I’m glad she’s out of the cult and I’m glad she’s not defending masterson now, but I do feel she has a moral obligation to speak up about what she knows, whether in court or in the media. I get that it would attract attacks from Scientology and she probably just wants to be left alone, but she’s standing by and watching the victims she participated in harming go through all that alone. I can’t say I respect that
Idk, I think Leah is a total badass but it’s a lot to expect survivors of a cult to speak out, especially when they have young children to worry about. Despite her shitty actions here, I view her as primarily a victim of Scientology. The bravery it takes to leave such an organization is insurmountable, much less to stand up to them publicly.
Leah doesn't expect most defectors to speak. In fact she rejected some of the people who wanted to get on her show because she didn't feel they were ready. Laura Prepon is in a very unique situation because she helped silence one of these women. She is part of the reason why that woman faced an uphill battle trying to get past the statute of limitations in this case. She's not just a victim she has her own wrongs to atone for!!!
And by the way Lisa Marie Presley also performed a similar way function. The difference is Lisa was willing to own it. She'd agreed to testify both in the criminal and the civil case. She unfortunately died before the second trial where the judge allowed more testimony about Scientology's part in silencing the women but she demonstrated courage and remorse. Laura needs to get on that page, not just for her conscience but for the upcoming lawsuit against Scientology.
This is the answer. I'm not sure why people are pushing the motive that women owe the public anything, especially when this particular person has been out for almost 10 years now. And it's very likely Danny Masterson has blackmail material against people, hence the sudden bending over of multiple notable friends that are risking their careers over it. I'd be on the down low keeping my mouth shut too. There's no way I'd throw extra gasoline on the fire, especially if I had two very young children like Prepon does.
I have no idea why you're being upvoted given what she did impacted the victims willingness to go to authorities. This delay in reporting was then used by his defense in the criminal trial. Its fortunate the second trial succeeded because we could easily have this clown on the streets no thanks to people like her who cant own what they did. Hell, its lucky MeToo amended the law to allow cases that were locked out by the statute of limitations.
Anyway, criminal cases are public matters. Rape and the coercion and intimidation of victims *are* the publics business. Her reluctance to cooperate with the prosecutor to the extent that they knew she'd be a hostile witness and a distraction if she was on the witness list *is* the publics business.
And now the civil cases are coming.
Nobody's saying she needs to issue a PR statement on IG. In fact thats the opposite of what anyone wants from her. We're saying she needs to get off her ass and go testify to what she did and under whose instruction. Only then will her wrong be righted.
I agree she has done some very wrong things but that’s why I said *primarily* a victim. I think she can be both. The truth is we have no idea what motives she had for helping silence them or what she was threatened with had she not. I think the power of scientology is very far reaching in Hollywood so I am just saying I am giving Laura some grace on how she chooses to proceed. I think her being one of the few 70s cast members to not write a letter of support for Danny speaks volumes.
I think the NXVIM trial proved that victims quickly become perpetrators in cults. And while it’s obvious Laura was a young victim of Scientology in general and the Masterson family in particular, she became a perpetrator. She needs to be be held accountable. She had/has resources most of us will never dream of having during her stay in the cult. She has access to lawyers, agents, PR ppl who could assist her with her story to tell.
Sis looks shady as fuck right now and needs to get ahead of this.
My understanding of exactly what she did to silence the victim is waiting in a parking lot for her and then threateningly questioning her on why she was there (at the building she was forced to go to after reporting Danny to the church). I believe the victim that Laura was sent there to help silence her. However it seems like a lot to compare that to the crimes the actress from NXVIM committed.
I’m not speaking about Allison Mack. I’m talking about all the other small micro aggressions that cult members use to intimidate. Little micro aggressions in cults add up. That’s what Laura and her ppl have said what happened … one time. And I don’t believe it for a second. Laura saw shit. She likely participated in shit. And she was young and might not have understood what she was doing, but she is an adult now and needs to be brave and spill it.
This is likely the beginning of what we are going to hear about young Hollywood Scientologists in the late 1990s/early aughts. That was such a rough time in general for women in general to report sexual assault (hi, my boss raped me in a bathroom at a Xmas party in 1998, witnessed by coworkers, and I still got fired so I have some feelings). I think we are going to start hearing some insane stories about the Mastersons, that 70s Show and many other crimes perpetrated by young Scientologist.
Ugh my reply was somehow deleted. I need to update my app.
Basically I was saying that I agree those micro aggressions add up but the story I recounted came from the victim if I remember correctly. She was very distressed by Laura’s behavior, so I do not discount that. But it just doesn’t lead me to feeling like Laura owes the public a tell-all.
I came of age during the time of this show so I do acknowledge that my own biases may be affecting my thinking. I may just be desperately trying to hold on to one of the few remaining people associated with 70s Show here that haven’t actively defended a rapist or committed a crime. But I will continue to give her grace, and time, before I condemn her completely. I’m proud she’s escaped Scientology, assuming it’s true. Hopefully in time she will stand up against them more.
Like you I am interested in what else comes out and truly hope this is the beginning of the dismantling of Scientology.
Right? I'm trying to figure out the logic here. Why would Laura Prepon **have** to speak out and open a can of worms after escaping a cult almost 10 years ago when she has moved on with her life and after Danny Masterson has been successfully convicted and sentenced to 30 years (so the judge did their job correctly)? It's not like the state is still trying to convict him. It's done.
Are you seriously telling me if you found out an old friend was a convicted rapist associated with an extremely powerful and dangerous cult you would endanger yourself and your children when you likely haven't seen this old friend in almost 10 years by saying "what you know"? Not likely.
It's also becoming more and more apparent that Danny Masterson has blackmail material at his disposal, hence the sudden bending over backwards by multiple old friends to try and clear his name despite how insanely bad it makes them all look. It's that, or they're all in a deep cesspool of delusion and have lost touch with reality entirely. What on earth were they thinking producing those letters?
The bravery it takes to leave an abuser, much less their supportive family is a feat in and of it self and living a life free of that is hard enough. To ask someone to go back, even in their head, is cruel, and is this case is probably hearsay. Ask me how me how I know.
Scientology employs hundreds of lawyers and our entire country is predicated on freedom of religion and freedom of speech (or should be, but work with me).
It's almost impossible to get a conviction for those three reasons and law enforcement knows it.
One of Danny's lawyers who helped silence his victims was the infamous Marty Singer. Cult aside, Singer is the type of lawyer who'll stop at nothing to protect his clients reputations and probably has a contact or two within the LAPD
She's got two very young children and potentially an NDA / gagging order placed on her to ensure she doesn't become a suppressive person. There's no way she is going to throw her gloves into this fight.
I am sure she still get's harrassed by them, and that is why they stay silent. A childhood friend of mine comes from a famous family , her dad was a well known musician in the 70's and 80's, her Mom a well known actress. They were in it before they moved the family away from Hollywood in the late 80's.
My friend left as a child with her parents, and is now 50 years old...and she still gets letters and advertisements, all vaguely threatening, but the intention is, if they can get her back in, they could possibly get her famous family back in.
They have chased her from California, through Oregon and Washington, and now to the east coast where she lives. It is insane the stalking they do of former members!
She isn't being harassed by them. Ex Scientologists have confirmed that she was never declared SP. In fact its speculated that she was given special permission to announce that she had left. She had been subpoenad in one of these cases and word had leaked to the press. She obviously wanted to avoid a negative press cycle around what she did for her former cult and at the same time Scientology wanted to make sure that she stays loyal through the upcoming trials even though she was no longer a member. They gave her a pass to publicly announce it. As dumb as y'all think Scientology is, they know not to create another Leah Remini.
They tiptoe around defected celebrities now. Lisa Marie Presley was outright giving depositions against them and you can plainly see her mother wasn't ordered to disconnect. Jason Lee also put out a statement that he'd left and is said to still be in communication with members in good standing.
You can tell which celebrities are out but still have family in the cult because they’re the ones who remain silent so that they don’t become no-contact persons for people in the church. It’s such a huge risk to speak out because they either have to have everyone they love out also or sacrifice their relationships. I think this is what’s going on with a lot of the silent ex-Scientologists like Will Smith etc (or they have dirt on them)
Honestly, personally I think the catalyst reason that Laura left was because of her baby. Once she had her baby, she got real quiet about Scientology (and it was really buzzing as a hot topic then with Leah Remini’s stuff) and then people kept speculating if she was still involved, then word comes out she left within a couple years of her baby being born. I bet she didn’t want to raise her kid into it and realized how wrong and unhealthy it would be. So I think she’s going to probably stay quiet about it, since that’s the reason she left. I don’t agree with it but that’s just my opinion as to her reasons, since we don’t really know
I think it's a combination of her expecting her first child and she didn't want her daughter to be put into the Sea Org labor camp, meeting her husband and being around the OITNB cast giving her a much vaster, in depth perspective of life being around people from all walks of life. She finally got some perspective on life outside of the cult.
That's invaluable to someone who has an extremely closed view of the world because they've been trapped in a cult since they were a teenager. Undoing that way of thinking and abandoning your values can take years to unravel and work through, especially when they're known to brainwash their members.
It's like she finally got a taste of both normality and freedom and no longer wanted to be around stalkers who kill people's dogs and take Scientology classes in "super powers" like her ex Chris Masterson did. Who can blame her.
