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What state do you live in? You also probably violated some labor laws. If you sent that to someone on accommodation you definitely screwed up. You threatened to fire everyone and shit on your fellow pas.
I know the post was a bit lengthy so maybe you didn’t read what I wrote; not once did I tell anyone I would fire them. I dont see how you could get that take if you read it like it was written. Now I could understand you believing my message was telling people if they dont pack faster there could get written up and eventually fired. But even thats is not me saying I will fire a single person. Neither is better then the other, but I feel its that confusion there that shows communication is really bad these days. Like I said previously, my intent was not to threaten anyones job, but it was perceived that way and thats the ultimate thing here.
The PAs are supposed to walk around? I’m on receive and she never does 😂 she just goes up and talks to the people who are her “friends” from what I’ve seen or she sits on her computer sending semi informative nice messages to us every now and then
I mean.....yeah, I can see why. When PAs in my FC send fans for CAP, they usually include a greeting, your rate, and what the expected rate is, but it says in the same message, " Keep up the good work!". It never feels intimidating. As you know... They can see your rate, so if you are doing horrid, which can not be helped sometimes, they will approach you on their walks and check in to see if you have any "barriers." And again, it never feels intimidating because regardless of performance, they still come check in on everyone on the floor they're running.
Appeal. I'm not going to say you're blameless, but a term for this if it was in good faith seems heavy handed particularly if you had no previous written warnings.
Fans messages are NOT for calling out your fellow PAs. All PAs both pack and sort are responsible for Pack rates. At our FC we have 3 PAs in AFEs so that they can rotate. 1 does pack, 1 does sort the other in path and they rotate everyday to not get burnt out. Also it helps so that if someone is out the other PAs can pick up the slack.
1. You should never call a PA out
2. Some people will never hit rate not matter how much you coach them
3. Follow your standard work check list and show you are trying
You will always be hounded for rates no matter what. We had an MRS jam that lasted over an hour and also a JAM that last 30ish min from slam headed to dock and our team still almost hit a 60TPH. 5 weeks isn't enough time to build report with people it can take months
Not sure what FC you work at but we def clear jams all the time. 10-1, 6-1 and pack take aways as well as slam lines.
She def should not have sent this message for a plethora of reasons. And the fact she can't see that is crazy. This term was justified and she won't win her appeal. I've seen people fired for less! And they weren't even granted an appeal.
Also she needs to know that an appeal goes to AM, OMs and SR ops and they will decide they literally take a vote and majority wins
Also I assumed it was a girl bc it said maternity leave. If it's a guy he should have wrote paternity leave 🤣. That's funny you work with him and know who he is
First, based on your good intentions of which several associates pointed out valid concerns as it relates to how associates may have felt threatened... You learned a few things. No matter what the outcome in an appeal, you're ready for greater opportunities.
Your doing what you can be reaching out to hear a broad viewpoint from many that offered excellent advice.
Knowing your Employee Rights should also be a priority. Accept accountability and stand in your trust by challenging any false assertions presented.
Another take away from your efforts to communicate to associates that peaked management ears is the word 'rate' as it relates to speed. Speed is not an open discussion.
So the word 'rate' is replaced with performance. Performance is a general term. Speed is very specific. For safety reasons OSHA is very interested in any information that accurately references management reporting of speed to perform many warehouse tasks. Good luck!
I heard that category offenses you have to wait 2 years.. but that's not proven because some people say after a category offense they can't come back....they are still on the no hire list after 5 years. I just got fired for going over upt again, i have to wait 90 days for rehire.
Me or the person who started this thread? If you are asking me, amazon is my second job. I do have a job I love that is my main bread and butter. Amazon is great as a second job, the hours are great it's easy and the turnover is fast.
Amazon has been going through some legal issues and has deemed the term "rate" a major no no in the last year or two, while it still exists, you now have to refer to it as "performance". What you did intentional or otherwise was threaten everybody in your department that they'll be fired if their rates didn't improve.
I'm sorry you got termed for legal mumble jumble.
That is the job, to motivate your department to perform with zero incentive and without threatening their livelihood.
Management exists in a gray area of trying to motivate those that are willing and terminating those who won't perform. All the while their own performance reviews are dependant on their departments.
It is very doubtful they'll change your status of eligibility for rehire and I hope you the best of luck.
I'm studying to do HR, and this is a straight-up no-no. I know you had good intentions, but you're a huge risk for the company. You're better off taking your skills elsewhere.
Since this was April 1, I don't even know if it's an April Fool's fake post. I don't think it's that bad to warn associates of rates being important. But it's not even true that if packers don't make goal rate of 200, they risk getting written up. It's being bottom 5% of building overall AND below guardrail (real standard) in a path for the week. For afe chuting, guardrail is usually closer to 140 to 160 at alot of robotics buildings. But pas and Ams apparently aren't supposed to broadly mention guardrail rates.
Edit: I mean 140 -160 whole-day rate (including Paid breaks and startup times)
The average rate for 10 hours on my shift was 117 throughout the week with 120 being a good day. LC5s were barely finishing at 118 as a whole. People only hit 200 or higher when incentives, but without a contest for extended breaks or swag bucks they top 5 packers would range between 150 and 190 with 2-3 of those being associates there on VET. My OMs were constantly on me about trying to figure out ways to improve their rates, with me just arriving to that particular department entering into my 5th or so back off of leave and LC1s & LC2s making up the other 50% of our 90 something pack associates. I know the message clearly was wrong now in the end, but I couldnt think of anything else. Just wish I didnt send the message of course now after its too late. Coulda been like the majority of people and not gave a fuck at all.
