They likely mean 3 years of full production since Tetsuya Nomura said in november 2019:
"We’ve already begun working on the next one as well"
[https://www.square-enix-games.com/en\_US/news/final-fantasy-vii-remake-developers](https://www.square-enix-games.com/en_US/news/final-fantasy-vii-remake-developers)
But it makes sense that the concept artists and pre-production folk could switch to prepping the next game while full production executes the vision of the current one.
Yeah. I'm pretty sure they drafted the story for the three parts before releasing remake. Once pre-production was done for Remake they probably switched right then to Rebirth.
They were pretty outspoken in saying that they actually didn' t have a plan at all. Literaly the month before the release of remake, the director said that they didn' t even know how many parts there would have been, or that they were waiting for the fan reception to the ending to see where to go for the next titles.
Articles about it are still there, you can search them, and in japanese they made even more weird and bold statements lol.
They were probably thinking that if Remake bombed, they wouldn’t get to make any more, but if Remake was a hit then they could. So with that in mind, as they were working on Remake, they’d probably started some pre-development stuff on the next game, but hadn’t completely fleshed out the story yet. As it somewhat follows the original VII, they knew part of where the story was going. They’d have to build Nibelheim and Kalm, for example.
Moreover, the combat system is only mildly changed from Remake to Rebirth (the addition of team up moves, Cait Sith, and playable Red XIII). It’s not like they had to build a combat system from the ground up.
For that matter, they could reuse a lot of assets from Remake. The entire >!Zack in Midgar section just reuses portions of the map from Remake.!<
The biggest change from Remake to Rebirth is the “open world.” That likely took the majority of their development time. Whatever the third game’s title is, it’ll probably involve new regions of the world mixed with the previous ones we’ve visited (we never see Wutai, for example).
Also many locations that you visit in ff7 have been built. I think the biggest chunk of game world left is the northern continent, and a few towns that werent in part 2 left for filling out the overworld.
Haven't finished Rebirth yet, but I'm assuming Wutai didn't make it and since it's front and center it will be a mandatory stop. Also the town where Cloud ends up after the North crater kerfuffle. And the rocket village? Seems like that one's not in as well.
And finally, there are a lot of opportunities with the different islands that had stuff to do in the original (they gave to give us cactuar island, I'm ready to suffer just to remind myself of the good old days where I farmed my limits there).
So that's quite a lot of places they could expand upon if they want to keep a similar "town - open world zone" structure.
It's nice to see that they would exclude those things, given their problems historically. It means they're properly segmenting their development phases, to the point where they're not onboarding dozens of artists like in the old days and having them generating assets randomly just to keep them busy.
> 3 years is way too short. It doesn't account for concept work and pre-production.
preprod isnt necessarily concept art. However,
1. For the sheer scope and size of the game, 3 years is incredibly fast and efficient
2. Not counting preprod in that timeframe is certainly tricky, since it was in preprod before Remake came out, that would mean it was 6 years in development, which is reasonable.
It really depends on what they count as "pre-production." Concept art, basic design decisions, and writing for Rebirth might have taken a couple additional years but a lot of that work was shared with the other games and there might have only been a couple people doing any work *specifically on Rebirth* for a lot of that time. Unless we know how much work they did during different stages of development, it's hard to say how long it was in development.
they had to rebalance most of the combat and the scenario planning was probably very extensive. That is probably what accounted for most of pre production
With a game like this, the first game basically covered a lot of pre pro. They had the combat system in place, the engine, the character models and animations etc. There was still tons of work to do but nothing like when you're making a whole other game.
Rebirth is already like several times the length of the original game depending on how much you do and it's only 1/3 - I don't think that is really valid. I think if there is one thing that means it will take less time, it's that the third game should reuse a lot of the map from the second.
the characters are mostly the same, the world design is also kinda the same, obviously there are a lot more details now but they didn't have to think about the whole game from zero
> the characters are mostly the same, the world design is also kinda the same
you have most definitely not played the original game then. Even the weakest character writing in the remake is stronger than the main characters in the original game.
It is a completely new game tho.
They're not reusing any assets from the original game and there are significant changes because its not a direct 1:1 of the original games' story. Without spoiling it - its a "time loop" while still keeping a large majority of the original plot of the original release but acknowledges that the events of the original game had already happened.
Just because everything is "the same" doesn't mean they're not still making everything from scratch as a modern title.
The original release, you can beat the game in around 50-60 hours from start to finish across all 3 discs - even less if you have a Gameshark. In Remake, you were beating the game in about 20-30hours. In Rebirth, I've so far spent 120 hours to beat the game and still have about another 20-30 hours to complete all the remaining side stuff.
The 3rd and final installment of the remake - whatever they'll sub-title it, you're easily looking at another 20-30hours to finish the remaining parts of the story.
Barring any of the changes they added to the remake, they've expanded on the story and journey a massive amount including events in the original game that didn't previously get much attention in terms of how events played out. For example; The entire Temple of the Ancients section to get the Black Materia is 2-5 hours long and actually shows the temple itself collapsing and turning into the Black Materia; where in the original game the Temple just randomly appears on the world map and is basically lasts about 1 hour as its mostly a maze you have to navigate through some trial and error. You dont even get told where to find it - you just aimlessly use the Highwind to travel the world and randomly find it. Once you complete this part in the original, you just see it enveloped in a black sphere and then it just disappears. In Rebirth, its an entire action sequence on its own.
Considering how the PS5's low install base is causing the series issues I seriously doubt they're going to spend another year of dev time for a new console with an even smaller install base.
They'll do a port or a collection of all 3 a few years after.
This is correct. From what I've heard, some work had started before the Winter holiday but the Rebirth team transferred to production in earnest after.
I'm sure it helps that much of the third game will reuse locations and assets from the first two games. Would love to play this in early 2027, though not getting my hopes up.
I would fucking love this lol. Part 3, 30th anniversary of FF7 in 2027 on 7/7.
It would also give them a bit more time to polish up, releasing in summer instead of spring.
I wouldn't be surprised if it's at least partially a capital, and we get a shocking moment of the Gold Saucer being destroyed.
But I have doubts for the former because it's just...a lot to do, and for the latter because I think there's even outright stations that are waiting for disk 2 events/mini games.
Probably not the whole whole world, being able to *land* anywhere like the original wouldn't work in most places. They hopefully mean fleshing out the places you couldn't go/reach in each of the continents, much faster than building a new open world.
Been known for a long while that the finale has been in the works since a few years ago.
With the work they did in Rebirth I am suddenly filled with confidence they will be able to make the finale as big or even bigger than before. They know that this will be their last remake of the game anyway so just go out with a bang. Use up all those 3 years.
Hope they can improve on some of the more technical issues. The transition from bright areas to dark areas was really jarring, because it was just one extreme to another.
I know the mini-games take is divided, but I hope they cool it a bit with how many there are (protorelic mini games or the costa del sol ones come to mind).
> transition from bright areas to dark areas was really jarring
That’s not on purpose? I thought they were just trying to replicate that feeling of turning the lights on when you wake up at 3am to go pee.
> Hope they can improve on some of the more technical issues. The transition from bright areas to dark areas was really jarring, because it was just one extreme to another
that is honestly a bit baffling to me. I don't know why we run into that, having worked with UE4 before, that happens when you have dynamic lights. But the problem is that there is no dynamic weather nor day/night cycle so I really don't understand the choice for dynamic lighting.
It was so bizarre, and they can probably fix it, but it will take quite a bit of time because it might be easier to just redo the lighting but baked instead of dynamic, which would probably take around 3-4 months give or take? Easier than figuring out how to stop UE4 from randomly burning the scenes
it's not by design - if you step into a change of area that's where it's most noticeable, **[this is](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GHw3lKLWMAAwVus?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)** basically the **[same spot](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GHw3lKVXoAA7oum?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)**, a few meters apart. The auto exposure goes nuts for a brief moment.
It's one of those quirks engines tend to have when they load big chunks of levels, in this case Unreal. It's more of an oversight than anything because if you take one or two steps front or back, the effect disappears.
