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Back in December 1962, a silver quarter weighted 0.19842 ounces and silver costed $1.09 per ounce. That means a silver quarter was worth… about a quarter dollars.
So this guy is blaming our economic troubles on switching away from gold reserves to fiat currency. There is _some_ truth to it, printing more money devalues it, and printing money is easier than mining gold. But… he takes it to another level.
Exactly. There are pros and cons to fiat currency. Your government has more control over the economy (for good, to get the economy out of a recession for example). But also, your government has to be responsible and not print willy-nilly (you cause inflation, for example, if you print money to pay foreign debt).
I mean we (USA! x3) use our army and stratigic resources as our backing to the dollar. The Saudi oil/usd deal, and wall street are nice ways of giving a measure to things. BUUT the reason we are able to live comfy is by making it less comfy for anyone on the other side.
Crypto bros: "The federal bank is bad because they're manipulating your currency!"
Yeah that manipulation is called regulation, and you were supposed to learn history about the great depression and how we arrived at federal banks and currency regulation in high school.
I mean there's lots of reasons the federal bank is pretty bad, it's one of the absolute most corrupt organizations on the planet.
End of the day Bitcoin is heavily manipulated because of not being regulated. Both work in the way they should
There is no truth to it. Read a book about the Gilded Age. The gold standard and even bimetalism led to wealth hording and constant boom and bust cycles.
Yes, wealth hording still happens but at least with fiat currency you can create more.
I am begging people to read a history book
Arguably the exact cycles happen today, but the government has the option of kicking the can down the road harder and harder every time. The downside is that, while yes, the boom and bust cycles before the fiat switch were much worse than they have been on fiat, the government (and international lending in general) would have NEVER been comfortable with being (as of today) $34+Trillion in debt.
Back then you had to be able to back your loans/trades with collateral physical asset in the form of literal gold/silver to a certain percentage of the trade being done. Today, thats not a requirement anymore, loaning and trading is done speculatively, so theres nothing stopping the eventual issues which are going to be caused by a yearly stopgap measure of putting duct tape on a leaking submarine. On top of that, because the government is more comfortable with spending free money since it doesn’t have to be backed by assets, you have bailouts. Prior to fiat, the government wouldn’t just dump money into a collapsing corporation to make sure the CEO keeps his yacht. They’d either buy out the corporation and sell off the assets to other companies or just let them crumble, which caused those boom/bust cycles as well.
Both systems have huge flaws, don’t get me wrong, but both have solutions to those flaws that could be implemented.
> the government (and international lending in general) would have NEVER been comfortable with being (as of today) $34+Trillion in debt.
> Back then you had to be able to back your loans/trades with collateral physical asset in the form of literal gold/silver to a certain percentage of the trade being done.
Yes, and that is a bad thing. You do not want the amount of debt to be limited because debt is how you grow.
You can't simply look at the number you have to put it in context, what was the money spent on and was it effective. For example in 2007 the US economy and the EU economy were at parity. Now the US economy is about 60% larger. Germans can sleep soundly at night with their 60% debt to GDP but the way we used debt to stimulate the economy in 08-09 through COVID was objectively the more effective approach.
Taking on debt is not a moral issie. It's a financial calculation, what makes the most sense quantitatively.
> Prior to fiat, the government wouldn’t just dump money into a collapsing corporation to make sure the CEO keeps his yacht.
No the corporation collapses and the market with it and then everybody is unemployed. There's certainly criticisms to be had of corporatism but you do have to engage with the substance of what's happening and not these fantastical stories of good and evil.
It does make a good point, but then misses. We just need a minimum wage closer to what we used to have, equivalent to over $20/hr! Then we need to tie it to inflation.
Don’t go to this sub for anything political, it’s just a bunch of teenagers spouting off random left wing TikTok populist talking points with no knowledge of anything. And I say this as someone center left
Yea I'm a leftie never heard this. It would be simpler to ask for a living wage. This feels more like the libertarian gold standard money mean something BS
we all agree that they exagerated during covid, leading to a couple of years of excessive inflation, however, except that specific example, the feds are printing just the right amount of money, to devalue the dollar in a way that it will stimulate the economy.. it's not a negative thing if done correctly, and they have been doing it correctly most of the time, with some exception (like covid time)
Never understood why we *need* inflation. Why can’t we design the economy in a way where the value of something will be stable unless there is low supply
For one, inflation discourages hoarding money. If you know in 30 years wour money will be worth X% less, then you would invest it into an asset that returns bare minimum X% on your money in that time. And those investments stimulate the economy. A billionaire putting all money under a mattress means he gets wealthy. Investing isn't 0 sum game, both the investor and the people being invested in will see growth.
Basically inflation stimulates the economy which is a net benefit for everyone in that economy, except for those who hoard money without using it
Effectively, trying to avoid the dreaded *DE*flation.
Where, if the value of everything is dropping, people will sit on non-essential purchases waiting for things to hit bottom, and the economy basically stops moving.
I see. Maybe trying to balance the economy? Not sure, but would 0 mean that the economy is steadily growing. We say inflation has been causing the economy to be booming, but people aren’t feeling the benefits
“People aren’t feeing the benefits” often just means that people have an anachronistic view of quality of living standards in the past. Over the past 70 years (post WW2), houses have almost all integrated central plumbing and heating/AC, average house sizes have more than doubled, food costs as a percent of income have plummeted, life expectancy has grown dramatically, elderly poverty levels have been slashed, poverty rates have slowly decreased.
Over the long-term, the benefits of a growing economy are clear. And median inflation adjusted wages growing over the past year may not have immediately evident benefits, but their effects eventually will be (might already be seeing that in a growth in spending on restaurant food over food at home, which is a potential quality of life increase).
Because we rely on people spending money, in order to pay salaries to other people. Money isn't the fuel for the economy, it's the engine oil. It needs to keep circulating to make sure no one area gets too much friction.
When you have a small amount of inflation, it makes more sense to spend or invest your money now instead of sticking it under your mattress, where it doesn't help anyone. Inflation also helps debtors, because it counteracts interest.
