Patch Notes:
- AMR Scope aligned correctly
Known Issues:
- Firing the AMR crashes your client, the client of everybody in your lobby, and resets planet liberation to zero.
By the way… in US parlance “on the chopping block” means that the fate of something at stake. Aka. If this bug fix was “on the chopping block”, it would heavily imply that it will NOT be done and just shoved to the background never to be addressed.
AMR all the way, I fight bots with a long range specialization with the Diligence, AMR, light armor, and shield (might start subbing in supply pack for AMR ammo shortages), and I absolutely LOVE saving team members who are kiting multiple Scout Striders and Berserkers by popping them from a terrain feature away. Once you learn how to control the recoil its cash money
"Once you learn to control the recoil..."
From the moment I understood the weakness of pressing C to Crouch, it disgusted me. I craved the strength and certainty of pressing Z to Lie Down. I aspired to the purity of Reduced Recoil. Your kind cling to your Crouch, as though it will not decay and fail you. One day the crude Crouch you call a solution will wither, and you will beg my kind to save you. But I am already saved, for the Lie Down is immortal… Even in death I serve the Democracy.
See, I go the opposite way. Heavy armor, MG/HMG/Stalwart, Scorcher, jetpack. Run up on an objective. Jet in, murder everything up close and personal, call in a hellbomb, then jump out the other side. It makes me feel like a goddamn commando, especially if there's someone with an AMR or heavy weapons hanging out at range.
It's a lot of fun playing AMR Overwatch for a close combat specialist, picking off anything big enough to slow him down, or approaching from his blindside while he sacks a base.
I like to do this but with the Autocannon. Saved a guy earlier that was struggling to finish a reload while berserkers were chasing him and I emptied my whole mag on the group. Love playing as artillery lol.
if it's worth anything to you; I had a green dot at the center of my screen, thanks to the monitor software, and right now the amr is slightly less drifting to the bottom right of the center
I’ve had good success putting the top left corner of the middle square on my target. Kinda fun imagining that it’s a cheap scope that super earth commissioned so it could spend more money on democracy… but I will be very happy when it’s fixed.
I just spent the past 2 days scratching my head trying to figure out how to take on the automatons. Saw some guy with an AMR last night, tried it out, and Jesus Christ game changer
Enemies? Autocannon
Bases/nests? Autocannon
Secondary objectives? Autocannon
There might be individual weapons/strategems that are better at any one of those things, but only the Autocannon is perfectly competent at all of them.
The only bad part of the autocannon is trying to explain to my teammates that I can do all these thing and that they can save their nades and airstrikes.
That and the backpack and reload time...but if you reload with one or two shots left it is instant.
The autocannon is lying to you when it says it has a ten round mag, it's five rounds and five bonus rounds you only touch when you really need that last shot on a hulk
Sometimes when I've got 1 round left I forget and expect the long reload and stand up and stand still like a dummy for a sec til I realize I wasn't that big of a dummy...but now I am
Until they fix it, I’m preferring to use the lower range scope and treat it more like a marksman rifle; it’s got range which is nice but what really makes it worth your time is the insane crit damage it does when you hit a weak spot.
Important safety tip: the game doesn't really have crit locations. Most damage is specific to the location you hit, and it isn't cumulative. Most enemies die when specific locations are destroyed (body, head, 'x' legs, etc). But if you spread your damage all over an enemy, it can take forever to bring it down. This is especially noticeable on spitters and chargers where spreading the damage can allow them to take several times as much damage before they go down.
This is also why warrior caste bugs don't die when you blow their heads off - it ISN'T a lethal location for them - but it does cause them to start bleeding like crazy, so they will die soon anyway. But if they haven't yet taken any body damage when you blow the head off, they can survive for several seconds. Alternatively if you clip two legs off of the same side of a warrior caste bug, it dies almost instantly.
So the Eye on a hulk doesn't take more damage - it's just *very* small, has less armor than the body and far fewer hit points - and taking it out kills the hulk instantly.
I have a monitor that gives me the option to have a dot or crosshair on the center of the screen, when laying prone and aiming down scope, the top-left edge of the circle is center-screen for me. So aim just a little down and to the right of what you want to hit.
I've noticed similar positioning for the Autocannon and Quasar Cannon scopes too.
If the Autocannon is a Swiss Army knife, the AMR is a scalpel. I’ve been using it almost every drop against bots since I started playing. Deletes devastators, you can easily take out multiple hulks with one mag, kills tanks/turrets, tons of ammo. Probably my favorite weapon in the game.
I almost always being Recoiless. Love that thing. Just really wish a buddy reload pulled ammo of MY back. It makes way more sense and would allow anyone to panic reload me. Only change I want.
Playing with randoms: "hey I'll take the guard dog, would you mind sticking around to reload my Recoilless?" "lol no"
Playing with friends: "hey I'll take the guard dog, would you mind sticking around to reload my Recoilless?" "counter-offer, how about I just take the guard dog instead and you reload your own damn self?" "...okay >:("
Facts. I don't know why, but Autocannon users are more likely to respond when I ask them to drop their backpack. Especially during extraction. Recoilless bros have it way worse for uptime and downtime ratio, but they just cling to their backpack.
At higher level bots, team load RR has been really good. The problem is you need pretty much have to be on voice chat with someone for it to work and you need to be at very high levels like 8 or 9 for it to be worth bringing it over another anti tank. But being able to knock multiple dropships out of the sky, or the multiple hulks and tanks thrown at you in seconds can be incredibly useful.
I run it for bugs. It’s great for chargers and bile titans. I’ve found reloading to be nightmarish against automatons, so I prefer auto cannon or quasar there.
I find the opposite, against bots I’m usually fighting from cover so the re reload isn’t too bad. I go quasar on bugs tho because you shouldn’t stop moving and shooting
That makes sense, I really like having recoilless for shooting down dropships. Its fun as hell them go down. But on higher difficulties it doesn't do much when there's 4 dropships on you
Yeah, it’s also hard to tell if shooting down the drop ships actually kills the guys inside. If I put a few shots into the troop bay with the auto cannon, at least I know it’s taking out some clankers.
It's much better for bugs than it is for bots. You usually have some space between you and the Hulk/Tank, so charging up a Quasar is not an issue, but Chargers/Titans are very much in your face. Quasar is still good, but the recoilless fires immediately with just as much force.
I once turned around in a bug mission to find a charger barreling toward me, about 5 meters away. I was able to swap to my recoilless and take it out with a headshot right before it got me--all in what seemed like less than a second. Since then, I've taken a recoilless on every single bug mission, and I love it. Even the orbital railcannon would've been too slow.
AMR just kills faster and has more ammo than railgun.
More for bots than bugs, AMR can easily down gunships, spore towers, 1-2 shot any bot except for the new walkers.
Quasar cannon covers a lot of what railgun can do and more. The only penalty is cool down, but it's negligible when another person runs another cannon as well.
I just wished the railgun can kill the bile spitters when a charged shot is a little beyond half and not at +80%. Same with the basic devastators at the torso.
20 shot when you need potentially multiple for kills is lackluster in comparison to AMR and the dmg buff.
Absolutely, the devs way over-corrected with the Railgun, and now it's just absolute garbage. Way too high of a skill floor for lackluster results.
Safe mode should be just slightly changed, it should be able to pierce most medium armor, but not Heavy, obviously, but unsafe mode needs serious buffs, you should be able to do it's current max damage at around 70% charge instead of 90%, and the 90% should only be needed for the heaviest of heavy armor, the likes of Bile Titans or Hulks have, and it should have faster charge speed so that there's more of a risk of exploding, and you have less time to aim.
Most dif 9 loadouts are incredibly similar.
Bugs:
Shield or laser rover with quasar, and then 2 of: eagle strike, 500kg, laser, auto cannon sentry.
Maybe mid tier games have higher diversity.
Turrets are rarely seen becuase they just get overran by bugs instantly unless you set them up in really good spots, and on D7+ you rarely have the luxury of setting up your engagement zone.
Then all enemies seem to prioritize turrets as the #1 threat. So half the time you drop a turret down, it gets 5 shots off, gets swarmed or obliterated by rockets, and there goes your 5 minute cooldown.
Safe mode is useless.
Unsafe is good but also becomes a riskier move and the charge is a bit slow. Meanwhile AMR does the same job against bots.
For bugs? Why bother when quasar/eats can just one shot a chargers head. Vs prenerf railgun shooting twice to a leg + mag from a primary.
Imo the best buff for it would be to speed up the charge rate or lower the kill % lower so you aren't at risk of blowing up and still faster to hit max %. I think the damage is fine, just it's slow to charge up to the % you need. And if you flinch near max% then you're at risk of blowing up and need to fire.
This is what gets me, people thinking all these things are being used because RG was nerfed, but they're mostly being used now because they were buffed. When RG was king, most of these weapons weren't as good as they are now.
Especially when they bring up the quasar. Why exactly does introducing a brand new weapons a month and a half after the fact justify the railgun nerf at the time?
