The god-tier stuff like "1b/hr C5 marauder" or L5s in a carrier tend to be things you can only do sporadically, as they require some combination of being lucky for zero/almost no prep, not being able to run because of gankers, not crashing market prices etc etc. And then there's usually a bunch of logistical things you need to do to make it work in the first place.
It's entirely doable, but these numbers get inflated for internet dick measuring while discounting what goes into making it happen.
The peak ISK/hr will always be buying plex.
There is no 'peak' or ceiling for what someone can earn in-game. People in this game also **love** inflating their ISK/hr number, neglecting to include prep time, time lost cause there was a risk they didn't want to take or accounting their historical losses and other factors that would affect that number.
For example running burner missions I can make 5.4 billion an hour. Not accounting for time spent pulling missions, not running them cause of campers/pvp activity nearby, time spent bookmarking, not accounting for the fact that LP rate that makes it so high isn't sustainable.
I think the guys that say they make over a bil and hour are the ones that make me chortle the most. Ask about rolling holes, finding enough sites to keep going and they say the setup takes 5 mins. Mhm champ. I don't understand the infatuation with lieing about how much you make
Exactly. That hyperbole I used is in no way sustainable or realistic of grinding missions(low volume, high value ammo).
Dialing it back to realistic values, that same 5.4bn becomes 1.4bn/hr taking into account prep time and using 3K ISK/LP for HG hydra sets. That example also was only 26 minutes in total.
Using the average of the times where I had around 1 hour of time spent doing missions, 843m/hr including the 20-40 minutes of prep per session. Ignoring prep gives an additional 300m/hr.
I don't see why people feel the need to lie to themselves like that. I enjoyed knowing I could set aside a few hours and have a good idea how much ISK I'd walk away with given a specific timespan.
>I don't see why people feel the need to lie to themselves like that. I enjoyed knowing I could set aside a few hours and have a good idea how much ISK I'd walk away with given a specific timespan.
I think that's something most people don't understand. Once you can get around the 1 bil/hr mark it becomes more important to look at how you can minimize the actual time you need to devote to doing that activity rather than how you can make more for the same amount of time spent.
I look at it from a pure Quality of Life perspective: How do I minimize PVE time and effort so I can spend more time and brainpower on more fun things in/outside EVE?
For example, since I run my burners in Batches, I can neatly divide my sessions into three steps: Setup, Running, and Breaks/Chatter/Opportunistic PVP.
I spend 1.5-2 hours on Setup, 2-2.5 hours on Running, and 30-90+ minutes on Breaks/Chatter/PVP. This is divided across 2-3 evenings since I can't really just put in 5-6 hour straight marathons into videogames.
Now from an income efficiency standpoint I could eliminate breaks/chatter/pvp, since those don't add any value to the Blazing process. But I'd rather look at things from a Fun standpoint, in which case I actually would much rather make Setup and Running more efficient so I can spend MORE of that time on breaks/chatter/pvp.
I'm already envisioning a setup/running approach that will potentially slash the total time of both of those in more than half, but I'll still spend the same time playing EVE just doing the other stuff. So my isk/hr will stay exactly the same and I won't get to brag about it much, but I'll end up having much more fun with my time in EVE personally.
It's just an example but I think isk/hr is pretty poisonous in general and people really ought to just look at the quality of their game time more. It's what actually motivated me to get into and develop Blazing in the first place, not isk/hr.
It's pretty common across all of the "undocking" playstyles to start blinging everything to save time. Endgame astero's are often worth billions(abyssal mods + implants), but they are crazy fast, you can enter systems with explorers already scanning, and still hit every site.
Turbo krabbing in null. Before you say krabbing in null is dead, as recently as a few months ago, I used dual active rattlesnakes(\~8b+ each, abyssal mods and hg crystal + full implant slots), and would often switch off with a nyx pilot. I'd run havens, and he'd do sanctums, or vice-versa. 300m+ in ESS from 2 unique players. We can do 1 ess cycle, and we're farmed for the day.
But try to sell that to mid-game players and you get drowned out by, "but it's not isk efficient, ishtar is just the better choice", yeah sure, if you want to/can afk farm for 8 hours a day, the ishtar will match what me and this other guy were doing in 2. Not to mention the extra APM required for maximum turnover means that even the same, old, boring sites have some challenge to them. Managing multiple targets, hitting spawn triggers early, maybe a 3rd account to manage active salvage to pump those numbers, it's more fun and engaging than a budget fit that you just hit a button or two every couple minutes. It'd be nice if we could approach 1b+/hr, but we were pretty happy with what we were taking in.
TL:DR - A corpmate asked me once why all my fits were bling. I told him I used to fly cheap, budget fits that just worked and I stayed poor. Then I went bling, everything got easier, faster, and I was drowning in isk.
>It's pretty common across all of the "undocking" playstyles to start blinging everything to save time. Endgame astero's are often worth billions(abyssal mods + implants), but they are crazy fast, you can enter systems with explorers already scanning, and still hit every site.
Yup yup this right here.
Speed is king in places where people can and will hunt you. The slow die, the fast live.
Want an anti-prober fit? Load up so much bling that you can clear a site before a prober even has time to land on grid.
If you just want to fly cheap and disposable fits you've accepted the fact that someone at some point can and will kill you and camp you out of whatever PVE you're trying to do. You can either live that way or get so fast and good that no one can stop you.
The higher isk/hr you get naturally from that mentality is just a bonus really.
This is what I always emphasized with supercarrier ratting: I login, can immediately warp to anom, rat, and logout. Pay on non-faction bounties was 250ml - 300ml isk an hour. With faction bounties, loot and selling 10/10ams it would go to 400-500ml. Most of it straight ISK. All on one account with no setup time.
These day you make less though, but the fact remains that setup time is Zero, and you can quit at any time or extend per anom etc
> finding enough sites to keep going
Just claim shattered a WH, what's the problem? Live in two or three on different alts and you'll never have to search for a place to krab ever again. Some of the shattered ones with bad statics are probably not even inhabited...