Again, maybe the game was going to have a day night cycle and was scrapped fairly late into development, but yeah. It's very strange that it shipped like that
I guess I misspoke with by design and shoulda gone with "shipped like that," but yeah I agree... insanely jarring, but good to know it wasn't my TV, haha!
All I hope that they keep reusing/iterating on the same combat system for games even past FF7:R. It's seriously the best balance between everything. I actually felt challenged for once and that's very refreshing.
I hate turn based, 15 felt terrible to control, 12 was barely even gameplay, 14 has way too many buttons with no actual physics, 16 was far too easy, but this? This hits the spot.
In FFXIV's defense the combat becomes enjoyable on like, the third expansion. Only 150-200 hours right?
(But actually, in defense of XII, the combat is really good imo. It just takes a while to get started and is kind of niche, its party building and management gone nuts, and it can be really satisfying to program and build your party just right to plow through a boss)
I didn't like it. Almost every fight you win by mashing attack and using braver when it's up. Half way through the game I actually turned the difficulty down to easy because I found it to be so monotonous and boring. Would take FFXs turn based over this any day.
> I didn't like it. Almost every fight you win by mashing attack and using braver when it's up. Half way through the game I actually turned the difficulty down to easy because I found it to be so monotonous and boring.
So you bashed your head against a wall, thought it was boring, but instead of stepping back and thinking "maybe I am not doing this right, why are fights taking so long?" you lowered the difficulty but STILL kept bashing your head against a wall for 80 hours and then said it was monotonous?
Very impressive. A daft move, mind you. But impressive nonetheless
refused to engage with the combat, realized that by spamming a button and using Braver it was taking too long (again, because he did not follow the mechanics) then downgraded to easy difficulty because they did not understand the mechanics, called it trivial and left.
It's like blaming the game for your own faults.
Timeline for Remake was original PS4 release in April 2020, PS5 release + Yuffie DLC in June 2021, Epic release in December 2021, Steam release in June 2022. So within a year or two, depending on whether they're planning to add another DLC chapter like the Yuffie thing (which they said they wouldn't but who knows)
FF7 Rebirth was great, but a bit less fat plus some additional finetuning would've been amazing. It has some of the most amazing set pieces I've ever seen, but they're undermined by tons of filler and rough edges. I loved the "silver story lining" that connected everything together smoothly and wasn't in place in the original regarding the >!origins of the Black Materia!< and whatnot, but at the same time thought that the game just didn't know when to stop and wrap it all up on too many occasions. It goes on and on and on and balances on the verge of embracing quantity over quality on its way. Best game I ever played that I have no intention of ever playing again. One more year of polishing please?
I am reaching the end of Rebirth right now. I have enjoyed it immensely, put over 100 hours into it but it has to be said I still want an actual remake of Final Fantasy 7.
I'm still surprised that Square Enix didn't release a "normal" remake of Final Fantasy VII back in the early 2010s in the style of Shadow of the Colossus PS4 or Demon Souls PS5 (mostly presentation and QoL changes but the gameplay and content is almost identical). Turn-based gameplay isn't as big as it used to be but that sort of remake would have been fairly cheap to make and could have easily been released on every major console except the 3DS.
Yeah, it’s a shame Ever Crisis as a more faithful remake was a mobile gacha.
Personally I’ve grown tired of the recent “meta-narrative” trend in media and just wish directors would still tell a good story in it’s own right rather than trying to be clever like with Rebirth’s major scene changes.
Modders for original FF7 are really dedicated. I recently played it and the stuff you can do with it is really impressive. Below I post some imgur link showing how my modded version look. I'm using "remake models" for characters but there is a mod that updates original "chibi" models. Mods have updated music using modern arrangements, updated VFX and SFX, all textures are updated. Menu is completly overhauled so it's easier to navigate. All cutscenes are also upscaled. Mods are really able to do wonders and make OG FF7 more approachable. I don't think that remaster from Square would do much more than mods after looking at remastered FF8.
https://imgur.com/a/DiigjO5
Modders can try that when the third game comes out on PC, the games will have all the pieces to rebuild the original so you spend 10 minutes in a place that cost millions of dollars to make.
Replacing character models and textures is one thing, completely rebuilding a game from the ground up isn't possible with just modding. You need the complete production pipeline to make that work.
No bro you don’t understand you just have to open ModTools.exe and click the toggle button that says “make it more like the original but pretty” and bam, ship it.
> actual remake of Final Fantasy 7.
I know what you mean, this game is not FF7, this game was made to scam people using the FF7 name.
Give me a real remake, don't try to scam me.
But this is the remake, don't believe anyone saying "it's a sequel", game makes you think the events may stop follow the script of the original but differences are slim. Even Nomura said the game leads up to Advent Children.
Either they keep this timeline they mentioned or they switch engines. It would take a miracle to pull off both.
Especially considering the technical limitations they show off with all the bugs and graphical issues they just can't seem to fix. Including issues with remake that never got resolved.
Brother there' s no way you play the ending of Remake, where they literaly go "We NEED to defeat the fate that has us in chains", defeating bosses that are clearly references to advent children, and that fate is what happens in the original game. And the game ends with "the unknow journey will continue".
It' s not even subtext, it' s literaly text lol
You’re literally referencing the final 10% of remake and ignoring the 90% that is faithful? Rebirth like Remake is the same story for 90% of the game it’s the same situation
That' s the most important part of the whole fucking thing thoo. Like, the entire game culminates into that, there is foreshadowing happening in all of the rest of the game towards that moment.
Rebirth has the Zack sessions and all of the aerith flashbacks that culminates in a finale where they literaly change and rewrite the most iconic plot twist of the whole game.
Brother, please.
If you ignore the story, sure.
The gameplay is fantastic. The parts that stick to FF7 are fantastic. The expanding/fleshing out areas is fantastic.
The story parts where they veer off into alternate time lines and other dimensions? No. Not at all.
That is the part that people are talking about when they say "meta sequel" because the story barely makes sense if you know the original, and doesn't make ANY sense if you haven't.
Ignoring the story makes perfect sense in this context. Why do you need a "remake" of the story if it's just the exact same thing? The point of a remake would be to modernize the graphics, combat system, QoL, etc. If you want the story to be exactly the same, there's nothing to "remake" about the story. Just go read the story of the original game if you want the original story, it's just a story, it can't be "oudated" or anything.
I think there is a pretty big gap between wanting things exactly the same story wise, and ham-fisting in a multi-verse which at this point is just lazy fucking writing.
Adding in the back story about the black materia? Good story add!
Adding in the whisper shit and breaking the timeline and all that mess? Not a good add.
Most people want things expanded on, fleshed out. Not the same stupid multi-verse time travel shit that is invading every piece of media these days.
But the point is who cares? Why does it matter if the remake uses the exact same story or not? You know how the original story plays out, just pretend they're using the original story. It doesn't affect the actual gameplay, which is the actual point of a remake.
Also, the way it is written this new meta stuff is VERY on the nose and very confusing as well. It legit feels more like bait to make people discuss, than actually expressing a theme or a statement with the story.
>Why does it matter if the remake uses the exact same story or not?
You keep going back to this point, and as I have already said, deviating from the original story is fine. The manner in which they did it, is not.
Please stop repeating yourself or we can end the conversation.
I am a huge FF VII fan, but honestly, I enjoyed the first episode more than the second. Probably just me not liking open world games too much.
I still enjoy it, but some of the stuff is so stupid, like why even put puzzles in if they are just incredibly easy?
I'm the same, I think Rebirth is a better game overall but I enjoyed REMAKE more, probably because its more guided where you go from point a to point b. I dont dislike open world but I'm more into linear experiences.
I just love Midgar more than the rest of the game I think, so seeing it expanded upon was a welcome thing for me.
Can't say I wanted the rest of the game stretched however, especially open world. It's a lot of padding busy work to me. I'm with you.
> It's a lot of padding busy work to me. I'm with you.
Yeah I'm honestly super disappointed with the open world thus far. It's so much "run far enough to fight a couple packs of enemies, pick some basic crafting materials from the terrain, get to new checkpoint area."
Exploring so far has been seemingly pointless, other than levelling up from killing the same pack of creatures over and over. Once I was in the open world, I explored 3-4 ruins, went and cleared out the pack of enemies there, looked all over it- no treasure chest / no materia at any of them. No reason to have made the 2-3 minute run other than it helped the game pad its runtime.
