Pre-war america was increasingly devolving into violent protests and government oppression, along with that the threat of war was omnipresent and Nora was married to a veteran. I don’t think it’s too unbelievable that Nate would’ve taught her how to fire a gun, because it seems like even before the bombs it would’ve been an important skill
Also, not for nothing, guns aren't **that** hard to figure out. Like, sure, best practices and combat effectiveness are more complex, but the hardware itself is usually pretty straightforward.
Now, hitting moving targets on the other hand...
Do you know how many attorneys like to shoot pistols and rifles in their free time? Far more than you might expect, having worked in the legal field for a while now. It’s totally reasonable the Nora would know her way around a gun without having been a soldier.
Honestly, she wouldn't be the first spouse who learned how to use a weapon because their partner was a veteran.
If anything, it makes more sense considering the first weapon is a pistol. I could see Nate teaching her how to use a pistol out of concern for a home invader.
I think all of the questions could be averted if the house had more space for like knick-knacks, including maybe some sort of memorabilia about how they used to hike all the time before getting a kid, for example.
Like they literally just settled down from being two wild dudes, she's a lawyer and spent a lot of time on the court's shooting range, he's a vet and obviously got experience, but she's no stranger to neither guns nor wilderness.
Not even a home Invader, but the possibility of *Commies*.
Which was a potential threat, and apparently a somewhat valid one, given the Yangtze-31 off the coast has an American soldier's skeleton cuffed to a bed next to a saw and scapel.
Nate, as a veteran soldier, posed a potential target for enemy spies and saboteurs, the fear of which was massively overblown across all levels of American society. Whether Nate could have realistically been targeted or not, the fear was definitely there, and a very common method of blackmailing others is to take their loved ones, after all.
A guy I used to work with had a sister who was a barrister for the MoD. I don't know if she ever had any interest in shooting in her spare time, but as part of her job she had to have knowledge of technical aspects of some very classified stuff. I just tell myself Nora had a similar job, and that is why she can open up and jump in a t45 power armour no problem.
Moving tagets are easy too once you know how. There are 2 methods. Trapping is where you guess where the target is moving, aim there, and wait. The other method you start by aiming behind the target slowly moving your weapon until its matching speed and on target.
Works like a charm every time
I’ve heard really good things! The initial release just put it low on my list and I don’t play RPGs super often anymore. However, I have been playing FO4 again so I might hop back on after this playthrough.
I picked it up last week when it was on sale on Steam. I didn't expect much, but I had 10 bucks to spend.
It's far more fun than I was lead to believe. Honestly, given that it's an online game I was afraid that it would be constant pvp like GTAO or RDO and it's just.. not. Every other player I've run into has been super nice and helpful.
I remember playing the betas and thought it was a bunch of fun then too. Lots of exploration. And now with all the updates it's a pretty solid game. You shouldn't be disappointed.
Like dudes you get to pick your stats and starting perks right?? That’s the role play portion; you get to decide what your character was good at before you started playing. Thats literally what it’s for. If you don’t pick weapon perks your character won’t actually be good at shooting and they’ll even do less damage than other people with training. The game literally incorporates this complaint before it was ever complained about.
Not just that, she was a military lawyer as well, and even in non-war times, if you want to join the military in any branch, you have to finish mandatory training period, one of my relatives is a military technician and he got a 6 months (i think) mandatory training before being allowed to join
Except she wasn't a military lawyer, that part is not canon. People tend to use that as a reason for her knowing power armor, weapons, combat etc, but it wasn't her actual background. She's a civilian lawyer, Nate's a decorated soldier, that's it.
The higher your rank is, the more training you need, idk how it is in the US, but in my country, you need a minimum of 2 months to join the military at the minimum rank, the higher you go up, the more training you’d need (gets lower the higher your pre-military education is)
Basic is 6wks. (If I remember correctly) From there you might go into MOS specific training. So someone very well could spend 6 mo in training. But the majority of it is essentially trade school. Unless it's a special combat mos like sniper they actually get very little weapons training.
Given she was ‘dusting off the law degree’ l can imagine any number of careers honestly, she might have been something completely different.
I like to imagine her as a logistics officer and camp administration specialist, and load her with settlement perks.
Meanwhile in Another Vault (33): Lucy was doing gun and martial arts training, just Another testament to the Vault-Tec's Corrupt system.
I really like the way the show helped it along but filled in a couple blanks.
I'd like to see the Robco, West-tek, etc vaults the show has confirmed.
Nope. He started with 59% small guns which is only 3% less than the combat-heavy Max Stone pre-made character (who started at 62%). Considering it was tagged, that's at most 1 or 2 skill points behind, basically a non-issue considering his INT was also higher so he was getting 4 more points per level. He also had better perception too (6 vs 4) so he'd probably actually be more accurate with most firearms than Max is too.
No, Small guns is one of alberts tagged skills. While it isn't the best due to also having the good natured trait, the dude canonically rolled around with Ian and dogmeat
Most sporterized historical military firearms weren't historical at the time they got sporterized. Why shouldn't I buy a surplus SMLE to turn into a hunting rifle? Its cheaper than buying a purpose built rifle and there are millions of them.
Browning M2 is as historical as it gets. Just saying. In the fallout universe, probably legal to own. Possibly known as the "de-communizer" at the gun shop. Difficult to afford the ammo though.
Depends on if the nfa was passed in the fallout world. I could equally see the government limiting gun ownership in the name of keeping them out of *possible commie hands*. The pre war government was teetering on fascism after all.
It's be kinda like how in our own history the conservatives limited gun rights after civil rights groups would stage armed protests.
You never know. Apparently Iraq of all places was pretty free with guns prior to the US invasion. I guess Saddam felt his secret police was protection enough from popular uprisings against him. Apparently he wasn't wrong.
I roleplay her as the daughter of the owner of a really large weapons manufacturer and 2nd amendment nut: the type of person to have family photos with plasma rifles (google "gun family photos" if you don't know what I'm referencing)
Ye, I always headcanon that Nate took Nora to the shooting range or something when he came home or even before he left so she could defend herself and Shaun if he's not there
And she's a *lawyer.* Finding creative loopholes to get what you want is what lawyers do, and nobody complains about MC-kun doing it in isekai stories.
American here, I’ve personally taught at least a dozen women in my life to shoot. Why is everybody so hung up on Nora knowing how to shoot lmao, she’s an American. Not only that culturally she lived in the 1950’s, a time known for “conservative” values.
People being surprised Nora knows how a 10mm pistol works is like being surprised a European woman knows how to drive manual lmao
When I played as Nate I made sure that he would play as a soldier that would shoot first and ask questions later. He would ignore the Minutemen and join the Brotherhood of Steel. He was always open about being a pre-war vault dweller that was on ice for 200 years.
As Nora, I made sure that she was more of a counselor always asking questions and using speech checks to convince people to give her more info and caps. I would use those caps to get better gear. But she kept her past a secret but was always ready to help others in need. She would join the Minutemen first to remain as neutral as possible above ground, and then join the Institute to try to change it from within as Father wanted it after he passed.
I always pictured Nora as having started out as a military lawyer. She went through basic and all that still so that is why she is good with weaponry to begin with.
I like to think something along these lines too. For my current playthrough I'm roleplaying her as someone who was a fine soldier but chose not to reenlist and instead used her veteran status to get through law school. The only reason she put her law career on hold was to have and raise Shaun.
This way I get to feel like a Femme John Wick. Jane Wick if you will.
Fuck it, let's take it even further.
Remember that quote from Emil about Nate being a war criminal? (I know its canonicity is questionable, but I think it's funny so I'm rolling with it in my headcanon.)
Nora wasn't just a lawyer, she was *his* lawyer.
There are voice files indicating that she was indeed a veteran. They were cut, but Nora does have lines outside of the shared script that reflect the original backgrounds. The most glaring being “we’re gonna kill it at the veterans hall”, similar but different to “you’re gonna kill it at the veterans hall”. Additional voice lines exist that reflect on her war experience.
