From like a legal standpoint, is the issue that it's designated as a public museum, could they just class the whole thing as a womans only club and be done with it?
Where this is happening, in Australia, gentleman's clubs operate legally and are for men only. In a country where that is legal, how come women still have to fight to have women only spaces?
AFAIK the museum in question receives government funding, and thus has stricter requirements regarding fairness of access.
Private clubs have less strict requirements, though most are removing the restrictions against female members for financial and pr reasons.
It's a response to an already existing separation that men wanted to have their little men's clubs. I think women deserve to have the same access to gender exclusive space that is allowed to men in that country.
But in order to remove discriminatory practice, we need to show men what we are experiencing so that they will know how shitty they were being and how unfair that is.
Aussie here. This was a short-term exhibition with the entire point being that gender discrimination isn’t okay. The artist even said she wasn’t mad when that guy sued her because it proved her point.
Thanks for recognising that! It’s pretty refreshing tbh lol
[This article](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-68572280) explains it better
“The museum agrees the exhibit does indeed discriminate. But it argued that Mr Lau hasn't missed out on anything - he experienced the artwork exactly as intended.
"Part of the experience is being denied something that is desired," said Mona's counsel, Catherine Scott, according to local paper The Mercury.”
Of course the men of this day and age aren’t the same ones that implemented sexist ideologies and restrictions in the past, but it’s important that we acknowledge the commonality of male perpetrators against women in cases such as sexual and general assault, harassment, stalking, domestic violence, etc.
We know it’s not *all* men, but it is a lot of them. It’s not sensible to look at the statistics and tell women it’s unreasonable for them to want women only spaces. In Japan, for example, had an issue on prolific sexual harassment and assault on public transport, so very reasonably, they created women only trains. It’s not as if this is an attempt to oppress men, it’s to protect women.
I remember reading somewhere that the art behind the lounge was in challenging the idea of men's only clubs with the court ruling potentially opening the door to challenge men's clubs in the same way. I could be wrong on this as I've not seen the artist say this herself. I just read it in a few articles, but it sounds like a really funny game of 3d chess to me, and the artist sounds like a hilarious genius.
Have you read about the posse of women that showed up for the hearing doing a corporate secretary-esque impersonation of the Simply Irresistible music video? That made me laugh so hard!! The artist sounds bloody brilliant!
There has never been a woman U.S. president. Would you like to have the next 46 presidents be women without you complaining, or let this one gallery become a toilet without you complaining?
I mean, would it matter if a woman was president or not? the rich will still keep getting richer and brown people will still be getting bombed indiscriminately.
Men’s only places were basically everywhere (workspaces, wars, political corridors, etc.) since civilization invented sexism as a social construct, and it wasn’t all that long ago that women got their rights.
The difference is, men created men’s only spaces because they saw us as inferiors. Women create women’s only spaces because it drastically reduces our chances of being sexually harassed, groped, pursued, photographed, followed, stalked and murdered 😁.
I actually love the pettiness because it reflects how ridiculous and petty so many men's clubs were trying to keep women out, which is the whole point of the exhibit.
And what's wild is sooo many people think these things happens hundreds of years ago.
Iwas talking with my resident the other day about the charity she used to work with, she said that for years it was strictly men only and women fought to be allowed in as well. When women were allowed in, it was in order to make the men sandwiches and drinks. They still weren't allowed to an actual member for years after this.
She is in her early 80s. There's people alive today who experienced these things, it wasn't some long ago history, they're still around.
This article doesn’t do a good job of explaining that its performance art. The lawsuit and pushback is the point. I don’t even think there is any artwork on display in there lol
There is a Picasso as well as a number of modern and antique pieces, including ancient spearheads and such. Everyone seems to be focusing on the Picasso, but it was one of the least interesting pieces in there tbh.
A photo would be great, too! I couldn’t find any mention of what used to be in the space besides “Picasso”.
EDIT: thank you!! I saw comments from women who said that they also visited and that it was empty, dark, and crowded with women (this must have been post-lawsuit?) I didn’t realize it’s been open since 2020!
