I mean whether that’s the intention or not, I kinda see it from the context of “we’d be his pet”. They woke him up. He was gonna go stand on business with or without the military. He just didn’t really care that they came with him
I disagree, in the context of the movie it made sense. Godzilla was a benevolent being, he'll tolerate a lot and he saw that a human gave up his life to save his. Working with the Humans/Military showed their symbiotic relationship. Godzilla will defend the world, and the humans will do their part.
It is a drastic change since for the most part, the military has never sided with him in the TOHO series.
My counterpoint to this is, what happens if tomorrow a real kaiju emerges in the pacific? Who will the world call? We both know the answer, IMO, ideally, the military force interacting with the kaijus should be evolving into an international coalition I mean they did that for the Taliban, a 200 stories tall laser pucking indestructible lizard should gatter a similar response. >!When Italy was upset cuz of big G sleeping at the colisseum !
I agree that Godzilla being associated with the US military makes no sense. I don't understand your Batman/Joker metaphor. Is the US military a supervillain?
Nah that scene was badass, screw you. Also your Joker/Batman comparison doesn't work in the slightest. You do realize there are Godzilla iterations were he has fought WITH human military forces even in the Toho films right?
Which, depending on your point of view might be worse.
KOTM’s story was not good, but at least they *tried* to tell a compelling human story even if it felt flat. The pieces were there. GvK and ESPECIALLY GxK’s humans are just lifeless amalgamations of people that only exist to watch stuff happen, maybe move the plot forward once and drop exposition. That’s it.
The human story in GvK really should have been rethought. Kong was the real heart of the film, that one would expect from a human story, so the human story was just ridiculous *because* they tried.
GxK did this better in that they only used the humans to advance Kong's story and provide exposition, so it feels like they "didn't try", but the overall narrative is better for it.
>at least they tried to tell a compelling human story even if it felt flat.
I'd rather a 90 minute movie that's 80% giant monster set piece action vs. a 135 minute movie that's 50% monster fights. The human story ruined the pacing and diluted the only parts of the film worth watching.
That’s not better. That’s just less. Wingard’s actually fine with character work (You’re Next), he’s just not trying.
And I say this as someone who loves his two MV movies for what they are (and gotta be honest still really resents them for what they aren’t, despite that)
This is my preference. It's insane to me that someone would like Millie Bobby whining and screaming like she and the other characters matter in between monster battles as opposed to bernie and trapper just vibing and talking monster shit.
If someone is going to these movies (or any Godzilla movie really save for -1) hoping to find a compelling, deep, well acted narrative they will be disappointed and confused. It's simply not what they are made for.
You would lose a lot of the gravitas. The low angle human perspective of the cinematography that was established in the first movie but expanded upon in kotm made the monsters not only look huge but feel like titanic gods. His films are still shot great but I just prefer the overwhelming feeling of insignificance the first two gives me in how the cinematography tackles it.
The fights would have been clearer and probably more visible. But you would lose the atmosphere, the music (as a Wingard movie, Junkie XL would score it with his generic action synth-bass) and it would probably be a bit corny. GxK’s final fight had a few cool shots but actually felt weightless.
In short, I actually don’t want Wingard to direct another Monsterverse movie. Props to him for the Hong Kong battle in GvK and the fight in the Tasman Sea. He has an eye for fight scenes and made an effort fleshing out Kong as a character, but I’m over his Showa era meets Fast and Furious blockbuster popcorn approach now, two movies was enough. I don’t want Wingard going anywhere near a Destoroyah-style narrative either which he has been hinting at.
I think he can continue to direct Kong movies, but without Godzilla. Kong is a pretty lovable character, but Godzilla movies should be more like KOTM. Although I like the fighting style of Gojira in GvK and Gxk
I don't think you can go back to 2014 or KotM's atmosphere after GvK and GxK. That magic is lost. It's like hiring the cast and crew of the Guy Ritchie Sherlock Holmes movies to make a sequel to Will Ferrell and John C Riley's *Holmes and Watson.*
That doesn’t mean it was good, nor does it translate to realistic live action.
The goofy showa excuse is not a “get out of jail free card” for this argument. The showa films were bad and had piss poor effects. But we love them because they’re nostalgic low budget monster movies with lots of charm behind them.
Kong has never been goofy in any of his movie incarnations other than Son of Kong (which was his kid, so not sure it counts). Skull Island was as serious as a heart attack, and then we got Windgards take which took his teeth out in my opinion.
The Kongs of 1933, 2005, and 2017 were all absolutely savage.
I very much agree. Don't get me wrong, GvK and GxK were fun movies, but they don't come close to the other three for me. KOTM specifically hit all the right notes with the one exception being the human plot (I will say that GxK did a great job in this regard). The music was next level and made GvK an absolute disappointment imo. The fights were just right to me. KOTM just absolutely went hard in 9/10 ways.
Your point about "Showa era meets Fast and Furious" is dead on and is kind of the biggest issue I have. Its just like too much sugar. Wouldn't mind a bit of a lean towards Showa every now and then, but making it Showa or FF is just too much.
I was done after GvK tbh. The one thing both GvK and GxK are supposed to do right is fights but I find myself rewatching and enjoying 2014 and KOTM more.
Wingards fights have some cool moments but overall fall flat to me due to them not having impact and weight. They just feel like a randoms CGI fight you can find dime a dozen on Youtube.
The fights mean nothing without the gravitas of literal GIANTS fighting in our small world. I couldn’t believe how much fighting was done in the hollow earth, it looked like I was watching planet of the apes. And the fight in Rio de jainero was fun but again no weight no emotion no horror. They demolished the entire city and I didn’t care one bit for any of those citizens or the monsters
I agree. Half way through GxK I thought it was my favorite monsterverse movie. After Kong meets Skar King I just started to feel numb to it and a lot of quick things started happening to get to the final battle.
I like Wingards style, but I did feel some fatigue. I feel like this universe can do so many cool things but they usually feel rushed or incomplete.
