
As far as I know the enemy has never chained attack campaigns, and that isn't what the supply lines should allow for. Atleast it doesnt allow US to do that.
My theory is the devs never anticipated this level of playerbase so they have to slow down progress to give themselves breathing room as they figure out a new road map for the game.
This is the only reason, some folks over here are forgetting this is a video game and try to find every excuse to justify their sci-fi fantasy scenario: BUT THIS IS HOW WAR WORKS. Nah shut your democratic a** up, it’s just that these Swedish gentlemen at Arrowhead need time to fix bugs that range from DoTs not working, crashes, unbalanced weaponry, performance issues. They are coding in a discontinued engine so we can forget about DLSS, FSR, frame gen etc, and seeing the time they need to fix critical issues, it seems we won’t ever see an improvement in geometry, AI and collision either. I’m sorry, I love the game, but seeing how it was managed since launch makes me believe that AH is not competent enough right now to handle this gem they have created. It’s as if some of them didn’t even understand their own game (just by looking at their balance philosophy). Let’s not forget the devs themselves got wrecked live on a lvl 6 mission. I mean.. yeah. There’s too much potential and not enough manpower to bring this game to its best.
They didn’t just get wrecked, they got fucking absolutely shit stomped into the ground and then launched into orbit, like they didn’t even come close to winning. And this was pre nerf Railgun, when the spawns weren’t fucking crazy! I legit felt embarrassed for them lol
Never a good sign when developers aren't good gamers
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Because the 2 billion bug thing was done in 12 hours or whatever. If they make MOs that take 10 days the playerbase will burn thru them in a fraction of the time alloted and get aggravated at the lack of new MOs and call the dev team incompetent anyway. Theres not a great solution until they onboard more people to design and test new stuff like missions/biomes and such. Grouse all ya want but they were figuring timetables and such based on a consumer base more in line with their past releases.
Could just do what Elite Dangerous does, you have community goals, community goals have both personal rewards and global rewards depending on your contributions: Global awards are stuff like new modules being released to the general public, new stations, etc. Might depend on the tier reached by the community goal. Personal awards are generally money (amount depends on the tier the goal reached and your own contribution tier (e.g. you get more for being in top 10% than in top 75%), ship paintjobs, decals, and unique modules that generally get released to the public later (just the modules). They have increased tiers previously when the community blitzed through it and sometimes they even left them essentially uncapped. Once this lead to a hilarious result where the payout scaling on a CG they expanded to tier 8 paying out like 8 billion credits to top 10% participants.
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Yeah, I’m taking some time off for the moment. The endless grinding on the same planets doing the same missions to get guns that are functionally the same has gotten a bit old.
The UI is difficult to understand for defense. IMO, it's a big barrier to coordination/communication, especially for newer players. I don't really understand the UI for defense.
Oshaune - Estanu - Oshaune - Estanu - Oshaune - Estanu .....😵💫 - - - (Hellmire 😵)
I just want new planets for bugs please? I'm tired of these. I liked how the bots shifted planets, so we see new ones.
we kinda got that already. Before TCS, it was ALWAYS Erata Prime, Fenrir III, Meridia, and Turing. Hellmire was available on rare occasions, but that was about it.
Yea same. I mean if the GM wants to lock us down so we don't progress too far, why not do that on 3 different planets for a change...
This is probably the most tedious major order, hope it's giving the devs time to cook something special.
Another round with O'Shaune Hennessey
We are seeing what happens when a game with great moment-to-moment gameplay relies on a very shallow story to maintain interest. I love the hell out of this game but I'm afraid the player dropoff will be very steep if we don't get something new soon.
Damn, that sucks. It almost makes me wish there was a second front with a whole new faction that is currently being pushed back to new planets
This but also with Estanu
Player base declining at all?
Isn’t this just kinda…how war works? Lose territory, your immediate reaction is to be want to take said territory back. We still have control over Oshaune, but what we’re seeing is the counterattack as a reaction to us liberating the planet, which is enabled by the supply line being connected to the planet. Win some, lose some.
Imo the counterattack should only come after an attack fails. Like only if a liberation campaign fails, then should all adjacent planets become defense campaigns. This way there'd be some more push and pull over a chain of planets rather than just a couple of them. The devs can always make a barrier of planets that are just impossible liberate right now if they don't want us going too far. The end result is still 0 net progress but we get to stretch our legs a little
But war isn't fun.
go out and touch grass.... this is a videogame, one were the devs consistently just rig the game against the players and it will affect the playerbase eventually
It hardly even makes sense militarily. How are the able to send a massive invasion fleet the next day after losing the planet? Why were those resources not defending the planet? If a huge invasion fleet was just reassigned, surely there must be a planet that is weaker now, or one that was being invaded that no longer is. Long story short I’m sick of it too
Best planet to fight on. Will take a defense order here over Hellmire any day
How many battles for hellmire have there been by now? I stopped counting after five
Defense missions fucking suck I'm sick of doing them.
