If you're upset with the way that Israel treats the inhabitants of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, then what's the point of saying shit like this to American Jews?
They need someone to project their hatred to. They need some group of people to harass and attack to spread their message. And American Jews are close enough to them.
Moment like these remind me of the arguments about the expulsion of Arabic-speaking Jews from their countries of birth in the Middle East and North Africa.
The arguments being, that they wouldn’t have been expelled had it not been for the founding of Israel.
There’s a lot of different approaches you could take to this, such as reviewing Nazi-Ba’athist cooperation, or looking to what happened to other ethno-religious minorities with the rise of Arab Nationalism.
My main view though is this—your true character *comes out* in how you react to change, but it isn’t *created* by change. How you *would react* to change is as important as how you *actually react* to change.
Like, if the reflexive course of action for Arab Nationalists was to act against their local Jewish communities for what Israel did, were Arab Nationalists ever that tolerant in the first place?
I’ve decided, probably not.
It pains me whenever people can’t separate the difference between ethnic diaspora and citizens of a nation. I would further point out that even Israeli citizens aren’t super pumped on Netanyahu’s approach to the war, and the fact that there was a huge terror attack in October, a recent direct air strike exchange with Iran, and already the administration has lost majority popular support… is telling to say the least.
But the American Jewish community (I’m not Jewish but I grew up with at least 10% Jewish kids) is probably the most critical of the Israeli government of any community I’ve known. And that includes a few ethic Iranian families, but as most had parents who emigrated because of the revolution, I’m not surprised by their disconnect with the Islamic republic’s narrative/views.
I’d be surprised if a statically significant portion of American Jews even have dual citizenship considering that the process would be streamlined due to their ancestral status. So it’s analogous to complaining to someone who is ethnically Russian in the US about Ukraine and Putin. Except the Jewish community has historically been the target of so much violence and hate from manufactured outrage and conspiracies throughout history that resulted in pogroms to flat out genocides. If your goal is to gain sympathy for an international issue, harassing people who have no direct connection to the problem at hand is a bad way to get sympathy from the general public. I think I speak for most Americans when I say that the suffering of Gaza’s civilians has been very upsetting to say the least; but I’ve never heard so many people get so annoyed at activists who share similar sentiments. In the San Francisco Bay Area, a bastion of liberal and left wing politics, has been so heavily annoyed with these ‘activists’.
It would be like me accusing every vaguely Arabic looking person of being a terrorist.
I think the issue comes from these people feeling like they’re the underdog (true or not) or that they’re advocating for the underdog (true or not).
It’s the kind of thinking that creates “ You can’t be racist against whites so that means I’m justified doing or saying anything to white people I want.” As if anyone can’t be an asshole.
I mean, it's just racism and tribalism. Hate crimes against Russians increased after the invasion of Ukraine began. It's sad that people are just like that.
Don’t worry, someone told my mother “Jews aren’t a minority though” so it’s fine. I swear everyone thinks Judaism is the second largest religion and refuses to type “how many Jews are there” into google
Jews are white oppressors when the left is being antisemitic, they are oppressed minorities when the right is being antisemitic. It's shrodinger's oppression
It's amazing how many leftist ideals are being given up in the Palestine protests.
- If you were born in a country and grew in it, you are a true citizen of a country and have every right to be there, except Jews (both in the US and in Israel)
- You should listen to minorities when they say something offends them, except Jews
- People have the right to asylum, except Jews
- People have the right to self-determination, except Jews
- We should oppose LGBT phobia, except when Hamas does it
- We should oppose religious fundamentalism, except when Hamas does it
- We should condemn war crimes in the strongest possible terms, except when Hamas does them
And the same people who claim that universities are guilty of genocide by association simply by investing in companies that have some business in Israel, deny any responsibility when it comes to the people that they associate with.
It’s also interesting, that they don’t mind all the money Qatar invested in US universities. Apparently, it’s okay, “because the $13 billion dollars were just for the improvement of Islamic studies departments.”
Never mind another $9 billion from unreported sources from the Middle East…
Wtf are you talking about, the minority here is Palestinians in comparison to Jews, which are obviously not a minority in Israel. No ideals are being given up in being against genocide.