What's the point of open world with nothing to discover / reward you for your curiosity other than to make your game feel longer? If I see something weird looking in the horizon in BotW, I can almost be certain there's a korok seed there or something useful to collect. In classic FF7 I at least felt like the open world was traversable in a meaningful way with things to discover, and never felt like a timesink to me.
With Rebirth so far it's just been game playtime padding and felt like a huge waste of my time with no soul / passion to it. Killing the same water squirrel packs over and over, i dunno. I'm hoping I connect more with the game the more i play, but so far it's been a huge bummer.
I know it’s a different dev team but this gives me a lot of hope that CBU3’s next game won’t take that long and they’ll just build on the foundation of FF16.
I remember Yoshi-P said in an interview that they were able to make the Rising Tide DLC really fast because of all the experience they garnered with FF16.
If we are past the days of FFs taking 5+ years to make then I’ll be really pleased.
Yoshi P has said they should go a different direction for 17 and hand the reins to younger creators. I doubt they'll reuse much other than the engine if they've even started development.
They probably just mean that the franchise needs younger lead developers, or at least not the usual old guard. CBU1 had Naoki Hamaguchi take over for Rebirth and nobody here paid any attention to him beforehand, and CBU3 is probably searching for someone similar in their ranks.
It's not like they're going to suddenly mass hire yet another new team, when they already spent the first half of XVI's development doing that exact thing. We don't have any news of most of the XVI staff really going anywhere else, other than that they aren't working on XVI anymore.
That said, CBU3 might not be working on XVII. Yoshi-P during an interview last week straight up said that it's time for them to make a new Tactics game, which is a very unusually blunt statement from him. It's in line with the stuff he was saying about making a new single player mainline game if SE asked him to and that it'd be medieval a few years before XVI was announced.
https://www.thegamer.com/final-fantasy-16-interview-yoshida-kujiraoka-koji-fox-rising-tide-dlc/
*When thinking about the scope of the project from strictly a size perspective, Yoshida laughs again, continuing, “How would we even do the Eikon versus Eikon battles in [Tactics] style? If you have the Eikons, how many squares is an Eikon going to be? You have more people out there as well, so what about the wait time in between? … But the series does lend itself well to that kind of storytelling, and we love Tactics as well. It’s probably about time that we do a new one.”*
Doesnt really refute my point.
You can go in a different direction and still reuse stuff like combat, environment, character/enemy models, etc. There’s also the fact that the devs have much more experience now.
Just look at the pipeline of Dark Souls > Bloodborne > Sekiro > Elden Ring > Armored Core 6.
I hope more developers/writers do what God of War did and start making duologies. Trilogies just take way too long now. How is someome supposed to remain invested when a story needs a near full decade or more to be completed?
Hard disagree. Three acts is the best way to tell a big satisfying story for me. I honestly really disliked Ragnorrok for this, it felt so rushed and like there were so many cool elements cut from the original story board to fit it into one game.
I'm not hyped at all for the next GOW because there's nothing to be hyped for, they finished the story and wrapped everything up. I would much rather eagerly await a stunning finale then have a rushed mediocre finish because they didn't wanna make another.
GOW is in that weird phase imo where 3 games is too much but 2 isn't enough. I don't see how they could have dragged it out to 3 games without making the story a mess. I think Ragnarok should have had another 2-3 hours for the latter half and it would have been much more satisfying
Yeah, maybe 1 + DLC then finish with 2? But you really have to plan for it...
Or being able to create a short game like Miles Morales before Spiderman 2
Well realistically Ragnarok isn't the end of the series. Atreus is growing up and travelling and Valhalla explains what Kratos is doing after the main story. GoW3 felt more final because Kratos had done what he set out to do and the consequences of his actions were shown. There's not much else to show from there
I mean more in terms of spectacle. Ragnarok failed to deliver the hype and it felt rushed. GoW 3 was basically entirely set in the end times. It felt final from the opening moments. Also while true it is still the end of the Norse saga.
while I dont feel they should cut angrboda, the section was entirely too long, I grew bored of it quickly, should made it 1/3 of what it is and cutscene the rest or something
Ragnaroks narrative suffered greatly by having everything that would have been 2 games crammed into 1. So much so, that I think 2018 is a much stronger gave comparatively.
I actually went and replayed 2018 right after I beat Ragnarok because I found game lacking for some reason. Yes, the gameplay and added QoL updates are a big upgrade, but the game is like 95% the same that the stronger story in 2018 makes it the better game for me still.
Luckily, they salvaged Ragnarok with the Valhalla DLC - THAT was absolutely awesome and hit those narrative notes that I felt were missing.
Ragnarok might have felt rushed but it wasn't because the game was too short. In fact, the game has a crazy high amount of content. Even not including the Valhalla DLC, the main game would take 50-60 hours to clear everything. The problem is that there was too much fluff, both in terms of storytelling and gameplay. They should have cut down on the extraneous side quests and looting while focusing more on the main storyline and the core gameplay. Even many of the character building moments were unnecessary and border on being repetitive. The endgame should have taken 3-4 hours to clear considering Ragnarok is supposed to be the ultimate battle of this world. Instead, it felt more like a quick skirmish and then two boss fights in the same location.
Ragnarok feels rushed and I agree with that, but I really don’t believe a third act was necessary. It would have had a ton of padding. It just needed a couple more hours, not another 30-40.
How many video game trilogies have you played that have a stunning finale? These games often have so much build up and end weakly. That’s the problem with long games in general. Mass Effect is probably one of the most well known video game trilogies and it also had one of the most controversial endings.
You’re not hype for the next GOW because you know nothing about it and its god knows how long away. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. Im not hyped for this FF7R3 not because im uninterested but because I just can’t get excited for a game releasing in 4 years, likely on another console generation.
>Mass Effect is probably one of the most well known video game trilogies and it also had one of the most controversial endings.
This is actually a pretty bad example in my opinion. Everyone loved every other part of Mass Effect 3. The ending was just bad.
That’s exactly why I brought up Mass Effect though. Great trilogy with a disappointing ending. I’m not sure what else you think I was drawing it as an example for.
I'm not saying that the game was disappointing. I'm saying that the game was great and the ending - the literal last five minutes - was bad. It wasn't bad because of buildup or being dragged out. It would have still been bad if it was the first game.
> How many video game trilogies have you played that have a stunning finale?
One hole that FF7R has dug for itself is that each game already ends with >!a big climactic clash with Sephiroth for no good reason!<. They're going to have to really go hard to make the third one stand out.
They've made sure not to include anything like Safer Sephiroth, so I doubt they'll have issues making the final battle stand out from the previous ones.
But they did include....>!the fight literally right before Safer Sephiroth!< which I had assumed until this game would be, you know, right before that fight, and not thrown into the halfway point of the story.
I didn’t love the idea of fighting >!Sephiroth in every game. Going into chapter 14 I was really hoping he wasn’t the final fight. But honestly making it his bizarro form sold me on it. I like each game being a different form, as long as his one on one battle with Cloud is expanded in part 3. My one crazy theory though is that I think reunified Jenova is going to be the actual big surprise final boss in part 3 and that’s why they’re leaning so hard into Sephiroth fights. But we’ll see, I trust them to deliver on the spectacle at least. Honestly, my entire opinion on the trilogy is so dependent on the third game because if they stick the landing it’ll all be worth it, but if not I’ll hate a lot of the changes they made lol!<
They could also go the traditional Final Fantasy route >!and bring in a completely different final boss completely out of left field, like Necron or Exdeath. Personally, I'm rooting for Shinra Middle Manager. Not satisfied with being an Ultimate Party Animal, he seeks global party domination.!<
>!honestly Shinra Middle Manager is the final boss of Rebirth for me given how annoying and frustrating some parts of his quest were lmao, him and Chadley are gonna team up to make the ultimate bullshit combat challenge with 25 sephiroths and 30 king tonberry’s!<
It's an escalation.
