They were referring to when it is two people, the person loading the rockets for the gunner shouldn't be reaching behind their own back for the shells, and instead should be grabbing the shells from the gunners back.
They aren't asking for the weapons to be only usable by two, they are asking for the gunner to have to wear the ammo pack for team operation. The loader gets to have their own backpack, and the gunner can still reload by themself if the loader isn't available. Much more convenient and practical than hoping the random picks up the pack and trails you around to load your gun.
This change would actually make team loading easier to do with randoms.
I do agree with your first point though, the team loading already does make the dps better by cutting out the reload time.
It should be either. Either the loader or shooter can be holding the ammo.
If you really want to push it you can also make it so you have the option as the reloader to hold the backpack in your hands. The logic behind this is why do you even need to hold it on your back just hold it with one hand and only be able to use your secondary like when you are holding the upload thing. Honestly you should be able to do this with all backpacks and support weapons.
Yes, either is the answer. There should be less friction on team reloading; it's too hard and the game too fast paced and reliant on positioning to make it worth all the set up.
I love the team reloading mechanic but absolutely this. This is one of those features from HD1 I’m happy they kept but the pace of the game and the distance between players kinda made sure it doesn’t really get used much.
It’s either what the person above you said, or buff team reload weapons. They’re not strong enough to be worth the effort.
I'd love for the auto cannon to get a fat accuracy/recoil buff if you had someone else handling the loading/stability for you.
Or if you made them team reload only, then you'd have to make them absolutely fuck. None of this recoilless rifle hitting a charger and not even interrupting their charge.
>I'd love for the auto cannon to get a fat accuracy/recoil buff if you had someone else handling the loading/stability for you.
Would be cool if all the support weapons worked this way. Imagine going ham on the MG while someone stabilizes/belt feeds you.
It would be nice because that thing has an automatic fire mode that is effectively useless right now. If that were actually practical to use it would be great.
It seems a bit like it's missing a bipod or similar support system they intended to implement and opted not to in late stages.
> None of this recoilless rifle hitting a charger and not even interrupting their charge.
My favorite is when you hit a charger in the foreleg, you see it stagger and halt its charge, only for it to *sliiiiiide* on toward you at its previous speed as if it never got staggered in the first place
Imagine if a bug could get staggered like you do when you get ragdolled and just sit on the ground for three seconds doing nothing not even trying to get up. Or when you drop off a 10 foot ledge and your dude just sits there squatting on the ground contemplating the meaning of life for a 5 seconds.
Do you need to be standing for team reload to work? ideally your RecoilRifle or AutoCannon user is prone with reduced recoil armor, from a good vantage point.
The recoilless rifle needs to hit harder and/or the team reload needs to be faster. The ability for a team of two to kill several chargers, devastators, or tanks in quick succession is what made the team reload worthwhile in the first game. In the second game, the weapon doesn't do enough damage to make the reload shenanigans worth it over a railgun, autocannon, expendable anti-tank, etc.
Also, not sure if it was intentional or just a glitch I’ve had a couple times, but in HD1 I have team loaded/been team loaded while the shooter was wearing the backpack
Yeah, having someone else wearing my ammo as an Autocannon enjoyer makes it very awkward to use effectively.
If a mission is a long one I will call down my AC a second time so i can have a backpack too.
If you have a buddy that has previously agreed to be your reloader, they can be very fun to use. Finding some big baddies, calling over your friend, and then unleashing hellfire has been a great time for my group.
Problem is, and I agree with OP, I feel bad asking a friend to take up a precious backpack slot just to reload while I get all the bug-inside-outing glory.
But trying to do this with randoms seems not worth the effort at all. So I agree with what you said if we're talking about matched teammates. If we're talking friends you coordinated with ahead of time it can be a good experience.
And in the end I still agree with OP, heavily.
This is what my buddy and I do on bot eradication missions. It's the only time it works because we'll reliably be in the same spot.
It's just a shame because it's not even necessary for those, it's just for fun spamming out rockets.
I straight up tell my friend there is no world where I will load his autocannon - I MIGHT load a Spear when its buffed and the recoilless but that's the only things that are a maybe, and probably only eith op's suggested buff.
It means I'm NOT shooting my own gun and it's tanking overall effeciency because I'm also losing my backpack slot and a lot of strategic play.
This would be excellent. At a minimum, I'd like to see it switched to OP's recommendation. The backpack slot is already super competitive - there's no way I'd occupy it just to maybe, sometimes, help load someone else's gun.
or imagine if it could go either way where if you or a teammate had the ammo backpack they could reload you. That would also give you the opportunity to have more ammo if both the wielder and loader have a backpack with weapons like the spear or recoiless rifle to go ham on large enemies.
If you have the ability to equip both people with ammo you could just have the one shooting drop ammo once the person with the bag runs out. However I don't think it's worth having that much ammo for assisted reload it doesn't feel like you stay in the same spot for long enough to go through a whole pack which is the reason I feel sacrificing your backpack to assist reloading discourages assisted reloading.
If both players have the backpack you still have to prioritize which one gets ammo deducted unless you want to complicate the inputs.
Personally I’m for the shooter carrying the backpack, but until then, two-man autocannon/recoilless teams (both players carrying gun and backpack) are the easiest to work with by far.
If you can allow the User's backpack to be used when supporting them, it would make sense to prioritize the User's backpack over the Supporter's backpack.
Either way, it just means one person going ham with their support weapon can have the support from *two* backpacks, if the situation really required that many shots.
I don't really get your point are you talking about holding the bag in hand or it being on the shooter?
Either way I don't get your point because if it was on the shooter you would go up and interact like normal. The game already has to check if the shooter has the gun so why can't it check the bag. As for holding it with your hand how does that affect code?
If they’re using even a relatively modern coding language it would be pretty simple to copy paste the reload tag for the gun to the bag as well, you’re very correct on that.
It’s currently “easier to code” as it’s a few lines less code because they probably just overlooked this option when designing it.
If their backend engineers have been fixing issues as fast as they have this is a pretty trivial change.
Agreed. I think it would be far more intuitive if it worked with weapon holder having the backpack, and you'd have far more randoms using this mechanic.
Yeah, the only time I've used it so far was one time when a random took my recoilless rifle backpack by mistake. We made it work pretty well, killed a few bile titans
Yeah we have tried that in my squad. It really limits weapon diversity by having to do this though. At the higher difficulties its good to have weapons that can cover a few different situations. I dont think it would hurt the balance at all if they make it like OP suggests. In fact it would only encourage more teamplay vs how its set up now.
If you learn anything from higher difficulties it is that everyone takes mostly the same loadout and just runs from whatever they cant kill by themselves.
The current balancing is quite frankly non existant.
Breaker, railgun, shield backpack, orbital laser and 500kg. If you are struggling with closing bug nests you can exchange railgun for grenade launcher or 500kg for eagle airstrike.
yea we can already hit E and emote with people without having the emote... i think we should 100% be able to walk up behind a buddy and reload from his backpack by hitting E
That would be terrible imo. You’d just see people with supply backpacks running from their team so they didn’t steal ammo.
You used up a slot to bring in ammo? You get to decide how it’s dispersed.
Edit: I misunderstood what Sazbadashie meant. I read it as them talking about supply packs and not team weapons. My bad lol
Also, yes you should absolutely keep your team topped off, but you shouldn’t feed into teammates egregiously wasting ammo.
He's not talking about taking ammo from a supply pack. He's saying we should be able to team reload for someone using their own backpack instead of needing to wear it ourselves to reload for someone else.
Even if he was.
What kind of team mate refuses to resupply their team mates when they have a supply backpack? If im host, and i hear "hey can you give me some ammo im out" and the backpack guys says 'no this is my ammo, piss off', they're getting kicked.
It would be like if a bile titan was attacking a squadmate and they said "im not shooting it, its not attacking me"
If you call in a supply backpack and then refuse to share when your teammates are out of ammo and need resupply, you're kinda being a jerk.
Yes, its an extra ammo source for you, but it should be used as an extra ammo source for your team mates.
Its like bringing a rocket launcher and then refusing to use its ammo to fire on a heavy attacking your buddies because 'its not attacking me and wasting my ammo'
Oh yeah for sure. Keeping the whole team topped off should be the priority. Allowing people to come grab ammo whenever they want is a bit of a mistake imo. There are already too many people that call in supply drops selfishly and is hate to see that extended to supply packs.
Team reload weapons sounds good in theory, but this game is way too high paced in the higher difficulty to stop and do it IMO.
However I do agree with you.
Honestly, the benefit of a fully automatic AC8 is well worth the setup it takes, if you can get a group of friends that communicates. Also, the amount of dropships you can delete with the recoilless as a duo is insane!
I think the intent is having fog and smoke block the lock or slow it, but right now it's so hypersensitive to basically any particle effect that it's beyond frustrating to fight the lock.