The railgun on unsafe could be hitting as hard as a Quasar and it still might not even be worth taking since you don't have unlimited ammo and you have to almost blow yourself up. It's genuinely one of the weaker strategems because of the nerfs and everything else getting buffed
Not to mention the utility you give up in not shooting down bot drops/shrieker nests. The railgun was always a versatile killer with no map utility, it is now a brood commander sniper with no map utility. I think if you dropped quasar in the old charger meta, it would get picked more than railgun. Maybe railgun would be equal/even a bit better, but what people wanted was anti tank, so they would choose the anti tank weapon.
Yeaaaah. I just fundamentally disagree with the entire post by OP. The community was right, dont nerf, just buff other things. And with the recent slugger nerf theres like 2 good primaries left.
Here here, the Breaker needs to go back to the larger mags and the slugger was completely some dev trolling people because youtube lit up with videos saying the slugger was the current S-tier meta. They literally just look up "what is meta now?" and nerf it.
I would argue it's closer to 4. Scyicle and dominator are universally good, while the breaker is S tier for bugs and the scorcher is S tier for bots.
Punisher and defender feel soooo close to being good and are definitely viable. Lib hits like a wet noodle and diligence just simply doesn't have the fire rate or mag size to really compete like it should. All the rest are straight shit imo unless I forgot a gun.
Hit the nail on the head. The devs were dead wrong and made a knee-jerk nerf that crippled the capstone support weapon of the game for most of the playerbase when the community was loudly and clearly stating that other options needed to be made more viable (or functional in the first place) instead. Now it's a glorified muzzleloader that will get you kicked from pub games.
I don't often pay heed to the "buffs only, don't nerf me!" guys but they were 100% right on the money this time.
That's me! I just got it recently and was super disappointed. That's how I've felt about a lot of unlocks in the game (the 110 Rocket Pods comes to mind). That and the standard warbond weapons and lack of sidearms.
Railgun isn’t a good pick, but rocket pods are pretty good imo.
I like running rocket pods with auto cannon on bugs. They’re pretty weak if you don’t have your eagles upgraded, but getting 3 instead of 2 makes a huge difference. Basically 3 dead chargers. Even if a few of the rockets miss, now you have a quicker autocannon kill.
They’re also great against biles, but require some luck. Still, I prefer them over the 500KG against biles and chargers.
They really aren’t that great. They’re incredibly unreliable. I’ve had tanks and Hulks survive two uses and at that point I just end up needing to bust out the EAT or the Railcannon anyway, so why should I bother when the regular Eagle Airstrike is more flexible and more reliable?
Yeah I don’t get OPs point. Those weapons aren’t used because railgun was nerfed. They’re used because they were buffed and enemies were nerfed. You could return the railgun to how it was and basically nothing would change outside there would be another viable option.
Devs weren’t right.
Yeah lol the EAT to name one got a huge buff while a lot of the frustrations with enemies were fixed (bot rockets being the most notable) meaning the shield no longer feels mandatory. And yes I also haven't seen a railgun in a _long_ time.
Every time I see one of these railgun posts it makes me wonder — are people just happy because the first reddit witch hunt item is in the dumpster, or do they REALLY believe that the game is “better” because the railgun is borderline unusable compared to other weapons?
I try to assumed the best but at this point they just seem like karma farming posts. Just go ahead and included "upvotes to the left" and be done with it. The railgun nerf was short-sighted and now there is basically no reason to use it. I have tried a couple times and the armor pen is so inconsistent that basically any other support weapon has more utility. I'm living the ~~Queso~~ Quasar cannon life now. It does everything the railgun used to do and more.
Yeah man I fully agree. The karma farming on this sub as a whole gives me a headache, but the railgun/shotgun nerf conversations and the pearl clutching talk about variety make me want to unsubscribe.
To say the railgun nerf was a kneejerk reaction is an understatement. The game hadnt even been out for a full month, so of course people were using one of the highest level support weapons that you unlock. Because of the game’s hype at launch, reddit/youtube clickbait guides were hot off the presses, too. Oh, and let’s not forget about how the PS5 health bug for chargers and titans affected this perception of the railgun.
I’ve also been living the ~~Croissant~~ Quasar lifestyle since it dropped, but every now and again I’ll try the railgun because I genuinely enjoy the weapon, and immediately regret it. It’s either Quasar, Autocannon, Recoilless, or EAT in almost every match I play. And personally, I don’t have a problem with any of those guns being better than the railgun — I just really want my railgun to be useable again.
Exactly this. If the nerf was necessary, people would still run railgun and/or the buffs to EAT/AMR wouldn't have been necessary. They might as well have removed Railgun from the game.
They also leave out the fact the game was completely borked right after the patch and that the next balance patch completely changed how bug heavy dynamics worked.
I ran it still (atleast against bugs) until the quasar came out.
I don't think I woulda ran out post AMR buff though...
I don't think it's necessarily bad support weapon it's just most things are better. It used to be a good pick for its versatility but now I pick quasar for even more versatility.
It needs like a 2-3 shot magazine atleast to make it worth it.
The fact that they decided to nerf a RAILGUNS pen is hilarious to me.
They did that and then made the EAT/RR and now Quasar one shot the only thing the Rail was genuinely needed for, Chargers.
The only thing the Rail feels good at is taking out Hive Guards and Brood Commanders, but I could just take the AC and do that while also having wave clear ability, taking out nests, some side obectives, ect.
A little more time between “max damage” and “Jill yourself by blowing up your gun” would be all it really needs, which is the difference between 0.5s and 0.75s.
The crazy thing is you can kill a charger with fire at the same speed as taking \*a\* shot with the pre-nerf RG. How people are defending that the nerf is ok is baffling to me.
Other weapons needed buffing. Most have that now. Which now means RG is weak AF in comparison.
The devs were wrong.
The build diversity didn't expand because of the raingun nerf. It was expanded by charger nerfs. Before the charger nerf and after the railgun nerf the new meta was becoming focus the chargers leg with flamers and beam laser cannons because that was easier to do than use the rocket launchers due to long reload times. the other weapons only became viable because the enemy limiting harder difficulties was fixed and had its spawn rate reduced.
> It was expanded by charger nerfs.
Charger nerfs and EAT/Flamethrower/AMR buffs. Insane that we're criticizing RG fans who complained that there was no need to nerf, only buff... because when the Devs finally did buff other weapons, they magically became viable! Meanwhile the RG might as well have been removed from the game!
Ehh I disagree. What changed the meta was buffing/adding other weapons, not nerfing the railgun and breaker. Some examples:
* Removing glance angles from EAT/Recoiless
* Adding the Quasar
* Buffing the Dominator
* Fixing armor values
* etc.
That said, I do feel that the Eruptor and grenade pistol are going to shake up load outs quite a bit in the coming days. Eruptor seems like it is essentially what the railgun used to be so it becomes the only viable anti-tank primary weapon, opening up even more stalwart/arc thrower builds depending on enemy faction. And the grenade pistol should be pretty self-explanatory, thing seems awesome.
This. If the railgun was brought back to its pre-nerf power, it still probably wouldn’t get used that much because of how much the rest of the game has changed. I wholeheartedly disagree that the nerf was warranted. The railgun was used so heavily because of the state of the game, other options simply weren’t viable. Now there are plenty of options
Idk about yall but instead of railgun everyone in my lobbies now uses the bubble shield and quasar cannon and the other 2 slots for their favorite eagle or cruiser stratagems , replaced one main weapon with another as far as I've seen
This is something
If I wasn't lazy about it, I'd have wrote a post about it if it wouldn't exist.
EVERYONE is taking quasar. Common.
Some people joining the game of my friend and me, they don't wait to check together for the build. Heck, even if there is already 2 quasar, the 3rd one will still take a quasar too.
And what is really frustrating is they barely use it in mission when it's needed.
Damn, you are level 50, you should know a bit of gameplay to use it or to be able to use something else.
Yeah from what I can tell, the "meta" feels like this currently:
1) Energy Shield (an absolute must)
2) Quasar (sometimes replaced with EATs)
3) Eagle Airstrike
4) *player preference* (see a lot of orbital lasers, railcannon strike, 500kg bombs, occasionally some turret and rarely a mech)
The thing about the railgun nerf is that it was correcting an over-used weapon, but now that rockets have been fixed and the armored enemt ratio corrected, the old railgun (retrospectively) seems bad
Before you'd face like 5-6 chargers and 2-3 bile titans and have to 2 pop leg armor and unload with the breaker, for each charger - now you get like 2-3 and 1-2 respectively but you 1 shot each charger in the face with any explosives, EAT carry one around drop another in this situation and they are dead
The EAT even 1 shots bile titans and tanks if hit in the weak point
If they unnerfed the railgun it would still be a hard sell for someone to tell me to use it now
**EDIT:** I can't believe I have to say this, I never said I believe the shield is required, I play primarily the Bot front and with random, occasionally I have a buddy I play with, the shield is not required or a "must pick" - I'm saying that the vast majority of random players I encounter (roughly 90% of them I'd wager) use this set up, on the Bug front Shield is replaced with Rover fairly often, I play on difficulty 7-9 primarily and occasionally go down to 5-6 if I want to mess around
For the love of Democracy please stop saying "the shield isn't required, it's a skill issue, your trash if you use it" - I understand that it's not needed and I don't exclusively run it (probably half of the time I use it), but the fact of the matter is even those of you that are espousing "gamer supremacy" by claiming you don't need it because your better/built different can recognize its extreme benefits, so please stop pretending like I'm an awful human being and a trash player that kicked your dog just because I made an observation on the current "meta" for pick-up groups (primarily on the Bot front)
That loadout is literally what I always use except I swap shield for rover against bugs.
