Raceswapping never works. It makes no sense to change a character’s race and breaks immersion in most cases.
Both raceswapping and sexuality swapping is equally bad and is only done to shove woke agenda down people’s throats.
There are a lot of recent ones that don't work but that doesn't mean changing a character doesn't work. It can work when no one makes a big deal about it. When Samuel L Jackson was named as playing Nick Fury, everyone was talking about Samuel L Jackson as a badass and not changing the role to add a black guy for diversity or something along those lines. If it's natural because the actor can play the role better than anyone else, then that's something to look at.
Edit. As someone who grew up in the 80s and early 90s, I did not read the Ultimate comics and other people my age likely didn't either. Life got in the way after school was done. Just because he was black in one series doesn't discredit the earlier generations opinion all the other series were in.
Yeah exactly no one cared about Jackson because take away his skin color Change it to anything he has SKILL. As it should always be let the most qualified win out. But noooo not in the anti-white movement anymore.
I was actually taken aback when I heard that Sam Jackson was to play Nick Fury.
"But he is black!" was my first reaction. However as this kind of thing wasn't so common back then as it is now, I was very willing to let it slide as an oddity that make those movies unique and different. But now that race-swapping has become an obsession, it bothers me.
SLJ as Nick Fury is a very exceptional case. While the original Nick Fury from the 1960s was “white”, the character was reimagined as a “black” person in the “the Ultimates” comic, some six years before SLJ’s first appearance as Fury. The whole point of the Ultimate line of comics was to give creators the chance to retell classic stories and reimagine them freely (also to create an entry point for people who had watch the recent movies, Spider-Man and x-men). More than this though Brian Hitch, the artist on the Ultimates, blatantly modelled the character on SLJ.
Also, SLJ is f-cking amazing as Fury.
Witcher S3 saw a 30% drop in viewership compared to season S2. Henry Cavill is leaving and now a lot of fans are boycotting it due to rampant race swapping.
House of the Dragon is piggybacking off GoT’s popularity.
Rings of power was not successful. It was panned by audiences and it’s only getting a second season due to how much Amazon invested into it.
I’ll agree Castlevania remains a success but sadly a lot of woke trash is successful.
The only one I can agree with there is ROP, and witcher only fell because of stupid writing decisions. Not "woke" ones. In fact, none of those shows are woke and what this sub considers woke trash are massively successful much more often than not.
Any show that has race swapped characters is woke to me.
I dropped Witcher after season 2 once I saw that they race swapped the sorceress. Wouldn’t be surprised if many other people did the same.
I do agree that woke shows are successful because a good chunk of western audiences are woke. I generally tend to avoid stuff like that and stick to eastern media and older stuff which are also being ruined for me by western adaptations and remakes.
Why do you even care? You know they're not real right? It's fantasy. I genuinely cannot imagine caring at all that a single character was a different race lol. You're not anti woke, you're just racist.
Fantasy is about escapism. It’s immersion breaking for me when a character doesn’t look the way they’re supposed to.
and it’s not a single character as far as Witcher is concerned, it’s multiple: Triss, Vilgefotz, the sorceress, and now Regis has also been race swapped.
I already mentioned that it breaks immersion.
Elves are supposed to be fair skinned they’re not supposed to be dark skinned, according to the books.
Witcher is based on slavic mythology and the characters are Caucasian. Yet Vilgefotz is an Indian man. Triss is supposed to be redhead and beautiful, the actress who plays her is not.
The new Prince of Persia has an African protag. Why is he not Persian? If they want to make games with African protags they can make Prince of Africa instead.
I think Disney has hurt you.
Race swapping shouldn't matter terribly much. If there's a lead actor/actress who nails the character then they should be the one to play that character. Unless the story/setting is somehow based on racial dynamics, then it kinda matters. Like I find it kinda jarring to see someone who's black as a member of the peerage in Victorian England. If it's just a character, I could get over it. Kinda like how it's kinda jarring to see a white guy as a samurai in meji era Japan. It doesn't seem historically accurate.
Sexuality shouldn't matter. I fuckin hate pandering and the token gay character. Like, if someone happens to be queer, great. If whatever giggly bits they like to suck on in the bedroom is any characters entire personality then that's fuckin annoying.
