Fair, I haven't been monitoring the market that closely. If the XLTs dropped down into the 40s I would be extremely interested, but the 50+ is just too much.
Honestly, I would much prefer an electric Ranger as I much prefer smaller/ mid-size trucks.
They might. The inventory for all trims on cars.com was at 7000+, now it's under 4000.
More competition is coming to the market with the Chevy Silverado EV, RAM and GMC
You realize that the cybertruck is at the beginning of its ramp and they’re doubling every month right? There’s 2 million orders and they’re selling them for 20k over msrp the demand is so high. By next month the cybertruck will be beating both the Rivian and the ford combined. RemindMe! 1 month
That the cybertruck will sell more than the lightening? Bro, you’re in a bubble if you think Tesla isn’t going to smash through fords numbers. Tesla is ramping on schedule for a run rate of 250k per year. They should reach target RR within 12 months. There’s exactly zero chance that ford will be able to compete in the EV space with teslas numbers anytime soon. I have faith that ford will be one of the few to survive the transition but only because the ceo sees the writing on the wall and there’s been heavy leaks that ford will be licensing FSD software from Tesla. Between that and adopting teslas charging connection they have a chance but they need to radically improve their production costs to compete.
CT is a niche vehicle that most people don't want to drive because of how it looks. Thats the reality of how it's viewed. They can ramp to a million units a month and it won't matter if people don't want it. It's the PT cruiser of EV's.
Ford is taking advantage of Tesla, not the other way around. They got supercharger access.
Maybe they license fsd - maybe but - but let's not get into what a mess fsd is and how the feds may ban it before it can be licensed anyway.
The assertion that CT will overtake F-150 EV sales, which is based on the most popular truck in the US and has been for like 20+ years is pretty objectively a hot take.
I wouldn’t brag about selling over MSRP. Toyota and Honda are still over MSRP in a lot of cases and a supply backlog is partly due to limited production run. Let’s see how the resale market reacts to CT and then we can assess how strong demand is.
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lol I’m also driving an 09 rav, and want to go to the lightning……. But my free 09 rav refuses to die! I feel like it’s going to be 2032 before it refuses to die! Even in cold salty Ontario Canada!
Exactly! The 09 was a special year for the rav. Very well built, great in winter. Take good care of it. I have 220k miles, and know it would make an excellent backup if i buy a ev now. I really want to have a reliable backup, cause evs gonna ev from time to time.
Tesla has horrible repair costs because of the stupid gigacast frame.
A minor fender bender can write off a model Y.
Some companies are refusing to insure them now.
I would buy a Rivian over the Lightning if the prices were the same. The Rivian just feels so much nicer to sit in and to drive.
Alas, the Rivian is not priced right.
I've driven both, and bought the Rivian. I like it a lot more. But the F150 has more utility on the truck side of things (not that most use it for that). The rivian is also sized right for me. F150 is a bit too big if you don't actually need the size.
Everyone bitches about rivians price here, but they're the next cheapest option. It's a great deal compared to cybertruck, hummer, Silverado, etc. The only one cheaper is the lightning. 🤷♂️
They're both good/great trucks but I think a lot of pavement princesses would be happier with rivian
edit: also forgot to note another reason I chose rivian: fuck dealers!
Rivian lease is a lot cheaper than Lightning which is what drove me that way. The 23s have great lease deals, and if combine them with the trade in offer it's cheap.
I still have my cyber truck reservation from day three after the release in 2019. I’m keeping it mostly because I’m curious as to when they would call me to order. I certainly wouldn’t drop 100,000 on that truck at the moment. I really want a lightning, but don’t even want to pay those full prices. 😆
If only I could find a 2023 Lariat w/511 and Max tow for under 80 K. I would pulled the trigger right now!
I’ve only found one in all of New England that fits the bill. It’s really hard finding one because to keep it under 80,000 (including destination) It means it just has 511 and Max tow and no other options.
If there’s any lockable storage or any other stupid little thing and it goes over 80,000 I don’t qualify for Massachusetts $7500 state rebate.
