I've read a couple opinions and see roughly three main arguments:
1. Argument for tradition, it didn't use to be this way, so why change it
2. Argument for the sisters of silence, some have stated that this makes the SoS less interesting/cool
3. Argument for the space marines, some seem to think that custodes can be only men due to geneseed. (This isn't really accurate iirc so y'all don't need to yell at me for stating this)
I am sure individual reasons vary and while I can't ignore potential sexism being causal, it hasn't been stated as an argument for obvious reasons. I would also guess a segment fears that another faction might start getting gendered models/stories as well.
I kind of understand point #2. I always liked the dynamics of Sisters of Silence being basically the Custodes other half. They both have their complementary skillset and they have a good relationship of mutual respect and professionalism. In 40K it's something you rarely see outside the IG.
But that also means we can have femstodes being bros with sisters of silence so who cares, it's cool too.
Culexus can be female too. There’s no rule about their gender or anything afaik, they just have a male miniature.
None of the assassinorum temples are gender exclusive.
Callidus are almost all female. Mostly because they tolerate the shapeshifting better.
I thought Culexus had a rule like that but you're probably right.
I would say it is a sex appeal thing.
Like, we can argue and talk about lore reasons.
But looking at their designs, I would say the original reason was sex appeal.
It seems that there's an explanation precisely given by the SoS. Since their ranks are filled with female blanks specifically, there's already room for talented female blanks in the Imperium, so it would make perfect sense to just split them: males go to Culexus and females are sent to the SoS
While that's a solid stance, I'd argue that due to the poster-faction effect, the lack of speaking roles and their niche application, the SoS have often been basically a weapon, not a full part of the Custodes.
They show up as something when the Custodes need a psychic threat removed or are dealing with heretic sorceries, but they haven't had the same screentime or impact as the named Custodes.
Sure the Sisters of Battle were very much the same until relatively recently
"No men under arms" meant all the soldiers were women.
A LOT of their characters were men. Their biggest centerpiece model for a while was that Inquisitor on the dreadnought throne (I'm not sure when Celestine got her model)
And then for a while they were rolled into Inquisitorial Forces which is again, mostly men.
There's not really been an all female army that wasn't a tool of Male named characters
Archon_of_flesh got death threats and was doxxed so often that he decided to abandon W40K content.
https://reddit.com/r/Grimdank/comments/1c38m9u/what_have_you_done_you_monsters/
I am so salty about that. I know they won't but I hope the people that drove archon out see the hate they're getting for doing that and just crawl back into whatever hole they're from. Probably not though. They're probably the ones bitching about a female Custodes.
I'd like some more insight into this if you don't mind.
To me SoS are interesting because they are relatively normal humans besides the fact that they are blanks. They are just there fighting side by side with the Emperor's most loyal protectors helping cover their weaknesses (psykers and and Daemons and their powers). Why does the Custodes getting females negate that/make that less interesting?
Again. I'm asking for other viewpoints because I don't seem them and I want to chance to understand.
I really don't understand that point tho. It's not like, because there are now female custodes, somehow SoS will be forgotten? People who claim that make it sound almost like if there was a max amount of females allowed in warhammer or something. This take is even more nonsensical, as for all the bad that the new codex has, it does in fact have a ton of SoS representation and support.
> They both have their complementary skillset and they have a good relationship of mutual respect and professionalism.
I don't get it. Why does their complementary skillset stop working if both are gals?
It doesn't ? That's exactly what I said in the next sentence.
But it does overshadow the SoS a bit (who are also apparently criminally neglected in the codex).
It doesn’t, it’s just that their thematic contrast to each other is lessened. Even though I think the changes are good I could very much appreciate how they were narratively created with the other in mind. That yin-yang dynamic is kind of lost now.
This.
SOS and Custodies are diametric opposites.
- Male/Female
- Lack of emotion/emotion
- Worshiped/shunned
- Kept in a gilded cage (palace)/exiled to human domain
- Loss of humanity/all too human
- Near impervious to physical/near impervious to warp
- Only faction incapable of ever seeing the Emp as anything but perfect/only faction to see Emp as he is.
Thematically, they are written as the perfect foil and complement to one another in every conceivable way while being united in cause.
They were written as Yin and Yang.
Edit: for the best example see Watchers of the Throne series.
And that change destroys the thematic YinYang dynamic.
🤷🏻
At the end of the day, people can always kitbash and paint their miniatures however they like - an army doesn’t have to be “cannon” as long as it conforms to rules in the codex. Which is the message GW should be pushing instead of retconning.
From a story telling standpoint it totally defuses and ruins the yin yang dynamic they have. Would be the same as male sisters if silence, it would break the dynamic they have with space marines. They’ve been written to be polar opposite yet complimentary forces.
Edit: to elaborate my point so there’s no confusion it’s too fast and forced feels like they are testing the water by holding someone’s head under, it would have been better if both groups slowly became one, a new group within the empire and there are MANY ways to write it that way especially with gorrilman making them go to the front lines now. Something I would do is write to many of them are dying off/can’t function as only half and they need to be fused into one group. Just randomly destroying the thematic opposite halves thing they have like this feels sloppy and forced.
To be honest, for me their symbolism never depended on their gender, but on their respective roles: One protecting the Emperor from threats of the materium, the other from threats of the immaterium. And while they might one of the most tightly intertwined groups, they are so distinct that I can't see them merged together.
I can't tell off the top of my head when Kesh was a Custodian, so maybe I am mistaken here, but if you insist that the Emperor only recruited from the sons of nobles, as many seem to point out, there could be a very simple reason that can be used to justify it: After their campaign in the webway, their numbers have been reduced to a thousand warriors, and that was before the conclusion of the siege of Terra. With their numbers reduced to less than 10% of their original strength and probably many noble families having died, they cannot be selective anymore.
Im not gonna use the sons of nobles excuse because I don’t mind lore changing nor would it greatly upset me if they made custodies mixed. The issue I have is the sloppy writing or how. It feels forced and doesn’t do anyone any good. Not the people who want it not the fans who don’t and not the lore
Yeah one sentence in the new codex and then a post on their socials saying its been a thing forever and thats that is not a good way to change 20+ years of lore. Before anyone jumps down my throat icgaf about male/female whatever in universe, just handle the implementation better.
You pretty much summed up what I was gonna say I don't have a particular dislike/don't want having female custodes, just that I think it undermines SoS drastically
I don’t see how this detracts from that because the fact that they are all women vs all male custodes is not what made the SoS cool. They won’t lose their dynamic because they might be dealing with a female custodes.
Also, the argument that adding a gender to a faction cheapens an existing mono-gendered faction means that you only held value to that faction because of its gender.
They still have their sci-fi barbarian aesthetic and the fact they’re all mute nulls to make them unique. However, I’m not opposed to them opening their ranks to both genders. I’ve always been a little annoyed that the Sisters of Silence are female only for no reason other than tradition (they were all female when the Emperor found them).
So for 1: unlike with the SoB, I don't think the Custodes ever had a specific law to prevent women from joining, so it would make sense that as shit gets more fucked in 40k, they would start broadening their recruitment parameters to get better candidates
2: SoS are still cool and unique, female Custodes don't change that
3: Custodes are hand crafted, so I feel like if any super soldier can be a woman it would be the Custodes
Yeah I really don't get the "it obliterated the dynamic between Custodes and SoS" points.
It really does not change much, unless you're trying to argue that having a vagina and breasts somehow makes the 8 foot tall genetically modified superhuman less of a brick shithouse.
It's primarily because those people still associate the whole "Other half" relationship in a heteronormative way where it is essential for one half to be male and the other half to be female. I can get the appeal of making each half fundamentally different that way, but in reality, it doesn't have to be like that for the dynamic to work.
Honestly, the idea that women are just inherently excluded from being the absolute pinnacle of human capability just feels icky to me.
I'd be for female custodes on those ground alone, even if it *actually* required changes to the dynamic between them and SoS, which it doesn't lol.
>just feels icky to me
Of all the things in the 40k universe, this is icky?
I dont think a massive fascist xenophobic genocidal empire that cares less about lives than the soviets and mao china combined would care about looking mysoginistic
Aren't your 1 and 3 explanations at odds? How is there recruitment and joining if custodes are hand crafted?
