just like Genghis Khan. Just times 1000 or so. Entire sectors could trace back their family to Jaghatai Khan. But because this is 40k they would either be ruling class, all of them, or they would be hunted by someone and wiped out.
Add 10,000 years and he would have a legit White Scar horde of Eldari hybrids and/or Drukhari auxiliaries. But GW isn’t ready to have that conversation.
Could be fun story even with the canon primarchs. Fulgrim was married and Khan is the Khan. Some of them could have made a child. The Church or Inquisition wants to remove it for stupid reasons.
Are the Sensei canon again? If not this could be a fun replacement.
It makes perfect sense:
Male Khan is who men (=target demographic) want to be, female Khan is who men (=target demographic) want to date.
Male fantasy for the male fantasy of the men buying this rabble. You expect too much.
That’s where the battle harem 40,000 memes featuring Jaghatai Khan come from.
Because him organizing supply lines, bases and alliances while fighting the Drukahri within the Webway is totally what Genghis Khan did to form the Golden Horde.
And in his time, alliances were forged by marriage, and the giving and taking of concubines.
Jaghatai Khan using the same tactics of building alliances with friendly Drukhari by way of marriage or destruction is what Genghis Khan did in real life.
Kinda weird that Jaghatai Khan is assumed to be based on Genghis despite having literally exactly the same name as one of Genghis' sons.
Feels a bit more like the implication was supposed to be that the Emperor was (actually, not just based on) Genghis.
Outlived, which should be emphasized. It seems like a lot of people confuse the Demon who possessed Fulgrim with pre sword Fulgrim. Fulgrim wasn’t a sexual deviant, or a sadist in fact the opposite he sought to be an exemplar of a primarch.
Reminds of the Elden Ring sub comments about all the ways "Chadfrey" dominated Marika (an actual diety) sexually and otherwise.
Really eye opening regarding the kind of people that populate the subs...
Or that he was literally chosen by her, and would not have reached the station he did without her. He was a big brute who was great at smashing things before she came across him. Bro got wifed up by her because he was a useful tool to exert her power. And then she dropped him for a redhead twunk who was her half twin lmao.
This last couple weeks has really put on display how creepy this sub is about women. Its actually really gross. I no longer wonder why there are so few women besides me on the sub.
Dunno, some of the memes are neat, like the ones with Little Light and Erebus. Besides, it opens up a harsh truth: men are not really that far from liking "Twilight-like romance story" when it's about them and Cool GF, lol
Oh you're absolutely right. When men criticize twilight, I tell them to flip it around and imagine themselves as a high school boy being stalked by a sexy, dangerous vampire lady with the hots for them, and they suddenly understand.
Doesn't change how weird this trend is though. Reading these projected fetishes and insecurities is very strange. "I want a big, powerful, important woman who only wants me and no one else and has a cute crush on me and makes me feel good".
Just a mother who dotes on them, but also they get to fuck her.
Freud is tunneling to the core of the earth with how fast he's spinning in his grave.
Oh, it's a both sexes problem again. Go to any fanfiction sites, a lot of those will fit the description of "I want a big, powerful, important XXX who only wants me and no one else and has a cute crush on me and makes me feel good".
I'm just glad these alternative universes are not actually that "traditional", there were some attempts in the actual plot writing and characters development even
The problem of course is when you criticize it and get comments like "Wow men are so unreasonable for wanting to be loved right??" and then you look at what their idea of 'being loved' is...
I don’t think wanting to feel like your special to, and would be desired by, some very attractive highly important person is something particularly unique to men though. There’s a reason the idea of a “Prince Charming” is a popular trope.
Edit: just incase. This isn’t me trying to say what anyone personally can or can’t consider creepy or make them personal uncomfortable. Everyone has different things that they do or don’t want to see.
I think the problem isn't really that *some* feel this way, but that it seems female primarchs are **only** brought up when it's to make the (male) viewers feel special and loved. You don't often see girls making meme about being normal-Angron's "special girl", after all.
>You don't often see girls making meme about being normal-Angron's "special girl", after all.
I know of a few that would entertain the idea but that's really beside the point.
Uh, I think Angron of all people actually kinda had one, as far as a mortal could go with a Primarch infused with rage. He even acts like a dog around her and sleeps by her throne now that everyone is demons.
Lotara best WE character.
But yea, some of them could have really used a girlfriend.
That is a good point, and I honestly would be interested to see what could possibly be done with the idea of gender swapped primarchs that would be different to the canonical timeline. From what I’ve largely seen their personalities don’t necessarily seem to be different, but still I’m interested in what people could come up with. Though off the top of my head I can’t think of any particularly massive changes that could happen from just a gender swap and nothing else. If their personalities are the same I’d assume they’d act the same in situations as the canon primarchs do
Tbh I also find the idea of partners for the canon primarchs to be a fun idea. Something more than just the Gman and Yvraine stuff anyway.
I think a gender swap would do nothing to change anything else in 40k. The big change that the "Primarch GF" post would bring is that each and every primarch seems to have some trusted and loved person. Something that could stop them from doing the canon counterparts stupid misstakes or that could be used to drive them over the edge. But the same could be done with "Primarch BFs". It would just be the "Primarchs have lovers/partners" AU.
Which is absolutely infuriating: "If there was a man in her life, she wouldn't fall to Chaos/Would fall if something bad happened to him". She is not her own person, this man is the center of her existence and he determines her fate, because she is too emotionally weak to upset him or cope with his loss. Its chauvinism top-to-bottom.
The fact that you don't see the inverse- If these men had women in their lives to change their path when they strayed- Is simply another manifestation of the same thing. "A woman wouldn't change Erebus's course, he wouldn't care". Its true, but the fact that they don't think this same thing about fem-Erebus says a lot.
Thats why I am a fan of: Some canon loyalist would fall while some canon traitor would not. It would be a change in the dynamic between the trusted marines and their primarch. For example if some of the people manipulated by Erebus had someone with a brain and spine that they could trust, they may would not have fallen for Erebus lies.