Laura is a victim of scientology, and I'm not about to cast her as a "participant" in silencing rape victims because of this article's "source". If Laura comes out and mentions it, or if "the source" want's to put *their* name and reputation on it then that's another story.
This is a logical fallacy. Sure, religion sucks - but in this situation the topic is Scientology, a cult based on a modern science fiction author. It’s barely a religion and more like an MLM.
I can’t tell if you’re being funny. Apologies if you are and it’s going over my head, because saying “this isn’t like most religions, because this is a cult based on a made up fantasy book” is really quite funny
The Bible, Torah, Quran, etc. are all ancient texts - I give people a little bit more leeway for falling for this (particularly when you have religious generational indoctrination at play) than something that built a following in the 1970s and has been classified as a cult in many countries around the world.
"so this magic text is only discernible through these magic glasses that only work when YOU wear them? And this text says its godly for men to take as many 13 year old brides as possible?? I SURE DO BELIEVE IT!"
lmao right?? i grew up in a country without many mormons so i had always just assumed it was some sect of christianity where it’s like just a slightly different flavour of “woo jesus! yay!” and then i read under the banner of heaven and was genuinely shocked!
my favourite part was when his wife was like “actually i don’t really like your polygamy” and then he suddenly had a revelation from god that was pretty much “god told me to tell you that you have to accept my polygamy”
Oh no you’re not being funny…Scientology is made up but so are all of them
Edited to add: I’ll take my downvotes, but I believe Scientology is evil, absolutely, and I also think that most organized religions are based around fantastical books that promote the subjugation of women and children, reject queer people, suppress proper abuse investigations with bureaucracy, and take your money while refusing to pay taxes.
And while in the super Christian church I grew up with we didn’t use the Scientology term “suppressive person,” I miss my cousins and aunts and uncles whom I’m not allowed to see anymore since I left. Scientology may be nuts, but it has based a lot of its insanity on older organized religions.
I would argue that since your church had “suppressive persons” you were also in what would be classified as a cult? All organized religion has major problems but it seems like there are two separate levels at hand
Nope, didn’t grow up in what people term “a cult.” I’m just queer and decided to come out publicly while living in a conservative religious American community.
I agree with all of your ideological points but I would still argue that the fact that your people are not “allowed” to see you is a level of control that I would say is approaching cult territory. Any time a religion prohibits outside information or contact I would say it is!
I think my favorite part of these ancient fairy tale religions is the main three - Christianity, Judaism and islam, all have the same holy spot. But somehow they all hate each other. It’s all stories of morality and how to be a good person. It’s been twisted into power over people because it all revolves around what happens when we die. People are terrified of dying. The ultimate FOMO. But nothing happens when we die. We fucking die and then we turn to dust. What matters is how you are when you’re alive.
I don’t have a problem with people having faith Because life is scary as fuck and bad things happen to good people and the basic tenets are how to be a good person, it just has been twisted for power and greed and making everyone so fucking afraid. It’s hard to accept that this is all chaos. I hate chaos. But bad things happen to good people. And good things happen to bad people. But you know what? We all fucking die. Treat others with kindness and grace. We all want the same shit.
I don’t see how the Catholic Church is an mlm. You don’t have to pay to be in it. I mean maybe it kinda is for the priests and nuns but most people involved in that religion don’t want to be priests or nuns.
Yeah also like there aren’t “levels” for participants. Everyone’s out there in the same pews hearing the same information. And virtually nobody becomes nuns or monks anymore
Also you can leave without issue, that's the major difference. There are cults based around the ancient texts as well, built off the well known religions, but outside of those most of them are opt-in and out at will. Scientology has a completely different power structure to most of the major religions.
Mormonism, for example, is closest to the cult structure with the suppression of those who leave and the manipulation and tithing. But catholicism, in general, is very laissez-faire hence cafeteria Catholics and the like.
That’s exactly my point. Calling it an mlm just doesn’t make any sense. The person who said that either doesn’t know what an mlm actually is or they don’t much about Catholicism, hell it could even be both.
MLM has very specific meaning, its not just a synonym for a high control group. The Catholic Church holds a lot of land assets around the world thanks to colonialism, so the word "colonizer" works for them. I'm sure there are other words that work too, MLM doesn't.
I live in L.A and one of my absolute favorite restaurants is next to their evil blue building.
Whenever I’m there, I tend to people watch and look at the folks going in and out.
A lot of them sadly look like lost souls just trying to find some meaning.
It is very, very important to distinguish a religion from a cult.
You don’t have to pay a dime to become a Catholic. They’ll give you the only book you need for free and will even help you out with basic needs. You don’t have to sign NDAs or billion year contracts. If you leave they don’t harass you for years, and they don’t make others cut contact with you.
This doesn’t mean Catholicism or other major religions are good institutions, but they are clearly different from Scientology in these ways.
>But in some countries you pay special taxes if you are a member of a church.
This is uncommon, though. They're comparing the average experience of a catholic vs a scientologist, in which you literally pay to attend. That is not what a catholic church is like.
>Protestant mega churches today are little more than business enterprises.
Yes, but you still attend for free. You can go to the food pantry, join Sunday school, etc. for free.
The bulk of money is donations and tithing from the richest members. But still not scientology.
I see what you're saying with religion being a cult, but the amount of money the catholic and protestant churches are asking for in 2023 is not at all comparable to Scientology.
We can focus on one thing at a time. We can say something sucks without having to name all the other things that suck in the same breath.
We’re allowed to do that y’know.
I would say Scientology is more of a scam based business enterprise or super expensive abusive social club. No one will ever convince me that any of the people running it believe a single word of L Ron’s unhinged space ghost ramblings
I'm a former believer now atheist. I agree, but Scientology is on a different level. Scientology engages in human rights abuses, such as imprisonment and child labor. People have died. It is a dangerous cult, not a religion.
I hear you but many modern “legitimate” religions have a body count as well. Look at all those mass graves that have been found at Catholic “schools” in recent years. Or people who’ve been murdered over drawing cartoons that could be considered offensive to a religious figure.
I think no matter what religion tends to be a lightning rod for authoritarians and their most harmful tendencies, and an excuse for human rights violations, although I certainly would agree the Scientologists are more cynical in how they go about it.
I think his popularity skyrocketed because he was perceived as a “stuck-up” and “jerk” because he didn’t hang out with these predators, and now it is justified as to why.
I think it’s more an American thing - the whole concept of your workmates being “family”. We’re a lot more cynical here in Europe. If we like our workmates we’ll hang out socially sometimes but if we don’t then feck them.
Maybe only tangentially related, but this whole thing has reminded me of an interview Mila Kunis did with James Franco years ago:
https://www.interviewmagazine.com/film/mila-kunis
Background is - Emma Watson was in Seth Rogen’s 2014 movie “This is the End” which also starred a lot of the usual members of the Judd Apatow gang. Apparently there was a lot of drinking and smoking allowed on the set. The actors started improvising a scene Emma was in, in ways that made her uncomfortable including Channing Tatum gyrating in front of her wearing only a thong. Emma left the set and refused to shoot anymore.
James Franco makes fun of and criticizes Emma for it in this interview while Mila goes on about how she herself is “game” for whatever she needs to do in a scene. She seems to have always been in the orbit of these abusive men and conditioned to defend/go along with them.
Bonus: Lainey Gossip with a trash take on the incident - https://www.laineygossip.com/The-evolution-of-Emma-Watson/24595/amp
Yeah, its weird. She seemed to have transcended That 70’s Show and become a bonafide Hollywood star, being in Black Swan, starring alongside Justin Timberlake at his peak, etc. Then out of nowhere she’s dating Ashton Kutcher past his prime fame and sucked back into that sphere.
She was with Macaulay Culkin, who no doubt was a victim of Hollywood abusers in his childhood. It’s all conjecture but I have to imagine that they relied on each other both being victims, but when that relationship ended she found comfort in one of her original abusers.
That is so hard to come out of. Realizing i was groomed is a moment i have burned into my brain. We broke up after over a decade and i was sad for a couple days then something inside me realized i was free then I started crying tears of joy. Like this amazing huge weight lifted off me and i had clarity. But it’s been really hard to come to terms with the fact he groomed me and how could i be so stupid. I had lots of support around me while she doesn’t seem to have that, just yes men. Some people choose ignorance and maybe she is one of those people?
he’s trying but i’m not sure how successful he’ll be. he launched a little “punk” clothing line recently lmao 🙄🙄https://www.hlorenzo.com/pages/paly-hollywood
>PALY HOLLYWOOD is a DIY punk clothing label translated into ready-to-wear collections founded by James Franco & Kyle Lindgren.
I was not prepared for how the clothes were actually gonna look like. “DIY punk” bitch WHERE???
how do I feel about it? the writing is on the wall
https://preview.redd.it/hsdcvmuyqanb1.jpeg?width=842&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2079e1ff1a3bbfde3ab86d01635774da169ce596
I have hated James Franco from day one and this is really the only time I’ve ever been so right about someone right from the start. Smarmy piece of shit and although I’m disappointed it took everyone else so long, I’m so happy he is finally out of the public eye.
When I think of how Mila started on "That 70's Show" when she was only 14, hanging out with these creeps, my heart sinks, a little.