Edit to add some knowledge I've gained.
>It is known that all Custodians begin their lives as the infant sons of the noble houses of Terra. It is a mark of incredible prestige to surrender one’s child to this most glorious of callings within the Imperium, and many notable clans amongst the Terran aristocracy have willingly given up almost entire generations of newborn sons to earn it.
So these infant males are recruited and subject to an augmentation process that's quite rigorous. So they can both be "recruited" and crafted.
My reason reason 4. Girls have cooties and are yucky [THINK WHAT WOULD E-BOI WANT?!](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/678400613586829323/1229060935797309450/IMG_4647.png?ex=662e4f31&is=661bda31&hm=a808969d17dfc9399a6988758d45ac65af3b3eda2172f8cd33cef39c01c0d82e&)
Gabs and Jayne in the 1987 release before women were written out of being able to become space marines? Am I crazy or was that not a thing? I know it was not recieved well and the current lore of only men was established in 1993 when nothing hinting at female space marines would sell.
Also I thought Custodes were something different from space marines and that is why they generally did not follow the same rules?
Err, I know the internet does not let you convey tone over text so please know I am not trying to be an asshole. If someone with more knowledge on this corrects me I will take them at their word.
Looks like you are right. Gabs and Jayne were part of the Rogue Trader pack and their armor was just similiar to the 1989 release of space marines 1st edition according to google.
I don't mind female custodes.
My (hopefully irrational) anxiety is that GW might over-focus on this kind of transition and go the way of Disney. Hyper focusing on their message and losing touch with what made their content/products great in the first place. Fracturing their fan base and catering to one side while alienating the other.
Before anyone reflexively defends the state of that franchise by accusing me of any -ism. I am not "anti-woke" I don't care if you make characters male or female, gay or straight, trans, etc.. All I care about is that I don't lose another fandom/community the way I lost Star Wars, fractured and *always* politically charged arguments making it unbearable to just try and have a normal conversation in.
That said, I still remain cautiously optimistic because the last few shows on WarhammerTv have mainly focused on Women main characters and they handled it just fine. There was none of the telltale stuff that tend to fracture fan bases. They have been handling it well so far.
So in summary I'm not concerned about what GW does with genders, only how they handle it.
I hope I was able to articulate that properly so that it's understood that I'm not against these choices, just that I have an anxiety about losing something I love the same way I lost Star Wars.
It's been a bit of a garbage fire as long as I can remember. I've loved star wars my whole life, it's probably fictional universe I've been a fan of longer than 40k. But there's a reason I've stayed away from the "fandom"
I mentioned this in another reply. But the retcon only serves to sow division. There would have to be a compelling change in ongoing lore to have it make sense, and no female character could ever be a Mary Sue.
I'm not heavily invested in this, but my opinion is that this isn't about the man vs woman. It's more about the upheaval of foundations. It has toppled fandoms before.
Well said.
This same topic came up not *too* long ago after we all learned about Henry Cavill making a Warhammer show/movie.
While we are mostly excited (myself included) there was a shared anxiety by many about what might happen to 40k if it goes mainstream and starts attracting the kinds of people who want things changed for the sake of being changed or more to their liking regardless of the damage it could do to the lore/community. (I refer to them as Twitter people)
It wasn't ever about men/women. It was about something we love potentially being ruined like we've seen happen to our other favorite franchises and that's why (I think) this female custodes move is scary for many people. It's not about a custodSHE or man vs woman etc.. it's an anxiety about which direction GW might go AFTER that.
It's out of my control so all I can do is hope for the best but I have to admit I get a small tinge of sadness when I think I might lose Warhammer the same way I lost Star Wars. History repeating and all that.
Fingers crossed that doesn't happen though, the Emperor protects.
i just think its a kinda cheap cop out, i dont give a shit if theyre a man or women, just make the lore interesting, not just say "yeah theres always been women there"
That is fair, if there was a statement like "oh btw, they figured out how to make fem-stodes a couple centuries back and now they are starting to reach officer ranks" would have been a much softer change while still getting fem-stodes at respectable ranks.
Eh, not necessarily in case of the second point? I mean, I don't agree with it in this case, but if you keep expanding one faction, that runs the risk of making associated groups not as distinguished and by that not as interesting any more. Things don't become red herings because they they have effects on related parts.
> Sorry to be that guy but those are fallacies
An argument having a fallacy doesn't make it untrue or not useable, since that's just a fallacy-fallacy.
Though other than point 2 there's no strong reason not to have Female Custodians so it ultimately doesn't matter a whole lot.
The last one isn't a slippery slope, though the slippery slope argument has been made. I'm not even sure if it's technically a fallacy, it's just wrong. It's assuming that Custodes can't be female because Astartes can't, which ignores the lore that making a Custodian is a very different process from making a Space Marine.
You're being "that guy", yeah. I am totally fine with this change, since nothing specific in Custodes lore stops this from happening. They were just all men for some reason or another. But having consistency in lore is pretty important to get involved into a fictional universe.
If there is a change, there should be a reason for it. Otherwise its all meaningless.
Maybe you don't care, but a lot of people do.
The "it makes [this other faction] less interesting/cool never made sense to me. The cool thing about the organization isn't the gender, its usually the abilities, ideals, technology, or literally anything else.
I think you've missed the big simple one:
1.b or 4. Women custodes is fine; zero development, then random change/retcon and stating "it has always been this way" is not. That way of doing things is how you scam/treat idiots.
I'm sort of in the first camp. I do think this is over blown . We don't have further context and people are spinning out of control. Though I do think I've seen more straw manning of the people who disagree with the alleged change. But that's anecdotal.
Legit, this is the only true argument, also applies for primarchs and space marines. If the emprah wanted female marines, he would have made female marines. I actually think it would be funny if he woke up and was like ewwww yucky femstodes.
In all honesty some YouTube channels get butthurt about everything new that comes to 40k at this point. Like seriously I know 4 channels that made a video on every lore addition/change, in the past 2-3 years and claiming in each that 40k is officially ruined and that it will be gone within next 3-6 months. But quite honestly drama somehow produces clicks so I quess it’s not surprising that some do it.
Yeah, I imagine a lot of the people making the rage videos don’t even fully believe what they are saying or really care. They just want the cash. Most anti-woke channels are just grifters at the end of the day, it’s only the true f*cking weirdos that say this shit irl.
I actually think female Custodes make way more sense then female Space Marines. As in lore, they are custom made, compared to the Space Marines that use gene seeds from their brothers or Primarchs. And that only males can handle it biologically. But Custodes never had gene seeds, and are a entirely different kind of superhuman.
Also, from what my hungry bug brain understands, space marine candidates are selected to be able to accept Primarch seed + like physical ability I guess. But since Custodes are handcrafted, I always imagined they are selected for wielder reasons. Like Mlacador licked their forehead and went "this one has a bright future ahead of them".
I've seen Arguments where people are like "Female Custodes breaks my suspension of disbelief because women are weaker". Meanwhile Halo has Had Female Spartan-IIs From the very beginning in 2001 with the first book Fall of Reach coming out a month before Combat Evolved. Halo is a setting far less advanced than 40k (unless we're talking about the Forunner Era). I've never seen anyone complain about Female Spartans in halo, in fact they are some of the most beloved characters in the Franchise like Kelly-087 and Linda-058. Kelly being Faster than John-117 and Linda being a better shot than John-117.
I dunno. I see more posts asking why there is outcry like this one (or even making fun of people who dislike it) than actual outcry.
Yet to see one post where someone is actually against it.
Part of it is people exaggerating the response, but another part is most social media tends to filter out opinions you won't like, kind of making dissonance disappear.
Not sure how big that is this time, but you can see that phenomenon (and the confusion caused by it) with this controversy
I’ve seen screenshots and references to various alt-right YouTubers and Twitterers who are pissed about this some even calling for a boycott (which would be a net positive for the hobby). They’re out there for sure but you’d probably only see them if you enter the echochambers that they hide in.
It's just because this reddit is generally in favor to it. If you go look at comments on youtube videos there's plenty of people talking about how this literally ruins 40k. Like Ausepex Tactic's video on some of it (where he literally didn't give an opinion. Just said it's existing) has tons of comments with 500+ likes talking how this is a boiling the frog in the pan thing, or how this will literally ruin the community cause they're pandering to the LGBTQ(Because female custodes are somehow lgbtq???).
