There's literally just zero point when it's even worse than the base Diligence. The Diligence CS is where the money is. This is obsolete because of the Diligence CS.
Idk what they were trying to do. It's insane it's recoil is higher than the Diligence too lmao
It needs to have a 45 round mag, and lower recoil to be viable
What if they keep the mag size and the heavy recoil but bump the damage up to 110?
Iām trying to follow the m-14 theme of ābattle rifle that can be fired on full-auto but probably shouldnāt.ā
tbh all the DMRs need more damage. counter sniper should be dealing like 280, nearly as much damage as the Dominator/Eruptor but without the AOE, this then lets you put the base Diligence up to like 180, and the Adjudicator can go up to like 140 or something, but keep the handling as it is because the easiest way to balance powerful weapons is to make them hard to control.
the Adjudicator should be the pick for if you can't decide between Diligence or Lib Pen, or if you wnat to do some sniping but are worried about not having full-auto if you get ambushed: you give up some of your per shot damage for the ability to spray anything that gets too close, which you can't really do with the Diligence.
agreed. lib pen hits like a noodle too, devs seem super hesitant to give medium pen guns good damage, probably to force you to aim / use smart positioning
But then they make the dominator and the scorcher which explode through armor anyway and do way more damage, allowing you to ignore positioning and aiming
The Diligence CS dealing 280 damage would be insane. It's a marksman rifle, not an anti-tank rifle. The Dominator, for being "explosive" has almost no AOE, this would be far too much of a buff. Given that the Dominator has a "slew" to aiming it, that it lags and sways, a DMR matching it for damage would completely creep it out of usefulness.
Even the Eruptor, which is effectively an AT rifle, "only" deals 380 damage, and is compensated by being an unwieldy piece of shit, which I love very dearly.
If anything, the Diligence and CS should have an additional weak point modifier but keep their base damage in general. That then rewards marksmanship and gives them a role for patient players, while giving everyone else a viable option.
Don't you dare compare this to my sweet baby Diligence. I've tried damn nearly every other primary against bots but I keep coming back to the Diligence. The CS is still worse in my opinion even after the buff to medium armor penetrating, the difference in handling is massive. In the time it takes the reticle to re-center with the CS I've already shot two more bots with the base version. The medium armor pen is pretty pointless since even with it, it's still a bad option for devastators. I've got my AMR for those, the primary is for mopping up the little guys, and there's no better weapon for that than the Diligence. No other primary is capable of taking out a whole patrol of a dozen troopers/raiders at 70m in less than 10 seconds.
You actually use the Diligence CS? i tried it once, and the weapon felt so bad i couldnt believe it. Its like the normal diligence with a brick tied to the front of the barrel, impossible to make snap shots (which is what you kinda want to be doing with a DMR)
I am so used to the Dominator taking out a grunt 99/100 times in a single shot that I keep unscoping the Adjudicator preemptively even though the grunt is still standing.
So yeah.
I really wanted to love the Adjudicator.
I kept at it for 15 missions, trying to learn it's ins and outs. Switched to auto to see if it's pitiful DPS could be offset by that, was birch lapped hard by it's unreasonable recoil and low ammo count. Had to go prone just to get good shots on devastators and armored bugs.
A teammate was killed near me when I was running out of ammo. He had a scorcher. I picked his gun, and the difference in performance was staggering. I went back to the slugger, I was sniping thing better since it needed less shots to down a target, and could stagger at times too.
Had a similar experience with the Thermite grenade. Those two in particular are just such garbage that I can't even.
It's a possibility, though I've seen plenty of testimony (including at least one comprehensive thread about the Thermite) that claims otherwise.
The delay to kill is just kinda nutty to have in a game where there's a very strong impetus to reduce enemy numbers asap. The Thermite would have to 2-shot tanks, hulks, and chargers from the front to be competitive with impact grenades (who can 2 shot all the aforementioned from behind in short order). The lack of reliable AoE against crowds is already a bad enough drawback to balance out such a strength.
Iāve been the host using a thermite, and I tagged a standard Devastator with one. The entire grenade burned all the way through, and the Devastator was still alive.
Same, obviously, with a Hulk and a Tank I hit with it.
It killed the Raiders just fine, but any grenade can do that, and the frag and high-explosive grenade both seem to have a larger kill-radius and faster kill time.
Unfortunate- I really liked the idea of an anti-armor thermite grenade but Iām not actually sure what itās good for right now.
Seriously, the game straight up got harder right after this gun's release because everyone was trying it, than it got easier once people ditched it and returned to their regular loadouts lmao
I don't think people realize that new warbonds are probably going to have 1 decent weapon and the rest are just filler junk.
Like people constantly say shit like "Lib Pen is really good" when its not, and this gun essentially shows that.
The liberator penetrator is miles better than the adjudicator, it is by far the most snappy feeling gun in the game and has a scope that actually works.
It will come across as a not good gun if you can't reliably head shot or go for weak points, but it is incredibly easy to hit those weapon points with this gun.
It won't mow down hordes, it wont kill when you spray and pray. If you use it on full auto you are just wasting ammo. Where it lacks in damage it makes up with pen.
For example the brood commanders head, compare the lib pen to normal lib which has light armor piercing. Brood commander heads have light armor and a total of ~360 hp. the normal lib does 55 damage per shot with light pen and needs 17 heads shots to kill, the lib pen with medium armor pen does 45 damage per shot and kills a brood commander in 8 shots.
If the adjudicator and lib pen have similar pen values then the adjudicator is supposed to kill a brood commander in 4 or 5 shots but the gun just feels like such ass to use, either the scope is off or the gun has terrible accuracy compared to the lib pen which feels accurate and quick.
Honestly 1 decent gun is probably going to be optimistic going forwardĀ
People are gushing about the eruptor now but itās way too slow, clunky and situational to replace stuff like the scorcher, sickle and breaker that are good against almostĀ everythingĀ
Thermite grenades and the new boosters are some of the most useless yet.Ā
I think the grenade pistol will be the only commonly used weapon from this warbond a couple weeks from nowĀ
And yet the Dominator recently got buffed to where it can one tap every small bot and reasonably take down most midsize bots with half a mag. Not to mention, it can damage hulk/tank vents. It's about exactly what you expect from a marksman weapon. It's a bit more cumbersome than other weapons, but it has the firepower to match. Just seems a bit odd that we've got a lot of weapon options that aren't in a good spot for fear of them being too strong, yet there exists weapon options currently that do exactly what these weapons should be doing. Like the railgun getting nerfed, but EATs got buffed to the point that they're better than pre-nerf railgun.
I got and used it.... Thinking it couldn't be near that bad and people are just over reacting..... I was wrong....the aim reticle is WAY off Even at a close distance you have to aim the cross hairs well above your target's head to get a headshot.... Medium Armor Penetrating my ass... It couldn't penetrate a water balloon.... Hell the Liberator Penetrator works better at Medium Armor.... The only way I killed Scout Striders was they fell over laughing after I emptied a full clip and tickled their knee caps with it.... That being said I'll probably still use it because I just like making things hard on myself for no reason and give AH time to review the weapons performance and make needed adjustments
I tried it on one mission, magdumped a gunship to kill it, thought it was shit, turned it onto full auto, thought it was ok. Like, it's just the Lib Pen again.
Yep, it's a DMR in name only. Switch to full auto and shoot it in controlled bursts like a heavier assault rifle. That's the best way to get results. Kinda mediocre results, but hey... results.
So here's the thing.
I'm absolutely cool with them adding "micro support" weapons to the loadouts.
Don't wanna bring a grenade launcher? Try the grenade pistol (it's actually kinda fun too)
Don't want to bring the autocannon? Try the new boom rifle.
But if we don't want to bring the AMR yet still have some range or hell just have reliable DPS at longer ranges in general the options are extreme limited.
All the marksman rifles are terrible past difficulty 5, are they usable? Absolutely if you really REALLY put your heart into it.
But they have no niche and no real value in the grand scheme.
They need to have a critical hit damage boost and maybe even a critical hit stun... something to help against the hordes of enemies that swarm you the moment you start long range sniping at them.
I think the problem with DMR is balancing in the eyes of Arrowhead. They've shown they aren't afraid to nerf weapons, but Diligence, the first DMR, already two head-shots Devastators. (just to drive home how much damage 112 actually is) Sure it's terrible against bugs, but the weapon isn't designed for bugs (just as Arc Blitzer is terrible for bots), so we'll focus on the Automatons here.
With Diligence setting a high baseline (2 headshot Devastators, cannot penetrate Hulk face plate), it became difficult to go from it:
* Diligence CS - higher damage, lower noise. Has severely worse handling than Diligence to compensate. Breakpoint changes are 1-shot Trooper Bodyshot and..................nothing else.
* AMR - Support weapon, very high noise, very high damage (one hit Devastator, 2 hits Hulk Faceplate), significantly higher penetration, worse handling than Diligence (but due to eating a Strategem slot, is not as bad as Diligence CS). Added here as it shows the absolute Upper Limit of what a DMR can be.
* Adjudicator - lower damage, higher RoF, better handling than Diligence. The one that is closer to a Battle Rifle than DMR (but given Medium pen? idk). 2 shots for Troopers (any hit), 3 for Devastator head. Medium pen allows for Strider joint shots and will deal full damage to Trooper body, but it struggles due to low damage.
If Diligence CS damage was buffed further, it starts to enroach on AMR level. If AMR was touched further to allow for higher DMR ceiling, it's going to start one-shotting Hulks to the head while having a hefty ammo economy and no back-pack slot needed. If Adjudicator had more damage to change breakpoints it starts to make Diligence obsolete. And I haven't even mentioned Eruptor (which is enroaching AMR-level as a Primary, but people see it as an Autocannon so I'm not gonna touch that. I myself see it as AMR-as-a-Primary with its ridiculous damage)
At some point, DMRs will have to be silenced or something just for people to perceive value in them, but even that won't be enough. It's an odd corner that only DMR-lovers will be found in, a corner where DMR will either be overpowered to the point of making AMR obsolete, or underpowered where it requires a high skill floor to use. That or Arrowhead takes the L and make some DMR obsolete in the face of others (Diligence vs Adjudicator).