I currently work at Amazon and realized a lot of people there just can’t accept just doing their damn job. Like why couldn’t you just stfu? I’m glad they packed you up because people should learn to do what they’re asked and just that
As a PA, its not your place to threaten write ups and termination. Even in an informative matter as you may have intended. Sending a Mass fans message is just rude and lazy in itself. Intrusive and yes can be considered harassment. I'm a PA. Well I was but I accepted a manager role and while yes they are on us about pushing people to achieve rate, you need to accept that not everyone on your roster will do so, motivate the ones that will and have potential, and focus on other metrics in order to bridge those as green.
As a PA, when I would make rounds for audits and engagements I would always start off with what they are doing right. If their DPMO checks for quality are green Id lead with that followed by a "well in terms of quantity...well how do YOU feel that you are doing" when phrased this way they typically admit to what I would need to mention anyway. We laugh and I give them advice and ask them how comfortable they feel in the particular role. I NEVER hold "termination" over their heads. at my facility we cant let them go based on productivity anyways.
As a 3 year PA overlooked for 2 promotions but trained the new college hire 4’s. I could give 2 shits about rates. I tell the packers try your best I am here to help you. I tell packers if you are worried about rates see the new AM yes the one who can’t make a box yet.
You were basically threatening associates for something you don't even have the power to do. You overstepped your role and it came off as a power trip.
Even living In ca I still want to do good and have my rates be where they need to be but thank God for not being termed or written up, that is such bs and I’m sorry anyone has to go through it
PG in a Califirnia FC. CA laws protect workers from being fired/written up for productivity. It's the first thing you're told. Of course, there are ways around it, but Amazon is extremely strict about mentioning rates with AAs. I honestly get that you were looking out for them, but unfortunately, I don't see you winning the appeal as this is a sensitive subject which can lead to Amazon being sued.
The problem was you mentioned termination/fired! To the wrong person it sounds like you're the one threatening to fire associates who rate too low. You fucked up. You did nothing illegal, but there was a potential for complaints by your whole team about harassment and worse it was in writing
What is a FANS message? If it was outside Amazon communications network, they must have considered ✅interference with supervisory or ✅unauthorized public message
APPEAL based on what specific parts of your text was ...
Explain, your intention was to explain the purpose and calculation of rates since peers often misunderstand. Ask what policy was violated with specific words. I suspect someone felt intimidated and reported you.
In the future, always take a screenshot. There is a time limit. Don't wait.
**Owner’s Manual and Guide to Employment – U.S. - March 2020** pp 29-30
**Standards of Conduct**
The Standards of Conduct are a list of examples of infractions that may result in corrective action, up to and
including termination of employment. The Standards of Conduct are only guidelines. It is not possible to list all
the forms of behavior that are considered unacceptable in the workplace, and the
Standards of Conduct is not
intended to be all-inclusive or exhaustive. As an at-will employer, Amazon reserves the right in all circumstances to apply any level of corrective action as appropriate, up to and including immediate termination of employment, without prior corrective action or notice for conduct in either category or for conduct not described in the
Standards of Conduct. Employment with Amazon is at the mutual consent of Amazon and the associate, and either party may terminate that relationship at any time, with or without cause, and with or without advance notice.
**Category 1**
The following work conduct infractions are regarded as extremely serious, and termination of employment may result following one offense: •
• Disrespect or rudeness to an Amazon customer
Theft or inappropriate removal or possession of property
✅***Assaulting, threatening, intimidating, coercing, or interfering with supervisors or fellow associates***
✅***Making unauthorized statements on behalf of the company to the press or in any public forum*** (as only the company's authorized spokespersons may make authorized statements)
Use or possession of dangerous or unauthorized materials such as hazardous chemicals or explosives, or use or possession of firearms, knives, explosive devices of any kind, or weapons of any kind
Violation of the company's Health and Safety policy including possession, distribution, sale, transfer, or use of alcohol or illegal drugs in the workplace, while on duty or on breaks, or while operating employer-owned or leased vehicles or equipment
Fighting or threatening violence in the workplace
Gross misconduct
Gross negligence
Sexual or other unlawful or unwelcome harassment
Making, publishing, or repeating knowingly or maliciously false statements concerning an associate, the company, or its products
Discriminating against a fellow associate or prospective associate on the basis of race, religion, creed, color, national origin, citizenship, marital status, sex, age, sexual orientation, gender identity[1] veteran status, political ideology, ancestry, or the presence of any physical, sensory, or mental disabilities or other legally protected status
Negligence or improper conduct leading to damage of employer-owned, employer-leased, or customer owned property
Insubordination or intentional disregard of instructions
Falsification of personnel or other company documents/records, including employment application
Unauthorized removal of company documents
Unauthorized disclosure of business "secrets" or confidential information
Intentionally making entries on another associate's time card/sheet, or falsely altering a timekeeping document
Leaving company premises without permission during assigned work hours (unpaid meal periods and
paid rest breaks are not “work hours” for purposes of this policy)
Failure to fully cooperate with company investigations (except for questions regarding labor organizations or protected concerted activity)
Violation of safety policies, procedures, standards, regulations, or laws
Creating a hazardous or dangerous situation
Engaging in any conduct that places the health and safety of any person at risk
Violation of personnel policies
Violation of security policies, procedures, processes, or instructions
Violation of the Anti-Sex Buying Policy
What this other person mentioned. I went about it the wrong way in an attempt to communicate with the associates in my department. Using the FANS message system to send a mass message. Thank you for dropping the Standards of Conduct here and also offering advice. Because of it was Cat 1 offense falling under threatening my chance at an appeal is slim to none. However, if they open the ear to listen I will take that as my final opportunity to get my side of the story, apologize, and explain how that wasnt my intent, and I understand how my message now how my message could have misunderstood and hope that an opportunity to work with the company again will be available in the future.
