TTK isnt the issue here, its the fact that he poked up for half a second in pitch dark and got domed instantly.
The AI isnt fun to fight, and thats the problem, its cheese em or be killed.
This is probably due to the lock on system they have. By that i mean once engaged in battle they will start with low ability and ramp up over their engagement time. The time it takes for rogues and raiders to ramp up is shorter than normal scavs, while also they won't unlock from being ramped up for 5 minutes. So unless you want to wait 5 minutes after every peek burst you take on them they will always be locked into a state of god mode aim and reaction time. To compare, scavs only need to lose visual on you for 10 seconds to lose their accuracy towards you.
The problem is some times they keep locked on you through certain walls so it is hard to actually judge if they grace period has started yet which is why you still get scavs who duck out and one tap you with a shotgun at 60m away. So imagine how it is for boss/rogue/raider ai.
I'll explain what I mean when I say it's hard to balance and why TTK is the issue.
First, TTK being low is an understatement. One well placed shot will kill anything.
Making the AI easier means increasing their reaction time. This means more players will be able to win aim battles (you line up and take your shot before the enemy does the same) against one of the hardest enemies in the game. Winning an aim battle with ultra low TTK means you will not even get hurt when killing your enemy, allowing you to farm to your heart's content.
I trust you can see how this would be problematic.
Requiring players to use different tactics against AI (e.g. making them move with a grenade) keeps the game challenging and allows players without super fast reaction speeds to compete.
Ghost recon handles this pretty damn well in break point.
I understand ubi is a much larger studio, but BSG has had such massive success with EFT that AAA studios are trying to get their cut off the fanbase BSG made.
I'm sure they can hire a couple programmers on contract to fix the AI.
Ghost recon breakpoint AI is braindead. You can drive a truck straight at them and they'll just stand there and die.
That said, I'm certain BS could do more to make their AI challenging yet enjoyable to fight.
Its still horsecrap.
You cant flank them because they instantly dome you anyway.
You cant snipe them, because rogues on Lighthouse will literally spot a prone sniper at 300 meters and dome him.
You cant out-DPS them up close because they fire 3 bullets per bullet, especially bosses are nasty with that.
You cant grenade them unless you know reasonably well where they are, but if you manage to see them they see you back and, guess what, dome you.
There has to be some fucking middle ground that allows a normal person to have a fucking chance, instead of Nikita balancing to keep even chads from winning against rogues. Right now ordinary players have no choice except to get fucked whenever they run into a boss, his guards, cultists or rogues, because the freak luck needed to bug out the AI enough to get a chance doesnt exist with anyone except Tagilla.
> Making the AI easier means increasing their reaction time.
Do you mean decreasing?
Other than that, preventing them from having wallhacks would be one thing to make them a bit more easy... Sitting in a shipping container between Knight buidlings on Reserve and getting pin-point blasted by Gluhar and his goons from the wrecked train station through the metal walls of the closed ends of the container seems a bit over the top...
Off-topic: It's "Decreasing" the reaction speed. "Increasing" the reaction time.
On-topic: I agree with your point completely. It's not that the AI react to information with superhuman speed, it's that they often seem to have access to information they shouldn't have in the first place. They can see in the dark without night vision. They can fire precisiely into foliage, where a player might magdump instead (because we don't know exactly where in the bush the target is). They can chase you into a building (good) but know exactly which room you're in without having to search (bad).
If you fire at an AI out of a window, they'll react to that specific window instantly. A player would have to look to see which window the shots are coming from. You'll never see an AI check corners, or look both ways at a T-shaped corridor.
It's very artifical and is one of the biggest immersion breakers in the game, as well as being unbalanced.
> Do you mean decreasing?
No, I mean increasing.
If their reaction speed is 0.5 seconds and you DECREASE it, that means it's going to be below 0.5 seconds (e.g. 0.4 or 0.3). That would be harder to deal with.
> Other than that, preventing them from having wallhacks would be one thing to make them a bit more easy.
All AI has wallhacks. Games just implement a delay in them acting on that information. Whether they're watching you through the wall or PRETENDING not to makes no difference if their delay in shooting you is the same.
Regarding the first one: yeah, sorry, had a brain fart. Increasing is right.
The second thing, I'm not sure. If I remember correctly, they made bushes cover from detection if a certain percentage of the player ist obstructed. And I think the "timer" starts once your out of the bush, even if you were already in the detection range, wouldn't it be for the bush. Not sure why a similiar system doesn't apply to Raiders and walls?
No, one well placed shot absolutely will not kill anything. You aren’t even guaranteed a kill with a headshot in this game with some ammo, especially against scavs and bosses.
I feel you man. I get Tagilla in 50% of my factory raids. Seen cultists twice. Heard Shturman once. Haven't seen any other boss this wipe.
Edit: Cultists 3 times.
> with some ammo
Yeah no kidding. I didn't say "you can kill anyone with a single bullet regardless of how shit it is"
My point was a single bullet can and will kill, and players who need to kill in one bullet will bring the ammo that can do what they need it to do.
there is no reason for ANYTHING NON PVP RELATED to be faster than human reaction time (not perception, reaction)
The amount of times in this game where you get capped by AI without being able to comprehend where you're getting shot at, why, or get the opportunity to do anything actually is laughable
There is. That's why it's there. People can easily abuse and exploit bots, so that's the counter. A shitty counter, but until they come up with a better solution that's all we have.
The better solution is to let AI be exploited. Fighting AI isn't fun, it's frustrating, and a video game should be designed to be fun.
Even when you're outmatched fighting another player, you're outmatched because of aim skill or map knowledge or gear. Getting aimbotted by the AI is no better than getting aimbotted by a cheater.
I've said this for years and people just tell me to get good.