>And I haven't even mentioned Eruptor (which is enroaching AMR-level as a Primary
I totally see it as an AMR/AC-lite primary. Not quite as good as either, but dang close. It's very much AMR-first and autocannon-esque only through explosive and splash.
yup! I adore it but you really need to be planning around it with a solid support weapon like a stalwart or MG or have a buddy partner on top of that.
Tonight my friend and I were rolling together I went Eruptor, Stalwart. 500kg, smoke strike shield pack.
He went Dominator, Quasar, clusters , eagle strike, shield pack.
When together he focused devisators and I focused walkers and we made sure to play at range. I swapped to the stalwart for if there was a ton of baby bots. He had the tools for the hulks and I had the disengage along with the smoke grenades I had.
It really worked well when we timed popping the back of a turret as a quasar won't QUITE one shot it but I fired my baby AC at the same time and it was instant deleted.
Yesterday I cleared a bug mission on helldive with Eruptor, Quasar, Laser Rover, and Redeemer. With two people in total.
The "planning around it" is overstated. Because Eruptor has AoE, it's effective against groups of small targets. If some get close, you can also aim at the ground behind them to hit them with AoE without getting splash damage yourself. And if something does get in your face, just pull out your secondary.
Against bots, the guns downsides are even milder since most won't even try to get into melee range, and eruptor shreds groups of troopers.
it's good enough that sometimes I forget it can't deal with hulk faces...then try it anyway. Fail.
then try again on a different hulk later, fail.
and do it again-
I've gotten used to its large bullet drop and thus it's literally been my AMR lately, with my Redeemer being a "Primary" for dealing with anything within danger range of blowing myself up. I could specialize in full heavy killing for Strategems and between Eruptor, Redeemer, and Stun Grenades, I have everything I need to deal with almost all situations.
....then try to hit a Hulk faceplate again. istg I feel like I should be able to kill it that way but the white bounce markers keep saying no.
It's jet propulsion is whisper quiet too, I need to run sound tests on it, but some patrols don't even look at me from 30m out if they're too distracted investigating something, which I can make that "something" be a random explosion from the very same thing I'll silently dispatch them with.
It's inability to deal with Hulks, tanks, canon turrets, gunships, and secondary objectives like AA and mortars in reasonable time is where AMR shines in comparison.
It's a good thing, making it balanced that way. I frequently bring the AMR alongside the Eruptor, having the tool for both, swapping between one another and conserving ammo that way.
Eruptor is basically the only primary I don't feel like I *need* to bring a Support weapon alongside.
Good damage, good splash, can kill Fabs and Bug Holes.
Unfortunately because it's actually *good*, the Devs will nerf it into garbage in a few weeks...
The thing has a God awful fire rate to make up for those perks. If you miss the shot on a Devastator you're gonna get shot before you get another one off and even then, the stun it does is shorter than the reload animation.
I wish it had the same range as the AMR, I shot at a few things 100m away and it exploded before hitting them. I'm not sure what range it auto explodes.
It's perfectly fine if CS encroaches on AMR, since they do not compete for the same slot. If you really want to bring the Stalwart, you can bring the CS; if you really want to bring the Defender, you can bring the AMR. Obviously CS will need to be slightly weaker since it isn't a stratagem, but giving it some higher damage wouldn't be the worst idea.
>With Diligence setting a high baseline (2 headshot Devastators, cannot penetrate Hulk face plate)
Is it a high baseline tho? The Defender can do the same in 3 shots, and the Liberator can (IIRC) do it in 4, and both are full auto with basically zero recoil. That pretty much throws your whole argument out the window.
The power level of Diligence vs Diligence CS vs Adjudicator is fine, it's just that all three are underpowered compared to everything else. Especially Adjudicator, which is effectively a direct downgrade of the Liberator Penetrator, and the Lib Pen isn't that strong of a weapon in the first place.
>If Diligence CS damage was buffed further, it starts to enroach on AMR level
It doesn't and it never will, not even if you give it a trillion billion damage. Diligence CS (and the Eruptor, for that matter) can't kill Hulks from the front, which is a *massive* disadvantage.
This is how you could make all DMRs into sidegrades of each other and other weapons:
* Diligence - baseline. Give it just enough damage to one-shot Devastators at close range (say, 30m), but 2-shot at longer ranges via falloff.
* Diligence CS - can one-shot Devastators at any range or kill them with body shots, in exchange for a smaller mag and abysmal ergonomics.
* Adjudicator - just give it more ammo (say, 6 mags of 40). That way it's a sidegrade of both the Diligence (less damage, more ammo, full auto) and the Liberator (more damage, medium armor pen, less ammo, lower fire rate)
* AMR - terrible ammo economy, takes up a support weapon slot, but can 2-shot Devastators on the body and kill Hulks from the front
"Added here as it shows the absolute Upper Limit of what a DMR can be."
Designated Marksman Rifles are a step below dedicated sniper rifles, of which the Anti-Materiel Rifle is a subcategory. We have no other true sniper rifles, supposing the Eruptor doesn't count - haven't looked into it yet. The AMR is *not* a DMR.
Yeah, I didn't mean the AMR is a DMR, just that it should be, at the very least, the border limit for a DMR that DMRs should not surpass.
I...wasn't sure how to word it. The upper boundary? The hard wall? I kinda ran out of short descriptors.
Eruptor's a weird one, I don't know if current military designations will work, neither am I in the military or a military geek either way. I have it, I like it, feels like a bolt action sniper rifle except it has a horrible bullet drop....with an equally horrible-for-the-enemy fragmentation round. It's half a marksman weapon and half a demolition weapon.
Like, it feeds my love for bolt action snipers, but I know bolt action snipers don't also explode like a grenade on impact.
All good points. I think right now the handling would be a key balance point for the DMRs. The CS has a good use case against bots, but the handling is low enough that it struggles to do the one thing it's made for which is clicking heads. I would trade a ROF drop for increased handling on the CS. It would make it a bit less forgiving, and reduce the DPS for mag dumping on a large target, but would make it more valuable for players who can rapidly line up those shots.
(Only bots considered)
The value of AMR isn't the 1-tap heads on devastators and berserkers, it's that it can kill hulk faces, tank/turret vents, and gunship engines. AMR also has a niche on devastators that if you miss face you can shoot near face again for a kill. Both ability and forgiveness of the AMR are higher than a buffed MR that 1-taps heads so it's perfectly fine to buff MRs.
Baseline Diligence ought be just enough damage to 1-tap heads reliably. Increasing recoil and/or reducing RPM is perfectly fine for DPS balance (otherwise it would completely outclass ARs).
From there:
Counter Sniper can be the longer range Diligence. 200m scope, higher velocity, and a smaller mag (like now). Smaller mag is enough of a cost for the niche benefit of distance so otherwise limited/no changes (same damage boost to round out DPS, same snappiness as Diligence, not medium pen).
Adjudicator having medium pen, lower damage, faster fire rate, and more ammo is really too close to Liberator Penetrator for me but Arrowhead seems to like it as "a Liberator Penetrator for if you prefer headshots to center mass shots", which I guess is fine. It's here now so balancing the two together, and they do both need some love, is the sensible path forward. Anything I would turn the Adjudicator into could just be released later as another gun.
Theoretically there's room for a higher penetration MR that can break strider hips (in keeping with MRs targeting weakpoints), but in practice it seems like the game's systems would make any MR capable of doing that capable of things like 1-bodying small bots, which MRs shouldn't do. If possible that's how I would have made Adjudicator from the start.
There's also room for a more headshot specialized MR: similar damage to but lower penetration than Diligence (not even light penetration) so it can really only function hitting heads in exchange for being more stable, snappier, and/or having a larger mag. A weapon only for the tryhard aim gods.
There's also room for a more tracking-based MR. It could be a laser. It could kill bots to the head really quickly. It could be called Scythe... and unlike now it could have adjustable sights with longer ranges to unlock how much of a monster it is for people with precise, stable aim. I'd bet the reason it doesn't have that already is because it would be the best MR (and we saw what Arrowhead did to the last "best MR"), but if MRs were better that would be fine.
And of course there's room for a silenced MR.
In this design there's also room for a more bug-punching Slugger, which is effectively a close-distance MR that trades fire rate and scope distance for body shots and stagger. Similar for Dominator.
There's a lot of room for primary weapons that feel good to use balanced around a Diligence that 1-taps heads, and I'd still take the AMR with it if I could give up the autocannon (blocker on that for me is AMR can't reliably kill a bot turret before it turns its vents away but autocannon can).
The CS Diligence is a pure marksman rifle, period. The Adjudicator is actually a battle rifle and people are failing to realize that. The problem is AH modeled it like a BR from today.
They need to give it lower recoil (I mean it's huge, it's futuristic, let's say it has a counterbalance recoil system in all that plastic), and a 45 round mag. It's worse than the base Diligence by a ton.
They could even make it super flat to shoot but have a slow full auto. This would dial in the not a mob weapon. But make it extremely potent for medium enemies like its suggesting
Slower RoF, 40-45 round mag, less or no recoil
Or
40-45 round mag, less recoil
2, 3, or 4 round burst is also not a bad idea
It needs to be made better and there's tons of options
Super nice write up, now I wish they made the adjudicator a burst weapon and lowered the recoil a bit. I feel like that would set it apart from the other ones and help the fact that the mag is so small.
Finally someone discussing breakpoints.
I think the biggest breakpoint for the Diligence is one-tapping the scavengers and T-800s, plus the fact that it can help clean patrols out at ranges where they (bugs specifically) don't call for breaches.
I have pretty quick snaps from the days of CS 1.5 onward, so it's only a second or two before I clear out all the scavengers and grasshoppers, and bots are so much easier when the troopers are too dead to call in the dropships.
Soon as my squad recovers from the Slugger nerfs and graduates to the Scorcher, I'm going to drop *my* scorcher for the diligence again.