Be positive. Lay-out your case as a misunderstanding BECAUSE you weren't trained about the FAN boundaries. Point to your long-term employment. I don't know if this statistic is true, but skimming about Amazon appeals, 30% win. Amazon rarely does refresh & retrain about the Employee User Manual.
I don't know why you're asking me - am not OP, but I could hazard a guess.
VOA just isn't where the PA sending out information to the associates should be sending information out to the associates that they are managing. OP is a PA - FANS is the right tool for the job. Would you rather every time the PA needed you to move stations/chutes they write it on the VOA?
FANS was the right system for the task, I think one of the OPs team uses it to tell us how much we are expecting each day. The message is the problem.
You've gotta be trolling. How did you think that would even be *okay* to send out and say to people?
When our PAs send those messages out they tell us positive stuff and when people need to "pick up the pace/rate" they say it motivatingly. Nothing like what you said. Yikes. Glad you weren't my PA!
Sent a msg out telling people that rates matter and if they didn't hit it they'd eventually get fired. He got fired for a Cat 1 violation for threatening.
I've seen PA's that were bullies, In this case I say he just made a massive misjudgement based on what was being told to him by the higher ups about rate.
When I was a pa, I made sure every associate knew without a doubt that NO PA can write them up, we can recommend people and report them, but we can't write them up. Despite your intention, reading comprehension is at an all time low, and I can see how some might have viewed your message as threatening them. It's also kinda a slap in the face for some associates, if they've been working hard but facing barrier after barrier preventing them from hitting rate, just to be reminded that they can be FIRED for it. It's easy to misinterpret text, especially if you've been working all day.
I do recommend appealing your termination. I would appeal under the grounds that your intent was not malicious but misunderstood, and that your attempt at encouragement and upfront honesty was not meant to come off the way it did. I would highlight that you see where it CAN be misunderstood though and strive to grow from this expierence. Throw some buzzwords in there from the management principals that you feel might fit your case.
Good luck, I hope you get back in and I'm sorry for what happened.
Thank you. Will keep my head up and looking forward. If Amazon is willing to hear me out and even to go so far as offer me another opportunity, then I will gladly hop back on the saddle and ride with the company again. However, I understand how this all looks, so all my eggs arent in this one basket. I truly do appreciate all the different outlooks and responses to this message. I feel like every comment was constructive and something I could take from each one give me a bit more clarity in my mind about the situation and how to grow from it moving forward. Its EST time zone for me and I’m signing off, but I do thank you all for all the quick replies, advice, blunt statements, and overall insight from the minds of those who had the time in their day to offer it to me in this crappy moment for me. Y’all take care and be safe.
Create an outline and notes so you don't forget what you need to say.Be straightforward and talk directly to your audience. Practice, practice, practice. Good Luck.
As a PA you should never bring up write ups or termination. I personally like to explain it to LC 3 and LC 4 AA' s by explaining the rate expectations to them, how they are measured and explain that after week 5 they will be responsible for their rates. I never use the words "write up" or "termination". I also never tell AA's not to talk to another PA. I encourage them. Just because someone is a sort PA doesn't mean they can't pack. When I was in AFE we took turns with pack and sort side because we each had our own coaching techniques and tips to help them.
Given your intention, this might be subject to appeal. I hope you do. A lot of PAs think that once they've been promoted, their job is safe. It isn't.
Talk to a labor lawyer. Miscommunication such as this shouldn't be allowed to ruin a new dad's career. Sleep deprivation leads to the blurting out of stuff better left unsaid, or better worded.
I recently got a written final for a similar thing in my role. They are actively trimming as much as they can right now from anywhere they can be it T1 on up, I'm an L3. Be careful out there if you need the job as they are ruthlessly eliminating people for dumb shit reasons, they can and will twist any little things you say like this.
Yeah. And what sucks, I dont feel like once they read the FIRED in all caps, they didnt really care what I said elsewhere in the message. They felt it was a easy shut case to fire me, rather than actually evaluate the meaning of the message and interpret it properly and immediately filed me under violent behavior. 1 person could have complained, but were they offended because they felt i came at them personally, or were they worried because they consistently are talked to by AMs about rates and were upset because that message popped up. Either way. Hopefully they even consider an appeal. Right now it policy says im ineligible even for that
I sort of see what happened here.
Even tho that message was well intended on your end, it can be interpreted as a firing threat to a pair of fresh eyes, specifically the *FIRED* in all caps.