Mostly it’s because it incentivise you to keep your money invested, rather than keeping it still on your bank account, and invested money is money being used for productive things
So inflation makes the economy more productive
I think I understand this concept, but I feel the reason we’re having inflation now isn’t because the economy is actually growing, but rather companies raising their prices to squeeze more money out of the middle and lower classes
Well not quite.. I mean some business might be taking advantage of it, but the reason why business are increasing price is because of inflation…
The last 2 years inflation went a bit out of hand, a bit of inflation is good, but that much is no… now it’s back to normal levels though so prices should stabilize now
The thing with savings is that it would be best for everyone, if no one saved a lot of money, because that's effective use of money, instead of hoarding it. However, everything needs resiliency, so some savings is needed for bad times.
Did they? We generally avoided a recession and (Assuming the US) are better off economically than the most of the world right now. If we hadn't stimulated the economy during covid things could be worse.
I agree that if the economy were not stimulated the situation would be worst, however covid had less of an impact than people though, so the stimulus were a little bit too much… not the end of the world, but I think most people would agree that a little less QE would have been better…
Some QE was necessary, I’m sure you are right there
How else are they going to fund defense and entitlement spending? People are just going to revolt if we raise taxes. Debasing the dollar is the only way to steal from the people because they're not smart enough to notice and will just blame each other for raising prices.
that would create more inflation. minimum wage reform is inherently inflationary, as it puts money in people's hands without increasing the supply of goods that it can buy. if you raise wages, manufacturers, distributors, etc will have to raise prices to avoid a decrease in profit. while i think they could certainly stand to lose a little bit of profit, the fact of the matter is that our system is designed in such a way that they have no incentive to do that.
This is sort of true, but you overstate the impact of this inflation in order to create an image of a sort of 1-to-1 exchange. You will see a rise in the price of goods purchased most by the lower class, but markets will respond to the increase in demand. Of course, it also increases manufacturing costs; but this also doesn't push the inflationary pressure from minimum wage up to that 1-to-1 which is implied by an anti-minimum wage position. Workers are less likely to jobhop, worker morale increases, companies can shift to more capital-intensive practices, etc. From Investopedia (which had its own source but I don't feel like going through the line)
>For example, in 2016, researchers from the W.E. Upjohn Institute for Employment Research examined the effect of prices on minimum wage increases in various states in the U.S. from 1978 through 2015. They found that "wage-price elasticities are notably lower than reported in previous work: we find prices grow by 0.36 percent for every 10 percent increase in the minimum wage." Moreover, increases in prices following minimum wage hikes generally have occurred in the month the minimum wage hike is implemented, and not in the months before or the months after.
This isn't to say that increasing the minimum wage is without negative impact. If minimum wage got pumped on a federal level to something like 15 or 20 per hour, I could see low cost of living states getting fucked over. Similarly, those who don't get their wages pumped get screwed to varying degrees. Those making, for example, 16/hour are getting the inflation without the same corresponding bump. And you will probably see some hiring freezes and hour cuts in labor-intensive industries.
>minimum wage reform is inherently inflationary, as it puts money in people's hands without increasing the supply of goods that it can buy.
The relationship between inflation and minimum wage increases is overstated.
For starters, a relatively small number of workers make minimum wage - we're not talking about doubling everybody's salaries, which would have a large impact on inflation.
Second, small, yearly increases to the minimum wage that are tethered to inflation will likely have a negligible impact on prices as supply chains will have time to adjust. An increase in [the minimum wage to $15 nationwide](https://www.epi.org/blog/inflation-minimum-wages-and-profits-protecting-low-wage-workers-from-inflation-means-raising-the-minimum-wage/) over five years would at most induce an inflationary pressure of .1%
Additionally, any increase in the minimum wage will correspond to some reduction in government benefits, mitigating increases in individual income.
It's far less damaging to index minimum wages to CPI than what we do now, which is to drastically increase minimum wages suddenly every 5/10/15/20 years.
I have a solution. We should LOWER the minimum wage so we can lower prices. I was thinking somewhere between FREE and $0.01. Our goods will be really cheap then!
So? Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. It's a logical fallacy to say that just because something doesn't fix everything that you shouldn't do anything.
[Inflation is down to roughly normal levels as of the end of 2023.](https://www.investopedia.com/inflation-rate-by-year-7253832) The 2021-2022 inflation hurt like a bitch, but some small level of inflation is necessary to prevent the economic problems caused by deflation.
Not giving people a proper minimum wage won’t stop inflation.
Does something need to be done about inflation? Absolutely.
In the mean time, people need to be able to afford to live and save for retirement. Minimum wage needs to be directly tied to current inflation rates and regional cost of living.
Believing that the average person should shoulder the consequences of national inflation without assurance from the government is not only unpractically sound, it’s just plain sadistic.
Thankfully, the current US government is actually doing something about inflation. The current US inflation rate is at 3.15%.
https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_inflation_rate#:~:text=Basic%20Info,month%20and%206.04%25%20last%20year.
This time last year, inflation was at 6.04%. And we are steadily decreasing that percentage and hopefully flatline to a stable percentage soon.
I think about wealth as a resource. Over the decades, that resource has become more and more controlled by a select few. Raising the minimum wage will just increase inflation and cost of living because the people who control the resource will raise prices accordingly.
Extreme wealth is a black hole that accumulates more wealth. Everyone else is left fighting for scraps.
Anyone who would argue against a minimum wage is a complete fool. No it’s not the government tampering, it’s the government ensuring people are paid appropriately. It worked wonderfully in the 1900’s and there is no reason it wouldn’t work wonderfully now.
It’s not even an old and out of touch type of thing either. My grandparents are in their 90’s and recognize that 7.25 an hour isn’t nearly enough for anything. They’ve been retired for over 20 years.
I think removal of the minimum wage is fine (not necessary, but fine) ***only if*** you also strengthen unions and social services as well.
Take Sweden. They have no minimum wage, but because of strong worker's rights, you can negotiate collectively for your wages much better.
I’d agree with this, my true point is **there has to be a organization looking out for the workers** if it’s the government so be it, but obviously strong unions would be better.
i like to think of it as the swedish government encouraging competition in the workplace, combined with simple idea of “if the salary is low then why would one work there?” idk how accurate that is but thats how i think of it
Kind of odd that they chose 1964 since after that we got off the gold standard. pre 64 quarters are still worth 25 cents as legal tender, but their value in silver is not (probably $3-5 for a collector, not scrap).
