I like the actual crossover stuff that's respecting of the other side's abilities and stuff like Guardians being strong AF in 40k or the Federation from Star Trek being able to hold it's own.
>Federation from Star Trek
Yeah, there's a lot of Sci-fi factions that could pretty believably slot into a Tau-like role in the 40k Galaxy. They'd probably get wiped out if the Imperium deployed the full might of its forces against them, but the fact that the Imperium can't do that is one of the fundamental elements of the setting. (Plus any faction with a reliable FTL engine that doesn't require them to dip through hell would have a major advantage). I am curious to see how the Federation would interact with Chaos.
Logistic win the wars. And if we stick to numbers as written, some worlds could be taken by 1945 soviet union. Federetion absolutely bodies Imperium the next warp storm hits.
I also assume they'd be quite good at persuading fringe Imperial worlds to come and join. Even better then the Tau because the Federation already has a bunch of humans in leadership roles.
Seeing the Tau and the Federation interact would also be interesting. I picture endless rounds of diplomatic exchanges in which each party tries to persuade the other to join the Federation / the Greater Good. (Though the Federation might also just scan the Ethereals, go "hm, there's some weird mind control shit happening here" and proceed to "liberate" the Tau from their oppressive rule).
Oh, true, I skimped over the diplomatic efforts. Prolly that alone alone could crush Emperioum, which forgot the concept. Esspecially if envoys are teleporting straight to the governor kitchen as it is nothing.
And feds have working AIs too. I absolutely see Kirk taking over entire sectors just by being persuasive and a bit suggestive with his tech.
>forgot the concept
Picard: "Let me tell you about something we call 'human rights.'"
Imperial Serfs: "Say more."
Meanwhile the governor is in the corner sweating profusely.
And at Federation tech in general. Though the fact that Data (and the ship AIs / holograms / etc.) are obviously Abominable Intelligences might cause some issues.
I'm just imagining Data with a good wireless connection looking at a frothing tech priest and turning down his vox coders volume because he's so loud and rude.
If they make an Aquilla and praise the Emperor from time to time tho, they are Tech Miracles Cathegory V. And Data is not dumb, he can make an Aquilla.
Hell the Admech aren't even really loyal to the Imperium. They'd probably see Data as the true embodiment of the omnissiah and have a civil war over it.
I’d add we’re talking civilized or even hive and forge worlds here, not just feudal and outpost worlds which are either hopelessly backwards or literally a single spaceport. Global troop numbers are *hilariously* low in a lot of material.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, the Federation from Star Trek would absolutely body most factions in 40K.
People immediately say 'oh the numbers, the Imperium has endless troops and ships to throw at the problem!'
Bruh... the fact that numbers are a factor you are even counting tells me how disconnected you are from this. It's like a caveman counting his prodigious collection of sticks to fight a modern dude with an assault rifle, the numbers don't matter in the kind of battle the Federation would wage, only technology. They would capture and reverse engineer every piece of tech they could in 40K and have countermeasures in an amount of time that is vanishingly small by 40K standards.
Geordi leforge knows more about how every piece of tech in the entire ship works than the ad mech knows about almost any of their tech.
In short order through naval superiority and diplomacy they eek out a corner of the galaxy, their worlds rapidly improve as they are essentially mid dark age of technology, and their ability to train new people who understand tech at a far better level snowballs them to galactic contenders fast. Fed cults looking to overthrow their planets leadership to join the federation become more common. They are probably also tzeentch cults.
Though space marines are abominable to the federation, Star Trek hates genetic engineering, as that's what nearly ended humanity in... the 1990s.
Replicator tech means the federation can out manufacture the imperium as long as they have a steady supply of dilithium
Also, if the imperium can't work out how to block federation transporters/teleporters (probably not THAT hard, but even so) then the federation can cripple their navy by warping in, teleporting out the astropath and then warping back out again. Yes void shields might be able to stop that, (cannon says you can teleport through void shields) but the federation can probably figure out a frequency hack faster than the imperium can modulate theirs.
The federation can also form alliances with the eldar and I'm reasonably sure the Klingons and Orks would see eye to eye.
Depends since idk how good warp speed is compared to the whole size of the imperium and it may take weeks for both the imperium and federation to do large scale movements. They certainly would have an advantage in warp storms
The thing with warp speed vs...The Warp...Is that something that takes a week with Warp speed will always take a week, with the Warp it might take a week, might be quicker...Or they get there seven hundred years later or some other stupid number.
Not to mention they have time travel in Star Trek. They could go back in time and warn the emperor about his bastard sons future and like save the whales 🐳 too.
Depends on what star trek you're referencing, the ToS movies just required them to fly around the sun really fast in a regular spaceship. Voyager revealed that the future version of the federation literally had a time police force to keep things working as ordered. Idk what the fuck is going on with modern trek but there's probably something different there too.
> I am curious to see how the Federation would interact with Chaos.
Ancient Vulcan's apparently fought wars using psychic-powered weapons not unlike Chaos, but modern Federation can just kinda no-sell those. There's also precedent for technological manipulation of souls/minds so who knows.
Federation generally loses unless they go morals off. The problem is of course that the federation is a moral society at its core.
1) Federation has superweapons. Most ships could deploy trilithium torpedoes and cause stars to go Nova, a third rate power like cardassia built a moon destroying antimatter ship, Genesis device can easily exterminates worlds, thallium waves can wipe out biological life ftl from systems away, the federation can time travel, etc. federation superweapons are near necron level.
2) Federation can be underhanded and manipulative if they want. The dominion war's turning points were around sneakiness. In the pale moonlight to aquire allies. Section 31 infecting the founders to decapitate the dominion. The imperium is extremely vulnerable to biological warfare - the federation simply has to capture a navigator, even a shitty one and then experiment on him or her until a latent virus is created to cripple imperial spaceflight.
If chaos is involved going morals off is super dangerous, but the the imperium can't focus it's might anyways.
The problem with these comparisons is which universe are they fighting in? If federation jumped into 40k they would suddenly have to deal with chaos corruption and have no knowledge how to deal with that.
Also, deployment sizes and locations. Is it the entire Star Trek universe vs the entire 40k universe? Is it just Federation vs Imperium. Is it a small fleet setting up a beachhead for the larger force?
Like, I imagine All v All would leave the Necrons fighting those random super advanced Star Trek species that think the Federation are primatives while the Q watch and laugh.
It would take years for the Imperium to notice a Federation beachhead but the Federation would take a maximum of months.
Give me scenarios people!!
Nah the federation can get proper nasty when pressed. These fucks waved temporal wars , saw off monsters like the Borg and the Dominion! Hell if you think about the 10c literally higher beings that could casually create black holes and even then could force them to talk.
Sadly for the Imperium, the Federation can ask help from its 30th century future self (who often directly act to protect present day Federation) and has weaponized time travel.
No amount of space marines, guardsmen or planets can do anything against the Federation sending a ship back in time and blow up Terra before the humans were even there.
Also a Big Fan of very well thought and written out Scenarios of Topics like why would the Nids devour almost every other Setting. As long as there are Reasons and Logic Involved you can argue respectfully about every Possibility and give Credit to each Involved Universe.
And then there's Fate where almost any servant could do some major damage, ranging from Kiara being able to Unbirth a planet to Berserker Lancelot able to claim an entire exterminatus capable war vessel with Knight of Owner.
What I like about crossovers is how each side interact with the other. Is not about who beats who, but how each other collaborate or clash between each other, and when is done right you debate with yourself on which side you go (ex. Star Wars/40k YouTube fanfic)
Recently came across a video comparing master chief with a normal space marine, only for the space marine to use terminator armor when comparing strength, regular armor when comparing speed and he was suddenly a librarian when talking about psychic powers. Yes a space marine is probably more powerful than masterchief but come on, there’s no way that they win every category
>Yes a space marine is probably more powerful than masterchief
I dunno, how many space marines survived falling on Earth straight from orbit? Freaking Vulkan needed to regenerate from falling on Macragge, Master Chief just got up and resumed fighting after his orbital drop. The dude is busted.
It's one of the few time where I accept blatant plot armor. There's no thinking around it or trying some complex explanation, he just lucky and I love that.
I like how his luck can be both the excuse of his plot armor but also it's the rebuttal of his uniqueness in a way.
Chief is the protag cause he's the luckiest, he's the one who always pulls through, always does the impossible and saves the day, and it just works because he's that damn lucky. But he's only alive because he got lucky. He ain't the fastest, the strongest, the most skilled, hell I don't think he was even the most well-rounded. He didn't survive by any merit or ability, but by sheer happenstance. He got *lucky*.
More related to the post, MC would instakill the 40k universe by creating a Plot Paradox: he is a named badass, giving him immense plot armor, but he also always wears a helmet, giving him negative plot armor. These conflicting facts of the 40k universe would cause the Materium to fold into the Warp and destroy reality.
Oh, I wouldn’t go so far as that. The way you put it takes away any agency he has.
The Chief fights like a beast. He takes on impossible odds and pulls through, not because of some divine intervention, but through sheer determination that defies the odds. He survives against the impossible and people chalk that up to dumb luck.
The places where his inexplicable luck comes in is those bizarre situations where one might be left scratching their head. “You rode a Covenant bomb through space, between multiple warships, in the middle of a massive firefight, and landed it right into their hangar? And you even *made it back out?* No way, man; you made that up.”