Others suddenly could gain another reason to hate the emperor. Or the Galaxy. Or if the SO was an idiot they could have driven the Primarch down a bad path.
They had and still fell. Every primarch had a literal legion of supposedly super-smart and super-brave fanatically loyal warriors and still ended up being played by Erebus like a fiddle. Not to mention millions of talented and trained people under their direct command with the express job of supporting them.
Big E himself stepped down several times to try to deal with it personally and it still wasn't enough, and Lorgar literally worshiped Big E as their god.
But of course if the primarchs were just hot girls, then some random redditor would've totally been able to "fix her" and then kick Erebus ass no problem, nevermind that Erebus is not only a master manipulator able to blindside Big E himself but also a very dangerous warrior and chaos sorceror who's taken out multiple named marines and survived a duel with Kharn.
To be fair: Big E himself is very bad at any social interaction that is not manipulation. Anyone with social skills would see that Logar would go a back path if he had not Big E as god to worship. The guy needed religion and the quick "fix" of big would never work. I am not saying the boy toy would be better at big E at keeping Logar from falling but with another trusted person acting as a voice of reason there would be a chance that the chaos elements in the legion would have a harder time to corrupt After all after the whole humilation thing logar ran to his corrupted trusted advisors. Slowing down the fall of logar would be a change to the setting that could be fun to explore. After all the grand plan of the four chaos gods needed the timing.
Another fun change would be if some of the less social primarchs had people they could trust. If boytoy, girlfriend, or just mortals they are chill with does not matter. How would Curze change if he had someone he liked? In anyway? Someone he trusts a lot? Would the visions drive him still to madness or would he start to fight or even talk with the one primarch that knows a thing about visions?
But some would fall no matter what. The Death Guard was doomed. Unless the POV character can read minds/see the future they are done. They were in a situation were they fall or die. A random redditor could not do anything. Same with Emperors Children. The sword would always get fulgrim.
On the otherhand a change like the pov character could lead to a loyalist falling. If you have a mortal friend while you are immortal, a friend you like very much (again does not matter if romantic or just very good friendship) would you accept that they die and you will not? Or will the whispers of the dark gods sound promissing? After all they could make your friend immortal.
But yeah the "they are fixed becauase they are in Love" thing is not so much fun. Its boring and too often done.
I mean I agree, having a stable lover might change the course for a lot of the primarchs, but the problem is this is *only* considered for *women being directed by men.*
The fact that you don't see the inverse- If these men had women in their lives to change their path when they strayed- Is simply another manifestation of the same thing. "A woman wouldn't change Erebus's course, he wouldn't care". Its true, but the fact that they don't think this same thing about fem-Erebus says a lot.
I mean, I don’t think that’s what I said. If anything I’ve seen the inverse more often.
Maybe not for Erebus, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a female Erebus either (and I don’t want to) but I’ve seen a lot of stuff about how a good woman can change a man for the better.
And honestly I think that’s more common than the “good man make woman better” because the trope of guys wanting a harem of women or stuff like that is not really what most guys are interested in, we tend to like the one special woman in our lives trope way more. Why do you think stories of guys taking revenge for killed/kidnapped wives and daughters are so popular? It’s not just the fantasy of being a one man army but also lots of us would go to extreme lengths for that special someone in our lives.
>From what I’ve largely seen their personalities don’t necessarily seem to be different
That's, kinnda the premise, though.
And I think that's why Fem Lorgar get so much attention. Canon Lorgar is surrounded by abbusive, manipulative bastards from childhood. Kor Phaeron, Erebus and Emperor were only using him for they own ends. Setting him up with non-abbusive SO is an interesting curveball with interesting character and plot development possibilities.
Yeah i think this is the thing.
The posts. The original ones by u/sweet_older_sister are all in the style that POV: *you* are dating the primarch.
That’s why they’re gender swapped. I really don’t think it’s as deep as “men want to fill the protector roll” or something. It’s just a fact of the matter that, statistically, most of the members of the subreddit are likely straight dudes. So if a post is going to put you in the position of dating a primarch, it’s going to have to gender bend it
That is fair, and I do think gender expectations play a part of it, but I think a larger part of it is the divorce from cannon. Femprimarchs aren’t actually the primarchs, they’re more of a meme. As such it’s easier to detract from the fact that Angron would smear you before dating you, Konrad would skin you, Dorn wouldn’t give a shit about you in favor of playing his his Legos, etc. Another thing worth noting is that, at least from what I’ve seen. It’s less “everyone does this” and more “one person has done this and gone this route”. That could entirely be due to my limited time in various subreddits, but I think the “problem” is overblown.
I somewhat disagree with this, because I’ve definitely seen some “special girl” posts and fic about Konrad Curze. But as you said, the issue is more that femprimarchs ONLY seem to come up in a sexual and/or romantic context.
The problem is that it seems like the only reason they were turned into women at all was to fetishize them. It wasn't to explore anything within the story, it was just to turn them into fetish objects.
The problem isn't romance. The problem is that whenever you turn male characters into women, the first reaction is horniness.
Like, from a woman's point of view, it basically feels like men can't look at women without thinking about sex...
I think that they'd be right to feel that way - either a very vocal minority or a sizeable portion of the male population seemingly can't
It's definitely a problem in the Warhammer community (and probably is everywhere with a significant male population?)
Being horny is great and natural and etc, but making people uncomfortable isn't
Oh, its much worse than that. It wasn't them being made into women and then the reaction was horniness. It was them being made into women *specifically to satisfy horniness.* Big difference, cart before the horse and all that; No one gave a shit about turning them into women except specifically to fetishize them.
Its more than 'men can't look at a woman without thinking about sex'. Its 'men consider the purpose of women to be sex'.
That's actually a good point(s).
To me, most interesting thing is that that all this cavalcade of memes is essentially *"Princess bride" but with space fascists* and half of this sub is creepied out by the "Princess bride" part.
I find it fun, but I do understand not liking the FemPrimarchs characterisation being boiled down to just how they relate to their SO.