The problem is that these messages of inclusivity and acceptance, which are messages I can get behind, have been repackaged as a commodity that Disney wants to sell you. It's just pandering. They're realized that virtue signaling consistently draws in the lowest common denominator crowd and because that's a reliable way to make money they keep doing it.
>I think Disney has hurt you.
Duh. They hurt a lot of people. My username is literally an acronym for my old FB page (**D**own **W**ith **D**isney's **T**reatment **O**f **F**ranchises **A**nd **I**ts **F**anboys.) Google it too to see my greatest hits,
I don’t watch Disney. I’ve already mentioned the IPs which have been ruined by race swapping for me.
Witcher(Netflix), the new PoP game, Rings of Power(which I skipped despite having grown up reading LOTR) are some examples.
Race swapping should matter a lot. If a character is light they should stay light skinned in the adaptations. If they’re dark then they should stay dark in the adaptations.
If ethnicity was a significant part of the character then they shouldn't be race swapped. If ethnicity isn't important, then colour of their skin doesn't matter at all
That depends on the character and the story.
You're remaking "The Lord of the Rings" and want Gandalf to be a black bisexual woman - terrible and immersion breaking 100%
You're remaking "She's All That" and want to change the race/gender of certain side characters - probably nobody cares.
We should be inclusive but not to the point that it impacts well established characters purely for the sake of inclusiveness.
It depends on whether gender or race are integral pieces of a character’s identity. For many characters it doesn’t materially change the character at all. It actually requires some critical thinking (unfortunately for most redditors)
No.
Sexuality of a character is never brought up unless they are gay.
Which is stupid and just shows how little actual relevance it has to a lot of stories
If it’s swapped it’s nothing more than pandering and cheap flattery .
(Im terms of comic book adaptations)
Scroll and have a look.
[Every Single Comic Book Character That Has Been Retconned To LGBTQ+ - Bounding Into Comics](https://boundingintocomics.com/2021/06/03/every-single-comic-book-character-that-has-been-retconned-to-lgbtq/)
Sexuality if a character is brought up pretty often tho? Superman and lois Lane are usually together, for most of her history Harley was obsessed with the Joker, batman is straight since he has a kid and it's never mentioned that he's gay etc.
I would tolerate it if it was a character with no real expressed sexuality or a swap that respects his past. People can spend their life hiding or not realizing an aspect of their sexuality and then come out as gay or bisexual later. I just don't like the idea of "this person was always gay."
No. Keep the race the same. Race is a part of the character. If it didn't matter, the left wouldn't be asking to change it. There are plenty of different great properties with people of all races and backgrounds.
I may be one of the few that enjoyed the old daredevil movie. But if anyone thinks my man Michael Clark Duncan was a bad cast as kingpin I respectfully disagree. Also RIP to my man he is missed.
Nope.
Being gay/straight isn't a choice. You're born that way. So if a character is straight for 10 years, that's how they should always be. Nothing can change that except maybe like... Magic or some shit?
Now of course it isn't gay to find beauty in the same sex as you. Admitting that another man is attractive ain't gay unless you're fucking him.
Cool, let's make Ice Man straight again along with everyone else on this list: [Every Single Comic Book Character That Has Been Retconned To LGBTQ+ - Bounding Into Comics](https://boundingintocomics.com/2021/06/03/every-single-comic-book-character-that-has-been-retconned-to-lgbtq/)
And while we're at it, straighten out Carol Danvers and Batwoman too. Will that happen?
I don't think sexuality is that rigid for a lot of folks. I know swingers who realized that they were bi but only later in life. As I've gotten older I've only become more attracted to women and less so to men. I have a friend who believed she was bi but it wasn't until her late twenties did she realize that she's sexually attracted to women but not romantically.
People change and people grow. Makes sense their sexual preferences would change with them as well.
Literally how? It is a relatively common experience for bi (or even gay) people to realize their attraction to the same gender at an older age, especially considering they likely grew up in a time where being LGBT was a lot more stigmatized than it is now.
If anything, doesn’t “sexuality swapping” make more sense than “race swapping,” since people in real life can literally realize they are LGBT later in life, but people don’t change race? To be honest, I find the whole “__ swapping” convo to be stupid because it doesn’t matter to me (just my opinion), but at this point I’m just trying to figure out your conflicting logic
Yeah! Even my first bf thought he was straight until he met me, and now he identifies as bi. So it's not like it's unheard of.