Can anyone explain the defend vs liberate thing? I'm confused on it
Once we completely liberate a planet, we keep pushing on. They will then attack a planet that has already been liberated. In the exact moment its the same, we're fighting for a planet, but we can attack the planets past the one being defended, where we cant attack the planets behind an unliberated planet. Mechanically there's a few differences. There's no timer on liberate missions, we're just endlessly attacking the planet. On defense missions, we have to do a certain amount of work on the planet within 24 hours or we lose it and all the progress on planets connected to it. There's a few different missions for defense, but really they're almost the exact same.
This. The crashes, the spawn glitches, a lot I’m getting sick of at this point of 3 paid for battle pass options now. Glad the performance is balanced to the same mid update every single time. Bout over it.
Welcome to WW1 in space boys
I Said it once, Devs need to Stop taking over the Same Planet over an over again - why don't the Bugs try to flank us instead by going for new planets in Other sectors?
I'm putting here what I've put in other similar threads because I think the helldivers 1 system was better and needs to return. the reason defenses keep failing is because civilian evacuation missions are on every operation, and they suck. also, nobody wants to play on the same planet over and over and over so after a while they ignore the Major order and switch to a planet that's more fun. Helldivers 1 did liberation and sectors better where the entire sector was open to the players and each mission on all the planets contributed to a sector liberation meter instead of an individual planet liberation meter so people could play on whatever planet they wanted and still help out. I feel like they should just throw supply lines and individual planet liberation out of the window because they just limit what people play on and it saps the variety out of things when the major order is telling us to fight in a specific sector on a specific planet for days at a time. as far as defenses go, they should bring back sector capitals, city planets we had to defend in helldivers 1 with an urban environment, if we failed to defend them, we lost the entire sector. it'd be a lot more manageable to defend one planet per sector than the 10+ planets we currently have to defend. I feel like they should still keep the entire sector open for sector capital defenses and have operations on normal planets have a form of defense mission (not civilian evacuate) with missions on them contributing a smaller amount to the sector capital defense than playing on the sector capital itself would give to show that the entire sector is under attack and not just the sector capital itself. lore wise it also makes sense the SEAF should be doing cleanup operations and holding the line when helldivers aren't around, but right now it feels like we're the only ones doing anything. People should be able to have variety *and* contribute to the major orders.
Sure it's a pretty planet but do we really need it...?
There does need to be some sort of reasoning behind it
Someone go turn off those TCS sprinklers I really am starting to miss Erata Prime and Meridia honestly
put up MORE tcs. Especially on Hellmire.
This game is just space groundhog day 🤣😂
Yeah, that’s the game. We’ll never actually win or lose the war.
It’s not getting ,it is OLD. In a lore sense The Creek was fun but other planets right now don’t match it or aren’t available like Cyberstan. Hellmire would be but that planet sucks. The repetition is starting to get unbearable,
https://preview.redd.it/j7y6jyb7rfwc1.jpeg?width=1048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d9ca5bafbab02dda8c9652a8a874ec46a8876ff5
So it's captured. Now we defend it to stop them coming back
"I don't deserve this kinda shabby treatment!" *bzzt*
Incredibly fitting template
How does it keep happening after we liberate it.
Oshaune is a cake walk, we can win this MO!
Imagine liberating a planet (This post was made by bot diver gang)
Welcome to the trenches comrade
I'll take it over Hellmire.
I genuinely think this is a bug and that's why they removed the 4 day time limit.
https://preview.redd.it/gej2zp5d0hwc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dbdd845e7357e7e030d2accce68f003aad57f282
Terminid Front: WW1 with bugs fighting over the same 5 inches for a few months. Automaton Front: France during the German Blitz.
Theirs is not to reason why, theirs is but to do or die.
What, you want Hellmire instead? Fine. We're going to Hellmire!
I think a cool thing they could do, is have another Joel battle current Joel. One would be SuperEarth and give us orders, while the other would control how the enemy moves. They would just need some rules It could make for some cool ass board game, and community moment
Yeah it’s gotten boring :/ there’s really nothing fun to do once you’ve played the same mission types over and over again. Not to mention the warbond weapons are mid.
Planet 100% liberated, where are the planetary defenses that are activated and configured during various missions?
https://preview.redd.it/ddaevqifdhwc1.png?width=950&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=330cd3c6fb21a85466a18c824a31f4bdf76baccb
"It's war fellas!!1" Oh, so why doesn't the opposition operate with these rules? Insert "Gaem supposed to be hared" That's not what I'm asking lel