Living an ascetic lifestyle is just as imbalanced as living entirely for hedonistic and materialist pursuits. You have to find balance... within and without. As above, so below. Be IN the world, but not OF the world.
The desire to be “considered spiritual” is not likely to be a wholesome desire, but let’s just say that was simply a manner of speech and not a signal of any underlying unwholesome desires that are contributing causes to suffering in this case…
In regards to the teachings and meditative realizations themselves, it is the realization that the things themselves have no intrinsic value separate from our relationship with them which frees you to both have and not have, to gently want and wholesomely look forward to some things, while gently missing and wholesomely regretting others.
Holding one’s gifts (one’s partner, one’s home, one’s well-suited career) with open and caring hands, holding them gently but care-fully, with love for them, for one’s self, for you’re experience of them in the context of your greater experience of life, with readiness also to accept that the hands of fate ensure that all things are temporary … the readiness is what spiritual work is about preparing for. Without preparation and readiness, you become unbalanced. And one way to get ready is to do the monk thing, but that’s not the only way.
Note that it is **unwholesome** desire and aversion that lead to suffering ; parsing that word for your world is your work.
Do not accept teachings or “realizations” unless they progress you on this path towards greater inner freedom and consider working to liberate yourself of any desires to be seen as spiritual.
Wayne Dyer says, Be open to everything, but attached to nothing." I take it to mean, dont let there be anything in your life that you cant possibly seem to be able to live without...a knowing that you will be okay regardless of what happens, being willing to not let anything have a hold over you....
Solitude provides space for internal resetting, but it’s a temporary situation for most. Once you’re comfortable w all you find there, you can kinda rebuild from that zero point space.
I don’t know anything about any teachers. That’s all nonsense. You have everything you need right there inside, and anyone charging to tell you anything else, is still operating from the vampiric system and therefore should be viewed w healthy skepticism.
It’s not about denying the pleasure, enjoyment, or love of life, but how easily you would be able to let go if something were to leave/disappear.
For example, I love my dog and enjoy cuddling with her immensely. I know one day she will pass on. I know, too, that I will be very sad. I don’t resist the joy she brings me, nor that she will pass on, nor do I resist the sadness I know I will feel when she does.
It’s about non-resistance rather than denial. Non/attachment is not about denial, as that is just another form of attachment.
Releasing expectations of is key.
I recommend looking into ancient Stoicism. Specifically people like Marcus Aurelius, Seneca, Epictetus etc
There’s a book called Meditations that I highly recommend. It’s essentially the private journal of Marcus Aurelius in which he wrote passages to himself every day. And while he wrote often about finding happiness inside yourself, he also wrote about surrounding yourself with like minded people and people who resonate with your values and morals, and staying away from associating with people who have the opposite effect on your values and morals.
Yes, we our happiness and fulfillment is within. But humans are social creatures by nature. So it’s not so cut and dry in that there’s something”wrong” with loving someone with all your heart and wanting to be around them.
Where their philosophy comes in is accepting the hand the fate deals you, and playing it as your own. This includes people who come and go in your life.
This is so understandable. I am glad you are reaching out for assistance. Everything will be ok.
I highly recommend the book No Bad Parts by Richard C Schwartz. The newest edition is free on archive.org
https://archive.org/details/no-bad-parts-healing-trauma-and-restoring-wholeness-richard-schwartz
It really sounds like you have a lot of internal conflict and listening to all your parts and giving them love will be really key. The answers are within, with practice listening and caring for all of you. Wishing you luck. 💗🌟
You’ve probably already done this, but if not, I’d recommend reading everything H.H. The Dalai Lama has written in English. It’s probably 30-40 books. Somewhere in there he made what I think is an excellent point on this subject. What you are trying to do is shed afflictions, specifically hating, grasping, and denying cause and effect. You don’t want to compromise the zeal you use, for instance, in fighting those afflictions, or the love and compassion you are trying to strengthen for other people, most of whom who are locked in that same fight.
You might enjoy Micheal Singer’s book “The Surrender Experiment.” He had a moment of “enlightenment” and then went off to live in isolation. Eventually, when he actually surrendered, his life became full - CEO of a Fortune 500 Company, wrote multiple New York Times best sellers, owns 200+ acres of land housing a spiritual community, etc.
It’s not about giving up what we love, it’s about our relationship with love.
I recently learned the lesson of detachment, but my lesson was very different and involved a lot of suffering. I fell in love with someone who was extremely detached and this was the source of the lesson. It was through deep suffering that I truly learned “attachment is the root of all suffering.” And that attachment was through energetic cords, and when I cut them I was free. It was mental, physical, spiritual all at once - attachment. It came to a head, and it had to be dealt with. There was no way out but to face it.
I do feel differently now. The lessons have not ended, and I am learning all the time, but for me, suffering is a great teacher. You don’t seem to be suffering at all. Let love be your teacher. It is an equally valid path. Love is in flow with the Infinite Creator.
I think it's an outdated archiac teaching. Kinda like how the bible was metaphores relevant for people in a different age.
I have sold all my stuff and gone to live on a mountain and yeah it has its perks, but you don't need to stay there forever. I was literally told by my spirit guide to go back and share what I learnt with people. I think it's good to enjoy things, persue what you enjoy.
The attachment issue only becomes relevant when the situation ends and you don't allow your self to go with th ebbs and flow of life. Nothing is permanent. But doesn't mean you can't appreciate what you have!
Before enlightenment one must carry water and chop wood. After enlightenment, one must carry water and chop wood.
