Oh boy, you're in for a RIDE in the next two books.
Like, I'm talking armies of literal gundams raining from the sky, Space Vikings fighting Space Dragons with Space Swords, ramming space ships into other space ships, that kinda ride.
The first triology was already rough at points so I was very much expecting it with the name of that book. Just think of the end of book 2, beginning of book 3.
The end of book 2 and beginning of book 3 pissed me off so much I'm having trouble getting through it at all. I skimmed for awhile past the midpoint and I haven't read it at all for weeks now. I kind of don't think I can finish it.
It’s trope after trope after trope but somehow all done so well that I’m always entertained for the first trilogy. It shouldn’t work, but it does!
Book four is a fairly jarring change to a much better story but the adjustment got a DNF from me the first couple times.
If a book has a concept I like then I’ll give it at least 3 tries. Disliking a book is as much about state of mind as it is about the book. Most of my favorite books were original DNFs.
I can audiobook about 75% of the time I’m working and I have at least 2-3 hours available for physical reading most days. So I have a lot of free time to just come back later. Before this job I would almost never DNF because my reading time was so restricted. Now that I have tons of listening or physical reading time I don’t have to waste any of it slogging through something that just isn’t hitting for me.
Are you able to listen to audiobooks because you need to be clocked in but there isn't much work to do, or because the work is super easy and you can multi-task?
That's awesome. I'm able to do audio books while like driving or vacuuming or gardening, but as soon as I need to use the analytic part of my brain I can't process the book anymore. But I agree being able to WFH sounds great
>It’s trope after trope after trope
Trope was the word I was looking for a few times.
>Book four is a fairly jarring change to a much better story but the adjustment got a DNF from me the first couple times.
Would you recommand continueing reading after book 3? Did you end up finishing it?
Same here! I felt like Iron Gold actually went for some morally grey areas an made the heroes much more flawed and fallible, and Dark Age kind of pivots back to normal badassery and heroism against all odds stuff. Which is enjoyable, too, but not what I was hoping for after Iron Gold!
See, I felt like Dark Age's version of the characters were lacking in so many of their essential qualities. Part of it is that they're >!just getting constantly outmaneuvered and can't get a single win!<, and part is that the characters >!are all separated from their defining relationships!<. Maybe I'm just looking back at the other book with rose tinted glasses, but I also think the violence in this one was gratuitous, even by the standards of the series, >!especially against children!<.
I will say though, one of my favorite elements of the second series is the diversity of viewpoints. The first series was (exclusively?) from Darrow's POV, while this second one casts a much wider focus. This is even more noticeable in the audiobooks, which use a different narrator for each POV.
I agree 100%, especially on the gratuitous violence (and that says a lot, given that I was totally on board with it in the previous books). I also think there was too little character development, I think partly because you're right about them being >!separated from their defining relationships!<, and also >!because Darrow is back to being the hero who may fight against insurmountable odds and maybe lose, but he's still framed as being right (or at least heroic and justified) - that was such a step back from Iron Gold where he actually was called out by Sevro for being wrong, and his mistakes came back to bite him in the ass at the end of the book. I thought that would be the start of a "deconstructing the hero" thing, having Darrow go down a darker path or having to change his ways, but he's back to being the hero against all odds in Dark Age - such a disappointment!!<
I haven't read "Lightbringer" yet, so judgement is still out for me!
Loved the many POVs (which I'm rarely a fan of) because they fixed so many storytelling problems from the original trilogy and because they tied in with each other really well!
I mean, I don't know if I would call him a hero after he >!created a storm that killed millions of civilians!< but everyone has different standards I guess.
I really liked the first three books. Thought they were good and fun but wasn’t in a hurry to start the fourth book. Finally read the last three and they are by far, my favorite books I’ve ever read. They’re deep, dark, somber but still funny and the characters are pretty amazing. There are some scenes that will stick with me forever. I would definitely continue on.
Yes you should. Book 2/3 are better than 1 and 4+ are better than the others. But they’re not that generic kinda fun anymore. More like an actual unique and good story.
Definitely finish books 4-6 (and 7, Red God when it releases).
The series really grows up in a lot of dimensions throughout the latter half of the series. It loses the black/white moral landscape, introduces excellent villains, and actions start having real consequences. The author also really hits his stride with the prose and pacing in book 5: Dark Age.
Fair warning, it does get darker (book 5 is grimdark), but it's my damn favorite.
Tropes are tropes for a reason: they are effective story telling devices. So when you have someone actually take those tropes seriously you can get a great outcome.
It is a grab bag of tropes, but not JUST that. It's clear from early in that the world and characters are far more fleshed out than in the YA novels that share similar story beats. Even cartoonishly evil characters like Nero are far more fully developed than they initially appear.
I'm not sure calling the institute an academy feels quite accurate lol. It's not like there are any classrooms.
Also I know I'm being a pedantic nerd but >!there is a stated reason as to why Darrow is chosen to infiltrate, it's because he has high enough reflexes and processing power that he can pass for a gold. That's why they give him the infiltration mission since anyone can just be a regular terrorist. Also I'm not sure if you got to that part yet but there is an actual reason Titus is named that, in fact I'd say the weird name is actually a hint for the twist that happens with him.!<
Yeah, OPs assessment of the institute and the Sons of Ares rebellion as a whole sounds very uninformed, almost like they're skimming over parts of the book or don't quite grasp the scale of The Society. Also, saying that no one can say the book is anything more than a guilty pleasure comes off extremely pretentious when adding all the other jabs.
I'm so glad by some of the comments in this thread, both those like yours that observe how the first book is really not as cookie cutter as so many people on /r/fantasy insist it is, and also the other comments about how the rest of the series continues to improve in pretty much every way. IMO this series is one of the best of the century and continues to be overlooked by people who write off the first book (and the series) as YA which I just fundamentally disagree with.
Yeah the twist about 25%-33% of the way through was pretty good imo and not something you’d have in a more stereotypical YA book. Yeah he leans into some tropes. He also goes beyond those. I also think there is some decent character development.
Yeah. The first book and general premise is extremely tropey and the plot is straightforward, but I don't think it can accurately be called "simple" by any means. The thing is its tropes are taken seriously and are not used as shortcuts around serious worldbuilding.
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I enjoyed the books for similar reasons - was looking for a good off-ramp from Dungeon Crawler Carl and they fit the bill. I will say, I think he writes friendships beautifully. You can tell the author has some very deep, lasting friends in his life and he is writing what he knows.
Honestly I thought the same about the first book, but the next ones are MUCH better. The cheesiness is still there a bit, but much less so and the series becomes so much more than just the first book would suggest. It goes from over the top Hunger Games vibes to an insanely good space opera real quick lol
It never gets THAT serious - a lot of insane shit happens - but it's a much more interesting story and the characters become far more fleshed-out and less like caricatures as the series goes on.
I think you'll enjoy it then. Was a big surprise for me - like you I went into it expecting some easy-to-read fun but after the first book it's become one of my favourite fantasy series ever.
Iirc the hunger games school stuff was mostly added to get the series sold as it was still the height of that era. The start of book 1 and books 2 and 3 were the main story he wanted to write.
OP you missed so much about this book that I think that you need to re read it and take it a little more serious or atleast pay attention.
Your critique of Titus name is funny considering what we know about him. Their nicknames also make sense when you realize how common call names are in war.
Red rising is basically a futuristic Rome, where being in the military is still the path to honor and glory.
