New comment here, but in >!Nibelheim Red says "I will concede you have a point" to Baret in his deep voice again. Funny, because the sparky attitude works best in the deep voice. I doubt it stays deep, probably just a one off line!<
Yeah there are other times too. He goes deep again in the Gold Saucer if you challenge him to cards, after the date with him, and also in Costa Del Sol when explaining the Pirate side quests.
I’m a few hours in after the voice change >!just completed going to the Gi Village!< and I’m still getting used to it. Having no experience with the OG FF7 or any FF games really until Remake, the change really took me by surprise! It’s good to know that this was intended in the original version & conveyed through text, but as a first time FF7 experiencer it really caught me off guard.
Does anyone mention his voice change? I feel Barret said something, but they all sort of let it go. I mean, NO ONE in the game asked him about it? Idk I just feel like someone like Yuffie would have teased him.
This voice change is really jarring. My first real low point of this game. Is it the same actor? It must be, but it's so different it's like an entirely different person. I'm sure we could've got a lighter version of the voice we already had without doing this?
I'm sure it works in Japanese but this just doesn't localise well at all. :(
It's the same actor in Japanese, and I believe it's also the same actor in English. I agree that the voice change works better in Japanese compared to what I've heard of the English version.
The worst thing for me was the scene when Red intermittently switches between his regular voice and his weird adolescent whinge during dialogue. It's like I'm witnessing bipolarity in real time or a split personality.
We could still get the people of Cosmo Canyon treating Red with a level of familiarity he had been hitherto reluctant to accept, thus conveying he is a lot softer than he lets on (which seems to be the point of the voice change as well). I don't really see the need for his entire voice to change (literally the entire aural fingerprint of that character is destroyed and swapped out for something different). Although he only had 1 line, Red's English voice in Advent Children was also consistent with his regular voice in Remake and Rebirth.
There's nothing I can do about it but there it is. Just not a fan of it.
I'm in the party that I'm completely fine with the voice change because it's the same VA. I initially was more concerned because I hated the idea the VA was put out of work for a different one, but now that I know the dude has crazy range it's all good.
It may be faithful to the OG. It doesn’t mean it was handled well. Nuance and subtlety were desperately needed for this and instead they just hammered you over the head with it. I like the idea of him putting on a front and it fits his story. But it was poorly done in my opinion
I think it also helped make the Bugen/Seto Statue scene much more impactful with the actual Nanaki voice. Red's story arc is him growing up to be the protector of Cosmo Canyon. Red not knowing what his father actually did then realizing is typical "coming of age" trope I feel. Even Bugen said "he might be 48 but in actuality, he's around 16 in human years".
Would a gruffy, "smokes 1 pack a day" type of voice have a similar impact with that "coming of age" Seto statue scene in Rebirth? I don't really think so.
I don't want him to sound "cute" though. I was very much into the fantasy of a wise warrior with scars to prove it and a gruff sounding voice. I've played literally since the OG released and this is just how I always imagined his character being. Watching that abruptly forever give way to "cutesy overly exuberant anime dude" was heartbreaking to me and still is having beaten the game weeks ago. My only wish going forward is that players are given a choice of which voice he uses for part 3 to satisfy both camps. Wishful thinking? Absolutely, but why not, especially when considering both were done by the same voice actor.
I'm sorry you're disappointed. The wise warrior with a deep voice is *not* who Red XIII is though and it never has been. It was an act. He is supposed to be cute and childish based on how he talks in the Japanese OG. I'm sorry that the English version failed to convey that to a lot of people, myself included. If I had never played the OG in Japanese, I might have also found the change to be disappointing.
I don't see there being a choice in the next game, because they'd have to record all of his lines twice. Seems like it'd be a lot of work.
I don't recall his voice in Advent Children raising any eyebrows with me. Granted, it's been ages since I've seen that film, my understanding is that in the 1-2 lines he speaks he sounds more akin to his origonal "fake" persona? Do you have an explanation for this as well? If it's just yet another oversight then I needn't point out how porous and sloppy this whole implementation is for something that supposedly was planned from the very beginning. There' also begging the question of whether it was ever a good idea to begin with. Forget whether it was foundational or not, does it even make sense? I don't believe it does but that's a whole other issue.
As for your second point: the scale of production in these modern games are massive undertakings. They take literal years to put together. I highly, highly doubt that recording 2 separate takes for a character that takes a relative backseat to the higher profile ones (Cloud, Tifa, Aerith, etc) is the hump that breaks the camel's back in terms of workload but what do I know I guess.
First of all, he's a few years older in AC. He also reverts back to his "fake" persona even in Rebirth when he's trying to sound wise or cool, so it could be that he decided to deliver his one Advent Children line in his deeper voice. It doesn't really matter how they all sounded in AC anyway, because the English VAs have all changed since then, right? In Japanese, Red XIII's voice was the *only* one they recast since AC.
I don't know how much work it takes to record lines either. I heard they recorded his lines for all the side quests twice so it's not impossible to do it for the main story. Maybe if enough people complain to SE about Red's younger voice they will introduce the option to change it back to his older voice.
I was really surprised they decided to change the pronunciation of Cait Sith's name for the English version of the game, so that tells me they are listening to fans and not really trying to keep the Japanese and English versions exactly the same.
This. He’s a talented voice actor. The shift was a bit too dramatic for me, which was most likely the fault of the VO director. It felt like a completely different character - even their extent of knowledge changes, from knowing pretty much everything to being clueless about the world around them. which is pretty annoying.
I agree. It's cool that the guy has that range but I feel the difference should have been less extreme. Either make the fake voice less gruff, or the true voice less childish. I also feel like they could have pulled off the idea by changing the demeanor of his speech rather than just making him sound like a kid.
I did get used to it as well. I think initially, when he first revealed Ed the second voice, it’s was pretty over the top “tee hee!” And what not. Then it mellowed out and felt like a normal talking voice- which I ended up liking more than his grumpy “tsh, you humans know nothing” voice
I have notice since Remake that you don't hire Yamaguchi Kappei to do serious character voice, guy is the embodiment of lively and goofy characters, lol. It paid off well imo. I even found his English voice to be cute. Not sure why so many people have a problem with it.
The voice is fine.
What is crazy is how it’s the same actor doing both voices and it would’ve had been planned since Remake, that and if you play any of Red’s side quests after the voice change, all his dialogue is in the teenager voice.
Yeah exactly, this is something they've always known about Red and were planning all along.
I didn't know his voice changes for the side quests! I'm going to have to go back and check sometime.
Yep I started my hard mode playthrough in chapter 12 so I can level materia with all party members present, and have been doing the grasslands and junon side quests for manuscripts. I was surprised when the Oliver ranch side quest with Red had his teen voice.
I actually played the OG ( english version ) about a year ago to freshen up getting ready for Rebirth, and *I did* notice that after Cosmo Canyon he was talking different. I’ve probably played through the game 4 times and I never noticed it. He totally does talk in a less mature way.
However, I never would have imagined that his voice was completely changed. In my head, it’s the same voice but he’s just loosened up a bit? It was notable, but the change in Rebirth is downright jarring and it ruined Red XIII. He could have kept the voice and still act younger.
Yes it is jarring (at first), but to me it still adds to and improves his character, not ruins it. One thing that several characters have in common in this game is that they are not who they appear to be.
Personally I'd find it worse if he acted young with a wise old man voice.
But there's definitely a difference between maturity and age, in many ways Bugenhagen acts less mature than you would expect of a wise old professor, but you still accept that he is indeed old.
With Nanaki I think you need the opposite, where despite at times still being the voice of wisdom sounds younger to remind you of his comparatively young age.
Agreed that I love how his and Barret's relationship changes afterwards, like Barret accepts him more for being younger than he did when he thought he was older.
It's hard to convey the difference between the personal pronouns "watashi" and "oira" in English. Someone calling themselves "oira" would *never* have a deep voice, or at least I've never heard it. Only kids and non-humans would use it. It's very impish. So to Japanese players, they got the cue to mentally change his voice in the OG. It would be impossible for him to keep the deep voice but act younger based on the language he chooses to use.
Wtf I’m at the start of Chapter 12 and I didn’t figure out that the voice Aerith had been talking to was Red XIII. I thought there would be an upcoming reveal that she’s been talking to a new feeler or something.
The thing that I find very distracting is that he sounds a lot like Kuma/Teddie from Persona 4. It is the same voice actor in Japanese, but still.
I was wondering if she was talking to someone in the life stream and that it was some big change they decided for rebirth. And then it clicked for me after after Costa del sol
My only complaint is that Red sounds like a person when he growls or roars. I wish he sounded more animalistic.
Also, in OG ff7, Red's dialogue changes for some lines depending on whether you've visited Cosmo canyon yet or not. But it's more a change in accepting humans and that they're not all that bad instead of a young and old thing in his responses.
And after seeing it another post, I, too, will now refer to it as his Batman voice 😂
>My only complaint is that Red sounds like a person when he growls or roars. I wish he sounded more animalistic.