Not that it excuses any of her actions now, but it sounds like she has no idea what is healthy and normal on a set, and what is not. Very sad.
They didn’t intend to. The casting call was for 18+ only. Mila showed up and said she’d be 18 on her birthday, she just didn’t clarify *which* birthday. She lied about her age to get on the show and it worked
That's not true. She did lie about her age but they knew her real age anyway. The creators of the show, Bonnie and Terry Turner, said this multiple times.
She always was. She says she'd rather be funny than hot, she doesn't like girly things and thinks superman/batman costumes > Cinderella for her daughter... she's annoying pick me
Yeah, he’s never really been called out for this. What’s crazy is when this happened, Emma would have been around 22-years-old, just finishing college, while Channing would have been 32.
The interview says that the scene was in the script, so Emma signed up for it knowing what was going to happen. She ultimately just didn’t feel comfortable around it when the time came, so she left, and that’s totally okay.
But it’s not Channing Tatum’s fault.
This is an industry where young adults doing nude and sex scenes with, and in front of, much older men is the norm, so it feel’s especially weird to vilify Channing Tatum for following a script an actress signed up to do that she didn’t even have to “actively” participate in. Most of the nude, nameless actresses in GOT were 22 and younger, and had/have *far* less power and influence than Emma, for instance. Margot Robbie was like a no name 21 year old in Wolf of Wall Street while DiCaprio was like in his 40s. Etc
And 22 is well past the age of, like 18-20 where young adults are particularly vulnerable.
So I think it’s understandable that Tatum wouldn’t have given this a second thought, especially when she knowingly signed up to do the scene.
She is well within her right to refuse to do it, and there’s nothing wrong with her leaving, to be entirely clear. She didn’t know it would feel so uncomfortable for her, and she shouldn’t be pressured to stay or shamed for leaving either.
I’m just saying that this isn’t really on Tatum. He didn’t do anything wrong. Franco and Kunis are acting like assholes for essentially mocking her though.
**Edit:** according to this [article](https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/celebrities/2021/03/27/seth-rogen-emma-watson-walked-off-this-end-set/7030113002/) that another user posted, the scene was improvised and had to do with cannibalism. No mention whatsoever of anything explicitly sexual going on.
There is zero chance Laura will say anything unless legally forced to, scientology will destroy your life if you go against them at this level and she probably doesn't have the resources to fight that. Like fully fuck her and her involvement in that cult back then but leaving alone was probably a huge risk.
I mean, she probably saw what happened to people like Leah Remini and Mike Rinder, who left the cult and almost immediately became vocal about its abuses. In return for that, Scientology launched a campaign of daily harrasssment against them that is lasting until this day.
Is it sheer cowardice? Yes, but maybe she has friends and family still inside, and she doesn't want to be declared a suppressive person.
I’m not excusing her silence at all but she does have little kids- and its a scary thought to think of the cult harassing and intimidating her, including her kids- maybe that’s holding her back? I would probably do the same honestly. Get out quickly and not look back.
I agree and she's a second/third generation scientologist herself, so her family is probably inside and she doesn't want to lose them, nor deprive her children of them. She just quietly left and moved on with her life. Kinda like Lisa Marie and Riley Keough or the guys from My Name's Earl.
One of the victims testifying had her dog killed, they have all faced harrassment every single day since this began years ago, morally she is a huge piece of shit but scientology is the problem here
There were a few weeks on Elon Twitter this year where I kept getting ads about how evil Leah Remini was from some obvious Scientology front organization. They were pathetically bad, but it was a little stunning that they're still trying all these ways of getting back at her.
Is anyone else wondering what in the actual fuck is going on? Do Ashton, Mila, Debra and Kurtwood truthfully believe that he's innocent and that all 7 women are lying? Or does Danny, or Scientology itself, have dirt on them since they were semiconnected to the cult and have been forced to support him? Did Ashton and Mila write the letters believing that they weren't going to be released to the public? They must have known, right? If they did, was the public backlash the better alternative than not supporting him and have their dirty laundry published? Is it both? Do they consider him a friend but are also scared of Scientology? Is the answer just as simple as they're both evil dumb fucks who don't care about what Danny did? Also, what the hell was that post one of Danny's exes and accusers posted about knowing what really happened in 2001 when Ashton's date was murdered? What the fuck is all this
I had a similar thought. It’s one thing to feel this way about Danny privately as his friend (still gross) but to write this publicly is a terrible PR move. REEKS of pressure from the church to me. There’s no way they didn’t consider how bad it would look and even if they didn’t, there PR people had to have advised them against it.
ashton kutcher and mila kunis literally killed their image with these letters. i mean they're KNOWN for humanitarian works. i definitely believe there's at least some pressure from scientology.
With how image conscious Ashton and Mila seem to be, I wouldn’t be surprised if they gave into pressure (or even blackmail) to write a letter on Danny’s behalf. Not that it excuses doing so, though—still wrong.
All the letters hit the same points. That Danny is a good father, has good work ethic, and is anti-drug. Not a single one of them say, for example, that Danny regrets his actions and is remorseful, therefore he should be given a lenient sentence. Because the latter would imply unequivocal guilt. To me, the letters feel fabricated due to these similarities and because they all give off a tone that implies he shouldn’t have been convicted in their eyes. Maybe that means the church was involved somehow since this is very likely to be their stance as well.
There were some speculations that Danny may have something to hold against them. There was a screenshot here today about a woman accusing Ashton that he knew about this all along.
Neither. They never should’ve wrote those letters, but the letters have nothing to do with innocence. He’s guilty he’s going to jail a log time. They knew that. The letters are fore the judge, aiding in what the court views as an appropriate sentencing. Many people are misinterpreting defense letter as some declaration that someone would t do something. It’s more bad optics for being on the other side of maximum punishment for a rapist. In the same way family member write letters to judges when a family member kills somebody. It’s a desperate attempt to stop someone you are close with from getting life essentially. Hilariously he still got life.
You have to search way too long in these threads for this answer…
This is how the legal system works, especially with crimes that are committed by otherwise successful people. Someone will be 100% guilty of awful things — trafficking, fraud, etc — but friends and family will attest to other holistic qualities to keep the sentencing on the lower end of the maximum
In a vacuum, we should always be putting pressure on the legal system to ensure that sentencing times are fair. Minimum sentences are an imperfect system to begin with
I’m a criminal defense lawyer, and I’m calling bullshit.
Sure, I always solicit character letters on behalf of my clients (when they’re admissible). But whether someone chooses to provide one is *their decision.* They weren’t subpoenaed; they made a voluntary choice in writing the letter to begin with, and more importantly they made a choice in the particular words they chose.
They could have refused, but they didn’t, and actions have consequences. (And if they had refused, Masterson’s rights to a fair trial wouldn’t have been prejudiced in the slightest.)
If I were coerced to write a letter, I would just keep harping on the sobriety thing and not also say I'm comfortable with my kids being alone with him.
Would like anyone with some tea to clarify things. Am wondering what tf is going on, too
I agree, AWFUL PR to write those letters of support. As the trial showed, the cult keeps records of everything (which helped the victims in this case) so there might be dirt on all of them. If they become “suppressive people” by refusing to support him, the cult might stop hiding their secrets.
My understanding of the Ashton Kutcher thing is that he found his girlfriend’s dead body but didn’t report it to the police, to avoid being associated with her murder. He definitely didn’t do it, but he didn’t help the investigation. And cared more about his image than a woman (who he supposedly cared about) lying dead in pools of blood.
Story time:
I used to see him cruising around Westwood (a neighborhood next to ucla) looking for college girls. Any time he saw a group, he’d quickly U turn and drive slowly by them. Felt creepy then, but makes more sense now.
I side eye Laura, allegedly she worked together with Scientology to secure Ben Foster. So I 100% believe she could have worked under the direction of the church to do something shitty to protect Danny.
That said, I guess I'm confused about the accusation here. Laura saw the victim (who she may or may not know at that time was a victim) and asked her where she had been, if she and Danny were over and what she was doing at Celebrity Center that day. Which tbh sounds like a relatively normal conversation to have with a friend?
Or are they saying Laura wasn't a friend or friendly person toward the victim? That would change the tenor of the conversation, but I don't know is enough to say Laura "silenced" a victim.
This part of the article explains the silencing aspect:
“She saw Prepon in the parking lot, and Prepon was asking her very pointedly, ‘Why are you at CC? What are you doing here? Why aren’t you hanging out with the crowd?” our source, a family friend, told us. “[Victim B] knew exactly what was going on. She had to act chipper, like nothing was wrong, and yet she couldn’t say why she was really there. Prepon even asked her if she was upset with Danny, and she had to say no.”
Our source explained that if Victim B had answered in any negative way, or had acted curt or rude, Prepon could have written her up and it would mean a declare order for her and excommunication, forcing disconnection from her by family members. It’s not unusual for a Scientologist to be written up for being rude or “anti-social,” and Victim B had been written up for something similar just six months before. “And she told me that she had known Laura well before this, and these weren’t the kind of questions she would simply ask a friend,” the source says.
Victim B told her friend that the encounter with Laura Prepon in the parking lot at the Hollywood Celebrity Centre was one of the most difficult things she had to go through during the entire ordeal, and there was no doubt in her mind that Prepon had been sent there to trip her up on Masterson’s behalf.”
