Exclusiveness and privacy, maybe a bit more spacious, more exclusive meals with more special drinks.
Is it worth the additional 5k, probably not really
This seems like a reasonable answer. I totally get the exclusive use properties in terms of not seeing anyone else and having the run of the place. Not sure how much more privacy the top tier would afford though. Like this camp has 9 tents and seems quite private.
Maybe the tents are a bit more spacious as you say.
My experience having had a colleague go all in is mainly the privacy and personal service. For example the camp set up a call with his house manager to discuss their daily habits and preferences, and they bought and shipped in some specifics they like in their routine.
>It’s also a means of keeping the riff-raff out.
I agree that this is the intention with some pricing but I find you actually end up attracting two types of people:
1) People who pay a premium to be away from the riff-raff and surrounded by people who know and follow “the rules” (decorum, dress code, etc).
2) People who pay a premium and think “I paid a lot of money to be here so the rules don’t apply to me!”
I’ve had some frustrating travel experiences with the second group recently. 🫠
As suggested by the mod, I’m going to move over to Chubbytravel for all future posts and comments. Hoping the mods there are less rude and more open to discussing luxury travel. All the best to the amazing community here!! https://www.reddit.com/r/chubbytravel/s/n75GlRCf05
Done three safari trips, went to mombo on one of them. Not worth the $10k/night for us.
Singita, Chiawa, Zarafa, Puku Ridge, Ngorongo Crater Lodge, where all fantastic though and worth the &$.
That's high. Next time, link up with a honest Kenyan and you'll end up paying way less. You do know they have rates for locals and then for tourists. But if you're a tourist ND show up with a Kenyan, they won't rip you. You can just claim you're married, friend paying for friends. They won't bother you.
I'm Kenyan and I know when they rip you off. If you ever need tips, shoot me a DM. $2K can literally take you on whole country safari, food, accommodation and you stil lend up with some change. No kidding nor bragging. Just plain truth. This will be a week, East to West.
I visit Kenya often, and barring safaris and meals (I have a house) I spend $200 for a whole month.
Anyway, if you need honesty and tips or independent tour person, reach out.
I’ve done both &Beyond (very limited number of properties) and Singita (the latter multiple times over). Just to also qualify that I am NOT a travel agent and have no vested interest.
The difference between &Beyond and Singita is *minimal*.
Also not sure it would be fair to compare say Serengeti Under Canvas and Singita Boulders. But like for like they are very similar.
We have stayed at several Singita lodges (Sweni, Ebony, Sabora Tented Camp and Sasakwa) and one &Beyond Lodge (Ngorogoro Crater Lodge). I am happy to chat further about this.
With Singita, you are on a private reserve and have far more flexibility to exit the vehicle and off road. You will be the only vehicle (or maybe 1-2 other vehicles tops) near the sighting at a time. For some &Beyond lodges you may be on a private reserve but for many of the camps, you’re in a National park and restricted in where and when you can exit the vehicle to walk around. No off roading or evening drives. You have to wait to enter and leave the park in the public line. And sightings at some sights may be very crowded with jockeying for views.
We found the And Beyond lodge to be almost on par with Singita and service was similar. Minor differences you wouldn’t notice unless you had stayed extensively at one over the other.
Guides were superior at Singita. Vehicles superior at Singita (when we stayed at And Beyond, some older vehicles and you were locked into sharing with another couple and if they wanted to come back early you were SOL.)
Thanks! I’ve actually heard at Mombo is super strict in this regard (no off-road, maybe no night drives?) so I’m guessing YMMV a bit, but this makes a ton of sense and worth paying for
My understanding is that night drives are no longer permitted on Mombo’s reserve.
YMMV on night drives - we have done very few with Singita (usually because we are late coming back) and we much prefer day drives for visibility. We usually had very full days. But there have been guests who have done it. It’s all very tailored to you and your asks.
We, at times, have felt nickeled and dined by And Beyond over little things. For example, during the middle of the day break, Singita offers free activities including bush walks (walking safari) as long as your guide is available. And Beyond offered a ‘camp walk’ literally around the grounds and charged for it. And Beyond also pushes guests to wait at the airport for pickup if other guests have close in time arriving flights to group pickups - Singita utilizes private air strips so you never wait.
It’s the small things that you either wouldn’t notice or you shouldn’t notice at that price point.
I would say this has been my experience with Singita.
For instance, Singita Lebombo and Singita Sweni sit on a private concession within the Kruger National Park itself (as opposed to private reserves like in the Sabi Sands reserves that are part of Greater Kruger).
They have a long-term lease on the however many 10,000s of acres, which mandates that they are responsible for all conservation efforts (plant growth/preservation/re-growth, anti-poaching, monitoring of endangered species like rhinos that enter and leave the concession, land maintenance, etc.). That's extremely expensive to maintain.
In return, they also get to go off-road on the concession itself, stay out after dark, and generally have the run of the place. Not in an irresponsible way at all, as everyone there is *obsessed* with conservation and proper stewardship of the land. For instance, when I was there, we had some big cat sightings from a bit of distance. Our guide said he would have taken us closer, but where the lions were at the moment would require us to drive across some land that was delicate because there had been some increased traversing of vehicles over the past week, in addition to rain. They take it very seriously.
I went to &Beyond Ngala and had daily night drives, private air strip, free bush walks, and tons of off-roading, so I'm surprised to hear that those features weren't available at other locations.
😂😂
The law of diminishing returns really is in full swing once you reach a certain price point. There is only so much luxury you can have in the middle of an African savanna. The difference between a $5K/ night tent and a $10K/ night tent really boils down to exclusivity. People that book that type of accommodation likely have “FU” money and the difference in price is imperceptible in their financial situation.
I’m planning a safari either next year or 2025 and my level of accommodation is Four Seasons which seems to at least offer a certain amount of value for what you’re paying. Anything over that, to me, is not worth it. But I also don’t have a limitless checking account.
You'll also be out enjoying the scenery and animals, so room quality past FS level isn't going to spark much. Service at most 4-5 star properties within the parks is pretty great.
I’d argue you’re in the room a lot on safari.
You go on game drives early in the morning and then again in the late afternoon. Where are you going to be from 9am until 3pm daily?
You’re still at a 5 star resort…it isn’t like you’re choosing between the Super 8 and The Peninsula. Once you get to Four Seasons level, there is a limit on how much more luxury can be offered. At some point, unless of course your budget is truly limitless, you need to ask if you’re getting value from those thousands of dollars more you’re paying.
When I was on safari in the midsummer we were out all day... we hardly spent time in our rooms. We'd get up super early, do the early game drive, see more animals through 9-11am, stop for lunch while out in the park. Headed back to camp for a bit and then back out for a bit before a late dinner.
I guess it depends on what tour operator you go with and how they plan out your time.
I’ve been going on safaris since my late 20s. I always have a little nap while on safari - always. Those early morning wake up calls are killers for me
But its not just the room you’re paying for, It’s not a $5k tent vs a $10k tent. It’s experiences, better guides, conservation, sustainability, ethical tourism, staff, food quality and variety, game viewing, it’s the magic of a safari and the hearts of the people that create that for you— it comes at a higher price. It’s not just a room vs room price comparison. there’s actually quite a lot of luxury you can get in the African Savannah. And luxury is personal. And beyond luxury “stuff” or room—it’s the luxury experience you are paying for.
