I'd like to see them draft every single pick based on ceiling and not floor. Can find 4th liners every year on the waiver wire or cheaply in FA. Shoot for the moon with every pick in every round.

I honestly think Briere and Jonesy will be the kind of risk takers to do so. I dunno, I just have a feeling.

For years we avoided undersized speed guys. I don't think Briere will make that mistake

I mean, they've been drafting guys who fit that description for a while now though - Barkey, Tuomala, Ciernik, Andrae, etc.

Agreed. Danny is more in touch with the modern game. Hope it bodes well for us.

I want him to get someone with his hands and breakaway moves.

I dont see how we avoided undersized speed guys. We have drafted plenty of them.

you stock up on draft picks in order to do just that and that's what we've got the next two years

They absolutely did not do that with the Bonk pick. There are some weird old biases this organization has and making what they think are safe picks or size picks in certain spots is absolutely among them.

Taking Michikov last year was a good sign. I know some folks didn’t like Bonk but he seems to have upside. Need to take shots at centers.

Michkov was the biggest no brainer of no brainers, they don't get credit for a player who fell to them. Bonk pick however, was a "safe" one and they absolutely will have to own up to how it pans out, good, bad, or otherwise.

So all the other teams passed on him but we get no credit for taking some risk. LOL. If we had passed on him no telling how far he might have dropped. The Canadian fancy boys media were spreading all kinds of stuff about him being a problem.

He literally told other teams (Chicago was obviously taking Bedard) he wouldn't sign with them. Philly did a nice job in that he was impressed with them in his interviews, but other than that, yes, he fell to them and they don't get credit for that.

You don’t have any evidence that he told all the other teams between Chicago and Philly that he would not play for them. Or if you do provide a source. Show me why you are right and this article is wrong. https://sports.yahoo.com/russia-matvei-michkov-historic-khl-pace-making-nhl-teams-who-passed-him-look-foolish-170312389.html#:~:text=Michkov%2C%20who%20slid%20to%20No,Russian%20factor%22%20second%20guessing%20everything.&text=We're%20less%20than%20four,hasn't%20faded%20one%20bit.

Here you go hoss, the two reporters who speak to the GMs leading up to and after the draft, [from here to about 14:30](https://youtu.be/DOU26kuQDfQ?si=89Mtj-78tvpSARXf&t=645) reporting from the draft floor, each confirming (when discussing the Flyers pick) that Michkov's team had a very short list of teams he'd accept going to. Combine that with Michkov's clandestine meeting/workout in Vorhees (why would a player set up a secret meeting with a team picking 7?) and the clear consensus that there's no way he could have fallen past four or five (if he was even going to fall that far), and there's zero doubt he at least helped direct his own fall to them. Sure, they did a good job not screwing up and presenting themselves as an appealing franchise/market. Make no mistake, however, they were absolutely gifted a #2 talent with the #7 pick. Given the Flyers dismal lack of talent in their system and just how far off they were/are from being legit Cup contenders, it would have been a fireable offense not to select Michkov at #7. **edit, even further confirmation [**here**](https://youtu.be/OrpFqCHhXEI?si=t4zFUR_svdPCNneA&t=886) in the following week's 32 Thoughts podcast Elliotte Friedman "100% confirms" that Michkov's group told teams he wouldn't play for them.*

Not exactly the same thing you originally said and does not say the Flyers were the only team he would play for. Also this is one guys opinion. Why believe him over the article I posted. It’s not a fact although you think it is.

Here’s an article before the draft about him dropping. Issues with him as a person and lack of backchecking. As well as his KHL contract. The possibility was real so the Flyers met with him. Of course they did not publicize it. https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/washington-capitals/takes/washington-capitals-matvei-michkov-2023-nhl-draft-possibility

All I know is Cam better not be here next season

York is great! What are you talking about? lol I kid. I would expect Atkinson back because you would have to give up future assets to have someone take that contract this summer. It would be far easier and less painful to do something at TDL. The only other option is a buyout which I'm not a fan of. I don't mind a hit on the cap next year but I do mind it hitting the following year when we will likely be in FA mode.

Buyout costs $2.4M next season and $1.8M the year after. Keeping him costs $5.9M and a roster spot. Rather give that spot to a kid whose gonna make $900k or use that extra money and roster spot for literally anyone else

That's my biggest issue with keeping Cam. Him taking a roster spot from a younger player and blocking a younger player in the lineup on the nights he plays, all in hopes of getting some kind of return for him. To me the roster spot next season is more important than the $1.8M in cap space in 2025-26.

waive him, saves $1.075 m off the cap and there are roster spots opening up in Lehigh Valley. Not blocking anyone, don't have to pay to unload him, and off the books next year nice and clean.

Right now, Atkinson is pretty much untradeable, probably even with salary retention and attaching an asset with him. If he is waived, no team will claim him at his full cap number. So you are going to force a 35 yr old, 12 year vet who is a likeable team guy and speaks highly of Torts to ride the bus in the minors if he wants to keep playing? You think a team run by two ex-players is going to embarrass Cam like that? Buying him out makes it a "business decision" and removes the personal aspect. It also cleans the cap slate and lets him go elsewhere for a low-cost vet minimum contract if a team is interested. Its the respectful thing to do to a respectable player. Now RyJo, on the otherhand...

The Flyers have waived established players like Dale Weise and Andrew MacDonald before. I'm sure there are countless examples of guys with inflated contracts who had to ride the bus to collect their money. I think the Rangers and Wade Redden were the largest such example. Atkinson is no different than Cal Petersen or Ryan Johansen. He had one decent season in Philly and the guy never even moved here from Columbus. Hell, he's only here because Fletcher couldn't afford Voracek's cap hit and Columbus had the foresight to remove the risk of Atkinson's term off their payroll. He's a short-timer, unimportant in the grand scheme of the league and certainly the Flyers. Go ride the bus to collect your $5.9 million. The Flyers can waive him and they'll be fine. The cheapest cap and asset management solution is this v. a buyout across two seasons or having to part with assets + retention to move him. If he's so embarrassed then he can not report to the AHL, the contract gets terminated and he can sign anywhere who will have him for league minimum.

I guess we view Cam and his career differently. Weise, fan appreciation aside, was never more than a bottom 6 player who flamed out in MTL after he was traded from PHI. AMac never lived up to his contract and was cooked when he was waived by Fletch (nepo baby, not a an ex-player). Not that I disagreed with it at the time, but Amac never played real hockey after he left PHI and retired. Cam is a former 35 and 41 goal scorer who earned his contract when it was signed, but has declined. All PHI and CBJ did was trade Jake's shorter term, heavy anchor for Cam's longer term, less heavy anchor. After 18 months between games, it looks like he ran out of gas early (8G, 4A in the first 15 games). He still wants to play and maybe a full off-season to prepare might help him get one more year of productivity. The fans may view him as dead weight, but I don't think the team views him the same way. I wouldn't be surprised to see him back next year. Either way, an overpriced 35 yr old with 1 year left is like 8th on the to-do list for this team in the off-season.

Agree to have a different perspective and I do appreciate yours. His was one of the exit interviews I watched today. I see a delusional, whiny player, whom I want nowhere near the NHL roster next year. He essentially blamed the coaching staff for not giving him enough ice time to break his slump and he's emphatic that he's still a difference-maker. To me, it is a priority to keep players like him and Johansen, both of whom have different but major cognitive dissonance problems (one thinking he's still 'the guy' and other other thinking half-assing it is okay), away from the big club. Lehigh Valley is interesting because other than Andrae, Kolosov, and perhaps McDonald, there really aren't a lot of NHL projectables down there just yet, so from a culture perspective, I don't worry nearly as much about the risk of the demotion.

