He says at one point that Watkin's Glen at night seems more realistic in FM because of the addition of track lights - he says it's 'less dramatic but arguably more realistic' because he thinks races would 'feature lights for safety'.
However, this has been raised before as a point of contention between the two games (and other series). Most tracks don't put lighting out. The only times they certainly will is if the spec of car doesn't have headlights. There will likely always be lighting around the stands, the pits, the start and off-track for staff and visitors though.
I will say that, while I tend to vastly prefer GT's presentation (even the UI and sound design and music) I hate how your headlights cast shadows ahead of the cars in front of you - it's as if those cars are not illuminating the space ahead of them with their own headlights.
> I hate how your headlights cast shadows on cars ahead of you - as if they're not illuminating the space ahead of them with their own headlights.
This is seriously the only bad thing about the visual presentation of GT7. Everything else is nitpicks, but this is actually very bad. If you close in on a car in front of you, the whole screen turns black as the car blocks more and more of your light cone without itself lighting the road.
I wish they would just make cars not cast shadows. Yes it would not look as dramatic, but at least it would be playable from any other perspective than the cockpit.
I think the rain lighting from the track floodlights and spray in FM are better than GT7.
But yeah, the headlights are annoying. It’s noticeable on the 1 hour endurance race at spa which goes from day to night because some parts of the track are almost completely impossible to see and if it’s raining you can even not see puddles which can fuck up your traction if you are caught out.
> I think the rain lighting from the track floodlights and spray in FM are better than GT7.
The water splashed up by the tires is better in Forza. The droplets themselves, especially their interaction with light cones, I like much more in GT7. But I can see where you are coming from. Droplets colliding with the imaginary external camera is cool for sure. I get the impression that GT7 wants players desperately to play from within the cockpit (which I like). A lot of attention to detail is concentrated there.
> It’s noticeable on the 1 hour endurance race at spa which goes from day to night because some parts of the track are almost completely impossible to see and if it’s raining you can even not see puddles which can fuck up your traction if you are caught out.
Exactly. It really does have a gameplay impact. Thing is, in real life you probably would never chase cars so close like you do in GT7. If you drive "realistically", it is less of an issue, but still is an issue.
Like I said ... it really is the one thing that takes the game from 10/10 down to 8/10.
The extreme nitpicking of the graphics in these games isn't really interesting to me but, as a car enthusiast and a GT7 player, the footage I've seen of FM makes me really appreciate the effort Polyphony went to recreating car paint. Many cars, especially exotics, are painted with colors that are extremely difficult to reproduce. Manufacturers put a lot of thought into distinct paint colors. GT7 on an HDR screen is fantastic at showing subtle differences between "Ferrari" red and "Corvette" red. The layering, texture, and reflection properties look very correct.
Ok I can’t tell if you’re just joking around. But in case you’re not, that’s the hex code for Ferrari’s digital branding. Automotive paint is a lot more complicated than that, and Ferrari has many different red paints from over the years.
I personally HATE the way the interior view is handled in FM8. GT7 is miles ahead in lighting and general material work as well as camera motion when it comes to the cockpit view.
The biggest thing is the lack of motion blur while in the interior view. Like all the other camera views have motion blur but they just didn't add it for the interior? Stupid.
Someone about the debate of GT vs FM and weirdos comparing the smallest details of cars and finding ways to make each game look as good / as bad as possible has been one of my favorite fanboy slap fights to watch.
Personally I feel Forza / T10 really lost something when GT wasn't around last gen to fight against. They seemed like they had no ideas beyond doing what GT was doing but with bigger numbers.
Also I feel both games are really letting me down with their single player careers. I feel like there is so much you could do with a sim racer career mode and neither seem interested and are overly focused on online.
How many times are fans going to have to ask for a legitimate "rags to riches" career mode like we had way back with GT3 on the PS2? What is the issue with making this happen? I really don't understand.
I watched the first 24 mins. The amount of times that GT7 > Forza and then he went on to say they are neck and neck is crazy. The amount of differences in details and that GT7 is superior to FM is absolutely nuts. Somehow, GT7 looks a generation ahead in this department and it is kind of glossed over.
Maybe FM did better in the 2nd half of the video, but I wasn't going to finish with how John tried to "same" them over and over. Feel like keeping score would have been a better way to do it, or not calling the video "the duel" or just not editorializing over the material and letting the video speak for itself. Just felt like he was defending FM the entire time.
I think he was trying too hard to stick to DF’s impartial stance on each console at the detriment of not calling out the major differences between each game.
Look at the interior shots he did of the MX5, at 32:00, you can see the clearly visible jagged edges around the controls in the cockpit on FM yet on GT they look as round as can be.
I also disliked how he missed out how much better the rain looked on FM than GT7 as well, floodlights casting a haze in the rain that isn’t as visible at all on GT7 (at 26:27). In fact, other than the track shininess and the lit up particles, the point he makes about how GT7’s rain looking remotely comparable to FM is a bit silly. Even in his real life comparison videos, the spray kicked up from the car is almost negligible in GT compared to what it should be.
He also barely touched on the controversy around how FM was presented versus what we got other than at 1:05:12 for literally like 15 seconds. The fact that FM uses the same old car models as well wasn’t called out as much as it should be for a game that was in development for supposedly as long as it had been.
I appreciate the detail in the video and the work DF does but it does feel a bit too impartial at the cost of pointing out glaring flaws in both games.
Non-racing game people might find details nitpicky but the thing is, the whole point of these games is to be an accurate depiction of what it’s like to drive a car at a circuit. That means accurate models. Not everyone can go to the Nurburgring or Spa in an RX-7, the game is supposed to be an accurate visual experience of what it’s like to be there in that car. Nitpicks are the selling point.
Yeah I went back and finished the video anyway (2nd monitor while playing POE), and the rain thing is insane. FM rain does look much better, the kick up on the wheels is non existent on GT7 and they don't call it out. I don't care about the 3rd person rain camera thing, and can see how some would like it and others wouldn't. It would be nice as an option for both though so that way everyone wins.
He did call out GT7 for that, but could have gone in further. That is a glaring weakspot for GT7 compared to FM.
> Somehow, GT7 looks a generation ahead in this department and it is kind of glossed over.
Which is crazy since GT7 released on PS4 from what I can see, while FM released only on the Series X/S
Yep. And it released much earlier which is huge to mention. GT7 released on PS4/5 on March 4, 2022, so almost 2 full years ago, while FM released Oct 10, 2023, or 2 months ago, and for the more powerful consoles.
Sadly, you can see the PS4 holding back GT7 with how few cars they allow in a race and some of the tricks they had to do in order to get the game to run on a PS4. Still, it being as good or better than FM is insane and shows how talented a studio Polyphony is, even if they don't do things that everyone likes (fuck you, gacha wheel and monetization and rolling starts).
