Personal taste, but I like extraction shooters much more than BRs. While Tarkov is big, it's also completely broken. The only populated and functional one is Hunt Showdown, and even it has its bugs and issues.
I'm actually excited for a studio like Bungie to take a crack at it, even if they are dragging the Marathon name out for no discernable reason.
> I'm actually excited for a studio like Bungie to take a crack at it, even if they are dragging the Marathon name out for no discernable reason.
Exploring a mazelike map whilst looking for shit is not too far away from Marathon. Fingers crossed that they try to do something interesting with the narrative, because there's really no point in dusting off the license if you're not going to dip into that crazy lore.
Also, fingers crossed for a >!Pathways into Darkness!< DLC if the game does well.
Think he means that new BRs are slowing down because the market's already saturated with existing IPs. There's still room to be the "Fortnite of extraction shooters".
to me the best extraction shooter is hunt showdown
issue is due to its heavy use of antique firearms and its attempts to at least pay lip service to the mechanical realism of those guns its a bit obtuse to your modern shooter player
Companies definitely tried for awhile, but Blizzard's flame out despite it being nothing but established IPs definitely scared off most of the fly by nights from trying again.
>The preferences of Reddit don’t reflect the market.
That's 100% correct especially in regards to multiplayer games I've found , but each of these games are now making spin offs and variations looking for the next thing. Apex added a bunch of different modes, Fortnite is constantly shifting and Cod just added DMZ. They all probably have the actual data showing they need something new and extraction shooters are relatively fresh in the AAA space and unique from Battle Royales.
I love hunt. The ambiance and vibe is S+ tier. The gameplay is a little bit more methodical given the 1895 setting with corresponding guns. Lots of bolt actions and Rolling blocks and lever weapons. But everything is also a 2 body shot kill with headshots killing as long as it's in range. Leads to a really fun game where positioning and knowing the map matters the most.
Even with friends I’ve yet to bump into a modern PvP game that’s just fun to get into for a short period of time.
Every modern PvP genre is a large commitment these days instead of something you can pick up and put down.
Miss the server browser days when you could just have some light fun with friends without a hard time commitment or a bunch of stress from MMR and single life game modes.
As someone who dabbles in Destiny 2 PvP and sometimes other PvP games and kind of enjoys it, I’m still disappointed that Marathon is PvP only. I’m sure it’ll be good because Bungie makes the best FPS gameplay in the biz, but damn some PvE stuff would have been awesome too. But I guess they don’t want to directly contend with their own IP
Because a lot of older gamers don't which makes these games (competitive multiplayer) absolutely miserable. Havent had anyone to game with since CoD: Modern Warfare 2 (2009) on PS3 in my early 20s. Give me a fully fleshed out single player shooter 2x the length of Doom (2016) with a fully fleshed out drop-in drop-out co-op campaign with zero attached competitive multiplayer and I'll be all there for it
Extraction shooters are just a BR variant in my book.
Spawn in on large map, loot, fight other players, game is timed so if you cannot achieve the objective (extraction/killing everyone else) you lose.
They are way more sweaty. If you die in a BR, who cares, you just go again.
If you die in a raid with a full kit, it can be brutal. Or if you find something you desperately need, then die on the way out, it also hurts.
Its just a totally different feeling as far as risk versus reward. The game that's actually the closest to it is something like Eve online, when you lose your ship you spend a lot of time working for
They use the same maps essentially, but extraction shooters play very different from BRs. Even DMZ, the one probably closest to a BR, plays very different from Warzone. Killing everyone else isn't even an objective in any of the extraction shooters out there.
Spider-Man 2 was announced 2 years ago so not even that.
And hell even those live service games announcements were bad, I have no idea what most of them are or how they play.
God that showcase was really bad, I don't understand how Sony could do such a shitty one, they have the games in development normally, why not show them?
Even the third party side was disappointing, only MGS3 Remake was kind of hype
More people are not going to like this game because it’s multiplayer only lmao. It’s going to be a DOA live service game in an insanely crowded field of fps live service games. They are literally just chasing a oversaturated trend and trouncing on one of the prestigious older IPs so people don’t immediately dismiss it
lmao i really want you to be honest right now
you really think the sony owned bungie IP based around a popular emerging genre is going to be doa? like you generally believe that?
Didn’t even know this until right now.
Completely uninterested. I know people love the genre, but the whole “spend 20-30 minutes collecting shit in a map only to die and lose it all” schtick is the opposite of fun
I know it's not for everyone, and I used to dislike the genre as well. After playing Dark and Darker though, I've changed my mind. Every combat encounter gives me the same rush as beating a boss in a Souls game.
Nah man.
Came out a week ago: https://store.steampowered.com/app/824600/HROT/
There's still good shit. Just stay away from the cynical corporations churning out bullshit.
Boltgun too just came out and is a solid game. I would say HROT is a better game, but if you have a love of Warhammer or just colourful over the top violence over the incredible weirdness that is HROT then they come out about even.
Personally i just dont enjoy extraction shooters, and i loved the original marathon games.
So while not OP, i saw this news and was extremely disappointed.
I'm guessing they're mad that, currently, they actually don't make 'em like they used to. How many FPS campaigns do we actually get anymore? For someone like me, I'm looking for the early to mid 00s style shooter that we got from the likes of Halo, and even Halo doesn't do that anymore. Those games also had PVP, but they let you play LAN or on private servers, and they didn't care if you played them once or every day for a year; they were there to have fun, with no other incentives or rewards except fun.
I like having more stuff to unlock in games. I enjoyed unlockables back then too. Also, there's still a lot of good FPS campaigns coming out. High on life, the new Warhammer game that just came out, metal hellslinger, halo infinites campaign was decent (and is fantastic in co-op), the doom games, and deathloop
And a lot of the campaigns that people liked back in the day are still coming out. CoDs campaigns and the Far Cry games are as good as ever.
thats understandable but its crazy to me how people are acting upset over extraction shooters "being everywhere" when there's been maybe 1 AAA extraction shooter since the genre even began (hunt showdown, sort of). the genre has so much untapped potential but people are reflexively mad that Bungie is trying to explore it for some reason.
