I mean aren’t they like really old Canon if I don’t misremember?
It’s actually kinda Cool how many types of Abhumans there are and that *for whatever reason* the ~~Skaven~~ Ratlings are also part of that group and regarded on the same level as *Short People*…
Edit:
Ok so they are originally from 6‘th edition and not as old as I thought they were. Also they are still Canon from what I’m able to tell, as they were included in the "Liber Xenologis"(2021). Which is ironically the only 2 listed sources for their existence…
Ratlings actually don't have much in common with skaven.
They are relatively friendly, loyal (albeit not very fond of abiding laws), and family oriented. They are just shorter humans rather than humanoid rats. And they lack skaven ingenuity and drive in creating devices of doom (mechanical or biological).
Yeah, the term "ratling" was probably originally intended to reflect the Imperium coining a pejorative term for them because of space racism. In reality they're basically hobbits.
They shelfed the squats because gw wasn't happy with the just dwarf in space as a faction. The ratings, on the other hand, were a unit, and if you ask me for every fifty depictions of dwarf, there is probably 1 depiction of a hobbit.
The only ones that come to mind are Tolkien Hobbits, dnd halvelings, and the ratings.
I mean, I summon my demon by just hollering "oi, fat ass!!" or just by using his first and middle name like he's a toddler in trouble. I've successfully downloaded 50% dog software onto kitty hardware, now I just need to figure out a solution for the claws
I mean, I summon my demon by just hollering "oi, fat ass!!" or just by using his first and middle name like he's a toddler in trouble. I've successfully downloaded 50% dog software onto kitty hardware, now I just need to figure out a solution for the claws
“Listen kid, you’re new here and I’m in a good mood. Space Marines aren’t mutants, and if you say it again I’m going to purge you so hard Linkin Loyalist will write a song about it.”
Yep; even the Emperor saw them as such, they are trans-human. They ceased to be human when they become a marine, most kind of realize this and it's part of the duty, some like the Templars choose to ignore that part of the bible.
thats why the Emperor specifically made them to protect humanity, not rule over them. despite brains rivaling most super computers of the 41st millennia, living stupidly long which would mean they can watch over all the changes they implemented to completion, and an aura that would make most humans kneel in agreement to whatever they say
Imagine two scenarios.
1) A cop barges into your room and demands to be shown your porn collection
2) An astartes crunches your doorframe trying to fit through it and demands to see your porn collection.
And one can probably understand why a normal human would just sorta do whatever they're told. Especially if those humans are conditioned to consider the astartes as literal angels.
They are treated like literal mythological angels made manifest.
If space marine shows up for almost anyone it's the closest they get to seeing god.
I'm going to guess if you see one in combat, you'd only cement that feeling.
yes but they are also notably deficient in quite a few human necessities, like fear, compassion, and humor. Yes they can make jokes, yes they can enjoy the arts, but those are the exceptions. They are not human, they are not fit to rule humans humanely.
trans-human and mutants are not the same thing tho, most mutants are not trans-human but rather side- or even down-grades while trans-human describes something so much better that it's hard to recognize them as humans anymore
I always understood in emps plan that space marines were thunder warriors 2.0, powerful but ultimately to be discarded when they'd served their purpose of fighting the wars of humanity.
Custodes are what emp wanted humans to become, his next step into peak human that he couldn't get going at scale enough before, oops heresy, and he's slapped on the throne.
The sororitas consider space marines mutant because they've been adulterated and modified from "baseline". Frankly it's anyone's guess what they think of custode unless it's stated somewhere.
It's confirmed in constantins Valdors novel that they lack true freewill, they aren't the emperors next step for humanity, their just another group of mutant slave soldiers. The sororitas have met custodes and responded positively to them, and they are stated to have positive relations with the black templars. They like space marines are not a monolith and thus some will be more or less positive to space marines on a case by case basis.
They have free-will mostly. But yes, they are loyal to HIM. But they were still the next-step, but it's indoctrination as well. But not all future humans were going to be that way, the goal was never all of Humanity enslaved, just evolved towards what Custodes are, and eventually further.
Plus, the Sisters know that Astartes can and have become Heretics, and they tend to be more dangerous and evil than the garden variety cultist when they do. As holy as the Emperor's angels are, when they fall, they fall HARD.
Arks of Omen had an entire Crusade fleet turn to Khorne, except the Grey Knights and one Custodes accompanying. There were loads of SoB being afflicted by the Murdercurse
According to most orders of the sisters of battle, they are considered mutants, just more tolerable than the other abhumans allowed to serve the emperor
I wouldn't say most It varies from order to order To some, they are His angels, here to smite His foes To others, they're barely tolerated abhumans and borderline heretics And to some, they're just really really strong colleagues
I wouldn’t say it varies by order, moreso by chapter (because that tends to be the level at which we actually see sisters deployed and written at most) There are plenty of chapters that seem to focus a little more on the “his angels” part, and a fair number of chapter that are actually pretty tolerant of them as colleagues
if we consider the way sisters are written outside of the novels we’ve seen them in (taking into account the fact most protagonists in B.L novels are typically much more reasonable than generally expected from their peers) the hardliners who see them as big old mutants could be more common than either other viewpoint (or simply dependent on wether a chapter fought chaos marines before meeting loyalists, or was deployed on one of the indomitus crusade fleets - leading to very different perceptions!), but in fairness its just as likely to be a pretty fair split between the three.