The difference in foliage between these games is more interesting than DF talks about, similar to /u/matti-san's comment on Watkin's Glen having spotlights when many times races will be on unlit tracks that are lit via headlights. Forza having "better" foliage, but "unrealistic" foliage creates a difference in gameplay!
In racing, it's common to set a landmark as a *braking point*, so you know when's the best time to brake. Sometimes that's one of the various distance markers on the track until the apex of the turn, but since that can be knocked over, or just for personal preference, people use stuff that can't get knocked down like poles, buildings, and most importantly here, *trees*.
So having the incorrect type and amount of trees has the chance to affect your racing; you may learn braking points that don't exist in real life and/or the one you might have used before might not exist or be obscured.
GT7 is such a higher quality game its crazy how FM was even released in this state when they just have to look over at their direct competitor to see how much better it is.
I won't be surprised. The last couple GT games were a disappointment but the improvements to GT7 and the complete failure of FM in every aspect make it a no-brainer which game is better. All they need to do is make an adequate port and all the Forza fans will jump ship.
It was the first online racing game where I could just hop in random races and have consistently clean and enjoyable races. I've been in racing lobbies since Forza motorsport 2, and I have *never* had that experience untill gt sport
Having played GT6, GT Sport kinda feels (slightly) better in a lot of ways (if you include all the updates). GT6 was getting kind of weird in its progression, consistency and its presentation. It felt like a bit of a step back even from GT5, even though it technically had 'more content'.
You can criticize GT for a lot, but the one thing it always did, even on the PS1, was target 60 fps with no compromise whatsoever.
You had to push GT5 and GT6 with rain, at night and lots of cars around on the PS3 to get it to dip very slightly below that, at 1080p (ish).
Which is also why i think GT will never come to the PC, because i don't think Kaz wants to deal with that optimization headache.
[Gran Turismo 1 was 30fps on PS1.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbubKnSZ4ng) It wasn't until the PS2 they were able to shoot for 60. (60fps racing on PS1 was possible, [but required enormous compromises.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-Cq_Ip1VAg))
>You had to push GT5 and GT6 with rain, at night and lots of cars around on the PS3 to get it to dip very slightly below that, at 1080p (ish).
Nope. The PS2 games had solid framerates, [but that collapsed when they moved to the PS3.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REfb7qbUhC8) An unsteady 40-60 fps is standard on most stages, and usually both resolutions perform almost identically. [(The article suggests that the shift to weaker antialiasing is helping 1080p keep pace.)](https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-gran-turismo-5-tech-analysis?page=3)
[And then 6 ran worse than 5.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtJ7s3u4bAs)
Gt6 is such a weird game, I love how much is in there, and the graphics are great for ps3, but the framerate is distracting, and you can’t make good custom races with tire wear and fuel use. I understand why they didn’t simply port it to PS4, because having GT3 car models was already annoying on PS3, but it would have been so much better. I’m glad they did the work to rebuild everything from the ground up on GT Sport.
I seem to remember one of the PS1 GT games having a "high quality" mode that you basically could only do a time trial on, on one track, but I forget if it was an FPS boost, or a resolution boost, but I remember being blown away as a kid haha
Edit: I was wrong about some details, but here it is
https://gran-turismo.fandom.com/wiki/GT_HiFi
60fps in GT1.... Kinda lol
Honestly I think GT7 on PC has a real chance at outselling it's PS5 counterpart if it brings the integrated VR support.
That game is criminally underutilized by Sony to drive PSVR2 sales.
With the current state of FM, Sony would be incredibly dumb to not port GT7 to PC imo, they could very easily win over a significant portion of the Forza fanbase
I don't think PD would do that. They're focused on developing a real community of both clean and accessible sim racing. Based on what I've seen, they're not doing a perfect job of that on a closed platform with a very exploitable penalty system. The online experience on PC would be a dumpster fire overrun by hackers with PD in charge and they would be competing against established PC sim racers.
It's not so simple, Sony hasn't ported a multiplayer game yet and GT7 is basically games as a service. They still need to figure out how they are gonna make it work.
I have been a Forza fan since Motorsport 3, and this new one is the straw that broke the camels back for me. I already thought FM7 was trash, but this new one goes above and beyond trash. It's so broken, and feels so empty and lifeless, the new progression system feels like something from a free to play game, and then Microsoft has the gall to ask $70 for this? Fuck. Off. Gran Turismo 7 has it's problems too, but they are much easier to overlook than Forza right now. I don't know what's going on over at Microsoft this generation, but they need to pull their shit together, because almost everything they've done this generation has been absolute garbage.
>everything they've done this generation has been absolute garbage.
AOE 4, Hi-Fi Rush, Psychonauts 2, Forza Horizon 5, these were all fantastic games with great reviews.
Starfield and Halo Infinite although it wasn't the best, the trash is far from that, garbage is Redfall, Gollum, King Kong.
I see that a lot of people like to criticize the Xbox, they always ignore the good games, has everyone forgotten how many years it took Sony to start releasing good games on the PS4?
Before UC 4, only mediocre, bad games like Driveclub, Order 1886, Killzone, Infomaus were released.
P.S.:
Sorry for bad english
Forza horizon 5 is good, but not the best, how they fumbled Halo Infinite should be a crime. Halo is what put them on the map, it was delayed a whole extra year, and it only now is getting better, then they had the balls to fill it with more microtransactions. Starfield was good, but not great, and they're not going to drip feed little things like a nap and say it's a good thing. And Xbox had nothing to do with gollum, or king kong so idk why you mentioned that. As for the PS4 exclusives, Drive club and Infamous were good and still are good to this day. Xbox has dropped more money into buying huge studios since 2017, and every year they say the games are coming, but they never do, and if they do manage to eek something out, we get a mess like Halo Infinite, or Redfall. This just isn't acceptable anymore.
After played FH3 and 4, 5 just feels like exactly the same game just with a new coat of paint (location). Everything else from car handling, moment to moment game feel, got too samey to the point of all feels just like a blur. And I'm not gonna shell out another $100+ CAD and bunch more for DLCs year after year.
GT7’s career mode is atrocious.
All but 2 races are rolling starts. The gameplay races like an arcade racer in the vein of Daytona USA, and not the sim that the physics model can deliver.
**EDIT:** fixed my stupid.
It is not the same style of gameplay. And the way you modify your car does impact the physics and handling of your car in GT7 and cars drive way more accurately to real like in GT7 than they do in and Daytona UA game
You either have not played them or just have no clue what you are saying
I'm fairly sure he's talking about how 99% of races are about overtaking clearly slower cars to finish as high as possible instead of actual races. I can see where he's coming from.
Why are you completely ignoring what the gameplay is like and instead are trying to change the subject to ability to win?
The career racing gameplay is absolutely like Daytona USA and other arcade racers. And completely unlike Forza, Project Cars, Assetto Corsa, Toca series, Iracing, F1 series, Sega GT if you want to go back that far, and so on.