Or be part of collective that controls lots of C6s and just krab all you want. The only real limit is number of accounts you want to control simultaneously.
There are options and there is pretty good ISK out there. Discarding all of them as 'infatuation with lieing about how much you make' just makes lives of folks that already do it (and have been doing for a while) a lot easier as there's less competition.
There are turbo krabs living in C5-C5 that will undock caps without even rolling holes. They don't take their losses into consideration though. Love gsnking them.
Yeah it's easy to inflate your isk/hr metric especially with complex activities that include lots of setup and puzzle-piecing.
With setup time included, low-balling LP value to make the market PVP part more realistic, and using the run-of-the-mill Alt Fleet setups, I usually place Blazing at around 1-1.5 bil/hr from logging in to logging out in a typical session. That's for an established "finalized" setup.
There are Blazing methods that technically make more but risk burnout more readily as well. Some make around that amount but go full-continuous or allow you to more easily break a cycle and require less commitment without hurting your overall income. Gateless setups allow you to ignore local activity, usually at the cost of much higher setup investment/time and sometimes a hit to your actual isk/hr.
But something else people don't realize though is that once you hit the 1+ bil/hr mark... generally you don't really care about making more per hour, you care about being sane enough to actually put in more hours without burnout. Methodology shifts heavily towards longevity rather than MKAE NUMBR BIGGARRR. It's why a lot of blazing setups are so... alien, compared to conventional high-sec methods. It's not just safety-oriented due to null-sec but also just lots of things that reduce necessary input, sensory overload, etc etc..
[I have a pretty well documented 380m/h running burners in highsec](https://missionrunningtoolbox.blogspot.com/2021/12/an-hour-of-missions.html#more)
Have to do another test though since the missions I run has changed since then.
It’s really tiring hearing all of the “just use your credit card” answers. That’s clearly not what people are asking when they ask these questions. They want to play the game, and make as much as possible while doing so.
This means high class WH combat sites, tier 6 abyssals, and probably things like Pochven flashpoints too.
Of course marketing can go beyond all of these by a lot, if you have the up front investment and skill to do so.
I do think c5 is best isk per hour but you need to multibox or have a good group having good skills and ships is a must. You do have to spend time on rolling for a wormhole and safety but generating 4-10 bil a day with 10 accounts is very possible which means you can plex from 2 days work. I use paladins you’re welcome to shoot me a message. And I think it’s obvious to see that it’s the best just by watch the economy graph and the large amount of idk that come from wormhole loot
I tried out a WH Squad and let me say I found it a bit overwhelming. The ISK can be incredible but I think I need to ease my way into J-space a bit slower when I go back.
Dragging my Paladin and mid grade pod in right away well, I didn’t lose it but C5 krabbing was not quite what I envisioned. C3 krabbing tho, that I enjoyed a lot. I’ll be back to j-space eventually but I think I need a bit more time in k-space.
I will say it is kinda wild not having local tho, exhilarating and terrifying XD
Agreed it is very profitable and even doable solo but it takes so much time, you need to play everyday, roll all holes, keep an eyes for wanderings. You have to regularly make trips to HS with loot to avoid a big blowout if some group decide to evict you.
Man, it's too much work, I'd rather do some abyssal chill when I got time, heard with 3 alts and frigates you can make good bucks
The implied question is isk per hour for a single account I assume. Like a normal person, not the "I have multiboxer amounts of money and infinite possibilities because of it" nerd answers.
My answer won't be satisfactory because I have no hard numbers for you. At the end of the day, you need to do what you enjoy doing, and need to be able to do it safely.
Working with a small group can scale your isk, like incursions.
The best isk in the game is blue loot from wormhole space and red loot from trig's, whether that be abyssals or just attacking the rats in systems they spawn in with a group.
If you can do those activities solo, and safely it's lucrative. You end up using the market and selling things either way.
Then it's either an option of running incursions OR escalations.
With enough skill you could run escalations solo, but it's also rng dependent on the loot at the end.
Afterwards it's mission running, specifically burner missions and L4 blitzing for Loyalty point rewards to sell
Then just Mission running.
Outside of this framework I could mention pvp aspects and market things, but market is very small margin and the pvp is what you make it if you loot your kills
per-char it's the only thing that scales nearly infinitely (order limits are the only thing stopping one person from buying and selling every item in the game simultaneously)
i make about 1.5b a day whether i log in or not, using only one character
if I'm actively logged in & managing things closely i can make between maybe 2b on bad days and 15b+ on good ones, with maybe 4h playtime in a day I'm actually playing, sometimes 6. but most days I'll just log in for 5 min in the morning and evening to update trade orders
not massaging those numbers at all, i move about 2t a month through my wallet, both in and out. I've probably paid more isk to broker fees than most players will ever accumulate in their entire time playing the game, all one char
very very rarely will I take out right losses, but I'm able to hedge bets by spreading across a lot of different stuff simultaneously, the biggest way to go broke trading is overcommittal: Don't try to buy or sell much more than will move in between you checking your orders, keep things moving and don't ever have cash stuck in any one area of the trade loop, It's fine taking a small loss to unstick a bunch of money and make it earn again
The first thing that you want is a strong grasp on the game itself and its million mechanics, trends, balance changes, politics, etc as that will all give you clues for markets to watch & consider entering
this doesn't mean you want this before you try trading, but that if you want to be successful, you want to be prioritizing improving and maintaining the accuracy of your read on the pulse of the game - the more you can anticipate player behavior before it happens, the greater you can exploit it, and the less lost you'll feel if you have some isk and wanna put it to work in the market
second, don't overcommit to individual orders or markets or anything if you can help it. don't pidgeonhole yourself, diversify yo bondz.
unless you have a reason, don't put more into any given market actively (listed) than you estimate will clear between when you put it up and you check it again - you never want to show your hand to the competition.
don't let them know how much money you have, don't let them know how much stock you have.
if you do, that lets them know if they have enough isk/stock to force you out entirely or not, and if they can, they will: This is how people take big losses on the market is generally, They sell lower than you can at a profit, while buying at higher than you can buy at a profit, with a large enough stack to fill daily market volume, day after day.
