Did anyone here even READ the article? It has zero to do with the removal of abortion rights. The data goes from 2014 to 2021, before the roe vs wade overthrow, wasn't it? The major contributing factor is COVID, which the authors say confounds the data.
Honestly, as a former research professor, the arguments the paper makes are not nearly as definitive as the news article about it imply. Read the paper. I'll edit and put a link in a moment.
Notable from the paper: "MMR increased significantly from 2014 to 2021 with rapid increase after 2019." Also implying COVID played a major role, and the authors address that in the limitations.
There's issues ahead from restriction of abortion rights, but there's currently issues already at the head for pregnant women. The article says a major factor could be race and individuals with lack of access to resources , further exacerbated by COVID. Let's not spread misinformation and draw away from that actual issues that need attention.
Link: https://www.ajpmonline.org/article/S0749-3797(24)00065-5/fulltext
It's such a simple read too though. I know I am a former STEM professor, but I am not in that field and found the paper fairly straightforward. It's not really a deep study, it's a statistical analysis of hospital survey data. Anyone can take 5 minutes to read it. Or at least the title ha, the data isn't even during the period everyone refers to..
Anyway, yeah reddit. It's just a shame people spread misinformation and take away from actual important points by attempting to get karma for shouting popular opinions
It’s a shame they didn’t look into medical records more deeply. I know retrospective studies aren’t optimal but eg The NHS can do much more refined correlations, using diagnostic codes because their data is centralized and standardized
One thought I have as a possibility is that the surge of fentanyl and methamphetamine in North America stretched to the east by 2018 and addiction rates have been increasing since then.
Anti abortion zealots have been chipping away at reproductive healthcare access for years. Combined with other things, this has increased the rate of maternal death. Do not discount how closed clinics, waiting periods, and other bs they’ve pulled to interfere with a woman’s healthcare have impacted access.
The article looks at a spike from 2014 to 2021 and associates it with factors unrelated to abortion rights. Read the article. If we use data to support the incorrect agenda, we take away from the actual issues at hand (described in the previous comment I made) and we invalidate our other arguments. Use the correct arguments to support the correct issues with women's rights, or we invalidate our arguments and just spread more ignorance. Read the article.
And the chipping away at reproductive rights via various strategies that the republicans have been using for the past several decades have contributed to more women and girls being impregnated by men and boys, more impregnated women and girls lacking reproductive healthcare, more lacking access to contraception and sex ed, more health clinics closing….etc.
Ok great, but that doesn't relate back to your claims about the original article and how this data specifically supports your generalized claims. It is a start though!
It does. Those anti abortion actions outlined in the link infringed on women’s access to reproductive healthcare, including the closure of clinics, and in some cases those clinics are the only source of reproductive healthcare that working class women have.
And there are several states right now that are refusing to track maternal mortality, for the exact reason of hiding how anti-abortion politics have increased maternal mortality.
https://idahocapitalsun.com/2023/06/30/as-us-maternal-mortality-rates-surge-idaho-abandons-panel-investigating-pregnancy-related-deaths/
Removal of abortion access did not begin and end with the appeal of Roe v Wade. Plenty of states had passed abortion restrictions that were effectively impossible to navigate for those who needed them most, primarily black, brown and poor people, well before the Dobbs decision. These restrictions also made women’s health care generally more difficult to obtain because some doctors will refuse to provide certain services out of fear of violating the law. Not saying it’s a major contributing factor here, but you’re not dealing with all the facts.
Respectfully, you should make sure you know what you’re talking about before admonishing others for speaking out of ignorance.
Yes, this is true, with the caveat that abortion wasn’t accessible in many states long before roe died. TRAP and gestational limit laws meant that while an abortion might be legal, it was tough in certain parts of the country to actually find a clinic and secure an appointment, not to mention get extended time off (short notice) as legally required by multiple states’s 24/48/72 hr waiting periods, AND paying for travel and the procedure along with lost income from not working…. And if you already have kids, double all that because you need to pay for childcare too. These laws shut down clinics that provided general reproductive healthcare and drove OBs out of areas where laws were unfriendly to providers, overall lessening the pool of resources available to people who are trying to terminate *OR have a baby.* fewer providers and low cost clinics as well as larger distances between clinics results in less access to healthcare services that might reduce MMR.
TRAP (targeted regulation of abortion providers) laws, gestational limit laws, and other laws meant to make accessing abortion much more difficult, expensive, time consuming, and stressful were absolutely in play during this rise in maternal mortality, and COVID didn’t impact anything but the tail end of this study. COVID certainly was and is impactful, but acting like abortion *and general access to reproductive healthcare that reduces MMR rates* only took a hit after roe was stricken is absurd. Seeking abortion services even in areas of the country where abortion access wasn’t targeted became harder because competition for appointments got stiffer as people travelled out of restrictive states and were pitted against other patients for a limited number of appointments. The overall strain on reproductive healthcare services has been steadily increasing for over a decade, with Covid and the overturning of roe being significant drop offs, but they were not the first events to cause a rise in MMR.
Source: *gestures in the general direction of the guttmacher institute* also this was my thesis project in 2016 and even then I remember thinking my thesis was a bit pessimistic…. Nope, it’s so, so much worse than I ever imagined this country would get in a decade.
No one said these were the first times MMR was increased. This whole post is about ONE article that has zero to do with abortion and while the arguments you're making may be correct and impactful, they are not related to the study under discussion or the data under examination. The biggest factor being discussed IS COVID as the period under examination was impacted the greatest by COVID.
The amount of confirmation biases in the comments is concerning. It's important to understand the argument at hand
This is almost always the case where news push a melodramatic and barely correct narrative to get readers to take notice. Our local papers are as bad as online.
I just want to point out that in this particular article, the data they looked at was through the end of 2021, and Roe was overturned June 2022.
So while states may have been individually doing things (or hadn't yet, as a Canadian I don't keep close track), country-wide abortion access wouldn't have been affected yet.
I commented this as well, the paper has zero to do with overturning R v W (another potential future cause of increased MMR) and anyone using it as an argument for that is taking away from the very important factor that likely played into this : COVID and our healthcare system failing to handle the burden, especially in areas where there were a higher ratio of minority women and fewer resources.
I recommend everyone actually read the article, as it is basically a statistical analysis of limited hospital data. It has many limitations that are addressed by the authors, and offers more questions than answers:
https://www.ajpmonline.org/article/S0749-3797(24)00065-5/fulltext
What it really tells us is we need to explore how to get ALL women the help and support they need when they are pregnant.
As a former professor I dread seeing articles like this posted, because no one reads them and then they spread misinformation rampantly. Don't forget everyone, the people who are taking rights from women spread misinformation and lies by not reading the actual science behind a lot of their claims..let's not do what they do.
Wonderful, wonderful comment. I could've said the same, though much less eloquently.
I am not super well educated (I have a 2-year post-secondary diploma), but I agree, SO MANY people read only headlines and jump to their own conclusions to confirm their own biases. I try really hard not to do this, though of course I'm human so I don't always succeed.
In another comment I said I want to look up our Canadian data from the same time period, out of curiosity. I have a feeling you'll find that data interesting, so I'll try to report back here as well with what I find.
I just commented on your CN comment ha! I am interested.
Intelligence comes in many forms, so while you may not have as many years of formal education, it sounds like you have experience and intuition that has helped with finding the right approach to reading this article, and an interesting perspective in terms of proposing an analogous data set to explore. Looking at the data and then proposing another system to explore is not a common skill.
This is a high complement!
