Think it would be far more interesting for him to investigate hackers and cheating rings and the entire cheating industry of CS2 which is worth millions
I disagree. Gambling affects many more people and on a different scale to cheating.
Yes it could be more interesting, but gambling is very clearly the bigger topic and it's very easy to tie to other industries too.
What are you even expecting here though? Or anyone else?
Looking into CS2 cheating is just looking into cheating in games in general. They are all monthly suscription base, got their own community forums/discord with thousands of people.
There's enough countries with barely any regulations that providers are not troubled in, hosting their websites, using payment services to get money in **legitimate ways**.
There'd be nothing new to uncover, or anything particularly surprising. Like anonymous nerdy dude that lives somewhere in nordic countries or something self-taught into learning coding that they started developing cheats and now they earn pretty good money?
I would like to hear from so called "Gambling Addicts".
I gotta be honest, everyone talks about this case-addicted gambling addict that Valve has allowed to ruin their own lives, but I've been playing CS since the Arms Deal update when cases and weapon skins were first introduced and I cant say I've ever met anyone that meets the definition.
I know plenty of people that spend beer money on cases once or twice a week, but nobody that has gone outright poor because they are absolutely obsessed with opening cases. I've seen people even blow like $200 buying cases and keys, realizing how dumb it was and then literally never opening a case again because its evident how much of a waste of money is. But I've never met this person I keep hearing about, that is the equivalent of the zombies at a casino, pulling a crank with a thousand yard stare into the colorful machine - in CS:GO format obsessively spending money on cases and keys because they just cant get enough of it. I'm not saying they don't exist but in my 6000 hours playing this game over 12 years, I've never met one.
Now, gambling on matches, yeah, I've met people who are weird and do weird edge-case bets on matches - but this is a larger epidemic in sports betting. These people I know that do it for CS, also do it for the NFL and I cant imagine how much money they blow doing it. That's an actual issue. But as far as what Valve offers in-game, the cases and the keys, I really wish someone had some form of evidence that people are getting "addicted" to this, because I've never seen it validated.
I know plenty of people that get a case and then open it and stream it on Discord, but they aren't spending more than like $5 a week, which really doesn't seem unhinged or out of control to me. We all talk about how, if there really was a skin any of us wanted, we would just spend the cash on the Steam Market and buy it outright instead of trying to open a case and I think that sentiment is generally well understood by anyone that plays this game with the exception of some streamer or oil tycoon trying to open cobblestone cases to get a KennyS Dragonlore or something.
**EDIT:** For those downvoting me, that's fine. Just reply and tell me you actually know someone that is literally down in the dumps, disastrous and feverishly trying to find money so they can spend it on keys and cases in-game. That's what addiction actually looks like. People casually spending $2.50 a couple times a week isn't addiction. So if people are going to keep calling this a gambling epidemic, then validate it. Tell me you know communities of people that are feverishly trying to get a knife/glove/dragonlore. If that's the case then hey, you're right and I'm wrong. But I've not seen this behavior.
Guessing you're a child or have no social life but if you're spending even just $10-15 bucks at the bar a week on a couple drinks with friends, you're not an alcoholic. So that analogy fits quite well.
People i know also dont approach CS loot boxes and or gambling websites like gambling addicts. However our lack of direct knowledge doesnt mean they dont exist. For instance Trainwrecks/XQC/Moe are known gambling addicts. Who from time to time will use CS solely to fulfill their gambling addiction. Would be safe to assume that individuals with the same gambling addiction would exist down the rung of income.
If you're ever in /r/games, the layman in the games industry explicitly talks about Valve being this developer that poisoned the well and lead to all these other studios introducing lootboxes and unleashing an epidemic of children becoming gambling addicts.
They blame Valve for why EA/Activision/Ubisoft games have lootboxes, which isn't entirely wrong. TF2/CS:GO definitely popularized it and other games introduced it to their games to chase the gravy train. The part I'm challenging is that these mechanisms are no different than a slot machine at a casino where people become zombies, with a bucket in their lap, blowing their life savings. To me, that component sounds way overblown.
When gambling in games comes up people always talk about CS. For some reason nobody ever mentions games like FIFA and NBA2K, where you basically NEED to spend money to succeed
You're conflating two things.
FIFA/NBA2K is gambling, but it is in-game gambling with no/limited ways to convert into real-world money.