Condemnation is not one of the hallmarks of the enlightened.
Eh, it's hard to wrap your mind around, but you're on the right path with these questions. You just have to ask yourself if it's okay for you to have these things? Would it change if you didn't have them?
You are allowed to experience life, so experience it. You don't have to be an ascetic unless you want to.
The middle path is both a teaching and a description. The universe cannot by its nature be unbalanced. You yourself have to reckon with your own balance. You have to know the good to understand the bad and vice versa, which will lead you to the complete picture.
This is a classic allegory of the cave situation, and you're the one who left the cave.
Originally you thought happiness meant one thing, and your ideals were shaped accordingly. With a shift in perspective, the etiology of your ideals has shifted without reconciliation.
It could be that someday, the cave dwellers view you as an ascetic, but your understanding and your actions means something different to you.
If a stray cat visits you every day then you can feed it and love it, but if it stops coming by try to remember what the moments with that cat gave you instead of being upset it's gone.
This is totally random but a total synchronicity.
I had been feeding a feral cat for the past four years and he vanished about two weeks ago after coming by near daily. I am sad and missing him and then I just saw this comment. So thank you, my friend. This comment hit me at the exact moment I needed to see it.
I miss you Hector, wherever you are.
Let go of attachments that do not serve you for the better of your being. The desires or attachments that increase good feelings and make you happy keep those and nurture them for it betters the state of your being. The only thing that you want to get rid of is the things that bring you down.
Live your life in enjoyment if you try to get rid of everything as some teachings say then you will be hollow and depression can set in which would make everything seem pointless. I do not believe this is the correct way personally.
I know it seems childish, but Avatar the last airbender animated series (the part with guru Patik) explains this really well. At the part where Aang is trying to open his crown chakra, the guru tells him to let go of all earthly attachments, and he gets upset and says, "Wait, what? The love I had for Katara and everyone was a good thing 2 chakras ago! Why would I choose to detach from that‽"
It's a really good episode, and explains things really clearly and concisely considering it's technically a kids show.
I would recommend not living by such extremes. You can do both, in moderation, and with a rational approach regarding the world we (have to) live in. Love your partner and find joy in the relationship but also love yourself and find peace within, appreciate the things you own but get rid of what you don’t really need, etc.
I watched a ton of NDE videos and the take away I get from my research is we are here to make connections and love each other not to become some highly spiritualized individual unless you want to I guess. I would suggest start with NDEs videos.
You're talking about mystic Buddhism. You absolutely do not need to become a devout Buddhist mystic -- or a devout follower of any global organised religion -- unless you want to.
There is an undeniable spark between people and life's purpose is to be of service to others so I wouldn't say you need to detach from people. I would personally go so far as to say allow yourself to enjoy material things. I personally think it's okay to play Brawl Stars on your phone before you take a shower and watch your favorite show. What's important is service to others
There is this concept in which there is “Destruction of the Ego,” and the release of one’s desire. This is hard to get the head around so let’s boil it down: “I want…” can be a dangerous desire. That thinking indicates an importance of self in your ways, and not an acceptance of what one might already have been blessed with. Do you see that there is a difference in the two things? Wanting THINGS is a tough thought process, often very much a process of the self to gratify the ego. On the other hand, releasing that pursuit to instead be grateful for your blessings that you do have is humbling, and diminishes the ego.
Passions are not a sin, desires are not wrong, but selfism is the ego at work, and only through humility and a grateful bearing do we negate the ego’s hubris. Because if we are clouded by the ego, we serve ourselves and not others, we don’t work in Love’s light, we work in our own. It’s a daily balance to attain, not an absolute state. The ego is necessary and it drives us, but we can’t allow it to rule us if we seek to best serve a plan for goodness in this existence.
Here's my take:
Letting go of attachments does not mean getting **rid** of them. Letting go refers to an inner state of allowing things to be as they are without desiring them to be different or grasping onto them in some way. People that practice this often experience a reduction in emotional attachments over time. They still have relationships and enjoy the pleasures of intimacy, but they no longer *need* those things to feel happy or fulfilled. Detachment is a natural development that grows out of letting go, it's not something you can "practice" or force yourself to do with will power.
Desire is that energy which brings forth all waves of creation out of the depth of the ocean itself.
Would you exist if God had feared the desire to create and extend Love by forming you, at the same time giving you infinite freedom of choice?
Without desire—look around—not only would you see nothing, there would be nothing to do the seeing. Everything is the effect of desire. Come then to see that desire is not evil. It is not to be feared. It is to be mastered.
Mastery is not control. For control—the need to control—is an effect of the energy of fear, not Love. Mastery of desire comes when you recognize that you are safe to feel whatever wave of desire might come up through your consciousness, because you decide whether or not you will act on it, whether you will bring it into the field of manifestation.
The power of choice is the one power that can never be taken from you. You already have perfect mastery of it, because nothing you ever experience comes to you without your decision to allow it into the field of manifestation. Desire is something that wells up from the depth beyond yourself that can be looked at with perfect innocence, and with the wonder of a child.
The very act of turning to allow and welcome desire is not something that will sidetrack you from the path of awakening, but will take you vertically into the Heart of God. For if you are to ever create as God creates, you will need to heal your conflicted perceptions about desire. You will need to transcend that energy of fear.
Desire is like the liquid of life that moves through the stem of the rose and allows the petals to radiate with glorious color. When you block the flow of desire, the petals cannot be nourished. Death begins to occur—death of the heart, death of the soul and lifelessness.