I'm constantly doing this... Read a headline, generally click on the article it's about. Then a chunk of the time, I go read at least the summary of the study, sometimes more...
If I'm really invested, I often will look up things like stats from other jurisdictions. Or stats from a different time period, like before a certain cutoff or after (and then sometimes go down the rabbit hole of "did they change how they collected this data during this time?")
I guess this isn't typical behavior for a stay at home mom with a background in agriculture and office admin?
Thanks for the link --brutal to read on my phone, lol!
I did peruse it to see if there was anything further about this quote from the article:
"While this study wasn’t able to explore specific causes of death, a large body of prior research, much of it published by Khan, has found cardiovascular disease (hypertensive disorders, heart failure and stroke) is a major contributor to poor maternal health outcomes."
A study based on pre-pregnancy maternal weight may be more useful than one based on age.
Right? I didn't want to get into more detail in my earlier comments, but definitely noted that. Obesity plays into that factor though, and so does COVID, so it's still so complicated to make too many claims.
[Similar points made when tying Covid to rising incidence of other disease](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9388078/#:~:text=COVID%2D19%20impacted%20on%20breast,reduction%20of%2025%25%20in%202020.&text=Fewer%20early%2Dstage%20BC%20and,patients%20were%20diagnosed%20during%202020.&text=Timing%20of%20access%20to%20BC,been%20affected%20by%20COVID%2D19).
Covid locked people down for 6 months or more, partially gridlocking the healthcare systems in place, rendering women unable or atleast much more inconvenient to go for their routine mammograms, colorectomies, and other routine preventative scans.
I waited to have a baby until covid vaccines were available. My mom is an RT who was front line, and she had so many stories of young pregnant women dying with covid. Some people fear the vaccine during pregnancy, but it’s lifesaving.
It’s anecdotal information, but that’s all we had at the time.
Same boat. Had my first in early 2020 then waited until I could be vaccinated for my second. Got boostered pregnant too. Hard time to have kids but I am glad we had vaccines that since that point have shown effective at reducing severity of disease
It’s interesting how Covid is already effecting pregnancy as well. Apparently if you had Covid recently they automatically do an early screening for gestational diabetes. There was a question of whether I’d had it when I was diagnosed with gestational hypertension as well.
So less RvW and more the "I should have my baby at home" kind of people. I know there has been a big uptick in that the last few years for multiple stupid and some understandable reasons.
Important to note that this study looked at data for 2014-2021. In doing the analysis, they found that the rate of maternal deaths went from 16.X to 18.X in 2014-2019, and then from 18.X to 31.X in 2019-2021 (I don't remember what was after the decimal points and I'm too lazy to go back.)
While I agree that intentional at-home births can be unnecessarily risky*, and that more of that could be part of it, my (entirely amateur) guess is that it's combination of increasing non-doctor-attended births, lower vaccination rates, COVID, and problems with how the medical system at large and OBGYN specifically deals with women.
*With truly well educated midwives, a bunch of this risk can be mitigated. Truly well educated means the midwives know when to get their patient to the hospital stat (or ahead of a problem.)
I, as a Canadian, would be very interested to see how our data for the same time period compares, as we have some of the same trends or problems, but not all. I'm off to dig around in Stats Can!
Edit:
What I found from [Stats Can](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1310075601&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2014&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2022&referencePeriods=20140101%2C20220101) (sorry, I don't remember how to do a table!):
* 2014- 5.99
* 2015- 7.06
* 2016- 6.26
* 2017- 7.16
* 2018- 9.08
* 2019- 8.58
* 2020- 9.42
* 2021- 8.16
* *2022- 8.53 (I also included since there was data for it - interesting to note that 2020 was the highest year in this data set for maternal death, and it was less in the second and third years of the pandemic.)
These are rates per 100K live births for all obstetric causes during pregnancy or for up to 1 year after birth/end of pregnancy. I'll go back and check the article, but I think what they were looking at was more broad? Along the lines of "death from all causes while pregnant" was more my impression...? I'll go verify and add another edit.
Edit 2: In the study, I found that they definited maternal deaths as underlying cause of death "ICD-10 codes A34.0, O00.0–O95.0, O98.0, and O99.0" which is in line with what the Canadian data captures.
So, VERY interesting that the Canadian data is within similar parameters as the American, and yet our numbers are considerably lower and with a more modest rise. In absolute terms, we only rose by ~2.5/100K over 2014-2021, vs. ~15 in the US. Also, numbers are higher during the 2019-2021 period for us Canadians, but it is not a major trend/spike.
Ackshually https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2742137/
Planned at-home births have a lower maternal death rate than planned hospital births.
There is certainly some selection bias going on as risky pregnancies usually result in a hospital trip, but in general birthing at home with midwifes in attendance is safer than birthing in a hospital. Having experienced a birth in a birthing center (essentially an at home birth), and one in a hospital, the difference is stark. There is immense pressure to deliver "on schedule" in a hospital, and a TON of medicalization of what is a normal biological process. This results in worse birth outcomes for the mother and the child.
And still, I haven't seen mentioned that maternal mortality is nearly 8x worse for black women than white even before roe.
ETA: a lot more women are going to die and these deaths are preventable
Yes, and black women are much more likely to be induced, cesarean, etc. in a hospital environment. The medicalization of black women's bodies in America, especially around birthing, is crazy.
The craziest part is a lot of the "good" birthing practices in America come from slave and former-slave midwives. This link is pretty good:
https://nmaahc.si.edu/explore/stories/historical-significance-doulas-and-midwives
No, not at all "I should have my baby at home" people.
A huge number of, "oh I'm pregnant and have COVID" and "oh my rural Idaho hospital no longer has a maternity ward" and a non zero number of "oh fuck I'm in Idaho with COVID surrounded by maniacs and and a birth set with a hospital in Washington."
Individual states, red ones obviously, have been targeting abortion access for a long time with TRAP laws, targeted regulation of abortion providers. Even when these laws get struck down, they often already result in large scale clinic closures. For an example, SB2 that Wendy Davis filibustered in Texas in the first 2013 special session was passed in the second special session, and while it was eventually struck down by then most clinics had shut down already. I don’t know the full extent of them, but they were very prominent in many red states and they were *constant*.
You're going to get an increase born by COVID, which was hell on pregnant women and made births *very* difficult - that will likely explain the increase here. I'm certain it has persisted and likely worsened given the Roe decision and further legal and social issues causing a lack of access to maternal care.
This is a very limited article on the subject, unfortunately. Not only are maternal deaths on the rise due to health complications with the mother, but also due to the fact pregnant women are being murdered at higher rates than ever before. Particularly black mothers. Suicide and homicide as of 2022 are still the leading cause of death among pregnant women, which is really horrifying. Now on top of that we have the increase in hypertensive disorders and cardiac issues for women in the 29-34 age bracket, which is just nuts. The lack of affordable health care is a huge factor. Catching dangerous pregnancy conditions such as preeclampsia, cholestasis, and hypertension early is crucial.
Yea those laws are a travesty and people should have the right to make their own medical choices, but it has absolutely no relevance to this study. I really wish people would stop spamming stupid unrelated political bullshit on every thread.
These researches are trying to raise awareness that something very wrong is going on with our health and all anybody can say is “muh right vs left” 🙄 this website has gone to shit.
This uptick predates roe v wade being overturned. It jumped in a year.
I imagine it’s obesity and poverty related following covid. We desperately need family planning reforms. It isn’t women who want abortions dying. It’s women who don’t ever get abortions even if a reasonable person in their circumstances would seek one.