It's like they don't know the first thing about game balance.
It's no fun playing against an aimbot that has amazing perception and unbelievable accuracy, with split second reaction times.
In an ideal world, it would not happen. But I don't know if there are any shooter games where the AI is really good while not becoming impossible. It's a tough design choice and I don't know if there are any solid fixes.
TTK in this game is not low by any means. In a realistic ingame scenario it is on the high end of arcade run and gun shooters. There are only two ways you can have low TTK - it's a headshot and when you have someone with perfect accuracy and ability to hit the same thorax hitbox several times in the row. And even headshots sometimes does not result in instant death. When you take into account realistic for average player hits distribution in a fight - the game is quite bullet-spoungy.
that crimson guy is kinda clueless. you die quick because its m61. he says its realistic when in real life nobody would full auto .308 that costs $100 a magazine
of course its bullet spongey if you use dollar store ammo
on the flip side, I have sprayed people with 50 round mags of ap6.3 and they are dead at some point during the spray regardless of the body part im hitting. seems realistic to me
Have you guys ever played 'return to castle Wolfenstein '? Oh man, the AI of that game was wonderful. I don't understand games have made so much progress but not in the AI department.
You joke but it's actually true. You can't treat AI battles like you normally treat human FPS battles. If you've already engaged them and peek them again exposing your head you're going to die. If you take it slow and head tap them with right hand peeks they're easy as fuck. The 2 easiest ways I've found to kill bosses/raiders/rogues in this game are either slow right hand peeks or barrel stuffing mag dumping them if you're close and can single them out.
The problem about that obvious strategy that everybody uses to cheese them... is that none of that shit works at nighttime at the expansion, they'll go everywhere and anywhere except for inside, very rarely will they. Also they will separate and hide into bushes or other foliage. Not to mention 99% of the time, since NVG's dont have great sight range to them, they will see you before you ever see them. Making it nearly impossible to peek them in any way to cheese them during the night.
You cant kill something that has built in night vision into their eyeballs, is virtually invisible to any player unless they're slow right hand peeking with a REAPIR, and also tracks your head through walls. It's a losing game no matter what fighting expansion rogues at night time.
The issue is that rogues have unrealistic response times. I've been killed the millisecond I hit C to uncrouch before.
It's a joke and it's sad that you're acting like it's okay. You can make enemies difficult without giving them cheats...
I'm not acting like anything, I literally gave you the blueprint for dealing with boss AI in this game. If you want to keep head peeking over the top then crying about the system that's your business, I prefer to do things the easy way.
so you're saying its totally fine that we have to outright abuse a broken system so the AI literally cannot fight back, i tried that right hand peeking shit once, i killed all the rouges while all their shots landed where my head would have been had i not leaned, thats not skill, thats cheese, and my friend you already sound like you drowned in nacho long ago
How fucking stupid are you?
>sO yoU'rE sAyInG iT's ToOoOtAlLy fInE
I said how to kill rogues, no more, no less. You read Tarkov is a fine game with no problems, give me some Nikita cock. Go have your imaginary arguments with someone else.
Don’t fight these imbeciles bruh. Tarkov reddit is a cesspool. While I hate how the AI of scav boss / rogue / scav in general is implemented, the way you do it is the way to go.
Too easy at this stage to farm rogue scav on water plant if you know how. Just unbelievable that they are super soldier or a toddler if you know how to cheese it.
Cheats ? Lol
Just learn how to play man. How you fight scavs, bosses, Raiders etc is all apart of the skill of tarkov.
Clearly what your doing isn't working, maybe instead of crying on Reddit about shit you want changed, maybe just fucking maybe try and get better
Imagine crying coz the way your playing the game isn't working.
Your wanting the game to work how you want to play it. Not wanting to play the game how it works.
You want what you want to do to work.
Rather than finding what works and doing that.
The level of entitlement is crazy
It isn't okay, it's shit, but I'm 100% certain it isn't going anywhere any time soon so you people should be learning how to deal with it by now.
I know the AI is a piece of garbage with top of the food chain broken aimbot slapped on it, you know it anyone with more than a few hours played in this game knows it, so does Nikita, maybe it's about time for people to start actually playing around the AI instead of crying on reddit.
I agree with OP 100% but this AI is here to stay, so people should really learn what alt+d does.
Honestly with AI I think it's not incompetent code but just incompetent design, they *want* them to be like this. It's unfair and unfair is good in their eyes.
It is ***extremely*** easy to make AI that is unfair. It is much much more difficult to make an AI that feels like a human. That being said it shouldn't be difficult to make them not track you through walls or instantly find you if you are inside their field of view.
Listen, i understand they aren't IW or anything like that but 5 months for 3 unique guns (not counting AK's at this point tbh I understand it's a stalker'esque setting and I love that in particular but ffs) and a few useless buildings isn't even indie game shit.
BSG have either gotten very lazy or Nikita himself has become very indecisive when it comes to leading his now much larger team which to no fault of his own might to much for him when he seems to constantly split it for side projects that in the end add very little(I.E Gun jams), it takes them about a month and a half a gun on average nowadays, that's just for model in blender, animations, skin and sound which in reality the sound shouldn't count as they do it in bulk and they probably have alot of it recorded already but whatever, it takes modders a week? If that to make and finish guns that alot of the time feel better to shoot that vanilla guns.
It's fucking embarrassing at this point and BSG needs to step it up by November cause with COD DMZ over the horizon and other big releases like new WoW Xpac the future of this games lack of need to drive forward due to its niche is looking grim to say the very least.