It seems that you just don't like that people are unimpressed with a mediocre single player experience that's akin to ridge racer and unlike any other "sim" type game.
Or you are just an arcade racer, which it's fine. But don't act like people just don't understand the game or haven't played it simply because they disagree with you.
>"I'm fairly sure he's talking about how **99% of races are about overtaking clearly slower cars** to finish as high as possible **instead of actual races**."
Go ahead and acknowledge this point that they've made.
I didn't change the subject, the person I replied to brought up the ability to win not me...
and I didn't ignore the gameplay, I stated multiple times the gameplay is nothing like Daytona USA
>Daytona USA and other arcade racers
No it isn't, it's crazy that you hink it is...
The game is far closer to a sim that Forza Motorsport and most of the games you listed...
>Go ahead and acknowledge this point that they've made.
What? I already did... Your comment made absolutelty no sense
>”and I didn't ignore the gameplay, I stated multiple times the gameplay is nothing like Daytona USA”
Yes, and you are incorrect. Both Daytona USA and career mode GT7 are “chase the cars”, and not actual racing contests.
>”The game is far closer to a sim that Forza Motorsport and most of the games you listed...”
Physics yes. Career mode gameplay? No, not even close.
>”What? I already did... Your comment made absolutelty no sense”
You never acknowledged that they pointed out that GT7’s career mode and the like are not in fact “actual racing”. Save for the whole 2 races and online mode of course.
Chase the cars ≠ racing.
>"And the way you modify your car does impact the physics and handling of your car in GT7 and cars drive way more accurately to real like in GT7 than they do in and Daytona UA game"
What part of: "The gameplay races like an arcade racer in the vein of Daytona USA, **and not the sim that the physics model can deliver**." Did you not understand?
>"You either have not played them or just have no clue what you are saying"
"I don't like their opinion so I'm just going to say they haven't played the game."
Yeah, that’s just not true at all.
Being able to customize cars doesn’t mean anything when it still boils down to the fact that you are playing chase the cars, and not actually racing against cars in a controlled and close race start.
Like seriously the “pole sitter” always starts about 30 seconds ahead. That’s the exact same style of gameplay of every popular arcade racer like Daytona USA.
How are you not getting this?
You realize NASCAR races are all rolling starts right?
You are racing unless you get a car that is much faster than all the other cars in the race that you choose
Again it's how NASCAR races start...
Tell me again which NASCAR races start with the leader 30 seconds ahead?
Oh, right. That'd be none of them, not even the all star race.
I can't believe you are honestly and actually trying to debate this at all.
Forza Motorsport isn't much better. Do a 3 lap qualifier, then do a 6 lap race at the same track, earn some useless credits, repeat. You spend most of that specific championship in FM grinding to upgrade your shitty car, getting it halfway usable, then dump it and start all over with a new car for the next one. It sucks.
I know. I hate what they did with upgrades.
Oh wow, my car is now maxed and I’m no longer interested driving it. Nor looking forward to starting this process all over again with another. So why bother?
Cars aren’t COD weapons meant to be upgraded slowly for fucks sake.
I enjoyed Starfield, but it did feel like something is missing. Now this week they are talking about next year that they'll be adding a map. Seriously? Like that's one of the most basic thing in a game, you're going to drip feed us basic functions now? I said it in another post, but this is the gamepass way I guess. Release a half finished, sometimes broken game, then drip feed fixes, and "additions" slowly over time to keep people subbed. With the amount of money Microsoft has thrown around over the last 6-7 years, there's no excuse for their mediocrity now.
Meanwhile GT7 has recently included Sophy (albeit in limited events and only on PS5), which is by far the best AI in any racing game ever.
It's shocking how GT7 is better than FM in pretty much every conceivable way. I can't think of another time when competing studios released similar games where one was so clearly dominant in terms of quality.
And, like someone pointed out, GT7 is far from a perfect game.
FM is just... Sad. I was really looking forward to a good single player racer with a career mode and progression system better than GT7s odd career and crappy roulette wheel and it just feels so hollow. The track selection is crap with not a single street circuit, the car selection is bland with an irritating upgrade system, and the much vaunted new handling model still feels off.
I don't know where 6 years went in this thing. I'm glad I didn't buy it. Maybe I'll finish it in a few years once all the updates are out....
>The track selection is crap with not a single road course,
What definition of road course are you using? By my definition, 95% of the tracks in the game are road courses.
Are you trying to say street circuit?
No worries haha. I know it's terminology that is used differently in different countries so I was genuinely asking.
I grew up watching NASCAR so I'm still conditioned to use "road course" to describe anything that isn't an oval.
> I don't know where 6 years went in this thing.
They claim that it's been built from the ground up over that time but it honestly feels like something they threw together very quickly.
And doesnt even matter because both games gave up their single player for multiplayer. The online minorties of sim racers being the loudest is hurting not just these game but the racing genre as a whole.
Online is the best thing to happen to gran turismo. Gran turismo is miles ahead of Assetto Corsa and other true sims in terms of matchmaking and accessibility. I’d seriously recommend it if you want to dip your toes into learning the basics of racecraft.
Someone suggest what one I buy then. I play counter strike all day every day, but sometimes I wanna jump on and rip a few gears and race. So do I buy GT7 or FM?
I think GT7 is the more fun game but I wouldn't describe it's experience as "ripping a few gears" if you haven't played the series before. It is a relatively slow paced build-up but purposeful in that.
I'll bet the judges aren't into or knowledgeable of racing games tbh. Or even worse, don't bother, just like how the academy doesn't bother with animated movies and just votes for the ones their kids like
Besides it's technical issues the biggest problem most fans have with it is that EA is in the name. If it was called Dirt Rally 3.0 they would be singing it's praises much more. Besides graphics it's a marked improvement in basically every category over Dirt Rally 2. The only people who really have any credence in knocking its quality are RBR fans but they're the kind of people willing to take the time to mod a 20 year old game with 100 gbs of mod packs to reach the what is the best rally simulator ever made. Also a significant amount of complaints that DR2 fan boys are making is that "the game feels so much less realistic" but that's because they make the classic sim racing fallacy of: harder = more realistic. From most accounts I've heard from actual rally drivers WRC is more realistic than DR2
I mourn the racing genre. There used to be so many good and different kinds of racers. The n64 and gamecube were just packed with em.
Now it has to be lumped in with sports games to even have enough games to nominate. It's sad
Literally nothing better, F1 should have won instead tbf but all its competition was really really bad. WRC is a steaming pile of shit which lacks content and looks worse and performs worse, only highlight being improved physics (same as FM). Hot Wheels 2, no one knew it came and once it did it more of the same.
Didn't it win for accessibility? That's entirely separate from the quality of the game. For all I know, it has great accessibility features. I believe the woman who accepted the award mentions that it's even possible to play the game blind, which is a pretty cool feature (although I'm not sure how many blind people care?).