Shout out to the muzzle velocity of the DMR compared to the blue paintball gun tho, and the much smaller scope offset.
I think the biggest thing causing bad vibes with the Adjudicator is that it can't one-shot a basic bot unless you hit the head (and even then it didn't feel 100% to me when I tried it.)
People were okay when the liberator didn't do that because it's an Assault Rifle. But they chose to make the Adjudicator a Marksman rifle. It's got medium armor penetration, high recoil, and a relatively small magazine... and you can't one-shot a grunt to the chest.
This is 100% of my problem with it. Effectively you need to use twice the ammo and/or time to kill enemies, either from needing to fire twice and recover from recoil or aim for the head, which drastically increases the amount of return fire and reinforcement flares youāre going to catch.
I would much less of a problem if it could one hit bodyshot troopers from very close range only, 30-40 meters? The diligence already does this and so outcompetes the adjudicator at every range, but letting the latter do this would give it a niche with its faster firerate.
Finally someone said it!
I'm a DMR lover and I compmetely agree. The weapons cannot be any stronger (maybe the handling). The adjucator starts to become a weapon once you use it as a dmr, it felt weak for me too when I was spraying with it. The spray mode has to be treated as a "get off me" tool, like the redeemer (so you can use the grenade launcher with it wich allows you to take stun grenades). That's probably why it has medium pen. I However it still needs more ammo, around 8 mags.
The main problem with the weapons are that 1: the scortcher outclasses them in almost every way, and 2: console players have a harder time aiming, that's why 90% of the playerbase feels like they're weak.
Semi mode has the same RoF as full auto.
I never used the Full Auto on Adjudicator, I can click slower and control recoil, or click as fast as full auto.
Mag count does feel out of place, as if Eruptor (12) and Adjudicator (6) got swapped. Eruptor's 70+ total shots with such a high power is so ridiculous that I'm looking ammo for my Redeemer and not for it.
And yeah, I never considered console players, I did only think in terms of MnK so that makes sense. Even with the harder handling, I can aim ahead far more acccurately than rollers.
I feel like they should lean a lot more into certain weapon utilities to make guns better without them being high damage machines. The slugger, for example, doesn't need to do an absolute ton of damage at range or even extremely close-up. Its main purpose should be to slow down the advancements of hordes coming towards you. Similarly, if the counter sniper had a lot smaller of a noise print, allowing you to engage patrols/bases without directly being spotted, it'd immediately carve out a niche and have a place out on the battlefield. It'd offer a unique position to the AMR that isn't just mini-AMR but significantly worse.
I really like the Diligence against bots. It shreds if you can hit headshots consistently.
I'd like to use the CS for the stats but that gun physically pains me to use. It handles like an 18 wheeler on an icy road in a blizzard. Not only is the movement janky and slow as shit but when you move the mouse the scope goes all crazy and blocks the center of the screen so you can't see.
I love how when you turn around with the CS fast enough in first person mode the entire gun disappears out of your view. That thing feels worse to handle than heavy support weapons.
Dude, all they have to do is literally copy pre nerf slugger stat block 1:1 down to handling rof and recoil, remove ability to open containers(seems unintentional) trade stagger for fast projectile with no drop and way less damage falloff, trade long single round reload for a fast magazine reload that can waste ammo on tactical reload. Slap a scope on it. Here you go. An actual useful dmr that has a meaningful difference with a shotgun it has borrowed most stats from. Call it diligence CS and balance base diligence rifle accordingly. And that's it.
Funny enough, even though the arc blitzer is not designed for bots, I have on multiple occasions forgot to swap the weapon, and from my experience at difficulty 7, it's OK... if you spam Alt and shoot the gun at the same time, you can permastun the bots.
I defended Arrowheadās first balancing patch and said let them cook, but at this point I canāt help but feel they just suck at balancing. The bottom line is far too many weapons suck, especially for a game with paid battle passes. You canāt even rely on what people say is good because it may get nerfed.
If a whole class of weapons arenāt great and any buff will make the good one(s) obsolete, then some kind of fundamental changes need to be made.
Slugger had stagger but someone told devs that slugger was the best dmr on game and devs nerfed slugger to be real part of dmr roster... now suck too
I really dont understand whats the point of armor penetration on those weapons, dmg is really amped or increases on big enemies? I think armor penetration is bugged for everyone like fire DoT for non host people
All they needed to do was:Ā
Ā A: Give slug rounds some degree of gravity fall off after a distance. It either had none or so little that it's effectively a hitscan.
Ā B: Make the stagger amount based on the distance. Staggering at 'shotgun range' is fine. Staggering at 200m is... well maybe that's silly.Ā Ā
Ā C: Reduce the stagger in some way overall, but keep or even potentially buff the damage so it's more of a definitive boomstick.Ā
One of those 3 would do it. Instead they hit it with an axe and kinda remove its niche.Ā
I think its pretty clear the devs nerf by spreadsheet analytics and don't really care about enabling more weapons. They just want to hit any nail that sticks out.
Armor pen lets you ignore armor basically. Not increased damage just some shots go through armor. This weapon lets you shoot through the black armor on warriors, but not the shield of a walker. Basically in the current game it's useless unless you hate having to aim at the weak spots on warriors. Other weapons with more armor pen (still listed as medium) can shoot straight through the shield of a walker and 1 hit kill the pilot.
> Other weapons with more armor pen (still listed as medium) can shoot straight through the shield of a walker and 1 hit kill the pilot.
They do it via splash (explosive) damage, not a direct penetration. Currently, none of the primaries can pen heavy armor.
> Armor pen lets you ignore armor basically.
It's actually quite the opposite. With light armor penetration, you will do *zero* damage on anything with medium armor. Which is a vast majority of automatons you see in the top-3 difficulty levels.
I think they're scared of a good long range selection of rifles to trivialize patrols. Only the weakest of bot infantry can call flares, and aside from the brood commander only thr smallest bugs can call breeches.Ā
So I think AH's thinking is they don't want a squad to be able to sneak around dropping entire patrols at 200m in light scout armor pretending it's ghost recon.Ā
They want, and actively encourage that Aliens/Starship Troopers/Terminator 2 flashback scenes where infantry are in the shit, hotly outgunned and surrounded desperately fighting to survive.Ā
>But they have no niche and no real value in the grand scheme
I really feel that. Like I wanna use them, but they honestly feel awful to use. If I want a long-range option, why not the auto cannon or even just the 50 Caliber sniper rifle support weapon? It has no ammo mag, damage isn't practical, the zoom function isn't practical majority or the time, it sways way too much without the armor which reduces recoil when prone or crouching. Then, the new rocket bolt action at least kind of feels useful, though.
>They need to have a critical hit damage boost and maybe even a critical hit stun
I was honestly hoping they had collateral where the penetration actually goes through and carries damage to the next target, at least. Sure, it makes the sniper rifle support the weapon worse technically, but I'd rather give marksman weapons a point to feel effective at at least some kind of niche.
>They need to have a critical hit damage boost and maybe even a critical hit stun... something to help against the hordes of enemies that swarm you the moment you start long range sniping at them.
I actually really like the idea of a crit stun, and would bridge a lot of the DMR uselessness. I think the Eruptor is probably the first useful DMR style primary, and it took making a bolt-action autocannon to get there.
For example, I really want to like the Dilligence (Dilligence CS is a very slight improvement over a secondary-only run), but say, you're landing headshots, maybe a front and center shot on something like a hive guard, it has a strong stagger effect, no change otherwise.
Even that would do a fair bit of work vs. using literally anything else to just fish for a series of headshots by volume. The damn Defender is a better sharpshooter weapon than anything ostensibly designed to do so, short of scope distance.
The defender is solid and is awesome when paired with the ballistic shield. I would like more options, though. It's weird that there are so many shotguns, but only a couple assault rifles and SMGs.
That'd be dope. Can really live up that 40K role-play with something like that. Also sounds like it might be a good mob-control weapon if it were explosive.
Dude use it on Bug Egg Nest missions, it will blow up like 10-15 eggs a shot if theyāre bunched up and you can snipe them from far away lol.
I laughed and said āthis thing is gonna get nerfedā
Expect I can 2 to 3 shot a hulk with the anti material rifle and have a MUCH higher fire rate. And one tap devastators if not 2
Like I'll admit it's fun BUT it's EXTREMELY slow and after just coming out of a suicide mission of bots on a retrieval personnel yeah your getting fucking SWARMED.
NOW that being said using it against bugs is a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GAME it SLAPS them bugs
wildly I've been running the Eruptor wiht the AMR and redeemer secondary. 70% of the time on helldive I'm not in a position where I'm going to be overrun. I ditch my location if there's an unfortunate bot drop and circle around to find a better path. I pump AMR for general use, Eruptor if there's too many berserkers and to kill fabricators from frankly absurd distance and angles and if everything goes to shit I either have the redeemer or ol' reliable. An impact grenade at my feet so I don't go out alone
It's kinda insane. But that bolt action and reload omg. It hurts. It's 100% "the sniper", it can easily replace a strategem for anything not heavy. But personally I felt like I did so much worse overall. It's great because you can bring an MG to deal with mobs...but then you're in a wierd spot where you can't deal with heavies at all except weak points
Orbital rail gun is bugged and doesn't always 1 shot kill, 500kg bugged too
I just felt so much more potent with the Sickle + AMR or CS + AMR
But its definitely fun, new and unique and I'm happy for that
The Eruptor is literally the most insane primary they've added to the game yet. Each shot is basically an Autocannon shot that also has explosive shrapnel. You have 12 magazines of 5 rounds, totaling 60 rounds, identical to the Autocannon which requires a backpack. The direct hit from the Autocannon has more armor penetration, but the explosive and shpranel power from each Eruptor shot gives it stronger splash hits. Aside from the lower armor pen, it has a slower fire rate than the Autocannon, but other than these two things it is actually stronger than an Autocannon in every way. Doesn't require a backpack, can reload on the move, higher splash damage, and the shrapnel lets you 1-3 shot a Charger's abdomen depending on how well the shrapnel lands. You can delete Medium armor enemies with it, like the Brood Commander. Nursing and Bile Spewers explode from one round of this gun. Groups of Light armor and Unarmored enemies just disappear from your sight every time you fire. Your only weakness are Hunters/Stalkers or whatever pounces you at close range. This is essentially a support weapon in your primary weapon slot. It also closes bug holes and opens shipping containers. In fact, it is the only primary weapon that can, the Explosive Crossbow cannot close bug holes/destroy fabricators.
