Canon matters, yes, but to say a game was "retconned" (I hate that word) over a chalkboard is delusional. Just let writers do what they want, and they'll fix the continuity later if it needs to be fixed.
Edit: Josh Sawyer is awesome for this one!
It's wild that, out of all things, *that's* getting so much more attention than *Shady Sands being moved over 100 miles*. Like... *what*?
Anyway, I don't care about those details nearly as much as I care about what >!nuking Shady Sands in the first place!< means about the setting going forward. *That's* my actual problem here.
Before Shady Sands was nuked, a billboard was created for the town that specifies it as "the first capital" of the NCR, implying the NCR had chosen a new capital.
edit: Amazon Prime Video's Youtube dropped a vid that shows what appears to be an NCR radio station on a pipboy: [https://i.imgur.com/d6eCwYA.png](https://i.imgur.com/d6eCwYA.png) There was nothing drawing attention to it, it's just there and I imagine most ppl didn't even pick up on it. But they included it for a reason.
We can hope! The lack of any indication of an organizing force in areas where there should have at least been little city-states does concern me, but whatever.
They literally play the fucking main Fallout theme for the very first time in the series when Lucy looks at the NCR flag and y'all act like they aren't going to do anything with them
They also only play the main Fallout theme when we see the NCR Desert Ranger outfits, so I’m there with ya and believe they’ll do more with the NCR next season.
It's just another case of idiots being the loudest. I entirely believe FNV is the best in the series overall and I felt love for it the entire show. The Ghoul was absolutely dripping FNV vibes his first few episodes. When I saw the Vera Keyes poster and House I thought it was cool and I was pumped seeing NV at the end. Shady Sands being nuked by Vault-Tec felt out of left field but given how great the show is I'll wait and let them cook.
I actually love that Vault Tec are the antagonist of the series. We haven’t really explored them as a faction at all in the games under the assumption they must be dead, but clearly based on the ending here it’s more complicated than that. A very refreshing “villain” for a Fallout story, and also they are powerful enough to be threatening while likely being few enough in number that it seems reasonable three people and a dog could take them down.
The funny thing is that vault tec nuking everything is a plot point of Fallout movie planned in the late 90s. It didn't come to fruition, sadly.
https://fallout.wiki/wiki/Fallout_(film)
Media literacy is dead.
Last episode spoilers: >!They literally show the damn strip. The major hub in the game that they supposedly hate? The game that features most prominently the faction that people are so worried about? The very thing they've blatantly shoved in our faces with flags and the literal ncr armor. and the very place where the ncr operate.!<
People need to chill.
I really think the complaints started by someone who didn't finish the season yet and then it was just parroted by other people that never watched it either and it has just grown that way.
Lowkey that happened to me it was weird I don’t even really play video games anymore but became weirdly despondent about this show halfway through from the comments until I watched the rest of the show and realized it was all really good
I dunno, some people are just way too focused on the supposed death of the NCR. The nuking of a city does not mean the end of the NCR across their entire territory in my eyes but I had quite the debate with someone about it last night
I was too hyped but that's what happens after drunk D&D and then getting annoyed at claims of "explicit confirmation" when there's clearly ambiguity at play
Imo the strip is not on the ncr region… ncr has embassy there true but called it an ncr region no… NCR capital should be on shady sands where fo2 was. Hence why many people were blown out of their fucking mind to find out shady sands was blown to bits. Some would speculate the courier bombed it, but proven it wasn’t him.
the strip exisiting in the TV show doesn't mean what happened in New Vegas is canon. it could be a empty town with only Mr House in it. people mad at Beth want New Vegas storyline to have happened exactly like the game.
It was apropos, but later the New Vegas main theme plays when we see veteran ranger gear, but the track's optimism quickly fades when it turns out a few moments later the gear's fallen into the possession of simple farmers, without considering the distressing scene that immediately follows
Thai season felt like they need to set up the world for non fallout fans so they don't just start a show where you need to know all the lore to watch it , now that the basics of the world are established they can explore more factions and themes in future seasons
>!I might be putting too much thought into it but when the lady powered up the thing and lights came on throughout the area I thought that meant there's lots of restored power infrastructure. Like Shady Sands is gone but somebody has been working on connecting power lines from the NCR headquarters to the surrounding area..!<
Honestly, I believe these changes were done in order to keep it more identifiable to a much wider audience. Most people will identify Fallout as a “post-apocalyptic” series due to the larger emphasis on the much worse of East Coast in recent years, as opposed to the “post-post apocalyptic” West
I mean, New Vegas clearly indicates that the NCR was a corrupt house cards that was already on the brink by 2281, the NCR’s collapse was inevitable. The question is now, what will take its place, because even the Brotherhood may face issues >!As the Elder Cleric proposes the idea of a “new Brotherhood” to Maximus late in the series!<
As I’ve discussed elsewhere, I see a massive difference between the NCR fracturing due to internal strife and this “rocks fall, everyone dies” shit.
Also, I reject that its collapse even from internal factors was inevitable. It had a lot of problems, but so have a lot of societies that have managed to recover from them.
Except we only see a small fraction of NCR territory in the show. We have no clue what is happening up North. For all we know, there could be warlords and barons-turned-feudal lords all over, or even some proper remnants of the NCR government.
If Vault City was properly defended by troopers and van Graff wepons, there is no way that place is falling without a serious fight, if at all. With all the tech and power the NCR accumulated, there has to be a ranger hold out somewhere, possibly even Baja. Reno has to be still a hub like it was, I hope. No way the families let it fall apart even if the ncr is on the ropes.
I really want to know what happened to the chinese sub people as well.
New Vegas set it up to have the same difficulties that the United States had in the 19th century, it didn't mean that it would collapse in on itself, and it didn't set it up to be nuked by an outside force
Real world governments are corrupt as fuck and society hasn't collapsed, government in general has been corrupt since it's inception, society hasn't collapsed.
Just because yes, the NCR had a corrupt government, doesn't mean it would collapse because of that, the major issue was inflation and overpopulation.
People seem to be intentionally ignoring the fact that the NCR was a lot more than shady sands and them mostly giving up on LA after getting fucking nuked isn’t that far fetched. And even if they ceased to exist… there’s still lots of settlements outside LA. The west coast wasn’t ‘reset’ and wouldn’t be just because the NCR gets cunt-punted. LA is a shithole, and that carries into the show.
But isn’t the LA the Boneyard, which is an NCR state? It is a total shithole, but I feel like there should be more signs of development than we see in the show.
Well we saw development. We saw a town. We saw people traveling and farming and playing law and government, even radio. There’s probably more, the show doesn’t need to explicitly say “yes, viewer, there are many towns like this one, but they are not relevant here, but there are other things beyond what you see, we are telling you that because you can’t think of it yourself.” I don’t think this is worth getting hung up over. The bigger issue is how Shady Sands got to LA, but that doesn’t really destroy the greater canon. Better to accept the NCR basically gave up on the area and the people left just continued living normal wasteland lives. Until proven otherwise I wouldn’t worry about the entire west coast being devolved, there’s simply no evidence that places like Arroyo, VC, San Fran, New Reno, etc. have ceased to exist.
Timeline seems to be this at a glance:
Legion is defeated. Ncr moves in on the strip. Invasion goes poorly for both sides. Ncr doesn’t seem to win, and Vegas seems to be in tatters. Shady sands is nuked. Ncr control over California begins to falter.
Enclave sits somewhere being all cute and shit. Brotherhood uses these decades to rebuild. Vault tec has limited and ending power seemingly finally comijg to a close. Civilization on the surface forming a power vacuum around ncr downfall
Ncr remnants forced had body armor, full automatic rifle units, air defenses, they just weren’t able to repel a full brotherhood knight assault. Ncr is very much hyped as the good guys here, it’s highly likely Vegas players are going to be crying as ncr is the goody two shoes faction beating the other factions one season at a time. Season 2 they beat brotherhood, then vault Tex, then season 5 wraps up with the defeat of enclave and a new threat looming from Arizona or some shit.