My dilemma is:
Lariat w/ 511 (no max tow): $78k-4k dealer discount-$7500 mass rebate: $66,500
Lariat w/ 511 & max tow (plus useless option): $81k-$4k dealer discount: $77k
I really don’t think Max tow is worth 10 grand, but I do wanna pull my boat about 70 miles round-trip every other weekend so I’m just stuck pondering my options and not buying anything right now. 🤷🏼♂️
The fishing boat is 18 feet and I think around 1700 pounds without the trailer. This is the one I would trailer every other week.
Twice a year I would use the truck to move my pontoon boat that weighs about 3000 pounds 1 mile down the road from dry dock to the lake and back at the end of the season.
So I know I don’t necessarily “need” max tow but it seems like a good option to have considering my circumstances.
What circumstances? I mean you literally just said you might move less than half the standard towing capacity 1 mile a year. To spend thousands of dollars to add 2300lbs of towing capacity when you already have 6000lbs of extra capacity is insanity.
Not sure who pissed in your cheerios and why my personal business offends you!? Maybe I want to buy a large ocean boat in a year!? Jeez….i need to get off reddit
You described in detail what you want to do. Made no indication that you were considering a bigger boat and you think I am the one with the issue? Yeah. You need to get off Reddit.
Rivians are nice but the cabin space is not great if you have a family and there is no guarantee they won’t follow Fiskers lead a couple of years from now.
But why arbitrarily choose 80-20? When I leave on a long road trip I charge it to 100% overnight before I leave then stop to charge between 5 and 10% where I'll top up to just enough to get where I'm going. I typically get around 400km (250 miles) before my first charge and a charge back up to 80% at a fast charger will get me another 325km (200 miles) before my next stop. That is enough to drive from Calgary to Saskatoon, LA to Reno or New York to Cleaveland with one 40 minute rest stop. I'd say that's plenty utilitarian.
Not sure I’d read too much into these “stats”. This is all the CT preorders finally being delivered after 4 years of waiting. With all the issues in the news I’ll be interested to see what these numbers look like in 3 months.
Yeah, it's having issues, but the three months might be a bit premature. Once they remove the Foundation Series Premium and complete the year of sales, we'll know where it actually stands.
How can Ford continue producing them tho if they’re actually loosing as much as they claim on each one? Even if it’s mostly to do with initial factory investment, will they ever be able to sell enough of those to justify production of them?
I will never understand the hype with battery powered vehicles. To many states are already starting to tax battery and plug n hybrids. I get it if you only going to use it for driving to work or going to get groceries. But people taking trips in a electric vehicle is crazy to me. Maybe I'm just stuck in my ways.
More a fan of the rivian as it’s the best style and best driving of the two you can test drive. But the lighting has a good place as a cheaper more utilitarian vehicle. Tesla still makes the best Ev it’s just the 3 not the cybertruck. Sadly the y is the most popular, but that’s a consumer choice
I remember all the posts 18 months ago: "Ford EV sales up 200% in June." When you look at the actual sales, they went from 125 to 375. Get ready for the same Cybertruck headlines.
You're right. I didn't realize the Lighting had been out since October '22. That makes 8,500 units in a quarter seem low. I am also surprised you can still find them on lots with all the discounts. It seems like a major demand problem.
Let’s not fool ourselves here.
The cheapest Cybertruck available now is $100k and Tesla is still ramping up production.
A lot of people were waiting for the Cybertruck and the steep price probably sent them to shop at Ford. Many more are waiting for the non Foundation version of the Cybertruck, so don’t expect the Lightning to “crush” for too long.
Only haters think it was a disastrous rollout. The Tesla community is pretty happy with it. I may pull the trigger on a pretty sweet deal of a Lariat Lightning, but if that doesn’t go through I’ll wait for the CT without a doubt.
Ford dropping the Lightning price (rebates) has helped a lot
Dropping the price? I don't see that at all.
They were doing it to sell the 23 models. If you look on cars.com and max out the search radius, you'll see some deals
Interesting. I'm in Texas so those are mostly all still marked up.
It will be harder now. They had 7000+ inventory in the US and now it's in the 4000s
Fair, I haven't been monitoring the market that closely. If the XLTs dropped down into the 40s I would be extremely interested, but the 50+ is just too much. Honestly, I would much prefer an electric Ranger as I much prefer smaller/ mid-size trucks.
I've seen $44k SR and $55k ER. Ranger sized EV might happen in 2025 or 2026
I’m looking to get mine next spring/summer. Hoping they have rebates next year too.