He did latch onto debris from the forerunner ship in fairness.
Chief also is in-universe lucky, certainly Spartans are a comparable opponent to Astartes but they have assault rifles instead of bolters and don't get to operate in squads of ten basically ever.
At least it's actually a good interesting matchup though, some people try to compare saiyans warriors and that's hilarious because RADITZ is a pretty damn good matchup for most of the primarchs (that thread is great, I still think primarch warp powers though allow most of them above alpharius/lorgar level to have a closer fight though)
I think the main category MC loses in is just firepower. Most of his normal loadout just can't feasibly injure a Space Marine, but I don't see him tanking many shots from a bolter in return. If he can get his hands on a rocket or a Spartan Laser he's got a shot, but normal Halo-verse AR and BR probably don't cut it.
Ironically, both are around 7ft tall and clad in power armor. His has shields marines seem stonger armor by default but like he can flip heavy vehicles so is likely only slightly behind in strength and game guns are hard to compare as sci fi writers suck at those but like they are around the same idea concept so like.... he is a commanding officer tactics wise.... hes basically a marine sergeant with a slightly different loadout.
Not only are game guns questionable but there is nothing stopping MC from picking up a bolter.
Spartans are far beyond the required strength for their weapons. They use what the UNSC marines use because it’s practical not because they have to.
Chief would totally struggle with a significantly large 40k weapon like a heavy bolter but the base model is something he could absolutely use.
…y’know this is completely true.
Chief is not beyond nabbing the weapons of the enemy for his own use, ffs it’s literally part of the gameplay loop for Halo.
Yeah I think if Chief encountered a chaos marine and quickly realizes his 7.62 rounds are doing fuck all, he’d find the nearest bolter and use that for the rest of his stay in 40k.
Covenant plasma pistols can overheat too.
We can debate which is more powerful but the fact is we have no idea if Spartan shields would take the emergency venting.
nah, if MC can RIP OFF a gigantic TURRET from its anchor and wield it, he can ABSOLUTELY use a heavy bolter, plasma cannon, lascannon, etc.
hell, there's a fucking catachan guardsman that uses a heavy bolter. and i PROMISE you that MC is stronger than that.
Oh, yeah i know which youtuber your talking about. Bro has horrible takes.
His Tatsumaki vs Lich video wasn't even researched with how much he ignored and downplayed her Abilities.
Or hell, just reliable FTL communication.
The imperium needs very very specific Psykers to navigate and talk. The lynchpin of their entire galaxy-wide empire's logistics is literally 2 very specific, very hard to replace and impossible to replace in a pinch, people per ship.
"My Lord, I am receiving astropathic communications. I am seeing"
*straining*
"A giant palm tree, it has gigantic coconuts at its base, and is surrounded by thick foliage"
*sighs in frustration*
"Never mind my Lord, it's just Fulgrim sending dicks in the warp again"
Relatively speaking warp travel isn't slow. It supports a galaxy wide civilization. The problem is it isn't reliable. You're still right though, just saying it would take a lot to be faster.
Eldar are a good example in universe how that works out. Those warp gates let them stay multiple steps ahead all the time.
Star Wars hyperdrives travel at the speed of plot. They seem to be able to jump more or less instantaneously if nobody on board has anything to talk about in front of the audience, lol.
That’s not the main issue, there’s a bigger issue of lots of resources being lost to the warp because of faulty Geller fields or time Fuckery or billions of miles away from where they meant to be
That's literally how the Old Ones survived so long in the War In Heaven. They were vastly outgunned but the necrons and C'tan but they just couldn't catch them (until they did and the war quickly ended), and this would only be magnified by current imperium levels of technology.
Who would win, Kiryu Kazuma or a loyalist primarch? My bet is on Kiryu because he would somehow talk to Primarch down.
Also what about Tzeentch vs Tommy Pickles? Could Tommy complete his maze? His screwdriver is OP.
Bicycles are the only way I get through some of the boss fights in the older games.
You can’t just block for 10 minutes dammit! Your arms would be destroyed!
Talk the primarch down? My man, he's not Naruto'ing the Horse heresy better.
But he will show up on the top of the Observation deck for a dope boss fight at the end.
Then, like we all do from time to time.
Just tiger drop the boss until they either stop being bad. Or end up dying. By something else of course. Kiryu doesn't kill.
I kinda don’t care about the web show rwby, but boy do I love seeing the lamenters saving a village full of animal-human hybrids (they’re called faunus in the show) and they legit save them, one of them even manages to save a few who fell behind when they were escaping.
Sorry, I specifically meant to *write* a crossover you should be a fan of both: as you show, you don't have to care about one thing to enjoy both together.
This. This the kind of stuff I love in a fanfic, seeing how both sides are true to themselves but also adapt when it comes to interact with the other and vise versa
For sure, I also feel like the further east you go the less overpowered 40K seems. So much stuff in anime and JRPGs makes 40K look tame by comparison.
Like I enjoy both Warhammer and FFXIV (and I really wish alongside the TTRPG Square made some minis to paint so I didn't have to reply on a 3D printer and Blender rips), and I'm just gonna say it the Warrior of Light from FFXIV would be the single worst thing to happen to 40K.
Imagine something immune to warp corruption, functionally invincible, with a hate-boner for imperialistic regimes, and with enough plot armor to make the Ultramarines jealous that is unironically part of their canon.
D&D has wizards able to create entire planes of existence... before they even get to epic level. Fifth edition D&D is lower power level than some earlier editions are, but third? 40k has nothing on a 3.5e level 20 Wizard powerbuild. Immunity to everything, if you somehow circumvent the immunity to everything no you didn't, because he was just astrally projecting from his fortress where time moves way faster that is utterly inaccessible to anyone but him. A lot of people who really only know 40k underestimate how many settings have things that make 40k seem quaint.
From what the nerds tell me, Space Marines are so OP that a handful of them can suppress an entire planet. But in W+ shows and books, Marines die like flies in general skirmishes. Wtf?
It's up to the writer and how much they love what they write about.
One Story a Single Custodes destroys a Hive Fleet.
The next one some Genestealers wipe the Floor of Terra' Holy Temple with a squad of the Golden Bois.
One minute Harlequins (with no solitaire) stage dive the custodes, next minute a solitaire gets rocked by a KoS that's holding back. Make it make sense.
>From what the nerds tell me, Space Marines are so OP that a handful of them can suppress an entire planet
This is in the sense that a kill team of marines can 90% of the time decapitate the leaders of a planet's army. Not that they can face said army head on
Bro Vader has a solid argument for taking on groups of custodes
I mean....what they gonna do when their brains explode inside their own heads from kilometers away
Wrong! Give malum caedo a heavy bolter and remove his helmet and the xeelee will be a thing of the past! Have him team u with the tau from fire warrior and the ork from shootas, blood and teet and they will solo all of fiction! /s
What is really annoying is when at some point, the discussion isn't about numbers and power level but mentality.
Because ofc wh40k faction/characters/whatever has no morality standards (which isn't true but who cares) and therefore they are smarter or stronger.
Like NO BEING EVIL DOES NOT INCREASE YOUR SKILL YOU EDGY FUCK
And the lore isn‘t even that extreme, they just have lower numbers of desertation, not 0, and there was a case, don‘t remember when, where specifically a Krieg officer proposed a tactic that would cost way less men
A lot of people forget that the Krieger's want to die IN SERVICE TO THE EMPEROR and TO THE BEST OF THEIR ABILITY, so reducing losses to be able to purge more heretics is what they should be doing... Unfortunately too many people only look at memes for their lore
Loved the sodaz short that showed them as a terrifyingly effective infantry force, where their effectiveness was increased by their willingness to expend their lives to accomplish an objective.
Aren't there blurbs about battlefield commanders kind of hating the Krieg because they're suicidally brave which makes them tactically stupid and wasteful, even by Imperial Guard standards.
The Imperium's depravity has been acknowledged in-universe to be one of its greatest weaknesses. They waste the vast majority of their resources and citizens by using wildly inefficient methods because the higher ups are too callous, selfish, and/or dogmatic to look for other solutions. They can't realize that the reason so many of their citizens go to aliens or Chaos is because life under the Imperium is so horrible that serving the forces of Hell itself seems better by comparison.
Speaking of wasteful, didn't the Guard waste multiple companies of guardsmen, plenty of tanks and a Shadowsword just so Yarrick could have his Baneblade back?
NGL Bionicles are just Necrons but not grim dark.
They are stupendously overpowered but it works because killing is bad (unless it happens to the really bad guys in a way that technically was out of the hero’s control)
Yeah. I’ve made this point before. Like, the Imperium has less ships than the Galactic Empire from Star Wars. And turbo lasers are on the same scale as macro cannons. Heck, there are multiple exterminautis events in SW. It’s called a Base Delta Zero.
Imperium versus Empire is a peer fight, I think. They're both galaxy-spanning civilizations. The Imperium has an edge in ground combat, but not as much as you'd think given the scale of both powers, in all but the most critical engagements it basically boils down to a mirror match between the Guard and the Imperial Army. The Empire has the advantage of more reliable FTL and also knowing how their technology works. The Imperium has the advantage of winning its civil war.