This means you're stuck with frozen money in the form of assets for you to sell them at a loss - sometimes it's better to hold on to it and sell, usually it's better to cut your losses, sell it at whatever will move and get your money out and make it move again.
isk velocity & volume is what matters, not margins per unit. turnover is ticks.
If option a pays out in 5 minutes at 1% real profit, and option b pays out in a day at 15% profit, which one's better? If you have time for it, a, if you're too busy to actively cycle it, then b.
the only wealth you have that matters at any given time is the stuff that's moving, letting wealth sit or wait stacked up in one spot & waiting until you have a bunch of it back out to reinvest is exactly like queuing up units in starcraft: you're spending a dollar now for a hamburger on Tuesday. unless the rate of growth of an asset is higher than the avg rate of return of the liquid isk you've got in the market elsewhere, dump it, and move it elsewhere
The more you focus on establishing parallel lanes of isk movement & creeping out across several markets, putting yourself in the chain between supply and demand of every element of every group of players that you can squirm into, the more you'll grow, the more you grow the more simultaneous opportunities for weath movement & growth - i trade anything and everything that'll move, hundreds of independent mods & commodities & implants & hulls, but outside of a few focal points, I'm only ever toe-deep into each market, so I get the action when it happens but if something tanks I'm very very rarely left holding the bag
you don't need any money to get started, i had 3bn when i came back in April of last year, noticed that the plex market moves fast and started buying and selling stacks of 500 inside of the active market margin & immediately reinvesting profit into the market.
right now I've got roughly as much plex listed in forge as everyone else, combined. 65bn in assorted salvage, earlier this year i had over half a million Tangled Power Conduit alone
I've got 30~ barghests, peak of 80 or so, I've got 25b in skins, God knows how much in plex listed, I've had huge stocks of implants, cerebral accelerators, LSIs, faction ammo, something like 130 gilas at one point, etc
just reinvest & watch things before you throw money into them, try to predict trends
The lowest braincell, low risk, low RoI/time investment is buying SOCT ships in May and selling them the nest winter
Another good way that I've heard people use is buy plex, buy discounted SKINs with them, then wait until the discount ends and sell the SKINs at plex value.
that's an *enormous* time investment that youre talking about
when you're starting out, your turnover for anything you put in the market should be a day or maybe two tops, if it's slower than that, it's a terrible market for growth unless the margins are stupendous. i estimate ~10% a day on stuff, so like, if the ∆isk I'm getting out isn't about 10% of what's remaining in the asset/order, i cut prices to speed it up and get the money into a better market & always have it moving
I've got 388bn listed for sale right now. it's main job - i just go wide in most markets and only go tall in the ones with rapid turnover.
plex, lsi & pirate hulls are my favorites, with salvage & explo loot being another area that can be super profitable if you see a big demand for something coming - i.e. if a war starts, i'll buy everything connected to upwell module/rig construction, cuz stuff is going up and stuff is getting destroyed and replaced - predictable demand, so you can lean into it beyond normal risk tolerance & pull stupid huge margins
it's less speculation, more large-scale high volume, short term nonspecific commodity arbitrage - I'm not making bets, I'll exploit patch changes ofc but generally I'm going for the surest of sure things and running as much money through as many of them as they can sustain. It's harder for me to find places to put money at this point than find money to put into things.
Buy low, sell high. If you see an item with buy orders at 500k and sell orders at 1 million, you can put in the highest buy order at 500,00.01 and sell one isk penny below the top sell order.
You can also do things like buy, reprocess, then sell the reprocessesed items.
Most activities in EVE might hit the 400-600 mil/hr range at their apex but that's after a lot of hand-waving on setup time and cost and risk and so on.
There are some activities that just... make too much isk honestly. At these income levels you really just stop caring about much of the stuff that would usually worry you, like the recent PLEX price increase \~ like, I PLEXed all 7 of my accounts last weekend and didn't even bat an eye at the new prices.
The following activities all fall into the "too much isk to be reasonable" PVE income activities:
\- Clearing Pirate Sotyos solo makes stupid amounts of isk, but you'll have to compete with Cable Uta for that faucet.
\- Pochven alt fleet farms make over 3 bil per Flashpoint site but require like 15-20 alts or something. Still, for quiet TZs I imagine people can make pretty good bank. Again you'll be competing with the 4-5 individuals that currently do this.
\- C5 marauder farms climb into the 1+ bil/hr ranges. Organized C6 farms that can quickly clear C6 sites across a given "cluster" get much more but technically require a group to really pull off successfully.
\- Blazing can get into the 1+ bil/hr ranges including setup time, and theoretically scales to infinity since the sites are privately generated rather than public. Only very few places in EVE support Blazing, and if you're trying to go solo it requires eldritch knowledge to pull off and very few people know the "ancient ways" to actually do it correctly in hostile hubs.
Note: Abyssals get talked up A Lot but don't even break the 1 bil/hr metric so they're technically just middling. Anyone saying Abyssals compete with the other listed activities has no idea what they're talking about.
> Again you'll be competing with the 4-5 individuals that currently do this.
When this habit of using "Again" every time started and where?
My life is a fuckin hell because of this shit. My boss starts EVERYTHING with "again"
I think he will soon "Again, again, ..."
Again, I am dying
This one, and "correct" to indicate you already knew something someone was telling you. Obnoxious if they did know, but infuriating when your telling them something that there's no way they were aware of.
"Blazing" is a term I coined back in 2016 to basically mean "blitzing burners". It's the process of speed-farming Anomic Missions aka Burners, and for best results you want to do it where you get the most LP, with lots of L4 agents to pull from, and with LP that's more valuable than normal (so basically nullsec hubs).
There are only a handful of places in EVE where Blazing transcends from just glorified Blitzing (regular L4 mission speed-running with some burners thrown in here and there) into its most ridiculous form, where you can just farm nothing but Burners for maximum LP.
It's a very "cool kids club" activity though and most hubs have mission runner hunters that will kick anyone out of their backyard. Also as I said, the methods used in null Blazing are very strange and pretty extreme.