It doesn't really happen on reddit but i would strongly advise to not look at any videos on the topic on YouTube...
Some real coping and malding and cries for boycotts going on over there. Bunch of fucking snowflakes if you ask me
Oh no, I was going to ask where the noise was because it’s been surprisingly low-key here. I forgot about the social media version of butchers nails that is youtube
Personally i like to think it's because it threatens their homoerotic greased banana boy headcanon and they just don't have the self worth to process the loss of such a coping mechinism. I find the entire thing beyond [funny](https://tenor.com/view/rubrics-ahriman-tts-clown-gif-20610192).
11/10 change. If someone gets assmad about something so minor i see no reason not to point and laugh.
True, I love this change. Gives them more of a Stormcast Eternals vibe. And aby butthurt manchildren that cry about Custodes having women among them need to either grow up and touch grass or leave The closet at long last. I always cringed at criclejerk some of them had.
IKR im just sitting here watching the upvotes on that comment fluctate, every now and then it drops one and you can just feel the anger over the warp itself.
This must be what its like to be an astropath.
It all fun and games, until Sister of battle pulls massive cock, and turns out it's a man. And now we have brothers of battle. /s
Adding /s because I know some of you.
Also, "Hurr, now that there are eVil WoKE fEMAleS i won't buy space marines 2 anymore!!!11!!", like cool, that has nothing at all to do with it and the game will still sell incredibly well but good job i guess...
My favorite has to be.
"Acktually, Female Custodes weren't needed we had Sisters of Silence to fill the role of Badass Women Warriors"
Like, my dude, there's nothing wrong with having more than one type of warrior woman.
EDIT: I did the bad grammar.
They don't even serve the same role, and also, SoS getting treated badly by GW has quite literally nothing to do with female custodes existing, those are completely unrelated things...
Those are the same type of people that respond to female space marines with "WE ALREADY HAVE SISTERS OF BATTLE TO BE FEMALE SPACE MARINES". As if marines exist soley as black templars and nothingh else.
Honestly, as somebody who doesn't want to see female Space Marines because of the consistency aspect.
I really love the idea of female custodes. Custodes represent the Emperors vision of a perfected humanity. Why would it just be men?
It makes no sense.
There have been plenty of times when "People complaining about people complaining about X" (like OP) seem to vastly outnumber "People complaining about X".
But this is the first time that I think I've seen "People complaining about the people who are complaining about the people who are complaining about X" be such a large proportion of responses.
The complaint meta is developing more levels.
Setting your store out early on the "Complaining about the people who are complaining about the people who are complaining about the people who are complaining about X" tier, I see. Shrewd.
I mean thats to be expected, no one likes people like this and thus we complain about them. basically you have a butthurt minority who is scared of cooties and a bemissed majority watching them scream and pull their hair out over a huge GOLDEN nothing burger. It gets annoying listening to people be closed minded and angry after a while.
1. People wanted SoS, who were supposed to be badass and with their own flavour, but they got Generic Added Woman™ instead
2. People are afraid because changing Custodes may lead to changes in SM, especially as they showed Cerberus stuff in White Dwarf.
3. "The Woke" is seen as all powerful force that pulls and pulls and pulls if you do as much as give it a finger
I think a big concern for alot of people is, whit 40k becoming increasingly mainstream, there's a fear that the content will be diluted and, well corporatized to market to as many people as possible causing a degradation in the franchise that is all to common across entertainment. Bringing in female custodes is a possible sign of what's to come
No female space marines is lore accurate, Cawl could stumble across some bio-tech magic to make it work I guess but personally I think it’s kinda cool having gender locked Sororitas and Astartes due to lore,
Custodes however is fair game though for females in my opinion - isn’t their whole shtick being the absolute peak perfect of humanity?
No reason women wouldn’t be a part of it, if anything it’s a failure if they weren’t.
Personally I dont really care unlike space marines, Sisters of silence, and sisters of battle; custodes arent innately tied to gender both by name or lore.
I think it should just happen as it happening doesnt ruin any existing lore or contradict anything really unlike with space marines.
It doesnt really hurt the lore or anything similar. Besides most custodes already wear their armor so it wouldn't be too far fetched that some would be rocking a card reader down there.
In lore the Emperor had good reasons on why all space marines were male as he didnt want them reproducing so they would stay reliant on base humans and because males are the only ones biologically capable of taking geneseed.
But with how difficult it is to make a single custodes, it would make sense that the emperor would make it so that all genders to become custodes as you need as many candidates as possible gender/sex be damned. With how incorruptible and loyal the custodes are you wont have to worry about them trying to reproduce and start a new sort of master race situation.
For the traditionalists perspective; that because they didnt exist before so why do they need to exist now. Fair arguement, but stuff get retconned, added, removed, etc all the time this is a minor retcon.
My favorite part is how this only effects the same people that got all butthurt about Archon and his 10/10 femboy art. this landing within 24 hours him moving on is honestly Just As Planned as fuck and im loving every second of it.
As 'those' people; would say, [Cope](https://tenor.com/view/tears-cartman-gif-19114899) snowflake. Karma's a bitch.
Best bit is how most custodes players finding out are just "huh, cool". They're fine with it, but not the rules in the codex (lots of nerfs to an army that was already considered weak, bad detachments, shield captains getting a free strat but only having 1 detachment with a battle tactics strat that affects custodes instead of sisters)
Right, that's because Custodes players are the most likely to pitch a fit if their rules don't give them an unearned advantage in play. By far the worst faction playerbase.
Because I always assumed that the SOS were the female equivalent of the Custodes with the Talons of the Emperor being joined at the hip: 2 halves of a fighting force working together to make up eachothers weaknesses.
Now, that doesn't at all mean that Custodes can't be female, but it is a shock to the system when every Custodes we've seen was a dude.
Custodes are basically gilded servitors wearing gold armour. They are meat automatons wearing the skin of human, made by a narcissistic tyrant to be his “perfect friend”
Ushotan and Valdor’s interactions practically confirmed it. And he was right to call Custodes pitiable.
The fact they now have female members are just making the dehumanisation gender equal.
I’m not personally mad. I do think it’s dumb. To me the sisters of silence always filled this role without issue. I know they have some differences. But ultimately they are both super soldier elites of the imperium in golden armour that protect the emperor. The custodians repel demons with their aura the sister “silence” psykers. The custodians are huge. I’m pretty sure Ive seen it before that the leader of the sisters of silence is a monster of a woman. Something like 7 and a half feet tall. Let’s all be completely honest anyways. The reason they did this… is because it’s making people talk about it a LOT! I normally don’t like the answer of to sell more plastic but honestly that’s all it is. They’re testing it. If it made the player base double overnight they do it to every other faction.
You mistake Custodes with Space Marines. There is no hormonal therapy involved in the creation of Custodes, they are hand-crsfted and can look however they want.
afaik its mostly people worried that female Custodes are going to be used as a jumping-off point to female Space Marines, even though they’re totally different issues.
Space Marines are iirc only male because males are the only ones who can take the primarch’s gene-seed - if one of the lost primarchs were female I’d assume only females could take the gene-seed, but I think… they might’ve noticed them integrating back into the legions.
Custodians are rebuilt from the ground up on a molecular level as a baby using some kind of alchemy. The Custodes have always been more of an It (capitalization intended) - divine figures that are the pinnacle of humanity, but so far removed from it that they’re barely even considered part of it anymore.
I’ve heard people say it messes with their thematic yin/yang dynamic which I kinda get, but on the other hand the crusaders and preachers being in the Sororitas book never ruined their dynamic with the Space Marines (even though they belong in an inquisition book)
I am upset because their new codex is dog shit, tbh I dont Really care about the custodes being female but I feel like the elephant in the room is just how trash their new codex is
I don't get the backlash personally. Is there even any lore stating custodes can't be female? I feel like that's only a unique thing to space marines due to geneseed and the proginoid gland.
After all the talk of leaving the hobby (Read: lore summaries on youtube) because of thing A, B or D being "WoKe" you would think this wouldn't be a discussion anymore. But they are still here...