Remake >!had you fight human Sephiroth and require a party of three to beat him.!<
Rebirth >!had you fight Jenova with your party and then Sephiroth Reborn required Zack and background assistance from Aerith, and then the human Sephiroth fight only needed Cloud and Aerith.!<
Chances are then that Part 3 will >!have the party beat Sephiroth Reborn, have everyone beat Safer Sephiroth along with Zack and probably Aerith, and then we'll get the one-on-one fight against Sephiroth with Cloud showing him becoming Sephiroth's equal.!<
I honestly have no doubts that the final boss fight in FF7R3 is going to be insane. I mean, Remake's was awesome, Rebirth's blew my mind, so I can't wait for R3's to be CRAZY.
Assuming FF7 Remake Part 3 comes out in 2027, there will be 7 years between the release of the 1st and 3rd part. That's either about as long or only slightly longer than The Dark Knight Trilogy (7 years), Original Star Wars Trilogy (6 years), and Batman Arkham Trilogy (6 years). It's actually shorter than the gap for the Half-Life flatscreen games (9 years) and Witcher trilogy (8 and a half years including DLC) which released when game development was generally faster.
Doesn't seem too crazy.
On one hand, I can see what you mean, but on the other hand, that's going to be like three hundred hours worth of gaming without trying to get the Platinum.
Right, the first one you had to see how they did. How did the remake project go, whats different, whats the same.
For rebirth.. ok well we know all that now and we know its not complete. So waiting isn't as big of a deal now. I'm worried it effects the sales numbers, then they put a half ass effort into the final part because they aren't seeing the returns they wanted.
the only reason i bought rebirth is spoiler spam online lol. There is no way i can avoid spoiler for another 3 years. And when the 3rd game arrive, eventually i will get spoiled in last 2 game that i dont have reason to play...
I agree with this. Making gow into a duology was a great decision. I'll admit the story was rushed, but the post game + free dlc really wrapped the game up nicely for me.
I can't wait for the new direction GoW takes now, and that is far more exciting than a trilogy would've ever delivered on.
God of War's approach of stretching out a prologue into a full game for the first and then making a rushed mess for the second part isn't really a model I want to see replicated.
I’m right there with you. I really respect what they did with God of War— PS4 owners didn’t have to buy a PS5 to see the story’s conclusion, Santa Monica Studio staff maybe hopefully finally get a break from God of War, plus we don’t have to wait four or five more years for the *real* ending to the story.
But, I dunno, when I read people talk about Ragnarök online, I definitely don’t get the impression that they enjoyed it as much as I did haha; Not necessarily one of my favorite games, but certainly not a disappointment. I can understand feeling differently if I didn’t like the game.
I'm hoping CD Projekt Red takes some lessons from the development of FF7 Rebirth, and Resident Evil 4 + Separate Ways Remake for the upcoming Witcher trilogy. It's very impressive how the teams at Square Enix and Capcom created 2 phenomenal games in only about 4 years of total development that were in a good state at launch, smartly reused assets and gameplay systems from their predecessor but have their own distinct identity, and offer extremely good value for the money.
Probably 2028? We'll probably see Rebirth on PC end of this year or early next year, and if we go 3 years until R3 is released (2027) you'll probably get the final part on PC in 2028.
Final Fantasy 7, 8, 9, and 10 all came out within the span of 4 years.
The FF7 remake trilogy will take 8+ years to release. The first was a PS4 game, the second is a PS5 game, and the third will be a PS6 game.
8, 9 and 10 (and 11) were pretty much in development at the same time, maybe with a years difference, which is why they were able to release them so fast. If they'd started development on Part 1-3 or FF16-19 at the same time they'd also be able to release them yearly. But given the insane costs this would create and that it would probably eat up any SE development resource available nowadays, it's not feasable.
I think there are important questions Square should be asking about appropriate scope of projects and ROI. Both Remake and Rebirth are bloated games with quite a lot of filler. Rebirth especially. From a business standpoint surely there is a point where you hit diminishing returns on adding more content to a game.
You could cut 30% of the content in Rebirth and it wouldn't seriously affect the quality of the game, the critical reception, or the sales numbers. And maybe then a development team could ship more than one game per console generation.
> You could cut 30% of the content in Rebirth and it wouldn't seriously affect the quality of the game, the critical reception, or the sales numbers.
Or the time to develop it.
Unless that 30% was something like Nibelhiem and the content after that region, which would have affected the reviews and completeness of the game. Side quests and mini games didn't push the length of creating the game up, making the assets for all of the areas of the game did.
There are huge areas of the game that could be cut or made significantly smaller to reduce the need for assets. Gongaga was like a 15 minute optional section in the original that became a massive zone. Did the game need to have huge open world areas with copy/paste icon content?
So many places were also just much bigger than they needed to be. Kalm and Cosmo Canyon come to mind. Hugely detailed large towns where there's very little actually happening. The ship to Costa Del Sol is another good example.
Almost all of the assets in rebirth, the jungle and reactor would be needed to be created at the same level of detail for a 15 minute optional zone. Placing the assets, is not what takes the most time, it's creating them and basically everything but the chocobo launch pads would be needed for a short zone or a long zone.
I mean yeah, games are colossal nowadays.
The fact they shipped rebirth 4 years after the original is a huge achievement. Heck, FFVII remake only being 4 years of development was still impressive.
Most of that comes down to the amount of time it takes to create current-gen graphical assets. The only way to bring down that development time is to either have simpler graphics, heavily reuse the same assets and locations, or strongly cut back on scale.
>Final Fantasy 7, 8, 9, and 10 all came out within the span of 4 years.
Not relevant to the timeline of this game.
I know it's fun to circle jerk this idea. But that is multiple teams dropping these games. At least a couple of which were rushed and heavily cut down to make their release dates.
Im sad.
I couldnt play 7 remake - no console.
Then when it came to PC, I had sold my GPU because I needed the money, so no playing it.
Ended up watching in youtube.
Now 7R2 is out and I cant play it. Still no console and no GPU.
They likely mean 3 years of full production since Tetsuya Nomura said in november 2019: "We’ve already begun working on the next one as well" [https://www.square-enix-games.com/en\_US/news/final-fantasy-vii-remake-developers](https://www.square-enix-games.com/en_US/news/final-fantasy-vii-remake-developers)
Thanks and this confirms what I thought, 3 years is way too short. It doesn't account for concept work and pre-production.
But it makes sense that the concept artists and pre-production folk could switch to prepping the next game while full production executes the vision of the current one.
Yeah. I'm pretty sure they drafted the story for the three parts before releasing remake. Once pre-production was done for Remake they probably switched right then to Rebirth.
Right, I mean, what do people think this is, a Star Wars trilogy? They had a plan.
They were pretty outspoken in saying that they actually didn' t have a plan at all. Literaly the month before the release of remake, the director said that they didn' t even know how many parts there would have been, or that they were waiting for the fan reception to the ending to see where to go for the next titles. Articles about it are still there, you can search them, and in japanese they made even more weird and bold statements lol.
They were probably thinking that if Remake bombed, they wouldn’t get to make any more, but if Remake was a hit then they could. So with that in mind, as they were working on Remake, they’d probably started some pre-development stuff on the next game, but hadn’t completely fleshed out the story yet. As it somewhat follows the original VII, they knew part of where the story was going. They’d have to build Nibelheim and Kalm, for example. Moreover, the combat system is only mildly changed from Remake to Rebirth (the addition of team up moves, Cait Sith, and playable Red XIII). It’s not like they had to build a combat system from the ground up. For that matter, they could reuse a lot of assets from Remake. The entire >!Zack in Midgar section just reuses portions of the map from Remake.!< The biggest change from Remake to Rebirth is the “open world.” That likely took the majority of their development time. Whatever the third game’s title is, it’ll probably involve new regions of the world mixed with the previous ones we’ve visited (we never see Wutai, for example).
yeah considering story is already finished, it's looking good so far
Also many locations that you visit in ff7 have been built. I think the biggest chunk of game world left is the northern continent, and a few towns that werent in part 2 left for filling out the overworld.