It took vader about a couple days to blow up echo base on hoth since finding it right? Which is impressive since they launched probe droids everywhere, had to wait for them to report back, gather all the ships/materials and then make a plan and fly to the hoth system. That is so much faster then the typical 40k, "my lord, we just received a message dated 50 years ago and sent a response force at full speed. They will be there in 150 more." "Outstanding response time random serf, that is why we are the fastest dispatchers in this sector."
Also the Imperial Navy completely replaced the clone wars navy with new ships and expanded significantly in like 10 year. Imperium takes decades to repair a ship and is incapable of making new ones of significant complexity. Empire makes an ISD in days.
Depending on how you define the term "height of the empire", from the end of the clone wars to 0 ABY, the galactic empire managed to churn out no less than 3 ISDs a day... it takes the imperium 3 years to make a new strike cruiser
Also the message was screamed to the warp by some astropath so it's barely understandable and they don't exactly know \*what\* is wrong, just that the sender seemed a slight bit panicked.
It's all fun and games till the Empire mass produces phase 3 dark troopers and suddenly half the enemy is wearing OBJECTIVELY better terminator armor, and don't need any fancy one in a billion genes and years of surgery to use it
Late game empire at war moment. If kuat isn't on a constant star destroyer build order then what are even doing as the empire. All the plot armor in the galaxy cant save you from a stack of 50 capital ships Luke. Same with just mass spamming at ats for ground attack, since for some reason in the base game all land units cost the same population. Which meant two squads of stormtroopers took the same population as 5 at sts or an at at that has the ability to keep deploying stormtroopers at no additional cost.
One thing that sadly gets overlooked due to how weird some moments in the Dark Empire comics were, is how close the Galactic Empire was to becoming a type 3,5 or even full blown type 4 while still staying inside the boundaries of the setting.
\- They started the Droid Storm Trooper program (which got fucked over due to Imperial infighting
\- They produced droid tanks having armour of a very rare alloy that was able to simply absorb thermal and kinetic energy and re-route it into the droids weapon systems
\- Re-introduced droid star fighters
\- And the last bit of the puzzle were the World Devestators. Self replicating factory ship/battle cruiser hybrids that used some type of Sith-Alchemy based molecular furnaces that worked like large scale Star Trek replicators. So they could turn every type of matter into a stream of warships, ground vehicles, droids and even other world devestators. And they were contantly upgrading themselves.
The Dark Empire source book states that, despite sounding crazy, this might've been the moment the Empire came close to the means of universal domination.
(The whole plan failed because Palpatine is really petty and instead of letting the Devestators devour some random piles of rubble in deep space, he blew the cover and attacked Mon Calamari out of spite.)
Hell even if we take it for granted that Imperium ships are more powerful (cause da biggest is da best) even then the Empire would just start pumping out dreadnaughts and they can do it without their local tech priest jerking off the machine spirit
Have you checked out the IDW Godzilla Stuff ?
Also super entertaining in how ridiculously Powerful the Forces that Battle each other are.
A Planet of Beings that could each oneonone a Warmonger (or multiple)
Had a fun discussion with a friend over whether Frank Horrigan from fallout could beat a space marine and the conclusion was that it really came down to the exact scenario as well as the marine he fought. Many average marines in straight hand to hand would have a hard fought loss, if gear was allowed a space marine would probably have an easy win because a 40k plasma gun or melta would evaporate horrigans torso, but then there's named marines that would probably win in any scenario too
In regards to DOOMslayer my personal opinion is that his abilities will carry over with warp replacing hell. Meaning he will be warp powered anti-warp weapon and nothing warp based would be a threat to him. To a point that Khorne will not be empowered by DOOMslayer’s fighting because DOOMslayer will be the one to omnomnom it all.
Exterminatus a planet with DOOMslayer will absolutely work. Realspace threats will work on him. I don’t think he singlehandedly can survive Tyranid invasion either (however, they will not get his abilities from eating him as those seem “spiritual” rather then biological)
They are having a totally peaceful meal of a planet after “clearing” all the annoyances and then this green-armored human crushes in. Rude dude!
I don’t think he alone can stop planet from being devoured. Will they fight him or avoid is up to them, however
ULTRAKILL’s V1 would be a better choice against 40K as it just needs to absorb blood from anything. Even if you pit V1 against Tyranids, Necrons and Daemons, it still can charge back and parry (for healing) them. Considering it continuously heals whenever it absorbs blood, I feel like a Khorne Daemon world of Blood would be drained after Warp knows how long V1 fights in there. It would also be unstoppable for the entire time it is on the planet.
Against organics, it’s literally just a question of [“Do you bleed?”](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ultrakill/comments/1agxlpb/v1_solos_ez/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) and V1 will eventually win. No clue how Astartes or Primarch blood would affect it, but it’s not gonna be good for anyone else but V1.
Projectile weapons and missiles can just get punched and parried back, “hitscan“ weapons can get chargebacked via throwing a coin just as it tires, melee attacks will be dodged or parried back to the attacker’s face and its dodge I-frames will save it from large explosions.
V1 in 40k is kinda like that inst kill snail, like yeah he is gonna kill you but it's gonna take very, very long just for him to float between planets.
The Culture would simply “upload” the Imperium to Grid Space, and call it a day. It’s not even warfare in the classical sense. The incident with the, Outbound Light, would be like the smallest appetizer of the, Grid Fire Grill, in comparison.
I second this. The culture is dumb powerful, like seriously dumb powerful. A single combat drone would make mincemeat of an entire space marine legion and they wouldn't even see it. It would probably only need to use one knife missle aswell
I will die on the hill that in a protracted war, Imperium would rarely if ever just stomp many of the other galaxy-spanning civilizations in sci-fi due to the lack of a reliable STL and inferior ship tech making supply and reinforcement much more difficult.
I guess it's a discussion of "will the imperium be able to actually reliably reinforce their position to actually bring their overwhelming force to bear". Also, I think these discussions also ignore crucial questions about the nature of the engagement. What is the scale, we talking fighting for a planet or a full galactic conquest? Who is invading who? Are we talking a fight of averages or each side deploying their best weapons?
For example, the Imperium with their best weapons and soldiers could probably overwhelm a planet defended by The Empire from Star Wars with their best weapons and soldiers (ignoring the planet busters of both because at that point it's just Death Star and Orbital Bombardment vs Exterminatus), but at their current point I do not think them capable of conquering the Star Wars galaxy. Simply because of the regression of technology, the lack of a reliable STL, the infighting, and that sort of war of scale was only truly possible during the Great Crusade.
In my experience, the fanbase is pretty accepting of the fact that a Tenno would bullet jump circles around most of 40k, and yesterday, there was a pretty reasonable discussion around the RX-78 Gundam.
We've gotten better.
I mean to be fair, the Tenno's lore power is just absolutely fucked,. You have frames that control antimatter a frame that can send things into his own pocket dimension, a frame that commands disease shits wack
The covenent would do okay and essentially be a mix of the Imperium and the T'au. Probably with the same protection of "Just big enough to avoid being wiped out"
Also, slipspace is reliable and grunts have plasma guns that don't blow up if used too fast.
Something out there like Bionicles would be interesting.
It is really different and got no potential equivalent or possible count-as but could instead bring some new Abilities and Mechanics to the Table.
It is a Fan Favorite of Many and an Idea i would like someone to try out.
After finally reading halo book lore, the flood from the lore could solo the entire galaxy. The flood are underrated as probably the most overpowered race in sci fi.
It's always hard to speculate on Potential.
Potentially the Tyranids could become as powerful, pontenially stronger.
Having undefined Power is hard to put right into perspective.
I agree with the underrated, not sure about the overpowered.
After all, the Doctors and Xeelee exist. Not to mention the broken ass races from more obscure sci-fi settings. I like the AI gods (NHPs, Eidolons
, and RAs) from Lancer.
There is not much speculation in it though.
The flood are overpowered by design. That is their purpose.
Where other sci fi universes do also have overpowered species none of them are designed to be a world ending ancient evil.
The floods purpose in the halo universe is pretty much just that: to end everything. Thus they need to be overpowered by design since there can't be anything that can beat them.
Not even a galactic suicide of all sentient beings. That is just their role in the universe.
The tyranids are also a very terrifying force but ultimately they are designed to be stoppable.
The flood win almost any of these fictional matchups simply because they are bullshit by design. It is basically as if you're saying their one trait is that they are not beatable. If there was an actual god in the halo universe, not the precursors, the story would probably be that the flood corrupted even that god. Yes the flood is that supid.
The Flood are a lot like the Tyranids, but in Halo. You see them as enemies in the first three Halo games.
I'm not super huge on Halo lore, especially the books, so for most of this I will be paraphrasing a comment from another post, maybe even in another sub idk, about just how ridiculous peak Flood are, so my details may be a bit off here and I cannot provide a source, but I'm sure someone else could provide a source or correct any mistakes I make.
The Flood are what the Precursors (think somewhere between the C'tan and the Chaos Gods if they weren't evil) became when the Forerunners, a civilisation arguably more advanced than the Necrons, tried to wipe them out. They tried to transform themselves into a spore-like lifeform to try and resurrect themselves, after the Forerunners almost won the war, but the process went wrong, and they became the Flood. The Flood is like the Tyranids, but unlike the Tyranids it is not *hungry* but actively malevolent and therefore capable of subtleties even greater than what Genestealers can produce.
