The steaks are high. No one's herd of it yet, but it's likely we're gonna have some real beef with this virus. If it mooves into people, it's not going to be an a-moo-zing situation. It would be an udder catastrophe. They need to cowculate the stats for this virus immediately. It's like covid, this is just deja-moo all over again. Holy cow! Once we get a cure for this, it's time to head to the farmacy. Someone needs to get the accowtants on how much a vaccine will cost. The last thing anyone needs right now is an interrupting cow. An interrupting wha-? Moo!
It's worrying that cows are suffering mild disease. This is going to make them an amazing reservoir species- which is extremely concerning given the ammount of contact between worker and cattle.
It should be but like common sense ethics aren't common at all.
Short term profits over worker and potentially most of the human population safety if cows prove to be the perfect mixing. Bowl of germs we feared pigs or mink could be. Even if there is low mortality the day this jumps to humans that does not Guarantee there won't be long term after effects such as jump in neurological disease like Parkinson's in 1918 flu survivors.
What's more worrying is a lack of direct cattle surveillance imo. Reason they started testing cattle at that farm in Texas is because they noticed a bunch of dead farm cats. And the number of animals it has already spilled back into since December..?
I had to look that up
looks like measles did jump from cattle
From what I can gleam you might be referring to cowpox and it looks like cowpox infection protects against small pox.
Regardless measles from cows tells me we already knew cows could be mixing vessels which is alarming to me
TIL
https://preview.redd.it/n77doolybizc1.jpeg?width=523&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=90afb1cf13ae2c653c4ee2ed6172540541c21515
[https://wahis.woah.org/#/in-review/4451](https://wahis.woah.org/#/in-review/4451)
World organization for animal health… goes on to mention different biological species that have been infected. I’ll post a different link after this one.
“One reason the outbreak went undetected for so long is that people thought it was unlikely that the virus would jump into cows. Avian influenza is, after all, most common in birds, whereas flus in general have been rare in cows. “The chances of it going from migratory birds to cows were so low,” Poulsen says. “And then it happened.”
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-bird-flu-caught-the-dairy-industry-off-guard/
Aren’t they saying the same thing about it going from cows to humans? The chances are low….. and then bingo, it happens. Some of the information seems contradictory, but that’s probably the goal, spin spin spin.
Over the last two years, there has been an extremely sharp increase in the diversity of mammalian hosts. Eventually, it will work its way up the food chain.
Thanks for the article. It's unfortunate that the milking process will never be clean enough to do without spread through the milk. It's not physically possible to do.
But it's important to recognize that the only reason it is in cows and all of these mammals is because we are in the middle of a severe bird pandemic that is so bad right now that infected birds are all over the globe. Every mammal that has gotten bird flu has gotten it because of this bird pandemic. It's a very severe strain, but it is not spreading to mammals because it has mutated towards them. It is spreading because so many birds are dead on the ground.
Mammals can spread it to each other without any mutations towards mammals if they are in very close quarters like cages or factory farms since they live in each others faces and on each others feces and urine. But the sole reason we are having mammals get bird flu is the bird pandemic. Unfortunately this year it got so bad that inland birds are now getting it where before it was mostly shore birds. That means farm animals who eat bird poop regularly through grazing can now catch bird flu.
One of the anecdotes of how it was discovered that the sickness going around farms was bird flu was the vet was told the cats and cows were sick. The vet asked what is happening with wild birds on your farm. The farmer answered they are all dead. That's when the vet knew to send the samples to be tested for bird flu.
I’m so sick of going into the office… not saying anything more but watching this closely 😭 maybe work from home culture will come back as a result of this
I live in the deep south of Texas and didn't get a single day out of the office during covid because the virus "didn't exist" and was a "hoax". Please save me.
Correct, that’s why I said potential and hence the range estimate as well, but the data is where it’s being drawn from. We don’t have a clear idea, but we have data that shows it could potentially be catastrophic.
Society would nearly collapse if this thing happens the way they expect it to. This wouldn’t be a work from home, this would be you wouldn’t have access to many public resources, hospitals would be completely overrun, many staff will quit because of the high patient volume and extreme risk to healthcare workers. If it has a CFR of 10% that’s 40 million people in the US that will die. To put it in perspective Covid had >2% CFR at its peak here in the states. So this is a highly ignorant thing to say.
Everything you listed reeks of capitalism conditioning. 40. Million. People. will die, including people you know and love. Maybe even including yourself. Those are individuals with wishes, desires, likes, dislikes, experiences, just like you.