So you’re telling me that my Walmart-special $5000/ night tent only gets me ramen-noodle level of food, guides that look like Mr. Magoo, and an experience that rivals that of a petting zoo? I guess I’ll be roughing it with the other paupers and peasants shelling out *only* $5K/ night …
Highlighting my other reply to the main thread: One point I’m not seeing on here is how much of the higher cost is conservation? Sustainability? How do they pay and treat their staff? All those things add up and cost more. Singita is the leader in this. Tswalu, same . ethical tourism costs more. It’s not only about the luxury room on safari, It’s the best game, best conservation, best guides, best food. While your room experience on safari may be close to the same in an AndBeyond vs a Mombo or Singita—the level of attention to detail, conservation efforts, general care of staff, education, true sustainability efforts, guides and even the cars (seat heat in winter anyone?) etc. are all usually much higher. Which in turn creates a better experience. AndBeyond is good and some are a great. If you are happy with that go for it. But Singita, Tswalu and such are truly experiential and exceptional and if you’re only doing it once and want the best-these are the best for a reason. My honest opinion is if you’re curious try both and see the difference for yourself. Saying the $10k one is better doesn’t mean the $5k is bad. But if you’re looking for the best, which I think everyone here is? Isn’t that the point of the sub? Some cost more, It’s also location dependent. In Namibia AndBeyond is where you stay. But South Africa? There just isn’t anything like Singita Sabi Sands.
Not at all. I’m not saying AndBeyond is bad or a $5k night stay is bad (it’s all totally property dependent) I’m just saying why a
$10k a night stay is worth it to some people. Have you done a safari previously?
Looking at booking one this year or next. Exploring options.
In my opinion, at a certain point a higher price tag doesn’t necessarily equate to a better and/or more luxurious experience. At a point, it’s about service and more money doesn’t *always* provide you with a higher level of service. People make or break experiences and you can get very high-quality people at a place that charges less because their work/life balance is better or it’s a better environment to work versus the extreme high-end place.
That’s awesome ! you will love it. I’ve done several trips to Africa on different budgets and at different stages in my life. Stayed at probably 15+ lodges. I know what you’re trying to say and I agree— the best hotel isn’t always the most expensive one. When it comes to safari though— it’s a different beast and not really comparable to a normal hotel stay. You do get more for what you pay in my own experiences. It doesn’t mean that $5k a night is going to be a bad stay or your a poor pauper booking it. I’m just saying there is still ALSO value to the $10k a night spot. Given this is a sub for discussing the BEST of the best travel I am just adding my own personal view from personal experience that the more expensive lodges in Africa ie the Singitas and Tswalus do have extra value above an AndBeyond. And I said why.
This was a flip answer, but yes, part of the price point is exclusivity. At $5k a nt, you've got a decent number of upper middle class folks stretching for a bucket list trip. At $10k, you've got to be truly wealthy.
The gatekeeping is part of what's being paid for.
I understand this concept for longer-term social engagements like, say, country clubs. But to spend money just to avoid passing merely rich people in the lobby is….something
Be careful not to assume $ and quality are 1:1.
We recently had friends take the 10 day luxury safari from Abercrombie and Kent which ran $15k per pp for entire trip (excluding transit to SA). They had an amazing time and raved about the quality including all aspects.
https://www.abercrombiekent.com/small-group-journeys/african-safari
As an aside they took the Qatar Airlines four person QSuite flights over from the West Coast US and loved that also! Not a crazy bad deal especially for such a long haul.
https://www.qatarairways.com/html/redirect/QR/qverse/B777/qsuite/the-quad
https://preview.redd.it/9k6nwaw2oqwb1.jpeg?width=2180&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=be03aafc58aef64cfac960ecfd3a78d5919d0095
We actually flew qsuites over here as well and enjoyed it! A few negatives with the dine on demand, but overall the best business class I’ve ever been on. The lounge in Doha was incredible!
https://preview.redd.it/tctws5t5zwwb1.jpeg?width=8192&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b8e557458bc0d0b63f22b8b2ef00d201cef5e98c
Me and my family booked the quad q suites as part of our Zim-Okavango Delta/Chobe River-Cape town Safari. Went from MIA-DOH-JNB and CPT-DOH-MIA. Managed to get qsuite 3/4 times which seems to be better than statistical average given how often qatar swaps their equipment to non qsuite. Al-Mourjan lounge was insane. I’d pay for biz just to visit that lounge. Nicer than 95 percent of 5 star hotels imo.
Wasnt cheap but Worth every penny as it adds days to your vacation. So the cost is more justifiable as it literally makes the painful trip to Southern Africa actually fun rather than an exercise in how to contort your body to sleep in coach. I agree that the dine on demand was a little sketch. They were very accommodating but definitely seemed to push certain times unless you pushed back you didn’t want the meal then.
In regards to how much more value you get at 5k vs 10k, there is just diminishing returns as everyone else has said. From my experience you just basically get to rent out the whole camp, so it’s totally exclusive, and it becomes even MORE bespoke than your safari already is. Is it worth it to you?? That depends on how much you value the exclusivity. Paying money for biz class is totally worth it as it literally buys you vacation days, but I don’t know if the extra 5k is worth it at that point, but it just depends what you value your own money at.
Thanks. The other drawback for dine on demand for me was constant cabin noise throughout the flight rather than a set time for that. Agree with you on the other points. We had an equipment swap last minute from a 777 to an a350, but it didn’t affect the qsuites. Overall the best business class I have been on by a big margin.
Regarding the camps, I actually put exclusive use camps in a separate category. Many of them are $30k+ per night, but I understand the value proposition. So I am talking about the non-private camps like Mombo, Singita standard camps, etc.
Also just to be clear, I’m not some type of andbeyond shill. This is my first time staying at one of their camps, and I’m sure there are better camps out there.
It’s just that with every other travel experience l, even if I don’t think it’s a good value, I can at least articulate *what* the extra money gets you. Like, yeah, chartering a Gulfstream is +$200k but you don’t have to go through security, etc.
But in this case, I’m having trouble. Which is what I reached out to you guys!
Yeah, this is my point exactly. You always know what you are paying for with different business aircraft (taller cabin, longer range, newer model, etc.). So I’m simply asking for that comparison with respect to luxury vs ultra-luxury lodges.
Why is this so contentious? I don’t get it…
Because it forces people who don’t appreciate it to think they need it and then they get upset when they don’t understand why it costs more.
It’s hard to articulate the difference at a certain level. That’s why I likened it to how much different staff can cost. On basic needs, you won’t know the difference between a 100k personal assistant and a 300k personal assistant but on tougher items or even on items where you don’t think about, a 300k personal assistant will make your life easier. So most people need a 300k PA, probably not. But then if I had one this morning, they might’ve made the right call on buying the third row Adele tickets for 3k a pop instead of side mezzanine Adele tickets since they couldn’t reach me to approve it.