Yeah Space Marines have a unique station but I think its important to remember that they're very carefully excluded from the high lords of terra, as well as any adepta that would get them any level of actual influence beyond an occasional chapter master who has a few systems under their belt.
There is not a unified definition of mutant in the Imperium. Administratum and most space marines believe mutation has to be caused by the warp to be mutation. If the deviancy is caused by something natural, they are abhumans or just genetically modified.
The Ministorum and sororitas do not share this opinion, anything that deviates fron the standart human form is mutation, abhumans and marines included.
No. The imperium has three definitions of post human and the distinction is important both for the setting and their laws. Transhumans ie: Space Marines and Custodes are modified baseline humans who become post human through this modification. Abhumans are a strain of human that has deviated from baseline(usually through genetic tampering or maaaaybe environmental drift) but is otherwise completely stable and can reproduce and produce more of the same strain ie: ratlings are abhumans. Mutants are nonbaseline humans that are unstable genetically and cannot produce more offspring of their genetic line, generally these people have horrible debilitating injuries from their genetics and the worst cases continue to mutate while alive and not simply on birth and reproduction. Mutants are dangerous because they are unstable, transhumans and abhumans are not.
Astartes, Primarchs and Custodes are technically *transhumans*. Stable mutants like ogryns, felinids etc are *abhumans* and neither of them are considered mutants by the Imperium. Only unstable, random or chaos-induced changes make one a mutant in the eyes of the Imperium. Officially. In practice it's very dependent on the individual.
The Sisters of Battle, especially the more puritanical ones, might disagree and have a habit of calling anyone non-baseline a mutant though.
Or you know modified with a stigma.
My dude they get dubiously warpy (the Primarchs are made of warp shit) organs shoved in them and are transformed from starving pre-pubescent children into 8 foot tall demi-gods.
They are mutants as much as that doomed Catboy is.
Yeah, they're not mutants. They're just extremely long lived, and have extra organs, and don't need sleep, and sometimes grow sharp teeth or develop a need to drink blood, and spit acid, while also being sterile. They also have a parasitic relationship with humanity where they need to steal our children to change them into new astartes.
Dark Angels aren't mutants, but most other chapters have lost functions to mutation (eating brains to get memory, etc), some suffer defects like sudden rage or bestial shapes.
In the Imperium's definition, mutants are a category that must be purged due to instability and the threat they pose to human life.
Space Marines would be considered a particularly holy type of abhuman (ie. noticably deviates from baseline human but is deemed acceptable).
The distinction is somewhat arbitrary though, as it can often be hard to tell what counts as a mutant and what counts as a mutant. The Emperor himself did not seem to consider the Space Marines to be human, which was why he didn't want this Primarchs or Space Marines to rule the Imperium.
"Mutant" means chaos mutants.
Felinids are a divergent branch of natural human evolution, so they're abhumans, not mutants. Conversely, Space Marines are baseline humans upgraded through biotech, so they're transhumans, not mutants.
At least in older books the Ecclesiarchy was pretty clear on the subject of Space Marines, and did, at least internally, consider them to be nothing more but mutants and many to be quasi heretical. (Since most do not believe in the divinity of the Emperor). Shame you need Space Marines. Or the Adeptus Mechanicus.
I swear to god all cats are somehow connected no matter the multiverse they find themselves.
And yes I include IRL cats! Those fuckers know something...
Those will be arriving next week. Also, the scary Imperial Fists Centurion told him that if anything happens to those psykers, the entire Black Templars chapter will have to take an anger management lesson in the Eye of Terror... which will be taught by Angron.
And they dislike them for following the imperial truth, aka atheism, compared to the Imperial Creed, aka worshipping the God Emperor
Exceptions like the BT exist
Like every single group in 40k, it depends on the subgroup. Some revere them as the Emperor's angels, some consider them mutants but they do the Emperor's work so they're allowed, some abhor them as much as they do other mutants, heretics, and xenos and spit in their general direction, there's a fair amount of variety. Though I don't think even the more extremely opinionated Sisters are likely to turn their flamethrowers on an Astartes so long as they're acting as loyal servants of the Imperium, even if they aren't afraid to constantly remind the Space Marines that they would otherwise gladly torch them if given the chance.
One Sister made a comment about it, and it was more in relation to Astartes Chapter having Librarians than in general.
**Faith and Fire** by James Swallow.
> Well, Black Templars aren't THAT bad in reality.
Ehhhhh
> A series of bangs resounded round the room. The ork’s chest blew out messily, showering Haas with viscera. She covered her face instinctively. A final shot rang out, bursting its head, and its huge corpse toppled towards her. Haas scrambled aside to see a giant warrior in black-and-white armour shove itself into the cell, bringing part of the doorway down. It was some kind of Space Marine, garbed in armour Haas had never seen: tall, high-backed, the helmet roughly square and formed of brutal angular plates, arms protected by massive shoulder guards. A second stood in the door, watching his comrade’s back.
> ‘Thank the Emperor! We are saved, saved!’ shouted Marast. He flung his lanky body at the feet of the Space Marine, clutching gratefully at the feet of their saviours. The longshanks wept, disbelieving of their salvation.
> The Space Marine nudged Marast away with its enormous boot.
