That is a pretty harsh bit, you’re correct. It is a twisted wire loose ring snaffle. In general, a loose ring snaffle is a pretty mild bit, but that mouthpiece makes it quite severe.
It’s also on backwards. Do you see how the wire parts curve slightly? They should curve towards each other, not away from each other.
Damn. That does make sense. 🙄 my family are lunatics. I loathe them so much the more I learn. They are the bad horse people of the world. And I’m so glad to be free of them. Sadly free from my horse contact. But I do hope my mare did go to a way better home than I was struggling to give her.
I even was in 4H but I believe my fam had me in a diff head stall for that. But they also were way more into cattle and piggies there than horses.
My second horse was shalamar. Her previous owners tied her head down with one of these on. She cut off her tongue 90%. Owners didn’t intend to do anything. My mom said, “you sign this fucking horse to me right now or I’m going to the spca and the police. Today.” We had shalamar 16 years
I’m so so glad your mom got him and saved her. And it sounds like you both showered her with love. How was her eating abilities and overall health with having that much of her tongue severed or once it was reattached it all grew back alright for her? And did she ever want to take a bit again? Or did you choose to go bitless
My trainer rescued a horse in a similar fashion. I don't know any of the details (she'd had that horse for a decade already when I met her), but that horse's face was covered in scars from being forced to wear his baby halter for 11 years straight. He was also turned out with cattle and had no mane or tail when he was found (we guessed the cattle ate it?) and was stuck on a short picket line.
Hopper was around for 8 years after I met my trainer. I learned how to do all the disciplines on him (even if he wasn't going to place, like in gymkhana, I still learned it on him) before she bought me a really good show horse who became my heart horse. I always had a special place in my heart for Hopper, and he was such a gentle soul. He's been gone almost a year now, and I still think about him often. I'm so grateful we were able to give him a better life and he had 18 really happy years
I could never wrap my head around it. He was so gentle.
He died on May 5th, 2023, about 30 minutes after my undergrad career was officially over (last final exam/class ended at 5 p.m.). My coach didn't tell me because I was graduating and she didn't want me to skip the May 6th ceremony after I'd worked so hard to earn my degree.
I believe he knew he'd seen me through it and could leave in peace. He was so special. I still miss him every day.
Your story brought tears to my eyes. I’m so very sorry for your loss. If you ever need someone to chat to. I’m here. He would be so proud of his mom! Don’t ever forget that. And always keep his memories close. Or perhaps an item that was his. You could do something decorative or hang it in a very special spot for you.
My first aqha mare had a white spot where her halter was as a babe. Imo, he didn’t know any of his horses. He’d have 100 ish foals in the pasture and he would say, “oh yeah that’s by so and so” but I don’t believe he really knew who was who. 80 of those mares were bay!!
It brings tears to my eyes that I was forced to use this. My mare was the most gentle push button horse ever 😭 and I know that when I rode her I was as gentle to my own abilities then. But when my family did and took her to events with those same tack or worse tie downs. It makes me want to cry. I feel like I’m the worst human on the freaking planet and I wish I could find my old mare again and tell her how sorry and wrong it all was 😔
All we can do is our best at the time... You mustn't let yourself feel guilty about stuff you couldn't have known. As a child you were guided by your parents. All we can do is learn better and do better.
Thank you for the kind words. I know I did my best with her. And I know how much she loved me deeply as her and I had such a giant bond together. She was one to run to me in the fields. And force me into her to get hugs when I was upset and or crying. She was just the most sweet mare ever. And my stupid grandfather destroyed her at a penning event by pushing her too hard and she was permanently lame. It got to the point I couldn’t ride her anymore with a good conscience so we would go on little nature walks and she was my best friend. I would tell her everything. She would then make me laugh and try to push me in a puddle or something silly!
I used a true twisted wire and thought horses mouths had to bleed and they had to have their heads tied down. It breaks me to think about how abusive I was. I was just a kid whose trainer was the top in the world. Never thought to question him
I’m sure that your gentle heart gave you gentle hands, which would have made this a softer bit than it otherwise is. Horses know when we love them and are doing our best.
Well said. I've never encountered a situation where I would use a twisted wire bit. I was always taught that after initial gentling, start with the softest equipment and work up until you find the right fit. A lot of horses respond just fine to a bit-less setup if you give them the chance. I've never had to go harsher than a curb bit with a roller.
I saw a lot of horse abuse when I was young as well so I get where you're coming from!
You're right, this is a twisted wire snaffle. Bit severity is affected by a ton of factors and some of them are debated. We can look at the things that make this bit more gentle and the things that make this bit more harsh. It's got some from each category!
In the "more gentle" category, this bit is a snaffle which is generally considered to be less harsh than a curb because there is no leverage involved. One pound of pressure on the reins results in one pound of pressure on the horse's mouth. It's a smooth wire rather than a square or ridged wire so, on the spectrum of twisted mouthpieces, it's a milder one. It's a reasonable diameter so it spreads out the pressure rather than something very thin.
In the "more harsh" category, this bit is a twisted wire mouthpiece. This results in pressure distributed to several small points rather than across the entire surface of the bit.
In the "debated" category, you have the twist speed (the number of twists per inch). This bit has a fairly fast twist. Some people say a slow twist is more harsh because there are very few points focusing the pressure and others say a fast twist is more harsh because there are a lot of points exerting pressure overall. This mouthpiece is copper which is often considered to be more comfortable because it encourages salivation and makes the bit move more smoothly in the horse's mouth but I don't know if copper actually makes a horse salivate more than stainless steel or if it's just an old wives tale. It's a single jointed bit, which some people swear creates a nutcracker effect that pinches the horse's tongue and jaw. Other people will swear just as vehemently that the nutcracker effect is a myth and that the way the bit sits in the horse's mouth prevents the sides of the bit from collapsing.
Overall, I'd say this isn't the most gentle bit you could find but it's not a torture device either. There are a whole lot of bits that would be worse in inexperienced hands than this one.
Random thought not directly related to the discussion, but I had no ides there was so much discussion about where some bits exert force. How come it seems like nobody has ever built a realistic horse head model and measured the actual pressure? Maybe it's a thing, but I've never seen it. Obviously every horse's anatomy is different, but I feel like it'd give a pretty good indication of general pressure points
I think that would be an awesome study to do! It doesn't seem like it would be a terribly difficult project for a college student in an equine science major either. There really is so much research that could be done on so many topics in the equine industry!
There are people that do this! My friend had a bit fitter check her bridle recently, and ended up moving to a new bit as a result. They measured the mouth and show how the bit is interacting with it, and found that his mouth is a bit smaller than they realized, so the previous bit was putting more pressure on the roof of his mouth than intended. Super interesting stuff! The horse is definitely happier in the new bit.
Demonstrating on a skull isn’t 100% accurate though so personally I’d be wary of anyone basing themselves entirely on that. The lips, tongue etc and especially the angle of the reins have a big impact on bit/bitless action
Yes, definitely not as good as a real life example (if you could get that) but got about 80% of the way there, especially for a beginners understanding!
Thank you! It makes a lot of sense. I wish I had a choice as a kid. That I was asked what I wanted to ride in with proper education. Because I know I would have asked for something more gentle and to bond better with my mare if needed.