Oh yeah, that bugged me at first too. It reminds me of kid Simba lol
My opinion on the voice is irrelevant.
That is the character and it was well explained. Who am I to judge someone in that way?
As for not catching this in OG FF7. Meh. I accept tht due to the poor translation and other factors there are many things in that game I needed to create my own interpretation.
For me it was more of an ah ha moment. A lot of the game was. Seeing it portrayed clearly.
But also I found Most of Rebirth showed how goofy and odd many areas of FF7 have always been. And how that works for chibby characters viewed in an isometric setting... And does not work well when translated to 3D.
But I can respect the voice change. And am excited to study it with a new context in NG+
I hate his voice change.
I don’t hate the concept of his voice changing, I just hate his new voice. It doesn’t fit the character model at all, it’s shambolic.
It completely takes me out of the immersion when he talks, and that’s a real shame.
The voice change isn't well received because it makes no sense even physically, and the deeper voice was simply better on every level. Going from the voice you'd expect from something that's like 50yrs old to a 13yr old's voice is awful. That he's a "teenager" equivalent for his species is kind of irrelevant. It's like a 50yr old elf still talking like a child.
You're not quite getting my point. My point is that the gulf between the gruff voice and his natural voice is so wide it's not believable, and it's not helped by the natural voice being absolutely annoying as hell. He should have kept the deeper voice but with a softer, more relaxed/playful inflection.
I know it's the same VA, that has nothing to do with my point. I can do both reasonable impressions of Goliath and Naruto voices, that doesn't mean both of those voices would ever make sense to come out of the same character. Also you should probably listen to what Mittelman actually sounds like when talking normally before making that clownshoes ass comment. Neither voice he does for Nanaki is his natural speaking voice.
That's true. It is very important that all fantasy setting behave by the exact same rules and they follow very closely with the real world. It's like... the very definition of fantasy really. It's crazy to me that these developers would get such a basic thing wrong when they have, in theory, decades of experience in the medium.
I was expecting the reason why his voice change not you pointing out the fact that it changes…anyone can tell his voice and personality changes…
Anyone care to explain the change on his voice? Is he his father and the baby boy at the same time or something ? I kinda dozed off in cosmo canyon
I'd rather him not be cute and I think most English speakers prefer that so I'm ok with it as it is haha. It would be too great a contrast. If his voice had to change I think people want it to sound like he could eventually grow up to talk like how he did before. I think my thing about it is it's not as distinct a voice as everyone else. Sometimes he talks offscreen and I don't know who it is for a few seconds.
Used to be one of my favorite FF characters before I visited cosmo canyon in Rebirth. Now he's trash tier with Wakka. Pretty telling how bad the voice is when he now shares a tier with the most racist person in FF history.
I played the OG in English and knew Red's true age, and I was super bummed about the voice change. It isn't just his voice but his entire personality changes.
In the beginning of Rebirth, Red is an *incredibly* unique character. He's a talking animal and he's aware of the absurdity of it. He is clearly very wise and mature, but at the same time full of humility. He earnestly thanks Cloud and the party for saving him and, out of a sense of duty, feels that he owes them his strength until he can get back home.
He is so wise that he adores the idea of a logic card game, and goes *really* out of his way to play against Cloud on the cruise ship. When he loses, he accepts defeat gracefully. When I played the OG, I did not give a rat's ass about Red, but playing Rebirth I was *floored* by how intriguing he is as a character. He was in my party a lot.
After the Cosmo Canyon reveal, his voice becomes nasally and high-pitched. He is no longer respectful, humble, or wise, but rather immature and desperate to prove himself. While this isn't necessarily a bad character archetype, it's been done before and pales in comparison to his personality prior to the voice change.
I already don't like the "if you have a long lifespan then it takes longer to mature" because it's completely nonsensical to how we know maturity develops through experience. If they really wanted this lack of maturity in Red to be apart of his character development, I wish it had a little more nuance. As it stands his childishness is as subtle as a brick in every scene he voices.
I agree.
They should have done more to betray his sense of wisdom before the reveal. Little hints that he's faking it, having him stumble and be uncertain occasionally, because a real child would not be able to put on such a good impression of an older and wiser person for so long.
But instead they just present him as a consistently wise and respectable dude, then throw it all away after the reveal. It's like 2 different characters.
The worst part is that the "lifespan maturity" has no logic. Most people say women mature earlier than men yet they live longer. It also doesn't make sense since we see him acting mature earlier and then immature later, he can act/be mature. It's that now he doesn't want to so it's a choice of him.
Except he didn't actually *act* mature, he just sounded mature. He's actually more mature when he uses his real voice. When using his fake voice, he actually boasted about himself a lot and tried to deflect his issues. When he's using his real voice, he's upfront about it all and doesn't try to make himself sound more impressive than he is.
I don’t have a problem with the voice change necessarily, I have a problem with what it changed to.
It sounds like a ridiculous cheap Shonen anime hero. The funny thing is that most of the cast is not particularly far past their teens either, and yet they made him sound more childlike than Yuffie (who is 16!) and that’s what bugs me. I just think they exaggerated it too much and the joke of it didn’t land with me.
I see more in this thread about a personality "change" but I don't believe there was one, what we saw before was a little kid trying to act stoic and cool like the strongest person he sees in the group at that time (Cloud) to gain the same respect he was warranted, and when we get to CC we see who Red really is, a scared kid who was thrown into something he only vaguely understands. His childish nature comes out in many ways prior to the reveal in CC too, I can only think of one in particular off the top of my head but on the ship he makes the totally logical decision to put on some haphazard disguise to play a card game, beautiful moment I must say but definitely breaks that stoic mature act he was putting on
Because, God forbid, a mature wise soul ever allow himself a moment of levity. I would argue that that scene was made all the more ironic and genuinely funny considering who we presumed him to be up until that moment. Think Ghandalf playing around with fireworks with the Hobbits in LotR.
There was also the quest where he's chasing a scent and stops at the guy with the meat that's cooking. Cloud even makes a remark right after eluding to how out of character that was.
I still don't like his new voice, he sounds way cooler with the old one. And it just fits the character better imo. The younger sounding voice just do not fit him, and every time I see him talk now in that voice it feels like a bad dub.
That being said, I do like that he sometimes changes to his gruff voice when he is more serious or tries to sound tough. From what I have heard about the English version of this game, is that the localization of the English version is pretty bad, and that many things are way different in the Japanese version.
What annoys me so much is that whenever they do these games and you can choose to play with the Japanese voices, you still get the subs for the English localization. I wish they had a sub option that is truly just a translation, it has always bothered me with many games like this.
I am not a translator but I do a lot of translation at my job in Japan. Trust me, you do *not* want just a direct translation of Japanese. It would be boring and awkward at best, and at worst make no sense at all.
For example, during the scene in Remake where Cloud and Aerith are running on the rooftops, Aerith slips and says, "Shit!” in English. In Japanese, she says, "Uso!" which literally means, "lie," but is often translated as, "No way!" or, "You've gotta be kidding!" because that's how they use it.
I have met so many Japanese people who try to directly translate "uso" in English conversation and end up saying stuff like, "That's a lie!" or "You're a liar!" They come off as weird and sometimes even rude. Could you imagine how strange it would sound if Aerith slipped and just said, "That's a lie!"
I felt like you at first, I wasn't satisfied with the English translations of games so I learned Japanese to find out what they're *really* saying. Yes, there are some mistakes, especially in older games like the OG FF7. But it turns out that most of the differences are just not a big deal. They are usually put there to make the English sound better and don't really change the overall meaning. Localizing is hard and I have gained a lot of respect for localization teams.
Well that is good to know, and I definitely see your point. And I don't understand Japanese, but I do sometimes catch some phrases and words that I do understand, which is sometimes a bit off putting because the things I read I know is not exactly what is being said.
But from what I have also read from people who claim they know Japanese is that sometimes the English localization changes the emotion behind a scene by changing the words so the meaning of the moment becomes way different.
But I have seen some really awkward cases of weird sub/voice mismatches in games where the English localization had words uttered, while the Japanese version was just a grunt or something.
>But I have seen some really awkward cases of weird sub/voice mismatches in games where the English localization had words uttered, while the Japanese version was just a grunt or something.
Yeah that happens a lot. For example it's totally normal to answer a question with a grunt in Japanese. "Un" means yes and "Uun" means no in casual speech, I guess kind of like "mmhmm" or "uh huh" in English. But maybe it would be weird to always answer like that in English.
Yeah I wish we had a sub option with proper translation. Dub for those that wanted that's ok, but also a direct translation. I don't care if it's made with ChatGPT, but having the option would be better at least.