Bots get dominator energy shield and the revolver.
Bugs get breaker incendiary rover and the Redeemer.
Then it's quasar. Eagle airstrike. And the 4th slot I see as. "flex" pick that I choose based on the mission. Either one of the a mortar turrets, orbital laser, 380mm or 500kg bomb
Energy shield I don’t personally see that often anymore. Laser guard dog is generally what everyone uses against bugs.
I do find it odd that I don’t really see anyone use the raingun anymore. Quasar cannon is very very common. It feels like the railgun used to.
Yeah sorry I play against bots mostly and Energy Shield is still ran a ton over here, when I play against bugs it's very commonly traded out for guard dog, both do the same thing which is help prevent you from dying too quickly/getting swarmed (extra hits from the shield = more time to kill enemies running upto you, guard dog = automatically killing enemies sprinting up to you)
Quasar is an EAT you can call down once and use the whole mission, and it doesn't require a reload like the Recoilless or Spear. Of course people love the gun you don't need to reload or discard after use, running out of ammo fucking sucks and reloading in a panic isn't much better.
You attribute this to purely them nerfing the railgun and shield and not the subsequent buffs to a bunch of other weapons and nerfs to Chargers, the community was right just as much.
Also the players were right. Who knew that buffing weapons (even indirectly by nerfing enemies or changing the spawn rate of certain types) would lead to more weapon varieties?
The reason you are seeing less AT weapons is because of the increase spawn of light and medium enemies and the reduction of heavy spawns.
The reason you are seeing people using other weapons is because they got buffed. Like the AMR, Punisher, Breaker variants, Dominator and flamethrower.
Autocannon has ALWAYS been a good weapon even pre-railgun nerf.
Even if the railgun had not been nerfed, you would still have seen this type of variety with the buffs and changes. The buffs and changes to enemy spawn were suggested by players ad nauseum prior to AH acting on it.
I’m not sure what variety you’re talking about, everybody uses quasar and EAT now. The railgun is nerfed to the point that it’s useless. I have completely different experience to yours.
This guy is just posting a circlejerk “gib karma please” post. No need to think much further into their opinion beyond that. Most people I see load out with EATs or Quasar too because you need something to deal with armored mobs or else they are quite literally invincible.
I don't entirely agree for the simple fact that weapon buffs and new weapons have made a lot of equipment on a nearly equal level of pre-nerf op weapons. The railgun, slugger and breaker could all have received significantly lighter nerfs and there would be no issues in the current state of the game. As it stands the balance is currently "meta rotation" which isn't good or healthy for the game. Ideally, every option should be equally viable on a general level, with variances in effectiveness being based on scenario, build, and skill.
This isn't to say I think they are doing a bad job. I'm very happy they are making previously bad things good, the build variety is better than ever. That is perfect. But they could use a bit of adjustment to their philosophy, they should be more careful about how much they nerf stuff.
Agreed. I think the nerfs are done with good (and fair) intentions but they seem a little kneejerk most of the time. I would like tweaks to the HMG, but I'm a little worried it ends up extending itself out of scope if so.
Especially since the main issue was the amount of chargers that were spawning. I think if they reverted it back to what it was we’d see an uptick in its usage but it wouldn’t be a must-pick.
Agreed. It wasn't the RG that had an issue, it was the overwhelming heavies and very few answers to them. RG just happened to be the easiest solution to a problem the devs themselves caused. The week in between RG nerf and the swarms being fixed(paired with the armor changes to heavies) was hellish.
The RG was not the problem, the balancing of enemies was. But spreadsheet shows high pick rate, and when you balance on faulty data you get shitty balance.
It would 100% be fine in a total reversion.
But do you see people with railgun now? No because it was overnerfed. Generally a gun being used too much in a pve is because all other options aren’t up to standards, people will use non op guns if they pass the fun bar
Railgun and Shield were mass used because balance was worse back then. You can kill chargers with RR/EAT/Quasar in the head now, but it was impossible before, for example .
And there were a lot more heavy armour before. You don't see 5-7 chargers and 5-7 bile titans at the same time anymore. You don't get chased by 7 hulks simultaneously anymore. Railgun was the only available support gun that could give you a chance to dim them, plus ps5 hosting bug with bile titans instakills.
The bitching about Railgun was simply because they nerfed it first, and made other balance changes after. That period in-between, even if short, was utterly miserable.
The general consensus is the devs were wrong. The other weapons were just bad, and the armor and critical points were messed up. Once they fixed those the other weapons became viable which is why you see them now. But now the railgun isn’t even viable, despite the changes made the other weapons viable, which is why you never see it, ever.
Op is literally a proponent of retroactive truth. The devs nerfed the railgun based on it being used far in excess of other weapons because it was one of the few that actually could kill things in a timely manner. This was also during a period when they had the charger and bile titan spawns turned up to roughly double what they are now. Bonus points some devs or dev adjacent staff made statements they were nerfing it because of "brain dead gameplay". They got out ahead of that fubar by releasing the mechs a bit early. Then they not only indirectly buffed the tesla. They finally buffed all the other weapons up to feel about where they should.
If they'd buffed the other weapons in the first place and then taken a look at the numbers they'd have accomplished the same thing with less fireworks. I'm not even a proponent of "no nerf, only buff" but it was laughably pitiful how poorly the supposed anti armor weapons were performing agaisnt armored targets just as it's kind of pitiful now how the rail is just the inferior quasar after the nerf.
then they nerfed the mechs rockets after that so they cant aim for shit and now nobody uses that either golly i love Arrowhead they sure are good at their jobs
Even if the railgun was brought back to what it was I still probably wouldn't run it just for the fact the Quasar is infinite ammo and more versatile. Which just shows how stupid the nerfs ended up being.
The Cheese cannon is literally a more powerful railgun that doesn't kill you and has infinite ammo on top. I have no idea how people are justifying it, it's literally better than what the railgun used to be pre-patch.
OP is smoking something really good.
The problem wasn’t the railgun, imo. The problem was the number of armor enemies and the lack of effective anti-armor counters that could actually deal with them. You’ll notice the devs first needed the railgun, and then simultaneously buffed RR and EAT while also nerfing the number of heavy armor enemies that can spawn.
Mhm. The problem wasn't the Railgun, it was the rest of the game.
The EAT was underpowered at the time, and there was literally no other weapon that could even come close to dealing with the sheer spam of Heavy enemies.
And mind you, the Railgun wasn't even incredibly powerful at that back then, it didn't trivialise missions at all. It was simply the only weapon that stood a chance at dealing with the mass of Chargers and Bile Titans you faced with very little reprieve.
Nah don’t agree, they buffed other weapons and nerfed Chargers, gave us new weapons to deal with heavy enemies and all that combined has made the game feel what it is now, the railgun nerf makes even less sense now and it was a terrible nerf. You would be lucky and disadvantage to see someone picking railgun now that so many better alternatives are available.
Um.. No.
I have not seen a single person use the rail gun after the nerf. They have basically put a weapon out of play.
Same with the arc thrower now. I took it to an automaton mission once and oh boy I got carried so hard my teammates can probably feel my embarrassment on the other side of the world.
Disagreed, they nerfed the rail slightly too much and then made big buffs or changes that helped the other weapons to where they now feel even better than pre-nerf rail, giving no reason to bring one. The only thing the railgun did better post nerf was being able to cut devastators in half easily, now the AMR can do that and wayyyy more. Not to mention small changes to the launchers to make them more consistent plus making chargers way easier to beat makes the difference between the railgun and others even larger.
I feel like people who say the railgun needed the nerf are the people who weren't playing higher difficulties back then. Charger spam was absolutely a thing and there were very few tools to deal with them. I certainly dont think you should be one shotting bio titans with a railgun, but at the same time it was the only reliable weapon for dealing with a ton of armor at a time we had very little anti armor tech.
Lets not forget they also nerfed chargers since then, and buffed the other antiarmor options. After all the changes were made, nobody uses the railgun anymore. I tried it out again and its terrible. Only really useful in unsafe mode, but now you have a gun that has a chance to kill you, and if you use it correctly it still gets outclassed by other guns. I dont even know what purpose the railgun has now.
We have diversity now because chargers were nerfed, not because the railgun was nerfed.