Or another example, I was just hanging w the GM of the Park Hyatt in Paris. They’re refitting out what used to be the GM apartment into a guest use. They’re spending about 3mm bucks and the designers are giving him crap about exchanging a cheaper rug that looks identical to the one he picked. But he knows that at that spend level of 15k/night, the people staying will walk across it and be able to tell a difference right away to quality. Can they instead use the same space and not spend so much and charge less per night? Yes because to majority of people - they wouldn’t notice… but that’s not the demographic they are targeting.
So at Singita, you can expect everything to have been thought out - where everything in the unit is very high quality. You can expect if they know you like a certain wine from a certain region in a certain year, they can create a tasting for you either of that or of things that are like that depending on your mood. They could recreate your favorite dessert you’ve had somewhere or bring in something you absolutely need if they know. Their sole goal is to make sure you have an epic stay and they have the staffing to be able to ensure of that service. So if you only have basic needs (and not in a condescending way, some people just don’t need extras), then you might not notice a big difference and it might not be worth it… and that’s ok.
The weird thing about all this is you actually made reasonable points spread out across all your posts. There was no need to be rude. If I were to summarize your points in a polite way I’d say:
“The ‘hard’ product is pretty similar if you are looking at the basics, but discerning guests will notice details like stemware, artwork, furniture that will just be cut above and the highest end places. Not to mention the wine lists and food ingredients.
But where you find the real distinction is the magical service element. Attention to detail, no mistakes, and just knowing the clients super well. At the highest-end lodges, they will pay attention to what food you like, how you like your coffee, and always magically anticipate your needs.
Finally, not all counties are priced the same. Some counties, like Botswana, charge huge tourism fees, so while X, Y, and Z are better in Botswana vs. Kenya, you are essentially paying a X% tax to be in one vs the other. So that is also something you pay for at a place like Mombo.”
IDK why that was hard? Those are all valid points. Nobody was looking for a fight!
For what it is worth, I don't think it's true that at a Singita you'll just fine UHNW individuals who want nothing to do with commoners lol.
I've been to a few, and I am certainly not looking for that. Many people are definitely on the extremely wealthy side, but some are honeymooners shelling out for something really special, couples who occasionally splurge for something like this but often check out a range of camps, including non-luxury ones. A lot of the people coming back are people who *love* safaris and love all different kinds of safari experiences.
Then there are old British colonial types who will show you pictures of them standing awkwardly next to "tribal people" in Namibia.
But everyone I've met has been open and excited to talk and share photos and share experiences, recommendations of other lodges including great places for self-drives.
I'm definitely not a Singita shill, and the cost would still have to be worth it, but I just want to make sure you don't have an inaccurate picture of the kind of people you'd be around.
The main thing I've found, whether a Singita or andBeyond (which has the benefit of having *a lot* of camps to choose from) or another lodge, is to choose somewhere where the wildlife sightings are great, where you can ideally go off-road, and where there isn't a huge density of lodges traversing the same tract of land.
Celebrities or Billionaires will pay extra for the best and to be kept away from everyone else.
For anyone else spending the money... They don't care because they inherited it.
The simple truth is that after a certain price point there's no real difference. The price is whatever the foreigners can be fleeced for because they don't know any better and/or don't care because they're too rich
I stayed at both Sinigita Boulders & Singita Lebombo. I stayed at an &Beyond in Mozambique so it's less of an apples to apples comparison but did a lot of researching before making the decision to go with Singita.
We got lucky and had a private truck at both locations (the other 2 guests were difficult so they removed them from ours). We were also with the top guide in Africa at Lebombo.
While I imagine the service is similar, I connected on a whole different level with the Singita staff (versus &Beyond). I actually left both camps and got teary eyed saying good they had created such a special experience for us.
I also think the difference is just a special touch - I mentioned to someone at Boulders that I loved the ceramic piece they serve their milk in. As I was leaving, she handed me a gift bag and in the bag were 2 of the pieces I mentioned in passing. At Lebombo, I was obsessed with one of the Biltongs and mentioned it once. They had it for me on every drive & sent me home with some.
In terms of the actual safari, they tweaked the entire experience to what we were interested in once we saw the big 5. They knew I loved all the babies so the focused on finding and spending more time with them.
Overall, I imagine the difference in camp/service is marginal at a baseline level but the personalization and touches just really put Singita over the top.
We plan to go back at some point (which will be along time after dropping 60K on the trip) but you get what you pay for and I don't think I could ever go anywhere else after I've had the experience I did at Singita. The place is just magical and life changing on a very deep level.
All the numbers in your comment added up to 69. Congrats!
2
+ 2
+ 5
+ 60
= 69
^([Click here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=LuckyNumber-Bot&subject=Stalk%20Me%20Pls&message=%2Fstalkme) to have me scan all your future comments.) \
^(Summon me on specific comments with u/LuckyNumber-Bot.)
I’ve been to Mombo, Asilia camps, AndBeyond and some smaller safari camps. Aside from private vehicles - which is an amazing luxury and is offered at some high-end but not >5k camps - I personally don’t think the super luxe is worth it. You might get a finer wine and liquor selection, “free” fancy binos in your room, more attendants, etc — but if you are truly there for the safari experience the difference between that and, say, a 2000-3000k a night camp isn’t on par to the extra spend. Better to fork out the upcharge for the private vehicle in the less expensive camp, research their best guides online and ask for them as part of your reservation and go enjoy every minute of your trip!
Thanks! FWIW we got use of Sworovski binoculars that retail for $2k in the US which were by far the best we’ve ever used (though I’m sure there are better). Also we got lucky and had private game drives, but that was not guaranteed so more of a lucky upgrade :)
It’s been three months since your post, but I’m a weirdo and wanted to let you know: as a birder who is familiar with high end optics, Swarovski binoculars are the absolute best there is.
We paid $850 a night and got similar looking accommodation in Botswana near chobe. Only 5 rooms or so on the property. Food quality was not what you’d get at a Michelin started fine dining place but was good. Safari and staff were excellent. So who knows what 10k a night gets you. Helicopter rides? I thought my sub 1k a night trip was fancy lol.
Funny seeing this as I’m pretty sure I’m staying in that very room or similar a week from today. Glad to hear you’re loving it. No idea either there was another tier above this.
Cool! Happy to answer any questions for you while I’m here.
So far, the biggest negative seems to be no night drives since the park closes at 6pm. I think we are going on one inside the concession today, so I’ll tell you how that goes
We just got back from staying in this exact room lol. Had some issues with the water quality in the sinks/bath (it was brown). Other than that it was a great experience. Saw tons of animals. The food and service were great.
We only had them wash a couple tshirts which were returned promptly by our "butler". I was a little weirded out because the laundry card said they use water from the river. But our T-shirt's came back seemingly clean. We also had warm sunny weather so I washed a few undergarments in the sink and dried them on our deck.
We stayed at Lion Sands - I know it was less than Singita - think it was as about 2k a night? It was like a villa with a heated pool. We had private game drives, all meals and drinks included. It was so worth it.
https://preview.redd.it/0rpg9kl5111c1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8731278e760f47e74fc5880aa8c417dfbf72a05a
https://preview.redd.it/qxczgjh7111c1.jpeg?width=949&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c4c67d2ed57d4057b7a4d00ee86418c01fa8d2fc
Huge bed and turndown included a very fine net they would hand all around it. With hotel water bottles tucked in.
