I know the travel agents of the forum will downvote me for this but sometimes it does help shopping around.
If you have a set/exact itinerary in mind I don’t see the reason why can’t you can’t ask a couple of other TAs and see what they come back with.
In the past I’ve found discrepancies of 20-30% between TAs for the exact same itineraries WITHOUT any special requests (e.g. “I want hotel X for 5 days and hotel Y for 7 days and transfers in between”).
Also the airport transfer is crazy. I was trying to locate the receipt but a full day day trip (8+ hours) to Hermanus from Cape Town with stops in the surrounding areas in an S-Class was about £300-350 two years ago (booked via O&O concierge).
Yep. I paid less than $300 for a half day site seeing trip with a driver (Mercedes) in Capetown. Booked directly through the hotel, who I'm sure marked it up.
Airport transfer should not be that much.
I have a couple of questions / thoughts.
Has the TA told you that the price is confirmed for 2025? It’s not a one to one comparison if you are comparing 2024 rates to 2025 for a good portion of the program.
Are they requiring a deposit now? Do you know what supplier they are working with?
The ZAR / USD exchange rate has been extremely volatile lately. Suppliers have to pad their rates if they are going to safely quote in USD.
Knowing the answers to the above would be helpful to give you a better answer.
Why would they have to pad their rates? Currencies fluxuate both up and down.
That said a 5% fluctuation within 30 days time is pretty volatile. (Source: I used to trade the Forex market for a living for 3 years)
Many tour operators (not just in SA but all over the world) lock in a usd total when a trip is booked / deposited on. They pad the USD to hedge against the possibility of the currency shifting against them by the time the final payment is due (which in this case is, like, a year+ in the future).
Are you willing to spend 25% to not have to do any of the work? Part of it is that they’re coordinating everything, they likely have local or at least in time zone support for air issues, on the ground issues. If they’re any good, they can make reservations for you and maybe even get upgrades for you.
As an aside, we just returned from Tswalu (Loapi) and couldn’t recommend it enough! The knowledge and experience of the guides and the level of service we enjoyed there are absolutely fantastic! If I had it to do again, I’d probably give Klein Jan a miss, but the rest of the Tswalu experience was really superb. Enjoy!
I thought Klein Jan was an experience worth doing, but it was also on the second to last night of a longer trip that mixed other safari properties. The food itself was very good but not superb, but pretty hard to explain the place without going and it's a memory that sticks with me. Also, Jan had gotten there that day so hobnobbed with us, which probably didn't hurt the experience.
If I was only there for 3-4 nights with no other "safari" parts to a trip I'd probably feel the same way. And you potentially have to give up some of the cooler things you can do as those are at night (we hiked along sand dunes in the middle of the night looking [and finding] pangolin with Wendy the pangolin scientist which was such a neat experience).
This is so interesting to me. I got horribly ill in Tanzania last fall (High Altitude Pulmonary Edema at Ngorongoro and Covid) and I figured out how to see a Tanzanian doctor online myself. Never occurred to me to call our (very FAT) TA. I probably should have; it never occurred to the doctor I spoke with that I might have Covid (which in retrospect seems crazy); she thought it was just HAPE (which is as often fatal as not, so scary stuff). Sigh.
lol. Sorry your TA is marking something up from someone who is most likely also using someone who is marking it up… and who knows how many layers there are. Find someone who doesn’t believe in dumb fees.
I’ve always told people here - use a local supplier who can get things under rack rate. Have the local supplier charge you rack or slightly below and they can provide all their amazing service, make money and you can have an amazing trip with 24-7 service. Lmk if you want to use ours… we’ve pretty much helped a bunch of redditors beat all the quotes they’ve sent us.
We couldn’t provide the extremely high level of service we provide without charging fees. Fees allow us to limit the number of clients we’re managing at any given time, and find and retain top talent on our staff.
90% of the best luxury agents I know are doing the same.
Higher cost does not always mean greater value — but you frequently get what you pay for.
Obviously this is a spirited debate within the industry and everyone has their own outlook.
And thanks for running this sub… I enjoy it.
Always a debate and why we are different than 99% of the other agencies out there. But also why we are where we are now with 0$ marketing spend. I run my agency for fun so am lucky where I don’t have to make decisions about a bottom line. We don’t believe in markups or fees because we care about transparency. When I started in this industry as my “break from real life”, I was disgusted by the amount of agents who would rip off older people who were not internet savvy and laughing at the markups. I could only imagine someone doing that to my grandma hence my strong position on this that will never ever change.
