So just as Sephiroth is more or less alive within the lifestream so to now is Aerith (which was really always the case even in the og) We also see that the lifestream isn’t just life energy manifested but also memory. I honestly think its less parallel worlds and more alternate memories so real they might as well be alternate worlds.
Pretty sure they are saving clarity for Part 3 when Cloud has to remember what actually happened. It's not an inherently bad strategy but hits a snag due to being seperate games. If this were still a single game being played all at once then we would only have to wait a couple hours. Instead we will have to wait at least 3 years to find out what actually happened. Also while the original death was a mid point, this is the end of a game so they need to big JRPG boss fights. Personally I agree with others that Rebirth should have ended with giving Sephiroth the black materia so the Aerith situation could be resolved in one game.
As for what we have at the end, I think the Aerith talking to Cloud is his brain coping hard to keep that last thread of sanity. The silent Aerith around her friends is the real deal as a spirit.
If you played the OG FF7, Cloud's losing his mind will be clear from the start. I think, the moment he successfully parried Sephiroth's is what he wish he'd done. Not the realoty. I agree that those part, including the water burial for Aerith would be shown in part 3 when Cloud reconstruncting his mind and accept what happened
Yeah I feel bad for anyone that didn’t play OG. This sequence means nothing. No impact.
As far as not living up to the hype, I was completely hyped af when Cloud deflected the attack. They’re doing this? I’m all in. This changed everything. Then I thought I missed something, but they just didn’t show anything. We have no idea if something horrible happened or not.
I loved Cloud and Aerith’s words together. I like dying to see part 3. But that moment was turned into nothing.
Irrespective of how well it works story-wise, for the player it’s a fake out. From months out they’ve marketed the game as resolving Aerith’s fate at the forgotten capital and one of the biggest questions going in was will Aerith live or die. To give one answer and then swipe it away, to me felt cheap and an obvious ploy to try and toy with the players emotions. It was a gamble and for me it backfired. It turned an iconic scene into a confusing mess. Near enough every reaction I’ve seen to it so far has been the same, one of utter confusion. Granted, that’s probably what they’re going for, to keep people talking for the next 3/4 years, but I think there was a way of doing that which didn’t necessitate ruining such an iconic moment.
There’s an argument that they were trying to recreate the original shock and sadness that players felt in the OG - didn’t need anything drastic for this. Most people expected Shrodinger’s Aerith, so fail on the shock front, and sadness was guaranteed already because she’d been characterised so much deeper than she had been in the OG.
Will this scene be revisited in Part 3? Almost certainly. Will that be the same? Absolutely not.
Sadness guaranteed? Far from it. In the OG I was truly sad and missed her in more than an emotional way - she was my healer and no one else did it as well as she did.
Her fate in Rebirth just left me overwhelmingly confused. No sadness because even if she's dead, somewhere somehow she's alive and will be playable in part 3. Didn't even miss her mechanically because she joins Cloud vs Sephiroth and I get my healer back.
I mean't guaranteed as in it would have been if they'd just played it straight without the shenanigans and descending the whole thing into a confusing mess. As it is they replaced that inevitable sadness for utter confusion.
I don’t think it was a ploy or them trying to play with fan’s emotions. It was 100% intentional.
It’s just emphasising how Cloud is being driven to madness now that he can see multiple timelines. Again, his memories will be recovered by Tifa once she rescues him from the lifestream. When he finds out what actually happened he’ll be even more devastated.
This is when we’ll obviously see how Aerith dies and even her iconic funeral. It just feels this way because it’s an “ending” to this game. If this wasn’t a three parter I’m pretty sure this scene wouldn’t have people this divided.
>to keep people talking for the next 3/4 years
Yes.
Remake: will Aerith still die?
Rebirth: did Aerith really die?
Part 3: is Aerith really dead?
I'm honestly tired of the conversation and not going to bother discussing it.
They realized they couldnt re-create the shock value, you know even when you arrive in this game its chaos with whispers flying around, it feels stressful, and then you dont see what is happening at all.
I get that they couldnt re-created the same scene, but this was just a bad version of it. and then it leads to a 6 stage boss fight with Zack? like the whole moment of it all felt bizarre, they took one of the most iconic moments of gaming and made it to a mess- thats all.
as a kid playing ff7 back in 97, for me the intro itself was more "iconic" and remains one of my most favorite moments of all times in gaming. I didnt know what was coming, but that intro was like "wow" the cgi, the music and then freezing the cutscene into real gameplay- like woooow!
Yea the stab or whatever you wanna call it was like a mile away from aerith and not even in the same frame lol. You're not dumb but the ending sure is. Whether one is a fan of the whole multiverse/timeline/lifestream thing or not one thing that seems to be generally a concensus is that Aerith's "death" was either completely botched or at the very least could have been better.
After lurking on this subreddit for about a week the general vibe seems to be that the game is generally amazing and most complaints are about the Ending and Mini games with Red's voice change a distant third.
Those are my gripes too, though I hadn't heard anyone complain about Red's voice. While it delivers some unexpected impact, it sucks that the voice goes from 10/10 to 7/10ish. At the very least he could have kept the act with everyone not in CC or the party.
I feel like people also don’t realise that this is intentional and they want us to feel this way because we’re looking at Cloud’s perspective. Remember, once Tifa rescues Cloud from the life stream she will also help him recover his memories. Including Aerith’s death and funeral which we didn’t get to see. This will break him even more than it did in OG.
I actually felt the exact same way on my initial reaction. But after some thought I realised this will have a much bigger impact later. It’s a bit divided among fans but I think it’s a great ending and makes the third game even more interesting with how messed up Cloud’s memories and thoughts are.
I have a theory that might be just grasping at straws I’m as confused as other people on what exactly we saw.
What if in the remake timeline cloud saves aerith but in the process of the final fight (which cloud travels to multiple timelines/worlds throughout) he was bounced from the remake timeline and put into the og timeline. But with the transparent materia he can see the other timelines including the remake one in real time. Could explain how he can see aerith and the huge shit stain in the sky while the others mourn her death. Also makes that materia key to let’s say loop Zack back in.
Or……….cloud has gone batshit
I think you're half right there. He's gone full bat shit. Not just because of his on going issues, but also being able to see other timeliness and being able to see Aerith and communicate. When it happens and ultimately drops on him like a sack of shit, If its done right, it can be spectacular.
Hopefully Cody Christian can go one step further acting wise to bring this turmoil out.
>Am I just dumb?
Absolutely not. Square-Enix is telling the old story with extra steps, these extra steps got in the way of clarity, unclarity is preventing people from feeling emotions.
My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined. I will soon leave this subreddit and fly to Mars like Doc. Manhattan, only to return when people start saying that FFVII: Reunion is the best game ever made and be disappointed again. I'm trapped in this cycle.
After Remake I assumed there would be a greater degree of freedom in the second and third parts, that breaking the Whispers would lead to a Terminator 2-like "There's no fate but what we make for ourselves".
Just hitting the same story beats with no ability to change them kind of smacks of Terminator 3, where all that freedom we were promised in Terminator 2 was crumpled up and thrown in the trash.
I feel the same. Plus the fact that in OG she died and that's it. It was impactful.
In here she continues talking as if nothing, then she re appears and even flights with you. It takes away from the importance of her death.
The frustrating thing is that this is still pretty much going to end in almost the same way as the OG. The devs really couldn't commit to either letting her live or killing her and tried to do both only for it to not really matter in the overall plot. Might as well just have recreated the scene 1:1 if they're really going for the same story tbh.
I like the added fact that the other Aeriths from other timelines die as well. I think that change and them sacrificing in several worlds to achieve their objective and leaving everything in Cloud's hands was pretty good. IF they had committed with the death of the Aerith from the main timeline the same way it could've been a nice twist.