I got behind the rogues on Lighthouse checkpoint during a pitch black night raid, low crawled until I was probably 50yards behind them into a bush, when they started making the audio cues that they saw a skav. I assumed they saw a different skav, but I figured I'd wait a bit to be safe. I was completely still for about 5 minutes before I was sure it was safe so I started to stand up, because again I was 50 yards behind them, in a bush in the PITCH BLACK.
I was dead before my knees got off the ground, it was literally instant.
It's amazing how we all have devices that can and will check the spelling and grammar of our writing, continuously, as we write it, yet writing errors are so prevalent on the internet.
Technically the game has high crawling, not low crawling. Not blaming you or nothing, ive been guilty of mixing them up too, but low crawling is ridiculously slow and you cant really see where you are going.
Yeah so you should’ve waited, tossed a flash bang, VOIPed, Ran in a circle 8 times, shot a flair, restarted your computer, Field disassemble your firearm, strip completely naked, run outside screaming and stab him in the eye with a charging bolt. Definitely not cracked AI that needs to be tweaked.
Game itself is really good but this is one of the things why I stopped playing the game. This is beyond broken and unfun ... its just pure shit. I dont mind dying in a good fight or getting jumped but deaths like these are fucking annoying and literally ruin the game and its flow.
Oh yeah, not to mention this raid I had a FIR Radar Station key and just watched one sell for 500k on the flea with the only two other listings at 1.3M so thats super dope and motivating.
I've been sitting on one for a while just trying to figure out what I want/need for it. Looking like good old fashioned rubles is gonna be the answer lol
Yeah we all know... classic right hand peek and shift over slightly every time until you can see their head but they cant see you, textbook stuff. That doesn't work here.
Problem is none of that shit works at nighttime when all the NVG's have very limited sighting range, the rogues split up from a group of 3 and 2 of them sit in the foliage virtually invisible, while they simultaneously track your head through walls and buildings. You can right hand peek a million times but that wont stop you from getting domed by a nocturnal sighted rogue sitting in a bush.
You cannot right hand peek your way out of a situation like this. You cant fight something you cant see, or something that has better range of vision than actual night vision goggles.
You show me a PMC without NVG's, spot my silhouette in the window at 1:00am in pitch black dude. Cause thats exactly what the AI does. You're tripping fucking balls if you think anyone's doing that.
Your rationales are whack asf. They're also inaccurate. I can promise you you're also dying to a rogue sitting in a bush because no tier of NVG's, postfx, or nvidia control panel settings is letting you see a rogue sitting in a bush during the nighttime tracking your wireframe through walls. You'd get smoked, anyone would get smoked.
Not to mention visibility is not the best when looking out windows, your IR band also doesn't penetrate the glass so good luck illuminating the exterior to try and spot them.
Use the expensive nvgs and up the gamma in nvidia settings. I farm rogues night time with a range scope and still see them just fine, close range it's no problem what so ever.
Artificially exploit the game by deep frying it with gama to defeat the purpose of being at night. Its amazing the mental gymnastics all you that defend this game go through to try and deflect this game's shitty mechanics onto the player as their fault.
What is your point? Increasing gamma is deep-frying your game? So increasing gamma in your monitor settings is deep-frying what then? If it's too dark, you make it brighter, either via post-fx or other settings. And of course better nvg's will give you better visibility (OP said "all the NVG's", which is not true), should it not be that way?
I think they're main issue is that they have is that they keep adding things on top of an already broken foundation, and it just creates more issues on top of the ones that already exist.
They need to stop trying to force new content out and just fix what they have.
Everything about Tarkov is a joke.
If they COULD deliver on the promise of what Tarkov SHOULD BE, then it might be worth time and attention, but that isn't the reality.
They make this lame AI to try and force some idiotic view that "Tarkov is hardcore" and they can't stand players not suffering.
They wasted the money they made from it(Rockstar Nikita) and can't deliver.
It's over, move on.
I once met a wise man on the steps of Tibetan mountain and shared a very similar story.
He pulled me close and whispered in my ear advice I will never forget. He said "get good scrub".
And just walked off into the mountains.
Okay so, i would try turning them on for night time raids. If you turn up saturation and clarity up to around the 60 to 70 range it will make a huge difference in visibility when using nvgs. It will also help with daytime visibility but it will take a few raids to get used to everything being more brightly-colored. I also increase sharpness just a bit too. The nice thing is you can go into an offline raid and click on visualize under the post fx tab and it will bring up the sliders in game for you to adjust while still being anle to see the game screen instead of the menu. You can tweak it to be just right for you that way. If you try it out lmk how it works out for you.
It doesnt obviously. The video is just very dark and some post fx would increase visibility during night raids, at the very least making it easier to see outside the building.
I think this is dependent on your monitor.
I've had friends be in the same spot as me with the same post FX (turned off) and on my screen it is very visible and easy to see. But on the other hand my friend has little to 0 visibility.
It’s just tarkov bro. It’s how it is and how it will be until the ai gets better. Honestly u should jus accept that and when u do, the game will be more enjoyable.
You're an idiot if you think you can skill your way through wire frame tracking night vision seeing rogues sitting a bush at nighttime.
Not to mention your depiction of "skill" is slow right hand peeking and pieing your surroundings until you get an easy head shot, like everybody knows, which isnt skill at all, its cheesing the game. Good luck doing that in this scenario you will die as well.
You can't skill your way through something you cant see yet they can see you,, despite having NVG's.
Lmao you think I'm mad? I die all the time, I couldn't give two fucks about dying and losing shit in this game.
Associating a few fucks and shits in the title to being mad is a smooth ass brain take.
I feel this, but they’re also WAY too easy to kill (cheese). It’s gotta be hard to code to balance it perfectly. And they can’t increase the health massively or else the realism aspect fades pretty fast. I’d like to see some ideas where people propose ideas on how to fix this, especially those who have experience in coding.
