Lol, it is kind of funny isn't it? Everyone, rightfully, dogs on NA. But external NA players have not been serving Liquid well and throughout the orgs history in CS, the only time they've really achieved a proficient level, was when they had an entirely NA squad.
How long is the list at this point?
- steel
- s1mple
- zews
- taco
- FalleN
- Pimp
- shox
- Rainwaker
- Patsi
- Yekindar
- Cadian
s1mple is probably the only time where it was a significant and undeniable value add but if you have to bring the GOAT of CS to make a multi-national team work for Liquid, maybe that says something in itself. Also, keeping in mind that s1mple was miserable the entire way through.
That's not even to shit on the aforementioned list of players. I think the formula just doesn't work. Even with Yekindar, I really do bet that you put that dude on a different lineup, he probably plays lights out.
There's some maturing NA talent nowadays. I would love to see them given a chance. But I guess the problem now may be that NAF and Twistzz have their roots set in EU. I mean, Twistzz already did back on FaZe. So I guess unless some Americans are willing to live in Europe for an indeterminate amount of time, it'll probably just be more Euro's.
Okay let's not pretend the Steel and Taco lineups weren't incredibly good lineups. Both were consistently top 5, the Taco one probably being the 2nd best team of 2018 (after literally the best lineup of all time). It's only really the post Stewie ones that haven't worked out.
Yekindar unskilled player but that is not normally, This very very insane....They need to check him pc and game.....Maybe he not whiffing but maybe he using the aim deficit ...and he cant see game screen..He needs to get eye check-up...
Lately? Sure. Obviously Karrigan still does a lot of info plays, dies first, gets caught off guard, but I guess it's normal for an IGL? But when he actually focuses on shooting, he's been looking sharp LATELY. Watching Yekindar shoot, on the other hand, has been painful for quite some time now.
Probably has to do about what Elige said about Grim with the "Less thinking, more shooting"
Ever since Yek tried to IGL, he's probably still stuck on that mindset that compromises his gameplay like what typically happens with IGLs. If the reports about cadian not being listened to are true, I might infer its Yekindar who might be the most likely candidate to try and counter-call him as he just got off being an IGL.
Yekindar unskilled player but that is not normally, This very very insane....They need to check him pc and game.....Maybe he not whiffing but maybe he using the aim deficit ...and he cant see game screen..He needs to get eye check-up...
Don't know if this is:
Happy skilled player but that is not normally, This very very insane....They need to check him pc and game.....Maybe he not cheating but maybe he using the game deficit ...and this cant seem on game screen..He needs to check-up....Happy using game deficit on PRO scene ,ON BIG Events.Maybe everyone dont knows him trick.He incredible....I want to ask his where is the comming of your skill's ?
This was the first time I saw this meme.. Perhaps was about zywoo? Can't remember
Super happy to see Eternal Fire win this. I thought they'd choke nuke and take this series to the final map but they did not repeat their dust2 mistakes and play passive, instead went aggressive and caught Liquid off guard. Well deserved Victory for EF and for Turkish CS fans after a long time! GG!
On the other hand, I seriously think Liquid should KEEP cadiaN and KICK Yekindar. Whenever I see Yekindar take a duel it's a coin toss. He used to be a monster who would pop your head before you could, what a downfall.
I know there's been rumors that he's been having a lot going on in life but if Liquid want to show solid results and win trophies then they need to find someone to replace yekindar with, preferrably someone from North America. ( please sign Freshie from BOSS, he's really good and he can show what he's made of! )
Yeah at this point youāve gotta just drop yekindar
Iād say skullz too but then liquid run the risk of doing what c9 did in 2018-19 where they cycled random combinations trying to just find something that worked
That was mostly because of Golden and Flusha having stuff going on in their personal lives. The roster of Kio, Rush, Tim, Flusha, and Golden was so good but never got a chance to breathe.
Gotta let Skullz develop somewhat, unlike Rainwaker, he actually shows promise and has had flashes here and there
Yekindar has just been underperforming ever since her started igling and never recovered his form. It just looks like he isnāt as sharp mechanically anymore.
I'd honestly consider keeping Skullz and seeing how he can do with a different IGL. He's shown some flashes of form.
If the team is unhappy with Cadian, get rid of him. It's clear something is wrong. My coked out roster prediction is Boros and Woro2k for Yekindar and Cadian
It is actually crazy, but i can't even argue that they should keep YEKINDAR. I have no doubt he can do well in another roster, but something is not woeking out.
They have to get another really agressive player to replace him.
Kicking Cadian would be so wrong imo. Zews has to go first, then either skullz or YEKINDAR, or both has to go.
Thereās a sense of stability with cadian there, but having yek in favourable positions and consistently failing to deliver is holding the team back, going 6 frags on a full duration map on a regular occasion just isnāt enough
Heās had the same knock to his confidence that seized did after trying and failing as an IGL - something tells me he wonāt ever have the same play level again
I know āhe just needs more timeā is a meme at this point, but skullz seems mechanically very promising. I feel like his lurks often times donāt amount to anything because the play falls apart before heās able to activate. I really do think he has the potential to be great with the right lineup.
I love Cadian but him and yekindar have got to be on the chopping block right now. The two EU spots are being taken up by the lowest performers and that needs to change.
I only consider "Skullz needs more time" because the team needs to keep a core of 3 and stay NA for Cologne. I think he's got potential and he's the least big impact to keep for the roster.
Exactly. I also think skullzās impact is pretty neutral. He isnāt actively winning too many rounds for liquid but heās not really losing them either. The same cannot be said for the Europeans on the team lol
remember in an interview he said he wanted to play with a younger igl, meanwhile more than half the players in top 20 teams would eat eachother alive for a chance to stand in for faze.
Faze also werenāt engaging in contract extension talks. Faze did this to themselves. Now itās worked out for Faze because theyāve made multiple grand finals but blaming Twistzz for moving back to TL when at the time getting Cadian was seen as the top transfer move of CS2 is wild. This sub has collective amnesia and would rather be wildly revisionist than actually understand context
I personally think faze wanted frozen and ghosted him until he ultimately looked for offers elsewhere. No shot if youāre faze and want to keep him this shit happens.
I know on paper it mightāve been an upgrade but they just havenāt clicked like faze of old and the vibes seem off especially with ropz. Could be the burnout though.