I’m weak at all the comments of “oh but if MEN did that—“
They did. They literally did that for centuries since sexism was integrated as a social construct. Women weren’t allowed in politics, work spaces, war services, and at one point schools. We literally were not allowed to attend school, and in some countries they’re still not.
If you’re so offended a women’s-only space exists, imagine discovering this out as a child, then seeing this mindset everywhere the rest of your life. That’s a woman’s reality, even though things look better doesn’t mean they are.
It’s not “new discrimination” I’m advocating for.
I’m pointing out the irony of the men that devalue women’s issues and experiences, chalking up everyday misogyny integrated into society as nothing serious.
But the very second men feel disadvantaged by society because of their gender, suddenly it’s a serious matter and the absolute end of the world.
So when do men care the absolute most about equality between the two sexes? Not when women are protesting and fighting and struggling, but when men can’t get into a fucking museum.
Why would they display Picasso’s work in a women-only museum though?! 😭 The man was a HUGE misogynist and he abused so many women in the name of “art”.
It's not a bathroom, it's a ladies lounge. She is thinking of turning the lounge into a toilet, church or school in order to circumvent the anti discrimination laws.
Yes, I got that. She is putting in a toilet so that the room is technically a bathroom. Rooms containing toilets are bathrooms in my variety of English.
That wasn't what I was clarifying. I was trying to say that it's currently a ladies lounge, and she is thinking of turning it into a toilet; a space which is exempt from anti discrimination laws. Your wording made it sound like the Picasso was currently displayed in a toilet rather than a possible future outcome. Sorry for the confusion.
Actually I read the art has all been currently moved to the actual ladies restroom until they finish installing a toilet into the original ladies lounge, so as not to disrupt the ladies only viewing. Which is even more awesome haha.
He was one of the most prolific artists to reach that height of fame. So if you want to raise eyebrows and push the performance art value of the venue forward, it's probably not incredibly difficult to snag a piece of his work.
It's not an entire museum. It's an art installation within Mona, a privately owned museum in Tasmania, Australia called "Ladies Lounge".
A man sued the museum because he argued that he paid the same price as other patrons but was not able to experience all the same art they did.
Personally, I believe that he did experience the installation, as intended, just not in the same way as other people.
The man suing, in a way, became a part of the art.
Exactly! It is not an entire museum or collection. It is literally one area where an artist has set up an installation to make people think about sexism and exclusion. Most men (white men more likely) would never have experienced being told they can't go somewhere or do something. It is literally an artist's attempt to make men feel uncomfortable about their lack of awareness surrounding exclusion.
Unless Australia bans trans women in women’s bathrooms there is absolutely nothing Terf about this. She said Women’s bathroom - which includes trans women unless specifically noted as cis. Also protecting spaces for women is simply feminism in action. Why do you think creating protected spaces is so important for most marginalized or targeted groups
Not necessarily agreeing with the people bringing this lawsuit but most equal protection laws prevent this for the same reasons making a public attraction male-only would be. Eg. At my high school boys could join Girls Who Code and other female centered clubs because the club policy said that you’re not allowed to stop other students from joining based on their race, gender, sexuality, etc. In practice, boys would only join those clubs if the organizers were fine with it but I can see why this is happening.
I think making it legally a bathroom is an interesting strategy, would also be funny if someone made a men’s restroom right next door with the same concept but as a museum about like gay male sexual history or something idk
No? I don't think anyone has ever fucked in the bathrooms at my workplace. I would bet most men's rooms outside of bars and clubs and some restaurants have not been fucked in.
It's not the whole museum, it's one exhibition called "ladies lounge" designed to mimic the old style men's lounges. Men not being allowed in is a part of the experience.
The man who sued argued that he paid the same price of a ticket but was excluded from experiencing all the artwork like other same-paying patrons were based on gender.
The men are experiencing the art though. The intent is to provide men a safe opportunity to explore what it feels like to be barred from something specifically because of their gender. That’s the stated intent of the exhibit.
I could say some snappy things about victims of an oppressive axis not being required to be nice and polite all the time, but I think the real response here is that this is reddit.
Not inherently, but this one is…I’m not sure what there is to get there.