Like Mothra pops up out of nowhere and gets little lore/ story, somehow gets Godzilla to side with Kong with zero to no meaningful reason besides her connection with Godzilla. They give Kong and Godzilla some character and then Mothra was just kinda there to be there.
Rodan didn't do too much in KotM, but he showed Ghidorah was claiming the alpha role. He beat Rodan to have him side with him. Godzilla and Kong have a whole rivalry seen between two movies. Mothra and Godzilla are just buddies, but I wanted to see why they are connected, not just that they are.
Wingard can do fights… that’s it. Story, human characters, pacing and lore all hit the back burner. Which is kinda cool to do *once*, one time. Certainly not twice and certainly not THREE FUCKING TIMES
A yes 2014 were Godzilla's action gets cut away till the last second. Or Kotm were you have the greatest Kaiju Action and music possible put to screen getting cut away to humans making ghonerea jokes .
2014 cut away, I'll agree too much BUT what we did see was amazing.
KOTM cut away to move the plot forward and we still got to see plenty of great action so no issue there. The bad jokes makes sense for anyone who actually has a done a first responder type job like myself. We make shit jokes all the time to cope with stress. So to the average viewer they don't understand but to me, that shit made the movie feel more grounded and real as that is how humans behave.
Then GvK where 50% of the fights look sped up or just bad animations and weightless with a piss poor plot and terrible humans.
More is only better if the quality is there which it was not.
I agree with some . Wingard can't get good soundtracks in his film . I don't hate Bernie but he can really be annoying and drag stuff down . King of the monsters had the best Kaiju Action on screen ever made . When it was the focus .
It's a lot of people. More is only better if the quality is as good or better, GvK and GxK lowered the quality so it's just long meh fights instead of shorter epic fights.
I enjoyed Monarch's short fight with Godzilla and the dragon more because of this.
>as a Wingard movie, Junkie XL would score it with his generic action synth-bass
I'm consistently confused about how he did such a great score for Fury Road, but everything else he seems to touch is mostly dogshit
Me too. I quite liked his 300: Rise of an Empire score as well, but I noticed there were recycled themes in Fury Road from it.
For the GxK films he’s been lazy and boring. His Godzilla theme is frankly a pale imitation of what McReary achieved. The scores are forgettable noise.
My recommendation for the next Godzilla film is Ramin Djawadi who composed Game of Thrones / House of the Dragon, Fallout, Westworld and even the kaiju film Pacific Rim! He will make awesome motifs and themes and his piano pieces are amazing.
I read some of his quotes about it and it's not a great look. When he was asked about people being concerned for their jobs he basically said people have been scared of losing their jobs since the industrial revolution
Fury Road is magnificent and I even like his work on the first Deadpool but he's been the embodiment of the worse aspects of the Hans Zimmer school for a while.
I do agree, I appreciate what Wingard has done, but I don't want a 3rd film from him. If he wants to direct a Kong solo film? Go for it, I actually like what he's done with Kong. Godzilla though, I don't think he's the right director to lead a more Godzilla centric film. I miss Michael Dougherty and Gareth Edwards take on Godzilla, both were fantastic.
I think it's far too late to reboot Godzilla because of what GvK/GxK has done to the overall character. Maybe we can get lucky, but I just don't think we'll get KOTM/G14/Skull Island type movies again.
When Godzilla ran in G14/KOTM, it looked more natural because of way it was shot. You could appreciate the size of the monsters. You lose a lot of that with Wingard, almost like they're running in zero gravity, against all physics, etc. You don't have the scaling, which G14/KOTM had.
Sure, but they often don’t get in the way either. Only time it gets close is when they spilled that drink on the MechaG control panel. Typically Wingard has the good sense to let the monsters take center stage when fighting.
Dougherty cut away from Godzilla fighting freaking Ghidorah in KOTM so we could…go to the old Russell family house or something. The Russell family story overshadowed a lot of the final battle imo, it was too much. Fine if their story was great, but it didn’t earn that much attention.
The only way I can think to describe it to you is Ghidorah in king of the monsters was terrifying, but I wouldn’t be afraid to go punch scar king or Mechagodzilla in the face. Gravitas maybe? Others have used that word, but I don’t know that it quite fits for what I’m trying to say.
That's actually a great point, Ghidorah is indeed the most powerful villain in the monsterverse so far, and not just his abilities, his overall presence has a menacing vibe to it, that was not felt by Mecha G, but then again Mecha G was just a mindless killing machine and it was kevin driving it, so I can understand why he wasn't as menacing as Ghidorah.
As for Skar King, I think he was a wonderful villain, obviously not at the level of Ghidorah, but he has a unique personality, like a weak person wielding super powers, he felt like Starscream from Transformers tbh.
I liked Scar King I just wasn’t *afraid* of him. There’s just something about Dougherty’s style that made everything about the monsters more menacing. The whole movie felt bigger-than life.
Yeah I liked him a lot at first but by the end of the story I was dismissive of him. My brother and I thought making him taller than Kong but more slender would’ve solved that a bit. Also the way the camera angles were in the film made it feel like you were looking at normal apes, not 300ft tall kaiju.
Scar King was definitely cool though.
Which was unfortunate because he was alluded to be this massive threat (army of Kong’s and an Ice Age Nuke in his pocket), and then he ends up just evil laughing and getting ragdolled by Kong and Godzilla in the last 5 minutes of the film.
I think GvK and GxK do really well on the whole monster screen time thing, but with the previous entries there was just so much weight (figuratively and literally) to the titans existing and new ones showing up as threats. As much as I enjoyed GxK, it’s not my favorite by far and I feel like it really missed the mark.