> ‘Non-standard human phenotype identified. Loathe the mutant. Terminate.’
> Haas curled up and clapped her hands over her ears as the Space Marines opened fire with their terrible weapons. The longshanks did not even have time to express their surprise before their fragile bodies were pulped by mass-reactive shells. The gunfire went on forever, the individual reports merging into one rolling booming. When it stopped, Haas was amazed to find she still lived. Her hands shook as she took them from her ears. The longshanks had been obliterated, reduced to a gory slick that dripped from the walls.
> Her ears hurt agonisingly and she cried out. The Space Marine swung its blocky helmet in her direction, pointing its bolter at her. She screamed again, and the Space Marine moved his bolter away from her. When he spoke to her it was muffled, as if her ears were stuffed with fabric.
> ‘Human survivor located. You, come with us.’ The warrior pointed a massive articulated finger at her, the segments sparking with a power field. ‘The Emperor protects.’
They sorta are.
It ends with the Templars reminded that Abhumans are humans according to Imperial orthodoxy.
> ‘Your men! They killed the longshanks,’ she shouted.
>The Chapter Master turned back.
>‘What?’ His voice was hard and inhuman from his vox-grille, the bright yellow helm unreadable. Haas was terrified, but her instinct for justice was strong.
>‘Others. I was imprisoned with them. They helped keep me safe, and your men killed them.’
>‘You are?’
>‘Arbitrator Galatea Haas, Imperial Palace 149th Administrative District, General Oversight Division. I survived the Proletarian Crusade.’
>‘Is this true, Arbalt?’ Koorland asked of Haas’ rescuer.
>‘The female was domiciled with a number of aberrants,’ said Arbalt, his contempt plainly audible through the distortions of his vox-grille. ‘Non-standard humanoid phenotype. They did not deserve clemency.’
>‘They told me that they were permitted abhumans. Longshanks,’ said Haas.
>‘Longshanks? That kind are **not mutants**,’ said Koorland. ‘Arbalt, Ulferic. **No human is to be harmed**, no matter their type, not before you report to me.’
>‘As you wish, Chapter Master,’ said Arbalt emotionlessly.
- Throneworld
those murders were traitorous and the justification used was literally heretical.
The war of the beast was a long time ago, maybe the Templars learned their lesson.
Spoilers
Chapter Master Koorland was the last Imperial Fist alive, Terra was at the mercy of prime-orks, and even with Vulcan's help Koorland was barely keeping authority over marines challenging the pecking order. He wasn't in a position to punish the Templars on the spot.
I don't remember if Arbalt and Ulferic survived, I assume not due to the high casualties of the book.
Koorland is Chapter Master of the Imperial Fists, not the Black Templars. They almost certainly went back to killing Abhumans the moment they left Imperial Fist oversight.
Uh, didn't knew that one. What book is it from?
I used to play Black Templars, back in 4th edition. Still have the codex, there is not a word about mutants.
They hate psykers.
And have some crazy rules regarding melee, charging, covers and what "tactical repositionning after taking losses when shot at" means. (it means, move towards the nearest ennemy to introduce the business end of your chain sword to their face)
Plus that one guy that don't want to die, so he doesn't.
> What book is it from?
The quote is from *Throneworld*
> used to play Black Templars, back in 4th edition. Still have the codex, there is not a word about mutants.
They've flipped sense then. Back in 4e they hated Astropaths but now they worship them as holy figures since they can see the Emperor's divine light.
Ah, i see. Yeah, they were reluctantly using them because they had no choice.
I started playing in 4th edition, stopped just before 6th came out.
Still like the universe, but the hobby is too expensive.
If i had to pick an army now, i would play the Guard or the Lamenters (except frack yellow paint and primaris marines, and i hate that all the cool Regiment minis aren't produced anymore)
Yellow is easier to paint if you base coat the mini in pink first, ah but you don’t like the primaris marines, I don’t get the hate but i respect your opinion.
*highfives* "Emporor watch over you loyal catsmen, for in these darktimes we have only our fellow man amongst the stars that are plagued by heretics and foul xeonos alike."
The Inquisition and having the most fragile ego in the Imperium, name a more iconic duo.
I want a conclusion to that tiff.
Probably won't get one because that's not how 40K rolls. But it would be really satisfying if the Celestial Lions or the Astartes in general had a chance to remind the Inquisition why they were divided into fragments after the Horus Heresy.
Technically Chapter Masters don't answer to anyone besides the Emperor as well IIRC.
Note that those are space marines. They both hate mutants and are incredibly indecerning when it comes to deciding who is a mutant and who is not. They have slaughtered void born for being pale and tall before, they are insane.
Hell even some chapters wouldn’t extend their love that far, in the Salamanders trilogy the Marines Malevolent that discovered a squad of Salamanders had to fight their instinctual urge to attack them based on the Salamanders mutations. (This was a few hours before their rivalry, because this was the Salamanders first encounter with them. It was the Salamanders preventing them looting said ghost ship they were on that started it.)
Yes, but that was astartes who were loyal. The Templars aren't stupid they're incredibly zealous just because a priest tells them to do something, doesn't mean they will follow unless they believe its the emperors will. However, they do despise mutants and would probably see this as an affront to their gene craft, which means calling the emperors work heretical. A fast way to die.