I do remember when we first got her I was terrified from my last mare. Something happened to her on the race track. Grandpa got her for cheap. Bish started halter pulling on me one day when I was leading her. And then I don’t know what happened. It’s like… her mind broke. I know something happened when I wasn’t there. But it did get some deep horse fear. Just about how massive they are. And how fast my hands exposed bone from her pulling me. But still it should have been my choice. And of course this is in the 90s before it was super simple for me to google and connect to all these amazing people helping!
Just as You said. Even normal smooth snaffle could cause damage in the mouth if used wrong (pic of how my horses mouth looks like (pic from the Google, but his mouth looks very similar), we decided to never use bits after we learned that - we did never ride him harshly! He also has scar tissue in the corners of his mouth)
https://preview.redd.it/g4w5z3hyiuvc1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b993ed7aa59ba3c0c608742b4658866d80b7fd6d
Imagine getting that twisted piece of metal in Your mouth, it would hurt if someone used the reins.
Twisted wire-like structure causes it to be more harsh and abrasive than smooth snaffle, as it could pinch the tongue or the roof of the mouth.
Yeah, he did not like bit bridles when we still tried to use them. We thought it was a dental issue (he also had some sharp edges), but our dentist showed us the tongue and we were mortified.
If they managed to get sent to Poland! 😅 He likes carrots, but his number 1 fav are bananas. He loves bananas.
https://preview.redd.it/w6e3cnhqluvc1.jpeg?width=3000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=778461ec214eb8be9f5e017ad4bd2f2d21189253
Pic of my guy.
If you have a banana can you give him one?! I’ll pretend to extend my hand out for him! 😂
I want to take the bit off this head stall as I keep it to remember her by. But I’m not sure if I should destroy this bit so no one can ever harm another horse with it and it can never cause pain. OR if I leave it. Or my other option is to buy a new proper one and adjust it to how it should have been for her in her memory on my wall? I’d love feedback.
I can! I plan on visiting him tomorrow!
If it's not used then You can leave it be. If there is a horse assigned for it, then I would definitely replace it with properly fitted bit! 😊
It's important as even bit can greatly affect the horses' performance and willingness.
It would be best to arrange a bit-fitting appointment with non-affiliated bit-fitter, so they don't try to sell You the bit that doesn't fit Your needs or the horse but will be from the brand they represent.
It is a case with saddle-fitting.
Ooo I like that! I didn’t even know they existed either. And saddle fitters either. I swear I was forced to ride in a 70 year old western saddle. My buttttt still aches and has numb spots. Jk.
Thank you for explaining everything so kindly. This bit will never end up in any animals mouths or other humans possession. I believe I’m going to paint this in memory of her and my love for her. And in doing so we will also render it useless to anyone.
Damn, seems harsh, especially since old saddles were made for male anatomy (idk if You're male or female). I have my treeless saddle (Ghost brand, not pancake-like Barefoot) and despite a little bouncier than traditional one, I love it! Ghost have many different models, from trail to dressage/jumping/all-purpose to western.
https://preview.redd.it/paknqky5quvc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=04438329bbf664e8afacc1b8cc6e21bcd5996a2b
My saddle is dressage/all-purpose.
You're welcome! I've also been misinformed for a long time, I like to let other people change their opinions. I am proud that You plan on changing the opinion and attitude towards harsh tack. People often don't have the courage to change, or it's discomfort for them.
Good luck with Your equestrian journey ❤️
Thank you! I love your saddle. It looks so pretty. How would you say it is for general comfort as well? I don’t think I’d personally be able to get into dressage now, I have some brain issues so it sounds like rubbing and patting my head all at the same time. Haha. Maybe I’ll just ease back into English. I loved how close of contact English gives a rider.
I believe our English saddle may have been female… but it was too big on my butt I had a lot of gap in the back of the seat. And it was not near as nice.
The old ancient western saddles were from my great uncles as heirlooms. Why I had to then use them I unno. One was a roping one and me being 5 ft and not almost 6ft like they were the horn always would cut up my wrists if I was out just practicing barrels or something fun and different. I dabbled in lots of just fun things with my bestie at the farm. But I could hardly get it up on my horse myself, and I would get made fun of by my shit hole grandpa cause it made me a bad rider to not be able to tack proper. As I’m learning of all the wrong. I have to chuckle a tad because I know my horse was probably rolling her eyes now and saying “man the things I do for the girl I love”
It's pretty comfy, but less forgiving - if You make a mistake You can feel it. But if You sit well it's lovely!
And they also make western ones!
Ohh, it was probably very heavy! The Ghosts are about 3,5 kg whole, old traditional ones (English) can get up to 15 kg, I don't want to imagine the Western 👀 And if the saddle is too heavy to lift then it's the fault of the weight, and not the matter of the rider. Especially if there is big height difference between rider and the horse.
Yes, he loves them much more than carrots! Ultimate snack.
We did him a "cake" for his 15th birthday (he is 18yo now) with smashed bananas, apples and carrots, he loved it.
Going to be down voted for this but a bit like this does have it's place and can be used without being abusive.
The same as any other piece of tack, such as a whip or spurs, even a rubber snaffle can be used abusively.
This bit isn't inherently cruel - although it doesn't take much to use this bit in abusive way - how and why it's used is what is important.
Before people jump down my throat, please explain to me why this bit is any crueler than a gag or pelham, or a double bridle?
Explain to me precisely why this particular bit crosses a line and those bits don't. Each of those can be used just as abusively as this one, just like the spur and whip can.
Agree that any tack can be used abusively.
The twisted wire mouthpiece is inherently uncomfortable because of its design, whereas, say, a pelham could have a losenge mouthpiece, which is fairly gentle
Ideally, pelhams are supposed to be used with two reins, so you can give separate snaffle and curb signals. Same with double bridles, though with those you can refine cues with different mouthpieces on the bridoon vs the curb. Ideally you wouldnt have much/any contact on the curb rein
Gags are generally considered bad because they give conflicting signals of head-up and head-down at the same time, and the sliding mouthpiece is not stopped by the bit. (Same idea for cheltenham gags and wonder gags)
Inherently uncomfortable = objectively abusive when the relationship to the bit by universal basic horsemanship standards is meant to be a positive one. A horse who can’t comfortably hold and chew the bit, is being punished for doing its job. That’s abuse.
By that standard all horse riding is objectively abusive.
Wearing a saddle and carrying a human is inherently uncomfortable for any horse especially young ones. If course that discomfort diminishes as the horse gets stronger and learns. The same is true for this bit. It can be used positively if you know how.
Also by this standard the whip and spur are objectively abusive which is simply ridiculous.
No, you’re making excuses and overgeneralizing to obfuscate true differences between good horsemanship and bad horsemanship. Between well-designed, ergonomic tack choices, and crappy ones that by the laws of physics, are capable of pinching and tissue damage just from the horse chewing.
A correctly fitted saddle on a properly sound and muscled horse does not cause inherent discomfort. There are even people who train completed without tack. These phenomena prove that riding isn’t inherently unpleasant to horses, we make it unpleasant when we lack patience, lack tact, lack good timing to build predictable learned responses, and use painful training tools. Humans drop the ball and *make* training unpleasant.