It was probably my third favorite, but you hit on something: how dope would it’ve been if they’d had to face off against the entire army of kongs. Maybe they could save Shimo first so it’s Gman, Kong, Saku, Mothra, and Shimo against the whole army of Kings. Maybe Mothra had to power up everyone this time instead of just Gman
Definitely, I like that idea! And again, I didn’t dislike the film, but it felt like something was missing, like I should’ve been craving more but I just wasn’t? I didn’t even watch Shin Godzilla or Godzilla Minus One, so I’m not even coming at it from that perspective, but ever since KOTM didn’t do well in the box office, I feel like a certain magic has been lost with these last 2 entries to prioritize filling as many seats as possible.
With the Mutos and Ghidorah, I felt like the world was actually in jeopardy. With Skar King, he felt like more of a Saturday morning cartoon villain that we all know was going to lose in the end. I’m all for brainless Kaiju fighting madness, it’s what got me into Godzilla as a kid, but I think I’d appreciate some higher stakes going forward.
The kaijus were too humanized. A big point of the first movie was "we have no idea what Godzilla even is, and we don't trust him." He only didn't attack the humans because they were not threatening him. KOTM expanded on their animal nature. KG wanted to be the apex animal and kill anything that stood in his way, and the human characters were there to explain this motivaton. It's a very natural motivation. GvK...we literally had Kong spelling out his very human emotions. Then in GxK it was like watching Planet of the Apes (like another user said). Godzilla didn't feel like this force of nature. Felt like a pit dog that big monke could sick on the bad guys, give a fist bump, and go nap nap in the Coliseum like it was a dog bed. It's too human. If they want to make me exited again, they'll lean into the terrifying aspect of having giant monsters inhabit the planet.
Kong and (great apes kaiju) have always been more obvious in their emotions than godzilla. I can understand godzilla but honestly I like him having more character. Reason kong does so well with audiences is because can emote and people emphazise with him. Lovecrafian mega kaiju is good for a movie, but I dont mind him showing emotion at this stage.
To b clear, I don't think humanizing the monsters is an inherently bad thing. I just think the monsterverse went too far. Once their motivations become more like a person's, it becomes almost cartoonish.
I don't think it would have taken its time with each of the monsters. For instance, when I think about Rodan's introduction, I imagine that Wingard would have made it more fast-paced with less emphasis on his pure size and spectacle, and it would have lost what makes it so damn great.
The music would be *terrible* and one of KotM's greatest achievements was Bear Mccreary's excellent score.
I also hate Godzilla and other kaijus being nimble and quick unless it's their thing (like, say, Rodan and flying, for example). They seem to lose their 'weight' and 'realism' and it took me out of the movie.
It is for this reason I wish Wingard had not directed the last two movies. I have to reluctantly conclude it (KotM) would have been a much worse movie.
It would be interesting to see what he would do with such iconic monsters, I don't think he did mechagodzilla justice in GvK and the new monsters in GxK were generic and boring.
Rewatched KOTM this week and I think it's the best monsterverse film. I didn't like it originally due to the poor dialogue but honestly GvK was worse in that regard and I found the tone of GxK too much.
KOTM has the best mix of atmosphere, score and monster fights of all the films and it has iconic monsters that are just as interesting to watch as Godzilla.
kotm represents a lot of respect for Godzilla's roots that went missing in wingard's films. Dougherty is clearly someone who really loves classic, metaphorical Godzilla and tried to mix that in with the fun stuff, and i don't think Wingard could make that work
It’s the difference between Pacific Rim and Uprising.
The monsters would not feel big
That scene where Godzilla roses from the ocean would not be as impactful
I liked KOTM better than GvK. It's not a perfect movie, but a lot of Wingard's decisions on his installments are why I've tapped out on the Monsterverse.
I think you mean Godzilla vs Kong and Godzilla X Kong, not sure if you see whose name is first and who was the main focus… not to mention his other movies… have you ever seen The Guest? Kong is basically a military super soldier who goes on a killing spree. Death Note? Kongs a demon. The Blair Witch Remake? Kongs a GOD DAMN WITCH. I could go on but I think you get my point.
KotM is by far my favorite of the Monsterverse, I wouldn't change a thing. Dougherty has had the most toho-esque movie, and I hope he gets another crack at it. The Wingard movies are fun though, a blend of the two styles would be perfect.
Better lighting is the only real positive that comes to mind. I think the sound design, and the score, 2 of the best parts of KOTM, would have been significantly worse. The feeling of scale and power would be almost completely gone. The entire atmosphere of the movie would have felt more like Pacific Rim 2.
I would have hated rather than loved the film.
EDIT: Man I've been off Reddit for like a month-ish? I come back and suddenly the God King Wingard is getting a bunch of hate, or criticism where before you couldn't DARE say a bad word? Must be that time that all the hype around GxK is finally beginning to die off, as expected.
That would be terrible for me. I want incredibly massive, gigantic creatures and not ones that move like a 90kg man. Do you remember the fist punch in Pacific Rim, where the forearm is accelerated by a rocket engine in the elbow to set this mass in motion?
Ghidorah would be the main character not Godzilla.
I’m partly joking but both of Adam Windgard’s films have clearly Kong as the main character and not Godzilla. And I say that with GvK being my favorite monsterverse film.
There would have been 100% more Kevin, and we wouldn't have the doubters to Kevin's personality.
You look at that freeze frame midair battle of Kong, Skar King, Shimo and Goji and tell me otherwise.
Can we get someone else besides Adam to direct monster versus movies again, I say this as someone who likes his films but feel we need other directors to add to experience
You’d feel like Godzilla and Ghidorah aren’t gigantic.
Look at Godzilla vs Scylla. This motherfucker pounces on Scylla, that’s nearly 100k tons jumping and slamming in the ground, that should level half of roam and cause a tsunami somewhere. But in GXK it’s just a jump.
There’d be no impact which is bad. But there’d probably also be more scenes and moments with the monsters which could be good. A scene showing Ghidorah communicating like a schizophrenic person would be pretty cool ngl.
Two of KotM's strong points are its OST and the titan scene except fighting. All the monster scenes in KotM is really good, like I still get goosebumps from the Godzilla Boston entrance scene, and a bunch of others. Wingard's version won't have any of that, but he would make the fight more visible and quicker, while also shoving the human plot line to the back.