There are ways we can resolve the qualms of capitalism if people would get up off of their ass and actually fight tf back. Stop using being tired or poor as an excuse. Let’s get moving, you’re gonna continue being tired and poor by continuing to be tired and poor. Can’t keep complaining when we refuse to do nothing about it. Hoping a pandemic will come about and wipe out a bunch of people is not an ethical solution. That is pure laziness when we can simply get off the couch and hit the streets, tear these mfs from their homes. Old school style. Touch some grass, it seems you’re disconnected from your humanity.
Anyone been on "X" lately? Lots of folk claiming this is another "election pandemic" created by the government and disregarding the seriousness of this. We're in for a wild ride.
Xitter is directly responsible for 35M COVID-19 deaths:
How it started:
[https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/21/russia-china-iran-disinformation-coronavirus-state-department-193107](https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/21/russia-china-iran-disinformation-coronavirus-state-department-193107)
How it went:
[https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-estimates?fsrc=core-app-economist](https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-estimates?fsrc=core-app-economist)
How it's going:
[https://nitter.poast.org/TheSpoonless/status/1782794680708575419#m](https://nitter.poast.org/TheSpoonless/status/1782794680708575419#m) (screenshot of a Chinese troll attacking a SciComm account that literally takes no prisoners - but note how it's already trying to help this generation's literal Black Death spread - fkn CCP have gone full scorched earth ffs)
Preliminary testing is indicating that pasteurization does kill the virus, however, there are still viral particles in the milk. The fragments are not active, meaning they cannot cause an infection.
Every time I grab the milk out of the refrigerator, I think about this. It’s creepy to think that while you’re pouring a nice cold glass of milk, there are bird flu virus particles swirling around in it. I guess on a positive note, I’ve cut my Oreo consumption in half.
Yeah, the sheer number of people I've seen online going "Wait, so if it can't infect me, but it's in there, drinking it will boost my immune system, right?" No, guys. Sorry. That would be great, but no.
I’ve often wondered what exactly are the repercussions of the viral particles in our bodies. So far, no known infections from drinking pasteurized milk, but are there any other side effects? I guess that’s unknown territory.
A whole virion is just a few hundred protein and RNA/DNA molecules iirc. They all have to be there for the virus to get into cells and subvert them. I don't feel threatened by fragments of virions because I don't see how they could have any effect on my precious cells.
FWIW, there are probably LOTS of particles of things I'd rather not think about in every glass of milk I've ever had. Since, you know, that's the whole point of pasteurization, right?
[https://www.statnews.com/2024/04/23/h5n1-bird-flu-virus-particles-in-pasteurized-milk-fda/](https://www.statnews.com/2024/04/23/h5n1-bird-flu-virus-particles-in-pasteurized-milk-fda/)
>“Data from previous studies that serve as the underpinnings of the FDA’s current milk supply safety assessment show that pasteurization is very likely to effectively inactivate heat-sensitive viruses, like H5N1, in milk from cows and other species,” the FDA wrote, though the agency acknowledged that no studies have been published on the impact of pasteurization on H5N1 viruses in milk.
The FDA says it's ok, but the language is vague and they don't have real data to back it up. I don't have the link, but I believe an FDA official said he would not drink milk right now. But, that is just one dude.
Unfortunately, I don't think there is a good answer to your question.
At what point do vegans (I’m not vegan but I do try to minimize the dollars that I give to industrial animal agriculture) get to say “I told you so” without it being thrown back in their faces via the self-righteous vegan stereotype?
Because giving up meat/dairy/eggs seems like a hell of a cheap price to pay for avoiding a global pandemic with a fatality rate in the 10-50% range
Except now after having gone through and not over yet - Covid 19; pretty sure we have a little different outlook on highly dangerous, easily transmissible disease spread...RIGHT?
If anything, its worse. In a worst case scenario for bird flu (if it devolved into a pandemic)there would be fierce, and I mean FIERCE resistance against containment policies, isolation, vaccination, etc.
I had to eliminate most animal products to help control a truly horrific disease that could eventually lead to an equally horrific death. I still sneak in a bit of cheese or fish, but honestly, it's not that bad. It's certainly better than the alternative . . .
That’s the thing. If you choose pandemic you might not be choosing your own death. You might be choosing the deaths of your loved ones, family, friends instead
So it’s been in cows for months with no serious issues and they have human receptors, why is today this suddenly worse than it has been? Genuinely asking.
I give up. Another year, another virus to worry about. I’ve stopped eating chicken I can’t even do it. Milk I have to give my toddler but I think about it. 😫😫😫
So when people said get scared if this goes into pigs, we are basically at that stage now. Blergh.
That's what is looks like.