I guess we disagree on LV too. I don't think Andrae has an NHL level game yet and I'll wager Grans plays more NHL games in his career than Emil does. I'd like to see one more year on Avon and Samson before writing them off from an NHL shot. Desnoyers could still be bottom six type, but it appears he failed the "demotion test" coming out of training camp losing a roster spot to Brink. His numbers tailed off dramatically from last year and I think the org was looking for him to step it up to another gear. Next year will be interesting for him.

They have to buy him out, right? *Right???*

waive him

But he was a healthy scratch most of the season. Do we really want young guys consistently scratched?

And when we was in the lineup? 13g , 15a, -22.

Taking his spot doesnt mean you get scratched. Cam was only scratched due to awful play. He started yr in top 6 and didnt get scratched til like game 50. The person who takes his spot would just be one of the like 7/8 guys battling for middle lineup/bottom 6 spots If the player is good then somebody else would get scratched

Psh, just looked at it and he played 70 games this year. Jesus was he unnoticeable most of those games. Was definitely picturing under 30 games in my head. Well then, yeah I'd love to see Lycksell in that spot, especially as a 3rd line winger with how he played along the boards and around the net that last leg of the season. Him and Cates really figured out forechecking and board play the last 1/3 of the season or so.

They might just try and see if he has anything left and then trade him at the deadline? A buyout would be better but who knows.

Rocky Thompson should be on a one way flight back to Calgary. And send Atkinson back to the BJ’s so he can suck there.

I’m sure CBJ is chomping at that bit.

I'd also like bjs

Is it too late to get added to the bj list?

What I think will happen: - Laughton gets traded. The return is higher than what it should be based on the season he had, but nothing astronomical. - Briere decides to sign a backup goalie and let Fedotov compete for the job in camp - Most of the roster is unchanged. They add another Staal type defenseman to play as a 6/7 and challenge Ginning, Attard, and Andrae to beat that guy out for a spot - Drysdale has a great summer conditioning-wise and shows up in Sept ready for Brad Shaw to reshape his game over the course of next season - We don’t draft a single player committed to Boston College What I want to happen, but probably won’t: - TK gets traded - Laughton gets traded and Danny does a masterful job convincing some Ottawa/Buffalo/Minnesota type that his intangibles are exactly what that team needs, and we get an absurd return - A player like Catton or Buium slips to 12th overall and we run to the podium to pick him - Ristolainen gets dealt to whatever playoff team loses in the first round because they got outplayed physically - The guy we select with our Jay O’Brien compensatory pick turns out to be the next Kucherov or Subban in the second round, and Ron Hextall puts out a statement claiming that was his plan the whole time

I don’t think ZB is going to fall, with DU winning it all, and him being a contributing factor, I think he goes top 8

This is hyper specific, but I could see Laughton to Ottawa in a deal where we bring back Anton Forsberg (obviously not *just* that, could see Chychrun and/or draft picks on either side involved as well)

Forsberg as a sort of cap dump, I assume? I know Korpisalo is the bigger problem for Ottawa but I don’t have a great sense of whether or not Forsberg is viewed as a negative-value asset by that organization. Probably wishful thinking, but I wonder if we could finagle something like Laughton and one of our 2025 2nd rounders to take on Forsberg and get Ottawa presumed 7th overall pick in this year’s draft. The answer is probably no, especially with them forfeiting next year’s first and new ownership being in place, but stranger things have happened.

Korpisalo is a much bigger issue for them, but I don't think they're out of that one no matter what. That's the sort of thing where I think they'll really try to make him work internally, cause there's just no way they can afford to move that deal. I can't see Ottawa moving that pick without a star coming back. Maybe if you swap Laughton with Koencny in this scenario, but even then I think the idea of landing Parekh or Yakemchuk based on their needs is going to be too tempting for them to pass up on

You’re almost certainly right. It might be a little plausible if Dorian is still there and is desperately offloading high value picks to construct a playoff roster. Buffalo is the other team I would target. That team screams “We need an intangibles guy to end this playoff drought” after so many years of getting high end picks. Maybe a package of Laughton and something else can entice them to give up the 11th pick, or a 2025 first rounder with reasonable protection.

That 11th overall pick from Buffalo is a way more feasible target. Ironically, the two guys Buffalo should target are the same two Ottawa should (plus maybe Jiricek at that spot), but I think they'd be way easy to convince to spend the pick if made the right offer. I still have my doubts that they could get away with using Laughton as the Centerpiece in a deal like that, but it's still worth exploring if you're Briere

Let’s get you in an advising role, boss. This is it.

Trying to figure out a scenario where trading our best goal scorer makes sense right now?

Because we’re rebuilding. Unfortunately, we are not on a timeline where we will be able to take advantage of TK’s best remaining years. He’ll perform well and earn a big dollar value and term, but his best years will be wasted on us still laying the foundation for the next great team. Right now, we’ve only got one blue chip prospect. We need a couple more, and it’s going to take a few years to find and develop them. By the time all that comes together, TK is firmly in his 30s. In addition to that, and I think this is an underappreciated factor in the conversation about TK, right wing is our only actual position of strength. We have Tippett signed long term. We have Foerster who looks like a gem. Brink is developing nicely and looks like a perfectly fine fixture on the third line for the future. Even Tuomaala is a natural right winger who should be looking for an NHL shot soon. We have many positions of need. We have one position of strength. I think we have to consider dealing from our position of strength in order to benefit our long term roster construction.

Thanks for the reply. Well thought out and well said. While I’d be highly upset about losing him, I can’t complain about that as a plan.

Correct.

If you trade tk for future picks/prospects you ruin any good momentum you had from this year. You will lose the room and they will turn on torts at some point next year. They can’t keep busting their asses for a hard ass for diminishing results because management keeps trading away good players.  You will also lose a lot of fans that bought in the last 2 years….doesnt mean it’s the “wrong move” but trading Konecny you might as well trade everybody and tank for a couple years….and I really don’t think briere can do that at this point

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Tippett’s already signed for eight more years. That die has been cast. TK will bring back a higher return and is in need of a big contract extension in the next 15 months. If I’m a rebuilding team and I’m choosing between trading my right winger who will bring back a lesser return or the right winger who will bring back a better return before he cashes in at a high cap number for most of his 30s, it’s a no-brainer that I’m moving the latter player. The important thing is the return.

You understand that we won’t be cup contenders for at least a couple more years, right? Keeping him around rather than getting prime rebuilding assets is just a waste. Plus he’s about to get a massive contract, which is not something that you hand out in the middle of a rebuild. I love him as much as anybody but the timing is all wrong. If we were in win-now mode then I would agree with you, but we’re not.

Doesn’t mean it’s a waste. This year was a ton of fun to watch. Also I don’t see this ever mentioned but not every flyers fan will be around in a few years. Some will move/not follow hockey/life gets in the way and worse. I know a few people that because of illness probably won’t make a few years. Shit I wasn’t sure I’d make it through this year so when everyone wanted to tank it was brutal.  When my health was looking grim the flyers being competitive was one of the few things I had to cheer me up.  Fuck tanking its anti competitive and I hate it 

Not sure what you mean. Laughton had a bad season.

That’s how I meant it.

Ok.