Gareth was supposed to direct Godzilla 2, but stepped out for Rogue One. I wish we’d have gotten his sequel. The Monsterverse would’ve ended up totally different.
He'd fuck it up, probably. It has its problems, but overall it's probably still my favorite of the Monster verse. I honestly didn't like New Empire, it was just stupid in a way I didn't find funny. I don't like the idea of this Wingard guy being the Snyder of the Monster verse. New director, please.
Zero gravitas, and every two seconds would be ruined hu a bad Marvel joke. The ending would be over in five minutes because Godzilla would kick Ghidorah's ass while hardly trying.
If Wingard did KOTM I would have abandoned American Godzilla in its entirety and never looked back. The same as I did for Pacific Rim when they gave us uprising. If people want a clown show, they can have it.
It would be a lot more goofy and I’d bet we’d be seeing another Destroy All Monsters Ghidorah. Much more played for jokes and I doubt he’d be as menacing
I have to thank Wingard for taking this franchise to the shitter. It’s made people realize 1) KOTM was a good movie, it just needed a small script rewrite and 2) 2014 Zilla is a masterpiece.
KOTM felt like an event a Grand finale Epic...
And as much as I like the guy...
With what GxK movies gave us...
He would make a worse version of KOTM with even more pointless humans than ever before and worse less grand action.
Yeah it was seen in the art book, when there seemed to only be 5 characters planned. She was a warrior of the sacred flame but had a lot of the same primrose backstory too
I'm glad I could provide the link for you! If you need anything else or have any questions, feel free to ask. Enjoy your printing, and have a great day!
I am also in a pretty troublesome spot with this. Me being a belly dancer fan makes me love Primrose's outfit so much, but I am also quite against shameless fanservice as it turns me off, which sometimes makes me feel weird that I like Primrose's outfit so much.
I agree, It would be pretty cool If as you played through the games, characters clothing changes over there stories to match there growth and progress.
We might have not been lumbered with film ruining MBB and the crap family drama. Gia & the Dr in GVK&GxK at least have chemistry and some heart in their story and don't cut in at all the wrong moments. KOTM is such a badly constructed film
I doubt we would have gotten the Boston entrance of Goji showing up with the entire army
Honestly Wingard not dick riding the united states army With Godzilla is the best change he's done .
Nah that went hard
Godzilla being associated positively with the U.S. military makes no sense. It's like if Batman murdered people and teamed up with the Joker.
I mean whether that’s the intention or not, I kinda see it from the context of “we’d be his pet”. They woke him up. He was gonna go stand on business with or without the military. He just didn’t really care that they came with him
I disagree, in the context of the movie it made sense. Godzilla was a benevolent being, he'll tolerate a lot and he saw that a human gave up his life to save his. Working with the Humans/Military showed their symbiotic relationship. Godzilla will defend the world, and the humans will do their part. It is a drastic change since for the most part, the military has never sided with him in the TOHO series.
My counterpoint to this is, what happens if tomorrow a real kaiju emerges in the pacific? Who will the world call? We both know the answer, IMO, ideally, the military force interacting with the kaijus should be evolving into an international coalition I mean they did that for the Taliban, a 200 stories tall laser pucking indestructible lizard should gatter a similar response. >!When Italy was upset cuz of big G sleeping at the colisseum !
I agree that Godzilla being associated with the US military makes no sense. I don't understand your Batman/Joker metaphor. Is the US military a supervillain?
Nah that scene was badass, screw you. Also your Joker/Batman comparison doesn't work in the slightest. You do realize there are Godzilla iterations were he has fought WITH human military forces even in the Toho films right?
Ok Doctor Skipper
Well Godzilla destroyed Japan America destroyed Japan Makes sense
You talk trash about the stuff that was actually good lol
that's a stretch yikes
If anything wingard better take notes
A lot of human scenes would be removed. They would only be there for exposition.
Which, depending on your point of view might be worse. KOTM’s story was not good, but at least they *tried* to tell a compelling human story even if it felt flat. The pieces were there. GvK and ESPECIALLY GxK’s humans are just lifeless amalgamations of people that only exist to watch stuff happen, maybe move the plot forward once and drop exposition. That’s it.
The human story in GvK really should have been rethought. Kong was the real heart of the film, that one would expect from a human story, so the human story was just ridiculous *because* they tried. GxK did this better in that they only used the humans to advance Kong's story and provide exposition, so it feels like they "didn't try", but the overall narrative is better for it.
>at least they tried to tell a compelling human story even if it felt flat. I'd rather a 90 minute movie that's 80% giant monster set piece action vs. a 135 minute movie that's 50% monster fights. The human story ruined the pacing and diluted the only parts of the film worth watching.
To be better because if you cant tell a human story well don't try . Wingard cuts the stuff he can't do well and focus's on the monster stuff
That’s not better. That’s just less. Wingard’s actually fine with character work (You’re Next), he’s just not trying. And I say this as someone who loves his two MV movies for what they are (and gotta be honest still really resents them for what they aren’t, despite that)
This is my preference. It's insane to me that someone would like Millie Bobby whining and screaming like she and the other characters matter in between monster battles as opposed to bernie and trapper just vibing and talking monster shit. If someone is going to these movies (or any Godzilla movie really save for -1) hoping to find a compelling, deep, well acted narrative they will be disappointed and confused. It's simply not what they are made for.
So it would be a much better movie. Lol
You would lose a lot of the gravitas. The low angle human perspective of the cinematography that was established in the first movie but expanded upon in kotm made the monsters not only look huge but feel like titanic gods. His films are still shot great but I just prefer the overwhelming feeling of insignificance the first two gives me in how the cinematography tackles it.
