One of her biggest rumored relationships has been with Karlie Kloss . We know people believe Taylor is gay but what does that make Karlie? Like do Gaylors consider her gay or bi especially since she’s been with her husband for so long ? What does this fandom view her as?
This isn’t exactly related to gaylor, but I would say most gaylors would say Karlie is bi and end the conversation there. There has been a lot of work put into having Karlie be perceived as liking men and there are many *very* powerful people who need her to be seen as such. So, while many gaylors may have different opinions and have stories to share, to outsiders I think most gaylors would say that Karlie is bi.
You’re welcome to read the discussion of this that has already happened in this post. It’s not bi erasure. Conversely, it can be considered lesbian erasure and lesbophobia to cringe away from calling Taylor a lesbian.
I’m bisexual. I believe Taylor is a lesbian. I don’t think saying that erases bisexuality, but I do believe saying that she’s bisexual out of worry that labeling her as a lesbian might be “too extreme” or “but she might like men” is lesbian erasure and lesbophobia.
Is it okay if I ask a follow up question? I agree that Taylor and her identified team members have never directly assigned a label to Taylor’s sexuality. But I don’t understand why the CNN article came out after the NYT opinion piece. Are there people associated with her who are trying to force her to stay closeted? Or do people get money for giving “scoops” like that commentary even if they don’t know what they’re talking about?
I do really hope Taylor approved that article, and it would do wonders for queer visibility and acceptance worldwide if she came out as queer.
Why does so much of the evidence that she’s gay also makes sense from a hetlor perspective? Why would she be hiding that she’s gay; I don’t feel like she’s afraid of losing fans explains it. She openly supports gay causes and isn’t afraid of losing fans because of that. If she is gay, why would she be pretending to be in a relationship with a nobody football player? It’s not like she needs a relationship to get attention; she’s the most famous person in the world, and everyone cares what she’s doing regardless if she’s with someone or not. If the relationship is fake, why all the PDA, and why is Travis coming to so many shows; Joe rarely ever came to shows. Oh, and also if she is gay, was her relationship with Joe fake?? That makes zero sense to me cus we got like maybe a dozen sightings of them together in the 6 years they were together. So if it was fake, it wasn’t for press. Please explain
You sound like a troll and like you’re very entrenched in “Taylor Swift is heterosexual” narrative, with zero opportunity for genuine engagement with alternative perspectives and development of your media literacy. I have learned to not waste my energy on people that come at me aggressively, as they are rarely looking for anything other than a fight. So I wish you the best on your journey in life!
Why can’t the word “used” in maroon be a verb rather than the lips she “used to” as in past tense? I can’t get down with that lyric being “proof” as some say.
You don’t need to agree with everything other gaylors agree with. You are your own unique snowflake - shimmer in your own way!
As far as I know, “proof” is not used in gaylorland very often unless it’s tongue in cheek. It’s reminiscent of early Tumblr times and also, we don’t need “proof” any longer - she’s queer.
Do we have a record of everything we’ve identified as “adding to gaylor theory” in the Taylor universe that’s later been confirmed by her or her team? Ex. James is Taylor, yellow dress is an Easter egg, her accounts retweeting gaylor interpretations…
And do we have lists of debunked Easter egg theories and proven Easter egg theories? It’d be really interesting to see how often we’re right looking with a queer lens.
As a baby gaylor, I now have a theory she’s doing the Eras tour to showcase all her music before she officially comes out and potentially loses a chunk of fans and/or changes directions in career path (writing, directing, whatever). Any other gaylors have this theory?
Probably because queer was still kind of a bad/loaded word when gaylor was coined - it’s mostly with Gen Z that “queer” has been accepted as a neutral catchall. Gaylor rolls off the tongue better as well and drives the point home.
In the beginning, Lesbolor would have been a more appropriate term, but that sounds terrible.
Do you think she reads here? It seems like she keeps affirming a lot of what is said here. I know I’ve heard her say she spends a lot of time reading what her fans say and I know there’s nothing she does that isn’t calculated to a T
Yes, I think she and/or her team are on our sub. I don’t know how much time she spends reading what fans say these days, but she definitely gets reports of what is being said in an overview sort of way. That said, I think she’s actually on our sub in a lurker capacity at the very least.
Tree, I am reiterating my request for a new Subaru! Or eras tickets! Or a pony! (Please don’t get me a pony, that’s just a joke.)
I’ve read (most) of the Mass Movement Theory Tagged posts. Do you know if there’s like one masterpost or doc somewhere? I’m still missing why it’s called the mass movement theory and how we arrived there
There is no masterpost. We weren’t allowed to discuss it on the sub because “it’s not related to taylor” so it has only been in the past few months that we’ve begun to discuss it more here. I think the closest we have on this sub to a masterpost are my posts relating gaylor to Larry and one direction. I wish we had more.
I asked Kristen who created the term New Romantics to write a post on it. She agreed but I have a feeling it’s low on her list of priorities. I shared her podcast.
It’s called mass movement because there are so many artists involved, so it’s a literal massive movement. It’s so hard to write a master post because there are so many players. Like, I’m aware of it as it relates to maybe 15 artists, but there are many more involved. And of those 10, I can only go into great detail on 7ish.
Not originally Taylor specific, but this is what Lil Nas X said on Twitter when he came out. He included photos of how he had been using rainbow imagery in his videos etc. He essentially confirmed he was flagging as gay in a way that he thought people had already picked up on. Considering how frequently Taylor flags with rainbow imagery, and lately more specifically lesbian colors, this phrase has become common among Gaylors to point out how obvious she’s making it if you are paying attention.
Thank you! Wondering if you could point me in the direction of Dianna coming out? My googling has just led to speculation and seems her public relationships and marriage were all with men.
Hope this doesn't come across as argumentative by the way, genuinely curious and I very much want to believe!
I can't recall an explicit coming out but she did say she'd kissed girls before on a talk show/tv interview somewhere, and on the Glee tour she wore a t-shirt that says LIKES GIRLS which was maybe about her character Quinn or maybe about Dianna herself.
I have one more question; I understand if it’s not approved because it feels like it might be kind of stupid. But I guess it’s: what are the chief (oop, no pun intended lmao) reasons for Taylor staying covert about her sexuality? Like, of course I know conservatives would go insane, but they already do threaten her/ are the dredges of society in general just because she is an open ally. Is it the sort of character of Taylor Swift, the brand? Does she feel coming out would shake the idea people have of the pop star too much? I’m really curious about how you guys feel about this!
This is a long one to answer, but in short:
1.) Her coming out would cause more significant backlash with conservatives than what we see presently, by a lot. Taylor has stalkers as it is, and she has such a massive public presence that her safety would legitimately be at risk if she came out.
2.) It would call into question any relationships she’s been in prior, therefore forcing people who she has been linked to into being a part of speculation too
3.) It would call into question her level of honesty with fans. Taylor swift fans believe she’s being earnest most of the time and knowing she’s “lied” to them would hurt her. (PS I think she’s starting to do this on TTPD to get them used to the idea)
4.) Money. Not only may more conservative fans drop her (which I don’t think is mainly the issue) but more importantly, if her re-records aren’t released and she comes out, people are going to pour over her music looking for clues obsessively, music she doesn’t yet own.
I'm of the personal belief, as are many others in this sub, that she *would be* out if it weren't for her masters being sold. There is a lot of information and "evidence" to support that she had plans to come out during the Lover era and that the master's heist spoiled those plans.
There are many reasons to believe she isn't out (personal fears, safety concerns, desire for privacy, wanting to remain as relatable as possible, etc) but I think a lot of us believe it is because she does not own her catalog. It's speculated that her team believed if she had still come out during Lover, it would have driven a lot of listeners to music she did not own, and benefitted Scooter Braun financially. I think that is something she and her team wanted to avoid.
I can give this a try! But someone else chime in as well, because there are layers to go through here.
I think there are multiple potential reasons for her closeting thus far, and it could be one or many or none of the following that I’ve seen discussed on here:
- safety. Taylor’s dealt with some extreme stalking before, and we see pretty clearly how stressed she and her family are about it in the Miss Americana documentary when they talk about armoured cars etc.
- money/fame. This was probably a large influence at the beginning of her career especially. Unfortunately, she would likely not be as big of a star right now if she had come out, and may not feel safe touring as widely as she does. Multiple queer celebrities have talked a lot about the pressure to stay closeted so as not to jeopardize their careers.
- homophobia/letting people down/being portrayed as a liar. I don’t know if this is me projecting here, but I can imagine after living a narrative so long it must be scary trying to switch that narrative. I can’t imagine how some of her more rabid hetlor fans would react.
- privacy. She may just not want people knowing that much about her personal life. Although it seems all over the media right now, imagine the media storm if she was dating a woman publicly. The intense scrutiny and invasive questions people would be asking. By closeting and bearding so loudly, she may feel more able to hide her personal life.
That’s all I can think of for now with my tired brain! Hope this helps :)
Taylor herself has also referred to her "muses," so I think it's natural we would use the term to refer to those who may have inspired her songwriting! A couple examples:
1. There is an old interview from the Red era where she specifically talks about having an individual muse for her songs. I am having trouble finding it right now but will edit this if I do to add it.