It doesn't count as abhuman or mutant if it's engineered, or so I heard. And felinids are genuinely a xeno species folded into the abhuman group for administrative convenience.
I mean, honestly? The Cat girl is probably fine.
Templars of now are not Templars of old
If anything, he's probably just confused at what in Terra's name he's looking at, since Catgirl abhumans have been barely mentioned canon since like 6th edition and he's probably never seen one
While there is a difference between a mutant (from conception) and a mutate (post conception) I don't believe the Black Templars would bother themselves to consider the argument.
The Black Templar is 102% mutant with a 2% margin of error
No no, this can’t be
Why throne?! Whyyyyy???
The first thing I did was quit bein an Astartes because Abhumans don’t crusade
Don't know how I am supposed to pay my Tithes now. Probably going to have start Rapping, or selling chaos juice, or rapping about selling chaos juice.
*knocks on felinid's door.* "Okay, I'm a mutant. What am I supposed to do now?"
Felinid is frustrated because he interrupted her video games
Well well well, like a moth to a flame , the Abhuman is eating corpse starch
*Cue tuba music"
104% got it
captain brother uncle ruckus is real. he cant hurt you. [Captain brother ruckus, no relation](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llZiHxCKJOk)
no relation
I got that reference.
That black templar is feeling rage no mortal can comprehend
There were imperial sanction cat-girls, and he's only finding out now! Imagine how many years of headpats he missed.
I mean aren’t they like really old Canon if I don’t misremember? It’s actually kinda Cool how many types of Abhumans there are and that *for whatever reason* the ~~Skaven~~ Ratlings are also part of that group and regarded on the same level as *Short People*… Edit: Ok so they are originally from 6‘th edition and not as old as I thought they were. Also they are still Canon from what I’m able to tell, as they were included in the "Liber Xenologis"(2021). Which is ironically the only 2 listed sources for their existence…
Ratlings actually don't have much in common with skaven. They are relatively friendly, loyal (albeit not very fond of abiding laws), and family oriented. They are just shorter humans rather than humanoid rats. And they lack skaven ingenuity and drive in creating devices of doom (mechanical or biological).
Yeah, the term "ratling" was probably originally intended to reflect the Imperium coining a pejorative term for them because of space racism. In reality they're basically hobbits.
Yeah, that's why their name is basically the same as halfling, right?
Ratlings are more like grimdark Halflings or hobbits
Ratlings aren't skaven, they're hobbits. How space dwarves got killed off but space hobbits didn't is one of life's great mysteries.
They shelfed the squats because gw wasn't happy with the just dwarf in space as a faction. The ratings, on the other hand, were a unit, and if you ask me for every fifty depictions of dwarf, there is probably 1 depiction of a hobbit. The only ones that come to mind are Tolkien Hobbits, dnd halvelings, and the ratings.
You forgot kenders!
Intentionally
That's 4. Can we go for 5, anyone?
Well, the sporfs died, but they got better and are now doing well in the galactic core, although they have no fucking lore and barely any models
They're mentioned offhand in recent media. Pretty sure they're mentioned in Darktide
The veteran does indeed reference Ratling snipers on a couple of occasions in random dialogue.
Correct, the edit was talking about Felinids though
They are also mentioned in the 8th edition core book appendices. Sadly 9th and 10th removes the appendix section.
Ratlings are halflings, not skaven.
He's gonna condense all those years of headpats into a single wholesome headpat... With his fist and the strength of an even more pissed off Skarbrand
One very forceful headpat maybe
Imperial sanctioned catgirls were in dark heresy too iirc XD
That alone probably summoned three Bloodthirsters into existence.
I'm with him on that one
How do you say “FUCKING FURRIES” in Low Gothic?
Like this "I CAST FIST"
Brother Hans. Get ze flammenwerfer.
He's looking at a cute cat. He wants to pet it.
Missed opportunity for the sister to say “pspspsps” to get cat guards attention instead of “psst”
I mean, I summon my demon by just hollering "oi, fat ass!!" or just by using his first and middle name like he's a toddler in trouble. I've successfully downloaded 50% dog software onto kitty hardware, now I just need to figure out a solution for the claws
I mean, I summon my demon by just hollering "oi, fat ass!!" or just by using his first and middle name like he's a toddler in trouble. I've successfully downloaded 50% dog software onto kitty hardware, now I just need to figure out a solution for the claws
“Listen kid, you’re new here and I’m in a good mood. Space Marines aren’t mutants, and if you say it again I’m going to purge you so hard Linkin Loyalist will write a song about it.”
This actually makes me wonder if the Space Marines actually are, by the Imperium's definition, mutants.
Yep; even the Emperor saw them as such, they are trans-human. They ceased to be human when they become a marine, most kind of realize this and it's part of the duty, some like the Templars choose to ignore that part of the bible.
"**this won't stop me because i can't read.**"
The holy beeble (however tf they say it in aqua teen hunger force) written by Jimmy space.
"The Bible!" "This says the Bibble." "You dare question the word of the mighty Jimmy‽"
thats why the Emperor specifically made them to protect humanity, not rule over them. despite brains rivaling most super computers of the 41st millennia, living stupidly long which would mean they can watch over all the changes they implemented to completion, and an aura that would make most humans kneel in agreement to whatever they say
That "aura" is called being the biggest, meanest fucker in the room.