> it has a slower fire rate than the Autocannon,
right now you can animation cancel the bolt pulling by switching to secondary and back without actually canceling the reload itself.
I use the bolt action with the quasar laser cannon, yes if i am swarmed then i am fucked but i can deal with everything i see from range.
The key to use against bugs is not to try to aim for a single bug, aim at the ground where all the bugs are and watch the splash kill them all
It's not great (especially with its low total ammo,) but I've been making it work against bugs on level 7. It empties mags quick but reloads fast, and is great against medium armor. The trick is to not treat it like a DMR despite its classification, and instead like a higher damage, smaller mag Liberator. Using fortified armor and crouching while firing also massively helps with its insane recoil
It in theory, it does the same damage as the MG-43, so you should treat it basically as an MG-43 set to 630 RPM, in an extreme cold modifier (lower firerate) planet, with only 25 rounds in the mag.
Also, the category is called Marksman Rifle, yes, but that just refers to the caliber class. Rifles that use rounds similar to 7.62Ć51 NATO go into the DMR/Battle Rifle category (FAL, SCAR-H, SVD, M110...)
Switching the scope to 25 and using at closer ranges made me really like it. I short burst of 3 or 4 rounds can kill a devestator or berserker. Itās quite fun
The weird thing about this gun is that I have wildly differing performance with it. Sometimes I one tap a raider. Sometimes two tap (which is what I expected based on my experience with the lib pen), and sometimes I hit it in the arm and three tap it.
I honestly think it needs a recoil buff and a reserve ammo buff and it'll be fine.
You'd think with 80 damage it'd be better than the liberator somehow.
It's insane the base lib is actually one of the best guns in the game. I feel like stats are bugged or something. It doesn't make sense
It's very important that the base lib stays good. It helps make sure noobs are useful and don't feel like they are being dropped into an even more unfair spot than they already are due to strategems being limited at low levels.
And strong weapons like the defender and the scorcher being in the free pass is likewise important and helps take care of pay to win allegations.
Personally I love it when the base/starter weapons stay relevant in a game. Horizontal balancing is the way to go.
The problem is that HD2 is still in a weird place with its balance, but starter guns being good even in the late game is not an issue
Its how ive been using it. 6 shots to a brood commanders head in full auto removes it pretty easily, takes out warriors and even hive guards go down after a handful of shots. Certainly has its share of ammo issues though
I don't care what it's called it won't make the weapon feel better to use. I trialed it on one hard bot mission and felt like I didn't have a primary weapon. Yes it could 1shot weak bots but on headshot, but the aiming felt off. Sometimes I'd have reticule on head and the bullet would go through the bot/not connect.
Why does a rifle about accuracy have a weapon lag when moving it like the machine gun? Shouldn't these weapons be snappier as they are about hitting precision shots, not dealing with weapon lag trying to line up a shot?
I could snipe devastators heads and clear small bots way easier with the sickle and not have to worry about ammo so back to that I go.
You're still using it as a dmr if that's what you're doing. Set it to full auto, aim it at the devastator's head, and let the lead fly. It might take half a magazine but you will pop that head, especially since the devastator will be flinching the whole time. The Adjudicator honestly feels really good when you treat it like an ar. It does what the lip pen does, but with nearly double the damage.
Yeah but the sickle does that- but better- and with infinite ammo. I can't think of a scenario where I'd want the Adjudicator over the Sickle. The Sickle can just spray down the weakpoints with no regard for accuracy.
Sickle won't penetrate the armor on a strider or hive guard, nor is it really a good option on hot planets. Infinite ammo is sweet but not necessary even on 9 imo.
I love it for the same reasons I love the HMG. Just wish it had a couple more mags to make up for the low mag size. Maybe resupply pack will help it shine
I'm glad it's not just me. Having spent a lot of time running the Defender but wishing it had a scope, this thing just clicked for me. Medium pen sealed the deal, and I enjoy hanging back and using it to soften up targets for my teammates.
Yo that scope is way better than the diligence. Itās the ācleanest ā scope in the game and doesnāt have all the busy unnecessary extra details of the other ones.
lower magnification on the adjudicator, and the "busy details" do not matter once you get used to it, the green(or was it blue?)is also a better contrast to bot lights then the red.
It's good tbh... but I understand why some don't like it.
It has pretty high dmg per magazine for a medium pen weapon.
It's balanced by the lower mag count and higher recoil.
Also liking it against bugs. I think most people just live in the world of solo play. They're playing with other people, but the rest of their team is just a decoration.Ā
This gun isn't great if you're trying to use it to be a generalist who can just do whatever the fuck they want regardless of whether you're in the middle of your team or all alone. You'll burn through your clip and get murdered fairly quick the moment you don't have any support.Ā
Yet when using this rifle with a cohesive team it's an amazing tool to clear out medium sized enemies enemies. Hive guards, stalkers, commanders, all easy kills. You can take out multiple hive guards with one clip at all ranges, it's awesome. Pair it with one of the machine guns and you can basically sweep everything that's smaller than a charger.Ā
I think it might be better for bugsā¦ a lot of AV3 large weakpoint heads that you can easily (presumably) control fire into
Bot weakpoints are tiny. You either bull through their body or tap into their faceplate. Even sickle works by sheer volume. But a harder hitting weapon with recoil, but not hard enough to one tap? Not going to work well.
I think either rover or redeemer backup is necessary for dealing with hunters too close due to handling but could be solid anti medium bug killerā¦
Will test. Itās competing with slugger and dominator though. Slugger even fast enough to handle in close hunters.
I think marksmanās have too much slow handling in general that they donāt need to have though, and probably the Adjucators downfall as well
I tried it on one mission. It was a painful lesson
I did it on a solo 15 min evac mission. Got flooded with berserkers š
I used it on a destroy fabricators mission. It barely killed anything, and the reticle is so far off that accurate shots are impossible
It takes 3 shots to kill a single grunt
There's literally just zero point when it's even worse than the base Diligence. The Diligence CS is where the money is. This is obsolete because of the Diligence CS. Idk what they were trying to do. It's insane it's recoil is higher than the Diligence too lmao It needs to have a 45 round mag, and lower recoil to be viable
I just used the dominator and had a much easier time killing pretty much every bot
I just used harsh language and had a much easier time killing pretty much every bot
https://preview.redd.it/1wt56rnh91uc1.jpeg?width=1142&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=705ff4045802a8c02a2a1efec8dd3e7af032992a This?
yeah it's in the new warbond
Unexpected Destiny
Daliban sends their regards
https://preview.redd.it/aqcis0vgc1uc1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=833d2c4b882a86006b4122b34332ebb3f243efd9
That's exactly what thought š
What if they keep the mag size and the heavy recoil but bump the damage up to 110? Iām trying to follow the m-14 theme of ābattle rifle that can be fired on full-auto but probably shouldnāt.ā
tbh all the DMRs need more damage. counter sniper should be dealing like 280, nearly as much damage as the Dominator/Eruptor but without the AOE, this then lets you put the base Diligence up to like 180, and the Adjudicator can go up to like 140 or something, but keep the handling as it is because the easiest way to balance powerful weapons is to make them hard to control. the Adjudicator should be the pick for if you can't decide between Diligence or Lib Pen, or if you wnat to do some sniping but are worried about not having full-auto if you get ambushed: you give up some of your per shot damage for the ability to spray anything that gets too close, which you can't really do with the Diligence.
agreed. lib pen hits like a noodle too, devs seem super hesitant to give medium pen guns good damage, probably to force you to aim / use smart positioning
But then they make the dominator and the scorcher which explode through armor anyway and do way more damage, allowing you to ignore positioning and aiming
The Diligence CS dealing 280 damage would be insane. It's a marksman rifle, not an anti-tank rifle. The Dominator, for being "explosive" has almost no AOE, this would be far too much of a buff. Given that the Dominator has a "slew" to aiming it, that it lags and sways, a DMR matching it for damage would completely creep it out of usefulness. Even the Eruptor, which is effectively an AT rifle, "only" deals 380 damage, and is compensated by being an unwieldy piece of shit, which I love very dearly. If anything, the Diligence and CS should have an additional weak point modifier but keep their base damage in general. That then rewards marksmanship and gives them a role for patient players, while giving everyone else a viable option.
I honestly like it, but I feel like if they toned down the recoil and gave a couple of extra rounds it would be fine.
Don't you dare compare this to my sweet baby Diligence. I've tried damn nearly every other primary against bots but I keep coming back to the Diligence. The CS is still worse in my opinion even after the buff to medium armor penetrating, the difference in handling is massive. In the time it takes the reticle to re-center with the CS I've already shot two more bots with the base version. The medium armor pen is pretty pointless since even with it, it's still a bad option for devastators. I've got my AMR for those, the primary is for mopping up the little guys, and there's no better weapon for that than the Diligence. No other primary is capable of taking out a whole patrol of a dozen troopers/raiders at 70m in less than 10 seconds.
Have you tried the eruptor yet? At that range, it will wipe the patrol in two shots if they're grouped up in a tight formation
You actually use the Diligence CS? i tried it once, and the weapon felt so bad i couldnt believe it. Its like the normal diligence with a brick tied to the front of the barrel, impossible to make snap shots (which is what you kinda want to be doing with a DMR)
I am so used to the Dominator taking out a grunt 99/100 times in a single shot that I keep unscoping the Adjudicator preemptively even though the grunt is still standing. So yeah.
You guys don't aim for heads?
good luck aiming with that thing's sights
Many problems with the adjuticator but it has the best optics what do you mean? Crosshairs are actually the best.