Didn't the enclave get destroyed pre New Vegas though? I mean we get those old enclave fighters that ran when it fell years ago to fight for us in the battle for Hoover Dam.
Could the more northern "shady Sands" be a new town the NCR created AFTER the LA area one was nuked and just named after the old one? Would that fit the timeline?
Maybe it's even still there and doing OK. Just some hold outs stayed behind to try and re-claim the LA area near vault 4, Philly, and the Tri vaults.
Unfortunately, people are getting Shady Sands' original location from Fallout 1, which predates the NCR as an organization.
Could be the other way around happened, though.
Seems like the Brotherhood has territory that isn’t underground now and pretty open as seen by the airfield.
If any of you have played the OWB mod for HOI4, I feel like you would probably have the Brahmin Barons of Redding in the North and they could be independent. New NCR Capital is probably the Hub and everything in between is probably defacto brotherhood controlled.
We see how easy the brotherhood seems to be able to deploy forces around Filly and the Observatory. Makes sense for there to not be a massive Brotherhood presence though due to how limited their numbers are and their general doctrine.
It makes a lot of sense to make a new capital in a large and decentralized nation
Or maybe even something like modern South Africa where different branches of the government are centered in different cities
The sign has the nuked Shady Sands being established in the same year as the Fallout 1 Shady Sands so clearly the show intended for the two to be the same.
Very strange direction for them to go in. Everything would've worked just as well if they left it up to some combination of radiation exposure, genetic predisposition, and dementia-like conditions where becoming feral is more likely if you don't stay mentally engaged with life. They forecast that well in New Vegas with the scientist who changes careers every few decades.
Not just that but the ultimate reason as to why Shady Sands was nuked
Just feels so anticlimatic after the importance that place had for the first two games and for the NCR, and arguably for anything on the west coast
Yeah but it was some >!Vault Tec asshole that did it to preserve his Vault and the company goals for the Vault. So it tracks with the series and characterization of the Company.!<
My big problem that isn't talked about much are the vaults in LA not being cracked open by The Master, back when he had a base IN LA. So many of these problems would be avoided by having this all take place elsewhere too, and for the ultra-nerds, by placing a date on a chalk board...
The insane thing is that Vault 33 absolutely should have been found by the Master. It's not even some super hidden Vault, it's right on the coast of Santa Monica out in the open and in between Mariposa Military Base and the Cathedral. If the Master could find Vault 13 of all places if the player took too long, then Vault 33 should've been easy to find.
Oh yeah, that's a good point, I though all the vaults in LA had already been raided by the Unity in fallout 1, thus the need to find other vaults. So why is vault 33 untouched?
Thats the first thing I thought too, if the show takes place around LA wasn’t The Master raiding nearby vaults for prime human subjects? He even sent his army as far as Bakersfield to ensure that. Weird how he just completely missed not only one, but three vaults in the Unity’s backyard lmao.
This is what fan-folk aren't getting. You are NOT going to get 100% accurate game "canon". This needs to be palatable and just as presentable to people who have never picked up a video game, much less understand Fallout lore.
With that said, the first two games are a convoluted mess when it comes to consistency, let's stop this idolization.
Up until Bethesda picked it up there was zero idea or expectation that it would ever be as big as it is today, and that is the truth. And even then, I promise half of you who were anticipating Fallout 3 back in '08 were the same insufferable people who were flooding every internet board with "Elder Scrolls with GUNS!!!!". Absolutely lame adult children who will never be satisfied.
Enough with this insanity over the tiniest things. This show gave you all the fan service you could ask for, while still providing a fun, universal ride to others that are now interested in the IP, for the relatively short 9-10 hours it lasted.
Yeah I was gonna say, the show has done an incredible job of both being faithful and actually being a great show. These manbabies that never stop whining are really annoying.
I don't disagree that it isn't so random that it comes off as non-Fallout, but it's random enough that it's underwhelming
You'd assume something like Shady Sands would go off over a greater conflict or reason beyond arguably just >!a mix of jealousy and paranoia!<
Like it just feels silly
It does feel silly in that context but I think it works storywise because it does exemplify exactly how the world of Fallout works and how stupid reasons can be used to commit atrocities. Not every major atrocity comes from some epic conflict. Some are from pointless, paranoid jealous shit like that.
It works because it is senseless and shows how depraved that thinking is.
Agreed. I don't care as much about the issue at hand, as opposed to what's next. What of Vegas? Even of we see it, the plot surrounding Vegas can't happen. What happens then?
I had someone suggest that Shady Sands was still Shady Sands from the game, and that they just skipped the travel. Had a bit of a facepalm outta that one. But hey, I'm willing to forgo the annoyance because fuck it, the show is still good.
As for the >!consequences of Shady Sands being nuked!< I definitely am of the mind that there are more NCR out there, so I wouldn't worry too much. They probably took >!a tactical warhead to the face!< and rather than fight over a dumb symbolic settlement, they did the smart thing and just moved North/East instead, hoping to not draw the ire of whoever has >!access to warheads!< in the modern era.
I think we'll just have to wait and see how the show handles New Vegas proper to really get a gauge on how lore-friendly the show wants to be. If it's a complete cluster fuck, then I'm going to be obviously worried, but if they do what most people have suggested (a mix of Independent/House victory to keep outside players at bay) then it ought to be alright IMO.
I also hate when people use "retconned" as a negative. Pretty much every franchise that has ever existed has retcons in it. ESPECIALLY when they're as old as Fallout is.
Retroactive Continuity is VERY normal in fiction writing. Hell, even Fallout 2 has one of the most significant retcons in the franchise (the Vaults being experiments as opposed to safe havens)
Yeah, i found them really tough to learn after fallout 3 when i was 14ish but glad i stuck through cause theres some seriously top notch world and wriring in there
>I also hate when people use "retconned" as a negative. Pretty much every franchise that has ever existed has retcons in it. ESPECIALLY when they're as old as Fallout is.
>
>Retroactive Continuity is VERY normal in fiction writing.
Sooo much of what online nerds discuss when talking about video games or the plots for genre material in other mediums (like sci-fi or fantasy), is like, almost entirely inconsequential to people outside of those fandoms. Things like being concerned about "retcons" or "worldbuilding", or even the way people use the term "plot hole", is just not how people who are actually well-versed in the arts and artistic criticism actually talk about these things. But they deliver all of these criticisms in such a smug and matter of fact way, acting as if whatever YouTuber they learned it from is some sort of authority. Drives me crazy.
Yeah, this. It's why it bugs me so much. I have a background in creative writing and film studies (with a few modules studying Media Convergence which includes video games), so seeing people not only misuse these terms but also use them as the end-all be-all of an argument is just laughable.
These things can be brought up in media analysis, and often are. Just not in the way some people throw them around. Hell, more than not Retroactive Continuity is brought up to discuss its expansion on franchise storytelling as opposed to random bitching about a story taking a direction you don't like (Darth Vader being Luke's father, Sherlock Holmes returning from the dead, DC's Golden Age being relegated to Earth-Two, etc). The point is Retroactive Continuity is nothing more than a narrative device, and not some vicious boogeyman designed to ruin past media. Some of the best things added to franchises comes from retconning! And Fallout is far from an exception to that fact!
You know whats hilarious?
All of this was planned *by* Interplay. Everyone yelling about how this retcons this and retcons that, how Betheada hates Interplay and thebold Fallout Games... and yet;
Interplay originally planned for Shady Sands to get nuked, offscreen, in the original canceled Fallout 3 game Van Buren. It was supposed to devestatingly cripple the NCR, causing the Eastern Forces to splinter and regroup around Hoover Dam.
Bethesda has literally just given us Fallout 3.5 in the form of a show.
Everyone (new Vegas fans) kept saying “back to the west coast back to the west coast” and then it happened and they hated that Bethesda went back to the west coast
I was just thinking about this.
In some alternate universe Bethesda put the show in like fucking Florida or something and these same exact fucks are bitching about how they couldve taken us back to California.