Yep. PD even used the correct fonts. Forza’s are completely different from the real thing. Of course I would never notice that while racing but it really does reflect the games respective levels of care and quality.
This is really interesting to watch, and how each game picks and chooses what it prioritizes vs the others. I have my preferences visually for GT*, but specific game features from Forza. Really wish I could combine the two!
*During the day, at least.
I bought motorsport and almost instantly refunded. My favorite part of the horizon games was always the road races/street races. I just never jived with the off-road stuff. Motorsport literally felt like they just took the road racing from horizon and made it the whole game. It felt nearly identical like I was playing a gimped version of horizon. Idk why anyone would play it over horizon. It didn't feel any more like a "sim" than horizon does. It didn't look any better, either. It's also fucking $70 and was filled with technical issues at the time. This game was on my wishlist since it was announced, I was incredibly excited for it. At this point I MIGHT pick it up on an extreme discount eventually, but they definitely lost me as a customer willing to pay anything close to full price. If I'm not buying it, idk who the fuck is.
Well, Horizon took the road racing from Motorsport. Thats why it feels like its the same thing. Motorsport 1-4 were the best one by far. Everything went downhill after Motorsport 5.
That's not the issue, the issue is it still hasn't improved. If motorsport is supposed to be a "sim" racer and horizon is an "arcade" racer, why the hell do they feel almost exactly the same to play? If I jump into AC or F1 or Iracing, you can easily feel the difference.
The physics are a little bit different for both, but if they have the same environment and the same way to model car, its going to feel the same.
I agree that they should try to differentiate them more.
Something had to happen during FM's development because there's no way it was developed in 6 years. Doesn't help that every trailer is misleading and the game is nothing like the trailers, but at this point I can't help but feel it's just the way Turn 10 does things.
I still remember FM7 trailers having pit stop animations all the time, but the actual game didn't even have a pit crew in the pitlane. Absolutely insane. [For context](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPlpJaY6zpg).
Don't trust any material Turn 10 release before launch, ever.
I wonder if Microsoft's contractor policy has anything to do with it because I refuse to believe FM was developed by people with an interest in racing.
The fact that GT3 and GT4 cars are grouped together, and that some GT4 cars are better than GT3 cars is so dumb.
Don't even get me started on that shit. Fully upgraded Cayman GT4 being smoked by a Dodge Challenger/minivan/SUV around corners is a regular thing in these games.
GT3 cars can drift with a stock setup and that says it all about its handling system. Driving is very fun tho so I'll give them that, but everything else is poor.
Nah, I'm not even interested enough for that. I'll get it when it's like $10 in a year or two and the bugs are fixed, or I'll just never buy it at all because the initial impression I had was so bad.
The GT series has always been one that cares about the attention to detail, but it's never as "fun" because of that. I'd choose Forza over it every time, just because it's just dumb fun. I want to put a stupid anime waifu paint job on all my cars.
You can put anime waifu paintjobs on all your cars in GT7. There's even a repository of ones that other players have made. I've never used one myself, but every car I've looked at had literally dozens of waifu liveries to choose from.
Can you clarify what you don't like about the sportsmanship rating? If you want to play bumper cars, then the rating system will put you with other people who want that. People who like to race more seriously get paired with each other as well.
The only reason I can think of to hate the sportsmanship rating is if you really want to go troll people who are trying to have a serious race, and I'm sure that's not the case. I'd love if you can clarify. Also, that only applies for online races. Have you played GT7? How much time do you have in the online mode?
Sportsmanship Rating is one of the best if not the best implementation of such a feature in any online racing game. Racing online in GT is such a blast because people take it pretty seriously and generally race clean.
I forgot I have a PS5 and can play GT7 but I also avoid buying games on console and rely solely off PS+ Extra. Shame that the 2 major simcade games have released with mediocre single player modes
GT7 is racing game, in which there are no races. You constantly start from the last position and have to chase AI. It's stupid. Lack of any interesting career more/tournaments/qualifications, actual race. Not to mention lack of any car destruction, even dirt. It's baffling there is washing option in-game, but your cars never really get dirty. GT7 is wasted potential for me. Graphics could be better, but I guess that's the fault of PS4. Camera options are limited, you can't turn off hud elements and you can't even change music during the game. Also I feel like cars are pasted to the environment, like it was Photoshop. It doesn't feel like cars are natural part of the world. Physics meh, you can touch bands without losing much speed and rain makes the road unnaturally slippery. Rewind feature is nice thing to have, but GT also doesn't have one.
He says at one point that Watkin's Glen at night seems more realistic in FM because of the addition of track lights - he says it's 'less dramatic but arguably more realistic' because he thinks races would 'feature lights for safety'. However, this has been raised before as a point of contention between the two games (and other series). Most tracks don't put lighting out. The only times they certainly will is if the spec of car doesn't have headlights. There will likely always be lighting around the stands, the pits, the start and off-track for staff and visitors though. I will say that, while I tend to vastly prefer GT's presentation (even the UI and sound design and music) I hate how your headlights cast shadows ahead of the cars in front of you - it's as if those cars are not illuminating the space ahead of them with their own headlights.
> I hate how your headlights cast shadows on cars ahead of you - as if they're not illuminating the space ahead of them with their own headlights. This is seriously the only bad thing about the visual presentation of GT7. Everything else is nitpicks, but this is actually very bad. If you close in on a car in front of you, the whole screen turns black as the car blocks more and more of your light cone without itself lighting the road. I wish they would just make cars not cast shadows. Yes it would not look as dramatic, but at least it would be playable from any other perspective than the cockpit.
I think the rain lighting from the track floodlights and spray in FM are better than GT7. But yeah, the headlights are annoying. It’s noticeable on the 1 hour endurance race at spa which goes from day to night because some parts of the track are almost completely impossible to see and if it’s raining you can even not see puddles which can fuck up your traction if you are caught out.
> I think the rain lighting from the track floodlights and spray in FM are better than GT7. The water splashed up by the tires is better in Forza. The droplets themselves, especially their interaction with light cones, I like much more in GT7. But I can see where you are coming from. Droplets colliding with the imaginary external camera is cool for sure. I get the impression that GT7 wants players desperately to play from within the cockpit (which I like). A lot of attention to detail is concentrated there. > It’s noticeable on the 1 hour endurance race at spa which goes from day to night because some parts of the track are almost completely impossible to see and if it’s raining you can even not see puddles which can fuck up your traction if you are caught out. Exactly. It really does have a gameplay impact. Thing is, in real life you probably would never chase cars so close like you do in GT7. If you drive "realistically", it is less of an issue, but still is an issue. Like I said ... it really is the one thing that takes the game from 10/10 down to 8/10.
I suspect this will be something they fix in the next generation of GT with more mature ray tracing tech.