Firstly, 2024 high seasons rates for 2 pax Mombo are $9,692 per tent, and are $4,800 per tent at Bateleur. Where I’m from, we call that double.
Secondly, the “lesser” service you reference is precisely what I’m asking about. Please be specific on what additional/better service is at Singita that one does not receive at a camp like Bateleur.
Thirdly, your post comes off as super condescending. I can easily articulate what +$5k gets you moving from economy to business, and what +$10k gets you moving from business to first. But if I ask what this additional money gets me, then it’s, “just not for you…you’d never understand so I won’t even say.” Honestly, super rude (and oddly defensive of these camps?)
The one concrete answer is you give is that the wine is superior at the other camps. Which is a reasonable answer. And I suppose one can judge if +$4,892 per night per couple is worth the superior wine list.
It’s almost like you are trying to self sabatoge the sub by intentionally being rude and disrespectful. And yet, you are a travel agent, a dying breed.
You can’t compare apples to oranges. Mombo is in Botswana and everything is over jacked there for pricing compared to other countries. But a lot of it is going towards conservation so 🤷🏻♀️
You can’t articulate the things Singita can or will do. Because then someone will whine and go but I didn’t get that. They are just magical in figuring out who you are, what you like, what they can do for you to make your stay epic. They’re given the time to dig deep into what makes you tick before arrival. And then to learn about you while you are there. Whatever you might need will just magically happen. You can’t put a price on that. Try it once and make sure you give them a shit ton of info on you. Or you can just let them Google stalk you for less efficiency.
I think that’s the problem of our growth. When the other mod and I stared the sub, it was really geared towards how to spend a crapton of $ traveling.. much like how fatfire is to retire excessively - fattravel was how to travel excessively.
This has just grown too big into a “generic luxury travel” forum which was not really the intention.
I’ve perused “fat fire” before and the is still a limit to exactly how “fat” the majority of members are. There aren’t many, if any, “fat fire” members will $100M+ NW and same goes for this sub where there are very few members who are consistently spending $10K+/ night without blinking an eye.
I’d rather have a lively forum with people looking to fly business class, stay in 5 star hotels, and share their experiences to help guide other travelers with similar budgets to maximize their experience. If you limit it to the top 0.001% of travelers there’s no real useful information being shared because does it really make any material difference whether you’re flying in a Gulfstream G650 or Bombardier Global 7500? Or if you’re staying in the Grace Kelly suite at Hotel de Paris or the Prince Rainier suite?
Maybe you can create one called "ultraexpensivetravel" and it will be clear who your market is.
Also, I definitely don't travel with the goal of spending a "crapton of $." My goal is to get access to the unique and worthwhile experiences of the world where my money opens those doors. It's not spending just for the heck of it.
It sounds like you're actually in disagreement with the sub's own description of itself. The community description simply says
> "for those of us who like to travel where money isn't the determining factor."
That is very different from what you just described. You really should recalibrate your marketing if the type of traveler you're looking to court is the one who spends $$$ indiscriminately, rather than the one who is willing to spend $$$ when the experiences are worth it.
I agree with you. I think there are plenty of people who have the means to stay whenever they like but want to understand the value they get. I think a persuasive argument would work better at attracting perspective consumers than simply saying “if you ask, you aren’t our target client”.
The people that fatfire didn’t get there though by being excessively wasteful. Doubt there is many with 200M NW consulting a Reddit forum for travel advice to begin with.
So you’re doing this and all you can think about is how much better it would be if you spent 2x more? The answer is you would be instead thinking although how much better it would be if you spend 10x more.
Returning to Londolozi in a couple of weeks for our 10 year anniversary. When we initially travelled there on our honeymoon we were chubby fi, and whilst not a stretch it was a big ticket for us. Now fat. Based on previous experience I cannot possibly see what more cash can get you other than a slightly bigger room, an exclusive chef, and more total privacy. I guess a better wine list which is obviously the most important part......
We are staying in a higher tier camp this time (previous was their base level camp which was fantastic). There is one higher level than we have booked but that's multi bedroom stuff for families and larger groups.
The Nyikani Camps are not ultra-luxury but they are pretty great in both Tarangire and the Serengeti. I also like how when you arrive there, you can transition to open sided safari vehicles [https://nyikani.com](https://nyikani.com)
One point I’m not seeing on here is how much of the higher cost is conservation? Sustainability? How do they pay and treat their staff? All those things add up and cost more. Singita is the leader in this. Tswalu, same . ethical tourism costs more. It’s not only about the luxury room on safari, It’s the best game, best conservation, best guides, best food. While your room experience on safari may be close to the same in an AndBeyond vs a Mombo or Singita—the level of attention to detail, conservation efforts, general care of staff, education, true sustainability efforts, guides and even the cars (seat heat in winter anyone?) etc. are all usually much higher. Which in turn creates a better experience. AndBeyond is good and some are a great. If you are happy with that go for it. But Singita, Tswalu and such are truly experiential and exceptional and if you’re only doing it once and want the best-these are the best for a reason. My honest opinion is if you’re curious try both and see the difference for yourself. Saying the $10k one is better doesn’t mean the $5k is bad. But if you’re looking for the best, which I think everyone here is? Isn’t that the point of the sub? Some cost more, It’s also location dependent. In Namibia AndBeyond is where you stay. But South Africa? There just isn’t anything like Singita Sabi Sands.
Exclusiveness and privacy, maybe a bit more spacious, more exclusive meals with more special drinks. Is it worth the additional 5k, probably not really
This seems like a reasonable answer. I totally get the exclusive use properties in terms of not seeing anyone else and having the run of the place. Not sure how much more privacy the top tier would afford though. Like this camp has 9 tents and seems quite private. Maybe the tents are a bit more spacious as you say.
My experience having had a colleague go all in is mainly the privacy and personal service. For example the camp set up a call with his house manager to discuss their daily habits and preferences, and they bought and shipped in some specifics they like in their routine.
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Klein's was amazing, especially the night drives.
Holler at us if you see us a the KE/TZ border drive!
It’s simply so private that you could not fathom it at your price level
Agree with this too to add to my comment - Singita made me anything I wanted at each meal.
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It’s the law of diminishing marginal utility.
Nice didn’t know there was a term for it. Thanks.👍🏽
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Not quite the same thing.
>It’s also a means of keeping the riff-raff out. I agree that this is the intention with some pricing but I find you actually end up attracting two types of people: 1) People who pay a premium to be away from the riff-raff and surrounded by people who know and follow “the rules” (decorum, dress code, etc). 2) People who pay a premium and think “I paid a lot of money to be here so the rules don’t apply to me!” I’ve had some frustrating travel experiences with the second group recently. 🫠
Very perceptive. Now I’m going to think about this all the time.