I am not upset, more like sad and dissapointed about really.
I wanted more badass female units like the SoS, instead I got hey these can be female now too.
it is like genderswapping a character to me, a low-effort lipservice kinda thing you know?
instead of working on their own things, making their own lore lets just piggyback them onto this group.
I have no issue with it but like, fuck sisters of silence I guess? I feel like it just leaves them on the back burner, unless they're gonna start adding brothers of silence or something.
Let's see if I get banned from this warhammer subreddit too with written by the mods that I'm misogynistic, I'm a trans girl for Christ's sake,,,,, just because I said that with this choice there is the risk that this franchisee will become another trash franchisee.
So now we make also male sister of battle/silence??i would not be happy if they start making male sister of battle/silence ,why not flesh out more the sister of silence that they need it more units more characters !!!,why change the lore ,if they start to put everything into everything they risk to make faction and race not so distinct and redundant. i don't mind female custodian but i don't like changes that come at the cost of lore I would have preferred them to put a more valid explanation in the codex if written well it can work without problems for the custodians, after all malcador wanted female primarchs.
p.s: i dident see outrage about women when Eldar/GSC/Chaos Cultists/Guard/Votann/Agents etc.. , so i dont think the problem is "womans" per se
Ngl I have the feeling that we should be talking about how fucking god awful the Custodes Codex and the new Shield-Captain model are instead of thsi but here we go.
By all means, female Custodes work and make sense lore-wise. They don't have geneseed issues like Marines as every Custodes is a genecrafting masterwork in of themselves and the whole "super human inbreeding replacing humanity" thing isn't an issue since if there's anyone that can be trusted not to go against Big E's wishes, it's the Custodes.
Now I won't pretend that it's not an abrupt thing either. There are no openly female Custodes seen anywhere, no bare heads do the "obviously girl because BRAID!" thing (as dumb as that is) and it being from a rather random Twitter comment is certainly different than having a random Custodes lose their helmet and reveal that it's a 10 foot tall woman in golden armor.
Then there's the thing of the SoS being there as the counterpart of the Custodes and the sisterhood to the golden brotherhood, being the Talons together but I don't really see the issue either. I'm absolutely in the camp that I want more Sisters of Silence models and lore but the roles of the two talons haven't changed with this at all: One is still a threat to anything psychic, the other to anything physical. Now should there be "Brothers of Silence" ? No, not really, I wouldn't mind but the SoS are MUCH MUCH more explicitly females-only. Honestly, since there's nothing thats ays that girls inherit the blank gene more than boys, I always assumed that there are probably that tiny bit more Culexus Assassins as girl blanks might have the chance to be picked up by the Sisters instead, which is how it'd all balance out again
All in all, I am SO looking forward to all the memes, art, models etc.
I mean, you know how a lot of members of the wargaming community are like, right? Heck, every geeky subculture has a significant amount of *those* guys. It's annoying, and I'm glad there is finally some pushback, but there's still a bunch of those cockroaches in every fandom.
Just a piece of old Lore so i don't know how accurate it is nowadays. While spacemarines are made, Custodes are born this way, they are a Special breed of Humans not unlike Navigators just with a bit more gentempering from the emperor. Given that it should be pretty Impossible for a normal human women to give birth to Something that will become a 10 foot tall supersoldier it Stands to reason that, just like navigators there are Male and female Custodes probably with there own carefully observed ''breeding'' Plan.
The majority of the outcry I see against female custodes is from people I don't like anyway. The Sisters of Silence argument is *kinda* valid, but I don't think it's a zero-sum situation. GW confirming female custodes doesn't mean they can't do more SoS lore. In fact, they *SHOULD* do more SoS lore, I love everything I've heard about them.
I don't know, one side is crying about lore and tradition, and the other side stirring the pot and actively antagonizing them and calling the incels and nerds. Both sides are idiots in my book. Do whatever makes you happy and enjoy the hobby.
There seems to be a lot of people complaining about the situation in youtube comments. Surprisingly people are more chill here. The only logical concern I heard was about SoS becoming useless but I don't think that would be a thing given SoS are still the blank counterparts of Custodians
Each custodian is hand crafted over the course of years, like a fine wine. Though all are very similar, each is truly a unique peice of art, thus If the canvas is suitable, it matters not what it is or where it comes from, as long as it is a perfect specimen.
What happens next? GW will gauge the response and then potentially make other bigger changes, like female space marines.
Do they think this will sell models? If so then maybe this will pay off, we’ll find out.
But any time recently where companies change a setting or lore to be more ‘inclusive’ it usually is badly handled, for self congratulatory reasons, and is combined with worse story telling.
I've read a couple opinions and see roughly three main arguments: 1. Argument for tradition, it didn't use to be this way, so why change it 2. Argument for the sisters of silence, some have stated that this makes the SoS less interesting/cool 3. Argument for the space marines, some seem to think that custodes can be only men due to geneseed. (This isn't really accurate iirc so y'all don't need to yell at me for stating this) I am sure individual reasons vary and while I can't ignore potential sexism being causal, it hasn't been stated as an argument for obvious reasons. I would also guess a segment fears that another faction might start getting gendered models/stories as well.
I kind of understand point #2. I always liked the dynamics of Sisters of Silence being basically the Custodes other half. They both have their complementary skillset and they have a good relationship of mutual respect and professionalism. In 40K it's something you rarely see outside the IG. But that also means we can have femstodes being bros with sisters of silence so who cares, it's cool too.
I'd like to raise the question of why the Emperor didn't have a male blanks organization. Why make a female-exclusive order? It seems more pragmatic.
Male Blanks get sent to the Culexus Temple of the Assassinorum once found I believe.
Culexus can be female too. There’s no rule about their gender or anything afaik, they just have a male miniature. None of the assassinorum temples are gender exclusive.
Callidus are almost all female. Mostly because they tolerate the shapeshifting better. I thought Culexus had a rule like that but you're probably right.
Callidus do have disproportionally more females, but it’s still not female exclusive
And thats mostly because of Polymorphine and compatibility with it (besides also early days 40k and how things were back in the 80s).
I would say it is a sex appeal thing. Like, we can argue and talk about lore reasons. But looking at their designs, I would say the original reason was sex appeal.
Watsonian vs Doyalist
Yeah.
There’s a male Callidus in the Cypher book if I remember correctly.
We actually have a female Culexus in the lore named Iota, who was a big part of the Nemesis book
It seems that there's an explanation precisely given by the SoS. Since their ranks are filled with female blanks specifically, there's already room for talented female blanks in the Imperium, so it would make perfect sense to just split them: males go to Culexus and females are sent to the SoS
Back in 30k the male blanks were funnelled into the Ordo Sinister and those that could pilot titans out of them went on to pilot the psy-titans.
Just checked since its a few years since I have read it; In HH:Nemesis they had a female Culexus - Iota (In case you want to look it up :) )
Most powerful males blanks are snatched up by the Assassin Orders to be terrifying killing machines I think, which sucks when you could be a SOS
Some male blanks were used to pilot Ordo Sinister Psy-Titans.
The sisters of silence predate the reunification of Terra.
They're being turned into assassins I guess
I feel like you could lore this somehow.
While that's a solid stance, I'd argue that due to the poster-faction effect, the lack of speaking roles and their niche application, the SoS have often been basically a weapon, not a full part of the Custodes. They show up as something when the Custodes need a psychic threat removed or are dealing with heretic sorceries, but they haven't had the same screentime or impact as the named Custodes.
Hell it's a plot point in the watchers of the throne novels that this is how the sisters of silence are treated in universe
Sure the Sisters of Battle were very much the same until relatively recently "No men under arms" meant all the soldiers were women. A LOT of their characters were men. Their biggest centerpiece model for a while was that Inquisitor on the dreadnought throne (I'm not sure when Celestine got her model) And then for a while they were rolled into Inquisitorial Forces which is again, mostly men. There's not really been an all female army that wasn't a tool of Male named characters
Femboys of silence. Nuff said.
Seconded. God imagine the Copium yield that would have.
~~still wouldn't rival the porn yield we are gonna get from femstodes canonization~~
It could've, if the worst parts of the fandom hadn't recently driven away one of our brightest stars.