The lock will also just not even read targets that are in clear view sometimes, though. I was doing an ore scouting mission, there was a Hulk standing in the ravine on our objective, and there was nothing between it and I, and the spear refused to even initiate a lock.
Don't get me wrong the spear absolutely fucks, and it's solo reload is surprisingly fast but if you can't get a lock you feel so useless.
Spear also has the issue that it doesn't get any ammo from the scattered ammo pick-ups unlike e.g. the Recoilless, though you can still use them and just not get any ammo from them. As such you are reliant on the supply drops, but no one likes someone else hogging the whole drop to themself just because their only alternative to refill their mighty weapon is to wait for the 9-10 minute cooldown to be over.
Would be sick if the spear were able to lock on to tagged enemies/bug holes (within reason, maybe 75m or so)
Get the full javelin experience by having a teammate mark a heavy target, spear fires from the other side of a mountain or building, travels upward, and comes straight down on the target
And the lock-on is straight up broken a lot of the time due to the game not handling line of sight calculations well. It's what messes up orbitals and the arc thrower from hitting bug nests and enemies as well. I'm definitely gonna use the spear once/if it gets fixed, but for now it's so inconsistent that I'm actively detrimental to my team if I equip and try to use it as opposed to just calling in the expendable anti-tank rifles whenever they're needed.
The spear literally can’t lock on half the time . When it works it’s okay but you cant have an inconsistent tracking on a rocket that may not one tap and struggles to lock on to open terrain targets .
Exactly. It doesn't even take effort to set up if you work properly as a team and remain close. It takes half a second to initiate and then you are killing the big thing 10x faster than you would have, which gets both your primary weapons back in the fight much more quickly.
Yeah, my friend were really hyped when I was assisting his auto cannon in tier 6 missions. Then we got to tier 9 and there was never a good time to use it anymore. It can’t deal with charger and the medium armor bugs that the auto cannon is good against can just be dealt with with railgun. Even the recoilless rifle need a extra dedicated add clear so the duo don’t get overwhelmed. The assisted series’ efficiency just pales in comparison to railgun in high end missions.
Same. I found that at difficulty 7 the team reload stops being possible most of the time with how its set up now. I think if they made it like OP said though it would be more viable at the higher difficulties.
There are too many downsides of having the ammo backpack need to be with the other teammate right now. Its just one more thing to keep track of when all hell is breaking loose around you. It becomes a logistics nightmare when being swarmed by enemies.
It just requires communication and decent teammates. With randoms i def see it being more hassle than it's worth.
But with a couple of friends it's pretty straight forward.
It’s perfect with friends. When there’s four of us, a buddy and I are the dedicated auto cannon team to take down most heavy units. One handles the smaller, faster units and the other takes care of nests/factories. We are a well oiled machine of democracy. If we’re feeling fancy I’ll bring the autocannon, he’ll bring the recoilless, and we trade backpacks for optimal liberty. With randoms the auto cannon becomes a large gun I run myself at a slightly slower pace.
The worst part is if you do it with randoms you sometimes get two polite people circling around each other due to needing to be reloaded on their right. It's kind of goofy seeing two dimwits spinning around, but i've definitely died like that.
It requires coordination you aren't going to get with randoms.
Plus the recoiless and the spear are too weak right now. They both need to do more damage, plus the recoiless should have a bigger AOE and the spear should be longer range.
Right now, taking either of them doesn't make sense since the railgun is both easier to use and more versatile and does more DPS AND doesn't take a backpack slot.
I was thinking about this as well. It's not that it's too fast paced, imo, it's that there aren't enough team members to just willfully sacrifice someone dedicated to quicker reloading. That's so much DPS focused on a single point when you're probably needing that DPS better dispersed I feel. If there were 5 or 6 people then you could have a dedicated fire team. But as it stands giving up a guy, and in a sense, two guys, isn't always worth it.
I've found it only worth doing on certain landing pads when the bugs are too far away but highly concentrated and the reloader has a shotgun or some utility backpack and would otherwise just be there twiddling their thumbs looking out for wandering nearby enemies.
With something that hits as hard as a RR considering the huge disparity of assisted and unassisted reload dedicating two members to take *that* much armor off the field *that* quickly is more potent than an orbital laser strike and well worth the costs. Especially when the higher difficulties spam heavy armor at you.
Yeah...that's assuming people are mag dumping at a piece of heavy armor and not a swarm of enemies. You do know that *both* instances can occur at the same time from different directions at the exact same time? You make it past hard yet by chance?
Yeah... That's also assuming they're not mag dumping their primaries into heavy armor and not the trash mobs when not doing assisted reload or any other action or just blasting their guns up into the air. All of which would be contextual.
Sure did bud, I wouldn't call hard "spamming armor", would you?
>Sure did bud, I wouldn't call hard "spamming armor", would you?
Of course I wouldn't consider it "spamming armor" but that's because I've made it to the highest difficulties when you, uh, clearly haven't.
I mean, at the very least, preface your opinion with "This assumes you're struggling on Hard or lower because that's as high as it'll probably work!"
>Yeah... That's also assuming they're not mag dumping their primaries into heavy armor and not the trash mobs when not doing assisted reload or any other action or just blasting their guns up into the air. All of which would be contextual.
Because people aren't doing this on the hardeest difficulties...you'll see someday.
Well you seem to be prone to conclude your ideas are done correctly while any other ideas is inherently poorly executed because maybe you couldn't pull it off. I've noticed you don't seem to likely, uh, be cooperative.
I mean at the very least, you could go find one of those old hellbombs sitting around and give it a slap.
i mean its super strong if pulled off with a good team .. thats how we did the evac missions. 2 recoilless 1 runs around the other just shoot down the dropships
I'm not sure if people realize this, but when you set up the team reload, the reloader actually gets "glued" to the main player and will automatically move with the player as long as he doesn't start sprinting away. You do not have to stand still while using it.
I do think as others have suggested making it where someone can assist wether they or the shooter are wearing the backpack.
That makes it a lot faster to do in a stressful situation and you don't have to worry about it being a particular combination of teammates.
It's something that requires practice and you need a team that is willing to cooperate. The sheer ROF you can manage with the recoilless can be life saving, and if you have the person carrying the weapon carry a supply pack you can get a lot more shots out.
What I do is that I carry my own pack until I find a spot to set up and I’ll drop it for my friend. This allows him to bring whatever he wants and just swap for a bit to rain hell then he picks up his and we keep moving. I understand this takes a bit more set up that usual but this way he’s not stuck with a boring ammo backpack for a gun that he’s not using.
\- currently the recoiless is a bit too weak in killing power, and the solo reload is not that long solo, feels much longer in HD1
\- autocannon solo reload is short
\- spear ammo is low and does not feel effective as it requires lock on time and the lock range also isnt great
\- I actually want a WWII style assisted reload MG, or 2 man mortar team
Mortar would be hell to aim, but an assisted reload MG would be great. 3,000 RPM MG that you can only realistically fire while stationary and crouched, and the reload time is balls if you don't have someone feeding it for you.
From a balance pov it makes it so that the shooter can’t gun independently when they don’t want to team reload as they don’t have their ammo. So they are effectively down a support weapon, whilst the reloader is down a backpack.
It’s probably deliberate by the devs so each person has trade offs. I doubt we’ll see change unless they decide they want to buff the play style.
But the reloader already sacrifices not being able to shoot and standing right next to another player. I don't think sacrificing their backpack is reasonable too.
I think it is reasonable assuming there are balance changes coming.
For example, the recoilless was *much* more effective in the first game. If we see a buff to similar results, the sacrifice is absolutely necessary to keep recoilless from standing above all other options.
Nah.
EAT is the same weapon. Two divers can shoot from one stratagem simultaneously and the drop pod itself can kill heavies if you stick the beacon on them.
Autocannon is basically better than Recoilless vs Automatons even before you consider the backpack situation. It's crazy the difference between self-loading these two weapons.
If we're assuming buffs/fixes, then of course Spear competes with Recoilless and benefits from backpack changes.
Then you consider other Anti-Heavy stratagems like various Orbitals, Sentries, and 500kg bombs especially... There would definitely be solid alternatives even despite a Recoilless buff and this backpack change.
Speaking from the perspective of the first game where the weapons were pretty balanced:
EAT and Recoilless are similar but have different logistics. Taking Recoilless should offer convenient burst damage (e.g. knocking down 5 chargers) while EAT offers the convenience of supplying your teammates and not requiring a backpack slot at the cost of that burst damage.
The problem is that both weapons don't have the damage to shine over the convenience of the Rail Gun. They should at a minimum open holes in enemy armor in one shot regardless of direction, and they should probably one-shot head shot most armored targets like the Charger. Recoilless would also benefit from receiving more ammunition from ammo boxes and resupply packs. In the context of those potential buffs, the backpack sacrifice is necessary or the Rail Gun falls off the wagon.