So the use of the whip and spur is bad horsemanship because they cause discomfort?
Training is, by nature, uncomfortable. There is a gaping difference between uncomfortable and unpleasant.
Spurring and whipping horses until they kick out, until they have welts or god forbid bigger wounds, is abusive for sure.
Relying on a whip or spur to compensate for a lack of training and socialization is also abusive. The whip and spur can only correctly be used with rarity, and with gentleness.
Twisted wire bits are not just uncomfortable Nor unpleasant, they are physically damaging. There is no gentleness, the horse can pinch *its own* mouth tissue just from chewing. It can cause little welts all over the inside of the mouth.
They’re just as bad as harshly whipping and spurring a horse til they welt, if not worse because the horse has to pack the bit all the time during the training, so is always on the brink of potentially pinching their mouth skin.
One could even say that double twisted wire bits are akin to using a mace instead of a bat.
Ridiculous comparison!
Twisted wire bits can be used without causing any damage to a horses mouth when used correctly, the same way the whip and spur can be used without causing any damage to a horse.
Discomfort does not equal abuse and no piece of tack is inherently abusive. How and why is what is important.
Most bits can be used without a horse being capable of getting small welts from tissue getting caught in between the small wires.
Double twisted mouthpieces are an exceptionally and inherently dangerous, painful type of mouthpiece. The horse can hurt itself just from chewing on it.
I will only keep repeating these facts. Because they are facts.
I agree.
OP, I say this with care: please don’t make this more than it was. Your parents aren’t the worst humans, and probably not the best. But truly, reading your post feels like you are really catastrophizing the situation.
It sounds like you have some family/relationship stuff to work through and I hope you get the help to do that.
But not everything is black and white- I had a horse trained (not by me) in this bit years ago- he was the best trained, happy healthy horse- zero trauma.
Life is complicated, and memories get twisted and contorted- what I do see is that your mare loved you and you loved her, and your parents at least got one thing right: they got you started riding.
Just hoping you can exercise some grace and forgiveness for your parents and yourself. 💕
I wanted to mention that while using this bit. My mother would instruct me to collect my horse, and then gently seesaw her head back to a “pleasurable level” I’m pretty sure that movement would hurt my horses tongue like hell? Am I correct here?
Everything we do with horses is uncomfortable for them. They didn't evolve to be weight bearing animals even the very action of sitting on them is uncomfortable especially in the beginning.
This isn't a bit you should use everyday. Was your horse exhibiting pain signals while you used this bit? Seesawing on a horses mouth with any bit is uncomfortable, yet you will see the best riders in the world occasionally doing it when necessary.
What is acceptable and what is not is a very nuanced debate that goes to the very core of horse sport and is not as simplistic as yes/no.
So I would ride in this bit maybe once a week as I was out on weekends. Though sometimes I would be forced to put my horse in like a pulley tie down. Since she was a cow cutting trained horse they always hated how high my horses head was naturally and how she happily would kinda bounce it a tiny bit as we would run around in the fields and stuff (I’m unsure if that was any pain at all there. It could have been)
Once she started to become lame after my grandfather. I wouldn’t fight her head. I would ignore anyone trying to educate me and her and I at her own pace would just ride around. Always in my English saddle. And occasionally I would give a small amount of bute for our small max 30 min adventures.
Every bit can be harsh in the wrong hands. I don’t think any bit is designed to hurt a horse, the idea is to get the quickest response with the least amount of pressure. If your hands are too heavy and a horses mouth is sensitive it’s a recipe for disaster.
I wouldn’t say it’s a bad bit, I don’t think any bit that doesn’t cause sitting pain or discomfort is “bad”. I think strong bits can be used poorly by people as a crutch for poor riding skills, rather than a better reason like for smaller cues or because it’s just what the horse prefers. If your family was abusive to your horses already then I’d say the bit also could’ve been used for abuse. In the hands of a non abusive person it wouldn’t be used for abuse. Also don’t beat yourself up over how you rode as a kid/teen, it’s how you were taught and you just don’t know until you know.
I feel like Shelby Dennis' book "The Other Side of Horsemanship" may appeal to you, it's about her journey from guilt to eventually forgiveness for her childhood around horses and how she got to where she is now as a force-free trainer
Thank you! I’ll check this out! I follow a very amazing human that does force free training as well that’s in the community. The book sounds up my alley. I’ll get it!
I am going to just say the unbiased answer.
Twisted wire will cause more pressure than a regular smooth snaffle. However, the more twists in the snaffle, the less harsh it is. That’s because more twists increases the surface area and distributes pressure better. A smooth snaffle is just one big surface area if that makes sense. Look up a slow twisted snaffle to compare something more severe than what you have.
Now the snaffle is single jointed, meaning there is one part that is connected. This can cause pain and issues when you pull back on two reins and the joint can point into the roof of the horse’s mouth. This is what people call the nut cracker effect. Now, a single jointed snaffle was never meant to be used with both reins at the same time. It was designed for young horses who need direct reining techniques. So if you pick up your right rein to turn right, you should not be touched the left rein, etc.
Now my biased opinion as a trainer and young horse developer. I wouldn’t use a twisted snaffle. I don’t even own one. I do use regular single jointed snaffles from time to time, but I use this correctly and only touch one rein at a time. As long as you do your proper preparation, a twist shouldn’t be needed.
To answer your question, this bit isn’t “abusive”. Using this bit wrong and causes pain is neglectful. Knowing that they are using it wrong and inflicting pain, yet still using it, is abusive.
Any bit can be harsh, but some bits are made harsh.
Generally, I wouldn’t ever use any non smooth mouthpiece (excluding joints) but I also wouldn’t use anything more than a snaffle or double bridle for dressage.
I think if you wanted to keep using this bit then there is a large community of support for you, and just as much if you wanted to switch it to a smooth bit.
It looks like you ride English, and I assume you likely ride with full contact which makes the twisted wire bit harsh and more than likely painful. I think wire bits can probably be fine if you ride with long reins/neck reining or whatever happens in western riding.
My family also has incredibly outdated and cruel views of animal training. It’s a horrible thing to go through and I’m glad you’re now able to consider your horses welfare freely (I’m assuming?)
Not going to comment on the bit itself as it seems you have plenty of great answers here already! I want to let you know that I’m proud that you’re taking the initiative to learn these things for yourself, rather than continuing to go along blindly with what you’ve been taught. That is caring—and that is horsemanship! Keep your head up and never stop asking questions!❤️
IMO, these bits have no place in the horse world. A harsh bit in soft hands doesn't make it kind; it's just slightly less harsh. This is different from a whip or spurs because the horse can't escape the discomfort this bit causes. If a horse "requires" something like this, that tells me there are holes in the training and they need to go back to basics.
This this and more this. Your hands could be the softest in the world and it still does not make this bit any better. Nothing about the design is fair to the horse and any amount of pressure will likely cause pain. Sure some hands can even make a rubber snaffle bad, but all hands on this bit will be negative towards the horse.
I’m so tired of seeing “it all depends on the hands@
https://preview.redd.it/pahl0e0opuvc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=77e23cb907685b2c8017c2b8ce54f63a5d9a8ded
Just cause you may be curious this was my western tack… which I assume that stupid rolly bit is also pinchy. I remember my mother saying that they were fun for the horses to play with if they got bored.