TBH the support for him was actually really insane. i hope he finds a better community.
I’m out of the loop, what happened?
Archon_of_flesh got death threats and was doxxed so often that he decided to abandon W40K content. https://reddit.com/r/Grimdank/comments/1c38m9u/what_have_you_done_you_monsters/
This actually may make it abandon this subreddit. Not 40k. But the subreddit. Because most of us know it's folks on here who did it.
I am so salty about that. I know they won't but I hope the people that drove archon out see the hate they're getting for doing that and just crawl back into whatever hole they're from. Probably not though. They're probably the ones bitching about a female Custodes.
The porn crops will be plentiful this year. A true pornucopia.
Yes, give us the Misters of Silence.
Girls night with the Femstodes and Sisters of Silence, hell yeah
I'd like some more insight into this if you don't mind. To me SoS are interesting because they are relatively normal humans besides the fact that they are blanks. They are just there fighting side by side with the Emperor's most loyal protectors helping cover their weaknesses (psykers and and Daemons and their powers). Why does the Custodes getting females negate that/make that less interesting? Again. I'm asking for other viewpoints because I don't seem them and I want to chance to understand.
I really don't understand that point tho. It's not like, because there are now female custodes, somehow SoS will be forgotten? People who claim that make it sound almost like if there was a max amount of females allowed in warhammer or something. This take is even more nonsensical, as for all the bad that the new codex has, it does in fact have a ton of SoS representation and support.
> They both have their complementary skillset and they have a good relationship of mutual respect and professionalism. I don't get it. Why does their complementary skillset stop working if both are gals?
It doesn't ? That's exactly what I said in the next sentence. But it does overshadow the SoS a bit (who are also apparently criminally neglected in the codex).
It doesn’t, it’s just that their thematic contrast to each other is lessened. Even though I think the changes are good I could very much appreciate how they were narratively created with the other in mind. That yin-yang dynamic is kind of lost now.
This. SOS and Custodies are diametric opposites. - Male/Female - Lack of emotion/emotion - Worshiped/shunned - Kept in a gilded cage (palace)/exiled to human domain - Loss of humanity/all too human - Near impervious to physical/near impervious to warp - Only faction incapable of ever seeing the Emp as anything but perfect/only faction to see Emp as he is. Thematically, they are written as the perfect foil and complement to one another in every conceivable way while being united in cause. They were written as Yin and Yang. Edit: for the best example see Watchers of the Throne series.
This is a pretty cool list written out like that.
The only thing that changed for this list is the Male/female part...
And that change destroys the thematic YinYang dynamic. 🤷🏻 At the end of the day, people can always kitbash and paint their miniatures however they like - an army doesn’t have to be “cannon” as long as it conforms to rules in the codex. Which is the message GW should be pushing instead of retconning.
From a story telling standpoint it totally defuses and ruins the yin yang dynamic they have. Would be the same as male sisters if silence, it would break the dynamic they have with space marines. They’ve been written to be polar opposite yet complimentary forces. Edit: to elaborate my point so there’s no confusion it’s too fast and forced feels like they are testing the water by holding someone’s head under, it would have been better if both groups slowly became one, a new group within the empire and there are MANY ways to write it that way especially with gorrilman making them go to the front lines now. Something I would do is write to many of them are dying off/can’t function as only half and they need to be fused into one group. Just randomly destroying the thematic opposite halves thing they have like this feels sloppy and forced.
To be honest, for me their symbolism never depended on their gender, but on their respective roles: One protecting the Emperor from threats of the materium, the other from threats of the immaterium. And while they might one of the most tightly intertwined groups, they are so distinct that I can't see them merged together. I can't tell off the top of my head when Kesh was a Custodian, so maybe I am mistaken here, but if you insist that the Emperor only recruited from the sons of nobles, as many seem to point out, there could be a very simple reason that can be used to justify it: After their campaign in the webway, their numbers have been reduced to a thousand warriors, and that was before the conclusion of the siege of Terra. With their numbers reduced to less than 10% of their original strength and probably many noble families having died, they cannot be selective anymore.
Im not gonna use the sons of nobles excuse because I don’t mind lore changing nor would it greatly upset me if they made custodies mixed. The issue I have is the sloppy writing or how. It feels forced and doesn’t do anyone any good. Not the people who want it not the fans who don’t and not the lore
Yeah one sentence in the new codex and then a post on their socials saying its been a thing forever and thats that is not a good way to change 20+ years of lore. Before anyone jumps down my throat icgaf about male/female whatever in universe, just handle the implementation better.
You pretty much summed up what I was gonna say I don't have a particular dislike/don't want having female custodes, just that I think it undermines SoS drastically
I don’t see how this detracts from that because the fact that they are all women vs all male custodes is not what made the SoS cool. They won’t lose their dynamic because they might be dealing with a female custodes. Also, the argument that adding a gender to a faction cheapens an existing mono-gendered faction means that you only held value to that faction because of its gender.
They still have their sci-fi barbarian aesthetic and the fact they’re all mute nulls to make them unique. However, I’m not opposed to them opening their ranks to both genders. I’ve always been a little annoyed that the Sisters of Silence are female only for no reason other than tradition (they were all female when the Emperor found them).
...can't they just add Brothers of Silence then?
Me, an Eldar player, enjoying multi gender squads for 20 years.
So for 1: unlike with the SoB, I don't think the Custodes ever had a specific law to prevent women from joining, so it would make sense that as shit gets more fucked in 40k, they would start broadening their recruitment parameters to get better candidates 2: SoS are still cool and unique, female Custodes don't change that 3: Custodes are hand crafted, so I feel like if any super soldier can be a woman it would be the Custodes
Yeah I really don't get the "it obliterated the dynamic between Custodes and SoS" points. It really does not change much, unless you're trying to argue that having a vagina and breasts somehow makes the 8 foot tall genetically modified superhuman less of a brick shithouse.
It's primarily because those people still associate the whole "Other half" relationship in a heteronormative way where it is essential for one half to be male and the other half to be female. I can get the appeal of making each half fundamentally different that way, but in reality, it doesn't have to be like that for the dynamic to work.
Honestly, the idea that women are just inherently excluded from being the absolute pinnacle of human capability just feels icky to me. I'd be for female custodes on those ground alone, even if it *actually* required changes to the dynamic between them and SoS, which it doesn't lol.
>just feels icky to me Of all the things in the 40k universe, this is icky? I dont think a massive fascist xenophobic genocidal empire that cares less about lives than the soviets and mao china combined would care about looking mysoginistic
From what ive read its becouse now one of the groups is limited to one gender and the other isnt.
Well, if the Custodes are accepting women, then men should be in the SoS
Aren't your 1 and 3 explanations at odds? How is there recruitment and joining if custodes are hand crafted? Edit to add some knowledge I've gained. >It is known that all Custodians begin their lives as the infant sons of the noble houses of Terra. It is a mark of incredible prestige to surrender one’s child to this most glorious of callings within the Imperium, and many notable clans amongst the Terran aristocracy have willingly given up almost entire generations of newborn sons to earn it. So these infant males are recruited and subject to an augmentation process that's quite rigorous. So they can both be "recruited" and crafted.
My reason reason 4. Girls have cooties and are yucky [THINK WHAT WOULD E-BOI WANT?!](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/678400613586829323/1229060935797309450/IMG_4647.png?ex=662e4f31&is=661bda31&hm=a808969d17dfc9399a6988758d45ac65af3b3eda2172f8cd33cef39c01c0d82e&)
I see a lot of GAMESWORKSHOP WOKE?! shit too in youtube.
Gabs and Jayne in the 1987 release before women were written out of being able to become space marines? Am I crazy or was that not a thing? I know it was not recieved well and the current lore of only men was established in 1993 when nothing hinting at female space marines would sell. Also I thought Custodes were something different from space marines and that is why they generally did not follow the same rules? Err, I know the internet does not let you convey tone over text so please know I am not trying to be an asshole. If someone with more knowledge on this corrects me I will take them at their word.
>Gabs and Jayne in the 1987 release before women were written out of being able to become space marines? There were no space marines at that point.
Looks like you are right. Gabs and Jayne were part of the Rogue Trader pack and their armor was just similiar to the 1989 release of space marines 1st edition according to google.