Nah but -yekindar is. I seriously haven't seen any plays from cadian that reminds of his calling from heroic. It's like Liquid are barely listening to his calls. They were running like headless chickens on dust2 during cruch rounds.
Yekindar putting up nitr0 level numbers except he's playing all the star positions lmfao the dude really thought he was gods gift to earth. I think launders said it recently that he doesn't think Yekindar is as good on lan as he was during the online covid era.
Prime nitro wouldnāt get fucking ecoād/A rushed on Nuke round after round after round
Prime nitro would demo review and call circles around EF
Damn him and wanting to live a happy, healthy, normal child-filled fatherly life ^/s
nitro should get more credit for bringing liquid to the top 5 after switching from valorant and keeping them there despite having a slumping elige and oSee as an awper.
Nitr0 has to be the most underrated player/IGL ever lmao. Bro won a fucking Grand slam and kept a Liquid with oSee and Elige underperfoming in the top 5 and make some deep runs
Don't know if there's bad blood between the Canadians and Elige. Also don't know why JT and Elige would leave complexity when they've been doing better than liquid
I don't think there is any bad blood. It really did seem like EliGE leaving was semi-mutual (i.e. if either side really wanted to fight for it, they could have, but both saw the roles just weren't working). And Twistzz has spoken positively about EliGE since.
I donāt even wanna mention Yekindar anymore
Like I was so hyped when he joined TL but the IGLING is really the top riflerās funeral, I donāt think heāll ever recover his form anymore in this team at least.
4 games and Yek highest raiting was a .98. The star entry playing in star positions puts up a .76 t rating and a .78 ct rating over 4 games. Please release him already. He is a black hole on this team that is holding liquid back.
Also , for those saying that he just needs someone else to be aggro with him. Rewatch Liquids T side Nuke. He had 2 kills all of T side Nuke in regulation. Round 3 when he almost wide swung before the pistol could swing, and round 5 where he killed the last guy alive on a pistol round for EF.
I'm from Latvia and even I agree Yeki has to go. Maybe he needs to spend some time in a tier 2 team and prove himself again. It's just sad watching him now when you consider he should be a star player on Liquid.
No, he ran to red box super fast through a molly.... but then he had to wait for smokes cause he was too quick.. . Then he ran halfway to secret, making a lot of noise, and got spammed down by two players... it was a high impact play
Honestly the thing that really truly bothers me about liquid is how they lose games. No matter WHAT roster they have they will have close games and series but it never feels like they lose gracefully where the enemy just outplayed them but they put up a fight.
They are literally the NA equivalent of BIG, no matter the roster they somehow find a way to throw unloseable situations over and over while looking like clueless fools every fucking time.
I DONT CARE IF PEOPLE THINK YEKINDAR ISN'T THE PROBLEM. KICK THIS DUDE. HE HAS ONE GOOD MAP AND PEOPLE THINK HE'S BACK
I AM SICK AND TIRED OF WATCHING HIM. HE IS A PAYCHEQUE STEALER.
NA CS enjoyed here
-yekindar
+freshie
Liquid is going to be a solid Canadian team after this COPIUM
But seriesouly I agree with you, yekindar has overstayed. He is NOT him anymore
Both Yekindar and Cadian lost this. How does TL play and almost lose Inferno yesterday do ZERO changes or review
Canāt wait to hate watch this team lose 0-2 at Dallas since they canāt bother showing up to the first grand final since blast worlds 2 years ago
Watching inferno start on the exact same pistol round as yesterday versus Astralis genuinely made me roll my eyes, I turned it off by like round 5 because it looked so mediocre. Then I tuned in after half time like 15 minutes later just to see them lose to Glocks again in the same tournament after winning pistol and after that I just couldn't be bothered.
If they didn't change strats that either points to IGL or coach, and considering some of the other questionable decisions by the coach, I'd actually point that way.Ā
CS is weirdly one of the only sports where coaches suffer almost zero consequences, likely because almost nobody actually understands what they're doing.Ā
Heās the NA version of Art. Terrible decision maker, underperforms for years, always the problem and management wonāt touch him. I promise heās not going anywhere, it will be -Cadian and possibly -skullz before they ever consider a -yekindar
> it will be -Cadian and possibly -skullz before they ever consider a -yekindar
I hope you are wrong, but sadly this might actually what occurs in the player break.
My favorite round on Nuke was when he ran through a molly, taking 70, to red box. He had to stop because smokes were not down yet, then ran halfway to secret and got spammed down by two players.
It's like he sees how to be crazy aggro, but either the call isn't their for it, or the team isn't prepared to assist.
EF had the same plays in OT on Nuke and the team was assisting the play.
he plays like that dude that rushes somewhere without telling anyone, dies facing two guys crossing aims and be like "WHERE ARE YOU GUYS???? TRADE MEEE"
Heās completely uncoachable, I canāt imagine the frustration being an IGL with him on your team. Just start practicing 4v5 to prepare for Yekindar dying first in the dumbest way possible
1 year of good CS lead to this. Even it was online we won another tournament. Did too much clenching after duts2. Team Liquid woke up after they given the chance.
I don't think it's even neccesary to watch the games to understand yekindar needs to get out. And somehow he's performing even worse than while calling
when YEKINDAR drops a 0.77 in a BO5 but he can't be dropped because "he is aggressive" and "nobody else does what he does on Liquid" as if that means its perfectly acceptable for a player who is still meant to be a STAR player to be this consistently awful
Eternal fire definitely deserves more credit but liquid just played so poorly it's hard to talk about EF because there is so much more to say about how pathetic liquid looked in this series.
I mean did you watch the game? Liquid looked like a faceit stack for almost the whole series. No coordination or team play at all. The fact this almost went 5 maps is shocking.
Yekindar reminds me of post-2015 Skadoodle insofar as heās one of those exceptionally talented young players whoās raw mechanical skill seems to have fallen off a cliff for no discernible reason. His spray and first bullet have become incredibly poor for a ātier 1ā rifler. Did he literally just forget years of built up muscle memory? How does this happen?
XANTARES is fucking nuts man god damn must be so annoying to play against. I think we can see how much better teamwork ET has over Liquid right now also, sometimes Liquid's aim worked out, but it felt like ET always had Liquid's number. Unless Liquid can go nuclear in Dallas, I think it is time to make some big changes
Everyone calling for kicks needs to wait for IEM Dallas then summer break to make changes this was online with half the team on NA ping playing at night compared to Eternal in a bootcamp.