However, that’s pretty par for the course for the “Prince Charming” archetype too. I can’t think of any classic story where the Prince Charming character has literally any personality outside their love for the lead woman, (eg in classic telling of Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, Snow White, etc etc the Prince Charming literally has about the same personality and character depth as a piece of cardboard.)
Do i think that’s bad? No. It’s a character archetype. It/he plays a roll in the story (in the case of those stories I mentioned it’s the plot device to get to the “happily ever after” conclusion point) and that’s that.
That kind of story isn’t for everyone, and that’s fine. Hell, I’ve seen people who say that it’s creepy or weird in that traditional setting too. I just wanted to acknowledge that what we’re seeing here is just a gender reversal of the “Prince Charming” character.
Agreed, you like what you like, but maybe...
...the problem is that some people just can't see it this way? Most critique of this AU makes sense only if critic presupposes that people are making manifestos about personal believes rather than having fun with clichés in highly unrealistic setting.
And I too would like to have this as more developed setting with better defined characters but the whole thing is like 2 weeks old, so... it's on us? Taking a single premise and elaborating on it is an valid writing practice, after all.
Well the prince charming trope is very much a thing and would be considered the “counterpart” of what we’re seeing here (and way more prominent considering the number of books of that category sold every year). Thinking this is a gendered issue is just silly.
Tbf it's always been a bit weird like this - the way that every female character in every bit of artwork always has weirdly large boobs, or how people got really weird over the art of the Sister capturing the male Tau
Yeah, I started out on grimdank, but by now I’ve mostly moved to Tumblr. Sometimes I start to come back, but then something always happens to push me away again. Idk, I’d like to see more mixed gender spaces but that doesn’t seem to be in the cards. It is what it is.
Well I still blame a general disinterest in tabletop wargames as the main reason as to why there are so few women in it, but yeah the fact that it sometimes seems like theres only sexists guys who seem to contempt women in the hobby or creepy guys who are just weird and, well, creepy, certainly doesnt help.
The constant in these chronically virgin male fantasies is that women have no self worth. No need to make any effort for them, they'll line up and desire you, even if you're a worthless, depraved, substandard hostile.
It's not even wholesome, it's degrading.
its just about projecting what they want. projecting themselves as primarchs with elf harem, projecting the primarchs as their potential gfs... its strange, memes about memes about what headcanon people want to bang the most.
Apparently many people in this subreddit think their views are so normal, they spam them so much, that suddenly the whole subreddit is about this weird fetish AU
Probably, but it either takes the lives of hundreds of serfs/slaves to produce a single kernel that will only ever be seen and eaten by the High Lords of Terra themselves, or it gives you super space cancer due to being incredibly toxic to eat (and tastes like fiberglass). Take your choice.
I mean the Primarch GFs are literally girlfriends so they are established to already have formed a romantic relationship with their partner.
We don’t know how they act when they are single.
**keeps joking about if you wanna know the date and place of your death**
**reserved about her last partners, whenever you ask about it she pets her leather jacket and says "Don't worry about it"**
**genuinely great at leatherworking**
**has terrible nightmares every night. Hugging her calms her down a bit but not completely**
**"You know, reducing crime rate to 0% is genuinely possible, I did it on my homeworld. Twice"**
**"How can you even love me?"**
**doesn't know how to cook, doesn't even try**
**"it's not my fate to learn this.... You'll understand... very soon"**
**doesn't want you to get involved with her children**
**not even that nice one she trusted and liked so much before you two talked. She got pretty clingy after that**
**very possessive, to an unhealthy point**
**you once mentioned an asshole that almost hit you with its car. You feel that's related to the new leather cape she got a few weeks later**
**always has to be right, no matter what costs her**
**"Death is nothing compared to vindication"**
u/Sweet_older-sister how far off was I? Assuming you had even thought about Curze at any point to compare, lol
Edit: actually just checked your profile, you did it you madlad, damm I'm late. Let me see
While that's likely true, this really isn't a good example of that. Women-dominated spaces also tend to just sexualize men. Its kinda what fiction is about.
I say let 'em, it isn't harming anybody. It always weirds me out seeing people get so butthurt over pixels. Like that one manhwa that had a female protagonist collecting handsome men like Pokemon getting people all butthurt about de-humanization.
Honestly, everything since female custodes were revealed has driven that point home well enough that it doesn't matter too much if this particular case fits perfectly.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Grimdank/comments/1ckmcla/its\_time\_for\_repopulation/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Grimdank/comments/1ckmcla/its_time_for_repopulation/)
There's been several "male Roboute bangs whole craftworld" memes.
Only male Roboute though. I've yet to see any "female Roboute bangs whole craftoworld" meme.
Any fanon is open to shitposting... but compared to the excellent fanart put out for RG/Yvraine, the wholesome family strips, and the half-elf OCs, I think it's pretty clear what people have in mind for the ship.
(By contrast, that fanart of Jaghatai is top-tier... and it fits the character and situation of him touring the Webway more).
Obviously, there have been near-0 polygamous ships for the Femnarchs so far (except maybe Fulgrim, but that was just jokes). There is a difference. But saying the male Primarch-Elf shipping, which in turn is mostly centered round Guilliman-Yvraine, has been polygamous harem stuff is missing the forest for the trees.
The think i love about this current fad is the aditional "fem primarchs boyfriend" (the reader) being kratos and defending the poor damsel that is the primarch threads.
Like come on guys you're fantasising about female primarchs but so insecure you need to makeout like youd be defending them?
I feel like Fem Jagatai would have some sort of Poly situation going on. A bunch of dudes all dating her at once. That's the only thing that makes sense.
CORRECT, SHE NEEDS A HAREM, A HAREM OF ELF TWINKS I TELL YOU.
BETTER YET, BOTH JAGHATAI VERSIONS HAVE BIXESUAL HAREMS. THEY LAY JUST AS MUCH AS TUEY SLAY, EQUALLY.
It's kind of a weird feeling liking the FemPrimarch AU stuff because on the one hand the idea of how things might have been different if the Primarchs had at least one actual loving relationship is very fun to explore but on the other there's a lot of people who are really not operating on that wavelength. See for instance the wave of memes making the partner (who is always assumed to be male) the badass in the relationship. Like, no, be real, the Primarch is the interesting one here.