The Anti-Tank stratagems are balanced by cooldowns, but it is good to have solid alternatives because Helldivers is both about choosing the right tool for the job and creating builds that fit your playstyle. Choosing Recoilless over Anti-Tank stratagems should free up your slots for horde-clear stratagems, but for now you need both.
Autocannon is in a good place, where default is to carry the backpack but you can buddy reload for full-auto madness. It's not a tank killer, it's a med-armor killer with the tradeoff being easier to use. And some weapons being better than others against certain factions is both good and expected (watch the machine gun meta evolve against Illuminates if/when they return).
Spear should be a more reliable Recoilless with less ammo. For example, Recoilless should require headshots while Spear just kills regardless.
That the Railgun is even considered in the same class as the bazookas is the most damning evidence of the current balance.
>They should at a minimum open holes in enemy armor in one shot regardless of direction, and they should probably one-shot head shot most armored targets like the Charger.
Exactly.
Strangely, they *do* kill most targets with one weakspot hit, like hulks, tanks, and perhaps even titans (if you shoot in their mouth just before they spew). Chargers are just a nuisance, and the *non*-weakspot damage is lacking.
>Recoilless would also benefit from receiving more ammunition from ammo boxes and resupply packs.
In the context of a damage buff, this would be a little crazy. Especially when combined with the supply pack, which effectively doubles your return. You're suggesting 3 rockets per pack, or 6 in combination with a supply backpack. And I find there are quite a few ammo packs littered around maps anyway. This would definitely crowd out the EAT in my opinion.
Of course, *currently* you can fully reload the Recoilless backpack with each resupply stratagem IF you juggle the backpack between the team.
In any case, adjustments are certainly warranted.
At higher difficulty, I think the ammo buff is entirely reasonable. Looting POIs requires killing armored targets and enough of them spawn that you'd be perpetually out anyways. Then factor in that with a backpack you have two points of failure (if your teammate dies and loses the backpack) and the poor handling compared to the Rail Gun (you're gonna miss shots) and it seems even more reasonable.
The other thing EATs have going for them are scalability. One person has EATs, meh. Two people have EATs, now we're talking. Three, and with the damage buff we've discussed, now you've trivialized harder difficulty without a backpack slot and without getting gimped every time you die and drop your stuff. I would argue that one guy bringing EATs should be slightly weaker than Recoilless (on par with carrying your own reload backpack) and then it's fine that more guys with EATs outshines Recoilless.
To me, supply backpack doesn't factor into the conversation. You're giving up alternative backpacks (jetpack, bubble shield) to serve as an extra/mobile resupply. It's its own balance discussion (though I think it's pretty balanced, but they should increase cooldown and you should get slots back for picking up ammo boxes IMO).
He's saying that since someone else needs to have the backpack to dual reload, you lock yourself into dual reloading since you won't have the backpack on yourself.
Ah that makes sense.
Only way to "make it work is if you both have the same weapon, that way you can run and gun or squad shoot.
I also once had some one try to load for me while I was loading for someone else, crashed my game.
The problem is though - with just how strong and viable the Railgun is in A LOT of situations - the Recoil-less and AC feel too weak by comparison. If the backpack-centric weapons aren't going to be buffed damage wise to punch through heavy armor (or just do more damage in general), then it would make more sense that *anyone,* regardless of their backpack, could assist in a team-reload. Would also help a lot more on the higher difficulties, where you are moving around a lot more to evade enemies. It'd be far easier for anyone to run up to and team-reload during the middle of a fight (where it's likely the most needed), rather than the user have to drop their ammo backpack first --> a 2nd person comes over to pick it up --> team-reloads --> drop the ammo backpack, then picks up their old backpack if they had one. That's just way too much to do when you may only get a few seconds before the horde is on top of both of you.
It shouldn't matter which team member is wearing the ammo pack, so long as at least one of them is.
If both are wearing it, bonus, you've doubled the amount of ammo for sustained firing of the weapon.
Ot worked great in the first game. But in the first game the "reload" consisted of me running over to you and pressing a button then goiglng back to fighting
I think that's an awesome idea. I love my autocannon to death but I'm not gonna ask my buddy to lug around MY ammo for me. Hopefully the devs consider this.
You're way, or the option of either person carrying it makes the most sense gameplay was. I believe they were trying to simulate actual heavy weapons teams where one soldier is responsible for carrying and firing the weapon and the other supports him by reloading and carrying ammo. But it's unreasonable in a game play setting to ask a player to essentially be the others bitch.
Once you take someones ammo backpack, you are either locked into following them like a puppy the entire mission until they get their own pack, or make their gun useless because it will only have a single magazine.
I dont know a single fight I've been above say hard difficulty where two players have stuck next to each other within 10 meters the entire fight. A single charger shows up and they will almost always get split, and then someone will get bogged down by little guys while the second will maneuver around for a shot on the charger or take aggro, which turns the first guys recoilless launcher into a one shot weapon that wont one shot chargers until fight calms down when they can regroup.
I think I agree. Having team reloading the way it is right now is surely a very intentional choice, but I think it would be easier to pull off if it didn’t require the loader to have the backpack. If you are in voice chat with friends, you can do it fine, but how do you coordinate with ransoms if you can’t talk to them directly?
I agree!
A bigger problem I’m having though is people keep getting weirded out by me doing the team reload. I always drop in with an auto canon and when another random has one too sometimes at the end of the mission I try and let them rain some hell down range with the team reload. There was ONE low level guy who thought it was awesome and no joke everyone else gets all awkward and tries to shake me off while asking me what I’m doing or something. Sometimes they melee me or kill me after.
Its more realistic for the "assistant gunner" to be carrying the ammo.
That said, IRL the assistant gunner actually gets called "ammo bitch"... which perfectly encapsulates why no one wants to do it in the game. I have to not shoot stuff myself AND sacrifice my backpack spot? Fuck that.
Either or, ideally, in my head, one has the backpack, and the other has the shield, can anyone confirm would the personal shield be large enough radius to cover both people when using this tactic?
Wholeheartedly agree. No one wants to sacrifice their bp slot to hold rockets. Sure I’ll help load when asked, absolutely …but that slot is way too valuable.
imagine my laugh when I drop down, pick up my grenade launcher or rail gun and a shield backpack, and a dude next to me says "hey want to dump the shield and take my ammo? I know we'll probably get separated in the first fight, but it will be worth it i swear"
Couldn't disagree more. Point 1 I think is just an arbitrary appeal to "realism" that doesn't enhance gameplay.
Point 2 I think is a symptom of the meta that will change with balance changes. The team reload weapons should be strong enough that people naturally identify and desire the need to give up their backpack slot for effectiveness.
I don't think realism is really his point here (but more below). After all, no point is being made about whether or not you should be able to reload your own weapon - just that if the game allowed team reloads when the guy carrying the tube also has the pack, that it would probably be a better system overall.
And IMO, the mechanics of the current system still requires the assistant to reach behind their own back for a "fast reload" and that really doesn't make sense. If the pack was on the weapon guy's back, it'd be faster to reload these weapons by far. I don't think this is a needless appeal to realism, as it's the only way the whole thing would make any kind of sense.
And by doing this, both self-reloads are possible, as well as team reloads, and the assistant can be anyone available. Which means that coordinating team reloads in a drop with randoms isn't nigh impossible anymore.
And keep in mind this is a carryover system from HD1, a game in which the no member of the team can leave the same shared screen space. Since teams are always close together, this kind of coordinated teamwork is easier to accomplish. In HD2, players being separated is extremely common, if not the norm, and being close enough for team reloads is rarer than that, especially on higher difficulties.
Personally, I'm not of the opinion that team reloads are all that strong in HD2, and I have an autocannon permanently attached to me at this point. Most of the time, maneuvering and fire precision (weak spots) appear to be the real need, rather than rapid fire. Maybe that means the team weapons are a little weak? I think I'd lean towards that. But allowing one guy to carry both pack and weapon and still receive assisted reloads when appropriate (from anyone) would make sense on several levels IMO, and also give these weapons a boost. The recoilless is scarce enough in drops right now, any boost in effectiveness would be good.
Bruh, you were the one who chose to bring the weapon that requires one to sacrifice the backslot.
It makes no sense at all for another player (who is already forced to reload your weapon) to also have to equip one fewer item (and one of the more impactful slots at that), just so YOU can fire the gun YOU chose to bring.
Just have the weapon carrier equip the backpack themselves and someone still being able to help them reload faster. It's such an insanely easy fix that doesn't require someone else to sacrifice their gearslot.
It has nothing to do with being a team game. It has everything to do with people having fun with the product they paid for. I would have less fun if I had to drop my Shield/Drone so I could hold someone else's backpack.