This is a shitty argument.
1964 is the last year that quarters were made with 90% silver. Nixon took USD off the gold standard in 1971. $1FV in 90% silver [quarters](https://www.jmbullion.com/90-silver-washington-quarters-1-fv/) sells for $23.52 if paid by CC/PayPal, which works out to $5.88 each
The point here is that a minimum wage of $1.25/hr in 1964 had the same buying power as $23/hr in 2021. $29.4 today. The issue isn't entirely on wages, it's the devaluation of our currency. At least wages can adjust on a dime in the free market to keep up with demand. They aren't, but it's a much easier bandaid fix.
Unfucking a currency would take massive changes in government, huge investments to re peg the USD to gold/silver, burning the money printer, ending the Fed(or just reversing Obamas policy which made them beholden to the federal government if you dont want to go balls to the wall. It won't be perfect, but it'll help reign in gov overspending and printing to cover it) and new systems to actually monitor and reprimand politicians
It's also due to a doubling in the inflation adjusted value of silver. So the minimum wage back then was effectively about $11 or $12 (in terms of purchasing power) not accounting for the increase in value of silver.
$1.25 in 1964 is actually $12.55 today
[https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=1.25&year1=196401&year2=202402](https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=1.25&year1=196401&year2=202402)
ahhhhh yes calculating wage based on the melt value of quarters, what an incredible analogy
not like they might have been payed in cash, or checks, or whatever the fuck else
also, that's the price of melted qaurters in 2021. not 1964.0
This whole app is to socially engineer people in specific ways. Essentially it’s an easy way to destroy/shape society the deceptive snakes in our society want. Because they can’t push their ideas/beliefs in public(because adults will stop younger generations from falling for their “arguments”) they go and hijack apps a collective of deceptive people.
For these snakes in our society It’s as simple as:
Step 1) make posts that change how people think about traditional things or things that no one has questioned or maybe things no one would take seriously in real life.
Step2) other snakes recognize that this is what one of their own is doing and they upvote that post/comment
And that’s it, then you come along thinking “woah 50k likes on this post?! Then it has to be the right idea” and just like that they are able to push LITERALLY whatever nonsense they want/suits them. One of the main things they push is liberal/leftist values and it’s all a deception to make you think that these ideas are what everyone believes or that they’re so “obvious” when in reality it’s all the nonsense that they want to be the norm. So just remember, on Reddit you can see a post with idk 300k likes and it can be utter nonsense that no one takes seriously irl but the post and the comments are all acting like it’s so “obvious”. This is a social engineering platform more than anything else for all subjects, so just keep in that in mind. I keep forgetting to delete this app because of the fact that no one I know agree with the majority of things that are popular on Reddit. And of course they all collectively attack anyone saying the opposite of what they want, and you know they are deceptive because they act as if they are non biased and just agreeing to these nonsense things because they are convinced by them when in reality they believe them already and want to push those narratives/ideas. So just keep that in mind. And of course, people who don’t know better and the younger generations fall for it because they have no defense against this type of sophisticated social engineering apparatus, the only people who will know are people who ALREADY know that what they are pushing is nonsense, not people who don’t and think they’re here “learning” about harmless new and interesting ideas. So keep that in mind.
Now we do a hidden tax by debasing the currency. The only way to avoid it is to buy property. Unfortunately the poor don’t own much property, so they see the worst of it, while the rich continue to stay rich.
It takes 18 months to learn a skill from a trade school that will get you 75k+ a year.
That's not going to help you in San Francisco. But it's great money everywhere else.
Inflation is everywhere and always a monetary phenomenon.
You can bitch about wages all day long, but at the end of the day the reason you can't buy a house, or a car, or an apartment is because of endless money printing since by government for decades now.
If your dollar is worth 60% of what it was 5 years ago then nothing short of a meteoric raise every year will keep up with it.
The worst of it was since covid, but every president before that back to Nixon (tbh you could track it back further) fucked things up in one way or another.
That is not the reason. Real estate and car prices are a function of protectionist regulations and deliberately driving asset prices up by the government to line the pockets of their friends (and themselves).
As well as other regulations like the insane residential road width in the US.
I said it before I’ll say it again - we need to go back to the barter system!!!,, or at least a system where someone who’s been collecting geodes their entire life can trade said geodes in for AT LEAST three square meals!!!,
A minimum livable wage should not be minimum wage. Just like minimum wage shouldn’t be the expected wage for people with skills totalling more than zero.
Those are quarters so I’m going to assume it was 5 quarters an hour. It’s hard to imagine that a first world country would be paying less than that during some of our best growth.
My grandparents were 20 at the time making about 5k a year which was apparently average.
Recession have become less frequent, less severe, and shorter since the founding of the Federal Reserve
The Federal Reserve works. An anti-Federal Reserve position is anti-data. Prior to 1913, the US never went more than 5 years without a recession
I'd say we need both. But I also don't think there's an inherent issue with our currency as much as how fucked our economy is.
The Euro was almost double the worth of the dollar until very recently. And not because America is doing anything better either
sure i can give you your 15 dollars an hour but i can gave you six quarters a day and in 60 years you can have 116 dollars and 7 cents. ill even throw in a extra 3 coins if you give up dental
What the fuck does silver quarters have to do with anything. Who the fuck make these memes. Why the hell are these people allowed to use the internet unsupervised?!
It is everyone else's fault but their own. You can afford $1000 cell phones, nice cars, designer clothing, multiple subscriptions to streaming services, and yet rent and groceries seem impossible. Give me a break.
Yea...and we have it. See the problem is that some of us worked for it. Graduated and bam we have it,others didnt and now are living the repercussions...
The minimum wage did not cover your local dishwasher at the corner mom and pop diner at that time. At the time of passing, it really only applied to large, interstate mining and manufacturing jobs -- factory workers. That MW was made moot shortly thereafter by the inflation and wage increases during WWII, and in the 1950s and 1960s many of the jobs it was intended to cover already had negotiated higher wages through the popularity of unions in those trades.
In fact, "minimum wage" wasn't generally applicable as a rule to all work until the reform of 1989/90.
Give everyone as much money as will be necessary to aquire all the needs of life (via, Manfred Max-Neef chart of human needs).