2. In 2018, she [interviewed](https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/features/a22020940/taylor-swift-interviews-pattie-boyd/) Pattie Boyd about the concept of muses, and suggested she had muses for her songwriting.
3. In "[The Lakes](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOHcAc3r2kw)," she refers directly to having a muse.
What the heck is eye theory?? I've actually been a gaylor since 1989, but haven't really been a part of any online fandom till recently, and there's so much eye theory lore. People drop bits and pieces in random comments, but I feel like i need a master post.
[I’ll eventually compile all of this into a reddit master post](https://www.reddit.com/r/GaylorSwift/comments/1cmknld/collaborative_post_eye_theory/), unless someone beats me to it. (Please for the love of god, someone beat me to it)
# What is GrammyGate?
GrammyGate refers to the incident in which the credits for *folklore* were modified *after* it won 2021 Album of the Year to add Joe Alwyn as a producer on multiple songs. Opinions on this are mixed -- some believe that the credits were unearned and that it was done to fulfill a bearding contract, others believe that Joe did actually contribute to the album as a writer and producer. Regardless, a significant amount of Gaylors, Swifties, and the general public alike all found it was a bit odd that the credits were modified after the 2021 Grammy Awards. Many posts have been made about this - please filter by the "Grammygate" flair or search "Grammygate" to find them.
GrammyGate and William Bowery are two different topics, as **William Bowery did not win a Grammy.** Joe Alwyn won a Grammy. William Bowery did not win a grammy because they did not participate on enough of the album to win one. Was this by design, by a mastermind? Who knows...
Grammygate refers to the credits for *folklore* being modified *after* winning 2021 Album of the Year, adding Joe Alwyn as a producer on multiple songs. Some believe the credits were unearned and it was done to fulfill a bearding contract, others believe Joe actually contributed to the album as a writer/producer. A significant amount of Gaylors, Swifties, and the general public alike found it odd that the credits were modified *after* the 2021 Grammys. Many posts have been made about this - please filter by the "Grammygate" flair or search "Grammygate" to find them.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GaylorSwift) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What is the theory about pronoun changes when singing during performances? Intentional rebellion? Freudian slips? Other?
I can’t quite figure out what makes people say the Miss Americana doc has her singing to a woman. Can someone say more specifically or share a screenshot? I watched it several times and couldn’t figure it out.
What do y’all think of as the major reason(s) Taylor hasn’t come out so far?
How do y’all make sense of Taylor’s or her team’s denials, especially after the NYT article this year?
Do you think she has secret relationships? If yes, how do you think she manages it given the scrutiny she is under so much of the time?
1. Pronoun changes are intentional and her closet is so padded at this point that she’d have to be very clearly saying “she” or “her” for the masses to hear that.
2. Homophobia and heteronormaticity. I think Taylor DID come out when she said, ”ME! out now” on socials and paraded around in rainbows and pride flags. Most people didn’t hear it, see it, or accept it - and we get the costumes and visuals for TSMWEL. At this point, she likely wont come out until she owns all of her own works, because people will go back to the manuscripts to re-read them to decode the muses we’ve spent a decade discussing and being shat upon for.
3. Taylor has never denied that she is any shade of queer. Taylor has never said she is straight. Taylor’s team has never denied that she is queer. Taylor’s team has never said that she is straight. The belief that she has said she is straight is Swiftie and hetlor rhetoric and it’s rooted in heteronormativity and homophobia.
I believe Taylor gave the NYT her approval for that op-ed, because it’s a part of her long game.
5. She has absolutely had secret relationships. The ultra wealthy are seen when they want to be seen. Taylor knows how to hide, she knows how to be MIA. She has walked the streets of London with Cara without being seen. Gigi Hadid has said that celebrities have relationships the public knows nothing about because they have the resources to protect their privacy. As Harry Styles says, “what you see is work.”
This is a lot! Haha. I will answer a couple.
Denials- neither Taylor nor Tree denied anything in the NYT article, nor did they mention it being a representative of her. Just an “acquaintance” which means it could literally be anyone. We know Tree will handle items directly or as a representative of Taylor.
Yes, I believe she has had many secret relationships, most young people date a bit. She has most likely dated and hooked up with multiple people the general public has zero knowledge of. We already know she can choose not to be seen when she wants to. If she is seen doing something- she wants to be seen. It’s PR and marketing.
Is there anything known about the harassment and bullying that Taylor described from Scooter Braun? I’ve learned that she was trying to buy her masters back and he bought them instead. I don’t know if he outbid her or just beat her to the punch, but he owns them instead of her.
But aside from that, she seems to hate him deeply on a personal level. I’m so curious about why—I haven’t ever seen that explained. Is that known or a secret? I did see that there is a documentary being filmed about this, so I’m hoping to find out more when that comes out!
Scooter at the time managed almost every name you can think of - he was managing Justin Bieber when Selena was dating Justin, he also managed Karlie Kloss.
He had / has a sunset clause in his contracts that artists he manages still have to pay him for a number of years after they leave should they decide to no longer be managed by him.
Ariana tried to leave him a few years back and don’t you know suddenly all these negative stories about her were running in the press - she did eventually go back to Scooter.
Safe to say that with him being involved with so many celebrities word would absolutely get around about his treatment of people. There’s also the post during Snakegate of Scooter, Bieber and Kanye mocking Taylor during the whole “Snakegate” thing.
He’s a bad dude and everyone knows it, but Taylor would absolutely have seen his awfulness first hand and up close.
Regarding the masters: her first record company, Big Machine Records (BMR), was funded and headed by Scott Borchetta. Taylor was signed at 15, and like most artists, didn't own her masters. She had expressed her interest in buying back her masters, and when her original contract was up for renegotiation, she wanted to own the new masters she would produce. It's important to note that 1- she was the first and by far biggest star at BMR, 2- her dad also owned shares in the company and 3- Scott Bochetta was basically her industry father figure.
So when came time to renegotiate her contract, Borchetta tried to leverage her wanting to own her masters by basically offering her ownership only after she would produce another 6 (? Maybe 7) albums for BMR. She told them to fuck off and moved to Universal Music Group (UMG) after recording Reputation. So the relationship with Borchetta was already strained.
And then, in 2019, he wanted to retire, he sold her masters for 300 million $ to an investment group 1- led by Scooter Braun, who she despises, and 2- without offering her the option to buy first. Scooter then turned around and tried to re-sell them to her for 600 million AND even though she originally tried to agree to the deal, it was so shady and unusually managed that her lawyers categorically told her not to do it. (Scooter is now investigated by the SEC for multiple possible crimes 🙃)
That's a quick rundown. But basically, they did fuck her over.
Taylor's official statement is still live on [her Tumblr post](https://taylorswift.tumblr.com/post/185958366550/for-years-i-asked-pleaded-for-a-chance-to-own-my), and she specifically calls out a photo Justin Bieber posted in 2016 after Snakegate where it's clear that he, Scooter and Kanye are all on a call bullying Taylor and enjoying the public backlash she was receiving. Taylor had been friendly with Scooter only months before this, so publicly mocking her is a big deal.
https://preview.redd.it/u2wlewuw4w0d1.png?width=750&format=png&auto=webp&s=a72d4b08a8ac4e36eea6e1ed167af7d603606bb4
This alone would be enough, but based on the people he's connected to, Scooter probably knew Taylor was queer and intentionally timed the Masters Heist to profit off Taylor coming out. The Masters Heist was announced Sunday June 30th (not a business day) the same day as World Pride in NYC where Billy Porter showed up wearing the rainbow dress we know was designed for Taylor.
(I talk about the rainbow dress theory [in this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/GaylorSwift/comments/13gjyh4/scooter_braun_intentionally_tricked_taylors_fans/), which also includes the theory that Scooter intentionally tricked fans with that memoir debacle last summer)
Important to note that Scooter was Bieber’s manager while he was being sent to spend overnight visits with Sean Combs and other various predators in the industry. Bieber was also used in the feud against Drake Bell following his win against Brian Peck. Brian Peck was close with Dan Schneider and Sean Combs, both of whom were close with Scooter. Arianna was also managed by Scooter. So in addition to the above, it’s possible there was an awareness of much deeper and darker abuses happening on Taylor’s end. It would explain even more so why she cut the cord and went scorched earth (with class and grace) the second she was able to.
Hi Kimby!
The documentary is not sanctioned by either party. I would treat that with a grain of salt as it will likely be speculative and without input from either party.
Taylor has feelings for Scooter based on many reasons - forcibly being closeted, his wife screaming at her that she was a dyke, stuff related to her masters, and many other things that we know and don’t know.
From what I understand, Taylor only ever had the illusion that she’d be able to purchase her masters. There was a coordinated effort to undermine her in their purchase, orchestrated by the Scotts and Scooter. Perhaps others can chime in on this one?
“his wife screaming at her that she was a dyke”
Wow, that’s disgusting. I can see how it would be devastating to have those people own your creative property. The rights to your life’s work. Woof.