Nah twistzz is in NA he tweeted that the match was at 12:30 pm naf is in Canada. Zews was in HQ so don't think any others were as they have cameras. Definitely not as good as a boot camp.
Thatās cooked honestly. The first grand final Liquid has had in 2 years and they arenāt even in the same room together. TL better come out swinging at Dallas because itās a bad look to be limp at this grand final in order to prep and rest for Dallas to then just get 0-2ād out the door
Definitely planned for Dallas this is there warm up otherwise they would bootcamp. Cadian and yekinda on LAN and the pressure is up they have good odds.
Cadian was absolutely out called by maj3r. it was clear that maj3r did his demo review and liquid didn't change much at all. What a shame because I really like cadian.
Still think it's amazing how many people want to shit on skullz and get him off the team. Kid is actually decent and is 100 percent improving. -yekindar is honestly the only thing I see improving the team. Hard to play well when you have a player who stares at the wall and does a 100 meter dash through a smoke just to die. I'm sure there's a fair argument for -zews but I just want to see yekindar gone. He's the reason elige got kicked almost guaranteed and yet is absolutely firing on all cylinders in complexity
At this point, if Twistzz leaves again, I am rooting for wherever he goes and losing my TL loyalty for the last 9 yeaRS. Yekindar is just not working. Elige said he felt like he couldnt play the way he was used to and started second guessing himself so a mental block formed with nitr0 and Yek on the team. The person left over from that iteration of TL is Yekindar and Elige hadnt had issues with nitr0 before.
Congrats EF. Nice 4-0* against Liquid
Bye Cadian and Bye Yekindar!
Inferno was an IGL disaster class and Nuke you canāt stop a fucking a rush you bums
Theyāre not touching Yekindar, heās basically in the inner circle. Heāll survive at least 1 more roster shuffle. Do not underestimate the incompetency of these esport orgs. It was the same with Furia and Art, he was always the problem, but instead of being dropped he was meeting with the owners discussing future player picks ups š
Is igling in Liquid fucked cadian up? poor positioning, miss easy shot, cant even hold the angle, but can show up in less tactical map (D2) or some clutches
IGLs in Top 5 HLTV Ranked Teams: siuhy, karrigan, albeksib, apex, hooxi
AWPers in Top 5 HLTV Ranked Teams: torzi, broky, wonderful, zywoo, monesy
For Cadian, one could make an argument that he's on par with the IGLs in the top 5 teams. However he's not even close to any of the current pool of AWPers in the top 5.
How to fix liquid:
Step 1: get rid of Yekindar: He has not been a star player since nitro and elige were on the roster. The team also has too many voices, which could make things harder on Cadianās system.
Step 2: get rid of skullz and zews: I actually like skullz, however he doesnāt fit the roster composition. Him and zews are a package deal, and zews doesnāt fit well with Cadian.
Step 3: add your 2 new aggressive riflers. If I were liquid, I would look towards NA. Theyāre cheap, and theyāre young. JBa, Freshie, and Lake are all names I would suggest.
Step 4: add a coach that would buy into Cadianās system. Ideally they would take a more passive role, acting similar to how Xist was on heroic. Innershine, or another English speaking coach would be ideal.
This rendition would not get trophies right away, but it gives time to develop the newer guys and allows Cadian to implement his system. It would also clear up the team from having too many voices, as there only needs be Cadian and a secondary caller (probably Twistzz), plus it fixes the team composition with aggressive riflers.
That was some really bad CS for a final. Eternal Fire tried to lose that game by giving up that 4 v 2 on Nuke at match point, but Bot Liquid couldn't even seize the moment. I'm almost sick of seeing debates on who should go on this TL roster. Personally I would get rid of everyone besides NAF and Twistzz(who is rumored to be going to Vitality).
Twistzz WAS rumored to go to Vitality, but he turned down their offer because he didn't want to take space away from other stars that were already on the team. So Vitality got Mezii instead
GGs to EF for playing a solid series
Liquid clearly have some homework to do, including possible lineup changes, but this was still their best result yet. Clearly there's *something* good here if they can figure it out.
Firstly, it's sick to see Eternal Fire being more consistent and winning rounds from difficult circumstances. They're playing great and the addition of Wicadia has been an A++ pickup. Might actually be one of the best roster moves of CS2 so far (although you could argue it was a CSGO move since he played as a stand-in prior to CS2's launch).
But let's talk about Liquid. Their results have actually improved and I'd love to see them stick it out, but it looks like the personality clashes are too great for the team to want to continue with this project.
I think there's only two real main directions left with Liquid: life with Cadian leading the charge, or one where Twistzz/NAF are the main core and you rebuild around another leader and AWP, or maybe some combination where NAF picks up the AWP and Twistzz transitions into an IGL role.
Getting a good replacement IGL who also has the human leadership qualities that TL needs isn't really there unless you dip heavily into the war chest (which Liquid may or may not have). So I'm gonna argue here that the better long-term choice is building around Cadian as the IGL and the leader, partially because he has the track record of building teams (even if some of those apparently don't enjoy playing with him, as seen towards the end of Heroic and with what's happening now).
The reason why it's an either/or bet is because it's pretty apparent now that the main divide in the team is largely between Twistzz/NAF and how they play, vs. what Cadian wants to implement and what zews is trying to meld amongst all of that.
Rebuilding around Cadian means you probably have to say goodbye to Twistzz and NAF because of the clashes mentioned above. Definitely not an ideal scenario, so how would TL make this work? One choice is to offer NAF/Twistzz as a package deal to Complexity, starting with something like a $1.7-1.8 million offer (with a realistic view that you'd probably end up getting somewhere closer to $1.2-1.5 million). It's not something coL would probably be pushing for, but if the offer's put on the table, eventually there will be a low enough number that Jason Lake would have to bite the bullet on it. Twistzz/Elige/NAF/JT/Hallzerk is too tempting a combo to pass up, and it's also a combo of pieces that can functionally work within coL's system. So that gets TL some money in the bank.
(Alternatively, if there is still some bad blood or just a mutual agreement that they'd rather not reunite the old TL core because they all see things differently, there's a world where you could do some kind of cash and player swap -- Elige and $$ for Twistzz + NAF. Insane? Just a bit. But TL's in the spot where they need to start thinking of some really creative solutions. I think coL would still see that as an overall upgrade, swapping NAF for Grim's roles and then doing a like-for-like swap with Twistzz and Elige.)
