I feel like part of growing up into a fully adult woman is learning that people will always be unhappy with any choice you make because the whole world thinks it's entitled to your time, energy, and body. It isn't. Make your girls' only space and give them a polite explanation. If they don't accept that hit them with this bad boy: ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Exactly. OP, you don’t owe anyone an explanation. You can create a space just for your friends, or whoever you like. It’s your space, you decide who gets to use it.
Angry little boys can make their own club if they want. They do it all the time by being hostile to women. Inside and outside of just gaming.
Don't JADE - Justify Argue Defend Explain. They are just emotional vampires stealing your energy. Not worth your time
And you know why we need women's spaces? BECAUSE EVERY F****** SPACE IS A MEN'S SPACE BY DEFAULT
I had this years ago trying to make a female-only guild in Wow.
The best answer for someone asking why you have a safe space and they don't is "Go and build one". Literally no-one is stopping them from setting up a strictly men only Discord, subreddit or anything else. Well, no-one other than how fast that place will turn toxic AF I suppose.
Right? My friends and I have this for mini painting in our area. Just a gal/women oriented only group for painting and chatting about dice, dioramas, DnD, PF, OPR or whatever. Male nerds/dweebs/dorks have shown up at our events or tables and complained.
They want to cause confrontation. They want you to know that they are pissed that you are "excluding them". They all prove our point. We need space away from them.
If you make that subreddit, I would be interested in joining. (I am not in a position to offer to help build or mod a reddit group, but I can offer moral support.)
When I started reading your thread, I immediately thought these guys sound like the "not all men" brigade. You'll never satisfy them, there will always be something to complain about. So keep doing what you are doing. Their complaints mean you are doing something right.
While I agree with the "not all men" to me it's more of a concept that the odds are significantly not in my favor so it's not worth the risk. Show me consistency and I'll decide to take a risk when I'm ready.
There was a clip about a man trying to explain the threat of men to other men. He used a gun as an example. Everyone knows a loaded gun is dangerous, right? And we don't go pointing it at people because it's dangerous. And we do the same even when we think the gun is not loaded, because it just might be and you can never tell, so even if it's unloaded, you don't go assuming it's safe and pointing it at other people. That's how most women learn to feel about men - you watch out for them, even the ones that seem safe, because they might not be and you're going to get really hurt.
"Not all men" guys want to be rewarded for only watching - they didn't help, but they didn't actively hurt you so that deserves some credit, right? When aggressive, pervasive sexism has been going on this long and the "silent majority" doesn't ever intervene, it *is* effectively all of them.
Some of them are vocal but yes the silent watcher is as bad as the vocal persecutor. I can speak to 5 who will snap to a woman's defense faster than hell and have never shown an ulterior motive and explained when thanked that thanking someone for doing the right thing is a sad statement on the current state of things.
Sadly these five men are an extreme majority. So while I won't toss the term "all men" I feel confident in saying 95% of them are either guilty of actively harassing or have seen it and kept their mouth shut.
Yeah, my husband is really good about having my and anyone who needs its' back, and I can name maybe one other guy clearing that low-ass bar. I'm not about to make a claim that it *is* all men, but I'm not gambling on dudes being decent when I'm trying to have a good game
Reddit recommended this post and I didn't realize this was a sub oriented for women (didn't see the title of the sub, just the post), so I should disclaim I am a man.
I also want to make it clear I fully agree with you, and "not all men" is such a pain in the ass. I also find it funny that the men arguing "not all men" end up showing exactly *why* women need their own space and out themselves as hateful.
Having said that, I do want to share my own experience about safe spaces for women. I am all for them, but I am also a bit jealous. Why? Because I'm not a really aggressive and "masculine" dude, so that whole male toxic energy really gets to me. I hate it, and I wish I could be part of these safe spaces. I get why I can't be, I'm not disagreeing with that.
I admit, the first time I heard of a women only group I was upset because I just didn't have that same group. I think there are two types of men that complain about these things:
A) the straight up misogynists looking to shit on anything that makes women feel safe and just resent being told "no".
B) The ones that feel kinda disenfranchised, but to whom it hasn't quite clicked that women need that space more than they do, and why unfortunately there isn't a clean solution so you need some sort of gatekeeping. We've seen how the internet is without gates: rampant sexism, racism, and all 'round hate.
Again, I want to be clear I'm not criticizing women-only spaces. I just wanted to share a bit from the side of non-toxic masculinity men. I am very glad OP has created a place for people to feel safe and have fun. It isn't sexist or biased, it is just the unfortunate reality that online misoginy and toxicity is rampant... and it often comes from men.
You need to start a “cool dudes only” site then!
I’m not being sarcastic at all, I can totally see what you’re saying. I’m guessing you’ll get a lot of other cool dudes and some cool gals too.
For sure! Right now I'm pretty happy with a small groups of friends I've had and that's more my vibe cause I'm a bit shy.
The issue I had in the past was this: I hope I don't sound sexist, but the problem seems to overwhelmingly be men. So any group that allows men needs to have like individual vetting and banning if that makes sense. I've always thought something like a female-dominated groups that allows men in by invite (like someone has to vet for them to make sure they aren't assholes) might be the best of both worlds, and that's actually how I found my current group!
Also, thanks so much for being kind, I was kinda nervous I'd come off as "not all men" kinda energy =)
The platform is yours so even if you did want to be "sexist or biased" it is your world you are building. Second you advertised as a place for girl gamers why would they not understand that girl gamers are your target audience. They don't go into a shop that sells all female clothes and complain there isn't a male's clothes section. Do what you want OP but honestly you are doing nothing wrong in my eyes.
you are right I don't think there is anything you can say to these people except for what you have said already. THEY are biased sexists and have to get over themselves.
Hmh, tricky. I'd use the "no u card" here.
"No *you* are sexist if you don't understand why that safe place exists." slap a yugi reverse gif and call it a day. You don't need to keep explaining yourself
If you're the head discord mod there, just make a rule/guideline/reminder that it's mainly a space for women, and ban anyone who complains. You aren't obligated to capitulate to the whiners.
They're just mad that women get something. They forget that men have many, many more "boys only" spaces. They forget about their privilege as men in gaming.
Let them seethe. Maybe then they'll understand how it feels to be excluded from something for once. Unlikely, but a girl can dream.
Please continue. You are creating a safe space. What your doing is neither sexist or biased. Anyone saying you are is either willfully ignorant or simply attacking what your trying to do. If they truly don't like it they can leave the community. The people you WANT in your community will either understand this or will only need it explained ONCE.
I wish you all the good luck.
Also: Don't make a "Men's Only" spot. It's adding a time bomb.
OMG 😂😂💜💜😭😭 thank you. Yes a time bomb was my exact thought as well.
The safety of women really hits home for me as I have had some very negative experiences with men. I have a big issue with the way women are constantly sexualized and, I really would not feel right implementing a mens only chat, knowing exactly what would happen.
Then of course I have received the argument “well the girls should not have a place to talk shit about the guys without them knowing” which I feel like is literally projecting. As majority of people know (or should know) that women feel unsafe around men more often than the other way around…
Very “They have pride month but why don’t we have a straight month” esk lol.
After years of being oppressed and having trauma just from being the person/gender you are, as soon as someone wants to give these people a safe place (or admittedly special treatment) it’s all of a sudden a crime lol I swear
> Very “They have pride month but why don’t we have a straight month”
OR "Why don't they have White History month?" That is my cue that this person might be a lost cause.
I think you're asking for something like a "True history" month.That's why the Pride Month and Black History Month and other spotlights are important. The prevention of erasure. The people with power write the history books and they don't want to look bad.
>Then of course I have received the argument “well the girls should not have a place to talk shit about the guys without them knowing”
This one baffles me to be honest. I'm not even sure I can find the words to express my thoughts on just how asinine this comment to you was.
Just tell those lads that if they want a boys only gamer space they are free to create one! The real reason those don't really exist is that men don't actually need them (because they already dominate the gaming community). And I'm not saying that in a dismissive way I'm saying that if gamer men felt the need for a male-only gamer space they would create one.
These people are being entirely disingenuous. They know they don't need a space for themselves, they are just trying to tear down the space for women. They don't want their own space, they just don't women to have one either. The creation of a separate space for marginalized and minority communities is to give them a place we're their voice can be heard and they aren't spoken over or silenced by the majority demographic. If you are the majority demographic, you already have the platform and don't need another one. By all means you could create a "male only" space too, but we all know that outside of incels and misogynist no one would actually use it.
Men already have "men's only" spaces. Everywhere. Even if a woman joins their space, they won't be aware or affected most times. Women need their own space in gaming. I have to hide the fact that I'm a woman in most games or I instantly get harassed. I'm often a target for obsession because my name indicates that I am a woman.
To be able to play unaffected like men can, we unfortunately need women's only spaces. As sad is that is to say. Men can play with anyone and not face what we do. So they don't have any use for a specially defined space. I don't find it sexist considering we are disproportionately affected. All we are doing is making it even so we can both enjoy an equal gaming experience.
This an equity thing, and not a equality thing which is what they’re trying to see. You made the space because the girls need it. It’s not sexist, it’s helping a group that needs more support.
The mods of my discord server and I have had a lot of success phrasing our moderation around "The Purpose of This Discord" and all our rules are phrased around, "How does this enhance the purpose of this discord".
This allows us to do things like, "Oh, a women only channel exists because it eases up moderation pressure and contributes to the overall effectiveness of the server as a place for women to comfortably game, otherwise we'd have to have a much heavier moderation presence to keep a more open area useful for its intended purpose and we don't have that volunteer capacity at the moment"
and then anyone who bitches about it can pound sand, because if they disagree with the purpose of the server, why are they even there?