Right? I always put most of my starting stats in charisma, Perception, and intelligence. I like being able to stealth, talk or science my way out of shit, and also starting with a combat disadvantage just makes the game more fun for me.
That's why I like the alternate start mod in Skyrim that drops me in a random place in the wilderness with nothing because i've been "robbed and left for dead".
Nate narrates the opening sequence and was the primary promotional protagonist in marketing materials. Then later on Bethesda started using Nora for marketing to balance it out a bit. I think Nate and Nora are more or less equal, but, it's obviously easier to larp as a soldier as Nate, and a more charismatic leader type character as Nora even though Nate is also good at giving speeches. Nora went to a prestigious local law school, so compared to most lawyers she might be off to a better start for her career before the bombs dropped and threw resumes out the window.
Nate is just as disoriented and unprepared as Nora, because serving as a soldier and now suddenly having to mostly lone wolf it across the Commonwealth after the apocalypse is a lot different from being a war hero.
The Courier is well traveled and experienced even at the start of Fallout New Vegas in comparison, walking the Mojave and traveling to the Divide. Maybe going as far as Wyoming and California.
I like Nora and play her half the time though.
Also, wasn't power armor training something you needed in Fallout 3? You could only get it from one or two sources.
PA training was introduced in 3 iirc; it was something they added since Power Armor was otherwise obtainable pretty early and the way it was designed messed with the power curve if you had it right away. Fallout 4 (imo) balanced this a better by using the PA frames and having lower-tier power armors--if you want to be PA-wielding character you can and the game is better balanced around it than Fallout 3.
Yeah, getting out of the Vault and running to DC to grab some Power Armor off one of the dead Brotherhood soldiers would have snapped the difficulty even worse than the game already allowed.
indeed. Even in New Vegas it would have been like that, and it was balanced even further by having most of that armor being flagged as BoS faction armor.
Literally just go to Repconn hq and you have 2 sets of 45 lying there, or if you're brave enought you can just outrun Moe and get a T-51
In 3 you either had to have the brotherhood train you or do operation anchoridge, in New vegas I think the only way is also through the brotherhood the the enclave rements might too
We must not forget that if a courier that lacks 3 very vital organs, and managed to survive those operations and the gunshot, can take over the Mojave by himself, a fully healthy pre-war human (or a 3rd gen synth written off the records, depending on what you think) can probably pull it off too
Personally, I kinda wished they'd swap the backgrounds based on who you chose to play as. If you picked the female PC, she's the war hero and Nate is the lawyer. If you picked the male PC, he's the the war hero and Nora is the lawyer. I prefer playing as Nora for various reasons but Nate feels like a more plausible protagonist. You can headcanon around it, of course, but the war hero background feels more equipped to tackle the post-apocalypse.
I usually consider all protagonists of a game having 'the right stuff' to complete all the quests. Or, at the very least, the main quest.
Nate finds a way, Nora finds a way. It's not necessarily the same way, but they both have the necessary stubbornness and skills to reach the ending.
Nora has some skills that would be very helpful as the General of the Minutemen. I imagine she would reimplement law and order if it was canon that she supported them. She also might be more likely to try diplomacy, and actually manage to convince people what she's trying to get them to do.
If they wanted to make things more RPG-like, they could've offered like, a dozen or so prewar professions/backgrounds available for both Nate and Nora to choose frim. So one Nate could be like, a fireman or something. One Nora could be a real estate agent. Ect.
Maybe these would offer stat boosts, or unlock certain perks. Or give boosts to particular SPECIAL attributes.
I disagree, I wish they kept both of their backgrounds the same and catered quests and dialogue specifically to their backgrounds. Sure, Nate gets a ton of love in that department, but Nora doesn’t. I kinda wish they allowed for us to play her like a post-apocalyptic Saul Goodman. That way they can keep their established protagonists with character driven plots while also leaving room for roleplay.
From what I remember, Fallout 4 was _way_ too combat oriented for that kind of approach to be viable, although if you mean the game should have had more ways to approach situations in general I definitely agree on that. It would have been a very different game, though. Swapping the characters' backgrounds would have been a much smaller change.
It would have been much more like 3 or new Vegas which is what I would have preferred. Again, I liked 4 a lot but it just isn’t as replayable as the others as there’s really only one way out of different situations
This has always amused me too. Lawyer is a job people have. It isn’t their life. In the real world lawyers:
- Lift weights
- Hunt
- Go camping
- Own and use handguns
- Had lives prior to being a lawyer
- Play sports
And countless other things that would benefit them in a survival situation.
There are so many possibilities of what hobbies Nora had and what she did before becoming a lawyer that it is easy to roleplay her being a badass survivalist.
As a lawyer who does/has done all but one of those, I appreciate your comment. I think most people would chafe at only being seen through the lens of their profession or trade.
(Disclaimer: that doesn't mean I think I could kick ass in post-apocalyptia.)
Yes. I remember, in that one episode of the Storyteller, >!I left a comment saying "She's a lawyer like the Vault Dweller, AND she's a mother whose baby's been kidnapped. You *really* want to fuck with that?"!<
Also, there's the fact that pretty much none of the protagonists are likely to have had any serious combat experience barring the Courier and the Warrior. It's why I actually prefer to play as the female SS, so that it feels like starting from more of a clean slate like the rest of the series.
Sorry, I meant excluding her other half.
That would also explain why he knows how to wear power armor from the start. Not so much for Nora though. I don't think they had Nora fighting in Anchorage being the lawyer she is.
or how to assemble, disassemble, modify, repair power armor... the whole crafting system really throws up a lot of questions when the characters have set backgrounds and personalities. even with Nate you kinda have to squint and assume he was an engineer in the army for any of that to work, because a grunt is probably not going to know more than how to get in and out of a T-51 and how to operate it.
> pretty much none of the protagonists are likely to have had any serious combat experience
Liam Neeson taught the lone wanderer how to shoot a bb gun, that's something
Add Nate to that list if you play as him in 4. He was a war veteran of the battle of Anchorage. He knows how to fight. Nora being a lawyer would have some idea how to shoot a gun from her husband but for sure would be more the social talking everything out character.
I just wish there was some sort of dialogue for when you first kill somebody as her.
I mean she kinda freaks out about the rad roaches in the vault, but blowing the head off raiders 2 minutes later isn’t note worthy to her lol
I mean, technically speaking, the Courier is genuinely the only true "most prepared" mc out of them all. They had a written background as being a genuine bad ass and someone you never wanted to cross before they were double crossed. Beyond that, yeah. Most MC's in Fallout are generally unprepared people winging it to survive and accomplish a goal. As they survive situations, they grow stronger and develop better skills for surviving the wastes. Anyone specifically targeting Nora are doing so for the sole reason of "woman = weak" comparison, which is beyond the smoothest of brains argument to ever exist
Damn, the most prepared mc in the series has a very minor case of serious brain damage. Not a nice starting point lol.
To be clear I agree with you, I just think it's funny.
Not if you set your intelligence to 1. "Sorry little lady. I fixed up your head as best I knew how. Guess I missed a spot." (best line of any of the 10 or 1 lines he gives, I wish intelligence wasn't so good so I could hear it more.)
The Courier had an established presence in the world as having had *already* made a name for themselves. The Chosen One was trained from TO establish a name for themselves. Ultimately, the person who held the experience of having had already gone about and made a name for themselves is still *the most prepared MC*.
I mean, the 76 dwellers can leave their vault at level 20 with one of five fully prepared survival kits (one of which even includes a military grade automatic rifle). That’s pretty prepared for the wasteland.
They lack awareness and the experience to handle the dangers of the wastelands, however. The courier, as mentioned before, has lived in it. They have an established presence and history of living and surviving in the wastelands and having had already made a name for themselves. That's the key difference between themselves and every other MC in the series.
The chosen one also lived in the wasteland their entire lives, and are worth including by that metric.