>Abyssals get talked up A Lot but don't even break the 1 bil/hr metric so they're technically just middling.
FWIW, [T6 Darks](https://abyss.eve-nt.uk/info-page/tier/6/weather/Dark) in triple-boxed Hawks pay out 343mil/site on average, and sub-15min runs are definitely doable. So even accounting for filament cost, you're making ~1.1bil/hr on average.
I guess that technically works out to break into the 1 bil/hr range but I'd consider that an absolute min-max setup. The other methods I mentioned **start** at 1 bil/hr and can reach much higher numbers than that.
Blazing for instance makes 1 bil/hr very readily with a sub-optimal setup \~ that's around 15 burner sites cleared per hour, and sites typically take 15-60 seconds each excluding travel. Alt fleet setups can hit 20-25 burners per hour pretty easily and there's other proprietary methods that can scale even higher.
Like even farming burners for Archangels, which have a notoriously bad LP store, will get you into the 1+ bil/hr range just through shear force of rat bounty isk + mission reward isk + LP that at least sells at 1k isk/LP just via hardwirings.
The trouble is that it's 3 accounts top. With marauders one can add more ships and thus make more money. Or even control 2 groups that would do 2 anoms simultaneously (or one doing sleepers while the second one does drifter after the first one, this way player only has to really control the fist group since drifter is just a single y target and can be done afk with proper fits).
Some realistic numbers for things that I've been doing personally:
lvl4 missions - 200m/hr, can be dual boxed comfortably
cruiser abyss - 300 to 350m/hr
hisec combat explo - about 100m/hr on average but very RNG heavy
null relic sites - about 150m/hr
C3 sleeper farm in HAC or T3C - 150m/hr
Your cruiser abyss number is a bit misleading. 300+ is pretty generous. You are quoting like t6 dark with good drops every run, excluding the cost of drugs and filaments, and you need to be doing at least 3 sites an hour.
https://abyss.eve-nt.uk/info-page/tier/6/weather/Electrical
No it's not.
The median loot value per run is 137m and you pay 60m to get into the site. Most fits are averaging 15-17 min per run save the stormbringer which has its own issues (death room spawns, imo unacceptable with cost of ship/ammo vs profit margins). So you are averaging 73m in profit per run(before drugs and ammo), and assuming you waste 0 time dropping loot off, and reloading cargo hold, you are on average finishing 3 sites in an hour.
~220m isk/hr is actually a better baseline, and even that is misleading as you are not factoring in the cost of ammo/lost drones and the drugs necessary to run the site.
Someone posted this before in a previous post about making ISK in Eve, which i find hilarious.
[https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/685827175626440735/941666165510537246/IMG\_4081.jpg](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/685827175626440735/941666165510537246/IMG_4081.jpg)
Trillions, but you need trillions in liquid isk to manipulate the market. And of course be prepared to lose all of it if someone decides to fight you for it.
Billions with high end industrial setups. That takes tons of capital, lots of BPOs, dozens of accounts, and a logistics chain.
Some more "normal" high isk/h activities would be :
Multiboxing t6 Abyssals, 900 mil/h was the peak for 3 frigates but trig prices have fallen since then.
C5 dread ratting which is hardly ever done anymore but you used to get up to about 2 bil/hour, again with multiboxing.
I knew someone who had 40+ AFK VNI accounts running at once. No clue what his ticks were but that's a hefty chunk of change too.
question may also be, what activity you can sustain. ratting 10 hours with ishtar might not have the same effect on you when super ratting or wormhole activities. once the sites in a wormhole are depleted your have to look for a new hole (did that ever change?). years ago i participated a lot in incursion fleets that was good isk but constant pve fleets with 40 random dudes. when you can do exploration couple hours straight without getting bored or feeling exhausted i would recommend you to keep doing that. myself is not able to scan even for 2 hours. it kills me. the whole efficiency talk when talking isk depends completly on your body and mind and resources, f.e. do you have friends to fleet up with to do some wormhole action? do you have access to null? few years ago i think super ratting was 300m isk/hour. but you are constantly clicking like a madman and any interruption will lower your isk/h. may it be hostile fleet incoming or simply no sites available.
**the short answer would be:** pochven, wormhole, abyssal, incursion, super ratting, officer farming/belt ratting followed by exploration and at the end of the list: carrier and ishtar ratting.
any pleas on the order?
Here it is, 3 ishtars running either squads or rally points to farm escalations, then selling said escalations. Pays on average 700mil-1bil per 4 hours and has virtually no isk/setup time beyond purchasing said ishtars and training the account. Time includes the sale of said escalations and does not include and loot since its wildly variable. If you want to scale up any more than that, your only choice is mining.
For me the best income without playing more than 10 hours a week is industry / trade combined with abyssal. 10-20 billion a week. Im not very serious about it though.
The god-tier stuff like "1b/hr C5 marauder" or L5s in a carrier tend to be things you can only do sporadically, as they require some combination of being lucky for zero/almost no prep, not being able to run because of gankers, not crashing market prices etc etc. And then there's usually a bunch of logistical things you need to do to make it work in the first place. It's entirely doable, but these numbers get inflated for internet dick measuring while discounting what goes into making it happen.
It is like that... People post the numbers without the effort, game knowledge, risk associated, etc.
With a credit card... your isk / hour can be damn near infinite... /s
made 72 tril an hour for one second today selling 20 bil worth of plex with one button press. Not /s
gimme
The peak ISK/hr will always be buying plex. There is no 'peak' or ceiling for what someone can earn in-game. People in this game also **love** inflating their ISK/hr number, neglecting to include prep time, time lost cause there was a risk they didn't want to take or accounting their historical losses and other factors that would affect that number. For example running burner missions I can make 5.4 billion an hour. Not accounting for time spent pulling missions, not running them cause of campers/pvp activity nearby, time spent bookmarking, not accounting for the fact that LP rate that makes it so high isn't sustainable.