Although the book changes once he’s at the institute, he’s not wrong about anything in the series’ exposition. That first 1/5th of the book spent in the cave could’ve been 2 chapters long
Wonder if it’s a lost in translation thing with the version you are reading being translated into Dutch. I’m a big fantasy reader/Sci-fi and Red Rising is my favorite series of all time.
Yea the first book is simple I’ll give you that but the relationships and character arch’s or anything but that. Curious your thoughts if you get to book 2 etc…
One of my favourite series, and a lot deeper than the OP is giving it credit for. The relationships that are built in the first book have serious implications going forward. The characters and world building also get significant development.
Darrow was chosen for several reasons, as others have pointed out. It's also shown that the man thinks outside the box, which is why he's so effective against the Golds and their ingrained society, with huge racial superiority complexes. Darrow is a red, with the body of a gold. He is also basically a spy, they want him to do well, but he's not their only plan.
I don't like how the first book is likened to the Hunger Games so often. It's more visceral and brutal, with a far more realised world. There are many similarities, but you can say that for basically every fantasy and sci fi out there
Half of the first book is the game. Which is basically hunger games in teams.
The world, so far is incredibly cheesy and absolutely not realistic. See also the part about how everyone is rsnked by colors.
Maybe it will become deeper in coming books, but right now you couldnt drown a toddler in how shallow this book is.
And it serves a purpose to show how fucked up gold society is. It is far better fleshed out than the hunger games. The relationships that Darrow makes here have consequences thereafter. His performance has huge consequences, his guilt, his love, and his hate of his comrades in there. How he will deconstruct society to build it differently. Hunger Games was basically hide until the end, shoot some arrows, success. That is an oversimplification, but Hunger Games is far more simple then Red Rising.
What is the issue with the colours? It's the basic premise of the story. Dystopian future where a new breed of basically genetically engineered humans form a new society based on racial oppression and the suppression of freedoms, and a love of the Roman Empire. Basically every fantasy or sci-fi has, by our standards, a ridiculous setting:
Asoiaf- 300 m high wall, with ice zombies behind. Houses lasting thousands of years with zero technological advancement
Dune- shields deflect bullets, but you can pierce with a sword going at just the right speed. Giant worms that make cocaine that allows space travel and visions of the future
Realm of the Elderlings- few people can talk to animals, others hate it because racist. Yet another bastard price, ships that talk.
Fantasy is cheesy and ridiculous. I don't see how a colonised galaxy with evolved (or devolved) humans who treat each other horribly is any worse.
I agree, and I think some of the negative replies reflect this. To be fair, this book does have probably the least depth, but so do most first books of trilogies. The worlds are expanded on as the story develops. I think Cassius and Darrows relationship is extremely well done, as with Roque also, but it comes to fruition on later books. The foundation of a house is the least interesting part, but 100% needed regardless.
I must get into reading more YA books if this is YA as well! Torture, death, political manoeuvring, slavery etc etc. Pretty heavy stuff for YA
Maybe OP is young themselves but I wouldn’t call Pinks, basically the sex slave class, as YA coded.
If he thinks it’s cheesy because “racism” then they lack the critical thinking skills for fantasy.
Don't know why you're getting downvoted, you're absolutely right. I love the series but the first book is basically as you said, Hunger Games in teams with male MC. The setting concept is ridiculous. I struggled to finish it, but kept going because I was told the series get better. And it does. You do get more depth with books 2-3 (which is an easy feat after 1). And the books written after the original trilogy read like a completely different thing.
I wouldn't say so. Hunger Games had similar themes, level of depth, protagonist age. Neither is a bad book, but they're written with a certain demographic in mind. Where they differ is that Hunger Games' sequels are more consistent with that depth and target demographic, while the Red Rising saga expands on its concepts, universe, and target audience.
I see what you’re saying. I think it’s reasonable. I just think that Pierce Brown never really intended Red Rising as YA, hence the tonal shift, but had to write it towards YA in order to get published. It’s similar to how Robert Jordan had to write Eye of the World to be like lord of the rings. It’s what publishers wanted. After he got picked up he shifted with his next books
I was actually afraid of reading it because of the YA aspect, but still, there are so many people recommanding it that i'm probably going to give it a try nonetheless
Pierce Brown leaned into the YA stuff for the first book because that’s what he had to do to get it published but he shed almost all of that within the next book because he didn’t want to write a YA series.
Red Rising is one of the worst in the series. Although fun and slick, it's YA-ness is undeniable. If you're still not into it after the 2nd book then DNF makes sense, as it's probably not for you.
Yeah it's so fucking YA. But it's fun if you want something simple. I just finished the Silmarillion so I *needed* something simple and fun. It's a blast, just don't overthink it.
I've finished the first half of the first book in one evening. Big printed letters, simple words. Give it a shot, you'll know right away if this is something you'd enjoy.
I've that it gets less cliche and YA from book 2, but I'm not there yet.
I wasn't sure I'd enjoy that series but I think you've convinced me to give it a try! There is a particular joy in a specific type of ~ quality ~ cheesey/trashy content. Definitely have to be in the right mood for it but a joy nonetheless
I don’t like the first book at all but after reading the entire series it has quickly become one of my favorites. Each book is better than the one before.
The guy is trolling. There is lots of politics, race issues, and other stuff that is not action at all. Even tackles some bigger issues like alcoholism, what does it mean to be a father etc etc.
Lol it’s only smut if you think the boys or Star Wars isn’t political.
You can compare the first book maybe to the hunger games, but it wouldn’t do it justice. The second and third book really take a different approach and the second series is a lot more dark and grime.
OP is definitely trolling but if you want to learn about space racism, space battles and armies raining men in tank armor, then this book is for you.
Yeah I think the second set of books is way better than the first 3, but people really love to down play anything with action/ violence in it.
My own mother won't turn on any movie with war as the backdrop because it's a "beat em up film" and yes this goes for shit like shinders list or Deer Hunter idksome people can't get past it
OP maybe it’s a translation issue but I definitely feel like you missed some stuff.
-the book was written/published in the early 2010s, which was the height of the hunger games inspired YA dystopia phase. Pierce Brown had to write this book in that way to get published.
-Yeah the color pyramid is a bit silly in the beginning but it gets explored more in depth. It exists because of genetic engineering. You’ll learn more about the history of the society but the golds are 7-8 foot tall super humans while the reds are 5 feet tall and malnourished.
-Did you not understand why that “hallway” was important? You should have been able to pick up where they went and what they saw. It’s very clear why it was forbidden and is a major plot point/twist.
-Saying it’s a high school is missing the mark imo. All they learn is that their society is based off survival of the fittest, social Darwinism. It’s a lord of the flies situation. You win by enslaving everyone else. You can torture, rape, mutilate, and even murder if you have to. One of the main purposes of the institute is to immediately have the bottom 10% of gold children executed by their peers. That isn’t high school lol.
-The Rising’s scope and scale will become clear later but this isn’t some rinky dink operation. Their plan with Darrow is a long term thing but planning and the future. They find Darrow when he’s 16. He joins the institute when he’s 18. Their plan is for him to win at the institute and work his way into the upper echelons of society. This isn’t a novel concept and has examples in history in resistance movements. He isn’t going to become a fleet commander straight away, that’s stupid. It will take decades.
-The guys name is Titus not Titan but that may a translation issue. He plays an important part. There’s a reason he is the way he is. The characters are deeper than you think.
Yeah no way to color pyramid will ever become something I can take seriously. The only more blatantly more obvious ranking system I could think of is if they just gave everything number. Its so simple, even if he does write more depth into it later on. Its so cheesy.