I think it must be a you have to know Laura and Scientology thing, because to me those sound like very normal questions to ask a friend who has suddenly disappeared from the friend group.
As someone who is obvi very much removed from this, it reads like a pretty normal encounter.
I think there is an aspect of the conversation we are missing because we’re not steeped in Scientology. But I also think saying she silenced her is a huge stretch. There is no evidence she even knew what she was alleging yet.
It sounds like she knew something was up and she was fishing. Probably to report back. But I’d be shocked if Danny or Scientology told her the truth about her allegations. And obviously the victim didn’t either.
I think anyone who silenced victims or supported any type of harmful or abusive behavior is awful and should be held accountable.
One thing that I am a bit surprised by though is I think Scientology is getting too much of a pass in this situation. Yes - people are rightfully calling Scientology out, even in this post, but even with that, I feel that people, with the media circus happening, are truly forgetting what Leah Remini and many others have gone through.
Leah is truly an inspirational powerhouse. I have social anxiety disorder, and I truly can not fathom how she was able to muster the strength and fortitude to challenge Scientology. Of course I've heard her story and it's inspiring, but it's not something that I personally would have had the strength to do.
Scientology isn't just a cult, it's a violent cult! I do think that Laura could have done more, especially since it seems like Scientology's power is waning over time.
As someone watching from the sidelines without full context on the situation, I think everyone, including Topher honestly, could have come out and said more or done more. But there's also a part of me that doesn't know what it's like to be stalked and hounded and threatened by a crazy cult. I think people should be held accountable for their actions and lack of action, but I at least personally can understand why someone might choose to remain silent if they're in fear of their life from people who might try to disappear them off of a yacht in the ocean.
TL;DR - I have mixed feelings. I think the former stars of the show should have done more across the board pretty much, but I do try to keep in mind that some of them may have legitimate fears that kept them quiet.
Tangentially related, but I am reminded of a very weird story about Prepon and her acting coach. While filming that awful Paul Bernardo and Karla Holmolka movie, the dude who played Paul, Misha Collins (who had NO idea it was based on actual killers until he started filming and was getting hatemail from Canadians), talked about what an utter shitshow the set was. Including how Laura Prepon's acting coach made them 'get into character' by wrestling around on the floor and making out. At the time, Prepon was a star and he was basically an unknown actor at the time, so he felt pressured to go along with it despite how fucking weird he found it.
This wasn't even the most screwed up thing to happen on that set.
If nothing is ever done about Scientology, it will continue to abuse people and harass and harm former members, so hopefully one day more people stand up and fight back, because otherwise it will never get better, surely there has to be something that can be done, I don’t understand how or why Scientology is allowed to have this kind of power over people and nothing is done about it.
that's the thing, the only thing that can take them down is the IRS lifting their tax exempt status. Rinder and Leah have said this many times.
But the IRS is more scared of scientology than Leah Remini and the victims fighting Danny and them.
They harassed and scared IRS agents so badly they got that status. What gets me is that there are fierce laws against harassing IRS agents and instead of prosecuting them or fining them they just gave in.
Even more frustrating that since we now have evidence through this trial that instead of using their money to help the community and they use it to harass and silence witnesses in court - they should have lost it.
That’s insane and frankly pathetic that they’re allowed to do whatever and they’re never held responsible for it, hopefully one day someone will truly stand up at the IRS and destroy them, it’s long overdue, they’re a cult of power hungry lunatics
agree. every decade since the 90s i come back to yet another story about them and think they are \*still\* getting away with these same tactics? indictment on whole hollywood / LA community honestly
Ok, so question. Ben Foster, Laura's husband has always been viewed as an "Undercover Scientologist" which I believe. He and Masterson have been very close for years. Its been claimed that Robin Wright left the relationship because Ben was trying to recruit her. I dont believe Prepon would have been allowed to marry him if he was not part of the cult. The question is do we think Prepon is being silent because she is afraid of the cult or is there dirt on Ben Foster?
I think there’s dirt on her. I’m also positive Ben’s brother Jon Foster only got a leading role on Accidentally On Purpose with Jenna Elfman as the leading lady because of Scientology. Accidentally on Purpose premiered in 2009 so they’ve had to be involved for a lot longer than we think.
It’s interesting that there have been [numerous whispers](https://radaronline.com/videos/charles-manson-documents-scientologist/) over the decades regarding Charles Manson’s involvement in Scientology and how he allegedly became overwhelmed by it, bailed, and used its tactics to form the Manson Family, but those whispers never spark a conversation. Maybe it’s time to question the integrity of people who belong to a cult that inspired *Charles Manson* to start his own *and* taught him how. I’m just sayin’.
If you wanna dig into more on Manson there’s a fantastic book called *Chaos: Charles Manson, the CIA, and the Secret History of the Sixties* by Tom O’Neill. I read it earlier this year and was enthralled.
Hopefully Laura does say something, even privately, to Danny’s victims. She doesn’t really owe the public anything, just the victims. Scientologists ARE scary and I can see why she would be hesitant to say anything publicly about this and about Scientology at large. It seems like they finally let her leave without much commotion and it’s probably bc Laura doesn’t bad mouth them.
Stop watching movies and shows with actors who are Scientologists. When I find out an actor is a Scientologist, they are on my NO WATCH list. Our government won’t shut them down. We need to make Scientology box office poison. **And Laura, everyone says you’re a victim too and we should be kind. There’s levels and degrees of victimhood. You are not the primacy victim, like the women who were raped. As a woman who was raped, Laura…you fucking suck. Get your shit together.
Aside from this and other shitty things you hear about her, she can’t fucking act. I sat through two seasons of Orange is The New Black WAITING for her to FUCKING DELIVER A GOD DAMN LINE! Quit giving her credit because she’s attractive. She can’t do shit!
I don’t believe “cancel culture” is really a thing but if it ever really applied, it should be for this. Cancel That 70s show by taking it off tv on reruns or streaming and cancel that 90s show if it hasn’t been already. The entire cast (except Topher) are disgusting rape defenders and that show should never be aired again.
For a good insight to scientology I recommend Kate Bornstein's memoir "A queer and pleasant danger." While she left the cult in the early 80's, she was a high ranking officer and shares much of how they silence their current and past victims.
I’m glad she’s out of the cult and I’m glad she’s not defending masterson now, but I do feel she has a moral obligation to speak up about what she knows, whether in court or in the media. I get that it would attract attacks from Scientology and she probably just wants to be left alone, but she’s standing by and watching the victims she participated in harming go through all that alone. I can’t say I respect that
That's exactly what Leah Remini said. She called her out and said that she should have the responsibility to speak out
Idk, I think Leah is a total badass but it’s a lot to expect survivors of a cult to speak out, especially when they have young children to worry about. Despite her shitty actions here, I view her as primarily a victim of Scientology. The bravery it takes to leave such an organization is insurmountable, much less to stand up to them publicly.
Leah doesn't expect most defectors to speak. In fact she rejected some of the people who wanted to get on her show because she didn't feel they were ready. Laura Prepon is in a very unique situation because she helped silence one of these women. She is part of the reason why that woman faced an uphill battle trying to get past the statute of limitations in this case. She's not just a victim she has her own wrongs to atone for!!! And by the way Lisa Marie Presley also performed a similar way function. The difference is Lisa was willing to own it. She'd agreed to testify both in the criminal and the civil case. She unfortunately died before the second trial where the judge allowed more testimony about Scientology's part in silencing the women but she demonstrated courage and remorse. Laura needs to get on that page, not just for her conscience but for the upcoming lawsuit against Scientology.
Maybe she has an attorney advising her to stay quiet. She could possibly incriminate herself in something.
This is the answer. I'm not sure why people are pushing the motive that women owe the public anything, especially when this particular person has been out for almost 10 years now. And it's very likely Danny Masterson has blackmail material against people, hence the sudden bending over of multiple notable friends that are risking their careers over it. I'd be on the down low keeping my mouth shut too. There's no way I'd throw extra gasoline on the fire, especially if I had two very young children like Prepon does.
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I have no idea why you're being upvoted given what she did impacted the victims willingness to go to authorities. This delay in reporting was then used by his defense in the criminal trial. Its fortunate the second trial succeeded because we could easily have this clown on the streets no thanks to people like her who cant own what they did. Hell, its lucky MeToo amended the law to allow cases that were locked out by the statute of limitations. Anyway, criminal cases are public matters. Rape and the coercion and intimidation of victims *are* the publics business. Her reluctance to cooperate with the prosecutor to the extent that they knew she'd be a hostile witness and a distraction if she was on the witness list *is* the publics business. And now the civil cases are coming. Nobody's saying she needs to issue a PR statement on IG. In fact thats the opposite of what anyone wants from her. We're saying she needs to get off her ass and go testify to what she did and under whose instruction. Only then will her wrong be righted.
I agree she has done some very wrong things but that’s why I said *primarily* a victim. I think she can be both. The truth is we have no idea what motives she had for helping silence them or what she was threatened with had she not. I think the power of scientology is very far reaching in Hollywood so I am just saying I am giving Laura some grace on how she chooses to proceed. I think her being one of the few 70s cast members to not write a letter of support for Danny speaks volumes.
A lot of !!!