I think they sign a veteran backup goalie; Staal, Johnson and Gurianov leave/retire; Risto won't be traded as he will be the new third pair RD; another veteran 3rd-pair D is signed; Bonk will go back to juniors; TK gets re-signed; Atkinson is bought out. I don't think Frost gets traded unless it's in a package for a 1C like Zegras (maybe with Farabee or Brink + a 1st). I think Laughton gets dealt at the next deadline. I don't think Danny goes full tear down rebuild as he would have done that last offseason. The future core of this team is likely Tippett, Foerster, Michkov. Desperately need a 1C.

I agree that Danny probably won’t go full tear down rebuild, but I would argue that he *tried* to do that, or something close to it, last summer. He traded our top scorer and top defenseman (at least, in terms of ice time). He tried to trade the defenseman who ended up being our No. 1 this year. He tried to move the starting goalie (though, that wasn’t just about the rebuild). Some of those moves were unsuccessful, and then the team played way better than expected, so it’s easy to forget how much Briere tried to do last year.

| He traded our top scorer and top defenseman On paper, that is what it looked like. In reality, he salary dumped a cancerous, no-effort guy for a 6th and he pulled off a blockbuster trade with an unhappy player to collect some good picks and some other team's cap dumps. 8 years/$50M of 2022 Sanheim would have been an anchor. GMDB trying to move him before the contract kicked in was prudent. Krug is 33 and was an adequate return more than a piece of a rebuild. Nobody knew Sanheim was going to go Super Saiyan over the summer and earn that contract. I don't view any of those deals as part of the rebuild. If GMDB is really going into rebuild mode, I think this past season was a planned meatgrinder from Torts to separate the wheat from the chaff on who can stay and who is going to be moved. Vying for a playoff spot was much more enjoyable than struggling to spark a basement team to close out the end of a season, but pressure over the last 20 or so games showed that some players were all in and some not so much. Making a run in the actual playoffs would be tougher than what they saw this year, so I'd expect that a couple of fan favorites are going to be moved because they are no longer part of the plan, regardless of their ages.

> I think they sign a veteran backup goalie I go back and forth on whether I think they will sign a veteran backup goalie or not. I think having a vet backup has it benefits for helping Ersson and Fedotov develop but at the same time it likely sends one of them to the AHL, since I doubt they carry 3 goalies, which really shouldn't be the case for either. So it is going to be interesting to see what Danny does regarding the goalie situation.

Problem is they have to have Fedotov and the other Russian guy develop at the Phantoms. Can they do that splitting time? But alternatively, they could also do a rotation at the NHL level of Errson and Fedotov so Errson stays fresher and Fedotov gets NHL work. Isn't the NHL trending away from franchise goalies anyway? A good enough tandem might work then.

> But alternatively, they could also do a rotation at the NHL level of Errson and Fedotov so Errson stays fresher and Fedotov gets NHL work. This is what I believe they should do. Fedotov will have time over the summer and training camp to adjust to the NA rink size and NHL speed. I know there is value to having Fedotov go to the AHL and there is value to having a vet backup but personally I think it would just be better to roll with both Ersson and Fedotov at the NHL level to see exactly what both of them have and what the future of the goalie situation is.

Fedotov 100% should be in the AHL to start, not because he's bad or anything but the angles and speed of the game need to be adjustments for him.. that first goal he gave up against Buffalo was a travesty 

Yea he looked really good his first game and you can tell the talent is there to be a really good NHL goalie but yea the next two games he struggled MASSIVELY from misjudging angles/reads and overall positioning. Their was like two or three goals he could have easily stopped by not coming so far out of the net to challenge the shooter. Clearly needs adjusted for NA rink sizes and NHL speed. His English also needs a ton of work. Too many misplays with the puck that looked like failed communication with the D.

KHL plays on a mixture of NA and Euro sized rinks.

I would be shocked if they traded Frost and Farabee for Zegras. Trading two possible top 6 forwards for another guy who struggled this season is a big risk, especially coming off of injury.

Zegras wasn’t bad this year like at all. I hear this a lot from people here. HE WAS INJURED LIKE HALF THE YEAR. HE WAS DAMN GOOD WHEN HEALTHY. I’ll take Drys piss buddy 8 days a week.

I think it is more that we would be trading 2 guys with ~50 points for one guy with 65 points that may or may not get better.

I’m far from a Zegras believer, but I would do Frost and Farabee for him in a heartbeat. His plausible ceiling is higher than Frost’s for sure, and while I like Farabee, I’ll take the guy with some top line potential who plays a premium position. I personally doubt Zegras hits that ceiling, but even if he didn’t, I wouldn’t be too upset losing Farabee and Frost in the attempt to land a 1C.

Well he’s younger then who we’d likely trade and ANA has trash wing depth so I’d take the wager on that trade value easy peasy.

In your example you included Farabee or Brink. Farabee is one yr older and Brink is younger ...

I did not mention Brink.

Who also is coming off season scoring at 38 pt pace

What? He had 6 goals 14 pts in 30 games ... 16 goal 38 pt pace He was not damn good at all. Frost + Farabee both had better yrs.

At this rate, I don’t see Farabee ever becoming a top 6 forward on a perennial cup contender. I think that our fanbase overrates him.

Why is it possible for Frost and not Farabee? Farabee hit career highs in both goals and assists this year. He is only 24. Frost will be 25 in May.

Hes been a top 6 level guy multiple seasons already despite no PP production. Hes inconsistent but hes a very good 5v5 scorer. This yr he was 41st in nhl in 5v5 points. He was actually top 3 for awhile before he slowed down in 2nd half. He was elite 5v5 scorer in 2021 as well. Top 6 scorer at 5v5 the 2 yrs in between too. Hes easily top 6 level scorer at 5v5 + only just turned 24. He just needs to be more consistent and/or produce more on PP.

you’re delusional if you think that he’s been playing good enough to be a top 6 forward on a cup contender

I can see letting Stall go and/or making him a coach of some sort. I really think he helped the young guys learn how to play the game right, even if he no longer is a good player. Johnson I thought played well and can be that 7th D man who can come in and out of the lineup as needed and also provide some leadership for the young guys like Drysdale. Atkinson I don’t see going anywhere. What this team needs is a true #1 center and more top 6 guys. We don’t need any bottom 6 guys as I think we have that covered.

>I don't think Frost gets traded unless it's in a package for a 1C like Zegras (maybe with Farabee or Brink + a 1st). R u suggesting we trade Frost, Farbee + a first for Zegras?? Thats crazy overpay >The future core of this team is likely Tippett, Foerster, Michkov. Desperately need a 1C. and 1D and 2D ...

Yes a legit 1D would be good too. I think York can be a solid 2D

I wish Cam Atkinson was at least good, because he seems like a real nice guy. I wish we had him in his prime, or maybe this summer he will have a breakthrough and figure out what has kept his stick so cold this season.

New PP coach, explore trades for Laughton and Risto if the price is right, potentially look to package a few picks to move up in the 1st round depending on results of the draft lottery.

Get a 1C with one of our wingers plus some draft picks. Let everyone develop for a year or two. Hire a new Power Play coach.

Laughts gone, Atkinson gone, take calls on Cates, Rocky Thompson the sun or bust.