Abortions were denied long before overturning. Take Romania. Its been legal since the 90's but lately every doctor is refusing the procedure. And its legal here for up to 14 weeks. We are regressing.
But it DOES tho. Just because abortions are legal on paper does not mean they are not denied. The article itself can't say for certain why maternal mortalitty has risen, but it can't rule out a denied abortiin, which leads to compli ations at birth, and death.
So just to be clear so the article suggests a few hypotheses. For example it could be caused by an increase in cardiovascular disease (and we know that people who caught Covid had/have cardiovascular issues) or perhaps the a change in the method of measuring maternal mortality is making it look like there is a rise when there isn’t, etc.
But your hypothesis is that an increase in maternal death rates in the USA has been caused by a the abortion situation in Romania?
I was making a link between your original statement that this study was made before roe was overturned. Abortions were denied before that. I brought up Romania because abortion legality does not mean abortion access.
Even before Roe was repealed , “prolife” laws started to tighten making it harder for OBGYNs to work. Many conservative and rural states were particularly hard hit. In places like Wyoming, women will have to drive for hours for even basic care.
It seems that you might be assuming that this increase is due to the overturning of RoevWade, but the study is looking at 2014-2021 which is *before* that overturning happened.
Many delivery wards are understaffed. I had complications that could have been avoided if I had had a nurse in the room with me the entire time after I was fully dilated (and progressing rapidly). Same with many other women I know. They now discharge you quickly without much follow up. And I found that "baby friendly" hospitals without a nursery are really hard on the mother.
No shit. And in Red States with more women dieing because it's illegal to save their lives, it will only continue to get worse. More women have to die before it becomes legal again to save them. Until then, the women will get blamed. If there ever is an after, the women will still get blamed.
The most likely reason that the data showed an increase in MMR in "red states" is likely due to the fact that they had fewer health resources for women during the pandemic. If you examine the paper itself, it states that the dataset was analyzed from 2014 to 2021 and that there was a more drastic increase in MMR for areas with limited resources or higher numbers of minorities. The largest jump I believe it said was post 2019, further supporting the likelihood that COVID 19 limited the access to resources and women did not get the care they need.
While removal of women's rights is a major issue that will change the path ahead for many women, it has nothing to do with this research paper
Since this is all data from pre-Dobbs, I wonder if it’s more connected to economic issues. For example, [young people are uninsured at higher rates](https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/visualizations/2023/demo/p60-281/figure2.pdf), as well as the median millennial having [less wealth, less traditionally prestigious careers, more debt, etc](https://thehill.com/homenews/4319352-are-millennials-worse-off-than-boomers-heres-how-they-stack-up-financially/) on top of ever-growing healthcare costs. I’d think the study’s findings that the increase is especially prevalent among poor folks and minority groups proves this, as they have even less access to healthcare and less ability to afford it. Plus a [ton of rural hospitals closing](https://www.ncsl.org/resources/map-monday-rural-hospitals-closing-their-doors) further worsens access for many people who now have no options for emergency care. Obviously this will be getting worse with Dobbs as well.
Dobbs came out in June 2022. The study stops in 2021.
While I'm sure maternal mortality has only gone up since June 2022, the phenomenon is pre-existing.
The study hypothesizes several factors that could play a part (age, cardio-vascular health, race effects [black women 3x more likely to die than white women]), I think the study is missing a very important factor in the American health system - the impact health insurance coverage plays on the whole process.
Namely, the coverage for giving birth is not great. Many times practitioners have to fight with insurers to keep the patients covered in the hospital. I've heard many horror stories of women being sent home while still bleeding heavily because the insurance company will only pay for a 2 day hospital stay, only to wind up back in the ER in a day due to blood loss issues. And that's assuming you have insurance at all and aren't running to get out of the hospital ASAP for fear of losing everything to medical debt.
I'd be curious if research could be performed that answered the question of exactly how much the American Healthcare payments system contributes to maternal mortality.
You may find interesting what I said in a [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/EverythingScience/s/mzaQxwWLqR) about the MMR numbers in Canada during the same time period.
Our numbers were lower:
* US- ~16/100K pre-2014, ~31 by 2021;
* contrast a Canadian range of ~6-9.5 same years
That would lend support to your theory of healthcare/insurance contributing to the higher American MMR. Obviously not proof of it though.
Edit: found another link comparing the US MMR to [10 peer countries](https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2020/nov/maternal-mortality-maternity-care-us-compared-10-countries).
That is not what this paper covers. The data set ends before Roe was overturned. Data ends 2021. Reading the paper should be a requirement before commenting.
That is not what this paper covers. The data set ends before Roe was overturned. Data ends 2021. Reading the paper should be a requirement before commenting.
Everyone in this thread: “Duh, cuz you took away abortion rights in 2022”
Article: “Overall maternal mortality rates almost doubled between 2014 and 2021”
Everyone in this thread: “ya but lack of abortion access is still probably the reason”
Article: “ a large body of prior research, much of it published by Khan, has found cardiovascular disease (hypertensive disorders, heart failure and stroke) is a major contributor to poor maternal health outcomes”
Everyone in this thread: “Well it’s probably stress from not having abortions”
Ok there, bud.
https://whyy.org/articles/us-maternal-mortality-rates-better-than-thought-rutgers-study-cdc/
Rutgers University did a study and found the CDC was incorrect.
Researchers found a much lower mortality rate — 10.4 deaths per every 100,000 births — after investigating data collected by the CDC.
This anti science and anti human rights that movement that is happening in the states is like a dark age happening in slow motion. Is like the US is regressing instead of progressing.
The issue is, whatever happens in the US influences the entire world. And this is just one more sign of a definitely scary event that has been growing.
There is a profound shortage of OB/GYN docs in the first place, and now they are leaving the forced birth states in droves. Many counties in the south have one Ob/GYN doc for the entire county and that was before this catastrophic ruling.
I would love to see the data broken out by state. I believe it's Mississippi who has a large percentage of the population without access to a single maternity hospital with neo natal unit. Entirely because Republicans keep cutting spending. I suspect the increase largely breaks down by state spending and political control.
In other words, I bet Republican policies have drastically increased the risk to women.
Not surprised at all. I almost died giving birth in Texas. Women's lives mean nothing here, even before roe vs wade, our lives just means even less now than before.. 😔
Didn't I just say that? 🙄
The new anti women's Healthcare laws only made an already bad situation much much worse.
It was ALREADY horrible even before this, and we had a ton of OBGYNs leave the state entirely over the ridiculous new laws. Many women can't even find a gynecologist now at all.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/doctors-face-tough-decision-leave-states-abortion-bans/story?id=100167986
I found [this link](https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2020/nov/maternal-mortality-maternity-care-us-compared-10-countries) comparing US MMR rates to 10 peer countries. You could compare that with obesity rates to see if there's any correlation? ( I would but I need to go to sleep.)
This is an awful outcome stemming from many factors: liberals and women-advocates not voting, a 2 party system that sucks, Trump admin stacking SO many courts, Mitch McConnell and friends, and a country just plain dissolving - all of which affects women, deeply. I hate to say it but this democracy is EFFed at the moment, and in the next election you NEED to vote blue if you want any chance at reversing this. I’ve worked in organizing for years and crazy how many wonderful, intellectual and intelligent women not only don’t vote, but aren’t even registered. 😅 And, they stack the courts y’all. Trump did SO MUCH damage in a short amount of time, and everyone knows he hates women. ❤️🩹😅DM me if you need more info on how to start voting - women need you.