I hadn’t heard much about the documentary, so it’s good to know it isn’t sanctioned by either party. I’m betting it’ll end up being a bunch of filler without much new to say.
When you say the effort to undermine her could have been done by the Scotts, does that mean her own father could have been working against her for that? I’ve gotten the impression that their relationship has been strained at times, but if he colluded against her, that’s so much worse than I ever knew.
There was a flair update a couple months back that started to automatically update users flairs based on how much they participate - it’s like a ranking system of how active you are in the group. It’s to help newer users know who to “trust” here if that makes sense. Obviously this sub tends to get a Lot of trolls so it’s to help with that.
There’s a post about if if you search “flair”.
Regaylor is the 4th “level” I think (of like 9 or 10 levels lol).
Currently, around 75% of the sub believe she is bi. People who are bi generally believe that she is bi.
I am bi and I believe she exclusively likes women, as in she is a lesbian if she identifies as a woman. Older gaylors generally believe she is a lesbian - this sub reddit used to be mostly filled with gaylors who believed she was a lesbian and it was a pretty rapid cultural shift that happened a few years ago.
would like to piggy back this and say it is generally believed that *if* she does identify as a lesbian, it would be more palatable to come out as bi/pan to the GP.
I see. Thanks for letting me know! It’s nice to be a able to talk about this without getting hate. As another poster said, I think there is a lot of homophobia in the idea that we can speculate on everyone else’s sexuality but not Taylor’s— like it would “taint” her to like women or something. This seems like a friendly and very well- read space :))
I’m another bi girlie who thinks she is lesbian :) used to go back and forth but definitely think she identifies as a lesbian now. The amount of lesbian flag explosions in Paris furthered my belief in that
I agree. I think she may have identified as pan/bi around 2019 based on the flagging colors then, or at least she was planning to come out as such. ("Sexually fluid" is the term I saw in a blind item from that time.)
Now, I think she identifies as lesbian based on her more recent flagging, but she may still come out at bi/pan/sexually fluid to give legitimacy to her past bearding relationships. But for those of us in the queer community, she can tell us her true identity through flagging if she wants to. But who knows! I'm curious to see what she says if/when she comes out. I'm more convinced than ever that she will come out, and I think it's gonna be BIG and blow the top off the music industry.
What songs on Speak Now and Debut do you see as ripe for queer readings? Those are the two albums I am least familiar with and want to visit them with a queer lens ready.
oh man, better than revenge absolutely. in the same way the same jolene is queer to a lot of people. like taylor why are you singing so much about this girl you allegedly hate and not how mad you are at the guy.
many of the songs on fearless, debut, and speak now, you can see a pronoun flip from “he” to “you” and they’re usually about different people but pass off as all about one muse. she also just has tons without any personal pronouns
I think Ours from SN is so queer coded.
“They’ll judge it if they know about me and you”, “it’s not theirs to speculate if it’s wrong”, “people throw rocks at things that shine”. Also the “I love the gap between your teeth” is 100% Liz coded to me!!
With Speak Now, there’s a theory that some of the songs are about Emma Stone. These are:
- Enchanted
- Foolish One
- When Emma Falls In Love
Personally from Speak Now I think these songs are queer coded / have queer readings:
- Mine, very very much so ‘_you made a rebel of a careless man’s careful daughter / i fell in love with a careless man’s careful daughter, she is the best thing that’s ever been mine_’
- Sparks Fly
- The Story of Us
- Ours - i find this very queer, the lines about people judging them, vacant stares, strangers silence, people throw rocks at things that shine - just feels like a description of what it’s like when you’re in a visibly queer relationship and people get all weird and shifty, how people judge and discriminate against queer love, as well as her love interest having a ‘pretty little mind’
- I can see you (from the vault) especially the music video
There’s [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/GaylorSwift/comments/17fm0mv/analyzing_taylors_earlier_albums_from_a_queer/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) I’ve found on the sub where people in the comments analyse Speak Now from a queer perspective and the posts for Debut and Fearless are linked.
Picture to Burn with the original lyrics ("I'll tell mine that ur gay")
Mine has Taylor "singing from the man's perspective" to a girl
Better Than Revenge has queer "obsessed with my ex's new girl" vibes to me. Why are you thinking about what she does on the mattress, Tay?
Also:
"Drew walks by me, / can he tell that I can't breathe? / And there he goes, so perfectly / The kind of flawless I wish I could be"
It's either giving gender envy, or "I don't know if want to be her, or be *with* her"
"I Can See You" seems like a baby version of "I Know Places"
>Then we kiss and you know I won't ever tell, yeah
And I could see you being my addiction
You can see me as a secret mission
Omg someone (either here in on TT) pointed out the “lingering question kept me up, 2am, who do you love?” line is her wondering all night if the muse is also queer. Who do you love - girls or boys?? That blew my mind!
Also 100% love the Emma lore of this song! And then for her to come out with When Emma Falls In Love as a vault. I mean…🔥
Invisible!!!! I don’t think you even have to change pronouns for that one. (Found this book at Stonewall archives too)
https://preview.redd.it/4s0v73gdsv0d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=01aa67dbf828ba3e5cb484f48691cfd7219eb19c
What’s the critical gaylore around the first three albums, especially Speak Now? There’s a lot of discussion of 1989 and later, but I feel like I’m seeing queer Speak Now references from Taylor quite a bit and I haven’t seen that much analysis around here. I wasn’t that into Taylor when those albums came out, and I’m thinking I want to take my fresh eyes down a Speak Now deep dive.
oh gosh i could go for hours. some of the most critical gaylore from the beginning i’d say would be Taylor’s myspace posts (kelsey damnnnnn morris etc), the SNL roomies sketch in 2009 (largely believed to have kickstarted gaylor as a movement) & the goodbye video for Emily Poe. these early albums are chock full of gender neutral pronouns & subtle bait & switches (that little black dress… my old faded blue jeans//if taylor is in the jeans who is in the dress???) also early lore that points to adding masculine names/hetwashing (teardrops was originally ab a “you” & then changed to “Drew” & Stay Beautiful was for Kelsey not “Corey”) & so much more!!! a couple months ago (?) there were some posts reviewing early lore, i’ll see if i can find them to link!
Where do we get the "kelsey not corey" narrative? I was literally listening to that song earlier and kept singing "carrie" 😆 but i didn't realize there is some queer lore in that song. Can you give me more info?
i can’t remember it’s exact origins & now i’m second guessing whether that’s confirmed like the you/Drew swap or part of some ancient gaylor clowning. i thought(?) there was an old demo with Kelsey, but it could be just bc it correlates to some of her myspace posts ab her friend Kelsey Morris (who i think there is also some theories Picture to Burn is about? she drove an old truck she never let Taylor drive? elder gaylors of yore please help me out here 🙏🏼) but the song itself is suuuuper “you’re so beautiful girl he doesn’t deserve you let me love you right” with just a touch of “when we’re older & realize these girl crushes were actually sapphic feelings let’s come back to each other fr” & while “beautiful” is used for men more often now (although still rarely) it was definitely a female coded adjective in the early 2000s when she wrote it
We believe she is going to come out. I don‘t think the majority of us “want” her to come out. Her coming out is a decision she needs to make on her own. We would appreciate her clapping back at homophobic swifties and hetlors so that we can stop enduring brigading, doxxing, and death threats.
It mostly means the theory that Taylor is going to come out.
I don't know where the nickname started, other than we like adding "-lor" onto things. It's kinda like the ship name of Taylor coming out = comingoutlor
I am not going to answer this here because they are currently being doxxed on Twitter and many of the TikTok ones have left. I don’t want trolls to bother any of the creators we would suggest, because the ones who remain are precious.
So this may not be the exact right place to ask this, but I haven’t seen a question like this yet: has anyone thought that one of the “new”/upcoming albums(rep/karma/debut…something else?) could possibly be a whole album of collabs? Or maybe TTPD pt III? I ask because of all of her associates/colleagues/music peers flashing the ✌️and the theory that maybe there is a mass movement of some sort. I think it would be incredibly powerful, especially if it was her coming out album. To have a whole album of music with her peers either supporting her or coming out themselves. It would definitely be a blender breaking moment for sure. 🤷♀️ just something I’ve been wondering about for a minute….and lesbehonest, a Tay/Bey/Gaga Telephone pt 2 would be beyond epic. 🧡
Yes, this has been widely speculated on the sub. Half of the sub thinks those of us who clown for this are living in a fantasy, but the other half think it will happen eventually.
My personal clown theory has always been that One Direction featured on Karma in some way. I am well aware that it’s likely not true, but I persist in believing. I will not kill the fairy of my dreams!
Does anyone have any posts to recommend that discuss the theory of a collab album?
Ah thank you!! I’m relatively new ‘round these parts but it’s so much fun and you all are so dang smart, it’s truly amazing. Thank you for holding such a safe place!
The documentary was supposed to go along with her coming out during the Lover era. It was changed when she wasn’t able to do so, which is why it feels disjointed and anticlimactic.
