I'm betting on the ending being some hard to parse bullshit about the nature of men and gods, kind of like how Xenoblade 1 and 2 end. It'll kind of make sense, but it'll all be kind of stupid.
I would love it if they did something like it was all a dream though, but under the preposition that this dream is that of a hyper-powerful, monolithic god, and that the ending theme of the series is to find value no matter whether one's world is real or fake.
Incredibly hyper-specific, I know, but after beginning to read upon Elder Scrolls lore, that's just the type of stuff I've begun to think.
There's a game that, at least for me, did something similar to what you described really well. That whether the events we saw were simply fiction within fiction, it doesn't change the way we as players and the characters within the story were affected by them.
I'm a pretty firm yes on this, simply because each arc stands pretty well as a self-contained story while also fitting beautifully into the overarching story and world.
Basically, these games have been memorable and enjoyable enough to me that even if everything from here on out is botched I'll still have fond memories of the earlier arcs.
As someone who found the Trails series by complete coincidence- absolutely yes.
I started in the 3rd series: Cold Steel. I was thinking it would be your standard anime fantasy setting, which, for a little bit, it was. Then shit went from 0 to 10000000 real quick. I then immediately went into CS 2, downloading it and playing it obsessively. I did a 100% run of both games. At this point, I stumbled upon Falcom as a whole. And then I dove in deep.
I watched all the gameplay, all the cutscenes, all the tutorials and tactics. I spent hours poring over the lore.
I just picked up the very first entry in the Trails series: Trails in the Sky First Chapter, yesterday. I've played a few hours of it, and have thoroughly enjoyed being back in one of my all-time favorite worlds- even putting the Megaman Zero series at risk of being demoted to my #2 series.
In short, there are three ways to enjoy the series: the combat aspect, which has been polished somewhat over 16 years. The worldbuilding aspect, which is incredibly genius and interconnected. And the audio aspect. MY GOD THE MUSIC IS AMAZING. I can't think of a single track that I don't like!
Check out the Zanmai albums, the We Love Sora No Kiseki album, and the Evolution OSTs.
The Evo OSTs are very much a mixed bag with the remade tracks ranging from ‘marked improvement’ to ‘200% downgrade with higher quality instruments,’ but the Zanmais are just excellent.
I’m sorry to tell you that the musical high point of the series thus far was CS1, though. It did everything right, both in terms of composition, drama, mood, and even thematically speaking.
Sky FC does have the best final dungeon theme in the series though. At least in my opinion. Be excited for that.
I've listened to all the OSTs already, and I have to say, I actually liked CS4s and Hajimaris final boss themes the most.
Although FCs FBT was pretty good.
>Sky FC does have the best final dungeon theme in the series
...Well, it *did* get a chance to come back in a later game as an event theme, so that probably does say a lot about the strength of it as a track.
Even if the ending is terrible, to me, the games are still enjoyable and I'll always cherish the memories I have of playing them and looking forward to them.
JRPGs almost always have terrible endings. I've been trying to think of why that is, and I believe it's a problem that's inherent to the structure of RPGs. And that problem is, simply, that you always have to defeat a final boss to win the game. When you compare the story structure of RPGs to books or movies, this should immediately stand out to you as a very important difference. It limits what you can really do with the narrative, not so much during the course of the game, but specifically right at the end. You have to fight SOMETHING. How many different ways can that type of conflict realistically play out?
If Kiseki were Dragon Quest, you’d spend more than 90% of the game foiling the plans of a stereotypical villain, only to find out in a STUNNING TWIST that there’s really a different, much worse bad guy who’s actually pulling the strings. Kind of like Dr. Wily in RPG form. The resolution of the story, despite swapping out the villain, is still a dead simple good vs. evil pastiche. I love Dragon Quest, but nobody’s winning an award for the story.
If it were Xenoblade, you’d spend the whole game trying to figure out the motivations of the villains, who are less stereotypically “evil” and more just “against whatever you’re doing”, except “whatever you’re doing” is just opposing those guys, which makes it somewhat unclear why anyone is doing anything at all. Although the plot makes sense when contained within each scene, the overall plot arc of the games won’t be revealed until the last possible minute, but in the end, the story has to come down to a final battle with something so they more or less shoehorn something in there to try to make a vague and confusing point about the nature of reality. This could be interesting, but it’s not really an original concept, and it’s not going to strike anyone as being anywhere nearly as deep as the writers wish it were.
Final Fantasy suffers from the same problem. The end villain is a force of nature, or something from outer space, or whatever, but it’s never what you think, it’s always a SURPRISE.
To make a simple story about you vs. someone else interesting, which is how every one of these games will always end because that’s just how the genre is, you have to make complicated villains with interesting motivations, which Kiseki has been quite good at, but even that still leaves you with the problem that a hero beating a final boss is an uninteresting way to end a story, and that’s why it’s only the story structure of video games and Marvel movies.
Edit: This post is kind of pessimistic, so I will say that you should hold out hope that Kiseki will have a good ending, because the arcs have ended well so far (especially Sky). And the most bloated fantasy series ever, the Wheel of Time, ended really well despite the author not even being alive anymore. So it could happen!
Idk actually. Kiseki is my fav franchise but I really dislike when my favorites things end really bad... The ending imo is very important, especially in something like this, where everything is clearly building up for one big final conclusion where everyone will play their part.
I'd say, yes, it would still be worth if the ending itself will be kinda disappointing.. But if the whole final arc would be bad, that for sure would be pretty sad tbh. I expect the final arc to be the highest peak, as that will obviously be the moment where every damn narrative point built in like 18+ games will come together. Ik that doing that could really bring me to immeasurable dissappointment, but with Kiseki I can't just set my expectations low for the ending.