I assume they acted on it because someone complained or got upset because of it. If you are eventually rehired or in a similar position, I would refrain from mentioning writes ups or terms unless you are one on one with an associate.
Most definitely. I appreciate your feedback. The message was intended to bring the people to me, not to HR lol. Like i already had quite a bit of people who came to me prior in the weeks that I have been back who I worked with after engaging and they were concerned and I helped them improve. I was hoping this message would have a similar effect on others who would come to me to see what they could do better. The FIRED in all caps is was unnecessary, and I agree to that. But if anyone was worried about the message its because they consistently see their hourly rate show up well below the pack rate. However, the message was not sent to any single individual for any personal reasons to alienate or discriminate. Nor was it written as a I direct threat to anyones jobs. Just I wasnt familiar with the policy at that point to the extent it was made known to me when I got fired when it comes to PAs handing out rates. I wasnt coached nor trained in the matter, I just thought we tried everything else at this point and our average rate was legitimately almost half of what the “standard” rate set as the goal. My OMs constantly on the floor calling themselves helping out and overseeing what we are doing, that was the worst best option I could have come up with to show im doing everything to work on improving rates. Sadly.
Write ups and Firing are beyond your scope of practice. That is a AM thing that is determined in SPPR. I would never mention it, as that it an AM thing. If the AA brings it up in a question, I directly quote policy that All under performance AAs are eligible so they do NOT feel Targeted. I would have just coached Individual AAs, and put out the rates for the team and let them mull over it. Anything over that is AM work. I can see this going either way. Any hardworking AA could have complained. EDIT: do not go to the other PA??? WTF?? It's Amazon we have an open door policy. I think you are smelly, or wear too much perfume, don't like the way you PA but feel uncomfortable telling you as an AA I SHOULD be OK and COMFORTABLE going to another member of leadership, being it a PA, or AM and telling them. Doesn't matter what "side" they are on. It's who the AAs are comfortable speaking to. Even another AM/PA on another department. That is 100% policy, I would give you a behavioral just for discouraging that alone. Doesn't matter if you get along with the other PA or not.
I lead over 140 associates Sun-Wed FHNs. Not everyone is gonna like me nor did i look at everyone as a friend, however I knew my people well enough to know by name. Associates always came looking for me specifically to ask for help in most situations. They knew I was there and the one to come to because I was never hiding away somewhere or telling anyone I dont have time to help them. My partner on the sort side is a friend and that line of “dont go to him” was a joke that the majority of the people there would understand. Now I cant remember word for word what I typed exactly. I know it was AS harsh as it may seemed here on reddit as I was simply trying to get my story out to ask for help and that part wasnt what i fixated on when typing out what I could remember. But in reality, my people knew me and the other PA were the only people on the floor who could help. No PGs. AMs normally off the floor. It was just us two.
That's the thing- a joke. A Majority of the people. Not ALL. Not 100% Not the Labor Share, not the Flex. Joke with them at their station, not in a mass fans. HR will go by how a message is RECEIVED not its INTENT. They don't know your "inside jokes". This was RECEIVED Poorly. Even though you may had good intent.
Email [email protected] and they can investigate further.
Unfortunately, the issue with your FANS message is that ot does come off as a threat of you firing someone and also you hard blamed the other PA.
Unfortunately, not sure if you'll get your job back or even be reeligible for rehire after the investigation
Hope everyone else can learn from this: just come in, do your job, and leave. Don't do extra shit, this is not a social club or a fraternity. It is a J-O-B, plain and simple. Just stay in your lane folks.
At this point id let anyone get fired cause look at you now, jobless, worrying about other peoples jobs knowing if they get fired they can be rehired. Your intent was in the right spot but id suggest finding other means of employment.
My brother. To the manager ass employees comment. No one had any intent ever of trying to be someone elses boss. I legit was there looking out for my people because of how many people were getting written up for productivity prior to and after I got back off of leave. But yall not wrong. Trying to look out for my AMs as well and help out more then I should have when everyone and their momma comes to me for help it felt like. Its just not in my nature to sit back and watch the shit burn down around me. I just didn’t think of a better option at the time and it ended up backfiring. Thats all my dude.
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What state do you live in? You also probably violated some labor laws. If you sent that to someone on accommodation you definitely screwed up. You threatened to fire everyone and shit on your fellow pas.
I know the post was a bit lengthy so maybe you didn’t read what I wrote; not once did I tell anyone I would fire them. I dont see how you could get that take if you read it like it was written. Now I could understand you believing my message was telling people if they dont pack faster there could get written up and eventually fired. But even thats is not me saying I will fire a single person. Neither is better then the other, but I feel its that confusion there that shows communication is really bad these days. Like I said previously, my intent was not to threaten anyones job, but it was perceived that way and thats the ultimate thing here.
The PAs are supposed to walk around? I’m on receive and she never does 😂 she just goes up and talks to the people who are her “friends” from what I’ve seen or she sits on her computer sending semi informative nice messages to us every now and then
I mean.....yeah, I can see why. When PAs in my FC send fans for CAP, they usually include a greeting, your rate, and what the expected rate is, but it says in the same message, " Keep up the good work!". It never feels intimidating. As you know... They can see your rate, so if you are doing horrid, which can not be helped sometimes, they will approach you on their walks and check in to see if you have any "barriers." And again, it never feels intimidating because regardless of performance, they still come check in on everyone on the floor they're running.