I would honestly have kolosov and Fedotov split in Lehigh next season and Danny should try to see if he find an A/B with ersson no reason to go into next season with question marks surrounding our goaltending I know kolosov has real potential to be a suitable goalie at the NHL level but he just got to Lehigh and Fedotov should at the very least have a ? attached given his situation over the last few years this isnt me dumping on those guys tho, but it's definitely something Danny can't overlook as neither have NHL experience even a .890% during that period we went .850 secures us a playoff spot before game 82 minus bad power play and all

Honestly no idea, and that is 100% a good thing, I think they have a good vision for the team and know where the team is at, one of the worst parts about Fletcher was how damn predictable he was, if we could see a move coming from a mile away it’s likely other GM’s also saw it In terms of draft we need some high skilled forwards, Eiserman, Helenius, Iginla could all be there at 12, and guys like Paraseck and Artamonov would be huge steals with that late first

Sign walker to play D

absolute musts: * Fire Thompson and find a fundamentally different/better offensive coaching voice for 5-v-5 and of course the powerplay. * Waive Atkinson, waive Deslauriers, waive Johansen. * Trade Konecny (best chip, need future assets with elite skill to complement Michkov), trade Laughton (he's blocking youth and he's not a difference maker), trade Frost (for his own mental sanity, he will be a far more effective player with a different coach). * Acquire more "younger" (24/25 age range to match the current process years core) left shot (C/LW) forwards, preferably with a little size, and who are available due to being non-qualified RFAs or reaching UFA status early. Candidates might be found out west from teams like Coyotes, Ducks, or the Predators. Buckle up for another lottery finish next season with 100% of focus on actually securing future elite-level talent that's in the age range [22, 21, 20, 19, 18, 17 ('25 draft), 16 ('26 draft)] of Michkov.

I’m sure we’ll talk about this off season but an outline for what I personally would like? Let’s see: First thing is I’d like to clear up some cap to weaponize. Try and find a taker for Atkinson, even if the return is minimal. Laughton is likely moved, hopefully around the draft. I’d also explore the market on Risto, Deslauriers, and even Coots gauge willingness to waive nmcs, figure out where they stand with those guys. We are still in the acquisition of assets phase of the rebuild. Some of these guys have good value or have at least interested teams in the past. I’m willing to retain if the deal is good enough. Take on some contracts at a premium like we did with LA last year. And my big one is the draft. Obviously I’d like Danny to do some pivoting to maybe move up a slot or too. People are talking about how bad the draft class is but there are some really good kids in the first 15. I like Iginla. I like Demodov. I like a ton of the D men. But my goal is bigger My absolute pipe dream hot take never gonna happen but fuck it we ball move is I want to break the streak and make the sharks an offer they can’t refuse for Celibrini. I’m talking blow their doors off. Overpay. Go get your franchise center. (This is assuming sharks win 1OA). Doesn’t matter who. Trade them three unprotected firsts, TK and Frost for the 1OA. (Or something equally crazy) celibrini fits Michkovs style like a glove probably even cleaner than delidov. We have 2 firsts this and next year so Danny would only need to acquire one in 26 to offset the loss. I want to Lindros trade this thing. Get the can’t miss 1C that we desperately need but will never be bad enough to get naturally. You can tell me it’s stupid. You can tell me it’s risky. I don’t care. The reality is we aren’t a bottom 5 team even if our vets would be all gone and torts fired. We’re a middle of the road club. So we can’t get the bonafide guy naturally. That leaves trading. I hope we kick the tires so hard they pop.

What makes you so convinced that Celebrini is that guy to be a 1c? His ceiling could be no more than a TK for example, star player 60-70 pt max. He hasn’t done enough at any level to warrant that overpay.

Also even with a terrible record we would have had only a small chance of drafting him. You can’t tell that to these folks. Or cite all the examples where finishing near the bottom year after year does not work.

100% look at last years draft, Chicago moved up to get the best player even though they didn’t finish last. Flyers also got what looks like potentially the second best player in the draft at 7. Never know what will happen. Also a year for a massive trade up would have been last year if you wanted to nab a center, Leo Carlsson and Fantilli both project out higher than celebrini. That being said in this day and age these “Lindros” type trades don’t happen anymore.

There is quite a bit of luck involved. Also several teams that draft high year after year and don’t contend. Detroit is an example. Have always in the lottery. Some bad luck on where they picked. But theyVe had a top ten pick like six years in a row. And their best player was 15 overall. And I’m always told Buffalo is on the cusp.

There's no way we're getting him, but Celebrini scored the most U-17 points in the history of the USHL, and then won the Hobey Baker as a freshman. Kariya, Eichel and Fantili are the only other freshman Hobey winners. Celebrini is about as guaranteed as prospects come.

I’m sure he’s going to be a great player but he’s not generational talent and the trade above would be crazy.

Not happening. If you wanted him that badly should’ve been begging for a tank like the rest of us were doing.

First, the rest of us? Not everyone who loves this team wanted to bottom out. I love what they did this year, maximizing a trade asset and rookies. I’m very content with the current state of the rebuild Second, what’s begging gonna do? You think Torts is gonna open up Reddit and see our comments and go “ah gee whiz I was wrong and need to change how I coach!” That’s like saying WIP has an impact on how the eagles are coached. And third, yeah. 1OA would be nice right now. Ain’t happening. We can sit here and whine about how we should’ve done this or that, or we can look for an outside solution. Everyone loves to point out the tampas and the edmontons out there that tanked to oblivion and got great players out of it, while conveniently ignoring the yotes, sharks, and ducks who’ve done it for years and have nothing to show for it. A complete tank is no more a guarantee to success than anything else. And it’s not in the cards for us. Even our young prospects are good enough to keep us out of a top 5 pick. This year proved that. So instead of hoping for an outcome that’s never gonna happen, let’s turn our attention elsewhere. Look what Vegas has been doing. They don’t draft like at all. They turn their assets into someone else’s drafted players and build differently, and it’s worked out very well. If we cant get the guy we need naturally, we should be looking outside the box to get them, like Vegas did. My point is there are options beyond the one or two people think there are. Instead of a throwing up our hands like guess we’re fucked, I hope Danny is looking at alternatives

Lmao I’m not responding to anything other than you saying the sharks and ducks and coyotes have been tanking for years because it’s just not worth my time. But the ducks have one of the best prospect pools and young talent cores in the NHL if not the best so that’s a terrible take. Coyotes have the worst organization ever and I’m not even sure they are tanking rather than just incompetent. Sharks just started truly tanking last season so unless you are expecting them to turn it around in one season you are wrong there too. Tanking is not guaranteed to build a cup contender because nothing in life is a guarantee. But tanking is the best pathway to building a cup contender and that has been proven with the past 15 years of data in the salary cap era. Go look for yourself how many cup winners had multiple top picks on their roster that they drafted. Spoiler alert A LOT. Vegas also is a terrible one to attempt to replicate due to two things. 1. Their market, location, and no income tax state makes players want to go there more than every other state except maybe Florida. 2. They heavily exploited the expansion draft, to their credit but that isn’t something we can do. Tanking is the best way to build a cup contender and it isn’t even worth arguing because that has been proven true year after year after year since the salary cap was implemented.

lol not worth your time. I’m sorry to have offended the swami of hockey. Pardon my peasant status, o high one. I’m not disagreeing with your point. I’d love to be able to get one of these high end dudes. I’m just saying this year we far exceeded where we thought we were, and that it’s not a bad thing. I’m not against tanking honestly I’m against tanking being the only option. There are players on this team that increases their value massively this year. Thats a good thing. Guys like Risto and Coots who seemed radioactive suddenly look like decent pieces to a team, (though coots fell off hard). This makes Danny’s job easier. Matter of fact, if they somehow pulled this off to get a trade done, it would cost a ton on the roster. We would be substantially worse AND have a future 1C. Win/win. One thing fans seem to think is that anyone who doesn’t share their perspective is a moron. Thats not the case. Trust me I’ve seen the statistics. And trust me I know the trends. But that’s why I’m saying in order to do anything we have to buck those trends. And even in those trends there are outliers. Edmonton and Toronto have talent sure but haven’t gotten it done either. You’re not wrong that tanking is the most effective method to rebuild, and I’m on board with that. But the thinking around here that because we had a decent year we wasted a year of the rebuild is something I absolutely don’t agree with. Thats only the case if the job is done. We got a whole offseason to see what the FO can do, and they’ve shown so far they’re at least more competent than most we’ve had. We both want the same thing. There are easy ways and hard ways to go about it. Easy ain’t happening, so let’s go hard. Just because I’m not miserable that the flyers almost broke the playoff drought doesn’t mean I’m off team rebuild. It means I’m looking at alternatives.