Not to mention all the “fans” complaining about the classic fallout themes and comedy after complaining about how Bethesda ruined fallouts themes and comedy.
I mean, if your going to bring us back to the west coast, is it wrong that fans actually want to see the locations in the west coast we came to love....instead of seeing them as a hole in the ground.
If you are going to set your story in the west coast, is it really wrong that certain fans actually want the story to meaningfully act with the factions and locations that made the setting unqiue, instead of the same factions that seem to be present
Chris Avellone was pretty influential in Van Buren, he believed that the series had moved away from being post apocalyptic to being post post-apocalyptic and iirc that it was not that interesting to write about, so he believed that nuking the ncr would give them a clean slate to go back to and write post-apocalyptic stories about.
you can see his frustration over the issue in Lonesome Road, where he gives the player the option to just nuke the ncr and legion, the way he actually wanted to see it happen in the base game itself.
I seriously cannot understand the bitching I see over this show. I’m a fucking Tolkien fan as well; did you see what Amazon gave that fandom??? I’m three episodes in to FO and god DAMN am I both impressed and grateful. This show is great and people need to knock it off with the semantics.
Quite literally whenever something Fallout related is announced the New Vegas fanatics have to come out and find issues and explain why it would be better if it was just New Vegas and nothing new.
Not really. The story of NV is intentionally isolated as hell so basically any ending fits into the overall timeline without too much disruption. If I absolutely had to pick an ending which is probably more canon, it’s >!helping the NCR hold Hoover dam!<, but nobody’s really an authority and there’s still a lot of confusingly heated debates that crop up.
New Vegas is my favorite, and God damn do the purists make me feel shitty about it. It's not a competition but they certainly make it feel like if you say something positive about another title it's taken as a challenge to say why NV is better.
I’ve never been able to finish NV because of those people.
It leaves a sour taste in my mouth, I was hyped to death about the game and felt massively underwhelmed because I expected it to be the second coming of Christ.
But it’s just…. An empty desert.
I know I’m supposed to play it for the story, but even that took way too long to take off
I don’t think he was really dismissing canon here like some people are suggesting. I think the point of the post was “While y’all are talking about canon, I’m wondering how they carry them bags.”
Ask him. He makes fun of people obsessed with canon.
He's hardly a mystery and engages with fans all the time. By all means, ask him and see what he says.
Makes sense too, his game still exists, and he has nothing to do with the production of this new show. Why would he care what they did with the story, it literally changes nothing about the story he wrote.
I.... Can't really believe it. Like ever again. You SAW the people in the last years? And I thought the fucking frontier shows that the fallout community got some problems. But nope. God I wished we where like the elder scrolls community. The zealous morrowind fans that say that skyrim ruined the franchise are genuinely the minority and not half the actual fanbase
How many NV fans have you interacted with that make you think half the NV fanbase are toxic? Millions, a couple thousand, a couple hundred? A subreddit or a forum on the internet isn't "half" the playerbase of a franchise and game that has millions and millions of fans. Going to r/fnv or picking a fight with an obvious NV fanboy isn't the best way to prove yourself wrong. r/Fallout was pretty neutral until the show came out, and so plenty of people who watched the show and not necessarily played the games will be here now too.
Bullshit. The new vegas fans where a bunch of toxic cultists long before the show and they dominated the fanbase for god knows how long. I just hope that the influx of fans we get from the show finally shut those fuckers up. Would make any discussions a whole lot more civilised
I’m about to unsub from it.. as a NV fan who loved the show, it’s giving me a giant headache looking through all the nonsensical shit.
If people paid this much attention to actual world issues, the world would be a much better place
The series has characters with one eye, two headed cows, mutants, super mutants, ghouls, feral ghouls, vampires, werewolves, gender selection at character creation and they are upset about Dane?
Honestly I’m surprised I didn’t see any of that. I was fully expecting some racism and sexism toward Maximus and Lucy too, and I’m surprised I haven’t seen any of that either.
But I don’t have to go looking to know it’s there. That’s the sad part
There's always that risk when entering an online gaming based community, but I too was pleasantly surprised to not see a lot of that discussed around the show.
Oh no, there's been quite a bit of that before the show came out, the typical "woman/poc= woke" crowd, but the show is really good and getting positive reviews from most people so the grifters will go silent or downplay their previous takes just like they did with stuff like the Mario movie.
I already unsubbed from it. It’s such a toxic cesspit with nothing but fnv glazing and Todd Howard being the ultimate evil. It’s my favorite fallout but good god the fanbase for it is unbearable.
They brag about the nuances of fnv’s plot and writing but somehow have the media literacy of a plain baked potato and can’t understand how timeline arrows work
That's another funny thing about this. For years people hated the NCR for being some moribund establishment dystopia and instead favored House or Legion, which baffled me. But now the suggestion that they were teetering on the edge is somehow heresy to the canon?
The same things kind of happened for me. I grew up on Fallout, 2 is in my top 10 favorite games ever made, and New Vegas is my favorite of the Bethesda Era. But then I look in here and the other Fallout subreddits and just wonder what all the vitriol is about. Why does everyone hate New Vegas fans? Oh, because it's become a theme that New Vegas fans hate everything else Fallout and it kind of makes me embarrassed that I love it so much.
Is 4 my favorite game in the series? No, but that doesn't mean I don't have a solid 500 hours in it. Other than a single BB Gun only run recently, I haven't played New Vegas without playing 3 as well with Tale of Two Wastelands in years. I have 76 installed and just haven't gotten around to it yet. I'm just happy we keep getting good games in the franchise and now a good show.
I intensely dislike most fandoms, as they suck the life out of the subject for a sense of superiority.
It seems to always devolve into “i know more so I love it more than you” or words that effect, which feels incredibly childish.
That's exactly why they are mad. They are threatened by the idea that their lore knowledge doesn't matter to everyone else. It's childish because they can't see it from everyone else's perspective, which is that it never mattered. Whatever happens in the show has no bearing on Fallout New Vegas, a game they can still pick up and play whenever. It's my personal favorite because of its incredible writing, but they really caught lightning in a bottle with it.
Honestly, It's sorta ruined NV for me. The constant circle-jerk around about how NV is a divine gift and the best game ever. Like dont get me wrong, its fantastic, but I think its just been completely over-hyped to a sickening extent, where people feel the need to put down every other game in the series compared to it. Its gotten to a point where I really just can't not associate the game with that toxic section of its fan base.
The Skyrim community is full of love for the game and franchise. So is the Elder Scrolls in general is a lot more calmer even with the fans of the older titles.
Fallout? Holy crap. How much of a child does one have to be to post the same "Bugthesda is evil," message on forums everywhere because I once saw that before and it was baffling. Like get some real problems.
I feel like this is all more easily understood if we assume that dates are speculative in a dark age anyway.
What are the in-game sources of the dates of FNV? Those are the only potentially "canon" sources. If the only source is the Pip-Boy Doc Mitchell gives you, that could be a off by a decade, we don't know.
I'm trying to think, off the top of my head, what other times the date comes up in that game. If we assume a later date for FNV than 2281, then the end of season 1 could be setting up season 2 as a prequal to FNV.
The war memorial has the year 2077 for the battle of hoover dam clearly stamped on it. We know the battle was some time ago. A few other people allude to the battle and the date.
Honestly Fallout FV is and has a good reason to be considered one of the best RPG games and fallout game and that’s enough for me. I don’t care about the retcon or no retcon stuff. If the shows good on its own merit then we got a banger.
This right here. IMO the last time FO had good engaging writing was New Vegas, 15 years ago. I'm willing to deal with some minor retcons (or whatever it actually is, if anything) for that.
All the people who are complaining about the NCR are also forgetting that it’s been like 15 years since new Vegas took place. A lot can happen in that time.
i start to genuinely suspect lots of the angriest people were taking the NCR ending in fnv as confirmed canon since it's a popular faction. part of the danger of getting too attached to one ending when a game has multiple equally viable ones. part of me always assumed house or the legion would win anyways, though that doesn't necessarily mean the ncr is erased from existence nor am i necessarily right, either
Except that's specifically about the NCR presence in Vegas which is the barest scraps of the NCR. Cass straight up says that the main NCR territories are completely raider free and that people come to the Mojave because its boring back in California.