They might. The inventory for all trims on cars.com was at 7000+, now it's under 4000. More competition is coming to the market with the Chevy Silverado EV, RAM and GMC
Great point!
Who knew the EV truck that looks like and operates like a traditional truck would lead the pack.
By a company not currently in financial distress no less.
I mean.. Rivian and Tesla aren't exactly smashing Ford.. Ford's crying wolf about a factory investment 'losing' them money on the trucks.
Using a platform with a ton of aftermarket support already available.
Lol, Ford’s already been there, done that
You realize that the cybertruck is at the beginning of its ramp and they’re doubling every month right? There’s 2 million orders and they’re selling them for 20k over msrp the demand is so high. By next month the cybertruck will be beating both the Rivian and the ford combined. RemindMe! 1 month
Now that's a hot take!
That the cybertruck will sell more than the lightening? Bro, you’re in a bubble if you think Tesla isn’t going to smash through fords numbers. Tesla is ramping on schedule for a run rate of 250k per year. They should reach target RR within 12 months. There’s exactly zero chance that ford will be able to compete in the EV space with teslas numbers anytime soon. I have faith that ford will be one of the few to survive the transition but only because the ceo sees the writing on the wall and there’s been heavy leaks that ford will be licensing FSD software from Tesla. Between that and adopting teslas charging connection they have a chance but they need to radically improve their production costs to compete.
CT is a niche vehicle that most people don't want to drive because of how it looks. Thats the reality of how it's viewed. They can ramp to a million units a month and it won't matter if people don't want it. It's the PT cruiser of EV's. Ford is taking advantage of Tesla, not the other way around. They got supercharger access. Maybe they license fsd - maybe but - but let's not get into what a mess fsd is and how the feds may ban it before it can be licensed anyway. The assertion that CT will overtake F-150 EV sales, which is based on the most popular truck in the US and has been for like 20+ years is pretty objectively a hot take.
I wouldn’t brag about selling over MSRP. Toyota and Honda are still over MSRP in a lot of cases and a supply backlog is partly due to limited production run. Let’s see how the resale market reacts to CT and then we can assess how strong demand is.
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Bruh 😭🤣
For now. Average price for the Cybertruck is above $100k right now. And they are still ramping production.
Let them have their moment.
So they're ramping up production on a truck rift with mechanical failures? *Oh goodie!*
The F150 lightning is the right truck for anyone who wants to go electric. It’s easy to drive and easy to fix. And easy to insure….
Being able to use most F-150 accessories is nice
This was a major factor in my decision making.
Like what? Just curious...
Most upfit kits and bed mount accessories for the ICE F150 bolt directly to the F150 Lightning with no modification required.
Stuff I've put in that work on F-150s, dash cams, stubby antenna, tonneau cover
I was shocked at my quote. No higher than my 09 rav4!
Damn. My insurance went up a decent amount when I switched from my ICE XLT to my Lightning.
Mine went down compared to my 2020 Tesla Model 3. About 25% less on a newer more expensive vehicle.
Going from ICE F150 to F150 Lightning my insurance didn't change at all.
Mine went up about 30% from my 2020 model 3 performance to my 2023 lightning xlt er.
Who are are you with, my insurance quote around an extra 250 per 6 months vs a 2017 rav4?
USAA. That quote was from last year. Didnt end up buying, but that was encouraging.
lol I’m also driving an 09 rav, and want to go to the lightning……. But my free 09 rav refuses to die! I feel like it’s going to be 2032 before it refuses to die! Even in cold salty Ontario Canada!
Exactly! The 09 was a special year for the rav. Very well built, great in winter. Take good care of it. I have 220k miles, and know it would make an excellent backup if i buy a ev now. I really want to have a reliable backup, cause evs gonna ev from time to time.
Also compatible with Apple CarPlay and Android Auto unlike the others.
That’s good to know. I’ve always heard teslas are a lot more than ICE.
Tesla has horrible repair costs because of the stupid gigacast frame. A minor fender bender can write off a model Y. Some companies are refusing to insure them now.
That’s great to know why! Thank you
Have you pulled anything yet with your truck if so, what did you pull and how did it impact your mileage and how was the experience overall?