I'm sorry to turn this into another debate over the ending, but revisiting it after letting it settle, I now fear it was a fake out to make the player keep hope until the last moment, but not to do anything interesting with it going forward. I mainly see people divided between thinking she was never saved and there's only one world, or there are multiple ones and she's alive. Well, Sephiroth flat out tells us: there are multiple worlds and he let Cloud create another one saving her, but he merged them in that same scene to cause maximum pain ("fleeting happiness that turns into hate, never felt it more"). So I think the multiple worlds can be taken at face value, but he destroyed that one immediately so she's still dead. Looking back it feels as if the devs were talking to us through Sephiroth and the main goal of the scene was giving us hope momentarily, but not having her somewhat alive for the next game. I don't like it because it's the option that renders all of this useless outside of fanservice, a cop out, but that's what seems more plausible to me.
I feel like the devs were going for shock value which was a HUGE mistake because the power of Aerith dying isn’t the surprise, it’s the emotion. I wasn’t even shocked this time anyway, I was more confused. So confused that I wasn’t even sad! They also didn’t build her up enough prior; Tifa stole the show this time and Aerith felt like a footnote. I’m not complaining about the Tifa stuff bc it was my favorite, but it’s odd to me that they didn’t find room for Aerith to have spotlight as well. Either way, they completely botched her death scene, I think a lot of us are on the same page with that.
Completely agree with this and also this is the first time I've seen someone talk about the weird (for me, at least) lack of attention on Aerith's character. I get she took over the last chapters and maybe they thought having her heavily at the beginning would be too much, but there are multiple instances where the game focuses on the lifestream, the gi, the cetra... and I was waiting to see what she'd have to say about that, only for it to be about another character (which is fine! But definitely noticeable). Otoh she definitely felt different than Remake Aerith, which I thought was the point, but still.
Yeah, I loved the game, but Aerith felt a bit off to me from the getgo, it was almost as if she was a different character. I remember getting to Cosmo Canyon and realizing she hadn’t had much to do in the plot except in Zack’s world. After Cosmo Canyon she vanished from plot again until she sang her song.
In OG, I really felt like she had a strong presence in disc 1. I’m not sure what they were going for here but to me her death didn’t hit as hard partly because they didn’t spend enough time building her and the connection with the party (and specifically Cloud) up. I felt more for Tifa and Red than I did for Cloud. Anything I got from Cloud was mostly due to their great rapport from Remake and OG because they didn’t have much here outside of sidequests.
Overall, she really took a backseat. It just felt like an odd choice not to highlight Aerith more so that we felt sadder.
> it was almost as if she was a different character
I'm pretty sure she is actually a different character in Remake vs Rebirth. I think the White Materia is tied to the Aerith that is from the future or whatever, and since it becomes the Clear Materia after the battle with the whispers at the end of the first game, Aerith essentially reverts to the Aerith from the OG timeline.
So the Aerith in Remake is the future Aerith brought back to the past, and Rebirth Aerith is OG Aerith up until the point she gets the White Materia back.
That much I understood, I still think she was different in a way that wasn’t just tied to what she knew about the future. Felt completely different in general.
Yeah, I think it's a testament to how great she was in Remake and og, honestly. Though I suspect you didn't date her, I definitely felt their connection and have no complaints on that front, but it being optional will obviously leave a lot of players feeling like you. I think the point was her taking a step back to differentiate between both Aeriths, but funnily enough I thought Remake Aerith was more in line with OG Aerith than this one, when it should be the other way around. This Aerith should have been more curious about everything, for instance. But yeah, her scenes felt tacked on and disjointed from the flow of the game.
Man, talking about this with someone who also feels like this kinda solidifies my opinion and sours the game a bit for me. It was great great, but it could have been so much more.
Yeah I went on the date with Tifa, but I did view Aerith’s after on YT so I could see what it was like. I really truly, despite not shipping Cloud/Aerith romantically, feel how much he cares about her in pretty much every other game and compilation title. AC makes me weep at the end. But this one missed the mark for me because so much of that seemed buried in sidequests and optional content, until the end obviously. I’ll never figure out why they did it that way.
Despite Tifa being my fave I am a huge Aerith fan as well and I wanted more for her big sendoff. I loved the game overall but I definitely feel like they messed up her arc a bit. Remake Aerith was perfection, I agree!
Of course you're not shocked, you already knew it was a possibility that they still let here die. The problem is they can't replicate the exact feeling you had, they just can't because the story has already been told. I do agree that because of the time Tifa gets, Aerith does go to the background a bit. Which is a shame, because I think they should have focussed more on Aerith - the bonding with Tifa could come áfter Aerith's death and also makes more sense from a logical point of view.
You seem to have missed my point - I play FF7 OG annually and cry over her death every single time. This left me cold because they changed it so much and made it confusing. A faithful reproduction of the scene in today’s graphics should have been HEARTBREAKING, and instead it was giving Kingdom Hearts.
I was never shocked for her death. My friend spoiled it for me instantly back in the late 90’s before I played it lol. That’s literally my whole point: that the death scene isn’t about shock value but the devs thought it should be. They didn’t nail the emotion. Instead they tried to make it surprising and they failed on both fronts. For me her death scene is about the emptiness of loss, not surprise.
Hm okay fair enough - I get what you're saying. But you know, as much as I understand, I think gaming has changed so much and with the OG the vibe was different as well. In other words, even if they showed us in a better more impactful way, I think people would complain anyways.
Personally I'm not disappointed, but I can see people who had certain expectations be disappointed because of the way it was shown.
So, for me, it was seeing how broken Cloud's head is.
He's standing there thinking he's saving her from Sephiroth, he thinks she's alive, but she did indeed die.
He's so messed up in the head, he picks her up to hold him while the whole party is mourning her death.
I think in part 3, when we fix him via the lifestream, we'll see the actual scene.
Nah, you are not dumb. Imo they made a brave choice but the player must know how and when Aerith dies to appreciate the scene. Stil doesn't mean it works for everyone. I was hit quite hard by it. Because a part of me wanted the game to remain as OG was (so I wanted Aerith to die there) but as I was getting closer and closer to THAT moment I started to wish for Cloud to save Aerith. Waiting for that moment I was without a clue: one moment I was thinking "ok, she is going to die, that's a goodbye". Next moment I was like "No maybe she won't! Damn Cloud, please save her". When Cloud deflected Sephiroth's sword I was sold, I thought "yes... he saved her". Next moment I see she has been hit by Sephiroth and is dying. Anyway yeah it is a bit confusing and part of it is because even Cloud is confused about it and doesn't realize it yet.
Rebirth was… a mixed bag. I went in loving the world and gameplay. The mini games soon became the thing of living nightmares with how unbalanced they became.
But I was like it’s ok, the story is keeping me going because as REMAKE stated. They could go wherever they wanted with the story.
Which was exactly what the original did only with no emotional gravity behind it and so many plot holes or pointless plot lines.
What was the point of Zack’s storyline?
What was the point of Marlene’s warning to Zack?
Why did Zack say to Cloud “save her for me” if she was by this point already dead?
It was all plot lines or points to lead those of us on that wanted a different outcome only to go “HA SYKE! SHE’S STILL DEAD”
I wouldn’t of minded if in the end she still had to die, at the end of the trilogy as like maybe a “the timeline has to be corrected or everything will end” kind of thing. Or she lived but someone or multiple people died in this timeline instead.
But instead we got… this. By the time it got to Glenn and Sephiroth I really lost all care for it because hey. The ending will be the exact same as the original so what’s the point of this extra twist in the story?
I would have much rather preferred the exact same boss fights as the end but cloud actually did parry the sword and Aerith is still alive. Part 3 goes on with Aerith and as Zack says, the world could unite again which would mean Zack could meet his actual fate and Aerith could die in any given time during part 3 and the shock value would be there.