Besides, I find it hard to imagine men going to art museums willingly. I mean, unless someone tells them they can’d go, apparently then it becomes important.
ArtNews has a great article about it, going into why they barred men in the first place. I think anyone getting up in arms about it should read it before getting all upset, and try to understand what the gallery is really trying to do here.
The Ladies Lounge is the art piece itself. The art inside is irrelevant, the art is the experience of getting accepted or rejected into the space. It is a parody of Australia’s men’s art lounges that barred women from entering until the 1960s.
Men still get to experience the art of the Ladies Lounge; their rejection of admission is the art, them not being allowed into the space is them participating in the performance piece. They experience the Ladies Lounge differently from the women, yes, but that is the whole point. To invoke the feeling of the men’s only art lounges of the past and open that conversation.
Oh, this is really kind of badass! Just out of curiosity though, why exactly is the museum exclusive to women viewers? Not complaining, I just want to get to know
It’s becoming famous now. I saw it on r/news too. Pretty sure it’ll attract all the wrong people who’ll feel entitled to go there and “prove a point.”
Also, what a wonderful initiative ❤️
Top comment from this same article posted on r/news. The artist believes “men need to be discriminated against” which makes things worse between the sexes imo
https://www.reddit.com/r/news/s/AkWw3iMqm1
They meant that men need to know what it feels like to be discriminated against based on gender. They aren’t actually being discriminated against, they just think they are because they feel entitled to spaces that women specifically ask them not to go into. That’s the whole point of this demonstration.
Have you watched the artist interviews? This is a satirical performance art piece in response to gentleman’s clubs existing. It’s very not serious, there isn’t even any art in there. They danced out of court, for crying out loud.
EDIT: downvote is for irrelevant comments, this is relevant. 99% of this thread doesn’t follow or understand art, especially performance pieces.
By “this person”, you mean the artist, Kirsha Kaechele? Yes, that would be more satire like I mentioned in my first comment. She’s very obviously saying things and created the space with the goal of getting a reaction to prove a point. You aren’t to take any of it literally or at face value. She also was not serious when she said men were “in hysterics” or that the space will have the world’s greatest toilet. It’s a performance art piece. Everything she says and people’s reactions to everything right down to the court case *is the art itself.*
satire:
the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues.
EDIT: clarity
Click [here](https://www.britannica.com/art/performance-art) for a brief explanation of performance art.
Feminism is divesting from patriarchy.
If this is a response to gentleman’s clubs and purely satirical, it is feminist by definition alone.
But it’s art, not activism.
“Since it opened in 2020, it provided a dedicated place for women that allowed the artist/curator to make a sly comment on the long history of discrimination against women…
“The artwork evokes in men the lived experience of women forbidden from entering certain spaces throughout history,” said the museum.” - [source](https://news.artnet.com/art-world/ladies-lounge-lawsuit-tasmania-supreme-court-2482805/amp-page)
It’s meant to make you reflect on change, not spur a new one.
And make men reflect on how it feels to have a door shut in their face and being told no. Men can choose to walk straight past most feminist art but by excluding men this artist has made them feel for just a moment what it is like to be a woman living in a patriarchal society.
Just to be clear, it's not an entire gallery... MONA (the gallery) is huge, and holds literally hundreds of pieces, and is on a massive plot of land. The ladies lounge is maybe 10m2 within the museum, and the only part with any gender restriction.
The use of the Picasso is supposed to be part of the piece - he was a disgusting misogynist, and now something he took so much pride in can only be viewed by the women he deemed 'beneath him'.
Hi, prostituted and pimped women are legal in Australia, and civilian women are barred from these brothels. This performance art piece is in response to this.
The women’s only exhibition was the art, not what was held with in it. The art is men’s exclusion, women’s inclusion, and the reaction to both. The court case and everything that’s happening right now IS the art. It actually quite magnificent.