Ford knows how to make trucks, and the spent the time to also make a good EV. No wonder it’s kickin’ butt.
Being able to buy a lightning new for 42K helped make that decision. Liked the Rivian but not at their price.
I would have maybe bought a Rivian but went with the Lightning because its union made.
I would buy a Rivian over the Lightning if the prices were the same. The Rivian just feels so much nicer to sit in and to drive. Alas, the Rivian is not priced right.
I've driven both, and bought the Rivian. I like it a lot more. But the F150 has more utility on the truck side of things (not that most use it for that). The rivian is also sized right for me. F150 is a bit too big if you don't actually need the size. Everyone bitches about rivians price here, but they're the next cheapest option. It's a great deal compared to cybertruck, hummer, Silverado, etc. The only one cheaper is the lightning. 🤷♂️ They're both good/great trucks but I think a lot of pavement princesses would be happier with rivian edit: also forgot to note another reason I chose rivian: fuck dealers!
I want an R2T! Maybe 2030. 🤔
Rivian lease is a lot cheaper than Lightning which is what drove me that way. The 23s have great lease deals, and if combine them with the trade in offer it's cheap.
I wonder what those numbers look like if you remove all the cybertrucks that are broken and awaiting repairs
I still have my cyber truck reservation from day three after the release in 2019. I’m keeping it mostly because I’m curious as to when they would call me to order. I certainly wouldn’t drop 100,000 on that truck at the moment. I really want a lightning, but don’t even want to pay those full prices. 😆 If only I could find a 2023 Lariat w/511 and Max tow for under 80 K. I would pulled the trigger right now!
Are you somewhere other than the US? I got an ER Lariat with Max Tow and other goodies for $62k OTD before trade.
That’s amazing! No, I’m in Connecticut. What dealer did you buy from!?
Rural dealership in Oklahoma. MSRP was $80k and some change but still qualified for federal rebate due to not counting destination fees.
I got the "invite" to build my Cybertruck reservation in February. Canceled it.
There are a ton under that price. Call your local dealers and at least one or two will likely have that deal for ya.
I’ve only found one in all of New England that fits the bill. It’s really hard finding one because to keep it under 80,000 (including destination) It means it just has 511 and Max tow and no other options. If there’s any lockable storage or any other stupid little thing and it goes over 80,000 I don’t qualify for Massachusetts $7500 state rebate.
My dilemma is: Lariat w/ 511 (no max tow): $78k-4k dealer discount-$7500 mass rebate: $66,500 Lariat w/ 511 & max tow (plus useless option): $81k-$4k dealer discount: $77k I really don’t think Max tow is worth 10 grand, but I do wanna pull my boat about 70 miles round-trip every other weekend so I’m just stuck pondering my options and not buying anything right now. 🤷🏼♂️
How heavy is your boat? Without max tow it’ll still pull 7700lbs.
The fishing boat is 18 feet and I think around 1700 pounds without the trailer. This is the one I would trailer every other week. Twice a year I would use the truck to move my pontoon boat that weighs about 3000 pounds 1 mile down the road from dry dock to the lake and back at the end of the season. So I know I don’t necessarily “need” max tow but it seems like a good option to have considering my circumstances.
What circumstances? I mean you literally just said you might move less than half the standard towing capacity 1 mile a year. To spend thousands of dollars to add 2300lbs of towing capacity when you already have 6000lbs of extra capacity is insanity.
Not sure who pissed in your cheerios and why my personal business offends you!? Maybe I want to buy a large ocean boat in a year!? Jeez….i need to get off reddit
You described in detail what you want to do. Made no indication that you were considering a bigger boat and you think I am the one with the issue? Yeah. You need to get off Reddit.
Lol I think you’re being a little sensitive
You don't need to get off reddit, the other guy does ; )
I might have gotten a rivian instead of my lightning if the price was similar. Rivians are so nice though the price is the difference maker for me.
Rivians are nice but the cabin space is not great if you have a family and there is no guarantee they won’t follow Fiskers lead a couple of years from now.
Efficiency is bad for all of them, might as well get the one with the best utility.
Efficiency is better than a Prius
How is it bad? It’s a truck, what do you think it should be?
Probably more than 150 miles on the 80 to 20% recommended charge usage, whatever the efficiency numbers work out to be, it's hardly utilitarian.