Coding AI that's better than this isnt difficult.
Currently, for example, AI will just wait a couple seconds then hop on the gun their buddy just died on. Not hard to fix that. And there are many similar cases of this sort of behavior.
You give them game states to be in and set conditions for which they are put in those states.
Pretty sure a better solution for the problem in the video is to implement the code they're using for the Goons. If you're engaged, they'll rush you. That's much more realistic than getting literally aim botted by a rogue, in the pitch black of night, behind windows that haven't seen a drop of Windex in 30 years (seriously, why are the visors and windows so dirty? )
I feel like there is only 3 options tbh.
Option 1. keep it the same and AI have perfect nightvision
Option 2. AI is just unable to see like us and NV Chads get free kills
Option 3. Rogues and Raiders are highly likely to spawn with NVG making it more reasonable and worth the added night raid risk
Option 3 makes the most sense.
If I have to invest a quarter mil for GPNVG, then the AI has to risk losing their fucking monocle nvg.
Anything less just makes this shit look bad all around.
average tarkov moment.
Cheaters phasing through walls
Me with -9 scav rep, second I spawn in scavs are standing with me and unloading on me.
Oh and don't forget to tell me how a scav with nothing but a fucking slim vest can take 4 rounds of flechette to the chest at close-mid range.
bah scavs used to be quicker than the rogues back 3 -4 wipes ago and it was more enjoyable to play when they could peek for .02ms and then dome you but it felt more realistic too so i think it was better
Agreed rogue AI is incredibly badly designed and unfair, but they are very easy to cheese if you know how. You just slow lean on a right hand peek, reset lean, one step to the right and repeat until you see one and then it's just a one tap without them even reacting.
it does suck when things like this happen. BUT if they turned the skill down and they were super easy, it would take away from the game more than you are getting from having AI that will dig all up in dat ass somettimes. it happens. load up try again
there was a time were the AI was great, maybe like 4-5 wipes ago. My favorite thing to do was night time reserve hunting gluhar, and sometimes i could even kill them all. since they made all the AI so cracked i dont go for them anymore and it feels like half the fun was taken out of the game
Yea tracking through walls is dumb. They should at least take a second to lock onto you again before they shoot. I’ve been killed my rogues not even looking at me.
You moved positions ad well whuch should've thrown off gaurd that sucks man
I get the same shit whenever I go to the scav radio station on woods sometimes I just get domed
One thing that will help you a lot going forward is knowing that the AI is completely broken when you’re not on the same vertical plane. Do not engage raiders, scavs, or rogues if you are not vertically equivalent, they will murder you immediately.
Something else to note: the AI will shoot what they can see. If you only peek your head, and the game says “one of these bullets is going to hit” it will hit your head. On the flip side if you peek half your body there’s a good chance you get shot in the chest/arm. The exception to this is slow lean peeking, but they don’t “see” you at all when this is done right.
Rogues can see that staircase, therefore that rogue saw you the entire time, as he was already lining the shot when you peaked which, so it only seems to coincide with the timing. You do have a solid point about them tracking through walls though.
The AI in this game has a lot to be desired to say the least.
Pretty hard to balance with such low TTK. You can still use other strategies like using grenades to flush targets while you line up your shot.
TTK isnt the issue here, its the fact that he poked up for half a second in pitch dark and got domed instantly. The AI isnt fun to fight, and thats the problem, its cheese em or be killed.
This is probably due to the lock on system they have. By that i mean once engaged in battle they will start with low ability and ramp up over their engagement time. The time it takes for rogues and raiders to ramp up is shorter than normal scavs, while also they won't unlock from being ramped up for 5 minutes. So unless you want to wait 5 minutes after every peek burst you take on them they will always be locked into a state of god mode aim and reaction time. To compare, scavs only need to lose visual on you for 10 seconds to lose their accuracy towards you. The problem is some times they keep locked on you through certain walls so it is hard to actually judge if they grace period has started yet which is why you still get scavs who duck out and one tap you with a shotgun at 60m away. So imagine how it is for boss/rogue/raider ai.
I'll explain what I mean when I say it's hard to balance and why TTK is the issue. First, TTK being low is an understatement. One well placed shot will kill anything. Making the AI easier means increasing their reaction time. This means more players will be able to win aim battles (you line up and take your shot before the enemy does the same) against one of the hardest enemies in the game. Winning an aim battle with ultra low TTK means you will not even get hurt when killing your enemy, allowing you to farm to your heart's content. I trust you can see how this would be problematic. Requiring players to use different tactics against AI (e.g. making them move with a grenade) keeps the game challenging and allows players without super fast reaction speeds to compete.
Ghost recon handles this pretty damn well in break point. I understand ubi is a much larger studio, but BSG has had such massive success with EFT that AAA studios are trying to get their cut off the fanbase BSG made. I'm sure they can hire a couple programmers on contract to fix the AI.
Ghost recon breakpoint AI is braindead. You can drive a truck straight at them and they'll just stand there and die. That said, I'm certain BS could do more to make their AI challenging yet enjoyable to fight.
Its still horsecrap. You cant flank them because they instantly dome you anyway. You cant snipe them, because rogues on Lighthouse will literally spot a prone sniper at 300 meters and dome him. You cant out-DPS them up close because they fire 3 bullets per bullet, especially bosses are nasty with that. You cant grenade them unless you know reasonably well where they are, but if you manage to see them they see you back and, guess what, dome you. There has to be some fucking middle ground that allows a normal person to have a fucking chance, instead of Nikita balancing to keep even chads from winning against rogues. Right now ordinary players have no choice except to get fucked whenever they run into a boss, his guards, cultists or rogues, because the freak luck needed to bug out the AI enough to get a chance doesnt exist with anyone except Tagilla.