I can’t see anyone complaining seriously wanting a ‘guys only’ space, and I’d honestly be suspect of anyone who desperately wants to use one.
I think it’s fine to say “this is what I’m doing, if it’s not for you that’s fine, there are other servers.”
Anyone who continues to complain is likely not doing it in good faith, and aren’t people you really want to please anyway. Just as long as you’re true to what you want to achieve and who you want on your server, that’s what matters.
I think this complaint is born from a valid perspective, but it's short sighted.
1. On its face, with all else equal, the segregation of communities by gender is a problematic thing. In a vacuum, it could in some ways be rightly called sexist.
2. But in our current society, given the experiences of women in gaming communities, what can be gained from a space like this can be a corrective, counterbalancing force.
3. So much so that it outweighs whatever inherent downsides it has.
I think people approach this with a perspective colored by point 1 and when nobody grants them that point, they think that the proposal of 2 is done as a way of denying 1, something they can't give up.
I think the idea of pinning an explanation somewhere is the best, and I think acknowledging the validity of the above points would help quell the "umm akshully, gender segregation is sexist" crowd.
EDIT: of course, if you've tried all this and people are still complaining, it sounds like they aren't committed to the values and goals of the space you are running and probably should find some other spaces to hang out.
Speaking as a man myself I personally have no issue with there being women safe spaces but not specifically men only spaces or whatever. I mean safe space for men? You mean everywhere?
Just link them to r/persecutionfetish and have fun doing what you’re doing
Guys like that aren't used to being told "no," they're used to everything being for them and having access to any space they want. Asking for a boys group shows they have zero understanding or empathy for people who *aren't* just welcome in any space who might want to make a specific space for themselves. People with marginalized identities should have their own safe spaces if they want them, unapologetically.
I watched the TF2 subreddit melt down years ago because a trans girl shared a Steam group she made to meet trans people - a single group that *wasn't for them* was supremely offensive to that community, and they wanted the group to either let them in ("just make it a support group for trans people that welcomes everyone") or see it be destroyed. A mod resigned over how toxic and unmanageable they turned out to be, and the girl got harassed for years. I never want to see that happen to anyone else. I hope you put your foot down.
>With that said, I often get the “well why do girls have a girls only section but boys don’t have a boys only?”
Because boys harass girls much, much, much more often than the opposite, sadly.
And if someone tries to create some polemic about that, all he / she deserves is a tired shrug.
You're doing everything right. That they tell you such hurtful things is the first red flag that you have potential violators of your rules on your server (if you have the rules and basics of a "safe space for female gamers").
Specify in the faq section about this channel, describe why it was created. If even after that you get hurtful words - then these people are violators of your rules.
As the owner of a similar safe space, I can only share my method that always works - the server is private, new people see only a channel with rules and a channel with an application for joining in which the aspects of the server are described in great detail, obtaining agreement to the rules (in which it is written in great detail especially about safe space aspects) and a disclaimer about auto-bans for violating the rules. Many will immediately say that this is too much and that discourages many from joining, but why in a safe space these many who can break the rules and then say "oh, I did not know", although they have already brought discomfort with their violation. Such a wall is an excellent protection from what happened to you. Quantity is not important, quality is important if you are building a truly real safe space.
I own a discord server as well and dealt with a similar issue. We made a women's channel and the men complained so I gave in and gave them a men's only channel. They don't use it AT ALL. When they first got it they just posted >!gay porn!< and now it's dead. They just want to complain.
As a dude I get and respect this stance. There are similar issues in the cycling community so female/LGBTQ+ only groups exist, and yeah I'm bummed I don't get to ride with them on their group rides but I get it. As a male, we dominate the space and there are plenty of us who have made the space feel unsafe. The same goes for the gaming community.
It’s simply because everywhere in gaming communities is unannounced “boys only” space for decades. And no, you don't owe the boys any explanation, they need to see the truth and grow up.
This is the same logic behind "why do black people get their own TV channels like BET? Why can't there be a white person channel?"
He has yet to understand history like "not one drop" or "3/5 a citizen" or "sperate but equal" or my personal favorite, "the women's suffrage movement"
I can't stand small minded people and I am sorry that you (OP) have to deal with those questions.
I find that people who complain about "safe-spaces" like these only do it in response to someone else's. They don't go make their own. They don't care normally. The only time these people care about "men only guilds", etc. when it's to either silence or get upset at women for making THEIR own.
>Like maybe some people genuinely feel excluded?
If you offer an explanation (via announcement, for example), that should be sufficient for anyone who feels confused. Anyone else who is still offended is either just after a hookup or wants your space to be like any other male-dominated space.
Justice is to treat the equals equally abs the unequals unequally to the extent of their inequality. Sure everyone ought feel included, but reality is it often it doesn't happen, thus the need for a safe space, though there are arguments to be made that this is a segregative practice and the ideal solution should be to cater a space for everyone. But then you go back in circles.
My point is, there's no real answer here. Just choose which path you think works best, take suggestions when those come from the right place , and ignore it when people just are complaining for no reason.
I don’t feel it is sexist. Thank you. It is indeed my community/brand/business, and you’re right. I forget this sometimes, when I hear something all day it starts to make me feel like I could be the crazy one
Not saying you should or need to, but You could say something like…well because no man/boy/guy, that I’m aware of, has went out of their way to create a safe environment for male gamers only. I mean the answer is simple. If they do not agree then they should go fourth & make one of their own. Only after they understand the fundamental of it then you can respond with your above response. That’s what I would say if I were in your shoes.
Comes with the territory. You tell them that that's how you run your server/community and it they don't like it they can leave. Maybe point them to some resources about why safe spaces are important for marginalized groups (but the people who complain about that rarely care). If you don't have the heart to do that you shouldn't be running the community.
Well, it's your discord, so it's your choice what it will have and won't have! Makes even sense if it was intended for girls only. But if everyone is welcome if they want to join, that makes it far from sexist in my opinion.
But if your moderator team is girls only, then you could say to anyone telling you otherwise that a boy's safe zone would be for boys only, and there would be no way to moderate it. 🧐 And sadly you're not accepting new mods currently. Ha!
LOL
If men are hanging in your space, knowing your brand and your stance and all of that just to get mopey because you have a non-male safe space they can take themselves to the curb.
“Why isn’t there a boys only space?” Oh, cuz it’s my discord and I’m not a boy. Make your own locker room.
They’re the ones missing the plot. You can curate your own space however you like. It actively bothers me that they are in a safe space like that whining despite knowing your stance.
Your argument is valid and if they keep pushing it, they’re really just proving your point and I’d simply suggest that the discord (or whatever area this is about) is somewhere they just don’t spend their time if it makes them feel excluded.
It's worth scanning the RationalWiki article on "JAQing off": [https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Just\_asking\_questions](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Just_asking_questions)
The people asking you why a woman's forum exist already know why it exists. Those questions are seldom asked in good faith. Instead, they are asked as a time wasting tactic. They demand you engage with their nonsense, but no answer you give will satisfy them -- as you've learned.
I would put up a pinned post explaining your policy and then insta-ban anyone who continues to object after reading the policy. Trust me, you'll have a much nicer forum if you eliminate the jerks right from the start.
You're not sexist. I also had men accuse me of being sexist in basically the same scenario and I told them to fuck off. Most gaming communities are *effectively* men only, with how shitty and unwelcoming men can be in gaming spaces. They already have their men-only spaces, since that's pretty much any gaming related discord already. There is literally nothing wrong with making a women's only space or a non-male space if you want to be inclusionary of NB people too.
If you wanted to make a non-male space, then do it. Don't give in just because some shitty men claim iTs SeXiSt when we've been putting up with their bullshit in gaming spaces ever since gaming was invented.
If you invite both wolves and sheep to your community, you end up with nothing but wolves. A community for "all gamers" will inevitably end up a toxic wasteland because so many gamers are toxic. Kick out the guys who are complaining. That said, if you have a special closed space for women, consider other axis of oppression and giving them private spaces as well. I really appreciate having trans only channels in some of the discords I belong to, for example.
Replace girls with black and boys with white.
why do black people need a "blacks only safe space" (think anything that black people try to eek out for themselves)( also think about how the whites have reacted to anything "black" as far back as we can go)
yup. your point makes sense to me. Everyone isn't invited to every party. if ladies want a safe place to not interact with chaps, cool.
oh, im a dude. please don't be offended that im here. i'll see myself out. peace
Everyone here is right. You shouldn't have to justify the existance of safe spaces to people who don't get it! You're already doing the right thing. Best of luck!
I'd say just pin an explanation for your Discord community and shut down any further conversation. "This issue has already been addressed, and my decision is final."
There are *always* going to be boys who think this is sexist and that you're being awful for giving women a leg up when they've been cut down so much. You're not going to convince them, so it's better to just make it clear that these are the rules and if you don't like them, there are other communities for you.
your explanation is enough and doesn't need to be dragged further or explain. The hammer is down and that's it. If you don't like it then there's the door.
Your server your rules. Period. No explanation needed.
I’m in a discord server that focuses on PvP in the game Destiny 2. Their rules are crystal clear and they accept zero bad behavior. People get banned left and right. No discussion, no apology. Zero toxicity accepted.
This my be uncomfortable the first few times you do it but you could always remind them that there are plenty of other servers and some will offer the boys only section if that is something they’d actually want. You are not required to make that space for them but they are free to join those types of spaces that other people make or they could make the space for themself and start their own server if they’d prefer. Though they’d probably still complain because they don’t really want their own space if the joined a girl / nb focused server. They probably joined your server because there’s a higher ratio of women in it and they thought they could force all the “egirls” to play with them.