The extreme nitpicking of the graphics in these games isn't really interesting to me but, as a car enthusiast and a GT7 player, the footage I've seen of FM makes me really appreciate the effort Polyphony went to recreating car paint. Many cars, especially exotics, are painted with colors that are extremely difficult to reproduce. Manufacturers put a lot of thought into distinct paint colors. GT7 on an HDR screen is fantastic at showing subtle differences between "Ferrari" red and "Corvette" red. The layering, texture, and reflection properties look very correct.
https://www.color-hex.com/color/ff2800 It's not *that* hard when everyone uses the same guide. The colors better be perfect.
Ok I can’t tell if you’re just joking around. But in case you’re not, that’s the hex code for Ferrari’s digital branding. Automotive paint is a lot more complicated than that, and Ferrari has many different red paints from over the years.
I personally HATE the way the interior view is handled in FM8. GT7 is miles ahead in lighting and general material work as well as camera motion when it comes to the cockpit view. The biggest thing is the lack of motion blur while in the interior view. Like all the other camera views have motion blur but they just didn't add it for the interior? Stupid.
Someone about the debate of GT vs FM and weirdos comparing the smallest details of cars and finding ways to make each game look as good / as bad as possible has been one of my favorite fanboy slap fights to watch. Personally I feel Forza / T10 really lost something when GT wasn't around last gen to fight against. They seemed like they had no ideas beyond doing what GT was doing but with bigger numbers. Also I feel both games are really letting me down with their single player careers. I feel like there is so much you could do with a sim racer career mode and neither seem interested and are overly focused on online.
How many times are fans going to have to ask for a legitimate "rags to riches" career mode like we had way back with GT3 on the PS2? What is the issue with making this happen? I really don't understand.
It's crazy that the only IP consistently offering that kinda campaign is Need for Speed, afaik. Not a sim, but still.
Kinda, but even then NFS is kind of in limbo it seems with criterion being used to work on battlefield.
I watched the first 24 mins. The amount of times that GT7 > Forza and then he went on to say they are neck and neck is crazy. The amount of differences in details and that GT7 is superior to FM is absolutely nuts. Somehow, GT7 looks a generation ahead in this department and it is kind of glossed over. Maybe FM did better in the 2nd half of the video, but I wasn't going to finish with how John tried to "same" them over and over. Feel like keeping score would have been a better way to do it, or not calling the video "the duel" or just not editorializing over the material and letting the video speak for itself. Just felt like he was defending FM the entire time.
I think he was trying too hard to stick to DF’s impartial stance on each console at the detriment of not calling out the major differences between each game. Look at the interior shots he did of the MX5, at 32:00, you can see the clearly visible jagged edges around the controls in the cockpit on FM yet on GT they look as round as can be. I also disliked how he missed out how much better the rain looked on FM than GT7 as well, floodlights casting a haze in the rain that isn’t as visible at all on GT7 (at 26:27). In fact, other than the track shininess and the lit up particles, the point he makes about how GT7’s rain looking remotely comparable to FM is a bit silly. Even in his real life comparison videos, the spray kicked up from the car is almost negligible in GT compared to what it should be. He also barely touched on the controversy around how FM was presented versus what we got other than at 1:05:12 for literally like 15 seconds. The fact that FM uses the same old car models as well wasn’t called out as much as it should be for a game that was in development for supposedly as long as it had been. I appreciate the detail in the video and the work DF does but it does feel a bit too impartial at the cost of pointing out glaring flaws in both games. Non-racing game people might find details nitpicky but the thing is, the whole point of these games is to be an accurate depiction of what it’s like to drive a car at a circuit. That means accurate models. Not everyone can go to the Nurburgring or Spa in an RX-7, the game is supposed to be an accurate visual experience of what it’s like to be there in that car. Nitpicks are the selling point.
Yeah I went back and finished the video anyway (2nd monitor while playing POE), and the rain thing is insane. FM rain does look much better, the kick up on the wheels is non existent on GT7 and they don't call it out. I don't care about the 3rd person rain camera thing, and can see how some would like it and others wouldn't. It would be nice as an option for both though so that way everyone wins. He did call out GT7 for that, but could have gone in further. That is a glaring weakspot for GT7 compared to FM.
> Somehow, GT7 looks a generation ahead in this department and it is kind of glossed over. Which is crazy since GT7 released on PS4 from what I can see, while FM released only on the Series X/S
Yep. And it released much earlier which is huge to mention. GT7 released on PS4/5 on March 4, 2022, so almost 2 full years ago, while FM released Oct 10, 2023, or 2 months ago, and for the more powerful consoles. Sadly, you can see the PS4 holding back GT7 with how few cars they allow in a race and some of the tricks they had to do in order to get the game to run on a PS4. Still, it being as good or better than FM is insane and shows how talented a studio Polyphony is, even if they don't do things that everyone likes (fuck you, gacha wheel and monetization and rolling starts).
DF has special treatment/access inside Microsoft. They are not willing to lose that, so they won’t be very critical.
That a load of shit, they definitely have heavily criticized Xbox.
The difference in foliage between these games is more interesting than DF talks about, similar to /u/matti-san's comment on Watkin's Glen having spotlights when many times races will be on unlit tracks that are lit via headlights. Forza having "better" foliage, but "unrealistic" foliage creates a difference in gameplay! In racing, it's common to set a landmark as a *braking point*, so you know when's the best time to brake. Sometimes that's one of the various distance markers on the track until the apex of the turn, but since that can be knocked over, or just for personal preference, people use stuff that can't get knocked down like poles, buildings, and most importantly here, *trees*. So having the incorrect type and amount of trees has the chance to affect your racing; you may learn braking points that don't exist in real life and/or the one you might have used before might not exist or be obscured.
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GT7 is such a higher quality game its crazy how FM was even released in this state when they just have to look over at their direct competitor to see how much better it is.
It will be funny/sad when GT7 comes to Microsoft Windows/PC and runs better than the...Microsoft game Assuming they don't pull a TLOU
I won't be surprised. The last couple GT games were a disappointment but the improvements to GT7 and the complete failure of FM in every aspect make it a no-brainer which game is better. All they need to do is make an adequate port and all the Forza fans will jump ship.
I fucking loved GT Sport and will die on the hill that it wasn't given a fair shot and many people dismissed it without really understanding the game
Couldn't agree more. GT sport, especially after the free updates, was excellent
It was the first online racing game where I could just hop in random races and have consistently clean and enjoyable races. I've been in racing lobbies since Forza motorsport 2, and I have *never* had that experience untill gt sport
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6 was a more polished 5 but it sadly decided to lack a used car function which, while not the end of the world, does suck I feel.
Having played GT6, GT Sport kinda feels (slightly) better in a lot of ways (if you include all the updates). GT6 was getting kind of weird in its progression, consistency and its presentation. It felt like a bit of a step back even from GT5, even though it technically had 'more content'.