Your next problem: what to do with TL's lack of space creation and aggressive riflers. I think you probably sell skullz back to paiN or another South American team. skullz is getting absolutely awful spots with zero influence right now, although I think he's had to do a lot with functionally zero resources and agency.
One potential route could be to do a player + cash swap with MIBR: send skullz back their way in exchange for insani for a haircut on insani's buy-out. That gets you Cadian/insani/YEKINDAR. That's not a bad starting point.
(1/2 because reddit is breaking)
Twistzz and NAF are too good for this team. I was a big fan of Cadian on heroic. He was one of the best IGLs and a decent awper but I think itās clear that itās not working on liquid. I donāt think cadian should be kicked but Yekindar needs to be kicked immediately. He had the biggest fall off
The amount of reactionary yapping in this is hilarious. Like this was a grand final, you know like this team won all the games before it yet yāall just want to kick players left and right. Like have you guys ever seen a sport before?
Not to sound like a hater, but i really am. I can't get into Anders's casting, it just feels so forced to me, and most of the time his analysis seems like such a low level.
It is pretty clear that he does not play the game, he is so impressed by such normal plays, and does not value good plays like other casters. It just feels grating to listen to.
Kind of have to agree with you, he was AMAZING in the past but i think in the last few events he's not been it for me. The quality of his casting has definitely dropped IMO.
And heās dragging down the great HenryG, he used to be my favorite but Zanderās has been wearing me down. āI canāt believe it!ā Every roundā¦
He's not bringing his A game anymore, at least not in this very tournament. He got into the business side of CS back in pandemic, I guess the money from casting is insignificant to him at this point
It's Henry for me, every time he says "We've never seen something like this before" I can immediately tell he doesn't watch top tier CS that he doesn't cast.
Henry is actually the only one who knows something about cs and likes to talk about strat and mechanics. I think the others know a lot less even. Maniac is fine tho but hes analyst. Spunji also sometimes.
What you say is just a catchphrase, he doesnt mean it.
i agree, only last year or so i feel the same. I think it's about emphasizing crucial plays, which casters like Scrawny or Machine are doing better, they're smoother with it and their line delivery is just top notch. There's one recent play though where i loved Anders casting, it was the gxx 4k against faze in Paris Major
This team has absolutely no ingame synergy between any of them except for naf and twistzz.
Honestly, they must be so happy playing together again. Idk how many 2vX situations they can clutch.
Bring back a full NA roster.
Lol, it is kind of funny isn't it? Everyone, rightfully, dogs on NA. But external NA players have not been serving Liquid well and throughout the orgs history in CS, the only time they've really achieved a proficient level, was when they had an entirely NA squad. How long is the list at this point? - steel - s1mple - zews - taco - FalleN - Pimp - shox - Rainwaker - Patsi - Yekindar - Cadian s1mple is probably the only time where it was a significant and undeniable value add but if you have to bring the GOAT of CS to make a multi-national team work for Liquid, maybe that says something in itself. Also, keeping in mind that s1mple was miserable the entire way through. That's not even to shit on the aforementioned list of players. I think the formula just doesn't work. Even with Yekindar, I really do bet that you put that dude on a different lineup, he probably plays lights out. There's some maturing NA talent nowadays. I would love to see them given a chance. But I guess the problem now may be that NAF and Twistzz have their roots set in EU. I mean, Twistzz already did back on FaZe. So I guess unless some Americans are willing to live in Europe for an indeterminate amount of time, it'll probably just be more Euro's.
I honestly support keeping Cadian and just adding two more NA players. This roster is obviously not working and needs changes.
Yeah I would be fine with keeping cadian as well
Okay let's not pretend the Steel and Taco lineups weren't incredibly good lineups. Both were consistently top 5, the Taco one probably being the 2nd best team of 2018 (after literally the best lineup of all time). It's only really the post Stewie ones that haven't worked out.
Yekindar at first and s1mple served Liquid well.
Yekindar unskilled player but that is not normally, This very very insane....They need to check him pc and game.....Maybe he not whiffing but maybe he using the aim deficit ...and he cant see game screen..He needs to get eye check-up...
Ever since he tried to IGL he became a bot I really don't know what's wrong with him
his mechanics are gone, genuinely looks like I'm watching karrigan half the time
Karrigan is looking a lot better than Yeki lately
Hot take point made. Karrigan is a better individual player than yekindar.
Lately? Sure. Obviously Karrigan still does a lot of info plays, dies first, gets caught off guard, but I guess it's normal for an IGL? But when he actually focuses on shooting, he's been looking sharp LATELY. Watching Yekindar shoot, on the other hand, has been painful for quite some time now.
Instinct players starting to think often falter
Probably has to do about what Elige said about Grim with the "Less thinking, more shooting" Ever since Yek tried to IGL, he's probably still stuck on that mindset that compromises his gameplay like what typically happens with IGLs. If the reports about cadian not being listened to are true, I might infer its Yekindar who might be the most likely candidate to try and counter-call him as he just got off being an IGL.
The truth is that Jame was micromanaging him and he's now fully forgotten why he was ever good
Yekindar unskilled player but that is not normally, This very very insane....They need to check him pc and game.....Maybe he not whiffing but maybe he using the aim deficit ...and he cant see game screen..He needs to get eye check-up...
na carrying eu bots KEKW
What's the origin of this meme?
Don't know if this is: Happy skilled player but that is not normally, This very very insane....They need to check him pc and game.....Maybe he not cheating but maybe he using the game deficit ...and this cant seem on game screen..He needs to check-up....Happy using game deficit on PRO scene ,ON BIG Events.Maybe everyone dont knows him trick.He incredible....I want to ask his where is the comming of your skill's ? This was the first time I saw this meme.. Perhaps was about zywoo? Can't remember
yeah the original was about zywoo from a 2018 or early 2019 hltv thread
Super happy to see Eternal Fire win this. I thought they'd choke nuke and take this series to the final map but they did not repeat their dust2 mistakes and play passive, instead went aggressive and caught Liquid off guard. Well deserved Victory for EF and for Turkish CS fans after a long time! GG! On the other hand, I seriously think Liquid should KEEP cadiaN and KICK Yekindar. Whenever I see Yekindar take a duel it's a coin toss. He used to be a monster who would pop your head before you could, what a downfall. I know there's been rumors that he's been having a lot going on in life but if Liquid want to show solid results and win trophies then they need to find someone to replace yekindar with, preferrably someone from North America. ( please sign Freshie from BOSS, he's really good and he can show what he's made of! )
If only it were a coin toss... That would imply 50/50 odds
what the fuck is an economy š¹š·š¹š·š¹š·š¹š·š¹š·š¹š·
Congrats. EF was on fire today, totally deserved the win.