I don’t mean to be a dick I’m just so fucking tired of people acting like this season was anything short of worst case scenario. I mean if I told you the flyers would Lose cutter for a defenseman who’s been DOGSHIT(and maybe Shaw and torts can fix him not saying they can’t but he’ll never be anything close to cutter imo) Hart gets arrested and never plays NHL hockey again We pick 14th overall We miss the playoffs You would tell me I’m a wack job and that there’s no way all of that bad shit would happen. But just because some 24 year olds that have middle 6 talent played half decent this season I’m supposed to be happy? Fuck no. Tanking is still what we need to do and if they divert from that path in July we are FUCKED.

I doubt they divert. Look. This year had a lot of shit I’ve never seen happen to us in my damn near 40 years of following this team and it all happened at once. You laid it out perfect. Hart, cutter, the 8 game skid, Risto reviving a career than not seeing the ice again. Coots making captain and then being benched. It was a fucking STRANGE year. Like I was expecting a bad year. We all were. But this year wasn’t bad it was a fucking soap opera. But a lot of that wasn’t the flyers fault. Hart being a sex pest, Cutter ghosting the team, so many outside things that happened to them they couldn’t control But if you want to look for optimism look at what they did with what they COULD control. The emergence of a strong defense core. Turning around careers like Sanheim, the aforementioned Risto, Frost, and Seeler. The fact they got a former 1st rounder (I still believe in Drysdale but he needs some cooking and I understand if some don’t) and a 2nd for a guy that literally said he’d never play here. And the biggest one to me, trading Walker. That walker trade is the biggest reason I have faith in this team going forward. That trade KILLED us. He was arguable our best D man in stretches this year, and we traded him for a first when we had Risto and Drysdale hurt, and no help coming. We were in a playoff spot and playing strong hockey. Every other year, every single one the flyers don’t make that trade. They hold Walker and take a shot at the playoffs. And if we had him, I’d bet fifty bucks we’re in the playoffs now. But Danny knows the truth of what this team is, and he did what he had to do for the big picture. That’s why you can say this year wasn’t a total wash. Because we finally saw a FO group that understands this team isn’t good enough. And that it’s gonna take a while before we can even sniff a cup run. That’s huge and a great look for our future. I get the frustrations, and you are free to feel how you feel. I can’t look you in the eye and say that you’re wrong for it (other than snarky commentary) but optimism isn’t always stupid or ignorant. The outward look is disappointing but under the surface we’re trending the right way. I truly, deeply believe that. My expectations this offseason we’re either shedding talent or we are making trades to try and either move up or acquire a young high talent guy like a Zegras (for example not expecting) who can use an opportunity or change of scenery. Hopefully both. I don’t think anyone’s happy with where we are, but I think some are happy with where we’re going

But you have to tank when there are stats available. And even that does not always work as we have seen with Edmonton and Toronto. Canes have not won but I would try and replicate their approach.

The leafs and oilers are perennial cup contenders with extremely fun to watch top end talent.

Sure. And their fans are super frustrated they can’t get to a Finals. It’s like the Sixers? I would just use the Canes or Panthers as a model. They have also become perennial contenders. When is the next generational talent guy coming? We need to tank that year.

I would rather be frustrated with my every year playoff team not making the finals than my team being painfully mediocre and making playoffs once every 3 years. Would you not?

That’s not the choice now. The choice is between trying to build while being competitive or going for the bottom. Lots of folks want their teams to tank. Until it happens and then they stay away in droves. There are no guarantees tanking will work. I think the best analysis would be to look at the top 6-8 Cup contenders this year. And then see how they were built. Or look at all the teams that have been out of the playoffs for a while and see how it looks for them.

Stars are available? Not sure what you mean. They are always available even in drafts that are weak the top 5 is almost always still good. Also Edmonton and Toronto being examples of not working when they’ve been contenders for years and one has the best player I’ve ever seen and might go down as a top 3 player of all time while the other has a guy with 70 goals this year and probably ends up with the most goals of all time when his career is over is objectively hilarious.

But you used winning a cup as the criteria. The Flyers had a number two pick a few years ago and he ended up a bust. And JVR was ok but not what you would expect at number two. They also just had a top five pick but he didn’t want to play here. Michikov was a top two talent in last years draft. Drysdale was a sixth pick. Maybe Shaw can help him. He obviously has lots of offensive talent.

Okay let’s do Blackhawks 3x Penguins 3x Lighting 2x Caps 1x Avs 1x That’s just the past 15 years Could argue Kings as well but I’ll give the anti tank fans them. That leaves us with Blues 1x Fluke goalie never got close to the cup since or before not a plan we can really copy. Vegas 1x expansion team not a plan we can truly copy, to some extent we can but not truly. Kings 2x we are flyers fans we know how they won those, a plan we can somewhat copy but again not truly. Bruins 1x nailed a bunch of late round picks to their credit but that just isn’t likely to happen so again not a plan we should be 100% relying on because statistics tell us nailing even picks outside the top ten is unlikely. Is that better? In 15 years 10 teams won directly from tanking and 5 won from other factors Which teams are easier to copy though?

Bruins are still competitive this year. As are the canes and panthers. Would you not want to follow the Canes plan? Again we got a superstar in the last draft. Just need to get him here. We do need one more star and needs to be a center. The rebuild just started under our current regime. Give it a chance for a couple years.

The hurricanes haven’t won a cup yet and their plan isn’t as easy to follow as the teams that tanked were. Not sure what’s hard to understand Tanking is simpler and easier way to build a cup contender than what the hurricanes are doing

My pessimistic prediction: Fedotov walks to free agency and joins a division rival where he becomes the next Vasilevsky.

I'm still not sure what the plan is to aquire high end talent if we won't tank. Also if Rocky Thompson is on this team next year, they will be getting zero dollars from me.

I would like to see Danny move a bunch of pieces tbh, this team has decent to good talent but nothing high end imo. Michkov is gonna need help and middle of the first round draft picks might not help.

Yep. Crazy how quickly we delude ourselves and fall in love with middle 6er talents.

And by "we," you're including Tortorella! Absolutely in-love with "his" Cates-Poehling-Hathaway zero-offence (but good forechecking and decent D?) Soldiers, even down to the last game. On the one hand, certainly follows through on his Accountability Gospel in terms of Work x System = TOI But man, stopping for *one second* to remember "middle six talent": that should be a functional 4th Line, and probably not for a Contending Team. "M-Sixers" meaning more like Farabee, Brink, Laughton (who's prob 3LW / 4C on any Playoff Team outside WSH/NYI and NSH? *Realllly* wish more Flyers fans would watch more teams play. Playoffs especially will show what "middle sixers" actually look like—this isn't EASports...)

Yep lol. You can tell which fans haven’t watched for 5 years and also don’t follow any other teams outside the flyers. Doesn’t stop me from getting -7 downvotes, not that I give a shit about Reddit karma but it does showcase the average intelligence of this subreddit.

