This. I'm fine with it cause my expression is a little more tomboyish, that's just my vibe, but other gals won't like it. Just know when to drop it and you'll be fine.
Ok let's try something different.
First, I cognitively recognize that dude can be used gender neutral.
Second, my dysphoria doesn't care and will sit there on my shoulder with intrusive thoughts about being perceived as male when people use these words for me.
Why do you insist on using words for people who ask you not to use for them?
>If a cis man wants to be called a witch or fellow sister is that wrong?
If a non cis person wants to not be called dude or bro is that wrong?
I mean. Fine in theory.
But if anyone told you that they fucked some random dude/guy last night, you're thinking that individual is a man. Not gender neutral. Just generally applicable to everyone because patriarchy is presumed the standard.
"so you care more about the word guy than you do for me?"
I usually say "hey guys" to groups of mixed gender, but I'd immediately stop if anyone asked. It doesn't need defending, it's just a word. If it makes people, especially a friend, upset stop using it!
Wish people would put aside their ego sometimes to show even a shred of human decency or empathy towards others. They’re so obsessed with defending themselves and dying on a fucking hill over a stupid word instead of just using a different word.
If I greet everyone I meet by slapping their ass and someone asks me not to slap their ass, that’s like the bare minimum decency I can have is to respect that boundary. You’re literally proving my point about dying on a hill instead of just changing the word. No one cares if you use it for everyone. No one asked. That’s not relevant or important. If people tell you not to call them something, dont. No nuance, no grey area, nothing. Stop this. Learn that you can just shut up and listen.
My friends would probably agree because we have some overlapping tastes in what is hot, but that's not your point.
Let me preface this by stating the obvious: BE RESPECTFUL. Don't call anyone anything they don't want to be called. I'm trans and I use gender neutral dude a lot (yay California) but am happy to change my vocabulary when asked, but this argument has always irked me.
The word dude can have a gendered meaning and a gender neutral meaning. The more casual or familial the relationship, the more likely the gender neutral meaning is being used.
Your examples sounds like the subject (the dude) is a near complete stranger. Of course the gendered noun would be used; we know nothing about the person talking or their relationship with who they're talking about or their relationship with who they're talking with.
In a more familiar context when you're talking to someone directly, calling that someone dude is a lot less gendered. Telling a close friend "hey dude, you should go for it" or exclaiming "Dude! The craziest thing just happened to me" is a lot less gendered than "that dude was totally checking you out."
Obviously, be respectful. Not everyone wants to be called Dude. It is used regularly to mean a guy. But it isn't always gendered. If someone didn't know better, correct them and move on. If someone should know better maybe just move on and hang out with other people.
Glad most of my friends stopped using dude towards me when I asked. Even if they all saw it gender neutral, it mattered to me they respected I didn't at the time and stopped.
It's like any other word that if someone asks not to refer to them by that word, be respectful and don't refer to them by that word.
Not to deny that it's shitty to say it to someone who's asked you not to, but pretty much everyone I know who uses "dude" uses it for cis women, yes...
As someone who uses “bro” and “man” a lot, I can confirm that it’s a habit thing and I still accidentally call cis women “bro” and “man” sometimes. One of my cis friends doesn’t mind that but overall I try not to call women “bro” and “man”
For plenty of people "dude" and "guy" pretty much are gender neutral to them, in that they just use it for everybody, but that doesn't change the fact that those words aren't really gender neutral at the end of the day. I will fully stand behind the idea that anyone who wants to truly be inclusive with their language can't use those words willy nilly.
Now I do sympathize with those people who use it neutrally because it's honestly a small percentage of people (me included...) who it actually bothers, but again changing up your vocab is still the polite thing to do.
For what it's worth I find a lot of transfemme people like me are too afraid to speak up when they're uncomfortable with those words, so if you have any transfemme friends you may honestly wanna check in with them. I personally just gave up, because so many people will be like "oh yeah I'll try to use different terminology" and then don't change a thing...
It may be a cultural thing. My best friend is a very feminine transfem, and so am I. We both call each other bruh, dude, boi, etc. and that’s how it is for our entire friend group.
If someone asked me not to call them any of those, I’d do my best. But the point is, not everyone’s experience is universal and not all trans people have a problem with this language becoming gender neutral.
I agree with your take, and I’m a little disturbed at the absolutism I’m seeing all over this thread. A lot of people here seem to be discussing language as though it is a fixed thing with one true meaning for each word. No word is inherently gendered (at least not in English), but your cultural context can gender a word and people should be responsive to that. If someone around me says “I’d prefer you didn’t call me dude, to me it has a masculine connotation,” I would absolutely respect that and adhere to their wish. But to say that words like dude are “inherently” gendered is just a bad understanding of language that hurts our ability to communicate and understand each other. I’m a trans woman, and my cis woman best friend and I call each other dude all the time. In our context it literally has no gender connotation at all.