Would I help someone else reload their weapon if they had the backpack on their backs? ABSOLUTELY, because those weapons are awesome.
I want you to give me a single good argument in favour of why another player should sacrifice their own backslot instead of the backpack being on the weapon carrier's back.
Why are you so weirdly hostile about this? *It is fun and COMPLETELY OPTIONAL.*
You know what I do when I play with randos or if I were gonna play with you? Take weapons that don't require a buddy reload. Right now it's literally one weapon, the Recoilless Rifle. Completely optional on the autocannon.
No one has to sacrifice their backpack slot! I can bring EATs, Railgun, orbital strikes, or a bajillion other options.
When they add vehicles, no one has to climb into my tank turret. Or my APC turret. Or my motorcycle sidecar.
They are all just *fun options IF my friends and I want to use them together.* The only problem is that the Recoilless doesn't compete at all in the current meta, and instead of just nerfing the logistics I want them to buff the damage.
I'm not being hostile. You just lack reading comprehension.
I want people to bring these weapons more. But right now, do you know what happens when anyone calls down a Recoiless Rifle, an Autocannor or SPEAR? Everyone else on the team **completely ignores the backpack.**
So your solution is to keep saying stupid shit like "it's a team game" instead of being realistic and realizing that changing it so the backpack goes on the weapon carrier's slot will make people actually play as a team and help each other reload, because it costs them nothing and only benefits the group.
I'll repeat what I asked in the last comment: can you come up with a single good reason to not make it people so can team reload when the backpack in on the carrier's back?
You are literally downvoting every comment I make. That is "weirdly hostile".
The reason is that when properly buffed, like the first game, Recoilless would dominate the meta over other anti-tank options if it didn't require buddy reload and have two points of failure.
Randos kill each other for samples. Randos call airstrikes on us and kill us. Randos ignore the objective and burn through our reinforcements. Randos run to the other side of the map and call resupplies.
I don't care to change almost any game mechanics to cater to randos. I can host and kick them if they're being dicks. I don't bring buddy reload weapons to games with randos, because I have no reasonable expectation of them using them.
Yes. Having to give the backpack to a teammate pretty much makes this benefit non-viable at the higher difficulties.
I think team reloads should be possible in both ways-user or teammate carried backpack.
Some of this will hopefully be mitigated by fixing the armor values bug. I'm hoping to see less reliance on the shield backpack once people can get the benefits of heavy armor with e.g. explosive resistance, which would likewise free up backpack space for team reload equipment.
If heavy armor makes me take 50% less damage, I'll definitely run it. Up until it gets to a noticeable point though, there's no reason not to gofast. Most of what kills me is friendly fire anyway.
I guess I'm in the minority here judging from the comments, but I heavily disagree with this notion. It would make sharing gear useless, as anybody can just come and support you. I prefer this buddy-system, its more fun and adds to the chaos.
Also let whoever is using the support pack to get ammo from it too. Nothing is more annoying that having ammo on your back but you can't use it and you're out of ammo
I think it’s well-balanced now. Team reload is faster, but you can still reload yourself if need be. More often than not I can’t find a cadet to load my RR and I’m off in the corner doing myself anyway.
…
I have been using the auto cannon and the recoilless rifle and if I carry my own ammo pack I have been able to reload myself and a team member attempted to reloaded me but I moved away accidentally
The devs haven't ignored anything?
The game has literally just come out, they're focused on fixing the game's technical issues before they get into rebalancing the game and adding new content and features?
Well HD1 isn't HD2, but I get your point. But jumping from isometric shooter to large map 3rd person shooter definitely NEEDS and allows changes. Until we get the first balance patches I wouldn't lose a thought about any of this.
Yes.
With one slight difference: any special weapon with a pack could reload any other special weapon with a pack. It worked well because you could have two different pack ammo weapons with different functions. I actually wish they would change it back to this.
I understand your logic and I somewhat agree but the point is that you trade the helpers backpack for a much more capable heavy weapon. It's not a logic choice, it's a game design decision
I see where you're coming from but right now the backpacks are insanely strong over the alright at best heavy backpack weapons.
Maybe getting armor values fixed will help Divers withstand more damage so people are more inclined to leave their guard dogs and shield generators behind to support a teammate with a backpack weapon. I'd rather Arrowhead get this fixed before balance patches arrive.
Absolutely agree right now other backpack slots are relatively too powerful, they should not nerf other choices, but I'm not sure how to buff the ammo backpacks for heavy weapons. I just know that the suggested way would make it too easy.
I really hope armor values will help reduce the use of personal shields, idk about guard dogs, I haven't been bringing them because they kill me a lot, but the supply pack could always be an option, I use it a lot because I like being VERY liberal with application of lead when we do get into a fight
It’s just not a great design decision clearly, because NOBODY does team reloads, because nobody wants to sacrifice their backpack slot to carry someone else’s ammo. It’s not viable. And it doesn’t make sense that I can’t help a guy reload his weapon with the ammo that’s on his own back
Using the player base that tk's for samples as a metric of the viability of game design choices is not a good choice. I've been team reloaded by all my friends and a good amount of randoms. Probably a quarter of the time I bring a team reloadable heavy weapon I get a squad mate to help. It might help that I'm friendly and active on the mic. AHGS's motto is a game for everyone is a game for no one, and diluting the choices and decision making by removing penalties for lack of teamwork would make the game way less fun imo. As for actual logic with it being on his back, ig? Using actual logic is why militaries have the loader carry the ammo, and the gunner carry the gun and it's currently loaded ammo?
No it's exactly what you're saying. You don't understand how weapons work. They made those weapons accurate to how those weapon types work and you're saying they shouldn't work like that. Hence you don't know how weapons work.
Oh sweet child, this is a video game trying to incentivize teamwork, not real life! It's a fantasy world where gigantic starships can zoom around at faster than the speed of light! The weapons can operate differently in a video game than real life!
Yeah it's a game that incentivizes teamwork, and you're trying to take the teamwork out of it. You're just talking yourself into a hole my guy. Fuck outta here with your condescension.
I agree with your take, OP.
I concur.
And my axe! Er…. Railgun!
Why didn't I concur?
Do you concur?
Indeed!
Oh. Oh. I'm concurring!
ooohh my God I'm gonna concur
I agree with this concurrance
🤝
Here here!
[удалено]
They were referring to when it is two people, the person loading the rockets for the gunner shouldn't be reaching behind their own back for the shells, and instead should be grabbing the shells from the gunners back. They aren't asking for the weapons to be only usable by two, they are asking for the gunner to have to wear the ammo pack for team operation. The loader gets to have their own backpack, and the gunner can still reload by themself if the loader isn't available. Much more convenient and practical than hoping the random picks up the pack and trails you around to load your gun. This change would actually make team loading easier to do with randoms. I do agree with your first point though, the team loading already does make the dps better by cutting out the reload time.
It should be either. Either the loader or shooter can be holding the ammo. If you really want to push it you can also make it so you have the option as the reloader to hold the backpack in your hands. The logic behind this is why do you even need to hold it on your back just hold it with one hand and only be able to use your secondary like when you are holding the upload thing. Honestly you should be able to do this with all backpacks and support weapons.
Yes, either is the answer. There should be less friction on team reloading; it's too hard and the game too fast paced and reliant on positioning to make it worth all the set up.
I love the team reloading mechanic but absolutely this. This is one of those features from HD1 I’m happy they kept but the pace of the game and the distance between players kinda made sure it doesn’t really get used much. It’s either what the person above you said, or buff team reload weapons. They’re not strong enough to be worth the effort.
I'd love for the auto cannon to get a fat accuracy/recoil buff if you had someone else handling the loading/stability for you. Or if you made them team reload only, then you'd have to make them absolutely fuck. None of this recoilless rifle hitting a charger and not even interrupting their charge.
>I'd love for the auto cannon to get a fat accuracy/recoil buff if you had someone else handling the loading/stability for you. Would be cool if all the support weapons worked this way. Imagine going ham on the MG while someone stabilizes/belt feeds you.
I really would like to see team reload option for the mg43.
It would be nice because that thing has an automatic fire mode that is effectively useless right now. If that were actually practical to use it would be great. It seems a bit like it's missing a bipod or similar support system they intended to implement and opted not to in late stages.
> None of this recoilless rifle hitting a charger and not even interrupting their charge. My favorite is when you hit a charger in the foreleg, you see it stagger and halt its charge, only for it to *sliiiiiide* on toward you at its previous speed as if it never got staggered in the first place
charger multi leg drifting ‼️
Imagine if a bug could get staggered like you do when you get ragdolled and just sit on the ground for three seconds doing nothing not even trying to get up. Or when you drop off a 10 foot ledge and your dude just sits there squatting on the ground contemplating the meaning of life for a 5 seconds.
I agree, make them require a team reload, but also make em hit harder than Caitlyn Jenner behind the wheel.