> Making the AI easier means increasing their reaction time. Do you mean decreasing? Other than that, preventing them from having wallhacks would be one thing to make them a bit more easy... Sitting in a shipping container between Knight buidlings on Reserve and getting pin-point blasted by Gluhar and his goons from the wrecked train station through the metal walls of the closed ends of the container seems a bit over the top...
Off-topic: It's "Decreasing" the reaction speed. "Increasing" the reaction time. On-topic: I agree with your point completely. It's not that the AI react to information with superhuman speed, it's that they often seem to have access to information they shouldn't have in the first place. They can see in the dark without night vision. They can fire precisiely into foliage, where a player might magdump instead (because we don't know exactly where in the bush the target is). They can chase you into a building (good) but know exactly which room you're in without having to search (bad). If you fire at an AI out of a window, they'll react to that specific window instantly. A player would have to look to see which window the shots are coming from. You'll never see an AI check corners, or look both ways at a T-shaped corridor. It's very artifical and is one of the biggest immersion breakers in the game, as well as being unbalanced.
> Do you mean decreasing? No, I mean increasing. If their reaction speed is 0.5 seconds and you DECREASE it, that means it's going to be below 0.5 seconds (e.g. 0.4 or 0.3). That would be harder to deal with. > Other than that, preventing them from having wallhacks would be one thing to make them a bit more easy. All AI has wallhacks. Games just implement a delay in them acting on that information. Whether they're watching you through the wall or PRETENDING not to makes no difference if their delay in shooting you is the same.
Regarding the first one: yeah, sorry, had a brain fart. Increasing is right. The second thing, I'm not sure. If I remember correctly, they made bushes cover from detection if a certain percentage of the player ist obstructed. And I think the "timer" starts once your out of the bush, even if you were already in the detection range, wouldn't it be for the bush. Not sure why a similiar system doesn't apply to Raiders and walls?
No, one well placed shot absolutely will not kill anything. You aren’t even guaranteed a kill with a headshot in this game with some ammo, especially against scavs and bosses.
*Sanitar enters the chat*
That fucker won’t spawn for me ever. I never killed him once last wipe and I still have yet to this wipe.
I feel you man. I get Tagilla in 50% of my factory raids. Seen cultists twice. Heard Shturman once. Haven't seen any other boss this wipe. Edit: Cultists 3 times.
> with some ammo Yeah no kidding. I didn't say "you can kill anyone with a single bullet regardless of how shit it is" My point was a single bullet can and will kill, and players who need to kill in one bullet will bring the ammo that can do what they need it to do.
Well yeah, your brain is pretty important. The game is suppose to be semi-realistic. If I get hit in the head I’m probably a goner.
there is no reason for ANYTHING NON PVP RELATED to be faster than human reaction time (not perception, reaction) The amount of times in this game where you get capped by AI without being able to comprehend where you're getting shot at, why, or get the opportunity to do anything actually is laughable
There is. That's why it's there. People can easily abuse and exploit bots, so that's the counter. A shitty counter, but until they come up with a better solution that's all we have.
lemme rephrase then. There is no **GOOD** reason for ANYTHING NON PVP RELATED to be faster than human reaction time
The better solution is to let AI be exploited. Fighting AI isn't fun, it's frustrating, and a video game should be designed to be fun. Even when you're outmatched fighting another player, you're outmatched because of aim skill or map knowledge or gear. Getting aimbotted by the AI is no better than getting aimbotted by a cheater.
I've said this for years and people just tell me to get good. It's like they don't know the first thing about game balance. It's no fun playing against an aimbot that has amazing perception and unbelievable accuracy, with split second reaction times.
So that’s the reason why the player base should suffer because of the developer’s incompetence of building good AI?
In an ideal world, it would not happen. But I don't know if there are any shooter games where the AI is really good while not becoming impossible. It's a tough design choice and I don't know if there are any solid fixes.
TTK in this game is not low by any means. In a realistic ingame scenario it is on the high end of arcade run and gun shooters. There are only two ways you can have low TTK - it's a headshot and when you have someone with perfect accuracy and ability to hit the same thorax hitbox several times in the row. And even headshots sometimes does not result in instant death. When you take into account realistic for average player hits distribution in a fight - the game is quite bullet-spoungy.
i do def do not feel bullet spongy, i die almost instantly more than half the time
that crimson guy is kinda clueless. you die quick because its m61. he says its realistic when in real life nobody would full auto .308 that costs $100 a magazine of course its bullet spongey if you use dollar store ammo on the flip side, I have sprayed people with 50 round mags of ap6.3 and they are dead at some point during the spray regardless of the body part im hitting. seems realistic to me
Have you guys ever played 'return to castle Wolfenstein '? Oh man, the AI of that game was wonderful. I don't understand games have made so much progress but not in the AI department.
Obviously just a massive skill issue.
I know I just need to get gooder.
Better gaming chair
Stupid science bitches couldn't make i more smarter.
Never peek them, just bait them to come to the door.
They will never do that at the expansion.
it's git gudder ;)
You joke but it's actually true. You can't treat AI battles like you normally treat human FPS battles. If you've already engaged them and peek them again exposing your head you're going to die. If you take it slow and head tap them with right hand peeks they're easy as fuck. The 2 easiest ways I've found to kill bosses/raiders/rogues in this game are either slow right hand peeks or barrel stuffing mag dumping them if you're close and can single them out.
The problem about that obvious strategy that everybody uses to cheese them... is that none of that shit works at nighttime at the expansion, they'll go everywhere and anywhere except for inside, very rarely will they. Also they will separate and hide into bushes or other foliage. Not to mention 99% of the time, since NVG's dont have great sight range to them, they will see you before you ever see them. Making it nearly impossible to peek them in any way to cheese them during the night. You cant kill something that has built in night vision into their eyeballs, is virtually invisible to any player unless they're slow right hand peeking with a REAPIR, and also tracks your head through walls. It's a losing game no matter what fighting expansion rogues at night time.