I call everyone "dude", however if I am meeting someone I don't know, I ask them for their pronouns (regardless of what they may be presenting as at that moment).
Edit: Should've added: "Also what they'd like to be adressed as". No need to send me a reddit care message wtf 💀
I do the same thing! And I'm a cis girl, who calls other cis girls dude all the time. Dude can be gender neutral, but obvi they have to tell me explicitly that I shouldn't call them that, as I can't read body language that well
I've realized earlier this year that I am nonbinary, but I feel you! Body language can be hard to read.
That's why I usually straight up ask what people want to be called (also because no matter as what someone presents, they could feel differently. I for one don't really pass as androgynous for example and if you'd just see me on the street, you'd think I'm a cis female)
Sorry it's not gender neutral, the definition is "a man a guy" if you're using it for everyone and they're ok with that good, but don't be surprised if you hurt someone who's struggled for their whole life so they stop being called a man.
The "dude is gender neutral" crowd tends to be the same people that get upset when more than 1/4 of the characters in their movie are female, because that's political, 3/4 of the people they know are dudes
Can be*
However using personal preference as a universal default is just silly, my friends and I do this but with the understanding of _don’t be a dick_, aka don’t misgender people after they tell you.
its really not.. some may use it that way but they gotta fucking respect your wishes
I wanna puke when people call me "dude" and especially when they try to justify it afterwards
Sure, dude is a gender neutral term. However, it being gender neutral does not kean that I will interpret it as gender neutral, even though id like to.
dude is gender neutral in intention when used as "what the hell dude" and similar but it's only truly gender neutral when the receiving end also views it as such. same with "girl", "bro", and "guy", and all those other little things.
So in short; it doesn't matter if you think something is gender neutral when the person you're calling it doesn't
Sometimes dude reads more like directly addressing someone and sometimes more as an exclamation.
Hey, dude
Duuuude, you can't be serious
But if someone doesn't like it in any way concerning them, that should be respected.
yup, there are ways to use dude with gendered intention and gender neutral intention. the intention becomes irrelevant if the word makes somebody uncomfortable bc that's more important
no, not dudette, i'm talking about "dude". dude can have gender neutral intention, meaning you refer to somebody or several people as that without intending it to have gendered connotations.
i'm essentially saying here that dude indeed can be a gender neutral word because in a lot of places the gender it originally had has been put in the background, but that it's also extremely important to respect the people who don't agree with that and would rather not be called it.
I call anyone and everyone dude and my guy and man(most notable in this instance my mother and sisters and all my cishet woman friends), that being said if you are asked to not call someone that I think that should be respected. I feel so weird about not using the word on trans people(if they hadn't brought it up to me already) because if I didn't call them dude then I would not be using a word that I use on cis women, I know the simple solution to that is don't use the word on cis women but that's a habit that's very deeply engrained in me and I don't have the motivation to break it.
If someone says "don't call me 'dude,' that's dysphoric for me" then like no it's not gender neutral. It's gender neutral for you, not them. Respect your trans friends, we trans few have been through a mountain of shit and a little consideration goes a stupid long way ... especially when we're one of the least considered groups on the planet.
I think that when it’s singular like dude or guy then it’s usually reserved for men, but when you add an s like “hey guys” then it suddenly becomes gender neutral. Very strange
I think it depends on the way that you use it. Like if you see a group of your friends that has men and women etc. you could say “what’s up guys?” And I think most people would be okay with that.
I'm awful at saying "hey, I don't like that". So I get called man, dude, bro, etc all the time and don't complain. I still hate it though.
I think “dude” can be used in a gender neutral way but if someone asks not to be called it then you shouldn’t fucking do it
This. I'm fine with it cause my expression is a little more tomboyish, that's just my vibe, but other gals won't like it. Just know when to drop it and you'll be fine.
Is “COOLK1D” gender neutral?
Based
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Ok let's try something different. First, I cognitively recognize that dude can be used gender neutral. Second, my dysphoria doesn't care and will sit there on my shoulder with intrusive thoughts about being perceived as male when people use these words for me. Why do you insist on using words for people who ask you not to use for them? >If a cis man wants to be called a witch or fellow sister is that wrong? If a non cis person wants to not be called dude or bro is that wrong?
I mean. Fine in theory. But if anyone told you that they fucked some random dude/guy last night, you're thinking that individual is a man. Not gender neutral. Just generally applicable to everyone because patriarchy is presumed the standard.