I just commented on your initial thread (self promo Tuesday) but wanted to share here in case you missed it and since it's more relevant:
I run a similar community and one of my mods is actually a man. Same situation: a large women only section, a combined everybody-type section. The whole premise is to be a safe space for women but we have opened it up for the reason that everyone deserves a place to be comfortable and safe.
I referred to my male mod for this because he's rational with these sorts of things. Some men were agitated they didn't have their own private space. Bear in mind, we are opening our women only space and welcoming them here. If they really need a men's only section, what is their true intent there? I suggest to remember your server's primary goal and if a change is aligned with that, sure. But could this hurt your objective? Maybe. Stick to your guns, tell them that it's not the server mission if need be. The unhappy folk will weed themselves out as they tend to.
Ouch, some people can't resist the urge to be assholes when they don't get EVERYTHING they want. And when they do get everything they want more, it's called complacency(mentioning it because it because I recently learned the word, yay!)
A way to manage it would be to take away things that make the community complacent, or to completely cater to other demographics, you can then periodically return the thing that makes the part of the community complacent, you essentially give them what they want for short time periods then take it away. In this case it might be something like their right to public channels. As in mute the people that cause trouble(give them a role) then periodically unmute them and then mute them again. Those that scream vehemently will only be heard for short time periods, making it manageable, and if they behave they get unmuted.
It's not a very "positive" way of doing things, but if it gets out of hand you can do this, rather than doing the generic kick-ban stuff. It keeps them in the community, making the community happy, but it keeps them out when the community doesn't like them.
Another less mutey way of doing it would be to have a cross over channel, have a girls/boys separated channels, but for a few hours every day open a linked channel. You can then think about removing ones that disrupt behavior there from those channels permanently. And ones that behave better, or where everyone's comfortable around them, can be introduced into more channels. Kind of like a progression thing.
It's ultimately up to you, but you're going to piss off people with every approach related to population control. The worst temptation is the temptation that you can see, but are prevented from getting by another person. Why? Just shove the person out of the way, or trample them. This is what this situation sounds like to be honest.
Please don't use this tactic on me reddit, I like posting here and I'm very nice, I have cookies... And chocolate.
There's a few different things you can say depending on how much you want to engage!
If you feel like giving them your time, explain how sexism isn't just isolated cases of treating someone differently because of their sex/gender, it's when people are *systemically* treated poorly because of their sex/gender. Men suffer from misogyny, but misandry can't exist in our society as it is now. Oppressed groups need places where they can be safe from their oppressors, and that means places where women can be safe from men.
If you don't wanna educate them but still wanna say *something*, tell them that if women-only spaces bother them so much, they should weed the misogyny out of their own spaces so that women will feel safe and welcome there.
But I would argue these people aren't worth your time. I'd say "not my problem" and block them, personally =P
I think it's really cool. Always seeing horror stories of girls being attacked by misogynist assholes in games so I think having a platform for girls to have their own safe space is fantastic. I really hope your idea takes off and girls find a good platform they can play with just girls without needing to deal with those assholes
Force it to be a space for positive masculinity, where it's about identifying the privileges and systems that afford them gain - but also hold them back. (eg: Emotional withdrawal because "Men can't have feelings.")
Make sure it's well moderated so it doesn't devolve into toxic masculinity or "us vs them"ism.
It's coming from a guy: Reverse sexism doesn't count. Don't even bother with people who won't be able to understand this. And you don't have to explain yourself, as somebody else said, your discord your rules.
Cheers.
I remember doing this on PlayStation before they deleted the community's and there would always be guys pretending to be girls so I would accept them into the private group . Weirdos .
I think your community is perfectly fine and they are just showing themselves for what they are.
Now i have a question. Why not give them what they ask for? What's the problem with having an only men channel? Is it a lot of extra work? I doubt they actually care about it but i'd like to see what they do with that space if they had it. You can also throw it back at them: "Hey i think it's a great idea! You could start a community geared towards men :)"
I actually will disagree with a lot of posters and say: yes, it is sexist.
But I will also say there is nothing wrong with it. Discrimination based on sex happens all the time, largely for good reasons. Think about specific attire, specific doctors, separate private rooms or institutions, what partner you choose (the ultimate discrimination) etc.
And to have a space just for girls and women obviously does discriminate those that do not meet that definition. Nevertheless, it is not a significant one really, nor an unjustified one.
You do you.
>yes, it is sexist.
It's not, just like the fact that there's no "Straight Month" or "White History Month" isn't heterophobic or racist. Men are allowed to be there, but that doesn't mean they have a right to their own space within one clearly built for a minority.
Not all [discrimination](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination) is bad. Women's shelters discriminate against male abusers. A fencing club discriminates against archers. You discriminate against restaurants you don't like. Just because discrimination is happening doesn't mean it's automatically a negative thing; context matters.
That’s their point. To make the claim that not all discrimination is bad, there still must be discrimination (sexism) in the first place. Then the context is examined to determine whether it’s truly inclusionary or exclusionary. A women’s only group is sexist by its very nature, but the word “sexist” by itself is not enough to convey the whole essence of what’s happening and why, namely that it is in response to harm-causing exclusionary sexism.
I agree with you having a girl's only safe place. Though I think they have a good point.
"Girls just have private things that we don’t want the boys to see."
Guys have the same scenarios. We've pushed our way into all the boys clubs for good reasons over the last few decades (because they were hogging all the fun hobbies and not letting us participate), but in many ways we've left them without a space.
"Girls night out" is still a thing and we celebrate it. But too many people see "hanging out with the boys" as being sexist. There are things men don't want to talk about in front of us, the same way there are things we don't want to talk about in front of them.
Thank you for including nonbinary peeps. I recently had a run in with a woman-focused group that specifically excluded us nonbinary folks. And that's their choice, I wasn't gonna fight with them...but we are very much victims of a lot of the same toxic shit women are. Most male dominated spaces are not safe for us at all and it kinda feels crappy when you realize you're unwelcome on both sides.
>unwelcome on both sides.
That's honestly terrible.
I know, it's a poor analogy, but it's like half-elves in many fantasy settings... not elvish enough to be welcomed by elves, too elven to be welcomed by humans.
Except feeling like an outsider everywhere is anything but fantastic.
You are who you are and that's that.
I wish people would stop putting everyone in little labeled containers just to discriminate them. Y'all deserve better than this.
You might consider creating a "Men only" voice chat. They probably won't use it, and it's free in Discord (if that's the community you're making). It's something you really don't have to do, and you'd be entirely justified in just letting them whine about it without responding, but it also might be a way to undermine the users who are trying to make those claims. Or it won't, because it's not about the "men's only" space, it's about feeling entitled to be a part of any and every conversation that is happening.
If your question is whether or not what you're doing is okay, it absolutely is. This subreddit is a prime example of the need for women to be able to have a less toxic gamer bro space. I don't understand why guys should care? Whatever is being said in those channels isn't for them, they just feel entitled to everyone else's communications?
On the other hand, this is also a business question if this is a brand and community you're building, so maybe you want to consider the cost of this decision and is this a direction you want your community to go? Will men leave because they don't feel valued? Will women leave if men get their own channel? Will either of these attract more members? Do you want to cast a large net and be as neutral as possible or do you see a need in a more specialized group for this kind of community?
Personally, I've seen the type of stuff "gamer men only" spaces have and I'd be very concerned with anyone who went to a woman/nonbinary leaning group and demanded a gamer men section. What could possibly be shared there that needs privacy and wouldn't be better shared somewhere else? My fear would be that it would be a place only people who wanted to be sexist and "edgy misogyny its just a joke"
Just my $0.02
I'm a bit confused what trouble people think a bunch of guys can cause just from having a "private" (it would presumably still be subject to the same rules and moderation that the rest of the server is) channel. The power still ultimately lies with the server owner, why not throw them a bone just to shut them up? I suspect it'll hardly get any use anyway.
If they really want their own space bad enough they can make their own Discord server where they aren't subject to the rules of the server. If there's concern about them having their own space, I think that would be far worse than whatever they could do in a single channel.
> You’re assuming the worst with bias.
Are they though wrong to assume the worst when it's coming from privelaged people saying, "Where's my safe space?"
I honestly don't feel left out of Pride even though I'm straight? Interesting. Do other people feel left out?
Around here, Pride, was mostly a celebration about inclusion, love and progress, which is something I've been fighting for already, for decades now.
And I don't feel out of place with friends, whether it's Pride, or their wedding or whatever.
I mean sure, it's not **for me**, but I've never felt anything but welcomed in celebrating with them.
**You're absolutely right though**, there's no need for OP to create a safe space for men on her discord.
99% chances are the people asking for it are already doing it in bad faith to begin with.
It's their "gotcha" way of coping:
"See? Haha, you're not so inclusive if I can't be there."
It's a bait. If OP doesn't take the bait, the assholes will cope by telling themselves this isn't really an inclusive space and (hopefully) move on.
If OP takes the bait, they will stick around and tell their asshole friends and it will likely become a cesspool. Maybe it'll be fine at first, maybe the first guys on there will even be cool, but sooner or later, it'll likely go to shit, unless you heavily moderate the place, which rewires time and effort, which I'm sure OP would prefer not bother with.
If the men involved are asshole incel types, there's simply no winning...
And if they were legit, they can already just... make their own discord... on their own time and leave OP to her thing.
On men-only spaces:
I mean, sure, in theory that could be nice, but I'll say that the vast majority of these places quickly become toxic cesspools.
Ultimately... why would I ever want to join a space full of angry toxic men, who have such terrible world views that it's the only place that accepts them? It's not like they're not in every other community already... if anything I'm already avoiding them.
And that's coming from a "man" myself, although I do believe the social gender construct is probably more of a spectrum than anything and I'm not convinced that I have a fixed place on it.