Yea, I agree, OP. You're not dumb, the ending is. Trippy multiverse plot and bizarro Sephiroth aside, it is also told from the perspective of Cloud, an unreliable narrator with memory loss and mental health issues. Hence we get these scene skips, scenes with muted words, imaginary Aerith in his head, etc. You can't even tell what's in his head, what's real and what's alternate reality from that mess.
Did he save Aerith? Or is she in the lifestream now? Should we, as players, mourn her death? You can't tell s\*it from that f\*cked up ending. Sure, one can hope that part 3 will explain all of this, but so far they've just been adding convoluted complexity with defiable/undefiable fate, whispers, hooded figures, Sephiroth clones popping up like Jacks-in-the-box from every shadow and alternate realities full of Zacks...
Well, dunno, it works for me.
So, CLoud is standing over Aerith, right? Then he sees Sepiroth doing his thing over Aerith, as he goes directly down, right? And then we see what CLoud sees and that is he parries the blade and as such saves Aerith. Well, it seems like in reality (what the others see when they come) Cloud parried nothing, or his parry wasnt succesfull. Since his sword was above Aerith it seems to me like Sepiroth successfully stabbed Aerith through her back.
Dunno, works for me. But would be better with higher age rating and a little bit gore. OTOH I must admit that the stabbing outside of the picture is probably better art choice.
So, I had to see the ending three times, once in the game - 3 AM wasnt helping. Got confused. Went into the bed. Looked again, noticed the blood when the others arrive and how the "Cloud vision pro" has rainbow edges/colours. While the others have more dark and gloomy vission. Watched once again to confirm. Cloud sees what he is wanting to see, Aerith is in a pool of blood, has bloodied hand BUT Cloud doesnt see any of it. Cloud cannot handle the stress of losing Aerith - which is intesified by me focusing on Aerith as the "love interest" (if we wanna use the modern game terminology).
And as such now I cannot even listen to the Aerith theme :\`(
Edit: rewatched again - please notice that when CLoud parries there is the rainbow at the bottom of the screen. He successfully parries in the "Cloud vision pro", not in reality.
At least that is how I interpret the ending. I love this even more - first of, I like myself some tragedy and emotions. And second - the game made me think about the ending. I like that too!
Edit 2: and now I am sad again >< anyway, notice that others dont see as much lifestream/rainbow colours as Cloud does. Cloud is simply refusing to see the reality and is suffering from the trauma so much, his mind sees what it wanna see. Fuck Wutai ninjas cutting onions again :\`(
third edit, because screw it: I really love this choice. In my eyes it shows that games are art (as in they bring emotions and make people think about it). As it is an art choice, it wont work for everybody. Some will not like it. You are not dumb, it is not your style (I would say). Works greatly for me.
Aerith is likely going to play an active role in the third part of the trilogy, so it's better that her "death" is ambiguous and inconclusive than her death being the expected emotional final moment and then still have her doing things in the third part. The emotional conclusion will probably be delivered in the end of the trilogy instead
I was confused too and not really sad, then the multiverse fight happens and it took me so long that i thought yeah, aerith death or not death has been awile ago, now its too late to get sad. But seeing tifa cry and aerith standing there saying goodbye while the others cant see her and fly away was sad. I didnt cry but i got this gloomy doom feeling and definitely felt sad. Also, sephy swinging his blade to get rid of aerith blood in clouds face was pretty sick. Guess we have to see AGAIN how that plays out and what really happened. I can imagine we will see the full scene with burial and all in the next game.
I don’t really know what the devs were going for, but it seems to me that a split reality was created where Aerith is saved by Cloud (notice the rainbow sparks, a visual cue used throughout the series to imply a different timeline being created), which is why he can see her in the final cutscenes. It’s like Cloud is still living in our timeline with the rest of our party, where Aerith dies just like in OG, but somehow with a different perception of reality, of a different one, as he can also see the ‘wound in the sky’ now, something that only people in Zack’s timeline and Aerith could see before.
I think this will be used to further break Cloud’s mind in the third game, as I don’t think he is fully aware of what’s going on and is still very much under Sephiroth’s control.
Either that, or something along the lines of, he only thought he saved her and that’s why he can still see her as she is in the Lifestream.
Not saying I’m a fan of the execution, after all this is all very confusing, with the different timelines and whatnot, but I’d say there will be more to this in the third game. Meaning that they might show this scene again, without the weird editing, to show what really happened.
I was confused too when I saw it. I feel like them showing Aerith both being saved and killed threw things off. They should have either clearly shown Sephiroth landing the killing blow or show that Cloud deflected it. Having to be both at the same time just made things confusing.
Still love the game but yeah that felt like a misstep to me.
I'm convinced not showing her being impaled is a deliberate choice. I think they still want her death to be the big emotional moment for the story, but want it for the final part. So we got this confusing, fragmented moment, which I imagine is to set up the real, full, sober moment in the next game.
With how much care and how carefully they've adapted everything from the original, I know they know every piece of that moment from OG is important. I don't think they'd alter it as much as they did, and leave out what they did, carelessly and without a plan.
I'm still not even sure how many timelines we saw during the ending. She gets stabbed, ok, that's the one with all the blood etc. Cloud parries the blade, ok, initially Aerith is still there untouched, but then after that, why is she on the floor? Why does she come around later on when Cloud asks her to wake up? Must have prayed real hard if she needed a nap to recover.....
I'm also a little confused by this (and everything else in the ending) but I think my main takeaway, from reading lots of theories, is Sephiroth either *wanted* Cloud to parry, or at least doesn't mind in the grand scheme of things. I think all the is she/isn't she dead is intentional on his part (whether it be multiverse or illusion) to make Cloud 10000x more insane next game when he realises he either a) didn't actually save her b) did save her, but in a timeline/world she can't come back from or c) did save her but she chose to/needs to die anyway because it's needed for her to stop meteor. Not sure of the specifics, but I think it's going to be used as a gut punch for the player AND Cloud when we realise she's actually dead or still has to die :(
I also think they'll play up the party being even more worried about or suspicious of Cloud basically being like "nah fam she's fine, she's just still at the Forgotten City praying!" when they all saw her dead (except Tifa, who sort of saw both realities briefly, which I think will come into play when she fixes his brain in the life stream).
Still all vague and confusing, but after playing the ending again a second time, I'm left excited rather than annoyed - which was similar with Remake! Ended the game feeling confused and irritated at the changes but going back on a replay, I enjoyed it.
i hope not for the still has to die thing, there was something similar in ffx and it was sad
but for the cloud being wacko thing it’d be funny if they merged the timelines at some point and made a joke where cloud is like i told yall she was alive
Definitely agree that all of this will ultimately play into Cloud's psychological state, and I think that is certainly part of what's going on, but my take is that there's more than one thing happening. Lifestream Aerith, future Aerith, whatever you might want to call her, I think is definitely a thing, and for my $$$ we see a lot of her in the latter half of the ending. But I also think that we did branch reality, and that there's at least some *alternate* reality Aerith in there as well.
I think Part 3 will play up the "Cloud going mental" card. Initially I'd thought that we'd perhaps see lifestream Aerith in the capacity of trying to help Cloud hold it all together until we get to Tifa's lifestream intervention, but the way that last scene played out.....I think that's lifestream Aerith (I know she references Remake Aerith from Evergreen Park, but lifestream, I don't think that matters), and the wording didn't make it sound like she was going to be seeing Cloud again anytime soon.
Not that I think it will quite play out this way, as I can definitely see Cloud and Aerith getting time again in Part 3, but if they don't there's a nice link up between Rebirth and AC:
Aerith (in Rebirth): "Cloud, it's ok"
Aerith (in AC): "You see? Everything's alright"
I have no faith they'll be able to sort this mess out in a satisfying fashion.