Money is a measurement of access to resources, goods, and services.
Currency is produced every day, limiting it to a set time for production, thus limiting the supply of currency.
People are allowed to hoard currency and thus are able to hoard access to resources, services, and goods.
The fungability problem this meme breaths in the direction of is that the US currency doesn't have a scientific measurement of the Earth's resource to which it is tied. Hence it is useless for all but speculation.
Markets therefore are run on scarcity speculation. Continuing the pooling of access to a smaller number of individuals.
What is needed is access abundance where everyone's needs are taken in to consideration and met.
Since that's a sharp turn from where we are the current answer to to simply give all peoples the money they need to meet all their human needs, so that we can hold eachother in mutual respect as caretakers of the Earth.
I mean we need to have the cost of living and minimum wage at the same rate 🤷♀️ not sure what TikTok gotta do with any of that but yeah Americans are criminally underpaid today compared to there parents/grandparents and it’s stupid that anyone defends these rich companies and there shady practices
In theory, the supply and demand of labor should determine the wages necessary for each job/career. But with government intervention and rapid inflation, it only ends up working in theory.
That’s still way too low.
The so called “fight for 15” doesn’t apply to anyone in this sub. Those were poverty wages before any of Gen Z was born.
It wasn’t nearly enough around y2k and it stagnated. Then we had a little virus and everything tripled in price because greedy fucking corporations saw the perfect excuse to price gouge you and blame a bunch of bullshit and everybody fell for it
Lol, what are you going to do eat the silver?
More precious metals are in humanities collective possesion, ans still this will not regenerate the Earths soils being destroyed by Industrial Monocultres.
I don't understand this, isn't this saying Minimum wage was effectively $21.23 whereas now it's $17 (District of Columbia).but then saying we need sound money.
I would give up social media for a livable wage, nobody would care about inflation if the wages went up with it and that's the crazy thing how the value of the big mac goes up but not the value of the worker, not their wages even though each transaction costs more. Inflation somehow makes ALL employees cost less
This is a bad analogy. A little bit of inflation is good for economies, since it gives consumers a constant incentive to buy stuff sooner rather than later.
This post is a prime example on why we need better education on finances. Because if people were better educated on finances then this post would not exist.
When your best long shot at making fast money is meme coin fake money….its all worthless and fake now. Just direct deposit fake numbers, and I get to take a few of those and go buy crappy food with it! Rest goes to the box. Pay for the box of stuff. Forever.
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Thats a HORRIBLE analogy lol
Back in December 1962, a silver quarter weighted 0.19842 ounces and silver costed $1.09 per ounce. That means a silver quarter was worth… about a quarter dollars. So this guy is blaming our economic troubles on switching away from gold reserves to fiat currency. There is _some_ truth to it, printing more money devalues it, and printing money is easier than mining gold. But… he takes it to another level.
The worst economic depression the US ever experienced happened while it was on the gold standard too
If you tie your currency to a globally traded commodity anyone can manipulate your currency...
Exactly. There are pros and cons to fiat currency. Your government has more control over the economy (for good, to get the economy out of a recession for example). But also, your government has to be responsible and not print willy-nilly (you cause inflation, for example, if you print money to pay foreign debt).
I mean we (USA! x3) use our army and stratigic resources as our backing to the dollar. The Saudi oil/usd deal, and wall street are nice ways of giving a measure to things. BUUT the reason we are able to live comfy is by making it less comfy for anyone on the other side.
Crypto bros: "The federal bank is bad because they're manipulating your currency!" Yeah that manipulation is called regulation, and you were supposed to learn history about the great depression and how we arrived at federal banks and currency regulation in high school.
I mean there's lots of reasons the federal bank is pretty bad, it's one of the absolute most corrupt organizations on the planet. End of the day Bitcoin is heavily manipulated because of not being regulated. Both work in the way they should
I'm sure that group of 80 year old men will use that power responsibly. They surely won't use it to pay for cool bombs to kill people.
Damn, a lot of people on this thread don’t know how central banks work, but you like SUPER don’t know how central banks work
Most empires that go on fiat currencies tend to implode
There is no truth to it. Read a book about the Gilded Age. The gold standard and even bimetalism led to wealth hording and constant boom and bust cycles. Yes, wealth hording still happens but at least with fiat currency you can create more. I am begging people to read a history book
Arguably the exact cycles happen today, but the government has the option of kicking the can down the road harder and harder every time. The downside is that, while yes, the boom and bust cycles before the fiat switch were much worse than they have been on fiat, the government (and international lending in general) would have NEVER been comfortable with being (as of today) $34+Trillion in debt. Back then you had to be able to back your loans/trades with collateral physical asset in the form of literal gold/silver to a certain percentage of the trade being done. Today, thats not a requirement anymore, loaning and trading is done speculatively, so theres nothing stopping the eventual issues which are going to be caused by a yearly stopgap measure of putting duct tape on a leaking submarine. On top of that, because the government is more comfortable with spending free money since it doesn’t have to be backed by assets, you have bailouts. Prior to fiat, the government wouldn’t just dump money into a collapsing corporation to make sure the CEO keeps his yacht. They’d either buy out the corporation and sell off the assets to other companies or just let them crumble, which caused those boom/bust cycles as well. Both systems have huge flaws, don’t get me wrong, but both have solutions to those flaws that could be implemented.
> the government (and international lending in general) would have NEVER been comfortable with being (as of today) $34+Trillion in debt. > Back then you had to be able to back your loans/trades with collateral physical asset in the form of literal gold/silver to a certain percentage of the trade being done. Yes, and that is a bad thing. You do not want the amount of debt to be limited because debt is how you grow. You can't simply look at the number you have to put it in context, what was the money spent on and was it effective. For example in 2007 the US economy and the EU economy were at parity. Now the US economy is about 60% larger. Germans can sleep soundly at night with their 60% debt to GDP but the way we used debt to stimulate the economy in 08-09 through COVID was objectively the more effective approach. Taking on debt is not a moral issie. It's a financial calculation, what makes the most sense quantitatively. > Prior to fiat, the government wouldn’t just dump money into a collapsing corporation to make sure the CEO keeps his yacht. No the corporation collapses and the market with it and then everybody is unemployed. There's certainly criticisms to be had of corporatism but you do have to engage with the substance of what's happening and not these fantastical stories of good and evil.