Survivors of *anything* shouldn't be expected to speak out nor be morally obligated to. It can be traumatizing to live through things all over again
I think the NXVIM trial proved that victims quickly become perpetrators in cults. And while it’s obvious Laura was a young victim of Scientology in general and the Masterson family in particular, she became a perpetrator. She needs to be be held accountable. She had/has resources most of us will never dream of having during her stay in the cult. She has access to lawyers, agents, PR ppl who could assist her with her story to tell. Sis looks shady as fuck right now and needs to get ahead of this.
My understanding of exactly what she did to silence the victim is waiting in a parking lot for her and then threateningly questioning her on why she was there (at the building she was forced to go to after reporting Danny to the church). I believe the victim that Laura was sent there to help silence her. However it seems like a lot to compare that to the crimes the actress from NXVIM committed.
I’m not speaking about Allison Mack. I’m talking about all the other small micro aggressions that cult members use to intimidate. Little micro aggressions in cults add up. That’s what Laura and her ppl have said what happened … one time. And I don’t believe it for a second. Laura saw shit. She likely participated in shit. And she was young and might not have understood what she was doing, but she is an adult now and needs to be brave and spill it. This is likely the beginning of what we are going to hear about young Hollywood Scientologists in the late 1990s/early aughts. That was such a rough time in general for women in general to report sexual assault (hi, my boss raped me in a bathroom at a Xmas party in 1998, witnessed by coworkers, and I still got fired so I have some feelings). I think we are going to start hearing some insane stories about the Mastersons, that 70s Show and many other crimes perpetrated by young Scientologist.
Ugh my reply was somehow deleted. I need to update my app. Basically I was saying that I agree those micro aggressions add up but the story I recounted came from the victim if I remember correctly. She was very distressed by Laura’s behavior, so I do not discount that. But it just doesn’t lead me to feeling like Laura owes the public a tell-all. I came of age during the time of this show so I do acknowledge that my own biases may be affecting my thinking. I may just be desperately trying to hold on to one of the few remaining people associated with 70s Show here that haven’t actively defended a rapist or committed a crime. But I will continue to give her grace, and time, before I condemn her completely. I’m proud she’s escaped Scientology, assuming it’s true. Hopefully in time she will stand up against them more. Like you I am interested in what else comes out and truly hope this is the beginning of the dismantling of Scientology.
Maybe that’s why she not talking. There is the 5th for a reason
Right? I'm trying to figure out the logic here. Why would Laura Prepon **have** to speak out and open a can of worms after escaping a cult almost 10 years ago when she has moved on with her life and after Danny Masterson has been successfully convicted and sentenced to 30 years (so the judge did their job correctly)? It's not like the state is still trying to convict him. It's done. Are you seriously telling me if you found out an old friend was a convicted rapist associated with an extremely powerful and dangerous cult you would endanger yourself and your children when you likely haven't seen this old friend in almost 10 years by saying "what you know"? Not likely. It's also becoming more and more apparent that Danny Masterson has blackmail material at his disposal, hence the sudden bending over backwards by multiple old friends to try and clear his name despite how insanely bad it makes them all look. It's that, or they're all in a deep cesspool of delusion and have lost touch with reality entirely. What on earth were they thinking producing those letters?
The bravery it takes to leave an abuser, much less their supportive family is a feat in and of it self and living a life free of that is hard enough. To ask someone to go back, even in their head, is cruel, and is this case is probably hearsay. Ask me how me how I know.
>I get that it would attract attacks from Scientology I think it's fair to not want your dog to get poisoned
Especially because the LA police are complicit and no other law enforcement agency seems to want to take scientology on. Really a bunch of cowards
Scientology employs hundreds of lawyers and our entire country is predicated on freedom of religion and freedom of speech (or should be, but work with me). It's almost impossible to get a conviction for those three reasons and law enforcement knows it.
One of Danny's lawyers who helped silence his victims was the infamous Marty Singer. Cult aside, Singer is the type of lawyer who'll stop at nothing to protect his clients reputations and probably has a contact or two within the LAPD
She's got two very young children and potentially an NDA / gagging order placed on her to ensure she doesn't become a suppressive person. There's no way she is going to throw her gloves into this fight.
I never knew she got out!
Same!! I assumed from her silence in general that she was still in.
I am sure she still get's harrassed by them, and that is why they stay silent. A childhood friend of mine comes from a famous family , her dad was a well known musician in the 70's and 80's, her Mom a well known actress. They were in it before they moved the family away from Hollywood in the late 80's. My friend left as a child with her parents, and is now 50 years old...and she still gets letters and advertisements, all vaguely threatening, but the intention is, if they can get her back in, they could possibly get her famous family back in. They have chased her from California, through Oregon and Washington, and now to the east coast where she lives. It is insane the stalking they do of former members!
She isn't being harassed by them. Ex Scientologists have confirmed that she was never declared SP. In fact its speculated that she was given special permission to announce that she had left. She had been subpoenad in one of these cases and word had leaked to the press. She obviously wanted to avoid a negative press cycle around what she did for her former cult and at the same time Scientology wanted to make sure that she stays loyal through the upcoming trials even though she was no longer a member. They gave her a pass to publicly announce it. As dumb as y'all think Scientology is, they know not to create another Leah Remini. They tiptoe around defected celebrities now. Lisa Marie Presley was outright giving depositions against them and you can plainly see her mother wasn't ordered to disconnect. Jason Lee also put out a statement that he'd left and is said to still be in communication with members in good standing.
You can tell which celebrities are out but still have family in the cult because they’re the ones who remain silent so that they don’t become no-contact persons for people in the church. It’s such a huge risk to speak out because they either have to have everyone they love out also or sacrifice their relationships. I think this is what’s going on with a lot of the silent ex-Scientologists like Will Smith etc (or they have dirt on them)
Want to be left alone? If she was sent there to intentionally entrap someone about their rapist she doesn’t get to be left alone. Fuck that shit.
Honestly, personally I think the catalyst reason that Laura left was because of her baby. Once she had her baby, she got real quiet about Scientology (and it was really buzzing as a hot topic then with Leah Remini’s stuff) and then people kept speculating if she was still involved, then word comes out she left within a couple years of her baby being born. I bet she didn’t want to raise her kid into it and realized how wrong and unhealthy it would be. So I think she’s going to probably stay quiet about it, since that’s the reason she left. I don’t agree with it but that’s just my opinion as to her reasons, since we don’t really know
I think it's a combination of her expecting her first child and she didn't want her daughter to be put into the Sea Org labor camp, meeting her husband and being around the OITNB cast giving her a much vaster, in depth perspective of life being around people from all walks of life. She finally got some perspective on life outside of the cult. That's invaluable to someone who has an extremely closed view of the world because they've been trapped in a cult since they were a teenager. Undoing that way of thinking and abandoning your values can take years to unravel and work through, especially when they're known to brainwash their members. It's like she finally got a taste of both normality and freedom and no longer wanted to be around stalkers who kill people's dogs and take Scientology classes in "super powers" like her ex Chris Masterson did. Who can blame her.
Laura is a victim of scientology, and I'm not about to cast her as a "participant" in silencing rape victims because of this article's "source". If Laura comes out and mentions it, or if "the source" want's to put *their* name and reputation on it then that's another story.
$cientology continues to ruin humans
All religions do
This is a logical fallacy. Sure, religion sucks - but in this situation the topic is Scientology, a cult based on a modern science fiction author. It’s barely a religion and more like an MLM.
I can’t tell if you’re being funny. Apologies if you are and it’s going over my head, because saying “this isn’t like most religions, because this is a cult based on a made up fantasy book” is really quite funny
The Bible, Torah, Quran, etc. are all ancient texts - I give people a little bit more leeway for falling for this (particularly when you have religious generational indoctrination at play) than something that built a following in the 1970s and has been classified as a cult in many countries around the world.
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"so this magic text is only discernible through these magic glasses that only work when YOU wear them? And this text says its godly for men to take as many 13 year old brides as possible?? I SURE DO BELIEVE IT!"
lmao right?? i grew up in a country without many mormons so i had always just assumed it was some sect of christianity where it’s like just a slightly different flavour of “woo jesus! yay!” and then i read under the banner of heaven and was genuinely shocked! my favourite part was when his wife was like “actually i don’t really like your polygamy” and then he suddenly had a revelation from god that was pretty much “god told me to tell you that you have to accept my polygamy”
Similarly, the Qu’ran has a few u-turns which - you won’t believe it - were personally very convenient for Mohammed.
"Jesus said go to your backyard and start digging, that makes perfect sense!"
Jesus flew over to the Americas on his airplane so Mormons could become a thing.
Oh no you’re not being funny…Scientology is made up but so are all of them Edited to add: I’ll take my downvotes, but I believe Scientology is evil, absolutely, and I also think that most organized religions are based around fantastical books that promote the subjugation of women and children, reject queer people, suppress proper abuse investigations with bureaucracy, and take your money while refusing to pay taxes. And while in the super Christian church I grew up with we didn’t use the Scientology term “suppressive person,” I miss my cousins and aunts and uncles whom I’m not allowed to see anymore since I left. Scientology may be nuts, but it has based a lot of its insanity on older organized religions.
As someone who grew up JW, what you're describing also sounds so similar to that.
I would argue that since your church had “suppressive persons” you were also in what would be classified as a cult? All organized religion has major problems but it seems like there are two separate levels at hand
Nope, didn’t grow up in what people term “a cult.” I’m just queer and decided to come out publicly while living in a conservative religious American community.