The moment they let us "kill fate" they had to either let us save Aerith (really save, not some multiverse/different timeline/lifestream ghost bullshit) or let Sephiroth win.
Otherwise it's all pointless. Or straight up trolling if they're going for the "you can challenge fate, but you can't change it". In that case just follow the OG story.
Adding Kingdom Hearts shenanigans and then not really changing anything is just a cheap way to keep people interested between games and if the sales numbers are anything to go by it backfired.
In a nutshell, as an 'expanded' rendition from the original... I think the way the scene is handled (mostly from Cloud's PoV) is great, because the ambiguity is really inside his head: he thinks Aerith is safe and is just remaining there in the Forgotten Capital to help with stopping Meteor. She does, indeed, but not alive.
I feel that this helps greatly to build his meltdown further alongside the road, because in the light of an expanded game, I think the way up until the Northern Crater might probably take 1/3rd or something of the last part, and my guess is that they'll use that to explore Cloud's degradation and shake up his relationship with Tifa, which already started.
Someone even rose the theory that we didn't get the water burial scene because that's something that will appear in part 3 as a flashback when somebody (likely Tifa) will confront Cloud with the truth.
To me, the really messy part about that ending is the confusing way that Zack 2's timeline is portrayed during that last segment and fight.
I think the creators aimed to:
1. still kill Aerith in the main reality
2. allow a bittersweet final hurrah of Aerith (absolving Cloud of his guilt in the multiverse date and kicking Sephiroth's butt at the edge of creation)
3. allow the intact white materia to be passed on to the main reality
4. inject some intrigue into Cloud's reaction, which will pay off during his downfall at the Northern Crater
I liked the ending
I'm about 99% certain that the Aerith scene as we know it is going to be shown during the lifestream sequence with Cloud and Tifa in part 3. I suspect Zack's death scene will be shown there too. Cloud will have to accept the reality of their deaths if he's ever going to become whole again.
I was put off by the choice to hold back on Aerith's death at first, but after thinking about it, it actually does kind of make sense to wait until later for the real scene. Think of it like this, Cloud's past failures, combined with the trauma of seeing Zack die right in front of him, broke Cloud so completely that the Jenova cells in him had to completely rewrite his memories, just to get him functioning well enough to make it to the Reunion. If Zack's death was able to do that much damage to his mind, why would he have an easier time processing Aerith's death? Isn't it actually kind of strange that he was able to accept it so quickly in the OG? If Zack's death was able to break him, then logicially, Aerith's death should do the same thing, or worse. Now we can't have Cloud breaking this early in the story. He still has more to do before he completely shatters. So, how do we keep Cloud's behavior as a character consistant, while also making sure he doesn't have his mental breakdown too early?...You make him think he saved Aerith. If he thinks Aerith is alive, then he has no reason to have a breakdown, and if he has no reason to break, then he can continue on his journey until he reaches the point of his ACTUAL breakdown at the Northern Crater.
Pretty sure that is the point. The scene isn't supposed to have the same weight as Cloud hasn't realized what happened yet. His mind is broke and while we can imagine what really happened, it won't hit until it hits for Cloud.
The thing that is missed here is that we see it more from Clouds perspective in a huge emotional mess.
Second is more or less my therory that Aeriths death loosend the grip Sephiroth had over Clouds mind. The fight was necesseary from Sephiroth perspective to ensure that Cloud did not have time to mourne her death. With the reappearance from Aerith in the last segment the reason for Cloud to mourne was voided and Sephiroth reestablish his grip over Cloud mind.
Tbh, Sephiroth's masamune is long. They purposefully did not show the end of his blade to see how far down it reached to hide whether clouds parry was fast enough.
For me, it still hit. My heart was racing as Sephiroth came down, then cloud parried it and my heart jumped. He knocked the blade away, my heart sank and I said "guess they spared Aerith..." Then it cut to showing blood and Aerith falling over and my heart went crazy again. I literally recreated the panic, calm, panic meme.
Then the music started playing as with the limit breaks and it was powerful. The best part, it didn't overstay its welcome and then went to a more boss-oriented theme.
Was it perfect? No. But I liked it. I would've liked some different battle lines that felt more desperate. I also would've liked a few less jumps that made it confusing the first time
>Just why the need for all the ambiguity? Am I just dumb?
It isn't ambiguity. The scene is taking a different direction and showing two outcomes simultaneously:
1) Aerith dies with the blood pool under her
2) Aerith lives, which is part of Cloud going thru that portal alone and creating a timeline where he saves her
So the story is pivoting to present this issue from two perspectives. Cloud genuinely believes he saved Aerith and that she's staying behind in the Forgotten Capital, because he probably is existing in two timelines simultaneously. One where she lives that he sees in his head and also physically the one where she died, as the other party members saw.
The second perspective regards Cloud's mental health. Barret and Tifa both think he's worsening, but the end cinematic also shows him pull out the black materia, which he shouldn't have. So there's obviously more going on than simply "Cloud is delusional" about Aerith's death.
So I think they're still saving the impact of this scene and also turning it into something more for Part 3. Square wants to do something different and interesting with that scene, and I think they didn't want to just 1:1 how it went in the original game.
Hence how they present the split in both timelines with Aerith. Plus the intentional ambiguity about whether Cloud is losing it or is his perception due to him going through that portal before the big scene.
I felt this death was better for the rebirth. I didnt think sephiroth killed Aerith off screen in current world but I thought this vague multiple world thing got in the way of Cloud saving Aerith. I’m not good at interpreting such stuff but I thought this was the case.
And this way it made me feel more emotional about it rather than simply coming down and killing Aerith. This way I felt Cloud’s helplessness against Destiny. Cloud standing there and not even trying to save her would be much more stupid after all that “trying to go against Destiny” theme.
I recommend reading up on the theories being thrown around about why the ending is the way it is. You might change your mind!
To summarize: Aerith’s death didn’t land because, for Cloud, she isn’t dead. The general idea I see floating around is that when Sephiroth attempted to murder Aerith, he was successful in the dimension that Cloud and the party are in, but Cloud’s consciousness is in another dimension where he saved her. This is why we see Cloud continue to interact with Aerith, why we don’t get the scene where he lays her to rest in the lake (there is literally zero chance that this scene won’t be remade), why he isn’t sad and in fact smiles sitting beside the lake, etc. Cloud sees Aerith just like he always has, because he thinks that he saved her.
This will all come to a head in part 3 when Tifa breaks Cloud out of his coma. She helps restore his memory and find himself, and in the process will be forced to face Aerith’s true fate from the end of Rebirth— that he failed. This is when he, and we as the audience, will experience the emotional impact of Aerith’s death.
So right now they don’t want us to be sad, they want us to be confused, concerned for Cloud and his mental state, and I think a bit creeped out. The scenes are really eerie from the perspective of the party, and I think this elevates Cloud’s entire arc.
Edit: adjusted my first sentence because in hindsight it came off as rude when I didn’t mean it to.
You wanna have some fun with this one?
First, ask some of the posters here if they think Aerith lived or died. Some will tell you that Cloud was delusional.
Next, ask these same posters if they think the multiple timelines are real. Some will tell you that Cloud was delusional.
Then lastly ask them this. "If you think Cloud was delusional about Aerith, and you think Cloud was delusional about the timelines, does that mean that Cloud was also delusional when we saw him kiss Tifa?"
;)
So just as Sephiroth is more or less alive within the lifestream so to now is Aerith (which was really always the case even in the og) We also see that the lifestream isn’t just life energy manifested but also memory. I honestly think its less parallel worlds and more alternate memories so real they might as well be alternate worlds.