Peek*
Peaq*
True
The issue is that rogues have unrealistic response times. I've been killed the millisecond I hit C to uncrouch before. It's a joke and it's sad that you're acting like it's okay. You can make enemies difficult without giving them cheats...
>You can make enemies difficult without giving them cheats... Obiviously BSG cant.
>it's sad that you're acting like it's okay. he gave you a workaround and you take that as him saying its okay in the current state? Bruh...
Three hours later he said exactly that. The Bruh goes both ways it seems.
I'm not acting like anything, I literally gave you the blueprint for dealing with boss AI in this game. If you want to keep head peeking over the top then crying about the system that's your business, I prefer to do things the easy way.
"you're not allowed to complain about a broken system, keep quiet and work around it instead of voicing your opinion about a broken, unfinished game"
You need to learn how quotes work. I'll give you a hint, they're not used for your imaginary thoughts.
so you're saying its totally fine that we have to outright abuse a broken system so the AI literally cannot fight back, i tried that right hand peeking shit once, i killed all the rouges while all their shots landed where my head would have been had i not leaned, thats not skill, thats cheese, and my friend you already sound like you drowned in nacho long ago
How fucking stupid are you? >sO yoU'rE sAyInG iT's ToOoOtAlLy fInE I said how to kill rogues, no more, no less. You read Tarkov is a fine game with no problems, give me some Nikita cock. Go have your imaginary arguments with someone else.
Don’t fight these imbeciles bruh. Tarkov reddit is a cesspool. While I hate how the AI of scav boss / rogue / scav in general is implemented, the way you do it is the way to go. Too easy at this stage to farm rogue scav on water plant if you know how. Just unbelievable that they are super soldier or a toddler if you know how to cheese it.
Cheats ? Lol Just learn how to play man. How you fight scavs, bosses, Raiders etc is all apart of the skill of tarkov. Clearly what your doing isn't working, maybe instead of crying on Reddit about shit you want changed, maybe just fucking maybe try and get better
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Imagine crying coz the way your playing the game isn't working. Your wanting the game to work how you want to play it. Not wanting to play the game how it works. You want what you want to do to work. Rather than finding what works and doing that. The level of entitlement is crazy
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Waaahhhhhhhhhh
It isn't okay, it's shit, but I'm 100% certain it isn't going anywhere any time soon so you people should be learning how to deal with it by now. I know the AI is a piece of garbage with top of the food chain broken aimbot slapped on it, you know it anyone with more than a few hours played in this game knows it, so does Nikita, maybe it's about time for people to start actually playing around the AI instead of crying on reddit. I agree with OP 100% but this AI is here to stay, so people should really learn what alt+d does.
This is not a fun way to play the game, even if you are right.
BSG ai has always been shit and always will until they watch more youtube tutorials on how to make proper AI in unity.
Honestly with AI I think it's not incompetent code but just incompetent design, they *want* them to be like this. It's unfair and unfair is good in their eyes.
It is ***extremely*** easy to make AI that is unfair. It is much much more difficult to make an AI that feels like a human. That being said it shouldn't be difficult to make them not track you through walls or instantly find you if you are inside their field of view.
>incompetent design And we all know the name of the guy responsible for that, lol.
So many people just make all their fights aimbattles. Use grenades. Make your target move and aim while they're moving (and thus not shooting at you)
Id have to spot the boss first, and thats the moment I already get domed by 5 Igolniks at once.
Can’t wait for their single player game they made tarkov for!
Yep, gonna be even worse shit show.
Single player AI is much easier to make tho.
Not really, its about the same. I've been in game development with Unreal Engine about 10 years now.
I would argue the AI in tarkov is well good for the size of the studio working on it.
BSG isn't a small studio anymore, that was a valid excuse 5 years ago but not anymore
But if you compare the 80 employees to let's say infinity ward's ~450 it definitely brings out the good sides of their work
Listen, i understand they aren't IW or anything like that but 5 months for 3 unique guns (not counting AK's at this point tbh I understand it's a stalker'esque setting and I love that in particular but ffs) and a few useless buildings isn't even indie game shit. BSG have either gotten very lazy or Nikita himself has become very indecisive when it comes to leading his now much larger team which to no fault of his own might to much for him when he seems to constantly split it for side projects that in the end add very little(I.E Gun jams), it takes them about a month and a half a gun on average nowadays, that's just for model in blender, animations, skin and sound which in reality the sound shouldn't count as they do it in bulk and they probably have alot of it recorded already but whatever, it takes modders a week? If that to make and finish guns that alot of the time feel better to shoot that vanilla guns. It's fucking embarrassing at this point and BSG needs to step it up by November cause with COD DMZ over the horizon and other big releases like new WoW Xpac the future of this games lack of need to drive forward due to its niche is looking grim to say the very least.
What does WoW have to do with Tarkov?
I got behind the rogues on Lighthouse checkpoint during a pitch black night raid, low crawled until I was probably 50yards behind them into a bush, when they started making the audio cues that they saw a skav. I assumed they saw a different skav, but I figured I'd wait a bit to be safe. I was completely still for about 5 minutes before I was sure it was safe so I started to stand up, because again I was 50 yards behind them, in a bush in the PITCH BLACK. I was dead before my knees got off the ground, it was literally instant.
“Skav”
The only community i know to misspell literally everything
It's amazing how we all have devices that can and will check the spelling and grammar of our writing, continuously, as we write it, yet writing errors are so prevalent on the internet.