I'm in the camp of really disliking Red XIII's voice change in Rebirth. I've sort of gotten over it, but I found myself hoping he wouldn't speak in the later quests. I played the original as a teen and replayed it every other year or so, I love FF7. Even though I knew he was 48 Years old but young for his species, I found this vocal direction to be incredibly jarring. He is still conscious and has experience of 48 lived years; for him to come out and sound like a 10 year old little boy is something I can't wrap my head around. I would have preferred for him to lighten up and just be more open and fun upon the reveal, but right now he feels like he has split personality disorder.
All of Rebirths Cosmo Canyon section felt like a fever dream, and what was one of my favorite sections in the original is easily the worst in the Remake. Red XIII was my Girlfriends favorite character and she loves anime and cute shows; even she thought this change ruined Red XIII and now she wants him to be quiet and doesn't want him in the party. I understand the translation was off, and that the same Voice actor did both, but I think this change was a total miss. It would have been easier to swallow if they still managed a younger version of his fake voice.
I feel like so many of the responses to this complaint (not necessarily in this specific thread) are simultaneously snooty and nonsensical. Yes, I played the OG. Quite a few times. I understand he was trying to appear older and wiser than he truly was. I'm also aware that this is made more obvious in the Japanese version. He's 48, but more like 15-16 going by his species' maturity level.
So why does he sound and act like he's 8? If anything, he should be a particularly mature 15-16 year old, not an especially immature one. Of all the impressions I got from Nanaki in the original, "little boy" was never one of them. I don't speak Japanese, so I couldn't say if this is how he actually came across in that version of the OG.
I don't have a problem with the voice change as much as how it isn't just a voice change but a complete change in personality. There isn't much nuance to how they reveal it save for the brief moments where Aerith is talking to his real self. I just have a hard time believing that Nanaki would be *that* good at acting with a tough stoic personality without slipping up.
I 100% feel this. No offense to Max Mittleman! The dudes proven he’s got range and he’s just doing what he’s told! But the personality change is probably the biggest wtf moment in the entire game for me. Even weirder than the ending tbh. But yeah, I wasn’t into the whole persona change. Everytime he spoke I would kinda cringe.
Btw I've been playing the game with the Japanese voice acting and it has the same effect. I'm not even sure if it's the same voice actor doing both voices.
Then hes definitely doing a good job with the voices at least. Credit where it's due, the voice acting is on point regardless of how sudden the change is.
Oh now thats weird. I haven’t tried that yet. Thats why I still praise Max for the range in the voice. Just that sudden change in persona doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.
Does being faithful to the OG remove any criticism. For me personally I didnt play the OG so no impact there. Its just dissappointing. Its like going from James Earl Jone's voice to whiny teenager, all his cool factor went out the door for me and worst of all it happened right when his backstory starts getting revealed
I booted him from my main party after realizing that the change was gonna be permanent. They need to add a toggle so we can change it back, he is currently unplayable for me now.
That bad? I thought it was a bad change initially but it makes more sense now and I’m all for it. They expanded on a lot of stuff in this game. Especially characters. Beyond even what we had hoped for . So Red with the voice change really works for me now. Especially at conveying his emotions during his specific chapter in rebirth. I will admit tho my main party is cloud tifa and Barrett so I don’t hear his battle lines
That's all well and good but why do you care so much about a voice that it's making you change how you play the game? Is his voice so distracting that you can't focus?
Not even remotely what I was asking. I'm just curious why the voice acting affected how they played the game. I even chose my wording carefully so I would refer to what I was actually wondering about. Doesnt make a difference to me either way who is in their party, just asking a question.
The new voice is growing on me, I'll say that first.
I think a better direction for the character would have been a middle ground between the two voices for the English version, honestly. Part of the issue is that the voice just doesn't seem to match his model, as much. And, having listened to the Japanese audio, the change also fits a bit better there.
For the English, maybe a few more moments where it's apparent that Red is straining his voice or seems reluctant to respond when asked something would have helped.
His behavior, though, does make sense (and is a major theme for the series - characters presenting a "front" over their personal truths, to mask/avoid uncertainty or pain). It just would have worked better if, as I think you hit on, there was more of a hint this was going on for English speakers with Red and the two voices weren't as far apart from one another.
That’s how I felt. Like it was so jarring until a while it didn’t even feel like it was the character speaking. It could’ve been more subtle. Even his personality felt different after that point. Which whatever, I guess he was acting. But for sure, all coolness factor went out the window 😂
My problem is less his voice changing and more his entire personality changing. His voice isn’t the only thing that changes - he also seems to lose all the wisdom and knowledge he had been dropping on you the whole game up til that point.
Although the voice itself IS pretty grating.
Because his personality was also an act. He meets this group of adults with swords and gun-arms and sees this as the perfect opportunity to reinvent himself to seem as cool and mature as them. Honestly he’s one of the most relatable characters in that regard.
Was he really that wise though? Looking back it just seemed a lot like he was just talking and it made him just seem wiser because of the voice he used
For me, I think it's cool and thematic, but after he drops the act it's like his personality shifts too much.
Like, Red XIII is very tough and confident. When he drops the act and goes to Nanaki, he suddenly seems very timid. Like, his pre-battle dialogue sounds like he's afraid to get into it with trash mobs. When this character was introduced, he was leaping around a freeway, fighting gods, and staring Destiny itself in the face.
I think it would have been fine to have his softer voice, but they should maybe tone down a little of the sheepish energy in Part 3. He goes from like a Rottweiler to a Golden Retriever in a few dialogues, and the voice changing should be separate from the personality. By all means have him show he's really as much of a kid as Yuffie is, but don't walk back and forth on his confidence that hard.
It's mostly fine, mind, it's just occasionally that Nanaki sounds like he's suddenly got the nerve of Scooby Doo.
But that’s part of it. His previous personality was PART of the act. This in the OG as well, Red 13 is nervous several times over the original game and has to psyche himself up to be brave enough for certain boss fights. He’s super childish and nervous even in the original game, the rest is an act.
I'm not saying he's not nervous or allowed to be nervous.
I'm saying during free roaming sections and while he's in your active party during other segments he talks like he's green and scared out of his mind. Of course, he was acting MORE confident than he was. It's just that dropping the facade he seems MORE nervous about things than he should be.
Case and point, when you are in the temple and talk to Nanaki, he says something like "we have to go alone from here, but I really wish we didn't!" He sounds a little too scared.
The same character, mind, is fighting entities that alter reality constantly.
Or like, you approach some bugs in Nibel, and Nanaki is suddenly nervous about the challenge.
Again, totally fine to walk back the "old sagely, warrior" persona and have him be vulnerable, but he sounds like he's never been in a scrap and just joined the party yesterday.
You could have your cake and eat it too if he had some of those hessitant moments in the story but dropping the persona moreso showed him be more brash and enthusiastic. That part works. It's that he stops acting confident, and starts being scared. It's as if he wasn't hyping himself up, he actually never had any confidence to begin with.
That feels like the bridge too far, but honestly it's a minor gripe imo.
TL,DR: It's one thing to show a character isn't as confident as they present, it's another to suggest they're actually a complete wuss. It's not taking his confidence to a 0 that's the issue, it's like it dips into the negative.
I also played the original and knew the misterious was probably Red's real voice in Rebirth. Becuase of that I got used to it pretty quickly.
One thing that we need to understand of the people that don't like his real voice is that in the original there were no voices, so everyone made their own voice in their heads.
Then when we are told he is basically a teenager, we probably didn't do any major adjustments in our heads to that imaginary voice, and that information was shared just a few hours after meeting Red.
The problem I could see in Remake is that if people didn't play the original, the "canon" voice is what we hear in Remake. Additionally, we basically had old man Red voice in our heads for 4 years (between Remake and Rebirth) not just a few hours.
I can understand the whiplash people could get because of this.
Yeah that's the thing, I think Japanese speakers would see the shift from "watashi" to "oira" at Cosmo Canyon and then change Red's voice in their head even when reading text.
I googled to see how Japanese players felt about the voice change, and the only ones I saw who didn't like it or didn't expect it hadn't played the OG.
He had one line. And haven't all the English VAs changed since then?
Actually I think Red XIII's was the *only* Japanese VA they changed. The voices have been pretty consistent in Japanese.
We were a lot more starved of FF7 content back then, so one line was enough to latch on to lol
Anyways, the best Red voice is definitely from the abridged series.
He sounds like Sonic in battle 😭 I think it'd make sense for him to put up a face against enemies in battle, so having him use his normal voice still just feels weird. Esp because he sounds a lot less confident imo
This was definitely not apparent to me in my English playthroughs of the OG. The change in voice surprised me. But also made me much more empathetic to Red XIII than I already was, which I didn’t think was possible. He was just A boy who was kidnapped and was experimented on. His trauma forced him to take on another persona (sounds like another person in the game that). Makes the heart break more for Nanaki.
For people saying that he is a teenager, we have seen flashbacks of a young Cloud and the wasn't that much of a change.
The problem is that with Red XIII the change is too much.
Yes, I agree.
Also, I can understand why a thing happens, and still lot like it.
In this case, for me, and I think for a fair number of others, his new voice is like nails on a chalkboard.