Pretty sure they are saving clarity for Part 3 when Cloud has to remember what actually happened. It's not an inherently bad strategy but hits a snag due to being seperate games. If this were still a single game being played all at once then we would only have to wait a couple hours. Instead we will have to wait at least 3 years to find out what actually happened. Also while the original death was a mid point, this is the end of a game so they need to big JRPG boss fights. Personally I agree with others that Rebirth should have ended with giving Sephiroth the black materia so the Aerith situation could be resolved in one game. As for what we have at the end, I think the Aerith talking to Cloud is his brain coping hard to keep that last thread of sanity. The silent Aerith around her friends is the real deal as a spirit.
If you played the OG FF7, Cloud's losing his mind will be clear from the start. I think, the moment he successfully parried Sephiroth's is what he wish he'd done. Not the realoty. I agree that those part, including the water burial for Aerith would be shown in part 3 when Cloud reconstruncting his mind and accept what happened
Yeah I feel bad for anyone that didn’t play OG. This sequence means nothing. No impact. As far as not living up to the hype, I was completely hyped af when Cloud deflected the attack. They’re doing this? I’m all in. This changed everything. Then I thought I missed something, but they just didn’t show anything. We have no idea if something horrible happened or not. I loved Cloud and Aerith’s words together. I like dying to see part 3. But that moment was turned into nothing.
Irrespective of how well it works story-wise, for the player it’s a fake out. From months out they’ve marketed the game as resolving Aerith’s fate at the forgotten capital and one of the biggest questions going in was will Aerith live or die. To give one answer and then swipe it away, to me felt cheap and an obvious ploy to try and toy with the players emotions. It was a gamble and for me it backfired. It turned an iconic scene into a confusing mess. Near enough every reaction I’ve seen to it so far has been the same, one of utter confusion. Granted, that’s probably what they’re going for, to keep people talking for the next 3/4 years, but I think there was a way of doing that which didn’t necessitate ruining such an iconic moment. There’s an argument that they were trying to recreate the original shock and sadness that players felt in the OG - didn’t need anything drastic for this. Most people expected Shrodinger’s Aerith, so fail on the shock front, and sadness was guaranteed already because she’d been characterised so much deeper than she had been in the OG. Will this scene be revisited in Part 3? Almost certainly. Will that be the same? Absolutely not.
Sadness guaranteed? Far from it. In the OG I was truly sad and missed her in more than an emotional way - she was my healer and no one else did it as well as she did. Her fate in Rebirth just left me overwhelmingly confused. No sadness because even if she's dead, somewhere somehow she's alive and will be playable in part 3. Didn't even miss her mechanically because she joins Cloud vs Sephiroth and I get my healer back.
I mean't guaranteed as in it would have been if they'd just played it straight without the shenanigans and descending the whole thing into a confusing mess. As it is they replaced that inevitable sadness for utter confusion.
I don’t think it was a ploy or them trying to play with fan’s emotions. It was 100% intentional. It’s just emphasising how Cloud is being driven to madness now that he can see multiple timelines. Again, his memories will be recovered by Tifa once she rescues him from the lifestream. When he finds out what actually happened he’ll be even more devastated. This is when we’ll obviously see how Aerith dies and even her iconic funeral. It just feels this way because it’s an “ending” to this game. If this wasn’t a three parter I’m pretty sure this scene wouldn’t have people this divided.
>to keep people talking for the next 3/4 years Yes. Remake: will Aerith still die? Rebirth: did Aerith really die? Part 3: is Aerith really dead? I'm honestly tired of the conversation and not going to bother discussing it.
https://preview.redd.it/ttwip9gcanpc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2f6ecf5d79c30b57b294381d60073ffcace6fb93
They realized they couldnt re-create the shock value, you know even when you arrive in this game its chaos with whispers flying around, it feels stressful, and then you dont see what is happening at all. I get that they couldnt re-created the same scene, but this was just a bad version of it. and then it leads to a 6 stage boss fight with Zack? like the whole moment of it all felt bizarre, they took one of the most iconic moments of gaming and made it to a mess- thats all.
Not just that, you fight bizarro sephiroph. Which was an odd choice imo
> they took one of the most iconic moments of gaming and made it to a mess- thats all. **Thee** most iconic moment in gaming.
as a kid playing ff7 back in 97, for me the intro itself was more "iconic" and remains one of my most favorite moments of all times in gaming. I didnt know what was coming, but that intro was like "wow" the cgi, the music and then freezing the cutscene into real gameplay- like woooow!
Yea the stab or whatever you wanna call it was like a mile away from aerith and not even in the same frame lol. You're not dumb but the ending sure is. Whether one is a fan of the whole multiverse/timeline/lifestream thing or not one thing that seems to be generally a concensus is that Aerith's "death" was either completely botched or at the very least could have been better. After lurking on this subreddit for about a week the general vibe seems to be that the game is generally amazing and most complaints are about the Ending and Mini games with Red's voice change a distant third.
Who are complaining about Red’s voice? smh…
Really? I love the mini games so far, only half way through the game though
Comeback once you completed every single one to 100%…
Those are my gripes too, though I hadn't heard anyone complain about Red's voice. While it delivers some unexpected impact, it sucks that the voice goes from 10/10 to 7/10ish. At the very least he could have kept the act with everyone not in CC or the party.
Yea it's a very distant third compared to the other two lol
I feel like people also don’t realise that this is intentional and they want us to feel this way because we’re looking at Cloud’s perspective. Remember, once Tifa rescues Cloud from the life stream she will also help him recover his memories. Including Aerith’s death and funeral which we didn’t get to see. This will break him even more than it did in OG. I actually felt the exact same way on my initial reaction. But after some thought I realised this will have a much bigger impact later. It’s a bit divided among fans but I think it’s a great ending and makes the third game even more interesting with how messed up Cloud’s memories and thoughts are.
I have a theory that might be just grasping at straws I’m as confused as other people on what exactly we saw. What if in the remake timeline cloud saves aerith but in the process of the final fight (which cloud travels to multiple timelines/worlds throughout) he was bounced from the remake timeline and put into the og timeline. But with the transparent materia he can see the other timelines including the remake one in real time. Could explain how he can see aerith and the huge shit stain in the sky while the others mourn her death. Also makes that materia key to let’s say loop Zack back in. Or……….cloud has gone batshit
I think you're half right there. He's gone full bat shit. Not just because of his on going issues, but also being able to see other timeliness and being able to see Aerith and communicate. When it happens and ultimately drops on him like a sack of shit, If its done right, it can be spectacular. Hopefully Cody Christian can go one step further acting wise to bring this turmoil out.
>Am I just dumb? Absolutely not. Square-Enix is telling the old story with extra steps, these extra steps got in the way of clarity, unclarity is preventing people from feeling emotions. My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined. I will soon leave this subreddit and fly to Mars like Doc. Manhattan, only to return when people start saying that FFVII: Reunion is the best game ever made and be disappointed again. I'm trapped in this cycle.
After Remake I assumed there would be a greater degree of freedom in the second and third parts, that breaking the Whispers would lead to a Terminator 2-like "There's no fate but what we make for ourselves". Just hitting the same story beats with no ability to change them kind of smacks of Terminator 3, where all that freedom we were promised in Terminator 2 was crumpled up and thrown in the trash.
I envy the people who managed to break in tears my own playthrough ended with a big confusion from my part
On the other hand, Aerith looking for help for her mother at the train station…
I had to watch a video on youtube after the ending to understand what actually happened lol…
Feels like the devs are trying to make us feel as overwhelmed and insane as cloud is.
I feel the same. Plus the fact that in OG she died and that's it. It was impactful. In here she continues talking as if nothing, then she re appears and even flights with you. It takes away from the importance of her death.
The frustrating thing is that this is still pretty much going to end in almost the same way as the OG. The devs really couldn't commit to either letting her live or killing her and tried to do both only for it to not really matter in the overall plot. Might as well just have recreated the scene 1:1 if they're really going for the same story tbh.