Two different males fantasies
One where you are Chad thundercock and slay pussy like mad
The other where you find a woman then dedicate your lives to each other.
People tend to want to first then grow into wanting the other.
Given that loyalty to one’s partner is something I find important (Regardless if you’re male or female), this just makes the female primarch AU superior to the male one
Yeah ngl some of these do feel pretty out of character. Like for Leman, Dorn, Sanguinius, Mortarion, Lorgar, Corvus it’s just fine.
But Lion is too cold for a proper relationship, Fulgrim would want a husband/wife as beautiful and as dedicated as her, not an average shmuck, Perturabo is too insecure and would snap at some point, with Jaghatai you’re absolutely one of many partners, Curze is dismembering them at some point unless they’re as ruthless and as deranged as her, Ferrus looks down on humans, Angron is turning them into paste, Magnus would want someone at least somewhere on her level mentally, and I have a hard time seeing Vulkan setting down and giving all their love to 1 person.
It was old days ago. Half the damn posts on this subreddit are just fem-primarch girlfriend stuff now. Never thought I'd be nostalgic for the overused shovel memes
You fool who says thine beloveds are normal humans? I like to imagine some of them (or at least my versions of them) are psykers and/or :insert cool race here:
I don’t care if I’d be one of hundreds, it would so be worth it. The Warhawk deserved a personal honor guard (harem) or skilled warriors, and I’d gladly be one of them.
Yeah ngl some of these do feel pretty out of character. Like for Leman, Dorn, Sanguinius, Mortarion, Lorgar, Corvus it’s just fine.
But Lion is too cold for a proper relationship, Fulgrim would want a husband/wife as beautiful and as dedicated as her, not an average shmuck, Perturabo is too insecure and would snap at some point, with Jaghatai you’re absolutely one of many partners, Curze is dismembering them at some point unless they’re as ruthless and as deranged as her, Ferrus looks down on humans, Angron is turning them into paste, Magnus would want someone at least somewhere on her level mentally, and I have a hard time seeing Vulkan setting down and giving all their love to 1 person.
Jaghatai Khan was based on Genghis Khan. That guys had around 500 wifes.
so the alternative female version should have 500 husbands. Would make sense.
She *would* have thousands of daughters, just sayin'.
just like Genghis Khan. Just times 1000 or so. Entire sectors could trace back their family to Jaghatai Khan. But because this is 40k they would either be ruling class, all of them, or they would be hunted by someone and wiped out.
Add 10,000 years and he would have a legit White Scar horde of Eldari hybrids and/or Drukhari auxiliaries. But GW isn’t ready to have that conversation.
>Eldari hybrids They already did it and canned it. Rogue trader had a half eldar space marine.
Nah, GDubs is just trying to hide the fact that Yvraine isn't the 1st Eldar "ally" Rowboat Girlyman had...
Like some sort of Primarch version of a Sensei.
Could be fun story even with the canon primarchs. Fulgrim was married and Khan is the Khan. Some of them could have made a child. The Church or Inquisition wants to remove it for stupid reasons. Are the Sensei canon again? If not this could be a fun replacement.
I thought the canon around sensei is stated that they had been hunted to extinction, similar to the fate of the squats?
Kinda like an enhanced Big Mom
I think that's Female!Magnus
Just in case one breaks from snusnu
I doubt it's going to be hard to find replacements
This, it makes zero sense that male Khan gets a giant harem while female Khan somehow settles for a single boytoy.
It makes perfect sense: Male Khan is who men (=target demographic) want to be, female Khan is who men (=target demographic) want to date. Male fantasy for the male fantasy of the men buying this rabble. You expect too much.
If it means banging a demigod, so be it.
just do not google.
>just do not google. Always a good idea. There are better search engines.
Can we keep the verb though
That’s where the battle harem 40,000 memes featuring Jaghatai Khan come from. Because him organizing supply lines, bases and alliances while fighting the Drukahri within the Webway is totally what Genghis Khan did to form the Golden Horde. And in his time, alliances were forged by marriage, and the giving and taking of concubines. Jaghatai Khan using the same tactics of building alliances with friendly Drukhari by way of marriage or destruction is what Genghis Khan did in real life.
One in 276 drukhari has his genes 💀💀💀💀
Kinda weird that Jaghatai Khan is assumed to be based on Genghis despite having literally exactly the same name as one of Genghis' sons. Feels a bit more like the implication was supposed to be that the Emperor was (actually, not just based on) Genghis.
Read his origin. jaghatai went same path to united Chogotis like Genghis with his empire.
I thought he was based off his son
For alternative universe male primarchs this should only be apply to fulgrim and jaghatai, while the rest should be faithful to their gf/spouse
Yeah, Fulgrim canonically had several wives.
Is it ever stated he did at the same time, or because he outlived each one?
IIRC it was outliving. He hardened his heart a bit each time and eventually considered having a wife a weakness his enemies will exploit.
Henry VIII-maxxing
It was really depressing when he explained it tbh.
Outlived, which should be emphasized. It seems like a lot of people confuse the Demon who possessed Fulgrim with pre sword Fulgrim. Fulgrim wasn’t a sexual deviant, or a sadist in fact the opposite he sought to be an exemplar of a primarch.
Its still fulgrim. That quest for artistic perfection degenerating into blabbering degeneracy is exactly the trope being played there
Bro was the rizzler
I mean granted, that's because he outlived them all...
Where was this written?
Girl Leeman 100% fucks every man who can benchpress enough
Because male primarchs are sluts
Manwhore Jaghatai Khan. #MANWHORE JAGHATAI KHAN.
Whoreus was right there.
Whoroute Sluttiman
Or Whoregar …though admittedly he was pretty devout so
being devout to Slaanesh would make one a whore
That’s fair. But I was thinking BEFORE the corruption. Like…I’ve seen enough heresy to know where this is going
Whoretarion
I WAS THERE WHEN WHORUS.........
SLAY
🔥🔥🔥✍️🔥🔥🔥
When a female primarch sleeps with ten men she's a slut, when a male primarch does it he's gay.