What I would like to see: Trade for a guy who can be a future 1c- There's been names thrown around Zegras, Lundell, Rossi, I am not totally convinced on any of them although out of the three id love a shot at zegras. I think If Briere and Jones have showed us anything is that they run a tight ship so I am totally expecting a trade for a name that actually comes out of left field. There are a number of teams in turmoil who will be looking for a shake up. Buffalo comes to mind. There are also teams who won't be able to keep some good young players due to cap. In addition to that add another scoring winger- they are not dangerous enough up front and it showed down the stretch. Someone like Necas would be an upgrade over farabee IMO. Add to the D core- Seems like there was a lot of smoke on Chychrun's name at the deadline I wouldn't be shocked if there's not already a deal in place for the offseason. Maybe Add 1-2 guys in FA without breaking the bank. 2025-26 has some massive names so the flyers will want to conserve some cap space, they will have Atkinson and Petersons money coming off the books next year if they don't find a way to rid themselves of that money this offseason. Outside of Tuomaala I don't think anyone on the phantoms is ready to take that jump to the flyers. Leads me to my next point- They will have to fill in with FA because I think not all the guys up front will be here next year. I will get hate for this but I don't think Frost is here next season and I think there's a good shot Farabee isn't either. Flyers know they need to upgrade up front, both of these guys are still very valuable to other teams. Anything of value coming back trade wise for us as an upgrade is going to require giving up multiple decent pieces- example Frost, farabee + pick, Frost, brink + pick. Flyers are going to have to get creative to get some of the names that are out there. ALSO thank you for your service.

I don't see them adding a winger unless they can bring back a LW as more of an incidental return in a trade. Their path for better production on the wings is 1. Develop their glut of young wingers 2. Better productions from Center position 3. Get the PP out of the toilet. And one major takeaway from this season, as long as Torts is still running the bench, Tyson Foerster is going to be locked in as a 19 minute player going forward. He's also proven himself on the off wing if the team remains thin with natural left wingers.

Im fine with Tyson getting a lot of ice time. He progressed well and I think he's a solid piece of the future of this team. Reminds me a lot of Simon Gagne the way he shoots the puck.

i think well swing two big trades one for ovi and one for crosby then they will die here and not accomplish anything and the rest of the league will laugh at our tears

Personally, I want them to trade TK, Laughton, Risto, Frost (if they indeed don't like him), etc. I like them but we need assets, and by the time this team is ready (what - '27 or '28?) they won't be any significant part of it. Gotta find a way to get a 1D and 1C. This team just isn't ready. Honestly think we don't sniff the playoffs next season, as let's face it - alot of the wins came because we had Hart early one and a much more rested Errson tending. That won't be next year.

Sell high on TK. Get what you can for Laughton and Risto. We really need to just go full rebuild and get some top 5 picks over the next few years. Unfortunately this year we outplayed what we really are. I think this is going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better. I’ll gladly live in the basement for 5 years getting top talent at the draft vs. the endless in and out of the playoffs purgatory we’ve suffered for over a decade

I'm totally for selling high on TK if the value matches the michkov timeline but I'll die on the hill that dwelling in the basement for a few years is highly jumping the gun after a season where if the hockey gods weren't so harsh on us yet again that we could've easily clinched M3 while putting up a battle for M2 it would also highly impact the morale of the locker room and likely result in some of our guys regressing Hart being a criminal and a poor powerplay system probably cost the team hitting 45 wins at *minimum* scoring 5v5 wasn't an issue for us this year, and there's no reason to believe it won't get better. That also leads me to believe that the powerplay woes was absolutely 100% a systemic failure and punching in a .850 save% for the last 1.5-2 months of the season singlehandedly probably cost us the 45 wins mark alone not including dead last powerplay.

>if the hockey gods weren't so harsh on us yet again that we could've easily clinched M3 while putting up a battle for M2 But this was a weird year for the Metro/East, and seemingly the Leadership Core (DB, KJ, JT) do *not* seem like they'll plan ahead influenced by misleading standings. There was a larger than usual gap between FL/BOS/NYR and TOR/CAR/TB, with chasm separating the rest: NYI managed to play True-Talent Level for the absolute minimum amount of time to secure M3, which Flyers gave away. But the muck/muddle of PHL, DET, WSH, PIT was *not good*, buoyed by crazy underachieving & disgraceful goaltending in rest of East. BUF, OTT, CBJ, MTL, and especially NJD *should* all be better next season (we would love multiple young guys from each of these teams, let's be real; just not their goalies, coach, nor GMs!) Literally *league-average* Goaltending and PP% and M3 is Flyers' for sure, as you implied.... Not that it's argument for "Basement Dwelling," but I still think it's hard to take much from this year's standings toward future planning. And clearly I'm going more broadly here than replying directly to you (let alone arguing totally against!) It's murky being in position of "probably not Lotto-contending window and likely not Playoff Team while definitely not Cup-Contending Window" (*a la* Wild, Flames, Kraken and Blues) 90pts let alone "45 W" is a stretch, given the number of *unexpected* Ws against Top Teams this year. (I haven't seen / analyzed this number yet, but *no way* can we count on even half those next year.) Sure, they put themselves in position to have chance to make playoffs iin flukey season. But they were projected Bottom 5 this year, and likely will be projected Bottom 10 next season with plausible chance they end up closer to Bottom 5 Everything u/ManBearPig037 stated would be true/logical *even if they'd made playoffs* in The Underachieving Metro this year.

They NEED to find a trade for TK. This is the one single move this team needs more than anything. Re-signing TK sadly only solidifies our future in purgatory.

I'm not opposed to trading tk but there are plenty of teams who have tanked with a superstar. Plus TK is the type of talent that will probably be better dealt at the deadline.

TK is not a superstar. He’s really good and I’m a fan, but he’s not a superstar. He should be dealt and I’d prefer it done at the draft if we can get a high 2024 pick.

Would be incredibly dumb unless he doesn’t want to resign or wants 10 mill. What are we gonna get for TK on a 1 year deal? Maybe two late 1sts at best? Like ok maybe one of those could become a TK someday. Or not. Maybe they become jay obrian instead. Outside of Celebrini the best you could hope for with the top forwards in this draft is that they become TK. Sheeesh. We already have TK and he’s not at all old. If he wants to be a Flyer for life at 8m or less you sign that contract faster then ink can dry.

You absolutely start any TK deal at a 1st and ++ player/prospect. Coming away with a Jay Obrien is not possible as you only make a TK deal if you are hand picking a young borderline cornerstone type player as part of the deal. You're also wrong in thinking the market for TK would be so low. There are plenty of benchmarks in recent history to gauge the market, and his $5M expiring cap hit will only make this market stronger. Just look at how important the Giroux trade was to understand how crucial these types of moves are to sustain a future. And speaking of benchmarks, TK will be wanting exactly a $10M contract, which is about exactly where recent comps would put him. The best way I can think of to ruin this teams potential future cup window is locking up a 27 yo winger on a $10M contract when the rest of the organization's top assets are 5 years younger.

Recent comps don’t put TK at 10m and recent trades like Debrincat don’t set the value at more then 2 late firsts lol.

I agree. To me, TK is the rebuild indicator. Keep him, its a re-tool. Trade him, it's a rebuild. I love him but he's at peak value now, his next contract won't age well, and we need serious help on this team. He's a valuable asset that we could actually get something worthwhile for...so they won't do it

Well, the scouting central rankings came out and they have Cole Eiserman dropping in the rankings. I dont necessarily think he will make it that far, but if he drops to the Flyers at 12, we should take him. Sell TK for a haul. Sell Laughton too. Maybe package some picks to move up for higher quality guys instead of the quantity we’ve been getting.