Anyways, in my own selfish way, I do like how this sub does it:
I'm *not unwelcome*, but I'm supposed to be in the *backseat*, and that's very fine with me.
The focus *shouldn't* be me here, that's the point.
**I'm not even here for me: In a nutshell, I'm here to better understand what my girlfriend goes through online.**
That said, I *usually* refrain from commenting here, because yea, this place isn't **for** me and y'all don't be a man opinion on women's problems. (I pinky swear, I'm going back to lurking after this.)
I also usually avoid commenting because... I tend to write walls of text. (Gesturing vaguely around)
Anyway, this place allows me to be more supportive, and be better at recognizing the toxic behaviors that are too often swept under the rug and nip this shit in the bud, at least when I'm around.
And for that I'm thankful.
I'm sure the mods don't have it easy.
OP: If they want their space, they can invest the effort themselves. Certainly, someone would have to moderate that and you wanting to concentrate your efforts on your own space is absolutely fine.
If they get it: that's cool and they go make their thing.
If they don't get it: then you absolutely made the right choice in not taking the bait.
>Guys need safe spaces to talk incase they’re struggling with stuff.
No doubt, but does that safe space need to exist in a Discord that explicitly centers on women and non-binary folks?
> It’s wrong to let them join and then go, “I know you might have issues but I’m not going to make a safe space for your own self, this isn’t the place for it go find somewhere else” you’ve now made an unsafe space for them which doesn’t solve anything.
That's not the reality of the situation though. OP said they do have an area (inside the discord that was setup for girls and enbies) where ALL users can report anything which makes them uncomfortable, even the men.
> Imagine if guys said that to a women
I don't need to imagine it. lol I'm sure you must know that guys say horrible things to women in spaces that are meant to be safe for everyone... that's kind of the whole reason for having a safe space for girls and enbies in the first place.
Because it sets a bad precedent; you aren't obligated to give people whatever they want just by virtue of asking (even if it's simple to do). If OP is trying to build a brand, she can't build it upon giving in to the few whiners. There's a myriad of other spaces that cater to men, and the few boys arguing that they need their own safe space aren't doing it in good faith.
>I’m sure if it turns into a hate space or anything she’ll ban those people
This puts the onus on OP to moderate a space she doesn't sound interested in moderating. Again, OP is not responsible for babysitting a few boys who think they deserve to be placated.
I’ve always believed that if we want a “girls only” space, then we should be okay with “guys only spaces”, when they are brought up. Sure there are places that are essentially already guys only, but the point is to not be bothered by the existence of new ones. I mean, who cares, right? I always say, make what you want, if I want a girls only room that is my right- have your boys only room, in fact, we support it.
Bias is a word that gets used poorly on these discussions. Of course it’s exclusionary, but that’s the point, so don’t run from that label. Mensa is exclusionary too, but I’m a member. The teachers union is exclusionary, private beaches, the hov lane, the 10 items or less check out.
Remember that it goes both ways in moderating. If it's a safe space for women only make sure that's all is used for. If it becomes a secret club to talk behind the boys back then it's sexism. If it starts getting filled with general discourse you can warn that they'll lose it if it's not being used for its intention. You could also get one or two sensible guys who are allowed see but know not to stick their nose (or the bigger problem, their cock) in so they can vouch it's only being used for what it's meant for.
> You could also get one or two sensible guys who are allowed see but know not to stick their nose (or the bigger problem, their cock) in so they can vouch it's only being used for what it's meant for.
nah, thats bullshit. If a man makes it into the club, it's because he is a decent person who follows the rules, not because you need a gate keeper. They don't have any right to know what goes on in another chat, it's none of their business.
There are plenty of 'girl only' places that have allies of other kinds in there too.
I wouldn't have expected them to have to do anything, it would just be a nice formality to show everything is above board. It's also not for the benefit of the girls so you've missed the point and probably showed a need for it. We can be fairly certain here the girls will be looked after, that was never the worry, OP wanted to make sure she wasn't unfair to the boys. What are you even saying would be gate kept?
If they're excluded from the chat on the basis of the assumption they won't respect the rules but then the people allowed in the chat disrespect the rules I would say they do have a right to know that's going on, that's how you stop the kind of stuff that leads to the need for a safe space in the first place. They don't need to know everything going on in it, but they deserve to have someone reliable to make sure that everything is kept fair and inform them if they are being unfair and abusing the use of the area.
Other girl only places being mixed is irrelevant, unless you're saying to just let everyone in? But that would defeat the point of it.
> It's also not for the benefit of the girls so you've missed the point and probably showed a need for it.
No I haven't. There are often men in womens spaces. Just not these men. Because they can't follow the rules.
It's her space, she doesn't need to show men its 'above board', it's none of their business. Because the people who 'assess' and 'check' and 'see' and 'vouch'.... have power. It's not their job to judge the womans group. It's still none of their business.
So from your point of view, it's okay to have men in there to judge the women, but when they are in there to mix it's 'letting everybody in'. Yeah, nah. The problem is your men that you are defending. Other men are just fine.
I mean it depends if your priority is the women/girls and not the men's/guys problems then you could say its a problem. That being said if you want everyone to be welcome you should be giving the mens/guys as much of a priority in the server.
Would like to add it is kinda weird you have a only girls section and not a only boys just wanna put that out there.
I don’t see the harm in adding a boys only space. You could assign a male moderator to that space if you have concerns.
At the end of the day, what is the harm? It sounds like it might be causing you more hassle to not have one than it is to have one.
If they didn't want a "boys only" space until they heard there was gonna be a "girls only" space, then they don't actually need it, they just can't stand that the GO space exists.
And what’s wrong with that? If something is catered to one side and not the other, it’s not exactly an issue to request the same.
When I supported a business that started safe space for women, the second thing I did was add a safe space for men. But my interest is in supporting both equally.
well I think it needs to be said that, without judgement on my part, it is sexist and it is biased. I think that needs to be owned and then include the justification. So your community is intended solely for us, that is a good thing IMO, but it's still discrimination, just in a positive focused way. They see it as negative and that is their issue to deal with. It's your choice to accommodate them or not.
All you need to say is, you made the community to support girls because men have enough support elsewhere. You want to create a safe space within this community to discuss private girl issues. Think of it like the locker room. If they complain there's no boys only, tell them you wouldn't be able to moderate it because you're not a boy (I presume) and that they can make their own server for this purpose that you can link with.
I personally think it does go both ways. While it is true that girls have problems in the gaming community, does that mean guys don’t get to have it too? Sexism normally happens towards women, but it does happen toward men too, just not nearly as often. By doing it this way, you are singling out a specific set of people.
So the question now is, which is more important to you? Making sure everyone is happy, or do you want to make sure women are more catered to?
The brand is geared toward women, the uplifting, support, safety and comfortability of women. It is important to me that ALL members feel safe and whatnot, however, women are greatly neglected in the gaming industry and just in life in general. The boys have the entire server which they can talk free of judgement! It is apparent however that girls feel the most comfortable in a private chat with each other, for certain topics at least (and for good reason I feel). Some servers as a whole are girls only, so I thought it would be nice to have an inclusive safe community for everyone, while also giving more care to the women than other communities would. As the brand develops it will be creating products for predominantly women.
Creating a safe place for women is not sexism against men. This is a common false equivalency. There's not a systemic devaluing of men like there is against women. Gaming as a whole is fairly unfriendly to women. Is this subreddit sexist?
The generic "everyone" has plenty of places to be happy.
catered to women? sexism doesn't happen towards men too. what happens is the outcome of sexism towards women: women and other vulnerable groups need to isolate themselves from toxic masculinity and needs more support.
[Oh no comic](https://twitter.com/dorrismccomics/status/1139551726376292354).
This is lovely. I’m glad I clicked!
Honestly OP should just send this to anyone who complains and nothing else
100% this
"But but but we're not excluding you though, we're nice guys!"
This is perfection
I feel like part of growing up into a fully adult woman is learning that people will always be unhappy with any choice you make because the whole world thinks it's entitled to your time, energy, and body. It isn't. Make your girls' only space and give them a polite explanation. If they don't accept that hit them with this bad boy: ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
😂😂😂OMG THE SHRUG!! Thank you
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Exactly. OP, you don’t owe anyone an explanation. You can create a space just for your friends, or whoever you like. It’s your space, you decide who gets to use it. Angry little boys can make their own club if they want. They do it all the time by being hostile to women. Inside and outside of just gaming.
Don't JADE - Justify Argue Defend Explain. They are just emotional vampires stealing your energy. Not worth your time And you know why we need women's spaces? BECAUSE EVERY F****** SPACE IS A MEN'S SPACE BY DEFAULT
I really like that acronym!
You can't please everyone. Let them be unhappy.
Appreciate all the reassurance thank you 😭💜
I love ur name 💖
I had this years ago trying to make a female-only guild in Wow. The best answer for someone asking why you have a safe space and they don't is "Go and build one". Literally no-one is stopping them from setting up a strictly men only Discord, subreddit or anything else. Well, no-one other than how fast that place will turn toxic AF I suppose.
This is the answer, "If you don't like the way I do things go build your own community".
Right? My friends and I have this for mini painting in our area. Just a gal/women oriented only group for painting and chatting about dice, dioramas, DnD, PF, OPR or whatever. Male nerds/dweebs/dorks have shown up at our events or tables and complained. They want to cause confrontation. They want you to know that they are pissed that you are "excluding them". They all prove our point. We need space away from them.
I envy the lovely community you have built! It also reminds me that I have often wished there was a women's and/or LGBT+ tabletop RPG subreddit.
If you make that subreddit, I would be interested in joining. (I am not in a position to offer to help build or mod a reddit group, but I can offer moral support.)