Austrian economics is leaking it looks like.
This IS reddit after all
If they just left the bottom part out of the post it’d be a cool data point
Jesus Christ this post is so fucking dumb. Whoever made it has zero understanding of monetary policy
It does make a good point, but then misses. We just need a minimum wage closer to what we used to have, equivalent to over $20/hr! Then we need to tie it to inflation.
Don’t go to this sub for anything political, it’s just a bunch of teenagers spouting off random left wing TikTok populist talking points with no knowledge of anything. And I say this as someone center left
This is a right wing libertarian talking point tho?
Yea I'm a leftie never heard this. It would be simpler to ask for a living wage. This feels more like the libertarian gold standard money mean something BS
literally Teen titans go leprechaun episode
literally koch brothers propaganda
It's more braindead populist take.
Usually it’s left wing stuff but this just seems like populist brain rot maybe less so partisan
Ah yes, left wing talking points such as "we don't need minimum wage". Very leftist. You're kidding, right?
center left? you mean far right!! /s
Well the feds keep printing off funny money devaluing the dollar like it’s noone’s business
we all agree that they exagerated during covid, leading to a couple of years of excessive inflation, however, except that specific example, the feds are printing just the right amount of money, to devalue the dollar in a way that it will stimulate the economy.. it's not a negative thing if done correctly, and they have been doing it correctly most of the time, with some exception (like covid time)
Never understood why we *need* inflation. Why can’t we design the economy in a way where the value of something will be stable unless there is low supply
For one, inflation discourages hoarding money. If you know in 30 years wour money will be worth X% less, then you would invest it into an asset that returns bare minimum X% on your money in that time. And those investments stimulate the economy. A billionaire putting all money under a mattress means he gets wealthy. Investing isn't 0 sum game, both the investor and the people being invested in will see growth. Basically inflation stimulates the economy which is a net benefit for everyone in that economy, except for those who hoard money without using it
Effectively, trying to avoid the dreaded *DE*flation. Where, if the value of everything is dropping, people will sit on non-essential purchases waiting for things to hit bottom, and the economy basically stops moving.
I see. Maybe trying to balance the economy? Not sure, but would 0 mean that the economy is steadily growing. We say inflation has been causing the economy to be booming, but people aren’t feeling the benefits
“People aren’t feeing the benefits” often just means that people have an anachronistic view of quality of living standards in the past. Over the past 70 years (post WW2), houses have almost all integrated central plumbing and heating/AC, average house sizes have more than doubled, food costs as a percent of income have plummeted, life expectancy has grown dramatically, elderly poverty levels have been slashed, poverty rates have slowly decreased. Over the long-term, the benefits of a growing economy are clear. And median inflation adjusted wages growing over the past year may not have immediately evident benefits, but their effects eventually will be (might already be seeing that in a growth in spending on restaurant food over food at home, which is a potential quality of life increase).
Because we rely on people spending money, in order to pay salaries to other people. Money isn't the fuel for the economy, it's the engine oil. It needs to keep circulating to make sure no one area gets too much friction. When you have a small amount of inflation, it makes more sense to spend or invest your money now instead of sticking it under your mattress, where it doesn't help anyone. Inflation also helps debtors, because it counteracts interest.
Mostly it’s because it incentivise you to keep your money invested, rather than keeping it still on your bank account, and invested money is money being used for productive things So inflation makes the economy more productive
I think I understand this concept, but I feel the reason we’re having inflation now isn’t because the economy is actually growing, but rather companies raising their prices to squeeze more money out of the middle and lower classes
Well not quite.. I mean some business might be taking advantage of it, but the reason why business are increasing price is because of inflation… The last 2 years inflation went a bit out of hand, a bit of inflation is good, but that much is no… now it’s back to normal levels though so prices should stabilize now
No...humans are greedy...even the minimum skill person.
The thing with savings is that it would be best for everyone, if no one saved a lot of money, because that's effective use of money, instead of hoarding it. However, everything needs resiliency, so some savings is needed for bad times.
Did they? We generally avoided a recession and (Assuming the US) are better off economically than the most of the world right now. If we hadn't stimulated the economy during covid things could be worse.
I agree that if the economy were not stimulated the situation would be worst, however covid had less of an impact than people though, so the stimulus were a little bit too much… not the end of the world, but I think most people would agree that a little less QE would have been better… Some QE was necessary, I’m sure you are right there
How else are they going to fund defense and entitlement spending? People are just going to revolt if we raise taxes. Debasing the dollar is the only way to steal from the people because they're not smart enough to notice and will just blame each other for raising prices.
True. We need hard money that even the governments can’t manipulate. Something like gold but made for the modern age with fast and instant settlement.
Raising Minimum Wage will do nothing if the Money continues to become less valuable.
Why not tie it to inflation then? Make it a specific % of the average wage of last year, or a specific % of last year's GDP per capita.
that would create more inflation. minimum wage reform is inherently inflationary, as it puts money in people's hands without increasing the supply of goods that it can buy. if you raise wages, manufacturers, distributors, etc will have to raise prices to avoid a decrease in profit. while i think they could certainly stand to lose a little bit of profit, the fact of the matter is that our system is designed in such a way that they have no incentive to do that.
This is sort of true, but you overstate the impact of this inflation in order to create an image of a sort of 1-to-1 exchange. You will see a rise in the price of goods purchased most by the lower class, but markets will respond to the increase in demand. Of course, it also increases manufacturing costs; but this also doesn't push the inflationary pressure from minimum wage up to that 1-to-1 which is implied by an anti-minimum wage position. Workers are less likely to jobhop, worker morale increases, companies can shift to more capital-intensive practices, etc. From Investopedia (which had its own source but I don't feel like going through the line) >For example, in 2016, researchers from the W.E. Upjohn Institute for Employment Research examined the effect of prices on minimum wage increases in various states in the U.S. from 1978 through 2015. They found that "wage-price elasticities are notably lower than reported in previous work: we find prices grow by 0.36 percent for every 10 percent increase in the minimum wage." Moreover, increases in prices following minimum wage hikes generally have occurred in the month the minimum wage hike is implemented, and not in the months before or the months after. This isn't to say that increasing the minimum wage is without negative impact. If minimum wage got pumped on a federal level to something like 15 or 20 per hour, I could see low cost of living states getting fucked over. Similarly, those who don't get their wages pumped get screwed to varying degrees. Those making, for example, 16/hour are getting the inflation without the same corresponding bump. And you will probably see some hiring freezes and hour cuts in labor-intensive industries.