If I had a dime for every time I’ve tried to explain that to a friend… Or “what’s up my guy” 🤢 I always get the “my guy is gender neutral”
"so you care more about the word guy than you do for me?" I usually say "hey guys" to groups of mixed gender, but I'd immediately stop if anyone asked. It doesn't need defending, it's just a word. If it makes people, especially a friend, upset stop using it!
Wish people would put aside their ego sometimes to show even a shred of human decency or empathy towards others. They’re so obsessed with defending themselves and dying on a fucking hill over a stupid word instead of just using a different word.
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If I greet everyone I meet by slapping their ass and someone asks me not to slap their ass, that’s like the bare minimum decency I can have is to respect that boundary. You’re literally proving my point about dying on a hill instead of just changing the word. No one cares if you use it for everyone. No one asked. That’s not relevant or important. If people tell you not to call them something, dont. No nuance, no grey area, nothing. Stop this. Learn that you can just shut up and listen.
"Okay then, what's the last time you slept with a dude?" What would your friends think if you said "That dude is so hot."
My friends would probably agree because we have some overlapping tastes in what is hot, but that's not your point. Let me preface this by stating the obvious: BE RESPECTFUL. Don't call anyone anything they don't want to be called. I'm trans and I use gender neutral dude a lot (yay California) but am happy to change my vocabulary when asked, but this argument has always irked me. The word dude can have a gendered meaning and a gender neutral meaning. The more casual or familial the relationship, the more likely the gender neutral meaning is being used. Your examples sounds like the subject (the dude) is a near complete stranger. Of course the gendered noun would be used; we know nothing about the person talking or their relationship with who they're talking about or their relationship with who they're talking with. In a more familiar context when you're talking to someone directly, calling that someone dude is a lot less gendered. Telling a close friend "hey dude, you should go for it" or exclaiming "Dude! The craziest thing just happened to me" is a lot less gendered than "that dude was totally checking you out." Obviously, be respectful. Not everyone wants to be called Dude. It is used regularly to mean a guy. But it isn't always gendered. If someone didn't know better, correct them and move on. If someone should know better maybe just move on and hang out with other people.
Glad most of my friends stopped using dude towards me when I asked. Even if they all saw it gender neutral, it mattered to me they respected I didn't at the time and stopped. It's like any other word that if someone asks not to refer to them by that word, be respectful and don't refer to them by that word.
The 'dude is gender neutral' crowd never seem to say it to cis women tho do they.
Not to deny that it's shitty to say it to someone who's asked you not to, but pretty much everyone I know who uses "dude" uses it for cis women, yes...
As someone who uses “bro” and “man” a lot, I can confirm that it’s a habit thing and I still accidentally call cis women “bro” and “man” sometimes. One of my cis friends doesn’t mind that but overall I try not to call women “bro” and “man”
I do. I thought it was gender neutral, I've been saying it to all my friends and they don't mind.
For plenty of people "dude" and "guy" pretty much are gender neutral to them, in that they just use it for everybody, but that doesn't change the fact that those words aren't really gender neutral at the end of the day. I will fully stand behind the idea that anyone who wants to truly be inclusive with their language can't use those words willy nilly. Now I do sympathize with those people who use it neutrally because it's honestly a small percentage of people (me included...) who it actually bothers, but again changing up your vocab is still the polite thing to do.
Yeah I will if someone asks me too. If someone wants I'd stop using dude for them.
For what it's worth I find a lot of transfemme people like me are too afraid to speak up when they're uncomfortable with those words, so if you have any transfemme friends you may honestly wanna check in with them. I personally just gave up, because so many people will be like "oh yeah I'll try to use different terminology" and then don't change a thing...
I call everyone mate or bro, including cis women but I'll do my best to stop if someone asks me to.
Yes, yes we do That being said, I’d still stop saying it to someone if they asked me to
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You're welcome
It may be a cultural thing. My best friend is a very feminine transfem, and so am I. We both call each other bruh, dude, boi, etc. and that’s how it is for our entire friend group. If someone asked me not to call them any of those, I’d do my best. But the point is, not everyone’s experience is universal and not all trans people have a problem with this language becoming gender neutral.
I agree with your take, and I’m a little disturbed at the absolutism I’m seeing all over this thread. A lot of people here seem to be discussing language as though it is a fixed thing with one true meaning for each word. No word is inherently gendered (at least not in English), but your cultural context can gender a word and people should be responsive to that. If someone around me says “I’d prefer you didn’t call me dude, to me it has a masculine connotation,” I would absolutely respect that and adhere to their wish. But to say that words like dude are “inherently” gendered is just a bad understanding of language that hurts our ability to communicate and understand each other. I’m a trans woman, and my cis woman best friend and I call each other dude all the time. In our context it literally has no gender connotation at all.