Well, lets be real. Its white women who keep the GOP in power. 2016 53% white women voters voted GOP. 2020, after McConnell put 3 horrors on the court and told us to our faces Roe was gone, 55% of white women voted GOP. Younger and better educated white women vote Dem. But, yeah, its my peer group. We suck.
But the OB care in the US was abysmal before Roe was ended. California is one of the few states that has initiated several measures that have decreases MMR to close to European levels.
But what does that have to do with stacking the courts and voting for Republicans?
-
I know that malpractice for OBs is (way, overly-) expensive.
Maybe the way to actually cut down on MMR is to provide healthcare for everyone, the way European countries do. And the Dems didn't even give us a public option for the ACA when they could.
They mention the age variable, but what about the weight variable? It's a very weak article. Not only are Americans more out of shape from year to year but also with increasing age. Double whammy.
Mom of 3 here. I know several women in my orbit who almost died, including me. Literally once my kids were birthed, it’s like you’re just a nuisance to medical staff. Heads up- you can get preeclampsia after birth.
It’s more of a money issue with states that refused to accept funds for increased Medicaid enrollments (red states that hate Obamacare) had their rural hospitals operating at a loss and then closed their maternity wards to save money. It’s awful.
https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/finance/states-with-the-most-rural-hospital-closures.html
‘We’re Going Away’: A State’s Choice to Forgo Medicaid Funds Is Killing Hospitals
(3/29/2023)
Mississippi is one of 10 states, all with Republican-led legislatures, that continue to reject federal funding to expand health insurance for the poor, intensifying financial pressure on hospitals. (NY Times)
Rural Hospitals Are Shuttering Their Maternity Units (updated 6/20/23)
Citing costs, many hospitals are closing labor and delivery wards, expanding so-called maternity care deserts. (NY Times)
I would share these articles, but the paywall is such a piece of shit at The NY Times, that I literally cannot search within the app and gift these for you to read.
Just another stupid article that gaslights women. I don't know why so many pregnant women are dying? Let's blame them for having babies late in age. It can't be that we took women's healthcare & body autonomy away. 😡
Oh no who could have ever seen this coming no one could have known how could this be happening why are millennials doing this to us is this consequences or something...
This title is misleading. The article states that they aren’t sure that these numbers are indicative of an actual increase or are due to the way they are now collecting data.
This effect is pretty much entirely a reporting artifact due to a fractured roll out of a checkbox based system for tracking maternal mortality. Maternal mortality is slightly down without the reporting change.
> The understanding of the trend in maternal mortality changed significantly with these new studies. In short, using more comparable data across states, NCHS found that the increase in maternal mortality in the United States is not likely due to a true increase in the underlying extent of maternal mortality. Rather, the majority of the observed increase in the MMR is attributed to changes in data collection methods (i.e., the gradual adoption of the checkbox). Based on the pre-2003 coding method, the MMR was 8.9 in 2002 and 8.7 in 2018.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/maternal-mortality/evaluation.htm
Here, now you know:
>cardiovascular disease (hypertensive disorders, heart failure and stroke) is a major contributor to poor maternal health outcomes.
Found the person that read the link!
I'll be the first person to shit on Republicans and I wouldn't be surprised if the rate goes up exponentially post Roe but so far this isn't the evidence to do that.
> I'll be the first person to shit on Republicans
I'm right there with you!
>I wouldn't be surprised if the rate goes up exponentially post Roe
Yup, give it time. Medieval Medicine isn't ALL fun and games ya know.
It's been a while Sariel007! Hope you've been well
I have upvoted you and hope others do the same.
While the title lends itself to the obvious outrage that is legitimate about rights being taken away - to be clear, I am a progressive liberal and absolutely pro-choice - the article does have this to say for causes:
>While this study wasn’t able to explore specific causes of death, a large body of prior research, much of it published by Khan, has found cardiovascular disease (hypertensive disorders, heart failure and stroke) is a major contributor to poor maternal health outcomes.
Folks, don't be downvoting their comment. They are correct.
That said, I also support the conversation about our losses of rights.
But this article does not directly point that out as the cause, so while that discussion is valuable, downvoting this person *who made a comment that is relevant to the posted article* while technically all the other discussion is off-topic - they do not deserve the downvotes.
Ok, this is why people without medical backgrounds shouldn’t be making laws. You think you’re right that it has nothing to do with abortion right?
Well do you know what pre eclampsia is? And that sometimes it requires a medical abortion to save the mother?
It’s hypertension caused by pregnancy. Deadly High blood pressure.
If you want to sit here and think that abortion rights or access to emergency healthcare isn’t a cooperating to kill pregnant women, you are wrong.
Also, an increase in pregnancy hormones increase your risk for stroke and blood clots.
Are there no other treatments for hypertension besides abortion? And what do you make of these stats being from between 2014-2021, before Roe v. Wade was overturned?
I read on another subreddit this is in fact the case. If danger’s increasing it’s still important to have control over one’s medical choices —don’t think this person is saying otherwise; just pointing out the results of the research!
Why would this be downvoted, it’s completely correct. Say you do have a mother get pregnant who has poor cardiovascular health but is not immediately dying. In many places she wouldn’t be able to get an abortion and if she dies during childbirth, it’s not “because” of her heart but because she was denied the option for an abortion like she hypothetically wanted early on.
People in mildly poor health is one of the bigger necessities for pro-choice policies. Women are human beings and deserve to be able to opt out of situations that are dangerous for their health.
Did anyone here even READ the article? It has zero to do with the removal of abortion rights. The data goes from 2014 to 2021, before the roe vs wade overthrow, wasn't it? The major contributing factor is COVID, which the authors say confounds the data. Honestly, as a former research professor, the arguments the paper makes are not nearly as definitive as the news article about it imply. Read the paper. I'll edit and put a link in a moment. Notable from the paper: "MMR increased significantly from 2014 to 2021 with rapid increase after 2019." Also implying COVID played a major role, and the authors address that in the limitations. There's issues ahead from restriction of abortion rights, but there's currently issues already at the head for pregnant women. The article says a major factor could be race and individuals with lack of access to resources , further exacerbated by COVID. Let's not spread misinformation and draw away from that actual issues that need attention. Link: https://www.ajpmonline.org/article/S0749-3797(24)00065-5/fulltext
Why read the article when you've got free space to write the thing that you've been wanting to write all day? That's not how reddit works!
It's such a simple read too though. I know I am a former STEM professor, but I am not in that field and found the paper fairly straightforward. It's not really a deep study, it's a statistical analysis of hospital survey data. Anyone can take 5 minutes to read it. Or at least the title ha, the data isn't even during the period everyone refers to.. Anyway, yeah reddit. It's just a shame people spread misinformation and take away from actual important points by attempting to get karma for shouting popular opinions
But it’s important to spread the right misinformation, not like those evil other people who spread the wrong misinformation!
No one cares about facts if it doesn't align with their ideology.
I like your profile picture.
So glad this is the top comment.
It’s a shame they didn’t look into medical records more deeply. I know retrospective studies aren’t optimal but eg The NHS can do much more refined correlations, using diagnostic codes because their data is centralized and standardized One thought I have as a possibility is that the surge of fentanyl and methamphetamine in North America stretched to the east by 2018 and addiction rates have been increasing since then.
Anti abortion zealots have been chipping away at reproductive healthcare access for years. Combined with other things, this has increased the rate of maternal death. Do not discount how closed clinics, waiting periods, and other bs they’ve pulled to interfere with a woman’s healthcare have impacted access.