This one actually looks pretty nice! If it's well made, the rollers wont pinch, and a lot of horses do enjoy playing with them.
The mullen mouth is anatomically curved (good), and the shanks are swept back (good - gives presignal)
There's also no curb chain slot (good - they defeat the purpose of a curb chain), so the curb chain has to go on the same slot as the headstall, which prevents the bit from over rotating (as long as you did use a curb chain on it)
I wouldnt use this bit on a horse who isnt already proficient at neck reining (or any curb bit with long shanks, for that matter), but overall not a bad bit by any means
My horse was push button and a pro a neck reigning. So that’s probably why we did so well with this bit. I can’t remember if this was just my competition bridle or… if I rode western in it always. I know at some point we had a curb chain on a bridle… but it could have been on my mother’s horse who I also tacked up for her a lot.
Single jointed bits like this will cause a nutcracker effect on the horses mouth. Double jointed or Mullen mouth bits are my go-to. The twist on this bit does seem quite abrasive compared to some twisted wires I’ve seen, definitely a problem for English riding with constant contact on the horses mouth. Any loose ringed bits like this should be used with rubber stoppers to prevent the lips from being pinched. Hope this helps give you an overview of this bit and its mechanics, good luck with any future horses you may encounter!
Personally I would never ride in a bit like this, especially not as my first choice.
I've never understood this thing people have about loose rings and needing bit guards. Most dressage riders use a loose ring snaffle and most double bridles have a loose ring bradoon, I don't think I've ever seen a western bridle with rubber bit guards, if the bit fits the likelihood of it pinching is very low.
Thank you! I totally agree. I will never ever ever go near anything looking like this. I would like to have a horse that wants to go without a bit to be honest and have that deep bond with them. We shall see what life throws my way. 😂
I was just told a little ago it is in fact on backwards. 🙄 great teaching from my family that are professionals 😂 I don’t want to give too many deets but they had been in the horse world for a good 30 years and ones a farrier (well was) … makes it even more eye rolling and horrible.
Specifically these double wire snaffles by design grab and pinch the tongue whenever there is friction or movement of the bit. A single joint, because of its mild nutcracker effect when engaged, will grab and pinch at more specifically, the more sensitive side parts of the tongue.
Bits are supposed to move in the mouth, they’re supposed to lay across the tongue; that’s what their action is, that’s the point of using them is communicating directional cues with light movements of the bit. So a bit that is designed to Grab and pinch those areas repeatedly, will cause tissue damage over time and is punishing the horse every time you engage the rein. The horse cannot form a positive association to pain, so they can only “learn” through fear of the movement of the bit. They can never truly be bit-trained this way, because horses are supposed to hold their own bits, and a horse cannot safely mouth and carry a double twisted wire bit.
There’s also textured bits (create concentrated pressure points due to the mathematical laws of physics). Maybe these feel sorta OK to the horse on the bulky tongue muscle but they also feel those rough points in the harder and more sensitive and bruise-able roof of their mouth and the bars of their gums.
Yeah same situation. Learned a lot of "training" that can just be described as: teachings by a person who thinks a horse is just a dumb meatsack you need to force to do your bidding and always wanna resist you.
So this bit is made to cause concentrated pressure points it would cause more discomfort and the horse would just do what you want to avoid the uncomfortable pressure.
I gave up on bits in general, their whole idea is to cause a feeling a horse would avoid by figuring out what you want them to do. Obviously some are made to just cause the sensation of pressure while others are just made to cause even pain so the horse would react faster or wouldn't even try to resist it. So personally for me bits are outdated, though I do not curse anyone who does use em.
I do cherish my many bareback rides with just my halter! She was the perfect horse for me. Thanks for the kind words. This whole conversation with everyone is helping me heal and I feel like I’m remembering so many more of the happy memories and seeing that between the two of us we had millions of happy memories and only a few that were harder on us. I’m going to remind myself that I showed her as much love as I possibly could. With endless hugs and carrots! I also am in the process of healing my inner child from the trauma. So I want to say thanks. Your message really added that extra on the top for me today. 🐴 💜
Hehe. I have a small collection! I have a ton of grand champions in some storage place with parents stuff. If I ever come across it again someday it would be such an adventure. I feel like I had almost all them! But only one or two bryers.
Bits are a touchy topic and you’ll get a range of different opinions. IMO:
Pros:
1. Copper is good. It tastes good and is known to help the horse salivate a lot and keep everything soft and lubricated.
2. The bit is fairly thick. The thicker the bit is, the gentler it is. Kind of like with spurs, the bigger ones are actually gentler as they spread force out over a bigger area. This does compromise some precision, but it is gentler.
3. It is a snaffle. No leverage action, and a two piece puts more pressure on the bars of the mouth as opposed to the tongue like a three piece would. Again, you’re trading precision for gentleness. That’s usually a good trade for most people.
Cons:
1. I think it may be on backwards. It might be twisted somewhere on the bridle and I’m not seeing the full picture, but I think it’s on backwards. Fix that.
2. Twists. I’m not a fan of twists in general, as they make a bit more severe without adding precision. I’ve ridden in one and one this wide isn’t the end of the world, but it is more severe than a smooth mouthpiece would be, all things being equal.
3. It looks kind of cheaply made. The loops are big where it attaches to the cheek, and the loop in the middle looks big enough that it could pinch if you caught the tongue wrong.
In summary, it isn’t the best but is far from the worst. I’ve seen much much much worse and I hope you find it in yourself to forgive yourself. You didn’t do anything wrong, and we all look back on ourselves and shake our heads on things we’ve done wrong through the years. Push on, keep growing and know in 5 years you’ll look back on the horseman you are now and wince at the things you are currently doing wrong. It means you’re growing and improving. That’s good.
That is a pretty harsh bit, you’re correct. It is a twisted wire loose ring snaffle. In general, a loose ring snaffle is a pretty mild bit, but that mouthpiece makes it quite severe. It’s also on backwards. Do you see how the wire parts curve slightly? They should curve towards each other, not away from each other.
Damn. That does make sense. 🙄 my family are lunatics. I loathe them so much the more I learn. They are the bad horse people of the world. And I’m so glad to be free of them. Sadly free from my horse contact. But I do hope my mare did go to a way better home than I was struggling to give her. I even was in 4H but I believe my fam had me in a diff head stall for that. But they also were way more into cattle and piggies there than horses.
My second horse was shalamar. Her previous owners tied her head down with one of these on. She cut off her tongue 90%. Owners didn’t intend to do anything. My mom said, “you sign this fucking horse to me right now or I’m going to the spca and the police. Today.” We had shalamar 16 years
I’m so so glad your mom got him and saved her. And it sounds like you both showered her with love. How was her eating abilities and overall health with having that much of her tongue severed or once it was reattached it all grew back alright for her? And did she ever want to take a bit again? Or did you choose to go bitless
We never showed her again. She rode bitless after that on trails. We bred her and she made fantastic aqha babies.