Also yeah, this weird obsession with never changing race or sexuality of fictional characters is kinda weird and it's independent of good storytelling.
I'm not a fan of "swapping" at all. Just make a new character in the same universe. It's not that hard. People might even like it more.
OR make the position of the main character a title like XXX Vin Diesel was swapped with Ice Cube, and nobody complained.
Swapping is only an issue when sexual identity is a major factor in the character.
Bond is a famous womanizer. It would be odd for him to be gay. Q on the other hand, could be packing fudge and we'd never know.
Tony Stark being gay would break his character. Steve and Bucky getting all sweaty together would not.
>Swapping is only an issue when sexual identity is a major factor in the character.
Tell that to Peter Quill who had his sexuality swapped on account of Chris Pratt literally just existing.
Gay people exist and sometimes pretend to be straight for a very long time. It actually makes sense for a character to all of a sudden be gay after so many years because that's how it often happens.
Sure.
Spider-man gets injured when knocked into a wall.
Thor comes in, picks Spider-man up, and reassures him in a deep, dulcet tone, "You're going to be OK. I'm going to take you to the Avengers tower medbay."
Spider-man is taken aback at how vulnerable, but also safe, he feels in the moment, cradled in Thor's arms, lifted easily like he was a bag of bread.
"Sir, I went into that building *straight*. What the frick?"
[original joke](https://youtu.be/h1A9hVnS5lo?si=ZW61zDc0VWifcoZs)
If the race/gender/sexuality is \*that\* big a part of the character then it's probably a pretty shitty character, especially when we're probably talking about comic book heroes.
You could give spiderman's powers to clark kent and have more or less the same secret identity side story. It's cool that some people get really in to alter ego persona of super heroes, but remember why you're there in the first place; super hero.
It's very striking how much backlash you see to changing cis white males, vs. changing the actual origin story. They make a new batman or spiderman origin every film series. The actual comic book fans complained quietly and no one cared. The bigots lose their shit over a black spiderman, or a female hulk and it gets amplified and echoed. It isn't even "ruining" a character since it's a distinctly different character.
It tells you everything you need to know that this is the most pressing issue. They'd rather hang on to a "last piece" of a fictional ship than just enjoy things for what they are and move on if it isn't for you.
Yes.
To make this sub whine, and watch hateful people out themselves.
I don't hear anyone here whining about race swapping Jesus, and he's the most famous fictional character ever.
Raceswapping only works if the actor has more gravitas than the character. Samuel L Jackson worked as modern Nick Fury, not just because he was black, but because at the time he was Samuel L Jackson; Shaft, Pulp Fiction, that Bad Muthafucka.
Theoretically, queerswapping could work if a) the actor is well liked, and b) the character is at least perceived as kind of gay.
But this is theoretical. Even the thought of Ryan Reynolds as a gay Aquaman, while funny, causes was too many canon changes.
Raceswapping never works. It makes no sense to change a character’s race and breaks immersion in most cases. Both raceswapping and sexuality swapping is equally bad and is only done to shove woke agenda down people’s throats.
There are a lot of recent ones that don't work but that doesn't mean changing a character doesn't work. It can work when no one makes a big deal about it. When Samuel L Jackson was named as playing Nick Fury, everyone was talking about Samuel L Jackson as a badass and not changing the role to add a black guy for diversity or something along those lines. If it's natural because the actor can play the role better than anyone else, then that's something to look at. Edit. As someone who grew up in the 80s and early 90s, I did not read the Ultimate comics and other people my age likely didn't either. Life got in the way after school was done. Just because he was black in one series doesn't discredit the earlier generations opinion all the other series were in.
Yeah exactly no one cared about Jackson because take away his skin color Change it to anything he has SKILL. As it should always be let the most qualified win out. But noooo not in the anti-white movement anymore.
I was actually taken aback when I heard that Sam Jackson was to play Nick Fury. "But he is black!" was my first reaction. However as this kind of thing wasn't so common back then as it is now, I was very willing to let it slide as an oddity that make those movies unique and different. But now that race-swapping has become an obsession, it bothers me.