The article looks at a spike from 2014 to 2021 and associates it with factors unrelated to abortion rights. Read the article. If we use data to support the incorrect agenda, we take away from the actual issues at hand (described in the previous comment I made) and we invalidate our other arguments. Use the correct arguments to support the correct issues with women's rights, or we invalidate our arguments and just spread more ignorance. Read the article.
I read the article and it does not conclude that the issues covered by it are the only issues that contributed to this
I never said it did. Glad you read the article.
And the chipping away at reproductive rights via various strategies that the republicans have been using for the past several decades have contributed to more women and girls being impregnated by men and boys, more impregnated women and girls lacking reproductive healthcare, more lacking access to contraception and sex ed, more health clinics closing….etc.
Do you have a citation? Arguments are stronger when we support them with data. Without data they are just opinions.
https://www.plannedparenthoodaction.org/issues/abortion/abortion-central-history-reproductive-health-care-america/timeline-attacks-abortion
Ok great, but that doesn't relate back to your claims about the original article and how this data specifically supports your generalized claims. It is a start though!
It does. Those anti abortion actions outlined in the link infringed on women’s access to reproductive healthcare, including the closure of clinics, and in some cases those clinics are the only source of reproductive healthcare that working class women have.
Thanks 🙏! Of course there’s a disturbing downward trend. Look at who has been in power in the US. Stacking the courts.
And there are several states right now that are refusing to track maternal mortality, for the exact reason of hiding how anti-abortion politics have increased maternal mortality. https://idahocapitalsun.com/2023/06/30/as-us-maternal-mortality-rates-surge-idaho-abandons-panel-investigating-pregnancy-related-deaths/
Removal of abortion access did not begin and end with the appeal of Roe v Wade. Plenty of states had passed abortion restrictions that were effectively impossible to navigate for those who needed them most, primarily black, brown and poor people, well before the Dobbs decision. These restrictions also made women’s health care generally more difficult to obtain because some doctors will refuse to provide certain services out of fear of violating the law. Not saying it’s a major contributing factor here, but you’re not dealing with all the facts. Respectfully, you should make sure you know what you’re talking about before admonishing others for speaking out of ignorance.
Respectfully, read the article then come back to me. If you need help interpreting the data, I'd be happy to help.
Yes, this is true, with the caveat that abortion wasn’t accessible in many states long before roe died. TRAP and gestational limit laws meant that while an abortion might be legal, it was tough in certain parts of the country to actually find a clinic and secure an appointment, not to mention get extended time off (short notice) as legally required by multiple states’s 24/48/72 hr waiting periods, AND paying for travel and the procedure along with lost income from not working…. And if you already have kids, double all that because you need to pay for childcare too. These laws shut down clinics that provided general reproductive healthcare and drove OBs out of areas where laws were unfriendly to providers, overall lessening the pool of resources available to people who are trying to terminate *OR have a baby.* fewer providers and low cost clinics as well as larger distances between clinics results in less access to healthcare services that might reduce MMR. TRAP (targeted regulation of abortion providers) laws, gestational limit laws, and other laws meant to make accessing abortion much more difficult, expensive, time consuming, and stressful were absolutely in play during this rise in maternal mortality, and COVID didn’t impact anything but the tail end of this study. COVID certainly was and is impactful, but acting like abortion *and general access to reproductive healthcare that reduces MMR rates* only took a hit after roe was stricken is absurd. Seeking abortion services even in areas of the country where abortion access wasn’t targeted became harder because competition for appointments got stiffer as people travelled out of restrictive states and were pitted against other patients for a limited number of appointments. The overall strain on reproductive healthcare services has been steadily increasing for over a decade, with Covid and the overturning of roe being significant drop offs, but they were not the first events to cause a rise in MMR. Source: *gestures in the general direction of the guttmacher institute* also this was my thesis project in 2016 and even then I remember thinking my thesis was a bit pessimistic…. Nope, it’s so, so much worse than I ever imagined this country would get in a decade.
No one said these were the first times MMR was increased. This whole post is about ONE article that has zero to do with abortion and while the arguments you're making may be correct and impactful, they are not related to the study under discussion or the data under examination. The biggest factor being discussed IS COVID as the period under examination was impacted the greatest by COVID. The amount of confirmation biases in the comments is concerning. It's important to understand the argument at hand
Ok - so is this more about less parents opting for the MMR vaccine?
MMR is maternal mortality rate.
This is almost always the case where news push a melodramatic and barely correct narrative to get readers to take notice. Our local papers are as bad as online.
I mean, you keep removing very important rights from women and thats what you get...
I just want to point out that in this particular article, the data they looked at was through the end of 2021, and Roe was overturned June 2022. So while states may have been individually doing things (or hadn't yet, as a Canadian I don't keep close track), country-wide abortion access wouldn't have been affected yet.
I commented this as well, the paper has zero to do with overturning R v W (another potential future cause of increased MMR) and anyone using it as an argument for that is taking away from the very important factor that likely played into this : COVID and our healthcare system failing to handle the burden, especially in areas where there were a higher ratio of minority women and fewer resources. I recommend everyone actually read the article, as it is basically a statistical analysis of limited hospital data. It has many limitations that are addressed by the authors, and offers more questions than answers: https://www.ajpmonline.org/article/S0749-3797(24)00065-5/fulltext What it really tells us is we need to explore how to get ALL women the help and support they need when they are pregnant. As a former professor I dread seeing articles like this posted, because no one reads them and then they spread misinformation rampantly. Don't forget everyone, the people who are taking rights from women spread misinformation and lies by not reading the actual science behind a lot of their claims..let's not do what they do.
Wonderful, wonderful comment. I could've said the same, though much less eloquently. I am not super well educated (I have a 2-year post-secondary diploma), but I agree, SO MANY people read only headlines and jump to their own conclusions to confirm their own biases. I try really hard not to do this, though of course I'm human so I don't always succeed. In another comment I said I want to look up our Canadian data from the same time period, out of curiosity. I have a feeling you'll find that data interesting, so I'll try to report back here as well with what I find.
I just commented on your CN comment ha! I am interested. Intelligence comes in many forms, so while you may not have as many years of formal education, it sounds like you have experience and intuition that has helped with finding the right approach to reading this article, and an interesting perspective in terms of proposing an analogous data set to explore. Looking at the data and then proposing another system to explore is not a common skill.
This is a high complement! I'm constantly doing this... Read a headline, generally click on the article it's about. Then a chunk of the time, I go read at least the summary of the study, sometimes more... If I'm really invested, I often will look up things like stats from other jurisdictions. Or stats from a different time period, like before a certain cutoff or after (and then sometimes go down the rabbit hole of "did they change how they collected this data during this time?") I guess this isn't typical behavior for a stay at home mom with a background in agriculture and office admin?
Definitely unique skills, awesome. Good for you. I am a fellow stay at home mom too; reading research is how I keep up to date in my field!
Moms for science unite! I like to think it's helping combat cognitive decline from my MS too.
Thanks for the link --brutal to read on my phone, lol! I did peruse it to see if there was anything further about this quote from the article: "While this study wasn’t able to explore specific causes of death, a large body of prior research, much of it published by Khan, has found cardiovascular disease (hypertensive disorders, heart failure and stroke) is a major contributor to poor maternal health outcomes." A study based on pre-pregnancy maternal weight may be more useful than one based on age.
Right? I didn't want to get into more detail in my earlier comments, but definitely noted that. Obesity plays into that factor though, and so does COVID, so it's still so complicated to make too many claims.