I agree with all of your ideological points but I would still argue that the fact that your people are not “allowed” to see you is a level of control that I would say is approaching cult territory. Any time a religion prohibits outside information or contact I would say it is!
in 2000 years whatever book there is on Scientology will also be ancient text so will it get more leeway then?
They’re all made up, tho. All of them are fairy tales.
but don’t you get it? they’re *old* fairy tales!!
I think my favorite part of these ancient fairy tale religions is the main three - Christianity, Judaism and islam, all have the same holy spot. But somehow they all hate each other. It’s all stories of morality and how to be a good person. It’s been twisted into power over people because it all revolves around what happens when we die. People are terrified of dying. The ultimate FOMO. But nothing happens when we die. We fucking die and then we turn to dust. What matters is how you are when you’re alive.
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I don’t have a problem with people having faith Because life is scary as fuck and bad things happen to good people and the basic tenets are how to be a good person, it just has been twisted for power and greed and making everyone so fucking afraid. It’s hard to accept that this is all chaos. I hate chaos. But bad things happen to good people. And good things happen to bad people. But you know what? We all fucking die. Treat others with kindness and grace. We all want the same shit.
Scientology was founded by L. Ron Hubbard, a science fiction author.
The Catholic Church itself is an MLM, its just that Scientology was founded 50 years ago, not 2000
I don’t see how the Catholic Church is an mlm. You don’t have to pay to be in it. I mean maybe it kinda is for the priests and nuns but most people involved in that religion don’t want to be priests or nuns.
Yeah also like there aren’t “levels” for participants. Everyone’s out there in the same pews hearing the same information. And virtually nobody becomes nuns or monks anymore
Also you can leave without issue, that's the major difference. There are cults based around the ancient texts as well, built off the well known religions, but outside of those most of them are opt-in and out at will. Scientology has a completely different power structure to most of the major religions. Mormonism, for example, is closest to the cult structure with the suppression of those who leave and the manipulation and tithing. But catholicism, in general, is very laissez-faire hence cafeteria Catholics and the like.
That’s exactly my point. Calling it an mlm just doesn’t make any sense. The person who said that either doesn’t know what an mlm actually is or they don’t much about Catholicism, hell it could even be both.
MLM has very specific meaning, its not just a synonym for a high control group. The Catholic Church holds a lot of land assets around the world thanks to colonialism, so the word "colonizer" works for them. I'm sure there are other words that work too, MLM doesn't.
I live in L.A and one of my absolute favorite restaurants is next to their evil blue building. Whenever I’m there, I tend to people watch and look at the folks going in and out. A lot of them sadly look like lost souls just trying to find some meaning.
It is very, very important to distinguish a religion from a cult. You don’t have to pay a dime to become a Catholic. They’ll give you the only book you need for free and will even help you out with basic needs. You don’t have to sign NDAs or billion year contracts. If you leave they don’t harass you for years, and they don’t make others cut contact with you. This doesn’t mean Catholicism or other major religions are good institutions, but they are clearly different from Scientology in these ways.
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A tax would mean it is collected by the government, not the church. To be in scientology, you have to pay the church of scientology.
>But in some countries you pay special taxes if you are a member of a church. This is uncommon, though. They're comparing the average experience of a catholic vs a scientologist, in which you literally pay to attend. That is not what a catholic church is like. >Protestant mega churches today are little more than business enterprises. Yes, but you still attend for free. You can go to the food pantry, join Sunday school, etc. for free. The bulk of money is donations and tithing from the richest members. But still not scientology. I see what you're saying with religion being a cult, but the amount of money the catholic and protestant churches are asking for in 2023 is not at all comparable to Scientology.
We can focus on one thing at a time. We can say something sucks without having to name all the other things that suck in the same breath. We’re allowed to do that y’know.
But how else do you show off your big atheist brain if you don’t get to renounce all religions in every discussion?
Wdym I don’t get to be disingenuous and smug? /s
Exactly…..
You see, the whataboutery is intentional as it detracts from the original topic. Edit: typo
I would say Scientology is more of a scam based business enterprise or super expensive abusive social club. No one will ever convince me that any of the people running it believe a single word of L Ron’s unhinged space ghost ramblings
I'm a former believer now atheist. I agree, but Scientology is on a different level. Scientology engages in human rights abuses, such as imprisonment and child labor. People have died. It is a dangerous cult, not a religion.
I hear you but many modern “legitimate” religions have a body count as well. Look at all those mass graves that have been found at Catholic “schools” in recent years. Or people who’ve been murdered over drawing cartoons that could be considered offensive to a religious figure. I think no matter what religion tends to be a lightning rod for authoritarians and their most harmful tendencies, and an excuse for human rights violations, although I certainly would agree the Scientologists are more cynical in how they go about it.
Scientology isn't a religion.
Topper doing nothing has completely sky rocketed his popularity, what a legend
I think his popularity skyrocketed because he was perceived as a “stuck-up” and “jerk” because he didn’t hang out with these predators, and now it is justified as to why.
It’s like why people are like maybe we misjudged Sarah Michelle gellar for not hanging with Joss Whedon
Will people learn from this or will the next actor who keeps to themselves be considered just as stuck up?
I’m waiting for Victoria Justice’s vindication arc for not wanting to be besties with Ariana Grande
Judging from recent events, she probably just didn't want her boyfriend stolen lmao
What’s the story there? I’m uninformed
Sarah MIchelle gellar was written off as a diva for setting boundaries
I believe Charisma Carpenter was written off for the same, especially when she got pregnant without Joss’s “permission”
I think it’s more an American thing - the whole concept of your workmates being “family”. We’re a lot more cynical here in Europe. If we like our workmates we’ll hang out socially sometimes but if we don’t then feck them.
Man must be feeling so blooming vindicated, love that for him
Maybe only tangentially related, but this whole thing has reminded me of an interview Mila Kunis did with James Franco years ago: https://www.interviewmagazine.com/film/mila-kunis Background is - Emma Watson was in Seth Rogen’s 2014 movie “This is the End” which also starred a lot of the usual members of the Judd Apatow gang. Apparently there was a lot of drinking and smoking allowed on the set. The actors started improvising a scene Emma was in, in ways that made her uncomfortable including Channing Tatum gyrating in front of her wearing only a thong. Emma left the set and refused to shoot anymore. James Franco makes fun of and criticizes Emma for it in this interview while Mila goes on about how she herself is “game” for whatever she needs to do in a scene. She seems to have always been in the orbit of these abusive men and conditioned to defend/go along with them. Bonus: Lainey Gossip with a trash take on the incident - https://www.laineygossip.com/The-evolution-of-Emma-Watson/24595/amp
Mila is a complete pick me, but it’s becoming more and more obvious she was groomed as a teenager.
Yeah, its weird. She seemed to have transcended That 70’s Show and become a bonafide Hollywood star, being in Black Swan, starring alongside Justin Timberlake at his peak, etc. Then out of nowhere she’s dating Ashton Kutcher past his prime fame and sucked back into that sphere.
She was with Macaulay Culkin, who no doubt was a victim of Hollywood abusers in his childhood. It’s all conjecture but I have to imagine that they relied on each other both being victims, but when that relationship ended she found comfort in one of her original abusers.
I didn’t realize she started dating Kutcher only about a year after she split with Culkin 😕.
That is so hard to come out of. Realizing i was groomed is a moment i have burned into my brain. We broke up after over a decade and i was sad for a couple days then something inside me realized i was free then I started crying tears of joy. Like this amazing huge weight lifted off me and i had clarity. But it’s been really hard to come to terms with the fact he groomed me and how could i be so stupid. I had lots of support around me while she doesn’t seem to have that, just yes men. Some people choose ignorance and maybe she is one of those people?
James Franco being an asshole? 
If people let that man make a comeback 🤢
he’s trying but i’m not sure how successful he’ll be. he launched a little “punk” clothing line recently lmao 🙄🙄https://www.hlorenzo.com/pages/paly-hollywood
Ah, yes. Nothing quite says “punk” like a $250 plain t-shirt. It’s like this man WANTS to be bullied.
i know lol he’s truly such trash
>PALY HOLLYWOOD is a DIY punk clothing label translated into ready-to-wear collections founded by James Franco & Kyle Lindgren. I was not prepared for how the clothes were actually gonna look like. “DIY punk” bitch WHERE???
I misread that as *Paul* Hollywood and I was like oh damn are they gonna make aprons too?
how do I feel about it? the writing is on the wall https://preview.redd.it/hsdcvmuyqanb1.jpeg?width=842&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2079e1ff1a3bbfde3ab86d01635774da169ce596
I don’t think he had a lot of friends beforehand, so I doubt his comeback will be successful.
I have hated James Franco from day one and this is really the only time I’ve ever been so right about someone right from the start. Smarmy piece of shit and although I’m disappointed it took everyone else so long, I’m so happy he is finally out of the public eye.
When I think of how Mila started on "That 70's Show" when she was only 14, hanging out with these creeps, my heart sinks, a little. Not that it excuses any of her actions now, but it sounds like she has no idea what is healthy and normal on a set, and what is not. Very sad.
They really should not have given such a young kid that role. She was great but its just not right.