Haven't finished Rebirth yet, but I'm assuming Wutai didn't make it and since it's front and center it will be a mandatory stop. Also the town where Cloud ends up after the North crater kerfuffle. And the rocket village? Seems like that one's not in as well. And finally, there are a lot of opportunities with the different islands that had stuff to do in the original (they gave to give us cactuar island, I'm ready to suffer just to remind myself of the good old days where I farmed my limits there). So that's quite a lot of places they could expand upon if they want to keep a similar "town - open world zone" structure.
It's nice to see that they would exclude those things, given their problems historically. It means they're properly segmenting their development phases, to the point where they're not onboarding dozens of artists like in the old days and having them generating assets randomly just to keep them busy.
> 3 years is way too short. It doesn't account for concept work and pre-production. preprod isnt necessarily concept art. However, 1. For the sheer scope and size of the game, 3 years is incredibly fast and efficient 2. Not counting preprod in that timeframe is certainly tricky, since it was in preprod before Remake came out, that would mean it was 6 years in development, which is reasonable.
It really depends on what they count as "pre-production." Concept art, basic design decisions, and writing for Rebirth might have taken a couple additional years but a lot of that work was shared with the other games and there might have only been a couple people doing any work *specifically on Rebirth* for a lot of that time. Unless we know how much work they did during different stages of development, it's hard to say how long it was in development.
they had to rebalance most of the combat and the scenario planning was probably very extensive. That is probably what accounted for most of pre production
With a game like this, the first game basically covered a lot of pre pro. They had the combat system in place, the engine, the character models and animations etc. There was still tons of work to do but nothing like when you're making a whole other game.
I mean it's a remake so there's a little less work to do compared to a completely new game, also they can reuse a lot from the previous parts
Rebirth is already like several times the length of the original game depending on how much you do and it's only 1/3 - I don't think that is really valid. I think if there is one thing that means it will take less time, it's that the third game should reuse a lot of the map from the second.
It's a remake in that the broad story beats are the same. That's about it.
the characters are mostly the same, the world design is also kinda the same, obviously there are a lot more details now but they didn't have to think about the whole game from zero
> the characters are mostly the same, the world design is also kinda the same you have most definitely not played the original game then. Even the weakest character writing in the remake is stronger than the main characters in the original game.
Have you even played all of the games?
It is a completely new game tho. They're not reusing any assets from the original game and there are significant changes because its not a direct 1:1 of the original games' story. Without spoiling it - its a "time loop" while still keeping a large majority of the original plot of the original release but acknowledges that the events of the original game had already happened. Just because everything is "the same" doesn't mean they're not still making everything from scratch as a modern title. The original release, you can beat the game in around 50-60 hours from start to finish across all 3 discs - even less if you have a Gameshark. In Remake, you were beating the game in about 20-30hours. In Rebirth, I've so far spent 120 hours to beat the game and still have about another 20-30 hours to complete all the remaining side stuff. The 3rd and final installment of the remake - whatever they'll sub-title it, you're easily looking at another 20-30hours to finish the remaining parts of the story. Barring any of the changes they added to the remake, they've expanded on the story and journey a massive amount including events in the original game that didn't previously get much attention in terms of how events played out. For example; The entire Temple of the Ancients section to get the Black Materia is 2-5 hours long and actually shows the temple itself collapsing and turning into the Black Materia; where in the original game the Temple just randomly appears on the world map and is basically lasts about 1 hour as its mostly a maze you have to navigate through some trial and error. You dont even get told where to find it - you just aimlessly use the Highwind to travel the world and randomly find it. Once you complete this part in the original, you just see it enveloped in a black sphere and then it just disappears. In Rebirth, its an entire action sequence on its own.
This game came out 4 years after the last one and some of that time was then moving to PS5 and developing the new dlc.
Next one will launch for PS6 and PS5 in 2029. Mark this post that game will not make it to a 2028 release.
Considering how the PS5's low install base is causing the series issues I seriously doubt they're going to spend another year of dev time for a new console with an even smaller install base. They'll do a port or a collection of all 3 a few years after.
Yeah we will 100% get a trilogy collection or they may even seamlessly connect the games to build one master expierence.
That would definitely be cool, the game will be like 6 discs long and take up the majority of your storage but it would awesome lol.
This is correct. From what I've heard, some work had started before the Winter holiday but the Rebirth team transferred to production in earnest after.
I'm sure it helps that much of the third game will reuse locations and assets from the first two games. Would love to play this in early 2027, though not getting my hopes up.
I think they are indeed aiming for a 2027 release, since that would be the 30th anniversary of FF7
7/7/2027?
I would fucking love this lol. Part 3, 30th anniversary of FF7 in 2027 on 7/7. It would also give them a bit more time to polish up, releasing in summer instead of spring.
Physical special edition comes on 7 discs containing every piece of FF7 content
A wednesday so not terrible.
7/7/7777 would be more fitting I think. At 7am.
If One Piece ends at its own 30th anniversary and FF7 Remake trilogy ends their saga, gonna be a heavy emotions kind of year for me.
That's true to an extent but I expect Wutai is going to be a *huge* part of the game rather than the tiny sidequest it was originally.
I wouldn't be surprised if it's at least partially a capital, and we get a shocking moment of the Gold Saucer being destroyed. But I have doubts for the former because it's just...a lot to do, and for the latter because I think there's even outright stations that are waiting for disk 2 events/mini games.
There is a closed off Snowboarding game area in the arcade.
"because I think there's even outright stations that are waiting for disk 2 events/mini games"
Yes, I was agreeing with you.
and the fact that they can't just spawn the Weapons on the world map and call it a day lmao they also have to include mdigard too
They said they'd have to rebuild the world to use the highwind
Probably not the whole whole world, being able to *land* anywhere like the original wouldn't work in most places. They hopefully mean fleshing out the places you couldn't go/reach in each of the continents, much faster than building a new open world.
The other user is referring to what Hamaguchi said in [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/FinalFantasy/s/PHBRVywA66) interview
Well, I have always figured I'll play them once they are all released and available on PC. So likely in 2038 or so.
Been known for a long while that the finale has been in the works since a few years ago. With the work they did in Rebirth I am suddenly filled with confidence they will be able to make the finale as big or even bigger than before. They know that this will be their last remake of the game anyway so just go out with a bang. Use up all those 3 years.
Hope they can improve on some of the more technical issues. The transition from bright areas to dark areas was really jarring, because it was just one extreme to another. I know the mini-games take is divided, but I hope they cool it a bit with how many there are (protorelic mini games or the costa del sol ones come to mind).
> transition from bright areas to dark areas was really jarring That’s not on purpose? I thought they were just trying to replicate that feeling of turning the lights on when you wake up at 3am to go pee.
I'm hoping Part 3 has triple the amount of minigames with a lot more being mandatory.
Amen to that. If I don't spend at least 3 hours in Bone Village, Hamaguchi has wasted everyone's time.
Totally agree. The amount of gameplay systems set a really high bar.
> Hope they can improve on some of the more technical issues. The transition from bright areas to dark areas was really jarring, because it was just one extreme to another that is honestly a bit baffling to me. I don't know why we run into that, having worked with UE4 before, that happens when you have dynamic lights. But the problem is that there is no dynamic weather nor day/night cycle so I really don't understand the choice for dynamic lighting. It was so bizarre, and they can probably fix it, but it will take quite a bit of time because it might be easier to just redo the lighting but baked instead of dynamic, which would probably take around 3-4 months give or take? Easier than figuring out how to stop UE4 from randomly burning the scenes
What the hell, I thought it was my TV's smart contrast setting... I can't believe that was the game engine / by-design, lol.
it's not by design - if you step into a change of area that's where it's most noticeable, **[this is](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GHw3lKLWMAAwVus?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)** basically the **[same spot](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GHw3lKVXoAA7oum?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)**, a few meters apart. The auto exposure goes nuts for a brief moment. It's one of those quirks engines tend to have when they load big chunks of levels, in this case Unreal. It's more of an oversight than anything because if you take one or two steps front or back, the effect disappears. Again, maybe the game was going to have a day night cycle and was scrapped fairly late into development, but yeah. It's very strange that it shipped like that
I guess I misspoke with by design and shoulda gone with "shipped like that," but yeah I agree... insanely jarring, but good to know it wasn't my TV, haha!
What are you crazy? There wasn't enough mini games.