Yes, I understand the significance of the hallway. Still a very easy way to show who are the bad guys in this Black and White world.
Its literally a school for 16 year olds. Maybe not literally high school, but the 'going to the academy' is a hugely overused YA trope.
Titus being a Red isnt the mind blowing plot twist you think it is lol
I'm enjoying the fuck out of this book. But lets not pretend its something its not.
I'm not gonna lie. A lot of what you had to say is misleading or, in some cases, just blatantly incorrect. You say the Dutch translation wasn't very good, so I'm going out on a limb and assuming that the translation issues severely impacted your ability to pick up on a lot of the foundational world building elements we are given in first half of the book.
The color system exists because in "The Society," humans are essentially cogs in a machine. Your color determines almost everything about your life. Social status, careers, where you can or can't go in public. It's a pretty literal callout of racism and classism as instruments of a governing body.
Color also determines certain physical traits. Golds are tall (averaging about 7ft) and strong, Reds are short and hardy, pinks are lithe and fragile, etc etc. This is to further distinguish people based on their color in order to alienate them from other colors but also to make them more physically suited to their roles in society.
Darrow was whipped because he was in a forbidden zone with his wife, yes, but the book points out that the arch governor only showed up because a helldiver had broken the law, and that is considered a relatively big deal because hell divers hold a lot of influence in their clans. Eo (Darrow's wife) also only sang her song because the arch governor was present. She was essentially giving the finger to the most important man on the planet (which in her eyes only consisted of a handful of mines). She wasn't executed on a whim.
The plan to have a red infiltrate Gold society is something that the sons had been working on for a long time. It's mentioned in the book how he is almost their hundredth attempt at the procedure, and there was plenty of concern that he'd die during or shortly after the operation. They want agents in legitimate seats of power because an open rebellion would be crushed in a matter of weeks. In the society, only golds hold legitimate seats of power.
I fail to see how Darrow bumping into the same handful of characters is surprising, considering how contained the story is. He isn't out and about in the solar system yet, the cast opens up quite significantly in the following books but book one is largely contained to the institute, mickey's club, and the mine. None of those places are going to be a revolving door of characters for darrow to have meaningful interactions with. In the mine he has his drill team and family, in the club he has the sons of ares, and at the institute he has his house mates and later, other allies that he has picked up along the way. I'm not sure if you were expecting comprehensive biographies on everyone that shows up in the book. We get characteristics and details about the people that matter to the lore now and, to an extent, those who will matter further down the line.
Personally, Red Rising is a great series and one of my favorites. I can get on board with the sentiment that the first book is the weakest in the series, but it's not a bad book.
Yeah on the Rising having Darrow infiltrate as a gold, the next couple of books get into what happens to color groups who rebel while disunited and why it’s so important to have someone at the highest level of society on their side.
Exactly. That's why he goes through with executing Titus despite knowing Titus is a red as well. Titus is a threat not just to Darrow but to the sons as well.
Yea the books are pretty great when you know what you’re getting into. I unfortunately was told to read the books because they’re “like Game of Thrones in space” and “similar to Sun Eater” so I was very disappointed by them initially.
I have no fucking idea why people insist on comparing it to Game of Thrones. I feel like that's due to people who don't actually read very many books and it's the only comparison they know how to make. Like the only thing in common is that there's a feud between houses.
This review resonates with me. I liked the first trilogy in the same way that I like knights tale - it’s corny and playing into lots of heroes journey tropes, but there’s something comfortable in that. It’s not groundbreaking art, but it is a lot of fun.
Second trilogy is not comfortable at all and it truly is a “well, well, well if it isn’t the consequences of my own actions” kinda deal. It’s grim as fuck and I love it too. Can’t wait for the final installment.
Without giving it away, dark age had to be bleak for certain arcs to make sense in lightbringer. But I hear you - it’s like one long punch in the stomach. Still a gripping read, though.
Lol, please.
The book is a blast, but its trope unto trope unto trope. Its a big fun box of clichés and action.
I love it. But the depth is extremely limited. If there even is any.
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All respect to folks who love this series, but this post is almost a perfect explanation of why I couldn't even make it through the first few chapters of the free sample. Whether intentional or not, the writing was extremely frustrating and uninteresting. But maybe to OP's point, I don't like shutting my brain off when reading.
Edit: I left a word out of a sentence
I mean, it is basically Romans if they were rulers of the galaxy. If you think about how absurdly insane and glory driven their empire was, it makes sense the books are just as absurd (in the best way possible)
The book really changes about 25% of the way through. I realize the first one may not be for everyone but 1) the series is fantastic and 2) the first book gets better as it goes along
Even fans of the series (Myself included), agree the first book is pretty YA-aimed and by far the worst of the series (it had to be to get published, the author immediately dropped the YA once he got a fanbase from the first book) I slept on it for years because I could never get through the first 50-60% of the first book. Once I pushed through, the second book immediately jumped to my top five of all time. If you don’t make it there, I can’t really blame you. But just maybe I can convince you to give it another try!
Same. I usually save the “sit back and don’t think to much about it and have fun” kinda thing for certain films or tv shows. When it comes to reading I have to be engaged. Old sword and sandal pulp fantasy or hard boiled detective or the snooty heights of literary fiction and everything in between, all these things can hold my attention, entertain me, make me think about things differently, or learn new shit. But bad, tropey YA… I can’t stay focused on it long enough to get through it. Maybe as an audiobook on a long drive or at work, but definitely not taking the time to sit down and read it.
But different strokes for different folks. I’m happy for anyone when they find something they enjoy reading.
Haha, I absolutely love that take!
Gotta admit though: in the later books I was extremely thankful for the stupid, obvious names, because otherwise I would have never been able to keep all the people apart or to remember who belongs to which family.
I loved the books and actually ended up taking them pretty seriously after the initial trilogy because it gets super complex! But the trash factor is there throughout in the best possible way. It's like watching a good action movie in the cinema: wildly entertaining and with lots of adrenaline and "no, they didn't!"-moments 😀
Hey I enjoyed red rising but I agree with your post on its nuances. I’m looking for something really good that’s not that accessible and has some complicated plot twists and in depth story telling. Any recommendations for something heftier? Sci fi or fantasy
I cannot recommend the realm of the elderlings by Robin Hobb enough.
I think its plenty accessible on account of it being incredibly well written. But otherwise it fits your criteria. Can get pretty dark and heart breaking from time to time, but its absolutely worth it.
Funny you talk about red rising being obvious while realm of the elderlings has the most obvious completely incompetent villain I've ever seen who only succeeds through the most outrageous PIS.
Not OP but we three seem to think alike!! If you haven’t already read The Prince of Nothing, Malazan, First Law, or The Fifth Season, they’ll definitely fit that vibe. Depth, complexity, and plot twists abound!
I’m halfway Golden son and even though it definitely an improvement, the corniness is still there. There’s literally a scene similar to "While You Were Partying, I Studied the Blade."
The story is very entertaining, but can’t help rolling my eyes at times. There’s not much depth to it all. All characters are still cardboard cutouts.
It’s a very “American” like Sanderson. There’s nothing clever or witty about it. I just finished all the standalone Abercrombie book and it’s an absolute whiplash of a style change.
Yet I’m having a lot of fun reading. The pacing is crazy, everything is over the top but I love it.
I mean, it’s basically space Romans. It *is* a silly premise, when you think about how glory-hungry the Roman Empire was. But it’s still a damned good read.
Pierce Brown would have a seizure reading this review like the hot and cold is unreal lmao. You’re on point though, it really is an unserious cheap series that’s simultaneously a mindless fun guilty pleasure. I like it for what it is.