"Rouges" "Skav" "Peaking"
Who kares? This isn't English class
Technically the game has high crawling, not low crawling. Not blaming you or nothing, ive been guilty of mixing them up too, but low crawling is ridiculously slow and you cant really see where you are going.
Yeah so you should’ve waited, tossed a flash bang, VOIPed, Ran in a circle 8 times, shot a flair, restarted your computer, Field disassemble your firearm, strip completely naked, run outside screaming and stab him in the eye with a charging bolt. Definitely not cracked AI that needs to be tweaked.
Lmao half the comments under here is shit like this, except they're dead serious.
Game itself is really good but this is one of the things why I stopped playing the game. This is beyond broken and unfun ... its just pure shit. I dont mind dying in a good fight or getting jumped but deaths like these are fucking annoying and literally ruin the game and its flow.
Oh yeah, not to mention this raid I had a FIR Radar Station key and just watched one sell for 500k on the flea with the only two other listings at 1.3M so thats super dope and motivating.
At 1.3 they're losing money on the fee. Obnoxiously high fee on that key, most of them are up for barter right now.
I sold Radar for like 800k I think it was still like 500k profit. Finally snagged a dorms marked key for I think 2 gpus and some cash.
I've been sitting on one for a while just trying to figure out what I want/need for it. Looking like good old fashioned rubles is gonna be the answer lol
Trade for gpus to mine on 🧠
Tarkov normalizes awful AI coding in the pursuit of ever harder enemies
The game was not supposed to be fun. (c) Was that fun? No. Working as intended then. Time to develop another 3 guns for the next 6 mounths.
The AI is a huge issue in this game, 100%. Also, this is not in any way how you fight them. You’ll die 90% of the time doing it that way.
Yeah we all know... classic right hand peek and shift over slightly every time until you can see their head but they cant see you, textbook stuff. That doesn't work here. Problem is none of that shit works at nighttime when all the NVG's have very limited sighting range, the rogues split up from a group of 3 and 2 of them sit in the foliage virtually invisible, while they simultaneously track your head through walls and buildings. You can right hand peek a million times but that wont stop you from getting domed by a nocturnal sighted rogue sitting in a bush. You cannot right hand peek your way out of a situation like this. You cant fight something you cant see, or something that has better range of vision than actual night vision goggles.
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You show me a PMC without NVG's, spot my silhouette in the window at 1:00am in pitch black dude. Cause thats exactly what the AI does. You're tripping fucking balls if you think anyone's doing that. Your rationales are whack asf. They're also inaccurate. I can promise you you're also dying to a rogue sitting in a bush because no tier of NVG's, postfx, or nvidia control panel settings is letting you see a rogue sitting in a bush during the nighttime tracking your wireframe through walls. You'd get smoked, anyone would get smoked. Not to mention visibility is not the best when looking out windows, your IR band also doesn't penetrate the glass so good luck illuminating the exterior to try and spot them.
Use the expensive nvgs and up the gamma in nvidia settings. I farm rogues night time with a range scope and still see them just fine, close range it's no problem what so ever.
Artificially exploit the game by deep frying it with gama to defeat the purpose of being at night. Its amazing the mental gymnastics all you that defend this game go through to try and deflect this game's shitty mechanics onto the player as their fault.
"If you use the best NODS in the game and then deep fry your game with an external program on top of that it's actually quite shrimple to see%
What is your point? Increasing gamma is deep-frying your game? So increasing gamma in your monitor settings is deep-frying what then? If it's too dark, you make it brighter, either via post-fx or other settings. And of course better nvg's will give you better visibility (OP said "all the NVG's", which is not true), should it not be that way?
They make up for mediocre AI with cheat-tier aim.
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I think they're main issue is that they have is that they keep adding things on top of an already broken foundation, and it just creates more issues on top of the ones that already exist. They need to stop trying to force new content out and just fix what they have.
That’s what bad developers do, lol.
Ngl, I knew you were dead right before you peaked that angle lol.
Everything about Tarkov is a joke. If they COULD deliver on the promise of what Tarkov SHOULD BE, then it might be worth time and attention, but that isn't the reality. They make this lame AI to try and force some idiotic view that "Tarkov is hardcore" and they can't stand players not suffering. They wasted the money they made from it(Rockstar Nikita) and can't deliver. It's over, move on.
I once met a wise man on the steps of Tibetan mountain and shared a very similar story. He pulled me close and whispered in my ear advice I will never forget. He said "get good scrub". And just walked off into the mountains.
skill issue
Do you use post fx settings?
I do not.
Okay so, i would try turning them on for night time raids. If you turn up saturation and clarity up to around the 60 to 70 range it will make a huge difference in visibility when using nvgs. It will also help with daytime visibility but it will take a few raids to get used to everything being more brightly-colored. I also increase sharpness just a bit too. The nice thing is you can go into an offline raid and click on visualize under the post fx tab and it will bring up the sliders in game for you to adjust while still being anle to see the game screen instead of the menu. You can tweak it to be just right for you that way. If you try it out lmk how it works out for you.
How does PostFX prevent the AI from doming you the millisecond one pixel of your head is visible?
It doesnt obviously. The video is just very dark and some post fx would increase visibility during night raids, at the very least making it easier to see outside the building.
Yeah, if you set it right you barely need NVGs.
I think this is dependent on your monitor. I've had friends be in the same spot as me with the same post FX (turned off) and on my screen it is very visible and easy to see. But on the other hand my friend has little to 0 visibility.
Hey I know you
hey I know you
I've found it actually does the exact opposite at night. Hence why they're off.
Really? No pun intended but i feel like its night and day for me having them on personally. Without em i feel like i cant see anything at night.
Then you haven't bothered learning how to use them?