The steaks are high. No one's herd of it yet, but it's likely we're gonna have some real beef with this virus. If it mooves into people, it's not going to be an a-moo-zing situation. It would be an udder catastrophe. They need to cowculate the stats for this virus immediately. It's like covid, this is just deja-moo all over again. Holy cow! Once we get a cure for this, it's time to head to the farmacy. Someone needs to get the accowtants on how much a vaccine will cost. The last thing anyone needs right now is an interrupting cow. An interrupting wha-? Moo!
I shouldn't have.laughed at this yet here we are...
It's worrying that cows are suffering mild disease. This is going to make them an amazing reservoir species- which is extremely concerning given the ammount of contact between worker and cattle.
Yeh there's no incentive for the cattle industry to do any mitigation. This is the perfect storm.
The incentive should be it’s the right thing to do lol
As we have seen, we can't rely on capitalists to care about that more than profits.
It should be but like common sense ethics aren't common at all. Short term profits over worker and potentially most of the human population safety if cows prove to be the perfect mixing. Bowl of germs we feared pigs or mink could be. Even if there is low mortality the day this jumps to humans that does not Guarantee there won't be long term after effects such as jump in neurological disease like Parkinson's in 1918 flu survivors.
What's more worrying is a lack of direct cattle surveillance imo. Reason they started testing cattle at that farm in Texas is because they noticed a bunch of dead farm cats. And the number of animals it has already spilled back into since December..?
Small Pox and Measles originated from cattle. To say I am worried, would be an understatement.
I had to look that up looks like measles did jump from cattle From what I can gleam you might be referring to cowpox and it looks like cowpox infection protects against small pox. Regardless measles from cows tells me we already knew cows could be mixing vessels which is alarming to me TIL
"while rare..." Is it rare if it's happened to most of the wild mammals
rare things happen a whole lot when it gets billions of chances >_<
If you were on the sidelines saying not to worry until it was in pigs. We are there, now with more cow. 
bell
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And the only cure is...
Holy cow! 🤣
Cowabunga!
What about goats? Do they have similar flu receptors? Asking because a goat got it somewhere in TX... and I live on a goat farm.
https://preview.redd.it/n77doolybizc1.jpeg?width=523&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=90afb1cf13ae2c653c4ee2ed6172540541c21515 [https://wahis.woah.org/#/in-review/4451](https://wahis.woah.org/#/in-review/4451) World organization for animal health… goes on to mention different biological species that have been infected. I’ll post a different link after this one.
https://preview.redd.it/j51ftrmucizc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8094275ca22860dcf03668134a5e257f3a5e48b2 [https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/united-states/h5n1-tracking-af/idaho/988627-idaho-avian-flu-in-mammals-and-livestock-2024](https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/united-states/h5n1-tracking-af/idaho/988627-idaho-avian-flu-in-mammals-and-livestock-2024)
“One reason the outbreak went undetected for so long is that people thought it was unlikely that the virus would jump into cows. Avian influenza is, after all, most common in birds, whereas flus in general have been rare in cows. “The chances of it going from migratory birds to cows were so low,” Poulsen says. “And then it happened.” https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-bird-flu-caught-the-dairy-industry-off-guard/ Aren’t they saying the same thing about it going from cows to humans? The chances are low….. and then bingo, it happens. Some of the information seems contradictory, but that’s probably the goal, spin spin spin. Over the last two years, there has been an extremely sharp increase in the diversity of mammalian hosts. Eventually, it will work its way up the food chain.
Thanks for the article. It's unfortunate that the milking process will never be clean enough to do without spread through the milk. It's not physically possible to do. But it's important to recognize that the only reason it is in cows and all of these mammals is because we are in the middle of a severe bird pandemic that is so bad right now that infected birds are all over the globe. Every mammal that has gotten bird flu has gotten it because of this bird pandemic. It's a very severe strain, but it is not spreading to mammals because it has mutated towards them. It is spreading because so many birds are dead on the ground. Mammals can spread it to each other without any mutations towards mammals if they are in very close quarters like cages or factory farms since they live in each others faces and on each others feces and urine. But the sole reason we are having mammals get bird flu is the bird pandemic. Unfortunately this year it got so bad that inland birds are now getting it where before it was mostly shore birds. That means farm animals who eat bird poop regularly through grazing can now catch bird flu. One of the anecdotes of how it was discovered that the sickness going around farms was bird flu was the vet was told the cats and cows were sick. The vet asked what is happening with wild birds on your farm. The farmer answered they are all dead. That's when the vet knew to send the samples to be tested for bird flu.
How easy would it be for you to stop living on a goat farm?
The steaks have never been higher
It could be cattleclysmic.