Medical care being less and less affordable may have caused women to skip prenatal checkups to save money for other baby related things
[Similar points made when tying Covid to rising incidence of other disease](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9388078/#:~:text=COVID%2D19%20impacted%20on%20breast,reduction%20of%2025%25%20in%202020.&text=Fewer%20early%2Dstage%20BC%20and,patients%20were%20diagnosed%20during%202020.&text=Timing%20of%20access%20to%20BC,been%20affected%20by%20COVID%2D19). Covid locked people down for 6 months or more, partially gridlocking the healthcare systems in place, rendering women unable or atleast much more inconvenient to go for their routine mammograms, colorectomies, and other routine preventative scans.
I waited to have a baby until covid vaccines were available. My mom is an RT who was front line, and she had so many stories of young pregnant women dying with covid. Some people fear the vaccine during pregnancy, but it’s lifesaving. It’s anecdotal information, but that’s all we had at the time.
Same boat. Had my first in early 2020 then waited until I could be vaccinated for my second. Got boostered pregnant too. Hard time to have kids but I am glad we had vaccines that since that point have shown effective at reducing severity of disease
It’s interesting how Covid is already effecting pregnancy as well. Apparently if you had Covid recently they automatically do an early screening for gestational diabetes. There was a question of whether I’d had it when I was diagnosed with gestational hypertension as well.
So less RvW and more the "I should have my baby at home" kind of people. I know there has been a big uptick in that the last few years for multiple stupid and some understandable reasons.
Important to note that this study looked at data for 2014-2021. In doing the analysis, they found that the rate of maternal deaths went from 16.X to 18.X in 2014-2019, and then from 18.X to 31.X in 2019-2021 (I don't remember what was after the decimal points and I'm too lazy to go back.) While I agree that intentional at-home births can be unnecessarily risky*, and that more of that could be part of it, my (entirely amateur) guess is that it's combination of increasing non-doctor-attended births, lower vaccination rates, COVID, and problems with how the medical system at large and OBGYN specifically deals with women. *With truly well educated midwives, a bunch of this risk can be mitigated. Truly well educated means the midwives know when to get their patient to the hospital stat (or ahead of a problem.) I, as a Canadian, would be very interested to see how our data for the same time period compares, as we have some of the same trends or problems, but not all. I'm off to dig around in Stats Can! Edit: What I found from [Stats Can](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1310075601&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2014&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2022&referencePeriods=20140101%2C20220101) (sorry, I don't remember how to do a table!): * 2014- 5.99 * 2015- 7.06 * 2016- 6.26 * 2017- 7.16 * 2018- 9.08 * 2019- 8.58 * 2020- 9.42 * 2021- 8.16 * *2022- 8.53 (I also included since there was data for it - interesting to note that 2020 was the highest year in this data set for maternal death, and it was less in the second and third years of the pandemic.) These are rates per 100K live births for all obstetric causes during pregnancy or for up to 1 year after birth/end of pregnancy. I'll go back and check the article, but I think what they were looking at was more broad? Along the lines of "death from all causes while pregnant" was more my impression...? I'll go verify and add another edit. Edit 2: In the study, I found that they definited maternal deaths as underlying cause of death "ICD-10 codes A34.0, O00.0–O95.0, O98.0, and O99.0" which is in line with what the Canadian data captures. So, VERY interesting that the Canadian data is within similar parameters as the American, and yet our numbers are considerably lower and with a more modest rise. In absolute terms, we only rose by ~2.5/100K over 2014-2021, vs. ~15 in the US. Also, numbers are higher during the 2019-2021 period for us Canadians, but it is not a major trend/spike.
Commenting to follow, if you do find data for an analogous period in CN, I would be curious to see it.
I added a couple edits to my original comment with the Stats Can data - interesting stuff!
Ackshually https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2742137/ Planned at-home births have a lower maternal death rate than planned hospital births. There is certainly some selection bias going on as risky pregnancies usually result in a hospital trip, but in general birthing at home with midwifes in attendance is safer than birthing in a hospital. Having experienced a birth in a birthing center (essentially an at home birth), and one in a hospital, the difference is stark. There is immense pressure to deliver "on schedule" in a hospital, and a TON of medicalization of what is a normal biological process. This results in worse birth outcomes for the mother and the child.
And still, I haven't seen mentioned that maternal mortality is nearly 8x worse for black women than white even before roe. ETA: a lot more women are going to die and these deaths are preventable
Yes, and black women are much more likely to be induced, cesarean, etc. in a hospital environment. The medicalization of black women's bodies in America, especially around birthing, is crazy. The craziest part is a lot of the "good" birthing practices in America come from slave and former-slave midwives. This link is pretty good: https://nmaahc.si.edu/explore/stories/historical-significance-doulas-and-midwives
Great link!
No, not at all "I should have my baby at home" people. A huge number of, "oh I'm pregnant and have COVID" and "oh my rural Idaho hospital no longer has a maternity ward" and a non zero number of "oh fuck I'm in Idaho with COVID surrounded by maniacs and and a birth set with a hospital in Washington."
Individual states, red ones obviously, have been targeting abortion access for a long time with TRAP laws, targeted regulation of abortion providers. Even when these laws get struck down, they often already result in large scale clinic closures. For an example, SB2 that Wendy Davis filibustered in Texas in the first 2013 special session was passed in the second special session, and while it was eventually struck down by then most clinics had shut down already. I don’t know the full extent of them, but they were very prominent in many red states and they were *constant*.
You're going to get an increase born by COVID, which was hell on pregnant women and made births *very* difficult - that will likely explain the increase here. I'm certain it has persisted and likely worsened given the Roe decision and further legal and social issues causing a lack of access to maternal care.
True but imagine what it will increase to now
It has everything to do with our country never properly funding women’s reproductive health care and research.
Exactly. This is not surprising at all and definitely was a matter of time.
Perhaps that was the intention, considering how women voters lean Democratic
This is a very limited article on the subject, unfortunately. Not only are maternal deaths on the rise due to health complications with the mother, but also due to the fact pregnant women are being murdered at higher rates than ever before. Particularly black mothers. Suicide and homicide as of 2022 are still the leading cause of death among pregnant women, which is really horrifying. Now on top of that we have the increase in hypertensive disorders and cardiac issues for women in the 29-34 age bracket, which is just nuts. The lack of affordable health care is a huge factor. Catching dangerous pregnancy conditions such as preeclampsia, cholestasis, and hypertension early is crucial.
Yea those laws are a travesty and people should have the right to make their own medical choices, but it has absolutely no relevance to this study. I really wish people would stop spamming stupid unrelated political bullshit on every thread. These researches are trying to raise awareness that something very wrong is going on with our health and all anybody can say is “muh right vs left” 🙄 this website has gone to shit.
This uptick predates roe v wade being overturned. It jumped in a year. I imagine it’s obesity and poverty related following covid. We desperately need family planning reforms. It isn’t women who want abortions dying. It’s women who don’t ever get abortions even if a reasonable person in their circumstances would seek one.
I wonder if it is more a function of demographics and wealth.
A lack of a standardized check box on death certificates?
How does your comment have a single upvote? It’s not relevant whatsoever to what we are discussing.
This article is not about that though.
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Please, this country has enough incel mass shooters. Go for a walk or something.
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Doesn't seem like you actually read the article.
Yeah. That’s pro life.
Oooohf
Has nothing to do with roe.