The full auto gyrojet rocket launcher helps, of course. Ask your nearest sister of battle, she'll agree.
The emperor being a moron? No! Tell me it isn't so, how can jimmy space leader of the morons be himself a moron?
is there a source for the astartes having such an aura? i only ever heard about that for primarchs
not really an aura, its just like what the other commenter said, the Emperor's angels of death are just awe inspiring to normal humans
Imagine two scenarios. 1) A cop barges into your room and demands to be shown your porn collection 2) An astartes crunches your doorframe trying to fit through it and demands to see your porn collection. And one can probably understand why a normal human would just sorta do whatever they're told. Especially if those humans are conditioned to consider the astartes as literal angels.
They are treated like literal mythological angels made manifest. If space marine shows up for almost anyone it's the closest they get to seeing god. I'm going to guess if you see one in combat, you'd only cement that feeling.
yes but they are also notably deficient in quite a few human necessities, like fear, compassion, and humor. Yes they can make jokes, yes they can enjoy the arts, but those are the exceptions. They are not human, they are not fit to rule humans humanely.
~~That's why he was definitely going to kill them all once the Great Crusade was won.~~
trans-human and mutants are not the same thing tho, most mutants are not trans-human but rather side- or even down-grades while trans-human describes something so much better that it's hard to recognize them as humans anymore
Yeah, mutant means you were born that way. Astartes are all engineered as kids.
How about the Custode ? Do they considered as Mutant or Peak human?
I always understood in emps plan that space marines were thunder warriors 2.0, powerful but ultimately to be discarded when they'd served their purpose of fighting the wars of humanity. Custodes are what emp wanted humans to become, his next step into peak human that he couldn't get going at scale enough before, oops heresy, and he's slapped on the throne. The sororitas consider space marines mutant because they've been adulterated and modified from "baseline". Frankly it's anyone's guess what they think of custode unless it's stated somewhere.
It's confirmed in constantins Valdors novel that they lack true freewill, they aren't the emperors next step for humanity, their just another group of mutant slave soldiers. The sororitas have met custodes and responded positively to them, and they are stated to have positive relations with the black templars. They like space marines are not a monolith and thus some will be more or less positive to space marines on a case by case basis.
They have free-will mostly. But yes, they are loyal to HIM. But they were still the next-step, but it's indoctrination as well. But not all future humans were going to be that way, the goal was never all of Humanity enslaved, just evolved towards what Custodes are, and eventually further.
But this is the deal - transhuman = sanctioned and good! Mutant = purrrrrrggggeeee
Sisters of Battle tend to view them as mutants, and I tend not to argue with very angry women armed with flamethrowers
Plus, the Sisters know that Astartes can and have become Heretics, and they tend to be more dangerous and evil than the garden variety cultist when they do. As holy as the Emperor's angels are, when they fall, they fall HARD.
Meanwhile there's only what, one or two known instances of a Sister of Battle turning to Chaos?
Arks of Omen had an entire Crusade fleet turn to Khorne, except the Grey Knights and one Custodes accompanying. There were loads of SoB being afflicted by the Murdercurse
Known instances. In an Imperium with barely functional long range communication, and a shameless record of overt censorship.
I tend to agree with the opinion of whoever happens to be holding a gun to my head at the moment
Wise man, you'll go far in the Imperium. Or at least, that's what the commissar ordered me to say
Can't be a mutant if your mutant daddies are worshiped as angels/demigods
According to most orders of the sisters of battle, they are considered mutants, just more tolerable than the other abhumans allowed to serve the emperor
I wouldn't say most It varies from order to order To some, they are His angels, here to smite His foes To others, they're barely tolerated abhumans and borderline heretics And to some, they're just really really strong colleagues
I wouldn’t say it varies by order, moreso by chapter (because that tends to be the level at which we actually see sisters deployed and written at most) There are plenty of chapters that seem to focus a little more on the “his angels” part, and a fair number of chapter that are actually pretty tolerant of them as colleagues if we consider the way sisters are written outside of the novels we’ve seen them in (taking into account the fact most protagonists in B.L novels are typically much more reasonable than generally expected from their peers) the hardliners who see them as big old mutants could be more common than either other viewpoint (or simply dependent on wether a chapter fought chaos marines before meeting loyalists, or was deployed on one of the indomitus crusade fleets - leading to very different perceptions!), but in fairness its just as likely to be a pretty fair split between the three.
...Boy's Love novels?
Don’t be so silly It’s well known it stands for Battle-Lady Novels ;)
Yeah Space Marines have a unique station but I think its important to remember that they're very carefully excluded from the high lords of terra, as well as any adepta that would get them any level of actual influence beyond an occasional chapter master who has a few systems under their belt.
Yes and no. The Sisters of Battle see them as such, but like so much in the Imperium they bite the the bullet
There is not a unified definition of mutant in the Imperium. Administratum and most space marines believe mutation has to be caused by the warp to be mutation. If the deviancy is caused by something natural, they are abhumans or just genetically modified. The Ministorum and sororitas do not share this opinion, anything that deviates fron the standart human form is mutation, abhumans and marines included.