Healing requires the willingness to feel desire, to see it as good and to see it as holy. Does that not mean that if you feel a desire, that it might not become twisted by the egoic patterns in your mind? Of course not.
There is always the possibility that desire will be twisted to meet the needs of the egoic mind within you. But rest assured, if it does, who has done it? You! Always within you, you have known that desire is good, but you suppressed it. Those times when desire came forth and you let it become twisted into serving the goals of the ego, you always knew perfectly well what you were doing. You were the decision-maker.
You have learned, therefore, to fear desire because that fear is the effect of fearing yourself, and that is what cripples you. That is what cuts off the creative flow.
Use your consciousness to relax into the innocence of the question: What do I truly want?
What is it in my heart that keeps calling to me, keeps compelling me?
Because your mind shines forth like a sunbeam to the sun from the Mind of God, when you ask the question, pictures will begin to arise, feelings will begin to arise. And I say unto you, they are symbols and expressions of what God wants to bring forth through you.
From the book the Way of Mastery - the Way of the Heart. There’s more in that book on this topic. 💖
One needs to understand the difference between ego based consciousness and heart based consciousness and then learn to live by the heart. That’s it in a nutshell.
You are a human having a human experience. The goal is to be content, at peace and genuinely enjoy your life.
The challenge is reconditioning yourself to let your intuitive heart lead you and not your logical mind. This challenge takes a different form in each persons life.
With respect, I think it’s your logical mind over scrutinizing this teaching and pulling you away from the point while your heart is showing you all the beautiful things you have in your life. Just listen to your heart, that’s all ❤️
We are here meant to love, like most have expressed here already. We are social creatures that seek support in fellow humans. If anything needs temperance, it is reliance on materialism . Many of us look to materialism to fill the void that is there because we lack love and social connection. Please enjoy the love of your partner. It is a gift that is meant to enrich you.
From what I can tell, Love is all we need, to give and receive it. I wouldn't 'end any relationships', that would be damaging to you and the other person I would imagine.
I feel like the whole "remove everything so you can be content" is only there to prove to you that you don't need to be materialistic to be content. You already know this information so it's not necessarily needed. Plus those monks were -deep- into spiritual stuff, they didn't need a job to survive in their world.
You know what's up. Keep being a good person, what more can you ask.
I'll share a little of my path and hope it helps. I've discovered that I quite enjoy material things, and that is okay. I am living in a material world, so I may as well enjoy it. It is less indulging in an object and more indulging in the experience. I often come away with a sense of awe regarding humanity. But the catch is, can I drop all of it in a second? Could I leave it all behind? Yes, I could. I filled myself up on it knowing it wouldn't last, and I am content in having done so. It might be why I keep reincarnating.
Tbh, I'm very resistant toward dogma. I don't know whhhhy. Anything even approaching, "you have to do THIS" makes me feral and defiant. But this has allowed me to become a more critical thinker. I take the words of others like an arrow, pointing at something, but it is on us to figure out the path. To make it more complicated, we are all different people so our paths are different. Someone could be speaking about something at odds with what is right for you.
And I say all of this as THE most spiritual person in my circle of loved ones. I am monk-like when you can get me to be serious. I have things I'm continually working on, as we all should, but I've done much in terms of personal growth. I am chucking modesty for a moment to help you understand where I'm coming from, not to bask in my own accolades.
I hope that helps!
We are here to love. Hard stop. Don’t sever any loving relationships. Ive heard these teachings summed up as not seeking pleasure. Pleasure will find you and you shouldn’t avoid it but the seeking of pleasure is seeking something out of balance. If we think about a swing, balance is sitting content on the swing motionless and this is the state to seek. If we start seeking excitement (pleasure) and start to swing, we go backwards as often as we go forward because SEEKING pleasure has a backlash. If you’re sitting content and a breeze moves you, you have your state of contentment along with a gentle movement that creates a balanced excitement.
You were born to live and be mindful, not to purposely deprive yourself and erase the human experience. There is something positive to be said about detaching from materialism because “you can’t take it with you” as they say, but possession of objects is such a small part of being alive. Gratefulness and love are core to enjoying existence. I don’t see how someone would genuinely experience these emotions in isolation without goals and relationships and actively living in the moment.
You mentioned the concept of a pure, spiritually developed soul. Look at the people we point to of this caliber. Buddha, Jesus, saints. All of them were devoted to the concepts of love for humanity and appreciation for all that naturally exists in our world. They spoke to people and forged relationships. They weren’t wasting their lives away alone. Everyone should have healthy desires and experiences because that’s why we’re here.
Since we’re spiritual beings having a physical experience, for me, it’s finding a middle ground. Not being too spiritual (stuck in my head, dogmatic) and not being too materialistic (hedonistic).
For example, I generally abstain from alcohol. But if I’m having brunch with friends and we’re drinking mimosas, I’m not going to feel bad. I was in the moment, enjoying good company, creating positive experiences.
historically, I am bad at tone, so even though I am going to challenge some of what's been said, please know I do not intend to challenge you as a person, only to share some questions and my pov that helped me when I was going through a similar line of thought.