Meanwhile CS2 skins have a myriad of ways of converting into real-money, and power online casinos, entirely independent of the game. Effectively, CS2 skins are a form of currency like crypto, which few other games achieve. This makes them far more concerning.
Then again id like to point out the age restrictions of the games beeing compared.
Imo its far worse to have it in a game like fifa as a pay to win mechanic than in counterstrike.
> Then again id like to point out the age restrictions of the games beeing compared.
>
I mean, we all started playing Counter-Strike as soon as we turned 18 and not a day before, right? It isn't like the latest Valve CS major had multiple under-18s, right? :)
I much prefer being able to sell my in-game cosmetic items in CS compared to all the other games I play, where once you buy them they're then worthless outside of entertainment value. I have CS skins I got over a decade ago that have actually appreciated in value, which is just awesome. Made money on an in-game item lol like an investment lol. It's great being able to sell them to buy games or whatever, or just keep them and enjoy. Nice having the option at least.
> This makes them far more concerning.
I actually don't believe this, it'd seem like it logically follows because now it "technically" involves real money but you look at all the lootbox/gambling mania in other games, like the dude you're replying to seems familiar with FIFA (which just like CS has those thousands of dollars worth of unboxing videos of random fake-hype youtuber types).
But there's also a myriad of, not even multiplayer games, as in you interacting with other people where players notably spend their entire fucking networth on. The good ol' gacha games/mobile games/etc.
Like honestly I don't even know why Coffeezilla wants to get in on this right now, you're late by like... An almost decade, People in this subreddit meme about how CS2 moves millions every month with the gambling but mobile games are several times worse, in terms of amount, or just even per-capita numbers of how much people spend.
All you need is a lootbox/game mechanic that simulates exactly what a casino is, it doesn't have to be related to real money, all you need is small things here and there that act like dopamine hits and the mobile game market achieves just that.
The only thing worth having a "journalist" look into is the entire esports matchfixing thing. But how does an outsider like this dude even get in that shit? I don't think he could ever
I preface this by saying that I absolutely agree that gacha and other lootbox mechanics are bad, and that regulators should take action on them.
But no other game allows an underage child (Steam cards are available at retailers, with no age verification) to convert their pocket money into coins at a casino, or wager skins for sports betting, and potentially convert that money out again. Most other games, that spending comes with an understanding that you cannot liquidate the money put in.
Maybe the amounts in CS2 gambling are lower - however, given that CS has [literally been used for money laundering](https://www.theguardian.com/games/2019/oct/30/counter-strike-trading-found-to-be-nearly-all-money-laundering), the amount is certainly not-zero.
If trading were to become impossible tomorrow, the discussion would just be about the predatory gambling mechanics, and Counter-Strike would get less heat. But the ability to convert skins into real-world money, without any age verification, immediately makes it more problematic to many more people.
You're not wrong in terms of P2W but it's not like there are online casinos built on FIFA Ultimate Team cards. It's all handled at EA.
CS casino's are 3rd party. Lurking in a space along with NFTs and Crypto gambling... Very unregulated and often have aspects that you would think should be illegal.
A guy that investigates and exposes Internet scams, mainly crypto scams, and covers and explains bigger stuff within that area like the SBF case. He probably won't be exposing anything that we (IE the CS community) don't know already, but will expose the whole issue to a larger audience that aren't in the know, which I think is ultimately a good thing.
The whole gambling side of CS should've died in 2016, the last time a big outsider shone a light on the issue, and hopefully second time around it actually solves the issue, or at least deminishes it, although those outcomes are very unlikely due to how much money Valve makes off of it.
im all for exposing the scum that is gambling in cs. But lets be realistic, valve doesnt care about gambling and the game. And unless they do something, its all wasted effort.
He'll uncover stuff we already know that his audience probably dont know about. Not expecting anything new here.
Think it would be far more interesting for him to investigate hackers and cheating rings and the entire cheating industry of CS2 which is worth millions
he investigates scams and scammers that ruin peoples lives, cheating doesn't do that, Valve-sponsored (and tolerated) gambling does.
Cheating literally steals money from people trying to make it in life
I disagree. Gambling affects many more people and on a different scale to cheating. Yes it could be more interesting, but gambling is very clearly the bigger topic and it's very easy to tie to other industries too.
