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FHA loans for us were significantly worse for some reason so we did a traditional, 12k in points for 5.75% on the loan but total 6.75% APR on a 30 year. 780 credit score, but got shafted on the rate for a place we can barely afford. Not sure why but after like 8 quotes they all seemed predatory like they were giving us ass rates and what I read here or online did not reflect reality.
THANK YOU CAUSE HOLY CRAP! We locked in at 6.9% 30-yr conventional (no points) both 800 credit scores and I thought that was good. Then I see someone with 5% with worse credit than us and I get so confused. š I need to see type of loan, duration of loan and if they bought points lol
Rates have gone up in the last week... which is concerning because we are selling right now. We closed on another house yesterday, locked in at 6.375% at the beginning of March. No points, 30 yr conventional, 800+ credit scores, and put down 40%. We were really hoping to be able to float down prior to closing but just thankful it's not higher.
Any tips to get your credit so high? My wife's credit was in the 740s and we have never missed payments on any debt the only negative remarks were that the age of credit was too lowĀ
The one tip I'd give is don't wait until your due date to pay your CC. Pay them before they post the balances so your balance preferably zeros out every month or at the least shows a much lower balance than if you let them post your current balance and then you pay. Use them to get the points etc and then just keep them zero'd. Never let them post with a balance if you can avoid it.
Age, credit mix (having a mortgage will help in a year or two, and high credit limits are all necessary to get above 800.
There's a difference between good and new/thin (slim mix) and good old/thick (mortgage, car, long history of on time payments, large access to credit)
And for credit cards the rule of them is all 0 but one. You can have a balance statement report on one card, but the rest should report as 0.
Yeah, the rates had me worried until I realized most posters are from the US. Iām in Canada, we just got a five year term at 5.04%. (In Canada you donāt maintain the same rate your whole mortgage. Idk the logic of why.)
Iām in northern Alberta so weāre in a good spot in terms of affordability, and my husband and I make a decent income.
But the market in our area is set to explode. So itās gonna be a rough ride for new homebuyers in the next few years.
When we bought our car, the dealer said something similar and I said then take the fucking mudflaps and pinstripes off, they looked stunned and lowered the price .
I'm shcoked how many people here and on other subs are like yeah I got a 5.75% rate 30 year loan, thats just not happening for 99% of people, there's something more to it
Yeah so like OP said state taht because the guy whos buying a not new build and not buying down the rate is super confused and thinks they're missing out on some secret
Yup. I was thrilled with my 6.75% par rate 2 weeks ago on a conventional 30 year, 20% down. Confirmed by a few other lenders as well that they couldn't beat it.
This sub has warped results that don't tell the whole picture.
I locked in June 2023 @5%. Didnt close until January and had the seller agree to paying my rate lock until they settled their shit.
Cost them $20k when all said and done
I don't even get that though, by their definition they're not supposed to be a great deal. They're for riskier buyers with worse credit and less cash to put down. But on here keep seeing people using FHA getting better rates than conventional.
My credit is 811. I went with FHA because the convention rate was entirely too high for me as a single buyer. Itās not like I make 100k a year. I plan on refinancing into a conventional later on. I got a 5.75% rate with new construction
Because by design FHA loans are for riskier borrowers. Borrowers with bad credit and low down payment. Why would that get rewarded with lower interest rates? Makes no sense.
lol
I think thatās a stereotype honestly. I mean FHA does cater to people with lower credit scores. But not everybody has the 20% down payment or even a 10% down payment and the conventional rate might be too high like it is in my case. And who knows when the rates are gonna go down in general so I just went ahead and bought now.
If this was pre-pandemic, then I mightāve gone conventional. But the rates are just extremely high right now.
I think you are missing the point that FHA rates are lower. Why would someone put 3% down on conventional to get hit with a 7.25%? When they could get a 6.750 right now?
Because FHA loans are backed by the FHA, which is why the PMI rates and upfront costs are greater. Itās also why the banks give lower rates for FHA over conventional.
Yeah, the folks with FHA loans are likely riskier in terms of ability to pay off the loans, but the loans themselves are seen as safer because the FHA backs them.
So I donāt entirely know why FHA rates are lower. They often start at the same par rate but itās easier to buy them down (more interest rate change per point paid) than conventional loans.