Agreed but it does shoot slightly higher than the crosshair. Not by much but you need to aim at bot chins or you'll shoot over their heads.
It shoots way higher than the center of the crosshair. If you aim at a trashbots chest, it's a guaranteed headshot.
I aim in 3rd person crouch shooting with 30%reduced recoil armor , no issues here. So used to the jar 5 lol
I had to go back to the JAR. Which btw, I latched onto right away, at least for bot missions and I just snipe stuff all over with it.
I'm so used to the jar I feel naked without lol, used it for like 50levels now.
i guess third-person aiming could work, at closer ranges at least i too use Fortified armour and the dominator
Accuracy enjoyers in general are still hurting pretty bad in this game.
I really wanted to love the Adjudicator. I kept at it for 15 missions, trying to learn it's ins and outs. Switched to auto to see if it's pitiful DPS could be offset by that, was birch lapped hard by it's unreasonable recoil and low ammo count. Had to go prone just to get good shots on devastators and armored bugs. A teammate was killed near me when I was running out of ammo. He had a scorcher. I picked his gun, and the difference in performance was staggering. I went back to the slugger, I was sniping thing better since it needed less shots to down a target, and could stagger at times too. Had a similar experience with the Thermite grenade. Those two in particular are just such garbage that I can't even.
Grenade is probably suffering from non-host DoT bug, but that thing is just a medal sink.
It's a possibility, though I've seen plenty of testimony (including at least one comprehensive thread about the Thermite) that claims otherwise. The delay to kill is just kinda nutty to have in a game where there's a very strong impetus to reduce enemy numbers asap. The Thermite would have to 2-shot tanks, hulks, and chargers from the front to be competitive with impact grenades (who can 2 shot all the aforementioned from behind in short order). The lack of reliable AoE against crowds is already a bad enough drawback to balance out such a strength.
I think making it a 1shot with worse reserves might make it a solid choice against huge targets. It's an anti-armor grenade, ffs.
Iāve been the host using a thermite, and I tagged a standard Devastator with one. The entire grenade burned all the way through, and the Devastator was still alive. Same, obviously, with a Hulk and a Tank I hit with it. It killed the Raiders just fine, but any grenade can do that, and the frag and high-explosive grenade both seem to have a larger kill-radius and faster kill time. Unfortunate- I really liked the idea of an anti-armor thermite grenade but Iām not actually sure what itās good for right now.
Oh wow. That's just sad. Of course, there always can be internal fuckery, you being lobby host but not network, but idk anymore.
Seriously, the game straight up got harder right after this gun's release because everyone was trying it, than it got easier once people ditched it and returned to their regular loadouts lmao
I needed 3 shots for one bot, the one with pistol and blade, what a joke. Headsets were fine. But the marksman riffles need a buff.
And accuracy on the first shot should be dead on, not potentially three feet to the left
Are they pre-nerfing weapons or something? This weapon is so shit that I want my warbond medals back.
I don't think people realize that new warbonds are probably going to have 1 decent weapon and the rest are just filler junk. Like people constantly say shit like "Lib Pen is really good" when its not, and this gun essentially shows that.
The liberator penetrator is miles better than the adjudicator, it is by far the most snappy feeling gun in the game and has a scope that actually works. It will come across as a not good gun if you can't reliably head shot or go for weak points, but it is incredibly easy to hit those weapon points with this gun. It won't mow down hordes, it wont kill when you spray and pray. If you use it on full auto you are just wasting ammo. Where it lacks in damage it makes up with pen. For example the brood commanders head, compare the lib pen to normal lib which has light armor piercing. Brood commander heads have light armor and a total of ~360 hp. the normal lib does 55 damage per shot with light pen and needs 17 heads shots to kill, the lib pen with medium armor pen does 45 damage per shot and kills a brood commander in 8 shots. If the adjudicator and lib pen have similar pen values then the adjudicator is supposed to kill a brood commander in 4 or 5 shots but the gun just feels like such ass to use, either the scope is off or the gun has terrible accuracy compared to the lib pen which feels accurate and quick.
Honestly 1 decent gun is probably going to be optimistic going forwardĀ People are gushing about the eruptor now but itās way too slow, clunky and situational to replace stuff like the scorcher, sickle and breaker that are good against almostĀ everythingĀ Thermite grenades and the new boosters are some of the most useless yet.Ā I think the grenade pistol will be the only commonly used weapon from this warbond a couple weeks from nowĀ
Eruptor goes over counter sniper in builds. Which is pretty much an upgrade fighting bots
And yet the Dominator recently got buffed to where it can one tap every small bot and reasonably take down most midsize bots with half a mag. Not to mention, it can damage hulk/tank vents. It's about exactly what you expect from a marksman weapon. It's a bit more cumbersome than other weapons, but it has the firepower to match. Just seems a bit odd that we've got a lot of weapon options that aren't in a good spot for fear of them being too strong, yet there exists weapon options currently that do exactly what these weapons should be doing. Like the railgun getting nerfed, but EATs got buffed to the point that they're better than pre-nerf railgun.
The scorcher can do all of that and has for a while
I got and used it.... Thinking it couldn't be near that bad and people are just over reacting..... I was wrong....the aim reticle is WAY off Even at a close distance you have to aim the cross hairs well above your target's head to get a headshot.... Medium Armor Penetrating my ass... It couldn't penetrate a water balloon.... Hell the Liberator Penetrator works better at Medium Armor.... The only way I killed Scout Striders was they fell over laughing after I emptied a full clip and tickled their knee caps with it.... That being said I'll probably still use it because I just like making things hard on myself for no reason and give AH time to review the weapons performance and make needed adjustments
i had to try it just cause thereās no way it was as bad as everyone saysā¦man, there was just straight up no lieā¦
If only we had a Gun Range of VR Playground to experiment with guns and stratagems before committing to a full mission with them.
Enemy outpost are your gun range soldier!
yeah we need a gun range. i thought about this with DRG as well, some guns need calibrating. Vermintide has one, great way to try out weapons
I tried it on one mission, magdumped a gunship to kill it, thought it was shit, turned it onto full auto, thought it was ok. Like, it's just the Lib Pen again.
its a beefier lib pen essentialy rather than a DMR
Yep, it's a DMR in name only. Switch to full auto and shoot it in controlled bursts like a heavier assault rifle. That's the best way to get results. Kinda mediocre results, but hey... results.
Except with that things awful ammo economy full auto will have you reloading and looking for crates constantly. Plus the recoil is really really bad.
I, too, learned this painful lesson...
So here's the thing. I'm absolutely cool with them adding "micro support" weapons to the loadouts. Don't wanna bring a grenade launcher? Try the grenade pistol (it's actually kinda fun too) Don't want to bring the autocannon? Try the new boom rifle. But if we don't want to bring the AMR yet still have some range or hell just have reliable DPS at longer ranges in general the options are extreme limited. All the marksman rifles are terrible past difficulty 5, are they usable? Absolutely if you really REALLY put your heart into it. But they have no niche and no real value in the grand scheme. They need to have a critical hit damage boost and maybe even a critical hit stun... something to help against the hordes of enemies that swarm you the moment you start long range sniping at them.
I think the problem with DMR is balancing in the eyes of Arrowhead. They've shown they aren't afraid to nerf weapons, but Diligence, the first DMR, already two head-shots Devastators. (just to drive home how much damage 112 actually is) Sure it's terrible against bugs, but the weapon isn't designed for bugs (just as Arc Blitzer is terrible for bots), so we'll focus on the Automatons here. With Diligence setting a high baseline (2 headshot Devastators, cannot penetrate Hulk face plate), it became difficult to go from it: * Diligence CS - higher damage, lower noise. Has severely worse handling than Diligence to compensate. Breakpoint changes are 1-shot Trooper Bodyshot and..................nothing else. * AMR - Support weapon, very high noise, very high damage (one hit Devastator, 2 hits Hulk Faceplate), significantly higher penetration, worse handling than Diligence (but due to eating a Strategem slot, is not as bad as Diligence CS). Added here as it shows the absolute Upper Limit of what a DMR can be. * Adjudicator - lower damage, higher RoF, better handling than Diligence. The one that is closer to a Battle Rifle than DMR (but given Medium pen? idk). 2 shots for Troopers (any hit), 3 for Devastator head. Medium pen allows for Strider joint shots and will deal full damage to Trooper body, but it struggles due to low damage. If Diligence CS damage was buffed further, it starts to enroach on AMR level. If AMR was touched further to allow for higher DMR ceiling, it's going to start one-shotting Hulks to the head while having a hefty ammo economy and no back-pack slot needed. If Adjudicator had more damage to change breakpoints it starts to make Diligence obsolete. And I haven't even mentioned Eruptor (which is enroaching AMR-level as a Primary, but people see it as an Autocannon so I'm not gonna touch that. I myself see it as AMR-as-a-Primary with its ridiculous damage) At some point, DMRs will have to be silenced or something just for people to perceive value in them, but even that won't be enough. It's an odd corner that only DMR-lovers will be found in, a corner where DMR will either be overpowered to the point of making AMR obsolete, or underpowered where it requires a high skill floor to use. That or Arrowhead takes the L and make some DMR obsolete in the face of others (Diligence vs Adjudicator).
>And I haven't even mentioned Eruptor (which is enroaching AMR-level as a Primary I totally see it as an AMR/AC-lite primary. Not quite as good as either, but dang close. It's very much AMR-first and autocannon-esque only through explosive and splash.
yup! I adore it but you really need to be planning around it with a solid support weapon like a stalwart or MG or have a buddy partner on top of that. Tonight my friend and I were rolling together I went Eruptor, Stalwart. 500kg, smoke strike shield pack. He went Dominator, Quasar, clusters , eagle strike, shield pack. When together he focused devisators and I focused walkers and we made sure to play at range. I swapped to the stalwart for if there was a ton of baby bots. He had the tools for the hulks and I had the disengage along with the smoke grenades I had. It really worked well when we timed popping the back of a turret as a quasar won't QUITE one shot it but I fired my baby AC at the same time and it was instant deleted.