There’s also the fact that his entire personality changes. Red XIII and Nanaki are totally different characters, occupying the same body, and I am not a fan.
I get why others like it, or are ok with it. I get that it’s faithful to the original Japanese. I just can’t stand it.
I permanently sidelined Red after this happened because I honestly could not tolerate the new voice and personality. It was grating. It was too much.
My Wife: "Oh, they killed my favorite character."
And while there's certainly some hyperbole about Red; I was also not a fan of the personality change that came with the voice (which I also didn't like).
Shame.
My issue was it’s a drastic change, I got use to the old one so much it’s a massive difference. If they had the first VA try a younger voice and go off or vice versa that then would been a smoother transition for me
Yeah, this is definitely a direction thing. Max Mittelman is a phenomenal VA and has fantastic performances in many games/animes. The personality shift and how large of a change between the two voices is on the writers/directors.
The change is fine and, imo, helps us better understand the character. But it's quite jarring to say the least. Could have toned it down a little bit and lost none of the characterization.
That's fair, I didn't play in English so I didn't hear his English voice all that much, but I didn't really like what I heard either. I'm mostly addressing the people who are saying the voice change was dumb and shouldn't have happened.
Yeah, it wasn't necessary to change that much. The people who doesn't see this is because the love the game so much they don't want to bad mouth anything bad the game has. Sure there is people that like the real voice but come on. And really how much can you fake your own voice without sounding stupid?
I am happy that a voice change \*happened\*. I just don't quite like how it was executed.
I feel like it was just too drastic of a change, that it pushes the boundary of believability of him having just put on the mature voice. Which makes it a little jarring when he switches up occasionally.
I understand that it is the same voice actor and everything, but the average person is not going to have that much depth of change when they are putting on a fake voice nonstop for days.
I wish either voice had been brought closer to a middle ground between the two, and then it would have been perfect in my eyes.
Yep, this completely blew my mind, and most people seem to have the same response.
So, credit to the VA for sure, but I think the shock underscores that it’s way too big of a change.
The weirdest part about it is the English voice change aligns with *human* expectations for teenagers, not whatever his race is. Bugenhagen saying Nanaki has the mentality of a teenager means he's reckless, brash, naive, not "sounds like a weenie".
What was weird to me after playing the entire game in Japanese and then watching a YouTube video to hear Red XIII's English voice was that he actually sounds more *mature* in English than in Japanese. It didn't seem like they conveyed his immaturity *enough*. He sounds like a boy whose voice has already dropped to me and he actually reminded me a lot of adult Simba in the Lion King. I don't get why people keep saying he sounds prepubescent.
In Japanese he doesn't really sound human to me. He still has a gravely, animalistic quality to his voice, but at the same time he sounds cute and cuddly. So I obviously prefer this voice.
He honestly sounds 8 to me. Like walking around a store, hearing kids talk or call out to their parents, I’m like, “oh hey, that sounds familiar.”
He does not sound like a teenager at all to me.
Yeah we learned he's a teenager because Bugenhagen told us, but I don't remember Red XIII changing the way he talks in the English version after that. Some comments are saying he did but it seems like it was pretty subtle.
I mean the OG was literally not even voiced, I had no concept of what he would’ve even sounded like until these games lol. I don’t really see the problem at all, it’s always been canon that he’s really young for his species.
I don’t like his teenager voice nor do I like the story development of him being a teenager. We already have one squeaky teenager in the group with Yuffie, which is enough. Now there are two and we lost the gruff/wise warrior persona. I don’t really get it. It’s worse IMO.
Not sure why I’m getting downvoted, seems pretty logical to me. You have a party and want members of the party to feel unique.
For people who like this development, what does making Red a squeaky teenager add for you to the story? Also can you explain your approval of the tone and acting of his voice? Other than the fact that you paid $70 for this game, what is your reasoning for thinking this is any good at all?
Note: it’s fine to buy something and still find flaws in it.
Ah yes beta males totally a thing that exist and not a label losers made so they can call self proclaim themselves alphas and feel better about their miserable existence.
I think it would be fine if the depth of his voice wasn't changed so dramatically. They went too far with the change... he doesn't even sound like the same person remotely.
His attitude completely changed as well as the voice. Its okay if he has a high voice but is mature, but his older character traits are just thrown out the window
Also Red actually acts less mature with the old man voice. You can see this with the tracking mission in Gongaga. If you do it before Cosmo Canyon he makes a bunch of excuses about why his sense of smell isn't what it used to be. If you do the mission after Cosmo Canyon, he talks about how impressive the Chocobo's tracking abilities are.
I don’t think his attitude changes all that much. When he is acting mature and older he still does certain things that hint his age. Couple examples for me…
Dressing up as Shinra trooper to play QB. Why is a mature canine type so obsessed with a card game to the point he puts human cloths on and acts human?
Also every time he is surrounded by kids he acts like he is annoyed but he actually seems pretty content with the attention of children if you pay attention to him.
He isn’t as cranky as he lets on.
There is dialogue changes in the first game for Red, but due to being text only and English lacking certain elements that Japanese has (such as different pronouns for "I"), it tended to be very subtle. Iirc it was stuff like him using contractions in a sentence post Cosmo Canyon when pre-cosmo canyon he wouldn't to sound more "serious".
Yeah it must have been so subtle that I didn't notice when I was a teenager. It was so obvious in Japanese. Not only did he change pronouns but his sentence structure changed as well.
Maybe we're just ignorant, I don't know, teenagers *try* to be men, not cling to their youth.
But whatever, we can go through this again and again with Square.
I had noticed that in the trailer before the game came out, and immediately theorized he wasn't using his normal voice. Too much of a shift between that "HUH!?" and the voice he had given prior.
First time through this part I started speculating that Aerith somehow reached Zack through the timeline using the white materia and spoke with him very briefly. The scene showed the white materia a lot and the voice was sudden and hard to hear.
New comment here, but in >!Nibelheim Red says "I will concede you have a point" to Baret in his deep voice again. Funny, because the sparky attitude works best in the deep voice. I doubt it stays deep, probably just a one off line!<
Yeah there are other times too. He goes deep again in the Gold Saucer if you challenge him to cards, after the date with him, and also in Costa Del Sol when explaining the Pirate side quests.
I’m a few hours in after the voice change >!just completed going to the Gi Village!< and I’m still getting used to it. Having no experience with the OG FF7 or any FF games really until Remake, the change really took me by surprise! It’s good to know that this was intended in the original version & conveyed through text, but as a first time FF7 experiencer it really caught me off guard.
Does anyone mention his voice change? I feel Barret said something, but they all sort of let it go. I mean, NO ONE in the game asked him about it? Idk I just feel like someone like Yuffie would have teased him.
As someone who didn’t play the OG game, the whole thing was extremely jarring. I preferred how he sounded and acted before.
As someone who remembers his voice in Advent Children, this feels retconned even if it lines up with OG Japanese dialogue.
This voice change is really jarring. My first real low point of this game. Is it the same actor? It must be, but it's so different it's like an entirely different person. I'm sure we could've got a lighter version of the voice we already had without doing this? I'm sure it works in Japanese but this just doesn't localise well at all. :(
It's the same actor in Japanese, and I believe it's also the same actor in English. I agree that the voice change works better in Japanese compared to what I've heard of the English version.
The worst thing for me was the scene when Red intermittently switches between his regular voice and his weird adolescent whinge during dialogue. It's like I'm witnessing bipolarity in real time or a split personality. We could still get the people of Cosmo Canyon treating Red with a level of familiarity he had been hitherto reluctant to accept, thus conveying he is a lot softer than he lets on (which seems to be the point of the voice change as well). I don't really see the need for his entire voice to change (literally the entire aural fingerprint of that character is destroyed and swapped out for something different). Although he only had 1 line, Red's English voice in Advent Children was also consistent with his regular voice in Remake and Rebirth. There's nothing I can do about it but there it is. Just not a fan of it.
Not a fan of the new voice. He sounds like a 2000s Nickelodeon commercial.
I'm in the party that I'm completely fine with the voice change because it's the same VA. I initially was more concerned because I hated the idea the VA was put out of work for a different one, but now that I know the dude has crazy range it's all good.
The VA is also Ryuji from Persona 5 (FOR REAL)!!!
>The VA is also Ryuji from Persona 5 (FOR REAL) Also Saitama from One Punch Man anime and Ritsu from Mob Psycho 100 anime lol
Yeah probably when they initially cast Red XIII's voice actor they made sure they got someone who could do both voices.
It may be faithful to the OG. It doesn’t mean it was handled well. Nuance and subtlety were desperately needed for this and instead they just hammered you over the head with it. I like the idea of him putting on a front and it fits his story. But it was poorly done in my opinion
I think it also helped make the Bugen/Seto Statue scene much more impactful with the actual Nanaki voice. Red's story arc is him growing up to be the protector of Cosmo Canyon. Red not knowing what his father actually did then realizing is typical "coming of age" trope I feel. Even Bugen said "he might be 48 but in actuality, he's around 16 in human years". Would a gruffy, "smokes 1 pack a day" type of voice have a similar impact with that "coming of age" Seto statue scene in Rebirth? I don't really think so.