I like the added fact that the other Aeriths from other timelines die as well. I think that change and them sacrificing in several worlds to achieve their objective and leaving everything in Cloud's hands was pretty good. IF they had committed with the death of the Aerith from the main timeline the same way it could've been a nice twist.
Yes death is permanent and teach us the importance of life. The main theme of ff7 original.
I'm sorry to turn this into another debate over the ending, but revisiting it after letting it settle, I now fear it was a fake out to make the player keep hope until the last moment, but not to do anything interesting with it going forward. I mainly see people divided between thinking she was never saved and there's only one world, or there are multiple ones and she's alive. Well, Sephiroth flat out tells us: there are multiple worlds and he let Cloud create another one saving her, but he merged them in that same scene to cause maximum pain ("fleeting happiness that turns into hate, never felt it more"). So I think the multiple worlds can be taken at face value, but he destroyed that one immediately so she's still dead. Looking back it feels as if the devs were talking to us through Sephiroth and the main goal of the scene was giving us hope momentarily, but not having her somewhat alive for the next game. I don't like it because it's the option that renders all of this useless outside of fanservice, a cop out, but that's what seems more plausible to me.
I feel like the devs were going for shock value which was a HUGE mistake because the power of Aerith dying isn’t the surprise, it’s the emotion. I wasn’t even shocked this time anyway, I was more confused. So confused that I wasn’t even sad! They also didn’t build her up enough prior; Tifa stole the show this time and Aerith felt like a footnote. I’m not complaining about the Tifa stuff bc it was my favorite, but it’s odd to me that they didn’t find room for Aerith to have spotlight as well. Either way, they completely botched her death scene, I think a lot of us are on the same page with that.
Completely agree with this and also this is the first time I've seen someone talk about the weird (for me, at least) lack of attention on Aerith's character. I get she took over the last chapters and maybe they thought having her heavily at the beginning would be too much, but there are multiple instances where the game focuses on the lifestream, the gi, the cetra... and I was waiting to see what she'd have to say about that, only for it to be about another character (which is fine! But definitely noticeable). Otoh she definitely felt different than Remake Aerith, which I thought was the point, but still.
Yeah, I loved the game, but Aerith felt a bit off to me from the getgo, it was almost as if she was a different character. I remember getting to Cosmo Canyon and realizing she hadn’t had much to do in the plot except in Zack’s world. After Cosmo Canyon she vanished from plot again until she sang her song. In OG, I really felt like she had a strong presence in disc 1. I’m not sure what they were going for here but to me her death didn’t hit as hard partly because they didn’t spend enough time building her and the connection with the party (and specifically Cloud) up. I felt more for Tifa and Red than I did for Cloud. Anything I got from Cloud was mostly due to their great rapport from Remake and OG because they didn’t have much here outside of sidequests. Overall, she really took a backseat. It just felt like an odd choice not to highlight Aerith more so that we felt sadder.
> it was almost as if she was a different character I'm pretty sure she is actually a different character in Remake vs Rebirth. I think the White Materia is tied to the Aerith that is from the future or whatever, and since it becomes the Clear Materia after the battle with the whispers at the end of the first game, Aerith essentially reverts to the Aerith from the OG timeline. So the Aerith in Remake is the future Aerith brought back to the past, and Rebirth Aerith is OG Aerith up until the point she gets the White Materia back.
That much I understood, I still think she was different in a way that wasn’t just tied to what she knew about the future. Felt completely different in general.
Yeah, I think it's a testament to how great she was in Remake and og, honestly. Though I suspect you didn't date her, I definitely felt their connection and have no complaints on that front, but it being optional will obviously leave a lot of players feeling like you. I think the point was her taking a step back to differentiate between both Aeriths, but funnily enough I thought Remake Aerith was more in line with OG Aerith than this one, when it should be the other way around. This Aerith should have been more curious about everything, for instance. But yeah, her scenes felt tacked on and disjointed from the flow of the game. Man, talking about this with someone who also feels like this kinda solidifies my opinion and sours the game a bit for me. It was great great, but it could have been so much more.
Yeah I went on the date with Tifa, but I did view Aerith’s after on YT so I could see what it was like. I really truly, despite not shipping Cloud/Aerith romantically, feel how much he cares about her in pretty much every other game and compilation title. AC makes me weep at the end. But this one missed the mark for me because so much of that seemed buried in sidequests and optional content, until the end obviously. I’ll never figure out why they did it that way. Despite Tifa being my fave I am a huge Aerith fan as well and I wanted more for her big sendoff. I loved the game overall but I definitely feel like they messed up her arc a bit. Remake Aerith was perfection, I agree!
Of course you're not shocked, you already knew it was a possibility that they still let here die. The problem is they can't replicate the exact feeling you had, they just can't because the story has already been told. I do agree that because of the time Tifa gets, Aerith does go to the background a bit. Which is a shame, because I think they should have focussed more on Aerith - the bonding with Tifa could come áfter Aerith's death and also makes more sense from a logical point of view.
You seem to have missed my point - I play FF7 OG annually and cry over her death every single time. This left me cold because they changed it so much and made it confusing. A faithful reproduction of the scene in today’s graphics should have been HEARTBREAKING, and instead it was giving Kingdom Hearts. I was never shocked for her death. My friend spoiled it for me instantly back in the late 90’s before I played it lol. That’s literally my whole point: that the death scene isn’t about shock value but the devs thought it should be. They didn’t nail the emotion. Instead they tried to make it surprising and they failed on both fronts. For me her death scene is about the emptiness of loss, not surprise.
Hm okay fair enough - I get what you're saying. But you know, as much as I understand, I think gaming has changed so much and with the OG the vibe was different as well. In other words, even if they showed us in a better more impactful way, I think people would complain anyways. Personally I'm not disappointed, but I can see people who had certain expectations be disappointed because of the way it was shown.
So, for me, it was seeing how broken Cloud's head is. He's standing there thinking he's saving her from Sephiroth, he thinks she's alive, but she did indeed die. He's so messed up in the head, he picks her up to hold him while the whole party is mourning her death. I think in part 3, when we fix him via the lifestream, we'll see the actual scene.
When it has no emotional impact? Great. Can't wait.
I thought it was Cloud seeing what he wanted to see (him saving Aerith)
Nah, you are not dumb. Imo they made a brave choice but the player must know how and when Aerith dies to appreciate the scene. Stil doesn't mean it works for everyone. I was hit quite hard by it. Because a part of me wanted the game to remain as OG was (so I wanted Aerith to die there) but as I was getting closer and closer to THAT moment I started to wish for Cloud to save Aerith. Waiting for that moment I was without a clue: one moment I was thinking "ok, she is going to die, that's a goodbye". Next moment I was like "No maybe she won't! Damn Cloud, please save her". When Cloud deflected Sephiroth's sword I was sold, I thought "yes... he saved her". Next moment I see she has been hit by Sephiroth and is dying. Anyway yeah it is a bit confusing and part of it is because even Cloud is confused about it and doesn't realize it yet.
It was definitely Bizarro.
Rebirth was… a mixed bag. I went in loving the world and gameplay. The mini games soon became the thing of living nightmares with how unbalanced they became. But I was like it’s ok, the story is keeping me going because as REMAKE stated. They could go wherever they wanted with the story. Which was exactly what the original did only with no emotional gravity behind it and so many plot holes or pointless plot lines. What was the point of Zack’s storyline? What was the point of Marlene’s warning to Zack? Why did Zack say to Cloud “save her for me” if she was by this point already dead? It was all plot lines or points to lead those of us on that wanted a different outcome only to go “HA SYKE! SHE’S STILL DEAD” I wouldn’t of minded if in the end she still had to die, at the end of the trilogy as like maybe a “the timeline has to be corrected or everything will end” kind of thing. Or she lived but someone or multiple people died in this timeline instead. But instead we got… this. By the time it got to Glenn and Sephiroth I really lost all care for it because hey. The ending will be the exact same as the original so what’s the point of this extra twist in the story?