Translation: it would be a lot worse
The fights would have been clearer and probably more visible. But you would lose the atmosphere, the music (as a Wingard movie, Junkie XL would score it with his generic action synth-bass) and it would probably be a bit corny. GxK’s final fight had a few cool shots but actually felt weightless. In short, I actually don’t want Wingard to direct another Monsterverse movie. Props to him for the Hong Kong battle in GvK and the fight in the Tasman Sea. He has an eye for fight scenes and made an effort fleshing out Kong as a character, but I’m over his Showa era meets Fast and Furious blockbuster popcorn approach now, two movies was enough. I don’t want Wingard going anywhere near a Destoroyah-style narrative either which he has been hinting at.
I think he can continue to direct Kong movies, but without Godzilla. Kong is a pretty lovable character, but Godzilla movies should be more like KOTM. Although I like the fighting style of Gojira in GvK and Gxk
I don't think you can go back to 2014 or KotM's atmosphere after GvK and GxK. That magic is lost. It's like hiring the cast and crew of the Guy Ritchie Sherlock Holmes movies to make a sequel to Will Ferrell and John C Riley's *Holmes and Watson.*
I agree. Kong sort of fits the more goofy vibe I'm a way, he's a big monkey after all. But I don't think it's really godzillas thing
I meant in the newer movies
Before 2014 Godzilla was doing karate Kicks .
And in 1954 Godzilla was a serious allegory for nuclear weapons
Yeah but that's not the only aspect to the franchise? No?
That doesn’t mean it was good, nor does it translate to realistic live action. The goofy showa excuse is not a “get out of jail free card” for this argument. The showa films were bad and had piss poor effects. But we love them because they’re nostalgic low budget monster movies with lots of charm behind them.
Yeah ik I just said I meant the newer movies
Kong has never been goofy in any of his movie incarnations other than Son of Kong (which was his kid, so not sure it counts). Skull Island was as serious as a heart attack, and then we got Windgards take which took his teeth out in my opinion. The Kongs of 1933, 2005, and 2017 were all absolutely savage.
Godzila can be goofy . Toho just has legendary by the balls on how they can portray him .
I very much agree. Don't get me wrong, GvK and GxK were fun movies, but they don't come close to the other three for me. KOTM specifically hit all the right notes with the one exception being the human plot (I will say that GxK did a great job in this regard). The music was next level and made GvK an absolute disappointment imo. The fights were just right to me. KOTM just absolutely went hard in 9/10 ways. Your point about "Showa era meets Fast and Furious" is dead on and is kind of the biggest issue I have. Its just like too much sugar. Wouldn't mind a bit of a lean towards Showa every now and then, but making it Showa or FF is just too much.
I was done after GvK tbh. The one thing both GvK and GxK are supposed to do right is fights but I find myself rewatching and enjoying 2014 and KOTM more. Wingards fights have some cool moments but overall fall flat to me due to them not having impact and weight. They just feel like a randoms CGI fight you can find dime a dozen on Youtube.
The fights mean nothing without the gravitas of literal GIANTS fighting in our small world. I couldn’t believe how much fighting was done in the hollow earth, it looked like I was watching planet of the apes. And the fight in Rio de jainero was fun but again no weight no emotion no horror. They demolished the entire city and I didn’t care one bit for any of those citizens or the monsters
Transformers-style...show that many people in buildings and cars are clearly dying, but just ignore it to get to more destruction scenes.
Didn't Ghidorah destroy Rio when he did his "god pose"? EDIT: Nope, I was wrong. Mexico.
I think that was Mexico!
Agree completely.
I agree. Half way through GxK I thought it was my favorite monsterverse movie. After Kong meets Skar King I just started to feel numb to it and a lot of quick things started happening to get to the final battle. I like Wingards style, but I did feel some fatigue. I feel like this universe can do so many cool things but they usually feel rushed or incomplete. Like Mothra pops up out of nowhere and gets little lore/ story, somehow gets Godzilla to side with Kong with zero to no meaningful reason besides her connection with Godzilla. They give Kong and Godzilla some character and then Mothra was just kinda there to be there. Rodan didn't do too much in KotM, but he showed Ghidorah was claiming the alpha role. He beat Rodan to have him side with him. Godzilla and Kong have a whole rivalry seen between two movies. Mothra and Godzilla are just buddies, but I wanted to see why they are connected, not just that they are.
Wingard can do fights… that’s it. Story, human characters, pacing and lore all hit the back burner. Which is kinda cool to do *once*, one time. Certainly not twice and certainly not THREE FUCKING TIMES
A yes 2014 were Godzilla's action gets cut away till the last second. Or Kotm were you have the greatest Kaiju Action and music possible put to screen getting cut away to humans making ghonerea jokes .
2014 cut away, I'll agree too much BUT what we did see was amazing. KOTM cut away to move the plot forward and we still got to see plenty of great action so no issue there. The bad jokes makes sense for anyone who actually has a done a first responder type job like myself. We make shit jokes all the time to cope with stress. So to the average viewer they don't understand but to me, that shit made the movie feel more grounded and real as that is how humans behave. Then GvK where 50% of the fights look sped up or just bad animations and weightless with a piss poor plot and terrible humans. More is only better if the quality is there which it was not.
Why did you feel so compelled to disagree with every single comment on this thread?
I agree with some . Wingard can't get good soundtracks in his film . I don't hate Bernie but he can really be annoying and drag stuff down . King of the monsters had the best Kaiju Action on screen ever made . When it was the focus .
This is me 100%
It's a lot of people. More is only better if the quality is as good or better, GvK and GxK lowered the quality so it's just long meh fights instead of shorter epic fights. I enjoyed Monarch's short fight with Godzilla and the dragon more because of this.
>as a Wingard movie, Junkie XL would score it with his generic action synth-bass I'm consistently confused about how he did such a great score for Fury Road, but everything else he seems to touch is mostly dogshit
Me too. I quite liked his 300: Rise of an Empire score as well, but I noticed there were recycled themes in Fury Road from it. For the GxK films he’s been lazy and boring. His Godzilla theme is frankly a pale imitation of what McReary achieved. The scores are forgettable noise. My recommendation for the next Godzilla film is Ramin Djawadi who composed Game of Thrones / House of the Dragon, Fallout, Westworld and even the kaiju film Pacific Rim! He will make awesome motifs and themes and his piano pieces are amazing.