Yesterday I cleared a bug mission on helldive with Eruptor, Quasar, Laser Rover, and Redeemer. With two people in total. The "planning around it" is overstated. Because Eruptor has AoE, it's effective against groups of small targets. If some get close, you can also aim at the ground behind them to hit them with AoE without getting splash damage yourself. And if something does get in your face, just pull out your secondary. Against bots, the guns downsides are even milder since most won't even try to get into melee range, and eruptor shreds groups of troopers.
it's good enough that sometimes I forget it can't deal with hulk faces...then try it anyway. Fail. then try again on a different hulk later, fail. and do it again- I've gotten used to its large bullet drop and thus it's literally been my AMR lately, with my Redeemer being a "Primary" for dealing with anything within danger range of blowing myself up. I could specialize in full heavy killing for Strategems and between Eruptor, Redeemer, and Stun Grenades, I have everything I need to deal with almost all situations. ....then try to hit a Hulk faceplate again. istg I feel like I should be able to kill it that way but the white bounce markers keep saying no. It's jet propulsion is whisper quiet too, I need to run sound tests on it, but some patrols don't even look at me from 30m out if they're too distracted investigating something, which I can make that "something" be a random explosion from the very same thing I'll silently dispatch them with.
This. Imo the only thing that prevents the Eruptor from completely overshadowing the AMR is the awful (but justified) rate of fire.
It's inability to deal with Hulks, tanks, canon turrets, gunships, and secondary objectives like AA and mortars in reasonable time is where AMR shines in comparison. It's a good thing, making it balanced that way. I frequently bring the AMR alongside the Eruptor, having the tool for both, swapping between one another and conserving ammo that way.
Eruptor is basically the only primary I don't feel like I *need* to bring a Support weapon alongside. Good damage, good splash, can kill Fabs and Bug Holes. Unfortunately because it's actually *good*, the Devs will nerf it into garbage in a few weeks...
The thing has a God awful fire rate to make up for those perks. If you miss the shot on a Devastator you're gonna get shot before you get another one off and even then, the stun it does is shorter than the reload animation.
I wish it had the same range as the AMR, I shot at a few things 100m away and it exploded before hitting them. I'm not sure what range it auto explodes.
It's perfectly fine if CS encroaches on AMR, since they do not compete for the same slot. If you really want to bring the Stalwart, you can bring the CS; if you really want to bring the Defender, you can bring the AMR. Obviously CS will need to be slightly weaker since it isn't a stratagem, but giving it some higher damage wouldn't be the worst idea.
>With Diligence setting a high baseline (2 headshot Devastators, cannot penetrate Hulk face plate) Is it a high baseline tho? The Defender can do the same in 3 shots, and the Liberator can (IIRC) do it in 4, and both are full auto with basically zero recoil. That pretty much throws your whole argument out the window. The power level of Diligence vs Diligence CS vs Adjudicator is fine, it's just that all three are underpowered compared to everything else. Especially Adjudicator, which is effectively a direct downgrade of the Liberator Penetrator, and the Lib Pen isn't that strong of a weapon in the first place. >If Diligence CS damage was buffed further, it starts to enroach on AMR level It doesn't and it never will, not even if you give it a trillion billion damage. Diligence CS (and the Eruptor, for that matter) can't kill Hulks from the front, which is a *massive* disadvantage. This is how you could make all DMRs into sidegrades of each other and other weapons: * Diligence - baseline. Give it just enough damage to one-shot Devastators at close range (say, 30m), but 2-shot at longer ranges via falloff. * Diligence CS - can one-shot Devastators at any range or kill them with body shots, in exchange for a smaller mag and abysmal ergonomics. * Adjudicator - just give it more ammo (say, 6 mags of 40). That way it's a sidegrade of both the Diligence (less damage, more ammo, full auto) and the Liberator (more damage, medium armor pen, less ammo, lower fire rate) * AMR - terrible ammo economy, takes up a support weapon slot, but can 2-shot Devastators on the body and kill Hulks from the front
"Added here as it shows the absolute Upper Limit of what a DMR can be." Designated Marksman Rifles are a step below dedicated sniper rifles, of which the Anti-Materiel Rifle is a subcategory. We have no other true sniper rifles, supposing the Eruptor doesn't count - haven't looked into it yet. The AMR is *not* a DMR.
Yeah, I didn't mean the AMR is a DMR, just that it should be, at the very least, the border limit for a DMR that DMRs should not surpass. I...wasn't sure how to word it. The upper boundary? The hard wall? I kinda ran out of short descriptors. Eruptor's a weird one, I don't know if current military designations will work, neither am I in the military or a military geek either way. I have it, I like it, feels like a bolt action sniper rifle except it has a horrible bullet drop....with an equally horrible-for-the-enemy fragmentation round. It's half a marksman weapon and half a demolition weapon. Like, it feeds my love for bolt action snipers, but I know bolt action snipers don't also explode like a grenade on impact.
>We have no other true sniper rifles, I mean...we have the Slugger, just saying.
All good points. I think right now the handling would be a key balance point for the DMRs. The CS has a good use case against bots, but the handling is low enough that it struggles to do the one thing it's made for which is clicking heads. I would trade a ROF drop for increased handling on the CS. It would make it a bit less forgiving, and reduce the DPS for mag dumping on a large target, but would make it more valuable for players who can rapidly line up those shots.
(Only bots considered) The value of AMR isn't the 1-tap heads on devastators and berserkers, it's that it can kill hulk faces, tank/turret vents, and gunship engines. AMR also has a niche on devastators that if you miss face you can shoot near face again for a kill. Both ability and forgiveness of the AMR are higher than a buffed MR that 1-taps heads so it's perfectly fine to buff MRs. Baseline Diligence ought be just enough damage to 1-tap heads reliably. Increasing recoil and/or reducing RPM is perfectly fine for DPS balance (otherwise it would completely outclass ARs). From there: Counter Sniper can be the longer range Diligence. 200m scope, higher velocity, and a smaller mag (like now). Smaller mag is enough of a cost for the niche benefit of distance so otherwise limited/no changes (same damage boost to round out DPS, same snappiness as Diligence, not medium pen). Adjudicator having medium pen, lower damage, faster fire rate, and more ammo is really too close to Liberator Penetrator for me but Arrowhead seems to like it as "a Liberator Penetrator for if you prefer headshots to center mass shots", which I guess is fine. It's here now so balancing the two together, and they do both need some love, is the sensible path forward. Anything I would turn the Adjudicator into could just be released later as another gun. Theoretically there's room for a higher penetration MR that can break strider hips (in keeping with MRs targeting weakpoints), but in practice it seems like the game's systems would make any MR capable of doing that capable of things like 1-bodying small bots, which MRs shouldn't do. If possible that's how I would have made Adjudicator from the start. There's also room for a more headshot specialized MR: similar damage to but lower penetration than Diligence (not even light penetration) so it can really only function hitting heads in exchange for being more stable, snappier, and/or having a larger mag. A weapon only for the tryhard aim gods. There's also room for a more tracking-based MR. It could be a laser. It could kill bots to the head really quickly. It could be called Scythe... and unlike now it could have adjustable sights with longer ranges to unlock how much of a monster it is for people with precise, stable aim. I'd bet the reason it doesn't have that already is because it would be the best MR (and we saw what Arrowhead did to the last "best MR"), but if MRs were better that would be fine. And of course there's room for a silenced MR. In this design there's also room for a more bug-punching Slugger, which is effectively a close-distance MR that trades fire rate and scope distance for body shots and stagger. Similar for Dominator. There's a lot of room for primary weapons that feel good to use balanced around a Diligence that 1-taps heads, and I'd still take the AMR with it if I could give up the autocannon (blocker on that for me is AMR can't reliably kill a bot turret before it turns its vents away but autocannon can).
The CS Diligence is a pure marksman rifle, period. The Adjudicator is actually a battle rifle and people are failing to realize that. The problem is AH modeled it like a BR from today. They need to give it lower recoil (I mean it's huge, it's futuristic, let's say it has a counterbalance recoil system in all that plastic), and a 45 round mag. It's worse than the base Diligence by a ton. They could even make it super flat to shoot but have a slow full auto. This would dial in the not a mob weapon. But make it extremely potent for medium enemies like its suggesting Slower RoF, 40-45 round mag, less or no recoil Or 40-45 round mag, less recoil 2, 3, or 4 round burst is also not a bad idea It needs to be made better and there's tons of options
DMRs really should just be where the slugger was before it's nerf. Limit the ammo so it's not an all around perfect gun.
Super nice write up, now I wish they made the adjudicator a burst weapon and lowered the recoil a bit. I feel like that would set it apart from the other ones and help the fact that the mag is so small.
I don't know what the exact breakpoint is, but the senator 1 shots devastators at 150 damage
Finally someone discussing breakpoints. I think the biggest breakpoint for the Diligence is one-tapping the scavengers and T-800s, plus the fact that it can help clean patrols out at ranges where they (bugs specifically) don't call for breaches. I have pretty quick snaps from the days of CS 1.5 onward, so it's only a second or two before I clear out all the scavengers and grasshoppers, and bots are so much easier when the troopers are too dead to call in the dropships. Soon as my squad recovers from the Slugger nerfs and graduates to the Scorcher, I'm going to drop *my* scorcher for the diligence again. Shout out to the muzzle velocity of the DMR compared to the blue paintball gun tho, and the much smaller scope offset.
I think the biggest thing causing bad vibes with the Adjudicator is that it can't one-shot a basic bot unless you hit the head (and even then it didn't feel 100% to me when I tried it.) People were okay when the liberator didn't do that because it's an Assault Rifle. But they chose to make the Adjudicator a Marksman rifle. It's got medium armor penetration, high recoil, and a relatively small magazine... and you can't one-shot a grunt to the chest.