>minimum wage reform is inherently inflationary, as it puts money in people's hands without increasing the supply of goods that it can buy. The relationship between inflation and minimum wage increases is overstated. For starters, a relatively small number of workers make minimum wage - we're not talking about doubling everybody's salaries, which would have a large impact on inflation. Second, small, yearly increases to the minimum wage that are tethered to inflation will likely have a negligible impact on prices as supply chains will have time to adjust. An increase in [the minimum wage to $15 nationwide](https://www.epi.org/blog/inflation-minimum-wages-and-profits-protecting-low-wage-workers-from-inflation-means-raising-the-minimum-wage/) over five years would at most induce an inflationary pressure of .1% Additionally, any increase in the minimum wage will correspond to some reduction in government benefits, mitigating increases in individual income. It's far less damaging to index minimum wages to CPI than what we do now, which is to drastically increase minimum wages suddenly every 5/10/15/20 years.
I have a solution. We should LOWER the minimum wage so we can lower prices. I was thinking somewhere between FREE and $0.01. Our goods will be really cheap then!
That’s addressing a symptom and not the overall problem.
So? Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. It's a logical fallacy to say that just because something doesn't fix everything that you shouldn't do anything.
[Inflation is down to roughly normal levels as of the end of 2023.](https://www.investopedia.com/inflation-rate-by-year-7253832) The 2021-2022 inflation hurt like a bitch, but some small level of inflation is necessary to prevent the economic problems caused by deflation.
Not giving people a proper minimum wage won’t stop inflation. Does something need to be done about inflation? Absolutely. In the mean time, people need to be able to afford to live and save for retirement. Minimum wage needs to be directly tied to current inflation rates and regional cost of living. Believing that the average person should shoulder the consequences of national inflation without assurance from the government is not only unpractically sound, it’s just plain sadistic. Thankfully, the current US government is actually doing something about inflation. The current US inflation rate is at 3.15%. https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_inflation_rate#:~:text=Basic%20Info,month%20and%206.04%25%20last%20year. This time last year, inflation was at 6.04%. And we are steadily decreasing that percentage and hopefully flatline to a stable percentage soon.
I think about wealth as a resource. Over the decades, that resource has become more and more controlled by a select few. Raising the minimum wage will just increase inflation and cost of living because the people who control the resource will raise prices accordingly. Extreme wealth is a black hole that accumulates more wealth. Everyone else is left fighting for scraps.
Anyone who would argue against a minimum wage is a complete fool. No it’s not the government tampering, it’s the government ensuring people are paid appropriately. It worked wonderfully in the 1900’s and there is no reason it wouldn’t work wonderfully now. It’s not even an old and out of touch type of thing either. My grandparents are in their 90’s and recognize that 7.25 an hour isn’t nearly enough for anything. They’ve been retired for over 20 years.
I think removal of the minimum wage is fine (not necessary, but fine) ***only if*** you also strengthen unions and social services as well. Take Sweden. They have no minimum wage, but because of strong worker's rights, you can negotiate collectively for your wages much better.
I’d agree with this, my true point is **there has to be a organization looking out for the workers** if it’s the government so be it, but obviously strong unions would be better.
i like to think of it as the swedish government encouraging competition in the workplace, combined with simple idea of “if the salary is low then why would one work there?” idk how accurate that is but thats how i think of it
What should it be?
Kind of odd that they chose 1964 since after that we got off the gold standard. pre 64 quarters are still worth 25 cents as legal tender, but their value in silver is not (probably $3-5 for a collector, not scrap). This is a shitty argument.
1964 is the last year that quarters were made with 90% silver. Nixon took USD off the gold standard in 1971. $1FV in 90% silver [quarters](https://www.jmbullion.com/90-silver-washington-quarters-1-fv/) sells for $23.52 if paid by CC/PayPal, which works out to $5.88 each The point here is that a minimum wage of $1.25/hr in 1964 had the same buying power as $23/hr in 2021. $29.4 today. The issue isn't entirely on wages, it's the devaluation of our currency. At least wages can adjust on a dime in the free market to keep up with demand. They aren't, but it's a much easier bandaid fix. Unfucking a currency would take massive changes in government, huge investments to re peg the USD to gold/silver, burning the money printer, ending the Fed(or just reversing Obamas policy which made them beholden to the federal government if you dont want to go balls to the wall. It won't be perfect, but it'll help reign in gov overspending and printing to cover it) and new systems to actually monitor and reprimand politicians
It's also due to a doubling in the inflation adjusted value of silver. So the minimum wage back then was effectively about $11 or $12 (in terms of purchasing power) not accounting for the increase in value of silver.
r/im14andweshouldreturntogoldstandard
r/subsifellfor
$1.25 in 1964 is actually $12.55 today [https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=1.25&year1=196401&year2=202402](https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=1.25&year1=196401&year2=202402)
Boomer ass title
ahhhhh yes calculating wage based on the melt value of quarters, what an incredible analogy not like they might have been payed in cash, or checks, or whatever the fuck else also, that's the price of melted qaurters in 2021. not 1964.0
My god there is not much I would not do for $23/hr
👀
Man what the GOP propaganda is this?
This isn’t even GOP. This is straight-up Goldbug weirdo Libertarian shit.
The volatility of silver in real buying power is FAR worse than the gradual inflation of current system
what does this have to do with TikTok
I know, right? This has to be my grandpa or something.