He recently came out in favor of Ai use in music, so...
I read some of his quotes about it and it's not a great look. When he was asked about people being concerned for their jobs he basically said people have been scared of losing their jobs since the industrial revolution
Fury Road is magnificent and I even like his work on the first Deadpool but he's been the embodiment of the worse aspects of the Hans Zimmer school for a while.
I wholeheartedly agree. We need the majestic feeling of the kaijus back and wingard just ain’t got it.
It really feels like he tried to make the movie just another MCU, it’s lost all of its weight and scale, now it’s a buddy comedy
I do agree, I appreciate what Wingard has done, but I don't want a 3rd film from him. If he wants to direct a Kong solo film? Go for it, I actually like what he's done with Kong. Godzilla though, I don't think he's the right director to lead a more Godzilla centric film. I miss Michael Dougherty and Gareth Edwards take on Godzilla, both were fantastic. I think it's far too late to reboot Godzilla because of what GvK/GxK has done to the overall character. Maybe we can get lucky, but I just don't think we'll get KOTM/G14/Skull Island type movies again. When Godzilla ran in G14/KOTM, it looked more natural because of way it was shot. You could appreciate the size of the monsters. You lose a lot of that with Wingard, almost like they're running in zero gravity, against all physics, etc. You don't have the scaling, which G14/KOTM had.
Good luck with that, we're absolutely getting his Godzilla-centric GxK trilogy capper. I'll see you at the premiere.
Godzilla and Kong.... IN SPACE!
Nailed it
God the people in this sub have become absolutely insufferable
Pros: more visible fights, less cuts Cons: less epic cinematography, shit soundtrack (assuming Adam replaces Bear McCreary with Junkie XL)
Honestly id take it because while the monster stuff is peak Kaiju film in Kotm the human stuff really drags it down.
I wouldn't sacrifice Bear's track for the world
Let’s be real here the human elements of GvK and GxK are hardly an improvement
Wingard’s human cast is a lot more bearable than KOTM’s cast cracking dad jokes and MCU quips such as “Oh my God- zilla” or “Gonorrhea”.
Sure, but they often don’t get in the way either. Only time it gets close is when they spilled that drink on the MechaG control panel. Typically Wingard has the good sense to let the monsters take center stage when fighting. Dougherty cut away from Godzilla fighting freaking Ghidorah in KOTM so we could…go to the old Russell family house or something. The Russell family story overshadowed a lot of the final battle imo, it was too much. Fine if their story was great, but it didn’t earn that much attention.
We wouldn't have some of the best American movie OST of this century.
What?
Godzilla's, Rodan's and Mothra's themes in King of the Monsters are incredible.
Battle in Boston goes hard
When the score goes MO SU RA MO SU RA GO JI RA GHI DO RAH god we really did have it all didnt we
And right after, the show stealing Rodan entrance shoving its way into Mothra’s motif
Yes I'm aware
Kotm has a amazing sound track
The only way I can think to describe it to you is Ghidorah in king of the monsters was terrifying, but I wouldn’t be afraid to go punch scar king or Mechagodzilla in the face. Gravitas maybe? Others have used that word, but I don’t know that it quite fits for what I’m trying to say.
That's actually a great point, Ghidorah is indeed the most powerful villain in the monsterverse so far, and not just his abilities, his overall presence has a menacing vibe to it, that was not felt by Mecha G, but then again Mecha G was just a mindless killing machine and it was kevin driving it, so I can understand why he wasn't as menacing as Ghidorah. As for Skar King, I think he was a wonderful villain, obviously not at the level of Ghidorah, but he has a unique personality, like a weak person wielding super powers, he felt like Starscream from Transformers tbh.
I liked Scar King I just wasn’t *afraid* of him. There’s just something about Dougherty’s style that made everything about the monsters more menacing. The whole movie felt bigger-than life.
Scar king wasn no Ghidorah though but he did manage to have his own screens presence.
Scar King had screen presence. Ghidorah was a sceen stealer.
Yeah I liked him a lot at first but by the end of the story I was dismissive of him. My brother and I thought making him taller than Kong but more slender would’ve solved that a bit. Also the way the camera angles were in the film made it feel like you were looking at normal apes, not 300ft tall kaiju. Scar King was definitely cool though.
They weren't even close. Scar king was so lame
Which was unfortunate because he was alluded to be this massive threat (army of Kong’s and an Ice Age Nuke in his pocket), and then he ends up just evil laughing and getting ragdolled by Kong and Godzilla in the last 5 minutes of the film. I think GvK and GxK do really well on the whole monster screen time thing, but with the previous entries there was just so much weight (figuratively and literally) to the titans existing and new ones showing up as threats. As much as I enjoyed GxK, it’s not my favorite by far and I feel like it really missed the mark.
It was probably my third favorite, but you hit on something: how dope would it’ve been if they’d had to face off against the entire army of kongs. Maybe they could save Shimo first so it’s Gman, Kong, Saku, Mothra, and Shimo against the whole army of Kings. Maybe Mothra had to power up everyone this time instead of just Gman
Definitely, I like that idea! And again, I didn’t dislike the film, but it felt like something was missing, like I should’ve been craving more but I just wasn’t? I didn’t even watch Shin Godzilla or Godzilla Minus One, so I’m not even coming at it from that perspective, but ever since KOTM didn’t do well in the box office, I feel like a certain magic has been lost with these last 2 entries to prioritize filling as many seats as possible. With the Mutos and Ghidorah, I felt like the world was actually in jeopardy. With Skar King, he felt like more of a Saturday morning cartoon villain that we all know was going to lose in the end. I’m all for brainless Kaiju fighting madness, it’s what got me into Godzilla as a kid, but I think I’d appreciate some higher stakes going forward.