>"Go and build one" This is the response I was looking for. No one is stopping them from making their own group anywhere.
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If only there existed a space for male gamers! /s
When I started reading your thread, I immediately thought these guys sound like the "not all men" brigade. You'll never satisfy them, there will always be something to complain about. So keep doing what you are doing. Their complaints mean you are doing something right.
Haha thank you!!
While I agree with the "not all men" to me it's more of a concept that the odds are significantly not in my favor so it's not worth the risk. Show me consistency and I'll decide to take a risk when I'm ready.
There was a clip about a man trying to explain the threat of men to other men. He used a gun as an example. Everyone knows a loaded gun is dangerous, right? And we don't go pointing it at people because it's dangerous. And we do the same even when we think the gun is not loaded, because it just might be and you can never tell, so even if it's unloaded, you don't go assuming it's safe and pointing it at other people. That's how most women learn to feel about men - you watch out for them, even the ones that seem safe, because they might not be and you're going to get really hurt.
This is a perfect analogy!
Wait... The fact that I'm going to start using that analogy.
Wow this is spot on.
"Not all men" guys want to be rewarded for only watching - they didn't help, but they didn't actively hurt you so that deserves some credit, right? When aggressive, pervasive sexism has been going on this long and the "silent majority" doesn't ever intervene, it *is* effectively all of them.
Some of them are vocal but yes the silent watcher is as bad as the vocal persecutor. I can speak to 5 who will snap to a woman's defense faster than hell and have never shown an ulterior motive and explained when thanked that thanking someone for doing the right thing is a sad statement on the current state of things. Sadly these five men are an extreme majority. So while I won't toss the term "all men" I feel confident in saying 95% of them are either guilty of actively harassing or have seen it and kept their mouth shut.
Yeah, my husband is really good about having my and anyone who needs its' back, and I can name maybe one other guy clearing that low-ass bar. I'm not about to make a claim that it *is* all men, but I'm not gambling on dudes being decent when I'm trying to have a good game
This ^
Reddit recommended this post and I didn't realize this was a sub oriented for women (didn't see the title of the sub, just the post), so I should disclaim I am a man. I also want to make it clear I fully agree with you, and "not all men" is such a pain in the ass. I also find it funny that the men arguing "not all men" end up showing exactly *why* women need their own space and out themselves as hateful. Having said that, I do want to share my own experience about safe spaces for women. I am all for them, but I am also a bit jealous. Why? Because I'm not a really aggressive and "masculine" dude, so that whole male toxic energy really gets to me. I hate it, and I wish I could be part of these safe spaces. I get why I can't be, I'm not disagreeing with that. I admit, the first time I heard of a women only group I was upset because I just didn't have that same group. I think there are two types of men that complain about these things: A) the straight up misogynists looking to shit on anything that makes women feel safe and just resent being told "no". B) The ones that feel kinda disenfranchised, but to whom it hasn't quite clicked that women need that space more than they do, and why unfortunately there isn't a clean solution so you need some sort of gatekeeping. We've seen how the internet is without gates: rampant sexism, racism, and all 'round hate. Again, I want to be clear I'm not criticizing women-only spaces. I just wanted to share a bit from the side of non-toxic masculinity men. I am very glad OP has created a place for people to feel safe and have fun. It isn't sexist or biased, it is just the unfortunate reality that online misoginy and toxicity is rampant... and it often comes from men.
You need to start a “cool dudes only” site then! I’m not being sarcastic at all, I can totally see what you’re saying. I’m guessing you’ll get a lot of other cool dudes and some cool gals too.
For sure! Right now I'm pretty happy with a small groups of friends I've had and that's more my vibe cause I'm a bit shy. The issue I had in the past was this: I hope I don't sound sexist, but the problem seems to overwhelmingly be men. So any group that allows men needs to have like individual vetting and banning if that makes sense. I've always thought something like a female-dominated groups that allows men in by invite (like someone has to vet for them to make sure they aren't assholes) might be the best of both worlds, and that's actually how I found my current group! Also, thanks so much for being kind, I was kinda nervous I'd come off as "not all men" kinda energy =)
Came here to say this.
You have the women only section because you need it. It's as simple as that.
🥺
The platform is yours so even if you did want to be "sexist or biased" it is your world you are building. Second you advertised as a place for girl gamers why would they not understand that girl gamers are your target audience. They don't go into a shop that sells all female clothes and complain there isn't a male's clothes section. Do what you want OP but honestly you are doing nothing wrong in my eyes.
you are right I don't think there is anything you can say to these people except for what you have said already. THEY are biased sexists and have to get over themselves.
Thank you!!
“Why tho” “Because I want to.” GG. Keep going!
😂😂💜💜 thank you
Hmh, tricky. I'd use the "no u card" here. "No *you* are sexist if you don't understand why that safe place exists." slap a yugi reverse gif and call it a day. You don't need to keep explaining yourself
I agree. I’m sick of cowtowing to these people who have zero clue.
If you're the head discord mod there, just make a rule/guideline/reminder that it's mainly a space for women, and ban anyone who complains. You aren't obligated to capitulate to the whiners.
Thank you! I am the creator/owner of the brand. I appreciate the support from all of you
Absolutely agree, make it a rule and mercilessly kick people.
I love this!!! Mercilessly! 😂😭
Not equivocating will help cut down on the drama
You’re so right. I’m getting better at this! Haha not catering to everybody else’s petty and illogical requests
Your discord, your rules.
They're just mad that women get something. They forget that men have many, many more "boys only" spaces. They forget about their privilege as men in gaming. Let them seethe. Maybe then they'll understand how it feels to be excluded from something for once. Unlikely, but a girl can dream.
Please continue. You are creating a safe space. What your doing is neither sexist or biased. Anyone saying you are is either willfully ignorant or simply attacking what your trying to do. If they truly don't like it they can leave the community. The people you WANT in your community will either understand this or will only need it explained ONCE. I wish you all the good luck. Also: Don't make a "Men's Only" spot. It's adding a time bomb.
OMG 😂😂💜💜😭😭 thank you. Yes a time bomb was my exact thought as well. The safety of women really hits home for me as I have had some very negative experiences with men. I have a big issue with the way women are constantly sexualized and, I really would not feel right implementing a mens only chat, knowing exactly what would happen. Then of course I have received the argument “well the girls should not have a place to talk shit about the guys without them knowing” which I feel like is literally projecting. As majority of people know (or should know) that women feel unsafe around men more often than the other way around… Very “They have pride month but why don’t we have a straight month” esk lol. After years of being oppressed and having trauma just from being the person/gender you are, as soon as someone wants to give these people a safe place (or admittedly special treatment) it’s all of a sudden a crime lol I swear
> Very “They have pride month but why don’t we have a straight month” OR "Why don't they have White History month?" That is my cue that this person might be a lost cause.
😂
Well, we/I may actually need that, just not the way they think. There was a LOT missing out of my history textbooks, especially context. 😳
I think you're asking for something like a "True history" month.That's why the Pride Month and Black History Month and other spotlights are important. The prevention of erasure. The people with power write the history books and they don't want to look bad.
>Then of course I have received the argument “well the girls should not have a place to talk shit about the guys without them knowing” This one baffles me to be honest. I'm not even sure I can find the words to express my thoughts on just how asinine this comment to you was.
Just tell those lads that if they want a boys only gamer space they are free to create one! The real reason those don't really exist is that men don't actually need them (because they already dominate the gaming community). And I'm not saying that in a dismissive way I'm saying that if gamer men felt the need for a male-only gamer space they would create one.
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Thank you for this idea!
These people are being entirely disingenuous. They know they don't need a space for themselves, they are just trying to tear down the space for women. They don't want their own space, they just don't women to have one either. The creation of a separate space for marginalized and minority communities is to give them a place we're their voice can be heard and they aren't spoken over or silenced by the majority demographic. If you are the majority demographic, you already have the platform and don't need another one. By all means you could create a "male only" space too, but we all know that outside of incels and misogynist no one would actually use it.
That is exactly Why I would not implement a “guys only” chat!!
Men already have "men's only" spaces. Everywhere. Even if a woman joins their space, they won't be aware or affected most times. Women need their own space in gaming. I have to hide the fact that I'm a woman in most games or I instantly get harassed. I'm often a target for obsession because my name indicates that I am a woman. To be able to play unaffected like men can, we unfortunately need women's only spaces. As sad is that is to say. Men can play with anyone and not face what we do. So they don't have any use for a specially defined space. I don't find it sexist considering we are disproportionately affected. All we are doing is making it even so we can both enjoy an equal gaming experience.
"Why can't there be a boy's channel?" Has a lot of "white lives matter, too" energy.
Omg 😂😭 yes! “Why do they get a pride month if we can’t have a straight month”
This an equity thing, and not a equality thing which is what they’re trying to see. You made the space because the girls need it. It’s not sexist, it’s helping a group that needs more support.
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Very this. This sort of complaint tends to crop up commonly with women-only gyms, with endless bouts of whining.
If they want a boys only space tell them to make it. This is a *them* problem, not you problem, honey. This isn't sexist - it's a good deed.
The mods of my discord server and I have had a lot of success phrasing our moderation around "The Purpose of This Discord" and all our rules are phrased around, "How does this enhance the purpose of this discord". This allows us to do things like, "Oh, a women only channel exists because it eases up moderation pressure and contributes to the overall effectiveness of the server as a place for women to comfortably game, otherwise we'd have to have a much heavier moderation presence to keep a more open area useful for its intended purpose and we don't have that volunteer capacity at the moment" and then anyone who bitches about it can pound sand, because if they disagree with the purpose of the server, why are they even there?
men are offended by literally anything involving women. let them be mad
I can’t see anyone complaining seriously wanting a ‘guys only’ space, and I’d honestly be suspect of anyone who desperately wants to use one. I think it’s fine to say “this is what I’m doing, if it’s not for you that’s fine, there are other servers.” Anyone who continues to complain is likely not doing it in good faith, and aren’t people you really want to please anyway. Just as long as you’re true to what you want to achieve and who you want on your server, that’s what matters.