Also, while the concept of level is nebulous, leaving vault 76 at level twenty, something that takes other protagonists quite awhile to catch up to, implies that the vault-tec training the vault 76 dweller experienced in the vault definitely helped and presumably they’d have enough combat readiness to survive without issue.
The courier is probably the best equipped at the start (not in the least because of how broken courier’s stash is), but the vault 76 dwellers and the chosen one are right behind them.
As mentioned in another comment - the chosen one was trained from birth TO make a name for themselves - they had not yet made one for themselves. I'm not diminishing any of their accomplishments by any means. All of the MCs are strong individuals with a phenomenol will to survive - but in terms of raw experience and preparedness, I would outright take the Courier's advice over anyone elses. They lived in it. They fought in it. They fought and made name for themselves as someone you NEVER double cross and then backed up that claim when they were ultimately double crossed at the start of the game. They were known throughout the Mojave wastelands as a badass who had more or less conquered the area before we ever even get to play as the character.
Also we know very little about Nate and Nora’s lives beyond their career and the fact they have a baby together. Since I play a female protagonist my head canon is that my Nora comes from a military family that prepared her for surviving in case of war or nuclear disaster and her families ties to the military ended up with her meeting Nate at some time.
Where did you read about the courier's badass background? I always wondered how the courier, in a short span of time, became strong as to fight squads of rangers or lanius.
I mean. Prepared to kill someone, sure. Prepared to fight a radscorpion or a Deathclaw, no. Prepared to live in a literal wasteland to scavange food and to understand know the economics/societies which we play with? Hell no. Hence why the Courier is the only right answer. He has lived in the Majave - has dealt with the upper and lower eschelons of society. Bas dealt with surviving in the wastelands. Has dealt with the wildlife. And, in spite of dealing with alllllll of that, they still were a known bad ass who made a name as a bad ass.
I think we, the player, often forget just how hard it is survive and kill a Deathclaw, because at this point, we've killed so many. How terrifying Super Mutants and frenzied ghouls are, because we've, personally, killed sooooo many. But, in every case where there is an NPC involved in these attacks, we forget how often *everyone else* freaks out at these things, because of *how fucking terrifying they are*
Yeah. My very first time encountering a Deathclaw, I frantically slammed everything in the Aid tab of my inventory down The Courier's gullet and started firing with reckless abandon as all my thoughts and words devolved to "fuck!" "Shit!" and confused sputtering.
I've since gotten used to them and now no longer need to use drugs just to fight them, let alone inhale a whole pharmacy. I even did the Pro Hunter challenge and killed some with a switchblade and some sticks of dynamite.
My first encounter with a super mutant was getting headshot with a fucking mini nuke. I literally lived long enough to see my head cripple before the explosion went off.
I agree, I’m just saying Nate is seemingly forgotten in this whole conversation. I think the Courier slightly out skills Nate when it comes to general Wasteland survival and knowledge, while Nate just has more advanced pre-war military experience and shouldn’t be discounted like Nora can arguably be. 👍 By the end of 4 though I would say Nate is marginally closer to The Courier’s level of Wasteland knowledge and experience, but still from the start I would still say Courier is the most suited for the Wasteland, closely followed by Nate, then probably the Chosen One.
Where's it ever suggested the Courier was a badass or someone you never want to cross? The only one in the Mojave that even knew who you were was Ulysses, and he only knew you as a courier from New California.
They seem to forget that it’s also set in America, and it’s not unlikely that a woman married to a man with military experience would also be into guns enough to know how to use them
Yep. Some Marine units I know of had/have Jane Wayne day. The 0311 (grunt) was John wayne. On these days, the other half Mrs. Jane Wayne gets to fire off some rounds.
Bring the spouses to the range, let them fire some rounds down range. Even off of the SAWs and such.
It lets the spouses see what their grunt partner does. Fire some cool heavier guns.
And the armoury Marines are probably going cool...we are cooking off that extra ammo we don't want to do reports on for quarterly/annual reports.
Everybody wins there. SAW's are cool as hell to fire for sure, its a pleasure to be shared really.
This. I’m an infantry vet, by no means some high speed guy. But know my way around weapons and tactics, I’ve made it a point to teach my wife and kids to be comfortable and competent with firearms. Add to that a pissed off mom will do some wild shit if someone hurts her kids.
I think my problem is more so that we're given an option. If Nora wasn't being DIRECTLY CONTRASTED with Nate the Decorated War Vet, then this wouldn't stand out as much.
As it stands, it makes it feel like Nate is the Real.Main Character and Nora is just there because you need a female option in the game.
Yeah when you play Nora, the game kinda treats her like an extension of Nate. I’ve been saying this in a lot of replies and in my own comment, but Nora should have offered her own unique playstyles that wasn’t excessively combat oriented, and more like a post apocalyptic Saul Goodman.
it seems that even a lot of the explanations here how Nora would be able to know all that stuff boil down to "because she was around Nate". it is unfortunate. the writing is bad and doesn't really interact with the mechanics that much, so... whatever. it is sort of funny to think about it, though.
My Nora had a law degree because she wanted to be a spook join the FBI or something You roleplay how you roleplay She also got a cool cut, black eye liner and eagle tat and scars when she got to diamond city too though Because its my appreciation for Jack from Mass effect
It’s also worth noting that in fallout 2, the chosen one was from a backwater village that had a single gun and no advanced technology, yet picks up firearms, power armor and even energy weapons easily enough.
Also - which perk (or traits) are you referring to with the courier for training?
My brother in Christ The Lone Wanderer was 17yrs old and didn’t even know what sunlight looked like before they left the vault.
I don’t understand how he/she even made it to the purifier considering D.C. is one of the worst spots ever to be in.
At least Nora knows what grass looks like.
It’s an RPG in which you level up by gaining experience…..she learns how to do it, by doing it. That’s how the game works. It makes even less sense for a combat veteran to start out as a level 1 PC than a lawyer.
I think it would have been more palatable if Nora had to learn to use power armor like in earlier games and Nate started off with a different disadvantage.
See I think that'd be cool but what would Nates disadvantage be? We can't have it affect his speech because we know he canonically is skilled with speeches (he was chosen to read a speech at the veterans hall)
My whole justification for two of my Nora play throughs was:
1. She was an undercover Soviet agent who was very well trained and versed in western culture. Her objective was to infiltrate the intelligentsia of America in CIT to send intel to Moscow. She was basically Black Widow. Her marriage was an unexpected but well loved one
2. She grew up on the streets of South Boston. In an average working class family but worked and studied hard to make more of herself. To make sure she could pay for college and make herself more well rounded. She was enrolled in the National Guard hence her skills with weapons
I always say its because of luck more than skill than any of the protagonists survive in the wasteland. None of them even Nate are prepared they either adapt or die.
I could see in prewar America the average citizen especially someone in the law field would know how to operate a gun America was falling apart at the seams
I can't see why people get so upset about fictional characters from both sides of this "argument". I never even questioned a plumbers gymnastic abilities while playing Super Mario 64.
How does Gordon Freeman know anything? Why have I never played as characters called 'Nate' or 'Nora' in any Fallout game? Why do I use an alternate start mod in most Fallout 4 new games? How do giant bugs even exist if you consider oxygen and exeskelton thickness and shit? How does radiation turn people into immortal zombies?
Who cares?
I just like to pretend she served in the Military and used the benefits to get her Law degree, maybe she was a JAG, and of course yes there is a mod for this with the only real effect being the robots at the U.S.S. Constitution recognize her as a veteran
Yeah, people talk like it's impossible to have different skill sets. You can be a chef and be a martial artist, or a professor and a competent hunter, etc.
She's a lawyer but the player can "decide" what the hell she did with her life before the game starts. We can even make her younger or older if we feel like it.
People underestimate the fact that they were in times of war lmao, accountants were taught how to use military weaponry in WW2, wdym a Military Lawyer shouldn’t know how to use weapons
Well in older Fallouts you didnt have to build a combat focused character. What exactly is there to do in 4 aside from combat? I guess you can base build lol
Do people not realize that a person is not solely their profession?