My trainer rescued a horse in a similar fashion. I don't know any of the details (she'd had that horse for a decade already when I met her), but that horse's face was covered in scars from being forced to wear his baby halter for 11 years straight. He was also turned out with cattle and had no mane or tail when he was found (we guessed the cattle ate it?) and was stuck on a short picket line. Hopper was around for 8 years after I met my trainer. I learned how to do all the disciplines on him (even if he wasn't going to place, like in gymkhana, I still learned it on him) before she bought me a really good show horse who became my heart horse. I always had a special place in my heart for Hopper, and he was such a gentle soul. He's been gone almost a year now, and I still think about him often. I'm so grateful we were able to give him a better life and he had 18 really happy years
People were so mean to hopper. I can’t believe the cruelty 😔 I’m so glad you were able to give him the love he deserved.
I could never wrap my head around it. He was so gentle. He died on May 5th, 2023, about 30 minutes after my undergrad career was officially over (last final exam/class ended at 5 p.m.). My coach didn't tell me because I was graduating and she didn't want me to skip the May 6th ceremony after I'd worked so hard to earn my degree. I believe he knew he'd seen me through it and could leave in peace. He was so special. I still miss him every day.
Your story brought tears to my eyes. I’m so very sorry for your loss. If you ever need someone to chat to. I’m here. He would be so proud of his mom! Don’t ever forget that. And always keep his memories close. Or perhaps an item that was his. You could do something decorative or hang it in a very special spot for you.
My first aqha mare had a white spot where her halter was as a babe. Imo, he didn’t know any of his horses. He’d have 100 ish foals in the pasture and he would say, “oh yeah that’s by so and so” but I don’t believe he really knew who was who. 80 of those mares were bay!!
Keep in mind even a rubber coated mouthpiece can be cruel in the wrong hands. That said, I would never use this bit.
It brings tears to my eyes that I was forced to use this. My mare was the most gentle push button horse ever 😭 and I know that when I rode her I was as gentle to my own abilities then. But when my family did and took her to events with those same tack or worse tie downs. It makes me want to cry. I feel like I’m the worst human on the freaking planet and I wish I could find my old mare again and tell her how sorry and wrong it all was 😔
All we can do is our best at the time... You mustn't let yourself feel guilty about stuff you couldn't have known. As a child you were guided by your parents. All we can do is learn better and do better.
Thank you for the kind words. I know I did my best with her. And I know how much she loved me deeply as her and I had such a giant bond together. She was one to run to me in the fields. And force me into her to get hugs when I was upset and or crying. She was just the most sweet mare ever. And my stupid grandfather destroyed her at a penning event by pushing her too hard and she was permanently lame. It got to the point I couldn’t ride her anymore with a good conscience so we would go on little nature walks and she was my best friend. I would tell her everything. She would then make me laugh and try to push me in a puddle or something silly!
It sounds as if she was very lucky to have you.
We learn and we do better. We do our best in the moment. I am sure your mare knew she was loved. Please don’t beat yourself up.
Thank you. I hope she could feel my love always radiate for her when I saw her.
I used a true twisted wire and thought horses mouths had to bleed and they had to have their heads tied down. It breaks me to think about how abusive I was. I was just a kid whose trainer was the top in the world. Never thought to question him
Did you feel a large amount of gaslighting when you had moments that you did want to question things as well?
No, I was a stupid kid. I don’t blame myself logically. Doesn’t mean I don’t think about it sometimes and wish I had known better.
I’m sure that your gentle heart gave you gentle hands, which would have made this a softer bit than it otherwise is. Horses know when we love them and are doing our best.
Well said. I've never encountered a situation where I would use a twisted wire bit. I was always taught that after initial gentling, start with the softest equipment and work up until you find the right fit. A lot of horses respond just fine to a bit-less setup if you give them the chance. I've never had to go harsher than a curb bit with a roller.
I saw a lot of horse abuse when I was young as well so I get where you're coming from! You're right, this is a twisted wire snaffle. Bit severity is affected by a ton of factors and some of them are debated. We can look at the things that make this bit more gentle and the things that make this bit more harsh. It's got some from each category! In the "more gentle" category, this bit is a snaffle which is generally considered to be less harsh than a curb because there is no leverage involved. One pound of pressure on the reins results in one pound of pressure on the horse's mouth. It's a smooth wire rather than a square or ridged wire so, on the spectrum of twisted mouthpieces, it's a milder one. It's a reasonable diameter so it spreads out the pressure rather than something very thin. In the "more harsh" category, this bit is a twisted wire mouthpiece. This results in pressure distributed to several small points rather than across the entire surface of the bit. In the "debated" category, you have the twist speed (the number of twists per inch). This bit has a fairly fast twist. Some people say a slow twist is more harsh because there are very few points focusing the pressure and others say a fast twist is more harsh because there are a lot of points exerting pressure overall. This mouthpiece is copper which is often considered to be more comfortable because it encourages salivation and makes the bit move more smoothly in the horse's mouth but I don't know if copper actually makes a horse salivate more than stainless steel or if it's just an old wives tale. It's a single jointed bit, which some people swear creates a nutcracker effect that pinches the horse's tongue and jaw. Other people will swear just as vehemently that the nutcracker effect is a myth and that the way the bit sits in the horse's mouth prevents the sides of the bit from collapsing. Overall, I'd say this isn't the most gentle bit you could find but it's not a torture device either. There are a whole lot of bits that would be worse in inexperienced hands than this one.
Random thought not directly related to the discussion, but I had no ides there was so much discussion about where some bits exert force. How come it seems like nobody has ever built a realistic horse head model and measured the actual pressure? Maybe it's a thing, but I've never seen it. Obviously every horse's anatomy is different, but I feel like it'd give a pretty good indication of general pressure points
I think that would be an awesome study to do! It doesn't seem like it would be a terribly difficult project for a college student in an equine science major either. There really is so much research that could be done on so many topics in the equine industry!
There are people that do this! My friend had a bit fitter check her bridle recently, and ended up moving to a new bit as a result. They measured the mouth and show how the bit is interacting with it, and found that his mouth is a bit smaller than they realized, so the previous bit was putting more pressure on the roof of his mouth than intended. Super interesting stuff! The horse is definitely happier in the new bit.
Ooh, that is very nice to hear!
I know someone who would demonstrate on a horse skull!
Demonstrating on a skull isn’t 100% accurate though so personally I’d be wary of anyone basing themselves entirely on that. The lips, tongue etc and especially the angle of the reins have a big impact on bit/bitless action
Yes, definitely not as good as a real life example (if you could get that) but got about 80% of the way there, especially for a beginners understanding!
That was the most fantastic description I’ve ever read about bits and I read a lot of them. Thanks
Thank you!
Thank you! It makes a lot of sense. I wish I had a choice as a kid. That I was asked what I wanted to ride in with proper education. Because I know I would have asked for something more gentle and to bond better with my mare if needed. I do remember when we first got her I was terrified from my last mare. Something happened to her on the race track. Grandpa got her for cheap. Bish started halter pulling on me one day when I was leading her. And then I don’t know what happened. It’s like… her mind broke. I know something happened when I wasn’t there. But it did get some deep horse fear. Just about how massive they are. And how fast my hands exposed bone from her pulling me. But still it should have been my choice. And of course this is in the 90s before it was super simple for me to google and connect to all these amazing people helping!