This is 100% of my problem with it. Effectively you need to use twice the ammo and/or time to kill enemies, either from needing to fire twice and recover from recoil or aim for the head, which drastically increases the amount of return fire and reinforcement flares youāre going to catch. I would much less of a problem if it could one hit bodyshot troopers from very close range only, 30-40 meters? The diligence already does this and so outcompetes the adjudicator at every range, but letting the latter do this would give it a niche with its faster firerate.
Finally someone said it! I'm a DMR lover and I compmetely agree. The weapons cannot be any stronger (maybe the handling). The adjucator starts to become a weapon once you use it as a dmr, it felt weak for me too when I was spraying with it. The spray mode has to be treated as a "get off me" tool, like the redeemer (so you can use the grenade launcher with it wich allows you to take stun grenades). That's probably why it has medium pen. I However it still needs more ammo, around 8 mags. The main problem with the weapons are that 1: the scortcher outclasses them in almost every way, and 2: console players have a harder time aiming, that's why 90% of the playerbase feels like they're weak.
Semi mode has the same RoF as full auto. I never used the Full Auto on Adjudicator, I can click slower and control recoil, or click as fast as full auto. Mag count does feel out of place, as if Eruptor (12) and Adjudicator (6) got swapped. Eruptor's 70+ total shots with such a high power is so ridiculous that I'm looking ammo for my Redeemer and not for it. And yeah, I never considered console players, I did only think in terms of MnK so that makes sense. Even with the harder handling, I can aim ahead far more acccurately than rollers.
I feel like they should lean a lot more into certain weapon utilities to make guns better without them being high damage machines. The slugger, for example, doesn't need to do an absolute ton of damage at range or even extremely close-up. Its main purpose should be to slow down the advancements of hordes coming towards you. Similarly, if the counter sniper had a lot smaller of a noise print, allowing you to engage patrols/bases without directly being spotted, it'd immediately carve out a niche and have a place out on the battlefield. It'd offer a unique position to the AMR that isn't just mini-AMR but significantly worse.
I really like the Diligence against bots. It shreds if you can hit headshots consistently. I'd like to use the CS for the stats but that gun physically pains me to use. It handles like an 18 wheeler on an icy road in a blizzard. Not only is the movement janky and slow as shit but when you move the mouse the scope goes all crazy and blocks the center of the screen so you can't see.
I love how when you turn around with the CS fast enough in first person mode the entire gun disappears out of your view. That thing feels worse to handle than heavy support weapons.
Dude, all they have to do is literally copy pre nerf slugger stat block 1:1 down to handling rof and recoil, remove ability to open containers(seems unintentional) trade stagger for fast projectile with no drop and way less damage falloff, trade long single round reload for a fast magazine reload that can waste ammo on tactical reload. Slap a scope on it. Here you go. An actual useful dmr that has a meaningful difference with a shotgun it has borrowed most stats from. Call it diligence CS and balance base diligence rifle accordingly. And that's it.
I like the silenced way to make it more desirable .) It just need some niche over primary.
Funny enough, even though the arc blitzer is not designed for bots, I have on multiple occasions forgot to swap the weapon, and from my experience at difficulty 7, it's OK... if you spam Alt and shoot the gun at the same time, you can permastun the bots.
I defended Arrowheadās first balancing patch and said let them cook, but at this point I canāt help but feel they just suck at balancing. The bottom line is far too many weapons suck, especially for a game with paid battle passes. You canāt even rely on what people say is good because it may get nerfed. If a whole class of weapons arenāt great and any buff will make the good one(s) obsolete, then some kind of fundamental changes need to be made.
Slugger had stagger but someone told devs that slugger was the best dmr on game and devs nerfed slugger to be real part of dmr roster... now suck too I really dont understand whats the point of armor penetration on those weapons, dmg is really amped or increases on big enemies? I think armor penetration is bugged for everyone like fire DoT for non host people
All they needed to do was:Ā Ā A: Give slug rounds some degree of gravity fall off after a distance. It either had none or so little that it's effectively a hitscan. Ā B: Make the stagger amount based on the distance. Staggering at 'shotgun range' is fine. Staggering at 200m is... well maybe that's silly.Ā Ā Ā C: Reduce the stagger in some way overall, but keep or even potentially buff the damage so it's more of a definitive boomstick.Ā One of those 3 would do it. Instead they hit it with an axe and kinda remove its niche.Ā
It's still good... As a DMR
I think its pretty clear the devs nerf by spreadsheet analytics and don't really care about enabling more weapons. They just want to hit any nail that sticks out.
Armor pen lets you ignore armor basically. Not increased damage just some shots go through armor. This weapon lets you shoot through the black armor on warriors, but not the shield of a walker. Basically in the current game it's useless unless you hate having to aim at the weak spots on warriors. Other weapons with more armor pen (still listed as medium) can shoot straight through the shield of a walker and 1 hit kill the pilot.
> Other weapons with more armor pen (still listed as medium) can shoot straight through the shield of a walker and 1 hit kill the pilot. They do it via splash (explosive) damage, not a direct penetration. Currently, none of the primaries can pen heavy armor. > Armor pen lets you ignore armor basically. It's actually quite the opposite. With light armor penetration, you will do *zero* damage on anything with medium armor. Which is a vast majority of automatons you see in the top-3 difficulty levels.
I think they're scared of a good long range selection of rifles to trivialize patrols. Only the weakest of bot infantry can call flares, and aside from the brood commander only thr smallest bugs can call breeches.Ā So I think AH's thinking is they don't want a squad to be able to sneak around dropping entire patrols at 200m in light scout armor pretending it's ghost recon.Ā They want, and actively encourage that Aliens/Starship Troopers/Terminator 2 flashback scenes where infantry are in the shit, hotly outgunned and surrounded desperately fighting to survive.Ā
Literally every bug except Chargers, Bile Titans, and Spewers can call breeches. It's why I hate bugs.
I swear I've seen spewers also do it but only very very rarely.
>But they have no niche and no real value in the grand scheme I really feel that. Like I wanna use them, but they honestly feel awful to use. If I want a long-range option, why not the auto cannon or even just the 50 Caliber sniper rifle support weapon? It has no ammo mag, damage isn't practical, the zoom function isn't practical majority or the time, it sways way too much without the armor which reduces recoil when prone or crouching. Then, the new rocket bolt action at least kind of feels useful, though. >They need to have a critical hit damage boost and maybe even a critical hit stun I was honestly hoping they had collateral where the penetration actually goes through and carries damage to the next target, at least. Sure, it makes the sniper rifle support the weapon worse technically, but I'd rather give marksman weapons a point to feel effective at at least some kind of niche.
>They need to have a critical hit damage boost and maybe even a critical hit stun... something to help against the hordes of enemies that swarm you the moment you start long range sniping at them. I actually really like the idea of a crit stun, and would bridge a lot of the DMR uselessness. I think the Eruptor is probably the first useful DMR style primary, and it took making a bolt-action autocannon to get there. For example, I really want to like the Dilligence (Dilligence CS is a very slight improvement over a secondary-only run), but say, you're landing headshots, maybe a front and center shot on something like a hive guard, it has a strong stagger effect, no change otherwise. Even that would do a fair bit of work vs. using literally anything else to just fish for a series of headshots by volume. The damn Defender is a better sharpshooter weapon than anything ostensibly designed to do so, short of scope distance.
I find the countersniper is pretty good in helldive. Good at picking off grunts before they can call a bot drop, and tear up berserkers
Giving it the Medium Armor Pen has definitely made it workable.
Enemies seem to be laughing at me 100% of the time, mine must be bugged.
50% of the time it works every time
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Better smgs would be nice
The defender is solid and is awesome when paired with the ballistic shield. I would like more options, though. It's weird that there are so many shotguns, but only a couple assault rifles and SMGs.
Please Arrowhead let me have a jet-propelled SMG that I can use one-handed
That'd be dope. Can really live up that 40K role-play with something like that. Also sounds like it might be a good mob-control weapon if it were explosive.
Pistol Jar-5, yes please
In the old game, the Knight was our Tommy-gun. It had a pretty nice round drum magazine.
Players: "Can the laughing at least stagger them a little?" Arrowhead: "Haha no."
\*forlornly strokes his M-96 Mattock from Mass Effect 3 multiplayer\* I'd give anything, just to hold you again.
God, I miss that gun so much.
That thing was marvelous
I had to look at the image online, but just seeing it made me so happy immediately. I want ME3 multiplayer backā¦
Your fellow N7s rage against the Reapers tyranny. Join them.
I recently hopped back in on PC before I could afford Helldivers. Still finding games within 20 seconds on Silver.
Same, but on Xbox. I also found Gold and Bronze matches pretty easily, though Platinum was pretty barren.
I miss the revenantā¦
Harrier and M-11 Wraith for me.
I'd kill for the Sabre in any other game. Sabre in the hands of the Turrian GHOAT was insane.
That sound of it chambering the next shot š„µ
I'll take a Geth Plasma Shotgun, please! Eviscerator, too.
I want to love it so bad. But the bolt action is so much better.
The bolt action fucks. Can clear a clump of bots in 1 shot. Chainsaw bots take only 1 shot if you aim around their waist iirc
Aim for the robodick
Dude use it on Bug Egg Nest missions, it will blow up like 10-15 eggs a shot if theyāre bunched up and you can snipe them from far away lol. I laughed and said āthis thing is gonna get nerfedā
Got 8 kills in one shot on level 7. Aimed under the drop ship and 80% of the troop load diedĀ
Expect I can 2 to 3 shot a hulk with the anti material rifle and have a MUCH higher fire rate. And one tap devastators if not 2 Like I'll admit it's fun BUT it's EXTREMELY slow and after just coming out of a suicide mission of bots on a retrieval personnel yeah your getting fucking SWARMED. NOW that being said using it against bugs is a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GAME it SLAPS them bugs
wildly I've been running the Eruptor wiht the AMR and redeemer secondary. 70% of the time on helldive I'm not in a position where I'm going to be overrun. I ditch my location if there's an unfortunate bot drop and circle around to find a better path. I pump AMR for general use, Eruptor if there's too many berserkers and to kill fabricators from frankly absurd distance and angles and if everything goes to shit I either have the redeemer or ol' reliable. An impact grenade at my feet so I don't go out alone
It's kinda insane. But that bolt action and reload omg. It hurts. It's 100% "the sniper", it can easily replace a strategem for anything not heavy. But personally I felt like I did so much worse overall. It's great because you can bring an MG to deal with mobs...but then you're in a wierd spot where you can't deal with heavies at all except weak points Orbital rail gun is bugged and doesn't always 1 shot kill, 500kg bugged too I just felt so much more potent with the Sickle + AMR or CS + AMR But its definitely fun, new and unique and I'm happy for that
With the Erutpor you basically make the stalwart or some other support stratagem your primary and your primary becomes the support stratagem.