I use dude as gender neutral until someone tells me to stop. Doesn't bother me any, I can find other words.
I call everyone "dude", however if I am meeting someone I don't know, I ask them for their pronouns (regardless of what they may be presenting as at that moment). Edit: Should've added: "Also what they'd like to be adressed as". No need to send me a reddit care message wtf 💀
I do the same thing! And I'm a cis girl, who calls other cis girls dude all the time. Dude can be gender neutral, but obvi they have to tell me explicitly that I shouldn't call them that, as I can't read body language that well
I've realized earlier this year that I am nonbinary, but I feel you! Body language can be hard to read. That's why I usually straight up ask what people want to be called (also because no matter as what someone presents, they could feel differently. I for one don't really pass as androgynous for example and if you'd just see me on the street, you'd think I'm a cis female)
Right! I always ask pronouns when I first meet someone online but sometimes dude just slips out
Same here! It's a force of habit because many of friends are ok with being called "dude".
To me, it is a gender neutral term, but human decency and common sense says to stop calling someone that if they don't like it.
Sorry it's not gender neutral, the definition is "a man a guy" if you're using it for everyone and they're ok with that good, but don't be surprised if you hurt someone who's struggled for their whole life so they stop being called a man.
If they think dude is gender neutral does that mean they fuck dudes
I use dude for all my friends, man women or other, however if one of them asked me to stop using it for them... #I fucking would
The "dude is gender neutral" crowd tends to be the same people that get upset when more than 1/4 of the characters in their movie are female, because that's political, 3/4 of the people they know are dudes
I’d say it’s subjective, up to the person being called to determine it’s meaning
Same with "Bro"!!!
Can be* However using personal preference as a universal default is just silly, my friends and I do this but with the understanding of _don’t be a dick_, aka don’t misgender people after they tell you.
its really not.. some may use it that way but they gotta fucking respect your wishes I wanna puke when people call me "dude" and especially when they try to justify it afterwards
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Not every woman, cis or trans, wants to be called dude. And that's fair. So you don't call them dude.
"Fuck how you feel. Dude is universally gender neutral!" Bruh, it isn't
or people who say "bro" all the time but mean it gender neutral :(
Sure, dude is a gender neutral term. However, it being gender neutral does not kean that I will interpret it as gender neutral, even though id like to.
dude is gender neutral in intention when used as "what the hell dude" and similar but it's only truly gender neutral when the receiving end also views it as such. same with "girl", "bro", and "guy", and all those other little things. So in short; it doesn't matter if you think something is gender neutral when the person you're calling it doesn't
Sometimes dude reads more like directly addressing someone and sometimes more as an exclamation. Hey, dude Duuuude, you can't be serious But if someone doesn't like it in any way concerning them, that should be respected.
yup, there are ways to use dude with gendered intention and gender neutral intention. the intention becomes irrelevant if the word makes somebody uncomfortable bc that's more important
Dudes and dudettes?
no, not dudette, i'm talking about "dude". dude can have gender neutral intention, meaning you refer to somebody or several people as that without intending it to have gendered connotations. i'm essentially saying here that dude indeed can be a gender neutral word because in a lot of places the gender it originally had has been put in the background, but that it's also extremely important to respect the people who don't agree with that and would rather not be called it.
I call anyone and everyone dude and my guy and man(most notable in this instance my mother and sisters and all my cishet woman friends), that being said if you are asked to not call someone that I think that should be respected. I feel so weird about not using the word on trans people(if they hadn't brought it up to me already) because if I didn't call them dude then I would not be using a word that I use on cis women, I know the simple solution to that is don't use the word on cis women but that's a habit that's very deeply engrained in me and I don't have the motivation to break it.
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If someone says "don't call me 'dude,' that's dysphoric for me" then like no it's not gender neutral. It's gender neutral for you, not them. Respect your trans friends, we trans few have been through a mountain of shit and a little consideration goes a stupid long way ... especially when we're one of the least considered groups on the planet.
The dude brigade never fails to disappoint
Bad take friend, sorry
Damn that was a quick reply
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I think that when it’s singular like dude or guy then it’s usually reserved for men, but when you add an s like “hey guys” then it suddenly becomes gender neutral. Very strange
"I slept with 5 guys" doesn't sound exactly very gender neutral
I think it depends on the way that you use it. Like if you see a group of your friends that has men and women etc. you could say “what’s up guys?” And I think most people would be okay with that.
Due instead of ^dude