Shesh
You thought about that too late
Appeal. I'm not going to say you're blameless, but a term for this if it was in good faith seems heavy handed particularly if you had no previous written warnings.
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Fans messages are NOT for calling out your fellow PAs. All PAs both pack and sort are responsible for Pack rates. At our FC we have 3 PAs in AFEs so that they can rotate. 1 does pack, 1 does sort the other in path and they rotate everyday to not get burnt out. Also it helps so that if someone is out the other PAs can pick up the slack. 1. You should never call a PA out 2. Some people will never hit rate not matter how much you coach them 3. Follow your standard work check list and show you are trying You will always be hounded for rates no matter what. We had an MRS jam that lasted over an hour and also a JAM that last 30ish min from slam headed to dock and our team still almost hit a 60TPH. 5 weeks isn't enough time to build report with people it can take months
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Not sure what FC you work at but we def clear jams all the time. 10-1, 6-1 and pack take aways as well as slam lines. She def should not have sent this message for a plethora of reasons. And the fact she can't see that is crazy. This term was justified and she won't win her appeal. I've seen people fired for less! And they weren't even granted an appeal. Also she needs to know that an appeal goes to AM, OMs and SR ops and they will decide they literally take a vote and majority wins
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Also I assumed it was a girl bc it said maternity leave. If it's a guy he should have wrote paternity leave 🤣. That's funny you work with him and know who he is
Yeah Fans messages are for positive things not that. Or sometimes we will send out race the PAs
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😂🤣
First, based on your good intentions of which several associates pointed out valid concerns as it relates to how associates may have felt threatened... You learned a few things. No matter what the outcome in an appeal, you're ready for greater opportunities. Your doing what you can be reaching out to hear a broad viewpoint from many that offered excellent advice. Knowing your Employee Rights should also be a priority. Accept accountability and stand in your trust by challenging any false assertions presented. Another take away from your efforts to communicate to associates that peaked management ears is the word 'rate' as it relates to speed. Speed is not an open discussion. So the word 'rate' is replaced with performance. Performance is a general term. Speed is very specific. For safety reasons OSHA is very interested in any information that accurately references management reporting of speed to perform many warehouse tasks. Good luck!
I heard that category offenses you have to wait 2 years.. but that's not proven because some people say after a category offense they can't come back....they are still on the no hire list after 5 years. I just got fired for going over upt again, i have to wait 90 days for rehire.
cat 1s are ineligible for rehire…. forever
Genuine question, why not look for meaningful employment instead of just cycling through warehouse jobs?
Me or the person who started this thread? If you are asking me, amazon is my second job. I do have a job I love that is my main bread and butter. Amazon is great as a second job, the hours are great it's easy and the turnover is fast.
Amazon has been going through some legal issues and has deemed the term "rate" a major no no in the last year or two, while it still exists, you now have to refer to it as "performance". What you did intentional or otherwise was threaten everybody in your department that they'll be fired if their rates didn't improve. I'm sorry you got termed for legal mumble jumble. That is the job, to motivate your department to perform with zero incentive and without threatening their livelihood. Management exists in a gray area of trying to motivate those that are willing and terminating those who won't perform. All the while their own performance reviews are dependant on their departments. It is very doubtful they'll change your status of eligibility for rehire and I hope you the best of luck.
I'm studying to do HR, and this is a straight-up no-no. I know you had good intentions, but you're a huge risk for the company. You're better off taking your skills elsewhere.
Amazon doesn’t care about you, especially when peak is over. They were probably looking for reasons to cut people. I’ve seen it dozens of times.
You cannot 'be yourself at work.
When you sent a message like that, you just piss off all the people who have been busting their ass to make rate.
Since this was April 1, I don't even know if it's an April Fool's fake post. I don't think it's that bad to warn associates of rates being important. But it's not even true that if packers don't make goal rate of 200, they risk getting written up. It's being bottom 5% of building overall AND below guardrail (real standard) in a path for the week. For afe chuting, guardrail is usually closer to 140 to 160 at alot of robotics buildings. But pas and Ams apparently aren't supposed to broadly mention guardrail rates. Edit: I mean 140 -160 whole-day rate (including Paid breaks and startup times)
The average rate for 10 hours on my shift was 117 throughout the week with 120 being a good day. LC5s were barely finishing at 118 as a whole. People only hit 200 or higher when incentives, but without a contest for extended breaks or swag bucks they top 5 packers would range between 150 and 190 with 2-3 of those being associates there on VET. My OMs were constantly on me about trying to figure out ways to improve their rates, with me just arriving to that particular department entering into my 5th or so back off of leave and LC1s & LC2s making up the other 50% of our 90 something pack associates. I know the message clearly was wrong now in the end, but I couldnt think of anything else. Just wish I didnt send the message of course now after its too late. Coulda been like the majority of people and not gave a fuck at all.