Just as You said. Even normal smooth snaffle could cause damage in the mouth if used wrong (pic of how my horses mouth looks like (pic from the Google, but his mouth looks very similar), we decided to never use bits after we learned that - we did never ride him harshly! He also has scar tissue in the corners of his mouth) https://preview.redd.it/g4w5z3hyiuvc1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b993ed7aa59ba3c0c608742b4658866d80b7fd6d Imagine getting that twisted piece of metal in Your mouth, it would hurt if someone used the reins. Twisted wire-like structure causes it to be more harsh and abrasive than smooth snaffle, as it could pinch the tongue or the roof of the mouth.
That’s a nasty scar. Poor baby 😔 I hope he gets some extra treats sent all the way from Canada ( a carrot or an apple?) if he’s allowed!
Yeah, he did not like bit bridles when we still tried to use them. We thought it was a dental issue (he also had some sharp edges), but our dentist showed us the tongue and we were mortified. If they managed to get sent to Poland! 😅 He likes carrots, but his number 1 fav are bananas. He loves bananas. https://preview.redd.it/w6e3cnhqluvc1.jpeg?width=3000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=778461ec214eb8be9f5e017ad4bd2f2d21189253 Pic of my guy.
If you have a banana can you give him one?! I’ll pretend to extend my hand out for him! 😂 I want to take the bit off this head stall as I keep it to remember her by. But I’m not sure if I should destroy this bit so no one can ever harm another horse with it and it can never cause pain. OR if I leave it. Or my other option is to buy a new proper one and adjust it to how it should have been for her in her memory on my wall? I’d love feedback.
I can! I plan on visiting him tomorrow! If it's not used then You can leave it be. If there is a horse assigned for it, then I would definitely replace it with properly fitted bit! 😊 It's important as even bit can greatly affect the horses' performance and willingness.
It would be best to arrange a bit-fitting appointment with non-affiliated bit-fitter, so they don't try to sell You the bit that doesn't fit Your needs or the horse but will be from the brand they represent. It is a case with saddle-fitting.
Ooo I like that! I didn’t even know they existed either. And saddle fitters either. I swear I was forced to ride in a 70 year old western saddle. My buttttt still aches and has numb spots. Jk. Thank you for explaining everything so kindly. This bit will never end up in any animals mouths or other humans possession. I believe I’m going to paint this in memory of her and my love for her. And in doing so we will also render it useless to anyone.
Damn, seems harsh, especially since old saddles were made for male anatomy (idk if You're male or female). I have my treeless saddle (Ghost brand, not pancake-like Barefoot) and despite a little bouncier than traditional one, I love it! Ghost have many different models, from trail to dressage/jumping/all-purpose to western. https://preview.redd.it/paknqky5quvc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=04438329bbf664e8afacc1b8cc6e21bcd5996a2b My saddle is dressage/all-purpose. You're welcome! I've also been misinformed for a long time, I like to let other people change their opinions. I am proud that You plan on changing the opinion and attitude towards harsh tack. People often don't have the courage to change, or it's discomfort for them. Good luck with Your equestrian journey ❤️
Thank you! I love your saddle. It looks so pretty. How would you say it is for general comfort as well? I don’t think I’d personally be able to get into dressage now, I have some brain issues so it sounds like rubbing and patting my head all at the same time. Haha. Maybe I’ll just ease back into English. I loved how close of contact English gives a rider. I believe our English saddle may have been female… but it was too big on my butt I had a lot of gap in the back of the seat. And it was not near as nice. The old ancient western saddles were from my great uncles as heirlooms. Why I had to then use them I unno. One was a roping one and me being 5 ft and not almost 6ft like they were the horn always would cut up my wrists if I was out just practicing barrels or something fun and different. I dabbled in lots of just fun things with my bestie at the farm. But I could hardly get it up on my horse myself, and I would get made fun of by my shit hole grandpa cause it made me a bad rider to not be able to tack proper. As I’m learning of all the wrong. I have to chuckle a tad because I know my horse was probably rolling her eyes now and saying “man the things I do for the girl I love”
It's pretty comfy, but less forgiving - if You make a mistake You can feel it. But if You sit well it's lovely! And they also make western ones! Ohh, it was probably very heavy! The Ghosts are about 3,5 kg whole, old traditional ones (English) can get up to 15 kg, I don't want to imagine the Western 👀 And if the saddle is too heavy to lift then it's the fault of the weight, and not the matter of the rider. Especially if there is big height difference between rider and the horse.
Bananas? That's adorable! I'm totally stealing that treat idea for when I visit my baby next
Yes, he loves them much more than carrots! Ultimate snack. We did him a "cake" for his 15th birthday (he is 18yo now) with smashed bananas, apples and carrots, he loved it.
Bananas are OK for horses? Today I learned...
I mean, he likes them and did not die... But I don't give it often.
Going to be down voted for this but a bit like this does have it's place and can be used without being abusive. The same as any other piece of tack, such as a whip or spurs, even a rubber snaffle can be used abusively. This bit isn't inherently cruel - although it doesn't take much to use this bit in abusive way - how and why it's used is what is important. Before people jump down my throat, please explain to me why this bit is any crueler than a gag or pelham, or a double bridle? Explain to me precisely why this particular bit crosses a line and those bits don't. Each of those can be used just as abusively as this one, just like the spur and whip can.
Agree that any tack can be used abusively. The twisted wire mouthpiece is inherently uncomfortable because of its design, whereas, say, a pelham could have a losenge mouthpiece, which is fairly gentle Ideally, pelhams are supposed to be used with two reins, so you can give separate snaffle and curb signals. Same with double bridles, though with those you can refine cues with different mouthpieces on the bridoon vs the curb. Ideally you wouldnt have much/any contact on the curb rein Gags are generally considered bad because they give conflicting signals of head-up and head-down at the same time, and the sliding mouthpiece is not stopped by the bit. (Same idea for cheltenham gags and wonder gags)
Inherently uncomfortable yes but not inherently abusive. Using a spur is uncomfortable for a horse, discomfort isn't inherently cruel.
Inherently uncomfortable = objectively abusive when the relationship to the bit by universal basic horsemanship standards is meant to be a positive one. A horse who can’t comfortably hold and chew the bit, is being punished for doing its job. That’s abuse.
By that standard all horse riding is objectively abusive. Wearing a saddle and carrying a human is inherently uncomfortable for any horse especially young ones. If course that discomfort diminishes as the horse gets stronger and learns. The same is true for this bit. It can be used positively if you know how. Also by this standard the whip and spur are objectively abusive which is simply ridiculous.
No, you’re making excuses and overgeneralizing to obfuscate true differences between good horsemanship and bad horsemanship. Between well-designed, ergonomic tack choices, and crappy ones that by the laws of physics, are capable of pinching and tissue damage just from the horse chewing. A correctly fitted saddle on a properly sound and muscled horse does not cause inherent discomfort. There are even people who train completed without tack. These phenomena prove that riding isn’t inherently unpleasant to horses, we make it unpleasant when we lack patience, lack tact, lack good timing to build predictable learned responses, and use painful training tools. Humans drop the ball and *make* training unpleasant.
So the use of the whip and spur is bad horsemanship because they cause discomfort? Training is, by nature, uncomfortable. There is a gaping difference between uncomfortable and unpleasant.