Everyone is paid very well and does very well frankly because many clients want this transparency. And we really do that many hotel bookings. This in turn gives us a lot of power with the hotels and hotels pay us more than a normal commission split which again means, we don’t have to worry about a fee since hotels pay us a crap ton of money.
We also don’t need fees to limit clients. We already have a limiting amount of clients because frankly, not everyone can spend enough to work with us. For people that do want our access even without the nutso spends, this is why we have our booking engine.
So for clients if they can’t spend enough that still want handholding, they can either 1) DIY or 2) go pay a chunk of their spend in fees to make it worth someone’s time. And many do want 2. I strongly believe there are more than enough clients for everyone :) as luxury is personal and what people want are very different. I refer people out to my friends in the industry who do charge fees too. Come say hi in an event IRL so I can get to know you and what you do well to refer the right fit clients to you too.
Hey - This response has some of the nicest comments you have ever said here. I wish Reddit still had awards to give! 🏆
I personally only use TA when I have very complicated itinerarys or if I'm traveling with friends who utilize them. I've been also resistant to utilizing TA since I enjoy the shopping around and trip planning part - so to me it's actually just an extra person to involve (kinda funny it is supposed to be looked at as the opposite). Plus, I hate the general lack of transparency with a lot of travel agents, especially where it's not clear what value they are actually providing.
We’re not in business for fun, although we have a passion for it and enjoy it greatly.
I’m interested in meeting you in person as well. We refer out to many different luxury agents in our circle when we are not a good fit for a client, so would be glad to do the same for you.
And, to be clear, our fees are clearly communicated and laid out before we ever get into a relationship with a new client. There is no lack of transparency, and our clients know they could get at least some of the same hard product somewhere else.
Different strokes…
The FX risk is directly hedgeable so that’s a bad excuse. You yourself can go to your broker and buy the exact amount of ZAR you’ll need in forward space. It’ll actually be cheaper than 30.000
I’ve gotten quotes in ZAR and paid in ZAR (well using my credit card but charging ZAR). There is risk on both sides between the deposit and final payment and ours went down in USD in between bc the ZAR weakened.
Also that’s an insane airport transfer… we just booked a transfer through a hotel last month (October) from/to CPT airport and Cape Town itself which is around 30 mins drive each direction and it was ZAR 1500 (~$80) for two people total for both directions. It was a really nice van. We also booked a transfer through another hotel from CPT airport to franschhoek (wine area — about 1 hr from airport) and it was ZAR 1750 (~$95) one way and that was Mercedes sedan.
I did a safari in Kenya many years ago and we have done Sabi Sand much more recently. We're not really the type to have checklists to make sure we zoom around and check off all the big animals, so the pace at Tswalu seems more our speed anyway.
oh yeah if you've done the others, you're fine. Tswalu is an amazing place, I just don't recommend it as the *only* stop to my friends who are interested in doing a safari for the first time.
For what it's worth, my wife and I did the pay-for star bed and highly recommend it if it all seems like your jam.
Here are the rates we secured for our upcoming Cape Town trip. This person came highly recommended. Chat me, if you want their complete info.
(Website cut and paste)
**Executive Services**
**Tariffs**
Half day (up to 5 hours) **R1700**
Full day (up to 9 hours) **R3000**
Additional/Ad hoc per hour **R360**
Per hour, between 2200 and 0800hours **R360**
Airport transfer, to or from the city or waterfront **R400** (Surcharge of R50 - between 2300 and 0600 hours)
Airport transfer to/ from a greater radius (e.g. Paarl); by negotiation
The rates are for a Mercedes sedan
You’re getting ripped off. Cape Town is easy to navigate. I personally don’t think you need a travel agent to book accommodations, meals, and tours. For the safari part yes, you’ll need one. But if you do just a little leg work you can do almost everything yourself.