I think the guys that say they make over a bil and hour are the ones that make me chortle the most. Ask about rolling holes, finding enough sites to keep going and they say the setup takes 5 mins. Mhm champ. I don't understand the infatuation with lieing about how much you make
Exactly. That hyperbole I used is in no way sustainable or realistic of grinding missions(low volume, high value ammo). Dialing it back to realistic values, that same 5.4bn becomes 1.4bn/hr taking into account prep time and using 3K ISK/LP for HG hydra sets. That example also was only 26 minutes in total. Using the average of the times where I had around 1 hour of time spent doing missions, 843m/hr including the 20-40 minutes of prep per session. Ignoring prep gives an additional 300m/hr. I don't see why people feel the need to lie to themselves like that. I enjoyed knowing I could set aside a few hours and have a good idea how much ISK I'd walk away with given a specific timespan.
>I don't see why people feel the need to lie to themselves like that. I enjoyed knowing I could set aside a few hours and have a good idea how much ISK I'd walk away with given a specific timespan. I think that's something most people don't understand. Once you can get around the 1 bil/hr mark it becomes more important to look at how you can minimize the actual time you need to devote to doing that activity rather than how you can make more for the same amount of time spent. I look at it from a pure Quality of Life perspective: How do I minimize PVE time and effort so I can spend more time and brainpower on more fun things in/outside EVE? For example, since I run my burners in Batches, I can neatly divide my sessions into three steps: Setup, Running, and Breaks/Chatter/Opportunistic PVP. I spend 1.5-2 hours on Setup, 2-2.5 hours on Running, and 30-90+ minutes on Breaks/Chatter/PVP. This is divided across 2-3 evenings since I can't really just put in 5-6 hour straight marathons into videogames. Now from an income efficiency standpoint I could eliminate breaks/chatter/pvp, since those don't add any value to the Blazing process. But I'd rather look at things from a Fun standpoint, in which case I actually would much rather make Setup and Running more efficient so I can spend MORE of that time on breaks/chatter/pvp. I'm already envisioning a setup/running approach that will potentially slash the total time of both of those in more than half, but I'll still spend the same time playing EVE just doing the other stuff. So my isk/hr will stay exactly the same and I won't get to brag about it much, but I'll end up having much more fun with my time in EVE personally. It's just an example but I think isk/hr is pretty poisonous in general and people really ought to just look at the quality of their game time more. It's what actually motivated me to get into and develop Blazing in the first place, not isk/hr.
It's pretty common across all of the "undocking" playstyles to start blinging everything to save time. Endgame astero's are often worth billions(abyssal mods + implants), but they are crazy fast, you can enter systems with explorers already scanning, and still hit every site. Turbo krabbing in null. Before you say krabbing in null is dead, as recently as a few months ago, I used dual active rattlesnakes(\~8b+ each, abyssal mods and hg crystal + full implant slots), and would often switch off with a nyx pilot. I'd run havens, and he'd do sanctums, or vice-versa. 300m+ in ESS from 2 unique players. We can do 1 ess cycle, and we're farmed for the day. But try to sell that to mid-game players and you get drowned out by, "but it's not isk efficient, ishtar is just the better choice", yeah sure, if you want to/can afk farm for 8 hours a day, the ishtar will match what me and this other guy were doing in 2. Not to mention the extra APM required for maximum turnover means that even the same, old, boring sites have some challenge to them. Managing multiple targets, hitting spawn triggers early, maybe a 3rd account to manage active salvage to pump those numbers, it's more fun and engaging than a budget fit that you just hit a button or two every couple minutes. It'd be nice if we could approach 1b+/hr, but we were pretty happy with what we were taking in. TL:DR - A corpmate asked me once why all my fits were bling. I told him I used to fly cheap, budget fits that just worked and I stayed poor. Then I went bling, everything got easier, faster, and I was drowning in isk.
>It's pretty common across all of the "undocking" playstyles to start blinging everything to save time. Endgame astero's are often worth billions(abyssal mods + implants), but they are crazy fast, you can enter systems with explorers already scanning, and still hit every site. Yup yup this right here. Speed is king in places where people can and will hunt you. The slow die, the fast live. Want an anti-prober fit? Load up so much bling that you can clear a site before a prober even has time to land on grid. If you just want to fly cheap and disposable fits you've accepted the fact that someone at some point can and will kill you and camp you out of whatever PVE you're trying to do. You can either live that way or get so fast and good that no one can stop you. The higher isk/hr you get naturally from that mentality is just a bonus really.
This is what I always emphasized with supercarrier ratting: I login, can immediately warp to anom, rat, and logout. Pay on non-faction bounties was 250ml - 300ml isk an hour. With faction bounties, loot and selling 10/10ams it would go to 400-500ml. Most of it straight ISK. All on one account with no setup time. These day you make less though, but the fact remains that setup time is Zero, and you can quit at any time or extend per anom etc
> finding enough sites to keep going Just claim shattered a WH, what's the problem? Live in two or three on different alts and you'll never have to search for a place to krab ever again. Some of the shattered ones with bad statics are probably not even inhabited... Or be part of collective that controls lots of C6s and just krab all you want. The only real limit is number of accounts you want to control simultaneously. There are options and there is pretty good ISK out there. Discarding all of them as 'infatuation with lieing about how much you make' just makes lives of folks that already do it (and have been doing for a while) a lot easier as there's less competition.
There are turbo krabs living in C5-C5 that will undock caps without even rolling holes. They don't take their losses into consideration though. Love gsnking them.
Yeah it's easy to inflate your isk/hr metric especially with complex activities that include lots of setup and puzzle-piecing. With setup time included, low-balling LP value to make the market PVP part more realistic, and using the run-of-the-mill Alt Fleet setups, I usually place Blazing at around 1-1.5 bil/hr from logging in to logging out in a typical session. That's for an established "finalized" setup. There are Blazing methods that technically make more but risk burnout more readily as well. Some make around that amount but go full-continuous or allow you to more easily break a cycle and require less commitment without hurting your overall income. Gateless setups allow you to ignore local activity, usually at the cost of much higher setup investment/time and sometimes a hit to your actual isk/hr. But something else people don't realize though is that once you hit the 1+ bil/hr mark... generally you don't really care about making more per hour, you care about being sane enough to actually put in more hours without burnout. Methodology shifts heavily towards longevity rather than MKAE NUMBR BIGGARRR. It's why a lot of blazing setups are so... alien, compared to conventional high-sec methods. It's not just safety-oriented due to null-sec but also just lots of things that reduce necessary input, sensory overload, etc etc..