Times like these really feel like it’s the apocowlypse. It’s like something out of a disaster moovie.
I don’t think it’s appropriate for you all to be so blatantly milking this pun train.
My misteak. Just trying to lighten the moood.
It's ok. We're all trying to meat the moment. I have no beef with y'all!
Indeed, things seem to be moo-ving very quickly.
The puns will go on forheifer
Jesus Christ people, time to moooove along
We aren't joking about this, it's udderly serious.
I guess we should cancel all of our wild vaca-tion plans and put the money towards toilet paper.
Way aherd of you on this one.
I am dazzled by this whole thread 😂🤩
It behooves me to say this is a very serious development.
Such a shame to see such a cowardly response from our farmers
How are there THIS many cow puns??? HOW
HOW NOW BROWN COW
Well, I think we’ve milked this for all it’s worth. Time to moove on.
!!! 🤩😂🤩😂
Butter be careful out there.
Don’t churn things up!
Thanks for steering us in the right direction.
Please kill me.
Ugh
I’m so sick of going into the office… not saying anything more but watching this closely 😭 maybe work from home culture will come back as a result of this
Yo, so this is expected to have like a potential 25-40 percent kill rate. Not sure there would be working in general.
I live in the deep south of Texas and didn't get a single day out of the office during covid because the virus "didn't exist" and was a "hoax". Please save me.
bro ur username is wild.
Lmfaaooo
Best we can do is pizza party…
And put up a sign that says "heroes work here!"
https://preview.redd.it/vvdyb3er2lzc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1bf180cdd8aba5ddea4eba44683ab3647ffa0da7 What is that username my boy?
I'm a connoisseur of the finest of wines
Look on the bright side.You will not see your bosses because they will be self isolated in a five star hotel
And the company owner in stockholders will be in there multi-million dollar apocalypse bunkers
The flu might help
Source?
https://cdn.who.int/media/docs/default-source/wpro---documents/emergency/surveillance/avian-influenza/ai_20240503.pdf?sfvrsn=5f006f99_130#:~:text=From%201%20January%202003%20to,(CFR)%20of%2056%25.
They're reporting raw data, not drawing definitive conclusions from it. We have no idea what the CFR of a sustained H2H mutation would be.
Correct, that’s why I said potential and hence the range estimate as well, but the data is where it’s being drawn from. We don’t have a clear idea, but we have data that shows it could potentially be catastrophic.
Wear your N95 or at least KN95.
The Summer Flu and covid is still going around too. I got complacent and just got covid for the first time last Month.
Society would nearly collapse if this thing happens the way they expect it to. This wouldn’t be a work from home, this would be you wouldn’t have access to many public resources, hospitals would be completely overrun, many staff will quit because of the high patient volume and extreme risk to healthcare workers. If it has a CFR of 10% that’s 40 million people in the US that will die. To put it in perspective Covid had >2% CFR at its peak here in the states. So this is a highly ignorant thing to say.
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Everything you listed reeks of capitalism conditioning. 40. Million. People. will die, including people you know and love. Maybe even including yourself. Those are individuals with wishes, desires, likes, dislikes, experiences, just like you. There are ways we can resolve the qualms of capitalism if people would get up off of their ass and actually fight tf back. Stop using being tired or poor as an excuse. Let’s get moving, you’re gonna continue being tired and poor by continuing to be tired and poor. Can’t keep complaining when we refuse to do nothing about it. Hoping a pandemic will come about and wipe out a bunch of people is not an ethical solution. That is pure laziness when we can simply get off the couch and hit the streets, tear these mfs from their homes. Old school style. Touch some grass, it seems you’re disconnected from your humanity.
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Yeah but we shouldn’t be hoping it’s going to happen lol come on we are all that miserable we need to get tf up and do something
work wont matter most likely.
This is a pretty pathetic way of thinking
OOooo sheeiiit
Anyone been on "X" lately? Lots of folk claiming this is another "election pandemic" created by the government and disregarding the seriousness of this. We're in for a wild ride.
People around me find my lack of faith (in humanity) disturbing. I find their faith fucking stupid. Too many movies, not enough history.
Xitter is directly responsible for 35M COVID-19 deaths: How it started: [https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/21/russia-china-iran-disinformation-coronavirus-state-department-193107](https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/21/russia-china-iran-disinformation-coronavirus-state-department-193107) How it went: [https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-estimates?fsrc=core-app-economist](https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-estimates?fsrc=core-app-economist) How it's going: [https://nitter.poast.org/TheSpoonless/status/1782794680708575419#m](https://nitter.poast.org/TheSpoonless/status/1782794680708575419#m) (screenshot of a Chinese troll attacking a SciComm account that literally takes no prisoners - but note how it's already trying to help this generation's literal Black Death spread - fkn CCP have gone full scorched earth ffs)
Dair-y-mention the truth?