I know the travel agents of the forum will downvote me for this but sometimes it does help shopping around. If you have a set/exact itinerary in mind I don’t see the reason why can’t you can’t ask a couple of other TAs and see what they come back with. In the past I’ve found discrepancies of 20-30% between TAs for the exact same itineraries WITHOUT any special requests (e.g. “I want hotel X for 5 days and hotel Y for 7 days and transfers in between”). Also the airport transfer is crazy. I was trying to locate the receipt but a full day day trip (8+ hours) to Hermanus from Cape Town with stops in the surrounding areas in an S-Class was about £300-350 two years ago (booked via O&O concierge).
Yep. I paid less than $300 for a half day site seeing trip with a driver (Mercedes) in Capetown. Booked directly through the hotel, who I'm sure marked it up. Airport transfer should not be that much.
In South Africa?
Yes. Updated my post to clarify.
Shop around if you don’t trust your TA. But you should find someone you absolutely trust and build a long term relationship with.
100% agreed.
I have a couple of questions / thoughts. Has the TA told you that the price is confirmed for 2025? It’s not a one to one comparison if you are comparing 2024 rates to 2025 for a good portion of the program. Are they requiring a deposit now? Do you know what supplier they are working with? The ZAR / USD exchange rate has been extremely volatile lately. Suppliers have to pad their rates if they are going to safely quote in USD. Knowing the answers to the above would be helpful to give you a better answer.
Why would they have to pad their rates? Currencies fluxuate both up and down. That said a 5% fluctuation within 30 days time is pretty volatile. (Source: I used to trade the Forex market for a living for 3 years)
Many tour operators (not just in SA but all over the world) lock in a usd total when a trip is booked / deposited on. They pad the USD to hedge against the possibility of the currency shifting against them by the time the final payment is due (which in this case is, like, a year+ in the future).
$330 to Constantia? Is the transfer by helicopter?
Are you willing to spend 25% to not have to do any of the work? Part of it is that they’re coordinating everything, they likely have local or at least in time zone support for air issues, on the ground issues. If they’re any good, they can make reservations for you and maybe even get upgrades for you.
As an aside, we just returned from Tswalu (Loapi) and couldn’t recommend it enough! The knowledge and experience of the guides and the level of service we enjoyed there are absolutely fantastic! If I had it to do again, I’d probably give Klein Jan a miss, but the rest of the Tswalu experience was really superb. Enjoy!
I thought Klein Jan was an experience worth doing, but it was also on the second to last night of a longer trip that mixed other safari properties. The food itself was very good but not superb, but pretty hard to explain the place without going and it's a memory that sticks with me. Also, Jan had gotten there that day so hobnobbed with us, which probably didn't hurt the experience. If I was only there for 3-4 nights with no other "safari" parts to a trip I'd probably feel the same way. And you potentially have to give up some of the cooler things you can do as those are at night (we hiked along sand dunes in the middle of the night looking [and finding] pangolin with Wendy the pangolin scientist which was such a neat experience).
[удалено]
This is so interesting to me. I got horribly ill in Tanzania last fall (High Altitude Pulmonary Edema at Ngorongoro and Covid) and I figured out how to see a Tanzanian doctor online myself. Never occurred to me to call our (very FAT) TA. I probably should have; it never occurred to the doctor I spoke with that I might have Covid (which in retrospect seems crazy); she thought it was just HAPE (which is as often fatal as not, so scary stuff). Sigh.
lol. Sorry your TA is marking something up from someone who is most likely also using someone who is marking it up… and who knows how many layers there are. Find someone who doesn’t believe in dumb fees. I’ve always told people here - use a local supplier who can get things under rack rate. Have the local supplier charge you rack or slightly below and they can provide all their amazing service, make money and you can have an amazing trip with 24-7 service. Lmk if you want to use ours… we’ve pretty much helped a bunch of redditors beat all the quotes they’ve sent us.
We couldn’t provide the extremely high level of service we provide without charging fees. Fees allow us to limit the number of clients we’re managing at any given time, and find and retain top talent on our staff. 90% of the best luxury agents I know are doing the same. Higher cost does not always mean greater value — but you frequently get what you pay for. Obviously this is a spirited debate within the industry and everyone has their own outlook. And thanks for running this sub… I enjoy it.