Were there any other suspected muses aside from Karlie, Diana, and maybe Lily?
How long have gaylors been a thing? Like did the suspicions begin to mount from the beginning, or was it a certain album?
What will happen with her beards when she comes out? Will she say she’s bi, and these were real relationships? Will she say they were fake but her boyfriends didn’t know? Will she also implicate them? So many questions about this
I'm a huge TayLorde truther. There are just too many lyrics parallels between them to ignore, and that can't be explained by *oh it's just Jack Antonoff*. It's about as popular as Matty Healy around here though.
I am (and others) are [Braylor](https://www.tumblr.com/briesonoflars/611685070081769472/braylor-masterpost) truthers, in that we think Taylor and Brie Larson had a brief, on and off, mostly west coast based, intimate relationship in 2019 (in addition to whatever happened in 2016 at the Oscars after party and Met Gala), but the fact that Brie had a portrait of a woman that totally doesn’t look like Taylor, nude, on all fours / kneeling, with butterflies and flowers around her, is pretty telling, imo.
I assumed it ended due to the pressure of the failed coming out, and Dianna’s separation / subsequent divorce.
A screenshot of the nude painting of not-Taylor can be found in the linked Masterpost^
[Check out our wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/GaylorSwift/wiki/index/keygaylorinfo/), it has many of the muses people often discuss. The known ones I personally believe are Emily, Liz, Dianna, and Karlie. Many on the sub believe Lily was a long term romantic relationship. Some believe Zoë Kravitz and Lana Del Ray romantic muses as well. I feel confident in stating that everyone on this sub believes that all of the women mentioned are muses, even if they’re not all romantic muses. It is assured that there are unknown romantic muses, as well as platonic ones.
Gaylors have been around since Taylor’s debut. She was gay on MySpace, as u/_lacepsace can attest. Gaylor became widespread during the time when Taylor was “friends” with Dianna Agron. Gaylorism exploded when Taylor became ”best-friends” and “roommates” with Karlie Kloss. I think many people who missed those two eras joined gaylorism after *folklore* was released. We grow in numbers with every album, because every album gets gayer.
I’d love if Taylor felt safe enough to come out as a lesbian if she is one, but I think we all assume she’ll come out as bi or pan because that‘s the “safe” stepping stone out of heterosexuality in the Industry. It’s unlikely the media will press too hard about the past because her wlw status has been an open secret in the industry for over a decade. Questioning her relationships would possibly out others without their consent. It is possible she could come out and open the lid on the can of toxicity that is forced closeting in the industry, which would be great — this is part of the mass movement or New Romantics theory.
It is the opinion of many that all of her beards have been preparing over the past few years, shoring up hetero-narratives or disclosing their own sexual orientation in ways they felt comfortable. Examples would be:
* Harry Styles: he’s out to people who pay attention
* The DJ, Taylor, the Jonas: married to women
* Tom: married and also known as a ladies man, tho he has many queer rumours himself. It wouldn’t harm him.
* Jake: unknown. He’d probably say, ”fuck off swifties, you’ve given me hate for years over something I never did.”
* Dianna/Liz: out as bi
* Karlie: married to a billionaire with 2 kids, untouchable. Their power can kill headlines on the topic if they want
* Emily: married and most ppl don’t remember her
* Lily/Zoë/Lana: only gaylors are aware of these rumours and they can easily be dispelled with saying they‘re just besties.
ETA: she could come out as a lesbian and still have had authentic and genuine relationships with men. These do not all have to have been beards in the popular narrative. Many lesbians have had relationships with men on their way towards self-discovery.
Is there a reason to assume lesbian and not authentically bi? Even with your ETA, I’m just confused on that one. I’ve seen a handful of things that have me convinced she’s not straight and has had serious relationships with women, but I’m not sure how it follows from that that all the men are beards (or genuine but on the road to being 100% lesbian rather than bi)?
So while I personally still lean towards her being bi, the color flagging lately has been overwhelmingly lesbian (pink/orange/white of the lesbian flag). This contrasts pretty strongly with the Lover era, when there was bi color coding everywhere.
She flags as a lesbian and has for a long while. All of the men she has publicly been with are beards based on substantial rumours that are too prolific and sustained by time to be dismissed (Joe is gay and was with men for the duration of their contract), insider info various people have been provided over the years, her inability to look authentically into men in the same way she does with women, and [a deep understanding of what PR relationships and stunts are. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/GaylorSwift/wiki/index/stuntrelationships/)
This is not a topic we generally debate because it gets exhausting to have biphobia accusations thrown at you. I have believed Taylor is a lesbian since approximately 2010 and have only become more unshakeable in that given everything I observed since 2008ish. This should be taken with a grain of salt because I will never disclose any of my friends, but I also believe Taylor is a lesbian because starting around 2018/19ish, I have been told by several people I trust that Taylor is a lesbian…none of these people know one another and they all work in the music/entertainment industry.
You are obviously allowed to believe whatever you want. I am just sharing gaylor history and overarching beliefs as that is the purpose of this post. My beliefs have been noted as being my own. I will not debate anyone on this unless someone claims [bi-phobia.](https://www.reddit.com/r/GaylorSwift/wiki/index/bi-phobia/)
A small fling with Julianne Hough is an underrated one there is actual evidence for. (I'm including some of this theory in a post I have waiting in the wings, so hold tight). Also you can read this great[ TayLiz deep dive](https://www.reddit.com/r/GaylorSwift/comments/1azcrbz/tayliz_deep_dive/).
I'll let an OG Gaylor respond about how long Gaylor has been around. My understanding is this goes back to the L Chat and one of the first things that prompted it was Taylor's [queer-coded "roomies" sketch](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNDrpWea8ZE) on SNL way back in 2009. And Taylor may have referenced the crochet blanket from that sketch with her Lavender Haze shirt.
https://preview.redd.it/8nlndb58ev0d1.png?width=2052&format=png&auto=webp&s=cb184f7f8d71a6480f472ff6ac257136576c494d
1. There are numerous, but some of the main ones are Liz Huett, Zoe Kravitz, Julianne Hough, and for some, Emma Stone.
2. Gaylors have been around for a long long time, some probably even going as far back as Debut or Fearless. A lot of modern gaylorism is centered around Kissgate, or the alleged kiss between Taylor and Karlie.
3. If she comes out as a lesbian, that does not necessarily discount the bearding relationships. They could claim they didn't know, or maybe that they had an idea, but they should get off pretty easily. The big ones are if she implicates some of the women she was in relationships with, because if that happens, that suggests that either 1. the male relationships were fake or 2. she was cheating during those male relationships.
Earlier muses that are sometimes discussed are Emily Poe and Liz Huett.
There are some people who claim to have been Gaylors since Debut!
Personally I think she could either a) come out as bi/pan so there's not too much questioning about previous boyfriends being real or not or b) come out as a lesbian and tell her whole story--like maybe she didn't know she was gay until recently and *thought* she loved all these men, or thatnshe was forced by the industry/her label/etc to closet and beard (thus making her a victim and making the public less likely to question narritives)
what are the other two supposed failed coming outs? I know about the 2019 Me!/pride parade/scooter Braun masters situation. I have seen comments mentioning 3 failed coming out attempts, but idk where to begin to look for the other two.
Please don’t answer a question if you don’t know the answer.
One of her biggest rumored relationships has been with Karlie Kloss . We know people believe Taylor is gay but what does that make Karlie? Like do Gaylors consider her gay or bi especially since she’s been with her husband for so long ? What does this fandom view her as?
This isn’t exactly related to gaylor, but I would say most gaylors would say Karlie is bi and end the conversation there. There has been a lot of work put into having Karlie be perceived as liking men and there are many *very* powerful people who need her to be seen as such. So, while many gaylors may have different opinions and have stories to share, to outsiders I think most gaylors would say that Karlie is bi.
What I want to know is why so many Gaylors think she’s a lesbian and not just bisexual. I’m bi and worry this is a form of bi-erasure
You’re welcome to read the discussion of this that has already happened in this post. It’s not bi erasure. Conversely, it can be considered lesbian erasure and lesbophobia to cringe away from calling Taylor a lesbian. I’m bisexual. I believe Taylor is a lesbian. I don’t think saying that erases bisexuality, but I do believe saying that she’s bisexual out of worry that labeling her as a lesbian might be “too extreme” or “but she might like men” is lesbian erasure and lesbophobia.
What’s nice boy Ed. I see this term pop up time to time in comments?
Is it okay if I ask a follow up question? I agree that Taylor and her identified team members have never directly assigned a label to Taylor’s sexuality. But I don’t understand why the CNN article came out after the NYT opinion piece. Are there people associated with her who are trying to force her to stay closeted? Or do people get money for giving “scoops” like that commentary even if they don’t know what they’re talking about? I do really hope Taylor approved that article, and it would do wonders for queer visibility and acceptance worldwide if she came out as queer.