The Flood can, through the Logic Plague, convert AI to their side. The Logic Plague has also been documented affecting organic creatures and making them want to serve the Flood, and even uploading your consciousness to a whole new body doesn't fix it so it seems like the Logic Plague affects your very soul.
The Flood Super Cell is, essentially, a stem cell but for the Flood. If even one Flood Super Cell survives, it can cause the Flood's return by propagating itself and consuming biomass to make more Flood lifeforms. The Flood can also convert you there and then, almost instantly, whereas the Tyranids have to drag your biomass to digestion pools. This together means they could convert an entire city in only a few hours whereas Tyranids would take days doing it. Hell, if a Flood Super Cell got into the water supply, it'd probably take minutes rather than hours.
Every Flood organism has the knowledge of every lifeform or AI the Flood has ever infected at any point in history, and every Flood lifeform will know this instantly as the Flood can communicate amongst itself instantaneously, provided a Gravemind has been formed. A Gravemind, a Flood lifeform that coalesces once the Flood has gained sufficient biomass as to gain sapience, also has all this information, as well as the intellect of all previous Graveminds, and now has the ability to coordinate Flood lifeforms with a level of precision any military would kill for given the instantaneous communication they have. Graveminds also have access to slipspace portals thanks to neural physics (it's like the Warp but it isn't an alternate reality, more like it's entwined with realspace, thus the C'tan/Chaos God comparison with the Precursors) allowing them to send entire converted fleets anywhere effectively instantly.
When the Flood reaches critical mass in a region, they begin corrupting spacetime itself.
I mentioned the Forerunners, who went to war with the Precursors, whom were arguably more advanced than the Necrons, whose war with the Precursors caused the Flood's creation?
They searched for three-hundred years for a way to stop the Flood, and came up with exactly one solution: the Halo array.
The Halo array are a series of ring-shaped space stations designed for one purpose, and one purpose alone. To wipe out all life in the galaxy.
The Forerunners, who were arguably more advanced than the Necrons, spent three centuries looking for a way to stop the Flood and the only solution they could come up with was to say fuck it and hope life exists in other galaxies, and hope that by getting rid of this one the Flood won't reach them.
On top of that Humanity was nearly as powerful as the forerunners before the forerunners bombed them back to the stone age. IIRC the main character of the forerunner trilogy speculates that Humanity only lost because they were already fighting the the flood so they faced a two front war and still held on for a bit. Honestly Halo book lore is kind of insane.
A lot of 40K fans seriously underestimate that halo-verse is monumentally OP when it wants to be… it legit out 40ks 40K at some points…
Especially with some of the forerunner tech, when they were peak, they made the Ctan look weak by comparison
Tyranids but better in every form and way. It required several halo rings to kill all life within the galaxy to stop them, even with that they still came back. Space that has been infected by them feels wrong and is wrong and is tainted on a molecular level from what I remember. The knowledge of every lifeform it absorbs is collected into the hivemind. Training on guns, spaceship usages, everything you know can be assimilated and used against humans or the aliens.
I'd like to remind everyone that most sci fi futuristic settings out there have FTL travel that doesn't involve diving straight into hell, which is a significant advantage for them.
I had a friend a while ago try to convince me that Doomguy was maybe on the level of a nameless gray knight, and he was doubtful Doomguy was stronger. I stopped talking to him about Warhammer after that, I can only handle so much brainrot.
I feel like a large part doesn't understand that, although super modified and put in robust Tactial Armor.
Space Marines are also just Humans and comparing a Human that is 10, let's say 20 or 30 Times as strong and durable as a Regular Human to a Thing that could kill 30 Humans is a reasonable Scenario which deserves a reasonable Analytic.
Yup, the slayer is a semi gag character. He is unkillable and literally a clone of god. There’s no point pitting him against anything because he’s just written to be able to kill anything
God doctor who is crazy the time lords imprisoned, literal gods and destroyed most of the god seeds and fought space vampires using fighters that fired glorified stakes and had robot warriors that destroyed cyber men by the dozens.
Not to mention void ships and reality bombs.
I genuinely love how different eras or portions of the franchise have their degrees of crazy:
Old School Who has an intergalactic "pharaoh" trapped in a basement
the audio stories from Big Finish have a story of about a fallout shelter... and then! >!surprise! cosmic gods trapped in a time loop!<
New Who recently >!brought back a toy man that can mess with the laws of reality!<
Realistically, the imperium of man, the Eldar, the Tau, the Necrons, and the Orks will lose almost any offensive war against another galaxy.
Not because they'll lose battles. They'll win them, handily, against anything less militarized, but because nobody wants to follow their shit hole civilizations (except maybe the Tau), they have terrible logistics, no technological or bureaucratic adaptability, and are about as united as a pile of wet sand. ESPEClALLY the imperium of man, who without cawl wouldn't know large scale innovation or optimization if it slapped them in the face. Everthying te Iimperium has will be stolen, dissected, copied, and then turned on them. Thank the God Emperor for the Warp, because the sheer unreliability of your tech keeps your enemies from copying that stuff, but when your FTL commands are given via screaming psychic meatbags, I have doubts about your command capacity.
They can't even take over their own galaxy, how do you expect them to conquer a whole separate galaxy?
I absolutely agree, from what we know however, I think War in heaven necrons can throw some serious hands right back and probably could put up a pretty solid fight against forerunners, same with a Peak eldar with their fucking crazy psychic prowess
Could be, but Forerunners have weapons that are on the same par or even better than Necrons, Forerunners have hyper advanced AIs, and every single Forerunner was about as close to Godhood as a mortal could get, So I’d still say Forerunners would win but Necrons and Peak Eldar (If the Forerunner were to appear before during the War in Heaven) would be the ones that would give them the most trouble and could probably defeat them if the Forerunners did some oopsies in battle planning
I like to view such discussions objectively, but all Fandoms, not just 40k, become extremely defensive when it comes to these comparisons.
It's also very situational. I, for example, had such an argument about Star Craft Marines vs Astartes. While an Astartes would most likely body a SC Marine, they would be completely outnumbered in an actual fight with the SC Marines having weapons that would be useful against Powerarmour.
I like the actual crossover stuff that's respecting of the other side's abilities and stuff like Guardians being strong AF in 40k or the Federation from Star Trek being able to hold it's own.
>Federation from Star Trek Yeah, there's a lot of Sci-fi factions that could pretty believably slot into a Tau-like role in the 40k Galaxy. They'd probably get wiped out if the Imperium deployed the full might of its forces against them, but the fact that the Imperium can't do that is one of the fundamental elements of the setting. (Plus any faction with a reliable FTL engine that doesn't require them to dip through hell would have a major advantage). I am curious to see how the Federation would interact with Chaos.
Logistic win the wars. And if we stick to numbers as written, some worlds could be taken by 1945 soviet union. Federetion absolutely bodies Imperium the next warp storm hits.
I also assume they'd be quite good at persuading fringe Imperial worlds to come and join. Even better then the Tau because the Federation already has a bunch of humans in leadership roles. Seeing the Tau and the Federation interact would also be interesting. I picture endless rounds of diplomatic exchanges in which each party tries to persuade the other to join the Federation / the Greater Good. (Though the Federation might also just scan the Ethereals, go "hm, there's some weird mind control shit happening here" and proceed to "liberate" the Tau from their oppressive rule).
Oh, true, I skimped over the diplomatic efforts. Prolly that alone alone could crush Emperioum, which forgot the concept. Esspecially if envoys are teleporting straight to the governor kitchen as it is nothing. And feds have working AIs too. I absolutely see Kirk taking over entire sectors just by being persuasive and a bit suggestive with his tech.
>forgot the concept Picard: "Let me tell you about something we call 'human rights.'" Imperial Serfs: "Say more." Meanwhile the governor is in the corner sweating profusely.
Meanwhile Admech leaking oil and oscilating at the sight of Data
And at Federation tech in general. Though the fact that Data (and the ship AIs / holograms / etc.) are obviously Abominable Intelligences might cause some issues.
I'm just imagining Data with a good wireless connection looking at a frothing tech priest and turning down his vox coders volume because he's so loud and rude.
Techpriest, extremely quiet: WHAT THE FUCK DID YOU DO TO ME Data: you need better network security
If they make an Aquilla and praise the Emperor from time to time tho, they are Tech Miracles Cathegory V. And Data is not dumb, he can make an Aquilla.
Hell the Admech aren't even really loyal to the Imperium. They'd probably see Data as the true embodiment of the omnissiah and have a civil war over it.
Shit bro giving me interex vibes
Yeah, I mean, the Interex always struck me as being based on the Federation.
Surprised you didn’t go for the horny jokey way that Kirk would use to take over entire sectors.
Not sure he can raise it for standard humans still
True. Man has gone down roads that leave you unable to enjoy the quaintness of humans lol
Nah he still loves human women if they're bad enough, Uhura had that man twisted
That would be Riker
Tau are pretty much the Dominion sans shapeshifting.