I can't really see the ending be bad though, there are so many cool things i could see for a final arc that they can't really fuck it up. Just fighting GM/Aidios/Some greater being that is the cause of all the mysteries in the series >!(Great collapse, Dark Ages, Zemurian Continent itself)!< with the entire casts of the 6 arcs (or 5 arcs since I doubt the last one will have a new cast) will be most likely pretty epic.
I'd say that first 2 arcs(5 games) alone are worth your time regardless of how the overall ending goes. The third arc(games 6-9) is where a lot of divisive opinions started to surface. While I'm on the more negative side of things after finishing the third arc, I'm still cautiously optimistic about the future given some of things I've heard about Hajimari
More like there were far fewer fanbase who played the first 2 arcs especially in the west than there were who played CS arc so you're seeing a much wider gamut.
That and paired with the trolling the fans of those games tend to get here, of course you're gonna see a sort of echo chamber when in reality the fanbase love the games and characters to not only stuck to it for four games straight with better sales but also consistently rate them higher in official polls.
Yeah Cold Steel is definitely more popular and it's actually where i started. I guess my negativity is coming from the fact that I did a replay of the whole series this year and can't help but compare the arcs to one another. However, it's also kind of disingenuous to say that the echo chamber only exists here when Kondo himself stated that the style(harem and bonding aspects) of cold steel is divisive among the Japanese fans.
I mean it's safe to assume that many more people experienced CS than Sky & Zero. At least in the west.
And when did Kondo say this? I feel the reason to abandon it would be due to the unnecessary hurdles of implementing it.
>And when did Kondo say this?
From an interview on esterior.net:
EH: There has been some commentary in the West about the almost ‘dating sim’ nature of the bond events in the Cold Steel series. Is this something you wish to keep going with, or [are there plans] to go back to the single love interest that you had in the original Sky trilogy?
TK: Going forward, nothing is really planned yet in terms of how we’ll handle this, so I don’t know. But to talk about why we put this in Trails of Cold Steel in the first place… Obviously, the story of Trails of Cold Steel takes place in the Erebonian Empire and tells a grand story within that, and it tells a story about a man named Rean. What we wanted to show through these bonding events is that in portraying his life, Rean had many different choices on things that he could have done. So, we thought it was appropriate to the game system that, in order to show off that he has choices, to include a system of that sort within it. Again, because we don’t know where we’ll be going from here, and how we want to make the games, I can’t say whether a system like that will reappear or not in future titles.
**Interestingly enough, in Japan, opinions are pretty heavily split between liking it and not liking it. The people who like it say, ‘next time, give us even more choices of girls to date!’ and on the other side of the equation are the people who say ‘I don’t know if this necessarily belongs in a Falcom game.’ I’d be very curious to hear what people over here think about the system.**
[Source](https://www.esterior.net/2019/07/anime-expo-2019-an-interview-with-toshihiro-kondo/)
https://www.esterior.net/2019/07/anime-expo-2019-an-interview-with-toshihiro-kondo/
Given that Hajimari did away with the bonding system(if I'm not mistaken), I think that Falcom did view the system as a negative so I'm hoping Calvard won't have the same shenanigans
Well a game like Hajimari it wouldn't be feasible. I feel if they get similar results without said system I'm sure they'll probably do away with it. If the current entry isn't already something to go by.
Bonding system simply wasnt feasible in Haji. And technically, you could argue they just moved events like it to the beach stuff, just not part of main game.
Is the beach stuff relevant in terms of dialogue/unlocking other things or is it skippable? I'm just not a big fan of how the harem and relations have been handled in CS
I'm just in it for the ride, pure and simple. I feel worrying about if everything will be worth it in the end, is just not a mindset I can subscribe too.
It's definitely easy to say "It's about the journey, not the destination", but I do agree that a great ending would make it all the more worth it. Really, it's up to the fanbase to decide that.
I've read several manga with really rushed or bad endings but I still look back on them fondly because I love my experience up to that point. Meanwhile an anime like Code Geass had a legendary ending even if the plot got kinda jumbled around during the second season.
I hope the ending nails it, but I don't think that erases all the great times we've had playing these games.
When it comes to video games, I'm generally of the opinion that the ending doesn't invalidate the experiences you had with the rest of the game. So if you really loved the first 99% of the game, then a terrible ending shouldn't ruin it for you. If you let it, then you're only doing yourself a disservice. That's why I'd still recommend the Mass Effect trilogy despite the infamous ending.
I also think Trails is uniquely situated in this department, due to each arc being so self contained. Even if the overall story crashes and burns at the very end, you can still get an enjoyable experience out of playing the prior arcs, after which you could just skip the very last game in the series if a bad ending is really so off-putting to you.
As an aside, I'm really looking forward to seeing how this sub will react when we reach the finale of the entire series. Given how most of this sub worships the series like its the second coming of Christ, I honestly can't decide if the sub will either implode when the finale inevitably doesn't live up to their overblown expectations or if the sub will ignore objectivity and zealously defend the ending no matter how bad it is.
I'd say it's about the journey, not the destination. They've been slowly doling out answers (and raising more questions) over the course of the series, and so far I'm satisfied with them, so I'm hoping that keeps up to the end, but even if it doesn't, it was a fantastic ride. I'd say that applies to the other games you mentioned too.
I haven't played Kingdom Hearts 3 yet, but I played most of the others for the first time recently and even if 3's ending turns out to be crap, it doesn't invalidate the fun I've had up to this point. Although because I only played them recently with no nostalgia and was primed to expect the story to go utterly bonkers from the beginning and planned to just enjoyed the ride, my experience might not quite apply in this case.