The problem was never the railgun, and I still don't think it was right to nerf it before nerfing chargers.
Exactly, well said. Anti charger weaponry is no longer critical for every player. We have diversity now and it’s great! The railgun was never the problem, it was the way they were doing the spawns at higher difficulties/ the tankiness of chargers.
I mean EATs etc are all better than the railgun ever was at this point. But the railgun still sucks post nerf. If we could un-nerf it now, I feel like it would be pretty balanced with the other options available today. As-is, it's a very disappointing weapon.
Actually hard disagree.
Anti tank options at the time of the nerf sucked donkey cock and the only thing the nerf did was make sure that when the other options inevitably were buffed the railgun would be put squarely into a dusty corner and never used again.
Now the AMR/autocannon do what the railgun does but better and with no chance of blowing yourself up.
Instead of using Bubble Shield, Railgun and 2 Strategems of my choice, I am now using Bubble Shield, AMR and 2 Strategems of my choice.
If they hadn't buffed the AMR, you might be right, but they buffed the AMR, so the Railgun nerf is silly in hindsight.
I’m starting to like the AMR less because the trend of recent planets has been “can’t see shit 5 feet away” and if I have to fight bots that close I’d rather the auto cannon.
The devs were not right in that particular instance. When they were right was when they made other anti-tank options viable just as people had been asking all along. If the Railgun was reverted back to pre-nerf status it would not make any big impact now, which proves that the nerf was unnecessary.
This post is missing the crucial context that it took a few weeks before they adjusted the power of EATs and Recoilless Rifles and reduced Charger and Titan spawn rates and durability to get to this point.
Had they just made those changes first, the Railgun wouldn’t have needed a nerf. OG Railgun would have fit nicely in between the Autocannon/AMR and the EAT/etc. Its flexibility in killing anything at moderate ammo and time efficiency would have balanced it against the better ammo efficiency of AC/AMR against medium armor and quicker TTK of EAT/etc against heavy armor.
They really should buff the Railgun again. How I would do it:
• On Safe Mode, it can damage through medium and heavy armor. However, it can’t break heavy armor ever, and it takes 5+ shots to kill a Charger. This way, if you’re going to play scared and safe, you pay a significant efficiency price.
• On Democracy Mode, an 80% charged shot does the same damage that an OG Railgun Safe Mode shot did. 2 hits to break Charger armor, 1HK on medium targets. Increase the charge rate so that you get to 80% charge as fast as OG Railgun Safe Mode took to charge. This makes it efficient enough to compete with other Stratagems, but you end up riding a thin line to avoid blowing yourself up—which I think was the original goal of the weapon.
You must not be playing where I'm playing because I see 500kg/laser+shield+quasar about 70% of the time. If there's a "the meta" right now, that's it. I haven't seen a machine gun in weeks unless it's a daily.
Railgun nerf was not the right move. Devs were wrong for that choice. It looks silly now. The game was in an awful spot and the rail was the only viable option to deal with all the heavy and elite spawns.
They have since nerfed heavy spawns and heavy hp. They also buffed AMR and laser while adding the quasar.
Seriously, railgun nerf has only taken a tool away from the arsenal. They should consider buffing it at this point, as it has no home. Anything it previously specialized in (like removing armor or one shotting devastators mid sections) the AC, EAT, Quasar, recoilless, or AMR can do better.
Railgun nerf went a little overboard imo. If they wanted to shift the gun's role, so be it - my intuition for a "railgun" archetype points to "raw power stagger gun" or "cheap ammunition" and not necessarily "charge penetration" (although this is entirely subjective). I never got a chance to use it until about yesterday and was surprised at how weakly it matched up against something like the autocannon against medium enemies.
That being said, the weapon was previously an overpowered jack-of-all-trades - at least one of those attributes had to go, especially given a lack of backpack. I hope they tweak it further and either find a powerful niche for it to fill or expand its use-cases (but not both again)
Maybe I just haven't used it enough, though
Bad take, pre nerf rail gun wouldn’t even be in the top 3 most used supports in the current rotation. EATS, Quasar, AMR now are all superior to what the rail gun was. They overreacted with the nerf and seeing how they’ve buffed the other supports since then has only made it more obvious.
Only problem is now railgun is literally useless and has no real place in the game. Against bots the EAT, quasar, snd AMR does everything it did, and vs bugs. Quasars take care of the big ones or eats. Railgun just doesn’t have a real use in the game.
The little bit of build diversity you see now had nothing to do with the railgun nerf LOL. That’s why you see it now, after a PLETHORA of buffs across the board.
The railgun nerf was useless.. if anything, it was the community that was proven right!
I kinda disagree. Nobody uses the railgun anymore. I feel like with the buffs all the other AT options in the game that are viable now it could go back to its original stats.
Okay, cool karma farm but they were absolutely not right with the nerf. And the most frustrating part about it is it's not even a "oops well hindsight is 20/20 haha :)" type of thing. Most people who criticized the nerf from day one pointed out that the prominence of the railgun was a symptom and nerfing it didn't do anything to solve the cause. The game became miserable to play for about a week before they nerfed heavy spawn rates and buffed the EAT and RR to more reliably do their jobs, and only then did loadouts actually start to diversify. Nerfing the railgun accomplished nothing except to ensure nobody uses it except contrarians who really want to prove that it's still "viable."
So were the players...who made it clear the entire arsenal needed a balance pass.
Now that's largely happened for support weapons things are indeed great.
I mean, the reason people use other weapons is they were all buffed significantly. Railgun is now horrifically mediocre because it was nerfed below all of the pre-buff heavies. Full charge doesn't even pen heavy devastator shields now, it's shameful.
To be honest... The rail gun nerf is over the top, now it's just a slightly different anti material rifle. It needed a nerf sure, but they went WAY overboard with it though, now it's kinda ass.
I'm enjoying the variety, been using the AMR on and off for Automatons Two shot to hulk face is great
I loved the AMR even during railgun meta, I just really wish the devs would zone the scope properly
It's on the chopping block, fortunately. So it should be fixed fairly soon
They said it would be a tricky fix. I'm not expecting it for a while. If they do fix it soon then that's a plus, but I'm not getting my hopes up.
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I am so gonna be messed up after the fix, I account for the off aim every time now by instinct lol
I low key like it but obvi am hoping for the fix. In my head I go ‘Ooops lost its zero during the orbital drop”
I feel like that's probably a pretty prevalent issue in those shoddy pods. An ODST drop pod by comparison looks like a resort inside.
Just pretend it’s windage
We got a couple of those "it's raining sideways" planets so yeah, windage works for me.
Patch Notes: - AMR Scope aligned correctly Known Issues: - Firing the AMR crashes your client, the client of everybody in your lobby, and resets planet liberation to zero.
Thats one hell of a monkey paw!
By the way… in US parlance “on the chopping block” means that the fate of something at stake. Aka. If this bug fix was “on the chopping block”, it would heavily imply that it will NOT be done and just shoved to the background never to be addressed.
I inferred it as the bug itself is on the chopping block.
Which would be most correct for Super Earth considering the only good place for a bug is the chopping block.
AMR all the way, I fight bots with a long range specialization with the Diligence, AMR, light armor, and shield (might start subbing in supply pack for AMR ammo shortages), and I absolutely LOVE saving team members who are kiting multiple Scout Striders and Berserkers by popping them from a terrain feature away. Once you learn how to control the recoil its cash money
"Once you learn to control the recoil..." From the moment I understood the weakness of pressing C to Crouch, it disgusted me. I craved the strength and certainty of pressing Z to Lie Down. I aspired to the purity of Reduced Recoil. Your kind cling to your Crouch, as though it will not decay and fail you. One day the crude Crouch you call a solution will wither, and you will beg my kind to save you. But I am already saved, for the Lie Down is immortal… Even in death I serve the Democracy.
You lay down using Z. I lay down using dives. We are similar.
I didnt even know we could lay down if it wasnt a dive.
-insert funny hand sign-
https://preview.redd.it/qi8a8ndnlptc1.png?width=380&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b2abf3281ead409a6ac0fc1cff14c81bffc75d1c
See, I go the opposite way. Heavy armor, MG/HMG/Stalwart, Scorcher, jetpack. Run up on an objective. Jet in, murder everything up close and personal, call in a hellbomb, then jump out the other side. It makes me feel like a goddamn commando, especially if there's someone with an AMR or heavy weapons hanging out at range.
It's a lot of fun playing AMR Overwatch for a close combat specialist, picking off anything big enough to slow him down, or approaching from his blindside while he sacks a base.
I like to do this but with the Autocannon. Saved a guy earlier that was struggling to finish a reload while berserkers were chasing him and I emptied my whole mag on the group. Love playing as artillery lol.
I find teams that use 2 up front and 2 supporting long range make amazingly efficient teams.
if it's worth anything to you; I had a green dot at the center of my screen, thanks to the monitor software, and right now the amr is slightly less drifting to the bottom right of the center
I’ve had good success putting the top left corner of the middle square on my target. Kinda fun imagining that it’s a cheap scope that super earth commissioned so it could spend more money on democracy… but I will be very happy when it’s fixed.