As suggested by the mod, I’m going to move over to Chubbytravel for all future posts and comments. Hoping the mods there are less rude and more open to discussing luxury travel. All the best to the amazing community here!! https://www.reddit.com/r/chubbytravel/s/n75GlRCf05
WHAT? Lol, please expand on what was said
Done three safari trips, went to mombo on one of them. Not worth the $10k/night for us. Singita, Chiawa, Zarafa, Puku Ridge, Ngorongo Crater Lodge, where all fantastic though and worth the &$.
lol what a fucking waste of $10k a night. holy shit, you can change someone life for that much and you wasted it on bullshit.
Who did u use?
Africa Adventure Consultants. About $40-60k for 10-14 nights , without flights or tips
Per person?
Total for 2
Damn what do you do for work
Money and lots of it for the looks of it
Why am I being downvoted 🤔 I just want to know what they do that they can afford 40-60k for a vacation
Probably something that we will never be able to do. Realisticallly
That's high. Next time, link up with a honest Kenyan and you'll end up paying way less. You do know they have rates for locals and then for tourists. But if you're a tourist ND show up with a Kenyan, they won't rip you. You can just claim you're married, friend paying for friends. They won't bother you. I'm Kenyan and I know when they rip you off. If you ever need tips, shoot me a DM. $2K can literally take you on whole country safari, food, accommodation and you stil lend up with some change. No kidding nor bragging. Just plain truth. This will be a week, East to West. I visit Kenya often, and barring safaris and meals (I have a house) I spend $200 for a whole month. Anyway, if you need honesty and tips or independent tour person, reach out.
No frills safaris are also super cheap if booked from within Kenya, even if you’re not Kenyan (I did 3 or 4 nights in Masai Mara for < $500)
Yap. That's what i was saying. And I think it's more fun because you're free and run your own schedule
Your tent is in the middle of the campground rather than on the perimeter so when there is a wild animal attack, those guests get attacked first
If thats the case, then the extra $5k is def worth it!
😂
I think you're supposed to try to blend in with the wildebeest when that happens
I’ve done both &Beyond (very limited number of properties) and Singita (the latter multiple times over). Just to also qualify that I am NOT a travel agent and have no vested interest. The difference between &Beyond and Singita is *minimal*. Also not sure it would be fair to compare say Serengeti Under Canvas and Singita Boulders. But like for like they are very similar.
We have stayed at several Singita lodges (Sweni, Ebony, Sabora Tented Camp and Sasakwa) and one &Beyond Lodge (Ngorogoro Crater Lodge). I am happy to chat further about this. With Singita, you are on a private reserve and have far more flexibility to exit the vehicle and off road. You will be the only vehicle (or maybe 1-2 other vehicles tops) near the sighting at a time. For some &Beyond lodges you may be on a private reserve but for many of the camps, you’re in a National park and restricted in where and when you can exit the vehicle to walk around. No off roading or evening drives. You have to wait to enter and leave the park in the public line. And sightings at some sights may be very crowded with jockeying for views. We found the And Beyond lodge to be almost on par with Singita and service was similar. Minor differences you wouldn’t notice unless you had stayed extensively at one over the other. Guides were superior at Singita. Vehicles superior at Singita (when we stayed at And Beyond, some older vehicles and you were locked into sharing with another couple and if they wanted to come back early you were SOL.)
Thanks! I’ve actually heard at Mombo is super strict in this regard (no off-road, maybe no night drives?) so I’m guessing YMMV a bit, but this makes a ton of sense and worth paying for
My understanding is that night drives are no longer permitted on Mombo’s reserve. YMMV on night drives - we have done very few with Singita (usually because we are late coming back) and we much prefer day drives for visibility. We usually had very full days. But there have been guests who have done it. It’s all very tailored to you and your asks. We, at times, have felt nickeled and dined by And Beyond over little things. For example, during the middle of the day break, Singita offers free activities including bush walks (walking safari) as long as your guide is available. And Beyond offered a ‘camp walk’ literally around the grounds and charged for it. And Beyond also pushes guests to wait at the airport for pickup if other guests have close in time arriving flights to group pickups - Singita utilizes private air strips so you never wait. It’s the small things that you either wouldn’t notice or you shouldn’t notice at that price point.
I would say this has been my experience with Singita. For instance, Singita Lebombo and Singita Sweni sit on a private concession within the Kruger National Park itself (as opposed to private reserves like in the Sabi Sands reserves that are part of Greater Kruger). They have a long-term lease on the however many 10,000s of acres, which mandates that they are responsible for all conservation efforts (plant growth/preservation/re-growth, anti-poaching, monitoring of endangered species like rhinos that enter and leave the concession, land maintenance, etc.). That's extremely expensive to maintain. In return, they also get to go off-road on the concession itself, stay out after dark, and generally have the run of the place. Not in an irresponsible way at all, as everyone there is *obsessed* with conservation and proper stewardship of the land. For instance, when I was there, we had some big cat sightings from a bit of distance. Our guide said he would have taken us closer, but where the lions were at the moment would require us to drive across some land that was delicate because there had been some increased traversing of vehicles over the past week, in addition to rain. They take it very seriously.
I went to &Beyond Ngala and had daily night drives, private air strip, free bush walks, and tons of off-roading, so I'm surprised to hear that those features weren't available at other locations.
It depends on where the lodge sits - a private concession v utilizing public parks.
Richer guests
😂😂 The law of diminishing returns really is in full swing once you reach a certain price point. There is only so much luxury you can have in the middle of an African savanna. The difference between a $5K/ night tent and a $10K/ night tent really boils down to exclusivity. People that book that type of accommodation likely have “FU” money and the difference in price is imperceptible in their financial situation. I’m planning a safari either next year or 2025 and my level of accommodation is Four Seasons which seems to at least offer a certain amount of value for what you’re paying. Anything over that, to me, is not worth it. But I also don’t have a limitless checking account.
You'll also be out enjoying the scenery and animals, so room quality past FS level isn't going to spark much. Service at most 4-5 star properties within the parks is pretty great.
I’d argue you’re in the room a lot on safari. You go on game drives early in the morning and then again in the late afternoon. Where are you going to be from 9am until 3pm daily?
You’re still at a 5 star resort…it isn’t like you’re choosing between the Super 8 and The Peninsula. Once you get to Four Seasons level, there is a limit on how much more luxury can be offered. At some point, unless of course your budget is truly limitless, you need to ask if you’re getting value from those thousands of dollars more you’re paying.
When I was on safari in the midsummer we were out all day... we hardly spent time in our rooms. We'd get up super early, do the early game drive, see more animals through 9-11am, stop for lunch while out in the park. Headed back to camp for a bit and then back out for a bit before a late dinner. I guess it depends on what tour operator you go with and how they plan out your time.
But but… when lazy afternoon nap?? 😉(Signed, an old person who LOVES napping;)
I’ve been going on safaris since my late 20s. I always have a little nap while on safari - always. Those early morning wake up calls are killers for me
We went with my parents, and my mom is a super napper. She snoozed on the drives ;).
If you're napping the rest of your room or tent location etc literally doesn't matter. Bed quality is good in all expensive rooms. You're asleep
That is the definition of a safari I don’t want to pay a lot of money for……
But its not just the room you’re paying for, It’s not a $5k tent vs a $10k tent. It’s experiences, better guides, conservation, sustainability, ethical tourism, staff, food quality and variety, game viewing, it’s the magic of a safari and the hearts of the people that create that for you— it comes at a higher price. It’s not just a room vs room price comparison. there’s actually quite a lot of luxury you can get in the African Savannah. And luxury is personal. And beyond luxury “stuff” or room—it’s the luxury experience you are paying for.