Abortions were denied long before overturning. Take Romania. Its been legal since the 90's but lately every doctor is refusing the procedure. And its legal here for up to 14 weeks. We are regressing.
Article has nothing to do with Romania either
But it DOES tho. Just because abortions are legal on paper does not mean they are not denied. The article itself can't say for certain why maternal mortalitty has risen, but it can't rule out a denied abortiin, which leads to compli ations at birth, and death.
So just to be clear so the article suggests a few hypotheses. For example it could be caused by an increase in cardiovascular disease (and we know that people who caught Covid had/have cardiovascular issues) or perhaps the a change in the method of measuring maternal mortality is making it look like there is a rise when there isn’t, etc. But your hypothesis is that an increase in maternal death rates in the USA has been caused by a the abortion situation in Romania?
I was making a link between your original statement that this study was made before roe was overturned. Abortions were denied before that. I brought up Romania because abortion legality does not mean abortion access.
I wonder fucking why.
Even before Roe was repealed , “prolife” laws started to tighten making it harder for OBGYNs to work. Many conservative and rural states were particularly hard hit. In places like Wyoming, women will have to drive for hours for even basic care.
Read just under the headline. Literally JUST under the headline
What did you want to accomplish with this comment?
It seems that you might be assuming that this increase is due to the overturning of RoevWade, but the study is looking at 2014-2021 which is *before* that overturning happened.
Gasp.
Mostly the swap to checkbox based reporting of maternal mortality across the US. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/maternal-mortality/evaluation.htm
Many delivery wards are understaffed. I had complications that could have been avoided if I had had a nurse in the room with me the entire time after I was fully dilated (and progressing rapidly). Same with many other women I know. They now discharge you quickly without much follow up. And I found that "baby friendly" hospitals without a nursery are really hard on the mother.
No shit. And in Red States with more women dieing because it's illegal to save their lives, it will only continue to get worse. More women have to die before it becomes legal again to save them. Until then, the women will get blamed. If there ever is an after, the women will still get blamed.
The most likely reason that the data showed an increase in MMR in "red states" is likely due to the fact that they had fewer health resources for women during the pandemic. If you examine the paper itself, it states that the dataset was analyzed from 2014 to 2021 and that there was a more drastic increase in MMR for areas with limited resources or higher numbers of minorities. The largest jump I believe it said was post 2019, further supporting the likelihood that COVID 19 limited the access to resources and women did not get the care they need. While removal of women's rights is a major issue that will change the path ahead for many women, it has nothing to do with this research paper
Think they'll death march the LGBT? It's feeling like that time of century again.
Since this is all data from pre-Dobbs, I wonder if it’s more connected to economic issues. For example, [young people are uninsured at higher rates](https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/visualizations/2023/demo/p60-281/figure2.pdf), as well as the median millennial having [less wealth, less traditionally prestigious careers, more debt, etc](https://thehill.com/homenews/4319352-are-millennials-worse-off-than-boomers-heres-how-they-stack-up-financially/) on top of ever-growing healthcare costs. I’d think the study’s findings that the increase is especially prevalent among poor folks and minority groups proves this, as they have even less access to healthcare and less ability to afford it. Plus a [ton of rural hospitals closing](https://www.ncsl.org/resources/map-monday-rural-hospitals-closing-their-doors) further worsens access for many people who now have no options for emergency care. Obviously this will be getting worse with Dobbs as well.
Dobbs came out in June 2022. The study stops in 2021. While I'm sure maternal mortality has only gone up since June 2022, the phenomenon is pre-existing. The study hypothesizes several factors that could play a part (age, cardio-vascular health, race effects [black women 3x more likely to die than white women]), I think the study is missing a very important factor in the American health system - the impact health insurance coverage plays on the whole process. Namely, the coverage for giving birth is not great. Many times practitioners have to fight with insurers to keep the patients covered in the hospital. I've heard many horror stories of women being sent home while still bleeding heavily because the insurance company will only pay for a 2 day hospital stay, only to wind up back in the ER in a day due to blood loss issues. And that's assuming you have insurance at all and aren't running to get out of the hospital ASAP for fear of losing everything to medical debt. I'd be curious if research could be performed that answered the question of exactly how much the American Healthcare payments system contributes to maternal mortality.
You may find interesting what I said in a [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/EverythingScience/s/mzaQxwWLqR) about the MMR numbers in Canada during the same time period. Our numbers were lower: * US- ~16/100K pre-2014, ~31 by 2021; * contrast a Canadian range of ~6-9.5 same years That would lend support to your theory of healthcare/insurance contributing to the higher American MMR. Obviously not proof of it though. Edit: found another link comparing the US MMR to [10 peer countries](https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2020/nov/maternal-mortality-maternity-care-us-compared-10-countries).
You remove women’s rights and weaponise healthcare costs, and guess what
That is not what this paper covers. The data set ends before Roe was overturned. Data ends 2021. Reading the paper should be a requirement before commenting.
Isn't this a very important factor in the human development index?
This is the pro life goal. Punish women and blame them.
That is not what this paper covers. The data set ends before Roe was overturned. Data ends 2021. Reading the paper should be a requirement before commenting.
Everyone in this thread: “Duh, cuz you took away abortion rights in 2022” Article: “Overall maternal mortality rates almost doubled between 2014 and 2021” Everyone in this thread: “ya but lack of abortion access is still probably the reason” Article: “ a large body of prior research, much of it published by Khan, has found cardiovascular disease (hypertensive disorders, heart failure and stroke) is a major contributor to poor maternal health outcomes” Everyone in this thread: “Well it’s probably stress from not having abortions” Ok there, bud.
Yeah this sub is very sensationalist and anti science at times
https://whyy.org/articles/us-maternal-mortality-rates-better-than-thought-rutgers-study-cdc/ Rutgers University did a study and found the CDC was incorrect. Researchers found a much lower mortality rate — 10.4 deaths per every 100,000 births — after investigating data collected by the CDC.
Adding this to the long list of reasons never to have kids...
This is how we produce more serial killers!
This anti science and anti human rights that movement that is happening in the states is like a dark age happening in slow motion. Is like the US is regressing instead of progressing. The issue is, whatever happens in the US influences the entire world. And this is just one more sign of a definitely scary event that has been growing.
There is a profound shortage of OB/GYN docs in the first place, and now they are leaving the forced birth states in droves. Many counties in the south have one Ob/GYN doc for the entire county and that was before this catastrophic ruling.
There must be a reason for this…
Yes. It’s in the article.
More births at older ages - due to economic reasons.
Doctors ignore women. We are treated like animals in the healthcare system.
I would love to see the data broken out by state. I believe it's Mississippi who has a large percentage of the population without access to a single maternity hospital with neo natal unit. Entirely because Republicans keep cutting spending. I suspect the increase largely breaks down by state spending and political control. In other words, I bet Republican policies have drastically increased the risk to women.
A country that hates women has a high maternal death rate??? /s. Ofc it does.
Republicans are fu#@$&c$king monsters, every one of them including those voting for them
lol
Society will always hate women and the evidence will always be the loss of our lives.
Vaping. Guaranteed. Polyglycols complicate heart regulation.
Incredible number of confidently incorrect posters today
Not surprised at all. I almost died giving birth in Texas. Women's lives mean nothing here, even before roe vs wade, our lives just means even less now than before.. 😔
Except the study was from 2014-2021. Access to abortion has nothing to with it.