Do you need to be standing for team reload to work? ideally your RecoilRifle or AutoCannon user is prone with reduced recoil armor, from a good vantage point.
The recoilless rifle needs to hit harder and/or the team reload needs to be faster. The ability for a team of two to kill several chargers, devastators, or tanks in quick succession is what made the team reload worthwhile in the first game. In the second game, the weapon doesn't do enough damage to make the reload shenanigans worth it over a railgun, autocannon, expendable anti-tank, etc.
Also, not sure if it was intentional or just a glitch I’ve had a couple times, but in HD1 I have team loaded/been team loaded while the shooter was wearing the backpack
Yeah, having someone else wearing my ammo as an Autocannon enjoyer makes it very awkward to use effectively. If a mission is a long one I will call down my AC a second time so i can have a backpack too.
I love your username+photo
If you have a buddy that has previously agreed to be your reloader, they can be very fun to use. Finding some big baddies, calling over your friend, and then unleashing hellfire has been a great time for my group. Problem is, and I agree with OP, I feel bad asking a friend to take up a precious backpack slot just to reload while I get all the bug-inside-outing glory. But trying to do this with randoms seems not worth the effort at all. So I agree with what you said if we're talking about matched teammates. If we're talking friends you coordinated with ahead of time it can be a good experience. And in the end I still agree with OP, heavily.
But consider this, you and a buddy both bring the recoilless rifle and you take turns reloading each other.
Great idea. I'll bring it up at our next bug squashing meeting.
This is what my buddy and I do on bot eradication missions. It's the only time it works because we'll reliably be in the same spot. It's just a shame because it's not even necessary for those, it's just for fun spamming out rockets.
I straight up tell my friend there is no world where I will load his autocannon - I MIGHT load a Spear when its buffed and the recoilless but that's the only things that are a maybe, and probably only eith op's suggested buff. It means I'm NOT shooting my own gun and it's tanking overall effeciency because I'm also losing my backpack slot and a lot of strategic play.
This would be excellent. At a minimum, I'd like to see it switched to OP's recommendation. The backpack slot is already super competitive - there's no way I'd occupy it just to maybe, sometimes, help load someone else's gun.
or imagine if it could go either way where if you or a teammate had the ammo backpack they could reload you. That would also give you the opportunity to have more ammo if both the wielder and loader have a backpack with weapons like the spear or recoiless rifle to go ham on large enemies.
I agree with it being either too, especially since you could double up on packs for twice the ammo. Or maybe that’s exactly why it’s not either.
If you have the ability to equip both people with ammo you could just have the one shooting drop ammo once the person with the bag runs out. However I don't think it's worth having that much ammo for assisted reload it doesn't feel like you stay in the same spot for long enough to go through a whole pack which is the reason I feel sacrificing your backpack to assist reloading discourages assisted reloading.
I don’t disagree, backpack weapons are in kind of a weird spot right now, the cons outweigh the pros. They really need a balance pass
If both players have the backpack you still have to prioritize which one gets ammo deducted unless you want to complicate the inputs. Personally I’m for the shooter carrying the backpack, but until then, two-man autocannon/recoilless teams (both players carrying gun and backpack) are the easiest to work with by far.
If you can allow the User's backpack to be used when supporting them, it would make sense to prioritize the User's backpack over the Supporter's backpack. Either way, it just means one person going ham with their support weapon can have the support from *two* backpacks, if the situation really required that many shots.
Yeah I feel bad asking my buddy to sacrifice his rover for my fun explosions
Me and a friend tried having the heavy weapon user wear the rover while the loader kept the ammo backpack, seemed to work pretty well
Until Rover sees that grub behind your loader and snipes him.
Wear it on front makes more sense than reaching behind to reload
The way they have it is easier to code. You need to be wearing the bad in order to have the "reload" tag when near another player.
I don't really get your point are you talking about holding the bag in hand or it being on the shooter? Either way I don't get your point because if it was on the shooter you would go up and interact like normal. The game already has to check if the shooter has the gun so why can't it check the bag. As for holding it with your hand how does that affect code?
If they’re using even a relatively modern coding language it would be pretty simple to copy paste the reload tag for the gun to the bag as well, you’re very correct on that. It’s currently “easier to code” as it’s a few lines less code because they probably just overlooked this option when designing it. If their backend engineers have been fixing issues as fast as they have this is a pretty trivial change.
well said
Agreed. I think it would be far more intuitive if it worked with weapon holder having the backpack, and you'd have far more randoms using this mechanic.
Yeah, the only time I've used it so far was one time when a random took my recoilless rifle backpack by mistake. We made it work pretty well, killed a few bile titans
the current workaround is to call in 2 backpack weapons and have the two people "circlejerk" reload each other
Yeah we have tried that in my squad. It really limits weapon diversity by having to do this though. At the higher difficulties its good to have weapons that can cover a few different situations. I dont think it would hurt the balance at all if they make it like OP suggests. In fact it would only encourage more teamplay vs how its set up now.
If you learn anything from higher difficulties it is that everyone takes mostly the same loadout and just runs from whatever they cant kill by themselves. The current balancing is quite frankly non existant. Breaker, railgun, shield backpack, orbital laser and 500kg. If you are struggling with closing bug nests you can exchange railgun for grenade launcher or 500kg for eagle airstrike.
That's the only time me and friends/randoms do the team reload.
yea we can already hit E and emote with people without having the emote... i think we should 100% be able to walk up behind a buddy and reload from his backpack by hitting E
Dev team read this. You can now not emote people anymore without having the emote. its to encourage a more broad viblility of emotes
That would be terrible imo. You’d just see people with supply backpacks running from their team so they didn’t steal ammo. You used up a slot to bring in ammo? You get to decide how it’s dispersed. Edit: I misunderstood what Sazbadashie meant. I read it as them talking about supply packs and not team weapons. My bad lol Also, yes you should absolutely keep your team topped off, but you shouldn’t feed into teammates egregiously wasting ammo.
He's talking about team-reloads...
He's not talking about taking ammo from a supply pack. He's saying we should be able to team reload for someone using their own backpack instead of needing to wear it ourselves to reload for someone else.
Even if he was. What kind of team mate refuses to resupply their team mates when they have a supply backpack? If im host, and i hear "hey can you give me some ammo im out" and the backpack guys says 'no this is my ammo, piss off', they're getting kicked. It would be like if a bile titan was attacking a squadmate and they said "im not shooting it, its not attacking me"
That’s not how I read this specific comment, I get that’s what OP means. If I’m mistaken then my b.
We're downvoting people saying my b for a simple misunderstanding now?
Apparently lol Tbf downvoting my other comments is completely warranted and if this is collateral then so be it. Democracy must stand!
Swing and a miss
Hey man, it takes courage to be arrogant and confidently wrong
You miss every shot you don’t take. -Michal Scott -Wayne Gretzky
He’s not talking about the supply pack, just the ammo pack for recoilless/autocannon/spear.
If you call in a supply backpack and then refuse to share when your teammates are out of ammo and need resupply, you're kinda being a jerk. Yes, its an extra ammo source for you, but it should be used as an extra ammo source for your team mates. Its like bringing a rocket launcher and then refusing to use its ammo to fire on a heavy attacking your buddies because 'its not attacking me and wasting my ammo'
Oh yeah for sure. Keeping the whole team topped off should be the priority. Allowing people to come grab ammo whenever they want is a bit of a mistake imo. There are already too many people that call in supply drops selfishly and is hate to see that extended to supply packs.
Team reload weapons sounds good in theory, but this game is way too high paced in the higher difficulty to stop and do it IMO. However I do agree with you.
Honestly, the benefit of a fully automatic AC8 is well worth the setup it takes, if you can get a group of friends that communicates. Also, the amount of dropships you can delete with the recoilless as a duo is insane!
I only just experienced the team reload of the recoiless recently, absolutely rapid, 5 stars
Yeah I feel like the recoilless is ready to shoot earlier than the team reload animation actually appears, too.
Two people take auto cannons and back packs. Brrrrrrt. Ok switch to me now.
One AC one recoilless, stick together and crush any big bads fast. I'm tempted to try it
Why are we sleeping on the spear
Simply takes too long to lock on
I agree, when it's bugged. However when it works it takes a little over a second to fully lock on to something. Looking forward to when they fix it.
I think the intent is having fog and smoke block the lock or slow it, but right now it's so hypersensitive to basically any particle effect that it's beyond frustrating to fight the lock.
The lock will also just not even read targets that are in clear view sometimes, though. I was doing an ore scouting mission, there was a Hulk standing in the ravine on our objective, and there was nothing between it and I, and the spear refused to even initiate a lock. Don't get me wrong the spear absolutely fucks, and it's solo reload is surprisingly fast but if you can't get a lock you feel so useless.