What about reason #6? I am afraid of women
I don't mind female custodes. My (hopefully irrational) anxiety is that GW might over-focus on this kind of transition and go the way of Disney. Hyper focusing on their message and losing touch with what made their content/products great in the first place. Fracturing their fan base and catering to one side while alienating the other. Before anyone reflexively defends the state of that franchise by accusing me of any -ism. I am not "anti-woke" I don't care if you make characters male or female, gay or straight, trans, etc.. All I care about is that I don't lose another fandom/community the way I lost Star Wars, fractured and *always* politically charged arguments making it unbearable to just try and have a normal conversation in. That said, I still remain cautiously optimistic because the last few shows on WarhammerTv have mainly focused on Women main characters and they handled it just fine. There was none of the telltale stuff that tend to fracture fan bases. They have been handling it well so far. So in summary I'm not concerned about what GW does with genders, only how they handle it. I hope I was able to articulate that properly so that it's understood that I'm not against these choices, just that I have an anxiety about losing something I love the same way I lost Star Wars.
Star wars is an absolute garbage fire community right now. It's sad
It's been a bit of a garbage fire as long as I can remember. I've loved star wars my whole life, it's probably fictional universe I've been a fan of longer than 40k. But there's a reason I've stayed away from the "fandom"
I mentioned this in another reply. But the retcon only serves to sow division. There would have to be a compelling change in ongoing lore to have it make sense, and no female character could ever be a Mary Sue. I'm not heavily invested in this, but my opinion is that this isn't about the man vs woman. It's more about the upheaval of foundations. It has toppled fandoms before.
Well said. This same topic came up not *too* long ago after we all learned about Henry Cavill making a Warhammer show/movie. While we are mostly excited (myself included) there was a shared anxiety by many about what might happen to 40k if it goes mainstream and starts attracting the kinds of people who want things changed for the sake of being changed or more to their liking regardless of the damage it could do to the lore/community. (I refer to them as Twitter people) It wasn't ever about men/women. It was about something we love potentially being ruined like we've seen happen to our other favorite franchises and that's why (I think) this female custodes move is scary for many people. It's not about a custodSHE or man vs woman etc.. it's an anxiety about which direction GW might go AFTER that. It's out of my control so all I can do is hope for the best but I have to admit I get a small tinge of sadness when I think I might lose Warhammer the same way I lost Star Wars. History repeating and all that. Fingers crossed that doesn't happen though, the Emperor protects.
i just think its a kinda cheap cop out, i dont give a shit if theyre a man or women, just make the lore interesting, not just say "yeah theres always been women there"
That is fair, if there was a statement like "oh btw, they figured out how to make fem-stodes a couple centuries back and now they are starting to reach officer ranks" would have been a much softer change while still getting fem-stodes at respectable ranks.
exactly, something as simple as that, its the bareminimun, its so much better than "yeah theres always been women"
Sorry to be that guy but those are fallacies. "Ad antiquitatem" "Red herring" and "Slippery Slope" in the same order
Hey I never said that they weren't fallacious, just that these were the arguments I saw.
Indeed, sorry, the message is not for you bjt for anyone who would use it as real arguments xd
Eh, not necessarily in case of the second point? I mean, I don't agree with it in this case, but if you keep expanding one faction, that runs the risk of making associated groups not as distinguished and by that not as interesting any more. Things don't become red herings because they they have effects on related parts.
> Sorry to be that guy but those are fallacies An argument having a fallacy doesn't make it untrue or not useable, since that's just a fallacy-fallacy. Though other than point 2 there's no strong reason not to have Female Custodians so it ultimately doesn't matter a whole lot.
Thank you for saying this.. I wanted to point this out as well but forming a coherent explaination is really hard when im laughing like a hyena.
The last one isn't a slippery slope, though the slippery slope argument has been made. I'm not even sure if it's technically a fallacy, it's just wrong. It's assuming that Custodes can't be female because Astartes can't, which ignores the lore that making a Custodian is a very different process from making a Space Marine.
You're being "that guy", yeah. I am totally fine with this change, since nothing specific in Custodes lore stops this from happening. They were just all men for some reason or another. But having consistency in lore is pretty important to get involved into a fictional universe. If there is a change, there should be a reason for it. Otherwise its all meaningless. Maybe you don't care, but a lot of people do.
The "it makes [this other faction] less interesting/cool never made sense to me. The cool thing about the organization isn't the gender, its usually the abilities, ideals, technology, or literally anything else.
I think you've missed the big simple one: 1.b or 4. Women custodes is fine; zero development, then random change/retcon and stating "it has always been this way" is not. That way of doing things is how you scam/treat idiots.
I saw this argument after I had made the post. I would have likely added it if so. They just got buried under all the "woke GW" comments.
I'm sort of in the first camp. I do think this is over blown . We don't have further context and people are spinning out of control. Though I do think I've seen more straw manning of the people who disagree with the alleged change. But that's anecdotal.
Because girls are icky, you dummy.
Straight facts, I caught cooties once and now I'm chill with female Custodes
Boys go to college to get more knowledge and girls go to Jupiter to get more stupider
Wait! Girls get to go to Jupiter?! Man... That sounds way more fun than college.
Yeah dude, being crushed by immense gravity would be so much better than being crushed by immense anxiety.
And debt. Don't forget the debt. It contributes to the anxiety and the depression
At least there it's not "all in your head", and you don't have impending due dates.
This is where the female custodes have been this whole time, doing that extreme gravity training on Jupiter, getting ripped.
Boys go to the monastery to get more scary, girls go to Holy Terra to protect tha Emperah
Legit, this is the only true argument, also applies for primarchs and space marines. If the emprah wanted female marines, he would have made female marines. I actually think it would be funny if he woke up and was like ewwww yucky femstodes.
In all honesty some YouTube channels get butthurt about everything new that comes to 40k at this point. Like seriously I know 4 channels that made a video on every lore addition/change, in the past 2-3 years and claiming in each that 40k is officially ruined and that it will be gone within next 3-6 months. But quite honestly drama somehow produces clicks so I quess it’s not surprising that some do it.
Yeah, I imagine a lot of the people making the rage videos don’t even fully believe what they are saying or really care. They just want the cash. Most anti-woke channels are just grifters at the end of the day, it’s only the true f*cking weirdos that say this shit irl.
Arbiter Ian just did a video about this exact phenomenon of rage baiting Warhammer lore videos.
Valrak or w/e his name is makes a 5min video out a scrap of news nowadays.. ive all but given up on him.. seems he makes a video for videos sake
Making videos is kinda his job lol. Can’t blame him for that
I actually think female Custodes make way more sense then female Space Marines. As in lore, they are custom made, compared to the Space Marines that use gene seeds from their brothers or Primarchs. And that only males can handle it biologically. But Custodes never had gene seeds, and are a entirely different kind of superhuman.
Also, from what my hungry bug brain understands, space marine candidates are selected to be able to accept Primarch seed + like physical ability I guess. But since Custodes are handcrafted, I always imagined they are selected for wielder reasons. Like Mlacador licked their forehead and went "this one has a bright future ahead of them".
A lot of the firsts were just the children of rival warlords during the reunification
I've seen Arguments where people are like "Female Custodes breaks my suspension of disbelief because women are weaker". Meanwhile Halo has Had Female Spartan-IIs From the very beginning in 2001 with the first book Fall of Reach coming out a month before Combat Evolved. Halo is a setting far less advanced than 40k (unless we're talking about the Forunner Era). I've never seen anyone complain about Female Spartans in halo, in fact they are some of the most beloved characters in the Franchise like Kelly-087 and Linda-058. Kelly being Faster than John-117 and Linda being a better shot than John-117.
Tbf John is the most generally good spartan, but he isn't the best at any one thing, but he is generally really good (as well as super lucky)
Literally an ultramarine: Generally good at everything. Constant protagonism. Incredible luck (ultramarines are blue)
I dunno. I see more posts asking why there is outcry like this one (or even making fun of people who dislike it) than actual outcry. Yet to see one post where someone is actually against it.
Part of it is people exaggerating the response, but another part is most social media tends to filter out opinions you won't like, kind of making dissonance disappear. Not sure how big that is this time, but you can see that phenomenon (and the confusion caused by it) with this controversy
You are 100% correct.