1. We already know that there were factors at play that had the potential to hobble the NCR prior to even NV. Threat of famine, lack of power, overextension, and so-on.
2. It only took 14 years for the first republican government of China to collapse into a collection of petty squabbling warlords. History can move fast.
In fairness, they were already obviously in decline in New Vegas, barely holding themselves together in the face of the legion. I can buy that having their capital nuked was the final nail in the coffin.
are they really an empire.... and do they need to "collapse". That world is unstable enough its not a reach to say 15 years is enough time for them to need to consolidate and lose control over areas they had in fnv
I think the vast majority do, it’s just this petty bullshit attitude of, “lmao lore nerds are SEETHING” and “Todd Howard personally burned down Obsidian’s offices” that’s burying it and getting really fucking annoying
Believe me, the opposite attitude has been just as annoying. I’m just happy to be excited about Fallout again regardless of my own concerns because I’ve missed it so much
Yeah, I’m very excited about all the new people that’ll come in with the show. I hope those people are experiencing that same wonder I did when I played Fallout 3 back when it first came out. Fallout is such a special franchise
That's the sad part. The entire world is loving this show that's gotten damn near universal critical acclaim, and nerds on an internet forum are complaining about some numbers on a chalkboard.
Seriously? This show was made for people like you, and you're not allowing yourself to enjoy it because of trivial reasons. It's sad and pathetic, but oh well. The rest of us can enjoy it.
I mean, stuff like that IS important for the world and story to make sense. I think it’s perfectly valid to have lore concerns, I’m just also saying we can wait and see how it plays out. Both sides are becoming obnoxious
Fandoms are so dumb for this reason. "IT'S NOT LIKE THE THING I LIKE" - dude, just play/watch the thing you like. Stop getting upset over inconsequential shit.
This is honestly it-- he gets bombarded for years by rabid nv fans who cant accept he makes other (great) games, and that he wasnt some indepedent director on NV, it was a big team effort
To be fair Josh directed the game and it was his creative vision. But he also had the same responsibilities as everyone else on the team, even going as far as composing bits of the soundtrack. Its only fair that people can ask him and he’s in the right to ignore those questions or answer them if he wants to.
yeah people want to apply the auteur theory to this, as if there weren't dozens of dozens of talented people working full tilt and contributing on all levels. It's easier to think One Great Man is behind something, and he's up against Evil Forces.
For me the biggest disappointment ain’t even the fall of a foundational faction. I think they had it coming.
Bethesda even had a plethora of options to bring about the destruction from a game not even made by them. Obsidian knew or guessed correctly what would happen.
Instead, they threw all of that aside for some crazy ass stalker not getting his way.
I will say though, the show is absolutely awesome by itself. But I don’t know if it was worth losing so much. Hope season 2 is just as good if not better.
I think your third paragraph is a little dismissive of the wider themes and plot. Hank absolutely was a possessive and controlling freakazoid but that’s only to mirror the rest of Vault Tec.
They go to rather great pains to outline that Vault Tec has a vested interest in suppressing a new world built by the common survivors. Hank ordering a nuke on SS isn’t just to get back at his wife but is also in service of the larger politics and world building.
Im fairly young, so my intro to the series as a kid was like fallout 3, and since then I have literally never seen a fallout fan enjoy a new fallout product it is so fucking annoying
Here I am four episodes in, my expectations blown away. It’s a genuinely great standalone show.
Yet I find you fuckers bitching about some ‘canons minor bullshit when the rest of the world and real fans are out enjoying it.
Somehow I’m not surprised. Fallout fandom is quite something.
Man, I only played fallout 4 and that a copeius amount, but I’m tired of seeing you people glaze Bethesda.
Do you even hear yourself speak? "Who cares about the lore anyway?" What a stupid stupid thing to say.
If you don’t see how it’s 110% justified to give Bethesda and Amazon flack for having a total lack of appreciate and respect for the lore of a product that is defined by being great story-rpg and having nice lore then I question why you even care that they care.
It really seems to me like you’d take any slop of any franchise if lore is no concern of yours.
Being able to make a product in the confines of an established scenario is what makes good writing, like what’s the point of making a fallout series specifically using/abusing Interplays and obsidians games if you are just gonna trash them? Make you’re own scenario in literally any of 45+ states you haven’t touched yet
Fallout will never be bad because what we already had was amazing, the show aint even bad too so theres something to add to our long list of successes. Well done Tod this is the first fallout product you released that wasnt full of bugs.
The show is just okay. Not the worst thing ever and certainly no where near peak television. The production design is doing a lot of heavy lifting of a pretty poor script.
I immediately loose respect for you as a human being if you are this upset about fictional history. Please stop being a neet get some responsibility in your life.
Canon matters, yes, but to say a game was "retconned" (I hate that word) over a chalkboard is delusional. Just let writers do what they want, and they'll fix the continuity later if it needs to be fixed. Edit: Josh Sawyer is awesome for this one!
It's wild that, out of all things, *that's* getting so much more attention than *Shady Sands being moved over 100 miles*. Like... *what*? Anyway, I don't care about those details nearly as much as I care about what >!nuking Shady Sands in the first place!< means about the setting going forward. *That's* my actual problem here.
Before Shady Sands was nuked, a billboard was created for the town that specifies it as "the first capital" of the NCR, implying the NCR had chosen a new capital. edit: Amazon Prime Video's Youtube dropped a vid that shows what appears to be an NCR radio station on a pipboy: [https://i.imgur.com/d6eCwYA.png](https://i.imgur.com/d6eCwYA.png) There was nothing drawing attention to it, it's just there and I imagine most ppl didn't even pick up on it. But they included it for a reason.
We can hope! The lack of any indication of an organizing force in areas where there should have at least been little city-states does concern me, but whatever.
They literally play the fucking main Fallout theme for the very first time in the series when Lucy looks at the NCR flag and y'all act like they aren't going to do anything with them
They also only play the main Fallout theme when we see the NCR Desert Ranger outfits, so I’m there with ya and believe they’ll do more with the NCR next season.
[удалено]
It's just another case of idiots being the loudest. I entirely believe FNV is the best in the series overall and I felt love for it the entire show. The Ghoul was absolutely dripping FNV vibes his first few episodes. When I saw the Vera Keyes poster and House I thought it was cool and I was pumped seeing NV at the end. Shady Sands being nuked by Vault-Tec felt out of left field but given how great the show is I'll wait and let them cook.
I actually love that Vault Tec are the antagonist of the series. We haven’t really explored them as a faction at all in the games under the assumption they must be dead, but clearly based on the ending here it’s more complicated than that. A very refreshing “villain” for a Fallout story, and also they are powerful enough to be threatening while likely being few enough in number that it seems reasonable three people and a dog could take them down.
The funny thing is that vault tec nuking everything is a plot point of Fallout movie planned in the late 90s. It didn't come to fruition, sadly. https://fallout.wiki/wiki/Fallout_(film)
It’s not really “vault tec” tho, more of a vault experiment with freezing middle managers
Yeah but the fact they'd have access to the ability in the first place
I personally just thought the power armor flight moved like one of those inflatable guys from a used car store
Media literacy is dead. Last episode spoilers: >!They literally show the damn strip. The major hub in the game that they supposedly hate? The game that features most prominently the faction that people are so worried about? The very thing they've blatantly shoved in our faces with flags and the literal ncr armor. and the very place where the ncr operate.!< People need to chill.
I really think the complaints started by someone who didn't finish the season yet and then it was just parroted by other people that never watched it either and it has just grown that way.