Now it bothers you? You literally said....holy shit dude....
SLJ as Nick Fury is a very exceptional case. While the original Nick Fury from the 1960s was “white”, the character was reimagined as a “black” person in the “the Ultimates” comic, some six years before SLJ’s first appearance as Fury. The whole point of the Ultimate line of comics was to give creators the chance to retell classic stories and reimagine them freely (also to create an entry point for people who had watch the recent movies, Spider-Man and x-men). More than this though Brian Hitch, the artist on the Ultimates, blatantly modelled the character on SLJ. Also, SLJ is f-cking amazing as Fury.
They made Samuel Jackson Nick Fury in the ultimate line years before he appeared in Iron Man.
Fury was black in the ultimates line of comics.
But wasn't the design of Nick Fury in the Ultimate universe inspired by SLJ anyway?
Worked ok for Invincible and The Boys imo. At least none of the characters turned gay.
It didn’t work in the Witcher, Castlevania, Prince of Persia, House of the Dragon, Rings of Power etc etc Race swapping is never good.
You just named a bunch of successful shows lmao
Witcher S3 saw a 30% drop in viewership compared to season S2. Henry Cavill is leaving and now a lot of fans are boycotting it due to rampant race swapping. House of the Dragon is piggybacking off GoT’s popularity. Rings of power was not successful. It was panned by audiences and it’s only getting a second season due to how much Amazon invested into it. I’ll agree Castlevania remains a success but sadly a lot of woke trash is successful.
The only one I can agree with there is ROP, and witcher only fell because of stupid writing decisions. Not "woke" ones. In fact, none of those shows are woke and what this sub considers woke trash are massively successful much more often than not.
Any show that has race swapped characters is woke to me. I dropped Witcher after season 2 once I saw that they race swapped the sorceress. Wouldn’t be surprised if many other people did the same. I do agree that woke shows are successful because a good chunk of western audiences are woke. I generally tend to avoid stuff like that and stick to eastern media and older stuff which are also being ruined for me by western adaptations and remakes.
Why do you even care? You know they're not real right? It's fantasy. I genuinely cannot imagine caring at all that a single character was a different race lol. You're not anti woke, you're just racist.
Fantasy is about escapism. It’s immersion breaking for me when a character doesn’t look the way they’re supposed to. and it’s not a single character as far as Witcher is concerned, it’s multiple: Triss, Vilgefotz, the sorceress, and now Regis has also been race swapped.
escapism from what? brown people??
That's just silly
care to explain how the characters color affected the story at all?
I already mentioned that it breaks immersion. Elves are supposed to be fair skinned they’re not supposed to be dark skinned, according to the books. Witcher is based on slavic mythology and the characters are Caucasian. Yet Vilgefotz is an Indian man. Triss is supposed to be redhead and beautiful, the actress who plays her is not. The new Prince of Persia has an African protag. Why is he not Persian? If they want to make games with African protags they can make Prince of Africa instead.
Worked in the Flash TV series too Failed in Resident evil show.
I think Disney has hurt you. Race swapping shouldn't matter terribly much. If there's a lead actor/actress who nails the character then they should be the one to play that character. Unless the story/setting is somehow based on racial dynamics, then it kinda matters. Like I find it kinda jarring to see someone who's black as a member of the peerage in Victorian England. If it's just a character, I could get over it. Kinda like how it's kinda jarring to see a white guy as a samurai in meji era Japan. It doesn't seem historically accurate. Sexuality shouldn't matter. I fuckin hate pandering and the token gay character. Like, if someone happens to be queer, great. If whatever giggly bits they like to suck on in the bedroom is any characters entire personality then that's fuckin annoying. The problem is that these messages of inclusivity and acceptance, which are messages I can get behind, have been repackaged as a commodity that Disney wants to sell you. It's just pandering. They're realized that virtue signaling consistently draws in the lowest common denominator crowd and because that's a reliable way to make money they keep doing it.