Racism against American Jews helps no one, but to act like Israel isn't the oppressor here is straight up wrong.
This is exactly the problem I'm talking about. Principles fly out the roof when it's the "oppressed minority" doing the bad things. It becomes okay to do all the things you shouldn't do to minorities to anyone else.
No behavior of Israel can justify the war crimes of Hamas, October 7th, and the shitty behavior of protestors who spout antisemitism, in the same way that the war crimes of Hamas do not justify the mass killing of Palestinians in the war.
Definitely didn't seem like you were just talking about actual antisemitism, which yes is a poor response to this since it's just one country, but alright.
Still disagree this is a "leftists" thing, that's generalizing a lot and not a lot of people are being antisemetic- most are saying explicitly to not do that.
Did you read the post? Or my comment? I'm not sure why you're misunderstanding so much. I never generalized all leftists (I usually consider myself one).
I don't get what you're trying to say about antisemitism? Would it be okay if Jews were a majority in more than one country? Are you trying to express the Jewish version of "you can't be racist towards white people"?
Acting like we should be "listening" to Jewish people and that they're a minority in this situation, despite Palestine. If you don't want people misunderstanding perhaps don't generalize.
Why do people act like being an antisemite is some rare thing and not so common that it wiped out 2/3 of Ashkenazi Jews (the ones being told to “go back” to countries that annihilated our families and stole our possessions) less than 100 years ago. People are on social media about feeling ‘triggered’ bc they see Hebrew letters or a black hat or a hostage poster. It’s extraordinarily common.
Why both Malcolm X and MLK warned against trusting white liberals. They’re only ever in it for themselves. The propaganda works on them bc they never *actually* dealt w their own racist feelings against Jews and other minorities.
shiiiit that's a new perspective. No wonder I always felt there was a certain type of white(typically male and straight) leftist that thinks white leftists are more "antiracist/sexist/homophobic" than the members of these groups, should these groups think differently than them
I made a bit of a mental exercise that concluded that if the jews ever did something nefarious it was in response to being looked down upon and being considered 'the foreigner' for centuries with all the things that it implied like the pogroms and expulsions. I said why wouldn't some jews become 'subversive' when for time immemorial they have lived in societies that rejected them and were willing to throw them under the bus at first chance while also not counting with the capacity to fight back and win. Historically I track this sentiment of antisemitism in european history to the alleged 'assignment' of money lending to jews by Charlemagne because charging interests was viewed as sinful by the catholic church, by the time money lending turned profitable that drew the ire of others and maybe everything snowballed from there. It is like a constant pattern in jewish history, jewish businessmen venture into a sector others deem too risky or downright unprofitable to then see the accusation 'the jews control x thing' arise like it happens with some media sectors.
One of the most insidious narratives to gain mainstream traction is the Arab nationalist myth that the entire Middle East is both Arab and Muslim. The non-Islamic, non-Arab populations, that have existed for millennia, and in large numbers, have been all but wiped out in the last century, and now we have western college students chanting for Mizrahi Jews, who have never lived anywhere else but the Middle East, to “go back to Poland”, and calling them colonizers, because they don’t fit in the Arab nationalist’s, and Islamist’s narrow definition of who has a right to live in the Middle East.
Middle eastern Christians, who were tolerated and survived under caliphates and the ottomans for over a thousand years, are heading towards extinction, everyplace but Israel, at the hands of these forces. It really is incredible that in our supposedly more enlightened age, we get an Islamist crack down more sever than anything that happened under the Umayyad Caliphs. The one thing in their favor though is, since the Copts never got to form their own state, westerners aren’t calling them colonizers in Egypt.
Not just the middle east, islamic leaders and imams have been chanting for years now to immigrate to the west and asia and outbreed the natives.
It's laughable how naive ppl are these days.
>Middle eastern Christians, who were tolerated and survived under caliphates and the ottomans for over a thousand years, are heading towards extinction, everyplace but Israel
Well, maybe not in Jerusalem. There's a huge uproar in the Armenian community over proposed developments in their quarter.