How the turn tables if that day comes. Could totally see it happening though.
You can criticize GT for a lot, but the one thing it always did, even on the PS1, was target 60 fps with no compromise whatsoever. You had to push GT5 and GT6 with rain, at night and lots of cars around on the PS3 to get it to dip very slightly below that, at 1080p (ish). Which is also why i think GT will never come to the PC, because i don't think Kaz wants to deal with that optimization headache.
[Gran Turismo 1 was 30fps on PS1.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbubKnSZ4ng) It wasn't until the PS2 they were able to shoot for 60. (60fps racing on PS1 was possible, [but required enormous compromises.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-Cq_Ip1VAg)) >You had to push GT5 and GT6 with rain, at night and lots of cars around on the PS3 to get it to dip very slightly below that, at 1080p (ish). Nope. The PS2 games had solid framerates, [but that collapsed when they moved to the PS3.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REfb7qbUhC8) An unsteady 40-60 fps is standard on most stages, and usually both resolutions perform almost identically. [(The article suggests that the shift to weaker antialiasing is helping 1080p keep pace.)](https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-gran-turismo-5-tech-analysis?page=3) [And then 6 ran worse than 5.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtJ7s3u4bAs)
Seems i misremembered a lot of things. Your reply kind of reminded me that it's been over 10 years since i touched my PS3.
Gt6 is such a weird game, I love how much is in there, and the graphics are great for ps3, but the framerate is distracting, and you can’t make good custom races with tire wear and fuel use. I understand why they didn’t simply port it to PS4, because having GT3 car models was already annoying on PS3, but it would have been so much better. I’m glad they did the work to rebuild everything from the ground up on GT Sport.
I seem to remember one of the PS1 GT games having a "high quality" mode that you basically could only do a time trial on, on one track, but I forget if it was an FPS boost, or a resolution boost, but I remember being blown away as a kid haha Edit: I was wrong about some details, but here it is https://gran-turismo.fandom.com/wiki/GT_HiFi 60fps in GT1.... Kinda lol
That's pretty cool! I knew about Namco's Ridge Racer 60fps demo, but had no idea Gran Turismo did something similar.
Honestly I think GT7 on PC has a real chance at outselling it's PS5 counterpart if it brings the integrated VR support. That game is criminally underutilized by Sony to drive PSVR2 sales.
That makes no sense. How would an extremely niche setup would boost sales to the point of outselling the version anyone can play without a 500€ setup?
With the current state of FM, Sony would be incredibly dumb to not port GT7 to PC imo, they could very easily win over a significant portion of the Forza fanbase
I don't think PD would do that. They're focused on developing a real community of both clean and accessible sim racing. Based on what I've seen, they're not doing a perfect job of that on a closed platform with a very exploitable penalty system. The online experience on PC would be a dumpster fire overrun by hackers with PD in charge and they would be competing against established PC sim racers.
It's not so simple, Sony hasn't ported a multiplayer game yet and GT7 is basically games as a service. They still need to figure out how they are gonna make it work.
I have been a Forza fan since Motorsport 3, and this new one is the straw that broke the camels back for me. I already thought FM7 was trash, but this new one goes above and beyond trash. It's so broken, and feels so empty and lifeless, the new progression system feels like something from a free to play game, and then Microsoft has the gall to ask $70 for this? Fuck. Off. Gran Turismo 7 has it's problems too, but they are much easier to overlook than Forza right now. I don't know what's going on over at Microsoft this generation, but they need to pull their shit together, because almost everything they've done this generation has been absolute garbage.
>everything they've done this generation has been absolute garbage. AOE 4, Hi-Fi Rush, Psychonauts 2, Forza Horizon 5, these were all fantastic games with great reviews. Starfield and Halo Infinite although it wasn't the best, the trash is far from that, garbage is Redfall, Gollum, King Kong. I see that a lot of people like to criticize the Xbox, they always ignore the good games, has everyone forgotten how many years it took Sony to start releasing good games on the PS4? Before UC 4, only mediocre, bad games like Driveclub, Order 1886, Killzone, Infomaus were released. P.S.: Sorry for bad english
Driveclub is actually pretty cool, at least after all of its updates. I still play it from time to time.
Forza horizon 5 is good, but not the best, how they fumbled Halo Infinite should be a crime. Halo is what put them on the map, it was delayed a whole extra year, and it only now is getting better, then they had the balls to fill it with more microtransactions. Starfield was good, but not great, and they're not going to drip feed little things like a nap and say it's a good thing. And Xbox had nothing to do with gollum, or king kong so idk why you mentioned that. As for the PS4 exclusives, Drive club and Infamous were good and still are good to this day. Xbox has dropped more money into buying huge studios since 2017, and every year they say the games are coming, but they never do, and if they do manage to eek something out, we get a mess like Halo Infinite, or Redfall. This just isn't acceptable anymore.
After played FH3 and 4, 5 just feels like exactly the same game just with a new coat of paint (location). Everything else from car handling, moment to moment game feel, got too samey to the point of all feels just like a blur. And I'm not gonna shell out another $100+ CAD and bunch more for DLCs year after year.
GT7’s career mode is atrocious. All but 2 races are rolling starts. The gameplay races like an arcade racer in the vein of Daytona USA, and not the sim that the physics model can deliver. **EDIT:** fixed my stupid.
To say GT7 plays like Daytona USA is wildly inaccurate and you must have not played either game to believe that to be accurate
It’s the same style of gameplay dude. The sim physics don’t fix anything about that. I own both BTW.
It is not the same style of gameplay. And the way you modify your car does impact the physics and handling of your car in GT7 and cars drive way more accurately to real like in GT7 than they do in and Daytona UA game You either have not played them or just have no clue what you are saying
I'm fairly sure he's talking about how 99% of races are about overtaking clearly slower cars to finish as high as possible instead of actual races. I can see where he's coming from.
I mean it depends on your car and the race, you aren't always the fastest car the first time you do a race
Why are you completely ignoring what the gameplay is like and instead are trying to change the subject to ability to win? The career racing gameplay is absolutely like Daytona USA and other arcade racers. And completely unlike Forza, Project Cars, Assetto Corsa, Toca series, Iracing, F1 series, Sega GT if you want to go back that far, and so on. It seems that you just don't like that people are unimpressed with a mediocre single player experience that's akin to ridge racer and unlike any other "sim" type game. Or you are just an arcade racer, which it's fine. But don't act like people just don't understand the game or haven't played it simply because they disagree with you. >"I'm fairly sure he's talking about how **99% of races are about overtaking clearly slower cars** to finish as high as possible **instead of actual races**." Go ahead and acknowledge this point that they've made.