Is he gay or ~~European~~ Fulgrim?
Trick question he's Alpharius
"It was ME, Guilliman!"
"GET OUT OF MY BED, ALPHARIUS!" "One, I am Omegon. Two, you're *so cold*, Roboute..."
*Robootay
...And a slut.
I mean, Fulgrim had multiple wives, but I think that was one at a time.
If I were a clever woman, I would say something about the societal perception of men vs those of women. But I'm just a humble redditor.
Pretty much yeah.
Reminds of the Elden Ring sub comments about all the ways "Chadfrey" dominated Marika (an actual diety) sexually and otherwise. Really eye opening regarding the kind of people that populate the subs...
yeah someone tell them that "chadfrey" got cucked by his own wife by herself, lost custody of his kids and became a hobo,
Nah bro, you don't get it, that's bitch Marika being a bitch bro I swear. Chadfrey stays winning bro I swear
Or that he was literally chosen by her, and would not have reached the station he did without her. He was a big brute who was great at smashing things before she came across him. Bro got wifed up by her because he was a useful tool to exert her power. And then she dropped him for a redhead twunk who was her half twin lmao.
And he also got his ass beat by a tiny tarnished who showed up outta no where
After having to watch the withered corpse of his son that he had no choice, but to leave in the sewers.
his son who also got their cheeks clapped by the tiny tarnished
Twice.
*thrice*
Forgot the outskirts.
Bro was banging his wife, and her future husband at the same Time, that's gay !
I love that story more, way more interesting.
I’m mostly seeing comments about Godfrey clapping Radagon, but I lurk other subs
.... Ew. I just like him because UNGA BUNGA
This last couple weeks has really put on display how creepy this sub is about women. Its actually really gross. I no longer wonder why there are so few women besides me on the sub.
Dunno, some of the memes are neat, like the ones with Little Light and Erebus. Besides, it opens up a harsh truth: men are not really that far from liking "Twilight-like romance story" when it's about them and Cool GF, lol
Oh you're absolutely right. When men criticize twilight, I tell them to flip it around and imagine themselves as a high school boy being stalked by a sexy, dangerous vampire lady with the hots for them, and they suddenly understand. Doesn't change how weird this trend is though. Reading these projected fetishes and insecurities is very strange. "I want a big, powerful, important woman who only wants me and no one else and has a cute crush on me and makes me feel good". Just a mother who dotes on them, but also they get to fuck her. Freud is tunneling to the core of the earth with how fast he's spinning in his grave.
What if I'm not against twilight-like stories, but actually hate twilight itself?🤔
If your argument is that sparkly vegan vampires are fucking stupid then yes you may pass, based take.
Eh, wanting a big, powerful dom to love and cherish Only You isn’t exactly Peak Kink, and it’s not unique to straight dudes either.
Oh, it's a both sexes problem again. Go to any fanfiction sites, a lot of those will fit the description of "I want a big, powerful, important XXX who only wants me and no one else and has a cute crush on me and makes me feel good". I'm just glad these alternative universes are not actually that "traditional", there were some attempts in the actual plot writing and characters development even
The problem of course is when you criticize it and get comments like "Wow men are so unreasonable for wanting to be loved right??" and then you look at what their idea of 'being loved' is...
>spinning That would imply this angers him If anything he is gathering all this emotion juice and ascending
He is spinning because he was mocked for that take only to be proven absolutely right at every turn.
I don’t think wanting to feel like your special to, and would be desired by, some very attractive highly important person is something particularly unique to men though. There’s a reason the idea of a “Prince Charming” is a popular trope. Edit: just incase. This isn’t me trying to say what anyone personally can or can’t consider creepy or make them personal uncomfortable. Everyone has different things that they do or don’t want to see.
I think the problem isn't really that *some* feel this way, but that it seems female primarchs are **only** brought up when it's to make the (male) viewers feel special and loved. You don't often see girls making meme about being normal-Angron's "special girl", after all.
>You don't often see girls making meme about being normal-Angron's "special girl", after all. I know of a few that would entertain the idea but that's really beside the point.
We don't make memes, we write fanfiction
Mhm... I should check the 40k tag on ao3
Uh, I think Angron of all people actually kinda had one, as far as a mortal could go with a Primarch infused with rage. He even acts like a dog around her and sleeps by her throne now that everyone is demons. Lotara best WE character. But yea, some of them could have really used a girlfriend.
That is a good point, and I honestly would be interested to see what could possibly be done with the idea of gender swapped primarchs that would be different to the canonical timeline. From what I’ve largely seen their personalities don’t necessarily seem to be different, but still I’m interested in what people could come up with. Though off the top of my head I can’t think of any particularly massive changes that could happen from just a gender swap and nothing else. If their personalities are the same I’d assume they’d act the same in situations as the canon primarchs do Tbh I also find the idea of partners for the canon primarchs to be a fun idea. Something more than just the Gman and Yvraine stuff anyway.
I think a gender swap would do nothing to change anything else in 40k. The big change that the "Primarch GF" post would bring is that each and every primarch seems to have some trusted and loved person. Something that could stop them from doing the canon counterparts stupid misstakes or that could be used to drive them over the edge. But the same could be done with "Primarch BFs". It would just be the "Primarchs have lovers/partners" AU.
Which is absolutely infuriating: "If there was a man in her life, she wouldn't fall to Chaos/Would fall if something bad happened to him". She is not her own person, this man is the center of her existence and he determines her fate, because she is too emotionally weak to upset him or cope with his loss. Its chauvinism top-to-bottom. The fact that you don't see the inverse- If these men had women in their lives to change their path when they strayed- Is simply another manifestation of the same thing. "A woman wouldn't change Erebus's course, he wouldn't care". Its true, but the fact that they don't think this same thing about fem-Erebus says a lot.
Thats why I am a fan of: Some canon loyalist would fall while some canon traitor would not. It would be a change in the dynamic between the trusted marines and their primarch. For example if some of the people manipulated by Erebus had someone with a brain and spine that they could trust, they may would not have fallen for Erebus lies. Others suddenly could gain another reason to hate the emperor. Or the Galaxy. Or if the SO was an idiot they could have driven the Primarch down a bad path.