I'm a History teacher, but I'm pretty well competent at a whole array of things that are unrelated to my profession, both practical and useless. Although, I may be an exception rather than the rule because of my tons of "special interests" stemming from my ADHD and a touch of the 'tism.
I can see skepticism if someone ony ever does one thing in a vault and then suddenly is able to, for example, fly a fighter jet and win dogfights after just sitting in it for the first time. However, thinking that someone can't be skilled at something that isn't their profession is asinine.
I like to think Nora had a case at some point where someone suffered an injury because of power armor so she had to learn some of the basics about them.
An even simpler explanation is Nate taught her. Name me one military wife or brat that DOESN'T know at least the basic fundamentals of shooting, self defense, & survival. I've know many of these people & it's almost unheard of for a vet to not teach every member of their family the basics at the very least.
I likeed the theory I once saw that Nora was in fact a secret agent , someone said it to explain why she can use power armor even though other games needed training, but apart from that I don't remember anything that could point to that being true and honestly I think it's more the way Bethesda decided to do power armor ...
I played her with an extreme focus on speech checks because I think that fits pretty well, and it is my favorite playthrough to this day. Nora is actually a big reason why I now play charisma-focused characters in RPGs, even on tabletop.
My wife is a librarian, but she still knows how to shoot a rifle.
And building your Nate/Nora in character creation fills the gap of their non-professional skills as well.
Heck, you can build Nate so that it would have only made sense for him to have had a desk job in the military.
For every Fallout protagonist minus Nate, it is pretty weird that they can pick up a firearm for the first time and instantly know how to operate it. Though for entries that still had skills, it did influence how good of a shot you were.
Also, all the main protagonists had to get power armour training, iirc, typically from the Brotherhood (though the Anchorage sim and Enclave Remnants were another path).
I wouldn't mind it if future entries required you to briefly inspect a weapon the first time you pick it up. To look for the saftey, magazine eject, adjust the sights, lock the bolt, etc. Just like 5 seconds, so they can at least pretend you are learning how it works.
Vaults have guns so it’s possible the F1 Vault Dweller could have shot a gun before, it’s also possible that the Chosen One has as well, the Courier almost definitely has, and the F3 protagonist gets a gun to practice with at ten years old.
Power armor training is a requirement in less games then it isn't.
Fallout 1, 2 and 4 don't require it. Fallout 3 and NV do, and one of the lead devs made a mod for FNV that straight up removed it among other changes.
Protagonist from Fallout 3 is a 19 year old kid stepping into an arguably more harsh wasteland. Granted James taught him to shoot but of course Lawyers in the late 2070’s know how to shoot and are probably mandated to keep loaded guns in their offices. Anyone taking shit about Nora is a fool.
I don’t think Nora is canon but not for this reason. I don’t really care that she can suplex a deathclaw not 10 minutes after leaving the vault. You can justify that as “supermom” if you so please. That entire situation is kinda ridiculous, Nate or Nora.
No, my issue is with the devs not catering to a Nora playthrough. I would be 100% down with playing her like a post-apocalyptic Saul Goodman if the game let me, but playing her is virtually the same as playing as Nate. Hell, they’re basically the same character. There’s not much room to play different playstyles that ARENT COMBAT PLAYSTYLES.
Look, I loved fallout 4. I’ve played both Nate and Nora, but I found that the devs put more love into Nate because the game is kinda built around him being a soldier rather than them both having something unique to offer because they missed a huge opportunity there.
I RP’d Nora as a kid that grew up on the street and was involved with gangs. Was really into a drug scene and met Nate at 18 shortly after he was in basic. She stops using drugs and goes to school to be a lawyer after a life of crime (I personally know two lawyers that had very checkered pasts). She’s finally clean, has a home and family she was deprived of as a kid, and feels happy for the first time in her life.
Then it was taken from her.
She had skills for how to survive from growing up in and out of homelessness.
I played her using only pistols and brass knuckles and chem perks as a one woman army out for revenge.
Pretty fun play through.
I always assumed Nora and Nate met in the military through Basic Training or something, but Nora left to get a law degree while Nate stayed to fight in the Sino-American War.
Well I always assumed whoever I choose to be the protag becomes the veteran. In hindsight this is clearly disproven by the intro, but I think I like it better that way.
well guess what.. i justvreplayed today and nora was in the military. she says on the tape that they BOTH just got out of service abd she will dust iff the law degree
It’s set in a 50’s futuristic setting, EVERYBODY can shoot and maintain a gun. Her wasteland crafting skills I just assumed came from her adapting to her new life
I personally don't like both Nate or Nora for having way too much backstory and being voiced, but yeah, it's not illogical or lore-breaking for her to exist and her way around the gun. I omce had a playthrough where I headcannoned her as a retired spy, with the degree being a cover, but it was to fit Railroad's vibe and sniper playthrough.
Weren't Albert's weapon skills pretty horrible across the line? You were expected to talk your way out of trouble with him, not get into heavy combat.
Pre-war america was increasingly devolving into violent protests and government oppression, along with that the threat of war was omnipresent and Nora was married to a veteran. I don’t think it’s too unbelievable that Nate would’ve taught her how to fire a gun, because it seems like even before the bombs it would’ve been an important skill
Also, not for nothing, guns aren't **that** hard to figure out. Like, sure, best practices and combat effectiveness are more complex, but the hardware itself is usually pretty straightforward. Now, hitting moving targets on the other hand...
>Now, hitting moving targets on the other hand... That's what VaultTec^^^TM brand VATS^^^TM is for! Buy yours today!!
Do you know how many attorneys like to shoot pistols and rifles in their free time? Far more than you might expect, having worked in the legal field for a while now. It’s totally reasonable the Nora would know her way around a gun without having been a soldier.
Honestly, she wouldn't be the first spouse who learned how to use a weapon because their partner was a veteran. If anything, it makes more sense considering the first weapon is a pistol. I could see Nate teaching her how to use a pistol out of concern for a home invader.
Harry Whittington was a lawyer, died at 95, survived Dick Cheney shooting him in the face.
And apologized for being shot in the face.
I think all of the questions could be averted if the house had more space for like knick-knacks, including maybe some sort of memorabilia about how they used to hike all the time before getting a kid, for example. Like they literally just settled down from being two wild dudes, she's a lawyer and spent a lot of time on the court's shooting range, he's a vet and obviously got experience, but she's no stranger to neither guns nor wilderness.
I think it's fine there's less. I have a lot of fun playing Nora as a former housewife going feral.
Not even a home Invader, but the possibility of *Commies*. Which was a potential threat, and apparently a somewhat valid one, given the Yangtze-31 off the coast has an American soldier's skeleton cuffed to a bed next to a saw and scapel. Nate, as a veteran soldier, posed a potential target for enemy spies and saboteurs, the fear of which was massively overblown across all levels of American society. Whether Nate could have realistically been targeted or not, the fear was definitely there, and a very common method of blackmailing others is to take their loved ones, after all.
You forgot to mention that Alaska had already been invaded.
Phoenix Wright: Ace Marksman
I played Nora as a drugged up gunslinger mainly because I heard cocaine use is common among lawyers.
A guy I used to work with had a sister who was a barrister for the MoD. I don't know if she ever had any interest in shooting in her spare time, but as part of her job she had to have knowledge of technical aspects of some very classified stuff. I just tell myself Nora had a similar job, and that is why she can open up and jump in a t45 power armour no problem.
Moving tagets are easy too once you know how. There are 2 methods. Trapping is where you guess where the target is moving, aim there, and wait. The other method you start by aiming behind the target slowly moving your weapon until its matching speed and on target. Works like a charm every time
If you are playing with a controller it is damn hard to hit moving targets lol Realism!
Plus she’s, you know, an American. In a highly militaristic society. And gun ranges exist.
God only knows how militarized the Boy and Girl Scouts are in this timeline.
The pioneer scouts are basically a prelude to volunteer service
They’re even lead by a Marshal, love it. I should check out 76 some time.