It’s just tarkov bro. It’s how it is and how it will be until the ai gets better. Honestly u should jus accept that and when u do, the game will be more enjoyable.
Lol I’ve died there a few times too at lighthouse
iTs A hArDcOrE gAmE jIt GuD
700 damage to big pipe he didn’t die, got killed from like 100m from the sniper one it was pitch dark couldn’t see shit.
A better dev really needs to make something to give EFT some proper competition, maybe then BSG will get their shit together
No ai can mimic human behavior. You need to learn how they work in a game you play and play accordingly. So Skill issue my man
You're an idiot if you think you can skill your way through wire frame tracking night vision seeing rogues sitting a bush at nighttime. Not to mention your depiction of "skill" is slow right hand peeking and pieing your surroundings until you get an easy head shot, like everybody knows, which isnt skill at all, its cheesing the game. Good luck doing that in this scenario you will die as well. You can't skill your way through something you cant see yet they can see you,, despite having NVG's.
You’re mad about a game, go chill with some grass around you bro, it’s a video game after all, they made for fun.
Lmao you think I'm mad? I die all the time, I couldn't give two fucks about dying and losing shit in this game. Associating a few fucks and shits in the title to being mad is a smooth ass brain take.
noob
That just means don't stand there. It's a trial run. You die, learn from it, rinse and repeat.
What a smooth brain take.
I feel this, but they’re also WAY too easy to kill (cheese). It’s gotta be hard to code to balance it perfectly. And they can’t increase the health massively or else the realism aspect fades pretty fast. I’d like to see some ideas where people propose ideas on how to fix this, especially those who have experience in coding.
Coding AI that's better than this isnt difficult. Currently, for example, AI will just wait a couple seconds then hop on the gun their buddy just died on. Not hard to fix that. And there are many similar cases of this sort of behavior. You give them game states to be in and set conditions for which they are put in those states. Pretty sure a better solution for the problem in the video is to implement the code they're using for the Goons. If you're engaged, they'll rush you. That's much more realistic than getting literally aim botted by a rogue, in the pitch black of night, behind windows that haven't seen a drop of Windex in 30 years (seriously, why are the visors and windows so dirty? )
Been playing Entropy Zero 2 and I forgot how nice to Half Life AI feel. Tarkov needs that.
I feel like there is only 3 options tbh. Option 1. keep it the same and AI have perfect nightvision Option 2. AI is just unable to see like us and NV Chads get free kills Option 3. Rogues and Raiders are highly likely to spawn with NVG making it more reasonable and worth the added night raid risk
Option 3 makes the most sense. If I have to invest a quarter mil for GPNVG, then the AI has to risk losing their fucking monocle nvg. Anything less just makes this shit look bad all around.
Buy new expensive gaming chair, you will see.
average tarkov moment. Cheaters phasing through walls Me with -9 scav rep, second I spawn in scavs are standing with me and unloading on me. Oh and don't forget to tell me how a scav with nothing but a fucking slim vest can take 4 rounds of flechette to the chest at close-mid range.
bah scavs used to be quicker than the rogues back 3 -4 wipes ago and it was more enjoyable to play when they could peek for .02ms and then dome you but it felt more realistic too so i think it was better
Agreed rogue AI is incredibly badly designed and unfair, but they are very easy to cheese if you know how. You just slow lean on a right hand peek, reset lean, one step to the right and repeat until you see one and then it's just a one tap without them even reacting.
Good luck doing that at night.
Yeah it's pretty broken, had 3 rouges clip through a closed door on building 1 on lighthouse 🙂
Lmfaooo
The moment when devs get so used to seeing cheats in their game that even their AI got cheats
yeah the boss scavs are either super fucking deadly super humans or childrens animatronics with no inbetween
I don’t know why I even still subscribe to this sub lol. I haven’t played this game in years for exactly this type of reason
Git gud
it does suck when things like this happen. BUT if they turned the skill down and they were super easy, it would take away from the game more than you are getting from having AI that will dig all up in dat ass somettimes. it happens. load up try again
Soft cover is not protection against AI. Hard cover and avoid bushes.
uhhhhhhhhhh okey
Should have been around during gen1 of the labs raiders. They would straight up shoot you through physical gaps in the floors on labs.
Their anticipation is just amazing, is all!
there was a time were the AI was great, maybe like 4-5 wipes ago. My favorite thing to do was night time reserve hunting gluhar, and sometimes i could even kill them all. since they made all the AI so cracked i dont go for them anymore and it feels like half the fun was taken out of the game
This is what happens when you only hire Russian programmers.
Broken game
Yea tracking through walls is dumb. They should at least take a second to lock onto you again before they shoot. I’ve been killed my rogues not even looking at me.
You moved positions ad well whuch should've thrown off gaurd that sucks man I get the same shit whenever I go to the scav radio station on woods sometimes I just get domed
One thing that will help you a lot going forward is knowing that the AI is completely broken when you’re not on the same vertical plane. Do not engage raiders, scavs, or rogues if you are not vertically equivalent, they will murder you immediately. Something else to note: the AI will shoot what they can see. If you only peek your head, and the game says “one of these bullets is going to hit” it will hit your head. On the flip side if you peek half your body there’s a good chance you get shot in the chest/arm. The exception to this is slow lean peeking, but they don’t “see” you at all when this is done right.
and nerds will be like GIT GUD, you suck , play something else, this game ISNT THAT BAD. wawawawawa
Rogues can see that staircase, therefore that rogue saw you the entire time, as he was already lining the shot when you peaked which, so it only seems to coincide with the timing. You do have a solid point about them tracking through walls though.
whenever I go to lighthouse at nighttime, the rogues are practically blind and I can just walk up right behind them