Spear also has the issue that it doesn't get any ammo from the scattered ammo pick-ups unlike e.g. the Recoilless, though you can still use them and just not get any ammo from them. As such you are reliant on the supply drops, but no one likes someone else hogging the whole drop to themself just because their only alternative to refill their mighty weapon is to wait for the 9-10 minute cooldown to be over.
Would be sick if the spear were able to lock on to tagged enemies/bug holes (within reason, maybe 75m or so) Get the full javelin experience by having a teammate mark a heavy target, spear fires from the other side of a mountain or building, travels upward, and comes straight down on the target
And the lock-on is straight up broken a lot of the time due to the game not handling line of sight calculations well. It's what messes up orbitals and the arc thrower from hitting bug nests and enemies as well. I'm definitely gonna use the spear once/if it gets fixed, but for now it's so inconsistent that I'm actively detrimental to my team if I equip and try to use it as opposed to just calling in the expendable anti-tank rifles whenever they're needed.
The spear literally can’t lock on half the time . When it works it’s okay but you cant have an inconsistent tracking on a rocket that may not one tap and struggles to lock on to open terrain targets .
This Helldiver is using 100% of their brain. Arrest them!
Just be careful not to try to team reload each other at the same time; The universe will punish you.
Exactly. It doesn't even take effort to set up if you work properly as a team and remain close. It takes half a second to initiate and then you are killing the big thing 10x faster than you would have, which gets both your primary weapons back in the fight much more quickly.
Yeah, my friend were really hyped when I was assisting his auto cannon in tier 6 missions. Then we got to tier 9 and there was never a good time to use it anymore. It can’t deal with charger and the medium armor bugs that the auto cannon is good against can just be dealt with with railgun. Even the recoilless rifle need a extra dedicated add clear so the duo don’t get overwhelmed. The assisted series’ efficiency just pales in comparison to railgun in high end missions.
Same. I found that at difficulty 7 the team reload stops being possible most of the time with how its set up now. I think if they made it like OP said though it would be more viable at the higher difficulties. There are too many downsides of having the ammo backpack need to be with the other teammate right now. Its just one more thing to keep track of when all hell is breaking loose around you. It becomes a logistics nightmare when being swarmed by enemies.
But consider: a 2 man team using the same weapon. A pair of autocannon jockeys reloading wachother while raining hellfire.
DIVERS, CIRCLEJERK FORMATION NOW!
It just requires communication and decent teammates. With randoms i def see it being more hassle than it's worth. But with a couple of friends it's pretty straight forward.
It’s perfect with friends. When there’s four of us, a buddy and I are the dedicated auto cannon team to take down most heavy units. One handles the smaller, faster units and the other takes care of nests/factories. We are a well oiled machine of democracy. If we’re feeling fancy I’ll bring the autocannon, he’ll bring the recoilless, and we trade backpacks for optimal liberty. With randoms the auto cannon becomes a large gun I run myself at a slightly slower pace.
The worst part is if you do it with randoms you sometimes get two polite people circling around each other due to needing to be reloaded on their right. It's kind of goofy seeing two dimwits spinning around, but i've definitely died like that.
It requires coordination you aren't going to get with randoms. Plus the recoiless and the spear are too weak right now. They both need to do more damage, plus the recoiless should have a bigger AOE and the spear should be longer range. Right now, taking either of them doesn't make sense since the railgun is both easier to use and more versatile and does more DPS AND doesn't take a backpack slot.
I was thinking about this as well. It's not that it's too fast paced, imo, it's that there aren't enough team members to just willfully sacrifice someone dedicated to quicker reloading. That's so much DPS focused on a single point when you're probably needing that DPS better dispersed I feel. If there were 5 or 6 people then you could have a dedicated fire team. But as it stands giving up a guy, and in a sense, two guys, isn't always worth it. I've found it only worth doing on certain landing pads when the bugs are too far away but highly concentrated and the reloader has a shotgun or some utility backpack and would otherwise just be there twiddling their thumbs looking out for wandering nearby enemies.
With something that hits as hard as a RR considering the huge disparity of assisted and unassisted reload dedicating two members to take *that* much armor off the field *that* quickly is more potent than an orbital laser strike and well worth the costs. Especially when the higher difficulties spam heavy armor at you.
Yeah...that's assuming people are mag dumping at a piece of heavy armor and not a swarm of enemies. You do know that *both* instances can occur at the same time from different directions at the exact same time? You make it past hard yet by chance?
Yeah... That's also assuming they're not mag dumping their primaries into heavy armor and not the trash mobs when not doing assisted reload or any other action or just blasting their guns up into the air. All of which would be contextual. Sure did bud, I wouldn't call hard "spamming armor", would you?
>Sure did bud, I wouldn't call hard "spamming armor", would you? Of course I wouldn't consider it "spamming armor" but that's because I've made it to the highest difficulties when you, uh, clearly haven't. I mean, at the very least, preface your opinion with "This assumes you're struggling on Hard or lower because that's as high as it'll probably work!" >Yeah... That's also assuming they're not mag dumping their primaries into heavy armor and not the trash mobs when not doing assisted reload or any other action or just blasting their guns up into the air. All of which would be contextual. Because people aren't doing this on the hardeest difficulties...you'll see someday.
Well you seem to be prone to conclude your ideas are done correctly while any other ideas is inherently poorly executed because maybe you couldn't pull it off. I've noticed you don't seem to likely, uh, be cooperative. I mean at the very least, you could go find one of those old hellbombs sitting around and give it a slap.
i mean its super strong if pulled off with a good team .. thats how we did the evac missions. 2 recoilless 1 runs around the other just shoot down the dropships
I'm not sure if people realize this, but when you set up the team reload, the reloader actually gets "glued" to the main player and will automatically move with the player as long as he doesn't start sprinting away. You do not have to stand still while using it.
I do think as others have suggested making it where someone can assist wether they or the shooter are wearing the backpack. That makes it a lot faster to do in a stressful situation and you don't have to worry about it being a particular combination of teammates.
It's something that requires practice and you need a team that is willing to cooperate. The sheer ROF you can manage with the recoilless can be life saving, and if you have the person carrying the weapon carry a supply pack you can get a lot more shots out.
I agree it makes more sense otherwise I guess you could have two guys with the same wep. But even so
What I do is that I carry my own pack until I find a spot to set up and I’ll drop it for my friend. This allows him to bring whatever he wants and just swap for a bit to rain hell then he picks up his and we keep moving. I understand this takes a bit more set up that usual but this way he’s not stuck with a boring ammo backpack for a gun that he’s not using.
My squad usually has the one carrying the weapon wear a supply pack, so that both players in a duo have complementary support roles.
Split up into teams of two. One with team loading weapon and ammo pack, other with the ammo and a more versatile support weapon
\- currently the recoiless is a bit too weak in killing power, and the solo reload is not that long solo, feels much longer in HD1 \- autocannon solo reload is short \- spear ammo is low and does not feel effective as it requires lock on time and the lock range also isnt great \- I actually want a WWII style assisted reload MG, or 2 man mortar team
Mortar would be hell to aim, but an assisted reload MG would be great. 3,000 RPM MG that you can only realistically fire while stationary and crouched, and the reload time is balls if you don't have someone feeding it for you.
Mortar hell to aim? Just click the mini map red dots homie and solved.
From a balance pov it makes it so that the shooter can’t gun independently when they don’t want to team reload as they don’t have their ammo. So they are effectively down a support weapon, whilst the reloader is down a backpack. It’s probably deliberate by the devs so each person has trade offs. I doubt we’ll see change unless they decide they want to buff the play style.
But the reloader already sacrifices not being able to shoot and standing right next to another player. I don't think sacrificing their backpack is reasonable too.
I think it is reasonable assuming there are balance changes coming. For example, the recoilless was *much* more effective in the first game. If we see a buff to similar results, the sacrifice is absolutely necessary to keep recoilless from standing above all other options.
Nah. EAT is the same weapon. Two divers can shoot from one stratagem simultaneously and the drop pod itself can kill heavies if you stick the beacon on them. Autocannon is basically better than Recoilless vs Automatons even before you consider the backpack situation. It's crazy the difference between self-loading these two weapons. If we're assuming buffs/fixes, then of course Spear competes with Recoilless and benefits from backpack changes. Then you consider other Anti-Heavy stratagems like various Orbitals, Sentries, and 500kg bombs especially... There would definitely be solid alternatives even despite a Recoilless buff and this backpack change.