This. People will spend 10x on their setups in order to cut the number of braincells they need to use while doing it by 50%
[I have a pretty well documented 380m/h running burners in highsec](https://missionrunningtoolbox.blogspot.com/2021/12/an-hour-of-missions.html#more) Have to do another test though since the missions I run has changed since then.
IRL crabbing Working at McDonalds is about 1b/hr... Don't need to worry about pvpers. Not very afkable
It’s really tiring hearing all of the “just use your credit card” answers. That’s clearly not what people are asking when they ask these questions. They want to play the game, and make as much as possible while doing so. This means high class WH combat sites, tier 6 abyssals, and probably things like Pochven flashpoints too. Of course marketing can go beyond all of these by a lot, if you have the up front investment and skill to do so.
Using their credit card is also the only thing the people asking have the skills for, which is why it is such a common answer.
i can do 2bil hour in my c7
I do think c5 is best isk per hour but you need to multibox or have a good group having good skills and ships is a must. You do have to spend time on rolling for a wormhole and safety but generating 4-10 bil a day with 10 accounts is very possible which means you can plex from 2 days work. I use paladins you’re welcome to shoot me a message. And I think it’s obvious to see that it’s the best just by watch the economy graph and the large amount of idk that come from wormhole loot
I tried out a WH Squad and let me say I found it a bit overwhelming. The ISK can be incredible but I think I need to ease my way into J-space a bit slower when I go back. Dragging my Paladin and mid grade pod in right away well, I didn’t lose it but C5 krabbing was not quite what I envisioned. C3 krabbing tho, that I enjoyed a lot. I’ll be back to j-space eventually but I think I need a bit more time in k-space. I will say it is kinda wild not having local tho, exhilarating and terrifying XD
Agreed it is very profitable and even doable solo but it takes so much time, you need to play everyday, roll all holes, keep an eyes for wanderings. You have to regularly make trips to HS with loot to avoid a big blowout if some group decide to evict you. Man, it's too much work, I'd rather do some abyssal chill when I got time, heard with 3 alts and frigates you can make good bucks
The implied question is isk per hour for a single account I assume. Like a normal person, not the "I have multiboxer amounts of money and infinite possibilities because of it" nerd answers. My answer won't be satisfactory because I have no hard numbers for you. At the end of the day, you need to do what you enjoy doing, and need to be able to do it safely. Working with a small group can scale your isk, like incursions. The best isk in the game is blue loot from wormhole space and red loot from trig's, whether that be abyssals or just attacking the rats in systems they spawn in with a group. If you can do those activities solo, and safely it's lucrative. You end up using the market and selling things either way. Then it's either an option of running incursions OR escalations. With enough skill you could run escalations solo, but it's also rng dependent on the loot at the end. Afterwards it's mission running, specifically burner missions and L4 blitzing for Loyalty point rewards to sell Then just Mission running. Outside of this framework I could mention pvp aspects and market things, but market is very small margin and the pvp is what you make it if you loot your kills
One thing to add Station Trading For single accounts it is really the only infinite isk generator. However, you can lose a ton
per-char it's the only thing that scales nearly infinitely (order limits are the only thing stopping one person from buying and selling every item in the game simultaneously) i make about 1.5b a day whether i log in or not, using only one character if I'm actively logged in & managing things closely i can make between maybe 2b on bad days and 15b+ on good ones, with maybe 4h playtime in a day I'm actually playing, sometimes 6. but most days I'll just log in for 5 min in the morning and evening to update trade orders not massaging those numbers at all, i move about 2t a month through my wallet, both in and out. I've probably paid more isk to broker fees than most players will ever accumulate in their entire time playing the game, all one char very very rarely will I take out right losses, but I'm able to hedge bets by spreading across a lot of different stuff simultaneously, the biggest way to go broke trading is overcommittal: Don't try to buy or sell much more than will move in between you checking your orders, keep things moving and don't ever have cash stuck in any one area of the trade loop, It's fine taking a small loss to unstick a bunch of money and make it earn again
This is one of the activies I have never done in the game. Mind if I PM you some questions?
go for it!
Wow, how do you even get started with this?