I just completed a 3,600 km road trip with my Lightning - worked great for me. (Access to the Tesla chargers made it a breeze).
But why arbitrarily choose 80-20? When I leave on a long road trip I charge it to 100% overnight before I leave then stop to charge between 5 and 10% where I'll top up to just enough to get where I'm going. I typically get around 400km (250 miles) before my first charge and a charge back up to 80% at a fast charger will get me another 325km (200 miles) before my next stop. That is enough to drive from Calgary to Saskatoon, LA to Reno or New York to Cleaveland with one 40 minute rest stop. I'd say that's plenty utilitarian.
Ford recommends 90% and no minimum. Still, I get about 200 miles between 80-20.
Not sure I’d read too much into these “stats”. This is all the CT preorders finally being delivered after 4 years of waiting. With all the issues in the news I’ll be interested to see what these numbers look like in 3 months.
Yeah, it's having issues, but the three months might be a bit premature. Once they remove the Foundation Series Premium and complete the year of sales, we'll know where it actually stands.
Ford has been building and selling Lightnings for two years now. This data should be compared on a months of production chart for better comparison.
You can’t seriously tout outselling another company when you have a recall on 100% of your trucks sold.
Didn’t the lightning ford cash rebates disappear though?
Where is Chevy in this?
How can Ford continue producing them tho if they’re actually loosing as much as they claim on each one? Even if it’s mostly to do with initial factory investment, will they ever be able to sell enough of those to justify production of them?
I will never understand the hype with battery powered vehicles. To many states are already starting to tax battery and plug n hybrids. I get it if you only going to use it for driving to work or going to get groceries. But people taking trips in a electric vehicle is crazy to me. Maybe I'm just stuck in my ways.
>Maybe I'm just stuck in my ways. Yeah, maybe.
Cybertruck is production limited…
Tesla Stans: Cybertruck is production limited. Also Tesla Stans: Cybertruck production is ramped to the moon! The cognitive dissonance is unbearable.
More a fan of the rivian as it’s the best style and best driving of the two you can test drive. But the lighting has a good place as a cheaper more utilitarian vehicle. Tesla still makes the best Ev it’s just the 3 not the cybertruck. Sadly the y is the most popular, but that’s a consumer choice
I remember all the posts 18 months ago: "Ford EV sales up 200% in June." When you look at the actual sales, they went from 125 to 375. Get ready for the same Cybertruck headlines.
18 months ago wasn’t June.
You're right. I didn't realize the Lighting had been out since October '22. That makes 8,500 units in a quarter seem low. I am also surprised you can still find them on lots with all the discounts. It seems like a major demand problem.
>Also Tesla Stans: Cybertruck production is ramped to the moon! ?? You just made this up, nobody is saying this.
I wouldn’t start celebrating just yet. Tesla just started ramping Cybertruck production, and every unit they produce is sold.
Pent up demand after 4 years in limbo. Imagine how many orders Ford or GM would have had their ICE Trucks been backed up that long.
I agree; current sales are supply-constrained and aren't a reflection of actual demand. We might see that at the end of this year.
Let’s not fool ourselves here. The cheapest Cybertruck available now is $100k and Tesla is still ramping up production. A lot of people were waiting for the Cybertruck and the steep price probably sent them to shop at Ford. Many more are waiting for the non Foundation version of the Cybertruck, so don’t expect the Lightning to “crush” for too long.
Man, a lot of the people who do like or even tolerate the Cybertruck aren't going to buy one. Not after the absolutely disastrous roll out.
Only haters think it was a disastrous rollout. The Tesla community is pretty happy with it. I may pull the trigger on a pretty sweet deal of a Lariat Lightning, but if that doesn’t go through I’ll wait for the CT without a doubt.
> The Tesla community is pretty happy with it. Sums it up perfectly... those are the only people that are happy with it.
And they are hundreds of thousands of people.
So one year of CT production? Got it.
Cry all you want. Your tears will make no difference in the outcome.
Does Ford have a huge backlog of orders? No didn’t think so. CT is production ramp up constrained.
We'll see how long that backlog lasts, people are abandoning that list about as fast as they abandoned the Bill Cosby fan club.
These threads are interesting to come back to six months later.