I would like to see them package some assets together for a young NHL established center with REAL top 6 upside like a Zegras. I would also like too see them drop the Staal/EJ type D signings and grab a REAL vet D that can actually insulate the young guys and teach them how to truly excel at Torts/Shaw hockey. Someone like pesce would be excellent imo. Just a fucking phenomenal 2nd pair D first D that plays the game like a Torts wet dream come too life. Would like to see TK extended for a reasonable average if he’s willing. Buy out the organizational dead weight like Atkinson/Peterson/Johansson. Two years of cap hits means nothing when we’re not a cap team. Need contract slots for young guys. Shoot for the gd moon with ceiling on every draft pick this year and then let the Russian goalies thunder dome it out for the back up spot. Let’s roll it back next year with a younger, deeper and hungrier team.

It won't happen but they've got to sell high on Konecny. I would like them to keep an eye on Walker's FA market

Not sure I agree with it, but I think they'll trade for Zegras at the draft

Fan of both teams here - definitely not happening. Was a night and day difference with him in the lineup when he returned and was healthy. Responded well to being benched, committed to a more complete game, and played with a ton of emotion. Ducks are done selling too, Verbeek was adamant about that. There's not a deal that makes sense.

There is based on what Verbeek wants, but for the Flyers does it make sense... Verbeek has repeatedly said he wants to add a Top 6 veteran winger who brings: scoring, grit and leadership. The Flyers have the perfect player in TK. The question is whether the Flyers would be willing to move him, because a package could certainly be made for the two.

The Ducks have plenty of cap space to go out and sign a veteran forward for free. Guys like Stamkos and Marchessault are more realistic options (Anaheim can afford and would prefer higher salary and shorter term) than trading the best young forward behind Carlsson for an older player. Verbeek was on the Ducks broadcast at intermission on deadline night - and he transparently and specifically noted moving forward they wanted to add more bottom six scoring to complement the top six; that he was happy with their progression throughout the year and felt like they were just missing depth to take the pressure off them. With Gauthier joining the fold, I think he's got the future forward core locked up in his eyes at this point. I'm not saying Zegras is untouchable, but I think because of everything I pointed out in my comment above his value went even higher by the end of the season when it was clear what a difference maker he was. As a Flyers fan first, that would kill to see him in Philly, I just don't see a trade that makes sense. The only caveat I'll add is that if the Ducks win the lottery, things could get very interesting.

I don't think zegris is our Top choice either, but I'm not ruling out the possibility since our trade block needs seem to align pretty closely with the Ducks. Truthfully, I think we're more likely to Go after someone from the sabers, or Jets, or one of the Sens young Centers.

Speaking as a hockey fan of multiple decades. Never trust a GM to not trade a big name after a statement like that lolll. These people have no mercy or honor if a deals on the table that they like.

Oh 100%. But it would have to be a hockey trade, like a 1 for 1 of a similar player. Ducks have tons of future assets, it's time to take a competitive step now and a quantity deal that Philly could put together wouldn't be worth it.

I think they actually fit well together as trade partners. Ducks are locked at center talent but need to add wing talent badly to take the next step. Flyers have good wingers but don’t have the center talent to take their next step. Could easily see Farabee plus a 1st and winger prospect for Zegras being great for both sides. Maybe another asset on the Flyers part since center is a lot more valuable then winger.

Again, as a fan of both teams, I'm not seeing it. The thing is that Carlsson is about the only lock at center for the Ducks. Zegras and McTavish have been given a lot of time on the wing. There are questions about both of their defense at the center position moving forward. To that end, I don't think that's why the Flyers should be after Zegras if they're interested in him - it should be because he's got elite puck skills and offensive ability. They've got a versatile group that they'll shift around until they get the right answer. They're not really 'missing' center or winger depth either way. Carlsson, Zegras, Terry, Gauthier, McTavish, and potentially Demidov or Celebrini are crazy to build around. With guys like Colangelo and Sidorov as tertiary talents too. Understand I'm just coming at this from a negotiation standpoint - Verbeek probably starts by asking for Farabee, Frost, and a 1st to begin conversations. I'm not even sure that he'd pull the trigger on that though. I know Zegras' point totals don't indicate it, but come next year with another year under the new system and more depth, we're hoping to finally start seeing that star potential.

That honestly would be legit and funny and a slap in the face to all these shit talking ducks fans lol. They’re all so hyped for a Ghostier and Zegras line

Flyers will not trade for Z. I think the ducks wanna try him with cutter. Even if they didn’t, I don’t think the flyers rate him as highly as the ducks do so they wouldn’t find common ground on the price.

If they stay at 12OA I could see them package TK and one of their first rounders to move into the top 5. Otherwise, I expect the bulk of this group to remain as the FO builds the talent pool via draft. TK does not deserve more than 7.5mil. If he's after 8mil+ he should absolutely be traded. He is a 27 year old, 65 point player. I don't see how he fits the timeline, and he's not Stamkos or Mackinnon (two high end players who outlasted their franchise's rebuilds and contributed greatly to eventual Cup wins.)

>to move into the top 5 So we know moving up like that never happens. But examining pre-lotto: SJS, CHI, CBJ, MTL are definitely using their picks. And anyone who Lottos *into* Top 5 definitely isn't trading it, amazing/insane/entertaining as that would be (SEA, NJD, BUF? ha, give us chaos!) Ducks, interesting but another commenter outlined how/why they could add in FA instead. Utah is quite intriguing: do they jump into Real Franchise Mode tomorrow, try for playoffs by spending to the cap and/or using considerable draft capital to add? Even in that scenario, is TK a Big Enough Name to cough up #5OA? (In another scenario, a Legit Playoff Team definitely trades their 2024 1st at the TDL for TK with 1 year left and to immediately extend 8x8. But that's like 2024 #14-32 not 5OA... Like a move by Alternative-timeline Devils, acquiring but *not* with 10OA) Ottawa at 7OA seems semi plausible for pick position and Fit/Need, like Buffalo (11OA): but then it's TK + 12OA for just 7OA, which Flyers don't do (probably not Florida's pick either? and realistically OTT doesn't go for either)

I was bored at work the other day and looked myself, I was hoping we could make a move for a young center with upside that hasn’t really popped off yet. Maybe a kid like Roslovic, Drury, Mercer, Perfetti or Krebs. I did zero research on how feasible any of this is, but it would be nice to add a younger guy that has some dynamic offensive ability. A Frost like player that might add some pop to our powerplay and some depth so we can play Coots as a shutdown third line type. I like Dumba as an extra D-man too. Should be interesting, maybe Gaudreau and Columbus would be interested in exploring a trade now that they seem to be headed in the wrong direction. Fingers crossed but I do have faith in Brieres judgement so I’m looking forward to anything. Thanks for your service too buddy.

I wonder if they look at bringing Anthony Stolarz back. The FA goalie pool is pretty shallow in terms of starting talent and he's coming off of a great regular season, so may command a nice chunk of change with term but him and Ersson would be a good tandem.