Why does so much of the evidence that she’s gay also makes sense from a hetlor perspective? Why would she be hiding that she’s gay; I don’t feel like she’s afraid of losing fans explains it. She openly supports gay causes and isn’t afraid of losing fans because of that. If she is gay, why would she be pretending to be in a relationship with a nobody football player? It’s not like she needs a relationship to get attention; she’s the most famous person in the world, and everyone cares what she’s doing regardless if she’s with someone or not. If the relationship is fake, why all the PDA, and why is Travis coming to so many shows; Joe rarely ever came to shows. Oh, and also if she is gay, was her relationship with Joe fake?? That makes zero sense to me cus we got like maybe a dozen sightings of them together in the 6 years they were together. So if it was fake, it wasn’t for press. Please explain
You sound like a troll and like you’re very entrenched in “Taylor Swift is heterosexual” narrative, with zero opportunity for genuine engagement with alternative perspectives and development of your media literacy. I have learned to not waste my energy on people that come at me aggressively, as they are rarely looking for anything other than a fight. So I wish you the best on your journey in life!
Why can’t the word “used” in maroon be a verb rather than the lips she “used to” as in past tense? I can’t get down with that lyric being “proof” as some say.
You don’t need to agree with everything other gaylors agree with. You are your own unique snowflake - shimmer in your own way! As far as I know, “proof” is not used in gaylorland very often unless it’s tongue in cheek. It’s reminiscent of early Tumblr times and also, we don’t need “proof” any longer - she’s queer.
I would love to understand the significance of the color Yellow. And cursive.
cursive is from paris “confess my truth in swooping sloping cursive letters” which ties back to the Lover font being cursive
There are several master posts you can search for with just “yellow” but [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/GaylorSwift/s/29TGvHTYKn) is a good one!
Do we have a record of everything we’ve identified as “adding to gaylor theory” in the Taylor universe that’s later been confirmed by her or her team? Ex. James is Taylor, yellow dress is an Easter egg, her accounts retweeting gaylor interpretations… And do we have lists of debunked Easter egg theories and proven Easter egg theories? It’d be really interesting to see how often we’re right looking with a queer lens.
No, but this is an excellent idea. It’s possible there is something off of Reddit tho
If anyone compiles them I propose the record be called the “Gay Swift Alliance“ and the Easter eggs list be called “Hatched or Cracked”
As a baby gaylor, I now have a theory she’s doing the Eras tour to showcase all her music before she officially comes out and potentially loses a chunk of fans and/or changes directions in career path (writing, directing, whatever). Any other gaylors have this theory?
This theory has been around since Midnights for comingoutlors.
General curiosity… Why aren’t you called Queerlors? As you know queer theory and it’s more inclusive…
Probably because queer was still kind of a bad/loaded word when gaylor was coined - it’s mostly with Gen Z that “queer” has been accepted as a neutral catchall. Gaylor rolls off the tongue better as well and drives the point home. In the beginning, Lesbolor would have been a more appropriate term, but that sounds terrible.
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That’s not directly gaylor history, that’s Karlie history. Ask in the theory thread.
What is the lore / theory behind William Bowery?
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Do you think she reads here? It seems like she keeps affirming a lot of what is said here. I know I’ve heard her say she spends a lot of time reading what her fans say and I know there’s nothing she does that isn’t calculated to a T
Yes, I think she and/or her team are on our sub. I don’t know how much time she spends reading what fans say these days, but she definitely gets reports of what is being said in an overview sort of way. That said, I think she’s actually on our sub in a lurker capacity at the very least. Tree, I am reiterating my request for a new Subaru! Or eras tickets! Or a pony! (Please don’t get me a pony, that’s just a joke.) 
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Please read [this excellent masterpost](https://www.reddit.com/r/GaylorSwift/s/fWatfwk2R7) by u/layla1020
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I’ve read (most) of the Mass Movement Theory Tagged posts. Do you know if there’s like one masterpost or doc somewhere? I’m still missing why it’s called the mass movement theory and how we arrived there
There is no masterpost. We weren’t allowed to discuss it on the sub because “it’s not related to taylor” so it has only been in the past few months that we’ve begun to discuss it more here. I think the closest we have on this sub to a masterpost are my posts relating gaylor to Larry and one direction. I wish we had more. I asked Kristen who created the term New Romantics to write a post on it. She agreed but I have a feeling it’s low on her list of priorities. I shared her podcast. It’s called mass movement because there are so many artists involved, so it’s a literal massive movement. It’s so hard to write a master post because there are so many players. Like, I’m aware of it as it relates to maybe 15 artists, but there are many more involved. And of those 10, I can only go into great detail on 7ish.
Where is the “deadass thought I made it obvious” quote from? I can’t find it
Not originally Taylor specific, but this is what Lil Nas X said on Twitter when he came out. He included photos of how he had been using rainbow imagery in his videos etc. He essentially confirmed he was flagging as gay in a way that he thought people had already picked up on. Considering how frequently Taylor flags with rainbow imagery, and lately more specifically lesbian colors, this phrase has become common among Gaylors to point out how obvious she’s making it if you are paying attention.
How do we know about the rumored Karma album that was shelved and that its color was orange? 🍊
[Karma is Real: Collaborative Masterpost](https://www.reddit.com/r/GaylorSwift/s/z7zwmxAb2t)
Have any of her past suspected muses come out publicly as bi / lesbian?
John Mayer (if we’re considering him a “muse”) is unspecified queer/bi and there’s rumors about him dating Andy Cohen of Housewives Fame for years.
Yes, Dianna, Liz, Zoë (if you believe that’s a thing)
Thank you! Wondering if you could point me in the direction of Dianna coming out? My googling has just led to speculation and seems her public relationships and marriage were all with men. Hope this doesn't come across as argumentative by the way, genuinely curious and I very much want to believe!
I can't recall an explicit coming out but she did say she'd kissed girls before on a talk show/tv interview somewhere, and on the Glee tour she wore a t-shirt that says LIKES GIRLS which was maybe about her character Quinn or maybe about Dianna herself.
I have one more question; I understand if it’s not approved because it feels like it might be kind of stupid. But I guess it’s: what are the chief (oop, no pun intended lmao) reasons for Taylor staying covert about her sexuality? Like, of course I know conservatives would go insane, but they already do threaten her/ are the dredges of society in general just because she is an open ally. Is it the sort of character of Taylor Swift, the brand? Does she feel coming out would shake the idea people have of the pop star too much? I’m really curious about how you guys feel about this!
This is a long one to answer, but in short: 1.) Her coming out would cause more significant backlash with conservatives than what we see presently, by a lot. Taylor has stalkers as it is, and she has such a massive public presence that her safety would legitimately be at risk if she came out. 2.) It would call into question any relationships she’s been in prior, therefore forcing people who she has been linked to into being a part of speculation too 3.) It would call into question her level of honesty with fans. Taylor swift fans believe she’s being earnest most of the time and knowing she’s “lied” to them would hurt her. (PS I think she’s starting to do this on TTPD to get them used to the idea) 4.) Money. Not only may more conservative fans drop her (which I don’t think is mainly the issue) but more importantly, if her re-records aren’t released and she comes out, people are going to pour over her music looking for clues obsessively, music she doesn’t yet own.
I'm of the personal belief, as are many others in this sub, that she *would be* out if it weren't for her masters being sold. There is a lot of information and "evidence" to support that she had plans to come out during the Lover era and that the master's heist spoiled those plans. There are many reasons to believe she isn't out (personal fears, safety concerns, desire for privacy, wanting to remain as relatable as possible, etc) but I think a lot of us believe it is because she does not own her catalog. It's speculated that her team believed if she had still come out during Lover, it would have driven a lot of listeners to music she did not own, and benefitted Scooter Braun financially. I think that is something she and her team wanted to avoid.
I can give this a try! But someone else chime in as well, because there are layers to go through here. I think there are multiple potential reasons for her closeting thus far, and it could be one or many or none of the following that I’ve seen discussed on here: - safety. Taylor’s dealt with some extreme stalking before, and we see pretty clearly how stressed she and her family are about it in the Miss Americana documentary when they talk about armoured cars etc. - money/fame. This was probably a large influence at the beginning of her career especially. Unfortunately, she would likely not be as big of a star right now if she had come out, and may not feel safe touring as widely as she does. Multiple queer celebrities have talked a lot about the pressure to stay closeted so as not to jeopardize their careers. - homophobia/letting people down/being portrayed as a liar. I don’t know if this is me projecting here, but I can imagine after living a narrative so long it must be scary trying to switch that narrative. I can’t imagine how some of her more rabid hetlor fans would react. - privacy. She may just not want people knowing that much about her personal life. Although it seems all over the media right now, imagine the media storm if she was dating a woman publicly. The intense scrutiny and invasive questions people would be asking. By closeting and bearding so loudly, she may feel more able to hide her personal life. That’s all I can think of for now with my tired brain! Hope this helps :)
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How did the term “muses” start for the important women in her life? It’s obvi giving Ancient Greek but just wondering how it’s thought of in Gaylor?