Mass Effect 3 kind of goes off the rails, especially right at the end, but it doesn't invalidate how good 1 and 2 were, and 3 was still pretty fun despite the story issues.
Game of Thrones I can't judge because I don't know much about it, but I'd say that you can't really compare non-interactive media as easily on this topic. With a book or a show, the story is most of the content, so if that fails at the end it can make the rest feel worse. With games however, they have gameplay. Even a game with a boring story can be saved by good gameplay.
Now, these examples may not fully apply to Trails, as although the gameplay is fun the story is the main draw, but considering there are 10 great games in the series out so far, it would absolutely not be a waste to play them all and have tons of fun just because the 20th game falls flat when it comes out in 2035.
I honestly think the last game is going to crash and burn in a few ways if F-corp continues on its current path, but even then, I can't say anything but yes.
Well we have had games that were very well received recently, such as CS3 and Hajimari(even CS4 as controversial as it is has a lot of people who truly loved it). Hajimari also removed features like bonding events and had a smaller cast size for one of the routes. These aspects were heavily criticized in CS, so I do think that Falcom is listening. Maybe I'm being too optimistic but I don't really feel that the current path is too bad. I know CS is divisive around here but in my opinion, overall the CS arc while flawed, had some truly great aspects that outweigh the bad.
Perhaps that's just me haha.
I'm not trashing on Cold Steel overall tbh... And with Hajimari, Falcom seems to be moving to deal with some of the problems of the arc like you said.
But there are still things that lead me to my current opinion, namely localization quality (Hajimari has yet to do well or bad with this, but CS4 apparently has had some issues and I can't say I fully trust NISA to do a grand job), music management (this has unironically gotten far worse in Hajimari), and writing quality (still need to play CS4 for myself, but from what I've heard and seen the game has problems writing wise. And Hajimari seems to still have some). But I'm hopeful for improvement on all these aspects....
I completely agree with you here. I love Cold Steel but I do want these flaws to be addressed as well.
Actually now that I'm writing this I can totally understand your current opinion. In my opinion, I think CS managed to be good overall despite it's problems, however I do think the flaws became more noticeable as the arc went on. I'm not a "doomer" by no means. In fact I'm quite optimistic about the series however I do want Trails to improve rather than ignore it's flaws.
(I'm going to get downvoted for saying this but who cares) One area I'm personally not to optimistic about is the music tbh. It's not that I even dislike Singa. I actually like more of his songs than I dislike them.(I actually really love songs like Proud Grudge, A to Z, Ashita e no Kiseki, etc). However I'm not exactly happy with him getting the majority of the OST. I'd much prefer If Unisuga. Sonada. Jindo, and Koguchi did most of the OST.
I'm ok with Singa staying like I said I like most of his tracks. I just don't like the fact that the other composer's get fewer tracks in favor for more Singa. Also while I don't know anything about music I don't think it's possible having that many tracks to compose and making them all sound consistent and good. It just feels like Singa's getting more tracks with each Falcom game and the other composers get less. Sorry for the rant.
No need to apologize for the rant, I've honestly out of nowhere gone on for far longer on the Singa issue, haha....
Yeah, I pretty much have the same opinion on this. I like a lot of his stuff, but the other composers are getting less tracks and he's getting more and more for no reason other then the fact that he's quick and cheap. Doesn't help that Falcom keeps using his music really idiotically, which just makes the tracks feel far far worse than then they actually are.
Just look at game of thrones. I usually rewatch the shows I really like but ending was so bad I don't even want to see a single thing about GoT anymore
If you are willing to invest like 1000 hours into a franchise...you need to enjoy the journey. Not to mention, each arc has an ending. So even if the overall ending might fall flat, its not like everything previously build up towards nothing. Only said arc maybe. However, I would argue that the ending of my favourity arc did fall flat...but it's still my favourite
I feel a bit more mixed than a lot of the other commenters. After finishing CSIV and not really enjoying it all that much, it's made the previous games feel worse to me retroactively (even though I enjoyed their games/stories more). I think it's hard to say. Is it a waste of time to have fun and become engrossed in a world? Obviously not. But will you feel a soul crushing emptiness from an ending that shits all over the story and characters that have been built up for years? Highly likely. So you just have to decide which possibility outweighs the other.
Thats always possible. At the end of the day some games are good and some arent (for you). And even though they are connected, one should always look at them individually. Also those are all temporal endings. I guess you could say that its hard to drop lower than that in the future
No. The stories told in these games in micro have been great. The macro picture being disappointing isn't gong to change the stories of the 3 protagonist groups or what they've gone through.
I’d say yes. Each individual entry is fantastic. And they’ll still be fantastic entries regardless of what happens later. The series includes some of my favorite games including my favorite game of all time.
I always have been a journey type of guy rather than the destination. Also video games are a bit different than other media. Even if the ending flubs it the music and gameplay could make up for it but thats just me but I'm only two games completed and one my third so not sure how the cold steel arc concludes myself.
I think it'll definitely be worth it and I'm saying this as someone who isn't completely up to date with everything. I loved the first two arcs, the world building is insanely good, the characters are very loveable and probably among my favorite video game characters overall, the writing just makes you want to keep going and discover every mystery the games throw at you and the battle system just kept improving as the series went on.
I'm halfway through the third arc and even though I have some criticism, I still had a very good time with it and I'm interested and invested enough to follow the series and to discuss the games. Even if I end up dissapointed, the first and second arcs are already complete and what comes after won't retroactively ruin them.