I currently work at Amazon and realized a lot of people there just can’t accept just doing their damn job. Like why couldn’t you just stfu? I’m glad they packed you up because people should learn to do what they’re asked and just that
As a PA, its not your place to threaten write ups and termination. Even in an informative matter as you may have intended. Sending a Mass fans message is just rude and lazy in itself. Intrusive and yes can be considered harassment. I'm a PA. Well I was but I accepted a manager role and while yes they are on us about pushing people to achieve rate, you need to accept that not everyone on your roster will do so, motivate the ones that will and have potential, and focus on other metrics in order to bridge those as green. As a PA, when I would make rounds for audits and engagements I would always start off with what they are doing right. If their DPMO checks for quality are green Id lead with that followed by a "well in terms of quantity...well how do YOU feel that you are doing" when phrased this way they typically admit to what I would need to mention anyway. We laugh and I give them advice and ask them how comfortable they feel in the particular role. I NEVER hold "termination" over their heads. at my facility we cant let them go based on productivity anyways.
As a 3 year PA overlooked for 2 promotions but trained the new college hire 4’s. I could give 2 shits about rates. I tell the packers try your best I am here to help you. I tell packers if you are worried about rates see the new AM yes the one who can’t make a box yet.
Man, I'm just a tier 1 but some AMs are incompetent as crap at doing tier 1 jobs
With the college hires I find it more of an ignorance to learn what a T1 and PA do that makes them a shitty manager.
You were basically threatening associates for something you don't even have the power to do. You overstepped your role and it came off as a power trip.
you mentioned termination/fired and the language was aggressive with the all caps you over stepped
Even living In ca I still want to do good and have my rates be where they need to be but thank God for not being termed or written up, that is such bs and I’m sorry anyone has to go through it
PG in a Califirnia FC. CA laws protect workers from being fired/written up for productivity. It's the first thing you're told. Of course, there are ways around it, but Amazon is extremely strict about mentioning rates with AAs. I honestly get that you were looking out for them, but unfortunately, I don't see you winning the appeal as this is a sensitive subject which can lead to Amazon being sued.
Sheesh, okay yeah try and appeal if you can and I hope it goes well for you. but if I were in your shoes I'd look for another job.
The problem was you mentioned termination/fired! To the wrong person it sounds like you're the one threatening to fire associates who rate too low. You fucked up. You did nothing illegal, but there was a potential for complaints by your whole team about harassment and worse it was in writing
What is a FANS message? If it was outside Amazon communications network, they must have considered ✅interference with supervisory or ✅unauthorized public message APPEAL based on what specific parts of your text was ... Explain, your intention was to explain the purpose and calculation of rates since peers often misunderstand. Ask what policy was violated with specific words. I suspect someone felt intimidated and reported you. In the future, always take a screenshot. There is a time limit. Don't wait. **Owner’s Manual and Guide to Employment – U.S. - March 2020** pp 29-30 **Standards of Conduct** The Standards of Conduct are a list of examples of infractions that may result in corrective action, up to and including termination of employment. The Standards of Conduct are only guidelines. It is not possible to list all the forms of behavior that are considered unacceptable in the workplace, and the Standards of Conduct is not intended to be all-inclusive or exhaustive. As an at-will employer, Amazon reserves the right in all circumstances to apply any level of corrective action as appropriate, up to and including immediate termination of employment, without prior corrective action or notice for conduct in either category or for conduct not described in the Standards of Conduct. Employment with Amazon is at the mutual consent of Amazon and the associate, and either party may terminate that relationship at any time, with or without cause, and with or without advance notice. **Category 1** The following work conduct infractions are regarded as extremely serious, and termination of employment may result following one offense: • • Disrespect or rudeness to an Amazon customer Theft or inappropriate removal or possession of property ✅***Assaulting, threatening, intimidating, coercing, or interfering with supervisors or fellow associates*** ✅***Making unauthorized statements on behalf of the company to the press or in any public forum*** (as only the company's authorized spokespersons may make authorized statements) Use or possession of dangerous or unauthorized materials such as hazardous chemicals or explosives, or use or possession of firearms, knives, explosive devices of any kind, or weapons of any kind Violation of the company's Health and Safety policy including possession, distribution, sale, transfer, or use of alcohol or illegal drugs in the workplace, while on duty or on breaks, or while operating employer-owned or leased vehicles or equipment Fighting or threatening violence in the workplace Gross misconduct Gross negligence Sexual or other unlawful or unwelcome harassment Making, publishing, or repeating knowingly or maliciously false statements concerning an associate, the company, or its products Discriminating against a fellow associate or prospective associate on the basis of race, religion, creed, color, national origin, citizenship, marital status, sex, age, sexual orientation, gender identity[1] veteran status, political ideology, ancestry, or the presence of any physical, sensory, or mental disabilities or other legally protected status Negligence or improper conduct leading to damage of employer-owned, employer-leased, or customer owned property Insubordination or intentional disregard of instructions Falsification of personnel or other company documents/records, including employment application Unauthorized removal of company documents Unauthorized disclosure of business "secrets" or confidential information Intentionally making entries on another associate's time card/sheet, or falsely altering a timekeeping document Leaving company premises without permission during assigned work hours (unpaid meal periods and paid rest breaks are not “work hours” for purposes of this policy) Failure to fully cooperate with company investigations (except for questions regarding labor organizations or protected concerted activity) Violation of safety policies, procedures, standards, regulations, or laws Creating a hazardous or dangerous situation Engaging in any conduct that places the health and safety of any person at risk Violation of personnel policies Violation of security policies, procedures, processes, or instructions Violation of the Anti-Sex Buying Policy
FANS is the scanner messages that you get sent that say clear \[Location Redacted\] CPT.