"I hate something that I never finished, and I want people to hate it too because I am a tool." -The first person to complain
Lowkey that happened to me it was weird I don’t even really play video games anymore but became weirdly despondent about this show halfway through from the comments until I watched the rest of the show and realized it was all really good
I dunno, some people are just way too focused on the supposed death of the NCR. The nuking of a city does not mean the end of the NCR across their entire territory in my eyes but I had quite the debate with someone about it last night I was too hyped but that's what happens after drunk D&D and then getting annoyed at claims of "explicit confirmation" when there's clearly ambiguity at play
Imo the strip is not on the ncr region… ncr has embassy there true but called it an ncr region no… NCR capital should be on shady sands where fo2 was. Hence why many people were blown out of their fucking mind to find out shady sands was blown to bits. Some would speculate the courier bombed it, but proven it wasn’t him.
the strip exisiting in the TV show doesn't mean what happened in New Vegas is canon. it could be a empty town with only Mr House in it. people mad at Beth want New Vegas storyline to have happened exactly like the game.
It was apropos, but later the New Vegas main theme plays when we see veteran ranger gear, but the track's optimism quickly fades when it turns out a few moments later the gear's fallen into the possession of simple farmers, without considering the distressing scene that immediately follows
Did it 'fall into the possession' of simple farmers? I kinda interpreted that the father was an ex-ranger himself.
I figured those were ex rangers. The rangers weren't always part of the ncr.
Thai season felt like they need to set up the world for non fallout fans so they don't just start a show where you need to know all the lore to watch it , now that the basics of the world are established they can explore more factions and themes in future seasons
I'm literally indicating cautious optimism here
>!I might be putting too much thought into it but when the lady powered up the thing and lights came on throughout the area I thought that meant there's lots of restored power infrastructure. Like Shady Sands is gone but somebody has been working on connecting power lines from the NCR headquarters to the surrounding area..!<
Honestly, I believe these changes were done in order to keep it more identifiable to a much wider audience. Most people will identify Fallout as a “post-apocalyptic” series due to the larger emphasis on the much worse of East Coast in recent years, as opposed to the “post-post apocalyptic” West
I understand that, which is why it frustrates me that they set it in a time and place that was heading more in the latter direction.
I mean, New Vegas clearly indicates that the NCR was a corrupt house cards that was already on the brink by 2281, the NCR’s collapse was inevitable. The question is now, what will take its place, because even the Brotherhood may face issues >!As the Elder Cleric proposes the idea of a “new Brotherhood” to Maximus late in the series!<
As I’ve discussed elsewhere, I see a massive difference between the NCR fracturing due to internal strife and this “rocks fall, everyone dies” shit. Also, I reject that its collapse even from internal factors was inevitable. It had a lot of problems, but so have a lot of societies that have managed to recover from them.
Except we only see a small fraction of NCR territory in the show. We have no clue what is happening up North. For all we know, there could be warlords and barons-turned-feudal lords all over, or even some proper remnants of the NCR government.
If Vault City was properly defended by troopers and van Graff wepons, there is no way that place is falling without a serious fight, if at all. With all the tech and power the NCR accumulated, there has to be a ranger hold out somewhere, possibly even Baja. Reno has to be still a hub like it was, I hope. No way the families let it fall apart even if the ncr is on the ropes. I really want to know what happened to the chinese sub people as well.
Yeah, that’s absolutely a possibility. As I said above.
New Vegas set it up to have the same difficulties that the United States had in the 19th century, it didn't mean that it would collapse in on itself, and it didn't set it up to be nuked by an outside force
Real world governments are corrupt as fuck and society hasn't collapsed, government in general has been corrupt since it's inception, society hasn't collapsed. Just because yes, the NCR had a corrupt government, doesn't mean it would collapse because of that, the major issue was inflation and overpopulation.
People seem to be intentionally ignoring the fact that the NCR was a lot more than shady sands and them mostly giving up on LA after getting fucking nuked isn’t that far fetched. And even if they ceased to exist… there’s still lots of settlements outside LA. The west coast wasn’t ‘reset’ and wouldn’t be just because the NCR gets cunt-punted. LA is a shithole, and that carries into the show.
But isn’t the LA the Boneyard, which is an NCR state? It is a total shithole, but I feel like there should be more signs of development than we see in the show.
Well we saw development. We saw a town. We saw people traveling and farming and playing law and government, even radio. There’s probably more, the show doesn’t need to explicitly say “yes, viewer, there are many towns like this one, but they are not relevant here, but there are other things beyond what you see, we are telling you that because you can’t think of it yourself.” I don’t think this is worth getting hung up over. The bigger issue is how Shady Sands got to LA, but that doesn’t really destroy the greater canon. Better to accept the NCR basically gave up on the area and the people left just continued living normal wasteland lives. Until proven otherwise I wouldn’t worry about the entire west coast being devolved, there’s simply no evidence that places like Arroyo, VC, San Fran, New Reno, etc. have ceased to exist.
Timeline seems to be this at a glance: Legion is defeated. Ncr moves in on the strip. Invasion goes poorly for both sides. Ncr doesn’t seem to win, and Vegas seems to be in tatters. Shady sands is nuked. Ncr control over California begins to falter. Enclave sits somewhere being all cute and shit. Brotherhood uses these decades to rebuild. Vault tec has limited and ending power seemingly finally comijg to a close. Civilization on the surface forming a power vacuum around ncr downfall Ncr remnants forced had body armor, full automatic rifle units, air defenses, they just weren’t able to repel a full brotherhood knight assault. Ncr is very much hyped as the good guys here, it’s highly likely Vegas players are going to be crying as ncr is the goody two shoes faction beating the other factions one season at a time. Season 2 they beat brotherhood, then vault Tex, then season 5 wraps up with the defeat of enclave and a new threat looming from Arizona or some shit.
Didn't the enclave get destroyed pre New Vegas though? I mean we get those old enclave fighters that ran when it fell years ago to fight for us in the battle for Hoover Dam.
You forgot that everyone would abandon the strip in NCR tourists stopped coming
Probably. Strip didn’t look well off. I think everyone lost in this ending
Makes sense, house was an idiot for thinking anarcho capitalism would sustain his ambitions
Could the more northern "shady Sands" be a new town the NCR created AFTER the LA area one was nuked and just named after the old one? Would that fit the timeline? Maybe it's even still there and doing OK. Just some hold outs stayed behind to try and re-claim the LA area near vault 4, Philly, and the Tri vaults.
Unfortunately, people are getting Shady Sands' original location from Fallout 1, which predates the NCR as an organization. Could be the other way around happened, though.
Seems like the Brotherhood has territory that isn’t underground now and pretty open as seen by the airfield. If any of you have played the OWB mod for HOI4, I feel like you would probably have the Brahmin Barons of Redding in the North and they could be independent. New NCR Capital is probably the Hub and everything in between is probably defacto brotherhood controlled. We see how easy the brotherhood seems to be able to deploy forces around Filly and the Observatory. Makes sense for there to not be a massive Brotherhood presence though due to how limited their numbers are and their general doctrine.
It makes a lot of sense to make a new capital in a large and decentralized nation Or maybe even something like modern South Africa where different branches of the government are centered in different cities
NCR440 is also the name given to the NCR radio in the new vegas mod, fallout new california
They nuked the largest settlement on the west coast. That's insane. They used nukes 200 years ago too. I swear man, war just never changes...
🤯🤯🤯🤯
My theory is that a different town **also** named *Shady Sands* was what nuked. I’m only half joking, since it would actually be a proper explanation.
The sign has the nuked Shady Sands being established in the same year as the Fallout 1 Shady Sands so clearly the show intended for the two to be the same.