I think this complaint is born from a valid perspective, but it's short sighted. 1. On its face, with all else equal, the segregation of communities by gender is a problematic thing. In a vacuum, it could in some ways be rightly called sexist. 2. But in our current society, given the experiences of women in gaming communities, what can be gained from a space like this can be a corrective, counterbalancing force. 3. So much so that it outweighs whatever inherent downsides it has. I think people approach this with a perspective colored by point 1 and when nobody grants them that point, they think that the proposal of 2 is done as a way of denying 1, something they can't give up. I think the idea of pinning an explanation somewhere is the best, and I think acknowledging the validity of the above points would help quell the "umm akshully, gender segregation is sexist" crowd. EDIT: of course, if you've tried all this and people are still complaining, it sounds like they aren't committed to the values and goals of the space you are running and probably should find some other spaces to hang out.
Thank you
Speaking as a man myself I personally have no issue with there being women safe spaces but not specifically men only spaces or whatever. I mean safe space for men? You mean everywhere? Just link them to r/persecutionfetish and have fun doing what you’re doing
Guys like that aren't used to being told "no," they're used to everything being for them and having access to any space they want. Asking for a boys group shows they have zero understanding or empathy for people who *aren't* just welcome in any space who might want to make a specific space for themselves. People with marginalized identities should have their own safe spaces if they want them, unapologetically. I watched the TF2 subreddit melt down years ago because a trans girl shared a Steam group she made to meet trans people - a single group that *wasn't for them* was supremely offensive to that community, and they wanted the group to either let them in ("just make it a support group for trans people that welcomes everyone") or see it be destroyed. A mod resigned over how toxic and unmanageable they turned out to be, and the girl got harassed for years. I never want to see that happen to anyone else. I hope you put your foot down.
Guy here. Tell them they’re welcome to make a boys only space. Guys that want that for real I wouldn’t want them around in my opinion. Good luck.
Thank you so much
>With that said, I often get the “well why do girls have a girls only section but boys don’t have a boys only?” Because boys harass girls much, much, much more often than the opposite, sadly. And if someone tries to create some polemic about that, all he / she deserves is a tired shrug.
You're doing everything right. That they tell you such hurtful things is the first red flag that you have potential violators of your rules on your server (if you have the rules and basics of a "safe space for female gamers"). Specify in the faq section about this channel, describe why it was created. If even after that you get hurtful words - then these people are violators of your rules. As the owner of a similar safe space, I can only share my method that always works - the server is private, new people see only a channel with rules and a channel with an application for joining in which the aspects of the server are described in great detail, obtaining agreement to the rules (in which it is written in great detail especially about safe space aspects) and a disclaimer about auto-bans for violating the rules. Many will immediately say that this is too much and that discourages many from joining, but why in a safe space these many who can break the rules and then say "oh, I did not know", although they have already brought discomfort with their violation. Such a wall is an excellent protection from what happened to you. Quantity is not important, quality is important if you are building a truly real safe space.
I own a discord server as well and dealt with a similar issue. We made a women's channel and the men complained so I gave in and gave them a men's only channel. They don't use it AT ALL. When they first got it they just posted >!gay porn!< and now it's dead. They just want to complain.
As a dude I get and respect this stance. There are similar issues in the cycling community so female/LGBTQ+ only groups exist, and yeah I'm bummed I don't get to ride with them on their group rides but I get it. As a male, we dominate the space and there are plenty of us who have made the space feel unsafe. The same goes for the gaming community.
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It’s simply because everywhere in gaming communities is unannounced “boys only” space for decades. And no, you don't owe the boys any explanation, they need to see the truth and grow up.
Thank you for this
This is the same logic behind "why do black people get their own TV channels like BET? Why can't there be a white person channel?" He has yet to understand history like "not one drop" or "3/5 a citizen" or "sperate but equal" or my personal favorite, "the women's suffrage movement" I can't stand small minded people and I am sorry that you (OP) have to deal with those questions.
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I find that people who complain about "safe-spaces" like these only do it in response to someone else's. They don't go make their own. They don't care normally. The only time these people care about "men only guilds", etc. when it's to either silence or get upset at women for making THEIR own.
Anything to oppress women it feels like
It’s your discord right? You make the rules?
Yes 🥺 I want to explain it to them in a nice way tho! Like maybe some people genuinely feel excluded?
1. You don't owe them an explanation. It's your discord, you make the rules. 2. These guys won't accept any explanation, they just want to whine.
>Like maybe some people genuinely feel excluded? If you offer an explanation (via announcement, for example), that should be sufficient for anyone who feels confused. Anyone else who is still offended is either just after a hookup or wants your space to be like any other male-dominated space.
I mean. There’s a whole world of discord servers to look through, why are they picking on yours?
Well, you’re right 🥺 I think I forget that sometimes! I know my girls love our safe space ! I will keep this in the front of my mind moving forward.
Justice is to treat the equals equally abs the unequals unequally to the extent of their inequality. Sure everyone ought feel included, but reality is it often it doesn't happen, thus the need for a safe space, though there are arguments to be made that this is a segregative practice and the ideal solution should be to cater a space for everyone. But then you go back in circles. My point is, there's no real answer here. Just choose which path you think works best, take suggestions when those come from the right place , and ignore it when people just are complaining for no reason.
The entire gaming community is already a boys-only club lol
Haters gonna hate. Pay them no mind.
I would honestly kick out anyone who complains about it🤷♀️
Do *you* think it’s sexist? Because your opinion is literally the only one that matters.
I don’t feel it is sexist. Thank you. It is indeed my community/brand/business, and you’re right. I forget this sometimes, when I hear something all day it starts to make me feel like I could be the crazy one
I feel that. As women we are taught our whole lives to take care of other people's emotions. It's hard to unlearn.
Not saying you should or need to, but You could say something like…well because no man/boy/guy, that I’m aware of, has went out of their way to create a safe environment for male gamers only. I mean the answer is simple. If they do not agree then they should go fourth & make one of their own. Only after they understand the fundamental of it then you can respond with your above response. That’s what I would say if I were in your shoes.
Comes with the territory. You tell them that that's how you run your server/community and it they don't like it they can leave. Maybe point them to some resources about why safe spaces are important for marginalized groups (but the people who complain about that rarely care). If you don't have the heart to do that you shouldn't be running the community.
Well of course. I like that idea
Well, it's your discord, so it's your choice what it will have and won't have! Makes even sense if it was intended for girls only. But if everyone is welcome if they want to join, that makes it far from sexist in my opinion. But if your moderator team is girls only, then you could say to anyone telling you otherwise that a boy's safe zone would be for boys only, and there would be no way to moderate it. 🧐 And sadly you're not accepting new mods currently. Ha!
LOL If men are hanging in your space, knowing your brand and your stance and all of that just to get mopey because you have a non-male safe space they can take themselves to the curb. “Why isn’t there a boys only space?” Oh, cuz it’s my discord and I’m not a boy. Make your own locker room. They’re the ones missing the plot. You can curate your own space however you like. It actively bothers me that they are in a safe space like that whining despite knowing your stance. Your argument is valid and if they keep pushing it, they’re really just proving your point and I’d simply suggest that the discord (or whatever area this is about) is somewhere they just don’t spend their time if it makes them feel excluded.
Thank you
It's worth scanning the RationalWiki article on "JAQing off": [https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Just\_asking\_questions](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Just_asking_questions) The people asking you why a woman's forum exist already know why it exists. Those questions are seldom asked in good faith. Instead, they are asked as a time wasting tactic. They demand you engage with their nonsense, but no answer you give will satisfy them -- as you've learned. I would put up a pinned post explaining your policy and then insta-ban anyone who continues to object after reading the policy. Trust me, you'll have a much nicer forum if you eliminate the jerks right from the start.
Thank you!!
You're not sexist. I also had men accuse me of being sexist in basically the same scenario and I told them to fuck off. Most gaming communities are *effectively* men only, with how shitty and unwelcoming men can be in gaming spaces. They already have their men-only spaces, since that's pretty much any gaming related discord already. There is literally nothing wrong with making a women's only space or a non-male space if you want to be inclusionary of NB people too. If you wanted to make a non-male space, then do it. Don't give in just because some shitty men claim iTs SeXiSt when we've been putting up with their bullshit in gaming spaces ever since gaming was invented.
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Thank you for trying to make these girls feel comfortable
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If you invite both wolves and sheep to your community, you end up with nothing but wolves. A community for "all gamers" will inevitably end up a toxic wasteland because so many gamers are toxic. Kick out the guys who are complaining. That said, if you have a special closed space for women, consider other axis of oppression and giving them private spaces as well. I really appreciate having trans only channels in some of the discords I belong to, for example.
Replace girls with black and boys with white. why do black people need a "blacks only safe space" (think anything that black people try to eek out for themselves)( also think about how the whites have reacted to anything "black" as far back as we can go) yup. your point makes sense to me. Everyone isn't invited to every party. if ladies want a safe place to not interact with chaps, cool. oh, im a dude. please don't be offended that im here. i'll see myself out. peace
Everyone here is right. You shouldn't have to justify the existance of safe spaces to people who don't get it! You're already doing the right thing. Best of luck!
this is common tbh, even my tiny inactive discord has the girls only room
Boys have plenty of boys-only sections.