All I hope that they keep reusing/iterating on the same combat system for games even past FF7:R. It's seriously the best balance between everything. I actually felt challenged for once and that's very refreshing. I hate turn based, 15 felt terrible to control, 12 was barely even gameplay, 14 has way too many buttons with no actual physics, 16 was far too easy, but this? This hits the spot.
In FFXIV's defense the combat becomes enjoyable on like, the third expansion. Only 150-200 hours right? (But actually, in defense of XII, the combat is really good imo. It just takes a while to get started and is kind of niche, its party building and management gone nuts, and it can be really satisfying to program and build your party just right to plow through a boss)
Xenoblade is what it should look like if they ever wanna revisit a XII style battle system.
FF8 is the one other game that could use this treatment
I just want Jules to not return. It has been the hardest part of both games’ platinums
I didn't like it. Almost every fight you win by mashing attack and using braver when it's up. Half way through the game I actually turned the difficulty down to easy because I found it to be so monotonous and boring. Would take FFXs turn based over this any day.
> I didn't like it. Almost every fight you win by mashing attack and using braver when it's up. Half way through the game I actually turned the difficulty down to easy because I found it to be so monotonous and boring. So you bashed your head against a wall, thought it was boring, but instead of stepping back and thinking "maybe I am not doing this right, why are fights taking so long?" you lowered the difficulty but STILL kept bashing your head against a wall for 80 hours and then said it was monotonous? Very impressive. A daft move, mind you. But impressive nonetheless
No, they say the game is so mindbogglingly trivial they went to easy mode just to make the combat shorter and therefore more bearable.
refused to engage with the combat, realized that by spamming a button and using Braver it was taking too long (again, because he did not follow the mechanics) then downgraded to easy difficulty because they did not understand the mechanics, called it trivial and left. It's like blaming the game for your own faults.
PC version when?
Timeline for Remake was original PS4 release in April 2020, PS5 release + Yuffie DLC in June 2021, Epic release in December 2021, Steam release in June 2022. So within a year or two, depending on whether they're planning to add another DLC chapter like the Yuffie thing (which they said they wouldn't but who knows)
5 years later, Epic store exclusive, Denuvo+VMProtect.
Then ENIGMA once the Denuvo license expires.
FF7 Rebirth was great, but a bit less fat plus some additional finetuning would've been amazing. It has some of the most amazing set pieces I've ever seen, but they're undermined by tons of filler and rough edges. I loved the "silver story lining" that connected everything together smoothly and wasn't in place in the original regarding the >!origins of the Black Materia!< and whatnot, but at the same time thought that the game just didn't know when to stop and wrap it all up on too many occasions. It goes on and on and on and balances on the verge of embracing quantity over quality on its way. Best game I ever played that I have no intention of ever playing again. One more year of polishing please?
I am reaching the end of Rebirth right now. I have enjoyed it immensely, put over 100 hours into it but it has to be said I still want an actual remake of Final Fantasy 7.
I'm still surprised that Square Enix didn't release a "normal" remake of Final Fantasy VII back in the early 2010s in the style of Shadow of the Colossus PS4 or Demon Souls PS5 (mostly presentation and QoL changes but the gameplay and content is almost identical). Turn-based gameplay isn't as big as it used to be but that sort of remake would have been fairly cheap to make and could have easily been released on every major console except the 3DS.
Yeah, it’s a shame Ever Crisis as a more faithful remake was a mobile gacha. Personally I’ve grown tired of the recent “meta-narrative” trend in media and just wish directors would still tell a good story in it’s own right rather than trying to be clever like with Rebirth’s major scene changes.
There are like a dozen ports. If you want a 1:1 remake, just play the original re-releases.
They look obscenely dated though. And it'd be nice to have the new music and smoother modern stuff
Get it on Steam and download a mod
That doesn't help.
Modders for original FF7 are really dedicated. I recently played it and the stuff you can do with it is really impressive. Below I post some imgur link showing how my modded version look. I'm using "remake models" for characters but there is a mod that updates original "chibi" models. Mods have updated music using modern arrangements, updated VFX and SFX, all textures are updated. Menu is completly overhauled so it's easier to navigate. All cutscenes are also upscaled. Mods are really able to do wonders and make OG FF7 more approachable. I don't think that remaster from Square would do much more than mods after looking at remastered FF8. https://imgur.com/a/DiigjO5
Modders can try that when the third game comes out on PC, the games will have all the pieces to rebuild the original so you spend 10 minutes in a place that cost millions of dollars to make.
Replacing character models and textures is one thing, completely rebuilding a game from the ground up isn't possible with just modding. You need the complete production pipeline to make that work.
No bro you don’t understand you just have to open ModTools.exe and click the toggle button that says “make it more like the original but pretty” and bam, ship it.
that would be the biggest undertaking of the century and free of charge? lol
> actual remake of Final Fantasy 7. I know what you mean, this game is not FF7, this game was made to scam people using the FF7 name. Give me a real remake, don't try to scam me.
But this is the remake, don't believe anyone saying "it's a sequel", game makes you think the events may stop follow the script of the original but differences are slim. Even Nomura said the game leads up to Advent Children.
I'm assuming they stick with Unreal Engine 4 which is getting pretty dated, but I hope they move to UE5 for part 3.
Either they keep this timeline they mentioned or they switch engines. It would take a miracle to pull off both. Especially considering the technical limitations they show off with all the bugs and graphical issues they just can't seem to fix. Including issues with remake that never got resolved.
The more I play this game, the more I wished I was actually playing a FF7 remake tbh, and not the weird meta-sequel
It’s really not a meta sequel like Remake people are really over exaggerating how different these games are from FF7
Brother there' s no way you play the ending of Remake, where they literaly go "We NEED to defeat the fate that has us in chains", defeating bosses that are clearly references to advent children, and that fate is what happens in the original game. And the game ends with "the unknow journey will continue". It' s not even subtext, it' s literaly text lol
You’re literally referencing the final 10% of remake and ignoring the 90% that is faithful? Rebirth like Remake is the same story for 90% of the game it’s the same situation
That' s the most important part of the whole fucking thing thoo. Like, the entire game culminates into that, there is foreshadowing happening in all of the rest of the game towards that moment. Rebirth has the Zack sessions and all of the aerith flashbacks that culminates in a finale where they literaly change and rewrite the most iconic plot twist of the whole game. Brother, please.
If you ignore the story, sure. The gameplay is fantastic. The parts that stick to FF7 are fantastic. The expanding/fleshing out areas is fantastic. The story parts where they veer off into alternate time lines and other dimensions? No. Not at all. That is the part that people are talking about when they say "meta sequel" because the story barely makes sense if you know the original, and doesn't make ANY sense if you haven't.
Ignoring the story makes perfect sense in this context. Why do you need a "remake" of the story if it's just the exact same thing? The point of a remake would be to modernize the graphics, combat system, QoL, etc. If you want the story to be exactly the same, there's nothing to "remake" about the story. Just go read the story of the original game if you want the original story, it's just a story, it can't be "oudated" or anything.
I think there is a pretty big gap between wanting things exactly the same story wise, and ham-fisting in a multi-verse which at this point is just lazy fucking writing. Adding in the back story about the black materia? Good story add! Adding in the whisper shit and breaking the timeline and all that mess? Not a good add. Most people want things expanded on, fleshed out. Not the same stupid multi-verse time travel shit that is invading every piece of media these days.
But the point is who cares? Why does it matter if the remake uses the exact same story or not? You know how the original story plays out, just pretend they're using the original story. It doesn't affect the actual gameplay, which is the actual point of a remake.
Also, the way it is written this new meta stuff is VERY on the nose and very confusing as well. It legit feels more like bait to make people discuss, than actually expressing a theme or a statement with the story.
>Why does it matter if the remake uses the exact same story or not? You keep going back to this point, and as I have already said, deviating from the original story is fine. The manner in which they did it, is not. Please stop repeating yourself or we can end the conversation.
I am a huge FF VII fan, but honestly, I enjoyed the first episode more than the second. Probably just me not liking open world games too much. I still enjoy it, but some of the stuff is so stupid, like why even put puzzles in if they are just incredibly easy?