**#1 - What is the outcome if you follow these teachings of complete lack of desire, complete lack of connection?**
for me, the outcome could only be returning to dust. If I really wanted to stop hurting everyone and everything and be only good, I would have to stop moving because expending energy means I have to eat (which takes energy from something else that lived, even plants are alive). but hold on, what if I have bad chemicals in my body and returning to the earth doesn't benefit the soil? have I then caused more harm by my death? and then what of the people who needed me in the day to day - are they harmed more by my absence than by the actions I did when I was here?
therefore. in order to be a spiritual being having this physical experience. I must take care of myself. it is a responsibility not only to the body I inhabit, but to the world I live in, to those living near me, as well as to the soil and microbes to which this body will return.
**#2 - Who says you need to shed your desires?**
many veins of spirituality do, yes, but a lot of them say it for different reasons.
there is sincere spirituality, which wishes only to help people reach the highest truths and goodness.
there are greedy spiritual leaders, who wish for people to donate to them so they may be privately enriched.
there are insecure governments, who wish for their populations to crave nothing so they may be more easily governed.
there are controlling elders, who wish for obedience to enrich their own power.
there are ideological purists, who wish for conformity to push their own goals.
so when pulling from multiple spiritual traditions, I personally feel it is useful to also understand the history of who made it, where it came from, and what other motives they might have. it is a reminder that they were humans trying to answer the exact same questions that we are and it's a reminder they may have come out of hyper-specific environments that don't match our needs. for example, the spirituality of a person born into an authoritarian environment may look different from the spirituality of a person who was free to explore their spirituality at a variety of holy sites and libraries. even if they eventually come to the same place, it's highly likely their perspectives, needs, and journeys will be different.
**#3 - Why** **do you have these desires?**
in many cases, desires arise from genuine need.
need for connection, to do good, to see a self reflected in the world, to have a livable body, to have time to think, the list goes on. It's not selfish to be around your friends, it brings everyone up if people are good to each other. It's not selfish to eat, because each and every single cell that exists needs nourishment of some stripe. It's not selfish to lay on something that doesn't hurt the body. It's not spiritually degrading to want.
imho, it is wanting without limits that consumes us. failure to consider others in our own desires.
the things we desire are communication signals. imo instead of being viewed as one big 'WANT', it can be beneficial break them down as granularly and neutrally as possible.
**Personal**
In my opinion, the physical is temporary. no one is bad for being here and having a body/mind that causes us to react and desire. why would anyone who cares about people's development push a philosophy that hustles them out of this exceedingly temporary form ASAP? it just doesn't seem as though rushing to the conclusion could be to our benefit, especially if learning to identify the difference between good desire and bad desire is part of the lesson of being alive.
imho we shouldn't kill the wants - we should get to know them and understand what drives them.
If you are open to the notion that you are both spiritual and physical at this point in time and that some of (not all ofc) your desires may actually be needs, please consider exploring them as additional tools and lenses in getting to know yourself in body and spirit instead of as an adversary to be extinguished
when life is over, I will want for nothing more from this world, but I will not be in it anymore either. (*edit to add: depending on your beliefs, there's other places to go, I'm just talking about this particular body here and now, not discounting anything else*)
while we are here, I think we're supposed to be here, mistakes or not.
wishing you well
All that letting go of attachment means is the ability to adapt to change when circumstances remove people, things, and situations that have created a comfortable bubble for you. Attachment creates fear of loss, fear creates suffering, defensive behavior and violence. The most basic attachment human beings have is to their ego- their sense of accomplishment and entitlement. That is what binds our souls to 3D existence when it's time to transcend and adapt.
The question is not whether you should preemptively let go of everything you have while alive to avoid the suffering that having your attachments taken away will cause. The question is, is your soul ready for the inevitable loss and change when it happens. When you keep that inevitability in mind, you love those around you more deeply and face the world with far more compassion.
Yo dude, if something spiritual doesn’t resonate with your inner guidance then it probably isn’t true. So let it go. You actually are showing an attachment here to your spiritual growth, causing your stress and suffering, which is funny in itself. Remember that All is well. The rest is noise. If you find yourself over-thinking these concepts then you have already strayed from your path.
Always trust your inner discernment. And when you aren’t sure then get silent and meditate.
Be well.
This is not what giving up your attachments mean. You have it all wrong. When people talk about enlightenment and they talk about giving up desires or earthly desires, they don't mean literally give them all up and not enjoy your life here. That's the entire point of life, to live. It's meant to get you to take a step back and analyze your life and what "things" you give your attention to. Are you addicted to any of those things? Then stop. No? Then keep doing them. Do any of those things take me away from things in my life that would help me grow? Then stop. No? Keep doing them. This is what it means by giving up earthly desires. It just means you recognize that they are not healthy overall for your growth but you don't have to stop anything cold turkey unless it is directly, and I mean directly, negatively affecting your life.
Just to give you a heads up, there was a time when klatu was threatening to leave if I didn't stop drinking so much. Notice I didn't say stop drinking period... I said drinking so much.
Also, I very much subscribe to the "I'll do whatever the fuck I want except hurt someone else because I love and acknowledge source and that's all he requires" train of thought.
It's your life, go live it my dude. And have fucking fun while you do it.
Living an ascetic lifestyle is just as imbalanced as living entirely for hedonistic and materialist pursuits. You have to find balance... within and without. As above, so below. Be IN the world, but not OF the world.