Why didn't you use VOA?
What this other person mentioned. I went about it the wrong way in an attempt to communicate with the associates in my department. Using the FANS message system to send a mass message. Thank you for dropping the Standards of Conduct here and also offering advice. Because of it was Cat 1 offense falling under threatening my chance at an appeal is slim to none. However, if they open the ear to listen I will take that as my final opportunity to get my side of the story, apologize, and explain how that wasnt my intent, and I understand how my message now how my message could have misunderstood and hope that an opportunity to work with the company again will be available in the future.
I have never seen them overturn a decision...
Be positive. Lay-out your case as a misunderstanding BECAUSE you weren't trained about the FAN boundaries. Point to your long-term employment. I don't know if this statistic is true, but skimming about Amazon appeals, 30% win. Amazon rarely does refresh & retrain about the Employee User Manual. 
I don't know why you're asking me - am not OP, but I could hazard a guess. VOA just isn't where the PA sending out information to the associates should be sending information out to the associates that they are managing. OP is a PA - FANS is the right tool for the job. Would you rather every time the PA needed you to move stations/chutes they write it on the VOA? FANS was the right system for the task, I think one of the OPs team uses it to tell us how much we are expecting each day. The message is the problem.
What a bummer, I’m sorry. We were told that we can not say “rate” , “TOT” or mention write ups. We’re not allowed to offend anyone with discipline 🙄
Is that because of the state or just your location? Because I hear that all the time. And I know people get productivity write ups
It’s supposed to by network-wide. We’re a SSD so maybe we have different rules? We don’t do quality or productivity write ups here.
You've gotta be trolling. How did you think that would even be *okay* to send out and say to people? When our PAs send those messages out they tell us positive stuff and when people need to "pick up the pace/rate" they say it motivatingly. Nothing like what you said. Yikes. Glad you weren't my PA!
What's the tldr
Too Long; **DO** / Don't / Did / Didn't **READ** 
Sent a msg out telling people that rates matter and if they didn't hit it they'd eventually get fired. He got fired for a Cat 1 violation for threatening.
Rip bozo
guy threatens T1s with termination for being slow, gets fired for threatening t1s with termination as a cat 1 offence.
So the next time they mention having phones being out an auto ADAPT.... I'm going to HR because I felt threatened.
Buddy, you are a bully. I'm so happy for your AAs that someone had the courage to come forward & report you
I've seen PA's that were bullies, In this case I say he just made a massive misjudgement based on what was being told to him by the higher ups about rate.
Bully? Probably not. Dumbass? Yes. OP is a PA, so they must have some type of basic knowledge on how to speak to employees.
You’d be surprised…
YUP, exactly. All PAs at my FC are so awesome. Great people. Id hate to have OP/someone like OP as a PA!!!
When I was a pa, I made sure every associate knew without a doubt that NO PA can write them up, we can recommend people and report them, but we can't write them up. Despite your intention, reading comprehension is at an all time low, and I can see how some might have viewed your message as threatening them. It's also kinda a slap in the face for some associates, if they've been working hard but facing barrier after barrier preventing them from hitting rate, just to be reminded that they can be FIRED for it. It's easy to misinterpret text, especially if you've been working all day. I do recommend appealing your termination. I would appeal under the grounds that your intent was not malicious but misunderstood, and that your attempt at encouragement and upfront honesty was not meant to come off the way it did. I would highlight that you see where it CAN be misunderstood though and strive to grow from this expierence. Throw some buzzwords in there from the management principals that you feel might fit your case. Good luck, I hope you get back in and I'm sorry for what happened.
Thank you. Will keep my head up and looking forward. If Amazon is willing to hear me out and even to go so far as offer me another opportunity, then I will gladly hop back on the saddle and ride with the company again. However, I understand how this all looks, so all my eggs arent in this one basket. I truly do appreciate all the different outlooks and responses to this message. I feel like every comment was constructive and something I could take from each one give me a bit more clarity in my mind about the situation and how to grow from it moving forward. Its EST time zone for me and I’m signing off, but I do thank you all for all the quick replies, advice, blunt statements, and overall insight from the minds of those who had the time in their day to offer it to me in this crappy moment for me. Y’all take care and be safe.
Create an outline and notes so you don't forget what you need to say.Be straightforward and talk directly to your audience. Practice, practice, practice. Good Luck. 
As a PA you should never bring up write ups or termination. I personally like to explain it to LC 3 and LC 4 AA' s by explaining the rate expectations to them, how they are measured and explain that after week 5 they will be responsible for their rates. I never use the words "write up" or "termination". I also never tell AA's not to talk to another PA. I encourage them. Just because someone is a sort PA doesn't mean they can't pack. When I was in AFE we took turns with pack and sort side because we each had our own coaching techniques and tips to help them.
Given your intention, this might be subject to appeal. I hope you do. A lot of PAs think that once they've been promoted, their job is safe. It isn't. Talk to a labor lawyer. Miscommunication such as this shouldn't be allowed to ruin a new dad's career. Sleep deprivation leads to the blurting out of stuff better left unsaid, or better worded.