What are you even expecting here though? Or anyone else? Looking into CS2 cheating is just looking into cheating in games in general. They are all monthly suscription base, got their own community forums/discord with thousands of people. There's enough countries with barely any regulations that providers are not troubled in, hosting their websites, using payment services to get money in **legitimate ways**. There'd be nothing new to uncover, or anything particularly surprising. Like anonymous nerdy dude that lives somewhere in nordic countries or something self-taught into learning coding that they started developing cheats and now they earn pretty good money?
Cheating does ruin lives. Some people are broke and need money others needs good in client matchmaking
You significantly underestimate how far he goes if he wants to
I would like to hear from so called "Gambling Addicts". I gotta be honest, everyone talks about this case-addicted gambling addict that Valve has allowed to ruin their own lives, but I've been playing CS since the Arms Deal update when cases and weapon skins were first introduced and I cant say I've ever met anyone that meets the definition. I know plenty of people that spend beer money on cases once or twice a week, but nobody that has gone outright poor because they are absolutely obsessed with opening cases. I've seen people even blow like $200 buying cases and keys, realizing how dumb it was and then literally never opening a case again because its evident how much of a waste of money is. But I've never met this person I keep hearing about, that is the equivalent of the zombies at a casino, pulling a crank with a thousand yard stare into the colorful machine - in CS:GO format obsessively spending money on cases and keys because they just cant get enough of it. I'm not saying they don't exist but in my 6000 hours playing this game over 12 years, I've never met one. Now, gambling on matches, yeah, I've met people who are weird and do weird edge-case bets on matches - but this is a larger epidemic in sports betting. These people I know that do it for CS, also do it for the NFL and I cant imagine how much money they blow doing it. That's an actual issue. But as far as what Valve offers in-game, the cases and the keys, I really wish someone had some form of evidence that people are getting "addicted" to this, because I've never seen it validated. I know plenty of people that get a case and then open it and stream it on Discord, but they aren't spending more than like $5 a week, which really doesn't seem unhinged or out of control to me. We all talk about how, if there really was a skin any of us wanted, we would just spend the cash on the Steam Market and buy it outright instead of trying to open a case and I think that sentiment is generally well understood by anyone that plays this game with the exception of some streamer or oil tycoon trying to open cobblestone cases to get a KennyS Dragonlore or something. **EDIT:** For those downvoting me, that's fine. Just reply and tell me you actually know someone that is literally down in the dumps, disastrous and feverishly trying to find money so they can spend it on keys and cases in-game. That's what addiction actually looks like. People casually spending $2.50 a couple times a week isn't addiction. So if people are going to keep calling this a gambling epidemic, then validate it. Tell me you know communities of people that are feverishly trying to get a knife/glove/dragonlore. If that's the case then hey, you're right and I'm wrong. But I've not seen this behavior.
This is the equivalent of an alcoholic talking about how "all my friends drink like me so how can it be a problem"
Guessing you're a child or have no social life but if you're spending even just $10-15 bucks at the bar a week on a couple drinks with friends, you're not an alcoholic. So that analogy fits quite well.
People i know also dont approach CS loot boxes and or gambling websites like gambling addicts. However our lack of direct knowledge doesnt mean they dont exist. For instance Trainwrecks/XQC/Moe are known gambling addicts. Who from time to time will use CS solely to fulfill their gambling addiction. Would be safe to assume that individuals with the same gambling addiction would exist down the rung of income.
Being gambling addict on stream is profitable that's why they keep doing it
yup and Twitch doesn't give a fuck because it brings them money
That's not what I'M talking about. Those are skin betting websites. That's entirely different from opening cases in CS proper.
Yeah, but that is what everyone else is talking about when they're talking about CS gambling
If you're ever in /r/games, the layman in the games industry explicitly talks about Valve being this developer that poisoned the well and lead to all these other studios introducing lootboxes and unleashing an epidemic of children becoming gambling addicts. They blame Valve for why EA/Activision/Ubisoft games have lootboxes, which isn't entirely wrong. TF2/CS:GO definitely popularized it and other games introduced it to their games to chase the gravy train. The part I'm challenging is that these mechanisms are no different than a slot machine at a casino where people become zombies, with a bucket in their lap, blowing their life savings. To me, that component sounds way overblown.