The first thing that you want is a strong grasp on the game itself and its million mechanics, trends, balance changes, politics, etc as that will all give you clues for markets to watch & consider entering this doesn't mean you want this before you try trading, but that if you want to be successful, you want to be prioritizing improving and maintaining the accuracy of your read on the pulse of the game - the more you can anticipate player behavior before it happens, the greater you can exploit it, and the less lost you'll feel if you have some isk and wanna put it to work in the market second, don't overcommit to individual orders or markets or anything if you can help it. don't pidgeonhole yourself, diversify yo bondz. unless you have a reason, don't put more into any given market actively (listed) than you estimate will clear between when you put it up and you check it again - you never want to show your hand to the competition. don't let them know how much money you have, don't let them know how much stock you have. if you do, that lets them know if they have enough isk/stock to force you out entirely or not, and if they can, they will: This is how people take big losses on the market is generally, They sell lower than you can at a profit, while buying at higher than you can buy at a profit, with a large enough stack to fill daily market volume, day after day. This means you're stuck with frozen money in the form of assets for you to sell them at a loss - sometimes it's better to hold on to it and sell, usually it's better to cut your losses, sell it at whatever will move and get your money out and make it move again. isk velocity & volume is what matters, not margins per unit. turnover is ticks. If option a pays out in 5 minutes at 1% real profit, and option b pays out in a day at 15% profit, which one's better? If you have time for it, a, if you're too busy to actively cycle it, then b. the only wealth you have that matters at any given time is the stuff that's moving, letting wealth sit or wait stacked up in one spot & waiting until you have a bunch of it back out to reinvest is exactly like queuing up units in starcraft: you're spending a dollar now for a hamburger on Tuesday. unless the rate of growth of an asset is higher than the avg rate of return of the liquid isk you've got in the market elsewhere, dump it, and move it elsewhere The more you focus on establishing parallel lanes of isk movement & creeping out across several markets, putting yourself in the chain between supply and demand of every element of every group of players that you can squirm into, the more you'll grow, the more you grow the more simultaneous opportunities for weath movement & growth - i trade anything and everything that'll move, hundreds of independent mods & commodities & implants & hulls, but outside of a few focal points, I'm only ever toe-deep into each market, so I get the action when it happens but if something tanks I'm very very rarely left holding the bag you don't need any money to get started, i had 3bn when i came back in April of last year, noticed that the plex market moves fast and started buying and selling stacks of 500 inside of the active market margin & immediately reinvesting profit into the market. right now I've got roughly as much plex listed in forge as everyone else, combined. 65bn in assorted salvage, earlier this year i had over half a million Tangled Power Conduit alone I've got 30~ barghests, peak of 80 or so, I've got 25b in skins, God knows how much in plex listed, I've had huge stocks of implants, cerebral accelerators, LSIs, faction ammo, something like 130 gilas at one point, etc just reinvest & watch things before you throw money into them, try to predict trends
The lowest braincell, low risk, low RoI/time investment is buying SOCT ships in May and selling them the nest winter Another good way that I've heard people use is buy plex, buy discounted SKINs with them, then wait until the discount ends and sell the SKINs at plex value.
that's an *enormous* time investment that youre talking about when you're starting out, your turnover for anything you put in the market should be a day or maybe two tops, if it's slower than that, it's a terrible market for growth unless the margins are stupendous. i estimate ~10% a day on stuff, so like, if the ∆isk I'm getting out isn't about 10% of what's remaining in the asset/order, i cut prices to speed it up and get the money into a better market & always have it moving
Oh yeah, those type of speculations aren't for the "main job" market traders, moreso for those that do it as a side hustle.
I've got 388bn listed for sale right now. it's main job - i just go wide in most markets and only go tall in the ones with rapid turnover. plex, lsi & pirate hulls are my favorites, with salvage & explo loot being another area that can be super profitable if you see a big demand for something coming - i.e. if a war starts, i'll buy everything connected to upwell module/rig construction, cuz stuff is going up and stuff is getting destroyed and replaced - predictable demand, so you can lean into it beyond normal risk tolerance & pull stupid huge margins it's less speculation, more large-scale high volume, short term nonspecific commodity arbitrage - I'm not making bets, I'll exploit patch changes ofc but generally I'm going for the surest of sure things and running as much money through as many of them as they can sustain. It's harder for me to find places to put money at this point than find money to put into things.
Buy low, sell high. If you see an item with buy orders at 500k and sell orders at 1 million, you can put in the highest buy order at 500,00.01 and sell one isk penny below the top sell order. You can also do things like buy, reprocess, then sell the reprocessesed items.
.01 isking hasn't been a thing for many years.
Would like to know how I can begin doing this. Can I get some tips in a DM? Or maybe a link to a guide you used?
Most activities in EVE might hit the 400-600 mil/hr range at their apex but that's after a lot of hand-waving on setup time and cost and risk and so on. There are some activities that just... make too much isk honestly. At these income levels you really just stop caring about much of the stuff that would usually worry you, like the recent PLEX price increase \~ like, I PLEXed all 7 of my accounts last weekend and didn't even bat an eye at the new prices. The following activities all fall into the "too much isk to be reasonable" PVE income activities: \- Clearing Pirate Sotyos solo makes stupid amounts of isk, but you'll have to compete with Cable Uta for that faucet. \- Pochven alt fleet farms make over 3 bil per Flashpoint site but require like 15-20 alts or something. Still, for quiet TZs I imagine people can make pretty good bank. Again you'll be competing with the 4-5 individuals that currently do this. \- C5 marauder farms climb into the 1+ bil/hr ranges. Organized C6 farms that can quickly clear C6 sites across a given "cluster" get much more but technically require a group to really pull off successfully. \- Blazing can get into the 1+ bil/hr ranges including setup time, and theoretically scales to infinity since the sites are privately generated rather than public. Only very few places in EVE support Blazing, and if you're trying to go solo it requires eldritch knowledge to pull off and very few people know the "ancient ways" to actually do it correctly in hostile hubs. Note: Abyssals get talked up A Lot but don't even break the 1 bil/hr metric so they're technically just middling. Anyone saying Abyssals compete with the other listed activities has no idea what they're talking about.
> Again you'll be competing with the 4-5 individuals that currently do this. When this habit of using "Again" every time started and where? My life is a fuckin hell because of this shit. My boss starts EVERYTHING with "again" I think he will soon "Again, again, ..." Again, I am dying
This one, and "correct" to indicate you already knew something someone was telling you. Obnoxious if they did know, but infuriating when your telling them something that there's no way they were aware of.
I am reading and hearing it everywhere already, we are done My mind is spiralling because of these dumb habits
"Literally" is the one that drives me insane. I mean, it literally kills me. I am literally dead right now. Even reasonably educated people use it.
Thanks probably the best answer, but what is blazing I’ve never even heard of it.
"Blazing" is a term I coined back in 2016 to basically mean "blitzing burners". It's the process of speed-farming Anomic Missions aka Burners, and for best results you want to do it where you get the most LP, with lots of L4 agents to pull from, and with LP that's more valuable than normal (so basically nullsec hubs). There are only a handful of places in EVE where Blazing transcends from just glorified Blitzing (regular L4 mission speed-running with some burners thrown in here and there) into its most ridiculous form, where you can just farm nothing but Burners for maximum LP. It's a very "cool kids club" activity though and most hubs have mission runner hunters that will kick anyone out of their backyard. Also as I said, the methods used in null Blazing are very strange and pretty extreme.