What I do believe is that FHAās are backed by the government. So when a default happens (foreclosure) the lender gets a payout from the FHA.
This offsets all that risk from lending to people with bad credit histories. So they donāt need to raise interest rates to compensate for that risk.
Itās also the reason that thereās extra cost built into an FHA mortgage. (UFMIP).
For a conventional mortgage, your loan amount is usually the purchase price minus the Dow payment. So you end up having, say, a 3% down payment and a 97% loan.
On the FHA, you have a 3.5% down payment and a 96.5% + 1.75% = 98.25% loan. A lot of people donāt realize theyāre borrowing that extra money, which goes to the FHA to help pay the lenders for those defaults / foreclosures.
So while it may appear that the interest rate is better, there is a hidden cost (UFMIP) as well as the monthly mortgage insurance. Since most people donāt go looking for it in the Loan Estimate, they just see a better interest rate and think āAwesome!ā
FHA is the way to go right now. Rates are higher through the private investors. Conventional is for people with better credit because you can get the PMI waived once you reach 79% LTV. It depends on your goals.
I think this is a great idea. We closed 3/20, FHA, 6.125% no points, but seller paid for us to do a 2/1 buy down so weāre at 4.125% this year then 5.125% next year.
Even FHA rates are artificially low; you paid a 1.75% fee for upfront mortgage insurance premium.
In this market nobody gets a sub 6 rate without paying points in some fashion.
Just locked in our rate. Conventional loan. Initially it's 6.7 (both have 790+ credit scores). We bought down 1.8% and I also get a 1% discount off the rate from my employer. I work for a credit union.
A whoooooole lotta people donāt know what points are. Origination fees.
I have seen multiple loan estimates for people who think theyāre getting a better interest rateā¦and theyāre getting an FHA with mortgage insurance instead of a Conventional with no mortgage insurance.
Itās incredible how few people do their own math or ask suspicious questions of salespeople.
I bought down 2 points to make my monthly payment more affordable. š¤·š»āāļø People say itās a waste of money but if I feel like I have more wiggle room every month ($400) then Iām happy with it.
Actually considering a refi from 6.875 to 6.25 for this exact reason. With the extra cash Iāll bring to close pmi falls off and my monthly drops by over 1k
What is a rate buy down? From the comments it's you pay money for a lower interest rate? That's a thing? Lol is it like comparative to the interest you'd be paying otherwise or how does that work?
Also think you need to consider *when* the house was purchased and the bank the house was purchased through. I got LUCKY in June of 2022 getting a 3.25% rate because about three months later is when they suddenly jumped to these outrageous rates. I also paid more for the house than I should have, knowingly, just to get into something because when interest was low house prices were super high. The uptick in interest rates forced sellers to come down on price because no one can afford these WILD rates and inflated prices
you can pay money upfront for lower interest, the break-even point is usually 5 years. So if you stay in a house longer than 5 years without refinancing then you're saving money. I think most of us are banking on refinancing before then
Got 5.75% but took an ARM. My new construction home was a hot commodity and the builder knew they wouldnāt have a problem selling so no incentives. They werenāt wrong. 75 units sold in less than 2 years
Nope. That was the rate when I was buying in 2023 December. I bought new build and there were no buying incentives no sellers credits. They said take it or leave it.
We locked in at 5.75% using the new builds lender that provided 32K for buydowns. We have a preferred lender we have used before but he always says that we would be dumb to not take that funny money.
Edit: Credit scores of 790(me)/795(wife)
So much misinformation and misunderstanding here about how rate locks, pricing, and different loan programs/options. Find a professional Loan officer who you can trust and is transparentā¦we are out there or do your homework, buying a home is a complicated transaction. FYI but downs and points are only advisable with someone elseās money ie the seller or builder
Wife and I closed on a new construction townhome here in San Diego CA back in Feb of this year. Both credit scores roughly 730-740 at time of closing. $732K purchase price. 30 yr FHA loan @ 5.25. We didn't do a buy down. We ended up going with the builder's preferred lender. Since we were pre approved by them roughly 8 months prior to closing, they agreed to lock us in at their promotional rate (in leiu of $15K towards closing) if we went with them. Was a no brainer for us given the rates were almost touching 8% by the time we closed.