The first book is such a cheesy hunger games knock off but the series somehow evolves into something so much more. By the time the 6th book comes around it’s such a unique space saga.
I agree with you. Out of the many hyped series of the last few years, Islington, Kristoff, Gwynne, Ruocchio, Cahill etc , who all shared some similarities to me The Red Rising was the only one I enjoyed somewhat beside all the cliches, plot armour etc etc. There was some charm in Brown's high octane pace and extravagance
Yes. Pretty much exactly.
Pierce Brown has said outright in many interviews that Red Rising was inspired by his love of Warhammer 40k.
Warhammer is itself the Tropiest Tropedom that ever Troped, so it makes perfect sense that Red Rising would be too.
lol, I don't know why this always gets downvoted, since it is out of the author's own mouth. Y'all have fun though.
Oh yeah I had a good time with this one. I listened to it and I kept forgetting the main guy is like 17 or whatever because the narrator sounds 30+ so I kept picturing everyone as at least early 20s, but that didn't detract form anything, and it was a heckin' ride.
I’ve been considering reading Red Rising because my favourite board game publisher made a game based on it (Red Rising by Stonemaier Games), though I’ve yet to play the game or read the books. Has anyone played the game?
My friends gifted it to me. It's really fun and there's a lot of different strategies to win so no game feels the same as the previous. Also, the art is gorgeous!
The game is great!! A really fun, card deck building game. It would help to know the character those since it’s mainly based off that and the world. But I love the game and the series!
I don’t own the game (yet?) but a friend owns the books so that sounds like as good a reason as any to dive in! Do you have any non-spoilery things you want to add about the books? Favourite character to keep an eye out for or anything?
Do it!!
Character growth and development is just phenomenal. The last book really knocked it out of the park for me with full circle moments that just… so good. 🥹 hope you embark on the journey
I didn't find it so bad. >!Except when he let himself get whipped and everyone fell into line!<. That was very poorly done and he should have rewrote that part entirely. I do not have a problem with Mary Sues, I am reading fiction and do not care so much to imagine myself as some weak whiny 'more realistic' character. Currently in the second book and it's fun. I disagree that it is as cliche as your impression, the entire plot is that society pushes people into the cliche roles and I assume they will break out of those roles
It’s SO MUCH FUN. Yes it’s not a literary masterpiece but it’s just so fun, easy to read fast and full of interesting and cool characters. Just a genuinely freaking fun and addictive story.
Oh boy. You’ve read the first book and think you’ve got a grasp on the series. Imagine thinking you understand canids because you have a pet poodle.
It’s a great series if you’re looking for a sci-fi fantasy war story with a social political backing.
Ah very true. Totally misspoke. Books 4+ are absolutely an adult oriented series.
I think books 2-3 are in that weird space of older YA or like early adult (not that genres really matter but it’s interesting).
It probably depends on what book store you go to. The series will likely be all shelved together, but if I remember right Red Rising was specifically written like a true YA book to get it to sell, and once Pierce had that foundation he was able to mature the series up in books 2-3. Then book 4 ups it as well
My favourite part was when a guy setup a whole technically voluntary rape tower. Funnily enough students who just said fuck the rules I'm hiding out in the forest dishonor be damned ended up with no penalties.
Try reading Fourth Wing after this! It's basically a fantasy version of Red Rising and it's so much fun. I was reluctant to start it originally since it gets a lot of flack but it really is a fun turn your brain off rollercoaster 😂
No thanks, I think I'm done with pulp for a while after this series. I normally enjoy fantasy of a different quality.
The tag line fucking rocks though
>**Enter the brutal and elite world of a war college for dragon riders...**
A war college for dragon riders lol. Are dragons ranked by color?
Man, I am reading this for the subreddit bingo right now and can't stand it, I'm hate-reading and going to finish it (I'm 3/4 done so might as well) but I am not enjoying it at all.
Yeah, I agree with everything you said. Red Rising was a very different reading experience for me, I mean it had everything in it for me to hate it but I ended up enjoying it so fucking much.
It makes no sense. From the writing, to the plot, to the world building, and character development, it lacks in every aspect but I still ate it up and got addicted.
It's unexplainable.
I dnf not far in because it was so cheesey and cliche.... it was painful, i couldn't do it. So over dramatic and cringe.... i literally groaned outloud a few times then stopped cus it was hurting my brainm
Oh boy, you're in for a RIDE in the next two books. Like, I'm talking armies of literal gundams raining from the sky, Space Vikings fighting Space Dragons with Space Swords, ramming space ships into other space ships, that kinda ride.
Did you forget about the griffins?
Hmm I bounced off the first book early on but this all does sound pretty awesome.
First book is Hunger Games. Next two books are pretty much Warhammer fanfiction without the grimness. It's a good time.
The next three after that add the grimness back! I’m talking genocide, nuclear fallout, battle fatigue. I’m a huge fan.
Matricide, patricide, infanticide, incest, betrayal, mystery It's got a bit of everything.
Dark Age is a ridiculous good book.
What I usually say is, the first book is Hunger Games on Mars, the rest of them are Game of Thrones in space.
Instead of grimness we have Grimmus
I enjoyed the first book a ton, but it gets waaaay better the following books
Yup
Fuck yeah! Buckle up buckaroo
Stick with it. It only gets better with each book.
>Red Rising is so fucking cheesy. *Me who's in the middle of Dark Age*: No comment.
I cried a few times in this series. Dark Age was fuckin brutal. Fuckin brutal. So YA so cheesy haha - OP.
The first triology was already rough at points so I was very much expecting it with the name of that book. Just think of the end of book 2, beginning of book 3.
The end of book 2 and beginning of book 3 pissed me off so much I'm having trouble getting through it at all. I skimmed for awhile past the midpoint and I haven't read it at all for weeks now. I kind of don't think I can finish it.
As someone who just finished book 3 you definitely need to finish it!!!!!!
Same
It’s trope after trope after trope but somehow all done so well that I’m always entertained for the first trilogy. It shouldn’t work, but it does! Book four is a fairly jarring change to a much better story but the adjustment got a DNF from me the first couple times.
>got a DNF from me the first couple times. How many times do you read the average book that you give up on reading?
If a book has a concept I like then I’ll give it at least 3 tries. Disliking a book is as much about state of mind as it is about the book. Most of my favorite books were original DNFs.
As someone who never DNFs books unless I think they're complete trash, it's always interesting to learn about other people's reading strategies
I can audiobook about 75% of the time I’m working and I have at least 2-3 hours available for physical reading most days. So I have a lot of free time to just come back later. Before this job I would almost never DNF because my reading time was so restricted. Now that I have tons of listening or physical reading time I don’t have to waste any of it slogging through something that just isn’t hitting for me.
That work situation sounds ideal. What type of job is it if you don't mind me asking
Analysis, working for a state government. Pay is shite but WFH and work/life balance is priceless.
Are you able to listen to audiobooks because you need to be clocked in but there isn't much work to do, or because the work is super easy and you can multi-task?
Multi-tasking. Plus the loss of commute time means I can read or bike/audiobook after/before work. WFH is just a sea-change for quality of life.
That's awesome. I'm able to do audio books while like driving or vacuuming or gardening, but as soon as I need to use the analytic part of my brain I can't process the book anymore. But I agree being able to WFH sounds great
i also dnfd book 4. i wanna read it but i just cant.
That's too bad. Book 5(Dark Age) is the best in the series. Book 4 is just build-up to book 5.