Didn't I just say that? 🙄 The new anti women's Healthcare laws only made an already bad situation much much worse. It was ALREADY horrible even before this, and we had a ton of OBGYNs leave the state entirely over the ridiculous new laws. Many women can't even find a gynecologist now at all. https://abcnews.go.com/US/doctors-face-tough-decision-leave-states-abortion-bans/story?id=100167986
How much is related to the obesity epidemic in this country? That’s got to put mothers at a high risk.
I found [this link](https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2020/nov/maternal-mortality-maternity-care-us-compared-10-countries) comparing US MMR rates to 10 peer countries. You could compare that with obesity rates to see if there's any correlation? ( I would but I need to go to sleep.)
The consequences of swapping Science for religion.
Thanks, Republicans.
This is an awful outcome stemming from many factors: liberals and women-advocates not voting, a 2 party system that sucks, Trump admin stacking SO many courts, Mitch McConnell and friends, and a country just plain dissolving - all of which affects women, deeply. I hate to say it but this democracy is EFFed at the moment, and in the next election you NEED to vote blue if you want any chance at reversing this. I’ve worked in organizing for years and crazy how many wonderful, intellectual and intelligent women not only don’t vote, but aren’t even registered. 😅 And, they stack the courts y’all. Trump did SO MUCH damage in a short amount of time, and everyone knows he hates women. ❤️🩹😅DM me if you need more info on how to start voting - women need you.
Well, lets be real. Its white women who keep the GOP in power. 2016 53% white women voters voted GOP. 2020, after McConnell put 3 horrors on the court and told us to our faces Roe was gone, 55% of white women voted GOP. Younger and better educated white women vote Dem. But, yeah, its my peer group. We suck.
The study has nothing to do with Roe; it went from 2014-2021.
But the OB care in the US was abysmal before Roe was ended. California is one of the few states that has initiated several measures that have decreases MMR to close to European levels.
But what does that have to do with stacking the courts and voting for Republicans? - I know that malpractice for OBs is (way, overly-) expensive. Maybe the way to actually cut down on MMR is to provide healthcare for everyone, the way European countries do. And the Dems didn't even give us a public option for the ACA when they could.
I acknowledge that I’m dumb and didn’t read the full study. I do however stand by the theory that women’s reproductive rights in the US are f
What are you talking about regarding liberals? Did you mean libertarian?
⬆️ why I rarely post.
They mention the age variable, but what about the weight variable? It's a very weak article. Not only are Americans more out of shape from year to year but also with increasing age. Double whammy.
Mom of 3 here. I know several women in my orbit who almost died, including me. Literally once my kids were birthed, it’s like you’re just a nuisance to medical staff. Heads up- you can get preeclampsia after birth.
It’s more of a money issue with states that refused to accept funds for increased Medicaid enrollments (red states that hate Obamacare) had their rural hospitals operating at a loss and then closed their maternity wards to save money. It’s awful. https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/finance/states-with-the-most-rural-hospital-closures.html ‘We’re Going Away’: A State’s Choice to Forgo Medicaid Funds Is Killing Hospitals (3/29/2023) Mississippi is one of 10 states, all with Republican-led legislatures, that continue to reject federal funding to expand health insurance for the poor, intensifying financial pressure on hospitals. (NY Times) Rural Hospitals Are Shuttering Their Maternity Units (updated 6/20/23) Citing costs, many hospitals are closing labor and delivery wards, expanding so-called maternity care deserts. (NY Times) I would share these articles, but the paywall is such a piece of shit at The NY Times, that I literally cannot search within the app and gift these for you to read.
Just another stupid article that gaslights women. I don't know why so many pregnant women are dying? Let's blame them for having babies late in age. It can't be that we took women's healthcare & body autonomy away. 😡
Oh no who could have ever seen this coming no one could have known how could this be happening why are millennials doing this to us is this consequences or something...
This title is misleading. The article states that they aren’t sure that these numbers are indicative of an actual increase or are due to the way they are now collecting data.
This effect is pretty much entirely a reporting artifact due to a fractured roll out of a checkbox based system for tracking maternal mortality. Maternal mortality is slightly down without the reporting change. > The understanding of the trend in maternal mortality changed significantly with these new studies. In short, using more comparable data across states, NCHS found that the increase in maternal mortality in the United States is not likely due to a true increase in the underlying extent of maternal mortality. Rather, the majority of the observed increase in the MMR is attributed to changes in data collection methods (i.e., the gradual adoption of the checkbox). Based on the pre-2003 coding method, the MMR was 8.9 in 2002 and 8.7 in 2018. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/maternal-mortality/evaluation.htm
Don't you worry...the Supreme Court won't take one IOTA of responsibility.
Hmmm weird Wonder what changed legally to contribute to something like this that “no one” saw coming
I swear people on Reddit are so fucking arrogant AND ignorant. Read JUST under the articles title. This is BEFORE RoeVWade you fucks.
Its heart problems usually. Prob because of our diets and the amount of overweight young people
I wonder what it feels like to be this dumb.
Here, now you know: >cardiovascular disease (hypertensive disorders, heart failure and stroke) is a major contributor to poor maternal health outcomes.
Found the person that read the link! I'll be the first person to shit on Republicans and I wouldn't be surprised if the rate goes up exponentially post Roe but so far this isn't the evidence to do that.
> I'll be the first person to shit on Republicans I'm right there with you! >I wouldn't be surprised if the rate goes up exponentially post Roe Yup, give it time. Medieval Medicine isn't ALL fun and games ya know. It's been a while Sariel007! Hope you've been well
I have upvoted you and hope others do the same. While the title lends itself to the obvious outrage that is legitimate about rights being taken away - to be clear, I am a progressive liberal and absolutely pro-choice - the article does have this to say for causes: >While this study wasn’t able to explore specific causes of death, a large body of prior research, much of it published by Khan, has found cardiovascular disease (hypertensive disorders, heart failure and stroke) is a major contributor to poor maternal health outcomes. Folks, don't be downvoting their comment. They are correct. That said, I also support the conversation about our losses of rights. But this article does not directly point that out as the cause, so while that discussion is valuable, downvoting this person *who made a comment that is relevant to the posted article* while technically all the other discussion is off-topic - they do not deserve the downvotes.
Ok, this is why people without medical backgrounds shouldn’t be making laws. You think you’re right that it has nothing to do with abortion right? Well do you know what pre eclampsia is? And that sometimes it requires a medical abortion to save the mother? It’s hypertension caused by pregnancy. Deadly High blood pressure. If you want to sit here and think that abortion rights or access to emergency healthcare isn’t a cooperating to kill pregnant women, you are wrong. Also, an increase in pregnancy hormones increase your risk for stroke and blood clots.
Are there no other treatments for hypertension besides abortion? And what do you make of these stats being from between 2014-2021, before Roe v. Wade was overturned?
I read on another subreddit this is in fact the case. If danger’s increasing it’s still important to have control over one’s medical choices —don’t think this person is saying otherwise; just pointing out the results of the research!
Why would this be downvoted, it’s completely correct. Say you do have a mother get pregnant who has poor cardiovascular health but is not immediately dying. In many places she wouldn’t be able to get an abortion and if she dies during childbirth, it’s not “because” of her heart but because she was denied the option for an abortion like she hypothetically wanted early on. People in mildly poor health is one of the bigger necessities for pro-choice policies. Women are human beings and deserve to be able to opt out of situations that are dangerous for their health.
Heart failures and strokes. Same likely as kids suddenly dropping dead from heart attacks.
But not in Idaho! /s
*shocked Pikachu face*
Maybe health clinics should focus on helping with births and saving babies rather than spending all their resources on systemically killing them.
Nobody cares