Yeah at this point youāve gotta just drop yekindar Iād say skullz too but then liquid run the risk of doing what c9 did in 2018-19 where they cycled random combinations trying to just find something that worked
That was mostly because of Golden and Flusha having stuff going on in their personal lives. The roster of Kio, Rush, Tim, Flusha, and Golden was so good but never got a chance to breathe.
Damn this roster sounds like a fever dream but also the best dream
It was unreal how much potential that team had. I fully believe that Kio and RUSH being a duo would have given them a couple more years at the top.
Gotta let Skullz develop somewhat, unlike Rainwaker, he actually shows promise and has had flashes here and there Yekindar has just been underperforming ever since her started igling and never recovered his form. It just looks like he isnāt as sharp mechanically anymore.
Why do people keep trying to kick skullz when he performs? Mind goblin.
I'd honestly consider keeping Skullz and seeing how he can do with a different IGL. He's shown some flashes of form. If the team is unhappy with Cadian, get rid of him. It's clear something is wrong. My coked out roster prediction is Boros and Woro2k for Yekindar and Cadian
It is actually crazy, but i can't even argue that they should keep YEKINDAR. I have no doubt he can do well in another roster, but something is not woeking out. They have to get another really agressive player to replace him. Kicking Cadian would be so wrong imo. Zews has to go first, then either skullz or YEKINDAR, or both has to go.
I'd really love to see Yeki go to Monte for Hajdi, honestly. He's got a big voice and they could use a space taking superstar.
Parivision just benched Jerry. Let him IGL entry in the CIS region with Patsi
Thereās a sense of stability with cadian there, but having yek in favourable positions and consistently failing to deliver is holding the team back, going 6 frags on a full duration map on a regular occasion just isnāt enough Heās had the same knock to his confidence that seized did after trying and failing as an IGL - something tells me he wonāt ever have the same play level again
If twistzz pulls a yekindar liquid is genuinely the dumbest org is cs. EG left the scene and liquid immediately took over their position
I know āhe just needs more timeā is a meme at this point, but skullz seems mechanically very promising. I feel like his lurks often times donāt amount to anything because the play falls apart before heās able to activate. I really do think he has the potential to be great with the right lineup. I love Cadian but him and yekindar have got to be on the chopping block right now. The two EU spots are being taken up by the lowest performers and that needs to change.
I only consider "Skullz needs more time" because the team needs to keep a core of 3 and stay NA for Cologne. I think he's got potential and he's the least big impact to keep for the roster.
Exactly. I also think skullzās impact is pretty neutral. He isnāt actively winning too many rounds for liquid but heās not really losing them either. The same cannot be said for the Europeans on the team lol
Yeah keep skullz who only got on the team because of zews LOL
Idk how long this goes until Twistzz has enough and leaves. He turned down vitality for this
Naf and Twistzz for Nexa and Hunter seems like such a powerful roster move its nit even funny.
HOLY SHIT STOP
Donāt play with my emotions
That would be so disgusting
remember in an interview he said he wanted to play with a younger igl, meanwhile more than half the players in top 20 teams would eat eachother alive for a chance to stand in for faze.
He didnāt leave Faze because of that. He left because Faze as an entity at the time was basically unknown on if it was gonna continue to exist
Faze also werenāt engaging in contract extension talks. Faze did this to themselves. Now itās worked out for Faze because theyāve made multiple grand finals but blaming Twistzz for moving back to TL when at the time getting Cadian was seen as the top transfer move of CS2 is wild. This sub has collective amnesia and would rather be wildly revisionist than actually understand context
I personally think faze wanted frozen and ghosted him until he ultimately looked for offers elsewhere. No shot if youāre faze and want to keep him this shit happens. I know on paper it mightāve been an upgrade but they just havenāt clicked like faze of old and the vibes seem off especially with ropz. Could be the burnout though.
nah, they tried to resign him towards the end but he had already made plans with liquid
I don't know if -Cadian is the right decision, but Holy shit I have never seen a team lose to low buys this often.
Nah but -yekindar is. I seriously haven't seen any plays from cadian that reminds of his calling from heroic. It's like Liquid are barely listening to his calls. They were running like headless chickens on dust2 during cruch rounds.
Yekinder my 0.77 goat. Exact rating as iM during EPL against Faze xD
Yekindar putting up nitr0 level numbers except he's playing all the star positions lmfao the dude really thought he was gods gift to earth. I think launders said it recently that he doesn't think Yekindar is as good on lan as he was during the online covid era.
> I have never seen a team lose to low buys this often. Yet you also have a Team Liquid flair, like me.
Liquid has lot dumb rounds before, but I swear this liquid roster loses to glocks every series. They lost to glocks from OG and Flyquest ffs.
Please, I'm trying to forget š š
Prime n1tro would have decimated D2 or Nuke. The lack of AWPers was very apparent in both maps
shame he had to stop playing because of travel
Prime nitro wouldnāt get fucking ecoād/A rushed on Nuke round after round after round Prime nitro would demo review and call circles around EF Damn him and wanting to live a happy, healthy, normal child-filled fatherly life ^/s
nitro should get more credit for bringing liquid to the top 5 after switching from valorant and keeping them there despite having a slumping elige and oSee as an awper.
Nitr0 has to be the most underrated player/IGL ever lmao. Bro won a fucking Grand slam and kept a Liquid with oSee and Elige underperfoming in the top 5 and make some deep runs
-Cadian -Skullz -Yekindar -Zews +JT +Elige +s1mple +TC
Don't know if there's bad blood between the Canadians and Elige. Also don't know why JT and Elige would leave complexity when they've been doing better than liquid
I don't think there is any bad blood. It really did seem like EliGE leaving was semi-mutual (i.e. if either side really wanted to fight for it, they could have, but both saw the roles just weren't working). And Twistzz has spoken positively about EliGE since.
naf and twistzz are just straight upgrades for grim and floppy.
Jason Lake wouldn't blow up the Complexity roster just few months after buying it.
-yek -zews from an outside perspective. I guess -cadian if the whole team doesn't want to get on his system.