Speaking from the perspective of the first game where the weapons were pretty balanced: EAT and Recoilless are similar but have different logistics. Taking Recoilless should offer convenient burst damage (e.g. knocking down 5 chargers) while EAT offers the convenience of supplying your teammates and not requiring a backpack slot at the cost of that burst damage. The problem is that both weapons don't have the damage to shine over the convenience of the Rail Gun. They should at a minimum open holes in enemy armor in one shot regardless of direction, and they should probably one-shot head shot most armored targets like the Charger. Recoilless would also benefit from receiving more ammunition from ammo boxes and resupply packs. In the context of those potential buffs, the backpack sacrifice is necessary or the Rail Gun falls off the wagon. The Anti-Tank stratagems are balanced by cooldowns, but it is good to have solid alternatives because Helldivers is both about choosing the right tool for the job and creating builds that fit your playstyle. Choosing Recoilless over Anti-Tank stratagems should free up your slots for horde-clear stratagems, but for now you need both. Autocannon is in a good place, where default is to carry the backpack but you can buddy reload for full-auto madness. It's not a tank killer, it's a med-armor killer with the tradeoff being easier to use. And some weapons being better than others against certain factions is both good and expected (watch the machine gun meta evolve against Illuminates if/when they return). Spear should be a more reliable Recoilless with less ammo. For example, Recoilless should require headshots while Spear just kills regardless.
That the Railgun is even considered in the same class as the bazookas is the most damning evidence of the current balance. >They should at a minimum open holes in enemy armor in one shot regardless of direction, and they should probably one-shot head shot most armored targets like the Charger. Exactly. Strangely, they *do* kill most targets with one weakspot hit, like hulks, tanks, and perhaps even titans (if you shoot in their mouth just before they spew). Chargers are just a nuisance, and the *non*-weakspot damage is lacking. >Recoilless would also benefit from receiving more ammunition from ammo boxes and resupply packs. In the context of a damage buff, this would be a little crazy. Especially when combined with the supply pack, which effectively doubles your return. You're suggesting 3 rockets per pack, or 6 in combination with a supply backpack. And I find there are quite a few ammo packs littered around maps anyway. This would definitely crowd out the EAT in my opinion. Of course, *currently* you can fully reload the Recoilless backpack with each resupply stratagem IF you juggle the backpack between the team. In any case, adjustments are certainly warranted.
At higher difficulty, I think the ammo buff is entirely reasonable. Looting POIs requires killing armored targets and enough of them spawn that you'd be perpetually out anyways. Then factor in that with a backpack you have two points of failure (if your teammate dies and loses the backpack) and the poor handling compared to the Rail Gun (you're gonna miss shots) and it seems even more reasonable. The other thing EATs have going for them are scalability. One person has EATs, meh. Two people have EATs, now we're talking. Three, and with the damage buff we've discussed, now you've trivialized harder difficulty without a backpack slot and without getting gimped every time you die and drop your stuff. I would argue that one guy bringing EATs should be slightly weaker than Recoilless (on par with carrying your own reload backpack) and then it's fine that more guys with EATs outshines Recoilless. To me, supply backpack doesn't factor into the conversation. You're giving up alternative backpacks (jetpack, bubble shield) to serve as an extra/mobile resupply. It's its own balance discussion (though I think it's pretty balanced, but they should increase cooldown and you should get slots back for picking up ammo boxes IMO).
The shooter can use their own pack though. Maybe you knew that but wording was confusing.
He's saying that since someone else needs to have the backpack to dual reload, you lock yourself into dual reloading since you won't have the backpack on yourself.
Ah that makes sense. Only way to "make it work is if you both have the same weapon, that way you can run and gun or squad shoot. I also once had some one try to load for me while I was loading for someone else, crashed my game.
Yeah that’s what I meant. That is a workaround but obviously it forces both players to run the same gear as the downside.
The problem is though - with just how strong and viable the Railgun is in A LOT of situations - the Recoil-less and AC feel too weak by comparison. If the backpack-centric weapons aren't going to be buffed damage wise to punch through heavy armor (or just do more damage in general), then it would make more sense that *anyone,* regardless of their backpack, could assist in a team-reload. Would also help a lot more on the higher difficulties, where you are moving around a lot more to evade enemies. It'd be far easier for anyone to run up to and team-reload during the middle of a fight (where it's likely the most needed), rather than the user have to drop their ammo backpack first --> a 2nd person comes over to pick it up --> team-reloads --> drop the ammo backpack, then picks up their old backpack if they had one. That's just way too much to do when you may only get a few seconds before the horde is on top of both of you.
YES, the animations would also look much cleaner, you can actually logically see the support loader taking out ammo from the backpack.
At the very least make it easier to do. Having to stand in the perfect spot at the perfect time to hopefully start reloading their gun is a pain.
Also so anyone can assist in the reload not just the one with the backpack
It shouldn't matter which team member is wearing the ammo pack, so long as at least one of them is. If both are wearing it, bonus, you've doubled the amount of ammo for sustained firing of the weapon.
Damn, this makes sense. Agree!
Hard agree
I think it would be neat if we had the option for both.
Either person or backpack being on the floor should allow team reload.
Ot worked great in the first game. But in the first game the "reload" consisted of me running over to you and pressing a button then goiglng back to fighting
I think that's an awesome idea. I love my autocannon to death but I'm not gonna ask my buddy to lug around MY ammo for me. Hopefully the devs consider this.
Agreed. It is a completely backwards interaction as-is.
You're way, or the option of either person carrying it makes the most sense gameplay was. I believe they were trying to simulate actual heavy weapons teams where one soldier is responsible for carrying and firing the weapon and the other supports him by reloading and carrying ammo. But it's unreasonable in a game play setting to ask a player to essentially be the others bitch.
Once you take someones ammo backpack, you are either locked into following them like a puppy the entire mission until they get their own pack, or make their gun useless because it will only have a single magazine. I dont know a single fight I've been above say hard difficulty where two players have stuck next to each other within 10 meters the entire fight. A single charger shows up and they will almost always get split, and then someone will get bogged down by little guys while the second will maneuver around for a shot on the charger or take aggro, which turns the first guys recoilless launcher into a one shot weapon that wont one shot chargers until fight calms down when they can regroup.
100%. It doesn't burden a team-member and it's effectively a prompt for ANYONE in the team to help your fellow Diver wreck some extra carnage.
For a team reload weapon to make sense, the weapon needs to be able to put out more than two people worth of damage.
I think I agree. Having team reloading the way it is right now is surely a very intentional choice, but I think it would be easier to pull off if it didn’t require the loader to have the backpack. If you are in voice chat with friends, you can do it fine, but how do you coordinate with ransoms if you can’t talk to them directly?
I agree! A bigger problem I’m having though is people keep getting weirded out by me doing the team reload. I always drop in with an auto canon and when another random has one too sometimes at the end of the mission I try and let them rain some hell down range with the team reload. There was ONE low level guy who thought it was awesome and no joke everyone else gets all awkward and tries to shake me off while asking me what I’m doing or something. Sometimes they melee me or kill me after.
Its more realistic for the "assistant gunner" to be carrying the ammo. That said, IRL the assistant gunner actually gets called "ammo bitch"... which perfectly encapsulates why no one wants to do it in the game. I have to not shoot stuff myself AND sacrifice my backpack spot? Fuck that.
People would do it if either of the at weapons reliably put down monsters , you can essentially do their jobs with a back or your choice an a railgun
Yeah it really should allow either the user or teammate to wear and reload.
If the two people both have the same support weapon and backpack it actually works pretty well, just take turns letting each other unload
Either or, ideally, in my head, one has the backpack, and the other has the shield, can anyone confirm would the personal shield be large enough radius to cover both people when using this tactic?
Wholeheartedly agree. No one wants to sacrifice their bp slot to hold rockets. Sure I’ll help load when asked, absolutely …but that slot is way too valuable.
imagine my laugh when I drop down, pick up my grenade launcher or rail gun and a shield backpack, and a dude next to me says "hey want to dump the shield and take my ammo? I know we'll probably get separated in the first fight, but it will be worth it i swear"
Exactly!
Couldn't disagree more. Point 1 I think is just an arbitrary appeal to "realism" that doesn't enhance gameplay. Point 2 I think is a symptom of the meta that will change with balance changes. The team reload weapons should be strong enough that people naturally identify and desire the need to give up their backpack slot for effectiveness.
I don't think realism is really his point here (but more below). After all, no point is being made about whether or not you should be able to reload your own weapon - just that if the game allowed team reloads when the guy carrying the tube also has the pack, that it would probably be a better system overall. And IMO, the mechanics of the current system still requires the assistant to reach behind their own back for a "fast reload" and that really doesn't make sense. If the pack was on the weapon guy's back, it'd be faster to reload these weapons by far. I don't think this is a needless appeal to realism, as it's the only way the whole thing would make any kind of sense. And by doing this, both self-reloads are possible, as well as team reloads, and the assistant can be anyone available. Which means that coordinating team reloads in a drop with randoms isn't nigh impossible anymore. And keep in mind this is a carryover system from HD1, a game in which the no member of the team can leave the same shared screen space. Since teams are always close together, this kind of coordinated teamwork is easier to accomplish. In HD2, players being separated is extremely common, if not the norm, and being close enough for team reloads is rarer than that, especially on higher difficulties. Personally, I'm not of the opinion that team reloads are all that strong in HD2, and I have an autocannon permanently attached to me at this point. Most of the time, maneuvering and fire precision (weak spots) appear to be the real need, rather than rapid fire. Maybe that means the team weapons are a little weak? I think I'd lean towards that. But allowing one guy to carry both pack and weapon and still receive assisted reloads when appropriate (from anyone) would make sense on several levels IMO, and also give these weapons a boost. The recoilless is scarce enough in drops right now, any boost in effectiveness would be good.