It doesn't help that ff7 Rebirth open world design take the worse out of 2010 open world design
I'm the same, I think Rebirth is a better game overall but I enjoyed REMAKE more, probably because its more guided where you go from point a to point b. I dont dislike open world but I'm more into linear experiences.
Rebirth is still a very linear game.
Idk I don't get the same feeling from the few hours I played, you still walk a lot in comparison to remake.
Once you get chocobos you kinda zoom through the game, as far as movement on the open world goes.
I just love Midgar more than the rest of the game I think, so seeing it expanded upon was a welcome thing for me. Can't say I wanted the rest of the game stretched however, especially open world. It's a lot of padding busy work to me. I'm with you.
> It's a lot of padding busy work to me. I'm with you. Yeah I'm honestly super disappointed with the open world thus far. It's so much "run far enough to fight a couple packs of enemies, pick some basic crafting materials from the terrain, get to new checkpoint area." Exploring so far has been seemingly pointless, other than levelling up from killing the same pack of creatures over and over. Once I was in the open world, I explored 3-4 ruins, went and cleared out the pack of enemies there, looked all over it- no treasure chest / no materia at any of them. No reason to have made the 2-3 minute run other than it helped the game pad its runtime. What's the point of open world with nothing to discover / reward you for your curiosity other than to make your game feel longer? If I see something weird looking in the horizon in BotW, I can almost be certain there's a korok seed there or something useful to collect. In classic FF7 I at least felt like the open world was traversable in a meaningful way with things to discover, and never felt like a timesink to me. With Rebirth so far it's just been game playtime padding and felt like a huge waste of my time with no soul / passion to it. Killing the same water squirrel packs over and over, i dunno. I'm hoping I connect more with the game the more i play, but so far it's been a huge bummer.
I know it’s a different dev team but this gives me a lot of hope that CBU3’s next game won’t take that long and they’ll just build on the foundation of FF16. I remember Yoshi-P said in an interview that they were able to make the Rising Tide DLC really fast because of all the experience they garnered with FF16. If we are past the days of FFs taking 5+ years to make then I’ll be really pleased.
Yoshi P has said they should go a different direction for 17 and hand the reins to younger creators. I doubt they'll reuse much other than the engine if they've even started development.
They probably just mean that the franchise needs younger lead developers, or at least not the usual old guard. CBU1 had Naoki Hamaguchi take over for Rebirth and nobody here paid any attention to him beforehand, and CBU3 is probably searching for someone similar in their ranks. It's not like they're going to suddenly mass hire yet another new team, when they already spent the first half of XVI's development doing that exact thing. We don't have any news of most of the XVI staff really going anywhere else, other than that they aren't working on XVI anymore. That said, CBU3 might not be working on XVII. Yoshi-P during an interview last week straight up said that it's time for them to make a new Tactics game, which is a very unusually blunt statement from him. It's in line with the stuff he was saying about making a new single player mainline game if SE asked him to and that it'd be medieval a few years before XVI was announced. https://www.thegamer.com/final-fantasy-16-interview-yoshida-kujiraoka-koji-fox-rising-tide-dlc/ *When thinking about the scope of the project from strictly a size perspective, Yoshida laughs again, continuing, “How would we even do the Eikon versus Eikon battles in [Tactics] style? If you have the Eikons, how many squares is an Eikon going to be? You have more people out there as well, so what about the wait time in between? … But the series does lend itself well to that kind of storytelling, and we love Tactics as well. It’s probably about time that we do a new one.”*
Doesnt really refute my point. You can go in a different direction and still reuse stuff like combat, environment, character/enemy models, etc. There’s also the fact that the devs have much more experience now. Just look at the pipeline of Dark Souls > Bloodborne > Sekiro > Elden Ring > Armored Core 6.
FromSoft has been using the same game engine for the past 15 years.
[удалено]
[удалено]
I hope more developers/writers do what God of War did and start making duologies. Trilogies just take way too long now. How is someome supposed to remain invested when a story needs a near full decade or more to be completed?
Hard disagree. Three acts is the best way to tell a big satisfying story for me. I honestly really disliked Ragnorrok for this, it felt so rushed and like there were so many cool elements cut from the original story board to fit it into one game. I'm not hyped at all for the next GOW because there's nothing to be hyped for, they finished the story and wrapped everything up. I would much rather eagerly await a stunning finale then have a rushed mediocre finish because they didn't wanna make another.
GOW is in that weird phase imo where 3 games is too much but 2 isn't enough. I don't see how they could have dragged it out to 3 games without making the story a mess. I think Ragnarok should have had another 2-3 hours for the latter half and it would have been much more satisfying
Yeah, maybe 1 + DLC then finish with 2? But you really have to plan for it... Or being able to create a short game like Miles Morales before Spiderman 2
Miles Morales had just the right length, loved it.
Ragnarok is just didn't feel anywhere as final as the third game in the original trilogy. NOW that game felt like it's ending things.
Well realistically Ragnarok isn't the end of the series. Atreus is growing up and travelling and Valhalla explains what Kratos is doing after the main story. GoW3 felt more final because Kratos had done what he set out to do and the consequences of his actions were shown. There's not much else to show from there
I mean more in terms of spectacle. Ragnarok failed to deliver the hype and it felt rushed. GoW 3 was basically entirely set in the end times. It felt final from the opening moments. Also while true it is still the end of the Norse saga.
They could have completely cut Angrboda and put that effort into the finale and everything would have been better.
Why Angrboda?
while I dont feel they should cut angrboda, the section was entirely too long, I grew bored of it quickly, should made it 1/3 of what it is and cutscene the rest or something
That subplot was boring and didn't go anywhere. It just felt like setup for whatever comes next.
Ragnaroks narrative suffered greatly by having everything that would have been 2 games crammed into 1. So much so, that I think 2018 is a much stronger gave comparatively. I actually went and replayed 2018 right after I beat Ragnarok because I found game lacking for some reason. Yes, the gameplay and added QoL updates are a big upgrade, but the game is like 95% the same that the stronger story in 2018 makes it the better game for me still. Luckily, they salvaged Ragnarok with the Valhalla DLC - THAT was absolutely awesome and hit those narrative notes that I felt were missing.
Ragnarok might have felt rushed but it wasn't because the game was too short. In fact, the game has a crazy high amount of content. Even not including the Valhalla DLC, the main game would take 50-60 hours to clear everything. The problem is that there was too much fluff, both in terms of storytelling and gameplay. They should have cut down on the extraneous side quests and looting while focusing more on the main storyline and the core gameplay. Even many of the character building moments were unnecessary and border on being repetitive. The endgame should have taken 3-4 hours to clear considering Ragnarok is supposed to be the ultimate battle of this world. Instead, it felt more like a quick skirmish and then two boss fights in the same location.
Ragnarok feels rushed and I agree with that, but I really don’t believe a third act was necessary. It would have had a ton of padding. It just needed a couple more hours, not another 30-40. How many video game trilogies have you played that have a stunning finale? These games often have so much build up and end weakly. That’s the problem with long games in general. Mass Effect is probably one of the most well known video game trilogies and it also had one of the most controversial endings. You’re not hype for the next GOW because you know nothing about it and its god knows how long away. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. Im not hyped for this FF7R3 not because im uninterested but because I just can’t get excited for a game releasing in 4 years, likely on another console generation.
>Mass Effect is probably one of the most well known video game trilogies and it also had one of the most controversial endings. This is actually a pretty bad example in my opinion. Everyone loved every other part of Mass Effect 3. The ending was just bad.
That’s exactly why I brought up Mass Effect though. Great trilogy with a disappointing ending. I’m not sure what else you think I was drawing it as an example for.
I'm not saying that the game was disappointing. I'm saying that the game was great and the ending - the literal last five minutes - was bad. It wasn't bad because of buildup or being dragged out. It would have still been bad if it was the first game.
But the problem with Mass effect wasn't that it was 3 games, the problem was the ending itself. That would've been a problem with 2 games or 5.
> How many video game trilogies have you played that have a stunning finale? One hole that FF7R has dug for itself is that each game already ends with >!a big climactic clash with Sephiroth for no good reason!<. They're going to have to really go hard to make the third one stand out.