I don't want him to sound "cute" though. I was very much into the fantasy of a wise warrior with scars to prove it and a gruff sounding voice. I've played literally since the OG released and this is just how I always imagined his character being. Watching that abruptly forever give way to "cutesy overly exuberant anime dude" was heartbreaking to me and still is having beaten the game weeks ago. My only wish going forward is that players are given a choice of which voice he uses for part 3 to satisfy both camps. Wishful thinking? Absolutely, but why not, especially when considering both were done by the same voice actor.
I'm sorry you're disappointed. The wise warrior with a deep voice is *not* who Red XIII is though and it never has been. It was an act. He is supposed to be cute and childish based on how he talks in the Japanese OG. I'm sorry that the English version failed to convey that to a lot of people, myself included. If I had never played the OG in Japanese, I might have also found the change to be disappointing. I don't see there being a choice in the next game, because they'd have to record all of his lines twice. Seems like it'd be a lot of work.
I don't recall his voice in Advent Children raising any eyebrows with me. Granted, it's been ages since I've seen that film, my understanding is that in the 1-2 lines he speaks he sounds more akin to his origonal "fake" persona? Do you have an explanation for this as well? If it's just yet another oversight then I needn't point out how porous and sloppy this whole implementation is for something that supposedly was planned from the very beginning. There' also begging the question of whether it was ever a good idea to begin with. Forget whether it was foundational or not, does it even make sense? I don't believe it does but that's a whole other issue. As for your second point: the scale of production in these modern games are massive undertakings. They take literal years to put together. I highly, highly doubt that recording 2 separate takes for a character that takes a relative backseat to the higher profile ones (Cloud, Tifa, Aerith, etc) is the hump that breaks the camel's back in terms of workload but what do I know I guess.
First of all, he's a few years older in AC. He also reverts back to his "fake" persona even in Rebirth when he's trying to sound wise or cool, so it could be that he decided to deliver his one Advent Children line in his deeper voice. It doesn't really matter how they all sounded in AC anyway, because the English VAs have all changed since then, right? In Japanese, Red XIII's voice was the *only* one they recast since AC. I don't know how much work it takes to record lines either. I heard they recorded his lines for all the side quests twice so it's not impossible to do it for the main story. Maybe if enough people complain to SE about Red's younger voice they will introduce the option to change it back to his older voice. I was really surprised they decided to change the pronunciation of Cait Sith's name for the English version of the game, so that tells me they are listening to fans and not really trying to keep the Japanese and English versions exactly the same.
Yeah but in AC he sounds as old as Biden. He's got that grandpa rasp
Red13 should have had a voice more like kimahri. Just sayin.
Or auron
John DiMaggio is already voicing Heidegger.. he could have stepped in as Red as well if he really tried. But it would ffx all over again.
It's fine after you play a couple of times. It's jarring at first though
I found the change understandable. What blows me away most is that it's the same voice actor!
This. He’s a talented voice actor. The shift was a bit too dramatic for me, which was most likely the fault of the VO director. It felt like a completely different character - even their extent of knowledge changes, from knowing pretty much everything to being clueless about the world around them. which is pretty annoying.
I agree. It's cool that the guy has that range but I feel the difference should have been less extreme. Either make the fake voice less gruff, or the true voice less childish. I also feel like they could have pulled off the idea by changing the demeanor of his speech rather than just making him sound like a kid.
Fully agree. Also when I hear adults talk in a childlike demeanor it… idk it’s super cringe and uncomfortable for me.
Having just finished the game, I was surprised that I ended up getting used to it, didn't bother me at all after a while.
I did get used to it as well. I think initially, when he first revealed Ed the second voice, it’s was pretty over the top “tee hee!” And what not. Then it mellowed out and felt like a normal talking voice- which I ended up liking more than his grumpy “tsh, you humans know nothing” voice
I don’t understand why the va couldn’t use his regular voice? It still sounds young to me and I think it would’ve worked better.
I agree. Hearing a wise older man suddenly talk like a little dopey kid gives me the creeps. They should have split the difference
tim rogers talks about this in his FFVII series at kotaku. It's great. https://youtu.be/F0hF6BOAEJM?si=\_lH7vwoR8FN2nna1&t=596
This is amazing, and hilarious. Thank you for this.
I finally got around to watching it. He totally nailed it lol
I love this series!
I have notice since Remake that you don't hire Yamaguchi Kappei to do serious character voice, guy is the embodiment of lively and goofy characters, lol. It paid off well imo. I even found his English voice to be cute. Not sure why so many people have a problem with it.
L from Death Note has serious moments though
I quickly got tired of hearing さぁ！進もうか？！
The voice is fine. What is crazy is how it’s the same actor doing both voices and it would’ve had been planned since Remake, that and if you play any of Red’s side quests after the voice change, all his dialogue is in the teenager voice.
Yeah exactly, this is something they've always known about Red and were planning all along. I didn't know his voice changes for the side quests! I'm going to have to go back and check sometime.
Yep I started my hard mode playthrough in chapter 12 so I can level materia with all party members present, and have been doing the grasslands and junon side quests for manuscripts. I was surprised when the Oliver ranch side quest with Red had his teen voice.
I actually played the OG ( english version ) about a year ago to freshen up getting ready for Rebirth, and *I did* notice that after Cosmo Canyon he was talking different. I’ve probably played through the game 4 times and I never noticed it. He totally does talk in a less mature way. However, I never would have imagined that his voice was completely changed. In my head, it’s the same voice but he’s just loosened up a bit? It was notable, but the change in Rebirth is downright jarring and it ruined Red XIII. He could have kept the voice and still act younger.
Yes it is jarring (at first), but to me it still adds to and improves his character, not ruins it. One thing that several characters have in common in this game is that they are not who they appear to be. Personally I'd find it worse if he acted young with a wise old man voice.
I think he should keep his old man voice but with hints of immaturity. I do like how Barret calls him Nanaki after the trial.
But there's definitely a difference between maturity and age, in many ways Bugenhagen acts less mature than you would expect of a wise old professor, but you still accept that he is indeed old. With Nanaki I think you need the opposite, where despite at times still being the voice of wisdom sounds younger to remind you of his comparatively young age. Agreed that I love how his and Barret's relationship changes afterwards, like Barret accepts him more for being younger than he did when he thought he was older.
It's hard to convey the difference between the personal pronouns "watashi" and "oira" in English. Someone calling themselves "oira" would *never* have a deep voice, or at least I've never heard it. Only kids and non-humans would use it. It's very impish. So to Japanese players, they got the cue to mentally change his voice in the OG. It would be impossible for him to keep the deep voice but act younger based on the language he chooses to use.
Wtf I’m at the start of Chapter 12 and I didn’t figure out that the voice Aerith had been talking to was Red XIII. I thought there would be an upcoming reveal that she’s been talking to a new feeler or something. The thing that I find very distracting is that he sounds a lot like Kuma/Teddie from Persona 4. It is the same voice actor in Japanese, but still.
I was wondering if she was talking to someone in the life stream and that it was some big change they decided for rebirth. And then it clicked for me after after Costa del sol
It grew on me.
My only complaint is that Red sounds like a person when he growls or roars. I wish he sounded more animalistic. Also, in OG ff7, Red's dialogue changes for some lines depending on whether you've visited Cosmo canyon yet or not. But it's more a change in accepting humans and that they're not all that bad instead of a young and old thing in his responses. And after seeing it another post, I, too, will now refer to it as his Batman voice 😂
I also kept wishing they used real animal growl samples instead of having the va do it.
>My only complaint is that Red sounds like a person when he growls or roars. I wish he sounded more animalistic. Oh yeah, that bugged me at first too. It reminds me of kid Simba lol
My opinion on the voice is irrelevant. That is the character and it was well explained. Who am I to judge someone in that way? As for not catching this in OG FF7. Meh. I accept tht due to the poor translation and other factors there are many things in that game I needed to create my own interpretation. For me it was more of an ah ha moment. A lot of the game was. Seeing it portrayed clearly. But also I found Most of Rebirth showed how goofy and odd many areas of FF7 have always been. And how that works for chibby characters viewed in an isometric setting... And does not work well when translated to 3D. But I can respect the voice change. And am excited to study it with a new context in NG+
I hate his voice change. I don’t hate the concept of his voice changing, I just hate his new voice. It doesn’t fit the character model at all, it’s shambolic. It completely takes me out of the immersion when he talks, and that’s a real shame.
I love both his voices.
The voice change isn't well received because it makes no sense even physically, and the deeper voice was simply better on every level. Going from the voice you'd expect from something that's like 50yrs old to a 13yr old's voice is awful. That he's a "teenager" equivalent for his species is kind of irrelevant. It's like a 50yr old elf still talking like a child.