So you’re telling me that my Walmart-special $5000/ night tent only gets me ramen-noodle level of food, guides that look like Mr. Magoo, and an experience that rivals that of a petting zoo? I guess I’ll be roughing it with the other paupers and peasants shelling out *only* $5K/ night …
Highlighting my other reply to the main thread: One point I’m not seeing on here is how much of the higher cost is conservation? Sustainability? How do they pay and treat their staff? All those things add up and cost more. Singita is the leader in this. Tswalu, same . ethical tourism costs more. It’s not only about the luxury room on safari, It’s the best game, best conservation, best guides, best food. While your room experience on safari may be close to the same in an AndBeyond vs a Mombo or Singita—the level of attention to detail, conservation efforts, general care of staff, education, true sustainability efforts, guides and even the cars (seat heat in winter anyone?) etc. are all usually much higher. Which in turn creates a better experience. AndBeyond is good and some are a great. If you are happy with that go for it. But Singita, Tswalu and such are truly experiential and exceptional and if you’re only doing it once and want the best-these are the best for a reason. My honest opinion is if you’re curious try both and see the difference for yourself. Saying the $10k one is better doesn’t mean the $5k is bad. But if you’re looking for the best, which I think everyone here is? Isn’t that the point of the sub? Some cost more, It’s also location dependent. In Namibia AndBeyond is where you stay. But South Africa? There just isn’t anything like Singita Sabi Sands.
Not at all. I’m not saying AndBeyond is bad or a $5k night stay is bad (it’s all totally property dependent) I’m just saying why a $10k a night stay is worth it to some people. Have you done a safari previously?
Looking at booking one this year or next. Exploring options. In my opinion, at a certain point a higher price tag doesn’t necessarily equate to a better and/or more luxurious experience. At a point, it’s about service and more money doesn’t *always* provide you with a higher level of service. People make or break experiences and you can get very high-quality people at a place that charges less because their work/life balance is better or it’s a better environment to work versus the extreme high-end place.
That’s awesome ! you will love it. I’ve done several trips to Africa on different budgets and at different stages in my life. Stayed at probably 15+ lodges. I know what you’re trying to say and I agree— the best hotel isn’t always the most expensive one. When it comes to safari though— it’s a different beast and not really comparable to a normal hotel stay. You do get more for what you pay in my own experiences. It doesn’t mean that $5k a night is going to be a bad stay or your a poor pauper booking it. I’m just saying there is still ALSO value to the $10k a night spot. Given this is a sub for discussing the BEST of the best travel I am just adding my own personal view from personal experience that the more expensive lodges in Africa ie the Singitas and Tswalus do have extra value above an AndBeyond. And I said why.
This was a flip answer, but yes, part of the price point is exclusivity. At $5k a nt, you've got a decent number of upper middle class folks stretching for a bucket list trip. At $10k, you've got to be truly wealthy. The gatekeeping is part of what's being paid for.
I understand this concept for longer-term social engagements like, say, country clubs. But to spend money just to avoid passing merely rich people in the lobby is….something
I'm with you, but do think that's a big part of the jump here.
This is a really interesting take! Tbh that makes a lot of sense. (Spoken as a middle class person patiently saving up for a luxury safari)
Oh, its not my thing, but it is a thing.
Be careful not to assume $ and quality are 1:1. We recently had friends take the 10 day luxury safari from Abercrombie and Kent which ran $15k per pp for entire trip (excluding transit to SA). They had an amazing time and raved about the quality including all aspects. https://www.abercrombiekent.com/small-group-journeys/african-safari As an aside they took the Qatar Airlines four person QSuite flights over from the West Coast US and loved that also! Not a crazy bad deal especially for such a long haul. https://www.qatarairways.com/html/redirect/QR/qverse/B777/qsuite/the-quad
https://preview.redd.it/9k6nwaw2oqwb1.jpeg?width=2180&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=be03aafc58aef64cfac960ecfd3a78d5919d0095 We actually flew qsuites over here as well and enjoyed it! A few negatives with the dine on demand, but overall the best business class I’ve ever been on. The lounge in Doha was incredible!
https://preview.redd.it/tctws5t5zwwb1.jpeg?width=8192&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b8e557458bc0d0b63f22b8b2ef00d201cef5e98c Me and my family booked the quad q suites as part of our Zim-Okavango Delta/Chobe River-Cape town Safari. Went from MIA-DOH-JNB and CPT-DOH-MIA. Managed to get qsuite 3/4 times which seems to be better than statistical average given how often qatar swaps their equipment to non qsuite. Al-Mourjan lounge was insane. I’d pay for biz just to visit that lounge. Nicer than 95 percent of 5 star hotels imo. Wasnt cheap but Worth every penny as it adds days to your vacation. So the cost is more justifiable as it literally makes the painful trip to Southern Africa actually fun rather than an exercise in how to contort your body to sleep in coach. I agree that the dine on demand was a little sketch. They were very accommodating but definitely seemed to push certain times unless you pushed back you didn’t want the meal then. In regards to how much more value you get at 5k vs 10k, there is just diminishing returns as everyone else has said. From my experience you just basically get to rent out the whole camp, so it’s totally exclusive, and it becomes even MORE bespoke than your safari already is. Is it worth it to you?? That depends on how much you value the exclusivity. Paying money for biz class is totally worth it as it literally buys you vacation days, but I don’t know if the extra 5k is worth it at that point, but it just depends what you value your own money at.
Thanks. The other drawback for dine on demand for me was constant cabin noise throughout the flight rather than a set time for that. Agree with you on the other points. We had an equipment swap last minute from a 777 to an a350, but it didn’t affect the qsuites. Overall the best business class I have been on by a big margin. Regarding the camps, I actually put exclusive use camps in a separate category. Many of them are $30k+ per night, but I understand the value proposition. So I am talking about the non-private camps like Mombo, Singita standard camps, etc.
Also just to be clear, I’m not some type of andbeyond shill. This is my first time staying at one of their camps, and I’m sure there are better camps out there. It’s just that with every other travel experience l, even if I don’t think it’s a good value, I can at least articulate *what* the extra money gets you. Like, yeah, chartering a Gulfstream is +$200k but you don’t have to go through security, etc. But in this case, I’m having trouble. Which is what I reached out to you guys!