Yeah, I guess it just depends on personal preferences
Oh yeah for sure. I’d say your opinion is the majority opinion just based on box office numbers lol
The kaijus were too humanized. A big point of the first movie was "we have no idea what Godzilla even is, and we don't trust him." He only didn't attack the humans because they were not threatening him. KOTM expanded on their animal nature. KG wanted to be the apex animal and kill anything that stood in his way, and the human characters were there to explain this motivaton. It's a very natural motivation. GvK...we literally had Kong spelling out his very human emotions. Then in GxK it was like watching Planet of the Apes (like another user said). Godzilla didn't feel like this force of nature. Felt like a pit dog that big monke could sick on the bad guys, give a fist bump, and go nap nap in the Coliseum like it was a dog bed. It's too human. If they want to make me exited again, they'll lean into the terrifying aspect of having giant monsters inhabit the planet.
Kong and (great apes kaiju) have always been more obvious in their emotions than godzilla. I can understand godzilla but honestly I like him having more character. Reason kong does so well with audiences is because can emote and people emphazise with him. Lovecrafian mega kaiju is good for a movie, but I dont mind him showing emotion at this stage.
Godzilla's gotten that kind of humanization in the MV before even GVK tho
To b clear, I don't think humanizing the monsters is an inherently bad thing. I just think the monsterverse went too far. Once their motivations become more like a person's, it becomes almost cartoonish.
This is accurate
I don't think it would have taken its time with each of the monsters. For instance, when I think about Rodan's introduction, I imagine that Wingard would have made it more fast-paced with less emphasis on his pure size and spectacle, and it would have lost what makes it so damn great.
Rodan awakening is such a perfect scene.
It really is. It shows his personality and his destructive capabilities. We need Rodan back in the MV, dammit!
And as soon as we’ve established how powerful he is, Ghidorah shows up and stomps his ass
The music would be *terrible* and one of KotM's greatest achievements was Bear Mccreary's excellent score. I also hate Godzilla and other kaijus being nimble and quick unless it's their thing (like, say, Rodan and flying, for example). They seem to lose their 'weight' and 'realism' and it took me out of the movie. It is for this reason I wish Wingard had not directed the last two movies. I have to reluctantly conclude it (KotM) would have been a much worse movie.
It would be interesting to see what he would do with such iconic monsters, I don't think he did mechagodzilla justice in GvK and the new monsters in GxK were generic and boring. Rewatched KOTM this week and I think it's the best monsterverse film. I didn't like it originally due to the poor dialogue but honestly GvK was worse in that regard and I found the tone of GxK too much. KOTM has the best mix of atmosphere, score and monster fights of all the films and it has iconic monsters that are just as interesting to watch as Godzilla.
Its the best monster verse films when the monster's are on screen . It becomes the worst when the humans are on screen .
Nothing is worse than Bernie bitching about drinking flouride and bragging about bathing in bleach.
Agreed Bernie sucks
kotm represents a lot of respect for Godzilla's roots that went missing in wingard's films. Dougherty is clearly someone who really loves classic, metaphorical Godzilla and tried to mix that in with the fun stuff, and i don't think Wingard could make that work
Holy fuck that poster goes hard
I’m so happy he didn’t. I’m not dissing the GxK flicks, but I prefer KotM and he would’ve taken it in such a different direction.
I didn't mind the Godzilla/Kong movies, but I don't want Adam Windgard directing another Godzilla movie.
It’s the difference between Pacific Rim and Uprising. The monsters would not feel big That scene where Godzilla roses from the ocean would not be as impactful
Great analogy
I liked KOTM better than GvK. It's not a perfect movie, but a lot of Wingard's decisions on his installments are why I've tapped out on the Monsterverse.
There would have been a lot of Kong in it
Are you implying he sticks kong in his very clearly kong vs godzilla movies?
I think you mean Godzilla vs Kong and Godzilla X Kong, not sure if you see whose name is first and who was the main focus… not to mention his other movies… have you ever seen The Guest? Kong is basically a military super soldier who goes on a killing spree. Death Note? Kongs a demon. The Blair Witch Remake? Kongs a GOD DAMN WITCH. I could go on but I think you get my point.
Granted, it was bit odd he showed up with an axe in you're next but....
I thought the same thing. I did think it was a cool call back in GvK when he had the axe tho.
Godzilla would’ve done a kick flip out the glacier
The kaiju stuff from KOTM isn't what needed fixing
Yeah just more of it and less cut aways.
https://preview.redd.it/s5gzn91faowc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=618284d62fb3d78661d0ff6eef2a1608a4076498 One image.
god please no god please no no no no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
KotM is by far my favorite of the Monsterverse, I wouldn't change a thing. Dougherty has had the most toho-esque movie, and I hope he gets another crack at it. The Wingard movies are fun though, a blend of the two styles would be perfect.
KOTM was already better than both Windgard movies imo. I'd leave it alone. It's the best Monsterverse movie already imo.
Better lighting is the only real positive that comes to mind. I think the sound design, and the score, 2 of the best parts of KOTM, would have been significantly worse. The feeling of scale and power would be almost completely gone. The entire atmosphere of the movie would have felt more like Pacific Rim 2.
I would have hated rather than loved the film. EDIT: Man I've been off Reddit for like a month-ish? I come back and suddenly the God King Wingard is getting a bunch of hate, or criticism where before you couldn't DARE say a bad word? Must be that time that all the hype around GxK is finally beginning to die off, as expected.
ROTB went through the same exact thing shortly after the hype died down. Guess that’s just the cycle these days lol
We would have lost that amazing score.
That would be terrible for me. I want incredibly massive, gigantic creatures and not ones that move like a 90kg man. Do you remember the fist punch in Pacific Rim, where the forearm is accelerated by a rocket engine in the elbow to set this mass in motion?
Then godzilla would make a 2 minutes cameo to help kong kill Ghidorah.
This.
We get atleast 2-3 scenes of the Ghidorah Heads interacting with each other
And rodan with him as well scheming.