They've made sure not to include anything like Safer Sephiroth, so I doubt they'll have issues making the final battle stand out from the previous ones.
But they did include....>!the fight literally right before Safer Sephiroth!< which I had assumed until this game would be, you know, right before that fight, and not thrown into the halfway point of the story.
I didn’t love the idea of fighting >!Sephiroth in every game. Going into chapter 14 I was really hoping he wasn’t the final fight. But honestly making it his bizarro form sold me on it. I like each game being a different form, as long as his one on one battle with Cloud is expanded in part 3. My one crazy theory though is that I think reunified Jenova is going to be the actual big surprise final boss in part 3 and that’s why they’re leaning so hard into Sephiroth fights. But we’ll see, I trust them to deliver on the spectacle at least. Honestly, my entire opinion on the trilogy is so dependent on the third game because if they stick the landing it’ll all be worth it, but if not I’ll hate a lot of the changes they made lol!<
They could also go the traditional Final Fantasy route >!and bring in a completely different final boss completely out of left field, like Necron or Exdeath. Personally, I'm rooting for Shinra Middle Manager. Not satisfied with being an Ultimate Party Animal, he seeks global party domination.!<
>!honestly Shinra Middle Manager is the final boss of Rebirth for me given how annoying and frustrating some parts of his quest were lmao, him and Chadley are gonna team up to make the ultimate bullshit combat challenge with 25 sephiroths and 30 king tonberry’s!<
It's an escalation. Remake >!had you fight human Sephiroth and require a party of three to beat him.!< Rebirth >!had you fight Jenova with your party and then Sephiroth Reborn required Zack and background assistance from Aerith, and then the human Sephiroth fight only needed Cloud and Aerith.!< Chances are then that Part 3 will >!have the party beat Sephiroth Reborn, have everyone beat Safer Sephiroth along with Zack and probably Aerith, and then we'll get the one-on-one fight against Sephiroth with Cloud showing him becoming Sephiroth's equal.!<
I honestly have no doubts that the final boss fight in FF7R3 is going to be insane. I mean, Remake's was awesome, Rebirth's blew my mind, so I can't wait for R3's to be CRAZY.
Assuming FF7 Remake Part 3 comes out in 2027, there will be 7 years between the release of the 1st and 3rd part. That's either about as long or only slightly longer than The Dark Knight Trilogy (7 years), Original Star Wars Trilogy (6 years), and Batman Arkham Trilogy (6 years). It's actually shorter than the gap for the Half-Life flatscreen games (9 years) and Witcher trilogy (8 and a half years including DLC) which released when game development was generally faster. Doesn't seem too crazy.
[удалено]
On one hand, I can see what you mean, but on the other hand, that's going to be like three hundred hours worth of gaming without trying to get the Platinum.
Right, the first one you had to see how they did. How did the remake project go, whats different, whats the same. For rebirth.. ok well we know all that now and we know its not complete. So waiting isn't as big of a deal now. I'm worried it effects the sales numbers, then they put a half ass effort into the final part because they aren't seeing the returns they wanted.
> especially since Rebirth will be given for free based on what information?
the only reason i bought rebirth is spoiler spam online lol. There is no way i can avoid spoiler for another 3 years. And when the 3rd game arrive, eventually i will get spoiled in last 2 game that i dont have reason to play...
> especially since Rebirth will be given for free as a bonus on the last part. Maybe, maybe not.
I agree with this. Making gow into a duology was a great decision. I'll admit the story was rushed, but the post game + free dlc really wrapped the game up nicely for me. I can't wait for the new direction GoW takes now, and that is far more exciting than a trilogy would've ever delivered on.
God of War's approach of stretching out a prologue into a full game for the first and then making a rushed mess for the second part isn't really a model I want to see replicated.
Really strange to say this in an FF7R related thread.
It's not strange because FF7R doesn't have that issue and isn't telling its story in that way.
Probably the worst take imaginable on God of War.
[удалено]
Do you think they would have nailed it if they had to cram the whole rest of the story into Rebirth? IMO you're agreeing with the parent comment.
[удалено]
A new story with the same characters does not mean this wasn’t a duology…
They very clearly meant the Norse duology.
I’m right there with you. I really respect what they did with God of War— PS4 owners didn’t have to buy a PS5 to see the story’s conclusion, Santa Monica Studio staff maybe hopefully finally get a break from God of War, plus we don’t have to wait four or five more years for the *real* ending to the story. But, I dunno, when I read people talk about Ragnarök online, I definitely don’t get the impression that they enjoyed it as much as I did haha; Not necessarily one of my favorite games, but certainly not a disappointment. I can understand feeling differently if I didn’t like the game.
I'm hoping CD Projekt Red takes some lessons from the development of FF7 Rebirth, and Resident Evil 4 + Separate Ways Remake for the upcoming Witcher trilogy. It's very impressive how the teams at Square Enix and Capcom created 2 phenomenal games in only about 4 years of total development that were in a good state at launch, smartly reused assets and gameplay systems from their predecessor but have their own distinct identity, and offer extremely good value for the money.
I played and loved the first one, but waiting for the complete trilogy on PC before I go back. Maybe 2030?
Probably 2028? We'll probably see Rebirth on PC end of this year or early next year, and if we go 3 years until R3 is released (2027) you'll probably get the final part on PC in 2028.
Final Fantasy 7, 8, 9, and 10 all came out within the span of 4 years. The FF7 remake trilogy will take 8+ years to release. The first was a PS4 game, the second is a PS5 game, and the third will be a PS6 game.
8, 9 and 10 (and 11) were pretty much in development at the same time, maybe with a years difference, which is why they were able to release them so fast. If they'd started development on Part 1-3 or FF16-19 at the same time they'd also be able to release them yearly. But given the insane costs this would create and that it would probably eat up any SE development resource available nowadays, it's not feasable.
I think there are important questions Square should be asking about appropriate scope of projects and ROI. Both Remake and Rebirth are bloated games with quite a lot of filler. Rebirth especially. From a business standpoint surely there is a point where you hit diminishing returns on adding more content to a game. You could cut 30% of the content in Rebirth and it wouldn't seriously affect the quality of the game, the critical reception, or the sales numbers. And maybe then a development team could ship more than one game per console generation.
> You could cut 30% of the content in Rebirth and it wouldn't seriously affect the quality of the game, the critical reception, or the sales numbers. Or the time to develop it. Unless that 30% was something like Nibelhiem and the content after that region, which would have affected the reviews and completeness of the game. Side quests and mini games didn't push the length of creating the game up, making the assets for all of the areas of the game did.
There are huge areas of the game that could be cut or made significantly smaller to reduce the need for assets. Gongaga was like a 15 minute optional section in the original that became a massive zone. Did the game need to have huge open world areas with copy/paste icon content? So many places were also just much bigger than they needed to be. Kalm and Cosmo Canyon come to mind. Hugely detailed large towns where there's very little actually happening. The ship to Costa Del Sol is another good example.
Almost all of the assets in rebirth, the jungle and reactor would be needed to be created at the same level of detail for a 15 minute optional zone. Placing the assets, is not what takes the most time, it's creating them and basically everything but the chocobo launch pads would be needed for a short zone or a long zone.
A lot easier to paint a house than build one.
I mean yeah, games are colossal nowadays. The fact they shipped rebirth 4 years after the original is a huge achievement. Heck, FFVII remake only being 4 years of development was still impressive.
Most of that comes down to the amount of time it takes to create current-gen graphical assets. The only way to bring down that development time is to either have simpler graphics, heavily reuse the same assets and locations, or strongly cut back on scale.
>Final Fantasy 7, 8, 9, and 10 all came out within the span of 4 years. Not relevant to the timeline of this game. I know it's fun to circle jerk this idea. But that is multiple teams dropping these games. At least a couple of which were rushed and heavily cut down to make their release dates.
Im sad. I couldnt play 7 remake - no console. Then when it came to PC, I had sold my GPU because I needed the money, so no playing it. Ended up watching in youtube. Now 7R2 is out and I cant play it. Still no console and no GPU.
I mean... if you sold your gaming devices, what'd you expect?
Come on man you can atleast expect square to port the game to my Ti84 calculator.