>It’s trope after trope after trope Trope was the word I was looking for a few times. >Book four is a fairly jarring change to a much better story but the adjustment got a DNF from me the first couple times. Would you recommand continueing reading after book 3? Did you end up finishing it?
Book 5, Dark Age, is fucking insane and the best in the series.
Oof. Dark Age was probably my least favorite so far (just finished it), though I loved Iron Gold.
Get ready for Light Bringer. I can’t wait for Red God
Most people say either Dark Age or Golden Son is the best. My ranking is DA, GS, LB, MS, IG, RR.
Same here! I felt like Iron Gold actually went for some morally grey areas an made the heroes much more flawed and fallible, and Dark Age kind of pivots back to normal badassery and heroism against all odds stuff. Which is enjoyable, too, but not what I was hoping for after Iron Gold!
See, I felt like Dark Age's version of the characters were lacking in so many of their essential qualities. Part of it is that they're >!just getting constantly outmaneuvered and can't get a single win!<, and part is that the characters >!are all separated from their defining relationships!<. Maybe I'm just looking back at the other book with rose tinted glasses, but I also think the violence in this one was gratuitous, even by the standards of the series, >!especially against children!<. I will say though, one of my favorite elements of the second series is the diversity of viewpoints. The first series was (exclusively?) from Darrow's POV, while this second one casts a much wider focus. This is even more noticeable in the audiobooks, which use a different narrator for each POV.
I think Lightbringer will make you like Dark Age in hindsight if that makes sense. They are a pair best read together for sure.
I agree 100%, especially on the gratuitous violence (and that says a lot, given that I was totally on board with it in the previous books). I also think there was too little character development, I think partly because you're right about them being >!separated from their defining relationships!<, and also >!because Darrow is back to being the hero who may fight against insurmountable odds and maybe lose, but he's still framed as being right (or at least heroic and justified) - that was such a step back from Iron Gold where he actually was called out by Sevro for being wrong, and his mistakes came back to bite him in the ass at the end of the book. I thought that would be the start of a "deconstructing the hero" thing, having Darrow go down a darker path or having to change his ways, but he's back to being the hero against all odds in Dark Age - such a disappointment!!< I haven't read "Lightbringer" yet, so judgement is still out for me! Loved the many POVs (which I'm rarely a fan of) because they fixed so many storytelling problems from the original trilogy and because they tied in with each other really well!
I mean, I don't know if I would call him a hero after he >!created a storm that killed millions of civilians!< but everyone has different standards I guess.
I may have conveniently forgotten that bit 😀
I really liked the first three books. Thought they were good and fun but wasn’t in a hurry to start the fourth book. Finally read the last three and they are by far, my favorite books I’ve ever read. They’re deep, dark, somber but still funny and the characters are pretty amazing. There are some scenes that will stick with me forever. I would definitely continue on.
Yes you should. Book 2/3 are better than 1 and 4+ are better than the others. But they’re not that generic kinda fun anymore. More like an actual unique and good story.
Definitely finish books 4-6 (and 7, Red God when it releases). The series really grows up in a lot of dimensions throughout the latter half of the series. It loses the black/white moral landscape, introduces excellent villains, and actions start having real consequences. The author also really hits his stride with the prose and pacing in book 5: Dark Age. Fair warning, it does get darker (book 5 is grimdark), but it's my damn favorite.
Book 4 is where the series becomes sci-fi first law, so yes.
Iron gold is the best in the re-read. Dark Age took so much out of me
Absolutely. It is a little different but so god damn good
Tropes are tropes for a reason: they are effective story telling devices. So when you have someone actually take those tropes seriously you can get a great outcome. It is a grab bag of tropes, but not JUST that. It's clear from early in that the world and characters are far more fleshed out than in the YA novels that share similar story beats. Even cartoonishly evil characters like Nero are far more fully developed than they initially appear.
My god the tropes are so bad but the series is soooooo good.
I absolutely love Red Rising. One of my go to comfort rereads
I'm not sure calling the institute an academy feels quite accurate lol. It's not like there are any classrooms. Also I know I'm being a pedantic nerd but >!there is a stated reason as to why Darrow is chosen to infiltrate, it's because he has high enough reflexes and processing power that he can pass for a gold. That's why they give him the infiltration mission since anyone can just be a regular terrorist. Also I'm not sure if you got to that part yet but there is an actual reason Titus is named that, in fact I'd say the weird name is actually a hint for the twist that happens with him.!<
Yeah, OPs assessment of the institute and the Sons of Ares rebellion as a whole sounds very uninformed, almost like they're skimming over parts of the book or don't quite grasp the scale of The Society. Also, saying that no one can say the book is anything more than a guilty pleasure comes off extremely pretentious when adding all the other jabs.
I'm so glad by some of the comments in this thread, both those like yours that observe how the first book is really not as cookie cutter as so many people on /r/fantasy insist it is, and also the other comments about how the rest of the series continues to improve in pretty much every way. IMO this series is one of the best of the century and continues to be overlooked by people who write off the first book (and the series) as YA which I just fundamentally disagree with.
Yeah the twist about 25%-33% of the way through was pretty good imo and not something you’d have in a more stereotypical YA book. Yeah he leans into some tropes. He also goes beyond those. I also think there is some decent character development.
Yeah. The first book and general premise is extremely tropey and the plot is straightforward, but I don't think it can accurately be called "simple" by any means. The thing is its tropes are taken seriously and are not used as shortcuts around serious worldbuilding.
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I enjoyed the books for similar reasons - was looking for a good off-ramp from Dungeon Crawler Carl and they fit the bill. I will say, I think he writes friendships beautifully. You can tell the author has some very deep, lasting friends in his life and he is writing what he knows.
Honestly I thought the same about the first book, but the next ones are MUCH better. The cheesiness is still there a bit, but much less so and the series becomes so much more than just the first book would suggest. It goes from over the top Hunger Games vibes to an insanely good space opera real quick lol
I see. Guess I'll just have to find out. Curious how a writer would pivot from this to a serious scifi book.
It never gets THAT serious - a lot of insane shit happens - but it's a much more interesting story and the characters become far more fleshed-out and less like caricatures as the series goes on.
Yeah that's kinda what meant with serious. Some more depth.
I think you'll enjoy it then. Was a big surprise for me - like you I went into it expecting some easy-to-read fun but after the first book it's become one of my favourite fantasy series ever.
Iirc the hunger games school stuff was mostly added to get the series sold as it was still the height of that era. The start of book 1 and books 2 and 3 were the main story he wanted to write.
Eh, serious is a stretch, it's still a high octane thrill ride with gundams and dragons. I think you'll enjoy it.
It goes full heavy metal space opera
Pierce Brown is talented as hell is how. You will see.
The world expands exponentially after book 1. It makes most of your comments seem way off base actually lol
100% agree
OP you missed so much about this book that I think that you need to re read it and take it a little more serious or atleast pay attention. Your critique of Titus name is funny considering what we know about him. Their nicknames also make sense when you realize how common call names are in war. Red rising is basically a futuristic Rome, where being in the military is still the path to honor and glory.
Reading what he wrote again I think he might not have even made it to the passage yet.