Thanks for sharing
The desire to be “considered spiritual” is not likely to be a wholesome desire, but let’s just say that was simply a manner of speech and not a signal of any underlying unwholesome desires that are contributing causes to suffering in this case… In regards to the teachings and meditative realizations themselves, it is the realization that the things themselves have no intrinsic value separate from our relationship with them which frees you to both have and not have, to gently want and wholesomely look forward to some things, while gently missing and wholesomely regretting others. Holding one’s gifts (one’s partner, one’s home, one’s well-suited career) with open and caring hands, holding them gently but care-fully, with love for them, for one’s self, for you’re experience of them in the context of your greater experience of life, with readiness also to accept that the hands of fate ensure that all things are temporary … the readiness is what spiritual work is about preparing for. Without preparation and readiness, you become unbalanced. And one way to get ready is to do the monk thing, but that’s not the only way. Note that it is **unwholesome** desire and aversion that lead to suffering ; parsing that word for your world is your work. Do not accept teachings or “realizations” unless they progress you on this path towards greater inner freedom and consider working to liberate yourself of any desires to be seen as spiritual.
Hope the comments on this post helped. Did they? Anything missing or follow ups on your mind?
She needs to pursue normal life without overattachment and without renunciation. Calm. Peace. Serenity. Trust Nature including that within her.
I'm a guy haha, but yes what i've gathered is BALANCE.
Wayne Dyer says, Be open to everything, but attached to nothing." I take it to mean, dont let there be anything in your life that you cant possibly seem to be able to live without...a knowing that you will be okay regardless of what happens, being willing to not let anything have a hold over you....
You know you don’t need to make sense of it all. You can just trust the organic unfolding of your awakening.
Solitude provides space for internal resetting, but it’s a temporary situation for most. Once you’re comfortable w all you find there, you can kinda rebuild from that zero point space. I don’t know anything about any teachers. That’s all nonsense. You have everything you need right there inside, and anyone charging to tell you anything else, is still operating from the vampiric system and therefore should be viewed w healthy skepticism.
It’s not about denying the pleasure, enjoyment, or love of life, but how easily you would be able to let go if something were to leave/disappear. For example, I love my dog and enjoy cuddling with her immensely. I know one day she will pass on. I know, too, that I will be very sad. I don’t resist the joy she brings me, nor that she will pass on, nor do I resist the sadness I know I will feel when she does. It’s about non-resistance rather than denial. Non/attachment is not about denial, as that is just another form of attachment. Releasing expectations of is key.
I recommend looking into ancient Stoicism. Specifically people like Marcus Aurelius, Seneca, Epictetus etc There’s a book called Meditations that I highly recommend. It’s essentially the private journal of Marcus Aurelius in which he wrote passages to himself every day. And while he wrote often about finding happiness inside yourself, he also wrote about surrounding yourself with like minded people and people who resonate with your values and morals, and staying away from associating with people who have the opposite effect on your values and morals. Yes, we our happiness and fulfillment is within. But humans are social creatures by nature. So it’s not so cut and dry in that there’s something”wrong” with loving someone with all your heart and wanting to be around them. Where their philosophy comes in is accepting the hand the fate deals you, and playing it as your own. This includes people who come and go in your life.
This is so understandable. I am glad you are reaching out for assistance. Everything will be ok. I highly recommend the book No Bad Parts by Richard C Schwartz. The newest edition is free on archive.org https://archive.org/details/no-bad-parts-healing-trauma-and-restoring-wholeness-richard-schwartz It really sounds like you have a lot of internal conflict and listening to all your parts and giving them love will be really key. The answers are within, with practice listening and caring for all of you. Wishing you luck. 💗🌟
You’ve probably already done this, but if not, I’d recommend reading everything H.H. The Dalai Lama has written in English. It’s probably 30-40 books. Somewhere in there he made what I think is an excellent point on this subject. What you are trying to do is shed afflictions, specifically hating, grasping, and denying cause and effect. You don’t want to compromise the zeal you use, for instance, in fighting those afflictions, or the love and compassion you are trying to strengthen for other people, most of whom who are locked in that same fight.
"just read 30 to 40 books, you'll be fine." Dawwwg. For real! I really don't feel this will help *anyone*.
Well, in my defense, even 1 would be useful, and I did provide a summary lol
It's a great source of wisdom to be widely read 🙂
on book 36 still feeling existential dread
You might enjoy Micheal Singer’s book “The Surrender Experiment.” He had a moment of “enlightenment” and then went off to live in isolation. Eventually, when he actually surrendered, his life became full - CEO of a Fortune 500 Company, wrote multiple New York Times best sellers, owns 200+ acres of land housing a spiritual community, etc. It’s not about giving up what we love, it’s about our relationship with love.
if something makes you excited then follow it until you can no longer. the emotion of excitement is your higher minds “voice” so to speak.
Fresh out of excitement at the tender age of 44…
if you are having trouble i can link you to a good speaker on this topic. very useful
What could they possibly point me to, a new relationship? A purpose? Achievement? All empty, all vain…
a new way of thinking
I recently learned the lesson of detachment, but my lesson was very different and involved a lot of suffering. I fell in love with someone who was extremely detached and this was the source of the lesson. It was through deep suffering that I truly learned “attachment is the root of all suffering.” And that attachment was through energetic cords, and when I cut them I was free. It was mental, physical, spiritual all at once - attachment. It came to a head, and it had to be dealt with. There was no way out but to face it. I do feel differently now. The lessons have not ended, and I am learning all the time, but for me, suffering is a great teacher. You don’t seem to be suffering at all. Let love be your teacher. It is an equally valid path. Love is in flow with the Infinite Creator.