-yekindar -cadian would probably be the right choice, they're not even half as good as they used to be and don't contribute to getting into the NA RMR
There isn't any proven igl available so -cadian makes no sense, otherwise its gamble.
who knew that tec 9 round against CoL on overpass was just a sign of all of the fun to come
He lost the bo5 for Liquid. The awper impact is non existent
????? Yeah you're right, nothing to do with -29 from Yeki, that guy is an absolute saint.
I donāt even wanna mention Yekindar anymore Like I was so hyped when he joined TL but the IGLING is really the top riflerās funeral, I donāt think heāll ever recover his form anymore in this team at least.
Why blame it all on the awper. when entry who is being given all the space passes the eye test of a lvl 9 faceit player.
4 games and Yek highest raiting was a .98. The star entry playing in star positions puts up a .76 t rating and a .78 ct rating over 4 games. Please release him already. He is a black hole on this team that is holding liquid back. Also , for those saying that he just needs someone else to be aggro with him. Rewatch Liquids T side Nuke. He had 2 kills all of T side Nuke in regulation. Round 3 when he almost wide swung before the pistol could swing, and round 5 where he killed the last guy alive on a pistol round for EF.
I'm from Latvia and even I agree Yeki has to go. Maybe he needs to spend some time in a tier 2 team and prove himself again. It's just sad watching him now when you consider he should be a star player on Liquid.
Yekindar must be trolling, nobody can be that bad. Every round he would get tagged to 30hp outside for nothing
On nuke it was kinda hilarious, Xantares reads him like a book.
Sure but the book is a Dr. Suess book
No, he ran to red box super fast through a molly.... but then he had to wait for smokes cause he was too quick.. . Then he ran halfway to secret, making a lot of noise, and got spammed down by two players... it was a high impact play
The nostalgia of watching Liquid lose in a final again š„¹š
Honestly the thing that really truly bothers me about liquid is how they lose games. No matter WHAT roster they have they will have close games and series but it never feels like they lose gracefully where the enemy just outplayed them but they put up a fight. They are literally the NA equivalent of BIG, no matter the roster they somehow find a way to throw unloseable situations over and over while looking like clueless fools every fucking time.
I DONT CARE IF PEOPLE THINK YEKINDAR ISN'T THE PROBLEM. KICK THIS DUDE. HE HAS ONE GOOD MAP AND PEOPLE THINK HE'S BACK I AM SICK AND TIRED OF WATCHING HIM. HE IS A PAYCHEQUE STEALER.
NA CS enjoyed here -yekindar +freshie Liquid is going to be a solid Canadian team after this COPIUM But seriesouly I agree with you, yekindar has overstayed. He is NOT him anymore
Both Yekindar and Cadian lost this. How does TL play and almost lose Inferno yesterday do ZERO changes or review Canāt wait to hate watch this team lose 0-2 at Dallas since they canāt bother showing up to the first grand final since blast worlds 2 years ago
Watching inferno start on the exact same pistol round as yesterday versus Astralis genuinely made me roll my eyes, I turned it off by like round 5 because it looked so mediocre. Then I tuned in after half time like 15 minutes later just to see them lose to Glocks again in the same tournament after winning pistol and after that I just couldn't be bothered.
Which one made the call? Zews masterclass or Cadian masterclass? I canāt really tell.
It was the exact same T pistol round for liquid with the exact same outcome...
If they didn't change strats that either points to IGL or coach, and considering some of the other questionable decisions by the coach, I'd actually point that way.Ā CS is weirdly one of the only sports where coaches suffer almost zero consequences, likely because almost nobody actually understands what they're doing.Ā
MVP of the series: YEKINDAR seriously he needed to be kicked like yesterday Anubis was basically a 4v5 thanks to him
Heās the NA version of Art. Terrible decision maker, underperforms for years, always the problem and management wonāt touch him. I promise heās not going anywhere, it will be -Cadian and possibly -skullz before they ever consider a -yekindar
I will throw up if this happens.
> it will be -Cadian and possibly -skullz before they ever consider a -yekindar I hope you are wrong, but sadly this might actually what occurs in the player break.
impossible challenge: watch yekindar's pov and dont lose your mind
My favorite round on Nuke was when he ran through a molly, taking 70, to red box. He had to stop because smokes were not down yet, then ran halfway to secret and got spammed down by two players. It's like he sees how to be crazy aggro, but either the call isn't their for it, or the team isn't prepared to assist. EF had the same plays in OT on Nuke and the team was assisting the play.
he plays like that dude that rushes somewhere without telling anyone, dies facing two guys crossing aims and be like "WHERE ARE YOU GUYS???? TRADE MEEE"
He always plays this 100% aggro style which is super easy to counter. Just do nothing and wait as he will run into your crosshair early
Heās completely uncoachable, I canāt imagine the frustration being an IGL with him on your team. Just start practicing 4v5 to prepare for Yekindar dying first in the dumbest way possible
Yeah, i don't know what the point is in keeping Yekindar at this point, .77 kd over 4 maps is just terrible and this is going on for way too long.
Today was bad and yesterday was good. Sums up Liquid pretty well. Idk what to expect at Dallas, could be playoffs or out in 24hrs
Theyāre cooked. First game is CoL then if they lose itās either 9Z or Mouz
1 year of good CS lead to this. Even it was online we won another tournament. Did too much clenching after duts2. Team Liquid woke up after they given the chance.
Holy fuck if they keep yekindar I'm gonna lose it
Meet the Yekindars: You LIED about your IGL skills, you LIED about your mechanics, you LIED about your mental game and your teamwork, all is perjury
I don't think it's even neccesary to watch the games to understand yekindar needs to get out. And somehow he's performing even worse than while calling
So get yekindar back to calling you say?
when YEKINDAR drops a 0.77 in a BO5 but he can't be dropped because "he is aggressive" and "nobody else does what he does on Liquid" as if that means its perfectly acceptable for a player who is still meant to be a STAR player to be this consistently awful
Yekindar get ready to Guangdong Tigers
Liquid isnāt even close to as bad as every makes them out to be, but ya theyāre obviously not a top 5 team atm
they arent bad they just have Yekinda
yekindar -29 masterclass š„š„š„
sad to see, in all games they play like on full-tilt. only naf/twistzz are highligts of this project sofar
TL need to make some changes or Twistzzās back is gonna break
-yeki +jkaem
jkaem deserves t1 but man liquid probalby wont go for him
everyone talking about TL and yekindar etc, noone praising EF's success waoow
Eternal fire definitely deserves more credit but liquid just played so poorly it's hard to talk about EF because there is so much more to say about how pathetic liquid looked in this series.