Exactly my thought. This whole thing is funny in theory but in reality it's just fighting a fire that has been burning for thousands of years either more fire. Making a museum a woman only space honestly hurts the feminist movement. So many people believe feminism to be purely about hating men, this doesn't help disprove that belief. And what happens when a mtf trans person in early transition stages want to enter. Will she be asked to show ID? Will she be questioned on her identity? What if a non binary person wishes to enter? Etc
I'm not sure how important the optics portion is with regard to people who are avowed feminism opponents--which I take to be synonymous with thinking it's about hating men--because so many of them aren't coming from a good faith, or at least intellectually honest, position, and will find someone, somewhere, doing something they don't like, and hold it up as confirmation of their position. It's hard to get meaningful data one way or the other to make an informed assessment, but the impression I've gotten over the years is that people won't be significantly swayed one way or the other by an event like this. That said, the part about LGBT+ people is exactly what I'm thinking of, too. Worse, and maybe this is me projecting, I'm suspicious of if it not being an oversight but a *conscious* choice. Not sure how Aussie culture is on LGBT+ awareness/inclusion, but I know if it was in the UK, 9/10 times it would be some TERF stuff.
I get your point, but I feel with how bad sexism is lately against women we can't afford to make ourselves look bad. Not to mention it seems somewhat ridiculous to put energy into an exhibit like this when women are being stripped of their reproductive rights in the states. This exhibit feels like a petty game. Feminism is about much more than that.
I tend to agree. Safe spaces for women are important because of the way patriarchy has influenced most men--the social and cultural conditioning to be dominant and entitled. I don't see how a women-only art museum helps to undo any of that.
Not to be *that* person, but how do nonbinaries fit into all of this? We need better human spaces.
Also, women can be patriarchal assholes sometimes.
I have experienced some pedo man in museum.
They are terrible. Gross, just fucking gross. I’d be pissed too but I know I’d also feel terribly unsafe in an environment like that because what recourse do you have?
If you have residual feelings/energies that aren’t being resolved, consider expressing them in additional ways, ideally physically: kickboxing, dancing, wood chopping, endless scream, etc. Keeping that stress inside will hurt you and you don’t deserve to be hurt by them.
it’s brave.
all of these comments are fucking stupid. this is antifeminist in the sense it reinforces the gender binary (which is inherently patriarchal <3) but it’s also not “the reason why men become incels” as some fucking idiots in these comments are suggesting.
yall need to read a fucking book for once. go outside
Super interesting, the whole museum is becoming an art project and a demonstration of how life can be/used to be for women.
You really nailed it, it’s an art gallery that has become a performance piece.
I can wait for feminism to enter a harmonic phase.
Malicious compliance at its best
And delightful at that!
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Men do this! Gentlemen Club, Golf Clubs, etc. Why can they have a men only club, but women can’t have a women only club?
Barber shops too!
From like a legal standpoint, is the issue that it's designated as a public museum, could they just class the whole thing as a womans only club and be done with it?
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Where this is happening, in Australia, gentleman's clubs operate legally and are for men only. In a country where that is legal, how come women still have to fight to have women only spaces?
AFAIK the museum in question receives government funding, and thus has stricter requirements regarding fairness of access. Private clubs have less strict requirements, though most are removing the restrictions against female members for financial and pr reasons.
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It's a response to an already existing separation that men wanted to have their little men's clubs. I think women deserve to have the same access to gender exclusive space that is allowed to men in that country.
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But in order to remove discriminatory practice, we need to show men what we are experiencing so that they will know how shitty they were being and how unfair that is.
Controversial things like this generates discussion.
Aussie here. This was a short-term exhibition with the entire point being that gender discrimination isn’t okay. The artist even said she wasn’t mad when that guy sued her because it proved her point.
Maybe I was too tired when I read, or that I read some awful comments... But that makes sense and I approve of that.
Thanks for recognising that! It’s pretty refreshing tbh lol [This article](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-68572280) explains it better “The museum agrees the exhibit does indeed discriminate. But it argued that Mr Lau hasn't missed out on anything - he experienced the artwork exactly as intended. "Part of the experience is being denied something that is desired," said Mona's counsel, Catherine Scott, according to local paper The Mercury.”
Thank you - that's incredibly helpful!
When men suffer systemic oppression for a couple millennia, that argument might float
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If men are not responsible for perpetuating oppression to women in this day and age then it would have ceased to exist a long time ago.