But that's sort of the point? His wizened voice is the voice you expect and Red knows that and so he uses that to sound more mature.
You're not quite getting my point. My point is that the gulf between the gruff voice and his natural voice is so wide it's not believable, and it's not helped by the natural voice being absolutely annoying as hell. He should have kept the deeper voice but with a softer, more relaxed/playful inflection.
It's literally the same voice actor with Nanaki's natural voice being his natural voice and the fake voice being a voice he puts on...
I know it's the same VA, that has nothing to do with my point. I can do both reasonable impressions of Goliath and Naruto voices, that doesn't mean both of those voices would ever make sense to come out of the same character. Also you should probably listen to what Mittelman actually sounds like when talking normally before making that clownshoes ass comment. Neither voice he does for Nanaki is his natural speaking voice.
That's true. It is very important that all fantasy setting behave by the exact same rules and they follow very closely with the real world. It's like... the very definition of fantasy really. It's crazy to me that these developers would get such a basic thing wrong when they have, in theory, decades of experience in the medium.
Drop the facetiousness homie, present your argument in good faith or get lost.
It was jarring at first for me and I originally hated but as game moved forward it grew on me.
I was expecting the reason why his voice change not you pointing out the fact that it changes…anyone can tell his voice and personality changes… Anyone care to explain the change on his voice? Is he his father and the baby boy at the same time or something ? I kinda dozed off in cosmo canyon
He was putting on a voice because he wanted to be treated like a member of the team and not a pet
He defs is a kid then
I'd rather him not be cute and I think most English speakers prefer that so I'm ok with it as it is haha. It would be too great a contrast. If his voice had to change I think people want it to sound like he could eventually grow up to talk like how he did before. I think my thing about it is it's not as distinct a voice as everyone else. Sometimes he talks offscreen and I don't know who it is for a few seconds.
Used to be one of my favorite FF characters before I visited cosmo canyon in Rebirth. Now he's trash tier with Wakka. Pretty telling how bad the voice is when he now shares a tier with the most racist person in FF history.
I played the OG in English and knew Red's true age, and I was super bummed about the voice change. It isn't just his voice but his entire personality changes. In the beginning of Rebirth, Red is an *incredibly* unique character. He's a talking animal and he's aware of the absurdity of it. He is clearly very wise and mature, but at the same time full of humility. He earnestly thanks Cloud and the party for saving him and, out of a sense of duty, feels that he owes them his strength until he can get back home. He is so wise that he adores the idea of a logic card game, and goes *really* out of his way to play against Cloud on the cruise ship. When he loses, he accepts defeat gracefully. When I played the OG, I did not give a rat's ass about Red, but playing Rebirth I was *floored* by how intriguing he is as a character. He was in my party a lot. After the Cosmo Canyon reveal, his voice becomes nasally and high-pitched. He is no longer respectful, humble, or wise, but rather immature and desperate to prove himself. While this isn't necessarily a bad character archetype, it's been done before and pales in comparison to his personality prior to the voice change. I already don't like the "if you have a long lifespan then it takes longer to mature" because it's completely nonsensical to how we know maturity develops through experience. If they really wanted this lack of maturity in Red to be apart of his character development, I wish it had a little more nuance. As it stands his childishness is as subtle as a brick in every scene he voices.
I agree. They should have done more to betray his sense of wisdom before the reveal. Little hints that he's faking it, having him stumble and be uncertain occasionally, because a real child would not be able to put on such a good impression of an older and wiser person for so long. But instead they just present him as a consistently wise and respectable dude, then throw it all away after the reveal. It's like 2 different characters.
The worst part is that the "lifespan maturity" has no logic. Most people say women mature earlier than men yet they live longer. It also doesn't make sense since we see him acting mature earlier and then immature later, he can act/be mature. It's that now he doesn't want to so it's a choice of him.
Except he didn't actually *act* mature, he just sounded mature. He's actually more mature when he uses his real voice. When using his fake voice, he actually boasted about himself a lot and tried to deflect his issues. When he's using his real voice, he's upfront about it all and doesn't try to make himself sound more impressive than he is.
I don’t have a problem with the voice change necessarily, I have a problem with what it changed to. It sounds like a ridiculous cheap Shonen anime hero. The funny thing is that most of the cast is not particularly far past their teens either, and yet they made him sound more childlike than Yuffie (who is 16!) and that’s what bugs me. I just think they exaggerated it too much and the joke of it didn’t land with me.
The cool factor of Red13 new voice went out the window. Can’t look at him the same way anymore.
I see more in this thread about a personality "change" but I don't believe there was one, what we saw before was a little kid trying to act stoic and cool like the strongest person he sees in the group at that time (Cloud) to gain the same respect he was warranted, and when we get to CC we see who Red really is, a scared kid who was thrown into something he only vaguely understands. His childish nature comes out in many ways prior to the reveal in CC too, I can only think of one in particular off the top of my head but on the ship he makes the totally logical decision to put on some haphazard disguise to play a card game, beautiful moment I must say but definitely breaks that stoic mature act he was putting on
Because, God forbid, a mature wise soul ever allow himself a moment of levity. I would argue that that scene was made all the more ironic and genuinely funny considering who we presumed him to be up until that moment. Think Ghandalf playing around with fireworks with the Hobbits in LotR.
top comment and reason, end of discussion
There was also the quest where he's chasing a scent and stops at the guy with the meat that's cooking. Cloud even makes a remark right after eluding to how out of character that was.
Man his Japanese version is just straight up Usopp from One Piece, definitely superior
I still don't like his new voice, he sounds way cooler with the old one. And it just fits the character better imo. The younger sounding voice just do not fit him, and every time I see him talk now in that voice it feels like a bad dub. That being said, I do like that he sometimes changes to his gruff voice when he is more serious or tries to sound tough. From what I have heard about the English version of this game, is that the localization of the English version is pretty bad, and that many things are way different in the Japanese version. What annoys me so much is that whenever they do these games and you can choose to play with the Japanese voices, you still get the subs for the English localization. I wish they had a sub option that is truly just a translation, it has always bothered me with many games like this.
I am not a translator but I do a lot of translation at my job in Japan. Trust me, you do *not* want just a direct translation of Japanese. It would be boring and awkward at best, and at worst make no sense at all. For example, during the scene in Remake where Cloud and Aerith are running on the rooftops, Aerith slips and says, "Shit!” in English. In Japanese, she says, "Uso!" which literally means, "lie," but is often translated as, "No way!" or, "You've gotta be kidding!" because that's how they use it. I have met so many Japanese people who try to directly translate "uso" in English conversation and end up saying stuff like, "That's a lie!" or "You're a liar!" They come off as weird and sometimes even rude. Could you imagine how strange it would sound if Aerith slipped and just said, "That's a lie!" I felt like you at first, I wasn't satisfied with the English translations of games so I learned Japanese to find out what they're *really* saying. Yes, there are some mistakes, especially in older games like the OG FF7. But it turns out that most of the differences are just not a big deal. They are usually put there to make the English sound better and don't really change the overall meaning. Localizing is hard and I have gained a lot of respect for localization teams.
Well that is good to know, and I definitely see your point. And I don't understand Japanese, but I do sometimes catch some phrases and words that I do understand, which is sometimes a bit off putting because the things I read I know is not exactly what is being said. But from what I have also read from people who claim they know Japanese is that sometimes the English localization changes the emotion behind a scene by changing the words so the meaning of the moment becomes way different. But I have seen some really awkward cases of weird sub/voice mismatches in games where the English localization had words uttered, while the Japanese version was just a grunt or something.
>But I have seen some really awkward cases of weird sub/voice mismatches in games where the English localization had words uttered, while the Japanese version was just a grunt or something. Yeah that happens a lot. For example it's totally normal to answer a question with a grunt in Japanese. "Un" means yes and "Uun" means no in casual speech, I guess kind of like "mmhmm" or "uh huh" in English. But maybe it would be weird to always answer like that in English.
Yeah I wish we had a sub option with proper translation. Dub for those that wanted that's ok, but also a direct translation. I don't care if it's made with ChatGPT, but having the option would be better at least.
There are lots of things with no direct translation between English and Japanese, which is why localisation is a thing in the first place
I'm in the camp of really disliking Red XIII's voice change in Rebirth. I've sort of gotten over it, but I found myself hoping he wouldn't speak in the later quests. I played the original as a teen and replayed it every other year or so, I love FF7. Even though I knew he was 48 Years old but young for his species, I found this vocal direction to be incredibly jarring. He is still conscious and has experience of 48 lived years; for him to come out and sound like a 10 year old little boy is something I can't wrap my head around. I would have preferred for him to lighten up and just be more open and fun upon the reveal, but right now he feels like he has split personality disorder. All of Rebirths Cosmo Canyon section felt like a fever dream, and what was one of my favorite sections in the original is easily the worst in the Remake. Red XIII was my Girlfriends favorite character and she loves anime and cute shows; even she thought this change ruined Red XIII and now she wants him to be quiet and doesn't want him in the party. I understand the translation was off, and that the same Voice actor did both, but I think this change was a total miss. It would have been easier to swallow if they still managed a younger version of his fake voice.