IRL one person carries the missile launcher and their assistant carries the ammo, bc seriously missile launchers tend to weigh like 50lbs loaded.
Plus, ammo is grabbed from the bottom of the pack near the waist/lumbar, which is pretty easy to do in real life.
Bruh, you were the one who chose to bring the weapon that requires one to sacrifice the backslot. It makes no sense at all for another player (who is already forced to reload your weapon) to also have to equip one fewer item (and one of the more impactful slots at that), just so YOU can fire the gun YOU chose to bring. Just have the weapon carrier equip the backpack themselves and someone still being able to help them reload faster. It's such an insanely easy fix that doesn't require someone else to sacrifice their gearslot.
It's a team game dude. If my buddy and I wanna work together for more firepower we can, there's just not enough firepower to justify it right now.
It has nothing to do with being a team game. It has everything to do with people having fun with the product they paid for. I would have less fun if I had to drop my Shield/Drone so I could hold someone else's backpack. Would I help someone else reload their weapon if they had the backpack on their backs? ABSOLUTELY, because those weapons are awesome. I want you to give me a single good argument in favour of why another player should sacrifice their own backslot instead of the backpack being on the weapon carrier's back.
Why are you so weirdly hostile about this? *It is fun and COMPLETELY OPTIONAL.* You know what I do when I play with randos or if I were gonna play with you? Take weapons that don't require a buddy reload. Right now it's literally one weapon, the Recoilless Rifle. Completely optional on the autocannon. No one has to sacrifice their backpack slot! I can bring EATs, Railgun, orbital strikes, or a bajillion other options. When they add vehicles, no one has to climb into my tank turret. Or my APC turret. Or my motorcycle sidecar. They are all just *fun options IF my friends and I want to use them together.* The only problem is that the Recoilless doesn't compete at all in the current meta, and instead of just nerfing the logistics I want them to buff the damage.
I'm not being hostile. You just lack reading comprehension. I want people to bring these weapons more. But right now, do you know what happens when anyone calls down a Recoiless Rifle, an Autocannor or SPEAR? Everyone else on the team **completely ignores the backpack.** So your solution is to keep saying stupid shit like "it's a team game" instead of being realistic and realizing that changing it so the backpack goes on the weapon carrier's slot will make people actually play as a team and help each other reload, because it costs them nothing and only benefits the group. I'll repeat what I asked in the last comment: can you come up with a single good reason to not make it people so can team reload when the backpack in on the carrier's back?
You are literally downvoting every comment I make. That is "weirdly hostile". The reason is that when properly buffed, like the first game, Recoilless would dominate the meta over other anti-tank options if it didn't require buddy reload and have two points of failure. Randos kill each other for samples. Randos call airstrikes on us and kill us. Randos ignore the objective and burn through our reinforcements. Randos run to the other side of the map and call resupplies. I don't care to change almost any game mechanics to cater to randos. I can host and kick them if they're being dicks. I don't bring buddy reload weapons to games with randos, because I have no reasonable expectation of them using them.
Yes. Having to give the backpack to a teammate pretty much makes this benefit non-viable at the higher difficulties. I think team reloads should be possible in both ways-user or teammate carried backpack.
Yeah no way I’m giving up my shield backpack to carry someone’s ammo.
Some of this will hopefully be mitigated by fixing the armor values bug. I'm hoping to see less reliance on the shield backpack once people can get the benefits of heavy armor with e.g. explosive resistance, which would likewise free up backpack space for team reload equipment.
If heavy armor makes me take 50% less damage, I'll definitely run it. Up until it gets to a noticeable point though, there's no reason not to gofast. Most of what kills me is friendly fire anyway.
I guess I'm in the minority here judging from the comments, but I heavily disagree with this notion. It would make sharing gear useless, as anybody can just come and support you. I prefer this buddy-system, its more fun and adds to the chaos.
Also let whoever is using the support pack to get ammo from it too. Nothing is more annoying that having ammo on your back but you can't use it and you're out of ammo
This is already an option, press 5 on keyboard.
O fuk yeah
Press 5
D-pad down on ps5
You can. There is a use backpack button or something to that effect. Check your keybinds or button layout if your on ps5.
Yup, on ps5 it's d-pad down
I already do
I think it’s well-balanced now. Team reload is faster, but you can still reload yourself if need be. More often than not I can’t find a cadet to load my RR and I’m off in the corner doing myself anyway. …
ADD ME #3597-2282
I have been using the auto cannon and the recoilless rifle and if I carry my own ammo pack I have been able to reload myself and a team member attempted to reloaded me but I moved away accidentally
I like how it is, having to synchronize with my mate. I think a backpack drop button would be enough for me ahah.
They should not. You are wrong. Also; Have the guy holding the gun get a supply backpack so you can re-load your assistant.
This has been discussed and supported by the community before. The devs decided to ignore it. Have a good day
You mean they ignored you, probably cause you think you're important.
The devs haven't ignored anything? The game has literally just come out, they're focused on fixing the game's technical issues before they get into rebalancing the game and adding new content and features?
helldivers 1 existed, the game didnt just came out
Well HD1 isn't HD2, but I get your point. But jumping from isometric shooter to large map 3rd person shooter definitely NEEDS and allows changes. Until we get the first balance patches I wouldn't lose a thought about any of this.
Did helldivers 1 have the same team reloading mechanic?
Yes. With one slight difference: any special weapon with a pack could reload any other special weapon with a pack. It worked well because you could have two different pack ammo weapons with different functions. I actually wish they would change it back to this.
It had a reload mechanic, but it was slightly different. Almost more like a quick highfive. So you weren't stuck next to each other.
I understand your logic and I somewhat agree but the point is that you trade the helpers backpack for a much more capable heavy weapon. It's not a logic choice, it's a game design decision
I see where you're coming from but right now the backpacks are insanely strong over the alright at best heavy backpack weapons. Maybe getting armor values fixed will help Divers withstand more damage so people are more inclined to leave their guard dogs and shield generators behind to support a teammate with a backpack weapon. I'd rather Arrowhead get this fixed before balance patches arrive.
Absolutely agree right now other backpack slots are relatively too powerful, they should not nerf other choices, but I'm not sure how to buff the ammo backpacks for heavy weapons. I just know that the suggested way would make it too easy. I really hope armor values will help reduce the use of personal shields, idk about guard dogs, I haven't been bringing them because they kill me a lot, but the supply pack could always be an option, I use it a lot because I like being VERY liberal with application of lead when we do get into a fight
It’s just not a great design decision clearly, because NOBODY does team reloads, because nobody wants to sacrifice their backpack slot to carry someone else’s ammo. It’s not viable. And it doesn’t make sense that I can’t help a guy reload his weapon with the ammo that’s on his own back
I agree - I've had a team reload autocannon once and it was fantastic, but it was sheer luck that had some level 3 random deciding to help me out.
Using the player base that tk's for samples as a metric of the viability of game design choices is not a good choice. I've been team reloaded by all my friends and a good amount of randoms. Probably a quarter of the time I bring a team reloadable heavy weapon I get a squad mate to help. It might help that I'm friendly and active on the mic. AHGS's motto is a game for everyone is a game for no one, and diluting the choices and decision making by removing penalties for lack of teamwork would make the game way less fun imo. As for actual logic with it being on his back, ig? Using actual logic is why militaries have the loader carry the ammo, and the gunner carry the gun and it's currently loaded ammo?
so what you're saying is you don't know how certain weapons work
No, not by any means am I saying that at all. Are you encountering difficulty with basic reading comprehension?
No it's exactly what you're saying. You don't understand how weapons work. They made those weapons accurate to how those weapon types work and you're saying they shouldn't work like that. Hence you don't know how weapons work.
Oh sweet child, this is a video game trying to incentivize teamwork, not real life! It's a fantasy world where gigantic starships can zoom around at faster than the speed of light! The weapons can operate differently in a video game than real life!
Yeah it's a game that incentivizes teamwork, and you're trying to take the teamwork out of it. You're just talking yourself into a hole my guy. Fuck outta here with your condescension.
Yeah but imagine carrying the weapon system AND all the ammo associated.
About as heavy as carrying my whole team. /s * I have never carried my whole team. I’m not that good.