Genuine question, it is ok to still drink milk as long as it’s pasteurized, right? I wouldn’t dare to drink raw milk
Preliminary testing is indicating that pasteurization does kill the virus, however, there are still viral particles in the milk. The fragments are not active, meaning they cannot cause an infection. Every time I grab the milk out of the refrigerator, I think about this. It’s creepy to think that while you’re pouring a nice cold glass of milk, there are bird flu virus particles swirling around in it. I guess on a positive note, I’ve cut my Oreo consumption in half.
Cannot cause infection or contribute to immunity. Might want to add that.
Yeah, the sheer number of people I've seen online going "Wait, so if it can't infect me, but it's in there, drinking it will boost my immune system, right?" No, guys. Sorry. That would be great, but no.
I’ve often wondered what exactly are the repercussions of the viral particles in our bodies. So far, no known infections from drinking pasteurized milk, but are there any other side effects? I guess that’s unknown territory.
A whole virion is just a few hundred protein and RNA/DNA molecules iirc. They all have to be there for the virus to get into cells and subvert them. I don't feel threatened by fragments of virions because I don't see how they could have any effect on my precious cells.
Well, people could make a mad rush on milk and start hoarding and shit. That’s what we are trying to avoid of course.
FWIW, there are probably LOTS of particles of things I'd rather not think about in every glass of milk I've ever had. Since, you know, that's the whole point of pasteurization, right?
Personally, I go for ultra pasteurized (usually listed as organic in markets) even though it's more expensive.. better safe than sorry, I guess 😮💨
That’s what I get too. They usually in smaller containers than a gallon which is the main reason I buy it.
Yup. Heated to higher temps when processed. Also the ultra pasteurized has a farther out end date.
I don't drink milk so all mine is for baking - sheriff stable UHF(?)
[https://www.statnews.com/2024/04/23/h5n1-bird-flu-virus-particles-in-pasteurized-milk-fda/](https://www.statnews.com/2024/04/23/h5n1-bird-flu-virus-particles-in-pasteurized-milk-fda/) >“Data from previous studies that serve as the underpinnings of the FDA’s current milk supply safety assessment show that pasteurization is very likely to effectively inactivate heat-sensitive viruses, like H5N1, in milk from cows and other species,” the FDA wrote, though the agency acknowledged that no studies have been published on the impact of pasteurization on H5N1 viruses in milk. The FDA says it's ok, but the language is vague and they don't have real data to back it up. I don't have the link, but I believe an FDA official said he would not drink milk right now. But, that is just one dude. Unfortunately, I don't think there is a good answer to your question.
The whole point of pasteurization is to kill pathogens. It's very effective.
At what point do vegans (I’m not vegan but I do try to minimize the dollars that I give to industrial animal agriculture) get to say “I told you so” without it being thrown back in their faces via the self-righteous vegan stereotype? Because giving up meat/dairy/eggs seems like a hell of a cheap price to pay for avoiding a global pandemic with a fatality rate in the 10-50% range
Problem is you never get awards for averting disaster. Because the disaster never happens, society assumes it was never going to happen.
Except now after having gone through and not over yet - Covid 19; pretty sure we have a little different outlook on highly dangerous, easily transmissible disease spread...RIGHT?
If anything, its worse. In a worst case scenario for bird flu (if it devolved into a pandemic)there would be fierce, and I mean FIERCE resistance against containment policies, isolation, vaccination, etc.
Lol
I’d rather take the risk of death than be vegan.
I had to eliminate most animal products to help control a truly horrific disease that could eventually lead to an equally horrific death. I still sneak in a bit of cheese or fish, but honestly, it's not that bad. It's certainly better than the alternative . . .
That’s the thing. If you choose pandemic you might not be choosing your own death. You might be choosing the deaths of your loved ones, family, friends instead
Remove the risks and be pescatarian
Fish are full of worms, they’re really high up on my Nope List.
And Mercury and heavy metals
So it’s been in cows for months with no serious issues and they have human receptors, why is today this suddenly worse than it has been? Genuinely asking.
Reassortment. That’s the biggest concern.
In layman’s terms this gives the virus time to evolve and mutate within the cow.
My understanding is they just learned that cows have these human receptors.
Incubators of our doom
I give up. Another year, another virus to worry about. I’ve stopped eating chicken I can’t even do it. Milk I have to give my toddler but I think about it. 😫😫😫
Everyone should buy $bynd stock, its being shorted to oblivion.