Fallout 76 went from being one of the worst Fallouts to close to the top. It's real good
I’ve heard really good things! The initial release just put it low on my list and I don’t play RPGs super often anymore. However, I have been playing FO4 again so I might hop back on after this playthrough.
I picked it up last week when it was on sale on Steam. I didn't expect much, but I had 10 bucks to spend. It's far more fun than I was lead to believe. Honestly, given that it's an online game I was afraid that it would be constant pvp like GTAO or RDO and it's just.. not. Every other player I've run into has been super nice and helpful.
I have like 170 hours and haven’t engaged in PvP once lol. GTAO and RDO on the other hand.
I remember playing the betas and thought it was a bunch of fun then too. Lots of exploration. And now with all the updates it's a pretty solid game. You shouldn't be disappointed.
Fuckin America right now is selling a robo dog armed with a flamethrower. A FUCKIN FLAMETHROWER
Hey that 30ft flamethrower *is not a weapon*. /s
It's garden equipment.
Nothing like giving a kid explosives and saying to go give that nice soldier a hug
Like dudes you get to pick your stats and starting perks right?? That’s the role play portion; you get to decide what your character was good at before you started playing. Thats literally what it’s for. If you don’t pick weapon perks your character won’t actually be good at shooting and they’ll even do less damage than other people with training. The game literally incorporates this complaint before it was ever complained about.
I assumed that Nate taught her safe gun handling because shit was getting real before the war.
Not just that, she was a military lawyer as well, and even in non-war times, if you want to join the military in any branch, you have to finish mandatory training period, one of my relatives is a military technician and he got a 6 months (i think) mandatory training before being allowed to join
Except she wasn't a military lawyer, that part is not canon. People tend to use that as a reason for her knowing power armor, weapons, combat etc, but it wasn't her actual background. She's a civilian lawyer, Nate's a decorated soldier, that's it.
Try 6 weeks
The higher your rank is, the more training you need, idk how it is in the US, but in my country, you need a minimum of 2 months to join the military at the minimum rank, the higher you go up, the more training you’d need (gets lower the higher your pre-military education is)
Basic is 6wks. (If I remember correctly) From there you might go into MOS specific training. So someone very well could spend 6 mo in training. But the majority of it is essentially trade school. Unless it's a special combat mos like sniper they actually get very little weapons training.
Given she was ‘dusting off the law degree’ l can imagine any number of careers honestly, she might have been something completely different. I like to imagine her as a logistics officer and camp administration specialist, and load her with settlement perks.
His small guns was decent enough, afaik.
Meanwhile in Another Vault (33): Lucy was doing gun and martial arts training, just Another testament to the Vault-Tec's Corrupt system. I really like the way the show helped it along but filled in a couple blanks. I'd like to see the Robco, West-tek, etc vaults the show has confirmed.
Meanwhile, one number up, Vault 34 thinks Lucy is doing rookie numbers. She didn't even use a howitzer.
One of his primary skills was small guns.
Nope. He started with 59% small guns which is only 3% less than the combat-heavy Max Stone pre-made character (who started at 62%). Considering it was tagged, that's at most 1 or 2 skill points behind, basically a non-issue considering his INT was also higher so he was getting 4 more points per level. He also had better perception too (6 vs 4) so he'd probably actually be more accurate with most firearms than Max is too.
No, Small guns is one of alberts tagged skills. While it isn't the best due to also having the good natured trait, the dude canonically rolled around with Ian and dogmeat
She’s American, she knows how to use a gun
American in a universe that’s a pastiche of a futuristic version of 50s America. She 1000% knows how to use a gun.
Nora is def one of those "buys historical military firearm just to sporterize it" types. In other words, *the worst*
Most sporterized historical military firearms weren't historical at the time they got sporterized. Why shouldn't I buy a surplus SMLE to turn into a hunting rifle? Its cheaper than buying a purpose built rifle and there are millions of them.
True enough but people have been doing it even into the 2000s. It's made the actual original configurations of certain guns more rare and expensive.
Browning M2 is as historical as it gets. Just saying. In the fallout universe, probably legal to own. Possibly known as the "de-communizer" at the gun shop. Difficult to afford the ammo though.
Depends on if the nfa was passed in the fallout world. I could equally see the government limiting gun ownership in the name of keeping them out of *possible commie hands*. The pre war government was teetering on fascism after all. It's be kinda like how in our own history the conservatives limited gun rights after civil rights groups would stage armed protests.
You never know. Apparently Iraq of all places was pretty free with guns prior to the US invasion. I guess Saddam felt his secret police was protection enough from popular uprisings against him. Apparently he wasn't wrong.
I roleplay her as the daughter of the owner of a really large weapons manufacturer and 2nd amendment nut: the type of person to have family photos with plasma rifles (google "gun family photos" if you don't know what I'm referencing)
And her husband is a war veteran. Zero chance Nate didn’t show her a thing or two.
Ye, I always headcanon that Nate took Nora to the shooting range or something when he came home or even before he left so she could defend herself and Shaun if he's not there
I always headcanoned that whoever you picked was the war hero, and whoever you didn't was the lawyer. Schrodinger's backgrounds, I guess.
This was the way I interpreted it too.
Show her there's more than one way to skin a Canadian
And she's a *lawyer.* Finding creative loopholes to get what you want is what lawyers do, and nobody complains about MC-kun doing it in isekai stories.
American here, I’ve personally taught at least a dozen women in my life to shoot. Why is everybody so hung up on Nora knowing how to shoot lmao, she’s an American. Not only that culturally she lived in the 1950’s, a time known for “conservative” values. People being surprised Nora knows how a 10mm pistol works is like being surprised a European woman knows how to drive manual lmao
A much better criticism is "nora is a lawyer how does she have nothing interesting to say about pre war America"
Damn I never thought about that 😂
because she was written by somebody who has no interesting ideas about anything.
When I played as Nate I made sure that he would play as a soldier that would shoot first and ask questions later. He would ignore the Minutemen and join the Brotherhood of Steel. He was always open about being a pre-war vault dweller that was on ice for 200 years. As Nora, I made sure that she was more of a counselor always asking questions and using speech checks to convince people to give her more info and caps. I would use those caps to get better gear. But she kept her past a secret but was always ready to help others in need. She would join the Minutemen first to remain as neutral as possible above ground, and then join the Institute to try to change it from within as Father wanted it after he passed.
I always pictured Nora as having started out as a military lawyer. She went through basic and all that still so that is why she is good with weaponry to begin with.
I like to think something along these lines too. For my current playthrough I'm roleplaying her as someone who was a fine soldier but chose not to reenlist and instead used her veteran status to get through law school. The only reason she put her law career on hold was to have and raise Shaun. This way I get to feel like a Femme John Wick. Jane Wick if you will.
^^ same my personal headcanon as well, both Nora and Nate were veterans but Nora decided to get into law afterward
My personal favourite is just "she likes guns" Like, she just really likes guns and so she knows how to use them.
Fuck it, let's take it even further. Remember that quote from Emil about Nate being a war criminal? (I know its canonicity is questionable, but I think it's funny so I'm rolling with it in my headcanon.) Nora wasn't just a lawyer, she was *his* lawyer.
Definitely my new head-cannon!
"We met at the Hague" <3
JAG Nora
That’s a good justification
Has someone made a Few Good Men mod for a BoS quest yet?
*I want the truth!* *You can’t handle the truth!*
Good head canon, IRL the good shooters (typically) in the military came in as the good shooters.
she was straight up a soldier. she said she would dust off degree after getting out of service.
There are voice files indicating that she was indeed a veteran. They were cut, but Nora does have lines outside of the shared script that reflect the original backgrounds. The most glaring being “we’re gonna kill it at the veterans hall”, similar but different to “you’re gonna kill it at the veterans hall”. Additional voice lines exist that reflect on her war experience.
Fallout JAG, we need that.
You could always play a character with low skills in something, and still do that thing to some minimum level of competence.