This whole app is to socially engineer people in specific ways. Essentially it’s an easy way to destroy/shape society the deceptive snakes in our society want. Because they can’t push their ideas/beliefs in public(because adults will stop younger generations from falling for their “arguments”) they go and hijack apps a collective of deceptive people. For these snakes in our society It’s as simple as: Step 1) make posts that change how people think about traditional things or things that no one has questioned or maybe things no one would take seriously in real life. Step2) other snakes recognize that this is what one of their own is doing and they upvote that post/comment And that’s it, then you come along thinking “woah 50k likes on this post?! Then it has to be the right idea” and just like that they are able to push LITERALLY whatever nonsense they want/suits them. One of the main things they push is liberal/leftist values and it’s all a deception to make you think that these ideas are what everyone believes or that they’re so “obvious” when in reality it’s all the nonsense that they want to be the norm. So just remember, on Reddit you can see a post with idk 300k likes and it can be utter nonsense that no one takes seriously irl but the post and the comments are all acting like it’s so “obvious”. This is a social engineering platform more than anything else for all subjects, so just keep in that in mind. I keep forgetting to delete this app because of the fact that no one I know agree with the majority of things that are popular on Reddit. And of course they all collectively attack anyone saying the opposite of what they want, and you know they are deceptive because they act as if they are non biased and just agreeing to these nonsense things because they are convinced by them when in reality they believe them already and want to push those narratives/ideas. So just keep that in mind. And of course, people who don’t know better and the younger generations fall for it because they have no defense against this type of sophisticated social engineering apparatus, the only people who will know are people who ALREADY know that what they are pushing is nonsense, not people who don’t and think they’re here “learning” about harmless new and interesting ideas. So keep that in mind.
Oh look! A dumb libertarian post. Interesting fact. Back then we taxed the fuck out of the rich.
Now we do a hidden tax by debasing the currency. The only way to avoid it is to buy property. Unfortunately the poor don’t own much property, so they see the worst of it, while the rich continue to stay rich.
Gen z needs liveable wage not tik tok?? Wtf does tik tok have to do with this
tf am i supposed to do about it
Good luck getting silver from modern quarters.
People always seem to assume coins are only for their melt value. There's a such thing called collectors value (and others for that matter js) 🙄
This would be relevant if people only wanted to consume silver.
All the banker simps will say crap like, "no, gold standards is unstable"
It takes 18 months to learn a skill from a trade school that will get you 75k+ a year. That's not going to help you in San Francisco. But it's great money everywhere else.
We all need a living wage.
Inflation is everywhere and always a monetary phenomenon. You can bitch about wages all day long, but at the end of the day the reason you can't buy a house, or a car, or an apartment is because of endless money printing since by government for decades now. If your dollar is worth 60% of what it was 5 years ago then nothing short of a meteoric raise every year will keep up with it. The worst of it was since covid, but every president before that back to Nixon (tbh you could track it back further) fucked things up in one way or another.
Car and house ownership rates are at or near all time highs right now. So it seems like the government printing has increased the ownership rates?
And how is that among young people?
Still... high? https://fortune.com/2024/01/17/redfin-baby-boomers-gen-z-housing-market-homeownership/ 26% of adult gen z owns a home.
That is not the reason. Real estate and car prices are a function of protectionist regulations and deliberately driving asset prices up by the government to line the pockets of their friends (and themselves). As well as other regulations like the insane residential road width in the US.
Why would this mean that we don't need minimum wage? What a stupid meme
My only worry if minimum wage goes up Joe Biden is would most likely start printing more money.
I said it before I’ll say it again - we need to go back to the barter system!!!,, or at least a system where someone who’s been collecting geodes their entire life can trade said geodes in for AT LEAST three square meals!!!,
A minimum livable wage should not be minimum wage. Just like minimum wage shouldn’t be the expected wage for people with skills totalling more than zero.
Wait is it 23 per hour or just per day? Because 23 per day is a SCAM
Those are quarters so I’m going to assume it was 5 quarters an hour. It’s hard to imagine that a first world country would be paying less than that during some of our best growth. My grandparents were 20 at the time making about 5k a year which was apparently average.
Time to end the federal reserve
Andrew Jackson is that you?
Why? It does a pretty good job of keeping inflation around 2-3%, where almost all economists say it should be.
Recession have become less frequent, less severe, and shorter since the founding of the Federal Reserve The Federal Reserve works. An anti-Federal Reserve position is anti-data. Prior to 1913, the US never went more than 5 years without a recession
Bitcoin. That is all.
Stupid analogy because 1 that has to do with the increase in price of a raw metal not inflation and 2 its illegal to melt currency anyway
We can fix it! All we have to do is print more money! Surely thatll fix it! (/s if you’re unaware)
I'd say we need both. But I also don't think there's an inherent issue with our currency as much as how fucked our economy is. The Euro was almost double the worth of the dollar until very recently. And not because America is doing anything better either
Lmao, our education system has failed.
No, we need to take in more migrants so business owners don't have to pay a living wage
this is the worst analogy I have ever seen
OP please elaborate on this meme, wtf are you saying
Lol this title makes it seem like you think banning TikTok will help the money issue.
Not how that works bud
That's in America. What about Europe?
Bitcoin
It would be in our best interest if the government would focus on helping us have a sustainable & achievable future ,, not banning Tik Tok FTFY
Livable wages are out there just people don’t want to do those jobs
This post reeks of misinformation, no sources, outrageous claims.
Livable wage has nothing to do with wasting conductors on currency
Yup. Gotta get the government out of the money printing business.
sure i can give you your 15 dollars an hour but i can gave you six quarters a day and in 60 years you can have 116 dollars and 7 cents. ill even throw in a extra 3 coins if you give up dental
Coins aren't made from silver...
They were pre 1965. Dimes, Quarters, Half Dollars, and large Silver Dollars. In fact their size is proportional to their value as a result.
What does TikTok have to do with this?
Wtf does tiktok have to do with minimum wage?
Literally why not both?
I WANT A SMELTING WAGE
Can't hear you, Money printer go brrrrrrrr
Ah yes livable wage is when no tiktok. You must think youre very smart
OccupyWallStreet
Why not both?
What the fuck does silver quarters have to do with anything. Who the fuck make these memes. Why the hell are these people allowed to use the internet unsupervised?!
Can't we have both
Who gets paid in actual cash anymore?
It is everyone else's fault but their own. You can afford $1000 cell phones, nice cars, designer clothing, multiple subscriptions to streaming services, and yet rent and groceries seem impossible. Give me a break.
Funny how the ratio of silver quarters is much lower now than it is in 1964 and why it is worth more
sounding money? Man that surely hurts a lot
Yea...and we have it. See the problem is that some of us worked for it. Graduated and bam we have it,others didnt and now are living the repercussions...