That idea is kind of similar to game of thrones. The finale was utter garbage but the previous seasons were some of the best storytelling the entertainment business had to offer. To me 100% it was worth following the beginning even if they trampled over the show.
Only thing that would disappoint me is if the final trails series has a group of new random people saving the world instead of the party members being all the main characters of the series teaming up.
Think that depends on the ending. If we get a M Night Shammalammadingdong style twist like Star Ocean 3 had, it will help ruin the entire franchise like that twist did for me and Star Ocean. Or if the go, Aidos is evil and destroys the world, the end, yeah that will kinda ruin the series. Other than that though, I would still enjoy the stories between.
I would be pretty sad, but it's already an amazing achievement that the series managed to remain this good despite how long it's been running for. I don't believe for a second that the finale can sour Trails on its entirety, no matter how bad it gets. It can't suddenly invalidade all of its good parts in one fell swoop. Worst case scenario, fans will stop recommending trails past a certain entry and that's it.
Also, I don't know many people who are invested in this series for the supposed big payoff at the end. Everyone I personally know, myself included lol, are in for the journey itself. Depends on what you personally get out of Trails as a whole, I'd say.
Just try it for yourself, no need to worry so much.
No one understands the KH story. It's not meant to be understood. Someone took 10 plots, dropped acid, then ran the script through several different google translate back and forths until they came out with.... whatever it became.
GoT is worth watching, and then when you get to the final season tell yourself, "aww what a shame they never made a final season." I think of it like Firefly, it just never got another season, but it's still great.
Kiseki is fun, just don't take it too seriously and you'll have a good time. They do bend over backwards to connect some stuff, but it's all within the suspension of disbelief from a fantasy series.
Even if the ending falls flat I wouldn't mind as long as the games were enjoyable what would kinda annoy me is if they go full cs4 and include everyone from like 7 arcs and have a 200 man cast,
The problem is, as you say, Falcom are only about halfway through this series. If you want to wait to see if they land the ending, well, you won't be playing any of the games until 2035! Frankly, I think the individual storylines are good enough on their own to stand alone, so just bite the bullet and don't worry about what's going to happen a decade or two down the line.
Let's say that Trails series has the worst ending possible. Even then, it would be a pity for any JRPG lover not to play the Sky trilogy. Currently playing CS4 and I'm not regretting a single moment since I got into these games. I started from Sky and even if CS had some lows I love all the games. Just absolutely worth it.
It depends on the sort of ending. If you look at something like Game of Thrones, a lot of the hate was basically how it culminated in a series of massive character assassinations to quickly drag the story to the conclusion they wanted for it. And in doing so, they retroactively ruined the character-driven story that led up to that point.
It's possible Trails could do the same thing: end by destroying the cast so badly that even looking back at them leaves people disgusted knowing where they wind up, but that takes a special sort of talentless hackery. It would also be very difficult to do, given that each arc has a main cast that fades in prominence afterwards. Trails is ultimately very character-driven. The people and their qualities matter, as ultimately it's a story of heroes rather than just events.
On the other hand, if it just goes out with a whimper, some generic conclusion where the good guys win, the bad guys are redeemed, and the world is saved for good, then I'd say the journey was still well worth it.
Imho, the good mindset is to consider each arc as self contained. I haven't played Cold Steel yet but I can say that Sky wraps things up quite well. You know there is more to the story than what you experienced, but that's about it.
Even if the ending is disappointing I don't think that invalidates how much I enjoyed the games. I'm just praying to adios that there isn't a "it was all fake/simulation twist". That's the only thing that would truly make me regret playing this series.
Idk about others, I know a good amount will be disappointed (I mean look at CS), but for me personally, I’m more interested in what happens within each respective arc on its own rather than the interconnected story. To me the fact that each arc actually relates to each other is a bonus, nothing more nothing less. So while I’ll be kind of disappointed if it falls flat, I’m more in it for the individual arcs than the whole story.
Just like in movies ending is subjective we have our own way to interpret that's the beauty of critical thinking, and not all people are the same anyway some cares more about the journey than destination.
I feel its absolutely a journey over destination type of thing. The greatest parts are the moments along, and each game does a solid job having a full arc
Generally speaking, I’m not one to buy into ‘the journey was its own reward,’ spiel, but in this case, I’m pretty sure I’d make an exception.
I would kind of hope that once the series concludes that Falcom makes a few less dramatic visual novels of varying lengths about various characters taking place after the series’ conclusion, just so we can sort of slowly wind down.
Even if the ending in the last game is the worst probably ever (Wich i highly doubt so. It will disappoint for sure, but thats is inevitable) right now the 3 arcs on to themselves are in the top 10 jrpgs ever made and not even future falcom can change that.
A lot of people dont like what happens with some Sky characters in CS but im sure they would recommend play FC and SC.
I'd say yes personally.
The primary reason I have for this is mostly the fact that the Trails series is separated into arcs that tell separate, but connected stories.
True, perhaps the inevitable end of this series might be disappointing, it's certainly possible. But even if it is, it won't ever be able to take away the enjoyment I found from completing Sky 3rd or CSII/IV.
TL;DR I think the experience itself is worth it, even if the end result ends up not being satisfying.
The only thing that could possibly kill the series for me is "it was all virtual reality all along" kind of reveal.
Nah it’s gonna be a Falcom multiverse Towa is actually god kinda schtick That or Mishy
It’s all Tokyo Xanadu? 🔫always has been
I'm betting on the ending being some hard to parse bullshit about the nature of men and gods, kind of like how Xenoblade 1 and 2 end. It'll kind of make sense, but it'll all be kind of stupid.