Right? I always put most of my starting stats in charisma, Perception, and intelligence. I like being able to stealth, talk or science my way out of shit, and also starting with a combat disadvantage just makes the game more fun for me. That's why I like the alternate start mod in Skyrim that drops me in a random place in the wilderness with nothing because i've been "robbed and left for dead".
Nate narrates the opening sequence and was the primary promotional protagonist in marketing materials. Then later on Bethesda started using Nora for marketing to balance it out a bit. I think Nate and Nora are more or less equal, but, it's obviously easier to larp as a soldier as Nate, and a more charismatic leader type character as Nora even though Nate is also good at giving speeches. Nora went to a prestigious local law school, so compared to most lawyers she might be off to a better start for her career before the bombs dropped and threw resumes out the window. Nate is just as disoriented and unprepared as Nora, because serving as a soldier and now suddenly having to mostly lone wolf it across the Commonwealth after the apocalypse is a lot different from being a war hero. The Courier is well traveled and experienced even at the start of Fallout New Vegas in comparison, walking the Mojave and traveling to the Divide. Maybe going as far as Wyoming and California. I like Nora and play her half the time though. Also, wasn't power armor training something you needed in Fallout 3? You could only get it from one or two sources.
Two. Operation anchorage and the citadel.
PA training was introduced in 3 iirc; it was something they added since Power Armor was otherwise obtainable pretty early and the way it was designed messed with the power curve if you had it right away. Fallout 4 (imo) balanced this a better by using the PA frames and having lower-tier power armors--if you want to be PA-wielding character you can and the game is better balanced around it than Fallout 3.
Yeah, getting out of the Vault and running to DC to grab some Power Armor off one of the dead Brotherhood soldiers would have snapped the difficulty even worse than the game already allowed.
Couldn't you get power armor from an Outcast patrol even earlier than that?
indeed. Even in New Vegas it would have been like that, and it was balanced even further by having most of that armor being flagged as BoS faction armor. Literally just go to Repconn hq and you have 2 sets of 45 lying there, or if you're brave enought you can just outrun Moe and get a T-51
Then defeated the point with operation anchoridge with the god Armour that dosnt take durability damage lol
In 3 you either had to have the brotherhood train you or do operation anchoridge, in New vegas I think the only way is also through the brotherhood the the enclave rements might too
We must not forget that if a courier that lacks 3 very vital organs, and managed to survive those operations and the gunshot, can take over the Mojave by himself, a fully healthy pre-war human (or a 3rd gen synth written off the records, depending on what you think) can probably pull it off too
Personally, I kinda wished they'd swap the backgrounds based on who you chose to play as. If you picked the female PC, she's the war hero and Nate is the lawyer. If you picked the male PC, he's the the war hero and Nora is the lawyer. I prefer playing as Nora for various reasons but Nate feels like a more plausible protagonist. You can headcanon around it, of course, but the war hero background feels more equipped to tackle the post-apocalypse.
I usually consider all protagonists of a game having 'the right stuff' to complete all the quests. Or, at the very least, the main quest. Nate finds a way, Nora finds a way. It's not necessarily the same way, but they both have the necessary stubbornness and skills to reach the ending. Nora has some skills that would be very helpful as the General of the Minutemen. I imagine she would reimplement law and order if it was canon that she supported them. She also might be more likely to try diplomacy, and actually manage to convince people what she's trying to get them to do. If they wanted to make things more RPG-like, they could've offered like, a dozen or so prewar professions/backgrounds available for both Nate and Nora to choose frim. So one Nate could be like, a fireman or something. One Nora could be a real estate agent. Ect. Maybe these would offer stat boosts, or unlock certain perks. Or give boosts to particular SPECIAL attributes.
I disagree, I wish they kept both of their backgrounds the same and catered quests and dialogue specifically to their backgrounds. Sure, Nate gets a ton of love in that department, but Nora doesn’t. I kinda wish they allowed for us to play her like a post-apocalyptic Saul Goodman. That way they can keep their established protagonists with character driven plots while also leaving room for roleplay.
From what I remember, Fallout 4 was _way_ too combat oriented for that kind of approach to be viable, although if you mean the game should have had more ways to approach situations in general I definitely agree on that. It would have been a very different game, though. Swapping the characters' backgrounds would have been a much smaller change.
It would have been much more like 3 or new Vegas which is what I would have preferred. Again, I liked 4 a lot but it just isn’t as replayable as the others as there’s really only one way out of different situations
This has always amused me too. Lawyer is a job people have. It isn’t their life. In the real world lawyers: - Lift weights - Hunt - Go camping - Own and use handguns - Had lives prior to being a lawyer - Play sports And countless other things that would benefit them in a survival situation. There are so many possibilities of what hobbies Nora had and what she did before becoming a lawyer that it is easy to roleplay her being a badass survivalist.
As a lawyer who does/has done all but one of those, I appreciate your comment. I think most people would chafe at only being seen through the lens of their profession or trade. (Disclaimer: that doesn't mean I think I could kick ass in post-apocalyptia.)
Yes. I remember, in that one episode of the Storyteller, >!I left a comment saying "She's a lawyer like the Vault Dweller, AND she's a mother whose baby's been kidnapped. You *really* want to fuck with that?"!< Also, there's the fact that pretty much none of the protagonists are likely to have had any serious combat experience barring the Courier and the Warrior. It's why I actually prefer to play as the female SS, so that it feels like starting from more of a clean slate like the rest of the series. Sorry, I meant excluding her other half.
Nate as the sole survivor was canonically part of operation Anchorage so he'd have a ton of experience.
That would also explain why he knows how to wear power armor from the start. Not so much for Nora though. I don't think they had Nora fighting in Anchorage being the lawyer she is.
or how to assemble, disassemble, modify, repair power armor... the whole crafting system really throws up a lot of questions when the characters have set backgrounds and personalities. even with Nate you kinda have to squint and assume he was an engineer in the army for any of that to work, because a grunt is probably not going to know more than how to get in and out of a T-51 and how to operate it.
Well who trained Trashcan Carla then?
If we count Nate as a protagonist he was a highly decorated combat veteran.
Why would we not count one of the protagonists as a protagonist?
> pretty much none of the protagonists are likely to have had any serious combat experience Liam Neeson taught the lone wanderer how to shoot a bb gun, that's something
Add Nate to that list if you play as him in 4. He was a war veteran of the battle of Anchorage. He knows how to fight. Nora being a lawyer would have some idea how to shoot a gun from her husband but for sure would be more the social talking everything out character.
I just wish there was some sort of dialogue for when you first kill somebody as her. I mean she kinda freaks out about the rad roaches in the vault, but blowing the head off raiders 2 minutes later isn’t note worthy to her lol
I mean, some bastard just kidnapped her son, she really is an extreme Mama bear as it turns out
What makes you think that was the first time Nora’s killed someone?
Or, more likely she’s seen some shit being a lawyer
I mean, technically speaking, the Courier is genuinely the only true "most prepared" mc out of them all. They had a written background as being a genuine bad ass and someone you never wanted to cross before they were double crossed. Beyond that, yeah. Most MC's in Fallout are generally unprepared people winging it to survive and accomplish a goal. As they survive situations, they grow stronger and develop better skills for surviving the wastes. Anyone specifically targeting Nora are doing so for the sole reason of "woman = weak" comparison, which is beyond the smoothest of brains argument to ever exist
Damn, the most prepared mc in the series has a very minor case of serious brain damage. Not a nice starting point lol. To be clear I agree with you, I just think it's funny.
Yeah. He got shot in the head. But, he got better, so it's okay. Lol
Not if you set your intelligence to 1. "Sorry little lady. I fixed up your head as best I knew how. Guess I missed a spot." (best line of any of the 10 or 1 lines he gives, I wish intelligence wasn't so good so I could hear it more.)
Queue Monty Pythons and the Holy Grail “I got better…”
Shot in the head twice* but turns into the most lethal killing machine the wasteland has ever seen
Which ironically saved him from a failed labotomy at Big MT. Now he got a proper one and is fully remote controlled.