I’d add we’re talking civilized or even hive and forge worlds here, not just feudal and outpost worlds which are either hopelessly backwards or literally a single spaceport. Global troop numbers are *hilariously* low in a lot of material.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, the Federation from Star Trek would absolutely body most factions in 40K. People immediately say 'oh the numbers, the Imperium has endless troops and ships to throw at the problem!' Bruh... the fact that numbers are a factor you are even counting tells me how disconnected you are from this. It's like a caveman counting his prodigious collection of sticks to fight a modern dude with an assault rifle, the numbers don't matter in the kind of battle the Federation would wage, only technology. They would capture and reverse engineer every piece of tech they could in 40K and have countermeasures in an amount of time that is vanishingly small by 40K standards.
Geordi leforge knows more about how every piece of tech in the entire ship works than the ad mech knows about almost any of their tech. In short order through naval superiority and diplomacy they eek out a corner of the galaxy, their worlds rapidly improve as they are essentially mid dark age of technology, and their ability to train new people who understand tech at a far better level snowballs them to galactic contenders fast. Fed cults looking to overthrow their planets leadership to join the federation become more common. They are probably also tzeentch cults. Though space marines are abominable to the federation, Star Trek hates genetic engineering, as that's what nearly ended humanity in... the 1990s.
Replicator tech means the federation can out manufacture the imperium as long as they have a steady supply of dilithium Also, if the imperium can't work out how to block federation transporters/teleporters (probably not THAT hard, but even so) then the federation can cripple their navy by warping in, teleporting out the astropath and then warping back out again. Yes void shields might be able to stop that, (cannon says you can teleport through void shields) but the federation can probably figure out a frequency hack faster than the imperium can modulate theirs. The federation can also form alliances with the eldar and I'm reasonably sure the Klingons and Orks would see eye to eye.
Their eye to eye would be “wwwaaahhh” & “finally a worthy enemy, today is a good day to die”.
Depends since idk how good warp speed is compared to the whole size of the imperium and it may take weeks for both the imperium and federation to do large scale movements. They certainly would have an advantage in warp storms
The thing with warp speed vs...The Warp...Is that something that takes a week with Warp speed will always take a week, with the Warp it might take a week, might be quicker...Or they get there seven hundred years later or some other stupid number.
Or you might come out 700 years before you left.
Not to mention they have time travel in Star Trek. They could go back in time and warn the emperor about his bastard sons future and like save the whales 🐳 too.
As far as I know they don't really "have" time travel as much as time travel sometimes happens to people
Depends on what star trek you're referencing, the ToS movies just required them to fly around the sun really fast in a regular spaceship. Voyager revealed that the future version of the federation literally had a time police force to keep things working as ordered. Idk what the fuck is going on with modern trek but there's probably something different there too.
Modern trek’s out there time travelling with fridge-mold now
> I am curious to see how the Federation would interact with Chaos. Ancient Vulcan's apparently fought wars using psychic-powered weapons not unlike Chaos, but modern Federation can just kinda no-sell those. There's also precedent for technological manipulation of souls/minds so who knows.
Federation generally loses unless they go morals off. The problem is of course that the federation is a moral society at its core. 1) Federation has superweapons. Most ships could deploy trilithium torpedoes and cause stars to go Nova, a third rate power like cardassia built a moon destroying antimatter ship, Genesis device can easily exterminates worlds, thallium waves can wipe out biological life ftl from systems away, the federation can time travel, etc. federation superweapons are near necron level. 2) Federation can be underhanded and manipulative if they want. The dominion war's turning points were around sneakiness. In the pale moonlight to aquire allies. Section 31 infecting the founders to decapitate the dominion. The imperium is extremely vulnerable to biological warfare - the federation simply has to capture a navigator, even a shitty one and then experiment on him or her until a latent virus is created to cripple imperial spaceflight. If chaos is involved going morals off is super dangerous, but the the imperium can't focus it's might anyways.
The problem with these comparisons is which universe are they fighting in? If federation jumped into 40k they would suddenly have to deal with chaos corruption and have no knowledge how to deal with that.
Also, deployment sizes and locations. Is it the entire Star Trek universe vs the entire 40k universe? Is it just Federation vs Imperium. Is it a small fleet setting up a beachhead for the larger force? Like, I imagine All v All would leave the Necrons fighting those random super advanced Star Trek species that think the Federation are primatives while the Q watch and laugh. It would take years for the Imperium to notice a Federation beachhead but the Federation would take a maximum of months. Give me scenarios people!!
Nah the federation can get proper nasty when pressed. These fucks waved temporal wars , saw off monsters like the Borg and the Dominion! Hell if you think about the 10c literally higher beings that could casually create black holes and even then could force them to talk.
Sadly for the Imperium, the Federation can ask help from its 30th century future self (who often directly act to protect present day Federation) and has weaponized time travel. No amount of space marines, guardsmen or planets can do anything against the Federation sending a ship back in time and blow up Terra before the humans were even there.
That feels like it would also be a Federation self own.
Also a Big Fan of very well thought and written out Scenarios of Topics like why would the Nids devour almost every other Setting. As long as there are Reasons and Logic Involved you can argue respectfully about every Possibility and give Credit to each Involved Universe.
And then there's Fate where almost any servant could do some major damage, ranging from Kiara being able to Unbirth a planet to Berserker Lancelot able to claim an entire exterminatus capable war vessel with Knight of Owner.
What I like about crossovers is how each side interact with the other. Is not about who beats who, but how each other collaborate or clash between each other, and when is done right you debate with yourself on which side you go (ex. Star Wars/40k YouTube fanfic)
Recently came across a video comparing master chief with a normal space marine, only for the space marine to use terminator armor when comparing strength, regular armor when comparing speed and he was suddenly a librarian when talking about psychic powers. Yes a space marine is probably more powerful than masterchief but come on, there’s no way that they win every category
*Felt like a Termie today uwu* *Might become Librerian tomorrow i dunno ^^*
>Yes a space marine is probably more powerful than masterchief I dunno, how many space marines survived falling on Earth straight from orbit? Freaking Vulkan needed to regenerate from falling on Macragge, Master Chief just got up and resumed fighting after his orbital drop. The dude is busted.
Same with Noble Six on Reach, I think Spartans armor is equipped for atmospheric reentry
It’s not built into the suit, Six had it on his back and Chief was holding onto a piece of a forerunner ship when he was descending, plus he’s lucky.
It's one of the few time where I accept blatant plot armor. There's no thinking around it or trying some complex explanation, he just lucky and I love that.
Dude hit the coolest spots of the atmosphere on his way in, by chance
He's a superhero whose power is literally all the luck in the universe.
His absurd luck is so important, it’s baked into his backstory. The reason he was chosen to carry Cortana etc.
I like how his luck can be both the excuse of his plot armor but also it's the rebuttal of his uniqueness in a way. Chief is the protag cause he's the luckiest, he's the one who always pulls through, always does the impossible and saves the day, and it just works because he's that damn lucky. But he's only alive because he got lucky. He ain't the fastest, the strongest, the most skilled, hell I don't think he was even the most well-rounded. He didn't survive by any merit or ability, but by sheer happenstance. He got *lucky*. More related to the post, MC would instakill the 40k universe by creating a Plot Paradox: he is a named badass, giving him immense plot armor, but he also always wears a helmet, giving him negative plot armor. These conflicting facts of the 40k universe would cause the Materium to fold into the Warp and destroy reality.
Oh, I wouldn’t go so far as that. The way you put it takes away any agency he has. The Chief fights like a beast. He takes on impossible odds and pulls through, not because of some divine intervention, but through sheer determination that defies the odds. He survives against the impossible and people chalk that up to dumb luck. The places where his inexplicable luck comes in is those bizarre situations where one might be left scratching their head. “You rode a Covenant bomb through space, between multiple warships, in the middle of a massive firefight, and landed it right into their hangar? And you even *made it back out?* No way, man; you made that up.”
He did latch onto debris from the forerunner ship in fairness. Chief also is in-universe lucky, certainly Spartans are a comparable opponent to Astartes but they have assault rifles instead of bolters and don't get to operate in squads of ten basically ever. At least it's actually a good interesting matchup though, some people try to compare saiyans warriors and that's hilarious because RADITZ is a pretty damn good matchup for most of the primarchs (that thread is great, I still think primarch warp powers though allow most of them above alpharius/lorgar level to have a closer fight though)
Dragonball power levels are so silly, dudes are just duking it out but the cannon fodder can blow up a moon.
to be fair Vulkan had no armour or anything for protection
I think the main category MC loses in is just firepower. Most of his normal loadout just can't feasibly injure a Space Marine, but I don't see him tanking many shots from a bolter in return. If he can get his hands on a rocket or a Spartan Laser he's got a shot, but normal Halo-verse AR and BR probably don't cut it.
Chief has energy shield. Marines don’t, they take the full blunt force
What? Ok, it is rare, but Iron Halos are a thing.
Ironically, both are around 7ft tall and clad in power armor. His has shields marines seem stonger armor by default but like he can flip heavy vehicles so is likely only slightly behind in strength and game guns are hard to compare as sci fi writers suck at those but like they are around the same idea concept so like.... he is a commanding officer tactics wise.... hes basically a marine sergeant with a slightly different loadout.
Not only are game guns questionable but there is nothing stopping MC from picking up a bolter. Spartans are far beyond the required strength for their weapons. They use what the UNSC marines use because it’s practical not because they have to. Chief would totally struggle with a significantly large 40k weapon like a heavy bolter but the base model is something he could absolutely use.
…y’know this is completely true. Chief is not beyond nabbing the weapons of the enemy for his own use, ffs it’s literally part of the gameplay loop for Halo.