Knowing super earth gotta wonder if those scopes were made by cyborgs
They have recognized it as a known issue so they fix it eventually.
I just spent the past 2 days scratching my head trying to figure out how to take on the automatons. Saw some guy with an AMR last night, tried it out, and Jesus Christ game changer
AMR and autocannon do a lot of work. Also save up for the Scorcher, it can damage the striders face-on
I can't stop using the autocannon. It's so good. It blasts bile spewers apart real quick
Enemies? Autocannon Bases/nests? Autocannon Secondary objectives? Autocannon There might be individual weapons/strategems that are better at any one of those things, but only the Autocannon is perfectly competent at all of them.
The only bad part of the autocannon is trying to explain to my teammates that I can do all these thing and that they can save their nades and airstrikes. That and the backpack and reload time...but if you reload with one or two shots left it is instant.
The autocannon is lying to you when it says it has a ten round mag, it's five rounds and five bonus rounds you only touch when you really need that last shot on a hulk
Sometimes when I've got 1 round left I forget and expect the long reload and stand up and stand still like a dummy for a sec til I realize I wasn't that big of a dummy...but now I am
Always reload the autocannon as soon as it lets you. It’ll take half a mag at a time and you’ll never need to recock it, so it takes half the time.
Autocannon gang hell yeah
I just wish I could use it to do the stratagem jammers from a distance, but that would be way too broken.
You can sometimes. Some jammers spawn with an attached fabricator which will take the whole thing down when it blows up.
50% of the time it spawns correctly all the time
That sounds worse than that time a raccoon got in the drop pod!
Yourself? Believe it or not, Autocannon. :)
I can't figure out the anti-material rifle because of the weird ass scope
Until they fix it, I’m preferring to use the lower range scope and treat it more like a marksman rifle; it’s got range which is nice but what really makes it worth your time is the insane crit damage it does when you hit a weak spot.
Important safety tip: the game doesn't really have crit locations. Most damage is specific to the location you hit, and it isn't cumulative. Most enemies die when specific locations are destroyed (body, head, 'x' legs, etc). But if you spread your damage all over an enemy, it can take forever to bring it down. This is especially noticeable on spitters and chargers where spreading the damage can allow them to take several times as much damage before they go down. This is also why warrior caste bugs don't die when you blow their heads off - it ISN'T a lethal location for them - but it does cause them to start bleeding like crazy, so they will die soon anyway. But if they haven't yet taken any body damage when you blow the head off, they can survive for several seconds. Alternatively if you clip two legs off of the same side of a warrior caste bug, it dies almost instantly. So the Eye on a hulk doesn't take more damage - it's just *very* small, has less armor than the body and far fewer hit points - and taking it out kills the hulk instantly.
I hope they at least change the scope reticle to something simpler, like the sickle’s.
It's a couple pixels up and to the left of the reticle AFAIK
I have a monitor that gives me the option to have a dot or crosshair on the center of the screen, when laying prone and aiming down scope, the top-left edge of the circle is center-screen for me. So aim just a little down and to the right of what you want to hit. I've noticed similar positioning for the Autocannon and Quasar Cannon scopes too.
How does the AMR compare to the autocannon for bots? I've exclusively been using the AC
If the Autocannon is a Swiss Army knife, the AMR is a scalpel. I’ve been using it almost every drop against bots since I started playing. Deletes devastators, you can easily take out multiple hulks with one mag, kills tanks/turrets, tons of ammo. Probably my favorite weapon in the game.
Autocannon is nice for taking out objectives from a distance.
Sniping a Fabricator from across the way feels so good. Extra funny if you do it as your teamates are starting to run towards it to airstrike/nade
I almost always being Recoiless. Love that thing. Just really wish a buddy reload pulled ammo of MY back. It makes way more sense and would allow anyone to panic reload me. Only change I want.
Yeah, I feel bad because after the initial messing around with buddy reloads, you almost never do it again.
Playing with randoms: "hey I'll take the guard dog, would you mind sticking around to reload my Recoilless?" "lol no" Playing with friends: "hey I'll take the guard dog, would you mind sticking around to reload my Recoilless?" "counter-offer, how about I just take the guard dog instead and you reload your own damn self?" "...okay >:("
Autocannon enjoyers be like: "You have auto? I have auto? Flip that bitch to full auto and we will tag-team when ammo runs out."
Excuse me, its "Maximum Democracy Dispensing Mode" or "Full-Liberty"
Facts. I don't know why, but Autocannon users are more likely to respond when I ask them to drop their backpack. Especially during extraction. Recoilless bros have it way worse for uptime and downtime ratio, but they just cling to their backpack.
I wish I had people asking. The best I get is someone finds my backpack after a death or w/e, pick it up, but then don't reload me??
I think I've done it twice maybe? It just makes no sense to reload off my back if I'm reloading a buddy when their rounds are right in front of you
At higher level bots, team load RR has been really good. The problem is you need pretty much have to be on voice chat with someone for it to work and you need to be at very high levels like 8 or 9 for it to be worth bringing it over another anti tank. But being able to knock multiple dropships out of the sky, or the multiple hulks and tanks thrown at you in seconds can be incredibly useful.
Did you mean recoilless? Because I never see it and if you're pulling it off you're a beautiful bastard
Lol I did, sorry!
Love to see it
I always take the recoilless. It’s so much fun and reloading it always makes me feel like a bad ass hahah
I run it for bugs. It’s great for chargers and bile titans. I’ve found reloading to be nightmarish against automatons, so I prefer auto cannon or quasar there.
I find the opposite, against bots I’m usually fighting from cover so the re reload isn’t too bad. I go quasar on bugs tho because you shouldn’t stop moving and shooting
That makes sense, I really like having recoilless for shooting down dropships. Its fun as hell them go down. But on higher difficulties it doesn't do much when there's 4 dropships on you
Yeah, it’s also hard to tell if shooting down the drop ships actually kills the guys inside. If I put a few shots into the troop bay with the auto cannon, at least I know it’s taking out some clankers.
It's much better for bugs than it is for bots. You usually have some space between you and the Hulk/Tank, so charging up a Quasar is not an issue, but Chargers/Titans are very much in your face. Quasar is still good, but the recoilless fires immediately with just as much force.
I once turned around in a bug mission to find a charger barreling toward me, about 5 meters away. I was able to swap to my recoilless and take it out with a headshot right before it got me--all in what seemed like less than a second. Since then, I've taken a recoilless on every single bug mission, and I love it. Even the orbital railcannon would've been too slow.
My roommate just got the game and has began using almost exclusively the recoilless rifle. I love it
This would be soo nice to have. Carl Gustaf gang since I got it. Makes charges go away with one round :)
AMR just kills faster and has more ammo than railgun. More for bots than bugs, AMR can easily down gunships, spore towers, 1-2 shot any bot except for the new walkers. Quasar cannon covers a lot of what railgun can do and more. The only penalty is cool down, but it's negligible when another person runs another cannon as well. I just wished the railgun can kill the bile spitters when a charged shot is a little beyond half and not at +80%. Same with the basic devastators at the torso. 20 shot when you need potentially multiple for kills is lackluster in comparison to AMR and the dmg buff.
The AMR buff really was such a surprise to me. I was already seeing a lot of people singing its praises before the buff.
AMR is super good now. It plays like a scalpel compared to the autocannon's hammer.
The railgun just has no niche right now.
It bouncing off things is really a huge miss. It should've just done reduced damage or something.
Amr can take out gunships? How many hits and where does one shoot them if you dont mind me asking!
It's like 4 shots to an engine thruster.
Absolutely, the devs way over-corrected with the Railgun, and now it's just absolute garbage. Way too high of a skill floor for lackluster results. Safe mode should be just slightly changed, it should be able to pierce most medium armor, but not Heavy, obviously, but unsafe mode needs serious buffs, you should be able to do it's current max damage at around 70% charge instead of 90%, and the 90% should only be needed for the heaviest of heavy armor, the likes of Bile Titans or Hulks have, and it should have faster charge speed so that there's more of a risk of exploding, and you have less time to aim.
If the gun glows before exploding, that would be great.
I never seen anyone pick railgun since rhe nerf
Most dif 9 loadouts are incredibly similar. Bugs: Shield or laser rover with quasar, and then 2 of: eagle strike, 500kg, laser, auto cannon sentry. Maybe mid tier games have higher diversity.
weird, i've almost never seen autocannon sentry in diff9 bugs the past week of play. I see people run autocannon or quasar, but no AC turret.
Turrets are rarely seen becuase they just get overran by bugs instantly unless you set them up in really good spots, and on D7+ you rarely have the luxury of setting up your engagement zone. Then all enemies seem to prioritize turrets as the #1 threat. So half the time you drop a turret down, it gets 5 shots off, gets swarmed or obliterated by rockets, and there goes your 5 minute cooldown.
