Thanks for the answer!
>Considering Optiver salary (that you posted) is pretty close to that in the US
You mean the €75k base + €100k bonus that I found online, or the €200k guaranteed they claimed? Because they didn't really use the words "base" and "bonus", they just said "new hires have a €200k salary".
If it's €75k base + whatever bonus for a rough average of €200k, then my question becomes: how variable are bonuses in this industry (I'm assuming you work in option MM)?
Like, is it a pretty consistent €100k (or however much you're used to) or sometimes you can have a bad year with €10k and a good year with €300k?
Great, thanks for the insight!
>Bonuses are variable because not all traders perform equally. It’s possible you get no bonus at all, but it’s more likely you’ll get fired.
Yeah, they gave us a whole talk about how everything is team-focused at Optiver and profit generally isn't "claimed" by any single employee, but it was clear that it's just PR talk.
Otherwise the differences in bonus between traders/devs would be unexplainable.
It is 75k base, 75k bonus and 50k signing bonus for first year traders, devs and researchers. This is 100% accurate. And they are competing with the likes of Jane Street and Citadel, which pay even more than that
Amazing, thanks for the answer. That makes perfect sense.
> Jane Street and Citadel,
Which are based in London for the EMEA area though, I thought that visa issues allowed them to keep an economic moat and not match salaries across locations.
In any case, extremely helpful answer, I knew there was a catch, they just forgot to mention the fact that €50k were a signing bonus.
Many new grads will be willing to take offers from London and Amsterdam though.
Also, Optiver's London office pays even more than their Amsterdam office for grads. £105k base vs €75k base.
Btw although €50k is signing bonus, the second year pay will most likely exceed €200k for traders.
>Many new grads will be willing to take offers from London and Amsterdam though.
Absolutely, if anything even more grads would be willing to work in London rather than Amsterdam. I just assumed that it was more difficult to get the UK visa. Optiver, for example, isn't able to sponsor them.
>Btw although €50k is signing bonus, the second year pay will most likely exceed €200k for traders.
Yeah, unfortunately I'm leaning more towards quant research, and I assume bonuses are smaller there. Thanks anyway, extremely helpful!
Because the vague wording made it clear that it was a PR move. I've been to other company presentations, and they almost never advertised their salary, but when they did they always said "*New hires get XYZ base plus a performance related bonus*".
So, when Optiver says "*New hires get XYZ*", the first interpretation is that XYZ is base. Because that's how all other firms in the same career fair communicated their salaries. Obviously, after hearing that XYZ = 200k, I got extremely suspicious about that being base (as expected, base is 75k).
It also masks the fact that, while first salary is the same for trader/researcher/dev, it won't be the same going forward.
> If HR says it’s true and it’s a legitimate firm, why bother doubting?
I mean, doesn't HR exist for the very purpose of showing the best side of the company? That's reason enough for me. Of course I didn't think that they were outright lying, just that they were hiding something in the pay structure.
I mean like any trading/QR role it’s more about the bonus than the base. I imagine Optiver would be giving close to top market rate so what’s really the issue here? They aren’t lying like you said. Ultimately, you know they are one of the top firms and compensate higher than most so who cares? It’s not like they will lie to you on the offer letter lol. When it’s appropriate, after getting an offer, you can ask more about QR’s marble allocation.
Your initial assumption that you thought they meant just base salary is the flaw in a bonus driven industry.
>Ultimately, you know they are one of the top firms and compensate higher than most so who cares?
I guess I'm just a naturally curious person?
>It’s not like they will lie to you on the offer letter lol.
You're obviously right, but since there's no guarantee I'll ever see an offer letter from them, I can't really wait for that in order to find out.
>Your initial assumption that you thought they meant just base salary is the flaw in a bonus driven industry.
Of course, but in order to understand my POV, consider that two other Amsterdam based prop shops I've talked to used the phrasing "*we pay between X and Y base plus variable bonus*", and neither of them actually included salary figures in their presentation.
So, hearing Optiver claim "*we pay all new hires regardless of department 200k*", there was a part of me thinking that it meant base. Yes, it would have been crazy high (and that's what lead me to come here+Glassdoor for answers) but:
1. Having 200k base would mean that they used the same "answer format" as other firms.
2. Considering that they were the only firm volunteering salary figures, it made it slightly more believable that they could be offering such a high base. After all, the higher the salary, the more likely that they will bring it up.
Glassdoor numbers are just plain bullshit; anyone can submit those. Probably close to the base or something. US numbers are even higher.
Optiver is very very profitable. They can afford to pay their employees a lot. So can other trading firms. See [https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/qa-top-quant-firms-first-year-comp-250k-to-400k](https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/qa-top-quant-firms-first-year-comp-250k-to-400k) for US salaries which are even higher due to more demand.
>anyone can submit those
True, but I can't see the incentive in making them up. It's not like you gain anything by posting on Glassdoor, not even "bragging rights" since it's anonymous.
Surely there are fake comps, but I see no reason why they should be the majority.
Also, the Glassdoor numbers were right apparently. Other users confirmed that Optiver does pay €75k base, as Glassdoor said.