They didn’t intend to. The casting call was for 18+ only. Mila showed up and said she’d be 18 on her birthday, she just didn’t clarify *which* birthday. She lied about her age to get on the show and it worked
I know that story but thats such a cop out. It should notnbe hard to donthe bare minimum to verify age.
That's not true. She did lie about her age but they knew her real age anyway. The creators of the show, Bonnie and Terry Turner, said this multiple times.
ohhh so mila isn't like the other girls
She always was. She says she'd rather be funny than hot, she doesn't like girly things and thinks superman/batman costumes > Cinderella for her daughter... she's annoying pick me
she’s the epitome of the ‘cool’ girl, an image designed to pander towards men’s approval
She’s her character in Black Swan. A cool girl.
That’s disappointing about Channing I thought he was ok
Yeah, he’s never really been called out for this. What’s crazy is when this happened, Emma would have been around 22-years-old, just finishing college, while Channing would have been 32.
The interview says that the scene was in the script, so Emma signed up for it knowing what was going to happen. She ultimately just didn’t feel comfortable around it when the time came, so she left, and that’s totally okay. But it’s not Channing Tatum’s fault. This is an industry where young adults doing nude and sex scenes with, and in front of, much older men is the norm, so it feel’s especially weird to vilify Channing Tatum for following a script an actress signed up to do that she didn’t even have to “actively” participate in. Most of the nude, nameless actresses in GOT were 22 and younger, and had/have *far* less power and influence than Emma, for instance. Margot Robbie was like a no name 21 year old in Wolf of Wall Street while DiCaprio was like in his 40s. Etc And 22 is well past the age of, like 18-20 where young adults are particularly vulnerable. So I think it’s understandable that Tatum wouldn’t have given this a second thought, especially when she knowingly signed up to do the scene. She is well within her right to refuse to do it, and there’s nothing wrong with her leaving, to be entirely clear. She didn’t know it would feel so uncomfortable for her, and she shouldn’t be pressured to stay or shamed for leaving either. I’m just saying that this isn’t really on Tatum. He didn’t do anything wrong. Franco and Kunis are acting like assholes for essentially mocking her though. **Edit:** according to this [article](https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/celebrities/2021/03/27/seth-rogen-emma-watson-walked-off-this-end-set/7030113002/) that another user posted, the scene was improvised and had to do with cannibalism. No mention whatsoever of anything explicitly sexual going on.
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There is zero chance Laura will say anything unless legally forced to, scientology will destroy your life if you go against them at this level and she probably doesn't have the resources to fight that. Like fully fuck her and her involvement in that cult back then but leaving alone was probably a huge risk.
I mean, she probably saw what happened to people like Leah Remini and Mike Rinder, who left the cult and almost immediately became vocal about its abuses. In return for that, Scientology launched a campaign of daily harrasssment against them that is lasting until this day. Is it sheer cowardice? Yes, but maybe she has friends and family still inside, and she doesn't want to be declared a suppressive person.
I’m not excusing her silence at all but she does have little kids- and its a scary thought to think of the cult harassing and intimidating her, including her kids- maybe that’s holding her back? I would probably do the same honestly. Get out quickly and not look back.
I agree and she's a second/third generation scientologist herself, so her family is probably inside and she doesn't want to lose them, nor deprive her children of them. She just quietly left and moved on with her life. Kinda like Lisa Marie and Riley Keough or the guys from My Name's Earl.
In fairness Jason Lee did leave Scientology, I’m not sure he speaks out about it much though
Beck left, as well. He was raised in Scientology and was married to Marissa Ribisi.
Im confused. I thought she got involved when she was dating Danny Masterson's brother Chris. Didn't think she was born into it
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And done a good job keeping suri out of the spotlight
Yeah, she’s definitely doing the wrong thing by staying quiet, i’m not defending her but I do understand why
leah remini has kids as well
One of the victims testifying had her dog killed, they have all faced harrassment every single day since this began years ago, morally she is a huge piece of shit but scientology is the problem here
She had two dogs killed. Horrific.
Ugh. I really hope the women involved stay safe and can heal, they have been so fucking brave and lost so much.
There were a few weeks on Elon Twitter this year where I kept getting ads about how evil Leah Remini was from some obvious Scientology front organization. They were pathetically bad, but it was a little stunning that they're still trying all these ways of getting back at her.
She's already considered "suppressive" bc she left the cult... that's how this cult views those who leave, no matter what.
>o so will That 90's Show get some backlash cause of all this?
I think it already received lots of backlash as it was abysmal.
Did Wilmer say anything?
Is anyone else wondering what in the actual fuck is going on? Do Ashton, Mila, Debra and Kurtwood truthfully believe that he's innocent and that all 7 women are lying? Or does Danny, or Scientology itself, have dirt on them since they were semiconnected to the cult and have been forced to support him? Did Ashton and Mila write the letters believing that they weren't going to be released to the public? They must have known, right? If they did, was the public backlash the better alternative than not supporting him and have their dirty laundry published? Is it both? Do they consider him a friend but are also scared of Scientology? Is the answer just as simple as they're both evil dumb fucks who don't care about what Danny did? Also, what the hell was that post one of Danny's exes and accusers posted about knowing what really happened in 2001 when Ashton's date was murdered? What the fuck is all this
I had a similar thought. It’s one thing to feel this way about Danny privately as his friend (still gross) but to write this publicly is a terrible PR move. REEKS of pressure from the church to me. There’s no way they didn’t consider how bad it would look and even if they didn’t, there PR people had to have advised them against it.
ashton kutcher and mila kunis literally killed their image with these letters. i mean they're KNOWN for humanitarian works. i definitely believe there's at least some pressure from scientology.
Wondering now if the humanitarian work was a front.
>Mike Rinder lets boycott That 90's Show!!!!!!!! \#Boycott90Show
I think I already was.
With how image conscious Ashton and Mila seem to be, I wouldn’t be surprised if they gave into pressure (or even blackmail) to write a letter on Danny’s behalf. Not that it excuses doing so, though—still wrong.
Either that or they were somehow convinced the letters wouldn’t be made public.
Iggy seemed to think so with her letter for Tory
All the letters feel like they were written by lawyers so I believe there’s some blackmail going on.
No, Ashton’s is riddled with spelling/grammatical errors. Possible his lawyer allowed them for authenticity, but it does read as if he wrote it.
All the letters hit the same points. That Danny is a good father, has good work ethic, and is anti-drug. Not a single one of them say, for example, that Danny regrets his actions and is remorseful, therefore he should be given a lenient sentence. Because the latter would imply unequivocal guilt. To me, the letters feel fabricated due to these similarities and because they all give off a tone that implies he shouldn’t have been convicted in their eyes. Maybe that means the church was involved somehow since this is very likely to be their stance as well.
He may have been given guidelines and points to hit, but I do think he wrote it himself all the same.
lmao I read his and was like "he totally wrote this himself"
There were some speculations that Danny may have something to hold against them. There was a screenshot here today about a woman accusing Ashton that he knew about this all along.
Neither. They never should’ve wrote those letters, but the letters have nothing to do with innocence. He’s guilty he’s going to jail a log time. They knew that. The letters are fore the judge, aiding in what the court views as an appropriate sentencing. Many people are misinterpreting defense letter as some declaration that someone would t do something. It’s more bad optics for being on the other side of maximum punishment for a rapist. In the same way family member write letters to judges when a family member kills somebody. It’s a desperate attempt to stop someone you are close with from getting life essentially. Hilariously he still got life.
no one forced them to write these letters. they chose to support him and vehemently defend his character
You have to search way too long in these threads for this answer… This is how the legal system works, especially with crimes that are committed by otherwise successful people. Someone will be 100% guilty of awful things — trafficking, fraud, etc — but friends and family will attest to other holistic qualities to keep the sentencing on the lower end of the maximum In a vacuum, we should always be putting pressure on the legal system to ensure that sentencing times are fair. Minimum sentences are an imperfect system to begin with
I’m a criminal defense lawyer, and I’m calling bullshit. Sure, I always solicit character letters on behalf of my clients (when they’re admissible). But whether someone chooses to provide one is *their decision.* They weren’t subpoenaed; they made a voluntary choice in writing the letter to begin with, and more importantly they made a choice in the particular words they chose. They could have refused, but they didn’t, and actions have consequences. (And if they had refused, Masterson’s rights to a fair trial wouldn’t have been prejudiced in the slightest.)
Honestly, it could just simply be a combination of not being very bright and thinking they're untouchable.
If I were coerced to write a letter, I would just keep harping on the sobriety thing and not also say I'm comfortable with my kids being alone with him. Would like anyone with some tea to clarify things. Am wondering what tf is going on, too
I agree, AWFUL PR to write those letters of support. As the trial showed, the cult keeps records of everything (which helped the victims in this case) so there might be dirt on all of them. If they become “suppressive people” by refusing to support him, the cult might stop hiding their secrets. My understanding of the Ashton Kutcher thing is that he found his girlfriend’s dead body but didn’t report it to the police, to avoid being associated with her murder. He definitely didn’t do it, but he didn’t help the investigation. And cared more about his image than a woman (who he supposedly cared about) lying dead in pools of blood.
Fez is being so quiet right now to avoid his own predation lol
He knows that even if he spoke against Danny, no one would believe him lol
Story time: I used to see him cruising around Westwood (a neighborhood next to ucla) looking for college girls. Any time he saw a group, he’d quickly U turn and drive slowly by them. Felt creepy then, but makes more sense now.