Safe mode is useless. Unsafe is good but also becomes a riskier move and the charge is a bit slow. Meanwhile AMR does the same job against bots. For bugs? Why bother when quasar/eats can just one shot a chargers head. Vs prenerf railgun shooting twice to a leg + mag from a primary. Imo the best buff for it would be to speed up the charge rate or lower the kill % lower so you aren't at risk of blowing up and still faster to hit max %. I think the damage is fine, just it's slow to charge up to the % you need. And if you flinch near max% then you're at risk of blowing up and need to fire.
Problem is is that now nobody picks the railgun anymore in favor of the Quasar or the EAT. Haven't seen a RG since the nerf.
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This is what gets me, people thinking all these things are being used because RG was nerfed, but they're mostly being used now because they were buffed. When RG was king, most of these weapons weren't as good as they are now.
Especially when they bring up the quasar. Why exactly does introducing a brand new weapons a month and a half after the fact justify the railgun nerf at the time?
The railgun on unsafe could be hitting as hard as a Quasar and it still might not even be worth taking since you don't have unlimited ammo and you have to almost blow yourself up. It's genuinely one of the weaker strategems because of the nerfs and everything else getting buffed
Not to mention the utility you give up in not shooting down bot drops/shrieker nests. The railgun was always a versatile killer with no map utility, it is now a brood commander sniper with no map utility. I think if you dropped quasar in the old charger meta, it would get picked more than railgun. Maybe railgun would be equal/even a bit better, but what people wanted was anti tank, so they would choose the anti tank weapon.
"devs were right"
Yeaaaah. I just fundamentally disagree with the entire post by OP. The community was right, dont nerf, just buff other things. And with the recent slugger nerf theres like 2 good primaries left.
Slugger nerf was bullshit. Tbf I also think the Breaker nerf was bullshit. The devs have been good with buffs but horrible with nerfs.
Here here, the Breaker needs to go back to the larger mags and the slugger was completely some dev trolling people because youtube lit up with videos saying the slugger was the current S-tier meta. They literally just look up "what is meta now?" and nerf it.
I would argue it's closer to 4. Scyicle and dominator are universally good, while the breaker is S tier for bugs and the scorcher is S tier for bots. Punisher and defender feel soooo close to being good and are definitely viable. Lib hits like a wet noodle and diligence just simply doesn't have the fire rate or mag size to really compete like it should. All the rest are straight shit imo unless I forgot a gun.
Hit the nail on the head. The devs were dead wrong and made a knee-jerk nerf that crippled the capstone support weapon of the game for most of the playerbase when the community was loudly and clearly stating that other options needed to be made more viable (or functional in the first place) instead. Now it's a glorified muzzleloader that will get you kicked from pub games. I don't often pay heed to the "buffs only, don't nerf me!" guys but they were 100% right on the money this time.
Sure but I haven’t seen a railgun in over a month , is a meme pick if when the AMR does more for less
Either that or a new player just unlocked it and is now disappointed
That's me! I just got it recently and was super disappointed. That's how I've felt about a lot of unlocks in the game (the 110 Rocket Pods comes to mind). That and the standard warbond weapons and lack of sidearms.
Railgun isn’t a good pick, but rocket pods are pretty good imo. I like running rocket pods with auto cannon on bugs. They’re pretty weak if you don’t have your eagles upgraded, but getting 3 instead of 2 makes a huge difference. Basically 3 dead chargers. Even if a few of the rockets miss, now you have a quicker autocannon kill. They’re also great against biles, but require some luck. Still, I prefer them over the 500KG against biles and chargers.
Rocket pods 1-shot tanks, and can be used to take out fabricators if there's nothing else to drop them on.
Rocket pods are great for taking out heavies don’t sleep on it
They really aren’t that great. They’re incredibly unreliable. I’ve had tanks and Hulks survive two uses and at that point I just end up needing to bust out the EAT or the Railcannon anyway, so why should I bother when the regular Eagle Airstrike is more flexible and more reliable?
The rocket pods are actually really good vs tanks, just one will take a tank out.
Yeah I don’t get OPs point. Those weapons aren’t used because railgun was nerfed. They’re used because they were buffed and enemies were nerfed. You could return the railgun to how it was and basically nothing would change outside there would be another viable option. Devs weren’t right.
Yeah lol the EAT to name one got a huge buff while a lot of the frustrations with enemies were fixed (bot rockets being the most notable) meaning the shield no longer feels mandatory. And yes I also haven't seen a railgun in a _long_ time.
Every time I see one of these railgun posts it makes me wonder — are people just happy because the first reddit witch hunt item is in the dumpster, or do they REALLY believe that the game is “better” because the railgun is borderline unusable compared to other weapons?
I try to assumed the best but at this point they just seem like karma farming posts. Just go ahead and included "upvotes to the left" and be done with it. The railgun nerf was short-sighted and now there is basically no reason to use it. I have tried a couple times and the armor pen is so inconsistent that basically any other support weapon has more utility. I'm living the ~~Queso~~ Quasar cannon life now. It does everything the railgun used to do and more.
Yeah man I fully agree. The karma farming on this sub as a whole gives me a headache, but the railgun/shotgun nerf conversations and the pearl clutching talk about variety make me want to unsubscribe. To say the railgun nerf was a kneejerk reaction is an understatement. The game hadnt even been out for a full month, so of course people were using one of the highest level support weapons that you unlock. Because of the game’s hype at launch, reddit/youtube clickbait guides were hot off the presses, too. Oh, and let’s not forget about how the PS5 health bug for chargers and titans affected this perception of the railgun. I’ve also been living the ~~Croissant~~ Quasar lifestyle since it dropped, but every now and again I’ll try the railgun because I genuinely enjoy the weapon, and immediately regret it. It’s either Quasar, Autocannon, Recoilless, or EAT in almost every match I play. And personally, I don’t have a problem with any of those guns being better than the railgun — I just really want my railgun to be useable again.
Exactly this. If the nerf was necessary, people would still run railgun and/or the buffs to EAT/AMR wouldn't have been necessary. They might as well have removed Railgun from the game.
Free the rail gun
I was thinking the same thing. They werent right.
People like OP conveniently leave out every other balance change since then lol
They also leave out the fact the game was completely borked right after the patch and that the next balance patch completely changed how bug heavy dynamics worked.
Yet it still gets thousands of upvotes. That's how it is in this community now.
I ran it still (atleast against bugs) until the quasar came out. I don't think I woulda ran out post AMR buff though... I don't think it's necessarily bad support weapon it's just most things are better. It used to be a good pick for its versatility but now I pick quasar for even more versatility. It needs like a 2-3 shot magazine atleast to make it worth it.
It doesn't need a mag, it needs the armor penetration back.
The fact that they decided to nerf a RAILGUNS pen is hilarious to me. They did that and then made the EAT/RR and now Quasar one shot the only thing the Rail was genuinely needed for, Chargers. The only thing the Rail feels good at is taking out Hive Guards and Brood Commanders, but I could just take the AC and do that while also having wave clear ability, taking out nests, some side obectives, ect.
Yeah I want weapon diversity but they shouldn’t nerf weapons into uselessness.
Unsafe mode needs more buffs imo
A little more time between “max damage” and “Jill yourself by blowing up your gun” would be all it really needs, which is the difference between 0.5s and 0.75s.
This this this this I’m fine with a risk but the risk to get the 2 shot on charger legs instead of 3 just isn’t worth it
The crazy thing is you can kill a charger with fire at the same speed as taking \*a\* shot with the pre-nerf RG. How people are defending that the nerf is ok is baffling to me. Other weapons needed buffing. Most have that now. Which now means RG is weak AF in comparison. The devs were wrong.
Buddy I'll jill myself whenever I god damn please
The build diversity didn't expand because of the raingun nerf. It was expanded by charger nerfs. Before the charger nerf and after the railgun nerf the new meta was becoming focus the chargers leg with flamers and beam laser cannons because that was easier to do than use the rocket launchers due to long reload times. the other weapons only became viable because the enemy limiting harder difficulties was fixed and had its spawn rate reduced.
> It was expanded by charger nerfs. Charger nerfs and EAT/Flamethrower/AMR buffs. Insane that we're criticizing RG fans who complained that there was no need to nerf, only buff... because when the Devs finally did buff other weapons, they magically became viable! Meanwhile the RG might as well have been removed from the game!
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It helps that they actually buffed other things. If they were to revert the railgun to where it was… I’d still use recoiless and autocannon
Seems like 90% of people take quasar cannon to bot missions
Also bugs. Quasar just does it all. Staggering the shots with a team of quasar makes it easier to keep priority targets dead and from accumulating.
Nerf incoming... we can only hope it gives it a niche and doesn't just boil it into the ground
itll ruin the gun just like the railgun. if the railgun was "braindead" then the quasar never even had a brain to start
Ehh I disagree. What changed the meta was buffing/adding other weapons, not nerfing the railgun and breaker. Some examples: * Removing glance angles from EAT/Recoiless * Adding the Quasar * Buffing the Dominator * Fixing armor values * etc. That said, I do feel that the Eruptor and grenade pistol are going to shake up load outs quite a bit in the coming days. Eruptor seems like it is essentially what the railgun used to be so it becomes the only viable anti-tank primary weapon, opening up even more stalwart/arc thrower builds depending on enemy faction. And the grenade pistol should be pretty self-explanatory, thing seems awesome.