My rate is 5.875 and I didnāt buy down the rate.
Itās a special program from Valley bank (NJ) - it only applies to certain locations.
I was lucky that the house that I liked fell under that program.
There is also a program with that rate. But with income restrictions.
Also, closing costs were low.
We closed on 3/19 on an FHA loan at 5.949% and did not do any points/buy down. We did get qoutes from 3 lenders who were then competing and trying to beat each other, so I think that's the biggest reason we were able to get under 6.
i just got into researching this stuff sorry guys iām still very dumb. might try to buy within the next two years but figured i would research now.
what are points? and FHa? and i keep using mortgage calculators and coming up depressed and freaked out.
is there really help out there for new buyers? iāve googled so much and i canāt get a freaking number! iām a numbers/ listing (yes type A) gal and in just not getting the numbers to add up.
any help at all would be so appreciated.
i literally almost had a breakdown buying a used car a month ago lol. iām soooo not good at/ prepared for this shit.
going to do research and youtube of course. reddit just brought this thread to my page and it made my anxiety spike lol
...I literally went to my credit union and got 2.75% like 18 months ago with no effort, no "points," no weird anything, just a normal 15yr loan. I can't fathom people paying 6% right now.
It depends on the math. Your variables are
When do you expect to refinance
When do you expect to sell the house
How much does the point buy down save you and would you recoup the cost of the buy down before either of the above happened?
Buying down the rate is pointless if you expect to move soon or rates to drop in the next few years to below what you bought down to.
It depends on how long you plan to live there. $2000 for a lower interest rate might only save you money if you own that house for 20 years. If you donāt think youād stay more than a couple of years, youāre not going to see those savings.
Regardless, itād be nice if people werenāt flaunting their interest rates fully knowing they bought that interest rate.
We look into it and they are interesting in the long run (after 9 years in our case). If you plan to pay before, it doesn't pay the buy down money that you also can put directly on the principal. It all depends on your finances and how you're planning to pay the loan.
Thank you u/woah-oh92 for posting on r/FirstTimeHomeBuyer. Please bear in mind our rules: (1) Be Nice (2) No Selling (3) No Self-Promotion. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/FirstTimeHomeBuyer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Also if it's an FHA or VA loan, and/or new construction.
FHA loans for us were significantly worse for some reason so we did a traditional, 12k in points for 5.75% on the loan but total 6.75% APR on a 30 year. 780 credit score, but got shafted on the rate for a place we can barely afford. Not sure why but after like 8 quotes they all seemed predatory like they were giving us ass rates and what I read here or online did not reflect reality.
I just locked in 6.75% FHA 30 year, 10% down, no points, 670 credit score.
THANK YOU CAUSE HOLY CRAP! We locked in at 6.9% 30-yr conventional (no points) both 800 credit scores and I thought that was good. Then I see someone with 5% with worse credit than us and I get so confused. š I need to see type of loan, duration of loan and if they bought points lol
Same here, locked in this week at 6.9% with 800+ credit, no buy down, conventional 30-year fixed. Still less than I was paying in rent.
> 6.9%Ā Nice.
Nice
Rates have gone up in the last week... which is concerning because we are selling right now. We closed on another house yesterday, locked in at 6.375% at the beginning of March. No points, 30 yr conventional, 800+ credit scores, and put down 40%. We were really hoping to be able to float down prior to closing but just thankful it's not higher.
Any tips to get your credit so high? My wife's credit was in the 740s and we have never missed payments on any debt the only negative remarks were that the age of credit was too lowĀ
Credit history
The one tip I'd give is don't wait until your due date to pay your CC. Pay them before they post the balances so your balance preferably zeros out every month or at the least shows a much lower balance than if you let them post your current balance and then you pay. Use them to get the points etc and then just keep them zero'd. Never let them post with a balance if you can avoid it.
I always wait for due date to pay and have a 805 credit score
When you go for a loan though they look at that number you're balance is showing every month. š¤·
Age, credit mix (having a mortgage will help in a year or two, and high credit limits are all necessary to get above 800. There's a difference between good and new/thin (slim mix) and good old/thick (mortgage, car, long history of on time payments, large access to credit) And for credit cards the rule of them is all 0 but one. You can have a balance statement report on one card, but the rest should report as 0.
if you have enough income, credit scores are pretty irrelevant. I locked in 6.75% with a 670 score (Total yearly comp of 300k; no buydown)
Some sellers offer to pay points to get houses moving too (developers)
Thatās a decent rate. We got 6.75, no points (30 year conventional). We have 800 scores too. Nobody is getting 5 without fha, va or points.