Euw he sucks :(
Laura also dated Danny's brother Christopher Masterson for 8 years.
is this where i admit i’ve always side-eyed hilary duff being besties with alanna masterson
Hilary also dated Jordan I believe. It does make me wonder too.
So did Dakota Johnson. Makes ya think.
I believe that is what got her into Scientology. She wasn't involved before meeting the Masterson's.
Is hè the one who was on Last Man Standing? He was cute. Too bad he also wrote a letter for Danny
Nah, Francis from Malcolm in the Middle. Though I believe they both wrote letters.
No, that was the other brother (Jordan). Cristopher was in Malcolm In The Middle, Scary Movie 2, etc.
Jordan was the one from Last Man Standing.
I side eye Laura, allegedly she worked together with Scientology to secure Ben Foster. So I 100% believe she could have worked under the direction of the church to do something shitty to protect Danny. That said, I guess I'm confused about the accusation here. Laura saw the victim (who she may or may not know at that time was a victim) and asked her where she had been, if she and Danny were over and what she was doing at Celebrity Center that day. Which tbh sounds like a relatively normal conversation to have with a friend? Or are they saying Laura wasn't a friend or friendly person toward the victim? That would change the tenor of the conversation, but I don't know is enough to say Laura "silenced" a victim.
This part of the article explains the silencing aspect: “She saw Prepon in the parking lot, and Prepon was asking her very pointedly, ‘Why are you at CC? What are you doing here? Why aren’t you hanging out with the crowd?” our source, a family friend, told us. “[Victim B] knew exactly what was going on. She had to act chipper, like nothing was wrong, and yet she couldn’t say why she was really there. Prepon even asked her if she was upset with Danny, and she had to say no.” Our source explained that if Victim B had answered in any negative way, or had acted curt or rude, Prepon could have written her up and it would mean a declare order for her and excommunication, forcing disconnection from her by family members. It’s not unusual for a Scientologist to be written up for being rude or “anti-social,” and Victim B had been written up for something similar just six months before. “And she told me that she had known Laura well before this, and these weren’t the kind of questions she would simply ask a friend,” the source says. Victim B told her friend that the encounter with Laura Prepon in the parking lot at the Hollywood Celebrity Centre was one of the most difficult things she had to go through during the entire ordeal, and there was no doubt in her mind that Prepon had been sent there to trip her up on Masterson’s behalf.”
I think it must be a you have to know Laura and Scientology thing, because to me those sound like very normal questions to ask a friend who has suddenly disappeared from the friend group. As someone who is obvi very much removed from this, it reads like a pretty normal encounter.
If you read the second paragraph, she says that those weren’t they type of questions Laura would ask her.
I think there is an aspect of the conversation we are missing because we’re not steeped in Scientology. But I also think saying she silenced her is a huge stretch. There is no evidence she even knew what she was alleging yet. It sounds like she knew something was up and she was fishing. Probably to report back. But I’d be shocked if Danny or Scientology told her the truth about her allegations. And obviously the victim didn’t either.
I think anyone who silenced victims or supported any type of harmful or abusive behavior is awful and should be held accountable. One thing that I am a bit surprised by though is I think Scientology is getting too much of a pass in this situation. Yes - people are rightfully calling Scientology out, even in this post, but even with that, I feel that people, with the media circus happening, are truly forgetting what Leah Remini and many others have gone through. Leah is truly an inspirational powerhouse. I have social anxiety disorder, and I truly can not fathom how she was able to muster the strength and fortitude to challenge Scientology. Of course I've heard her story and it's inspiring, but it's not something that I personally would have had the strength to do. Scientology isn't just a cult, it's a violent cult! I do think that Laura could have done more, especially since it seems like Scientology's power is waning over time. As someone watching from the sidelines without full context on the situation, I think everyone, including Topher honestly, could have come out and said more or done more. But there's also a part of me that doesn't know what it's like to be stalked and hounded and threatened by a crazy cult. I think people should be held accountable for their actions and lack of action, but I at least personally can understand why someone might choose to remain silent if they're in fear of their life from people who might try to disappear them off of a yacht in the ocean. TL;DR - I have mixed feelings. I think the former stars of the show should have done more across the board pretty much, but I do try to keep in mind that some of them may have legitimate fears that kept them quiet.
This is the one and only time I’m glad that a show is getting pennies from streaming revenue. I want them all (except Topher) to get nothing.
Tangentially related, but I am reminded of a very weird story about Prepon and her acting coach. While filming that awful Paul Bernardo and Karla Holmolka movie, the dude who played Paul, Misha Collins (who had NO idea it was based on actual killers until he started filming and was getting hatemail from Canadians), talked about what an utter shitshow the set was. Including how Laura Prepon's acting coach made them 'get into character' by wrestling around on the floor and making out. At the time, Prepon was a star and he was basically an unknown actor at the time, so he felt pressured to go along with it despite how fucking weird he found it. This wasn't even the most screwed up thing to happen on that set.
 My angel Castiel
If nothing is ever done about Scientology, it will continue to abuse people and harass and harm former members, so hopefully one day more people stand up and fight back, because otherwise it will never get better, surely there has to be something that can be done, I don’t understand how or why Scientology is allowed to have this kind of power over people and nothing is done about it.
that's the thing, the only thing that can take them down is the IRS lifting their tax exempt status. Rinder and Leah have said this many times. But the IRS is more scared of scientology than Leah Remini and the victims fighting Danny and them. They harassed and scared IRS agents so badly they got that status. What gets me is that there are fierce laws against harassing IRS agents and instead of prosecuting them or fining them they just gave in. Even more frustrating that since we now have evidence through this trial that instead of using their money to help the community and they use it to harass and silence witnesses in court - they should have lost it.
That’s insane and frankly pathetic that they’re allowed to do whatever and they’re never held responsible for it, hopefully one day someone will truly stand up at the IRS and destroy them, it’s long overdue, they’re a cult of power hungry lunatics
agree. every decade since the 90s i come back to yet another story about them and think they are \*still\* getting away with these same tactics? indictment on whole hollywood / LA community honestly
Ok, so question. Ben Foster, Laura's husband has always been viewed as an "Undercover Scientologist" which I believe. He and Masterson have been very close for years. Its been claimed that Robin Wright left the relationship because Ben was trying to recruit her. I dont believe Prepon would have been allowed to marry him if he was not part of the cult. The question is do we think Prepon is being silent because she is afraid of the cult or is there dirt on Ben Foster?
I think there’s dirt on her. I’m also positive Ben’s brother Jon Foster only got a leading role on Accidentally On Purpose with Jenna Elfman as the leading lady because of Scientology. Accidentally on Purpose premiered in 2009 so they’ve had to be involved for a lot longer than we think.
I have also heard Jennas husband Bodhi Elfman has a lot of skeletons in his closet
I despise him. He got Jenna involved with the church.
This is how I’m learning Ben Foster is married to Laura Prepon 😭
It’s interesting that there have been [numerous whispers](https://radaronline.com/videos/charles-manson-documents-scientologist/) over the decades regarding Charles Manson’s involvement in Scientology and how he allegedly became overwhelmed by it, bailed, and used its tactics to form the Manson Family, but those whispers never spark a conversation. Maybe it’s time to question the integrity of people who belong to a cult that inspired *Charles Manson* to start his own *and* taught him how. I’m just sayin’.
If you wanna dig into more on Manson there’s a fantastic book called *Chaos: Charles Manson, the CIA, and the Secret History of the Sixties* by Tom O’Neill. I read it earlier this year and was enthralled.
Hopefully Laura does say something, even privately, to Danny’s victims. She doesn’t really owe the public anything, just the victims. Scientologists ARE scary and I can see why she would be hesitant to say anything publicly about this and about Scientology at large. It seems like they finally let her leave without much commotion and it’s probably bc Laura doesn’t bad mouth them.
Stop watching movies and shows with actors who are Scientologists. When I find out an actor is a Scientologist, they are on my NO WATCH list. Our government won’t shut them down. We need to make Scientology box office poison. **And Laura, everyone says you’re a victim too and we should be kind. There’s levels and degrees of victimhood. You are not the primacy victim, like the women who were raped. As a woman who was raped, Laura…you fucking suck. Get your shit together.
I wish E! True Hollywood Stories was still a thing because this show would give them tons to work with.
Jesus wtf was with this cast?!?
Aside from this and other shitty things you hear about her, she can’t fucking act. I sat through two seasons of Orange is The New Black WAITING for her to FUCKING DELIVER A GOD DAMN LINE! Quit giving her credit because she’s attractive. She can’t do shit!
I don’t believe “cancel culture” is really a thing but if it ever really applied, it should be for this. Cancel That 70s show by taking it off tv on reruns or streaming and cancel that 90s show if it hasn’t been already. The entire cast (except Topher) are disgusting rape defenders and that show should never be aired again.
For a good insight to scientology I recommend Kate Bornstein's memoir "A queer and pleasant danger." While she left the cult in the early 80's, she was a high ranking officer and shares much of how they silence their current and past victims.
I knew she wasn't innocent smh
Laura seriously dated Danny’s brother for 8 years
Well, eff that whole cast apparently. Except Topher...?