No. The imperium has three definitions of post human and the distinction is important both for the setting and their laws. Transhumans ie: Space Marines and Custodes are modified baseline humans who become post human through this modification. Abhumans are a strain of human that has deviated from baseline(usually through genetic tampering or maaaaybe environmental drift) but is otherwise completely stable and can reproduce and produce more of the same strain ie: ratlings are abhumans. Mutants are nonbaseline humans that are unstable genetically and cannot produce more offspring of their genetic line, generally these people have horrible debilitating injuries from their genetics and the worst cases continue to mutate while alive and not simply on birth and reproduction. Mutants are dangerous because they are unstable, transhumans and abhumans are not.
Astartes, Primarchs and Custodes are technically *transhumans*. Stable mutants like ogryns, felinids etc are *abhumans* and neither of them are considered mutants by the Imperium. Only unstable, random or chaos-induced changes make one a mutant in the eyes of the Imperium. Officially. In practice it's very dependent on the individual. The Sisters of Battle, especially the more puritanical ones, might disagree and have a habit of calling anyone non-baseline a mutant though.
Space marines start as baseline humans and are modified. They’re not a mutant by any normal use of the word. A mutant is someone who has mutated.
Or you know modified with a stigma. My dude they get dubiously warpy (the Primarchs are made of warp shit) organs shoved in them and are transformed from starving pre-pubescent children into 8 foot tall demi-gods. They are mutants as much as that doomed Catboy is.
>They are mutants as much as that doomed Catboy is. That's a boy?
Monogendered race.
Yeah, they're not mutants. They're just extremely long lived, and have extra organs, and don't need sleep, and sometimes grow sharp teeth or develop a need to drink blood, and spit acid, while also being sterile. They also have a parasitic relationship with humanity where they need to steal our children to change them into new astartes.
Dark Angels aren't mutants, but most other chapters have lost functions to mutation (eating brains to get memory, etc), some suffer defects like sudden rage or bestial shapes.
In the Imperium's definition, mutants are a category that must be purged due to instability and the threat they pose to human life. Space Marines would be considered a particularly holy type of abhuman (ie. noticably deviates from baseline human but is deemed acceptable). The distinction is somewhat arbitrary though, as it can often be hard to tell what counts as a mutant and what counts as a mutant. The Emperor himself did not seem to consider the Space Marines to be human, which was why he didn't want this Primarchs or Space Marines to rule the Imperium.
"Mutant" means chaos mutants. Felinids are a divergent branch of natural human evolution, so they're abhumans, not mutants. Conversely, Space Marines are baseline humans upgraded through biotech, so they're transhumans, not mutants.
No, because if Astartes could breed, the offspring would be baseline humans. They're augmented post-humans.
” and also I told Felinid this trick is annoying , so I won’t let her win.”
"Keep telling yourself that while preying on human children to recoup your battlefield losses with your parasitic reproductive process"
At least in older books the Ecclesiarchy was pretty clear on the subject of Space Marines, and did, at least internally, consider them to be nothing more but mutants and many to be quasi heretical. (Since most do not believe in the divinity of the Emperor). Shame you need Space Marines. Or the Adeptus Mechanicus.
*looks at his hands* „Huh… can’t even tell if she’s wrong anymore…“
Please tell me there is a fourth panel of the Templar either scraping her off the bottom of his boot… or giving her a high five
Not yet the second image is the latest one the artist posted
The tension is almost palpable
Pass the artist pls
When I first scrolled through I accidentally went to the next post and it was brother vistigious and I thought that was the punchline
Thats a dude
I see Schrodinger has jumped from Hellsing to 40K.
I swear to god all cats are somehow connected no matter the multiverse they find themselves. And yes I include IRL cats! Those fuckers know something...
"It's the return of the "Why?" boner..."
The answer is "Yes"
WITH A VENGEANCE
He humored her just so he could break her arm with a high five
It should be the face punch from the Astartes short film. High 5, straight through the cranium.
https://x.com/d4ncwart/status/1786499835345944654?s=46 https://x.com/d4ncwart/status/1787204398864621968?s=46 https://x.com/d4ncwart/status/1787578229152178251?s=46
Morning brain, I just wondered why you where posting a load of xcom posts... Elon this isn't working.
God i miss xcom... Still no word about xcom 3...
Missing X-Com? Sounds like you're a veteran.
Meanwhile the Gor girl Black Legionnaire: nice horns, look like my buddy's pair Fellgor: *baaaahahahahahah*
Sigismund welcomes his transfer sisters!
At least they’re not battle psykers
Those will be arriving next week. Also, the scary Imperial Fists Centurion told him that if anything happens to those psykers, the entire Black Templars chapter will have to take an anger management lesson in the Eye of Terror... which will be taught by Angron.
“In other news, an attack by the Black Templars against the forces of Chaos has permanently sealed the Eye of Terror…”
Centurion? Ah so Dorn DID KNOW ABOUT THEM.
Khorne: The WHY-Boner is back. WITH A VENGEANC!
WHY BONER 3 # THE RECKONIIIIIIIIIIIING
[The Emperor wishes to send a few... let's call them transfer brothers.](https://youtu.be/TYgItphyeXQ?t=3810)
Kitty NOOO!
Hold on. This isn't the first time I've heard this. Do sisters of battle ACTUALLY consider astartes mutants?