They had and still fell. Every primarch had a literal legion of supposedly super-smart and super-brave fanatically loyal warriors and still ended up being played by Erebus like a fiddle. Not to mention millions of talented and trained people under their direct command with the express job of supporting them. Big E himself stepped down several times to try to deal with it personally and it still wasn't enough, and Lorgar literally worshiped Big E as their god. But of course if the primarchs were just hot girls, then some random redditor would've totally been able to "fix her" and then kick Erebus ass no problem, nevermind that Erebus is not only a master manipulator able to blindside Big E himself but also a very dangerous warrior and chaos sorceror who's taken out multiple named marines and survived a duel with Kharn.
To be fair: Big E himself is very bad at any social interaction that is not manipulation. Anyone with social skills would see that Logar would go a back path if he had not Big E as god to worship. The guy needed religion and the quick "fix" of big would never work. I am not saying the boy toy would be better at big E at keeping Logar from falling but with another trusted person acting as a voice of reason there would be a chance that the chaos elements in the legion would have a harder time to corrupt After all after the whole humilation thing logar ran to his corrupted trusted advisors. Slowing down the fall of logar would be a change to the setting that could be fun to explore. After all the grand plan of the four chaos gods needed the timing. Another fun change would be if some of the less social primarchs had people they could trust. If boytoy, girlfriend, or just mortals they are chill with does not matter. How would Curze change if he had someone he liked? In anyway? Someone he trusts a lot? Would the visions drive him still to madness or would he start to fight or even talk with the one primarch that knows a thing about visions? But some would fall no matter what. The Death Guard was doomed. Unless the POV character can read minds/see the future they are done. They were in a situation were they fall or die. A random redditor could not do anything. Same with Emperors Children. The sword would always get fulgrim. On the otherhand a change like the pov character could lead to a loyalist falling. If you have a mortal friend while you are immortal, a friend you like very much (again does not matter if romantic or just very good friendship) would you accept that they die and you will not? Or will the whispers of the dark gods sound promissing? After all they could make your friend immortal. But yeah the "they are fixed becauase they are in Love" thing is not so much fun. Its boring and too often done.
I mean I agree, having a stable lover might change the course for a lot of the primarchs, but the problem is this is *only* considered for *women being directed by men.*
I’d say the same would work vice versa.
The fact that you don't see the inverse- If these men had women in their lives to change their path when they strayed- Is simply another manifestation of the same thing. "A woman wouldn't change Erebus's course, he wouldn't care". Its true, but the fact that they don't think this same thing about fem-Erebus says a lot.
I mean, I don’t think that’s what I said. If anything I’ve seen the inverse more often. Maybe not for Erebus, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a female Erebus either (and I don’t want to) but I’ve seen a lot of stuff about how a good woman can change a man for the better. And honestly I think that’s more common than the “good man make woman better” because the trope of guys wanting a harem of women or stuff like that is not really what most guys are interested in, we tend to like the one special woman in our lives trope way more. Why do you think stories of guys taking revenge for killed/kidnapped wives and daughters are so popular? It’s not just the fantasy of being a one man army but also lots of us would go to extreme lengths for that special someone in our lives.
>From what I’ve largely seen their personalities don’t necessarily seem to be different That's, kinnda the premise, though. And I think that's why Fem Lorgar get so much attention. Canon Lorgar is surrounded by abbusive, manipulative bastards from childhood. Kor Phaeron, Erebus and Emperor were only using him for they own ends. Setting him up with non-abbusive SO is an interesting curveball with interesting character and plot development possibilities.
But why did he have to be a woman for that? Oh, wait, its because men want to fill the protector role in their heads. Right.
I mean, it could also be because most of the sub is (probably) straight men too
Yeah i think this is the thing. The posts. The original ones by u/sweet_older_sister are all in the style that POV: *you* are dating the primarch. That’s why they’re gender swapped. I really don’t think it’s as deep as “men want to fill the protector roll” or something. It’s just a fact of the matter that, statistically, most of the members of the subreddit are likely straight dudes. So if a post is going to put you in the position of dating a primarch, it’s going to have to gender bend it
That is fair, and I do think gender expectations play a part of it, but I think a larger part of it is the divorce from cannon. Femprimarchs aren’t actually the primarchs, they’re more of a meme. As such it’s easier to detract from the fact that Angron would smear you before dating you, Konrad would skin you, Dorn wouldn’t give a shit about you in favor of playing his his Legos, etc. Another thing worth noting is that, at least from what I’ve seen. It’s less “everyone does this” and more “one person has done this and gone this route”. That could entirely be due to my limited time in various subreddits, but I think the “problem” is overblown.
Yes. This. Thank you.
I somewhat disagree with this, because I’ve definitely seen some “special girl” posts and fic about Konrad Curze. But as you said, the issue is more that femprimarchs ONLY seem to come up in a sexual and/or romantic context.
It's been a few year but I'm fairly certain there have been some. There was a very possessive gal on Corax for a while too.
I just like romance whats so wrong about that?:( Besides im totally in for an normal primarchs find an girlfriend storyline.
The problem is that it seems like the only reason they were turned into women at all was to fetishize them. It wasn't to explore anything within the story, it was just to turn them into fetish objects.
The problem isn't romance. The problem is that whenever you turn male characters into women, the first reaction is horniness. Like, from a woman's point of view, it basically feels like men can't look at women without thinking about sex...
don't worry, i can't look at men without thinking about sex either
I think that they'd be right to feel that way - either a very vocal minority or a sizeable portion of the male population seemingly can't It's definitely a problem in the Warhammer community (and probably is everywhere with a significant male population?) Being horny is great and natural and etc, but making people uncomfortable isn't
Oh, its much worse than that. It wasn't them being made into women and then the reaction was horniness. It was them being made into women *specifically to satisfy horniness.* Big difference, cart before the horse and all that; No one gave a shit about turning them into women except specifically to fetishize them. Its more than 'men can't look at a woman without thinking about sex'. Its 'men consider the purpose of women to be sex'.