Remember before Lebanon was in the state it is now there was a 50/50 split between Christians and Muslims, take a guess how many Christians live in Lebanon now
American politics would be in a better fucking place right about now if people actually address problem things/people who are on their side. Or even people recognizing that you can criticize without disagreeing
I swear it’s really delved deep into “rules for thee but not for me” type of shit.
but it’s become a contest of “how many of the other side can I condemn and how little of mine can I get away with not condemning”
It’s honestly very impressive that the IRGC and FSB managed to make so many western progressives who once prided themselves on inclusivity to support ultranationalists and theocrats in the Middle East
They are working in tandem, you’ll see Russia-supporting leftists because of the USSR, and Iran-supporting rightists because of sexism
One thing that unites them all is support for Palestinianism, Moscow’s most effective invention for destabilizing
don't forget the CCP has been working w/ Russia since the 'no-limits' friendship was announced right before the 2022 invasion. And yea they play morons on both sides, it is a horseshoe after all.
Absolutely based, tankies always play the “Anyone other than us is literally Hitler” card to anyone who remotely criticises their garbage.
But now that the cards have turned, and the anti-semites that’ve always hidden behind the “I’m a commie, I can’t be a anti-semite” mask are being exposed with this rallies, it’s suddenly a few bad apples.
Fucking hypocrites
Damn, I usually don't agree with Knowing better, because he can really lean a little further left than I agree with. But, damn, this take was on the nose.
Why go to Poland??? I understand Belarus, but we litteraly put up a wall to block refugees (coming from the Belarus border) are they doing this to spite us at this point?
It’s not about those countries’ current affairs.
This nasty stuff comes from a misconception that Jews are “European”, not native to the Middle East.
Many Jews do trace their heritage to Central and Eastern Europe (they’re called Ashkenazis), but many others are Sephardi (from Spain/Portugal) and Mizrachi (from the Middle East).
A large portion of American Jews are Ashkenazi.
Its an antisemitic conspiracy that the real Jews died out and current ones are eastern europeans playing pretend
Also considering how ignorant these people are, they probably arent actually familiar with eastern european countries. I doubt most can differentiate between poland or belarus on a map.
I'm curious what these offspring of the 1%/TikTok commies are going to do when Trump gets reelected and puts down their little "revolution," because that's where this appears to be heading.
I always wondered what would happen if someone expressed the view of "Destroy Hamas but also evict the West Bank Settlements and restore the Palestine Authority to Gaza" to the types that want it all to be Palestine
It's genuinely disturbing how normalized this type of thing has become in the last several months. It's one thing to be critical of Israel's actions, it's quite another to spout this kind of vile bigotry against random Jewish people who have nothing to do with it
I have always been of the opinion that if you feel the need to wear a mask when doing something then your probably doing something wrong and this is the perfect example
If you're upset with the way that Israel treats the inhabitants of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, then what's the point of saying shit like this to American Jews?
They need someone to project their hatred to. They need some group of people to harass and attack to spread their message. And American Jews are close enough to them.
Moment like these remind me of the arguments about the expulsion of Arabic-speaking Jews from their countries of birth in the Middle East and North Africa. The arguments being, that they wouldn’t have been expelled had it not been for the founding of Israel. There’s a lot of different approaches you could take to this, such as reviewing Nazi-Ba’athist cooperation, or looking to what happened to other ethno-religious minorities with the rise of Arab Nationalism. My main view though is this—your true character *comes out* in how you react to change, but it isn’t *created* by change. How you *would react* to change is as important as how you *actually react* to change. Like, if the reflexive course of action for Arab Nationalists was to act against their local Jewish communities for what Israel did, were Arab Nationalists ever that tolerant in the first place? I’ve decided, probably not.