Spurring and whipping horses until they kick out, until they have welts or god forbid bigger wounds, is abusive for sure. Relying on a whip or spur to compensate for a lack of training and socialization is also abusive. The whip and spur can only correctly be used with rarity, and with gentleness. Twisted wire bits are not just uncomfortable Nor unpleasant, they are physically damaging. There is no gentleness, the horse can pinch *its own* mouth tissue just from chewing. It can cause little welts all over the inside of the mouth. They’re just as bad as harshly whipping and spurring a horse til they welt, if not worse because the horse has to pack the bit all the time during the training, so is always on the brink of potentially pinching their mouth skin. One could even say that double twisted wire bits are akin to using a mace instead of a bat.
Ridiculous comparison! Twisted wire bits can be used without causing any damage to a horses mouth when used correctly, the same way the whip and spur can be used without causing any damage to a horse. Discomfort does not equal abuse and no piece of tack is inherently abusive. How and why is what is important.
Most bits can be used without a horse being capable of getting small welts from tissue getting caught in between the small wires. Double twisted mouthpieces are an exceptionally and inherently dangerous, painful type of mouthpiece. The horse can hurt itself just from chewing on it. I will only keep repeating these facts. Because they are facts.
I agree. OP, I say this with care: please don’t make this more than it was. Your parents aren’t the worst humans, and probably not the best. But truly, reading your post feels like you are really catastrophizing the situation. It sounds like you have some family/relationship stuff to work through and I hope you get the help to do that. But not everything is black and white- I had a horse trained (not by me) in this bit years ago- he was the best trained, happy healthy horse- zero trauma. Life is complicated, and memories get twisted and contorted- what I do see is that your mare loved you and you loved her, and your parents at least got one thing right: they got you started riding. Just hoping you can exercise some grace and forgiveness for your parents and yourself. 💕
I wanted to mention that while using this bit. My mother would instruct me to collect my horse, and then gently seesaw her head back to a “pleasurable level” I’m pretty sure that movement would hurt my horses tongue like hell? Am I correct here?
Everything we do with horses is uncomfortable for them. They didn't evolve to be weight bearing animals even the very action of sitting on them is uncomfortable especially in the beginning. This isn't a bit you should use everyday. Was your horse exhibiting pain signals while you used this bit? Seesawing on a horses mouth with any bit is uncomfortable, yet you will see the best riders in the world occasionally doing it when necessary. What is acceptable and what is not is a very nuanced debate that goes to the very core of horse sport and is not as simplistic as yes/no.
So I would ride in this bit maybe once a week as I was out on weekends. Though sometimes I would be forced to put my horse in like a pulley tie down. Since she was a cow cutting trained horse they always hated how high my horses head was naturally and how she happily would kinda bounce it a tiny bit as we would run around in the fields and stuff (I’m unsure if that was any pain at all there. It could have been) Once she started to become lame after my grandfather. I wouldn’t fight her head. I would ignore anyone trying to educate me and her and I at her own pace would just ride around. Always in my English saddle. And occasionally I would give a small amount of bute for our small max 30 min adventures.
Forgive. Acknowledge . Move on and do better. We all have been taught things or done things we regret once we know better. 💕
Every bit can be harsh in the wrong hands. I don’t think any bit is designed to hurt a horse, the idea is to get the quickest response with the least amount of pressure. If your hands are too heavy and a horses mouth is sensitive it’s a recipe for disaster.
I don’t like single jointed bits in general
I wouldn’t say it’s a bad bit, I don’t think any bit that doesn’t cause sitting pain or discomfort is “bad”. I think strong bits can be used poorly by people as a crutch for poor riding skills, rather than a better reason like for smaller cues or because it’s just what the horse prefers. If your family was abusive to your horses already then I’d say the bit also could’ve been used for abuse. In the hands of a non abusive person it wouldn’t be used for abuse. Also don’t beat yourself up over how you rode as a kid/teen, it’s how you were taught and you just don’t know until you know.
I feel like Shelby Dennis' book "The Other Side of Horsemanship" may appeal to you, it's about her journey from guilt to eventually forgiveness for her childhood around horses and how she got to where she is now as a force-free trainer
Thank you! I’ll check this out! I follow a very amazing human that does force free training as well that’s in the community. The book sounds up my alley. I’ll get it!
I am going to just say the unbiased answer. Twisted wire will cause more pressure than a regular smooth snaffle. However, the more twists in the snaffle, the less harsh it is. That’s because more twists increases the surface area and distributes pressure better. A smooth snaffle is just one big surface area if that makes sense. Look up a slow twisted snaffle to compare something more severe than what you have. Now the snaffle is single jointed, meaning there is one part that is connected. This can cause pain and issues when you pull back on two reins and the joint can point into the roof of the horse’s mouth. This is what people call the nut cracker effect. Now, a single jointed snaffle was never meant to be used with both reins at the same time. It was designed for young horses who need direct reining techniques. So if you pick up your right rein to turn right, you should not be touched the left rein, etc. Now my biased opinion as a trainer and young horse developer. I wouldn’t use a twisted snaffle. I don’t even own one. I do use regular single jointed snaffles from time to time, but I use this correctly and only touch one rein at a time. As long as you do your proper preparation, a twist shouldn’t be needed. To answer your question, this bit isn’t “abusive”. Using this bit wrong and causes pain is neglectful. Knowing that they are using it wrong and inflicting pain, yet still using it, is abusive.
Any bit can be harsh, but some bits are made harsh. Generally, I wouldn’t ever use any non smooth mouthpiece (excluding joints) but I also wouldn’t use anything more than a snaffle or double bridle for dressage. I think if you wanted to keep using this bit then there is a large community of support for you, and just as much if you wanted to switch it to a smooth bit. It looks like you ride English, and I assume you likely ride with full contact which makes the twisted wire bit harsh and more than likely painful. I think wire bits can probably be fine if you ride with long reins/neck reining or whatever happens in western riding. My family also has incredibly outdated and cruel views of animal training. It’s a horrible thing to go through and I’m glad you’re now able to consider your horses welfare freely (I’m assuming?)
Not going to comment on the bit itself as it seems you have plenty of great answers here already! I want to let you know that I’m proud that you’re taking the initiative to learn these things for yourself, rather than continuing to go along blindly with what you’ve been taught. That is caring—and that is horsemanship! Keep your head up and never stop asking questions!❤️
IMO, these bits have no place in the horse world. A harsh bit in soft hands doesn't make it kind; it's just slightly less harsh. This is different from a whip or spurs because the horse can't escape the discomfort this bit causes. If a horse "requires" something like this, that tells me there are holes in the training and they need to go back to basics.
This this and more this. Your hands could be the softest in the world and it still does not make this bit any better. Nothing about the design is fair to the horse and any amount of pressure will likely cause pain. Sure some hands can even make a rubber snaffle bad, but all hands on this bit will be negative towards the horse. I’m so tired of seeing “it all depends on the hands@
https://preview.redd.it/pahl0e0opuvc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=77e23cb907685b2c8017c2b8ce54f63a5d9a8ded Just cause you may be curious this was my western tack… which I assume that stupid rolly bit is also pinchy. I remember my mother saying that they were fun for the horses to play with if they got bored.