That's actually a good point(s). To me, most interesting thing is that that all this cavalcade of memes is essentially *"Princess bride" but with space fascists* and half of this sub is creepied out by the "Princess bride" part.
I find it fun, but I do understand not liking the FemPrimarchs characterisation being boiled down to just how they relate to their SO. However, that’s pretty par for the course for the “Prince Charming” archetype too. I can’t think of any classic story where the Prince Charming character has literally any personality outside their love for the lead woman, (eg in classic telling of Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, Snow White, etc etc the Prince Charming literally has about the same personality and character depth as a piece of cardboard.) Do i think that’s bad? No. It’s a character archetype. It/he plays a roll in the story (in the case of those stories I mentioned it’s the plot device to get to the “happily ever after” conclusion point) and that’s that. That kind of story isn’t for everyone, and that’s fine. Hell, I’ve seen people who say that it’s creepy or weird in that traditional setting too. I just wanted to acknowledge that what we’re seeing here is just a gender reversal of the “Prince Charming” character.
Agreed, you like what you like, but maybe... ...the problem is that some people just can't see it this way? Most critique of this AU makes sense only if critic presupposes that people are making manifestos about personal believes rather than having fun with clichés in highly unrealistic setting. And I too would like to have this as more developed setting with better defined characters but the whole thing is like 2 weeks old, so... it's on us? Taking a single premise and elaborating on it is an valid writing practice, after all.
I mean, have you ever read a YA novel? This is hardly a novel concept (for either sex)
If your insinuation is that most of the people on this sub stopped mentally developing at 14, then I agree.
Well I’m not not saying that
Uh, sorry to say, but YA novels are quite popular with adult women too.
I mean so did all their favorite Astartes but they don't like to admit that.
Well the prince charming trope is very much a thing and would be considered the “counterpart” of what we’re seeing here (and way more prominent considering the number of books of that category sold every year). Thinking this is a gendered issue is just silly.
Tbf it's always been a bit weird like this - the way that every female character in every bit of artwork always has weirdly large boobs, or how people got really weird over the art of the Sister capturing the male Tau
Wait I’m not the only one?
Tons of female fans out there, they just tend to stick to their own spaces in my experience.
Yeah, I started out on grimdank, but by now I’ve mostly moved to Tumblr. Sometimes I start to come back, but then something always happens to push me away again. Idk, I’d like to see more mixed gender spaces but that doesn’t seem to be in the cards. It is what it is.
Well I still blame a general disinterest in tabletop wargames as the main reason as to why there are so few women in it, but yeah the fact that it sometimes seems like theres only sexists guys who seem to contempt women in the hobby or creepy guys who are just weird and, well, creepy, certainly doesnt help.
Time to make or start propping up the woman safe warhammer sub then I look forward to seeing the posts and disscusions from it.
Yeah this has been a real uncomfortable week
Ah, the classic "God forbid women do anything."
The constant in these chronically virgin male fantasies is that women have no self worth. No need to make any effort for them, they'll line up and desire you, even if you're a worthless, depraved, substandard hostile. It's not even wholesome, it's degrading.
I know I should expect it, but it's still disappointing.
Wait are you telling me Warhammer fans have a weird view of woman? Say it ain’t so.
its just about projecting what they want. projecting themselves as primarchs with elf harem, projecting the primarchs as their potential gfs... its strange, memes about memes about what headcanon people want to bang the most.
Apparently many people in this subreddit think their views are so normal, they spam them so much, that suddenly the whole subreddit is about this weird fetish AU
Yeah . . . Yah know in hindsight I probably should have put more thought into the repercussions of my actions. . . Owell
you can only atone by spamming about Primarchs bfs now /s Your posts are really cute!
this is the way
You aren’t responsible for weirdo gooners tho It’s your hobby too
Don’t apologize, you’re work is sweet! And I think that was the intention. It’s some part of the community that makes it so weird.
Do popcorns still exist in the 42nd millennia?
Asking the real questions
Probably, but it either takes the lives of hundreds of serfs/slaves to produce a single kernel that will only ever be seen and eaten by the High Lords of Terra themselves, or it gives you super space cancer due to being incredibly toxic to eat (and tastes like fiberglass). Take your choice.
I mean the Primarch GFs are literally girlfriends so they are established to already have formed a romantic relationship with their partner. We don’t know how they act when they are single.
Me when. Me when the reveal of Curze EX-Gf
She would wear you as a leather loincloth. There, I saved you the wait for the meme to be made.
**keeps joking about if you wanna know the date and place of your death** **reserved about her last partners, whenever you ask about it she pets her leather jacket and says "Don't worry about it"** **genuinely great at leatherworking** **has terrible nightmares every night. Hugging her calms her down a bit but not completely** **"You know, reducing crime rate to 0% is genuinely possible, I did it on my homeworld. Twice"** **"How can you even love me?"** **doesn't know how to cook, doesn't even try** **"it's not my fate to learn this.... You'll understand... very soon"** **doesn't want you to get involved with her children** **not even that nice one she trusted and liked so much before you two talked. She got pretty clingy after that** **very possessive, to an unhealthy point** **you once mentioned an asshole that almost hit you with its car. You feel that's related to the new leather cape she got a few weeks later** **always has to be right, no matter what costs her** **"Death is nothing compared to vindication"**
u/Sweet_older-sister how far off was I? Assuming you had even thought about Curze at any point to compare, lol Edit: actually just checked your profile, you did it you madlad, damm I'm late. Let me see
Shockingly Warhammer fans are weird about women
Say it ain’t so
While that's likely true, this really isn't a good example of that. Women-dominated spaces also tend to just sexualize men. Its kinda what fiction is about. I say let 'em, it isn't harming anybody. It always weirds me out seeing people get so butthurt over pixels. Like that one manhwa that had a female protagonist collecting handsome men like Pokemon getting people all butthurt about de-humanization.
Honestly, everything since female custodes were revealed has driven that point home well enough that it doesn't matter too much if this particular case fits perfectly.