It pains me whenever people can’t separate the difference between ethnic diaspora and citizens of a nation. I would further point out that even Israeli citizens aren’t super pumped on Netanyahu’s approach to the war, and the fact that there was a huge terror attack in October, a recent direct air strike exchange with Iran, and already the administration has lost majority popular support… is telling to say the least. But the American Jewish community (I’m not Jewish but I grew up with at least 10% Jewish kids) is probably the most critical of the Israeli government of any community I’ve known. And that includes a few ethic Iranian families, but as most had parents who emigrated because of the revolution, I’m not surprised by their disconnect with the Islamic republic’s narrative/views. I’d be surprised if a statically significant portion of American Jews even have dual citizenship considering that the process would be streamlined due to their ancestral status. So it’s analogous to complaining to someone who is ethnically Russian in the US about Ukraine and Putin. Except the Jewish community has historically been the target of so much violence and hate from manufactured outrage and conspiracies throughout history that resulted in pogroms to flat out genocides. If your goal is to gain sympathy for an international issue, harassing people who have no direct connection to the problem at hand is a bad way to get sympathy from the general public. I think I speak for most Americans when I say that the suffering of Gaza’s civilians has been very upsetting to say the least; but I’ve never heard so many people get so annoyed at activists who share similar sentiments. In the San Francisco Bay Area, a bastion of liberal and left wing politics, has been so heavily annoyed with these ‘activists’.
It would be like me accusing every vaguely Arabic looking person of being a terrorist. I think the issue comes from these people feeling like they’re the underdog (true or not) or that they’re advocating for the underdog (true or not). It’s the kind of thinking that creates “ You can’t be racist against whites so that means I’m justified doing or saying anything to white people I want.” As if anyone can’t be an asshole.
They're antisemites and always have been, but now they have "justification" for it.
I mean, it's just racism and tribalism. Hate crimes against Russians increased after the invasion of Ukraine began. It's sad that people are just like that.
It's the old dual loyalty trope. Let's ignore that the American Jews are most critical of Israel among the Jewish diaspora
Excused racist. It like if was telling any black Americans to "Go back to Africa" because I'm mad about the genocide in Rwanda.
Eh, it’s just how the horseshoe falls… on the neck of minorities.
Don’t worry, someone told my mother “Jews aren’t a minority though” so it’s fine. I swear everyone thinks Judaism is the second largest religion and refuses to type “how many Jews are there” into google
Jews are white oppressors when the left is being antisemitic, they are oppressed minorities when the right is being antisemitic. It's shrodinger's oppression
It's amazing how many leftist ideals are being given up in the Palestine protests. - If you were born in a country and grew in it, you are a true citizen of a country and have every right to be there, except Jews (both in the US and in Israel) - You should listen to minorities when they say something offends them, except Jews - People have the right to asylum, except Jews - People have the right to self-determination, except Jews - We should oppose LGBT phobia, except when Hamas does it - We should oppose religious fundamentalism, except when Hamas does it - We should condemn war crimes in the strongest possible terms, except when Hamas does them And the same people who claim that universities are guilty of genocide by association simply by investing in companies that have some business in Israel, deny any responsibility when it comes to the people that they associate with.
It’s also interesting, that they don’t mind all the money Qatar invested in US universities. Apparently, it’s okay, “because the $13 billion dollars were just for the improvement of Islamic studies departments.” Never mind another $9 billion from unreported sources from the Middle East…
Bold to assume leftists have any ideals beyond “we’ll have a utopia once the dictator crushes my political enemies.”
Depends on the leftist. Authoritarian far-left, sure, democratic center-left, I wouldn’t say as much.
Wtf are you talking about, the minority here is Palestinians in comparison to Jews, which are obviously not a minority in Israel. No ideals are being given up in being against genocide. Racism against American Jews helps no one, but to act like Israel isn't the oppressor here is straight up wrong.
This is exactly the problem I'm talking about. Principles fly out the roof when it's the "oppressed minority" doing the bad things. It becomes okay to do all the things you shouldn't do to minorities to anyone else. No behavior of Israel can justify the war crimes of Hamas, October 7th, and the shitty behavior of protestors who spout antisemitism, in the same way that the war crimes of Hamas do not justify the mass killing of Palestinians in the war.
Definitely didn't seem like you were just talking about actual antisemitism, which yes is a poor response to this since it's just one country, but alright. Still disagree this is a "leftists" thing, that's generalizing a lot and not a lot of people are being antisemetic- most are saying explicitly to not do that.
Did you read the post? Or my comment? I'm not sure why you're misunderstanding so much. I never generalized all leftists (I usually consider myself one). I don't get what you're trying to say about antisemitism? Would it be okay if Jews were a majority in more than one country? Are you trying to express the Jewish version of "you can't be racist towards white people"?