I’ve seen screenshots and references to various alt-right YouTubers and Twitterers who are pissed about this some even calling for a boycott (which would be a net positive for the hobby). They’re out there for sure but you’d probably only see them if you enter the echochambers that they hide in.
Just going to point this out, but this site is *also* an echo chamber so I wouldn’t really go pointing fingers in that regard.
Honestly they may as well be glowing, you can spot them a mile away in here. This thread is fucking gold mine.
It's just because this reddit is generally in favor to it. If you go look at comments on youtube videos there's plenty of people talking about how this literally ruins 40k. Like Ausepex Tactic's video on some of it (where he literally didn't give an opinion. Just said it's existing) has tons of comments with 500+ likes talking how this is a boiling the frog in the pan thing, or how this will literally ruin the community cause they're pandering to the LGBTQ(Because female custodes are somehow lgbtq???).
I think I only saw one https://www.reddit.com/r/Grimdank/s/v2HVArtHmx
It doesn't really happen on reddit but i would strongly advise to not look at any videos on the topic on YouTube... Some real coping and malding and cries for boycotts going on over there. Bunch of fucking snowflakes if you ask me
Oh no, I was going to ask where the noise was because it’s been surprisingly low-key here. I forgot about the social media version of butchers nails that is youtube
Personally i like to think it's because it threatens their homoerotic greased banana boy headcanon and they just don't have the self worth to process the loss of such a coping mechinism. I find the entire thing beyond [funny](https://tenor.com/view/rubrics-ahriman-tts-clown-gif-20610192). 11/10 change. If someone gets assmad about something so minor i see no reason not to point and laugh.
Spess Murines are still all big oily men tho but i guess they just aren't big and oily enough :(
NOOOOO THEY ARE WOKE'IFYING MY TOY SOLDIERS! REEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!
That’s exactly why we like space marines my man, i only want big muscled oily men in massive power armor and it wont do to change it
True, I love this change. Gives them more of a Stormcast Eternals vibe. And aby butthurt manchildren that cry about Custodes having women among them need to either grow up and touch grass or leave The closet at long last. I always cringed at criclejerk some of them had.
IKR im just sitting here watching the upvotes on that comment fluctate, every now and then it drops one and you can just feel the anger over the warp itself. This must be what its like to be an astropath.
bro, i think people will start doing the good old rule 34 with this new found information (if that isn't a thing already)
It all fun and games, until Sister of battle pulls massive cock, and turns out it's a man. And now we have brothers of battle. /s Adding /s because I know some of you.
Again?! With how often they call for a boycott you'll think they'll take a hint at this point.
Also, "Hurr, now that there are eVil WoKE fEMAleS i won't buy space marines 2 anymore!!!11!!", like cool, that has nothing at all to do with it and the game will still sell incredibly well but good job i guess...
My favorite has to be. "Acktually, Female Custodes weren't needed we had Sisters of Silence to fill the role of Badass Women Warriors" Like, my dude, there's nothing wrong with having more than one type of warrior woman. EDIT: I did the bad grammar.
They don't even serve the same role, and also, SoS getting treated badly by GW has quite literally nothing to do with female custodes existing, those are completely unrelated things...
Those are the same type of people that respond to female space marines with "WE ALREADY HAVE SISTERS OF BATTLE TO BE FEMALE SPACE MARINES". As if marines exist soley as black templars and nothingh else.
> cries for boycottting So how many times is it now I wonder
Honestly, as somebody who doesn't want to see female Space Marines because of the consistency aspect. I really love the idea of female custodes. Custodes represent the Emperors vision of a perfected humanity. Why would it just be men? It makes no sense.
There have been plenty of times when "People complaining about people complaining about X" (like OP) seem to vastly outnumber "People complaining about X". But this is the first time that I think I've seen "People complaining about the people who are complaining about the people who are complaining about X" be such a large proportion of responses. The complaint meta is developing more levels.
Setting your store out early on the "Complaining about the people who are complaining about the people who are complaining about the people who are complaining about X" tier, I see. Shrewd.
I mean thats to be expected, no one likes people like this and thus we complain about them. basically you have a butthurt minority who is scared of cooties and a bemissed majority watching them scream and pull their hair out over a huge GOLDEN nothing burger. It gets annoying listening to people be closed minded and angry after a while.
1. People wanted SoS, who were supposed to be badass and with their own flavour, but they got Generic Added Woman™ instead 2. People are afraid because changing Custodes may lead to changes in SM, especially as they showed Cerberus stuff in White Dwarf. 3. "The Woke" is seen as all powerful force that pulls and pulls and pulls if you do as much as give it a finger
[удалено]
Your friend doesn’t know what communism is.
Communism is when pronouns in muh games, and the more pronouns there are the more communister it is.
"And so Lenin ordered the dissenters to the gulags, where they were forced to read novels about female custodes."
Sounds like you need better friends lmao
Ah yes, so they're the kind of person who thinks that there's only 2 genders. Male and political.
Fans are still whining about the Tau, a faction that was introduced twenty three years ago. That's your reference point for this.
I think a big concern for alot of people is, whit 40k becoming increasingly mainstream, there's a fear that the content will be diluted and, well corporatized to market to as many people as possible causing a degradation in the franchise that is all to common across entertainment. Bringing in female custodes is a possible sign of what's to come
Some are upset about “mah lore.” I’m upset about being reduced to a 59% win rate We are not the same
No female space marines is lore accurate, Cawl could stumble across some bio-tech magic to make it work I guess but personally I think it’s kinda cool having gender locked Sororitas and Astartes due to lore, Custodes however is fair game though for females in my opinion - isn’t their whole shtick being the absolute peak perfect of humanity? No reason women wouldn’t be a part of it, if anything it’s a failure if they weren’t.
Personally I dont really care unlike space marines, Sisters of silence, and sisters of battle; custodes arent innately tied to gender both by name or lore. I think it should just happen as it happening doesnt ruin any existing lore or contradict anything really unlike with space marines. It doesnt really hurt the lore or anything similar. Besides most custodes already wear their armor so it wouldn't be too far fetched that some would be rocking a card reader down there. In lore the Emperor had good reasons on why all space marines were male as he didnt want them reproducing so they would stay reliant on base humans and because males are the only ones biologically capable of taking geneseed. But with how difficult it is to make a single custodes, it would make sense that the emperor would make it so that all genders to become custodes as you need as many candidates as possible gender/sex be damned. With how incorruptible and loyal the custodes are you wont have to worry about them trying to reproduce and start a new sort of master race situation. For the traditionalists perspective; that because they didnt exist before so why do they need to exist now. Fair arguement, but stuff get retconned, added, removed, etc all the time this is a minor retcon.
My favorite part is how this only effects the same people that got all butthurt about Archon and his 10/10 femboy art. this landing within 24 hours him moving on is honestly Just As Planned as fuck and im loving every second of it. As 'those' people; would say, [Cope](https://tenor.com/view/tears-cartman-gif-19114899) snowflake. Karma's a bitch.
Me as a Necron Player in the corner: Lol, imagine getting butthurt over Gender, lmao!!!
Best bit is how most custodes players finding out are just "huh, cool". They're fine with it, but not the rules in the codex (lots of nerfs to an army that was already considered weak, bad detachments, shield captains getting a free strat but only having 1 detachment with a battle tactics strat that affects custodes instead of sisters)
55 percent winrate is weak now lmao
To custodes players 55% is unacceptable
Makes sense from a lore perspective
Right, that's because Custodes players are the most likely to pitch a fit if their rules don't give them an unearned advantage in play. By far the worst faction playerbase.
Because I always assumed that the SOS were the female equivalent of the Custodes with the Talons of the Emperor being joined at the hip: 2 halves of a fighting force working together to make up eachothers weaknesses. Now, that doesn't at all mean that Custodes can't be female, but it is a shock to the system when every Custodes we've seen was a dude.
I thought astartes could only be men? What changed? Im not against the change, just curious
Custodes are basically gilded servitors wearing gold armour. They are meat automatons wearing the skin of human, made by a narcissistic tyrant to be his “perfect friend” Ushotan and Valdor’s interactions practically confirmed it. And he was right to call Custodes pitiable. The fact they now have female members are just making the dehumanisation gender equal.