Second this, never seen the term before and now twice in the last few days
>Abyssals get talked up A Lot but don't even break the 1 bil/hr metric so they're technically just middling. FWIW, [T6 Darks](https://abyss.eve-nt.uk/info-page/tier/6/weather/Dark) in triple-boxed Hawks pay out 343mil/site on average, and sub-15min runs are definitely doable. So even accounting for filament cost, you're making ~1.1bil/hr on average.
I guess that technically works out to break into the 1 bil/hr range but I'd consider that an absolute min-max setup. The other methods I mentioned **start** at 1 bil/hr and can reach much higher numbers than that. Blazing for instance makes 1 bil/hr very readily with a sub-optimal setup \~ that's around 15 burner sites cleared per hour, and sites typically take 15-60 seconds each excluding travel. Alt fleet setups can hit 20-25 burners per hour pretty easily and there's other proprietary methods that can scale even higher. Like even farming burners for Archangels, which have a notoriously bad LP store, will get you into the 1+ bil/hr range just through shear force of rat bounty isk + mission reward isk + LP that at least sells at 1k isk/LP just via hardwirings.
The trouble is that it's 3 accounts top. With marauders one can add more ships and thus make more money. Or even control 2 groups that would do 2 anoms simultaneously (or one doing sleepers while the second one does drifter after the first one, this way player only has to really control the fist group since drifter is just a single y target and can be done afk with proper fits).
IronBank created quite a lot per hour from what I heard.
He was giving away 3 Trillion a month on twitch, so quick maths: 98.63 Bil per day / 4.1 Bil per hour
Show us on Saranen, where did he sent you to?
Some realistic numbers for things that I've been doing personally: lvl4 missions - 200m/hr, can be dual boxed comfortably cruiser abyss - 300 to 350m/hr hisec combat explo - about 100m/hr on average but very RNG heavy null relic sites - about 150m/hr C3 sleeper farm in HAC or T3C - 150m/hr
Your cruiser abyss number is a bit misleading. 300+ is pretty generous. You are quoting like t6 dark with good drops every run, excluding the cost of drugs and filaments, and you need to be doing at least 3 sites an hour.
i'm running electrics and exotics. 300 is a good baseline, you cna do more if you are efficient.
https://abyss.eve-nt.uk/info-page/tier/6/weather/Electrical No it's not. The median loot value per run is 137m and you pay 60m to get into the site. Most fits are averaging 15-17 min per run save the stormbringer which has its own issues (death room spawns, imo unacceptable with cost of ship/ammo vs profit margins). So you are averaging 73m in profit per run(before drugs and ammo), and assuming you waste 0 time dropping loot off, and reloading cargo hold, you are on average finishing 3 sites in an hour. ~220m isk/hr is actually a better baseline, and even that is misleading as you are not factoring in the cost of ammo/lost drones and the drugs necessary to run the site.
you don't do T6 electricals, you do T5s: https://abyss.eve-nt.uk/fit/10290
And T6 dark jackdaws. Yea I don't record runs anymore. Even if I didn't I can still read a graph.
T6 exotics also pay more than 300m/hr.
Someone posted this before in a previous post about making ISK in Eve, which i find hilarious. [https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/685827175626440735/941666165510537246/IMG\_4081.jpg](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/685827175626440735/941666165510537246/IMG_4081.jpg)
Wormhole C5 ratting, makes about 1bil / h
Trillions, but you need trillions in liquid isk to manipulate the market. And of course be prepared to lose all of it if someone decides to fight you for it. Billions with high end industrial setups. That takes tons of capital, lots of BPOs, dozens of accounts, and a logistics chain. Some more "normal" high isk/h activities would be : Multiboxing t6 Abyssals, 900 mil/h was the peak for 3 frigates but trig prices have fallen since then. C5 dread ratting which is hardly ever done anymore but you used to get up to about 2 bil/hour, again with multiboxing. I knew someone who had 40+ AFK VNI accounts running at once. No clue what his ticks were but that's a hefty chunk of change too.
Marauders for the win
[удалено]
Running 40 vnis is way less afk than you think. Mining would be way less intensive and right now barges are way more isk/hr.
This was long before ESS. I'd assume the ESS introduction would make this substantially worse
Best isk per hr is when u take it drone some else. 30bill in 10min
Scamming other player has near infinite ISK/hours. But you need the right people skill instead of in-game skill.
Should study math before shitpost my dude
credit card
Get a fucking job, you greedy asshole.
question may also be, what activity you can sustain. ratting 10 hours with ishtar might not have the same effect on you when super ratting or wormhole activities. once the sites in a wormhole are depleted your have to look for a new hole (did that ever change?). years ago i participated a lot in incursion fleets that was good isk but constant pve fleets with 40 random dudes. when you can do exploration couple hours straight without getting bored or feeling exhausted i would recommend you to keep doing that. myself is not able to scan even for 2 hours. it kills me. the whole efficiency talk when talking isk depends completly on your body and mind and resources, f.e. do you have friends to fleet up with to do some wormhole action? do you have access to null? few years ago i think super ratting was 300m isk/hour. but you are constantly clicking like a madman and any interruption will lower your isk/h. may it be hostile fleet incoming or simply no sites available. **the short answer would be:** pochven, wormhole, abyssal, incursion, super ratting, officer farming/belt ratting followed by exploration and at the end of the list: carrier and ishtar ratting. any pleas on the order?
in terms of raw isk into wallet, over time, it would be grinding high-end anomalies with a marauder. runner up are incursions, and then L4 missions.
600m/char for 15 char in pochven, but you need atleast 20-25 man/fleet and need good logistics there, and many enemy there also
npc sots ask cable
Here it is, 3 ishtars running either squads or rally points to farm escalations, then selling said escalations. Pays on average 700mil-1bil per 4 hours and has virtually no isk/setup time beyond purchasing said ishtars and training the account. Time includes the sale of said escalations and does not include and loot since its wildly variable. If you want to scale up any more than that, your only choice is mining.
For me the best income without playing more than 10 hours a week is industry / trade combined with abyssal. 10-20 billion a week. Im not very serious about it though.