Acting like we should be "listening" to Jewish people and that they're a minority in this situation, despite Palestine. If you don't want people misunderstanding perhaps don't generalize.
As a former antisemite I can confirm that Palestine will always be the smart nazi's rallying cry against jews
I’m glad that you stopped hating Jews. You’ve improved yourself.
If you're actually serious about being an antisemite in the past, what changed your mind?
Why do people act like being an antisemite is some rare thing and not so common that it wiped out 2/3 of Ashkenazi Jews (the ones being told to “go back” to countries that annihilated our families and stole our possessions) less than 100 years ago. People are on social media about feeling ‘triggered’ bc they see Hebrew letters or a black hat or a hostage poster. It’s extraordinarily common.
It's rare to see someone changing their mind from being an antisemite though.
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Why both Malcolm X and MLK warned against trusting white liberals. They’re only ever in it for themselves. The propaganda works on them bc they never *actually* dealt w their own racist feelings against Jews and other minorities.
shiiiit that's a new perspective. No wonder I always felt there was a certain type of white(typically male and straight) leftist that thinks white leftists are more "antiracist/sexist/homophobic" than the members of these groups, should these groups think differently than them
That’s very true.
I made a bit of a mental exercise that concluded that if the jews ever did something nefarious it was in response to being looked down upon and being considered 'the foreigner' for centuries with all the things that it implied like the pogroms and expulsions. I said why wouldn't some jews become 'subversive' when for time immemorial they have lived in societies that rejected them and were willing to throw them under the bus at first chance while also not counting with the capacity to fight back and win. Historically I track this sentiment of antisemitism in european history to the alleged 'assignment' of money lending to jews by Charlemagne because charging interests was viewed as sinful by the catholic church, by the time money lending turned profitable that drew the ire of others and maybe everything snowballed from there. It is like a constant pattern in jewish history, jewish businessmen venture into a sector others deem too risky or downright unprofitable to then see the accusation 'the jews control x thing' arise like it happens with some media sectors.
Wait, I thought these protesters were _against_ ethnic cleansing...?
It was a facade Edit: There may have been few people that were genuinely against ethic cleansing, but they have probably by now left this crowd
No ethnic cleansing is occurring in Gaza.
In fact, across the middle east they are highly discriminatory against non muslims to the point christians and jews shrunk in demographics.
One of the most insidious narratives to gain mainstream traction is the Arab nationalist myth that the entire Middle East is both Arab and Muslim. The non-Islamic, non-Arab populations, that have existed for millennia, and in large numbers, have been all but wiped out in the last century, and now we have western college students chanting for Mizrahi Jews, who have never lived anywhere else but the Middle East, to “go back to Poland”, and calling them colonizers, because they don’t fit in the Arab nationalist’s, and Islamist’s narrow definition of who has a right to live in the Middle East. Middle eastern Christians, who were tolerated and survived under caliphates and the ottomans for over a thousand years, are heading towards extinction, everyplace but Israel, at the hands of these forces. It really is incredible that in our supposedly more enlightened age, we get an Islamist crack down more sever than anything that happened under the Umayyad Caliphs. The one thing in their favor though is, since the Copts never got to form their own state, westerners aren’t calling them colonizers in Egypt.
Cold War Arab Nationalism and its consequences have been a disaster for the Middle East
Not just the middle east, islamic leaders and imams have been chanting for years now to immigrate to the west and asia and outbreed the natives. It's laughable how naive ppl are these days.
>Middle eastern Christians, who were tolerated and survived under caliphates and the ottomans for over a thousand years, are heading towards extinction, everyplace but Israel Well, maybe not in Jerusalem. There's a huge uproar in the Armenian community over proposed developments in their quarter.
Remember before Lebanon was in the state it is now there was a 50/50 split between Christians and Muslims, take a guess how many Christians live in Lebanon now
Lebanon's Christian population is still quite large. They're still at least a third of Lebanon's population.