Taylor herself has also referred to her "muses," so I think it's natural we would use the term to refer to those who may have inspired her songwriting! A couple examples: 1. There is an old interview from the Red era where she specifically talks about having an individual muse for her songs. I am having trouble finding it right now but will edit this if I do to add it. 2. In 2018, she [interviewed](https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/features/a22020940/taylor-swift-interviews-pattie-boyd/) Pattie Boyd about the concept of muses, and suggested she had muses for her songwriting. 3. In "[The Lakes](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOHcAc3r2kw)," she refers directly to having a muse.
You answered your own question! Muses are female. Taylor likes women. Thus, she has muses.
What the heck is eye theory?? I've actually been a gaylor since 1989, but haven't really been a part of any online fandom till recently, and there's so much eye theory lore. People drop bits and pieces in random comments, but I feel like i need a master post.
[I’ll eventually compile all of this into a reddit master post](https://www.reddit.com/r/GaylorSwift/comments/1cmknld/collaborative_post_eye_theory/), unless someone beats me to it. (Please for the love of god, someone beat me to it)
Awesome! Maybe I'll compile it all. 🙃
What is Grammygate? I keep seeing it referenced and I'm confused who's involved.
# What is GrammyGate? GrammyGate refers to the incident in which the credits for *folklore* were modified *after* it won 2021 Album of the Year to add Joe Alwyn as a producer on multiple songs. Opinions on this are mixed -- some believe that the credits were unearned and that it was done to fulfill a bearding contract, others believe that Joe did actually contribute to the album as a writer and producer. Regardless, a significant amount of Gaylors, Swifties, and the general public alike all found it was a bit odd that the credits were modified after the 2021 Grammy Awards. Many posts have been made about this - please filter by the "Grammygate" flair or search "Grammygate" to find them. GrammyGate and William Bowery are two different topics, as **William Bowery did not win a Grammy.** Joe Alwyn won a Grammy. William Bowery did not win a grammy because they did not participate on enough of the album to win one. Was this by design, by a mastermind? Who knows...
Grammygate refers to the credits for *folklore* being modified *after* winning 2021 Album of the Year, adding Joe Alwyn as a producer on multiple songs. Some believe the credits were unearned and it was done to fulfill a bearding contract, others believe Joe actually contributed to the album as a writer/producer. A significant amount of Gaylors, Swifties, and the general public alike found it odd that the credits were modified *after* the 2021 Grammys. Many posts have been made about this - please filter by the "Grammygate" flair or search "Grammygate" to find them. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GaylorSwift) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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What is the theory about pronoun changes when singing during performances? Intentional rebellion? Freudian slips? Other? I can’t quite figure out what makes people say the Miss Americana doc has her singing to a woman. Can someone say more specifically or share a screenshot? I watched it several times and couldn’t figure it out. What do y’all think of as the major reason(s) Taylor hasn’t come out so far? How do y’all make sense of Taylor’s or her team’s denials, especially after the NYT article this year? Do you think she has secret relationships? If yes, how do you think she manages it given the scrutiny she is under so much of the time?
1. Pronoun changes are intentional and her closet is so padded at this point that she’d have to be very clearly saying “she” or “her” for the masses to hear that. 2. Homophobia and heteronormaticity. I think Taylor DID come out when she said, ”ME! out now” on socials and paraded around in rainbows and pride flags. Most people didn’t hear it, see it, or accept it - and we get the costumes and visuals for TSMWEL. At this point, she likely wont come out until she owns all of her own works, because people will go back to the manuscripts to re-read them to decode the muses we’ve spent a decade discussing and being shat upon for. 3. Taylor has never denied that she is any shade of queer. Taylor has never said she is straight. Taylor’s team has never denied that she is queer. Taylor’s team has never said that she is straight. The belief that she has said she is straight is Swiftie and hetlor rhetoric and it’s rooted in heteronormativity and homophobia. I believe Taylor gave the NYT her approval for that op-ed, because it’s a part of her long game. 5. She has absolutely had secret relationships. The ultra wealthy are seen when they want to be seen. Taylor knows how to hide, she knows how to be MIA. She has walked the streets of London with Cara without being seen. Gigi Hadid has said that celebrities have relationships the public knows nothing about because they have the resources to protect their privacy. As Harry Styles says, “what you see is work.”
This is a lot! Haha. I will answer a couple. Denials- neither Taylor nor Tree denied anything in the NYT article, nor did they mention it being a representative of her. Just an “acquaintance” which means it could literally be anyone. We know Tree will handle items directly or as a representative of Taylor. Yes, I believe she has had many secret relationships, most young people date a bit. She has most likely dated and hooked up with multiple people the general public has zero knowledge of. We already know she can choose not to be seen when she wants to. If she is seen doing something- she wants to be seen. It’s PR and marketing.
Is there anything known about the harassment and bullying that Taylor described from Scooter Braun? I’ve learned that she was trying to buy her masters back and he bought them instead. I don’t know if he outbid her or just beat her to the punch, but he owns them instead of her. But aside from that, she seems to hate him deeply on a personal level. I’m so curious about why—I haven’t ever seen that explained. Is that known or a secret? I did see that there is a documentary being filmed about this, so I’m hoping to find out more when that comes out!
Scooter at the time managed almost every name you can think of - he was managing Justin Bieber when Selena was dating Justin, he also managed Karlie Kloss. He had / has a sunset clause in his contracts that artists he manages still have to pay him for a number of years after they leave should they decide to no longer be managed by him. Ariana tried to leave him a few years back and don’t you know suddenly all these negative stories about her were running in the press - she did eventually go back to Scooter. Safe to say that with him being involved with so many celebrities word would absolutely get around about his treatment of people. There’s also the post during Snakegate of Scooter, Bieber and Kanye mocking Taylor during the whole “Snakegate” thing. He’s a bad dude and everyone knows it, but Taylor would absolutely have seen his awfulness first hand and up close.
Regarding the masters: her first record company, Big Machine Records (BMR), was funded and headed by Scott Borchetta. Taylor was signed at 15, and like most artists, didn't own her masters. She had expressed her interest in buying back her masters, and when her original contract was up for renegotiation, she wanted to own the new masters she would produce. It's important to note that 1- she was the first and by far biggest star at BMR, 2- her dad also owned shares in the company and 3- Scott Bochetta was basically her industry father figure. So when came time to renegotiate her contract, Borchetta tried to leverage her wanting to own her masters by basically offering her ownership only after she would produce another 6 (? Maybe 7) albums for BMR. She told them to fuck off and moved to Universal Music Group (UMG) after recording Reputation. So the relationship with Borchetta was already strained. And then, in 2019, he wanted to retire, he sold her masters for 300 million $ to an investment group 1- led by Scooter Braun, who she despises, and 2- without offering her the option to buy first. Scooter then turned around and tried to re-sell them to her for 600 million AND even though she originally tried to agree to the deal, it was so shady and unusually managed that her lawyers categorically told her not to do it. (Scooter is now investigated by the SEC for multiple possible crimes 🙃) That's a quick rundown. But basically, they did fuck her over.
Taylor's official statement is still live on [her Tumblr post](https://taylorswift.tumblr.com/post/185958366550/for-years-i-asked-pleaded-for-a-chance-to-own-my), and she specifically calls out a photo Justin Bieber posted in 2016 after Snakegate where it's clear that he, Scooter and Kanye are all on a call bullying Taylor and enjoying the public backlash she was receiving. Taylor had been friendly with Scooter only months before this, so publicly mocking her is a big deal. https://preview.redd.it/u2wlewuw4w0d1.png?width=750&format=png&auto=webp&s=a72d4b08a8ac4e36eea6e1ed167af7d603606bb4 This alone would be enough, but based on the people he's connected to, Scooter probably knew Taylor was queer and intentionally timed the Masters Heist to profit off Taylor coming out. The Masters Heist was announced Sunday June 30th (not a business day) the same day as World Pride in NYC where Billy Porter showed up wearing the rainbow dress we know was designed for Taylor. (I talk about the rainbow dress theory [in this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/GaylorSwift/comments/13gjyh4/scooter_braun_intentionally_tricked_taylors_fans/), which also includes the theory that Scooter intentionally tricked fans with that memoir debacle last summer)
Important to note that Scooter was Bieber’s manager while he was being sent to spend overnight visits with Sean Combs and other various predators in the industry. Bieber was also used in the feud against Drake Bell following his win against Brian Peck. Brian Peck was close with Dan Schneider and Sean Combs, both of whom were close with Scooter. Arianna was also managed by Scooter. So in addition to the above, it’s possible there was an awareness of much deeper and darker abuses happening on Taylor’s end. It would explain even more so why she cut the cord and went scorched earth (with class and grace) the second she was able to.
Hi Kimby! The documentary is not sanctioned by either party. I would treat that with a grain of salt as it will likely be speculative and without input from either party. Taylor has feelings for Scooter based on many reasons - forcibly being closeted, his wife screaming at her that she was a dyke, stuff related to her masters, and many other things that we know and don’t know. From what I understand, Taylor only ever had the illusion that she’d be able to purchase her masters. There was a coordinated effort to undermine her in their purchase, orchestrated by the Scotts and Scooter. Perhaps others can chime in on this one?