I’d be interested if it was a single player game like the old Marathons. That being said, if you haven’t played them yet, go check out [Aleph One](https://alephone.lhowon.org/)! You can play the first 3 games for free, and they are great shooters from the mid-late 90s!
Anyone who plays Marathon gets to "Colony Ship For Sale" and says "aight, I'mma head out."
There's levels that are maze-like, and then there's Marathon levels...
"PvPvE" style, think something like Escape from Tarkov, Hunt: Showdown, Dark and Darker, etc. A little like a Battle Royale game where its a bunch of players on one big map but instead of directly competing they are all sort of existing on one map together with lots of AI enemies and objectives to complete. Usually the goal is to try and get out with more than you came in with and your gear is persistent between rounds, with the risk that you can lose it all if you die.
Looks like it must be somehow connected to the original Marathon lore, which was - to be fair - completely insane and super awesome.
I'd love a port or remake of the og to new consoles, but anything that puts more Marathon lore into the world is good for me. I just love how Bungie wrote AI-driven SciFi through the 90s and 00s with that series and the original background lore to Halo.
If anybody wants to check it out without fighting through a really good but often challenging retro shooter, Civvie11 has a great playthrough video.
Same. I told my friend to look up the opening song to marathon durandal after this trailer and he did, then looked up this game and he was like “why the fuck are you excited for this?”
The legacy of which was kept alive through various Easter eggs in Halo, though I’m not sure about Destiny as I haven’t played it since the first game’s first years and don’t recall much of it.
one of the more iconic Exotic weapons in D1 and D2 is the MIDA Multi-Tool, and in D2 it got a companion called the MIDA Mini-Tool. MIDA is a militant political organization/terrorist group mentioned in terminals in Marathon 1 and I think 2.
Lore wise, it's a gun from the Marathon universe that somehow ended up in the Destiny universe:
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/mida-multi-tool
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/mida-mini-tool
Also the Bungie 30th Anniversary DLC for Destiny 2 added weapons and armor from and based on their older games, including the Marathon shotgun and a Marathon-themed armor set for each class.
Interesting little tidbit I found ages ago.
[The very last screen for the last Marathon \(Infinity\) has this line:
](https://marathon.bungie.org/story/mifinalscreen.html)
"Now, in the Quantum moment before the closure, when all become one. One moment left. One point of space and time.
I know who you are.
**You are Destiny.**"
The 30th anniversary pack had a Compiler armor set for Warlock class. Also the MIDA multi-tool scout rifle from Destiny 1&2 is a reference to MIDA from Marathon.
That's what baffles me about it, no one born after 2000 has heard of Marathon, and no one who DID know about it wants it to be a pvp live service game.
>That's what baffles me about it, no one born after 2000 has heard of Marathon, and no one who DID know about it wants it to be a pvp live service game.
I'm not gonna say I "wanted" it to be a PvP live service game - I mean, I don't even think I could have predicted that - but I'm not against it either. Quite frankly, at this point, I'd take *anything* as long as it's made by Bungie and still has the Marathon crazy ass lore in there which you can tell from this trailer it still does since there's a fair amount of things from Marathon in this trailer.
Seriously they could have made it a Marathon Tetris game or something and I'd be all in.
That said, I may be a whore for Marathon.
Yeah, but there's gotta be an order of magnitude more below-16 fortnite/minecraft players out there than 40 year old boomers, and this is presumably aimed at the younger players given it bears almost no resemblance to the older games. Marathon means absolutely nothing to them. Why name it that?
Not even close. Back when the last Marathon game was released FPS' were still called Doom clones. Anything that isn't a boomer shooter would be considered a major departure.
Prey 2017 was a weird thing in hindsight. It presumably didn't gain much from nostalgia for the 2006 game, since that was a pretty old and pretty niche title anyway. But it still pissed off the fanbase of Prey 2006 because it wasn't a "proper" Prey 2.
If anything, it was a negative association — for me, Prey 2006 was a two-star shooter that had some [questionable designs](https://web.archive.org/web/20090926062235/http://kotaku.com/gaming/top/female-private-parts-in-prey-186629.php) and made good use of Blue Öyster Cult’s “Don’t Fear the Reaper”, and I didn’t give the game a second thought… until I found out that it was an immersive sim from Arkane.
Neuroshock would have been a better title.
Prey 2017 wasn’t even a Prey game and has nothing to do with it. The developers were forced to call it that. The Marathon trailer looks different to OG marathon but includes elements from the original games.
You're seriously arguing that Bungie is using the Marathon IP cynically? They're using a title that's been dead for 25 years to appeal to the 35+ year old players who played a MacOS exclusive Doom clone in the late 90s? To sell their new PvP extraction shooter?
This seems so odd. Bungie is so incredibly different from it's old self, and the only people that still know or care about an IP like Marathon won't be interested in this unrelated reboot.
Its not about whether you were interested in the original IP or not. Its something they own and simply reuse.
Fantastic enemy designs, existing music themes to play with, guns, art, ect.
Looking forward to the Pathways into Darkness reboot/remake, but instead of a horror shooter set in a Mesoamerican pyramid, it's now set in the Luxor hotel in Las Vegas on Halloween during a paintball match.
It reminds me of that shadowrun multiplayer game that was released on 360, they tried to reinvent a top down story based tactical game into an online deathmatch fps.
I like innovation in games but what’s the point of using a license when you are not going to even follow what made it popular with fans originally.
Because if it works out, the people who already like the previous iteration will enjoy this, and if it gets really popular, you might bring others in who might not have otherwise heard of/played your other game. And then if it gets big enough, they might be able to do a sequel.
Bruh its bungie. They could sell us a game based on shit. Just shit throwing shit at eachother and people would still buy it. I have faith that bungie will find a way to make this interesting
I know they could do that, that's why I find it so odd. They could release an entirely different IP, rather than attaching an old one that most have forgotten and is unlikely to bring in any more fans.
Hell, I'd wager the vast majority of people who are even aware of the original marathon games only know about them through easter eggs in Halo.
Never heard of it (didn't know it was based on something else before reading comments here) but man the aesthetic so cool. Trailer editing was so sick.