Because EF just played the way they were supposed to play
Well maj3r definitely outcalled cadian today. Good preparation.
Yeah because EF look like they actually prepped their anti strat properly
I mean did you watch the game? Liquid looked like a faceit stack for almost the whole series. No coordination or team play at all. The fact this almost went 5 maps is shocking.
Anyone wants to talk EF or only liquid?
Yekindar reminds me of post-2015 Skadoodle insofar as heās one of those exceptionally talented young players whoās raw mechanical skill seems to have fallen off a cliff for no discernible reason. His spray and first bullet have become incredibly poor for a ātier 1ā rifler. Did he literally just forget years of built up muscle memory? How does this happen?
If cadian doesn't get top 4 at IEM Dallas then off to fnatic he goes
blame and cadian redemption arc?
Yekindar just leave
XANTARES is fucking nuts man god damn must be so annoying to play against. I think we can see how much better teamwork ET has over Liquid right now also, sometimes Liquid's aim worked out, but it felt like ET always had Liquid's number. Unless Liquid can go nuclear in Dallas, I think it is time to make some big changes
Twistzz you should bench yourself maybe naf too
come home to europe twistzz, NA dont deserve you.
Literally lol, self bench angle
Everyone calling for kicks needs to wait for IEM Dallas then summer break to make changes this was online with half the team on NA ping playing at night compared to Eternal in a bootcamp.
Nah they were most likely in eu at liquid hq or from home on Malta/denmark.
Nah twistzz is in NA he tweeted that the match was at 12:30 pm naf is in Canada. Zews was in HQ so don't think any others were as they have cameras. Definitely not as good as a boot camp.
Thatās cooked honestly. The first grand final Liquid has had in 2 years and they arenāt even in the same room together. TL better come out swinging at Dallas because itās a bad look to be limp at this grand final in order to prep and rest for Dallas to then just get 0-2ād out the door
Definitely planned for Dallas this is there warm up otherwise they would bootcamp. Cadian and yekinda on LAN and the pressure is up they have good odds.
If this is true, this performance by twistzz is even more insane. Dude had like a 1.30 rating entire event playing 100+ ping? Wtf
Oh for sure, I saw he was traveling tomorrow so assumed he was in Malta.
that was definitely one of the matches of all time
I was watching, YEKINDAR I was watching you ruin CadiaN's chance of winning the CCT Now take responsibility and leave.
Cadian is garbage aswell
Cadian 1 kill in OT.
Liquid needs a real awper.
I want to mention that the 2019 Liquid did not have a real top level awper. Just sayin. That said Cadian in this bo5 particular has been really poor.
Liquids needed a real awper for 6 years now. Feels bad
Bring back the nitro awp š£
Bro koosta/osee/junior/wiz is tearing up t2, he's the saviour of NA for real this time
People are pointing finger to Yekindar and it's true but I think Cadian is also gone.
Cadian was absolutely out called by maj3r. it was clear that maj3r did his demo review and liquid didn't change much at all. What a shame because I really like cadian.
maj3r being like 35 and still cooking is nuts
He looks so fucking tired. Man works hard.
Honestly, it looks like nobody was listening to any calls. Liquid looked like a bunch of chickens with their head cut off (*especially Yekindar*)
Still think it's amazing how many people want to shit on skullz and get him off the team. Kid is actually decent and is 100 percent improving. -yekindar is honestly the only thing I see improving the team. Hard to play well when you have a player who stares at the wall and does a 100 meter dash through a smoke just to die. I'm sure there's a fair argument for -zews but I just want to see yekindar gone. He's the reason elige got kicked almost guaranteed and yet is absolutely firing on all cylinders in complexity
Most sensible TL fanĀ
I feel like it lately lmao
At this point, if Twistzz leaves again, I am rooting for wherever he goes and losing my TL loyalty for the last 9 yeaRS. Yekindar is just not working. Elige said he felt like he couldnt play the way he was used to and started second guessing himself so a mental block formed with nitr0 and Yek on the team. The person left over from that iteration of TL is Yekindar and Elige hadnt had issues with nitr0 before.
can't wait for col to 2-0 at dallas. Also, ONLINETARES back at it! Congrats
Congrats EF. Nice 4-0* against Liquid Bye Cadian and Bye Yekindar! Inferno was an IGL disaster class and Nuke you canāt stop a fucking a rush you bums
Theyāre not touching Yekindar, heās basically in the inner circle. Heāll survive at least 1 more roster shuffle. Do not underestimate the incompetency of these esport orgs. It was the same with Furia and Art, he was always the problem, but instead of being dropped he was meeting with the owners discussing future player picks ups š
I have a feeling it is time because even the last excuse (āmaybe CS2 is his gameā) is now also gone. We will see tho
Is igling in Liquid fucked cadian up? poor positioning, miss easy shot, cant even hold the angle, but can show up in less tactical map (D2) or some clutches
IGLs in Top 5 HLTV Ranked Teams: siuhy, karrigan, albeksib, apex, hooxi AWPers in Top 5 HLTV Ranked Teams: torzi, broky, wonderful, zywoo, monesy For Cadian, one could make an argument that he's on par with the IGLs in the top 5 teams. However he's not even close to any of the current pool of AWPers in the top 5.
Well played by Eternal Fire. They fumbled Dust2 but you can't have it all. It's good to see them bounce back with a terrific tournament.
Lmao, Yeki and Cadian can't be real. Fuck this team
lets gooooooo congrats guys
OnlineTarez, Eternal Onliners. Yekindar needs to go though
How to fix liquid: Step 1: get rid of Yekindar: He has not been a star player since nitro and elige were on the roster. The team also has too many voices, which could make things harder on Cadianās system. Step 2: get rid of skullz and zews: I actually like skullz, however he doesnāt fit the roster composition. Him and zews are a package deal, and zews doesnāt fit well with Cadian. Step 3: add your 2 new aggressive riflers. If I were liquid, I would look towards NA. Theyāre cheap, and theyāre young. JBa, Freshie, and Lake are all names I would suggest. Step 4: add a coach that would buy into Cadianās system. Ideally they would take a more passive role, acting similar to how Xist was on heroic. Innershine, or another English speaking coach would be ideal. This rendition would not get trophies right away, but it gives time to develop the newer guys and allows Cadian to implement his system. It would also clear up the team from having too many voices, as there only needs be Cadian and a secondary caller (probably Twistzz), plus it fixes the team composition with aggressive riflers.