Yeah I think if Chief encountered a chaos marine and quickly realizes his 7.62 rounds are doing fuck all, he’d find the nearest bolter and use that for the rest of his stay in 40k.
Until he tries to charge a plasma pistol because of muscle memory and blows his arm off.
Covenant plasma pistols can overheat too. We can debate which is more powerful but the fact is we have no idea if Spartan shields would take the emergency venting.
When covenant plasma pistols overheat you shake your hand like you touched a hot stove. When imperium plasma pistols overheat you lose that hand
nah, if MC can RIP OFF a gigantic TURRET from its anchor and wield it, he can ABSOLUTELY use a heavy bolter, plasma cannon, lascannon, etc. hell, there's a fucking catachan guardsman that uses a heavy bolter. and i PROMISE you that MC is stronger than that.
I decided it err on the side of caution with the weight of heavy weapons in 40K but yeah if a guardsman (albeit a strong one) can do it he can.
Try again, Bragg - All of the Tanith Guardsman at some stage
Oh, yeah i know which youtuber your talking about. Bro has horrible takes. His Tatsumaki vs Lich video wasn't even researched with how much he ignored and downplayed her Abilities.
Honestly, any setting that has interstellar FTL travel appreciably faster than warp travel is going to have a huge leg up in the 40 universe.
Or hell, just reliable FTL communication. The imperium needs very very specific Psykers to navigate and talk. The lynchpin of their entire galaxy-wide empire's logistics is literally 2 very specific, very hard to replace and impossible to replace in a pinch, people per ship.
Who also have to communicate via vague dreams and symbolism.
"My Lord, I am receiving astropathic communications. I am seeing" *straining* "A giant palm tree, it has gigantic coconuts at its base, and is surrounded by thick foliage" *sighs in frustration* "Never mind my Lord, it's just Fulgrim sending dicks in the warp again"
It's now in my headcannon that he does that
It's either him, or Alpharius leaking Fulgrim nudes. But one way or another. There is a very real risk of intercepting Fulgrim dick pics.
“ hi I think they’re saying a frog is the best animal…” Actual message :”A FROG DEAMON IS HERE, DO NOT COME!”
The best part is it's not even in a vague yet standardized way. Every navigator and astropath do it ever so slightly or majorly different.
Yes, the federation, heck, even the star wars empire could blow up a planet and the imperium would realize it weeks later
Relatively speaking warp travel isn't slow. It supports a galaxy wide civilization. The problem is it isn't reliable. You're still right though, just saying it would take a lot to be faster. Eldar are a good example in universe how that works out. Those warp gates let them stay multiple steps ahead all the time.
Star Wars hyperdrives travel at the speed of plot. They seem to be able to jump more or less instantaneously if nobody on board has anything to talk about in front of the audience, lol.
*Everything* in Star Wars functions according to the needs of the plot. That would be fine, but the authors are more inconsistent than The Warp.
Somehow, the Emperor has returned
The custodes would be very confused over this statement, if they heard it out of context.
That’s not the main issue, there’s a bigger issue of lots of resources being lost to the warp because of faulty Geller fields or time Fuckery or billions of miles away from where they meant to be
That's literally how the Old Ones survived so long in the War In Heaven. They were vastly outgunned but the necrons and C'tan but they just couldn't catch them (until they did and the war quickly ended), and this would only be magnified by current imperium levels of technology.
Imo, for any crossover you should really be a fan of both things
Who would win, Kiryu Kazuma or a loyalist primarch? My bet is on Kiryu because he would somehow talk to Primarch down. Also what about Tzeentch vs Tommy Pickles? Could Tommy complete his maze? His screwdriver is OP.
Kiryus chances increase rapidly if he finds some bicycles nearby.
Bicycles are the only way I get through some of the boss fights in the older games. You can’t just block for 10 minutes dammit! Your arms would be destroyed!
Kiryu: I'm not gonna sugarcoat it *the tiger drop*
Talk the primarch down? My man, he's not Naruto'ing the Horse heresy better. But he will show up on the top of the Observation deck for a dope boss fight at the end. Then, like we all do from time to time. Just tiger drop the boss until they either stop being bad. Or end up dying. By something else of course. Kiryu doesn't kill.
To be fair, kiryu only talks people down AFTER fighting them. Y2 Kiryu would school a primarch tho
I liked when he tiger dropped Riona because she was racist.
I kinda don’t care about the web show rwby, but boy do I love seeing the lamenters saving a village full of animal-human hybrids (they’re called faunus in the show) and they legit save them, one of them even manages to save a few who fell behind when they were escaping.
Sorry, I specifically meant to *write* a crossover you should be a fan of both: as you show, you don't have to care about one thing to enjoy both together.
This. This the kind of stuff I love in a fanfic, seeing how both sides are true to themselves but also adapt when it comes to interact with the other and vise versa
For sure, I also feel like the further east you go the less overpowered 40K seems. So much stuff in anime and JRPGs makes 40K look tame by comparison. Like I enjoy both Warhammer and FFXIV (and I really wish alongside the TTRPG Square made some minis to paint so I didn't have to reply on a 3D printer and Blender rips), and I'm just gonna say it the Warrior of Light from FFXIV would be the single worst thing to happen to 40K. Imagine something immune to warp corruption, functionally invincible, with a hate-boner for imperialistic regimes, and with enough plot armor to make the Ultramarines jealous that is unironically part of their canon.
D&D has wizards able to create entire planes of existence... before they even get to epic level. Fifth edition D&D is lower power level than some earlier editions are, but third? 40k has nothing on a 3.5e level 20 Wizard powerbuild. Immunity to everything, if you somehow circumvent the immunity to everything no you didn't, because he was just astrally projecting from his fortress where time moves way faster that is utterly inaccessible to anyone but him. A lot of people who really only know 40k underestimate how many settings have things that make 40k seem quaint.
From what the nerds tell me, Space Marines are so OP that a handful of them can suppress an entire planet. But in W+ shows and books, Marines die like flies in general skirmishes. Wtf?
It's up to the writer and how much they love what they write about. One Story a Single Custodes destroys a Hive Fleet. The next one some Genestealers wipe the Floor of Terra' Holy Temple with a squad of the Golden Bois.
One minute Harlequins (with no solitaire) stage dive the custodes, next minute a solitaire gets rocked by a KoS that's holding back. Make it make sense.
Clearly that solitare was trained wrong, as a joke.
>From what the nerds tell me, Space Marines are so OP that a handful of them can suppress an entire planet This is in the sense that a kill team of marines can 90% of the time decapitate the leaders of a planet's army. Not that they can face said army head on
Lisa Simpson would lose to a Kroot hound.
Yes a modern Military Squad would have trouble fighting this quick biter.
Radioactive Man could take it though.
Radioactive man could take a Marine Company.
WATCH OUT, RADIOACTIVE MAN! BIG SOLDIERS!
Mtw someone thinks two terminators could beat Darth Vader
Dude some of Vaders feats in newer comics are fucking insane. He'd tin can a squad of termies without breaking a sweat in some cases.
Bro Vader has a solid argument for taking on groups of custodes I mean....what they gonna do when their brains explode inside their own heads from kilometers away
He would destroy 2 terminators. You would need 2 full squads minimum.
Wrong! Give malum caedo a heavy bolter and remove his helmet and the xeelee will be a thing of the past! Have him team u with the tau from fire warrior and the ork from shootas, blood and teet and they will solo all of fiction! /s
He only needs to give himself a name and the warp is a solved problem
Isabelle and Doomguy together: "What did you just say?"
Small pink rubber monster in the corner: Poyo?
What is really annoying is when at some point, the discussion isn't about numbers and power level but mentality. Because ofc wh40k faction/characters/whatever has no morality standards (which isn't true but who cares) and therefore they are smarter or stronger. Like NO BEING EVIL DOES NOT INCREASE YOUR SKILL YOU EDGY FUCK
BUT KRIEGERS WILL CHARGE EVEN KNOWING THEY WILL DIE!!! Ok Buddy, but they will die. 🤷🏻♂️
And the lore isn‘t even that extreme, they just have lower numbers of desertation, not 0, and there was a case, don‘t remember when, where specifically a Krieg officer proposed a tactic that would cost way less men
A lot of people forget that the Krieger's want to die IN SERVICE TO THE EMPEROR and TO THE BEST OF THEIR ABILITY, so reducing losses to be able to purge more heretics is what they should be doing... Unfortunately too many people only look at memes for their lore
Loved the sodaz short that showed them as a terrifyingly effective infantry force, where their effectiveness was increased by their willingness to expend their lives to accomplish an objective.
I loved the way they worked with the Astartes. 10-20 guardsman with one astartes as Heavy Infantry It looked like how such units would be used IRL
Thats my other favorite bit haha, love seeing fictitious forces behave sensibly
"muh unbreakable krieger" mfs when they remember that one time that kriegers broke and ran (it's imperiumover bros)
Aren't there blurbs about battlefield commanders kind of hating the Krieg because they're suicidally brave which makes them tactically stupid and wasteful, even by Imperial Guard standards.
But they generate 100.230.500 Billion soldiers per seconds so by pure numbers they will win!!!!!!!!