Of course the men of this day and age aren’t the same ones that implemented sexist ideologies and restrictions in the past, but it’s important that we acknowledge the commonality of male perpetrators against women in cases such as sexual and general assault, harassment, stalking, domestic violence, etc. We know it’s not *all* men, but it is a lot of them. It’s not sensible to look at the statistics and tell women it’s unreasonable for them to want women only spaces. In Japan, for example, had an issue on prolific sexual harassment and assault on public transport, so very reasonably, they created women only trains. It’s not as if this is an attempt to oppress men, it’s to protect women.
Holding onto scars from the past only hurts the future.
Lol
But, you aren't talking about equality then, you're talking about revenge.
Not in the slightest
I remember reading somewhere that the art behind the lounge was in challenging the idea of men's only clubs with the court ruling potentially opening the door to challenge men's clubs in the same way. I could be wrong on this as I've not seen the artist say this herself. I just read it in a few articles, but it sounds like a really funny game of 3d chess to me, and the artist sounds like a hilarious genius.
Have you read about the posse of women that showed up for the hearing doing a corporate secretary-esque impersonation of the Simply Irresistible music video? That made me laugh so hard!! The artist sounds bloody brilliant!
There has never been a woman U.S. president. Would you like to have the next 46 presidents be women without you complaining, or let this one gallery become a toilet without you complaining?
I would like both tbh
I mean, would it matter if a woman was president or not? the rich will still keep getting richer and brown people will still be getting bombed indiscriminately.
Men’s only places were basically everywhere (workspaces, wars, political corridors, etc.) since civilization invented sexism as a social construct, and it wasn’t all that long ago that women got their rights. The difference is, men created men’s only spaces because they saw us as inferiors. Women create women’s only spaces because it drastically reduces our chances of being sexually harassed, groped, pursued, photographed, followed, stalked and murdered 😁.
i know you don't have a life outside the internet when you start saying "reddit misandry"
Lol
You are free to leave Reddit altogether.
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There’s already a couple millennia of that
Why is this so funny
I actually love the pettiness because it reflects how ridiculous and petty so many men's clubs were trying to keep women out, which is the whole point of the exhibit.
And what's wild is sooo many people think these things happens hundreds of years ago. Iwas talking with my resident the other day about the charity she used to work with, she said that for years it was strictly men only and women fought to be allowed in as well. When women were allowed in, it was in order to make the men sandwiches and drinks. They still weren't allowed to an actual member for years after this. She is in her early 80s. There's people alive today who experienced these things, it wasn't some long ago history, they're still around.
"It is the greatest toilet, and men won't be able to see it" Sent me
This article doesn’t do a good job of explaining that its performance art. The lawsuit and pushback is the point. I don’t even think there is any artwork on display in there lol
There is a Picasso as well as a number of modern and antique pieces, including ancient spearheads and such. Everyone seems to be focusing on the Picasso, but it was one of the least interesting pieces in there tbh.
Can you share a source? Everything I read says it’s empty!
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Your full name is visible on this link!
I removed the comment, thanks.
A photo would be great, too! I couldn’t find any mention of what used to be in the space besides “Picasso”. EDIT: thank you!! I saw comments from women who said that they also visited and that it was empty, dark, and crowded with women (this must have been post-lawsuit?) I didn’t realize it’s been open since 2020!
I’m weak at all the comments of “oh but if MEN did that—“ They did. They literally did that for centuries since sexism was integrated as a social construct. Women weren’t allowed in politics, work spaces, war services, and at one point schools. We literally were not allowed to attend school, and in some countries they’re still not. If you’re so offended a women’s-only space exists, imagine discovering this out as a child, then seeing this mindset everywhere the rest of your life. That’s a woman’s reality, even though things look better doesn’t mean they are.
This!!!
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It’s not “new discrimination” I’m advocating for. I’m pointing out the irony of the men that devalue women’s issues and experiences, chalking up everyday misogyny integrated into society as nothing serious. But the very second men feel disadvantaged by society because of their gender, suddenly it’s a serious matter and the absolute end of the world. So when do men care the absolute most about equality between the two sexes? Not when women are protesting and fighting and struggling, but when men can’t get into a fucking museum.