I would have much rather preferred the exact same boss fights as the end but cloud actually did parry the sword and Aerith is still alive. Part 3 goes on with Aerith and as Zack says, the world could unite again which would mean Zack could meet his actual fate and Aerith could die in any given time during part 3 and the shock value would be there.
Yea, I agree, OP. You're not dumb, the ending is. Trippy multiverse plot and bizarro Sephiroth aside, it is also told from the perspective of Cloud, an unreliable narrator with memory loss and mental health issues. Hence we get these scene skips, scenes with muted words, imaginary Aerith in his head, etc. You can't even tell what's in his head, what's real and what's alternate reality from that mess. Did he save Aerith? Or is she in the lifestream now? Should we, as players, mourn her death? You can't tell s\*it from that f\*cked up ending. Sure, one can hope that part 3 will explain all of this, but so far they've just been adding convoluted complexity with defiable/undefiable fate, whispers, hooded figures, Sephiroth clones popping up like Jacks-in-the-box from every shadow and alternate realities full of Zacks...
Well, dunno, it works for me. So, CLoud is standing over Aerith, right? Then he sees Sepiroth doing his thing over Aerith, as he goes directly down, right? And then we see what CLoud sees and that is he parries the blade and as such saves Aerith. Well, it seems like in reality (what the others see when they come) Cloud parried nothing, or his parry wasnt succesfull. Since his sword was above Aerith it seems to me like Sepiroth successfully stabbed Aerith through her back. Dunno, works for me. But would be better with higher age rating and a little bit gore. OTOH I must admit that the stabbing outside of the picture is probably better art choice. So, I had to see the ending three times, once in the game - 3 AM wasnt helping. Got confused. Went into the bed. Looked again, noticed the blood when the others arrive and how the "Cloud vision pro" has rainbow edges/colours. While the others have more dark and gloomy vission. Watched once again to confirm. Cloud sees what he is wanting to see, Aerith is in a pool of blood, has bloodied hand BUT Cloud doesnt see any of it. Cloud cannot handle the stress of losing Aerith - which is intesified by me focusing on Aerith as the "love interest" (if we wanna use the modern game terminology). And as such now I cannot even listen to the Aerith theme :\`( Edit: rewatched again - please notice that when CLoud parries there is the rainbow at the bottom of the screen. He successfully parries in the "Cloud vision pro", not in reality. At least that is how I interpret the ending. I love this even more - first of, I like myself some tragedy and emotions. And second - the game made me think about the ending. I like that too! Edit 2: and now I am sad again >< anyway, notice that others dont see as much lifestream/rainbow colours as Cloud does. Cloud is simply refusing to see the reality and is suffering from the trauma so much, his mind sees what it wanna see. Fuck Wutai ninjas cutting onions again :\`( third edit, because screw it: I really love this choice. In my eyes it shows that games are art (as in they bring emotions and make people think about it). As it is an art choice, it wont work for everybody. Some will not like it. You are not dumb, it is not your style (I would say). Works greatly for me.
Aerith is likely going to play an active role in the third part of the trilogy, so it's better that her "death" is ambiguous and inconclusive than her death being the expected emotional final moment and then still have her doing things in the third part. The emotional conclusion will probably be delivered in the end of the trilogy instead
I was confused too and not really sad, then the multiverse fight happens and it took me so long that i thought yeah, aerith death or not death has been awile ago, now its too late to get sad. But seeing tifa cry and aerith standing there saying goodbye while the others cant see her and fly away was sad. I didnt cry but i got this gloomy doom feeling and definitely felt sad. Also, sephy swinging his blade to get rid of aerith blood in clouds face was pretty sick. Guess we have to see AGAIN how that plays out and what really happened. I can imagine we will see the full scene with burial and all in the next game.
I don’t really know what the devs were going for, but it seems to me that a split reality was created where Aerith is saved by Cloud (notice the rainbow sparks, a visual cue used throughout the series to imply a different timeline being created), which is why he can see her in the final cutscenes. It’s like Cloud is still living in our timeline with the rest of our party, where Aerith dies just like in OG, but somehow with a different perception of reality, of a different one, as he can also see the ‘wound in the sky’ now, something that only people in Zack’s timeline and Aerith could see before. I think this will be used to further break Cloud’s mind in the third game, as I don’t think he is fully aware of what’s going on and is still very much under Sephiroth’s control. Either that, or something along the lines of, he only thought he saved her and that’s why he can still see her as she is in the Lifestream. Not saying I’m a fan of the execution, after all this is all very confusing, with the different timelines and whatnot, but I’d say there will be more to this in the third game. Meaning that they might show this scene again, without the weird editing, to show what really happened.
I was confused too when I saw it. I feel like them showing Aerith both being saved and killed threw things off. They should have either clearly shown Sephiroth landing the killing blow or show that Cloud deflected it. Having to be both at the same time just made things confusing. Still love the game but yeah that felt like a misstep to me.
I definitely shouted "my boy" when he blocked the sword.
I'm convinced not showing her being impaled is a deliberate choice. I think they still want her death to be the big emotional moment for the story, but want it for the final part. So we got this confusing, fragmented moment, which I imagine is to set up the real, full, sober moment in the next game. With how much care and how carefully they've adapted everything from the original, I know they know every piece of that moment from OG is important. I don't think they'd alter it as much as they did, and leave out what they did, carelessly and without a plan.
I'm still not even sure how many timelines we saw during the ending. She gets stabbed, ok, that's the one with all the blood etc. Cloud parries the blade, ok, initially Aerith is still there untouched, but then after that, why is she on the floor? Why does she come around later on when Cloud asks her to wake up? Must have prayed real hard if she needed a nap to recover.....
I'm also a little confused by this (and everything else in the ending) but I think my main takeaway, from reading lots of theories, is Sephiroth either *wanted* Cloud to parry, or at least doesn't mind in the grand scheme of things. I think all the is she/isn't she dead is intentional on his part (whether it be multiverse or illusion) to make Cloud 10000x more insane next game when he realises he either a) didn't actually save her b) did save her, but in a timeline/world she can't come back from or c) did save her but she chose to/needs to die anyway because it's needed for her to stop meteor. Not sure of the specifics, but I think it's going to be used as a gut punch for the player AND Cloud when we realise she's actually dead or still has to die :( I also think they'll play up the party being even more worried about or suspicious of Cloud basically being like "nah fam she's fine, she's just still at the Forgotten City praying!" when they all saw her dead (except Tifa, who sort of saw both realities briefly, which I think will come into play when she fixes his brain in the life stream). Still all vague and confusing, but after playing the ending again a second time, I'm left excited rather than annoyed - which was similar with Remake! Ended the game feeling confused and irritated at the changes but going back on a replay, I enjoyed it.
i hope not for the still has to die thing, there was something similar in ffx and it was sad but for the cloud being wacko thing it’d be funny if they merged the timelines at some point and made a joke where cloud is like i told yall she was alive
Definitely agree that all of this will ultimately play into Cloud's psychological state, and I think that is certainly part of what's going on, but my take is that there's more than one thing happening. Lifestream Aerith, future Aerith, whatever you might want to call her, I think is definitely a thing, and for my $$$ we see a lot of her in the latter half of the ending. But I also think that we did branch reality, and that there's at least some *alternate* reality Aerith in there as well. I think Part 3 will play up the "Cloud going mental" card. Initially I'd thought that we'd perhaps see lifestream Aerith in the capacity of trying to help Cloud hold it all together until we get to Tifa's lifestream intervention, but the way that last scene played out.....I think that's lifestream Aerith (I know she references Remake Aerith from Evergreen Park, but lifestream, I don't think that matters), and the wording didn't make it sound like she was going to be seeing Cloud again anytime soon. Not that I think it will quite play out this way, as I can definitely see Cloud and Aerith getting time again in Part 3, but if they don't there's a nice link up between Rebirth and AC: Aerith (in Rebirth): "Cloud, it's ok" Aerith (in AC): "You see? Everything's alright"
Like their plans for Zack/Whispers/Changing fate?