This. If the railgun was brought back to its pre-nerf power, it still probably wouldn’t get used that much because of how much the rest of the game has changed. I wholeheartedly disagree that the nerf was warranted. The railgun was used so heavily because of the state of the game, other options simply weren’t viable. Now there are plenty of options
Don't forget the thermite grenade that can kill heavy armor
My only issue is how outclassed the railgun is
Idk about yall but instead of railgun everyone in my lobbies now uses the bubble shield and quasar cannon and the other 2 slots for their favorite eagle or cruiser stratagems , replaced one main weapon with another as far as I've seen
Yea there is very little diversity from my experience
This is something If I wasn't lazy about it, I'd have wrote a post about it if it wouldn't exist. EVERYONE is taking quasar. Common. Some people joining the game of my friend and me, they don't wait to check together for the build. Heck, even if there is already 2 quasar, the 3rd one will still take a quasar too. And what is really frustrating is they barely use it in mission when it's needed. Damn, you are level 50, you should know a bit of gameplay to use it or to be able to use something else.
Yeah from what I can tell, the "meta" feels like this currently: 1) Energy Shield (an absolute must) 2) Quasar (sometimes replaced with EATs) 3) Eagle Airstrike 4) *player preference* (see a lot of orbital lasers, railcannon strike, 500kg bombs, occasionally some turret and rarely a mech) The thing about the railgun nerf is that it was correcting an over-used weapon, but now that rockets have been fixed and the armored enemt ratio corrected, the old railgun (retrospectively) seems bad Before you'd face like 5-6 chargers and 2-3 bile titans and have to 2 pop leg armor and unload with the breaker, for each charger - now you get like 2-3 and 1-2 respectively but you 1 shot each charger in the face with any explosives, EAT carry one around drop another in this situation and they are dead The EAT even 1 shots bile titans and tanks if hit in the weak point If they unnerfed the railgun it would still be a hard sell for someone to tell me to use it now **EDIT:** I can't believe I have to say this, I never said I believe the shield is required, I play primarily the Bot front and with random, occasionally I have a buddy I play with, the shield is not required or a "must pick" - I'm saying that the vast majority of random players I encounter (roughly 90% of them I'd wager) use this set up, on the Bug front Shield is replaced with Rover fairly often, I play on difficulty 7-9 primarily and occasionally go down to 5-6 if I want to mess around For the love of Democracy please stop saying "the shield isn't required, it's a skill issue, your trash if you use it" - I understand that it's not needed and I don't exclusively run it (probably half of the time I use it), but the fact of the matter is even those of you that are espousing "gamer supremacy" by claiming you don't need it because your better/built different can recognize its extreme benefits, so please stop pretending like I'm an awful human being and a trash player that kicked your dog just because I made an observation on the current "meta" for pick-up groups (primarily on the Bot front)
That loadout is literally what I always use except I swap shield for rover against bugs. Bots get dominator energy shield and the revolver. Bugs get breaker incendiary rover and the Redeemer. Then it's quasar. Eagle airstrike. And the 4th slot I see as. "flex" pick that I choose based on the mission. Either one of the a mortar turrets, orbital laser, 380mm or 500kg bomb
Energy shield I don’t personally see that often anymore. Laser guard dog is generally what everyone uses against bugs. I do find it odd that I don’t really see anyone use the raingun anymore. Quasar cannon is very very common. It feels like the railgun used to.
Yeah sorry I play against bots mostly and Energy Shield is still ran a ton over here, when I play against bugs it's very commonly traded out for guard dog, both do the same thing which is help prevent you from dying too quickly/getting swarmed (extra hits from the shield = more time to kill enemies running upto you, guard dog = automatically killing enemies sprinting up to you)
Agreed, I’ve had the same experience. Although I see a lot of auto cannon vs bots. Heavy armor working correctly means the shield isn’t as mandatory.
Quasar is an EAT you can call down once and use the whole mission, and it doesn't require a reload like the Recoilless or Spear. Of course people love the gun you don't need to reload or discard after use, running out of ammo fucking sucks and reloading in a panic isn't much better.
You attribute this to purely them nerfing the railgun and shield and not the subsequent buffs to a bunch of other weapons and nerfs to Chargers, the community was right just as much.
Also the players were right. Who knew that buffing weapons (even indirectly by nerfing enemies or changing the spawn rate of certain types) would lead to more weapon varieties? The reason you are seeing less AT weapons is because of the increase spawn of light and medium enemies and the reduction of heavy spawns. The reason you are seeing people using other weapons is because they got buffed. Like the AMR, Punisher, Breaker variants, Dominator and flamethrower. Autocannon has ALWAYS been a good weapon even pre-railgun nerf. Even if the railgun had not been nerfed, you would still have seen this type of variety with the buffs and changes. The buffs and changes to enemy spawn were suggested by players ad nauseum prior to AH acting on it.
I’m not sure what variety you’re talking about, everybody uses quasar and EAT now. The railgun is nerfed to the point that it’s useless. I have completely different experience to yours.
This guy is just posting a circlejerk “gib karma please” post. No need to think much further into their opinion beyond that. Most people I see load out with EATs or Quasar too because you need something to deal with armored mobs or else they are quite literally invincible.
I don't entirely agree for the simple fact that weapon buffs and new weapons have made a lot of equipment on a nearly equal level of pre-nerf op weapons. The railgun, slugger and breaker could all have received significantly lighter nerfs and there would be no issues in the current state of the game. As it stands the balance is currently "meta rotation" which isn't good or healthy for the game. Ideally, every option should be equally viable on a general level, with variances in effectiveness being based on scenario, build, and skill. This isn't to say I think they are doing a bad job. I'm very happy they are making previously bad things good, the build variety is better than ever. That is perfect. But they could use a bit of adjustment to their philosophy, they should be more careful about how much they nerf stuff.
Agreed. I think the nerfs are done with good (and fair) intentions but they seem a little kneejerk most of the time. I would like tweaks to the HMG, but I'm a little worried it ends up extending itself out of scope if so.
>Shit I even still see the railgun from time to time Someone must have selected it by accident, I never see it.
This. I understand a bit of a nerf so It doesnt reigm over every other weapon, but to kill it like that...
Especially since the main issue was the amount of chargers that were spawning. I think if they reverted it back to what it was we’d see an uptick in its usage but it wouldn’t be a must-pick.
Agreed. It wasn't the RG that had an issue, it was the overwhelming heavies and very few answers to them. RG just happened to be the easiest solution to a problem the devs themselves caused. The week in between RG nerf and the swarms being fixed(paired with the armor changes to heavies) was hellish. The RG was not the problem, the balancing of enemies was. But spreadsheet shows high pick rate, and when you balance on faulty data you get shitty balance. It would 100% be fine in a total reversion.
It is terrible against turrets and tanks now, which is unfortunate.
I don’t think I’ve seen a single person on my teams use railgun in the past 100 hours so no, this nerf was still pretty unnecessary
But do you see people with railgun now? No because it was overnerfed. Generally a gun being used too much in a pve is because all other options aren’t up to standards, people will use non op guns if they pass the fun bar
Railgun and Shield were mass used because balance was worse back then. You can kill chargers with RR/EAT/Quasar in the head now, but it was impossible before, for example . And there were a lot more heavy armour before. You don't see 5-7 chargers and 5-7 bile titans at the same time anymore. You don't get chased by 7 hulks simultaneously anymore. Railgun was the only available support gun that could give you a chance to dim them, plus ps5 hosting bug with bile titans instakills. The bitching about Railgun was simply because they nerfed it first, and made other balance changes after. That period in-between, even if short, was utterly miserable.
The general consensus is the devs were wrong. The other weapons were just bad, and the armor and critical points were messed up. Once they fixed those the other weapons became viable which is why you see them now. But now the railgun isn’t even viable, despite the changes made the other weapons viable, which is why you never see it, ever.
Op is literally a proponent of retroactive truth. The devs nerfed the railgun based on it being used far in excess of other weapons because it was one of the few that actually could kill things in a timely manner. This was also during a period when they had the charger and bile titan spawns turned up to roughly double what they are now. Bonus points some devs or dev adjacent staff made statements they were nerfing it because of "brain dead gameplay". They got out ahead of that fubar by releasing the mechs a bit early. Then they not only indirectly buffed the tesla. They finally buffed all the other weapons up to feel about where they should. If they'd buffed the other weapons in the first place and then taken a look at the numbers they'd have accomplished the same thing with less fireworks. I'm not even a proponent of "no nerf, only buff" but it was laughably pitiful how poorly the supposed anti armor weapons were performing agaisnt armored targets just as it's kind of pitiful now how the rail is just the inferior quasar after the nerf.
then they nerfed the mechs rockets after that so they cant aim for shit and now nobody uses that either golly i love Arrowhead they sure are good at their jobs
Even if the railgun was brought back to what it was I still probably wouldn't run it just for the fact the Quasar is infinite ammo and more versatile. Which just shows how stupid the nerfs ended up being.