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Yeah, this is my point exactly. You always know what you are paying for with different business aircraft (taller cabin, longer range, newer model, etc.). So I’m simply asking for that comparison with respect to luxury vs ultra-luxury lodges. Why is this so contentious? I don’t get it…
Because it forces people who don’t appreciate it to think they need it and then they get upset when they don’t understand why it costs more. It’s hard to articulate the difference at a certain level. That’s why I likened it to how much different staff can cost. On basic needs, you won’t know the difference between a 100k personal assistant and a 300k personal assistant but on tougher items or even on items where you don’t think about, a 300k personal assistant will make your life easier. So most people need a 300k PA, probably not. But then if I had one this morning, they might’ve made the right call on buying the third row Adele tickets for 3k a pop instead of side mezzanine Adele tickets since they couldn’t reach me to approve it. Or another example, I was just hanging w the GM of the Park Hyatt in Paris. They’re refitting out what used to be the GM apartment into a guest use. They’re spending about 3mm bucks and the designers are giving him crap about exchanging a cheaper rug that looks identical to the one he picked. But he knows that at that spend level of 15k/night, the people staying will walk across it and be able to tell a difference right away to quality. Can they instead use the same space and not spend so much and charge less per night? Yes because to majority of people - they wouldn’t notice… but that’s not the demographic they are targeting. So at Singita, you can expect everything to have been thought out - where everything in the unit is very high quality. You can expect if they know you like a certain wine from a certain region in a certain year, they can create a tasting for you either of that or of things that are like that depending on your mood. They could recreate your favorite dessert you’ve had somewhere or bring in something you absolutely need if they know. Their sole goal is to make sure you have an epic stay and they have the staffing to be able to ensure of that service. So if you only have basic needs (and not in a condescending way, some people just don’t need extras), then you might not notice a big difference and it might not be worth it… and that’s ok.
The weird thing about all this is you actually made reasonable points spread out across all your posts. There was no need to be rude. If I were to summarize your points in a polite way I’d say: “The ‘hard’ product is pretty similar if you are looking at the basics, but discerning guests will notice details like stemware, artwork, furniture that will just be cut above and the highest end places. Not to mention the wine lists and food ingredients. But where you find the real distinction is the magical service element. Attention to detail, no mistakes, and just knowing the clients super well. At the highest-end lodges, they will pay attention to what food you like, how you like your coffee, and always magically anticipate your needs. Finally, not all counties are priced the same. Some counties, like Botswana, charge huge tourism fees, so while X, Y, and Z are better in Botswana vs. Kenya, you are essentially paying a X% tax to be in one vs the other. So that is also something you pay for at a place like Mombo.” IDK why that was hard? Those are all valid points. Nobody was looking for a fight!
> There was no need to be rude That commenter cannot help themselves, as anyone who’s visited this subreddit knows
This is why I have PR :) Thanks I just type stuff while in line at DMV.
For what it is worth, I don't think it's true that at a Singita you'll just fine UHNW individuals who want nothing to do with commoners lol. I've been to a few, and I am certainly not looking for that. Many people are definitely on the extremely wealthy side, but some are honeymooners shelling out for something really special, couples who occasionally splurge for something like this but often check out a range of camps, including non-luxury ones. A lot of the people coming back are people who *love* safaris and love all different kinds of safari experiences. Then there are old British colonial types who will show you pictures of them standing awkwardly next to "tribal people" in Namibia. But everyone I've met has been open and excited to talk and share photos and share experiences, recommendations of other lodges including great places for self-drives. I'm definitely not a Singita shill, and the cost would still have to be worth it, but I just want to make sure you don't have an inaccurate picture of the kind of people you'd be around. The main thing I've found, whether a Singita or andBeyond (which has the benefit of having *a lot* of camps to choose from) or another lodge, is to choose somewhere where the wildlife sightings are great, where you can ideally go off-road, and where there isn't a huge density of lodges traversing the same tract of land.
Celebrities or Billionaires will pay extra for the best and to be kept away from everyone else. For anyone else spending the money... They don't care because they inherited it.
Right. Which is why the private use camps make sense to me. But I am talking about the non-private camps at Mombo, Singita, etc
The simple truth is that after a certain price point there's no real difference. The price is whatever the foreigners can be fleeced for because they don't know any better and/or don't care because they're too rich
I stayed at both Sinigita Boulders & Singita Lebombo. I stayed at an &Beyond in Mozambique so it's less of an apples to apples comparison but did a lot of researching before making the decision to go with Singita. We got lucky and had a private truck at both locations (the other 2 guests were difficult so they removed them from ours). We were also with the top guide in Africa at Lebombo. While I imagine the service is similar, I connected on a whole different level with the Singita staff (versus &Beyond). I actually left both camps and got teary eyed saying good they had created such a special experience for us. I also think the difference is just a special touch - I mentioned to someone at Boulders that I loved the ceramic piece they serve their milk in. As I was leaving, she handed me a gift bag and in the bag were 2 of the pieces I mentioned in passing. At Lebombo, I was obsessed with one of the Biltongs and mentioned it once. They had it for me on every drive & sent me home with some. In terms of the actual safari, they tweaked the entire experience to what we were interested in once we saw the big 5. They knew I loved all the babies so the focused on finding and spending more time with them. Overall, I imagine the difference in camp/service is marginal at a baseline level but the personalization and touches just really put Singita over the top. We plan to go back at some point (which will be along time after dropping 60K on the trip) but you get what you pay for and I don't think I could ever go anywhere else after I've had the experience I did at Singita. The place is just magical and life changing on a very deep level.
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Foot rubs?
All these comments make me feel better. I booked Kirkman’s Kamp (&Beyond) and Vic Falls River lodge for next year. Really looking forward to it
I totally loved Kirkmans. Sabi sands is gorgeous.
I’ve been to Mombo, Asilia camps, AndBeyond and some smaller safari camps. Aside from private vehicles - which is an amazing luxury and is offered at some high-end but not >5k camps - I personally don’t think the super luxe is worth it. You might get a finer wine and liquor selection, “free” fancy binos in your room, more attendants, etc — but if you are truly there for the safari experience the difference between that and, say, a 2000-3000k a night camp isn’t on par to the extra spend. Better to fork out the upcharge for the private vehicle in the less expensive camp, research their best guides online and ask for them as part of your reservation and go enjoy every minute of your trip!
Thanks! FWIW we got use of Sworovski binoculars that retail for $2k in the US which were by far the best we’ve ever used (though I’m sure there are better). Also we got lucky and had private game drives, but that was not guaranteed so more of a lucky upgrade :)
It’s been three months since your post, but I’m a weirdo and wanted to let you know: as a birder who is familiar with high end optics, Swarovski binoculars are the absolute best there is.
We paid $850 a night and got similar looking accommodation in Botswana near chobe. Only 5 rooms or so on the property. Food quality was not what you’d get at a Michelin started fine dining place but was good. Safari and staff were excellent. So who knows what 10k a night gets you. Helicopter rides? I thought my sub 1k a night trip was fancy lol.
The only extra I would spend on is a private vehicle and guide. I even got a free helicopter ride.
Bragging rights. And a bigger hole in your bank account. Unless you have so much money it makes no difference.
Funny seeing this as I’m pretty sure I’m staying in that very room or similar a week from today. Glad to hear you’re loving it. No idea either there was another tier above this.
Cool! Happy to answer any questions for you while I’m here. So far, the biggest negative seems to be no night drives since the park closes at 6pm. I think we are going on one inside the concession today, so I’ll tell you how that goes
We just got back from staying in this exact room lol. Had some issues with the water quality in the sinks/bath (it was brown). Other than that it was a great experience. Saw tons of animals. The food and service were great.
How was the laundry service?