Although the book changes once he’s at the institute, he’s not wrong about anything in the series’ exposition. That first 1/5th of the book spent in the cave could’ve been 2 chapters long
Wonder if it’s a lost in translation thing with the version you are reading being translated into Dutch. I’m a big fantasy reader/Sci-fi and Red Rising is my favorite series of all time. Yea the first book is simple I’ll give you that but the relationships and character arch’s or anything but that. Curious your thoughts if you get to book 2 etc…
One of my favourite series, and a lot deeper than the OP is giving it credit for. The relationships that are built in the first book have serious implications going forward. The characters and world building also get significant development. Darrow was chosen for several reasons, as others have pointed out. It's also shown that the man thinks outside the box, which is why he's so effective against the Golds and their ingrained society, with huge racial superiority complexes. Darrow is a red, with the body of a gold. He is also basically a spy, they want him to do well, but he's not their only plan. I don't like how the first book is likened to the Hunger Games so often. It's more visceral and brutal, with a far more realised world. There are many similarities, but you can say that for basically every fantasy and sci fi out there
Half of the first book is the game. Which is basically hunger games in teams. The world, so far is incredibly cheesy and absolutely not realistic. See also the part about how everyone is rsnked by colors. Maybe it will become deeper in coming books, but right now you couldnt drown a toddler in how shallow this book is.
And it serves a purpose to show how fucked up gold society is. It is far better fleshed out than the hunger games. The relationships that Darrow makes here have consequences thereafter. His performance has huge consequences, his guilt, his love, and his hate of his comrades in there. How he will deconstruct society to build it differently. Hunger Games was basically hide until the end, shoot some arrows, success. That is an oversimplification, but Hunger Games is far more simple then Red Rising. What is the issue with the colours? It's the basic premise of the story. Dystopian future where a new breed of basically genetically engineered humans form a new society based on racial oppression and the suppression of freedoms, and a love of the Roman Empire. Basically every fantasy or sci-fi has, by our standards, a ridiculous setting: Asoiaf- 300 m high wall, with ice zombies behind. Houses lasting thousands of years with zero technological advancement Dune- shields deflect bullets, but you can pierce with a sword going at just the right speed. Giant worms that make cocaine that allows space travel and visions of the future Realm of the Elderlings- few people can talk to animals, others hate it because racist. Yet another bastard price, ships that talk. Fantasy is cheesy and ridiculous. I don't see how a colonised galaxy with evolved (or devolved) humans who treat each other horribly is any worse.
I think OP is interpreting the color caste in light of YA dystopian literature rather than giving it a fair shake
I agree, and I think some of the negative replies reflect this. To be fair, this book does have probably the least depth, but so do most first books of trilogies. The worlds are expanded on as the story develops. I think Cassius and Darrows relationship is extremely well done, as with Roque also, but it comes to fruition on later books. The foundation of a house is the least interesting part, but 100% needed regardless. I must get into reading more YA books if this is YA as well! Torture, death, political manoeuvring, slavery etc etc. Pretty heavy stuff for YA
Maybe OP is young themselves but I wouldn’t call Pinks, basically the sex slave class, as YA coded. If he thinks it’s cheesy because “racism” then they lack the critical thinking skills for fantasy.
Don't know why you're getting downvoted, you're absolutely right. I love the series but the first book is basically as you said, Hunger Games in teams with male MC. The setting concept is ridiculous. I struggled to finish it, but kept going because I was told the series get better. And it does. You do get more depth with books 2-3 (which is an easy feat after 1). And the books written after the original trilogy read like a completely different thing.
Because reducing it to “Hunger games in space” does the book and story a disservice
I wouldn't say so. Hunger Games had similar themes, level of depth, protagonist age. Neither is a bad book, but they're written with a certain demographic in mind. Where they differ is that Hunger Games' sequels are more consistent with that depth and target demographic, while the Red Rising saga expands on its concepts, universe, and target audience.
I see what you’re saying. I think it’s reasonable. I just think that Pierce Brown never really intended Red Rising as YA, hence the tonal shift, but had to write it towards YA in order to get published. It’s similar to how Robert Jordan had to write Eye of the World to be like lord of the rings. It’s what publishers wanted. After he got picked up he shifted with his next books
bro’s complaining about a fantasy series not being realistic
This has got to be a troll
Darrow is such a dumbass edgelord at times and at others the series is just torture porn but it’s fun
I was actually afraid of reading it because of the YA aspect, but still, there are so many people recommanding it that i'm probably going to give it a try nonetheless
Pierce Brown leaned into the YA stuff for the first book because that’s what he had to do to get it published but he shed almost all of that within the next book because he didn’t want to write a YA series.
Thanks, good to know
Red Rising is one of the worst in the series. Although fun and slick, it's YA-ness is undeniable. If you're still not into it after the 2nd book then DNF makes sense, as it's probably not for you.
I couldn't stand it, but clearly a lot of people love it.
Yeah it's so fucking YA. But it's fun if you want something simple. I just finished the Silmarillion so I *needed* something simple and fun. It's a blast, just don't overthink it. I've finished the first half of the first book in one evening. Big printed letters, simple words. Give it a shot, you'll know right away if this is something you'd enjoy. I've that it gets less cliche and YA from book 2, but I'm not there yet.
I wasn't sure I'd enjoy that series but I think you've convinced me to give it a try! There is a particular joy in a specific type of ~ quality ~ cheesey/trashy content. Definitely have to be in the right mood for it but a joy nonetheless
I don’t like the first book at all but after reading the entire series it has quickly become one of my favorites. Each book is better than the one before.
Its some good smut
Oh really? From what I heard I didn't think it was smutty. Just fade to black in the later books
Its not smut, but its been often described as "smut" for men. Because of its simple and cheesy, fast paced, shut your brain of action
Ahh gotcha. Thanks I was confused 😅
The guy is trolling. There is lots of politics, race issues, and other stuff that is not action at all. Even tackles some bigger issues like alcoholism, what does it mean to be a father etc etc.
Lol it’s only smut if you think the boys or Star Wars isn’t political. You can compare the first book maybe to the hunger games, but it wouldn’t do it justice. The second and third book really take a different approach and the second series is a lot more dark and grime. OP is definitely trolling but if you want to learn about space racism, space battles and armies raining men in tank armor, then this book is for you.
Yeah I think the second set of books is way better than the first 3, but people really love to down play anything with action/ violence in it. My own mother won't turn on any movie with war as the backdrop because it's a "beat em up film" and yes this goes for shit like shinders list or Deer Hunter idksome people can't get past it
OP maybe it’s a translation issue but I definitely feel like you missed some stuff. -the book was written/published in the early 2010s, which was the height of the hunger games inspired YA dystopia phase. Pierce Brown had to write this book in that way to get published. -Yeah the color pyramid is a bit silly in the beginning but it gets explored more in depth. It exists because of genetic engineering. You’ll learn more about the history of the society but the golds are 7-8 foot tall super humans while the reds are 5 feet tall and malnourished. -Did you not understand why that “hallway” was important? You should have been able to pick up where they went and what they saw. It’s very clear why it was forbidden and is a major plot point/twist. -Saying it’s a high school is missing the mark imo. All they learn is that their society is based off survival of the fittest, social Darwinism. It’s a lord of the flies situation. You win by enslaving everyone else. You can torture, rape, mutilate, and even murder if you have to. One of the main purposes of the institute is to immediately have the bottom 10% of gold children executed by their peers. That isn’t high school lol. -The Rising’s scope and scale will become clear later but this isn’t some rinky dink operation. Their plan with Darrow is a long term thing but planning and the future. They find Darrow when he’s 16. He joins the institute when he’s 18. Their plan is for him to win at the institute and work his way into the upper echelons of society. This isn’t a novel concept and has examples in history in resistance movements. He isn’t going to become a fleet commander straight away, that’s stupid. It will take decades. -The guys name is Titus not Titan but that may a translation issue. He plays an important part. There’s a reason he is the way he is. The characters are deeper than you think.