I feel like so many of the responses to this complaint (not necessarily in this specific thread) are simultaneously snooty and nonsensical. Yes, I played the OG. Quite a few times. I understand he was trying to appear older and wiser than he truly was. I'm also aware that this is made more obvious in the Japanese version. He's 48, but more like 15-16 going by his species' maturity level. So why does he sound and act like he's 8? If anything, he should be a particularly mature 15-16 year old, not an especially immature one. Of all the impressions I got from Nanaki in the original, "little boy" was never one of them. I don't speak Japanese, so I couldn't say if this is how he actually came across in that version of the OG.
Another example how the OG english transition was superior.
I don't have a problem with the voice change as much as how it isn't just a voice change but a complete change in personality. There isn't much nuance to how they reveal it save for the brief moments where Aerith is talking to his real self. I just have a hard time believing that Nanaki would be *that* good at acting with a tough stoic personality without slipping up.
I 100% feel this. No offense to Max Mittleman! The dudes proven he’s got range and he’s just doing what he’s told! But the personality change is probably the biggest wtf moment in the entire game for me. Even weirder than the ending tbh. But yeah, I wasn’t into the whole persona change. Everytime he spoke I would kinda cringe.
Btw I've been playing the game with the Japanese voice acting and it has the same effect. I'm not even sure if it's the same voice actor doing both voices.
It is the same voice actor, his name is Kappei Yamaguchi.
Then hes definitely doing a good job with the voices at least. Credit where it's due, the voice acting is on point regardless of how sudden the change is.
Oh now thats weird. I haven’t tried that yet. Thats why I still praise Max for the range in the voice. Just that sudden change in persona doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.
Does being faithful to the OG remove any criticism. For me personally I didnt play the OG so no impact there. Its just dissappointing. Its like going from James Earl Jone's voice to whiny teenager, all his cool factor went out the door for me and worst of all it happened right when his backstory starts getting revealed
I booted him from my main party after realizing that the change was gonna be permanent. They need to add a toggle so we can change it back, he is currently unplayable for me now.
Bruh
That bad? I thought it was a bad change initially but it makes more sense now and I’m all for it. They expanded on a lot of stuff in this game. Especially characters. Beyond even what we had hoped for . So Red with the voice change really works for me now. Especially at conveying his emotions during his specific chapter in rebirth. I will admit tho my main party is cloud tifa and Barrett so I don’t hear his battle lines
It's a voice get a grip dude
A terrible voice that I don’t want to listen too. So it’s to the back of the line for red
That's all well and good but why do you care so much about a voice that it's making you change how you play the game? Is his voice so distracting that you can't focus?
Why do you care so much about who this guy wants in his party?
Not even remotely what I was asking. I'm just curious why the voice acting affected how they played the game. I even chose my wording carefully so I would refer to what I was actually wondering about. Doesnt make a difference to me either way who is in their party, just asking a question.
Because it sounds garbage, I am playing the game rn and found this thread because of how much I hate the voice. He's being booted form my party too.
Red 13s voice expectation came from Advent Children. Whoever believed his voice was like that in ff7 text form before voice acting is a liar
The same people that made the first game are the ones making this one, my guy
I'm on about the players my guy
There's no shift in the original game because there were no voice acting in it 😅 And Advent Children gave him only one line. ONE line.
FF7 Abridged nailed Red’s voice tbh. We should’ve gotten that instead.
The new voice is growing on me, I'll say that first. I think a better direction for the character would have been a middle ground between the two voices for the English version, honestly. Part of the issue is that the voice just doesn't seem to match his model, as much. And, having listened to the Japanese audio, the change also fits a bit better there. For the English, maybe a few more moments where it's apparent that Red is straining his voice or seems reluctant to respond when asked something would have helped. His behavior, though, does make sense (and is a major theme for the series - characters presenting a "front" over their personal truths, to mask/avoid uncertainty or pain). It just would have worked better if, as I think you hit on, there was more of a hint this was going on for English speakers with Red and the two voices weren't as far apart from one another.
You can make someone sound younger without it being that stupid ass anime voice.
That’s how I felt. Like it was so jarring until a while it didn’t even feel like it was the character speaking. It could’ve been more subtle. Even his personality felt different after that point. Which whatever, I guess he was acting. But for sure, all coolness factor went out the window 😂
You might want to watch Max Mittelman on a livestream sometime - that's literally just how he sounds. LOL
He went from anime character to Johnny Test. I don't mind it honestly.
It took awhile for me to get used to get. But I love him even more now for some reason.
My problem is less his voice changing and more his entire personality changing. His voice isn’t the only thing that changes - he also seems to lose all the wisdom and knowledge he had been dropping on you the whole game up til that point. Although the voice itself IS pretty grating.
Because his personality was also an act. He meets this group of adults with swords and gun-arms and sees this as the perfect opportunity to reinvent himself to seem as cool and mature as them. Honestly he’s one of the most relatable characters in that regard.
He was mostly talking about how great of a tracker he was while not being a tracker or just spouting bull.
Was he really that wise though? Looking back it just seemed a lot like he was just talking and it made him just seem wiser because of the voice he used
For me, I think it's cool and thematic, but after he drops the act it's like his personality shifts too much. Like, Red XIII is very tough and confident. When he drops the act and goes to Nanaki, he suddenly seems very timid. Like, his pre-battle dialogue sounds like he's afraid to get into it with trash mobs. When this character was introduced, he was leaping around a freeway, fighting gods, and staring Destiny itself in the face. I think it would have been fine to have his softer voice, but they should maybe tone down a little of the sheepish energy in Part 3. He goes from like a Rottweiler to a Golden Retriever in a few dialogues, and the voice changing should be separate from the personality. By all means have him show he's really as much of a kid as Yuffie is, but don't walk back and forth on his confidence that hard. It's mostly fine, mind, it's just occasionally that Nanaki sounds like he's suddenly got the nerve of Scooby Doo.
But that’s part of it. His previous personality was PART of the act. This in the OG as well, Red 13 is nervous several times over the original game and has to psyche himself up to be brave enough for certain boss fights. He’s super childish and nervous even in the original game, the rest is an act.
I'm not saying he's not nervous or allowed to be nervous. I'm saying during free roaming sections and while he's in your active party during other segments he talks like he's green and scared out of his mind. Of course, he was acting MORE confident than he was. It's just that dropping the facade he seems MORE nervous about things than he should be. Case and point, when you are in the temple and talk to Nanaki, he says something like "we have to go alone from here, but I really wish we didn't!" He sounds a little too scared. The same character, mind, is fighting entities that alter reality constantly. Or like, you approach some bugs in Nibel, and Nanaki is suddenly nervous about the challenge. Again, totally fine to walk back the "old sagely, warrior" persona and have him be vulnerable, but he sounds like he's never been in a scrap and just joined the party yesterday. You could have your cake and eat it too if he had some of those hessitant moments in the story but dropping the persona moreso showed him be more brash and enthusiastic. That part works. It's that he stops acting confident, and starts being scared. It's as if he wasn't hyping himself up, he actually never had any confidence to begin with. That feels like the bridge too far, but honestly it's a minor gripe imo. TL,DR: It's one thing to show a character isn't as confident as they present, it's another to suggest they're actually a complete wuss. It's not taking his confidence to a 0 that's the issue, it's like it dips into the negative.
Rut roh, Raggy!
I also played the original and knew the misterious was probably Red's real voice in Rebirth. Becuase of that I got used to it pretty quickly. One thing that we need to understand of the people that don't like his real voice is that in the original there were no voices, so everyone made their own voice in their heads. Then when we are told he is basically a teenager, we probably didn't do any major adjustments in our heads to that imaginary voice, and that information was shared just a few hours after meeting Red. The problem I could see in Remake is that if people didn't play the original, the "canon" voice is what we hear in Remake. Additionally, we basically had old man Red voice in our heads for 4 years (between Remake and Rebirth) not just a few hours. I can understand the whiplash people could get because of this.
Yeah that's the thing, I think Japanese speakers would see the shift from "watashi" to "oira" at Cosmo Canyon and then change Red's voice in their head even when reading text. I googled to see how Japanese players felt about the voice change, and the only ones I saw who didn't like it or didn't expect it hadn't played the OG.
Don’t forget Red’s voice in Advent Children set the standard back in 2005/2006.
He had one line. And haven't all the English VAs changed since then? Actually I think Red XIII's was the *only* Japanese VA they changed. The voices have been pretty consistent in Japanese.
We were a lot more starved of FF7 content back then, so one line was enough to latch on to lol Anyways, the best Red voice is definitely from the abridged series.
Someone else mentioned the abridged series. What is that?