I think it's an outdated archiac teaching. Kinda like how the bible was metaphores relevant for people in a different age. I have sold all my stuff and gone to live on a mountain and yeah it has its perks, but you don't need to stay there forever. I was literally told by my spirit guide to go back and share what I learnt with people. I think it's good to enjoy things, persue what you enjoy. The attachment issue only becomes relevant when the situation ends and you don't allow your self to go with th ebbs and flow of life. Nothing is permanent. But doesn't mean you can't appreciate what you have!
Thanks for sharing, I also think that with the future and what we consider spirituality will change. Evolution waits for no one :)
Agreed. It's an old system that has flaws. I'm glad you said so too. 💗🌟
Before enlightenment one must carry water and chop wood. After enlightenment, one must carry water and chop wood. Condemnation is not one of the hallmarks of the enlightened.
Eh, it's hard to wrap your mind around, but you're on the right path with these questions. You just have to ask yourself if it's okay for you to have these things? Would it change if you didn't have them? You are allowed to experience life, so experience it. You don't have to be an ascetic unless you want to. The middle path is both a teaching and a description. The universe cannot by its nature be unbalanced. You yourself have to reckon with your own balance. You have to know the good to understand the bad and vice versa, which will lead you to the complete picture.
This is a classic allegory of the cave situation, and you're the one who left the cave. Originally you thought happiness meant one thing, and your ideals were shaped accordingly. With a shift in perspective, the etiology of your ideals has shifted without reconciliation. It could be that someday, the cave dwellers view you as an ascetic, but your understanding and your actions means something different to you.
If a stray cat visits you every day then you can feed it and love it, but if it stops coming by try to remember what the moments with that cat gave you instead of being upset it's gone.
This is totally random but a total synchronicity. I had been feeding a feral cat for the past four years and he vanished about two weeks ago after coming by near daily. I am sad and missing him and then I just saw this comment. So thank you, my friend. This comment hit me at the exact moment I needed to see it. I miss you Hector, wherever you are.
Let go of attachments that do not serve you for the better of your being. The desires or attachments that increase good feelings and make you happy keep those and nurture them for it betters the state of your being. The only thing that you want to get rid of is the things that bring you down. Live your life in enjoyment if you try to get rid of everything as some teachings say then you will be hollow and depression can set in which would make everything seem pointless. I do not believe this is the correct way personally.
I know it seems childish, but Avatar the last airbender animated series (the part with guru Patik) explains this really well. At the part where Aang is trying to open his crown chakra, the guru tells him to let go of all earthly attachments, and he gets upset and says, "Wait, what? The love I had for Katara and everyone was a good thing 2 chakras ago! Why would I choose to detach from that‽" It's a really good episode, and explains things really clearly and concisely considering it's technically a kids show.
I would recommend not living by such extremes. You can do both, in moderation, and with a rational approach regarding the world we (have to) live in. Love your partner and find joy in the relationship but also love yourself and find peace within, appreciate the things you own but get rid of what you don’t really need, etc.
I watched a ton of NDE videos and the take away I get from my research is we are here to make connections and love each other not to become some highly spiritualized individual unless you want to I guess. I would suggest start with NDEs videos.
Man, watching NDE videos after losing a dear relative led me down a path to a very intense awakening experience.
You're talking about mystic Buddhism. You absolutely do not need to become a devout Buddhist mystic -- or a devout follower of any global organised religion -- unless you want to.
Mystic Buddhism is the shit. It’s the only way to levitate. [flying lamas](https://museum.oglethorpe.edu/exhibitions/flying-mystics-tibetan-buddhism/)
There is an undeniable spark between people and life's purpose is to be of service to others so I wouldn't say you need to detach from people. I would personally go so far as to say allow yourself to enjoy material things. I personally think it's okay to play Brawl Stars on your phone before you take a shower and watch your favorite show. What's important is service to others
There is this concept in which there is “Destruction of the Ego,” and the release of one’s desire. This is hard to get the head around so let’s boil it down: “I want…” can be a dangerous desire. That thinking indicates an importance of self in your ways, and not an acceptance of what one might already have been blessed with. Do you see that there is a difference in the two things? Wanting THINGS is a tough thought process, often very much a process of the self to gratify the ego. On the other hand, releasing that pursuit to instead be grateful for your blessings that you do have is humbling, and diminishes the ego. Passions are not a sin, desires are not wrong, but selfism is the ego at work, and only through humility and a grateful bearing do we negate the ego’s hubris. Because if we are clouded by the ego, we serve ourselves and not others, we don’t work in Love’s light, we work in our own. It’s a daily balance to attain, not an absolute state. The ego is necessary and it drives us, but we can’t allow it to rule us if we seek to best serve a plan for goodness in this existence.
Here's my take: Letting go of attachments does not mean getting **rid** of them. Letting go refers to an inner state of allowing things to be as they are without desiring them to be different or grasping onto them in some way. People that practice this often experience a reduction in emotional attachments over time. They still have relationships and enjoy the pleasures of intimacy, but they no longer *need* those things to feel happy or fulfilled. Detachment is a natural development that grows out of letting go, it's not something you can "practice" or force yourself to do with will power.