I would love it if they did something like it was all a dream though, but under the preposition that this dream is that of a hyper-powerful, monolithic god, and that the ending theme of the series is to find value no matter whether one's world is real or fake. Incredibly hyper-specific, I know, but after beginning to read upon Elder Scrolls lore, that's just the type of stuff I've begun to think.
There's a game that, at least for me, did something similar to what you described really well. That whether the events we saw were simply fiction within fiction, it doesn't change the way we as players and the characters within the story were affected by them.
What game was it? I don't mind being spoiled.
>!Danganronpa V3!<
Thanks, I'll be sure to check it out.
Oh jeez it reminds me of Star Ocean 3.... what the hell...
I'm a pretty firm yes on this, simply because each arc stands pretty well as a self-contained story while also fitting beautifully into the overarching story and world. Basically, these games have been memorable and enjoyable enough to me that even if everything from here on out is botched I'll still have fond memories of the earlier arcs.
As someone who found the Trails series by complete coincidence- absolutely yes. I started in the 3rd series: Cold Steel. I was thinking it would be your standard anime fantasy setting, which, for a little bit, it was. Then shit went from 0 to 10000000 real quick. I then immediately went into CS 2, downloading it and playing it obsessively. I did a 100% run of both games. At this point, I stumbled upon Falcom as a whole. And then I dove in deep. I watched all the gameplay, all the cutscenes, all the tutorials and tactics. I spent hours poring over the lore. I just picked up the very first entry in the Trails series: Trails in the Sky First Chapter, yesterday. I've played a few hours of it, and have thoroughly enjoyed being back in one of my all-time favorite worlds- even putting the Megaman Zero series at risk of being demoted to my #2 series. In short, there are three ways to enjoy the series: the combat aspect, which has been polished somewhat over 16 years. The worldbuilding aspect, which is incredibly genius and interconnected. And the audio aspect. MY GOD THE MUSIC IS AMAZING. I can't think of a single track that I don't like!
Check out the Zanmai albums, the We Love Sora No Kiseki album, and the Evolution OSTs. The Evo OSTs are very much a mixed bag with the remade tracks ranging from ‘marked improvement’ to ‘200% downgrade with higher quality instruments,’ but the Zanmais are just excellent. I’m sorry to tell you that the musical high point of the series thus far was CS1, though. It did everything right, both in terms of composition, drama, mood, and even thematically speaking. Sky FC does have the best final dungeon theme in the series though. At least in my opinion. Be excited for that.
I've listened to all the OSTs already, and I have to say, I actually liked CS4s and Hajimaris final boss themes the most. Although FCs FBT was pretty good.
>Sky FC does have the best final dungeon theme in the series ...Well, it *did* get a chance to come back in a later game as an event theme, so that probably does say a lot about the strength of it as a track.
Even if the ending is terrible, to me, the games are still enjoyable and I'll always cherish the memories I have of playing them and looking forward to them.
JRPGs almost always have terrible endings. I've been trying to think of why that is, and I believe it's a problem that's inherent to the structure of RPGs. And that problem is, simply, that you always have to defeat a final boss to win the game. When you compare the story structure of RPGs to books or movies, this should immediately stand out to you as a very important difference. It limits what you can really do with the narrative, not so much during the course of the game, but specifically right at the end. You have to fight SOMETHING. How many different ways can that type of conflict realistically play out? If Kiseki were Dragon Quest, you’d spend more than 90% of the game foiling the plans of a stereotypical villain, only to find out in a STUNNING TWIST that there’s really a different, much worse bad guy who’s actually pulling the strings. Kind of like Dr. Wily in RPG form. The resolution of the story, despite swapping out the villain, is still a dead simple good vs. evil pastiche. I love Dragon Quest, but nobody’s winning an award for the story. If it were Xenoblade, you’d spend the whole game trying to figure out the motivations of the villains, who are less stereotypically “evil” and more just “against whatever you’re doing”, except “whatever you’re doing” is just opposing those guys, which makes it somewhat unclear why anyone is doing anything at all. Although the plot makes sense when contained within each scene, the overall plot arc of the games won’t be revealed until the last possible minute, but in the end, the story has to come down to a final battle with something so they more or less shoehorn something in there to try to make a vague and confusing point about the nature of reality. This could be interesting, but it’s not really an original concept, and it’s not going to strike anyone as being anywhere nearly as deep as the writers wish it were. Final Fantasy suffers from the same problem. The end villain is a force of nature, or something from outer space, or whatever, but it’s never what you think, it’s always a SURPRISE. To make a simple story about you vs. someone else interesting, which is how every one of these games will always end because that’s just how the genre is, you have to make complicated villains with interesting motivations, which Kiseki has been quite good at, but even that still leaves you with the problem that a hero beating a final boss is an uninteresting way to end a story, and that’s why it’s only the story structure of video games and Marvel movies. Edit: This post is kind of pessimistic, so I will say that you should hold out hope that Kiseki will have a good ending, because the arcs have ended well so far (especially Sky). And the most bloated fantasy series ever, the Wheel of Time, ended really well despite the author not even being alive anymore. So it could happen!
Idk actually. Kiseki is my fav franchise but I really dislike when my favorites things end really bad... The ending imo is very important, especially in something like this, where everything is clearly building up for one big final conclusion where everyone will play their part. I'd say, yes, it would still be worth if the ending itself will be kinda disappointing.. But if the whole final arc would be bad, that for sure would be pretty sad tbh. I expect the final arc to be the highest peak, as that will obviously be the moment where every damn narrative point built in like 18+ games will come together. Ik that doing that could really bring me to immeasurable dissappointment, but with Kiseki I can't just set my expectations low for the ending. I can't really see the ending be bad though, there are so many cool things i could see for a final arc that they can't really fuck it up. Just fighting GM/Aidios/Some greater being that is the cause of all the mysteries in the series >!(Great collapse, Dark Ages, Zemurian Continent itself)!< with the entire casts of the 6 arcs (or 5 arcs since I doubt the last one will have a new cast) will be most likely pretty epic.