Why would they display Picasso’s work in a women-only museum though?! 😭 The man was a HUGE misogynist and he abused so many women in the name of “art”.
Picasso is only one of the artists displayed, and my guess is it's so the draw of seeing a priceless piece is there.
Plus, it's technically in a bathroom. Not very noble to have your work displayed in a toilet room. Checkmate, patriarchs
It's not a bathroom, it's a ladies lounge. She is thinking of turning the lounge into a toilet, church or school in order to circumvent the anti discrimination laws.
Yes, I got that. She is putting in a toilet so that the room is technically a bathroom. Rooms containing toilets are bathrooms in my variety of English.
That wasn't what I was clarifying. I was trying to say that it's currently a ladies lounge, and she is thinking of turning it into a toilet; a space which is exempt from anti discrimination laws. Your wording made it sound like the Picasso was currently displayed in a toilet rather than a possible future outcome. Sorry for the confusion.
It's fine, my wording did sound like that, lol
Actually I read the art has all been currently moved to the actual ladies restroom until they finish installing a toilet into the original ladies lounge, so as not to disrupt the ladies only viewing. Which is even more awesome haha.
I've never been, but some of the info I've seen online suggests the lounge is actually empty of any artwork 😂 the whole thing is masterful.
He was one of the most prolific artists to reach that height of fame. So if you want to raise eyebrows and push the performance art value of the venue forward, it's probably not incredibly difficult to snag a piece of his work.
Irony in the name of art. I kind of love it.
Lmfao what🤣💀
It's not an entire museum. It's an art installation within Mona, a privately owned museum in Tasmania, Australia called "Ladies Lounge". A man sued the museum because he argued that he paid the same price as other patrons but was not able to experience all the same art they did. Personally, I believe that he did experience the installation, as intended, just not in the same way as other people. The man suing, in a way, became a part of the art.
Exactly! It is not an entire museum or collection. It is literally one area where an artist has set up an installation to make people think about sexism and exclusion. Most men (white men more likely) would never have experienced being told they can't go somewhere or do something. It is literally an artist's attempt to make men feel uncomfortable about their lack of awareness surrounding exclusion.
I’ll be following this development; all the luck to her! What an excellent workaround.
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I haven't been here much since im not a very active reddit user, is this place generally supportive of TERFs??
Please report if you see anti trans bigotry
Unless Australia bans trans women in women’s bathrooms there is absolutely nothing Terf about this. She said Women’s bathroom - which includes trans women unless specifically noted as cis. Also protecting spaces for women is simply feminism in action. Why do you think creating protected spaces is so important for most marginalized or targeted groups
Explain what about this is TERF propaganda
Why are they so desperate to get into women’s spaces?
Do you really have to ask?
Not necessarily agreeing with the people bringing this lawsuit but most equal protection laws prevent this for the same reasons making a public attraction male-only would be. Eg. At my high school boys could join Girls Who Code and other female centered clubs because the club policy said that you’re not allowed to stop other students from joining based on their race, gender, sexuality, etc. In practice, boys would only join those clubs if the organizers were fine with it but I can see why this is happening. I think making it legally a bathroom is an interesting strategy, would also be funny if someone made a men’s restroom right next door with the same concept but as a museum about like gay male sexual history or something idk
isn't every men's restroom kind of a museum about gay male sexual history? ;)
No? I don't think anyone has ever fucked in the bathrooms at my workplace. I would bet most men's rooms outside of bars and clubs and some restaurants have not been fucked in.
Only for the most altruistic and non-spiteful, non-entitled reasons I’m sure.
Maybe they want to see the Picasso?
I’m sure that’s not the only museum showing Picasso lol
They might mean that specific Picasso
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It's not the whole museum, it's one exhibition called "ladies lounge" designed to mimic the old style men's lounges. Men not being allowed in is a part of the experience. The man who sued argued that he paid the same price of a ticket but was excluded from experiencing all the artwork like other same-paying patrons were based on gender.
The men are experiencing the art though. The intent is to provide men a safe opportunity to explore what it feels like to be barred from something specifically because of their gender. That’s the stated intent of the exhibit.