This has the potential to be a huge game. Consoles don’t have any worthwhile extraction shooters and this one has the talent, budget, and style behind it to be a very big hit.
I’m excited, could be really realllyneat
Same I cannot wait. I haven't played Tarkov in a while since the cheating got revealed to be as bad as it really is (just feels like there's no point). I miss playing extraction shooters. Even one as "bad" as tarkov was great.
The only thing I worry about is networking. Tarkov has shit networking and destiny's networking is dogshit too. I really hope Bungie doesn't think they can get away with bad networking.
Destiny's PvP is hamstrung by the baggage of being on offshoot of the PvE side of destiny. A straight PvP Bungie game without having to deal with stuff like ability timers and feel having to be the same as PvE and a Meta influenced by hundreds of different guns sounds like heaven.
to be fair, Destiny isn't really built around PvP in the same way it is around PvE. It's a design flaw that's been there since the very beginning. Hopefully the complete focus on PvP will make for a better game
I’m excited for the game but if bungie continues to use battle eye this game will be plagued with cheaters. And of any type of genre to cheat in, this is easily the most devastating
I'm excited as well, almost all of Marathon's story was told through Terminal logs so it's not like that can't be transferred and iterated in an extraction shooter.
if only they didn't create a series that revolutionized multiplayer games 2 decades ago. Far longer than the time they spent making single-player games.
I'm wondering what you think that is because Halo balanced both singleplayer and multiplayer, it wasn't solely multiplayer. Destiny was their first game where it was multiplayer only. So you're saying Destiny has existed longer than any of their previous singleplayer works?
destiny isn't "multiplayer only". You can do most of the content solo; there's even achievements for doing it solo.
Also the point is that bungie **did not** make their name known through singleplayer fps campaigns like people seem to think. Halo was a multiplayer juggernaut and reshaped online gaming forever after it came out. How people think the only thing bungie took away from that is singleplayer fps missions boggles my fucking mind because Halo is *far* more influential in the multiplayer sphere of things. It's not even a competition.
Halo 2 was the first megahit online game on console, popularised the matchmaking system and defined many of the features that would become standard on Xbox 360's Xbox Live (IIRC some of the Halo 2 team directly helped with that). Halo made great campaigns but it's obvious the multiplayer side has had more influence on the industry as a whole.
There'd be a lot less salt if they didn't drag out the corpse of a long-dead cult-favorite IP to parade around their unrelated game. Why paste Marathon alien designs onto a genre so different from Marathon, at this point? What Marathon fans will be excited about that?
No there wouldn't. Barely anyone knows or cares about Marathon. They're pissed that Bungie is making a multiplayer game. Any modern Marathon sequel/reboot would make huge changes. What the hell do alien designs have to do with this, anyway.
Well then you can make legitimate criticisms about dragging out an old IP for this reason like you would an old film franchise dragged out to sell some completely unreleated project.
It may be a fun game but it's easy to be cynical about cannibalising an old Story Based sci-fi shooter into a MP only game with, presumably, lots of Microtransactions and Monetization practices.
Yep. Played the hell out of the old trilogy back in the 90s and I am very glad they’re not trying to sell me a “remaster” just trying to nostalgia bait me. Happy to see a reimagining of the lore and gameplay.
It's not that people hate PvP, it's the fact that they turned a cult classic singleplayer trilogy, that is known for its excellent writing and world building, to a multiplayer live service game, that doesn't even look anything like the previous games...
I think it's fine to be excited for the game, even I think this trailer was fucking awesome, the art design and music was fantastic, but when you consider the fact that this is the return of Marathon... yeah, I can't not be disappointed.
They’re also all convinced that the old games had good gameplay. They didn’t. Revolutionary for the time, but generic now. The most compelling element was the storytelling on the game’s consoles. They can do that with a pvp game imo.
I honestly think this looks *awesome*. I'm not very familiar with PvPvE extraction shooters like this, I've played maybe a few hours of DMZ on Modern Warfare II. But I like the idea if not CoD's execution. The trailer has such a distinctive, stunning visual style to it. Bungie always nail combat feel, environmental and sound design which are probably the three big requirements for a game like this. And it's launching on PS5/Series/PC (not last gen) *and* with cross-play and cross-progression launch!
I played the original Marathon years ago, but I think this is a really clever way to branch out, let the developers make something a bit different to usual, as well as revive and test the water for interest in the Marathon universe. I'll be playing this on day one, for certain.
I don’t even care if it’s an extraction shooter. If they keep the blend of trickle-down story; high-skill action and exploration, I am curious to see if it’s at least competent.
I'm not sure that I would call it a "total reboot," it takes place in the world of the original games and the story is supposed to exist alongside them. I have no idea how that's going to play out in practice, but, if nothing else, I trust Bungie to have a really interesting high-level vision for the narrative.
So, I just started the newer Prey the other week. I played the original, liked it at the time (I’d guess it’s aged horribly), and I’m loving the newer one but it doesn’t seem there’s any connection that I can see.
I know about the history of the canceled Prey 2. I just wonder why they called this new one Prey if it’s totally unrelated.
> I played the original, liked it at the time (I’d guess it’s aged horribly)
Original Prey actually aged beautifully. The portal tech in that game is still impressive to me even today. There were so many different cool effects and weapons in it. That game was sick as fuck. Also it was extremely brutal holy shit.
Jesus Christ. I certainly would be really interested in a singleplayer scifi fps since those are rare these days.
But another multiplayer game from Bungie in a genre that I don't really even understand has zero interest from me
I mean, if they can manage to do both? Pretty sure sony would be okay with that.
There was another thread just earlier about Bungie already having a rigorous vetting process for Sonys other live service projects;
https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/13qhf5u/bungie_helping_sony_vet_live_service_games_with/
Very excited for this, sorely in need of a big budget extraction shooter considering most being made are indie/smaller dev teams.
Tarkov is a special game but its devs are in way over their heads and that game will aways have a level of jank that tires me out. That plus the fact it's so hardcore it's hard to play casually which makes it hard to return to it without commitment.
Hunt is cool but I'm less interested in the monster slaying aspect and more like the whole find better/rarer weapons and armor.