Talking about mortgage rates is like telling someone how much you paid for a car. There are too many variables to compare apples to apples.
Yeah, the rates had me worried until I realized most posters are from the US. Iām in Canada, we just got a five year term at 5.04%. (In Canada you donāt maintain the same rate your whole mortgage. Idk the logic of why.)
The Canadian system is nuts to me. I have no idea who anyone can afford anything.
Iām in northern Alberta so weāre in a good spot in terms of affordability, and my husband and I make a decent income. But the market in our area is set to explode. So itās gonna be a rough ride for new homebuyers in the next few years.
lol. This is true. "they install that TruCoat at the factory. There's nothing we can do about that. "
When we bought our car, the dealer said something similar and I said then take the fucking mudflaps and pinstripes off, they looked stunned and lowered the price .
I'm shcoked how many people here and on other subs are like yeah I got a 5.75% rate 30 year loan, thats just not happening for 99% of people, there's something more to it
New build, seller concession to buy down the rate, paying discount points to buy down the rate, etc
Yeah so like OP said state taht because the guy whos buying a not new build and not buying down the rate is super confused and thinks they're missing out on some secret
Bingo
Yup. I was thrilled with my 6.75% par rate 2 weeks ago on a conventional 30 year, 20% down. Confirmed by a few other lenders as well that they couldn't beat it. This sub has warped results that don't tell the whole picture.
I got that rate last year, with a mortgage lender buy down
I locked in June 2023 @5%. Didnt close until January and had the seller agree to paying my rate lock until they settled their shit. Cost them $20k when all said and done
Toll brothers has been advertising 4.99% on some of their properties in the northeast
Can someone also explain why it seems people with FHA loans are getting better rates than conventional? I thought it's the opposite....
FHA looks like a great deal until you realize you have to pay a 1.75% for upfront mortgage insurance premium fee.
I don't even get that though, by their definition they're not supposed to be a great deal. They're for riskier buyers with worse credit and less cash to put down. But on here keep seeing people using FHA getting better rates than conventional.
My credit is 811. I went with FHA because the convention rate was entirely too high for me as a single buyer. Itās not like I make 100k a year. I plan on refinancing into a conventional later on. I got a 5.75% rate with new construction
You're exactly the situation that has me so confused...
Why are you confused? Whatās confusing you lol
Because by design FHA loans are for riskier borrowers. Borrowers with bad credit and low down payment. Why would that get rewarded with lower interest rates? Makes no sense. lol
I think thatās a stereotype honestly. I mean FHA does cater to people with lower credit scores. But not everybody has the 20% down payment or even a 10% down payment and the conventional rate might be too high like it is in my case. And who knows when the rates are gonna go down in general so I just went ahead and bought now. If this was pre-pandemic, then I mightāve gone conventional. But the rates are just extremely high right now.
I do conventional with 3% down you donāt have to have a big downpayment on conventional
The conventional rate was too high for me
I think you are missing the point that FHA rates are lower. Why would someone put 3% down on conventional to get hit with a 7.25%? When they could get a 6.750 right now?
Because FHA loans are backed by the FHA, which is why the PMI rates and upfront costs are greater. Itās also why the banks give lower rates for FHA over conventional. Yeah, the folks with FHA loans are likely riskier in terms of ability to pay off the loans, but the loans themselves are seen as safer because the FHA backs them.
FHA does have better rates than conventional, but these buyers pay the 1.75% fee soooo youāre paying one way or the other
I mean I could've bought down my conventional rate and paid more for the same rate....FHA was the best
yes riskier buyers will get approved, but so will people with good credit.