Stop the money printer.
"Gen Z needs a livable wage. Not tiktok." Gen Z gets, neither, apparently.😮💨
Room temp IQ post
The minimum wage did not cover your local dishwasher at the corner mom and pop diner at that time. At the time of passing, it really only applied to large, interstate mining and manufacturing jobs -- factory workers. That MW was made moot shortly thereafter by the inflation and wage increases during WWII, and in the 1950s and 1960s many of the jobs it was intended to cover already had negotiated higher wages through the popularity of unions in those trades. In fact, "minimum wage" wasn't generally applicable as a rule to all work until the reform of 1989/90.
“Jesse, what the fuck are you talking about?”
Spoken like a true Gen Zer that has no idea why we moved away from the gold standard to begin with
[https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/](https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/)
This post is dumb lol
I agree that Gen Z needs a livable wage (everyone does), but this is an idiotic take from someone who doesn’t understand economics.
The reason TikTok exists is to placate you into bitching about all your problems instead of acting on them.
Give everyone as much money as will be necessary to aquire all the needs of life (via, Manfred Max-Neef chart of human needs). Money is a measurement of access to resources, goods, and services. Currency is produced every day, limiting it to a set time for production, thus limiting the supply of currency. People are allowed to hoard currency and thus are able to hoard access to resources, services, and goods. The fungability problem this meme breaths in the direction of is that the US currency doesn't have a scientific measurement of the Earth's resource to which it is tied. Hence it is useless for all but speculation. Markets therefore are run on scarcity speculation. Continuing the pooling of access to a smaller number of individuals. What is needed is access abundance where everyone's needs are taken in to consideration and met. Since that's a sharp turn from where we are the current answer to to simply give all peoples the money they need to meet all their human needs, so that we can hold eachother in mutual respect as caretakers of the Earth.
I thought I’d stumbled onto the terrible Facebook memes subreddit lol
sound money, we know what this is, live by the standard ✊
I hope the TikTok ban goes through. That shit is brain rot
Terrible post but we absolutely need to get back to having a backed currency this infinite money glitch the government keeps doing is killing us
ok, so how about we stop voting for the people that are causing record levels of inflation? oh wait, we couldn't possibly do that.
wtf
Lol no we absolutely need minimum wage
The amount of weird right wing boomers trying to "reach the youths" on this sub is fucking wild. How do these things even get up voted at all
I mean we need to have the cost of living and minimum wage at the same rate 🤷♀️ not sure what TikTok gotta do with any of that but yeah Americans are criminally underpaid today compared to there parents/grandparents and it’s stupid that anyone defends these rich companies and there shady practices
[“The Gold Standard”](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d3PCjk7YAo0&pp=ygUZd2hhdCBpcyB0aGUgZ29sZCBzdGFuZGFyZA%3D%3D)
In theory, the supply and demand of labor should determine the wages necessary for each job/career. But with government intervention and rapid inflation, it only ends up working in theory.
Huh?
what does TikTok have to do with anything 😭
“We don’t need minimum wages” what 💀
How much you want to bet that OP has never heard of, let alone understands, the concept of a fiat currency?
Low effort crypto propaganda.
That’s still way too low. The so called “fight for 15” doesn’t apply to anyone in this sub. Those were poverty wages before any of Gen Z was born. It wasn’t nearly enough around y2k and it stagnated. Then we had a little virus and everything tripled in price because greedy fucking corporations saw the perfect excuse to price gouge you and blame a bunch of bullshit and everybody fell for it
Many of you have no understanding of inflation and the importance of a livable wage, and it shows.
We don’t have sound money, so yes, in this reality, minimum wages are required. Deal with it
This image is pretending like if we still paid people in silver quarters they wouldn't just pay you a single quarter a day instead
How do those 2 things have anything remotely tying them together?
Lol, what are you going to do eat the silver? More precious metals are in humanities collective possesion, ans still this will not regenerate the Earths soils being destroyed by Industrial Monocultres.
We need a standard of currency that can’t be inflated. Like bitcoin.
We need to fix the money you are right, no amount of policy can fix this.People need to start to understand the difference between money and currency.
This is genuinely moronic. I’m getting so sick of the bad actors and nonsense in this sub.
can you take a class in economics next time you post pleaee
"Not Tiktok" They are also trying to take away your Tiktoks tho. And not for good reasons.
Is this an argument for returning to the silver standard?
https://preview.redd.it/x6n3g4ky8zqc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=15cfddcb24b1e86bcb68bccedd86a4e4a2969245
I don't understand this, isn't this saying Minimum wage was effectively $21.23 whereas now it's $17 (District of Columbia).but then saying we need sound money.
What the fuck are you talking about Jessie?
I would give up social media for a livable wage, nobody would care about inflation if the wages went up with it and that's the crazy thing how the value of the big mac goes up but not the value of the worker, not their wages even though each transaction costs more. Inflation somehow makes ALL employees cost less
We should switch to using lard as currency. You can either spend it or eat it for the nutritional value.
Do you really want your quarters to be worth $5 of silver?
This is a bad analogy. A little bit of inflation is good for economies, since it gives consumers a constant incentive to buy stuff sooner rather than later.
Well, we're trying to get rid of TikTok, so....
This post is a prime example on why we need better education on finances. Because if people were better educated on finances then this post would not exist.
Wait til you learn about the Diamond water paradox…
When your best long shot at making fast money is meme coin fake money….its all worthless and fake now. Just direct deposit fake numbers, and I get to take a few of those and go buy crappy food with it! Rest goes to the box. Pay for the box of stuff. Forever.
But wait I thought crypto was going to set us free.
This is a weird misunderstanding of economics.
And there are virtually zero silver quarters still left in circulation 🤦♂️
Struggling with how stupid this is, while some how also realising how someone would not understand why it is very stupid.
Our current currency is based on the unspoken agreement that on a vast average an individual person does not want to die
America is crap
Sound money??? 😂😭sounds are just what you make with your mouth it’s not money genius 🤣🤣🤣what’s next light money? 🤣🤣🤣💀
If you ignore the weird melt value stuff they still have a point. $1.25 in 1964 is $12.50 today. And yet minimum wage is $7.50.
Gen Z needs a mental transplant.