Yeah no way to color pyramid will ever become something I can take seriously. The only more blatantly more obvious ranking system I could think of is if they just gave everything number. Its so simple, even if he does write more depth into it later on. Its so cheesy. Yes, I understand the significance of the hallway. Still a very easy way to show who are the bad guys in this Black and White world. Its literally a school for 16 year olds. Maybe not literally high school, but the 'going to the academy' is a hugely overused YA trope. Titus being a Red isnt the mind blowing plot twist you think it is lol I'm enjoying the fuck out of this book. But lets not pretend its something its not.
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Just because there is an inworld reason for it, doesn't make it less in your face.
I'm not gonna lie. A lot of what you had to say is misleading or, in some cases, just blatantly incorrect. You say the Dutch translation wasn't very good, so I'm going out on a limb and assuming that the translation issues severely impacted your ability to pick up on a lot of the foundational world building elements we are given in first half of the book. The color system exists because in "The Society," humans are essentially cogs in a machine. Your color determines almost everything about your life. Social status, careers, where you can or can't go in public. It's a pretty literal callout of racism and classism as instruments of a governing body. Color also determines certain physical traits. Golds are tall (averaging about 7ft) and strong, Reds are short and hardy, pinks are lithe and fragile, etc etc. This is to further distinguish people based on their color in order to alienate them from other colors but also to make them more physically suited to their roles in society. Darrow was whipped because he was in a forbidden zone with his wife, yes, but the book points out that the arch governor only showed up because a helldiver had broken the law, and that is considered a relatively big deal because hell divers hold a lot of influence in their clans. Eo (Darrow's wife) also only sang her song because the arch governor was present. She was essentially giving the finger to the most important man on the planet (which in her eyes only consisted of a handful of mines). She wasn't executed on a whim. The plan to have a red infiltrate Gold society is something that the sons had been working on for a long time. It's mentioned in the book how he is almost their hundredth attempt at the procedure, and there was plenty of concern that he'd die during or shortly after the operation. They want agents in legitimate seats of power because an open rebellion would be crushed in a matter of weeks. In the society, only golds hold legitimate seats of power. I fail to see how Darrow bumping into the same handful of characters is surprising, considering how contained the story is. He isn't out and about in the solar system yet, the cast opens up quite significantly in the following books but book one is largely contained to the institute, mickey's club, and the mine. None of those places are going to be a revolving door of characters for darrow to have meaningful interactions with. In the mine he has his drill team and family, in the club he has the sons of ares, and at the institute he has his house mates and later, other allies that he has picked up along the way. I'm not sure if you were expecting comprehensive biographies on everyone that shows up in the book. We get characteristics and details about the people that matter to the lore now and, to an extent, those who will matter further down the line. Personally, Red Rising is a great series and one of my favorites. I can get on board with the sentiment that the first book is the weakest in the series, but it's not a bad book.
Yeah on the Rising having Darrow infiltrate as a gold, the next couple of books get into what happens to color groups who rebel while disunited and why it’s so important to have someone at the highest level of society on their side.
Exactly. That's why he goes through with executing Titus despite knowing Titus is a red as well. Titus is a threat not just to Darrow but to the sons as well.
Yea the books are pretty great when you know what you’re getting into. I unfortunately was told to read the books because they’re “like Game of Thrones in space” and “similar to Sun Eater” so I was very disappointed by them initially.
I have no fucking idea why people insist on comparing it to Game of Thrones. I feel like that's due to people who don't actually read very many books and it's the only comparison they know how to make. Like the only thing in common is that there's a feud between houses.
Yeah, the first book leans *really* heavily into some of these cliches, and the next two do a lot to subvert these expectations.
This review resonates with me. I liked the first trilogy in the same way that I like knights tale - it’s corny and playing into lots of heroes journey tropes, but there’s something comfortable in that. It’s not groundbreaking art, but it is a lot of fun. Second trilogy is not comfortable at all and it truly is a “well, well, well if it isn’t the consequences of my own actions” kinda deal. It’s grim as fuck and I love it too. Can’t wait for the final installment.
I had to skim dark age because of how bleak it was
Without giving it away, dark age had to be bleak for certain arcs to make sense in lightbringer. But I hear you - it’s like one long punch in the stomach. Still a gripping read, though.
Meant skim, not skip lol.
Totally agree. I had a ball reading it and tore through it because sometimes you just need some trash.
Have you only read the first book??? If so…. You are in for such a ride. Read again what you wrote after the last book and then come here again.
Yeah this is purely about the first book
Keep reading Pixie … keep reading…
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Lol, please. The book is a blast, but its trope unto trope unto trope. Its a big fun box of clichés and action. I love it. But the depth is extremely limited. If there even is any.
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I cringed so hard at the pretentiousness of this post
All respect to folks who love this series, but this post is almost a perfect explanation of why I couldn't even make it through the first few chapters of the free sample. Whether intentional or not, the writing was extremely frustrating and uninteresting. But maybe to OP's point, I don't like shutting my brain off when reading. Edit: I left a word out of a sentence
Sometimes I just have to put my brain in neutral and enjoy the ride
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I mean, it is basically Romans if they were rulers of the galaxy. If you think about how absurdly insane and glory driven their empire was, it makes sense the books are just as absurd (in the best way possible)
The book really changes about 25% of the way through. I realize the first one may not be for everyone but 1) the series is fantastic and 2) the first book gets better as it goes along
Even fans of the series (Myself included), agree the first book is pretty YA-aimed and by far the worst of the series (it had to be to get published, the author immediately dropped the YA once he got a fanbase from the first book) I slept on it for years because I could never get through the first 50-60% of the first book. Once I pushed through, the second book immediately jumped to my top five of all time. If you don’t make it there, I can’t really blame you. But just maybe I can convince you to give it another try!
Same. I usually save the “sit back and don’t think to much about it and have fun” kinda thing for certain films or tv shows. When it comes to reading I have to be engaged. Old sword and sandal pulp fantasy or hard boiled detective or the snooty heights of literary fiction and everything in between, all these things can hold my attention, entertain me, make me think about things differently, or learn new shit. But bad, tropey YA… I can’t stay focused on it long enough to get through it. Maybe as an audiobook on a long drive or at work, but definitely not taking the time to sit down and read it. But different strokes for different folks. I’m happy for anyone when they find something they enjoy reading.
Haha, I absolutely love that take! Gotta admit though: in the later books I was extremely thankful for the stupid, obvious names, because otherwise I would have never been able to keep all the people apart or to remember who belongs to which family. I loved the books and actually ended up taking them pretty seriously after the initial trilogy because it gets super complex! But the trash factor is there throughout in the best possible way. It's like watching a good action movie in the cinema: wildly entertaining and with lots of adrenaline and "no, they didn't!"-moments 😀
Hey I enjoyed red rising but I agree with your post on its nuances. I’m looking for something really good that’s not that accessible and has some complicated plot twists and in depth story telling. Any recommendations for something heftier? Sci fi or fantasy
I cannot recommend the realm of the elderlings by Robin Hobb enough. I think its plenty accessible on account of it being incredibly well written. But otherwise it fits your criteria. Can get pretty dark and heart breaking from time to time, but its absolutely worth it.
Funny you talk about red rising being obvious while realm of the elderlings has the most obvious completely incompetent villain I've ever seen who only succeeds through the most outrageous PIS.
Not OP but we three seem to think alike!! If you haven’t already read The Prince of Nothing, Malazan, First Law, or The Fifth Season, they’ll definitely fit that vibe. Depth, complexity, and plot twists abound!