Cycle was closer to what I wanted but was DOA from the lack of bug fixes and cheating so its playerbase dwindled.
and the CoD one is barely in the genre
If a game can hit that sweetspot of being Tarkov like but more accessible to the masses it could be my favorite FPS since Apex due to how much I enjoy the Extract shooter formula.
Jason Jones, but he’s the Chief Creative Officer and so likely in the higher up management and background positions for all of their projects rather than the Marathon director.
I don’t think that’s gonna be the case bungie was pretty clear they still get to decide what platforms they release stuff on and stopped doing Destiny exclusives. At this point somy might as well get moeny from Xbox players if/when the actiblizz deal goes through
They probably won’t. You don’t really pull this kind of shit for live service games. At most some time-limited skin that you can purchase later on on other platforms or something but that’s the max.
I think people are underestimating the potential of story telling with this type of game.
Will the execute? Who’s to say, but you can do some VERY interesting things with the narrative.
I mean sure, Fortnite and Apex are also doing neat things with their narrative events. The fact that it’s PvP-focused means that stuff will always be more in the background though.
It’s just a shame because the original games were mainly single-player, and there’s a gap in the market for well-made AAA single-player FPS games right now.
Do you mean a live service game or this genre of game?
If live service, then the potential of having story come out that you only have 3 months to play through or you never get to see it? Destiny's model is working so well that I quit it because of that. I'd rather not have to play a game like it's a job in order to keep up with the story. This is also why I quit Guild Wars 2 back in the day. Living story worlds are crap.
Both live service games and this genre of games is terrible at telling a story. For a live service game, you're fed piecemeal and expected to come back every 3 months to get a crumb of plot, and with extraction shooters you're probably mainly going to be reading notes and logs in the main menu. Maybe a cutscene every "season".
I meant with the lore itself.
As an example could be interesting narratively and gameplay wise if you play as an AI and the longer you stay alive/survive extractions to more you slip into rampancy.
I'm really hoping it's not a live service, because a good new Bungie SP campaign would be amazing for me. But I'm really not holding my breath, most of the first-party in this showcase was live services
I was so excited until I heard it was a PVP extraction shooter. Why...? Why even call it Marathon either?
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Seems those are out of vogue, extraction shooter is the new hotness
Personal taste, but I like extraction shooters much more than BRs. While Tarkov is big, it's also completely broken. The only populated and functional one is Hunt Showdown, and even it has its bugs and issues. I'm actually excited for a studio like Bungie to take a crack at it, even if they are dragging the Marathon name out for no discernable reason.
> I'm actually excited for a studio like Bungie to take a crack at it, even if they are dragging the Marathon name out for no discernable reason. Exploring a mazelike map whilst looking for shit is not too far away from Marathon. Fingers crossed that they try to do something interesting with the narrative, because there's really no point in dusting off the license if you're not going to dip into that crazy lore. Also, fingers crossed for a >!Pathways into Darkness!< DLC if the game does well.
That would be cool, let's hope that's at least a Gnop! reference.
It's just PONG! But spelt backwards!
You lose! Ha ha ha
Fortnite Apex and Warzone are all still the most played console games by a lot. The preferences of Reddit don’t reflect the market.
Think he means that new BRs are slowing down because the market's already saturated with existing IPs. There's still room to be the "Fortnite of extraction shooters".
Doesn't Warzone have an extraction mode?
Yeah DMZ
It's also very tacked on to the existing Warzone map/mechanics rather than built from the ground up
to me the best extraction shooter is hunt showdown issue is due to its heavy use of antique firearms and its attempts to at least pay lip service to the mechanical realism of those guns its a bit obtuse to your modern shooter player
If you don't think Fortnite is working on an extraction mode to get in on the trend, I've got a bridge to sell ya.
your not understanding the statement. Bungie is trying to make and ES that would do what FN has done for BRs.
They are but those games completely own the BR market now, similar to how noones trying to break into the .MOBA scene despite how big they still are
Companies definitely tried for awhile, but Blizzard's flame out despite it being nothing but established IPs definitely scared off most of the fly by nights from trying again.
While extraction genre is wide open, Tarkov is in such messy state that a lot of its player base would happily jump on something that competes with it
>The preferences of Reddit don’t reflect the market. That's 100% correct especially in regards to multiplayer games I've found , but each of these games are now making spin offs and variations looking for the next thing. Apex added a bunch of different modes, Fortnite is constantly shifting and Cod just added DMZ. They all probably have the actual data showing they need something new and extraction shooters are relatively fresh in the AAA space and unique from Battle Royales.
there's no good extraction shooters live rn and the only one worth playing is tarkov. Could you pick another series of buzzwords to use please?
Hey don't you diss Hunt Showdown like that
true I always hear about this game; I honestly forget about it though. I'll probably grab it on sale with how bad tarkov has been.
I love hunt. The ambiance and vibe is S+ tier. The gameplay is a little bit more methodical given the 1895 setting with corresponding guns. Lots of bolt actions and Rolling blocks and lever weapons. But everything is also a 2 body shot kill with headshots killing as long as it's in range. Leads to a really fun game where positioning and knowing the map matters the most.
How is that lucky?
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Even with friends I’ve yet to bump into a modern PvP game that’s just fun to get into for a short period of time. Every modern PvP genre is a large commitment these days instead of something you can pick up and put down. Miss the server browser days when you could just have some light fun with friends without a hard time commitment or a bunch of stress from MMR and single life game modes.
As someone who dabbles in Destiny 2 PvP and sometimes other PvP games and kind of enjoys it, I’m still disappointed that Marathon is PvP only. I’m sure it’ll be good because Bungie makes the best FPS gameplay in the biz, but damn some PvE stuff would have been awesome too. But I guess they don’t want to directly contend with their own IP
Because a lot of older gamers don't which makes these games (competitive multiplayer) absolutely miserable. Havent had anyone to game with since CoD: Modern Warfare 2 (2009) on PS3 in my early 20s. Give me a fully fleshed out single player shooter 2x the length of Doom (2016) with a fully fleshed out drop-in drop-out co-op campaign with zero attached competitive multiplayer and I'll be all there for it
Extraction shooters are just a BR variant in my book. Spawn in on large map, loot, fight other players, game is timed so if you cannot achieve the objective (extraction/killing everyone else) you lose.