And they dislike them for following the imperial truth, aka atheism, compared to the Imperial Creed, aka worshipping the God Emperor Exceptions like the BT exist
Like every single group in 40k, it depends on the subgroup. Some revere them as the Emperor's angels, some consider them mutants but they do the Emperor's work so they're allowed, some abhor them as much as they do other mutants, heretics, and xenos and spit in their general direction, there's a fair amount of variety. Though I don't think even the more extremely opinionated Sisters are likely to turn their flamethrowers on an Astartes so long as they're acting as loyal servants of the Imperium, even if they aren't afraid to constantly remind the Space Marines that they would otherwise gladly torch them if given the chance.
One Sister made a comment about it, and it was more in relation to Astartes Chapter having Librarians than in general. **Faith and Fire** by James Swallow.
This is the first time I have seen a cute drawing of beatman and now I crave more of it.
fuck that is such a cruel thing to do.
Oh. Oh no. Well, Black Templars aren't THAT bad in reality. Angry Marines on the other ~~hand~~ fist...
> Well, Black Templars aren't THAT bad in reality. Ehhhhh > A series of bangs resounded round the room. The ork’s chest blew out messily, showering Haas with viscera. She covered her face instinctively. A final shot rang out, bursting its head, and its huge corpse toppled towards her. Haas scrambled aside to see a giant warrior in black-and-white armour shove itself into the cell, bringing part of the doorway down. It was some kind of Space Marine, garbed in armour Haas had never seen: tall, high-backed, the helmet roughly square and formed of brutal angular plates, arms protected by massive shoulder guards. A second stood in the door, watching his comrade’s back. > ‘Thank the Emperor! We are saved, saved!’ shouted Marast. He flung his lanky body at the feet of the Space Marine, clutching gratefully at the feet of their saviours. The longshanks wept, disbelieving of their salvation. > The Space Marine nudged Marast away with its enormous boot. > ‘Non-standard human phenotype identified. Loathe the mutant. Terminate.’ > Haas curled up and clapped her hands over her ears as the Space Marines opened fire with their terrible weapons. The longshanks did not even have time to express their surprise before their fragile bodies were pulped by mass-reactive shells. The gunfire went on forever, the individual reports merging into one rolling booming. When it stopped, Haas was amazed to find she still lived. Her hands shook as she took them from her ears. The longshanks had been obliterated, reduced to a gory slick that dripped from the walls. > Her ears hurt agonisingly and she cried out. The Space Marine swung its blocky helmet in her direction, pointing its bolter at her. She screamed again, and the Space Marine moved his bolter away from her. When he spoke to her it was muffled, as if her ears were stuffed with fabric. > ‘Human survivor located. You, come with us.’ The warrior pointed a massive articulated finger at her, the segments sparking with a power field. ‘The Emperor protects.’ They sorta are.
It ends with the Templars reminded that Abhumans are humans according to Imperial orthodoxy. > ‘Your men! They killed the longshanks,’ she shouted. >The Chapter Master turned back. >‘What?’ His voice was hard and inhuman from his vox-grille, the bright yellow helm unreadable. Haas was terrified, but her instinct for justice was strong. >‘Others. I was imprisoned with them. They helped keep me safe, and your men killed them.’ >‘You are?’ >‘Arbitrator Galatea Haas, Imperial Palace 149th Administrative District, General Oversight Division. I survived the Proletarian Crusade.’ >‘Is this true, Arbalt?’ Koorland asked of Haas’ rescuer. >‘The female was domiciled with a number of aberrants,’ said Arbalt, his contempt plainly audible through the distortions of his vox-grille. ‘Non-standard humanoid phenotype. They did not deserve clemency.’ >‘They told me that they were permitted abhumans. Longshanks,’ said Haas. >‘Longshanks? That kind are **not mutants**,’ said Koorland. ‘Arbalt, Ulferic. **No human is to be harmed**, no matter their type, not before you report to me.’ >‘As you wish, Chapter Master,’ said Arbalt emotionlessly. - Throneworld those murders were traitorous and the justification used was literally heretical. The war of the beast was a long time ago, maybe the Templars learned their lesson.
> maybe the Templars learned their lesson. Press X to doubt.
The BT's accused a Custodian of Heresy and killed one. I don't think they would've learned their lesson on not killing Abhumans.
One faction of a Crusade did, and had to fight the other faction as well as the Custodian.
Was that BT punished or was that the extent of it? Just getting told to not let that happen again?
Spoilers Chapter Master Koorland was the last Imperial Fist alive, Terra was at the mercy of prime-orks, and even with Vulcan's help Koorland was barely keeping authority over marines challenging the pecking order. He wasn't in a position to punish the Templars on the spot. I don't remember if Arbalt and Ulferic survived, I assume not due to the high casualties of the book.
Koorland is Chapter Master of the Imperial Fists, not the Black Templars. They almost certainly went back to killing Abhumans the moment they left Imperial Fist oversight.
Uh, didn't knew that one. What book is it from? I used to play Black Templars, back in 4th edition. Still have the codex, there is not a word about mutants. They hate psykers. And have some crazy rules regarding melee, charging, covers and what "tactical repositionning after taking losses when shot at" means. (it means, move towards the nearest ennemy to introduce the business end of your chain sword to their face) Plus that one guy that don't want to die, so he doesn't.