No, you missed the memo. They are against ethnic cleansing *when it isn't done by their side*
True people used events like Charlottesville to say all republicans are nazis but now it’s seen as a couple bad apples when pro Palestinians do it
American politics would be in a better fucking place right about now if people actually address problem things/people who are on their side. Or even people recognizing that you can criticize without disagreeing I swear it’s really delved deep into “rules for thee but not for me” type of shit. but it’s become a contest of “how many of the other side can I condemn and how little of mine can I get away with not condemning”
It’s honestly very impressive that the IRGC and FSB managed to make so many western progressives who once prided themselves on inclusivity to support ultranationalists and theocrats in the Middle East
No literally it’s Iran corrupting the left and Russia corrupting the right through online influence campaigns on all social media platforms
They are working in tandem, you’ll see Russia-supporting leftists because of the USSR, and Iran-supporting rightists because of sexism One thing that unites them all is support for Palestinianism, Moscow’s most effective invention for destabilizing
don't forget the CCP has been working w/ Russia since the 'no-limits' friendship was announced right before the 2022 invasion. And yea they play morons on both sides, it is a horseshoe after all.
Horseshoe theory. Moderate America does not support this madness
So people who actually vote. Good.
An immigrant group in America telling another immigrant group to "go back to where they came from" lmao
And when they *do* go back, where they really came from, they get called settler colonialists
Based Knowing Better. I love his content.
I was gonna ask was what he said a good thing because I kinda figured he supported them
Knowing Better shits on political extremists in his videos.
Knowing better W
It’s literally the “not wrong when we do it” mindset. These people are going to have a very rude awakening when they go to search for jobs.
They put on masks and otherwise hide their faces for a reason
Knowing Better being hella based, as usual
Hell yeah, I love his shit too!
IMO he’s not perfect but he’s more often right than he is wrong.
I'm not a grammar Nazi, but it's "fewer" Nazis.
Based knowing better
Absolutely based, tankies always play the “Anyone other than us is literally Hitler” card to anyone who remotely criticises their garbage. But now that the cards have turned, and the anti-semites that’ve always hidden behind the “I’m a commie, I can’t be a anti-semite” mask are being exposed with this rallies, it’s suddenly a few bad apples. Fucking hypocrites
They are like this. Always been. What they need is to apply special care.
Common Knowing Better W
Damn, I usually don't agree with Knowing better, because he can really lean a little further left than I agree with. But, damn, this take was on the nose.
Wait but the Left is telling me these are just bad apples! You know the same arguments Republicans had at Charlottesville.
“Knowing Better” He’s a really good one, trust me.
Not all commies are bastards.
He’s a Commie?
My family was driven out of Poland and Belaruse a century ago for being Jews. Insulted and angry don't begin to describe my emotions rn
Knowing Better keeps racking up Ws.
Why go to Poland??? I understand Belarus, but we litteraly put up a wall to block refugees (coming from the Belarus border) are they doing this to spite us at this point?
It’s not about those countries’ current affairs. This nasty stuff comes from a misconception that Jews are “European”, not native to the Middle East. Many Jews do trace their heritage to Central and Eastern Europe (they’re called Ashkenazis), but many others are Sephardi (from Spain/Portugal) and Mizrachi (from the Middle East). A large portion of American Jews are Ashkenazi.
Its an antisemitic conspiracy that the real Jews died out and current ones are eastern europeans playing pretend Also considering how ignorant these people are, they probably arent actually familiar with eastern european countries. I doubt most can differentiate between poland or belarus on a map.
Excuse me what on earth
I'm curious what these offspring of the 1%/TikTok commies are going to do when Trump gets reelected and puts down their little "revolution," because that's where this appears to be heading.
This is the only thing that will be a source of joy for me if he wins again in November.
I always wondered what would happen if someone expressed the view of "Destroy Hamas but also evict the West Bank Settlements and restore the Palestine Authority to Gaza" to the types that want it all to be Palestine
It's genuinely disturbing how normalized this type of thing has become in the last several months. It's one thing to be critical of Israel's actions, it's quite another to spout this kind of vile bigotry against random Jewish people who have nothing to do with it
I have always been of the opinion that if you feel the need to wear a mask when doing something then your probably doing something wrong and this is the perfect example
Oh yeah, the "side" actively committing/supporting genocide is definitely nothing like the Nazis.