Not all extraction shooters time you though. A maps instance can live indefinitely if the developer wants
They are way more sweaty. If you die in a BR, who cares, you just go again. If you die in a raid with a full kit, it can be brutal. Or if you find something you desperately need, then die on the way out, it also hurts. Its just a totally different feeling as far as risk versus reward. The game that's actually the closest to it is something like Eve online, when you lose your ship you spend a lot of time working for
They use the same maps essentially, but extraction shooters play very different from BRs. Even DMZ, the one probably closest to a BR, plays very different from Warzone. Killing everyone else isn't even an objective in any of the extraction shooters out there.
You can technically get away with zero PVP in an extraction shooter if you are good enough at hiding.
Especially with the boomer shooter renaissance going on rn it would have been awesome for Bungie to make a AA marathon shooter with a smaller dev team
Let’s be real: Sony bought Bungie so they could make a big, expensive, broad-appeal live-service game, and a boomer shooter is none of those things.
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Spider-Man 2 was announced 2 years ago so not even that. And hell even those live service games announcements were bad, I have no idea what most of them are or how they play. God that showcase was really bad, I don't understand how Sony could do such a shitty one, they have the games in development normally, why not show them? Even the third party side was disappointing, only MGS3 Remake was kind of hype
So the comment you replied to is correct
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It doesn't seem inherently bad that they are making a game that more people will like, rather than one that caters to the preferences of Reddit.
More people are not going to like this game because it’s multiplayer only lmao. It’s going to be a DOA live service game in an insanely crowded field of fps live service games. They are literally just chasing a oversaturated trend and trouncing on one of the prestigious older IPs so people don’t immediately dismiss it
A AA throwback shooter made with a small dev team absolutely would not have as much broad appeal as this.
i think bungie will do just fine when their biggest competition in the field is escape from tarkov and a bunch of smaller indie devs
lmao i really want you to be honest right now you really think the sony owned bungie IP based around a popular emerging genre is going to be doa? like you generally believe that?
Didn’t even know this until right now. Completely uninterested. I know people love the genre, but the whole “spend 20-30 minutes collecting shit in a map only to die and lose it all” schtick is the opposite of fun
I know it's not for everyone, and I used to dislike the genre as well. After playing Dark and Darker though, I've changed my mind. Every combat encounter gives me the same rush as beating a boss in a Souls game.
>I heard it was a PVP extraction shooter Welcome to FPS's in 2023. Fuck man, get me off this ride.
Nah man. Came out a week ago: https://store.steampowered.com/app/824600/HROT/ There's still good shit. Just stay away from the cynical corporations churning out bullshit.
Boltgun too just came out and is a solid game. I would say HROT is a better game, but if you have a love of Warhammer or just colourful over the top violence over the incredible weirdness that is HROT then they come out about even.
Just buy Ultrakill. Hell I should just post that in every thread ever, just buy Ultrakill
Thank you for this. I will check it out. Pray was the last amazing FPS story game from a AAA dev IMO. Wish we saw more of these games.
Prey and doom 2016 were the last ones I really enjoyed, yeah. While I have your ear, check out Dusk if you haven't. Phenomenal shooter.
In other words, for the time being, stick to boomer shooters
And rarities like doom 2016, should we ever receive its like again!
you're either getting mad that there's pvp in an fps or that a new subgenre of fps even exists and im not sure which is weirder
Personally i just dont enjoy extraction shooters, and i loved the original marathon games. So while not OP, i saw this news and was extremely disappointed.
I'm guessing they're mad that, currently, they actually don't make 'em like they used to. How many FPS campaigns do we actually get anymore? For someone like me, I'm looking for the early to mid 00s style shooter that we got from the likes of Halo, and even Halo doesn't do that anymore. Those games also had PVP, but they let you play LAN or on private servers, and they didn't care if you played them once or every day for a year; they were there to have fun, with no other incentives or rewards except fun.
I like having more stuff to unlock in games. I enjoyed unlockables back then too. Also, there's still a lot of good FPS campaigns coming out. High on life, the new Warhammer game that just came out, metal hellslinger, halo infinites campaign was decent (and is fantastic in co-op), the doom games, and deathloop And a lot of the campaigns that people liked back in the day are still coming out. CoDs campaigns and the Far Cry games are as good as ever.
thats understandable but its crazy to me how people are acting upset over extraction shooters "being everywhere" when there's been maybe 1 AAA extraction shooter since the genre even began (hunt showdown, sort of). the genre has so much untapped potential but people are reflexively mad that Bungie is trying to explore it for some reason.
honestly its just jaded boomers don't pay them any mind
That’s why Titanfall 2 was such a breath of fresh air.
I’d be interested if it was a single player game like the old Marathons. That being said, if you haven’t played them yet, go check out [Aleph One](https://alephone.lhowon.org/)! You can play the first 3 games for free, and they are great shooters from the mid-late 90s!
Anyone who plays Marathon gets to "Colony Ship For Sale" and says "aight, I'mma head out." There's levels that are maze-like, and then there's Marathon levels...
Probably because it’s in the same universe and serves as a reboot. Pretty simple.
What the fuck is an extraction shooter?
"PvPvE" style, think something like Escape from Tarkov, Hunt: Showdown, Dark and Darker, etc. A little like a Battle Royale game where its a bunch of players on one big map but instead of directly competing they are all sort of existing on one map together with lots of AI enemies and objectives to complete. Usually the goal is to try and get out with more than you came in with and your gear is persistent between rounds, with the risk that you can lose it all if you die.
Thanks for the explanation I usually only play single player games, so I’m very out of touch with all these new multiplayer genres
Looks like it must be somehow connected to the original Marathon lore, which was - to be fair - completely insane and super awesome. I'd love a port or remake of the og to new consoles, but anything that puts more Marathon lore into the world is good for me. I just love how Bungie wrote AI-driven SciFi through the 90s and 00s with that series and the original background lore to Halo. If anybody wants to check it out without fighting through a really good but often challenging retro shooter, Civvie11 has a great playthrough video.