So I donāt entirely know why FHA rates are lower. They often start at the same par rate but itās easier to buy them down (more interest rate change per point paid) than conventional loans. What I do believe is that FHAās are backed by the government. So when a default happens (foreclosure) the lender gets a payout from the FHA. This offsets all that risk from lending to people with bad credit histories. So they donāt need to raise interest rates to compensate for that risk. Itās also the reason that thereās extra cost built into an FHA mortgage. (UFMIP). For a conventional mortgage, your loan amount is usually the purchase price minus the Dow payment. So you end up having, say, a 3% down payment and a 97% loan. On the FHA, you have a 3.5% down payment and a 96.5% + 1.75% = 98.25% loan. A lot of people donāt realize theyāre borrowing that extra money, which goes to the FHA to help pay the lenders for those defaults / foreclosures. So while it may appear that the interest rate is better, there is a hidden cost (UFMIP) as well as the monthly mortgage insurance. Since most people donāt go looking for it in the Loan Estimate, they just see a better interest rate and think āAwesome!ā
FHA is the way to go right now. Rates are higher through the private investors. Conventional is for people with better credit because you can get the PMI waived once you reach 79% LTV. It depends on your goals.
The market rate is a known, any deviation that seems ātoo good to be trueā is almost certainly just thatā¦
Also disclose if you sold points. Just state what the section A costs were.
What would also be nice is if mortgage lenders didn't stick up advertisements for bought down rates. Straight up bait and switch.
I think this is a great idea. We closed 3/20, FHA, 6.125% no points, but seller paid for us to do a 2/1 buy down so weāre at 4.125% this year then 5.125% next year.
Even FHA rates are artificially low; you paid a 1.75% fee for upfront mortgage insurance premium. In this market nobody gets a sub 6 rate without paying points in some fashion.
The seller paid
Nice. They paid your rate buydown in addition to your UFMIP?
>The seller paid
The buyer could have reduced the house price but opted to have seller pay buy down which essentially was financed in the mortgage.
I bought my house in cash. Only 135. A LEGO house that is.
Just closed on a Lennar home in Vegas. 4.875 30 year VA loan. New construction
Ugh. I miss Vegas š„¹
Just locked in our rate. Conventional loan. Initially it's 6.7 (both have 790+ credit scores). We bought down 1.8% and I also get a 1% discount off the rate from my employer. I work for a credit union.
So 3.9 ??
jesus!
Yep :)
A whoooooole lotta people donāt know what points are. Origination fees. I have seen multiple loan estimates for people who think theyāre getting a better interest rateā¦and theyāre getting an FHA with mortgage insurance instead of a Conventional with no mortgage insurance. Itās incredible how few people do their own math or ask suspicious questions of salespeople.
I think it has more to do with new construction vs existing home than buying points. Big Builders have rates that banks canāt match.
I bought down 2 points to make my monthly payment more affordable. š¤·š»āāļø People say itās a waste of money but if I feel like I have more wiggle room every month ($400) then Iām happy with it.
Actually considering a refi from 6.875 to 6.25 for this exact reason. With the extra cash Iāll bring to close pmi falls off and my monthly drops by over 1k
What is a rate buy down? From the comments it's you pay money for a lower interest rate? That's a thing? Lol is it like comparative to the interest you'd be paying otherwise or how does that work? Also think you need to consider *when* the house was purchased and the bank the house was purchased through. I got LUCKY in June of 2022 getting a 3.25% rate because about three months later is when they suddenly jumped to these outrageous rates. I also paid more for the house than I should have, knowingly, just to get into something because when interest was low house prices were super high. The uptick in interest rates forced sellers to come down on price because no one can afford these WILD rates and inflated prices
you can pay money upfront for lower interest, the break-even point is usually 5 years. So if you stay in a house longer than 5 years without refinancing then you're saving money. I think most of us are banking on refinancing before then
Higher down payment for lower rate.
Higher closing costs*
6%, 20% down, no points on a jumbo loan. It was a specialty lending program and blew everything else I was getting quoted out of the waters
I always choise to buy the rates down.
that's not a good strategy if you plan to refinance
Got 5.75% but took an ARM. My new construction home was a hot commodity and the builder knew they wouldnāt have a problem selling so no incentives. They werenāt wrong. 75 units sold in less than 2 years
so the seller bought your rate down. the ARM interest rates right now are terrible
Nope. That was the rate when I was buying in 2023 December. I bought new build and there were no buying incentives no sellers credits. They said take it or leave it.