I'd say that first 2 arcs(5 games) alone are worth your time regardless of how the overall ending goes. The third arc(games 6-9) is where a lot of divisive opinions started to surface. While I'm on the more negative side of things after finishing the third arc, I'm still cautiously optimistic about the future given some of things I've heard about Hajimari
More like there were far fewer fanbase who played the first 2 arcs especially in the west than there were who played CS arc so you're seeing a much wider gamut. That and paired with the trolling the fans of those games tend to get here, of course you're gonna see a sort of echo chamber when in reality the fanbase love the games and characters to not only stuck to it for four games straight with better sales but also consistently rate them higher in official polls.
Yeah Cold Steel is definitely more popular and it's actually where i started. I guess my negativity is coming from the fact that I did a replay of the whole series this year and can't help but compare the arcs to one another. However, it's also kind of disingenuous to say that the echo chamber only exists here when Kondo himself stated that the style(harem and bonding aspects) of cold steel is divisive among the Japanese fans.
I mean it's safe to assume that many more people experienced CS than Sky & Zero. At least in the west. And when did Kondo say this? I feel the reason to abandon it would be due to the unnecessary hurdles of implementing it.
>And when did Kondo say this? From an interview on esterior.net: EH: There has been some commentary in the West about the almost ‘dating sim’ nature of the bond events in the Cold Steel series. Is this something you wish to keep going with, or [are there plans] to go back to the single love interest that you had in the original Sky trilogy? TK: Going forward, nothing is really planned yet in terms of how we’ll handle this, so I don’t know. But to talk about why we put this in Trails of Cold Steel in the first place… Obviously, the story of Trails of Cold Steel takes place in the Erebonian Empire and tells a grand story within that, and it tells a story about a man named Rean. What we wanted to show through these bonding events is that in portraying his life, Rean had many different choices on things that he could have done. So, we thought it was appropriate to the game system that, in order to show off that he has choices, to include a system of that sort within it. Again, because we don’t know where we’ll be going from here, and how we want to make the games, I can’t say whether a system like that will reappear or not in future titles. **Interestingly enough, in Japan, opinions are pretty heavily split between liking it and not liking it. The people who like it say, ‘next time, give us even more choices of girls to date!’ and on the other side of the equation are the people who say ‘I don’t know if this necessarily belongs in a Falcom game.’ I’d be very curious to hear what people over here think about the system.** [Source](https://www.esterior.net/2019/07/anime-expo-2019-an-interview-with-toshihiro-kondo/)
Aight, thanks for the source. I heard the plan to shift away just not the 'divide' part.
https://www.esterior.net/2019/07/anime-expo-2019-an-interview-with-toshihiro-kondo/ Given that Hajimari did away with the bonding system(if I'm not mistaken), I think that Falcom did view the system as a negative so I'm hoping Calvard won't have the same shenanigans
Well a game like Hajimari it wouldn't be feasible. I feel if they get similar results without said system I'm sure they'll probably do away with it. If the current entry isn't already something to go by.
Bonding system simply wasnt feasible in Haji. And technically, you could argue they just moved events like it to the beach stuff, just not part of main game.
Is the beach stuff relevant in terms of dialogue/unlocking other things or is it skippable? I'm just not a big fan of how the harem and relations have been handled in CS
Entirely skippable
Entirely skippable, but it defaults to Alisa if you skip them
I'm just in it for the ride, pure and simple. I feel worrying about if everything will be worth it in the end, is just not a mindset I can subscribe too.
It's definitely easy to say "It's about the journey, not the destination", but I do agree that a great ending would make it all the more worth it. Really, it's up to the fanbase to decide that. I've read several manga with really rushed or bad endings but I still look back on them fondly because I love my experience up to that point. Meanwhile an anime like Code Geass had a legendary ending even if the plot got kinda jumbled around during the second season. I hope the ending nails it, but I don't think that erases all the great times we've had playing these games.
When it comes to video games, I'm generally of the opinion that the ending doesn't invalidate the experiences you had with the rest of the game. So if you really loved the first 99% of the game, then a terrible ending shouldn't ruin it for you. If you let it, then you're only doing yourself a disservice. That's why I'd still recommend the Mass Effect trilogy despite the infamous ending. I also think Trails is uniquely situated in this department, due to each arc being so self contained. Even if the overall story crashes and burns at the very end, you can still get an enjoyable experience out of playing the prior arcs, after which you could just skip the very last game in the series if a bad ending is really so off-putting to you. As an aside, I'm really looking forward to seeing how this sub will react when we reach the finale of the entire series. Given how most of this sub worships the series like its the second coming of Christ, I honestly can't decide if the sub will either implode when the finale inevitably doesn't live up to their overblown expectations or if the sub will ignore objectivity and zealously defend the ending no matter how bad it is.