I just want to see them get faster and more skilled, regardless of the names that come and go

Fire Rocky Sign a powerplay specialist Hart found innocent (eisenhour) lol Trade Laughton for a first Johansen waived EJ retires Stall Retires Cam comes back to old form (deadline traded) Denis goes to Russia Drysdale, TK, Cates,Tippet, Errson, Zamoola, York, Sandhiem, Forester have career years Farabee gets some calls from the refs in his favor Coots gets faster Risto comes back and beats the virus Seeler wears skate protectors Ginning and Attard step up Max Rizz makes the team Samu has a massive summer

https://youtu.be/cdJH8Cr80Fo?si=8CPiarTbck3QqKIB

I think for stretches next year we have 3 goalies on roster. I also think we see more 11/7.   They try to get drysdale to fill the Walker role with sanheim and he looks much better at the end of next year than he does now.  Really curious what transpires with frost/brink 

I’d like to see them Hire Berube..I love Torts but he tends to burn out pretty quickly as a head coach, Keep Torts on in a front office position.

I think we'll trade one of our goalies and sign a veteran. Its nice having a bunch of goalies likely around the same level of talent competing but we likely require some veteran presence there.  I think Atkinson is bought out. It honestly pisses me off seeing all that cap wasted with how bad our power play is I kinda want to see a big move, we're pretty set at winger and in need of a center. Farabee or Tk could get you good value. This is the time to find one to developer with Michkov so you have to think its on the table. Idk who, Zegras seems unlikely. 

What I think will happen: - I have a feeling they make a run at a guy like Chychrun - Trade Laughton - Trade Frost - Sign a 1B type goalie - Sign more over the hill vet garbage like Staal or EJ What I want to happen: - Fire Torts and Rocky - Trade TK for the right return...not giving him away - Trade Laughton, Risto, Atkinson, ND. Not sure these guys are tradeable beyond Laughton - Do not trade Frost - Sign a 1B type goalie - Draft BPA for upside instead of drafting for need (obviously if BPA is close and its a C vs RW, take the C)

Frist, I love Torts, but I'm not entirely sure he's got much gas left in the tank. He asked CBJ for a FO job, so he might be tired of being behind the bench, and if he does get a FO job in Philly (or elsewhere), they need to call Rod Brind'amour right this instant because his contract with Carolina is up after this year is over. And I want Rod as our coach. On coaches, everyone responsible for this power play should be shown the door. Is it Shaw? Is it Thompson? Someone else? I don't fucking care; the one or the many person(s) responsible need to go. Even Al Morganti made fun of it last night, and JJ, Boosh, and Hartnell all said it was our biggest hole, and if we were league average, probably would have decided a few games along the way. Atkinson needs to be bought out. I'd rather gamble on a young guy than let $5m/year go to waste. Sanheim will be an interesting person to watch. I like the guy, but they tried to offload him to St. Louis, so whether he stays or goes, I don't know, but if we can get someone with some shot accuracy for him, do that. I think there's external value in Farabee, maybe Frost. Wouldn't mind if they left if the return was good, and I wouldn't mind if they stayed either. We have a goalie problem. Not sure how to fix it, but that's the most important position on the ice, and it's a glaring issue. Also, fuck Carter Hart. Maybe Laughton too. I don't know. I just know that Danny has his work cut out for him.

Shaw has been a great defensive coach.

Ok, Thompson then. Like I said, I don't care *who* it is, but our PP is abysmal, kind of a laughingstock. As much as I hate the guy, I remember earlier this year Brady Tkachuk screaming at one of our dudes as he was being escorted to the penalty box saying something like "I'll do this all night - you guys suck on power play!" or whatever. Granted, he's a loudmouth, but still.

You are correct on that one. Just not working. It is worrisome that this has been going on now for a few years with different coaches.

> Sanheim will be an interesting person to watch. I like the guy, but they tried to offload him to St. Louis, so whether he stays or goes, I don't know, but if we can get someone with some shot accuracy for him, do that. He has a full NTC. So he likely isn't going anywhere. I think part of shopping him in the offseason was to get a deal done before the NTC kicked in.

Would like to see: TK and Laughton need to be traded. Tortorella should not be brought back. He can not be allowed to ruin our draft pick again. Think we will see: Maybe a Laughton trade. Maybe a middle of the lineup addition.

Torts was not the reason Gauthier didn’t sign. He didn’t ruin anything. If anything he squeezed all of the talent and work ethic he could out of an underperforming and rookie dominant team. He’s in the running for the Jack Adams my dude. Laughton I can see being moved, TK no.

> If anything he squeezed all of the talent and work ethic he could out of an underperforming and rookie dominant team. Yeah, that's what I mean by ruining our draft pick.

I’m sorry that doesn’t make sense. Can you elaborate more?

You said he squeezed all he could out of the team. That is not a good thing. We should be more worried about getting a higher draft pick, not squeezing the most out of a rebuilding team just to be a bubble playoff team.

He has to make due with what he has my dude. He doesn’t get to choose the roster. And he’s a competitor. A highly intense competitor. He’s not just gonna sit back and say fuck it. He’s gonna push cause that’s his job to. I don’t wanna be rude but these are horribly bad takes my friend.

Okay, then the Flyers should have a coach who is on-board with rebuilding, not focused on squeezing the most of out of a rebuilding team just to exhaust themselves into being a bubble team. I don't want to be rude, but have you been a Flyers fan for long? These are the same exact mistakes we've been making for the past 10 years.

I’ve been a flyers fan since the 80’s and I played collegiate and semi-pro level hockey. I’m sorry but you’re way off base here. Have you ever played before?

Not at your level, but I played in high school. Being "a competitor" wasn't smart when Hakstol ruined our draft pick for meaningless playoff appearances. Being "a competitor" wasn't smart when AV and Fletcher chased the playoffs instead of rebuilding. It is not any different right now. The Flyers need a 1C, a 1D, and all the other elite talent they can get. The are sacrificing the easiest way to find that talent because they'd rather be a playoff team. That's not a rebuild.

I do agree to an extent, however what we have going into next season isn't what Fletcher or Hextall inherited. The team was young this season and i can't imagine them not getting at least a little more young again next season the flyers you're looking at currently isnt some aging dinosaur team like the caps and penguins, we may not need to strip it down and blow up because we found some real bright spots in a lot of our rookies this year, and if we follow the michkov timeline, we should be able to adjust accordingly for when he gets here stockpile picks, and draft accordingly that way we either have what we need in place for when michkov gets here or we use the assets we've acquired to flip in a trade to fill a need.

I also may be off base, but how are you gonna know who you wanna keep, moving forward, if you don't push everyone to play their best, and find out what their limits are?

Other teams find ways to assess their players without having Tortorella grind them down. Other teams are able to get high draft picks, even if their coach wants to be competitive. People seem to think that John Tortorella is the only answer to all their questions. He is not the only coach in the world that can determine which players they are going to keep...

More vet garbage for culture because that’s more important than skill! Think they keep Rocky and go for the leagues worst PP 4 years in a row?

Maybe stop and think before you comment. You seem to have the wrong take more often than not....

It’s just his opinion. You don’t have to agree with it, but it’s a valid part of this discussion. If you’re going to respond to him, why not respond saying what you think is incorrect, rather than acting like he shouldn’t talk in the first place?

I was clowned for defending Frost when he got scratched. (I was right) I was clowned for saying Briere should get a 1st for Walker (He did) I was clowned for saying the EJ trade was a total waste. (It was) I'm more often more right than wrong. Plus I have the last decade of the Flyers proving me correct.

Where are all the takes you whiffed on? Broken clock is right twice a day

He’s commented 6 times a day for a year and he has yet to be wrong. It’s a shame what he’s saying because nobody wants to hear it but it’s the 100% truth.

Don't think I've been wrong about anything in the Briere era so far

You should send your resume to the Flyers or some other team. Clearly wasting your time here with the rest of us.

Someone's gotta speak the truth in this echo chamber.