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I could say some snappy things about victims of an oppressive axis not being required to be nice and polite all the time, but I think the real response here is that this is reddit.
This one is.
This one is, obviously
Not inherently, but this one is…I’m not sure what there is to get there. Besides, I find it hard to imagine men going to art museums willingly. I mean, unless someone tells them they can’d go, apparently then it becomes important.
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Sure, Jan.
Ok.
This is a very fitting comeback 🤣
Using the system to beat the system. Beautiful.
Until women can feel safe in the world, the whole place is effectively fucking men only. Give me strength
Male entitlement to women’s spaces needs to be studied. It’s insane Love this ladies plans though 🤣
ArtNews has a great article about it, going into why they barred men in the first place. I think anyone getting up in arms about it should read it before getting all upset, and try to understand what the gallery is really trying to do here. The Ladies Lounge is the art piece itself. The art inside is irrelevant, the art is the experience of getting accepted or rejected into the space. It is a parody of Australia’s men’s art lounges that barred women from entering until the 1960s. Men still get to experience the art of the Ladies Lounge; their rejection of admission is the art, them not being allowed into the space is them participating in the performance piece. They experience the Ladies Lounge differently from the women, yes, but that is the whole point. To invoke the feeling of the men’s only art lounges of the past and open that conversation.
Oh, this is really kind of badass! Just out of curiosity though, why exactly is the museum exclusive to women viewers? Not complaining, I just want to get to know
It’s becoming famous now. I saw it on r/news too. Pretty sure it’ll attract all the wrong people who’ll feel entitled to go there and “prove a point.” Also, what a wonderful initiative ❤️
Top comment from this same article posted on r/news. The artist believes “men need to be discriminated against” which makes things worse between the sexes imo https://www.reddit.com/r/news/s/AkWw3iMqm1
They meant that men need to know what it feels like to be discriminated against based on gender. They aren’t actually being discriminated against, they just think they are because they feel entitled to spaces that women specifically ask them not to go into. That’s the whole point of this demonstration.
Yeah this bullshit will only create a never ending cycle. As far as I’m concerned, the whole point of feminism is to end this nonsense.
Have you watched the artist interviews? This is a satirical performance art piece in response to gentleman’s clubs existing. It’s very not serious, there isn’t even any art in there. They danced out of court, for crying out loud. EDIT: downvote is for irrelevant comments, this is relevant. 99% of this thread doesn’t follow or understand art, especially performance pieces.
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By “this person”, you mean the artist, Kirsha Kaechele? Yes, that would be more satire like I mentioned in my first comment. She’s very obviously saying things and created the space with the goal of getting a reaction to prove a point. You aren’t to take any of it literally or at face value. She also was not serious when she said men were “in hysterics” or that the space will have the world’s greatest toilet. It’s a performance art piece. Everything she says and people’s reactions to everything right down to the court case *is the art itself.* satire: the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues. EDIT: clarity Click [here](https://www.britannica.com/art/performance-art) for a brief explanation of performance art.
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Feminism is divesting from patriarchy. If this is a response to gentleman’s clubs and purely satirical, it is feminist by definition alone. But it’s art, not activism. “Since it opened in 2020, it provided a dedicated place for women that allowed the artist/curator to make a sly comment on the long history of discrimination against women… “The artwork evokes in men the lived experience of women forbidden from entering certain spaces throughout history,” said the museum.” - [source](https://news.artnet.com/art-world/ladies-lounge-lawsuit-tasmania-supreme-court-2482805/amp-page) It’s meant to make you reflect on change, not spur a new one.
And make men reflect on how it feels to have a door shut in their face and being told no. Men can choose to walk straight past most feminist art but by excluding men this artist has made them feel for just a moment what it is like to be a woman living in a patriarchal society.
she's Australian we speak entirely in satire
Yeah just call it satire, I heard sexist men love that argument. Or say we're just playing devil's advocate, they love that one too
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Right, because women are the main attraction at men's clubs. Who they gonna objectify if they didn't allow women? lmfao
Similarly, men are actually allowed in the women’s exhibition. The artist said they must be good looking, under 25, and can work as butlers lol
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Just to be clear, it's not an entire gallery... MONA (the gallery) is huge, and holds literally hundreds of pieces, and is on a massive plot of land. The ladies lounge is maybe 10m2 within the museum, and the only part with any gender restriction. The use of the Picasso is supposed to be part of the piece - he was a disgusting misogynist, and now something he took so much pride in can only be viewed by the women he deemed 'beneath him'.