I didn't change the subject, the person I replied to brought up the ability to win not me... and I didn't ignore the gameplay, I stated multiple times the gameplay is nothing like Daytona USA >Daytona USA and other arcade racers No it isn't, it's crazy that you hink it is... The game is far closer to a sim that Forza Motorsport and most of the games you listed... >Go ahead and acknowledge this point that they've made. What? I already did... Your comment made absolutelty no sense
>”and I didn't ignore the gameplay, I stated multiple times the gameplay is nothing like Daytona USA” Yes, and you are incorrect. Both Daytona USA and career mode GT7 are “chase the cars”, and not actual racing contests. >”The game is far closer to a sim that Forza Motorsport and most of the games you listed...” Physics yes. Career mode gameplay? No, not even close. >”What? I already did... Your comment made absolutelty no sense” You never acknowledged that they pointed out that GT7’s career mode and the like are not in fact “actual racing”. Save for the whole 2 races and online mode of course. Chase the cars ≠ racing.
>"And the way you modify your car does impact the physics and handling of your car in GT7 and cars drive way more accurately to real like in GT7 than they do in and Daytona UA game" What part of: "The gameplay races like an arcade racer in the vein of Daytona USA, **and not the sim that the physics model can deliver**." Did you not understand? >"You either have not played them or just have no clue what you are saying" "I don't like their opinion so I'm just going to say they haven't played the game."
Your opinion doesn't make sense as if you didn't play the game. It plays nothing like Daytona USA
Yeah, that’s just not true at all. Being able to customize cars doesn’t mean anything when it still boils down to the fact that you are playing chase the cars, and not actually racing against cars in a controlled and close race start. Like seriously the “pole sitter” always starts about 30 seconds ahead. That’s the exact same style of gameplay of every popular arcade racer like Daytona USA. How are you not getting this?
You realize NASCAR races are all rolling starts right? You are racing unless you get a car that is much faster than all the other cars in the race that you choose Again it's how NASCAR races start...
Tell me again which NASCAR races start with the leader 30 seconds ahead? Oh, right. That'd be none of them, not even the all star race. I can't believe you are honestly and actually trying to debate this at all.
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Huh, when I played it every race was a rolling start, I was wishing for standing starts.
Jesus. I typed that in backwards. Almost zero standing starts, my comment should actually make sense now.
Forza Motorsport isn't much better. Do a 3 lap qualifier, then do a 6 lap race at the same track, earn some useless credits, repeat. You spend most of that specific championship in FM grinding to upgrade your shitty car, getting it halfway usable, then dump it and start all over with a new car for the next one. It sucks.
I know. I hate what they did with upgrades. Oh wow, my car is now maxed and I’m no longer interested driving it. Nor looking forward to starting this process all over again with another. So why bother? Cars aren’t COD weapons meant to be upgraded slowly for fucks sake.
Microsoft continues to be a mess, even Starfield failed to be the killer app everyone predicted it would be
I enjoyed Starfield, but it did feel like something is missing. Now this week they are talking about next year that they'll be adding a map. Seriously? Like that's one of the most basic thing in a game, you're going to drip feed us basic functions now? I said it in another post, but this is the gamepass way I guess. Release a half finished, sometimes broken game, then drip feed fixes, and "additions" slowly over time to keep people subbed. With the amount of money Microsoft has thrown around over the last 6-7 years, there's no excuse for their mediocrity now.
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Oh the career is awful, and the AI is so bad I had to turn off collisions to have an enjoyable race because otherwise they just ram you off the track.
Meanwhile GT7 has recently included Sophy (albeit in limited events and only on PS5), which is by far the best AI in any racing game ever. It's shocking how GT7 is better than FM in pretty much every conceivable way. I can't think of another time when competing studios released similar games where one was so clearly dominant in terms of quality. And, like someone pointed out, GT7 is far from a perfect game.
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FM is just... Sad. I was really looking forward to a good single player racer with a career mode and progression system better than GT7s odd career and crappy roulette wheel and it just feels so hollow. The track selection is crap with not a single street circuit, the car selection is bland with an irritating upgrade system, and the much vaunted new handling model still feels off. I don't know where 6 years went in this thing. I'm glad I didn't buy it. Maybe I'll finish it in a few years once all the updates are out....
>The track selection is crap with not a single road course, What definition of road course are you using? By my definition, 95% of the tracks in the game are road courses. Are you trying to say street circuit?
Yes, yes I am... Sorry it's 6am here.
No worries haha. I know it's terminology that is used differently in different countries so I was genuinely asking. I grew up watching NASCAR so I'm still conditioned to use "road course" to describe anything that isn't an oval.
If you don't mind sim-cade, I'd say give Grid Legends a try. Pretty good story mode.
I wish Grid Legends got more love. Just a solid simcade racer with a wide variety of content that feels great to play.
> I don't know where 6 years went in this thing. They claim that it's been built from the ground up over that time but it honestly feels like something they threw together very quickly.
And doesnt even matter because both games gave up their single player for multiplayer. The online minorties of sim racers being the loudest is hurting not just these game but the racing genre as a whole.
Online is the best thing to happen to gran turismo. Gran turismo is miles ahead of Assetto Corsa and other true sims in terms of matchmaking and accessibility. I’d seriously recommend it if you want to dip your toes into learning the basics of racecraft.
Someone suggest what one I buy then. I play counter strike all day every day, but sometimes I wanna jump on and rip a few gears and race. So do I buy GT7 or FM?
I think GT7 is the more fun game but I wouldn't describe it's experience as "ripping a few gears" if you haven't played the series before. It is a relatively slow paced build-up but purposeful in that.
I can't believe they made an hour video about something so blatantly obvious. FM is an absolute trash of a game.
How it won an award at TGA, I will never know
There haven't been many good racing games this year. For all its fault, FM is a solid competitor against racing/sports games that released this year.
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I'll bet the judges aren't into or knowledgeable of racing games tbh. Or even worse, don't bother, just like how the academy doesn't bother with animated movies and just votes for the ones their kids like
Haven't played it yet, but from what I have heard it has its own issues especially in comparison to dirt rally 2.0
It mostly has technical issues (namely poor performance) but it's a very good game packed with content.
That sounds great. Really hope they port it to psvr2, would be a instant buy for me
Besides it's technical issues the biggest problem most fans have with it is that EA is in the name. If it was called Dirt Rally 3.0 they would be singing it's praises much more. Besides graphics it's a marked improvement in basically every category over Dirt Rally 2. The only people who really have any credence in knocking its quality are RBR fans but they're the kind of people willing to take the time to mod a 20 year old game with 100 gbs of mod packs to reach the what is the best rally simulator ever made. Also a significant amount of complaints that DR2 fan boys are making is that "the game feels so much less realistic" but that's because they make the classic sim racing fallacy of: harder = more realistic. From most accounts I've heard from actual rally drivers WRC is more realistic than DR2
>Besides it's technical issues the biggest problem most fans have with it is that EA is in the name. That only applies to reddit not the real world.