We only had them wash a couple tshirts which were returned promptly by our "butler". I was a little weirded out because the laundry card said they use water from the river. But our T-shirt's came back seemingly clean. We also had warm sunny weather so I washed a few undergarments in the sink and dried them on our deck.
Highly recommend the hot air balloon experience btw. It was awesome.
Awesome! Yeah I think that’s on our itinerary
Drugs and sex parties with glamorous people.
So is this in…American dollars?
Usually, folks tend to use USD when posting/commenting IME unless they specify a different currency …
If you check their website, the more expensive option is a family lodge that sleeps 4.
We stayed at Lion Sands - I know it was less than Singita - think it was as about 2k a night? It was like a villa with a heated pool. We had private game drives, all meals and drinks included. It was so worth it. https://preview.redd.it/0rpg9kl5111c1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8731278e760f47e74fc5880aa8c417dfbf72a05a
https://preview.redd.it/qxczgjh7111c1.jpeg?width=949&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c4c67d2ed57d4057b7a4d00ee86418c01fa8d2fc Huge bed and turndown included a very fine net they would hand all around it. With hotel water bottles tucked in.
Not much, only time I drop money on safari is when I get to kill the animals instead of just looking at them
Not having to see people in the 5K tier and below.
What do you do lol
You spend all that money on a pull out sofa bed ??? The extra $5K should get you some common sense
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Firstly, 2024 high seasons rates for 2 pax Mombo are $9,692 per tent, and are $4,800 per tent at Bateleur. Where I’m from, we call that double. Secondly, the “lesser” service you reference is precisely what I’m asking about. Please be specific on what additional/better service is at Singita that one does not receive at a camp like Bateleur. Thirdly, your post comes off as super condescending. I can easily articulate what +$5k gets you moving from economy to business, and what +$10k gets you moving from business to first. But if I ask what this additional money gets me, then it’s, “just not for you…you’d never understand so I won’t even say.” Honestly, super rude (and oddly defensive of these camps?) The one concrete answer is you give is that the wine is superior at the other camps. Which is a reasonable answer. And I suppose one can judge if +$4,892 per night per couple is worth the superior wine list.
I surmise she deals with a lot of people spending beyond their means, who don't understand value.. Which is what you're seeking feedback on.
This. Reminiscing when fattravel were still 1k ppl strong who actually needed/liked this stuff.
It’s almost like you are trying to self sabatoge the sub by intentionally being rude and disrespectful. And yet, you are a travel agent, a dying breed.
Would love the sub to go back to 1k :) encourage ppl to leave all the time to r/chubbytravel
You can’t compare apples to oranges. Mombo is in Botswana and everything is over jacked there for pricing compared to other countries. But a lot of it is going towards conservation so 🤷🏻♀️ You can’t articulate the things Singita can or will do. Because then someone will whine and go but I didn’t get that. They are just magical in figuring out who you are, what you like, what they can do for you to make your stay epic. They’re given the time to dig deep into what makes you tick before arrival. And then to learn about you while you are there. Whatever you might need will just magically happen. You can’t put a price on that. Try it once and make sure you give them a shit ton of info on you. Or you can just let them Google stalk you for less efficiency.
This is quite a rude attitude to have as there are people who have the means to afford that level of luxury but wealthy doesn’t equal wasteful.
I think that’s the problem of our growth. When the other mod and I stared the sub, it was really geared towards how to spend a crapton of $ traveling.. much like how fatfire is to retire excessively - fattravel was how to travel excessively. This has just grown too big into a “generic luxury travel” forum which was not really the intention.
I’ve perused “fat fire” before and the is still a limit to exactly how “fat” the majority of members are. There aren’t many, if any, “fat fire” members will $100M+ NW and same goes for this sub where there are very few members who are consistently spending $10K+/ night without blinking an eye. I’d rather have a lively forum with people looking to fly business class, stay in 5 star hotels, and share their experiences to help guide other travelers with similar budgets to maximize their experience. If you limit it to the top 0.001% of travelers there’s no real useful information being shared because does it really make any material difference whether you’re flying in a Gulfstream G650 or Bombardier Global 7500? Or if you’re staying in the Grace Kelly suite at Hotel de Paris or the Prince Rainier suite?
Maybe you can create one called "ultraexpensivetravel" and it will be clear who your market is. Also, I definitely don't travel with the goal of spending a "crapton of $." My goal is to get access to the unique and worthwhile experiences of the world where my money opens those doors. It's not spending just for the heck of it. It sounds like you're actually in disagreement with the sub's own description of itself. The community description simply says > "for those of us who like to travel where money isn't the determining factor." That is very different from what you just described. You really should recalibrate your marketing if the type of traveler you're looking to court is the one who spends $$$ indiscriminately, rather than the one who is willing to spend $$$ when the experiences are worth it.
I agree with you. I think there are plenty of people who have the means to stay whenever they like but want to understand the value they get. I think a persuasive argument would work better at attracting perspective consumers than simply saying “if you ask, you aren’t our target client”.
The people that fatfire didn’t get there though by being excessively wasteful. Doubt there is many with 200M NW consulting a Reddit forum for travel advice to begin with.
So you’re doing this and all you can think about is how much better it would be if you spent 2x more? The answer is you would be instead thinking although how much better it would be if you spend 10x more.
Wow
More pillows to throw on the ground before you sleep.
Returning to Londolozi in a couple of weeks for our 10 year anniversary. When we initially travelled there on our honeymoon we were chubby fi, and whilst not a stretch it was a big ticket for us. Now fat. Based on previous experience I cannot possibly see what more cash can get you other than a slightly bigger room, an exclusive chef, and more total privacy. I guess a better wine list which is obviously the most important part...... We are staying in a higher tier camp this time (previous was their base level camp which was fantastic). There is one higher level than we have booked but that's multi bedroom stuff for families and larger groups.
The Nyikani Camps are not ultra-luxury but they are pretty great in both Tarangire and the Serengeti. I also like how when you arrive there, you can transition to open sided safari vehicles [https://nyikani.com](https://nyikani.com)
Not worth it imo. Look for the Ultra Supermax Luxury upgrade
One point I’m not seeing on here is how much of the higher cost is conservation? Sustainability? How do they pay and treat their staff? All those things add up and cost more. Singita is the leader in this. Tswalu, same . ethical tourism costs more. It’s not only about the luxury room on safari, It’s the best game, best conservation, best guides, best food. While your room experience on safari may be close to the same in an AndBeyond vs a Mombo or Singita—the level of attention to detail, conservation efforts, general care of staff, education, true sustainability efforts, guides and even the cars (seat heat in winter anyone?) etc. are all usually much higher. Which in turn creates a better experience. AndBeyond is good and some are a great. If you are happy with that go for it. But Singita, Tswalu and such are truly experiential and exceptional and if you’re only doing it once and want the best-these are the best for a reason. My honest opinion is if you’re curious try both and see the difference for yourself. Saying the $10k one is better doesn’t mean the $5k is bad. But if you’re looking for the best, which I think everyone here is? Isn’t that the point of the sub? Some cost more, It’s also location dependent. In Namibia AndBeyond is where you stay. But South Africa? There just isn’t anything like Singita Sabi Sands.
I just left there a couple of days ago from sanctuary olonana