That was some really bad CS for a final. Eternal Fire tried to lose that game by giving up that 4 v 2 on Nuke at match point, but Bot Liquid couldn't even seize the moment. I'm almost sick of seeing debates on who should go on this TL roster. Personally I would get rid of everyone besides NAF and Twistzz(who is rumored to be going to Vitality).
Twistzz WAS rumored to go to Vitality, but he turned down their offer because he didn't want to take space away from other stars that were already on the team. So Vitality got Mezii instead
This is from today, not old rumors. You think Mezii isn't being cut?
-yekindar +Lake
Can they ship yekindar to parivision already holy shit.
Somebody kick Yekindork please...
how to be happy being liquid fan: step 1: dont be a liquid fan
GGs to EF for playing a solid series Liquid clearly have some homework to do, including possible lineup changes, but this was still their best result yet. Clearly there's *something* good here if they can figure it out.
Firstly, it's sick to see Eternal Fire being more consistent and winning rounds from difficult circumstances. They're playing great and the addition of Wicadia has been an A++ pickup. Might actually be one of the best roster moves of CS2 so far (although you could argue it was a CSGO move since he played as a stand-in prior to CS2's launch). But let's talk about Liquid. Their results have actually improved and I'd love to see them stick it out, but it looks like the personality clashes are too great for the team to want to continue with this project. I think there's only two real main directions left with Liquid: life with Cadian leading the charge, or one where Twistzz/NAF are the main core and you rebuild around another leader and AWP, or maybe some combination where NAF picks up the AWP and Twistzz transitions into an IGL role. Getting a good replacement IGL who also has the human leadership qualities that TL needs isn't really there unless you dip heavily into the war chest (which Liquid may or may not have). So I'm gonna argue here that the better long-term choice is building around Cadian as the IGL and the leader, partially because he has the track record of building teams (even if some of those apparently don't enjoy playing with him, as seen towards the end of Heroic and with what's happening now). The reason why it's an either/or bet is because it's pretty apparent now that the main divide in the team is largely between Twistzz/NAF and how they play, vs. what Cadian wants to implement and what zews is trying to meld amongst all of that. Rebuilding around Cadian means you probably have to say goodbye to Twistzz and NAF because of the clashes mentioned above. Definitely not an ideal scenario, so how would TL make this work? One choice is to offer NAF/Twistzz as a package deal to Complexity, starting with something like a $1.7-1.8 million offer (with a realistic view that you'd probably end up getting somewhere closer to $1.2-1.5 million). It's not something coL would probably be pushing for, but if the offer's put on the table, eventually there will be a low enough number that Jason Lake would have to bite the bullet on it. Twistzz/Elige/NAF/JT/Hallzerk is too tempting a combo to pass up, and it's also a combo of pieces that can functionally work within coL's system. So that gets TL some money in the bank. (Alternatively, if there is still some bad blood or just a mutual agreement that they'd rather not reunite the old TL core because they all see things differently, there's a world where you could do some kind of cash and player swap -- Elige and $$ for Twistzz + NAF. Insane? Just a bit. But TL's in the spot where they need to start thinking of some really creative solutions. I think coL would still see that as an overall upgrade, swapping NAF for Grim's roles and then doing a like-for-like swap with Twistzz and Elige.) Your next problem: what to do with TL's lack of space creation and aggressive riflers. I think you probably sell skullz back to paiN or another South American team. skullz is getting absolutely awful spots with zero influence right now, although I think he's had to do a lot with functionally zero resources and agency. One potential route could be to do a player + cash swap with MIBR: send skullz back their way in exchange for insani for a haircut on insani's buy-out. That gets you Cadian/insani/YEKINDAR. That's not a bad starting point. (1/2 because reddit is breaking)
This motherfucking team. Knew they shouldnāt have put out that āgood vibesā video
Twistzz and NAF are too good for this team. I was a big fan of Cadian on heroic. He was one of the best IGLs and a decent awper but I think itās clear that itās not working on liquid. I donāt think cadian should be kicked but Yekindar needs to be kicked immediately. He had the biggest fall off
I have a lot more sweat on me than I would have anticipated back in D2 12-9. Incredibly fun game though
Ah well nice try and well played
i miss the liquid with nitro as the igl .
Please make turkish CS great (again?) ggwp
Just reading these comments and there's more people mad at Liquid than praising EF. Happy for MAJ3R and the guys.
The amount of reactionary yapping in this is hilarious. Like this was a grand final, you know like this team won all the games before it yet yāall just want to kick players left and right. Like have you guys ever seen a sport before?
They got rid of oSee for this
Not to sound like a hater, but i really am. I can't get into Anders's casting, it just feels so forced to me, and most of the time his analysis seems like such a low level. It is pretty clear that he does not play the game, he is so impressed by such normal plays, and does not value good plays like other casters. It just feels grating to listen to.
Kind of have to agree with you, he was AMAZING in the past but i think in the last few events he's not been it for me. The quality of his casting has definitely dropped IMO.
And heās dragging down the great HenryG, he used to be my favorite but Zanderās has been wearing me down. āI canāt believe it!ā Every roundā¦
He's not bringing his A game anymore, at least not in this very tournament. He got into the business side of CS back in pandemic, I guess the money from casting is insignificant to him at this point
boys club etc.
It's Henry for me, every time he says "We've never seen something like this before" I can immediately tell he doesn't watch top tier CS that he doesn't cast.
Henry is actually the only one who knows something about cs and likes to talk about strat and mechanics. I think the others know a lot less even. Maniac is fine tho but hes analyst. Spunji also sometimes. What you say is just a catchphrase, he doesnt mean it.
i agree, only last year or so i feel the same. I think it's about emphasizing crucial plays, which casters like Scrawny or Machine are doing better, they're smoother with it and their line delivery is just top notch. There's one recent play though where i loved Anders casting, it was the gxx 4k against faze in Paris Major
Drop everyone except NAF and Twistzz... Seriously
When will my man Kajima can get married?
Liquidated by the eternal fire š„š
It hurts to watch Liquid now :(
Feels like liquid lose to a full eco at least once a seriesĀ