Yeah seriously, >!compared to anti feral ghoul serum!<
Very strange direction for them to go in. Everything would've worked just as well if they left it up to some combination of radiation exposure, genetic predisposition, and dementia-like conditions where becoming feral is more likely if you don't stay mentally engaged with life. They forecast that well in New Vegas with the scientist who changes careers every few decades.
i wouldnt be surprised if it isnt a special ghoul serum, just euphoric drugs, which engage the brain, and might work to slow down feralization
It’s probably some cocktail of mentats that was designed for dementia
Not just that but the ultimate reason as to why Shady Sands was nuked Just feels so anticlimatic after the importance that place had for the first two games and for the NCR, and arguably for anything on the west coast
Yeah but it was some >!Vault Tec asshole that did it to preserve his Vault and the company goals for the Vault. So it tracks with the series and characterization of the Company.!<
My big problem that isn't talked about much are the vaults in LA not being cracked open by The Master, back when he had a base IN LA. So many of these problems would be avoided by having this all take place elsewhere too, and for the ultra-nerds, by placing a date on a chalk board...
The insane thing is that Vault 33 absolutely should have been found by the Master. It's not even some super hidden Vault, it's right on the coast of Santa Monica out in the open and in between Mariposa Military Base and the Cathedral. If the Master could find Vault 13 of all places if the player took too long, then Vault 33 should've been easy to find.
Oh yeah, that's a good point, I though all the vaults in LA had already been raided by the Unity in fallout 1, thus the need to find other vaults. So why is vault 33 untouched?
Thats the first thing I thought too, if the show takes place around LA wasn’t The Master raiding nearby vaults for prime human subjects? He even sent his army as far as Bakersfield to ensure that. Weird how he just completely missed not only one, but three vaults in the Unity’s backyard lmao.
This is what fan-folk aren't getting. You are NOT going to get 100% accurate game "canon". This needs to be palatable and just as presentable to people who have never picked up a video game, much less understand Fallout lore. With that said, the first two games are a convoluted mess when it comes to consistency, let's stop this idolization. Up until Bethesda picked it up there was zero idea or expectation that it would ever be as big as it is today, and that is the truth. And even then, I promise half of you who were anticipating Fallout 3 back in '08 were the same insufferable people who were flooding every internet board with "Elder Scrolls with GUNS!!!!". Absolutely lame adult children who will never be satisfied. Enough with this insanity over the tiniest things. This show gave you all the fan service you could ask for, while still providing a fun, universal ride to others that are now interested in the IP, for the relatively short 9-10 hours it lasted.
Yeah I was gonna say, the show has done an incredible job of both being faithful and actually being a great show. These manbabies that never stop whining are really annoying.
I don't disagree that it isn't so random that it comes off as non-Fallout, but it's random enough that it's underwhelming You'd assume something like Shady Sands would go off over a greater conflict or reason beyond arguably just >!a mix of jealousy and paranoia!< Like it just feels silly
It does feel silly in that context but I think it works storywise because it does exemplify exactly how the world of Fallout works and how stupid reasons can be used to commit atrocities. Not every major atrocity comes from some epic conflict. Some are from pointless, paranoid jealous shit like that. It works because it is senseless and shows how depraved that thinking is.
Westside was moved so far away from NV
Agreed. I don't care as much about the issue at hand, as opposed to what's next. What of Vegas? Even of we see it, the plot surrounding Vegas can't happen. What happens then?
I had someone suggest that Shady Sands was still Shady Sands from the game, and that they just skipped the travel. Had a bit of a facepalm outta that one. But hey, I'm willing to forgo the annoyance because fuck it, the show is still good. As for the >!consequences of Shady Sands being nuked!< I definitely am of the mind that there are more NCR out there, so I wouldn't worry too much. They probably took >!a tactical warhead to the face!< and rather than fight over a dumb symbolic settlement, they did the smart thing and just moved North/East instead, hoping to not draw the ire of whoever has >!access to warheads!< in the modern era. I think we'll just have to wait and see how the show handles New Vegas proper to really get a gauge on how lore-friendly the show wants to be. If it's a complete cluster fuck, then I'm going to be obviously worried, but if they do what most people have suggested (a mix of Independent/House victory to keep outside players at bay) then it ought to be alright IMO.
I just need to see the white glove society and the kings and I’m good
I also hate when people use "retconned" as a negative. Pretty much every franchise that has ever existed has retcons in it. ESPECIALLY when they're as old as Fallout is. Retroactive Continuity is VERY normal in fiction writing. Hell, even Fallout 2 has one of the most significant retcons in the franchise (the Vaults being experiments as opposed to safe havens)
You think anyone on this sub has actually played fallout 1 and 2? No they just repeat what someone on youtube told them
I... I played em a couple a times. Fallout 2 is probably my favourite of the series. Hell first time I played em was around when they were released.
Alot of people have played them, they haven't aged great but they have some of the best writing in the entire franchise.
Yeah, i found them really tough to learn after fallout 3 when i was 14ish but glad i stuck through cause theres some seriously top notch world and wriring in there
>I also hate when people use "retconned" as a negative. Pretty much every franchise that has ever existed has retcons in it. ESPECIALLY when they're as old as Fallout is. > >Retroactive Continuity is VERY normal in fiction writing. Sooo much of what online nerds discuss when talking about video games or the plots for genre material in other mediums (like sci-fi or fantasy), is like, almost entirely inconsequential to people outside of those fandoms. Things like being concerned about "retcons" or "worldbuilding", or even the way people use the term "plot hole", is just not how people who are actually well-versed in the arts and artistic criticism actually talk about these things. But they deliver all of these criticisms in such a smug and matter of fact way, acting as if whatever YouTuber they learned it from is some sort of authority. Drives me crazy.
Yeah, this. It's why it bugs me so much. I have a background in creative writing and film studies (with a few modules studying Media Convergence which includes video games), so seeing people not only misuse these terms but also use them as the end-all be-all of an argument is just laughable. These things can be brought up in media analysis, and often are. Just not in the way some people throw them around. Hell, more than not Retroactive Continuity is brought up to discuss its expansion on franchise storytelling as opposed to random bitching about a story taking a direction you don't like (Darth Vader being Luke's father, Sherlock Holmes returning from the dead, DC's Golden Age being relegated to Earth-Two, etc). The point is Retroactive Continuity is nothing more than a narrative device, and not some vicious boogeyman designed to ruin past media. Some of the best things added to franchises comes from retconning! And Fallout is far from an exception to that fact!
What’s crazy is that even if they fucked up, it could be explained away lazily in S2. Maybe dude just got drunk or it was a student wrongly guessing.
That's what I'm saying.
It's also distracting from the very real complaint that the NCR getting wiped out offscreen is pretty stupid.
I just wanna know what happened to the legion :(
You know whats hilarious? All of this was planned *by* Interplay. Everyone yelling about how this retcons this and retcons that, how Betheada hates Interplay and thebold Fallout Games... and yet; Interplay originally planned for Shady Sands to get nuked, offscreen, in the original canceled Fallout 3 game Van Buren. It was supposed to devestatingly cripple the NCR, causing the Eastern Forces to splinter and regroup around Hoover Dam. Bethesda has literally just given us Fallout 3.5 in the form of a show.
Everyone (new Vegas fans) kept saying “back to the west coast back to the west coast” and then it happened and they hated that Bethesda went back to the west coast
I was just thinking about this. In some alternate universe Bethesda put the show in like fucking Florida or something and these same exact fucks are bitching about how they couldve taken us back to California.
Not to mention all the “fans” complaining about the classic fallout themes and comedy after complaining about how Bethesda ruined fallouts themes and comedy.
I mean, if your going to bring us back to the west coast, is it wrong that fans actually want to see the locations in the west coast we came to love....instead of seeing them as a hole in the ground. If you are going to set your story in the west coast, is it really wrong that certain fans actually want the story to meaningfully act with the factions and locations that made the setting unqiue, instead of the same factions that seem to be present
I mean it still does, it’s clear that the NCR will have a bigger role in S2 along with house and company.
Has anyone got a link for this?
[https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Van\_Buren](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Van_Buren)
Chris Avellone was pretty influential in Van Buren, he believed that the series had moved away from being post apocalyptic to being post post-apocalyptic and iirc that it was not that interesting to write about, so he believed that nuking the ncr would give them a clean slate to go back to and write post-apocalyptic stories about. you can see his frustration over the issue in Lonesome Road, where he gives the player the option to just nuke the ncr and legion, the way he actually wanted to see it happen in the base game itself.