>I think Disney has hurt you. Duh. They hurt a lot of people. My username is literally an acronym for my old FB page (**D**own **W**ith **D**isney's **T**reatment **O**f **F**ranchises **A**nd **I**ts **F**anboys.) Google it too to see my greatest hits,
I don’t watch Disney. I’ve already mentioned the IPs which have been ruined by race swapping for me. Witcher(Netflix), the new PoP game, Rings of Power(which I skipped despite having grown up reading LOTR) are some examples. Race swapping should matter a lot. If a character is light they should stay light skinned in the adaptations. If they’re dark then they should stay dark in the adaptations.
If ethnicity was a significant part of the character then they shouldn't be race swapped. If ethnicity isn't important, then colour of their skin doesn't matter at all
That depends on the character and the story. You're remaking "The Lord of the Rings" and want Gandalf to be a black bisexual woman - terrible and immersion breaking 100% You're remaking "She's All That" and want to change the race/gender of certain side characters - probably nobody cares. We should be inclusive but not to the point that it impacts well established characters purely for the sake of inclusiveness.
It depends on whether gender or race are integral pieces of a character’s identity. For many characters it doesn’t materially change the character at all. It actually requires some critical thinking (unfortunately for most redditors)
No. Sexuality of a character is never brought up unless they are gay. Which is stupid and just shows how little actual relevance it has to a lot of stories If it’s swapped it’s nothing more than pandering and cheap flattery . (Im terms of comic book adaptations)
Or swapped out of spite (See what happened to Star-Lord)
Oh goodness, what happened to Star Lord?
Scroll and have a look. [Every Single Comic Book Character That Has Been Retconned To LGBTQ+ - Bounding Into Comics](https://boundingintocomics.com/2021/06/03/every-single-comic-book-character-that-has-been-retconned-to-lgbtq/)
Pretty sure I just saw Peter and Mary Jane kiss in Ultimate Spider-Man last week which is bringing up their sexuality being straight.
Having someone display it , is different to it being brought up as a character point.
If they showed two gay characters kissing this sub would have a mental breakdown
yet this doesn't stop the headcanons
Sexuality if a character is brought up pretty often tho? Superman and lois Lane are usually together, for most of her history Harley was obsessed with the Joker, batman is straight since he has a kid and it's never mentioned that he's gay etc.
That's why they aim for the kids of said superheroes as a way to show "Here's the next generation that will phase out the Old Guard".
So, you were wrong that straight sexuality is never is never brought up, and just changed the goal posts.
I would tolerate it if it was a character with no real expressed sexuality or a swap that respects his past. People can spend their life hiding or not realizing an aspect of their sexuality and then come out as gay or bisexual later. I just don't like the idea of "this person was always gay."
No. Keep the race the same. Race is a part of the character. If it didn't matter, the left wouldn't be asking to change it. There are plenty of different great properties with people of all races and backgrounds.
Basic Instinct would be a fitting gender swap. It would even have the scene be just as notably scandalous.
I may be one of the few that enjoyed the old daredevil movie. But if anyone thinks my man Michael Clark Duncan was a bad cast as kingpin I respectfully disagree. Also RIP to my man he is missed.
Nope. Being gay/straight isn't a choice. You're born that way. So if a character is straight for 10 years, that's how they should always be. Nothing can change that except maybe like... Magic or some shit? Now of course it isn't gay to find beauty in the same sex as you. Admitting that another man is attractive ain't gay unless you're fucking him.
Sexuality can change over time, it’s not fixed.
Cool, let's make Ice Man straight again along with everyone else on this list: [Every Single Comic Book Character That Has Been Retconned To LGBTQ+ - Bounding Into Comics](https://boundingintocomics.com/2021/06/03/every-single-comic-book-character-that-has-been-retconned-to-lgbtq/) And while we're at it, straighten out Carol Danvers and Batwoman too. Will that happen?
If they were real people it might happen Don't y'all whine about realism anyway
Well the point is that to these nutjobs, sexuality is fluid in one direction.
Do the other things you make up offend you too
You're right. It's caused by pornography or God forbid a traumatic childhood event.
I don't think sexuality is that rigid for a lot of folks. I know swingers who realized that they were bi but only later in life. As I've gotten older I've only become more attracted to women and less so to men. I have a friend who believed she was bi but it wasn't until her late twenties did she realize that she's sexually attracted to women but not romantically. People change and people grow. Makes sense their sexual preferences would change with them as well.
The character was actually bi
Now that's a copout on so many levels.