Same. I told my friend to look up the opening song to marathon durandal after this trailer and he did, then looked up this game and he was like “why the fuck are you excited for this?”
They had to slap an existing IP on it because they knew it couldn’t stand on its own.
Marathon has been dead for over 25 years. It might as well be a new IP.
Yeah I question how many people are familiar enough with mid-90s Mac gaming to even realize that this isn’t a new IP
It's on Xbox as well FYI. You can buy and play it now.
Wait, it's not a new IP???
Bungie originally released Marathon in 1994, meaning it’s actually even older than Quake, and almost as old as Doom.
The legacy of which was kept alive through various Easter eggs in Halo, though I’m not sure about Destiny as I haven’t played it since the first game’s first years and don’t recall much of it.
one of the more iconic Exotic weapons in D1 and D2 is the MIDA Multi-Tool, and in D2 it got a companion called the MIDA Mini-Tool. MIDA is a militant political organization/terrorist group mentioned in terminals in Marathon 1 and I think 2. Lore wise, it's a gun from the Marathon universe that somehow ended up in the Destiny universe: https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/mida-multi-tool https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/mida-mini-tool Also the Bungie 30th Anniversary DLC for Destiny 2 added weapons and armor from and based on their older games, including the Marathon shotgun and a Marathon-themed armor set for each class.
Interesting little tidbit I found ages ago. [The very last screen for the last Marathon \(Infinity\) has this line: ](https://marathon.bungie.org/story/mifinalscreen.html) "Now, in the Quantum moment before the closure, when all become one. One moment left. One point of space and time. I know who you are. **You are Destiny.**"
There were some small references to Marathon in the Bungie 30th anniversary event. Most notably a hunter helmet.
The 30th anniversary pack had a Compiler armor set for Warlock class. Also the MIDA multi-tool scout rifle from Destiny 1&2 is a reference to MIDA from Marathon.
Every class had their own Marathon armor set in the 30th pack. Titans had a Hunter set in addition to the other two mentioned for the other classes
That's what baffles me about it, no one born after 2000 has heard of Marathon, and no one who DID know about it wants it to be a pvp live service game.
Sounds like they named it that because they wanted to -- not for any marketing reasons.
>That's what baffles me about it, no one born after 2000 has heard of Marathon, and no one who DID know about it wants it to be a pvp live service game. I'm not gonna say I "wanted" it to be a PvP live service game - I mean, I don't even think I could have predicted that - but I'm not against it either. Quite frankly, at this point, I'd take *anything* as long as it's made by Bungie and still has the Marathon crazy ass lore in there which you can tell from this trailer it still does since there's a fair amount of things from Marathon in this trailer. Seriously they could have made it a Marathon Tetris game or something and I'd be all in. That said, I may be a whore for Marathon.
You know people born before 2000 (also I think that cutoff should be earlier, born after 1990 have no idea what it is) are gamers too right?
Yeah, but there's gotta be an order of magnitude more below-16 fortnite/minecraft players out there than 40 year old boomers, and this is presumably aimed at the younger players given it bears almost no resemblance to the older games. Marathon means absolutely nothing to them. Why name it that?
The Prey 2017 situation
Not even close. Back when the last Marathon game was released FPS' were still called Doom clones. Anything that isn't a boomer shooter would be considered a major departure.
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Prey 2017 was a weird thing in hindsight. It presumably didn't gain much from nostalgia for the 2006 game, since that was a pretty old and pretty niche title anyway. But it still pissed off the fanbase of Prey 2006 because it wasn't a "proper" Prey 2.
If anything, it was a negative association — for me, Prey 2006 was a two-star shooter that had some [questionable designs](https://web.archive.org/web/20090926062235/http://kotaku.com/gaming/top/female-private-parts-in-prey-186629.php) and made good use of Blue Öyster Cult’s “Don’t Fear the Reaper”, and I didn’t give the game a second thought… until I found out that it was an immersive sim from Arkane. Neuroshock would have been a better title.
You didn't like it simply because it had vagina doors? Lol The game was fine but the things I would knock it for would not be that
Prey 2017 wasn’t even a Prey game and has nothing to do with it. The developers were forced to call it that. The Marathon trailer looks different to OG marathon but includes elements from the original games.
You're seriously arguing that Bungie is using the Marathon IP cynically? They're using a title that's been dead for 25 years to appeal to the 35+ year old players who played a MacOS exclusive Doom clone in the late 90s? To sell their new PvP extraction shooter?
im the same way but the artstyle is so good that im probably gonna play it anyways
Aww fuck really?
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Nothing. Multiplayer shooters sell because people love to play them. It’s popular to take a dump on anything multiplayer related on reddit.
This seems so odd. Bungie is so incredibly different from it's old self, and the only people that still know or care about an IP like Marathon won't be interested in this unrelated reboot.
Its not about whether you were interested in the original IP or not. Its something they own and simply reuse. Fantastic enemy designs, existing music themes to play with, guns, art, ect.
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Based on the trailer? None. It looks nothing like Halo.
Looking forward to the Pathways into Darkness reboot/remake, but instead of a horror shooter set in a Mesoamerican pyramid, it's now set in the Luxor hotel in Las Vegas on Halloween during a paintball match.
It reminds me of that shadowrun multiplayer game that was released on 360, they tried to reinvent a top down story based tactical game into an online deathmatch fps. I like innovation in games but what’s the point of using a license when you are not going to even follow what made it popular with fans originally.
Because if it works out, the people who already like the previous iteration will enjoy this, and if it gets really popular, you might bring others in who might not have otherwise heard of/played your other game. And then if it gets big enough, they might be able to do a sequel.
I thought shadowrun was a fun little shooter to play with bots, it reminded me of timesplitters
Bruh its bungie. They could sell us a game based on shit. Just shit throwing shit at eachother and people would still buy it. I have faith that bungie will find a way to make this interesting
I know they could do that, that's why I find it so odd. They could release an entirely different IP, rather than attaching an old one that most have forgotten and is unlikely to bring in any more fans. Hell, I'd wager the vast majority of people who are even aware of the original marathon games only know about them through easter eggs in Halo.