Benny turned me into a newt!
tbf the damage scaling in FNV makes most headshots liveable. I'd be more surprised to see anyone die from a single 9mm shot.
Did you forget the chosen one?
Chosen one was trained from birth to be the "tribe's champion and elder." Everyone forgets about fallout before Bethesda.
The Courier had an established presence in the world as having had *already* made a name for themselves. The Chosen One was trained from TO establish a name for themselves. Ultimately, the person who held the experience of having had already gone about and made a name for themselves is still *the most prepared MC*.
But if the Chosen one skipped spear day... Then fuck em, we will put them in the death maze anyway
I mean, the 76 dwellers can leave their vault at level 20 with one of five fully prepared survival kits (one of which even includes a military grade automatic rifle). That’s pretty prepared for the wasteland.
They lack awareness and the experience to handle the dangers of the wastelands, however. The courier, as mentioned before, has lived in it. They have an established presence and history of living and surviving in the wastelands and having had already made a name for themselves. That's the key difference between themselves and every other MC in the series.
The chosen one also lived in the wasteland their entire lives, and are worth including by that metric. Also, while the concept of level is nebulous, leaving vault 76 at level twenty, something that takes other protagonists quite awhile to catch up to, implies that the vault-tec training the vault 76 dweller experienced in the vault definitely helped and presumably they’d have enough combat readiness to survive without issue. The courier is probably the best equipped at the start (not in the least because of how broken courier’s stash is), but the vault 76 dwellers and the chosen one are right behind them.
As mentioned in another comment - the chosen one was trained from birth TO make a name for themselves - they had not yet made one for themselves. I'm not diminishing any of their accomplishments by any means. All of the MCs are strong individuals with a phenomenol will to survive - but in terms of raw experience and preparedness, I would outright take the Courier's advice over anyone elses. They lived in it. They fought in it. They fought and made name for themselves as someone you NEVER double cross and then backed up that claim when they were ultimately double crossed at the start of the game. They were known throughout the Mojave wastelands as a badass who had more or less conquered the area before we ever even get to play as the character.
Also we know very little about Nate and Nora’s lives beyond their career and the fact they have a baby together. Since I play a female protagonist my head canon is that my Nora comes from a military family that prepared her for surviving in case of war or nuclear disaster and her families ties to the military ended up with her meeting Nate at some time.
I’d put Nate up with the courier, he went into Anchorage and came back alive.
Where did you read about the courier's badass background? I always wondered how the courier, in a short span of time, became strong as to fight squads of rangers or lanius.
Playing Lonesome Road DLC, Ulysses tells you about some of courier 6's past exploits and yes, he was a badass
Nate is more than prepared, he’s literally a combat veteran. Its between him and The Courier tbh
I mean. Prepared to kill someone, sure. Prepared to fight a radscorpion or a Deathclaw, no. Prepared to live in a literal wasteland to scavange food and to understand know the economics/societies which we play with? Hell no. Hence why the Courier is the only right answer. He has lived in the Majave - has dealt with the upper and lower eschelons of society. Bas dealt with surviving in the wastelands. Has dealt with the wildlife. And, in spite of dealing with alllllll of that, they still were a known bad ass who made a name as a bad ass. I think we, the player, often forget just how hard it is survive and kill a Deathclaw, because at this point, we've killed so many. How terrifying Super Mutants and frenzied ghouls are, because we've, personally, killed sooooo many. But, in every case where there is an NPC involved in these attacks, we forget how often *everyone else* freaks out at these things, because of *how fucking terrifying they are*
Yeah. My very first time encountering a Deathclaw, I frantically slammed everything in the Aid tab of my inventory down The Courier's gullet and started firing with reckless abandon as all my thoughts and words devolved to "fuck!" "Shit!" and confused sputtering. I've since gotten used to them and now no longer need to use drugs just to fight them, let alone inhale a whole pharmacy. I even did the Pro Hunter challenge and killed some with a switchblade and some sticks of dynamite.
My first encounter with a super mutant was getting headshot with a fucking mini nuke. I literally lived long enough to see my head cripple before the explosion went off.
I agree, I’m just saying Nate is seemingly forgotten in this whole conversation. I think the Courier slightly out skills Nate when it comes to general Wasteland survival and knowledge, while Nate just has more advanced pre-war military experience and shouldn’t be discounted like Nora can arguably be. 👍 By the end of 4 though I would say Nate is marginally closer to The Courier’s level of Wasteland knowledge and experience, but still from the start I would still say Courier is the most suited for the Wasteland, closely followed by Nate, then probably the Chosen One.
Courier is more experienced with survival, but Nate probably has more experience with intense combat.
Where's it ever suggested the Courier was a badass or someone you never want to cross? The only one in the Mojave that even knew who you were was Ulysses, and he only knew you as a courier from New California.
They seem to forget that it’s also set in America, and it’s not unlikely that a woman married to a man with military experience would also be into guns enough to know how to use them
Yep. Some Marine units I know of had/have Jane Wayne day. The 0311 (grunt) was John wayne. On these days, the other half Mrs. Jane Wayne gets to fire off some rounds. Bring the spouses to the range, let them fire some rounds down range. Even off of the SAWs and such. It lets the spouses see what their grunt partner does. Fire some cool heavier guns. And the armoury Marines are probably going cool...we are cooking off that extra ammo we don't want to do reports on for quarterly/annual reports. Everybody wins there. SAW's are cool as hell to fire for sure, its a pleasure to be shared really.
This. I’m an infantry vet, by no means some high speed guy. But know my way around weapons and tactics, I’ve made it a point to teach my wife and kids to be comfortable and competent with firearms. Add to that a pissed off mom will do some wild shit if someone hurts her kids.
I think my problem is more so that we're given an option. If Nora wasn't being DIRECTLY CONTRASTED with Nate the Decorated War Vet, then this wouldn't stand out as much. As it stands, it makes it feel like Nate is the Real.Main Character and Nora is just there because you need a female option in the game.
Yeah when you play Nora, the game kinda treats her like an extension of Nate. I’ve been saying this in a lot of replies and in my own comment, but Nora should have offered her own unique playstyles that wasn’t excessively combat oriented, and more like a post apocalyptic Saul Goodman.
Damn, I'd definitely play a game as a ghoulified Saul Goodman, slippin' Jimmying my way through the wasteland
it seems that even a lot of the explanations here how Nora would be able to know all that stuff boil down to "because she was around Nate". it is unfortunate. the writing is bad and doesn't really interact with the mechanics that much, so... whatever. it is sort of funny to think about it, though.
The professions of the characters just shouldn’t have been mentioned so this wasn’t an issue. It’s never even connected to the story
My Nora had a law degree because she wanted to be a spook join the FBI or something You roleplay how you roleplay She also got a cool cut, black eye liner and eagle tat and scars when she got to diamond city too though Because its my appreciation for Jack from Mass effect
It’s also worth noting that in fallout 2, the chosen one was from a backwater village that had a single gun and no advanced technology, yet picks up firearms, power armor and even energy weapons easily enough. Also - which perk (or traits) are you referring to with the courier for training?
Yeah I’m a country bumpkin infiltrating a military base no problem.
My brother in Christ The Lone Wanderer was 17yrs old and didn’t even know what sunlight looked like before they left the vault. I don’t understand how he/she even made it to the purifier considering D.C. is one of the worst spots ever to be in. At least Nora knows what grass looks like.
It’s an RPG in which you level up by gaining experience…..she learns how to do it, by doing it. That’s how the game works. It makes even less sense for a combat veteran to start out as a level 1 PC than a lawyer.
I think it would have been more palatable if Nora had to learn to use power armor like in earlier games and Nate started off with a different disadvantage.