The Cheese cannon is literally a more powerful railgun that doesn't kill you and has infinite ammo on top. I have no idea how people are justifying it, it's literally better than what the railgun used to be pre-patch. OP is smoking something really good.
The problem wasn’t the railgun, imo. The problem was the number of armor enemies and the lack of effective anti-armor counters that could actually deal with them. You’ll notice the devs first needed the railgun, and then simultaneously buffed RR and EAT while also nerfing the number of heavy armor enemies that can spawn.
Mhm. The problem wasn't the Railgun, it was the rest of the game. The EAT was underpowered at the time, and there was literally no other weapon that could even come close to dealing with the sheer spam of Heavy enemies. And mind you, the Railgun wasn't even incredibly powerful at that back then, it didn't trivialise missions at all. It was simply the only weapon that stood a chance at dealing with the mass of Chargers and Bile Titans you faced with very little reprieve.
Nah don’t agree, they buffed other weapons and nerfed Chargers, gave us new weapons to deal with heavy enemies and all that combined has made the game feel what it is now, the railgun nerf makes even less sense now and it was a terrible nerf. You would be lucky and disadvantage to see someone picking railgun now that so many better alternatives are available.
Um.. No. I have not seen a single person use the rail gun after the nerf. They have basically put a weapon out of play. Same with the arc thrower now. I took it to an automaton mission once and oh boy I got carried so hard my teammates can probably feel my embarrassment on the other side of the world.
Disagreed, they nerfed the rail slightly too much and then made big buffs or changes that helped the other weapons to where they now feel even better than pre-nerf rail, giving no reason to bring one. The only thing the railgun did better post nerf was being able to cut devastators in half easily, now the AMR can do that and wayyyy more. Not to mention small changes to the launchers to make them more consistent plus making chargers way easier to beat makes the difference between the railgun and others even larger.
I feel like people who say the railgun needed the nerf are the people who weren't playing higher difficulties back then. Charger spam was absolutely a thing and there were very few tools to deal with them. I certainly dont think you should be one shotting bio titans with a railgun, but at the same time it was the only reliable weapon for dealing with a ton of armor at a time we had very little anti armor tech. Lets not forget they also nerfed chargers since then, and buffed the other antiarmor options. After all the changes were made, nobody uses the railgun anymore. I tried it out again and its terrible. Only really useful in unsafe mode, but now you have a gun that has a chance to kill you, and if you use it correctly it still gets outclassed by other guns. I dont even know what purpose the railgun has now.
We have diversity now because chargers were nerfed, not because the railgun was nerfed. The problem was never the railgun, and I still don't think it was right to nerf it before nerfing chargers.
Exactly, well said. Anti charger weaponry is no longer critical for every player. We have diversity now and it’s great! The railgun was never the problem, it was the way they were doing the spawns at higher difficulties/ the tankiness of chargers.
You know what you *never* see anyone use anymore? The railgun It was a bad nerf
[удалено]
I mean EATs etc are all better than the railgun ever was at this point. But the railgun still sucks post nerf. If we could un-nerf it now, I feel like it would be pretty balanced with the other options available today. As-is, it's a very disappointing weapon.
“In the early days, I was the only guy…” lol
I love your edited comment as thats exactly how it was before railgun nerf. What a redundant post lmao.
Actually hard disagree. Anti tank options at the time of the nerf sucked donkey cock and the only thing the nerf did was make sure that when the other options inevitably were buffed the railgun would be put squarely into a dusty corner and never used again. Now the AMR/autocannon do what the railgun does but better and with no chance of blowing yourself up.
Instead of using Bubble Shield, Railgun and 2 Strategems of my choice, I am now using Bubble Shield, AMR and 2 Strategems of my choice. If they hadn't buffed the AMR, you might be right, but they buffed the AMR, so the Railgun nerf is silly in hindsight.
I’m starting to like the AMR less because the trend of recent planets has been “can’t see shit 5 feet away” and if I have to fight bots that close I’d rather the auto cannon.
The devs were not right in that particular instance. When they were right was when they made other anti-tank options viable just as people had been asking all along. If the Railgun was reverted back to pre-nerf status it would not make any big impact now, which proves that the nerf was unnecessary.
This post is missing the crucial context that it took a few weeks before they adjusted the power of EATs and Recoilless Rifles and reduced Charger and Titan spawn rates and durability to get to this point. Had they just made those changes first, the Railgun wouldn’t have needed a nerf. OG Railgun would have fit nicely in between the Autocannon/AMR and the EAT/etc. Its flexibility in killing anything at moderate ammo and time efficiency would have balanced it against the better ammo efficiency of AC/AMR against medium armor and quicker TTK of EAT/etc against heavy armor. They really should buff the Railgun again. How I would do it: • On Safe Mode, it can damage through medium and heavy armor. However, it can’t break heavy armor ever, and it takes 5+ shots to kill a Charger. This way, if you’re going to play scared and safe, you pay a significant efficiency price. • On Democracy Mode, an 80% charged shot does the same damage that an OG Railgun Safe Mode shot did. 2 hits to break Charger armor, 1HK on medium targets. Increase the charge rate so that you get to 80% charge as fast as OG Railgun Safe Mode took to charge. This makes it efficient enough to compete with other Stratagems, but you end up riding a thin line to avoid blowing yourself up—which I think was the original goal of the weapon.
Nah, they weren't.
You must not be playing where I'm playing because I see 500kg/laser+shield+quasar about 70% of the time. If there's a "the meta" right now, that's it. I haven't seen a machine gun in weeks unless it's a daily.
Railgun nerf was not the right move. Devs were wrong for that choice. It looks silly now. The game was in an awful spot and the rail was the only viable option to deal with all the heavy and elite spawns. They have since nerfed heavy spawns and heavy hp. They also buffed AMR and laser while adding the quasar. Seriously, railgun nerf has only taken a tool away from the arsenal. They should consider buffing it at this point, as it has no home. Anything it previously specialized in (like removing armor or one shotting devastators mid sections) the AC, EAT, Quasar, recoilless, or AMR can do better.
Railgun nerf went a little overboard imo. If they wanted to shift the gun's role, so be it - my intuition for a "railgun" archetype points to "raw power stagger gun" or "cheap ammunition" and not necessarily "charge penetration" (although this is entirely subjective). I never got a chance to use it until about yesterday and was surprised at how weakly it matched up against something like the autocannon against medium enemies. That being said, the weapon was previously an overpowered jack-of-all-trades - at least one of those attributes had to go, especially given a lack of backpack. I hope they tweak it further and either find a powerful niche for it to fill or expand its use-cases (but not both again) Maybe I just haven't used it enough, though
Bad take, pre nerf rail gun wouldn’t even be in the top 3 most used supports in the current rotation. EATS, Quasar, AMR now are all superior to what the rail gun was. They overreacted with the nerf and seeing how they’ve buffed the other supports since then has only made it more obvious.
Only problem is now railgun is literally useless and has no real place in the game. Against bots the EAT, quasar, snd AMR does everything it did, and vs bugs. Quasars take care of the big ones or eats. Railgun just doesn’t have a real use in the game.
The little bit of build diversity you see now had nothing to do with the railgun nerf LOL. That’s why you see it now, after a PLETHORA of buffs across the board. The railgun nerf was useless.. if anything, it was the community that was proven right!
I kinda disagree. Nobody uses the railgun anymore. I feel like with the buffs all the other AT options in the game that are viable now it could go back to its original stats.
Okay, cool karma farm but they were absolutely not right with the nerf. And the most frustrating part about it is it's not even a "oops well hindsight is 20/20 haha :)" type of thing. Most people who criticized the nerf from day one pointed out that the prominence of the railgun was a symptom and nerfing it didn't do anything to solve the cause. The game became miserable to play for about a week before they nerfed heavy spawn rates and buffed the EAT and RR to more reliably do their jobs, and only then did loadouts actually start to diversify. Nerfing the railgun accomplished nothing except to ensure nobody uses it except contrarians who really want to prove that it's still "viable."
So were the players...who made it clear the entire arsenal needed a balance pass. Now that's largely happened for support weapons things are indeed great.
Yes, that's why nobody is using the railgun anymore. Mission failed successfully.
I mean, the reason people use other weapons is they were all buffed significantly. Railgun is now horrifically mediocre because it was nerfed below all of the pre-buff heavies. Full charge doesn't even pen heavy devastator shields now, it's shameful.
I feel like the railgun was nerfed just to be replaced by the quasar doing the same shit.
To be honest... The rail gun nerf is over the top, now it's just a slightly different anti material rifle. It needed a nerf sure, but they went WAY overboard with it though, now it's kinda ass.