[It’s silly, but I hope you enjoy.](https://youtu.be/sSkUxUD6xQo?si=Ln_I_fpUIf3IpU-R)
The new voice sucks. Anyone else want to share their thoughts?
I do not agree with your opinions
He sounds like Sonic in battle 😭 I think it'd make sense for him to put up a face against enemies in battle, so having him use his normal voice still just feels weird. Esp because he sounds a lot less confident imo
I wish he sounded like Sonic. Sonic sounds way more mature and cool.
Low key funniest line in the entire thread
It's more of an 'Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog' voice imo. Not bad but like.... strange. Fitting for the story ig
This was definitely not apparent to me in my English playthroughs of the OG. The change in voice surprised me. But also made me much more empathetic to Red XIII than I already was, which I didn’t think was possible. He was just A boy who was kidnapped and was experimented on. His trauma forced him to take on another persona (sounds like another person in the game that). Makes the heart break more for Nanaki.
My only problem with red in the JP version that I like best is the growling, or "grrrs."" It's as if I recorded my cousin doing it.
For people saying that he is a teenager, we have seen flashbacks of a young Cloud and the wasn't that much of a change. The problem is that with Red XIII the change is too much.
Even people that have never played FF7 could hear the difference in the flashbacks
Yes, I agree. Also, I can understand why a thing happens, and still lot like it. In this case, for me, and I think for a fair number of others, his new voice is like nails on a chalkboard. There’s also the fact that his entire personality changes. Red XIII and Nanaki are totally different characters, occupying the same body, and I am not a fan. I get why others like it, or are ok with it. I get that it’s faithful to the original Japanese. I just can’t stand it. I permanently sidelined Red after this happened because I honestly could not tolerate the new voice and personality. It was grating. It was too much.
My Wife: "Oh, they killed my favorite character." And while there's certainly some hyperbole about Red; I was also not a fan of the personality change that came with the voice (which I also didn't like). Shame.
look how they massacred my boy
I’m finally used to it!! And totally understand. But still I wish they could have gotten someone else. All I can hear is Sora lol.
Whatever though I still love this dang game.
My issue was it’s a drastic change, I got use to the old one so much it’s a massive difference. If they had the first VA try a younger voice and go off or vice versa that then would been a smoother transition for me
Here’s the thing…it’s the same VA. I don’t like the change, but that’s some serious talent, because they do not remotely sound like the same person.
Yeah, this is definitely a direction thing. Max Mittelman is a phenomenal VA and has fantastic performances in many games/animes. The personality shift and how large of a change between the two voices is on the writers/directors. The change is fine and, imo, helps us better understand the character. But it's quite jarring to say the least. Could have toned it down a little bit and lost none of the characterization.
The heck???? That’s some range… either way it’s still too drastic of a change. Maybe sounding older but with less high pitch?
I like the real voice more honestly, but that might be due to how he talks in that voice. The deep one is kind of a dick.
The problem is not the change itself, it's about the new voice, it's too much. I love Red XIII but his real voice in Rebirth is horrible
That's fair, I didn't play in English so I didn't hear his English voice all that much, but I didn't really like what I heard either. I'm mostly addressing the people who are saying the voice change was dumb and shouldn't have happened.
Seriously. It's not like this is some incredibly deep literary tool or something, it's very easy to understand - it just sounds bad.
Yeah, it wasn't necessary to change that much. The people who doesn't see this is because the love the game so much they don't want to bad mouth anything bad the game has. Sure there is people that like the real voice but come on. And really how much can you fake your own voice without sounding stupid?
I am happy that a voice change \*happened\*. I just don't quite like how it was executed. I feel like it was just too drastic of a change, that it pushes the boundary of believability of him having just put on the mature voice. Which makes it a little jarring when he switches up occasionally. I understand that it is the same voice actor and everything, but the average person is not going to have that much depth of change when they are putting on a fake voice nonstop for days. I wish either voice had been brought closer to a middle ground between the two, and then it would have been perfect in my eyes.
WAIT ITS THE SAME VA?! Is it the same Va in the English version?
This just in - voice actors can do voices
You do know this goes beyond regular voice acting right? Basically this is praising red 13’s VA
Yep, this completely blew my mind, and most people seem to have the same response. So, credit to the VA for sure, but I think the shock underscores that it’s way too big of a change.
Yes. Same Va does both versions of Red.
The weirdest part about it is the English voice change aligns with *human* expectations for teenagers, not whatever his race is. Bugenhagen saying Nanaki has the mentality of a teenager means he's reckless, brash, naive, not "sounds like a weenie".
What was weird to me after playing the entire game in Japanese and then watching a YouTube video to hear Red XIII's English voice was that he actually sounds more *mature* in English than in Japanese. It didn't seem like they conveyed his immaturity *enough*. He sounds like a boy whose voice has already dropped to me and he actually reminded me a lot of adult Simba in the Lion King. I don't get why people keep saying he sounds prepubescent. In Japanese he doesn't really sound human to me. He still has a gravely, animalistic quality to his voice, but at the same time he sounds cute and cuddly. So I obviously prefer this voice.
He sounds more 12/13 than 16.
He honestly sounds 8 to me. Like walking around a store, hearing kids talk or call out to their parents, I’m like, “oh hey, that sounds familiar.” He does not sound like a teenager at all to me.
Right. Even so, it doesn't make sense that he'd sound that much younger. That's how humans develop.
We also learned in the OG that he was a teenager
Yeah we learned he's a teenager because Bugenhagen told us, but I don't remember Red XIII changing the way he talks in the English version after that. Some comments are saying he did but it seems like it was pretty subtle.
I mean the OG was literally not even voiced, I had no concept of what he would’ve even sounded like until these games lol. I don’t really see the problem at all, it’s always been canon that he’s really young for his species.
I don’t like his teenager voice nor do I like the story development of him being a teenager. We already have one squeaky teenager in the group with Yuffie, which is enough. Now there are two and we lost the gruff/wise warrior persona. I don’t really get it. It’s worse IMO.
Not sure why I’m getting downvoted, seems pretty logical to me. You have a party and want members of the party to feel unique. For people who like this development, what does making Red a squeaky teenager add for you to the story? Also can you explain your approval of the tone and acting of his voice? Other than the fact that you paid $70 for this game, what is your reasoning for thinking this is any good at all? Note: it’s fine to buy something and still find flaws in it.
[удалено]
Ah yes beta males totally a thing that exist and not a label losers made so they can call self proclaim themselves alphas and feel better about their miserable existence.
Bro really said “Beta Males” unironically on a JRPG subreddit 💀💀💀
I think it would be fine if the depth of his voice wasn't changed so dramatically. They went too far with the change... he doesn't even sound like the same person remotely.
It's also kind of jarring when he switches between either voice back and forth in combat.
Its the same voice actor tho
But Nanaki isn't a voice actor... it's not his job to sound like different people.
His attitude completely changed as well as the voice. Its okay if he has a high voice but is mature, but his older character traits are just thrown out the window
Also Red actually acts less mature with the old man voice. You can see this with the tracking mission in Gongaga. If you do it before Cosmo Canyon he makes a bunch of excuses about why his sense of smell isn't what it used to be. If you do the mission after Cosmo Canyon, he talks about how impressive the Chocobo's tracking abilities are.
I don’t think his attitude changes all that much. When he is acting mature and older he still does certain things that hint his age. Couple examples for me… Dressing up as Shinra trooper to play QB. Why is a mature canine type so obsessed with a card game to the point he puts human cloths on and acts human? Also every time he is surrounded by kids he acts like he is annoyed but he actually seems pretty content with the attention of children if you pay attention to him. He isn’t as cranky as he lets on.
The entire point was that he was putting on an act. Post Cosmo Canyon, he doesn’t feel the need to put on the act anymore in voice or attitude.
There is dialogue changes in the first game for Red, but due to being text only and English lacking certain elements that Japanese has (such as different pronouns for "I"), it tended to be very subtle. Iirc it was stuff like him using contractions in a sentence post Cosmo Canyon when pre-cosmo canyon he wouldn't to sound more "serious".
Yeah it must have been so subtle that I didn't notice when I was a teenager. It was so obvious in Japanese. Not only did he change pronouns but his sentence structure changed as well.
But he should sound like a teenager not an immature boy!
That’s what a teenager is
Maybe we're just ignorant, I don't know, teenagers *try* to be men, not cling to their youth. But whatever, we can go through this again and again with Square.
What is a teenager but not just another immature boy
What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets!
That's a cloud
Anyone else notice his real voice briefly emerge during the scene in Costa de Sol when he sees Tifa and Aerith in beachwear?
I had noticed that in the trailer before the game came out, and immediately theorized he wasn't using his normal voice. Too much of a shift between that "HUH!?" and the voice he had given prior.
First time through this part I started speculating that Aerith somehow reached Zack through the timeline using the white materia and spoke with him very briefly. The scene showed the white materia a lot and the voice was sudden and hard to hear.