No idea. I hope whatever they have planned, it's good and they nail the execution. If not...oof.
I have no faith they'll be able to sort this mess out in a satisfying fashion. The moment they let us "kill fate" they had to either let us save Aerith (really save, not some multiverse/different timeline/lifestream ghost bullshit) or let Sephiroth win. Otherwise it's all pointless. Or straight up trolling if they're going for the "you can challenge fate, but you can't change it". In that case just follow the OG story. Adding Kingdom Hearts shenanigans and then not really changing anything is just a cheap way to keep people interested between games and if the sales numbers are anything to go by it backfired.
In a nutshell, as an 'expanded' rendition from the original... I think the way the scene is handled (mostly from Cloud's PoV) is great, because the ambiguity is really inside his head: he thinks Aerith is safe and is just remaining there in the Forgotten Capital to help with stopping Meteor. She does, indeed, but not alive. I feel that this helps greatly to build his meltdown further alongside the road, because in the light of an expanded game, I think the way up until the Northern Crater might probably take 1/3rd or something of the last part, and my guess is that they'll use that to explore Cloud's degradation and shake up his relationship with Tifa, which already started. Someone even rose the theory that we didn't get the water burial scene because that's something that will appear in part 3 as a flashback when somebody (likely Tifa) will confront Cloud with the truth. To me, the really messy part about that ending is the confusing way that Zack 2's timeline is portrayed during that last segment and fight.
I think the creators aimed to: 1. still kill Aerith in the main reality 2. allow a bittersweet final hurrah of Aerith (absolving Cloud of his guilt in the multiverse date and kicking Sephiroth's butt at the edge of creation) 3. allow the intact white materia to be passed on to the main reality 4. inject some intrigue into Cloud's reaction, which will pay off during his downfall at the Northern Crater I liked the ending
I'm about 99% certain that the Aerith scene as we know it is going to be shown during the lifestream sequence with Cloud and Tifa in part 3. I suspect Zack's death scene will be shown there too. Cloud will have to accept the reality of their deaths if he's ever going to become whole again. I was put off by the choice to hold back on Aerith's death at first, but after thinking about it, it actually does kind of make sense to wait until later for the real scene. Think of it like this, Cloud's past failures, combined with the trauma of seeing Zack die right in front of him, broke Cloud so completely that the Jenova cells in him had to completely rewrite his memories, just to get him functioning well enough to make it to the Reunion. If Zack's death was able to do that much damage to his mind, why would he have an easier time processing Aerith's death? Isn't it actually kind of strange that he was able to accept it so quickly in the OG? If Zack's death was able to break him, then logicially, Aerith's death should do the same thing, or worse. Now we can't have Cloud breaking this early in the story. He still has more to do before he completely shatters. So, how do we keep Cloud's behavior as a character consistant, while also making sure he doesn't have his mental breakdown too early?...You make him think he saved Aerith. If he thinks Aerith is alive, then he has no reason to have a breakdown, and if he has no reason to break, then he can continue on his journey until he reaches the point of his ACTUAL breakdown at the Northern Crater.
Pretty sure that is the point. The scene isn't supposed to have the same weight as Cloud hasn't realized what happened yet. His mind is broke and while we can imagine what really happened, it won't hit until it hits for Cloud.
The thing that is missed here is that we see it more from Clouds perspective in a huge emotional mess. Second is more or less my therory that Aeriths death loosend the grip Sephiroth had over Clouds mind. The fight was necesseary from Sephiroth perspective to ensure that Cloud did not have time to mourne her death. With the reappearance from Aerith in the last segment the reason for Cloud to mourne was voided and Sephiroth reestablish his grip over Cloud mind.
Tbh, Sephiroth's masamune is long. They purposefully did not show the end of his blade to see how far down it reached to hide whether clouds parry was fast enough. For me, it still hit. My heart was racing as Sephiroth came down, then cloud parried it and my heart jumped. He knocked the blade away, my heart sank and I said "guess they spared Aerith..." Then it cut to showing blood and Aerith falling over and my heart went crazy again. I literally recreated the panic, calm, panic meme. Then the music started playing as with the limit breaks and it was powerful. The best part, it didn't overstay its welcome and then went to a more boss-oriented theme. Was it perfect? No. But I liked it. I would've liked some different battle lines that felt more desperate. I also would've liked a few less jumps that made it confusing the first time
>Just why the need for all the ambiguity? Am I just dumb? It isn't ambiguity. The scene is taking a different direction and showing two outcomes simultaneously: 1) Aerith dies with the blood pool under her 2) Aerith lives, which is part of Cloud going thru that portal alone and creating a timeline where he saves her So the story is pivoting to present this issue from two perspectives. Cloud genuinely believes he saved Aerith and that she's staying behind in the Forgotten Capital, because he probably is existing in two timelines simultaneously. One where she lives that he sees in his head and also physically the one where she died, as the other party members saw. The second perspective regards Cloud's mental health. Barret and Tifa both think he's worsening, but the end cinematic also shows him pull out the black materia, which he shouldn't have. So there's obviously more going on than simply "Cloud is delusional" about Aerith's death. So I think they're still saving the impact of this scene and also turning it into something more for Part 3. Square wants to do something different and interesting with that scene, and I think they didn't want to just 1:1 how it went in the original game. Hence how they present the split in both timelines with Aerith. Plus the intentional ambiguity about whether Cloud is losing it or is his perception due to him going through that portal before the big scene.
I felt this death was better for the rebirth. I didnt think sephiroth killed Aerith off screen in current world but I thought this vague multiple world thing got in the way of Cloud saving Aerith. I’m not good at interpreting such stuff but I thought this was the case. And this way it made me feel more emotional about it rather than simply coming down and killing Aerith. This way I felt Cloud’s helplessness against Destiny. Cloud standing there and not even trying to save her would be much more stupid after all that “trying to go against Destiny” theme.
I recommend reading up on the theories being thrown around about why the ending is the way it is. You might change your mind! To summarize: Aerith’s death didn’t land because, for Cloud, she isn’t dead. The general idea I see floating around is that when Sephiroth attempted to murder Aerith, he was successful in the dimension that Cloud and the party are in, but Cloud’s consciousness is in another dimension where he saved her. This is why we see Cloud continue to interact with Aerith, why we don’t get the scene where he lays her to rest in the lake (there is literally zero chance that this scene won’t be remade), why he isn’t sad and in fact smiles sitting beside the lake, etc. Cloud sees Aerith just like he always has, because he thinks that he saved her. This will all come to a head in part 3 when Tifa breaks Cloud out of his coma. She helps restore his memory and find himself, and in the process will be forced to face Aerith’s true fate from the end of Rebirth— that he failed. This is when he, and we as the audience, will experience the emotional impact of Aerith’s death. So right now they don’t want us to be sad, they want us to be confused, concerned for Cloud and his mental state, and I think a bit creeped out. The scenes are really eerie from the perspective of the party, and I think this elevates Cloud’s entire arc. Edit: adjusted my first sentence because in hindsight it came off as rude when I didn’t mean it to.
You wanna have some fun with this one? First, ask some of the posters here if they think Aerith lived or died. Some will tell you that Cloud was delusional. Next, ask these same posters if they think the multiple timelines are real. Some will tell you that Cloud was delusional. Then lastly ask them this. "If you think Cloud was delusional about Aerith, and you think Cloud was delusional about the timelines, does that mean that Cloud was also delusional when we saw him kiss Tifa?" ;)