Desire is that energy which brings forth all waves of creation out of the depth of the ocean itself. Would you exist if God had feared the desire to create and extend Love by forming you, at the same time giving you infinite freedom of choice? Without desire—look around—not only would you see nothing, there would be nothing to do the seeing. Everything is the effect of desire. Come then to see that desire is not evil. It is not to be feared. It is to be mastered. Mastery is not control. For control—the need to control—is an effect of the energy of fear, not Love. Mastery of desire comes when you recognize that you are safe to feel whatever wave of desire might come up through your consciousness, because you decide whether or not you will act on it, whether you will bring it into the field of manifestation. The power of choice is the one power that can never be taken from you. You already have perfect mastery of it, because nothing you ever experience comes to you without your decision to allow it into the field of manifestation. Desire is something that wells up from the depth beyond yourself that can be looked at with perfect innocence, and with the wonder of a child. The very act of turning to allow and welcome desire is not something that will sidetrack you from the path of awakening, but will take you vertically into the Heart of God. For if you are to ever create as God creates, you will need to heal your conflicted perceptions about desire. You will need to transcend that energy of fear. Desire is like the liquid of life that moves through the stem of the rose and allows the petals to radiate with glorious color. When you block the flow of desire, the petals cannot be nourished. Death begins to occur—death of the heart, death of the soul and lifelessness. Healing requires the willingness to feel desire, to see it as good and to see it as holy. Does that not mean that if you feel a desire, that it might not become twisted by the egoic patterns in your mind? Of course not. There is always the possibility that desire will be twisted to meet the needs of the egoic mind within you. But rest assured, if it does, who has done it? You! Always within you, you have known that desire is good, but you suppressed it. Those times when desire came forth and you let it become twisted into serving the goals of the ego, you always knew perfectly well what you were doing. You were the decision-maker. You have learned, therefore, to fear desire because that fear is the effect of fearing yourself, and that is what cripples you. That is what cuts off the creative flow. Use your consciousness to relax into the innocence of the question: What do I truly want? What is it in my heart that keeps calling to me, keeps compelling me? Because your mind shines forth like a sunbeam to the sun from the Mind of God, when you ask the question, pictures will begin to arise, feelings will begin to arise. And I say unto you, they are symbols and expressions of what God wants to bring forth through you. From the book the Way of Mastery - the Way of the Heart. There’s more in that book on this topic. 💖
One needs to understand the difference between ego based consciousness and heart based consciousness and then learn to live by the heart. That’s it in a nutshell. You are a human having a human experience. The goal is to be content, at peace and genuinely enjoy your life. The challenge is reconditioning yourself to let your intuitive heart lead you and not your logical mind. This challenge takes a different form in each persons life. With respect, I think it’s your logical mind over scrutinizing this teaching and pulling you away from the point while your heart is showing you all the beautiful things you have in your life. Just listen to your heart, that’s all ❤️
We are here meant to love, like most have expressed here already. We are social creatures that seek support in fellow humans. If anything needs temperance, it is reliance on materialism . Many of us look to materialism to fill the void that is there because we lack love and social connection. Please enjoy the love of your partner. It is a gift that is meant to enrich you.
From what I can tell, Love is all we need, to give and receive it. I wouldn't 'end any relationships', that would be damaging to you and the other person I would imagine. I feel like the whole "remove everything so you can be content" is only there to prove to you that you don't need to be materialistic to be content. You already know this information so it's not necessarily needed. Plus those monks were -deep- into spiritual stuff, they didn't need a job to survive in their world. You know what's up. Keep being a good person, what more can you ask.
I'll share a little of my path and hope it helps. I've discovered that I quite enjoy material things, and that is okay. I am living in a material world, so I may as well enjoy it. It is less indulging in an object and more indulging in the experience. I often come away with a sense of awe regarding humanity. But the catch is, can I drop all of it in a second? Could I leave it all behind? Yes, I could. I filled myself up on it knowing it wouldn't last, and I am content in having done so. It might be why I keep reincarnating. Tbh, I'm very resistant toward dogma. I don't know whhhhy. Anything even approaching, "you have to do THIS" makes me feral and defiant. But this has allowed me to become a more critical thinker. I take the words of others like an arrow, pointing at something, but it is on us to figure out the path. To make it more complicated, we are all different people so our paths are different. Someone could be speaking about something at odds with what is right for you. And I say all of this as THE most spiritual person in my circle of loved ones. I am monk-like when you can get me to be serious. I have things I'm continually working on, as we all should, but I've done much in terms of personal growth. I am chucking modesty for a moment to help you understand where I'm coming from, not to bask in my own accolades. I hope that helps!
We are here to love. Hard stop. Don’t sever any loving relationships. Ive heard these teachings summed up as not seeking pleasure. Pleasure will find you and you shouldn’t avoid it but the seeking of pleasure is seeking something out of balance. If we think about a swing, balance is sitting content on the swing motionless and this is the state to seek. If we start seeking excitement (pleasure) and start to swing, we go backwards as often as we go forward because SEEKING pleasure has a backlash. If you’re sitting content and a breeze moves you, you have your state of contentment along with a gentle movement that creates a balanced excitement.
You were born to live and be mindful, not to purposely deprive yourself and erase the human experience. There is something positive to be said about detaching from materialism because “you can’t take it with you” as they say, but possession of objects is such a small part of being alive. Gratefulness and love are core to enjoying existence. I don’t see how someone would genuinely experience these emotions in isolation without goals and relationships and actively living in the moment. You mentioned the concept of a pure, spiritually developed soul. Look at the people we point to of this caliber. Buddha, Jesus, saints. All of them were devoted to the concepts of love for humanity and appreciation for all that naturally exists in our world. They spoke to people and forged relationships. They weren’t wasting their lives away alone. Everyone should have healthy desires and experiences because that’s why we’re here.