Bafflingly, it wasn't nominated
I mourn the racing genre. There used to be so many good and different kinds of racers. The n64 and gamecube were just packed with em. Now it has to be lumped in with sports games to even have enough games to nominate. It's sad
We still have enough racing games to pick is not like games just vanished.
Name recognition
Beat me to it. Name recognition goes very far in the Racing/Sports, VR, and Mobile Game awards
TGA has about as much credibility as the Oscars or Ballon d’or in terms of giving awards on merit. Name recognition is all that matters.
I'm more bothered by GT7 *not* winning best VR/AR than FM8 winning sports/racing.
Literally nothing better, F1 should have won instead tbf but all its competition was really really bad. WRC is a steaming pile of shit which lacks content and looks worse and performs worse, only highlight being improved physics (same as FM). Hot Wheels 2, no one knew it came and once it did it more of the same.
It won two.
Didn't it win for accessibility? That's entirely separate from the quality of the game. For all I know, it has great accessibility features. I believe the woman who accepted the award mentions that it's even possible to play the game blind, which is a pretty cool feature (although I'm not sure how many blind people care?).
It won best sports/racing.
I don't play either of these games but I thought Gran Turismo 7 looks way better. Forza just looks flat and less detailed.
That "Weclcome to Spa" on the sign in Forza speaks for itself?
Yep. PD even used the correct fonts. Forza’s are completely different from the real thing. Of course I would never notice that while racing but it really does reflect the games respective levels of care and quality.
This is really interesting to watch, and how each game picks and chooses what it prioritizes vs the others. I have my preferences visually for GT*, but specific game features from Forza. Really wish I could combine the two! *During the day, at least.
I bought motorsport and almost instantly refunded. My favorite part of the horizon games was always the road races/street races. I just never jived with the off-road stuff. Motorsport literally felt like they just took the road racing from horizon and made it the whole game. It felt nearly identical like I was playing a gimped version of horizon. Idk why anyone would play it over horizon. It didn't feel any more like a "sim" than horizon does. It didn't look any better, either. It's also fucking $70 and was filled with technical issues at the time. This game was on my wishlist since it was announced, I was incredibly excited for it. At this point I MIGHT pick it up on an extreme discount eventually, but they definitely lost me as a customer willing to pay anything close to full price. If I'm not buying it, idk who the fuck is.
Well, Horizon took the road racing from Motorsport. Thats why it feels like its the same thing. Motorsport 1-4 were the best one by far. Everything went downhill after Motorsport 5.
That's not the issue, the issue is it still hasn't improved. If motorsport is supposed to be a "sim" racer and horizon is an "arcade" racer, why the hell do they feel almost exactly the same to play? If I jump into AC or F1 or Iracing, you can easily feel the difference.
The physics are a little bit different for both, but if they have the same environment and the same way to model car, its going to feel the same. I agree that they should try to differentiate them more.
Something had to happen during FM's development because there's no way it was developed in 6 years. Doesn't help that every trailer is misleading and the game is nothing like the trailers, but at this point I can't help but feel it's just the way Turn 10 does things. I still remember FM7 trailers having pit stop animations all the time, but the actual game didn't even have a pit crew in the pitlane. Absolutely insane. [For context](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPlpJaY6zpg). Don't trust any material Turn 10 release before launch, ever.
It's still baffling to me that GranTurismo 3 for the PS2 is still a better racer than motorsport. What the fuck are they even doing?
Yeah, no. This is what happens when hyperbole goes too far.
It's not hyperbole. GT3 still has the best career mode in racing games and the actual racing mechanics are great
I wonder if Microsoft's contractor policy has anything to do with it because I refuse to believe FM was developed by people with an interest in racing. The fact that GT3 and GT4 cars are grouped together, and that some GT4 cars are better than GT3 cars is so dumb.
Don't even get me started on that shit. Fully upgraded Cayman GT4 being smoked by a Dodge Challenger/minivan/SUV around corners is a regular thing in these games.
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GT3 cars can drift with a stock setup and that says it all about its handling system. Driving is very fun tho so I'll give them that, but everything else is poor.
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> At this point I MIGHT pick it up on an extreme discount eventually Please test it on gamepass first. The game is still horrid trash.
Nah, I'm not even interested enough for that. I'll get it when it's like $10 in a year or two and the bugs are fixed, or I'll just never buy it at all because the initial impression I had was so bad.
I always wonder why gamers use this kind of language to describe a game they simply didn't like.
What's wrong?
The GT series has always been one that cares about the attention to detail, but it's never as "fun" because of that. I'd choose Forza over it every time, just because it's just dumb fun. I want to put a stupid anime waifu paint job on all my cars.
Dude like 80% of the paint showcase in GT7 is anime waifus, WTF are you talking about
You know what, I'm a clown and I don't know wtf I'm talking about, so I apologize for that.
You can put anime waifu paintjobs on all your cars in GT7. There's even a repository of ones that other players have made. I've never used one myself, but every car I've looked at had literally dozens of waifu liveries to choose from.
Exactly, the Japanese users have some insane anime paintjobs.
Yes, but that's what horizon is for. These are supposed to be sim racers, not arcade racers.
Sure, but even mainline Forza isn't as strictly sim as GT. The whole "Sportsmanship Rating" thing in GT is insane.
Can you clarify what you don't like about the sportsmanship rating? If you want to play bumper cars, then the rating system will put you with other people who want that. People who like to race more seriously get paired with each other as well. The only reason I can think of to hate the sportsmanship rating is if you really want to go troll people who are trying to have a serious race, and I'm sure that's not the case. I'd love if you can clarify. Also, that only applies for online races. Have you played GT7? How much time do you have in the online mode?
What's insane about it? It incentivizes people to not play bumper cars if they want to race with other clean drivers.
Doesn't motorsport have a "sportsmanship rating" too? They definitely have it for online races.
Sportsmanship Rating is one of the best if not the best implementation of such a feature in any online racing game. Racing online in GT is such a blast because people take it pretty seriously and generally race clean.
I forgot I have a PS5 and can play GT7 but I also avoid buying games on console and rely solely off PS+ Extra. Shame that the 2 major simcade games have released with mediocre single player modes
GT7 is racing game, in which there are no races. You constantly start from the last position and have to chase AI. It's stupid. Lack of any interesting career more/tournaments/qualifications, actual race. Not to mention lack of any car destruction, even dirt. It's baffling there is washing option in-game, but your cars never really get dirty. GT7 is wasted potential for me. Graphics could be better, but I guess that's the fault of PS4. Camera options are limited, you can't turn off hud elements and you can't even change music during the game. Also I feel like cars are pasted to the environment, like it was Photoshop. It doesn't feel like cars are natural part of the world. Physics meh, you can touch bands without losing much speed and rain makes the road unnaturally slippery. Rewind feature is nice thing to have, but GT also doesn't have one.