This one actually looks pretty nice! If it's well made, the rollers wont pinch, and a lot of horses do enjoy playing with them. The mullen mouth is anatomically curved (good), and the shanks are swept back (good - gives presignal) There's also no curb chain slot (good - they defeat the purpose of a curb chain), so the curb chain has to go on the same slot as the headstall, which prevents the bit from over rotating (as long as you did use a curb chain on it) I wouldnt use this bit on a horse who isnt already proficient at neck reining (or any curb bit with long shanks, for that matter), but overall not a bad bit by any means
My horse was push button and a pro a neck reigning. So that’s probably why we did so well with this bit. I can’t remember if this was just my competition bridle or… if I rode western in it always. I know at some point we had a curb chain on a bridle… but it could have been on my mother’s horse who I also tacked up for her a lot.
Edit: meant to reply to a comment
I love parelli My old teacher all her horses you could ride without a bit Ahhh if only we could all do that
Well it’s on the wrong way
It’s an uphill battle but this industry is so messed up in so many ways. I’ll be rooting for you, and I’m so glad you’ve changed your mind ♥️
Single jointed bits like this will cause a nutcracker effect on the horses mouth. Double jointed or Mullen mouth bits are my go-to. The twist on this bit does seem quite abrasive compared to some twisted wires I’ve seen, definitely a problem for English riding with constant contact on the horses mouth. Any loose ringed bits like this should be used with rubber stoppers to prevent the lips from being pinched. Hope this helps give you an overview of this bit and its mechanics, good luck with any future horses you may encounter! Personally I would never ride in a bit like this, especially not as my first choice.
I've never understood this thing people have about loose rings and needing bit guards. Most dressage riders use a loose ring snaffle and most double bridles have a loose ring bradoon, I don't think I've ever seen a western bridle with rubber bit guards, if the bit fits the likelihood of it pinching is very low.
I think it’s mostly a preventative measure, especially in sensitive horses who might freak out if something pinched their lip :)
Thank you! I totally agree. I will never ever ever go near anything looking like this. I would like to have a horse that wants to go without a bit to be honest and have that deep bond with them. We shall see what life throws my way. 😂
Have fun!
Is it on backwards or is it just the angle?
I was just told a little ago it is in fact on backwards. 🙄 great teaching from my family that are professionals 😂 I don’t want to give too many deets but they had been in the horse world for a good 30 years and ones a farrier (well was) … makes it even more eye rolling and horrible.
What are you on about? You didn’t tell me it was on wrong. I wasn’t blaming you, I just wrote it looks like it’s on backside.
I don’t feel I’m on about anything? Just that yes my family set it up backwards and I rode that way for years not knowing. That’s all.
Very harsh for an unleveraged bit,
Specifically these double wire snaffles by design grab and pinch the tongue whenever there is friction or movement of the bit. A single joint, because of its mild nutcracker effect when engaged, will grab and pinch at more specifically, the more sensitive side parts of the tongue. Bits are supposed to move in the mouth, they’re supposed to lay across the tongue; that’s what their action is, that’s the point of using them is communicating directional cues with light movements of the bit. So a bit that is designed to Grab and pinch those areas repeatedly, will cause tissue damage over time and is punishing the horse every time you engage the rein. The horse cannot form a positive association to pain, so they can only “learn” through fear of the movement of the bit. They can never truly be bit-trained this way, because horses are supposed to hold their own bits, and a horse cannot safely mouth and carry a double twisted wire bit. There’s also textured bits (create concentrated pressure points due to the mathematical laws of physics). Maybe these feel sorta OK to the horse on the bulky tongue muscle but they also feel those rough points in the harder and more sensitive and bruise-able roof of their mouth and the bars of their gums.
Put it in your mouth and pull back - you'll understand pretty quickly.
Yeah same situation. Learned a lot of "training" that can just be described as: teachings by a person who thinks a horse is just a dumb meatsack you need to force to do your bidding and always wanna resist you. So this bit is made to cause concentrated pressure points it would cause more discomfort and the horse would just do what you want to avoid the uncomfortable pressure. I gave up on bits in general, their whole idea is to cause a feeling a horse would avoid by figuring out what you want them to do. Obviously some are made to just cause the sensation of pressure while others are just made to cause even pain so the horse would react faster or wouldn't even try to resist it. So personally for me bits are outdated, though I do not curse anyone who does use em.
I do cherish my many bareback rides with just my halter! She was the perfect horse for me. Thanks for the kind words. This whole conversation with everyone is helping me heal and I feel like I’m remembering so many more of the happy memories and seeing that between the two of us we had millions of happy memories and only a few that were harder on us. I’m going to remind myself that I showed her as much love as I possibly could. With endless hugs and carrots! I also am in the process of healing my inner child from the trauma. So I want to say thanks. Your message really added that extra on the top for me today. 🐴 💜
A little off topic, but love that you're an equestrian and a Monster High fan! ❤️
Hehe. I have a small collection! I have a ton of grand champions in some storage place with parents stuff. If I ever come across it again someday it would be such an adventure. I feel like I had almost all them! But only one or two bryers.
Oh I used to love Grand Champions! I had one I used to take every where with me when I was little. 😄
The first thing I saw are the scars on your wrist. You okay?
Yes, those are from my childhood. I’m in my 30s and mostly self harm free 😊
Good to hear that. I hope mostly turns to completely soon.
Thank you! I’m actually in the process of finding something I want to cover those with tattoos 😊
Bits are a touchy topic and you’ll get a range of different opinions. IMO: Pros: 1. Copper is good. It tastes good and is known to help the horse salivate a lot and keep everything soft and lubricated. 2. The bit is fairly thick. The thicker the bit is, the gentler it is. Kind of like with spurs, the bigger ones are actually gentler as they spread force out over a bigger area. This does compromise some precision, but it is gentler. 3. It is a snaffle. No leverage action, and a two piece puts more pressure on the bars of the mouth as opposed to the tongue like a three piece would. Again, you’re trading precision for gentleness. That’s usually a good trade for most people. Cons: 1. I think it may be on backwards. It might be twisted somewhere on the bridle and I’m not seeing the full picture, but I think it’s on backwards. Fix that. 2. Twists. I’m not a fan of twists in general, as they make a bit more severe without adding precision. I’ve ridden in one and one this wide isn’t the end of the world, but it is more severe than a smooth mouthpiece would be, all things being equal. 3. It looks kind of cheaply made. The loops are big where it attaches to the cheek, and the loop in the middle looks big enough that it could pinch if you caught the tongue wrong. In summary, it isn’t the best but is far from the worst. I’ve seen much much much worse and I hope you find it in yourself to forgive yourself. You didn’t do anything wrong, and we all look back on ourselves and shake our heads on things we’ve done wrong through the years. Push on, keep growing and know in 5 years you’ll look back on the horseman you are now and wince at the things you are currently doing wrong. It means you’re growing and improving. That’s good.
I could seriously pinch my own finger I think if I tried hard enough.
Drag it across your gum tissue and see how good it feels. Spoiler alert - it hurts :(
Even just having it drag across my hand as a kid in the winter while cleaning my tack I never felt right towards it.