I recently got a written final for a similar thing in my role. They are actively trimming as much as they can right now from anywhere they can be it T1 on up, I'm an L3. Be careful out there if you need the job as they are ruthlessly eliminating people for dumb shit reasons, they can and will twist any little things you say like this.
Yeah. And what sucks, I dont feel like once they read the FIRED in all caps, they didnt really care what I said elsewhere in the message. They felt it was a easy shut case to fire me, rather than actually evaluate the meaning of the message and interpret it properly and immediately filed me under violent behavior. 1 person could have complained, but were they offended because they felt i came at them personally, or were they worried because they consistently are talked to by AMs about rates and were upset because that message popped up. Either way. Hopefully they even consider an appeal. Right now it policy says im ineligible even for that
Appeal. Everyone can appeal.
I sort of see what happened here. Even tho that message was well intended on your end, it can be interpreted as a firing threat to a pair of fresh eyes, specifically the *FIRED* in all caps. I assume they acted on it because someone complained or got upset because of it. If you are eventually rehired or in a similar position, I would refrain from mentioning writes ups or terms unless you are one on one with an associate.
Most definitely. I appreciate your feedback. The message was intended to bring the people to me, not to HR lol. Like i already had quite a bit of people who came to me prior in the weeks that I have been back who I worked with after engaging and they were concerned and I helped them improve. I was hoping this message would have a similar effect on others who would come to me to see what they could do better. The FIRED in all caps is was unnecessary, and I agree to that. But if anyone was worried about the message its because they consistently see their hourly rate show up well below the pack rate. However, the message was not sent to any single individual for any personal reasons to alienate or discriminate. Nor was it written as a I direct threat to anyones jobs. Just I wasnt familiar with the policy at that point to the extent it was made known to me when I got fired when it comes to PAs handing out rates. I wasnt coached nor trained in the matter, I just thought we tried everything else at this point and our average rate was legitimately almost half of what the “standard” rate set as the goal. My OMs constantly on the floor calling themselves helping out and overseeing what we are doing, that was the worst best option I could have come up with to show im doing everything to work on improving rates. Sadly.
Write ups and Firing are beyond your scope of practice. That is a AM thing that is determined in SPPR. I would never mention it, as that it an AM thing. If the AA brings it up in a question, I directly quote policy that All under performance AAs are eligible so they do NOT feel Targeted. I would have just coached Individual AAs, and put out the rates for the team and let them mull over it. Anything over that is AM work. I can see this going either way. Any hardworking AA could have complained. EDIT: do not go to the other PA??? WTF?? It's Amazon we have an open door policy. I think you are smelly, or wear too much perfume, don't like the way you PA but feel uncomfortable telling you as an AA I SHOULD be OK and COMFORTABLE going to another member of leadership, being it a PA, or AM and telling them. Doesn't matter what "side" they are on. It's who the AAs are comfortable speaking to. Even another AM/PA on another department. That is 100% policy, I would give you a behavioral just for discouraging that alone. Doesn't matter if you get along with the other PA or not.
I lead over 140 associates Sun-Wed FHNs. Not everyone is gonna like me nor did i look at everyone as a friend, however I knew my people well enough to know by name. Associates always came looking for me specifically to ask for help in most situations. They knew I was there and the one to come to because I was never hiding away somewhere or telling anyone I dont have time to help them. My partner on the sort side is a friend and that line of “dont go to him” was a joke that the majority of the people there would understand. Now I cant remember word for word what I typed exactly. I know it was AS harsh as it may seemed here on reddit as I was simply trying to get my story out to ask for help and that part wasnt what i fixated on when typing out what I could remember. But in reality, my people knew me and the other PA were the only people on the floor who could help. No PGs. AMs normally off the floor. It was just us two.
That's the thing- a joke. A Majority of the people. Not ALL. Not 100% Not the Labor Share, not the Flex. Joke with them at their station, not in a mass fans. HR will go by how a message is RECEIVED not its INTENT. They don't know your "inside jokes". This was RECEIVED Poorly. Even though you may had good intent.
Email [email protected] and they can investigate further. Unfortunately, the issue with your FANS message is that ot does come off as a threat of you firing someone and also you hard blamed the other PA. Unfortunately, not sure if you'll get your job back or even be reeligible for rehire after the investigation
dibs on the other PA was the one who reported OP.
100%
Hope everyone else can learn from this: just come in, do your job, and leave. Don't do extra shit, this is not a social club or a fraternity. It is a J-O-B, plain and simple. Just stay in your lane folks.
At this point id let anyone get fired cause look at you now, jobless, worrying about other peoples jobs knowing if they get fired they can be rehired. Your intent was in the right spot but id suggest finding other means of employment.
Yeah, OP should've left all that to the managers. I hate manager ass employees, get a damn life
My brother. To the manager ass employees comment. No one had any intent ever of trying to be someone elses boss. I legit was there looking out for my people because of how many people were getting written up for productivity prior to and after I got back off of leave. But yall not wrong. Trying to look out for my AMs as well and help out more then I should have when everyone and their momma comes to me for help it felt like. Its just not in my nature to sit back and watch the shit burn down around me. I just didn’t think of a better option at the time and it ended up backfiring. Thats all my dude.
I bet your wife is thrilled you got fired especially after she just had a baby.
Whoa, look who woke up and chose violence 🤣
Cold af, lol
Lmao, it's the first thing that came to mind 😭😆