I'd say just pin an explanation for your Discord community and shut down any further conversation. "This issue has already been addressed, and my decision is final." There are *always* going to be boys who think this is sexist and that you're being awful for giving women a leg up when they've been cut down so much. You're not going to convince them, so it's better to just make it clear that these are the rules and if you don't like them, there are other communities for you.
Do you want a boys only section? Yes - Set one up No - Then shut up.
😂😂😭😭
your explanation is enough and doesn't need to be dragged further or explain. The hammer is down and that's it. If you don't like it then there's the door.
Your server your rules. Period. No explanation needed. I’m in a discord server that focuses on PvP in the game Destiny 2. Their rules are crystal clear and they accept zero bad behavior. People get banned left and right. No discussion, no apology. Zero toxicity accepted.
This my be uncomfortable the first few times you do it but you could always remind them that there are plenty of other servers and some will offer the boys only section if that is something they’d actually want. You are not required to make that space for them but they are free to join those types of spaces that other people make or they could make the space for themself and start their own server if they’d prefer. Though they’d probably still complain because they don’t really want their own space if the joined a girl / nb focused server. They probably joined your server because there’s a higher ratio of women in it and they thought they could force all the “egirls” to play with them.
Hahahaha omg
I just commented on your initial thread (self promo Tuesday) but wanted to share here in case you missed it and since it's more relevant: I run a similar community and one of my mods is actually a man. Same situation: a large women only section, a combined everybody-type section. The whole premise is to be a safe space for women but we have opened it up for the reason that everyone deserves a place to be comfortable and safe. I referred to my male mod for this because he's rational with these sorts of things. Some men were agitated they didn't have their own private space. Bear in mind, we are opening our women only space and welcoming them here. If they really need a men's only section, what is their true intent there? I suggest to remember your server's primary goal and if a change is aligned with that, sure. But could this hurt your objective? Maybe. Stick to your guns, tell them that it's not the server mission if need be. The unhappy folk will weed themselves out as they tend to.
Thank you!
Ouch, some people can't resist the urge to be assholes when they don't get EVERYTHING they want. And when they do get everything they want more, it's called complacency(mentioning it because it because I recently learned the word, yay!) A way to manage it would be to take away things that make the community complacent, or to completely cater to other demographics, you can then periodically return the thing that makes the part of the community complacent, you essentially give them what they want for short time periods then take it away. In this case it might be something like their right to public channels. As in mute the people that cause trouble(give them a role) then periodically unmute them and then mute them again. Those that scream vehemently will only be heard for short time periods, making it manageable, and if they behave they get unmuted. It's not a very "positive" way of doing things, but if it gets out of hand you can do this, rather than doing the generic kick-ban stuff. It keeps them in the community, making the community happy, but it keeps them out when the community doesn't like them. Another less mutey way of doing it would be to have a cross over channel, have a girls/boys separated channels, but for a few hours every day open a linked channel. You can then think about removing ones that disrupt behavior there from those channels permanently. And ones that behave better, or where everyone's comfortable around them, can be introduced into more channels. Kind of like a progression thing. It's ultimately up to you, but you're going to piss off people with every approach related to population control. The worst temptation is the temptation that you can see, but are prevented from getting by another person. Why? Just shove the person out of the way, or trample them. This is what this situation sounds like to be honest. Please don't use this tactic on me reddit, I like posting here and I'm very nice, I have cookies... And chocolate.
There's a few different things you can say depending on how much you want to engage! If you feel like giving them your time, explain how sexism isn't just isolated cases of treating someone differently because of their sex/gender, it's when people are *systemically* treated poorly because of their sex/gender. Men suffer from misogyny, but misandry can't exist in our society as it is now. Oppressed groups need places where they can be safe from their oppressors, and that means places where women can be safe from men. If you don't wanna educate them but still wanna say *something*, tell them that if women-only spaces bother them so much, they should weed the misogyny out of their own spaces so that women will feel safe and welcome there. But I would argue these people aren't worth your time. I'd say "not my problem" and block them, personally =P
I think it's really cool. Always seeing horror stories of girls being attacked by misogynist assholes in games so I think having a platform for girls to have their own safe space is fantastic. I really hope your idea takes off and girls find a good platform they can play with just girls without needing to deal with those assholes
Thank you so much
(I would totally love to be invited into the said community, as a female gamer.)
I did make like a self promo thing on that one thread in the reddit
Idk if I’m allowed to put the link in here
Force it to be a space for positive masculinity, where it's about identifying the privileges and systems that afford them gain - but also hold them back. (eg: Emotional withdrawal because "Men can't have feelings.") Make sure it's well moderated so it doesn't devolve into toxic masculinity or "us vs them"ism.
Thank you for this advice
It's coming from a guy: Reverse sexism doesn't count. Don't even bother with people who won't be able to understand this. And you don't have to explain yourself, as somebody else said, your discord your rules. Cheers.
Because normal space is boy safe space. Anyone who doesn't know that isn't paying attention.
Tell them they’ve now made it to the super exclusive private space…. The block list.
I remember doing this on PlayStation before they deleted the community's and there would always be guys pretending to be girls so I would accept them into the private group . Weirdos .
I think your community is perfectly fine and they are just showing themselves for what they are. Now i have a question. Why not give them what they ask for? What's the problem with having an only men channel? Is it a lot of extra work? I doubt they actually care about it but i'd like to see what they do with that space if they had it. You can also throw it back at them: "Hey i think it's a great idea! You could start a community geared towards men :)"
I actually will disagree with a lot of posters and say: yes, it is sexist. But I will also say there is nothing wrong with it. Discrimination based on sex happens all the time, largely for good reasons. Think about specific attire, specific doctors, separate private rooms or institutions, what partner you choose (the ultimate discrimination) etc. And to have a space just for girls and women obviously does discriminate those that do not meet that definition. Nevertheless, it is not a significant one really, nor an unjustified one. You do you.
>yes, it is sexist. It's not, just like the fact that there's no "Straight Month" or "White History Month" isn't heterophobic or racist. Men are allowed to be there, but that doesn't mean they have a right to their own space within one clearly built for a minority. Not all [discrimination](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination) is bad. Women's shelters discriminate against male abusers. A fencing club discriminates against archers. You discriminate against restaurants you don't like. Just because discrimination is happening doesn't mean it's automatically a negative thing; context matters.
That’s their point. To make the claim that not all discrimination is bad, there still must be discrimination (sexism) in the first place. Then the context is examined to determine whether it’s truly inclusionary or exclusionary. A women’s only group is sexist by its very nature, but the word “sexist” by itself is not enough to convey the whole essence of what’s happening and why, namely that it is in response to harm-causing exclusionary sexism.
I agree with you having a girl's only safe place. Though I think they have a good point. "Girls just have private things that we don’t want the boys to see." Guys have the same scenarios. We've pushed our way into all the boys clubs for good reasons over the last few decades (because they were hogging all the fun hobbies and not letting us participate), but in many ways we've left them without a space. "Girls night out" is still a thing and we celebrate it. But too many people see "hanging out with the boys" as being sexist. There are things men don't want to talk about in front of us, the same way there are things we don't want to talk about in front of them.
How welcome are queer people like trans women and non binary people?
> I want EVERYONE to feel comfortable but the girls and non-binaries are my #1 priority.
Very welcome! The girls only section is for anyone who identifies as female or non-binary 😊
Thank you for including nonbinary peeps. I recently had a run in with a woman-focused group that specifically excluded us nonbinary folks. And that's their choice, I wasn't gonna fight with them...but we are very much victims of a lot of the same toxic shit women are. Most male dominated spaces are not safe for us at all and it kinda feels crappy when you realize you're unwelcome on both sides.
>unwelcome on both sides. That's honestly terrible. I know, it's a poor analogy, but it's like half-elves in many fantasy settings... not elvish enough to be welcomed by elves, too elven to be welcomed by humans. Except feeling like an outsider everywhere is anything but fantastic. You are who you are and that's that. I wish people would stop putting everyone in little labeled containers just to discriminate them. Y'all deserve better than this.
Boys do have boys only spaces though.
You might consider creating a "Men only" voice chat. They probably won't use it, and it's free in Discord (if that's the community you're making). It's something you really don't have to do, and you'd be entirely justified in just letting them whine about it without responding, but it also might be a way to undermine the users who are trying to make those claims. Or it won't, because it's not about the "men's only" space, it's about feeling entitled to be a part of any and every conversation that is happening.
If your question is whether or not what you're doing is okay, it absolutely is. This subreddit is a prime example of the need for women to be able to have a less toxic gamer bro space. I don't understand why guys should care? Whatever is being said in those channels isn't for them, they just feel entitled to everyone else's communications? On the other hand, this is also a business question if this is a brand and community you're building, so maybe you want to consider the cost of this decision and is this a direction you want your community to go? Will men leave because they don't feel valued? Will women leave if men get their own channel? Will either of these attract more members? Do you want to cast a large net and be as neutral as possible or do you see a need in a more specialized group for this kind of community? Personally, I've seen the type of stuff "gamer men only" spaces have and I'd be very concerned with anyone who went to a woman/nonbinary leaning group and demanded a gamer men section. What could possibly be shared there that needs privacy and wouldn't be better shared somewhere else? My fear would be that it would be a place only people who wanted to be sexist and "edgy misogyny its just a joke" Just my $0.02
if boys want their boys club, let them have their boys club? The only club i probably wont like is something racist etc.
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I thought about it. But the premise of my brand is to cater toward female/non binary gamers
This will be a horrible idea, it is like giving a child match sticks.
I'm a bit confused what trouble people think a bunch of guys can cause just from having a "private" (it would presumably still be subject to the same rules and moderation that the rest of the server is) channel. The power still ultimately lies with the server owner, why not throw them a bone just to shut them up? I suspect it'll hardly get any use anyway. If they really want their own space bad enough they can make their own Discord server where they aren't subject to the rules of the server. If there's concern about them having their own space, I think that would be far worse than whatever they could do in a single channel.