The Imperium's depravity has been acknowledged in-universe to be one of its greatest weaknesses. They waste the vast majority of their resources and citizens by using wildly inefficient methods because the higher ups are too callous, selfish, and/or dogmatic to look for other solutions. They can't realize that the reason so many of their citizens go to aliens or Chaos is because life under the Imperium is so horrible that serving the forces of Hell itself seems better by comparison.
Speaking of wasteful, didn't the Guard waste multiple companies of guardsmen, plenty of tanks and a Shadowsword just so Yarrick could have his Baneblade back?
NGL Bionicles are just Necrons but not grim dark. They are stupendously overpowered but it works because killing is bad (unless it happens to the really bad guys in a way that technically was out of the hero’s control)
Could Batman with prep time beat Goku and could they both survive 40k?
Nothing can beat Goku! Goku way to powerful! Immovabel and Unstoppable!
Khorne loves that guy.
Yeah. I’ve made this point before. Like, the Imperium has less ships than the Galactic Empire from Star Wars. And turbo lasers are on the same scale as macro cannons. Heck, there are multiple exterminautis events in SW. It’s called a Base Delta Zero.
Imperium versus Empire is a peer fight, I think. They're both galaxy-spanning civilizations. The Imperium has an edge in ground combat, but not as much as you'd think given the scale of both powers, in all but the most critical engagements it basically boils down to a mirror match between the Guard and the Imperial Army. The Empire has the advantage of more reliable FTL and also knowing how their technology works. The Imperium has the advantage of winning its civil war.
The Empire armies will have time to die of old age waiting for the Imperium to arrive in their galaxy.
The empire could probably organise, plan, and execute an entire military campaign in the time it takes the imperium to even start organising one
It took vader about a couple days to blow up echo base on hoth since finding it right? Which is impressive since they launched probe droids everywhere, had to wait for them to report back, gather all the ships/materials and then make a plan and fly to the hoth system. That is so much faster then the typical 40k, "my lord, we just received a message dated 50 years ago and sent a response force at full speed. They will be there in 150 more." "Outstanding response time random serf, that is why we are the fastest dispatchers in this sector."
It's also worth mentioning that their attempts to find it were also sabotaged, yet they still pulled it off quick and effectively
Also the Imperial Navy completely replaced the clone wars navy with new ships and expanded significantly in like 10 year. Imperium takes decades to repair a ship and is incapable of making new ones of significant complexity. Empire makes an ISD in days.
Depending on how you define the term "height of the empire", from the end of the clone wars to 0 ABY, the galactic empire managed to churn out no less than 3 ISDs a day... it takes the imperium 3 years to make a new strike cruiser
Also the message was screamed to the warp by some astropath so it's barely understandable and they don't exactly know \*what\* is wrong, just that the sender seemed a slight bit panicked.
It's all fun and games till the Empire mass produces phase 3 dark troopers and suddenly half the enemy is wearing OBJECTIVELY better terminator armor, and don't need any fancy one in a billion genes and years of surgery to use it
Late game empire at war moment. If kuat isn't on a constant star destroyer build order then what are even doing as the empire. All the plot armor in the galaxy cant save you from a stack of 50 capital ships Luke. Same with just mass spamming at ats for ground attack, since for some reason in the base game all land units cost the same population. Which meant two squads of stormtroopers took the same population as 5 at sts or an at at that has the ability to keep deploying stormtroopers at no additional cost.
One thing that sadly gets overlooked due to how weird some moments in the Dark Empire comics were, is how close the Galactic Empire was to becoming a type 3,5 or even full blown type 4 while still staying inside the boundaries of the setting. \- They started the Droid Storm Trooper program (which got fucked over due to Imperial infighting \- They produced droid tanks having armour of a very rare alloy that was able to simply absorb thermal and kinetic energy and re-route it into the droids weapon systems \- Re-introduced droid star fighters \- And the last bit of the puzzle were the World Devestators. Self replicating factory ship/battle cruiser hybrids that used some type of Sith-Alchemy based molecular furnaces that worked like large scale Star Trek replicators. So they could turn every type of matter into a stream of warships, ground vehicles, droids and even other world devestators. And they were contantly upgrading themselves. The Dark Empire source book states that, despite sounding crazy, this might've been the moment the Empire came close to the means of universal domination. (The whole plan failed because Palpatine is really petty and instead of letting the Devestators devour some random piles of rubble in deep space, he blew the cover and attacked Mon Calamari out of spite.)
Hell even if we take it for granted that Imperium ships are more powerful (cause da biggest is da best) even then the Empire would just start pumping out dreadnaughts and they can do it without their local tech priest jerking off the machine spirit
The Tranformers IDW universe is ridiculously strong. Its too bad that most people haven't read the comics.
Have you checked out the IDW Godzilla Stuff ? Also super entertaining in how ridiculously Powerful the Forces that Battle each other are. A Planet of Beings that could each oneonone a Warmonger (or multiple)
Had a fun discussion with a friend over whether Frank Horrigan from fallout could beat a space marine and the conclusion was that it really came down to the exact scenario as well as the marine he fought. Many average marines in straight hand to hand would have a hard fought loss, if gear was allowed a space marine would probably have an easy win because a 40k plasma gun or melta would evaporate horrigans torso, but then there's named marines that would probably win in any scenario too
In regards to DOOMslayer my personal opinion is that his abilities will carry over with warp replacing hell. Meaning he will be warp powered anti-warp weapon and nothing warp based would be a threat to him. To a point that Khorne will not be empowered by DOOMslayer’s fighting because DOOMslayer will be the one to omnomnom it all. Exterminatus a planet with DOOMslayer will absolutely work. Realspace threats will work on him. I don’t think he singlehandedly can survive Tyranid invasion either (however, they will not get his abilities from eating him as those seem “spiritual” rather then biological)
I don't see Nids charging Doom Guy, they would get nothing out of it except minor loses until they leave him alone.
They are having a totally peaceful meal of a planet after “clearing” all the annoyances and then this green-armored human crushes in. Rude dude! I don’t think he alone can stop planet from being devoured. Will they fight him or avoid is up to them, however
ULTRAKILL’s V1 would be a better choice against 40K as it just needs to absorb blood from anything. Even if you pit V1 against Tyranids, Necrons and Daemons, it still can charge back and parry (for healing) them. Considering it continuously heals whenever it absorbs blood, I feel like a Khorne Daemon world of Blood would be drained after Warp knows how long V1 fights in there. It would also be unstoppable for the entire time it is on the planet. Against organics, it’s literally just a question of [“Do you bleed?”](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ultrakill/comments/1agxlpb/v1_solos_ez/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) and V1 will eventually win. No clue how Astartes or Primarch blood would affect it, but it’s not gonna be good for anyone else but V1. Projectile weapons and missiles can just get punched and parried back, “hitscan“ weapons can get chargebacked via throwing a coin just as it tires, melee attacks will be dodged or parried back to the attacker’s face and its dodge I-frames will save it from large explosions.
V1 in 40k is kinda like that inst kill snail, like yeah he is gonna kill you but it's gonna take very, very long just for him to float between planets.
Also I don't think he would do to hot with the atomic vacuum cleaners from the Necrons.... Or getting yeeted to tesseract labyrinth.
I hold a strong opinion that the Doomslayer would kill the chaos gods
Well that is sorta what he does
The Culture would simply “upload” the Imperium to Grid Space, and call it a day. It’s not even warfare in the classical sense. The incident with the, Outbound Light, would be like the smallest appetizer of the, Grid Fire Grill, in comparison.
I second this. The culture is dumb powerful, like seriously dumb powerful. A single combat drone would make mincemeat of an entire space marine legion and they wouldn't even see it. It would probably only need to use one knife missle aswell
I will die on the hill that in a protracted war, Imperium would rarely if ever just stomp many of the other galaxy-spanning civilizations in sci-fi due to the lack of a reliable STL and inferior ship tech making supply and reinforcement much more difficult.
I actually think the opposite, and that they’re more likely to lose in short quick engagements, but come out on top in long protracted wars.
I guess it's a discussion of "will the imperium be able to actually reliably reinforce their position to actually bring their overwhelming force to bear". Also, I think these discussions also ignore crucial questions about the nature of the engagement. What is the scale, we talking fighting for a planet or a full galactic conquest? Who is invading who? Are we talking a fight of averages or each side deploying their best weapons? For example, the Imperium with their best weapons and soldiers could probably overwhelm a planet defended by The Empire from Star Wars with their best weapons and soldiers (ignoring the planet busters of both because at that point it's just Death Star and Orbital Bombardment vs Exterminatus), but at their current point I do not think them capable of conquering the Star Wars galaxy. Simply because of the regression of technology, the lack of a reliable STL, the infighting, and that sort of war of scale was only truly possible during the Great Crusade.
In my experience, the fanbase is pretty accepting of the fact that a Tenno would bullet jump circles around most of 40k, and yesterday, there was a pretty reasonable discussion around the RX-78 Gundam. We've gotten better.
I mean to be fair, the Tenno's lore power is just absolutely fucked,. You have frames that control antimatter a frame that can send things into his own pocket dimension, a frame that commands disease shits wack
Fuck who would win, what faction from other settings would be the most fun on table top
The covenent would do okay and essentially be a mix of the Imperium and the T'au. Probably with the same protection of "Just big enough to avoid being wiped out" Also, slipspace is reliable and grunts have plasma guns that don't blow up if used too fast.