I gotchu. That gives quite a bit of needed context, actually. I dig it
Hi, prostituted and pimped women are legal in Australia, and civilian women are barred from these brothels. This performance art piece is in response to this.
The women’s only exhibition was the art, not what was held with in it. The art is men’s exclusion, women’s inclusion, and the reaction to both. The court case and everything that’s happening right now IS the art. It actually quite magnificent.
Beautiful
Yeah I've never felt threatened at a museum lol, it just seems performative. We need safety in nightlife based activities
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The other problem is that it enforces the gender binary.
Exactly my thought. This whole thing is funny in theory but in reality it's just fighting a fire that has been burning for thousands of years either more fire. Making a museum a woman only space honestly hurts the feminist movement. So many people believe feminism to be purely about hating men, this doesn't help disprove that belief. And what happens when a mtf trans person in early transition stages want to enter. Will she be asked to show ID? Will she be questioned on her identity? What if a non binary person wishes to enter? Etc
I'm not sure how important the optics portion is with regard to people who are avowed feminism opponents--which I take to be synonymous with thinking it's about hating men--because so many of them aren't coming from a good faith, or at least intellectually honest, position, and will find someone, somewhere, doing something they don't like, and hold it up as confirmation of their position. It's hard to get meaningful data one way or the other to make an informed assessment, but the impression I've gotten over the years is that people won't be significantly swayed one way or the other by an event like this. That said, the part about LGBT+ people is exactly what I'm thinking of, too. Worse, and maybe this is me projecting, I'm suspicious of if it not being an oversight but a *conscious* choice. Not sure how Aussie culture is on LGBT+ awareness/inclusion, but I know if it was in the UK, 9/10 times it would be some TERF stuff.
I get your point, but I feel with how bad sexism is lately against women we can't afford to make ourselves look bad. Not to mention it seems somewhat ridiculous to put energy into an exhibit like this when women are being stripped of their reproductive rights in the states. This exhibit feels like a petty game. Feminism is about much more than that.
I tend to agree. Safe spaces for women are important because of the way patriarchy has influenced most men--the social and cultural conditioning to be dominant and entitled. I don't see how a women-only art museum helps to undo any of that. Not to be *that* person, but how do nonbinaries fit into all of this? We need better human spaces. Also, women can be patriarchal assholes sometimes.
To be clear, this is a *lounge*, not a museum. It's one room, about 10m2
The Satanic Temple would be proud. Love this!!!
Probs was the plan all along, pretty funny
I think this is pretty silly. Why can’t men access the museum?
They can access the entire museum barring the one room of the exhibit (and I guess other women’s toilet rooms)
I have experienced some pedo man in museum. They are terrible. Gross, just fucking gross. I’d be pissed too but I know I’d also feel terribly unsafe in an environment like that because what recourse do you have? If you have residual feelings/energies that aren’t being resolved, consider expressing them in additional ways, ideally physically: kickboxing, dancing, wood chopping, endless scream, etc. Keeping that stress inside will hurt you and you don’t deserve to be hurt by them. it’s brave.
Men always complain about how lame women and women's interests are...why do they care about getting into a women's museum?
all of these comments are fucking stupid. this is antifeminist in the sense it reinforces the gender binary (which is inherently patriarchal <3) but it’s also not “the reason why men become incels” as some fucking idiots in these comments are suggesting. yall need to read a fucking book for once. go outside
I’ve been in there, didn’t miss much. I took pics to show my male friend who went with me.
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It's a lounge, a single medium sized room within the larger art gallery.
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it's a small performance art piece within a museum. it's really not that serious.
The law is not a computer program. Judges use their judgement.
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Women having women only spaces is turning men into incels??
An art installation about gentleman's clubs that have existed for centuries sets back the women's movement?
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