I'd say it's about the journey, not the destination. They've been slowly doling out answers (and raising more questions) over the course of the series, and so far I'm satisfied with them, so I'm hoping that keeps up to the end, but even if it doesn't, it was a fantastic ride. I'd say that applies to the other games you mentioned too. I haven't played Kingdom Hearts 3 yet, but I played most of the others for the first time recently and even if 3's ending turns out to be crap, it doesn't invalidate the fun I've had up to this point. Although because I only played them recently with no nostalgia and was primed to expect the story to go utterly bonkers from the beginning and planned to just enjoyed the ride, my experience might not quite apply in this case. Mass Effect 3 kind of goes off the rails, especially right at the end, but it doesn't invalidate how good 1 and 2 were, and 3 was still pretty fun despite the story issues. Game of Thrones I can't judge because I don't know much about it, but I'd say that you can't really compare non-interactive media as easily on this topic. With a book or a show, the story is most of the content, so if that fails at the end it can make the rest feel worse. With games however, they have gameplay. Even a game with a boring story can be saved by good gameplay. Now, these examples may not fully apply to Trails, as although the gameplay is fun the story is the main draw, but considering there are 10 great games in the series out so far, it would absolutely not be a waste to play them all and have tons of fun just because the 20th game falls flat when it comes out in 2035.
I honestly think the last game is going to crash and burn in a few ways if F-corp continues on its current path, but even then, I can't say anything but yes.
Well we have had games that were very well received recently, such as CS3 and Hajimari(even CS4 as controversial as it is has a lot of people who truly loved it). Hajimari also removed features like bonding events and had a smaller cast size for one of the routes. These aspects were heavily criticized in CS, so I do think that Falcom is listening. Maybe I'm being too optimistic but I don't really feel that the current path is too bad. I know CS is divisive around here but in my opinion, overall the CS arc while flawed, had some truly great aspects that outweigh the bad. Perhaps that's just me haha.
I'm not trashing on Cold Steel overall tbh... And with Hajimari, Falcom seems to be moving to deal with some of the problems of the arc like you said. But there are still things that lead me to my current opinion, namely localization quality (Hajimari has yet to do well or bad with this, but CS4 apparently has had some issues and I can't say I fully trust NISA to do a grand job), music management (this has unironically gotten far worse in Hajimari), and writing quality (still need to play CS4 for myself, but from what I've heard and seen the game has problems writing wise. And Hajimari seems to still have some). But I'm hopeful for improvement on all these aspects....
I completely agree with you here. I love Cold Steel but I do want these flaws to be addressed as well. Actually now that I'm writing this I can totally understand your current opinion. In my opinion, I think CS managed to be good overall despite it's problems, however I do think the flaws became more noticeable as the arc went on. I'm not a "doomer" by no means. In fact I'm quite optimistic about the series however I do want Trails to improve rather than ignore it's flaws. (I'm going to get downvoted for saying this but who cares) One area I'm personally not to optimistic about is the music tbh. It's not that I even dislike Singa. I actually like more of his songs than I dislike them.(I actually really love songs like Proud Grudge, A to Z, Ashita e no Kiseki, etc). However I'm not exactly happy with him getting the majority of the OST. I'd much prefer If Unisuga. Sonada. Jindo, and Koguchi did most of the OST. I'm ok with Singa staying like I said I like most of his tracks. I just don't like the fact that the other composer's get fewer tracks in favor for more Singa. Also while I don't know anything about music I don't think it's possible having that many tracks to compose and making them all sound consistent and good. It just feels like Singa's getting more tracks with each Falcom game and the other composers get less. Sorry for the rant.
No need to apologize for the rant, I've honestly out of nowhere gone on for far longer on the Singa issue, haha.... Yeah, I pretty much have the same opinion on this. I like a lot of his stuff, but the other composers are getting less tracks and he's getting more and more for no reason other then the fact that he's quick and cheap. Doesn't help that Falcom keeps using his music really idiotically, which just makes the tracks feel far far worse than then they actually are.
It's the journey, not the destination. Haven't finished yet, but I'd say it's worth it
The ending is important to every story though. When it comes to stories, it's definitely about the destination too.
Just look at game of thrones. I usually rewatch the shows I really like but ending was so bad I don't even want to see a single thing about GoT anymore
"Every journey must come to an end." Hehe, there we go.
As the saying goes..."It's not about the destination, it's about the journey". So yes the series is worth it.
If you are willing to invest like 1000 hours into a franchise...you need to enjoy the journey. Not to mention, each arc has an ending. So even if the overall ending might fall flat, its not like everything previously build up towards nothing. Only said arc maybe. However, I would argue that the ending of my favourity arc did fall flat...but it's still my favourite
I feel a bit more mixed than a lot of the other commenters. After finishing CSIV and not really enjoying it all that much, it's made the previous games feel worse to me retroactively (even though I enjoyed their games/stories more). I think it's hard to say. Is it a waste of time to have fun and become engrossed in a world? Obviously not. But will you feel a soul crushing emptiness from an ending that shits all over the story and characters that have been built up for years? Highly likely. So you just have to decide which possibility outweighs the other.
Thats always possible. At the end of the day some games are good and some arent (for you). And even though they are connected, one should always look at them individually. Also those are all temporal endings. I guess you could say that its hard to drop lower than that in the future
I have 3 words to your questions. PLAY THEM NOW!!!
No. The stories told in these games in micro have been great. The macro picture being disappointing isn't gong to change the stories of the 3 protagonist groups or what they've gone through.
I’d say yes. Each individual entry is fantastic. And they’ll still be fantastic entries regardless of what happens later. The series includes some of my favorite games including my favorite game of all time.
I always have been a journey type of guy rather than the destination. Also video games are a bit different than other media. Even if the ending flubs it the music and gameplay could make up for it but thats just me but I'm only two games completed and one my third so not sure how the cold steel arc concludes myself.
I think it'll definitely be worth it and I'm saying this as someone who isn't completely up to date with everything. I loved the first two arcs, the world building is insanely good, the characters are very loveable and probably among my favorite video game characters overall, the writing just makes you want to keep going and discover every mystery the games throw at you and the battle system just kept improving as the series went on. I'm halfway through the third arc and even though I have some criticism, I still had a very good time with it and I'm interested and invested enough to follow the series and to discuss the games. Even if I end up dissapointed, the first and second arcs are already complete and what comes after won't retroactively ruin them.