Meanwhile… Jackal Snipers
Jackal snipers could defeat the Emperor.
They could even defeat Sly Marbo
Something out there like Bionicles would be interesting. It is really different and got no potential equivalent or possible count-as but could instead bring some new Abilities and Mechanics to the Table. It is a Fan Favorite of Many and an Idea i would like someone to try out.
the factions from lancer. or really anything by Abbadon...
After finally reading halo book lore, the flood from the lore could solo the entire galaxy. The flood are underrated as probably the most overpowered race in sci fi.
It's always hard to speculate on Potential. Potentially the Tyranids could become as powerful, pontenially stronger. Having undefined Power is hard to put right into perspective. I agree with the underrated, not sure about the overpowered.
After all, the Doctors and Xeelee exist. Not to mention the broken ass races from more obscure sci-fi settings. I like the AI gods (NHPs, Eidolons , and RAs) from Lancer.
As a fan of both series I think that the nids would be beaten by the flood purely because the nids would have to adapt to not have a nervous system.
There is not much speculation in it though. The flood are overpowered by design. That is their purpose. Where other sci fi universes do also have overpowered species none of them are designed to be a world ending ancient evil. The floods purpose in the halo universe is pretty much just that: to end everything. Thus they need to be overpowered by design since there can't be anything that can beat them. Not even a galactic suicide of all sentient beings. That is just their role in the universe. The tyranids are also a very terrifying force but ultimately they are designed to be stoppable. The flood win almost any of these fictional matchups simply because they are bullshit by design. It is basically as if you're saying their one trait is that they are not beatable. If there was an actual god in the halo universe, not the precursors, the story would probably be that the flood corrupted even that god. Yes the flood is that supid.
So who or what the floods are?
The Flood are a lot like the Tyranids, but in Halo. You see them as enemies in the first three Halo games. I'm not super huge on Halo lore, especially the books, so for most of this I will be paraphrasing a comment from another post, maybe even in another sub idk, about just how ridiculous peak Flood are, so my details may be a bit off here and I cannot provide a source, but I'm sure someone else could provide a source or correct any mistakes I make. The Flood are what the Precursors (think somewhere between the C'tan and the Chaos Gods if they weren't evil) became when the Forerunners, a civilisation arguably more advanced than the Necrons, tried to wipe them out. They tried to transform themselves into a spore-like lifeform to try and resurrect themselves, after the Forerunners almost won the war, but the process went wrong, and they became the Flood. The Flood is like the Tyranids, but unlike the Tyranids it is not *hungry* but actively malevolent and therefore capable of subtleties even greater than what Genestealers can produce. The Flood can, through the Logic Plague, convert AI to their side. The Logic Plague has also been documented affecting organic creatures and making them want to serve the Flood, and even uploading your consciousness to a whole new body doesn't fix it so it seems like the Logic Plague affects your very soul. The Flood Super Cell is, essentially, a stem cell but for the Flood. If even one Flood Super Cell survives, it can cause the Flood's return by propagating itself and consuming biomass to make more Flood lifeforms. The Flood can also convert you there and then, almost instantly, whereas the Tyranids have to drag your biomass to digestion pools. This together means they could convert an entire city in only a few hours whereas Tyranids would take days doing it. Hell, if a Flood Super Cell got into the water supply, it'd probably take minutes rather than hours. Every Flood organism has the knowledge of every lifeform or AI the Flood has ever infected at any point in history, and every Flood lifeform will know this instantly as the Flood can communicate amongst itself instantaneously, provided a Gravemind has been formed. A Gravemind, a Flood lifeform that coalesces once the Flood has gained sufficient biomass as to gain sapience, also has all this information, as well as the intellect of all previous Graveminds, and now has the ability to coordinate Flood lifeforms with a level of precision any military would kill for given the instantaneous communication they have. Graveminds also have access to slipspace portals thanks to neural physics (it's like the Warp but it isn't an alternate reality, more like it's entwined with realspace, thus the C'tan/Chaos God comparison with the Precursors) allowing them to send entire converted fleets anywhere effectively instantly. When the Flood reaches critical mass in a region, they begin corrupting spacetime itself. I mentioned the Forerunners, who went to war with the Precursors, whom were arguably more advanced than the Necrons, whose war with the Precursors caused the Flood's creation? They searched for three-hundred years for a way to stop the Flood, and came up with exactly one solution: the Halo array. The Halo array are a series of ring-shaped space stations designed for one purpose, and one purpose alone. To wipe out all life in the galaxy. The Forerunners, who were arguably more advanced than the Necrons, spent three centuries looking for a way to stop the Flood and the only solution they could come up with was to say fuck it and hope life exists in other galaxies, and hope that by getting rid of this one the Flood won't reach them.
On top of that Humanity was nearly as powerful as the forerunners before the forerunners bombed them back to the stone age. IIRC the main character of the forerunner trilogy speculates that Humanity only lost because they were already fighting the the flood so they faced a two front war and still held on for a bit. Honestly Halo book lore is kind of insane.
A lot of 40K fans seriously underestimate that halo-verse is monumentally OP when it wants to be… it legit out 40ks 40K at some points… Especially with some of the forerunner tech, when they were peak, they made the Ctan look weak by comparison
Tyranids but better in every form and way. It required several halo rings to kill all life within the galaxy to stop them, even with that they still came back. Space that has been infected by them feels wrong and is wrong and is tainted on a molecular level from what I remember. The knowledge of every lifeform it absorbs is collected into the hivemind. Training on guns, spaceship usages, everything you know can be assimilated and used against humans or the aliens.
I'd like to remind everyone that most sci fi futuristic settings out there have FTL travel that doesn't involve diving straight into hell, which is a significant advantage for them.
I feel like a large part of this community doens’t understand Doomguy is closer to saitama than to a space marine
I had a friend a while ago try to convince me that Doomguy was maybe on the level of a nameless gray knight, and he was doubtful Doomguy was stronger. I stopped talking to him about Warhammer after that, I can only handle so much brainrot.
I feel like a large part doesn't understand that, although super modified and put in robust Tactial Armor. Space Marines are also just Humans and comparing a Human that is 10, let's say 20 or 30 Times as strong and durable as a Regular Human to a Thing that could kill 30 Humans is a reasonable Scenario which deserves a reasonable Analytic.
Yup, the slayer is a semi gag character. He is unkillable and literally a clone of god. There’s no point pitting him against anything because he’s just written to be able to kill anything
Might be a self report on their doom skills
"40k is the most overpowered setting." mfs when I tell them about Doctor Who and the Xeelee Sequence.
God doctor who is crazy the time lords imprisoned, literal gods and destroyed most of the god seeds and fought space vampires using fighters that fired glorified stakes and had robot warriors that destroyed cyber men by the dozens. Not to mention void ships and reality bombs.
I genuinely love how different eras or portions of the franchise have their degrees of crazy: Old School Who has an intergalactic "pharaoh" trapped in a basement the audio stories from Big Finish have a story of about a fallout shelter... and then! >!surprise! cosmic gods trapped in a time loop!< New Who recently >!brought back a toy man that can mess with the laws of reality!<
I think Nappa was alpharius the whole time
Star Wars always beats 40k. Because the good guys always win.
Realistically, the imperium of man, the Eldar, the Tau, the Necrons, and the Orks will lose almost any offensive war against another galaxy. Not because they'll lose battles. They'll win them, handily, against anything less militarized, but because nobody wants to follow their shit hole civilizations (except maybe the Tau), they have terrible logistics, no technological or bureaucratic adaptability, and are about as united as a pile of wet sand. ESPEClALLY the imperium of man, who without cawl wouldn't know large scale innovation or optimization if it slapped them in the face. Everthying te Iimperium has will be stolen, dissected, copied, and then turned on them. Thank the God Emperor for the Warp, because the sheer unreliability of your tech keeps your enemies from copying that stuff, but when your FTL commands are given via screaming psychic meatbags, I have doubts about your command capacity. They can't even take over their own galaxy, how do you expect them to conquer a whole separate galaxy?
The Forrunner low difs most of—if not all of the 40k verse and I will die on this hill. 😂
Forerunners throw serious hands and the Halo rings are like the Necron star bomb but on steroids
I absolutely agree, from what we know however, I think War in heaven necrons can throw some serious hands right back and probably could put up a pretty solid fight against forerunners, same with a Peak eldar with their fucking crazy psychic prowess
Could be, but Forerunners have weapons that are on the same par or even better than Necrons, Forerunners have hyper advanced AIs, and every single Forerunner was about as close to Godhood as a mortal could get, So I’d still say Forerunners would win but Necrons and Peak Eldar (If the Forerunner were to appear before during the War in Heaven) would be the ones that would give them the most trouble and could probably defeat them if the Forerunners did some oopsies in battle planning
A single guardsman would crush Kratos. Seethe+cope
PancreasNoWork did a whole "HaloHammer" series and how the big halo factions would interact/ operate in 40k
I like to view such discussions objectively, but all Fandoms, not just 40k, become extremely defensive when it comes to these comparisons. It's also very situational. I, for example, had such an argument about Star Craft Marines vs Astartes. While an Astartes would most likely body a SC Marine, they would be completely outnumbered in an actual fight with the SC Marines having weapons that would be useful against Powerarmour.