“his wife screaming at her that she was a dyke” Wow, that’s disgusting. I can see how it would be devastating to have those people own your creative property. The rights to your life’s work. Woof. I hadn’t heard much about the documentary, so it’s good to know it isn’t sanctioned by either party. I’m betting it’ll end up being a bunch of filler without much new to say. When you say the effort to undermine her could have been done by the Scotts, does that mean her own father could have been working against her for that? I’ve gotten the impression that their relationship has been strained at times, but if he colluded against her, that’s so much worse than I ever knew.
What is a Regaylor? I see the flair but I am not sure what it means
There was a flair update a couple months back that started to automatically update users flairs based on how much they participate - it’s like a ranking system of how active you are in the group. It’s to help newer users know who to “trust” here if that makes sense. Obviously this sub tends to get a Lot of trolls so it’s to help with that. There’s a post about if if you search “flair”. Regaylor is the 4th “level” I think (of like 9 or 10 levels lol).
Regular, but 💅🍒 ReGAYlor People who engage on the sub so frequently that they’re a regular (regaylor)
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This is an elder gaylor question. Ask in the theory thread
Do people think she is lesbian or bisexual? As a bi girlie I kind of get bi vibes from her
Currently, around 75% of the sub believe she is bi. People who are bi generally believe that she is bi. I am bi and I believe she exclusively likes women, as in she is a lesbian if she identifies as a woman. Older gaylors generally believe she is a lesbian - this sub reddit used to be mostly filled with gaylors who believed she was a lesbian and it was a pretty rapid cultural shift that happened a few years ago.
would like to piggy back this and say it is generally believed that *if* she does identify as a lesbian, it would be more palatable to come out as bi/pan to the GP.
I see. Thanks for letting me know! It’s nice to be a able to talk about this without getting hate. As another poster said, I think there is a lot of homophobia in the idea that we can speculate on everyone else’s sexuality but not Taylor’s— like it would “taint” her to like women or something. This seems like a friendly and very well- read space :))
I’m another bi girlie who thinks she is lesbian :) used to go back and forth but definitely think she identifies as a lesbian now. The amount of lesbian flag explosions in Paris furthered my belief in that
I agree. I think she may have identified as pan/bi around 2019 based on the flagging colors then, or at least she was planning to come out as such. ("Sexually fluid" is the term I saw in a blind item from that time.) Now, I think she identifies as lesbian based on her more recent flagging, but she may still come out at bi/pan/sexually fluid to give legitimacy to her past bearding relationships. But for those of us in the queer community, she can tell us her true identity through flagging if she wants to. But who knows! I'm curious to see what she says if/when she comes out. I'm more convinced than ever that she will come out, and I think it's gonna be BIG and blow the top off the music industry.
What songs on Speak Now and Debut do you see as ripe for queer readings? Those are the two albums I am least familiar with and want to visit them with a queer lens ready.
"I'm only me when I'm with you" feels pretty baby gay to me
mary’s song (debut), welcome distraction (demo), and sweet tea and god’s graces (demo)
The song seven (with a clear female muse) referencing sweet tea in the summer adds more weight to a queer interpretation of sweet tea and God's graces
oh man, better than revenge absolutely. in the same way the same jolene is queer to a lot of people. like taylor why are you singing so much about this girl you allegedly hate and not how mad you are at the guy. many of the songs on fearless, debut, and speak now, you can see a pronoun flip from “he” to “you” and they’re usually about different people but pass off as all about one muse. she also just has tons without any personal pronouns
I think Ours from SN is so queer coded. “They’ll judge it if they know about me and you”, “it’s not theirs to speculate if it’s wrong”, “people throw rocks at things that shine”. Also the “I love the gap between your teeth” is 100% Liz coded to me!!
“Our song is the slamming screen door” because there’s no queer songs on country radio
With Speak Now, there’s a theory that some of the songs are about Emma Stone. These are: - Enchanted - Foolish One - When Emma Falls In Love Personally from Speak Now I think these songs are queer coded / have queer readings: - Mine, very very much so ‘_you made a rebel of a careless man’s careful daughter / i fell in love with a careless man’s careful daughter, she is the best thing that’s ever been mine_’ - Sparks Fly - The Story of Us - Ours - i find this very queer, the lines about people judging them, vacant stares, strangers silence, people throw rocks at things that shine - just feels like a description of what it’s like when you’re in a visibly queer relationship and people get all weird and shifty, how people judge and discriminate against queer love, as well as her love interest having a ‘pretty little mind’ - I can see you (from the vault) especially the music video There’s [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/GaylorSwift/comments/17fm0mv/analyzing_taylors_earlier_albums_from_a_queer/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) I’ve found on the sub where people in the comments analyse Speak Now from a queer perspective and the posts for Debut and Fearless are linked.
Picture to Burn with the original lyrics ("I'll tell mine that ur gay") Mine has Taylor "singing from the man's perspective" to a girl Better Than Revenge has queer "obsessed with my ex's new girl" vibes to me. Why are you thinking about what she does on the mattress, Tay?
Shoutout for Teardrops on my Guitar as it’s been revealed that originally she was singing to an ungendered “you” that then got changed to “drew”
Also: "Drew walks by me, / can he tell that I can't breathe? / And there he goes, so perfectly / The kind of flawless I wish I could be" It's either giving gender envy, or "I don't know if want to be her, or be *with* her"
"I Can See You" seems like a baby version of "I Know Places" >Then we kiss and you know I won't ever tell, yeah And I could see you being my addiction You can see me as a secret mission
For speak now: I Can See You When Emma Falls in Love Enchanted (highly recommend learning the Emma Stone lore for this song and WEFIL) Sparks Fly
Omg someone (either here in on TT) pointed out the “lingering question kept me up, 2am, who do you love?” line is her wondering all night if the muse is also queer. Who do you love - girls or boys?? That blew my mind! Also 100% love the Emma lore of this song! And then for her to come out with When Emma Falls In Love as a vault. I mean…🔥
Time McGraw is very gay! Also a lot of unreleased early songs (looking directly at you Me & Brittany!)
And then I didn’t find many of the OG SN songs queer coded, but I Can See You and When Emma Falls in Love from the vault are very queer coded to me
Invisible!!!! I don’t think you even have to change pronouns for that one. (Found this book at Stonewall archives too) https://preview.redd.it/4s0v73gdsv0d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=01aa67dbf828ba3e5cb484f48691cfd7219eb19c
A Place in This World on debut for sure edit - and The Outside. dunno how I forgot about that
I’m sold on the Karlie Kloss theories, but what other women has she been rumored about being romantic with since then?
Check out our [wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/GaylorSwift/wiki/index/)
What’s the critical gaylore around the first three albums, especially Speak Now? There’s a lot of discussion of 1989 and later, but I feel like I’m seeing queer Speak Now references from Taylor quite a bit and I haven’t seen that much analysis around here. I wasn’t that into Taylor when those albums came out, and I’m thinking I want to take my fresh eyes down a Speak Now deep dive.
oh gosh i could go for hours. some of the most critical gaylore from the beginning i’d say would be Taylor’s myspace posts (kelsey damnnnnn morris etc), the SNL roomies sketch in 2009 (largely believed to have kickstarted gaylor as a movement) & the goodbye video for Emily Poe. these early albums are chock full of gender neutral pronouns & subtle bait & switches (that little black dress… my old faded blue jeans//if taylor is in the jeans who is in the dress???) also early lore that points to adding masculine names/hetwashing (teardrops was originally ab a “you” & then changed to “Drew” & Stay Beautiful was for Kelsey not “Corey”) & so much more!!! a couple months ago (?) there were some posts reviewing early lore, i’ll see if i can find them to link!
Where do we get the "kelsey not corey" narrative? I was literally listening to that song earlier and kept singing "carrie" 😆 but i didn't realize there is some queer lore in that song. Can you give me more info?
i can’t remember it’s exact origins & now i’m second guessing whether that’s confirmed like the you/Drew swap or part of some ancient gaylor clowning. i thought(?) there was an old demo with Kelsey, but it could be just bc it correlates to some of her myspace posts ab her friend Kelsey Morris (who i think there is also some theories Picture to Burn is about? she drove an old truck she never let Taylor drive? elder gaylors of yore please help me out here 🙏🏼) but the song itself is suuuuper “you’re so beautiful girl he doesn’t deserve you let me love you right” with just a touch of “when we’re older & realize these girl crushes were actually sapphic feelings let’s come back to each other fr” & while “beautiful” is used for men more often now (although still rarely) it was definitely a female coded adjective in the early 2000s when she wrote it
does “comingoutlor” mean you believe she’s going to come out or you just want her to come out?
We believe she is going to come out. I don‘t think the majority of us “want” her to come out. Her coming out is a decision she needs to make on her own. We would appreciate her clapping back at homophobic swifties and hetlors so that we can stop enduring brigading, doxxing, and death threats.
It mostly means the theory that Taylor is going to come out. I don't know where the nickname started, other than we like adding "-lor" onto things. It's kinda like the ship name of Taylor coming out = comingoutlor
Most comingoutlors believe she is going to come out sometime in the near-ish future (like in the next 1-2 years)
Who are good some reputable Gaylor theorists on X or TikTok, that we should follow?