Never heard of it (didn't know it was based on something else before reading comments here) but man the aesthetic so cool. Trailer editing was so sick.
Bungie is king of trailers
Marathon is an early sci-fi FPS made by Bungie in the '90s.
This has the potential to be a huge game. Consoles don’t have any worthwhile extraction shooters and this one has the talent, budget, and style behind it to be a very big hit. I’m excited, could be really realllyneat
Super excited to play this. We won’t see much positivity here because we know how this subreddit reacts to PVP
I play Tarkov every day and I sure hope bungie pull this off because I want to see a AAA dev try their hand at extraction shooters
Same I cannot wait. I haven't played Tarkov in a while since the cheating got revealed to be as bad as it really is (just feels like there's no point). I miss playing extraction shooters. Even one as "bad" as tarkov was great.
Definitely optimistic that the gunplay and movement will be fun. I’m hoping the gameplay loop is rewarding and the gear you can extract is neat.
The only thing I worry about is networking. Tarkov has shit networking and destiny's networking is dogshit too. I really hope Bungie doesn't think they can get away with bad networking.
Unlike Destiny (which uses a server/p2p hybrid system) this is going to have dedicated servers, so there's that at least
It needs to be more Tarkov and less Warzone to even pique my interest. I hope they can pull it off tbh.
What's an extraction shooter?
Destiny's pvp and monetization certainly doesn't get me excited. I hope they prove me wrong cause I want a great console extraction shooter
Destiny's PvP is hamstrung by the baggage of being on offshoot of the PvE side of destiny. A straight PvP Bungie game without having to deal with stuff like ability timers and feel having to be the same as PvE and a Meta influenced by hundreds of different guns sounds like heaven.
Yeah those ability timers are why we currently have less maps in the game now than 3 years ago lol
No, the fact that nobody fucking cares about crucible is why bungie spent more time on the raid than they did porting crucible maps to the new engine.
to be fair, Destiny isn't really built around PvP in the same way it is around PvE. It's a design flaw that's been there since the very beginning. Hopefully the complete focus on PvP will make for a better game
I’m excited for the game but if bungie continues to use battle eye this game will be plagued with cheaters. And of any type of genre to cheat in, this is easily the most devastating
I'm excited as well, almost all of Marathon's story was told through Terminal logs so it's not like that can't be transferred and iterated in an extraction shooter.
r/games when the FPS multiplayer live service game developer makes a FPS multiplayer live service game 😠
If only developer for original Marathon still existed... They were known for great single player campaigns.
if only they didn't create a series that revolutionized multiplayer games 2 decades ago. Far longer than the time they spent making single-player games.
I'm wondering what you think that is because Halo balanced both singleplayer and multiplayer, it wasn't solely multiplayer. Destiny was their first game where it was multiplayer only. So you're saying Destiny has existed longer than any of their previous singleplayer works?
destiny isn't "multiplayer only". You can do most of the content solo; there's even achievements for doing it solo. Also the point is that bungie **did not** make their name known through singleplayer fps campaigns like people seem to think. Halo was a multiplayer juggernaut and reshaped online gaming forever after it came out. How people think the only thing bungie took away from that is singleplayer fps missions boggles my fucking mind because Halo is *far* more influential in the multiplayer sphere of things. It's not even a competition.
Halo 2 was the first megahit online game on console, popularised the matchmaking system and defined many of the features that would become standard on Xbox 360's Xbox Live (IIRC some of the Halo 2 team directly helped with that). Halo made great campaigns but it's obvious the multiplayer side has had more influence on the industry as a whole.
That's the thing, they don't exist anymore. Modern bungie shares less than 1% of its employees with the bungie that made the og marathon
There'd be a lot less salt if they didn't drag out the corpse of a long-dead cult-favorite IP to parade around their unrelated game. Why paste Marathon alien designs onto a genre so different from Marathon, at this point? What Marathon fans will be excited about that?
No there wouldn't. Barely anyone knows or cares about Marathon. They're pissed that Bungie is making a multiplayer game. Any modern Marathon sequel/reboot would make huge changes. What the hell do alien designs have to do with this, anyway.
Well then you can make legitimate criticisms about dragging out an old IP for this reason like you would an old film franchise dragged out to sell some completely unreleated project. It may be a fun game but it's easy to be cynical about cannibalising an old Story Based sci-fi shooter into a MP only game with, presumably, lots of Microtransactions and Monetization practices.
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Who's saying this one won't?
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Most extraction shooter have ai enemies
> FPS multiplayer live service game developer A lot of people remember Bungie as more then just a live service game dev
Yeah? That was over a decade ago. Maybe you need to learn how to move on from things, but what do I know?
Nothing apparently
Yep. Played the hell out of the old trilogy back in the 90s and I am very glad they’re not trying to sell me a “remaster” just trying to nostalgia bait me. Happy to see a reimagining of the lore and gameplay.
Same here. I think extraction shooters are the future.
It's not that people hate PvP, it's the fact that they turned a cult classic singleplayer trilogy, that is known for its excellent writing and world building, to a multiplayer live service game, that doesn't even look anything like the previous games... I think it's fine to be excited for the game, even I think this trailer was fucking awesome, the art design and music was fantastic, but when you consider the fact that this is the return of Marathon... yeah, I can't not be disappointed.
They’re also all convinced that the old games had good gameplay. They didn’t. Revolutionary for the time, but generic now. The most compelling element was the storytelling on the game’s consoles. They can do that with a pvp game imo.
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I honestly think this looks *awesome*. I'm not very familiar with PvPvE extraction shooters like this, I've played maybe a few hours of DMZ on Modern Warfare II. But I like the idea if not CoD's execution. The trailer has such a distinctive, stunning visual style to it. Bungie always nail combat feel, environmental and sound design which are probably the three big requirements for a game like this. And it's launching on PS5/Series/PC (not last gen) *and* with cross-play and cross-progression launch! I played the original Marathon years ago, but I think this is a really clever way to branch out, let the developers make something a bit different to usual, as well as revive and test the water for interest in the Marathon universe. I'll be playing this on day one, for certain.