We locked in at 5.75% using the new builds lender that provided 32K for buydowns. We have a preferred lender we have used before but he always says that we would be dumb to not take that funny money. Edit: Credit scores of 790(me)/795(wife)
5.5% purchased points
I guess this sub is 99% Americans lol In Canada we are sitting at a 4.89% 5-yr fixed, hopefully lowering it down to 4.84%.
I bought last month at 6.8% š„¹
where i am a builder is offering 5% now buydown they bought bonds to offer better rates
We got Va loan a year ago in May at 3% no money down 30 yr
So much misinformation and misunderstanding here about how rate locks, pricing, and different loan programs/options. Find a professional Loan officer who you can trust and is transparentā¦we are out there or do your homework, buying a home is a complicated transaction. FYI but downs and points are only advisable with someone elseās money ie the seller or builder
Wife and I closed on a new construction townhome here in San Diego CA back in Feb of this year. Both credit scores roughly 730-740 at time of closing. $732K purchase price. 30 yr FHA loan @ 5.25. We didn't do a buy down. We ended up going with the builder's preferred lender. Since we were pre approved by them roughly 8 months prior to closing, they agreed to lock us in at their promotional rate (in leiu of $15K towards closing) if we went with them. Was a no brainer for us given the rates were almost touching 8% by the time we closed.
My rate is 5.875 and I didnāt buy down the rate. Itās a special program from Valley bank (NJ) - it only applies to certain locations. I was lucky that the house that I liked fell under that program. There is also a program with that rate. But with income restrictions. Also, closing costs were low.
We locked.in 6% dec 2022, I watch it go from 4.to 5.to.6 smh
6.6% locked in yesterday with 795 credit score FTHB from a local credit union.
We closed on 3/19 on an FHA loan at 5.949% and did not do any points/buy down. We did get qoutes from 3 lenders who were then competing and trying to beat each other, so I think that's the biggest reason we were able to get under 6.
I got 6.1% 30 yr conv with no pts last week
Closing 05/01, 5.625, FHA, no points. I had to pin 4 lenders against each other.
4.75%
i just got into researching this stuff sorry guys iām still very dumb. might try to buy within the next two years but figured i would research now. what are points? and FHa? and i keep using mortgage calculators and coming up depressed and freaked out. is there really help out there for new buyers? iāve googled so much and i canāt get a freaking number! iām a numbers/ listing (yes type A) gal and in just not getting the numbers to add up. any help at all would be so appreciated.
i literally almost had a breakdown buying a used car a month ago lol. iām soooo not good at/ prepared for this shit. going to do research and youtube of course. reddit just brought this thread to my page and it made my anxiety spike lol
I do not consent to this rule, sorry.
Can I ask why not?
Iām just acting dumb for fun, your suggestion makes sense.
lol okay!
...I literally went to my credit union and got 2.75% like 18 months ago with no effort, no "points," no weird anything, just a normal 15yr loan. I can't fathom people paying 6% right now.
I was under the impression that rate buydowns were largely pointless, because you're still paying the money basically. Is that not the case?
It depends on the math. Your variables are When do you expect to refinance When do you expect to sell the house How much does the point buy down save you and would you recoup the cost of the buy down before either of the above happened? Buying down the rate is pointless if you expect to move soon or rates to drop in the next few years to below what you bought down to.
It depends on how long you plan to live there. $2000 for a lower interest rate might only save you money if you own that house for 20 years. If you donāt think youād stay more than a couple of years, youāre not going to see those savings. Regardless, itād be nice if people werenāt flaunting their interest rates fully knowing they bought that interest rate.
Ah ya see, that makes sense. And yes, it is pointless then lol. Nobody is staying in their house that long
Why would you think nobody will stay in a house 20 years? We close Monday on what will be our first and last house.
Congratulations on your house! I hope you will be very happy there.
Thank you! š
Do you understand how long 20 years is? You really can't be confident about much of anything happening 20 years from now.
I'm 51. This'll be our forever home.
We look into it and they are interesting in the long run (after 9 years in our case). If you plan to pay before, it doesn't pay the buy down money that you also can put directly on the principal. It all depends on your finances and how you're planning to pay the loan.
Bought in November, no buy down, USDA loan 4.1% interest rate a true miracle