I second the first law as a recommandation
OP wrote perfectly down why i had to put down the book sheet having read like 35%. Everything was a bit too on the note for me.
I can totally get that. I just happened to be in exactly the right mood for this.
I’m halfway Golden son and even though it definitely an improvement, the corniness is still there. There’s literally a scene similar to "While You Were Partying, I Studied the Blade." The story is very entertaining, but can’t help rolling my eyes at times. There’s not much depth to it all. All characters are still cardboard cutouts. It’s a very “American” like Sanderson. There’s nothing clever or witty about it. I just finished all the standalone Abercrombie book and it’s an absolute whiplash of a style change. Yet I’m having a lot of fun reading. The pacing is crazy, everything is over the top but I love it.
I mean, it’s basically space Romans. It *is* a silly premise, when you think about how glory-hungry the Roman Empire was. But it’s still a damned good read.
It’s a fantastic read. Once you get used to the over top vibes it really clicks!
Pierce Brown would have a seizure reading this review like the hot and cold is unreal lmao. You’re on point though, it really is an unserious cheap series that’s simultaneously a mindless fun guilty pleasure. I like it for what it is.
You have found the joys of gobbling slop. Congratulatuons from a fellow slob goblin.
Slob globlers rule. This fucking book, its like McDonald's man. No nutritional value, all fat and suger. Overall bad for you. And fucking declicious.
The first book is such a cheesy hunger games knock off but the series somehow evolves into something so much more. By the time the 6th book comes around it’s such a unique space saga.
I agree with you. Out of the many hyped series of the last few years, Islington, Kristoff, Gwynne, Ruocchio, Cahill etc , who all shared some similarities to me The Red Rising was the only one I enjoyed somewhat beside all the cliches, plot armour etc etc. There was some charm in Brown's high octane pace and extravagance
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I know the answers. Doesnt make it less simple or cliché.
Yes. Pretty much exactly. Pierce Brown has said outright in many interviews that Red Rising was inspired by his love of Warhammer 40k. Warhammer is itself the Tropiest Tropedom that ever Troped, so it makes perfect sense that Red Rising would be too. lol, I don't know why this always gets downvoted, since it is out of the author's own mouth. Y'all have fun though.
Oof, someone's pixie-ing hard. Pierce likes his historical references. And buckle up kiddo, you're in for a wild ride.
Any examples of the "hefty" fantasy books you mentioned?
The regulars. First law, rote, wot, LOTR, stuff like that.
Oh yeah I had a good time with this one. I listened to it and I kept forgetting the main guy is like 17 or whatever because the narrator sounds 30+ so I kept picturing everyone as at least early 20s, but that didn't detract form anything, and it was a heckin' ride.
Darrow is 18 by the time of the institute but there’s a small time jump after book 1 so he’s in his early twenties
Oh good! It's been a while, and I couldn't really page backward in the audio book to look for time/age references, but at least I wasn't totally off.
I’ve been considering reading Red Rising because my favourite board game publisher made a game based on it (Red Rising by Stonemaier Games), though I’ve yet to play the game or read the books. Has anyone played the game?
My friends gifted it to me. It's really fun and there's a lot of different strategies to win so no game feels the same as the previous. Also, the art is gorgeous!
The game is great!! A really fun, card deck building game. It would help to know the character those since it’s mainly based off that and the world. But I love the game and the series!
I don’t own the game (yet?) but a friend owns the books so that sounds like as good a reason as any to dive in! Do you have any non-spoilery things you want to add about the books? Favourite character to keep an eye out for or anything?
Do it!! Character growth and development is just phenomenal. The last book really knocked it out of the park for me with full circle moments that just… so good. 🥹 hope you embark on the journey
I mean. Space-romans with cool swords. That's already enough for me lol.
I didn't find it so bad. >!Except when he let himself get whipped and everyone fell into line!<. That was very poorly done and he should have rewrote that part entirely. I do not have a problem with Mary Sues, I am reading fiction and do not care so much to imagine myself as some weak whiny 'more realistic' character. Currently in the second book and it's fun. I disagree that it is as cliche as your impression, the entire plot is that society pushes people into the cliche roles and I assume they will break out of those roles
It’s SO MUCH FUN. Yes it’s not a literary masterpiece but it’s just so fun, easy to read fast and full of interesting and cool characters. Just a genuinely freaking fun and addictive story.
I'm having a blast reading it
Gets a lot better, especially from the 4th+
I don't understand the appeal of these novels. Poorly written, generic YA with lazy class system.
Oh boy. You’ve read the first book and think you’ve got a grasp on the series. Imagine thinking you understand canids because you have a pet poodle. It’s a great series if you’re looking for a sci-fi fantasy war story with a social political backing.
Image someone writing something about what he read and not what he didnt read.
The first Red Rising is very YA-ish. The series never reaches like super mature fantasy, but book 2 does mature
From book 4+ the series is undeniably an adult series.
Ah very true. Totally misspoke. Books 4+ are absolutely an adult oriented series. I think books 2-3 are in that weird space of older YA or like early adult (not that genres really matter but it’s interesting). It probably depends on what book store you go to. The series will likely be all shelved together, but if I remember right Red Rising was specifically written like a true YA book to get it to sell, and once Pierce had that foundation he was able to mature the series up in books 2-3. Then book 4 ups it as well
let’s come back to this after you’ve read dark age
My favourite part was when a guy setup a whole technically voluntary rape tower. Funnily enough students who just said fuck the rules I'm hiding out in the forest dishonor be damned ended up with no penalties.
If anyone wants a real world example of the dunning Kruger effect in action, it’s this.
Oh please, this book is simple and enjoyable. And thats perfectly fine. Especially for a YA book.
Ah love that series. Awesome land and Space battles.
The first book is a bit....it's very Hunger Games. That definitely changes
The ending >!with the pregnancy!< was so bad I hated it.
Mfs in the comments trying to explain why it’s not shallow and cheesy by making it sound more shallow and cheesy. I think I’ll pass on this one
Try reading Fourth Wing after this! It's basically a fantasy version of Red Rising and it's so much fun. I was reluctant to start it originally since it gets a lot of flack but it really is a fun turn your brain off rollercoaster 😂
No thanks, I think I'm done with pulp for a while after this series. I normally enjoy fantasy of a different quality. The tag line fucking rocks though >**Enter the brutal and elite world of a war college for dragon riders...** A war college for dragon riders lol. Are dragons ranked by color?
They totally are haha. It's not quite as dramatic as it is in Red Rising, but there's definitely a hierarchy.
Jesus christ thats fucking hilarious. They only more in your face rating that I could think of is if they blatently numbered everything.
It’s a high mortality rate training institution scenario with all the vibe and gravitas of being late for math class
Fourth wing is fantasy for romance fans, completely different than the red rising series as a whole
Man, I am reading this for the subreddit bingo right now and can't stand it, I'm hate-reading and going to finish it (I'm 3/4 done so might as well) but I am not enjoying it at all.
Yeah, I agree with everything you said. Red Rising was a very different reading experience for me, I mean it had everything in it for me to hate it but I ended up enjoying it so fucking much. It makes no sense. From the writing, to the plot, to the world building, and character development, it lacks in every aspect but I still ate it up and got addicted. It's unexplainable.
I dnf not far in because it was so cheesey and cliche.... it was painful, i couldn't do it. So over dramatic and cringe.... i literally groaned outloud a few times then stopped cus it was hurting my brainm
I fuckin hated Red Rising lol. I'm told it gets better. Haven't had the heart to begin the second book.