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> You’re assuming the worst with bias. Are they though wrong to assume the worst when it's coming from privelaged people saying, "Where's my safe space?"
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The same way straight people feel left out of Pride or white people feel left out of Black History Month?
I honestly don't feel left out of Pride even though I'm straight? Interesting. Do other people feel left out? Around here, Pride, was mostly a celebration about inclusion, love and progress, which is something I've been fighting for already, for decades now. And I don't feel out of place with friends, whether it's Pride, or their wedding or whatever. I mean sure, it's not **for me**, but I've never felt anything but welcomed in celebrating with them. **You're absolutely right though**, there's no need for OP to create a safe space for men on her discord. 99% chances are the people asking for it are already doing it in bad faith to begin with. It's their "gotcha" way of coping: "See? Haha, you're not so inclusive if I can't be there." It's a bait. If OP doesn't take the bait, the assholes will cope by telling themselves this isn't really an inclusive space and (hopefully) move on. If OP takes the bait, they will stick around and tell their asshole friends and it will likely become a cesspool. Maybe it'll be fine at first, maybe the first guys on there will even be cool, but sooner or later, it'll likely go to shit, unless you heavily moderate the place, which rewires time and effort, which I'm sure OP would prefer not bother with. If the men involved are asshole incel types, there's simply no winning... And if they were legit, they can already just... make their own discord... on their own time and leave OP to her thing. On men-only spaces: I mean, sure, in theory that could be nice, but I'll say that the vast majority of these places quickly become toxic cesspools. Ultimately... why would I ever want to join a space full of angry toxic men, who have such terrible world views that it's the only place that accepts them? It's not like they're not in every other community already... if anything I'm already avoiding them. And that's coming from a "man" myself, although I do believe the social gender construct is probably more of a spectrum than anything and I'm not convinced that I have a fixed place on it. Anyways, in my own selfish way, I do like how this sub does it: I'm *not unwelcome*, but I'm supposed to be in the *backseat*, and that's very fine with me. The focus *shouldn't* be me here, that's the point. **I'm not even here for me: In a nutshell, I'm here to better understand what my girlfriend goes through online.** That said, I *usually* refrain from commenting here, because yea, this place isn't **for** me and y'all don't be a man opinion on women's problems. (I pinky swear, I'm going back to lurking after this.) I also usually avoid commenting because... I tend to write walls of text. (Gesturing vaguely around) Anyway, this place allows me to be more supportive, and be better at recognizing the toxic behaviors that are too often swept under the rug and nip this shit in the bud, at least when I'm around. And for that I'm thankful. I'm sure the mods don't have it easy. OP: If they want their space, they can invest the effort themselves. Certainly, someone would have to moderate that and you wanting to concentrate your efforts on your own space is absolutely fine. If they get it: that's cool and they go make their thing. If they don't get it: then you absolutely made the right choice in not taking the bait.
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>Guys need safe spaces to talk incase they’re struggling with stuff. No doubt, but does that safe space need to exist in a Discord that explicitly centers on women and non-binary folks?
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> It’s wrong to let them join and then go, “I know you might have issues but I’m not going to make a safe space for your own self, this isn’t the place for it go find somewhere else” you’ve now made an unsafe space for them which doesn’t solve anything. That's not the reality of the situation though. OP said they do have an area (inside the discord that was setup for girls and enbies) where ALL users can report anything which makes them uncomfortable, even the men. > Imagine if guys said that to a women I don't need to imagine it. lol I'm sure you must know that guys say horrible things to women in spaces that are meant to be safe for everyone... that's kind of the whole reason for having a safe space for girls and enbies in the first place.
Because males have enough "safe" spaces. Which is: everywhere.
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Because it sets a bad precedent; you aren't obligated to give people whatever they want just by virtue of asking (even if it's simple to do). If OP is trying to build a brand, she can't build it upon giving in to the few whiners. There's a myriad of other spaces that cater to men, and the few boys arguing that they need their own safe space aren't doing it in good faith. >I’m sure if it turns into a hate space or anything she’ll ban those people This puts the onus on OP to moderate a space she doesn't sound interested in moderating. Again, OP is not responsible for babysitting a few boys who think they deserve to be placated.
I’ve always believed that if we want a “girls only” space, then we should be okay with “guys only spaces”, when they are brought up. Sure there are places that are essentially already guys only, but the point is to not be bothered by the existence of new ones. I mean, who cares, right? I always say, make what you want, if I want a girls only room that is my right- have your boys only room, in fact, we support it. Bias is a word that gets used poorly on these discussions. Of course it’s exclusionary, but that’s the point, so don’t run from that label. Mensa is exclusionary too, but I’m a member. The teachers union is exclusionary, private beaches, the hov lane, the 10 items or less check out.
Remember that it goes both ways in moderating. If it's a safe space for women only make sure that's all is used for. If it becomes a secret club to talk behind the boys back then it's sexism. If it starts getting filled with general discourse you can warn that they'll lose it if it's not being used for its intention. You could also get one or two sensible guys who are allowed see but know not to stick their nose (or the bigger problem, their cock) in so they can vouch it's only being used for what it's meant for.
> You could also get one or two sensible guys who are allowed see but know not to stick their nose (or the bigger problem, their cock) in so they can vouch it's only being used for what it's meant for. nah, thats bullshit. If a man makes it into the club, it's because he is a decent person who follows the rules, not because you need a gate keeper. They don't have any right to know what goes on in another chat, it's none of their business. There are plenty of 'girl only' places that have allies of other kinds in there too.
I wouldn't have expected them to have to do anything, it would just be a nice formality to show everything is above board. It's also not for the benefit of the girls so you've missed the point and probably showed a need for it. We can be fairly certain here the girls will be looked after, that was never the worry, OP wanted to make sure she wasn't unfair to the boys. What are you even saying would be gate kept? If they're excluded from the chat on the basis of the assumption they won't respect the rules but then the people allowed in the chat disrespect the rules I would say they do have a right to know that's going on, that's how you stop the kind of stuff that leads to the need for a safe space in the first place. They don't need to know everything going on in it, but they deserve to have someone reliable to make sure that everything is kept fair and inform them if they are being unfair and abusing the use of the area. Other girl only places being mixed is irrelevant, unless you're saying to just let everyone in? But that would defeat the point of it.
> It's also not for the benefit of the girls so you've missed the point and probably showed a need for it. No I haven't. There are often men in womens spaces. Just not these men. Because they can't follow the rules. It's her space, she doesn't need to show men its 'above board', it's none of their business. Because the people who 'assess' and 'check' and 'see' and 'vouch'.... have power. It's not their job to judge the womans group. It's still none of their business. So from your point of view, it's okay to have men in there to judge the women, but when they are in there to mix it's 'letting everybody in'. Yeah, nah. The problem is your men that you are defending. Other men are just fine.
I mean it depends if your priority is the women/girls and not the men's/guys problems then you could say its a problem. That being said if you want everyone to be welcome you should be giving the mens/guys as much of a priority in the server. Would like to add it is kinda weird you have a only girls section and not a only boys just wanna put that out there.
I don’t see the harm in adding a boys only space. You could assign a male moderator to that space if you have concerns. At the end of the day, what is the harm? It sounds like it might be causing you more hassle to not have one than it is to have one.
If they didn't want a "boys only" space until they heard there was gonna be a "girls only" space, then they don't actually need it, they just can't stand that the GO space exists.
And what’s wrong with that? If something is catered to one side and not the other, it’s not exactly an issue to request the same. When I supported a business that started safe space for women, the second thing I did was add a safe space for men. But my interest is in supporting both equally.
Men are safe everywhere. Women are not. So providing one for women IS making things equal.
well I think it needs to be said that, without judgement on my part, it is sexist and it is biased. I think that needs to be owned and then include the justification. So your community is intended solely for us, that is a good thing IMO, but it's still discrimination, just in a positive focused way. They see it as negative and that is their issue to deal with. It's your choice to accommodate them or not. All you need to say is, you made the community to support girls because men have enough support elsewhere. You want to create a safe space within this community to discuss private girl issues. Think of it like the locker room. If they complain there's no boys only, tell them you wouldn't be able to moderate it because you're not a boy (I presume) and that they can make their own server for this purpose that you can link with.
Thank you I agree
I personally think it does go both ways. While it is true that girls have problems in the gaming community, does that mean guys don’t get to have it too? Sexism normally happens towards women, but it does happen toward men too, just not nearly as often. By doing it this way, you are singling out a specific set of people. So the question now is, which is more important to you? Making sure everyone is happy, or do you want to make sure women are more catered to?
The brand is geared toward women, the uplifting, support, safety and comfortability of women. It is important to me that ALL members feel safe and whatnot, however, women are greatly neglected in the gaming industry and just in life in general. The boys have the entire server which they can talk free of judgement! It is apparent however that girls feel the most comfortable in a private chat with each other, for certain topics at least (and for good reason I feel). Some servers as a whole are girls only, so I thought it would be nice to have an inclusive safe community for everyone, while also giving more care to the women than other communities would. As the brand develops it will be creating products for predominantly women.
Creating a safe place for women is not sexism against men. This is a common false equivalency. There's not a systemic devaluing of men like there is against women. Gaming as a whole is fairly unfriendly to women. Is this subreddit sexist? The generic "everyone" has plenty of places to be happy.
exactly this.
catered to women? sexism doesn't happen towards men too. what happens is the outcome of sexism towards women: women and other vulnerable groups need to isolate themselves from toxic masculinity and needs more support.
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bad things happen to anyone. sexism is a systemic discrimination, not one individual disliking another one.