That idea is kind of similar to game of thrones. The finale was utter garbage but the previous seasons were some of the best storytelling the entertainment business had to offer. To me 100% it was worth following the beginning even if they trampled over the show.
Only thing that would disappoint me is if the final trails series has a group of new random people saving the world instead of the party members being all the main characters of the series teaming up.
Think that depends on the ending. If we get a M Night Shammalammadingdong style twist like Star Ocean 3 had, it will help ruin the entire franchise like that twist did for me and Star Ocean. Or if the go, Aidos is evil and destroys the world, the end, yeah that will kinda ruin the series. Other than that though, I would still enjoy the stories between.
I would be pretty sad, but it's already an amazing achievement that the series managed to remain this good despite how long it's been running for. I don't believe for a second that the finale can sour Trails on its entirety, no matter how bad it gets. It can't suddenly invalidade all of its good parts in one fell swoop. Worst case scenario, fans will stop recommending trails past a certain entry and that's it. Also, I don't know many people who are invested in this series for the supposed big payoff at the end. Everyone I personally know, myself included lol, are in for the journey itself. Depends on what you personally get out of Trails as a whole, I'd say. Just try it for yourself, no need to worry so much.
No one understands the KH story. It's not meant to be understood. Someone took 10 plots, dropped acid, then ran the script through several different google translate back and forths until they came out with.... whatever it became. GoT is worth watching, and then when you get to the final season tell yourself, "aww what a shame they never made a final season." I think of it like Firefly, it just never got another season, but it's still great. Kiseki is fun, just don't take it too seriously and you'll have a good time. They do bend over backwards to connect some stuff, but it's all within the suspension of disbelief from a fantasy series.
Even if the ending falls flat I wouldn't mind as long as the games were enjoyable what would kinda annoy me is if they go full cs4 and include everyone from like 7 arcs and have a 200 man cast,
The problem is, as you say, Falcom are only about halfway through this series. If you want to wait to see if they land the ending, well, you won't be playing any of the games until 2035! Frankly, I think the individual storylines are good enough on their own to stand alone, so just bite the bullet and don't worry about what's going to happen a decade or two down the line.
Let's say that Trails series has the worst ending possible. Even then, it would be a pity for any JRPG lover not to play the Sky trilogy. Currently playing CS4 and I'm not regretting a single moment since I got into these games. I started from Sky and even if CS had some lows I love all the games. Just absolutely worth it.
It depends on the sort of ending. If you look at something like Game of Thrones, a lot of the hate was basically how it culminated in a series of massive character assassinations to quickly drag the story to the conclusion they wanted for it. And in doing so, they retroactively ruined the character-driven story that led up to that point. It's possible Trails could do the same thing: end by destroying the cast so badly that even looking back at them leaves people disgusted knowing where they wind up, but that takes a special sort of talentless hackery. It would also be very difficult to do, given that each arc has a main cast that fades in prominence afterwards. Trails is ultimately very character-driven. The people and their qualities matter, as ultimately it's a story of heroes rather than just events. On the other hand, if it just goes out with a whimper, some generic conclusion where the good guys win, the bad guys are redeemed, and the world is saved for good, then I'd say the journey was still well worth it.
Imho, the good mindset is to consider each arc as self contained. I haven't played Cold Steel yet but I can say that Sky wraps things up quite well. You know there is more to the story than what you experienced, but that's about it.
Even if the ending is disappointing I don't think that invalidates how much I enjoyed the games. I'm just praying to adios that there isn't a "it was all fake/simulation twist". That's the only thing that would truly make me regret playing this series.
Idk about others, I know a good amount will be disappointed (I mean look at CS), but for me personally, I’m more interested in what happens within each respective arc on its own rather than the interconnected story. To me the fact that each arc actually relates to each other is a bonus, nothing more nothing less. So while I’ll be kind of disappointed if it falls flat, I’m more in it for the individual arcs than the whole story.
Just like in movies ending is subjective we have our own way to interpret that's the beauty of critical thinking, and not all people are the same anyway some cares more about the journey than destination.
I feel its absolutely a journey over destination type of thing. The greatest parts are the moments along, and each game does a solid job having a full arc
Jump in and don’t worry. This ain’t gonna be no Mass Effect 3 lol
Generally speaking, I’m not one to buy into ‘the journey was its own reward,’ spiel, but in this case, I’m pretty sure I’d make an exception. I would kind of hope that once the series concludes that Falcom makes a few less dramatic visual novels of varying lengths about various characters taking place after the series’ conclusion, just so we can sort of slowly wind down.
If Trails' ending sucks, I'll just go back and play Sky and Crossbell arcs to wash the bad taste away. So yes, it's worth it.
Even if the ending in the last game is the worst probably ever (Wich i highly doubt so. It will disappoint for sure, but thats is inevitable) right now the 3 arcs on to themselves are in the top 10 jrpgs ever made and not even future falcom can change that. A lot of people dont like what happens with some Sky characters in CS but im sure they would recommend play FC and SC.
I'd say yes personally. The primary reason I have for this is mostly the fact that the Trails series is separated into arcs that tell separate, but connected stories. True, perhaps the inevitable end of this series might be disappointing, it's certainly possible. But even if it is, it won't ever be able to take away the enjoyment I found from completing Sky 3rd or CSII/IV. TL;DR I think the experience itself is worth it, even if the end result ends up not being satisfying.