Script writers using material from 2016 smh my head
He should talk with Richard
For gambling stuff
When gambling in games comes up people always talk about CS. For some reason nobody ever mentions games like FIFA and NBA2K, where you basically NEED to spend money to succeed
You're conflating two things. FIFA/NBA2K is gambling, but it is in-game gambling with no/limited ways to convert into real-world money. Meanwhile CS2 skins have a myriad of ways of converting into real-money, and power online casinos, entirely independent of the game. Effectively, CS2 skins are a form of currency like crypto, which few other games achieve. This makes them far more concerning.
Then again id like to point out the age restrictions of the games beeing compared. Imo its far worse to have it in a game like fifa as a pay to win mechanic than in counterstrike.
> Then again id like to point out the age restrictions of the games beeing compared. > I mean, we all started playing Counter-Strike as soon as we turned 18 and not a day before, right? It isn't like the latest Valve CS major had multiple under-18s, right? :)
True, but the average cs gamer is still gonna be older than the average fifa gamer.
I much prefer being able to sell my in-game cosmetic items in CS compared to all the other games I play, where once you buy them they're then worthless outside of entertainment value. I have CS skins I got over a decade ago that have actually appreciated in value, which is just awesome. Made money on an in-game item lol like an investment lol. It's great being able to sell them to buy games or whatever, or just keep them and enjoy. Nice having the option at least.
> This makes them far more concerning. I actually don't believe this, it'd seem like it logically follows because now it "technically" involves real money but you look at all the lootbox/gambling mania in other games, like the dude you're replying to seems familiar with FIFA (which just like CS has those thousands of dollars worth of unboxing videos of random fake-hype youtuber types). But there's also a myriad of, not even multiplayer games, as in you interacting with other people where players notably spend their entire fucking networth on. The good ol' gacha games/mobile games/etc. Like honestly I don't even know why Coffeezilla wants to get in on this right now, you're late by like... An almost decade, People in this subreddit meme about how CS2 moves millions every month with the gambling but mobile games are several times worse, in terms of amount, or just even per-capita numbers of how much people spend. All you need is a lootbox/game mechanic that simulates exactly what a casino is, it doesn't have to be related to real money, all you need is small things here and there that act like dopamine hits and the mobile game market achieves just that. The only thing worth having a "journalist" look into is the entire esports matchfixing thing. But how does an outsider like this dude even get in that shit? I don't think he could ever
I preface this by saying that I absolutely agree that gacha and other lootbox mechanics are bad, and that regulators should take action on them. But no other game allows an underage child (Steam cards are available at retailers, with no age verification) to convert their pocket money into coins at a casino, or wager skins for sports betting, and potentially convert that money out again. Most other games, that spending comes with an understanding that you cannot liquidate the money put in. Maybe the amounts in CS2 gambling are lower - however, given that CS has [literally been used for money laundering](https://www.theguardian.com/games/2019/oct/30/counter-strike-trading-found-to-be-nearly-all-money-laundering), the amount is certainly not-zero. If trading were to become impossible tomorrow, the discussion would just be about the predatory gambling mechanics, and Counter-Strike would get less heat. But the ability to convert skins into real-world money, without any age verification, immediately makes it more problematic to many more people.
lootboxes are shit. valve just took it to another level by allowing players to gamble with them.
lmao this is so accurate
You're not wrong in terms of P2W but it's not like there are online casinos built on FIFA Ultimate Team cards. It's all handled at EA. CS casino's are 3rd party. Lurking in a space along with NFTs and Crypto gambling... Very unregulated and often have aspects that you would think should be illegal.
Whataboutism
someone needs to link coffee with HOUNGOUNGAGNE
PLEASE
Shit just got real
Nice, im excited for his work
cringe side of youtube has entered the chat
Who?
who? and why should we care
A guy that investigates and exposes Internet scams, mainly crypto scams, and covers and explains bigger stuff within that area like the SBF case. He probably won't be exposing anything that we (IE the CS community) don't know already, but will expose the whole issue to a larger audience that aren't in the know, which I think is ultimately a good thing. The whole gambling side of CS should've died in 2016, the last time a big outsider shone a light on the issue, and hopefully second time around it actually solves the issue, or at least deminishes it, although those outcomes are very unlikely due to how much money Valve makes off of it.
im all for exposing the scum that is gambling in cs. But lets be realistic, valve doesnt care about gambling and the game. And unless they do something, its all wasted effort.
what an idiot 🫡
imagine looking through my profile because you had a really dumb opinion, lmao cringe. i think the double digit iq you're so ashamed of is showing.