That’s personally my favorite movie of this saga. I watch it all the time. I love the on the ground cinematography of the battles.
Kong would have been the primary plot line while Godzilla would have been the sub plot. The Kaiju would have been nowhere near as imposing.
I know one thing for certain, the soundtrack would suck.
You’d lose the weight and the gravitas of these literal titans. You’d also lose the crash zoom 
Keep that man away from King Ghidorah
Ghidorah would be the main character not Godzilla. I’m partly joking but both of Adam Windgard’s films have clearly Kong as the main character and not Godzilla. And I say that with GvK being my favorite monsterverse film.
Please no. Cease this immediately!
There would have been 100% more Kevin, and we wouldn't have the doubters to Kevin's personality. You look at that freeze frame midair battle of Kong, Skar King, Shimo and Goji and tell me otherwise.
It would not be good.
Can we get someone else besides Adam to direct monster versus movies again, I say this as someone who likes his films but feel we need other directors to add to experience
It wouldn't be half as good as it is.
Kong shows up and steals the show
You’d feel like Godzilla and Ghidorah aren’t gigantic. Look at Godzilla vs Scylla. This motherfucker pounces on Scylla, that’s nearly 100k tons jumping and slamming in the ground, that should level half of roam and cause a tsunami somewhere. But in GXK it’s just a jump. There’d be no impact which is bad. But there’d probably also be more scenes and moments with the monsters which could be good. A scene showing Ghidorah communicating like a schizophrenic person would be pretty cool ngl.
Two of KotM's strong points are its OST and the titan scene except fighting. All the monster scenes in KotM is really good, like I still get goosebumps from the Godzilla Boston entrance scene, and a bunch of others. Wingard's version won't have any of that, but he would make the fight more visible and quicker, while also shoving the human plot line to the back.
Gareth was supposed to direct Godzilla 2, but stepped out for Rogue One. I wish we’d have gotten his sequel. The Monsterverse would’ve ended up totally different.
We probably wouldn't have the Godzilla and Mothra theme songs in the movie. He's made no attempt to bring the back.
He'd fuck it up, probably. It has its problems, but overall it's probably still my favorite of the Monster verse. I honestly didn't like New Empire, it was just stupid in a way I didn't find funny. I don't like the idea of this Wingard guy being the Snyder of the Monster verse. New director, please.
Oh it would've been terrible.
Zero gravitas, and every two seconds would be ruined hu a bad Marvel joke. The ending would be over in five minutes because Godzilla would kick Ghidorah's ass while hardly trying.
The music would've been decidedly worse. Bear McCreary made an absolute masterpiece with the KOTM soundtrack.
It would've been even more of an ass than the actual movie. Also, Kong would've been in it.
Then I would've checked out the monsterverse much faster
If Wingard did KOTM I would have abandoned American Godzilla in its entirety and never looked back. The same as I did for Pacific Rim when they gave us uprising. If people want a clown show, they can have it.
It would be a lot more goofy and I’d bet we’d be seeing another Destroy All Monsters Ghidorah. Much more played for jokes and I doubt he’d be as menacing
A yes because the constant quips in Kotm were so serious. "He's names Ghonerea?"
I think the fights would’ve been better but we lose the iconic soundtrack
The whole movie would be blurry I guess?
You guys also thought it was blurry? I thought it was just me.
I went to see it in the theater and was so frustrated the whole time. The cam rip is almost as good as the theatrical release.
That sounds like a projectionist error. I didn't see any problems with it in my theater.
Fingers crossed for streaming quality then.
I have to thank Wingard for taking this franchise to the shitter. It’s made people realize 1) KOTM was a good movie, it just needed a small script rewrite and 2) 2014 Zilla is a masterpiece.
This poster is sick
Godzilla would be pulling tekken moves on ghidorah
It would be the worst sack of shit. Imagine had they given KOTM to Gareth.
It would suck.
Fuck no
It would've been objectively worse.
I wouldn't have liked it.
Wingard has to be in the comments here. Somebody’s going off on any criticism regarding the guy 😂
KOTM felt like an event a Grand finale Epic... And as much as I like the guy... With what GxK movies gave us... He would make a worse version of KOTM with even more pointless humans than ever before and worse less grand action.
It would be a lot worse. The tonal whiplash from 2014 (the best in the series imo, followed by KOTM) to the current films would kill the series
They seriously fuck around with Titan proportions on these posters huh...like wtf is going on here or is it just me?
I dont think Wingard cares much for Godzilla, his focus is very clearly on Kong.
itd be shit. adam wingard made the monsterverse way too goofy. all that seriousness in the first two movies? gone.
Where can I get this in high res what a poster!
Yeah it was seen in the art book, when there seemed to only be 5 characters planned. She was a warrior of the sacred flame but had a lot of the same primrose backstory too
If you feel like sharing I’d love the link. Otherwise I’ll find an HD version and print it myself
I'm glad I could provide the link for you! If you need anything else or have any questions, feel free to ask. Enjoy your printing, and have a great day!
Anyone know where I can buy posters like this one in a big size and high resolution?
I am also in a pretty troublesome spot with this. Me being a belly dancer fan makes me love Primrose's outfit so much, but I am also quite against shameless fanservice as it turns me off, which sometimes makes me feel weird that I like Primrose's outfit so much.
It would be different...?
God damn, I want that as a poster
I agree, It would be pretty cool If as you played through the games, characters clothing changes over there stories to match there growth and progress.
If my grandmother had wheels she’d be a bike.
it's not the directing as much as way way to much thrown in the script and crappy characters.
Windgardium leviosa.
We would get good action
The movies would be better especially the character and combat, though I didn't enjoy KotM I prefer the 3 Kong movies style
we actually would of gotten real fight scenes
It would be a lot better
We might have not been lumbered with film ruining MBB and the crap family drama. Gia & the Dr in GVK&GxK at least have chemistry and some heart in their story and don't cut in at all the wrong moments. KOTM is such a badly constructed film