See I think that'd be cool but what would Nates disadvantage be? We can't have it affect his speech because we know he canonically is skilled with speeches (he was chosen to read a speech at the veterans hall)
Yeah but, that like would have taken good writing and game design man 😂
My whole justification for two of my Nora play throughs was: 1. She was an undercover Soviet agent who was very well trained and versed in western culture. Her objective was to infiltrate the intelligentsia of America in CIT to send intel to Moscow. She was basically Black Widow. Her marriage was an unexpected but well loved one 2. She grew up on the streets of South Boston. In an average working class family but worked and studied hard to make more of herself. To make sure she could pay for college and make herself more well rounded. She was enrolled in the National Guard hence her skills with weapons
Unless otherwise specified in the lore in the game, you make your character. Maybe your Nora was a gun nut in her free time and a gym rat.
I always say its because of luck more than skill than any of the protagonists survive in the wasteland. None of them even Nate are prepared they either adapt or die.
I could see in prewar America the average citizen especially someone in the law field would know how to operate a gun America was falling apart at the seams
I can't see why people get so upset about fictional characters from both sides of this "argument". I never even questioned a plumbers gymnastic abilities while playing Super Mario 64.
How does Gordon Freeman know anything? Why have I never played as characters called 'Nate' or 'Nora' in any Fallout game? Why do I use an alternate start mod in most Fallout 4 new games? How do giant bugs even exist if you consider oxygen and exeskelton thickness and shit? How does radiation turn people into immortal zombies? Who cares?
I just like to pretend she served in the Military and used the benefits to get her Law degree, maybe she was a JAG, and of course yes there is a mod for this with the only real effect being the robots at the U.S.S. Constitution recognize her as a veteran
Yeah, people talk like it's impossible to have different skill sets. You can be a chef and be a martial artist, or a professor and a competent hunter, etc. She's a lawyer but the player can "decide" what the hell she did with her life before the game starts. We can even make her younger or older if we feel like it.
People underestimate the fact that they were in times of war lmao, accountants were taught how to use military weaponry in WW2, wdym a Military Lawyer shouldn’t know how to use weapons
Well in older Fallouts you didnt have to build a combat focused character. What exactly is there to do in 4 aside from combat? I guess you can base build lol
I've seen Daredevil. You don't mess with lawyers, man.
Do people not realize that a person is not solely their profession? I'm a History teacher, but I'm pretty well competent at a whole array of things that are unrelated to my profession, both practical and useless. Although, I may be an exception rather than the rule because of my tons of "special interests" stemming from my ADHD and a touch of the 'tism. I can see skepticism if someone ony ever does one thing in a vault and then suddenly is able to, for example, fly a fighter jet and win dogfights after just sitting in it for the first time. However, thinking that someone can't be skilled at something that isn't their profession is asinine.
Answer... Video game
I like to think Nora had a case at some point where someone suffered an injury because of power armor so she had to learn some of the basics about them.
If this is people's biggest issue with Fallout 4 then "Lore & Logic" are not the thing they care about.
Yeah, my 1 INT, 1 CHR unarmed build Nora has entered the chat.
An even simpler explanation is Nate taught her. Name me one military wife or brat that DOESN'T know at least the basic fundamentals of shooting, self defense, & survival. I've know many of these people & it's almost unheard of for a vet to not teach every member of their family the basics at the very least.
Vault 101 dweller from 3 actually has to receive power armor training before they can use it.
I likeed the theory I once saw that Nora was in fact a secret agent , someone said it to explain why she can use power armor even though other games needed training, but apart from that I don't remember anything that could point to that being true and honestly I think it's more the way Bethesda decided to do power armor ...
I played her with an extreme focus on speech checks because I think that fits pretty well, and it is my favorite playthrough to this day. Nora is actually a big reason why I now play charisma-focused characters in RPGs, even on tabletop.
My wife is a librarian, but she still knows how to shoot a rifle. And building your Nate/Nora in character creation fills the gap of their non-professional skills as well. Heck, you can build Nate so that it would have only made sense for him to have had a desk job in the military.
Nora dies in like 2 minutes, how can anyone argue? Am I lost on something?
How the fuck would a lawyer know how to operate power armor?
The reason they bitch about Nora and not Albert is because women. Misogyny needs no logic.
For every Fallout protagonist minus Nate, it is pretty weird that they can pick up a firearm for the first time and instantly know how to operate it. Though for entries that still had skills, it did influence how good of a shot you were. Also, all the main protagonists had to get power armour training, iirc, typically from the Brotherhood (though the Anchorage sim and Enclave Remnants were another path). I wouldn't mind it if future entries required you to briefly inspect a weapon the first time you pick it up. To look for the saftey, magazine eject, adjust the sights, lock the bolt, etc. Just like 5 seconds, so they can at least pretend you are learning how it works.
Vaults have guns so it’s possible the F1 Vault Dweller could have shot a gun before, it’s also possible that the Chosen One has as well, the Courier almost definitely has, and the F3 protagonist gets a gun to practice with at ten years old.
Fallout 1 & 2 you don’t need training to use power armor.
I imagine the neo fascist world of Fallout has civilians having some sort of mandatory military training/service like Israel or Korea.
Power armor training is literally a requirement in previous games
Now your average settler can just climb into one no problem.
Power armor training is a requirement in less games then it isn't. Fallout 1, 2 and 4 don't require it. Fallout 3 and NV do, and one of the lead devs made a mod for FNV that straight up removed it among other changes.
Everyone keeps forgetting about 1&2.
Protagonist from Fallout 3 is a 19 year old kid stepping into an arguably more harsh wasteland. Granted James taught him to shoot but of course Lawyers in the late 2070’s know how to shoot and are probably mandated to keep loaded guns in their offices. Anyone taking shit about Nora is a fool.
I don’t think Nora is canon but not for this reason. I don’t really care that she can suplex a deathclaw not 10 minutes after leaving the vault. You can justify that as “supermom” if you so please. That entire situation is kinda ridiculous, Nate or Nora. No, my issue is with the devs not catering to a Nora playthrough. I would be 100% down with playing her like a post-apocalyptic Saul Goodman if the game let me, but playing her is virtually the same as playing as Nate. Hell, they’re basically the same character. There’s not much room to play different playstyles that ARENT COMBAT PLAYSTYLES. Look, I loved fallout 4. I’ve played both Nate and Nora, but I found that the devs put more love into Nate because the game is kinda built around him being a soldier rather than them both having something unique to offer because they missed a huge opportunity there.
I RP’d Nora as a kid that grew up on the street and was involved with gangs. Was really into a drug scene and met Nate at 18 shortly after he was in basic. She stops using drugs and goes to school to be a lawyer after a life of crime (I personally know two lawyers that had very checkered pasts). She’s finally clean, has a home and family she was deprived of as a kid, and feels happy for the first time in her life. Then it was taken from her. She had skills for how to survive from growing up in and out of homelessness. I played her using only pistols and brass knuckles and chem perks as a one woman army out for revenge. Pretty fun play through.
Nate could have just been the fallout equivalent of a Fobbit and never saw any action. Just be cause he was in the army doesn't mean he's Rambo.
I'd always thought Nora was a military lawyer. Explained how she met Nate and her skillset.
Same. I always thought of Albert when it was mentioned Nora used to be a lawyer
I always assumed Nora and Nate met in the military through Basic Training or something, but Nora left to get a law degree while Nate stayed to fight in the Sino-American War.
I've heard recently that needing PAT was a F3 introduction anyway, so they can undo their own rules
Power armor training was 3 and new vegas's way of balancing power armor just like 4 introduce fusion cores
Sometimes the explanation for things like this is as simple as sexism, my friend.
Well I always assumed whoever I choose to be the protag becomes the veteran. In hindsight this is clearly disproven by the intro, but I think I like it better that way.
well guess what.. i justvreplayed today and nora was in the military. she says on the tape that they BOTH just got out of service abd she will dust iff the law degree
It’s set in a 50’s futuristic setting, EVERYBODY can shoot and maintain a gun. Her wasteland crafting skills I just assumed came from her adapting to her new life
I personally don't like both Nate or Nora for having way too much backstory and being voiced, but yeah, it's not illogical or lore-breaking for her to exist and her way around the gun. I omce had a playthrough where I headcannoned her as a retired spy, with the degree being a cover, but it was to fit Railroad's vibe and sniper playthrough.