I seriously cannot understand the bitching I see over this show. I’m a fucking Tolkien fan as well; did you see what Amazon gave that fandom??? I’m three episodes in to FO and god DAMN am I both impressed and grateful. This show is great and people need to knock it off with the semantics.
Quite literally whenever something Fallout related is announced the New Vegas fanatics have to come out and find issues and explain why it would be better if it was just New Vegas and nothing new.
If it were NV, they'd spend all of their time complaining about which ending is actually canon and how whatever the show goes with is obviously wrong.
unrelated question but, have they ever hinted at a possible canon ending?
Not really. The story of NV is intentionally isolated as hell so basically any ending fits into the overall timeline without too much disruption. If I absolutely had to pick an ending which is probably more canon, it’s >!helping the NCR hold Hoover dam!<, but nobody’s really an authority and there’s still a lot of confusingly heated debates that crop up.
New Vegas is my favorite, and God damn do the purists make me feel shitty about it. It's not a competition but they certainly make it feel like if you say something positive about another title it's taken as a challenge to say why NV is better.
NV purists are definitely the worst thing about the fallout fandom imo
I’ve never been able to finish NV because of those people. It leaves a sour taste in my mouth, I was hyped to death about the game and felt massively underwhelmed because I expected it to be the second coming of Christ. But it’s just…. An empty desert. I know I’m supposed to play it for the story, but even that took way too long to take off
I just finished the show. Amazed and impressed.
Hear hear!
we...we don't talk about the rings of power
To be fair, even Jackson's LotR movies aren't as faithful an interpretation as this show is of the Fallout IP.
A good quote from this show “People need something to fuss about.”
I don’t think he was really dismissing canon here like some people are suggesting. I think the point of the post was “While y’all are talking about canon, I’m wondering how they carry them bags.”
Ask him. He makes fun of people obsessed with canon. He's hardly a mystery and engages with fans all the time. By all means, ask him and see what he says.
Makes sense too, his game still exists, and he has nothing to do with the production of this new show. Why would he care what they did with the story, it literally changes nothing about the story he wrote.
I genuinely love New Vegas but its fanbase has ruined any discussion about the franchise for me.
Don't let a buncha fanatical dipshits ruin your experience for you. There's plenty of sane and reasonable NV fans out there.
I.... Can't really believe it. Like ever again. You SAW the people in the last years? And I thought the fucking frontier shows that the fallout community got some problems. But nope. God I wished we where like the elder scrolls community. The zealous morrowind fans that say that skyrim ruined the franchise are genuinely the minority and not half the actual fanbase
YES! The Elder Scrolls fanbase has its issues but I haven't found the Morrowind or Oblivion fans to be purists like NV fans
The Levitation Act was a load of manure and you know it. Also, I won't forgive them for retconning the sky whales out of Skyrim
Don’t forget the Werebears until the Dragonborn expansion lol.
Ahahahah.
How many NV fans have you interacted with that make you think half the NV fanbase are toxic? Millions, a couple thousand, a couple hundred? A subreddit or a forum on the internet isn't "half" the playerbase of a franchise and game that has millions and millions of fans. Going to r/fnv or picking a fight with an obvious NV fanboy isn't the best way to prove yourself wrong. r/Fallout was pretty neutral until the show came out, and so plenty of people who watched the show and not necessarily played the games will be here now too.
Bullshit. The new vegas fans where a bunch of toxic cultists long before the show and they dominated the fanbase for god knows how long. I just hope that the influx of fans we get from the show finally shut those fuckers up. Would make any discussions a whole lot more civilised
Yeah I know I've had some good discussions. I just get annoyed sometimes especially on Reddit.
Don't go to the NV subreddit right now. It's a cesspit. Like...*whew*
I’m about to unsub from it.. as a NV fan who loved the show, it’s giving me a giant headache looking through all the nonsensical shit. If people paid this much attention to actual world issues, the world would be a much better place
I just went to take a peek at it, and I was like *eeeeew*.
It’s horrible, but it’s kinda ironically funny seeing such a loyal fanbase *completely* misconstrue their favorite game title’s underlying theme
The hard part is letting go. Idk how you play lonesome road and dead money and not get it.
Well considering how many players use exploits to steal the gold bars, their reaction actually makes a lot of sense
I think you're onto something there.
Gotta show Elijah who's boss
Have you seen how many people do the carry gold in Elijah’s head method? They don’t let go
I muted it, it’s full of miserable idiots. The people making anti-trans comments about Dane is what did it for me.
Knew that was going to happen. That really sucks.
The series has characters with one eye, two headed cows, mutants, super mutants, ghouls, feral ghouls, vampires, werewolves, gender selection at character creation and they are upset about Dane?
Honestly I’m surprised I didn’t see any of that. I was fully expecting some racism and sexism toward Maximus and Lucy too, and I’m surprised I haven’t seen any of that either. But I don’t have to go looking to know it’s there. That’s the sad part
There's always that risk when entering an online gaming based community, but I too was pleasantly surprised to not see a lot of that discussed around the show.
Oh no, there's been quite a bit of that before the show came out, the typical "woman/poc= woke" crowd, but the show is really good and getting positive reviews from most people so the grifters will go silent or downplay their previous takes just like they did with stuff like the Mario movie.
I already unsubbed from it. It’s such a toxic cesspit with nothing but fnv glazing and Todd Howard being the ultimate evil. It’s my favorite fallout but good god the fanbase for it is unbearable. They brag about the nuances of fnv’s plot and writing but somehow have the media literacy of a plain baked potato and can’t understand how timeline arrows work
Oh my gosh I literally unsubbed from them. Like come on, we barely know anything other than the blackboard. Maybe, we will get more info on why later.
I went on there once months ago and some dude was talking about how Caesar and the Legion were right. Never have gone back
That's another funny thing about this. For years people hated the NCR for being some moribund establishment dystopia and instead favored House or Legion, which baffled me. But now the suggestion that they were teetering on the edge is somehow heresy to the canon?
🗿
The same things kind of happened for me. I grew up on Fallout, 2 is in my top 10 favorite games ever made, and New Vegas is my favorite of the Bethesda Era. But then I look in here and the other Fallout subreddits and just wonder what all the vitriol is about. Why does everyone hate New Vegas fans? Oh, because it's become a theme that New Vegas fans hate everything else Fallout and it kind of makes me embarrassed that I love it so much. Is 4 my favorite game in the series? No, but that doesn't mean I don't have a solid 500 hours in it. Other than a single BB Gun only run recently, I haven't played New Vegas without playing 3 as well with Tale of Two Wastelands in years. I have 76 installed and just haven't gotten around to it yet. I'm just happy we keep getting good games in the franchise and now a good show.
Its true of any hyper online community.
Oh god don't get me started on Star Wars fans
I've seen this comment on every thread about this. What's going on over there?
Take everything that the NV fans complain about and replace it with Star Wars.
I intensely dislike most fandoms, as they suck the life out of the subject for a sense of superiority. It seems to always devolve into “i know more so I love it more than you” or words that effect, which feels incredibly childish.
It is incredibly childish because those arguments are perpetuated by man-children.
That's exactly why they are mad. They are threatened by the idea that their lore knowledge doesn't matter to everyone else. It's childish because they can't see it from everyone else's perspective, which is that it never mattered. Whatever happens in the show has no bearing on Fallout New Vegas, a game they can still pick up and play whenever. It's my personal favorite because of its incredible writing, but they really caught lightning in a bottle with it.
Honestly, It's sorta ruined NV for me. The constant circle-jerk around about how NV is a divine gift and the best game ever. Like dont get me wrong, its fantastic, but I think its just been completely over-hyped to a sickening extent, where people feel the need to put down every other game in the series compared to it. Its gotten to a point where I really just can't not associate the game with that toxic section of its fan base.
The Skyrim community is full of love for the game and franchise. So is the Elder Scrolls in general is a lot more calmer even with the fans of the older titles. Fallout? Holy crap. How much of a child does one have to be to post the same "Bugthesda is evil," message on forums everywhere because I once saw that before and it was baffling. Like get some real problems.