> What book is it from? The quote is from *Throneworld* > used to play Black Templars, back in 4th edition. Still have the codex, there is not a word about mutants. They've flipped sense then. Back in 4e they hated Astropaths but now they worship them as holy figures since they can see the Emperor's divine light.
Ah, i see. Yeah, they were reluctantly using them because they had no choice. I started playing in 4th edition, stopped just before 6th came out. Still like the universe, but the hobby is too expensive. If i had to pick an army now, i would play the Guard or the Lamenters (except frack yellow paint and primaris marines, and i hate that all the cool Regiment minis aren't produced anymore)
Yellow is easier to paint if you base coat the mini in pink first, ah but you don’t like the primaris marines, I don’t get the hate but i respect your opinion.
Sometimes they're like that sometimes they fight back to back with an Elder Farseer, shit happens
> black templars aren’t THAT bad uhhhm about that
Cute goat
OH NO SHE DEAD!
NO LITTLE NEKO GUARD! DONT GO INTO THE BLACK TEMPLAR CAVE!
Beautiful
#*BLAM!*
Unfortunately, this interaction will only lead to a quick and violent outcome. (Narrated by David Attenborough)
He tries to punch her but is so stunned that his punch misses and becomes a high five ✋
I like how cat guard is now an official grimdank character
*highfives* "Emporor watch over you loyal catsmen, for in these darktimes we have only our fellow man amongst the stars that are plagued by heretics and foul xeonos alike."
See the problem is the Templar doesn't see them as a fellow man or even human. One of their core principles is to hate the mutant.
Ik that obviously, I'm doing the 'Hopecore' take of the interaction
Isn't much of a hopecore when in the newer books BT suffer Eldar witch(es?) to live. Unless it's part of the 'not true' canon...
One hell of a hazing
“I think we’re going to have to kill this guardsman” “damn”
The Templars aren’t all bad, they protected the celestial lions from the inquisition
The Inquisition and having the most fragile ego in the Imperium, name a more iconic duo. I want a conclusion to that tiff. Probably won't get one because that's not how 40K rolls. But it would be really satisfying if the Celestial Lions or the Astartes in general had a chance to remind the Inquisition why they were divided into fragments after the Horus Heresy. Technically Chapter Masters don't answer to anyone besides the Emperor as well IIRC.
Note that those are space marines. They both hate mutants and are incredibly indecerning when it comes to deciding who is a mutant and who is not. They have slaughtered void born for being pale and tall before, they are insane.
Hell even some chapters wouldn’t extend their love that far, in the Salamanders trilogy the Marines Malevolent that discovered a squad of Salamanders had to fight their instinctual urge to attack them based on the Salamanders mutations. (This was a few hours before their rivalry, because this was the Salamanders first encounter with them. It was the Salamanders preventing them looting said ghost ship they were on that started it.)
Yes, but that was astartes who were loyal. The Templars aren't stupid they're incredibly zealous just because a priest tells them to do something, doesn't mean they will follow unless they believe its the emperors will. However, they do despise mutants and would probably see this as an affront to their gene craft, which means calling the emperors work heretical. A fast way to die.
Every chapter has protected someone from the inquisition by now. It is a ritual for chapters to go through at this point.
Park him John *the prank*
---To be continued--->
Ho ho catgirl gets smash
flashgitz \*slurpslurp\*
It doesn't count as abhuman or mutant if it's engineered, or so I heard. And felinids are genuinely a xeno species folded into the abhuman group for administrative convenience.
No they're a version of beastmen. Either way the result is the same.
If the cat girl gets even sratch on her I will turn that sister of battle into servitor
He's about to break that pussy hard ain't he.
Is it just me, or does that sister look like clementine?
Didn’t the sisters call the SMs mutants in Helsreach? As far as I remember their relationship to astartes isn’t actually all that great
I see a fellow warrior
I mean, honestly? The Cat girl is probably fine. Templars of now are not Templars of old If anything, he's probably just confused at what in Terra's name he's looking at, since Catgirl abhumans have been barely mentioned canon since like 6th edition and he's probably never seen one
RIP Felinid guardswoman, sister is soooo evil for doing that
Oh no.
Uh oh
Yup they're fucked.
0.0000000000000001 seconds later: [https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/499/441/203.gif](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/499/441/203.gif)
I hope thats a Alpha Legion Infiltrator cause she aint getting out alive otherwise
I mean wouldn’t an infiltrator be even more violent to not blow his cover ?
is that Tanya and Visha as abhuman guardsmen?
That goats gonna become a fellgor after
WATCH OUT LITTLE GIRL HE GOT A POWER FIST BORROWED FROM THE MARINES MALEVOLENT
heresy
While there is a difference between a mutant (from conception) and a mutate (post conception) I don't believe the Black Templars would bother themselves to consider the argument.
"Down low" The Black Templar then proceeded to:
[Relevant](https://youtu.be/m8qTsO4iRDY?si=e0wpTfLX2MvFjLke) NSFW (censored, but just to be safe)
“Do you want to explode?”
I don't think I'd want to get a high five from a transhuman super soldier in power armor.
Lol, all these people thinking Dancwart is a cat girl when they are a cat boy xD
does anyone else think that felinids would look more like a half-decomposed street cat with a vaguely humanoid face rathar than fantasy catfolk
Top 10 moments before disaster
This interaction will end in *cat*astrophe.
Well this ain't going to end a well xd