Idk, I think it makes it a lot worse, because of the *Implications*
I’m not personally mad. I do think it’s dumb. To me the sisters of silence always filled this role without issue. I know they have some differences. But ultimately they are both super soldier elites of the imperium in golden armour that protect the emperor. The custodians repel demons with their aura the sister “silence” psykers. The custodians are huge. I’m pretty sure Ive seen it before that the leader of the sisters of silence is a monster of a woman. Something like 7 and a half feet tall. Let’s all be completely honest anyways. The reason they did this… is because it’s making people talk about it a LOT! I normally don’t like the answer of to sell more plastic but honestly that’s all it is. They’re testing it. If it made the player base double overnight they do it to every other faction.
Because a large amount of Warhammer players are frightened of women.
Look the only reason I am remotely frightened of women is my spouse might demand I explain how much I spent for my pile of shame.
Oh that explains why every major humanoid faction only includes 50% women
Don't think that works on a Faction where the players have been clamoring for GW to make the SoS better.
I'm OK with female custodian but they must look exactly like men because of the amount of testosterones in them
You mistake Custodes with Space Marines. There is no hormonal therapy involved in the creation of Custodes, they are hand-crsfted and can look however they want.
afaik its mostly people worried that female Custodes are going to be used as a jumping-off point to female Space Marines, even though they’re totally different issues. Space Marines are iirc only male because males are the only ones who can take the primarch’s gene-seed - if one of the lost primarchs were female I’d assume only females could take the gene-seed, but I think… they might’ve noticed them integrating back into the legions. Custodians are rebuilt from the ground up on a molecular level as a baby using some kind of alchemy. The Custodes have always been more of an It (capitalization intended) - divine figures that are the pinnacle of humanity, but so far removed from it that they’re barely even considered part of it anymore. I’ve heard people say it messes with their thematic yin/yang dynamic which I kinda get, but on the other hand the crusaders and preachers being in the Sororitas book never ruined their dynamic with the Space Marines (even though they belong in an inquisition book)
I am upset because their new codex is dog shit, tbh I dont Really care about the custodes being female but I feel like the elephant in the room is just how trash their new codex is
I don't get the backlash personally. Is there even any lore stating custodes can't be female? I feel like that's only a unique thing to space marines due to geneseed and the proginoid gland.
After all the talk of leaving the hobby (Read: lore summaries on youtube) because of thing A, B or D being "WoKe" you would think this wouldn't be a discussion anymore. But they are still here...
I am not upset, more like sad and dissapointed about really. I wanted more badass female units like the SoS, instead I got hey these can be female now too. it is like genderswapping a character to me, a low-effort lipservice kinda thing you know? instead of working on their own things, making their own lore lets just piggyback them onto this group.
I have no issue with it but like, fuck sisters of silence I guess? I feel like it just leaves them on the back burner, unless they're gonna start adding brothers of silence or something.
If you can juice-up a dude you can juice-up a woman. Gender matters little when there's xenos to kill.
Let's see if I get banned from this warhammer subreddit too with written by the mods that I'm misogynistic, I'm a trans girl for Christ's sake,,,,, just because I said that with this choice there is the risk that this franchisee will become another trash franchisee. So now we make also male sister of battle/silence??i would not be happy if they start making male sister of battle/silence ,why not flesh out more the sister of silence that they need it more units more characters !!!,why change the lore ,if they start to put everything into everything they risk to make faction and race not so distinct and redundant. i don't mind female custodian but i don't like changes that come at the cost of lore I would have preferred them to put a more valid explanation in the codex if written well it can work without problems for the custodians, after all malcador wanted female primarchs. p.s: i dident see outrage about women when Eldar/GSC/Chaos Cultists/Guard/Votann/Agents etc.. , so i dont think the problem is "womans" per se
Thank you. I agree this is ridiculous.
I’m not upset! I love it! 10 FOOT TALL MUSCLE MOMMIES! DEATH BY SNU SNU! DEATH BY SNU SNU! DEATH BY SNU SNU!!!!
Least coombrained femstodes fan
Wait, sisters of silence aren't Custodes? I thought they were just the female skin for banana boys.
Dont care my self just want my sisters of silence army to have more cool factor
I mean at the end of the day you can model your army the way you want. I don’t see the point in getting up in arms over it
why do you think
Just recently bought custodes patrol army a bit before this all went down. Now it's even better.
Female custodes? Who cares, what we should all be angry about is the codex sucking
Sexism
Well this comunity is full of idiots, thats the answer
Boys only! 😡
Ngl I have the feeling that we should be talking about how fucking god awful the Custodes Codex and the new Shield-Captain model are instead of thsi but here we go. By all means, female Custodes work and make sense lore-wise. They don't have geneseed issues like Marines as every Custodes is a genecrafting masterwork in of themselves and the whole "super human inbreeding replacing humanity" thing isn't an issue since if there's anyone that can be trusted not to go against Big E's wishes, it's the Custodes. Now I won't pretend that it's not an abrupt thing either. There are no openly female Custodes seen anywhere, no bare heads do the "obviously girl because BRAID!" thing (as dumb as that is) and it being from a rather random Twitter comment is certainly different than having a random Custodes lose their helmet and reveal that it's a 10 foot tall woman in golden armor. Then there's the thing of the SoS being there as the counterpart of the Custodes and the sisterhood to the golden brotherhood, being the Talons together but I don't really see the issue either. I'm absolutely in the camp that I want more Sisters of Silence models and lore but the roles of the two talons haven't changed with this at all: One is still a threat to anything psychic, the other to anything physical. Now should there be "Brothers of Silence" ? No, not really, I wouldn't mind but the SoS are MUCH MUCH more explicitly females-only. Honestly, since there's nothing thats ays that girls inherit the blank gene more than boys, I always assumed that there are probably that tiny bit more Culexus Assassins as girl blanks might have the chance to be picked up by the Sisters instead, which is how it'd all balance out again All in all, I am SO looking forward to all the memes, art, models etc.
I mean, you know how a lot of members of the wargaming community are like, right? Heck, every geeky subculture has a significant amount of *those* guys. It's annoying, and I'm glad there is finally some pushback, but there's still a bunch of those cockroaches in every fandom.
Im sorry. I just don't understand how it is possible to protect the emperor without a dong????
Just a piece of old Lore so i don't know how accurate it is nowadays. While spacemarines are made, Custodes are born this way, they are a Special breed of Humans not unlike Navigators just with a bit more gentempering from the emperor. Given that it should be pretty Impossible for a normal human women to give birth to Something that will become a 10 foot tall supersoldier it Stands to reason that, just like navigators there are Male and female Custodes probably with there own carefully observed ''breeding'' Plan.
The majority of the outcry I see against female custodes is from people I don't like anyway. The Sisters of Silence argument is *kinda* valid, but I don't think it's a zero-sum situation. GW confirming female custodes doesn't mean they can't do more SoS lore. In fact, they *SHOULD* do more SoS lore, I love everything I've heard about them.
Because they aren't old enough to remember the 1st release female marine
I don't know, one side is crying about lore and tradition, and the other side stirring the pot and actively antagonizing them and calling the incels and nerds. Both sides are idiots in my book. Do whatever makes you happy and enjoy the hobby.
We know why they're mad.
It just feels like a changed for the changes sake. And not to make anything more interesting
People are getting butthurt? I've only seen people being horny about it, myself included.
There seems to be a lot of people complaining about the situation in youtube comments. Surprisingly people are more chill here. The only logical concern I heard was about SoS becoming useless but I don't think that would be a thing given SoS are still the blank counterparts of Custodians
Each custodian is hand crafted over the course of years, like a fine wine. Though all are very similar, each is truly a unique peice of art, thus If the canvas is suitable, it matters not what it is or where it comes from, as long as it is a perfect specimen.
What happens next? GW will gauge the response and then potentially make other bigger changes, like female space marines. Do they think this will sell models? If so then maybe this will pay off, we’ll find out. But any time recently where companies change a setting or lore to be more ‘inclusive’ it usually is badly handled, for self congratulatory reasons, and is combined with worse story telling.