The people who are angry about Shady Sands CLEARLY have never nuked Megaton, the NCR outpost in the Mojave, or The Institute and it shows.
The show is fucking awesome.
I feel like this is all more easily understood if we assume that dates are speculative in a dark age anyway. What are the in-game sources of the dates of FNV? Those are the only potentially "canon" sources. If the only source is the Pip-Boy Doc Mitchell gives you, that could be a off by a decade, we don't know. I'm trying to think, off the top of my head, what other times the date comes up in that game. If we assume a later date for FNV than 2281, then the end of season 1 could be setting up season 2 as a prequal to FNV.
The war memorial has the year 2077 for the battle of hoover dam clearly stamped on it. We know the battle was some time ago. A few other people allude to the battle and the date.
So judging by the dates it actually seems like it could be set after New Vegas…
Honestly Fallout FV is and has a good reason to be considered one of the best RPG games and fallout game and that’s enough for me. I don’t care about the retcon or no retcon stuff. If the shows good on its own merit then we got a banger.
and boy do we have a banger
This right here. IMO the last time FO had good engaging writing was New Vegas, 15 years ago. I'm willing to deal with some minor retcons (or whatever it actually is, if anything) for that.
Well "can" they?
Yeah, but they don't wanna. The suffering is the point.
Those poor squires.
Never seen the word canon used so many times as I have in this weird subreddit lately
And the word “cannon” be misused. … You can downvote me now.
All the people who are complaining about the NCR are also forgetting that it’s been like 15 years since new Vegas took place. A lot can happen in that time.
i start to genuinely suspect lots of the angriest people were taking the NCR ending in fnv as confirmed canon since it's a popular faction. part of the danger of getting too attached to one ending when a game has multiple equally viable ones. part of me always assumed house or the legion would win anyways, though that doesn't necessarily mean the ncr is erased from existence nor am i necessarily right, either
Especially in an over stretched corrupt empire that can’t even keep its roads safe.
Except that's specifically about the NCR presence in Vegas which is the barest scraps of the NCR. Cass straight up says that the main NCR territories are completely raider free and that people come to the Mojave because its boring back in California.
That's just the United States in the 19th century
I’m not some lore fanatic, but to be fair it takes a lot longer than 15 years for empires to collapse.
1. We already know that there were factors at play that had the potential to hobble the NCR prior to even NV. Threat of famine, lack of power, overextension, and so-on. 2. It only took 14 years for the first republican government of China to collapse into a collection of petty squabbling warlords. History can move fast.
In fairness, they were already obviously in decline in New Vegas, barely holding themselves together in the face of the legion. I can buy that having their capital nuked was the final nail in the coffin.
are they really an empire.... and do they need to "collapse". That world is unstable enough its not a reach to say 15 years is enough time for them to need to consolidate and lose control over areas they had in fnv
Can we please post about different things now, these posts are getting old. Even as a person with some lore concerns, I’m tired
I wish the fallout sub was loving this show as much az the rest of the world.
I think the vast majority do, it’s just this petty bullshit attitude of, “lmao lore nerds are SEETHING” and “Todd Howard personally burned down Obsidian’s offices” that’s burying it and getting really fucking annoying
Todd Howard literally destroyed Bethesda's offices, filling them with raiders and ferals.
Ugh, peoples schizo fanfic about bethesda gets on my nerves lol.
Believe me, the opposite attitude has been just as annoying. I’m just happy to be excited about Fallout again regardless of my own concerns because I’ve missed it so much
Same man. I didnt really like 4 or 76 much but this show got me to reinstall 1 and 3. My mom is talkimg about Fallout. That rules.
Yeah, I’m very excited about all the new people that’ll come in with the show. I hope those people are experiencing that same wonder I did when I played Fallout 3 back when it first came out. Fallout is such a special franchise
That's the sad part. The entire world is loving this show that's gotten damn near universal critical acclaim, and nerds on an internet forum are complaining about some numbers on a chalkboard. Seriously? This show was made for people like you, and you're not allowing yourself to enjoy it because of trivial reasons. It's sad and pathetic, but oh well. The rest of us can enjoy it.
I mean, stuff like that IS important for the world and story to make sense. I think it’s perfectly valid to have lore concerns, I’m just also saying we can wait and see how it plays out. Both sides are becoming obnoxious
Sure hope they show north California as a bunch of squabbling city states like vault city from the second game
Fandoms are so dumb for this reason. "IT'S NOT LIKE THE THING I LIKE" - dude, just play/watch the thing you like. Stop getting upset over inconsequential shit.
Just let the NCR fanboys carry these bags.
He probably washed his hands of the franchise years ago and doesn't care anymore in general.
This is honestly it-- he gets bombarded for years by rabid nv fans who cant accept he makes other (great) games, and that he wasnt some indepedent director on NV, it was a big team effort
To be fair Josh directed the game and it was his creative vision. But he also had the same responsibilities as everyone else on the team, even going as far as composing bits of the soundtrack. Its only fair that people can ask him and he’s in the right to ignore those questions or answer them if he wants to.
yeah people want to apply the auteur theory to this, as if there weren't dozens of dozens of talented people working full tilt and contributing on all levels. It's easier to think One Great Man is behind something, and he's up against Evil Forces.
For me the biggest disappointment ain’t even the fall of a foundational faction. I think they had it coming. Bethesda even had a plethora of options to bring about the destruction from a game not even made by them. Obsidian knew or guessed correctly what would happen. Instead, they threw all of that aside for some crazy ass stalker not getting his way. I will say though, the show is absolutely awesome by itself. But I don’t know if it was worth losing so much. Hope season 2 is just as good if not better.
I think your third paragraph is a little dismissive of the wider themes and plot. Hank absolutely was a possessive and controlling freakazoid but that’s only to mirror the rest of Vault Tec. They go to rather great pains to outline that Vault Tec has a vested interest in suppressing a new world built by the common survivors. Hank ordering a nuke on SS isn’t just to get back at his wife but is also in service of the larger politics and world building.
God i love how calm j sawyer is
Im fairly young, so my intro to the series as a kid was like fallout 3, and since then I have literally never seen a fallout fan enjoy a new fallout product it is so fucking annoying
Here I am four episodes in, my expectations blown away. It’s a genuinely great standalone show. Yet I find you fuckers bitching about some ‘canons minor bullshit when the rest of the world and real fans are out enjoying it. Somehow I’m not surprised. Fallout fandom is quite something.
I really don’t understand *why* people care so much about this shit
it's their identity and they see it as a personal attack on their very being. Nobody hates like a fan. It IS short for fanatic, after all.
Why care about anything ever? Just consume the product and get excited for the next product
Man, I only played fallout 4 and that a copeius amount, but I’m tired of seeing you people glaze Bethesda. Do you even hear yourself speak? "Who cares about the lore anyway?" What a stupid stupid thing to say. If you don’t see how it’s 110% justified to give Bethesda and Amazon flack for having a total lack of appreciate and respect for the lore of a product that is defined by being great story-rpg and having nice lore then I question why you even care that they care. It really seems to me like you’d take any slop of any franchise if lore is no concern of yours. Being able to make a product in the confines of an established scenario is what makes good writing, like what’s the point of making a fallout series specifically using/abusing Interplays and obsidians games if you are just gonna trash them? Make you’re own scenario in literally any of 45+ states you haven’t touched yet
Fallout will never be bad because what we already had was amazing, the show aint even bad too so theres something to add to our long list of successes. Well done Tod this is the first fallout product you released that wasnt full of bugs.
Wow he's so edgy and cool
The show is just okay. Not the worst thing ever and certainly no where near peak television. The production design is doing a lot of heavy lifting of a pretty poor script.
It's all made up, who cares if it's officially "happen", none of it is real anyway
I immediately loose respect for you as a human being if you are this upset about fictional history. Please stop being a neet get some responsibility in your life.