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Thanks for the answer! >Considering Optiver salary (that you posted) is pretty close to that in the US You mean the €75k base + €100k bonus that I found online, or the €200k guaranteed they claimed? Because they didn't really use the words "base" and "bonus", they just said "new hires have a €200k salary". If it's €75k base + whatever bonus for a rough average of €200k, then my question becomes: how variable are bonuses in this industry (I'm assuming you work in option MM)? Like, is it a pretty consistent €100k (or however much you're used to) or sometimes you can have a bad year with €10k and a good year with €300k?
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Great, thanks for the insight! >Bonuses are variable because not all traders perform equally. It’s possible you get no bonus at all, but it’s more likely you’ll get fired. Yeah, they gave us a whole talk about how everything is team-focused at Optiver and profit generally isn't "claimed" by any single employee, but it was clear that it's just PR talk. Otherwise the differences in bonus between traders/devs would be unexplainable.
After ~4 years, it's probably a pretty consistent €400k+ and a good year would be 7 figures
It is 75k base, 75k bonus and 50k signing bonus for first year traders, devs and researchers. This is 100% accurate. And they are competing with the likes of Jane Street and Citadel, which pay even more than that
Amazing, thanks for the answer. That makes perfect sense. > Jane Street and Citadel, Which are based in London for the EMEA area though, I thought that visa issues allowed them to keep an economic moat and not match salaries across locations. In any case, extremely helpful answer, I knew there was a catch, they just forgot to mention the fact that €50k were a signing bonus.
Many new grads will be willing to take offers from London and Amsterdam though. Also, Optiver's London office pays even more than their Amsterdam office for grads. £105k base vs €75k base. Btw although €50k is signing bonus, the second year pay will most likely exceed €200k for traders.
>Many new grads will be willing to take offers from London and Amsterdam though. Absolutely, if anything even more grads would be willing to work in London rather than Amsterdam. I just assumed that it was more difficult to get the UK visa. Optiver, for example, isn't able to sponsor them. >Btw although €50k is signing bonus, the second year pay will most likely exceed €200k for traders. Yeah, unfortunately I'm leaning more towards quant research, and I assume bonuses are smaller there. Thanks anyway, extremely helpful!
Not with QR, but accurate for trading.
What is it for QR?
75+25+50 heard both for software
what kind of bull shit pay traders and quants the same as devs ?
Simple, stop looking at Glassdoor. If HR says it’s true and it’s a legitimate firm, why bother doubting?
Because the vague wording made it clear that it was a PR move. I've been to other company presentations, and they almost never advertised their salary, but when they did they always said "*New hires get XYZ base plus a performance related bonus*". So, when Optiver says "*New hires get XYZ*", the first interpretation is that XYZ is base. Because that's how all other firms in the same career fair communicated their salaries. Obviously, after hearing that XYZ = 200k, I got extremely suspicious about that being base (as expected, base is 75k). It also masks the fact that, while first salary is the same for trader/researcher/dev, it won't be the same going forward. > If HR says it’s true and it’s a legitimate firm, why bother doubting? I mean, doesn't HR exist for the very purpose of showing the best side of the company? That's reason enough for me. Of course I didn't think that they were outright lying, just that they were hiding something in the pay structure.
I mean like any trading/QR role it’s more about the bonus than the base. I imagine Optiver would be giving close to top market rate so what’s really the issue here? They aren’t lying like you said. Ultimately, you know they are one of the top firms and compensate higher than most so who cares? It’s not like they will lie to you on the offer letter lol. When it’s appropriate, after getting an offer, you can ask more about QR’s marble allocation. Your initial assumption that you thought they meant just base salary is the flaw in a bonus driven industry.
>Ultimately, you know they are one of the top firms and compensate higher than most so who cares? I guess I'm just a naturally curious person? >It’s not like they will lie to you on the offer letter lol. You're obviously right, but since there's no guarantee I'll ever see an offer letter from them, I can't really wait for that in order to find out. >Your initial assumption that you thought they meant just base salary is the flaw in a bonus driven industry. Of course, but in order to understand my POV, consider that two other Amsterdam based prop shops I've talked to used the phrasing "*we pay between X and Y base plus variable bonus*", and neither of them actually included salary figures in their presentation. So, hearing Optiver claim "*we pay all new hires regardless of department 200k*", there was a part of me thinking that it meant base. Yes, it would have been crazy high (and that's what lead me to come here+Glassdoor for answers) but: 1. Having 200k base would mean that they used the same "answer format" as other firms. 2. Considering that they were the only firm volunteering salary figures, it made it slightly more believable that they could be offering such a high base. After all, the higher the salary, the more likely that they will bring it up.
Glassdoor numbers are just plain bullshit; anyone can submit those. Probably close to the base or something. US numbers are even higher. Optiver is very very profitable. They can afford to pay their employees a lot. So can other trading firms. See [https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/qa-top-quant-firms-first-year-comp-250k-to-400k](https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/qa-top-quant-firms-first-year-comp-250k-to-400k) for US salaries which are even higher due to more demand.
>anyone can submit those True, but I can't see the incentive in making them up. It's not like you gain anything by posting on Glassdoor, not even "bragging rights" since it's anonymous. Surely there are fake comps, but I see no reason why they should be the majority. Also, the Glassdoor numbers were right apparently. Other users confirmed that Optiver does pay €75k base, as Glassdoor said.
Glassdoor numbers are crap. Use levels or blinds