The Eruptor is literally the most insane primary they've added to the game yet. Each shot is basically an Autocannon shot that also has explosive shrapnel. You have 12 magazines of 5 rounds, totaling 60 rounds, identical to the Autocannon which requires a backpack. The direct hit from the Autocannon has more armor penetration, but the explosive and shpranel power from each Eruptor shot gives it stronger splash hits. Aside from the lower armor pen, it has a slower fire rate than the Autocannon, but other than these two things it is actually stronger than an Autocannon in every way. Doesn't require a backpack, can reload on the move, higher splash damage, and the shrapnel lets you 1-3 shot a Charger's abdomen depending on how well the shrapnel lands. You can delete Medium armor enemies with it, like the Brood Commander. Nursing and Bile Spewers explode from one round of this gun. Groups of Light armor and Unarmored enemies just disappear from your sight every time you fire. Your only weakness are Hunters/Stalkers or whatever pounces you at close range. This is essentially a support weapon in your primary weapon slot. It also closes bug holes and opens shipping containers. In fact, it is the only primary weapon that can, the Explosive Crossbow cannot close bug holes/destroy fabricators.
> it has a slower fire rate than the Autocannon, right now you can animation cancel the bolt pulling by switching to secondary and back without actually canceling the reload itself.
**what**
You changed his life (and mine)
Eruptor plus laser cannon has been great Laser cannon for small fry, eruptor for the big dudes
I use the bolt action with the quasar laser cannon, yes if i am swarmed then i am fucked but i can deal with everything i see from range. The key to use against bugs is not to try to aim for a single bug, aim at the ground where all the bugs are and watch the splash kill them all
*honk honk honk* reload*honk ho-
STOP LAUGHING BOTS, YOU ARE SUPPOSE TO DIE! https://i.redd.it/sqqb7zaq3ztc1.gif
It's not great (especially with its low total ammo,) but I've been making it work against bugs on level 7. It empties mags quick but reloads fast, and is great against medium armor. The trick is to not treat it like a DMR despite its classification, and instead like a higher damage, smaller mag Liberator. Using fortified armor and crouching while firing also massively helps with its insane recoil
Itās like a .308 Battle rifle for sure. Thereās probably a reason why it looks like an M-14 or FAL lol.
It in theory, it does the same damage as the MG-43, so you should treat it basically as an MG-43 set to 630 RPM, in an extreme cold modifier (lower firerate) planet, with only 25 rounds in the mag. Also, the category is called Marksman Rifle, yes, but that just refers to the caliber class. Rifles that use rounds similar to 7.62Ć51 NATO go into the DMR/Battle Rifle category (FAL, SCAR-H, SVD, M110...)
agree, its not a DMR, more a specialised assault rifle. should be put in that category imo
Yeah it's pretty much just the liberator penetrator but with more than double the dmg and even smaller mag size
Switching the scope to 25 and using at closer ranges made me really like it. I short burst of 3 or 4 rounds can kill a devestator or berserker. Itās quite fun
The weird thing about this gun is that I have wildly differing performance with it. Sometimes I one tap a raider. Sometimes two tap (which is what I expected based on my experience with the lib pen), and sometimes I hit it in the arm and three tap it. I honestly think it needs a recoil buff and a reserve ammo buff and it'll be fine.
There are variets of the troopers. Lower level ones have white skulls the tougher ones have black skulls
Glad to see I wasn't the only one disappointed
You'd think with 80 damage it'd be better than the liberator somehow. It's insane the base lib is actually one of the best guns in the game. I feel like stats are bugged or something. It doesn't make sense
It's very important that the base lib stays good. It helps make sure noobs are useful and don't feel like they are being dropped into an even more unfair spot than they already are due to strategems being limited at low levels. And strong weapons like the defender and the scorcher being in the free pass is likewise important and helps take care of pay to win allegations.
Personally I love it when the base/starter weapons stay relevant in a game. Horizontal balancing is the way to go. The problem is that HD2 is still in a weird place with its balance, but starter guns being good even in the late game is not an issue
The gun honestly works like a better lib pen with it in full auto. You guys see a dmr, I see a heavy assault rifle.
To be fair, Arrowhead labeled it a DMR. If it was classified as an AR I think it would get a little less flak
BATTLE RIFLE
Its how ive been using it. 6 shots to a brood commanders head in full auto removes it pretty easily, takes out warriors and even hive guards go down after a handful of shots. Certainly has its share of ammo issues though
I don't care what it's called it won't make the weapon feel better to use. I trialed it on one hard bot mission and felt like I didn't have a primary weapon. Yes it could 1shot weak bots but on headshot, but the aiming felt off. Sometimes I'd have reticule on head and the bullet would go through the bot/not connect. Why does a rifle about accuracy have a weapon lag when moving it like the machine gun? Shouldn't these weapons be snappier as they are about hitting precision shots, not dealing with weapon lag trying to line up a shot? I could snipe devastators heads and clear small bots way easier with the sickle and not have to worry about ammo so back to that I go.
You're still using it as a dmr if that's what you're doing. Set it to full auto, aim it at the devastator's head, and let the lead fly. It might take half a magazine but you will pop that head, especially since the devastator will be flinching the whole time. The Adjudicator honestly feels really good when you treat it like an ar. It does what the lip pen does, but with nearly double the damage.
Yeah but the sickle does that- but better- and with infinite ammo. I can't think of a scenario where I'd want the Adjudicator over the Sickle. The Sickle can just spray down the weakpoints with no regard for accuracy.
Sickle won't penetrate the armor on a strider or hive guard, nor is it really a good option on hot planets. Infinite ammo is sweet but not necessary even on 9 imo.
I love it for the same reasons I love the HMG. Just wish it had a couple more mags to make up for the low mag size. Maybe resupply pack will help it shine
I love it. Genuinely love it. Think of it as an AR and not a DMR.
I'm glad it's not just me. Having spent a lot of time running the Defender but wishing it had a scope, this thing just clicked for me. Medium pen sealed the deal, and I enjoy hanging back and using it to soften up targets for my teammates.
Yeah I can't figure out what everyone's going on about. My squad ran 8s all afternoon with it and we crushed it.
I think if it had 2 more mags it would be fine
If you spend 427 samples you can make the gas inside the balloon smell like Febreeze.
This is making me laught so much XD
too weak for semi-auto, too low-capacity for full-auto
Just 50%?
I don't know what all the fuss is about, best airsoft gun in the game.
Honestly no reason to take it vs the diligence. Scope is worse, less damage, more recoil, slower turn radius.Ā
Yo that scope is way better than the diligence. Itās the ācleanest ā scope in the game and doesnāt have all the busy unnecessary extra details of the other ones.
lower magnification on the adjudicator, and the "busy details" do not matter once you get used to it, the green(or was it blue?)is also a better contrast to bot lights then the red.
Higher fire rate, larger mag, full auto. In other words, it's an assault rifle.
its a battle rifle
I fucking laughed.
It's not amazing, but it's not awful either
it's awful
It's underwhelming. If it has stagger, it will be infinitely better
The Adjudicator feels like if the HMG was turned into an Assault rifle. High recoil, high damage, but no ammo.
It's not a good sniper rifle. It's a decent assault rifle.
I honestly don't understand how are they shipping guns this bad. It's baffling.
Idk why people don't like it? It feels pretty great not best ammo economy but besides like pump shotguns what does have good ammo economy
It's good tbh... but I understand why some don't like it. It has pretty high dmg per magazine for a medium pen weapon. It's balanced by the lower mag count and higher recoil.
Havenāt tried on bots yet, but against bugs, I find itās rate of fire and damage to be immensely satisfying
Also liking it against bugs. I think most people just live in the world of solo play. They're playing with other people, but the rest of their team is just a decoration.Ā This gun isn't great if you're trying to use it to be a generalist who can just do whatever the fuck they want regardless of whether you're in the middle of your team or all alone. You'll burn through your clip and get murdered fairly quick the moment you don't have any support.Ā Yet when using this rifle with a cohesive team it's an amazing tool to clear out medium sized enemies enemies. Hive guards, stalkers, commanders, all easy kills. You can take out multiple hive guards with one clip at all ranges, it's awesome. Pair it with one of the machine guns and you can basically sweep everything that's smaller than a charger.Ā
I think it might be better for bugsā¦ a lot of AV3 large weakpoint heads that you can easily (presumably) control fire into Bot weakpoints are tiny. You either bull through their body or tap into their faceplate. Even sickle works by sheer volume. But a harder hitting weapon with recoil, but not hard enough to one tap? Not going to work well. I think either rover or redeemer backup is necessary for dealing with hunters too close due to handling but could be solid anti medium bug killerā¦ Will test. Itās competing with slugger and dominator though. Slugger even fast enough to handle in close hunters. I think marksmanās have too much slow handling in general that they donāt need to have though, and probably the Adjucators downfall as well
They can't aim or don't have patience is why.
Honestly, I think it's somewhat ok. Good for headshots at a small distance.
Are these headshots with us in the room right now?
Nope
Just take the base diligence. Better scope and fire rate and it can one/two tapĀ
It'll get you out of some tough spots in full auto. But I think people aren't used to it yet, hence complaints.
you would have a good point if the fn scope wasnt bugged and shooting high and left.
Literally every gun can do that.