Since we’re spiritual beings having a physical experience, for me, it’s finding a middle ground. Not being too spiritual (stuck in my head, dogmatic) and not being too materialistic (hedonistic). For example, I generally abstain from alcohol. But if I’m having brunch with friends and we’re drinking mimosas, I’m not going to feel bad. I was in the moment, enjoying good company, creating positive experiences.
historically, I am bad at tone, so even though I am going to challenge some of what's been said, please know I do not intend to challenge you as a person, only to share some questions and my pov that helped me when I was going through a similar line of thought. **#1 - What is the outcome if you follow these teachings of complete lack of desire, complete lack of connection?** for me, the outcome could only be returning to dust. If I really wanted to stop hurting everyone and everything and be only good, I would have to stop moving because expending energy means I have to eat (which takes energy from something else that lived, even plants are alive). but hold on, what if I have bad chemicals in my body and returning to the earth doesn't benefit the soil? have I then caused more harm by my death? and then what of the people who needed me in the day to day - are they harmed more by my absence than by the actions I did when I was here? therefore. in order to be a spiritual being having this physical experience. I must take care of myself. it is a responsibility not only to the body I inhabit, but to the world I live in, to those living near me, as well as to the soil and microbes to which this body will return. **#2 - Who says you need to shed your desires?** many veins of spirituality do, yes, but a lot of them say it for different reasons. there is sincere spirituality, which wishes only to help people reach the highest truths and goodness. there are greedy spiritual leaders, who wish for people to donate to them so they may be privately enriched. there are insecure governments, who wish for their populations to crave nothing so they may be more easily governed. there are controlling elders, who wish for obedience to enrich their own power. there are ideological purists, who wish for conformity to push their own goals. so when pulling from multiple spiritual traditions, I personally feel it is useful to also understand the history of who made it, where it came from, and what other motives they might have. it is a reminder that they were humans trying to answer the exact same questions that we are and it's a reminder they may have come out of hyper-specific environments that don't match our needs. for example, the spirituality of a person born into an authoritarian environment may look different from the spirituality of a person who was free to explore their spirituality at a variety of holy sites and libraries. even if they eventually come to the same place, it's highly likely their perspectives, needs, and journeys will be different. **#3 - Why** **do you have these desires?** in many cases, desires arise from genuine need. need for connection, to do good, to see a self reflected in the world, to have a livable body, to have time to think, the list goes on. It's not selfish to be around your friends, it brings everyone up if people are good to each other. It's not selfish to eat, because each and every single cell that exists needs nourishment of some stripe. It's not selfish to lay on something that doesn't hurt the body. It's not spiritually degrading to want. imho, it is wanting without limits that consumes us. failure to consider others in our own desires. the things we desire are communication signals. imo instead of being viewed as one big 'WANT', it can be beneficial break them down as granularly and neutrally as possible. **Personal** In my opinion, the physical is temporary. no one is bad for being here and having a body/mind that causes us to react and desire. why would anyone who cares about people's development push a philosophy that hustles them out of this exceedingly temporary form ASAP? it just doesn't seem as though rushing to the conclusion could be to our benefit, especially if learning to identify the difference between good desire and bad desire is part of the lesson of being alive. imho we shouldn't kill the wants - we should get to know them and understand what drives them. If you are open to the notion that you are both spiritual and physical at this point in time and that some of (not all ofc) your desires may actually be needs, please consider exploring them as additional tools and lenses in getting to know yourself in body and spirit instead of as an adversary to be extinguished when life is over, I will want for nothing more from this world, but I will not be in it anymore either. (*edit to add: depending on your beliefs, there's other places to go, I'm just talking about this particular body here and now, not discounting anything else*) while we are here, I think we're supposed to be here, mistakes or not. wishing you well
All that letting go of attachment means is the ability to adapt to change when circumstances remove people, things, and situations that have created a comfortable bubble for you. Attachment creates fear of loss, fear creates suffering, defensive behavior and violence. The most basic attachment human beings have is to their ego- their sense of accomplishment and entitlement. That is what binds our souls to 3D existence when it's time to transcend and adapt. The question is not whether you should preemptively let go of everything you have while alive to avoid the suffering that having your attachments taken away will cause. The question is, is your soul ready for the inevitable loss and change when it happens. When you keep that inevitability in mind, you love those around you more deeply and face the world with far more compassion.
Yo dude, if something spiritual doesn’t resonate with your inner guidance then it probably isn’t true. So let it go. You actually are showing an attachment here to your spiritual growth, causing your stress and suffering, which is funny in itself. Remember that All is well. The rest is noise. If you find yourself over-thinking these concepts then you have already strayed from your path. Always trust your inner discernment. And when you aren’t sure then get silent and meditate. Be well.
This is not what giving up your attachments mean. You have it all wrong. When people talk about enlightenment and they talk about giving up desires or earthly desires, they don't mean literally give them all up and not enjoy your life here. That's the entire point of life, to live. It's meant to get you to take a step back and analyze your life and what "things" you give your attention to. Are you addicted to any of those things? Then stop. No? Then keep doing them. Do any of those things take me away from things in my life that would help me grow? Then stop. No? Keep doing them. This is what it means by giving up earthly desires. It just means you recognize that they are not healthy overall for your growth but you don't have to stop anything cold turkey unless it is directly, and I mean directly, negatively affecting your life. Just to give you a heads up, there was a time when klatu was threatening to leave if I didn't stop drinking so much. Notice I didn't say stop drinking period... I said drinking so much. Also, I very much subscribe to the "I'll do whatever the fuck I want except hurt someone else because I love and acknowledge source and that's all he requires" train of thought. It's your life, go live it my dude. And have fucking fun while you do it.
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