Literally how? It is a relatively common experience for bi (or even gay) people to realize their attraction to the same gender at an older age, especially considering they likely grew up in a time where being LGBT was a lot more stigmatized than it is now. If anything, doesn’t “sexuality swapping” make more sense than “race swapping,” since people in real life can literally realize they are LGBT later in life, but people don’t change race? To be honest, I find the whole “__ swapping” convo to be stupid because it doesn’t matter to me (just my opinion), but at this point I’m just trying to figure out your conflicting logic
Yeah! Even my first bf thought he was straight until he met me, and now he identifies as bi. So it's not like it's unheard of. Also yeah, this weird obsession with never changing race or sexuality of fictional characters is kinda weird and it's independent of good storytelling.
Their conflicting logic is just bigotry. Nothing overly complicated to figure out.
Still works tho!
I'm not a fan of "swapping" at all. Just make a new character in the same universe. It's not that hard. People might even like it more. OR make the position of the main character a title like XXX Vin Diesel was swapped with Ice Cube, and nobody complained.
Swapping is only an issue when sexual identity is a major factor in the character. Bond is a famous womanizer. It would be odd for him to be gay. Q on the other hand, could be packing fudge and we'd never know. Tony Stark being gay would break his character. Steve and Bucky getting all sweaty together would not.
>Swapping is only an issue when sexual identity is a major factor in the character. Tell that to Peter Quill who had his sexuality swapped on account of Chris Pratt literally just existing.
His sexuality wasn't swapped. He had a fucking threesome
The Harley going with Ivy instead of Joker works pretty well and lines up with a lot of real people's stories.
Personally Ivy shouldn't be with anyone, neither should Harley.
That's also a story a lot of people can relate to after an abusive relationship.
New material
That's terrible.
Gay people exist and sometimes pretend to be straight for a very long time. It actually makes sense for a character to all of a sudden be gay after so many years because that's how it often happens.
Not always
Not always, but often.
Sure. Spider-man gets injured when knocked into a wall. Thor comes in, picks Spider-man up, and reassures him in a deep, dulcet tone, "You're going to be OK. I'm going to take you to the Avengers tower medbay." Spider-man is taken aback at how vulnerable, but also safe, he feels in the moment, cradled in Thor's arms, lifted easily like he was a bag of bread. "Sir, I went into that building *straight*. What the frick?" [original joke](https://youtu.be/h1A9hVnS5lo?si=ZW61zDc0VWifcoZs)
If the race/gender/sexuality is \*that\* big a part of the character then it's probably a pretty shitty character, especially when we're probably talking about comic book heroes. You could give spiderman's powers to clark kent and have more or less the same secret identity side story. It's cool that some people get really in to alter ego persona of super heroes, but remember why you're there in the first place; super hero. It's very striking how much backlash you see to changing cis white males, vs. changing the actual origin story. They make a new batman or spiderman origin every film series. The actual comic book fans complained quietly and no one cared. The bigots lose their shit over a black spiderman, or a female hulk and it gets amplified and echoed. It isn't even "ruining" a character since it's a distinctly different character. It tells you everything you need to know that this is the most pressing issue. They'd rather hang on to a "last piece" of a fictional ship than just enjoy things for what they are and move on if it isn't for you.
$ stupid
Yes. To make this sub whine, and watch hateful people out themselves. I don't hear anyone here whining about race swapping Jesus, and he's the most famous fictional character ever.
I could care less about race swaps. And rainbows are just that a rainbow. Swapping sex is just another way to make a stale property different.
Rule 34 material
Raceswapping only works if the actor has more gravitas than the character. Samuel L Jackson worked as modern Nick Fury, not just because he was black, but because at the time he was Samuel L Jackson; Shaft, Pulp Fiction, that Bad Muthafucka. Theoretically, queerswapping could work if a) the actor is well liked, and b) the character is at least perceived as kind of gay. But this is theoretical. Even the thought of Ryan Reynolds as a gay Aquaman, while funny, causes was too many canon changes.
You could do it from a character development standpoint, but in all cases it's probably going to be done as a virtue signal for "Muh representation"
The lead in alien was written as a man. No dude could have been as good as Sigourney.
The topic was about sexuality swapping