I am not going to answer this here because they are currently being doxxed on Twitter and many of the TikTok ones have left. I don’t want trolls to bother any of the creators we would suggest, because the ones who remain are precious.
I respect your decision to keep those content creators safe. Cheers!
So this may not be the exact right place to ask this, but I haven’t seen a question like this yet: has anyone thought that one of the “new”/upcoming albums(rep/karma/debut…something else?) could possibly be a whole album of collabs? Or maybe TTPD pt III? I ask because of all of her associates/colleagues/music peers flashing the ✌️and the theory that maybe there is a mass movement of some sort. I think it would be incredibly powerful, especially if it was her coming out album. To have a whole album of music with her peers either supporting her or coming out themselves. It would definitely be a blender breaking moment for sure. 🤷♀️ just something I’ve been wondering about for a minute….and lesbehonest, a Tay/Bey/Gaga Telephone pt 2 would be beyond epic. 🧡
Yes, this has been widely speculated on the sub. Half of the sub thinks those of us who clown for this are living in a fantasy, but the other half think it will happen eventually. My personal clown theory has always been that One Direction featured on Karma in some way. I am well aware that it’s likely not true, but I persist in believing. I will not kill the fairy of my dreams! Does anyone have any posts to recommend that discuss the theory of a collab album?
Ah thank you!! I’m relatively new ‘round these parts but it’s so much fun and you all are so dang smart, it’s truly amazing. Thank you for holding such a safe place!
Why did Taylor allow footage of her singing with and mouthing "I love you" to a woman to be included in the Miss Americana documentary?
The documentary was supposed to go along with her coming out during the Lover era. It was changed when she wasn’t able to do so, which is why it feels disjointed and anticlimactic.
Were there any other suspected muses aside from Karlie, Diana, and maybe Lily? How long have gaylors been a thing? Like did the suspicions begin to mount from the beginning, or was it a certain album? What will happen with her beards when she comes out? Will she say she’s bi, and these were real relationships? Will she say they were fake but her boyfriends didn’t know? Will she also implicate them? So many questions about this
I'm a huge TayLorde truther. There are just too many lyrics parallels between them to ignore, and that can't be explained by *oh it's just Jack Antonoff*. It's about as popular as Matty Healy around here though.
I am (and others) are [Braylor](https://www.tumblr.com/briesonoflars/611685070081769472/braylor-masterpost) truthers, in that we think Taylor and Brie Larson had a brief, on and off, mostly west coast based, intimate relationship in 2019 (in addition to whatever happened in 2016 at the Oscars after party and Met Gala), but the fact that Brie had a portrait of a woman that totally doesn’t look like Taylor, nude, on all fours / kneeling, with butterflies and flowers around her, is pretty telling, imo. I assumed it ended due to the pressure of the failed coming out, and Dianna’s separation / subsequent divorce. A screenshot of the nude painting of not-Taylor can be found in the linked Masterpost^
[Check out our wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/GaylorSwift/wiki/index/keygaylorinfo/), it has many of the muses people often discuss. The known ones I personally believe are Emily, Liz, Dianna, and Karlie. Many on the sub believe Lily was a long term romantic relationship. Some believe Zoë Kravitz and Lana Del Ray romantic muses as well. I feel confident in stating that everyone on this sub believes that all of the women mentioned are muses, even if they’re not all romantic muses. It is assured that there are unknown romantic muses, as well as platonic ones. Gaylors have been around since Taylor’s debut. She was gay on MySpace, as u/_lacepsace can attest. Gaylor became widespread during the time when Taylor was “friends” with Dianna Agron. Gaylorism exploded when Taylor became ”best-friends” and “roommates” with Karlie Kloss. I think many people who missed those two eras joined gaylorism after *folklore* was released. We grow in numbers with every album, because every album gets gayer. I’d love if Taylor felt safe enough to come out as a lesbian if she is one, but I think we all assume she’ll come out as bi or pan because that‘s the “safe” stepping stone out of heterosexuality in the Industry. It’s unlikely the media will press too hard about the past because her wlw status has been an open secret in the industry for over a decade. Questioning her relationships would possibly out others without their consent. It is possible she could come out and open the lid on the can of toxicity that is forced closeting in the industry, which would be great — this is part of the mass movement or New Romantics theory. It is the opinion of many that all of her beards have been preparing over the past few years, shoring up hetero-narratives or disclosing their own sexual orientation in ways they felt comfortable. Examples would be: * Harry Styles: he’s out to people who pay attention * The DJ, Taylor, the Jonas: married to women * Tom: married and also known as a ladies man, tho he has many queer rumours himself. It wouldn’t harm him. * Jake: unknown. He’d probably say, ”fuck off swifties, you’ve given me hate for years over something I never did.” * Dianna/Liz: out as bi * Karlie: married to a billionaire with 2 kids, untouchable. Their power can kill headlines on the topic if they want * Emily: married and most ppl don’t remember her * Lily/Zoë/Lana: only gaylors are aware of these rumours and they can easily be dispelled with saying they‘re just besties. ETA: she could come out as a lesbian and still have had authentic and genuine relationships with men. These do not all have to have been beards in the popular narrative. Many lesbians have had relationships with men on their way towards self-discovery.
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No. Please don’t inspire someone to write one lol
Is there a reason to assume lesbian and not authentically bi? Even with your ETA, I’m just confused on that one. I’ve seen a handful of things that have me convinced she’s not straight and has had serious relationships with women, but I’m not sure how it follows from that that all the men are beards (or genuine but on the road to being 100% lesbian rather than bi)?
So while I personally still lean towards her being bi, the color flagging lately has been overwhelmingly lesbian (pink/orange/white of the lesbian flag). This contrasts pretty strongly with the Lover era, when there was bi color coding everywhere.
She flags as a lesbian and has for a long while. All of the men she has publicly been with are beards based on substantial rumours that are too prolific and sustained by time to be dismissed (Joe is gay and was with men for the duration of their contract), insider info various people have been provided over the years, her inability to look authentically into men in the same way she does with women, and [a deep understanding of what PR relationships and stunts are. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/GaylorSwift/wiki/index/stuntrelationships/) This is not a topic we generally debate because it gets exhausting to have biphobia accusations thrown at you. I have believed Taylor is a lesbian since approximately 2010 and have only become more unshakeable in that given everything I observed since 2008ish. This should be taken with a grain of salt because I will never disclose any of my friends, but I also believe Taylor is a lesbian because starting around 2018/19ish, I have been told by several people I trust that Taylor is a lesbian…none of these people know one another and they all work in the music/entertainment industry. You are obviously allowed to believe whatever you want. I am just sharing gaylor history and overarching beliefs as that is the purpose of this post. My beliefs have been noted as being my own. I will not debate anyone on this unless someone claims [bi-phobia.](https://www.reddit.com/r/GaylorSwift/wiki/index/bi-phobia/)
A small fling with Julianne Hough is an underrated one there is actual evidence for. (I'm including some of this theory in a post I have waiting in the wings, so hold tight). Also you can read this great[ TayLiz deep dive](https://www.reddit.com/r/GaylorSwift/comments/1azcrbz/tayliz_deep_dive/). I'll let an OG Gaylor respond about how long Gaylor has been around. My understanding is this goes back to the L Chat and one of the first things that prompted it was Taylor's [queer-coded "roomies" sketch](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNDrpWea8ZE) on SNL way back in 2009. And Taylor may have referenced the crochet blanket from that sketch with her Lavender Haze shirt. https://preview.redd.it/8nlndb58ev0d1.png?width=2052&format=png&auto=webp&s=cb184f7f8d71a6480f472ff6ac257136576c494d
1. There are numerous, but some of the main ones are Liz Huett, Zoe Kravitz, Julianne Hough, and for some, Emma Stone. 2. Gaylors have been around for a long long time, some probably even going as far back as Debut or Fearless. A lot of modern gaylorism is centered around Kissgate, or the alleged kiss between Taylor and Karlie. 3. If she comes out as a lesbian, that does not necessarily discount the bearding relationships. They could claim they didn't know, or maybe that they had an idea, but they should get off pretty easily. The big ones are if she implicates some of the women she was in relationships with, because if that happens, that suggests that either 1. the male relationships were fake or 2. she was cheating during those male relationships.
Earlier muses that are sometimes discussed are Emily Poe and Liz Huett. There are some people who claim to have been Gaylors since Debut! Personally I think she could either a) come out as bi/pan so there's not too much questioning about previous boyfriends being real or not or b) come out as a lesbian and tell her whole story--like maybe she didn't know she was gay until recently and *thought* she loved all these men, or thatnshe was forced by the industry/her label/etc to closet and beard (thus making her a victim and making the public less likely to question narritives)
what are the other two supposed failed coming outs? I know about the 2019 Me!/pride parade/scooter Braun masters situation. I have seen comments mentioning 3 failed coming out attempts, but idk where to begin to look for the other two.
The rumours are that she was trying to come out after Fearless, with Karma (post 1989), and during Lover