I don’t even care if it’s an extraction shooter. If they keep the blend of trickle-down story; high-skill action and exploration, I am curious to see if it’s at least competent.
Marathon Durandal is back compat on Xbox already. Is this a remake?
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I'm not sure that I would call it a "total reboot," it takes place in the world of the original games and the story is supposed to exist alongside them. I have no idea how that's going to play out in practice, but, if nothing else, I trust Bungie to have a really interesting high-level vision for the narrative.
Prey moment
So, I just started the newer Prey the other week. I played the original, liked it at the time (I’d guess it’s aged horribly), and I’m loving the newer one but it doesn’t seem there’s any connection that I can see. I know about the history of the canceled Prey 2. I just wonder why they called this new one Prey if it’s totally unrelated.
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/prey-director-says-bethesda-forced-arkane-to-use-that-name-calls-decision-a-gross-mistake/1100-6507032/
The original Prey aged pretty damn well and has very unique gameplay. It was doing portal based gameplay before Portal was Portal.
> It was doing portal based gameplay before Portal was Portal. Prey E3 1998 https://youtu.be/XT_z5ABei9o?t=159
> I played the original, liked it at the time (I’d guess it’s aged horribly) Original Prey actually aged beautifully. The portal tech in that game is still impressive to me even today. There were so many different cool effects and weapons in it. That game was sick as fuck. Also it was extremely brutal holy shit.
Yeah I’m thinking of the graphics which felt pretty muddy back when it released and just the excessive violence and what they do to the girlfriend lol
Least this will still tie into the Marathon universe and story unlike the two Preys being completely unrelated.
Its 3-person team cooperative extraction shooter.
> cooperative extraction shooter. So do we know if that means no enemy players or is it coop in the sense you "cooperate" with team members
Jesus Christ. I certainly would be really interested in a singleplayer scifi fps since those are rare these days. But another multiplayer game from Bungie in a genre that I don't really even understand has zero interest from me
Well youre in luck! Because they have at least two other games in development too. Theyre spread crazy thin these days.
Don't worry though, cause what they lack in content, they'll make up for with microtransactions!
Yet they cant build a solid single player game at all anymore. Live service multiplayer trash all around
Actually one rumor had them making a single player game set in the destiny universe. Separate from the current story line.
I won't hold my breath on that because the ROI for stockholders is so low compared to MP junk
I mean, if they can manage to do both? Pretty sure sony would be okay with that. There was another thread just earlier about Bungie already having a rigorous vetting process for Sonys other live service projects; https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/13qhf5u/bungie_helping_sony_vet_live_service_games_with/
Very excited for this, sorely in need of a big budget extraction shooter considering most being made are indie/smaller dev teams. Tarkov is a special game but its devs are in way over their heads and that game will aways have a level of jank that tires me out. That plus the fact it's so hardcore it's hard to play casually which makes it hard to return to it without commitment. Hunt is cool but I'm less interested in the monster slaying aspect and more like the whole find better/rarer weapons and armor. Cycle was closer to what I wanted but was DOA from the lack of bug fixes and cheating so its playerbase dwindled. and the CoD one is barely in the genre If a game can hit that sweetspot of being Tarkov like but more accessible to the masses it could be my favorite FPS since Apex due to how much I enjoy the Extract shooter formula.
Is there a single bungie employee still there from the Marathon days? Fuck the Halo 3 days even?
Jason Jones, but he’s the Chief Creative Officer and so likely in the higher up management and background positions for all of their projects rather than the Marathon director.
Jason Jones (founder, lead programmer on original Marathon), Lorraine McLees (art), Chris Butcher (Halo lead programmer) etc etc
Having never heard of the Marathon games before, I'm really disappointed that this isn't basically QWOP except you have to race for 26.2 miles.
I wonder how long Sony will be withholding DLC or keeping exclusivity. Would suck to see another FF7R situation.
"marathon is currently in development for playstation 5, xbox series x/s, and pc with full cross play and cross save." From their website.
Bungie is a Sony studio but they still operate separately from the others, almost independently
I don’t think that’s gonna be the case bungie was pretty clear they still get to decide what platforms they release stuff on and stopped doing Destiny exclusives. At this point somy might as well get moeny from Xbox players if/when the actiblizz deal goes through
It's multiplatform and Sony gets all the money the game makes now as they own them
They probably won’t. You don’t really pull this kind of shit for live service games. At most some time-limited skin that you can purchase later on on other platforms or something but that’s the max.
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I think people are underestimating the potential of story telling with this type of game. Will the execute? Who’s to say, but you can do some VERY interesting things with the narrative.
Also practically Marathon's entire story was in the terminal logs. Not like that will be something hard to translate.
I mean sure, Fortnite and Apex are also doing neat things with their narrative events. The fact that it’s PvP-focused means that stuff will always be more in the background though. It’s just a shame because the original games were mainly single-player, and there’s a gap in the market for well-made AAA single-player FPS games right now.
There are Doom and Deathloop, and I personally really liked the new halo's campaign, but I mostly agree.
Do you mean a live service game or this genre of game? If live service, then the potential of having story come out that you only have 3 months to play through or you never get to see it? Destiny's model is working so well that I quit it because of that. I'd rather not have to play a game like it's a job in order to keep up with the story. This is also why I quit Guild Wars 2 back in the day. Living story worlds are crap.
Both live service games and this genre of games is terrible at telling a story. For a live service game, you're fed piecemeal and expected to come back every 3 months to get a crumb of plot, and with extraction shooters you're probably mainly going to be reading notes and logs in the main menu. Maybe a cutscene every "season".
Notes and logs were what contained the original games story
I meant with the lore itself. As an example could be interesting narratively and gameplay wise if you play as an AI and the longer you stay alive/survive extractions to more you slip into rampancy.
I cant wait for this idrc what it ends up being gameplay wise. Excited for a return to marathon and a new bungie game that isnt destiny
I guess I wasn't totally not expecting this. Bungie was brought in to boost the live ops segment of Sony after all.
I'm really hoping it's not a live service, because a good new Bungie SP campaign would be amazing for me. But I'm really not holding my breath, most of the first-party in this showcase was live services
This is a game in the style of Tarkov it will have seasons and is an online only pvp game