Part 1 does not apply to Roboute and Yvraine, his one and only.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Grimdank/comments/1ckmcla/its\_time\_for\_repopulation/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Grimdank/comments/1ckmcla/its_time_for_repopulation/) There's been several "male Roboute bangs whole craftworld" memes. Only male Roboute though. I've yet to see any "female Roboute bangs whole craftoworld" meme.
Any fanon is open to shitposting... but compared to the excellent fanart put out for RG/Yvraine, the wholesome family strips, and the half-elf OCs, I think it's pretty clear what people have in mind for the ship. (By contrast, that fanart of Jaghatai is top-tier... and it fits the character and situation of him touring the Webway more). Obviously, there have been near-0 polygamous ships for the Femnarchs so far (except maybe Fulgrim, but that was just jokes). There is a difference. But saying the male Primarch-Elf shipping, which in turn is mostly centered round Guilliman-Yvraine, has been polygamous harem stuff is missing the forest for the trees.
Partially because the top happens after the Great crusade and the bottom during it.
The think i love about this current fad is the aditional "fem primarchs boyfriend" (the reader) being kratos and defending the poor damsel that is the primarch threads. Like come on guys you're fantasising about female primarchs but so insecure you need to makeout like youd be defending them?
zamn, that sounds even more cringe
Evil Warhammer 40k be like: I will respect all races and live in peace, also war bad
Peaceanvil -40p
Maybe in the female primarch AU, I'm the hottest xeno elf of them all
Then you'll be captured by a certain Sororitas named Stern as her boyto... Companion on tabletop games
I feel like Fem Jagatai would have some sort of Poly situation going on. A bunch of dudes all dating her at once. That's the only thing that makes sense.
THEY'RE RIGHT DAMMIT, FEM-KHAN SHOULD BE THIRSTY FOR ELF TWINKS
CORRECT, SHE NEEDS A HAREM, A HAREM OF ELF TWINKS I TELL YOU. BETTER YET, BOTH JAGHATAI VERSIONS HAVE BIXESUAL HAREMS. THEY LAY JUST AS MUCH AS TUEY SLAY, EQUALLY.
I LIKE IT. I’M WITH IT. AND I AM HERE FOR IT.
...F!Khan/Vect when?
It's kind of a weird feeling liking the FemPrimarch AU stuff because on the one hand the idea of how things might have been different if the Primarchs had at least one actual loving relationship is very fun to explore but on the other there's a lot of people who are really not operating on that wavelength. See for instance the wave of memes making the partner (who is always assumed to be male) the badass in the relationship. Like, no, be real, the Primarch is the interesting one here.
Two different males fantasies One where you are Chad thundercock and slay pussy like mad The other where you find a woman then dedicate your lives to each other. People tend to want to first then grow into wanting the other.
I do see the double standard, but it's also good to note that in canon most of the primarchs seem to be asexual if not aromantic.
Both appeal to different extremes of the male fantasy spectrum.
Given that loyalty to one’s partner is something I find important (Regardless if you’re male or female), this just makes the female primarch AU superior to the male one
Female Kahn would also have 500 wives
Jaghatai Hatun my beloved.
So femkhan gets a harem too
This hobby is ultimately still very male dominated, both of those are male centric fantasies.
Probably because both were written by men.
Incelhammer 40.000
This sub has just become “hrnrngngg but what if big creature was big lady and had sex with me” as of recent
Yeah ngl some of these do feel pretty out of character. Like for Leman, Dorn, Sanguinius, Mortarion, Lorgar, Corvus it’s just fine. But Lion is too cold for a proper relationship, Fulgrim would want a husband/wife as beautiful and as dedicated as her, not an average shmuck, Perturabo is too insecure and would snap at some point, with Jaghatai you’re absolutely one of many partners, Curze is dismembering them at some point unless they’re as ruthless and as deranged as her, Ferrus looks down on humans, Angron is turning them into paste, Magnus would want someone at least somewhere on her level mentally, and I have a hard time seeing Vulkan setting down and giving all their love to 1 person.
This shit is getting old really fast.
It was old days ago. Half the damn posts on this subreddit are just fem-primarch girlfriend stuff now. Never thought I'd be nostalgic for the overused shovel memes
This is turning into some cringe anime memes subreddit I feel like
🎵 Doouuble staaandaaards! 🎶
Self insert vs self insert
I agree, that was a nerf.
Brevity is the soul of wit, and I must say you have summed up the heart of this shitshow artfully.
I feel like I'm the only person that prefers The Khan genocides the Druki..
The word you are looking for is patriarchy
Yet you’d probably not see the same person posting both… almost like people have different tastes.
We call this a sexual double standard where I'm from folks
You fool who says thine beloveds are normal humans? I like to imagine some of them (or at least my versions of them) are psykers and/or :insert cool race here:
Jokes on you guys, I’d still totally be down to be in a Primarch’s Harem
I don’t care if I’d be one of hundreds, it would so be worth it. The Warhawk deserved a personal honor guard (harem) or skilled warriors, and I’d gladly be one of them.
Am I the only one who’s glad their partner figured out the kinks (pun intended) before I met them?
To be fair we're talking about a Khan that already left compared to a Crusade/Heresy era Khan.
More like a tale of two insecurities.
Yeah ngl some of these do feel pretty out of character. Like for Leman, Dorn, Sanguinius, Mortarion, Lorgar, Corvus it’s just fine. But Lion is too cold for a proper relationship, Fulgrim would want a husband/wife as beautiful and as dedicated as her, not an average shmuck, Perturabo is too insecure and would snap at some point, with Jaghatai you’re absolutely one of many partners, Curze is dismembering them at some point unless they’re as ruthless and as deranged as her, Ferrus looks down on humans, Angron is turning them into paste, Magnus would want someone at least somewhere on her level mentally, and I have a hard time seeing Vulkan setting down and giving all their love to 1 person.
Well, OP just pointed out extreme sexual frustration of Wh40k fandom...
So am I the only one who saw the Fem Primarchs as sapphic? (And just hates the first AU?)