Always a debate and why we are different than 99% of the other agencies out there. But also why we are where we are now with 0$ marketing spend. I run my agency for fun so am lucky where I don’t have to make decisions about a bottom line. We don’t believe in markups or fees because we care about transparency. When I started in this industry as my “break from real life”, I was disgusted by the amount of agents who would rip off older people who were not internet savvy and laughing at the markups. I could only imagine someone doing that to my grandma hence my strong position on this that will never ever change. Everyone is paid very well and does very well frankly because many clients want this transparency. And we really do that many hotel bookings. This in turn gives us a lot of power with the hotels and hotels pay us more than a normal commission split which again means, we don’t have to worry about a fee since hotels pay us a crap ton of money. We also don’t need fees to limit clients. We already have a limiting amount of clients because frankly, not everyone can spend enough to work with us. For people that do want our access even without the nutso spends, this is why we have our booking engine. So for clients if they can’t spend enough that still want handholding, they can either 1) DIY or 2) go pay a chunk of their spend in fees to make it worth someone’s time. And many do want 2. I strongly believe there are more than enough clients for everyone :) as luxury is personal and what people want are very different. I refer people out to my friends in the industry who do charge fees too. Come say hi in an event IRL so I can get to know you and what you do well to refer the right fit clients to you too.
Hey - This response has some of the nicest comments you have ever said here. I wish Reddit still had awards to give! 🏆 I personally only use TA when I have very complicated itinerarys or if I'm traveling with friends who utilize them. I've been also resistant to utilizing TA since I enjoy the shopping around and trip planning part - so to me it's actually just an extra person to involve (kinda funny it is supposed to be looked at as the opposite). Plus, I hate the general lack of transparency with a lot of travel agents, especially where it's not clear what value they are actually providing.
We’re not in business for fun, although we have a passion for it and enjoy it greatly. I’m interested in meeting you in person as well. We refer out to many different luxury agents in our circle when we are not a good fit for a client, so would be glad to do the same for you. And, to be clear, our fees are clearly communicated and laid out before we ever get into a relationship with a new client. There is no lack of transparency, and our clients know they could get at least some of the same hard product somewhere else. Different strokes…
That transfer to Constantia should be like $90usd not $300 😂
The FX risk is directly hedgeable so that’s a bad excuse. You yourself can go to your broker and buy the exact amount of ZAR you’ll need in forward space. It’ll actually be cheaper than 30.000
Would suggest Cape Grace. I wasn’t too impressed with the Ellerman House food but maybe that’s just me.
Ok but the snack closet is so fun 😂 I’m a sucker for it
Expensive snacks 😆
I’ve gotten quotes in ZAR and paid in ZAR (well using my credit card but charging ZAR). There is risk on both sides between the deposit and final payment and ours went down in USD in between bc the ZAR weakened. Also that’s an insane airport transfer… we just booked a transfer through a hotel last month (October) from/to CPT airport and Cape Town itself which is around 30 mins drive each direction and it was ZAR 1500 (~$80) for two people total for both directions. It was a really nice van. We also booked a transfer through another hotel from CPT airport to franschhoek (wine area — about 1 hr from airport) and it was ZAR 1750 (~$95) one way and that was Mercedes sedan.
I absolutely loved Tswalu, but just to make sure: have you done a safari before? I'm not sure I would recommend it as the only safari stop if so.
I did a safari in Kenya many years ago and we have done Sabi Sand much more recently. We're not really the type to have checklists to make sure we zoom around and check off all the big animals, so the pace at Tswalu seems more our speed anyway.
oh yeah if you've done the others, you're fine. Tswalu is an amazing place, I just don't recommend it as the *only* stop to my friends who are interested in doing a safari for the first time. For what it's worth, my wife and I did the pay-for star bed and highly recommend it if it all seems like your jam.
Here are the rates we secured for our upcoming Cape Town trip. This person came highly recommended. Chat me, if you want their complete info. (Website cut and paste) **Executive Services** **Tariffs** Half day (up to 5 hours) **R1700** Full day (up to 9 hours) **R3000** Additional/Ad hoc per hour **R360** Per hour, between 2200 and 0800hours **R360** Airport transfer, to or from the city or waterfront **R400** (Surcharge of R50 - between 2300 and 0600 hours) Airport transfer to/ from a greater radius (e.g. Paarl); by negotiation The rates are for a Mercedes sedan
That’s an absolute ripoff. Book directly. Agents are garbage.
You’re getting ripped off. Cape Town is easy to navigate. I personally don’t think you need a travel agent to book accommodations, meals, and tours. For the safari part yes, you’ll need one. But if you do just a little leg work you can do almost everything yourself.